Ghost-Related Refunds at Sephora? | Your Urban Legends 117 w/ Eteng Ettah
/We are joined by podcaster extraordinaire, Eteng Ettah, as we dive into urban legends submitted by you, our Conspiriters! From after-school haunted shenanigans, to a make-up stealing ghost (Sephora is EXPENSIVE), this episode has a little bit of something for everyone.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, elder abuse and manipulation, hanging, suicide, family death, weight discussion, mental health struggles, injury, car accidents, arson, and illness.
Guest
Eteng Ettah was raised by Nigerian immigrants and MTV. Based in NYC, she currently hosts Consider This For Comfort, where she breaks down why your favorite comfort TV shows are your favorite comfort TV shows.
She is a narrative and creative strategist with a deep love for storytelling and culture. With over a decade of experience, she’s helped nonprofits, media orgs, and brands bring their missions to life through smart strategy, compelling narratives, and audience-first communications. Whether she’s shaping a campaign, building meaningful partnerships, or weighing in on pop culture, Eteng’s work lives at the intersection of strategy, storytelling, and pop culture commentary. Her commentary and analysis have been featured across a range of platforms, including the BlackStar Film Festival, Scalawag Magazine, NPR Stateside, Free Speech TV, New York Amsterdam News, WGN-TV and more.
Housekeeping
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And we are joined this week by our friend and fellow podcaster, Eteng Ettah. Welcome to Spirits, and thank you so much for being here.
ETENG: Hello! Cheers! I'm so excited to be here.
JULIA: We have a fun episode for you to come on for. I love having guests on for our Urban Legends episodes, only because it's a really great way to kind of gauge someone's spookiness level.
ETENG: Hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Just depending on how they respond to the stories that we tell.
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So I'm very curious to see how you do.
ETENG: Yeah, yeah. It's— I'm a little bit of a scaredy cat, but I do think ghost stories have some of the best original storytelling, so I appreciate—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: —the story, and I'm also probably gonna be really scared, so I'm excited.
JULIA: The craftsmanship, that's how you know it's good, right?
ETENG: Yes.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: Yes, exactly.
AMANDA: Eteng, you're a storyteller, you're a journalist, you are a podcaster. Will you tell us a bit about the work that you do? And then I'm going to get curious about the, let's say, mythological tapestry that you grew up with. What kinds of stories were you being told? Were you telling? Let's get into it.
ETENG: Absolutely. So thanks again for having me. My name is Eteng Ettah. I'm currently the host of a pop culture TV lifestyle podcast called Consider This for Comfort. We have just premiered season four. So every episode a guest and I come on, we talk about our favorite comfort TV show, but also what it says about society and culture. So we've done everything from what Abbott Elementary says about the state of public education and how comedy is a really accessible way to be learning about social issues. We've talked about Sex and the City and what it's saying about modern dating and being single in New York City. So really excited about season four. We've got a good slate. We've got Heated Rivalry.
JULIA: Of course.
AMANDA: Let's go.
ETENG: I'm like one of the last people who watched it, but like that is on there. Stranger Things. We've got some throwbacks. We've got some presents. So very excited about that. And then in general, I'm a pop culture commentator, so I'm always curious and thinking about what are the ways that media and mainstream media, one, demonstrate what our society values, but also how it helps us imagine different worlds, considering there's a lot going on that we might want to change. And I think TV and pop culture, while very fun and silly, but also something to be taken seriously because it kind of shapes our imagination for what we feel like is possible for ourselves.
JULIA: Incredible. I love that. I am also like, "So is— are you doing The Pitt, too? I know you're doing Heated Rivalry Drive, are you doing The Pitt?"
ETENG: You know, I have a little bit of a personal vendetta against The Pitt.
JULIA: Oh, okay.
ETENG: I'm in a one-sided beef because I love Severance, and The Pitt and Severance went head-to-head for the Emmys and so—
JULIA: Oh, yeah.
ETENG: —the pit ended up winning a couple of awards that I was thinking Severance would get.
AMANDA: Right?
ETENG: I do love that The Pitt, the entire season is one day in an ER. I think that's—
JULIA: U-hmm.
ETENG: —brilliant. Very, very great. I love that. This season is all about July 4th and I'm like, "Oh, that's— I haven't started yet, but I can only imagine all the different ways people have injured themselves."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: But it's— I get the appeal. I get why— you know, I think they do a really good job of offering commentary about the healthcare system and insurance and all of that good stuff. So I appreciate what they're doing. And I'm like, Severance, like, I don't know. I feel a little bit of type of way.
JULIA: That's fair. Severance is great, too.
ETENG: It's just so weird. I'm like— I feel like we need more weird things.
JULIA: I feel you there. We love weird stuff here on the podcast, so—
AMANDA: So very much. And I'd love to know, like, what was your intro to this kind of stuff? Did you grow up hearing spooky stories?
ETENG: Yeah. So I grew up, born and raised Catholic, so went to Catholic school. And so when I think of mythology, I'm a huge Greek mythology person. The parallels are very obvious. We've got Olympus in the Underworld, You know, heaven and hell. And so grew up reading a lot of Greek mythology within my curriculum. And it makes sense, you know, they're very heavy handed on the, like, right and wrong and consequences and punishment. But what I really loved about it as a kid was— again, you know, I love good stories and so was always so epic. This hero is embarking on this journey. We don't know what's about to happen. And I think in comparison to the shows and stories that I was reading as a kid that are more for kids, you know, okay, everything's going to work out in the end. Whereas with Greek mythology, these stories are very layered and a lot of times, bad things would happen. Like, you could not predict where this was going. So really appreciated that. Huge on the Odyssey. There was a time where I could probably recite and act that whole thing out. Like—
JULIA: Wow.
ETENG: — we read it a lot.
JULIA: Dang.
ETENG: I mean, it's all up and through pop culture, which I really, really love.
JULIA: How do you feel about the Christopher Nolan Odyssey movie coming out?
ETENG: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm so excited. I don't think I would be as excited if I wasn't into Greek mythology.
JULIA: Yeah.
ETENG: I think it's the perfect movie to be filmed in IMAX. It's so epic.
JULIA: Heck yeah.
ETENG: And I'm like— I think it might've already sold out, but I'll find a way to get in there. It feels like a really, really great way to revisit it and I'm just like, "Ugh, this is why—" you know, shout out to movie theaters. We need—
JULIA: No.
ETENG: —like, I don't want to watch that on an iPad, like in my home. Like it should be in an epic setting.
AMANDA: Uh-uh.
ETENG: So—
JULIA: Also, Zendaya as Athena. What's not to love about that?
ETENG: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so good. The cast is stacked.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: It's gonna be amazing. And, yeah, I feel like this year, I'm kind of through this podcast, through that, revisiting my love of Greek mythology. Like tonight, I'm seeing Hadestown for the first time.
JULIA: Ooh, fun.
AMANDA: Yay.
ETENG: Yeah, yeah. And that story, I am familiar with, but I actually wasn't one of the ones that I actually was reading. So I'm really excited to be like, "I know the general arc, but, you know, the ins and outs, I actually don't know too much about."
JULIA: That's exciting. That's really exciting.
ETENG: Yeah.
AMANDA: I hope you love it, and you'll have to come back and tell us what you thought. We'll have some compare and contrast available to us later in the year.
ETENG: Absolutely, absolutely. I'm down.
JULIA: Incredible. Well, Amanda, do you want to get us started with a urban legend?
AMANDA: I would love to. This one comes to us from Benedict, [7:22] she/her. And she says, "Benedict is a name for girls in very few countries. It might be confusing, but—"
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "—shout out."
JULIA: Love that.
AMANDA: So she writes, "I am a long time listener and fan, particularly if you're Urban Legends episodes. Every time I'm listening to one, I'm always reminded of the two stories I want to write in with, but I always forget because either the episode ends or I've fallen asleep. But I found the time, I've written the email, and I hope you enjoy. First story is a ghost story from when I was 11. I am writing to you all the way from Denmark and the city I live in is called Odense." And then she says, "Have fun pronouncing that." Gave it a go. "It is one of the oldest cities in Denmark and we know that because archeologists have found ruins of Viking ring fortresses dating all the way back to the year 980 CE and was built by Harald Bluetooth," which— do we know this? Do we remember this?
JULIA: Yes, I do. So fun fact, the Bluetooth and the Bluetooth representation is actually a, like, Norse or Viking rune. And that's where we get the name Bluetooth and also the shape of the Bluetooth on your phone.
ETENG: As soon as you said Bluetooth, I was like, "All right, we're— I'm locked in. I'm locked in. I'm learning already."
AMANDA: Nerds are out here copying runes and applying it to the technology that lets my headphones talk to my phone.
JULIA: There you go.
AMANDA: "Coincidentally, the school I went to was built on top of that ruin, Bluetooth's ruin. And this is where the story begins. In Denmark, when you're age 6 to 11, the schools have an activity house linked to the school where kids can play and spend time before their parents get off of work." May I just say?
ETENG: Already. Already.
AMANDA: Way more advanced infrastructure for childcare and living, everywhere but the US.
ETENG: Right.
AMANDA: As we know.
JULIA: We're like, "Well, what about your latchkey kids?"
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: They just don't exist.
AMANDA: What do mean you don't pay extra money for a teenager to play chess with your children until you can get off of work? "My activity house was an old home from the late 1800s, and before it was bought by the school, it was a house for the elderly. This story was told to us by one of the adults who were looking after the kids called David. And he told us the story because one day we found a bone while digging in the dirt on the playground. Now, of course, it was probably an animal bone, but because of the Viking ruins underneath us, this group of 11-year-old girls brought it straight to David, convinced it was a human bone. David played into our fantasy—"
JULIA: Okay. Interesting.
AMANDA: "—before starting the spooky story of the horrible Mr. Anderson, [9:41] who used to rule the elderly home years before our existence."
JULIA: Now, we did say, okay, these are 11-year-olds and David is an adult.
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, we say adult, what do we think the definition of adult is—
ETENG: Right.
JULIA: —in this situation? Because this has either real, like, older uncle energy.
ETENG: Hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Or it has 18-year-old that's been put in charge of 11-year-olds and now is absolutely fucking with them.
ETENG: Yeah. Again, I'm always thinking about TV, but I'm thinking about Joe Keery character from Stranger Things. I'm thinking it's like a—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: —an older— not too old, maybe like an 18-year-old who is maybe a little like, "Oh, I have to deal with these kids," but it's like, "Oh, finally something interesting might happen. So let's go with this."
AMANDA: "So David described Mr. Anderson as a greedy, rude, very selfish person, Mr. Scrooge vibes. While he ran the home for the elderly, he would do everything to make these people die faster."
JULIA: Uh-oh.
ETENG: Hmm.
AMANDA: "David told us he would skip giving dinner, ignore them in bed for days, but just before a resident was about to pass, he would convince them to sign over their will so he could give them a nice, proper burial."
JULIA: No.
ETENG: Hmm.
JULIA: Bad.
AMANDA: David, this is dark. Damn.
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: This is very dark for 11-year-olds, damn.
ETENG: Yeah, yeah.
AMANDA: "David continued that after the person passed away, he would carry the body out in the yard and bury them in a potato sack before stealing the money intended for their burial."
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Hmm, I'm hoping something terrible happens to this man.
ETENG: Right.
AMANDA: Well, Julia, he did this for years. "Before one night, on Halloween—"
JULIA: Classic.
ETENG: Always.
AMANDA: "—the ghosts of all the old people he cheated came back and started to haunt him. The guilt and fear either drove him out of the house or drove him to his own death, depending on the version."
ETENG: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Cool.
AMANDA: "Now, as a creepy kid myself, I was fascinated by the possibility of ghosts in this huge house. And one night, when the activity house was throwing a Halloween party for us kids," so cinematic.
JULIA: Hmm.
ETENG: Hmm.
AMANDA: "I decided with my friend to go and check the attic out, where in some versions of the story is where Mr. Anderson had met his end."
ETENG: I'm anti-attic. I'm— I was never the kid going into an attic or a basement, generally.
AMANDA: The attic, I feel, was like a place of archaeological discovery. At least ours, just was like an unfinished sort of semi-crawl space and had, like, our Christmas decorations in it.
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And so for me, that's like where you went to discover stuff, but the basement was like where you could get got. Didn't like that.
JULIA: Fair.
ETENG: Real, real.
JULIA: Also, Eteng, I saw you do a little chuckle when the listener described themselves as a creepy kid. The amount of people who describe themselves as creepy kids who listen to the podcast is large. It is a large percentage of our audience.
ETENG: Right, right. Okay, let me—
JULIA: Let's just reframe all of the stories you're gonna hear today. Most of these people identified as creepy kids when they were younger.
ETENG: Shout out to Creepy Kids
JULIA: They're our favorite genre.
AMANDA: The creepy kids make cool adults.
ETENG: Absolutely.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "For some context, it gets dark very quickly in Denmark at the end of October. We are very far north. So at the time of the investigation, it was pitch-black outside. That was probably 4:30 or 5:00 p.m. My friend and I had brought flashlights from home and we slowly started to walk up the steep creaking wooden stairs as I looked around the dusty attic. As we stood in the middle of the room, the floor started to creak and we could hear loud thumping footsteps quickly moving toward us from the corners of the roof."
JULIA: Uh-oh.
ETENG: Uh-uh. Uh-uh.
AMANDA: "We ran downstairs screaming and vowed to each other immediately never to talk of this experience again."
ETENG: Yeah, that's me. That's me.
JULIA: Classic.
AMANDA: "Later in life, I worked with David at a different job."
ETENG: Oh, David.
AMANDA: "And brought up the story of Mr. Anderson."
JULIA: Incredible.
AMANDA: "He laughed and told me that he'd noticed my fascination and overheard me talking to my friend about breaking into the attic. So he planted a speaker up there."
JULIA: Oh, my God.
ETENG: No!
AMANDA: "And played the sound of footsteps when he noticed us walking up."
ETENG: Wow!
JULIA: That's wild.
ETENG: The commitment. The— okay, he was bored. He definitely was, like, 19. That confirms that.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Especially if she was 11 at the time and then, like, 10 to 15 years later, they're working together. I think David is absolutely giving bored kid at his after school job vibes.
ETENG: Yes, yes.
JULIA: True.
AMANDA: "Our other story is neither a tale nor a myth. It's about the time that I lived with my great grandmother's ghost."
JULIA: Yes! We love to hear it.
AMANDA: "Last year, I went to Vienna for an internship and I lived in the apartment that used to belong to my great grandmother, but lived there alone. My dad is Austrian, so his side of the family still lives in Vienna. And when my great grandmother passed a few years ago, they decided to keep the apartment so they wouldn't have to get a hotel every time they go visit family."
JULIA: Nice.
AMANDA: "This apartment hasn't changed a bit other than a semi-renovated kitchen when my grand moved in, in the 1970s. The apartment had a living room, a kitchen, a small bathroom and a small bedroom. As everything looked exactly the same as when she had passed, with the same wind chimes on the bookshelf, all her knickknacks, and even smelled like her, even though she'd been gone for about 15 years by this time. I've always been a bit sensitive to spirits and such things with a ringing or a buzzing feeling in my ears, cold shivers, or even just a sensation when walking into a room."
JULIA: Creepy kid.
ETENG: I— you know, I'm really thinking if— about my ghost encounters, and I don't know if I've had any. Or maybe I didn't know, but I'm also the scaredy kid who, like, if I had run up into— one, I would have never gone into the attic. But I think I would duck out before the ghost had a chance to, like, really make its presence known, so—
JULIA: There's a thing that we have kind of established from all of these listener-submitted stories where you're either Team Investigate where if it's like you hear a noise, you get out of bed and go investigate it in the middle of the night or you're Team Ignorant, which means you hear a noise and you're like, "Nope." And just close your eyes and pull the covers over your head. So I'm thinking Team Ignorant.
ETENG: Team Ignorant. I have mad respect for the investigators. And I know I— me as a kid, I wouldn't do it on my own. So if I was going to investigate, I'm like, "We need a squad of people. I need a minimum of, like, five people."
JULIA: Hell yeah.
AMANDA: So your TV and pop culture viewing has prepared you to survive the horror movie. You know what to do.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
ETENG: Right, right, exactly. But it makes me think about— I used to go to— when I went to Six Flags, they would always have, like, haunted houses and things like that. And I'd be like, "Okay, I'm down to go, but I have to be in the middle, like surrounded by everybody."
JULIA: 100%.
ETENG: Yes. And would still sprint away anyway, but yeah. But I do believe in ghosts. I do think all of that is happening. I don't know if I want to be involved, though.
AMANDA: Yeah, you don't need to welcome it to just observe it.
ETENG: Yeah. Exactly.
JULIA: You're like, "I believe in it, I don't want it happening to me."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: Right. If I have the choice, yeah.
JULIA: That's fair.
AMANDA: "So as soon as I walk into this time capsule of an apartment for the first time in many years, I felt something. It wasn't bad or good, but maybe more just familiarity and ease. It honestly felt like I was seeing somebody I loved for the first time in forever. And it was that warm feeling when you see them doing well. It was fine at first, but I could kind of always feel something living along beside me in the space. And, hey, I didn't mind as long as it didn't bother me, getting to stay in this apartment for free. Then, when two months had passed, I started feeling a little bit lonely. I'd been in the city for a few weeks. I'd just gotten a boyfriend back in Denmark before I moved away. And the family that I did have in Austria was still over an hour from me. Then after one really bad day, I went to bed, crying a little bit, looking at my great grandmother's pictures on the wall and her sewing box on the bookshelf as I fell asleep. I woke up that night suddenly in the very middle of the night, with a ringing in my ears. And even more than that, I felt disoriented. I opened my eyes and could see the shape of an open door at the other end of the room. Now, one thing about me, I always close the door before going to bed. It feels creepy if I don't."
ETENG: Same, same.
AMANDA: "I remember seeing the open door and thinking that the door was a ghost because there's no way I would have let the door be open when falling asleep. I must have been imagining something. I woke up again after what felt like about 15 minutes. But this time, it wasn't that I snapped awake. I blinked awake, slowly, groggy. I would have fallen asleep again, but decided to open my eyes because something was waking me up. I felt my duvet slowly being pulled off me in small, quick jabs."
JULIA: No, thank you.
AMANDA: "In fact, I could feel that the pulling was coming from a direction, from the bottom left corner of my bed. I was still hearing that ringing from the previous time I woke up, but it was even more intense now. I tried sitting up, but my arms almost felt numb from the force of this ringing echoing through my body."
JULIA: Hard no, hard no.
ETENG: Uh-uh. Yeah, I'm like, "The bed is a—" I love to sleep.
JULIA: Same.
ETENG: So, I'm like, "If you must, we can't do this while I'm in bed. Like, I need to— no, no, no, no, no. Absolutely not."
JULIA: Anywhere else in the household, that's fine.
ETENG: Anywhere else.
JULIA: Bathroom, sure, whatever. Who cares?
ETENG: Right. Right.
JULIA: But the bed, sacred place.
ETENG: The bed, no, no. That's not real— yeah, that's not fair.
AMANDA: So Benedict continues, "I yelled out in Danish, 'Go away, I need to sleep, please, I'm tired.' But the ringing kept going on. And as I finally was able to sit up, I wondered why it wasn't stopping because I thought it was Ghost 101 that if you ask them to do something or firmly tell them what you need, they'll listen."
JULIA: Is it 'cause it was in Danish?
AMANDA: Well—
ETENG: Oh.
JULIA: Ghost doesn't speak Danish, maybe?
ETENG: Language, right.
JULIA: Hmm.
ETENG: Right. That's a barrier.
AMANDA: "I then thought that maybe this is my great-grandmother, since the sort of ghostly presence that I had been feeling wasn't evil or unknown, and in fact, had felt comforting and warm when I first got in. So I said the same thing again in German before falling back asleep. I woke up the next day, surprisingly very well-rested, to see my door close shut and my duvet tucked in under my feet, making a perfect, little envelope."
JULIA: Aw.
AMANDA: "After that, I spoke to the presence, who I think to be my great-grandmother every day, when I would come home from work, tell her about my day, how our family was doing, and look at all her photo albums, talking with myself to her about my memories of growing up with her."
JULIA: Aw. That's very sweet.
ETENG: Yeah.
AMANDA: "And that's the story of my great-grandma roommate. Thank you for a great podcast, and I can't wait for the next episode. Sending you Danishes and Lego as a delayed Christmas present, Benedict."
ETENG: Oh, I love that.
JULIA: So good.
ETENG: So good. So, so good.
AMANDA: Sometimes they're heartwarming, which is good.
ETENG: Yeah.
JULIA: A haunting can be nice, you know?
ETENG: Yes. Yes.
JULIA: Just 'cause it's a ghost doesn't mean it has to be scary.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: That's true.
AMANDA: And, you know, the language accessibility, we love to see it, you know? You know your audience, you make sure they understand.
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And we get there.
JULIA: It's also good to know that we don't understand all languages when we pass on.
AMANDA: A little bit of a bummer. I would love to just have the, like, universal translator embedded in me.
ETENG: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Maybe it depends on how passed on you are, perhaps.
ETENG: Yeah.
JULIA: Who knows? Who can say?
AMANDA: Yeah, that's right. 15 years past, she's still in her, like, youthful stages of ghost.
ETENG: Fresh.
JULIA: She's still fresh—
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —and ghost-y years.
AMANDA: Fresh spirit, freshly minted.
ETENG: Yes, yes.
JULIA: All right, let me see. I have a follow-up email from a listener that had submitted a story in November of 2024 and we read the story on the pod. Now this was Robin, [21:53] they/them, and they were talking to us about how they thought they had a house brownie, which is like a house spirit that you can usually appease in some way with, like, milk or beer, or bread or something like that.
ETENG: Okay.
JULIA: And so you might recall, listeners, that this was one of those things where we were like, "Hey, I don't— that doesn't really sound like a brownie. It might be a ghost. It might be like a poltergeist situation. I'm not exactly sure." So we gave a little feedback to Robin. And Robin sent us an email just a few weeks ago titled, I am Boo-Boo the Fool, and you were right.
AMANDA: All right, Robin, let's go.
JULIA: So Robin writes, "Hi, Spirits team. I emailed y'all a while back about a possible brownie living in my house. You two aptly pointed out that my house's status as a new build wouldn't preclude it from being haunted and, uh, the ghost agrees with you."
AMANDA: Oh, no.
ETENG: That's good to know. I mean, I feel like in the, like, the $4,000 new builds, they could have put that as an amenity, like not haunted, but now they can't, so—
JULIA: I think the argument that we made was just because the building is new, the land definitely isn't new.
ETENG: Absolutely.
JULIA: You could definitely have something going on in that house just based on the history of the land itself.
ETENG: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah, and something we haven't explored, I think, Julia, deeply enough is that the, like, shitty builders grade materials in some of these new buildings that are, like, popped up really quick by, like, gentrifying developers, trying, like, not to put very much money in it, but then charge a lot of money to tenants.
JULIA: We call it the contractors special.
AMANDA: Yeah, they could— you know, some of those gaps, it doesn't just let in air, it could let in some benevolence. You know what I mean?
JULIA: Hmm.
ETENG: You know, that's real. That's so real. Yeah.
JULIA: You know how, like, you know, certain alignments and stuff like that are supposed to be good for the energy of a house? Crooked tile work invites ghosts. I don't know.
AMANDA: Or just the frustration of every tenant moving in and being like, "I'm paying four grand for what exactly?"
ETENG: For this, yeah. For paper walls and— yeah. And then on top of that— I mean, we were about to go into it, but like, I'm already paying four grand for rent and now I need to feed and I'm like, "Wait a minute."
JULIA: "I have to feed a ghost?"
ETENG: "Can you maybe you pitch in for the Con Ed or— I don't know. Now, I've got a roommate I didn't ask for."
AMANDA: Pull your weight.
JULIA: This is a real New York City coded feedback, but—
ETENG: Right, right. I'm like, "If they were paying the rent, you're welcome to stay."
AMANDA: I can cohabitate with mice, that's fine. They can have their area, I have mine. But only if it subsidizes the rent, you know?
ETENG: Right. Pitch in, y'all.
JULIA: Robin continues, "To keep a long story short, around the time that you read my message on air, my spouse and I had decided to name the presence in our house Bonnet, after the Bluebonnets our state is so fond of. We also realized that the presence in our house was distinctly feminine and that she was becoming more and more restless."
AMANDA: Hmm.
ETENG: Okay.
JULIA: "Now, the energy inside our house was worsening and my husband often would hear a woman screaming."
AMANDA: Oh, okay. Disconcerting.
ETENG: Is that how they know it's feminine? I was curious about that.
JULIA: I guess so.
ETENG: That'll do it. I was like, "Oh, maybe—"
AMANDA: The vibe.
ETENG: "—subtle, but no." The vibe— but the shouting will do it.
JULIA: Now, the next line's fun, "After hearing your reaction to my story, we agreed that Bonnet was most likely a ghost of a woman who had been murdered by a male lover, since she really seemed to have it out for my spouse, but largely left me alone."
ETENG: Hmm.
AMANDA: Okay. Ghosts can be girl's girl.
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: And we'd love to see it.
ETENG: Right.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. They said, "Any men in the house, no thank you. Any other person of any other gender, fine."
ETENG: Great. Marked safe.
JULIA: "We hurried to welcome her properly and just like that, the activity in the home died down. Months passed and the house remained peaceful, especially with us regularly thanking Bonnet for whatever it is exactly she does here."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "We like to believe she's protecting the house, but who knows? It's her afterlife, not ours."
ETENG: [26:14]
JULIA: "But do you want to know what dumb mistake I made that pissed Bonnet off?"
ETENG: I'm, like, taking notes. I'm— this is Ghost 101. Like, what to not to do. Yeah.
JULIA: "You see, I think I'm not as spiritually sensitive as my spouse, despite being the one who's actively more interested in the supernatural." That's sometimes just how it goes, you know? The person who has the gift is like, "I don't really care about this." "Unlike him who hears things on occasion, I mostly just feel the presence. If I can hear anything, then it sure does come only through my own voice in my head. And that's pretty far from reliable proof as far as I go. So what do you think I did when I realized that I hadn't really felt Bonnet's presence in a while? My dumbass wondered aloud if she had left."
ETENG: Hmm.
AMANDA: Ah.
Juila: "And you want to know what happened pretty much immediately afterwards?"
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: "My bag of recently bought makeup completely disappeared."
ETENG: No!
AMANDA: No!
ETENG: No!
AMANDA: No!
JULIA: Robin, that's an expensive Sephora trip.
ETENG: No, that's hundreds.
AMANDA: Hundreds of dollars!
ETENG: Hundreds.
JULIA: Presumably.
ETENG: I mean, I'll go into Sephora and get, like, two things and somehow it's 150.
JULIA: Yeah.
ETENG: Oh, wait.
AMANDA: Yeah.
ETENG: Okay, she's not a girl's girl. Wow, that—
JULIA: That's tough.
ETENG: Oh, no.
AMANDA: Like a sister who knows how to insult you just the right way.
ETENG: No.
AMANDA: She took the thing that you most don't want to lose.
JULIA: So Robin continues, "I clearly remember bringing the bag into my home and leaving it on the bathroom counter."
AMANDA: Ugh!
JULIA: "But is—"
AMANDA: I'm picturing the Sephora stripe.
ETENG: No, literally.
AMANDA: Oh, brutal!
JULIA: "But is it there anymore, let alone anywhere in the house? Nope. Absolutely not."
ETENG: Uh-uh.
JULIA: "And then immediately after, my poor spouse also heard the screaming again. He says it stopped after I burned some incense for Bonnet again, but my makeup never showed back up. Thankfully, the stuff I bought was relatively cheap to replace." Thank God, that Sephora trip—
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: —can be expensive.
AMANDA: I mean, relative is relative.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: So I don't know many people who can afford to drop a couple hundred bucks, you know, willy-nilly.
ETENG: No. And the return poli— I mean, I don't know. It's already very hard to return makeup.
JULIA: The return policy for, "Hey—" go— imagine going into a Sephora and saying, "Hey, so my Sephora stuff got stolen. Here's the receipt. A ghost did take it." I don't think that Sephora employees paid enough to really navigate that situation.
ETENG: Absolutely not. It's like, "Please get out of my face right now." Like—
AMANDA: If it's a lush, we may have a little bit more flexibility. Notably, every lush—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —soap barista I've ever spoken to has been, like, the target audience for Spirits. So they may be a little more, you know, in the know.
JULIA: True, true.
AMANDA: Intimidatingly well put together Sephora girly of any gender. I don't know if they have the manager credit to be able to replace those items.
ETENG: No, no. They're like, "I've heard it all." Like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
ETENG: —the things people say to get Fenty Beauty, not today.
JULIA: So they finish up with, "Thankfully, it was relatively cheap to replace, but I learned my lesson to never doubt Bonnet again. May my unfortunate experience remind you ConSpiriters to never make your resident ghost feel forgotten because boy howdy, will they make sure you don't forget ever again." Incredible. So, so good.
AMANDA: May be worth a quick apology to Bonnet and to say, "I was— you know, I'm so—"
ETENG: Right.
AMANDA: "—glad you're still with us and sort of move on."
JULIA: "My bad."
AMANDA: "Make a little bit of peace." It's good for us to humble ourselves, apologize when we're wrong and, you know, move forward.
JULIA: Agreed.
ETENG: "Go back to taking my partner's stuff. Like, I thought we were—" but, you know, that was the consequence. That was—
JULIA: Yes.
ETENG: So—
JULIA: I would rather get screamed at by a ghost than have a decent amount of money stolen from me in the cost of makeup.
ETENG: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: For sure.
AMANDA: Yeah.
ETENG: Absolutely. Yeah, especially now that they're— I don't know if this is still a thing, but the Sephora kids, which is— I mean, that's a whole other—
JULIA: It's a whole other pop culture thing for us.
ETENG: I'm like, just the experience of buying makeup, like it's already, you know, a limited amount and now there's a kid and I'm like, "I don't want to fight with this kid."
AMANDA: Yeah.
ETENG: "But I do need to get this lip liner." It's just— it's already a hassle and a chore, so—
AMANDA: I'm with you. I can think of very few errands I wanna do less than, like, going to Sephora to buy things while wearing not a professionally put on face of makeup. Because it just— no one's judging me actively, but I feel it. I judge myself, I worry.
ETENG: Yes, yes. I'm like hoodie, head down, sunglasses.
AMANDA: Pretend I came from the gym.
ETENG: Exactly, exactly. Trying to be as in and out as possible. And I always feel like— whenever I realize I have to go to Sephora, it's because I'm in the middle of getting ready and I'm like, "Oh, I'm actually out of this thing."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: So it's already, you know, chaotic.
JULIA: For sure. I wouldn't judge anyone for going into Sephora with not a full face of makeup, and I won't judge anyone if we need a refill to go grab one right now.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
[theme]
JULIA: Hey, this is Julia, and welcome to the refill. As you might have heard in our previous refills, we are donating our ad space for the foreseeable future to small businesses and mutual aid efforts in Minneapolis that benefit immigrants, protesters, and activists. If you are a podcaster and you want to join us in this effort, you can go to bit.ly/mnpodcastads. That is bit.ly/mnpodcastads. This week, I want to highlight No ICE in Minnesota, which is a bundle on itch.io that is being used to help raise funds for the Immigrant Law Center of Minnesota. You can pay what you can with a minimum of $10 in order to get over 1,400 tabletop RPGs. I was really excited when I saw this. I bought it pretty much instantly. I paid more than the $10 because I had money to do that for, but hey, it is an incredible deal and they are aiming to raise $500,000 which they are getting very, very close to. Some games included in that bundle that might interest Spirits listeners. Cryptid Creeks which is a cozy horror role-playing game. What Crooked Roots which is a folklore horror encounters. And Grimoire which is a solo story game about spellcraft and wizardry. If you are interested in that, you can find the link in our episode description. Thank you to our newest patrons, Maya, Michael from Quest for Power, and Smurrasaur. [33:26]They join the ranks of our supporting producer level patrons like Uhleeseeuh, Hannah, Scott, Anne, Matthew, Lily, and Wil. And of course our legend-level patrons, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Audra, Sarah, Bea Me Up Scotty, Morgan, Bex, Rikoelike, Chibi Yokai, and Michael. And you, too, can go ahead and join patreon.com/spiritspodcast today. Again, that's patreon.com/spiritspodcast. I want to tell you about another show here at Multitude and that is Pale Blue Pod. Pale Blue Pod is an astronomy podcast for people who are overwhelmed by the universe but still want to be its friend. Astrophysicist Dr. Moiya McTier and her best friend, ConStar demystify space one topic at a time with open eyes, open arms, and open mouths from all of the laughing and the jaw-dropping that happens each and every episode. By the end of each episode, the cosmos will feel a little less, "Ah, too scary," and a lot more, "Ooh, so cool." New episodes every Monday wherever you get your podcasts.
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SPEAKER 10: And why did they ask us to do the ad?
SPEAKER 11: Because we're in it, too. Join the show that takes you from this.
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SPEAKER 16: Find them now wherever you listen to podcasts.
JULIA: And now, let's get back to the show.
[theme]
JULIA: We are back. And, Eteng, what we love to ask each and every one of our guests is what have you been drinking lately? Whether that is cocktails, mocktails, coffee creations? What has been your drink of choice lately?
ETENG: Yes, I love this question. I'm such a big cocktail girly. I love— again, everything— all roads lead back to the craft.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: Set it on fire, 20 ingredients, all— like, all of it. I love it. I love the production of it all. I've been saying that I'm in a mezcal phase of my life.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: And this phase has been years, so I think I can just say that I like mezcal.
JULIA: Solid mezcal girlie, yeah.
ETENG: Yes. But I have a really great track record of convincing people that they like mezcal, because there's very— you know, it's very distinct, it's very smoky. A lot of people, before I convert them, are like, "Absolutely not. This is too intense." And I'm like, "All right, let's get on a journey." So I'm like a Mezcal Sherpa—
JULIA: I love that.
ETENG: —in that way. So whether you like a mezcal margarita or like something a little bit more subtle or, you know— but it's just such a great spirit that when you go to a really, really solid place, which if I can, I— I'm not sponsored by them, but Fresh Kills—
JULIA: Yeah.
ETENG: —in Williamsburg.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: It—
AMANDA: Love Fresh Kills.
ETENG: My dream. Because I am that person, and I'm sure this is annoying to other bartenders, that's like, "Well, I like Mezcal and I like this. Could you, like, whip something up?
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: And they're like, "Please, order from the menu." So I do love—
JULIA: "Please, something I already have the specs for. I beg of you."
ETENG: Right, right. And, you know, we love our bartenders. I'm not obnoxious, but I will try. And when they say no, I'm like, "We'll move on." But—
JULIA: That is fair.
ETENG: —Fresh Kills is amazing, amazing place. There's no menu and, you know, I can just be like, "Mezcal, spicy." I like a coupe glass, like get as specific as possible. So—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: —yeah, if you don't think you like Mezcal, you know, hit me up.
JULIA: We can convert you.
ETENG: Yeah. I'm like 10 out of 10. There isn't a single person that I have not been able to convince to like Mezcal, so—
AMANDA: What a track record.
JULIA: I actually have another repeat listener who has submitted a story in the past. This is from Lo, [37:27] she/her, who you'll remember, listeners and Amanda from the beaded doorway ghost story.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, this is the millennial story of, do you remember the Beaded Doorways of the '90s and the early 2000's?
ETENG: Yes. As soon as you said millennial, I was like, "Yeah."
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Yes. So in this story, she had been sleeping in her bedroom and thought her sister had come into her room in the middle of the night because she heard the jingle, jangle of the beaded doorway. And then when she looked up, there was no one there.
AMANDA: Bad.
ETENG: Again, the bedrooms, don't—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: For the ghosts listening, please. That's my one— pay a little rent and not the bedroom, please.
JULIA: Luckily, this story that Lo submitted is not about bedrooms, but instead titled, Staircases in the Woods May Not Be as Dangerous as They Appear.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: So she writes, "Hi, friends, it's your geriatric millennial with the beaded doorway ghosts. I'm about to blow my secret identity, but only to people who know me really well, and I don't think any of them listen to podcasts. So I guess we'll see."
ETENG: Yeah. Yes.
AMANDA: We can work on that.
ETENG: Yes.
JULIA: "When I was 7 years old, we moved to my grandparents' house in southeast Alaska. I was a generally happy kid, extroverted, and active, a bit of a skinny mini, and very much the leader of our neighborhood gang of kids."
AMANDA: Wait, what's a skinny mini?
JULIA: A skinny mini, like a little like— you know, a skin and bones kind of kid growing up.
AMANDA: Oh, okay, okay.
ETENG: I've never heard the term. I was just going off of context clues.
JULIA: As a child who was also described as a skinny mini as a kid, I feel that.
ETENG: Oh, okay. It's a thing, all right.
AMANDA: Maybe like a minnow? Maybe that's what it's coming from or just rhymes.
JULIA: I think it just rhymes, yeah.
AMANDA: It's pleasant to say.
JULIA: "I didn't love moving, but I did love my grandparents, and I was allowed to run around and explore to my heart's content," which I imagine in Southeast Alaska is kind of really fun for an 11-year-old.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: Yeah, just land.
JULIA: Exactly, just like forest and nature to explore. That sounds like my ideal situation, personally.
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "Now, my grandma and grandpa lived in this gorgeous house at the top of this very steep hill with dense forest between the houses and above and below the road. One day, I was playing in the woods on the downslope and found a staircase."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "The wood was mossy and gray. It had obviously been out in the woods for a long time, but it was sturdy enough for me to climb all the heck over it, running up and down and around these stairs." Which I think at this age also, there is something in, like, our human, animal brains that is like, "I must get high up. I must climb all of the things." I remember at this age, I was, like, obsessed with climbing trees.
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So finding a staircase in the middle of the woods to be high and, like, tall, definitely appeals to me.
ETENG: Absolutely. I think this is why I love rooftops to see—
JULIA: Exactly.
ETENG: —like, how high can we get? Yeah.
JULIA: "I was alone for once. I wasn't sure where my sisters were, but they were generally less enthusiastic to play outside in the rain than I was. And when you're 7, those couple of younger years really make a difference." Also, I love that it's raining in this situation. Out in the woods in Southeast Alaska in, like, I assume a drizzle kind of situation, sounds very atmospheric.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "After this day, I changed."
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: "The move stung more and I was suddenly shy and awkward around new kids. I gained weight and I had mood disorders, and I was pretty miserable in general. That said, I adored the woods and I found that I could go out as far as my legs could take me, spin around a dozen times and still not get lost."
AMANDA: Huh.
JULIA: And then in parentheses, adds, "(Incredibly bad and dangerous idea. Do not do this.)"
ETENG: The beauty of being a kid. It's like you don't think about— you don't have to deal with health insurance like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: That is true.
ETENG: —that's where my mind is like, "Oh, okay, I can't do this thing."
AMANDA: "Yeah, it's raining, I can't afford a broken wrist. That sounds bad."
ETENG: No, no, not today.
JULIA: She continues, "I created these elaborate games with a war between the fairy folk and evil spirits that were led by a griffin. I never ran across dangerous animals, had any dangerous falls, or came across any dangerous water. I did once get hit by a tour bus that looked like a killer whale, but that's a different story."
AMANDA: Whoa!
ETENG: A bus? A bus, bus?
AMANDA: A Shamu bus?
JULIA: Yep, just a tour bus.
ETENG: Oh, gosh.
AMANDA: I'm sure every, like, Alaskan, Hawaiian, Puertorriqueño is like, "Yeah, with the tourist buses, let's not. Please leave me alone."
ETENG: Yeah, that sounds like a lawsuit. I'm like— you— did you get some money for that? Like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
ETENG: Oof. Okay.
JULIA: "This was when my really good bad luck started. Or really bad good luck? Not sure."
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: "Incredibly bad things happened to me with the best possible of outcomes."
ETENG: Oh.
JULIA: "Only a little road rash from that bus, but my bike was totaled."
AMANDA: Huh.
JULIA: So it's like terrible things are happening, but like walking away unscathed.
ETENG: Yeah.
AMANDA: The ninth life effect, right? It's like, "Oh, this was— that was the ninth one." Like, something really bad happened as, you know, a cat, you land on your feet, but like at what cost?
JULIA: "Now, my favorite thing about the move was our new house. I could see the spirit of a mountain from my bedroom window, her shape formed by the angles of snow and rocks on her peaks. In retrospect, it was a beautiful time, but I, as a person, was haunted by depression and anxiety in a way that wasn't well understood in the late '80s and early '90s."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "Anyway, we eventually moved into a house in North Carolina, the one from my first story with the Beaded Ghost."
ETENG: Oh, okay.
JULIA: "I grew up and had many more adventures back in Alaska and many other places, but I always felt off, or different. I became a witch as soon as I could and have always had a metaphysical bent towards the supernatural. And for a while in my 20s, I tried really hard to be 'normal', but that just wasn't me and I have discovered myself in my middle age." However, you remember the staircase in the woods?"
AMANDA: I have not forgotten.
JULIA: I mean, that is the point of the story, really, if you think about it.
ETENG: Right.
JULIA: "Well, I've been a big fan of creepypasta, which are very fun to read. And years ago, I found a lot of stories warning against going through strange doors or going up lonely staircases in the woods."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: This has become a thing. I've seen many creepypastas that are about, like, a lone staircase in the woods or, like, going through a door in the woods and being forever changed or being disappearing without a trace, right?
ETENG: What's a creepypasta?
JULIA: So a creepypasta is basically, like, a copy-paste short story. It's usually told as if it is true and it is a big thing on Reddit as a, like, sort of horror story—
ETENG: Hmm.
JULIA: —community event, right? It comes from the idea of, like, copypasta, but it's particularly, like, creepy stories.
ETENG: I see, I see. All right. I'm—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: —learning so much. Thank you.
JULIA: So she continues, "I laughed reading these stories, thinking, 'I remember playing on those stairs and nothing bad happened to me.' It wasn't until later that I put together how much I changed just after finding those stairs. Now, I don't think I'm a changeling, but if I have been touched by the supernatural, I certainly did everything that I could to get that way. Later today, I'm going to pull out my favorite tarot deck and ask a few questions I have been circling around for a very long time. Thank you for listening to me. Email this time since my phone quality isn't great." I forgot that it was a voicemail last time, which made it so much worse hearing that story described.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: But, yeah, thank you, Lo. [45:39] That's a great story. And while that happened to you, and it might have changed the trajectory of your creepy childhood to creepy adulthood. And I love that for you.
ETENG: Yeah.
AMANDA: I'd be curious, too, if you ever make your way back and if the staircase is still standing—
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —if there is some kind of closure or walking back up or down that you might feel. And maybe, if not, there is a representative way to do it. Maybe there is, you know, another staircase that you can make some peace with or a, you know, construction. Maybe you can build one, you know, burn it ritualistically to kind of leave behind that part of you. I know all kinds of representation and symbology in witchcraft that may be helpful to you here, but I'm curious. I'm invested.
JULIA: It really sounded like you were just suggesting arson, and I love that for you, Amanda, personally.
AMANDA: Well, controlled arson, which is—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —witchcraft.
JULIA: That is—
ETENG: Yeah
JULIA: —sometimes, yes. That is true.
ETENG: There's an intention behind it, like, you know—
JULIA: Controlled arson done by witches and also volunteer fire departments.
ETENG: Yeah, yeah.
AMANDA: That's exactly right. Folks, can I close us out with one of the creepier stories I've read in the last couple of years on this podcast?
JULIA: Excellent.
ETENG: Let's do it.
AMANDA: This is Lenny, [46:53] she/her, and she writes about "The day I screamed and the woman with the gift."
JULIA: Uh-oh.
ETENG: Always great names with horror stories.
AMANDA: This really reminded me of a Buffy episode, like The Day I Screamed just really feels like one of the, like, the silent episode or the musical episode—
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —or, like, one of those kind of, you know, late '90s, early aughts, like, sitcom tropes.
ETENG: Yes, yes.
AMANDA: "Hey, Amanda and Julia, my name is Lenny, writing to you from Germany. While putting this email together, I realized I've been listening to your podcast for almost 10 years now, which feels wild to type out."
ETENG: Wow.
JULIA: Wild.
AMANDA: "I've loved every second of it, so thank you for the hours of comfort, laughter, and comforting chills. I wanted to write into you for a long time, but whenever I tried to think of something genuinely spooky that had happened to me or my loved ones, I was coming up blank. I was never a spooky child. No strange encounters, no lingering feeling of unease, nothing that felt worth sending to you. But over the holidays, while talking to my parents and listening to old family stories told again, I think I finally understood why."
JULIA: We did put out a call saying, "Hey, if you're seeing your family members this holiday season, ask them about spooky shit you did as a child and come back to us." So this is exactly what we asked for.
ETENG: Keep your eyes peeled.
AMANDA: I also recently walked into a dive bar at which I'm a regular and was just, like, chatting with other regulars. And then I was like, "Hey, what kinds of ghost stories y'all told when you were at sleepovers as a kid?" And they were all like, "Whoa." And it just— it opened up, like, the cutest, sweetest, most nostalgic discussion of, like, where people were from and the regional differences and what they told each other and their Catholicism. Like, it was great. So highly recommend.
JULIA: Hell yeah.
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: So back to Lenny, "When I was a baby, my mom took me to Cuba where she grew up, so my grandmother and extended family could help care for me and meet me. We lived there most of the time, while my dad, who worked in Germany, visited us whenever he could. We stayed in my mother's hometown, called Baracoa, an old indigenous name that roughly means The Land of Many Rivers. It is lush and green, the town resting between the sea and dense jungle, with rivers cutting through it and mountains rising in the distance. I don't remember a ton of this, but by all accounts, it was a calm and beautiful place to be, until very suddenly, just after I turned three, it wasn't."
JULIA: Uh-oh.
AMANDA: "The thing is, I didn't start crying, I started just screaming."
ETENG: Oh.
AMANDA: "Not like a toddler throwing a tantrum, not like a baby in pain. My parents described it as a continuous, relentless screaming."
ETENG: Wow.
AMANDA: "Something that didn't sound like me at all."
JULIA: Your poor parents. I mean, obviously, this is happening to you and that's terrible, but just imagine a three-year-old screaming un-relentlessly and constantly.
ETENG: Yeah. That reminds me of, like, exorcism movies.
JULIA: Hmm.
ETENG: I'm like, "Something's trying to get out. Maybe that's where the story's heading."
JULIA: Something hinky's going on. Yeah.
AMANDA: The inhuman, right? Like, I— I've been spending time with a couple friends recently who have newborns, and, you know, your body is evolved to respond to that noise. Like a newborn cries, and it is, like, every nerve in your body is activated to do something, as it should.
ETENG: Wow. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: But for it not to be that scream, and to be an inhuman scream, is something else.
ETENG: Uh-uh. Uh-uh.
AMANDA: So Lenny continues—
JULIA: Uh-oh.
AMANDA: —"Didn't stop. Went on for hours."
JULIA: Uh-oh.
AMANDA: "And then days."
ETENG: Days?
AMANDA: "And during all of this, I was completely unresponsive, except for the screaming. I didn't recognize my parents, didn't react to my name, didn't calm down when they held me, didn't want to eat or drink. They say it was like I was caught in a violent trance, awake, but no longer present."
ETENG: Uh-uh.
JULIA: Dang.
AMANDA: "They took me, of course, to doctors. Cuban doctors are very well-trained, even if they don't always have access to all of the resources that they would want to do treatment. But no one could find anything physically wrong with me. Days passed, the screaming continued without pause except when I fell asleep despite myself."
JULIA: I was going to say, did you fall asleep?
ETENG: Right.
JULIA: Like, how was this happening?
ETENG: It's a lot of energy too, so you kind—
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Yes.
ETENG: —of have to at some point.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And, like, you know, you'd think your throat would get sore—
ETENG: Hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —and, like, you lose your voice or anything, but apparently not.
ETENG: Right, right.
AMANDA: "My father, practical and at this point desperate, was on the verge of buying plane tickets back to Germany where, maybe, the doctors weren't better, but at least the hospitals were fully equipped."
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "And that's when a neighbor suggested something else. She told my parents that they should take me to 'the woman with the gift.'"
JULIA: All right, sure.
ETENG: Yep.
AMANDA: "Everybody in town knew who she met. This woman was known to help in situations like this when nothing else could explain what was going on. My father was skeptical and worried that they might lose time to figure out what was going on with me. While my mother, exhausted and terrified, insisted that we had nothing to lose. And with nothing else left to try, they went."
JULIA: I mean, yeah, at that point, I would be like, "Whatever we need, whatever anyone suggests, we can just try it."
AMANDA: Some brujeria.
ETENG: Right.
AMANDA: A mujer con regalo. Like, let's do it.
ETENG: Might as well.
AMANDA: "The woman lived at the edge of town, near the river, in a tiny, wooden hut. She was very old, very tall, and quite broad, with quite dark skin and a white silken scarf wrapped around her head. According to my parents, she carried herself with a quiet authority, a grace and presence that didn't need to announce itself. She told my mother to sit down and place me on her lap, screaming the whole time."
JULIA: [52:16] Jesus. Sorry, I'm just also picturing, like, getting into a taxi to go to the— like if you don't have a car or something like that, and just the taxi driver being like, "What's happening with the screaming child?"
AMANDA: A la mujer con un regalo, por favor.
ETENG: Right, right. I'm glad everyone was on the same page. I was thinking the same thing of, how do you move through your community with this screaming child without someone being like, "One, what's happening here because you're screaming? But also like, are you supposed— is everyone okay? Do you want to be away from these people?"
AMANDA: "Hey, so no worries, but—"
ETENG: "No worries." Like a true millennial. "No worries, but can you handle that? Stat, please."
AMANDA: "In the hut, in the woods, at the edge of the river, the woman began to murmur softly. Her words were indistinct, private, just for her and me, and not in the language that my mother recognized. She used the kind of soap, rubbing it into my hands and feet over and over, again and again, while murmuring continuously, soothing. This went on, my mom said, for about 20 minutes, and I screamed the entire time, until she addressed me directly by name, and I stopped."
JULIA: Oh.
ETENG: Hmm.
AMANDA: "I opened my eyes as if waking up from a bad dream or a hard nap, looked around and asked very calmly, 'Where am I?'"
ETENG: And just like that.
AMANDA: "Just like that. Afterward, I was completely myself again. Calm, happy, unbothered, three. I didn't remember anything about this incident at all."
JULIA: Wow.
AMANDA: "Even later when my parents asked me about what I had been doing the last few—"
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "—days, what I remember, if I had any dreams, there was nothing."
ETENG: Wow.
JULIA: "Do you recall screaming, unstopping?"
AMANDA: "So, hey, what did we do yesterday?"
ETENG: "Because we remember."
AMANDA: Yeah.
ETENG: "We all remember minute by minute what was going on."
AMANDA: "They report that I had no images, no feeling, and no memory even of the screaming, the hut, or the woman with the gift. So the moral of the story, at least the version that my parents like to tell, is that I never became a spooky child because I had concentrated all my spooky encounters into one marathon early on."
JULIA: I think that counts, though, even if it's one time. That's a pretty spooky experience. That's a creepy child moment.
AMANDA: "I like to believe that whatever happened in that little wooden hut by the river, I have been protected by any ill-intentioned spirits ever since."
JULIA: It's like you got vaccinated, right? Like you got vaccinated from spooky shit way early and so you didn't have any other spooky shit happen to you, because any ghost that was around you was like, "Huh, what happened?"
AMANDA: Like you're coated with, like, nonstick coating and they're like, "Oh, sorry, no."
ETENG: Also, shout out to that woman with the gift. I feel like there are these people that are such staples and it's just like— you don't have to be doing this. You just— you do it for the love of the game and so—
JULIA: Absolutely.
ETENG: She's seen some things. I would love to— you know, these people need— if you are that person, you need a book, you need a podcast. Like, I know—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: —you deal with a lot of people. And how are you de-stressing? Like—
JULIA: She just seems so Zen.
ETENG: Oof. Yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah, and she's living in, like, a peaceful home by the river, little spot, removed from town.
ETENG: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Dressed up for the day. Then, she's interrupted by like a generational problem.
ETENG: Right. Imagine she's trying to go to Sephora and pull up, and now it's like— I don't know, this is why I'm not that woman, but I'm just like— there's no way it's— it has to predominantly be a large inconvenience, but you still love it. Like, you can't, like, schedule that in like, "Can—"
AMANDA: Uh-uh.
ETENG: "Are you available at 12:00 noon?" Like, no, we're at the door already, so—
AMANDA: Yeah. She was gonna, like, reorganize her books or, like, sweep her porch and then instead she's like, "Oh, well, this is it." Maybe that's why she has to live in such a peaceful environment because she needs, you know, a few weeks or months of peace after dealing with the ceaselessly screaming toddler.
ETENG: Now, I'm thinking about the last time I, like, really screamed. It's just— it's a lot of energy. I keep going back to that and I'm like— I—
JULIA: Yeah. Like, imagine going to a concert.
AMANDA: You use your voice for a living, come on.
ETENG: Right, right. Right. That's why I'm not doing that.
AMANDA: No amount of Throat Coat could take me back from 4 to 5 days of uninterrupted screaming.
JULIA: True, true, true.
AMANDA: Well, Lenny, thank you. And I'm very glad nothing else came up.
JULIA: Me, too.
AMANDA: Well, Eteng, what is your level of scaredy-cat-ness by the end of this episode? Where did we get? Did we get close to the edge?
ETENG: I— you know, I think from a scale to 1 to 10, maybe like a 6-ish.
JULIA: Okay.
ETENG: And I always do this when I'm, like, listening to scary stories or watching a scary movie of like, "I'm just gonna live a life where I'm never in that situation."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
ETENG: So instead of being like, "Oh, what would I do?" I'm just like, "Oh, I'm not gonna go into the forest and look at the stair— I'm just not gonna do those things. So— and that feels comforting to know that like— you know, obviously some of these things— you know, not everyone opted in, but that's always my main coping mechanism of, like, "You know, I think you'll be okay."
AMANDA: It's like defensive driving, but for haunted-ness. You're like, "You know what? Let me just now put myself in a position if I can control it."
ETENG: Exactly, exactly. So— and I hope— like I live in a brownstone, so I'm like— whatever spirits are around, I hope they're not, like, "Challenge accepted," because I'm like— but, you know, if they did hear this, they did hear me say multiple times, "Not the bedroom." So if anything, don't do that. Don't do that to me there. So—
JULIA: And as a rule, you can politely tell them to stop, and usually, they'll listen.
ETENG: Yes, yes.
JULIA: So—
ETENG: Please. I need my sleep. I need my sleep. Let's— I'm such a Capricorn. I'm like, "We can pencil in the haunting if we must."
JULIA: "We can figure it out, yeah."
ETENG: "But like—"
AMANDA: "Let's talk about our limits. Let's set some boundaries."
ETENG: Right, yes. But love a good ghost story, love a short story. I mean, this all feels very nostalgic, because I feel like I watched a lot of like, "Don't Look Under the Bed and Goosebumps."
JULIA: Hmm.
ETENG: And I'm like, "Oh, yeah. We— I was living through all of this or I was exposed to more of this as a child. Maybe this is good exposure therapy, maybe that's the thing.
JULIA: That's what I'm always saying about our podcast. It's just exposure therapy to people who don't like creepy stuff.
AMANDA: And speaking of comfort, Eteng, would you remind folks where they can listen to Consider This For Comfort and all of the other work you do online?
ETENG: Absolutely. So, Consider This for Comfort currently airing season four. So, new episodes are airing from February to mid-April. Anywhere you listen to podcasts, you can check that out, every Wednesday. This season, I'm debuting a new Hotline segment.
JULIA: Ooh.
ETENG: So, folks can call in and share a dilemma that you're going through. Maybe you want to date again, maybe you're looking for a new job. And then I'll offer you a TV recommendation that'll offer you a little bit more perspective. So if you're interested in getting involved in this new segment that way, you can head over to Instagram @considercomfortpod. Check out the link in my bio and you can submit a 20 to 30-second dilemma and I'll give you a recommendation. Now, the catch is once you submit that, you got to tune into the podcast to get that recommendation. And then I also recently launched a companion newsletter. So each month, I'm calling this a Eteng's Edit. So you can go to my website, E-T-E-N-G-E-T-T-A-H, .com, and you can subscribe to get more of my musings on TV, lifestyle, culture, comes out towards the end of every month. So last month's edition was all about why I love Sinners and why it should get all of the Oscars that it was nominated for and why that will—
JULIA: Fingers crossed.
ETENG: —be what happens. Exactly. So, yeah, so expanding on the types of conversations we have on the podcast, but doing it in written form. So check all of that out.
AMANDA: I can tell you are and were a journalist because your headlines are so good. Sinning is in, folks, and that is an email I want to open in my inbox. So good.
ETENG: Sinning is in. It just comes to me. Like I— this is why I can't have ghosts in my house because—
AMANDA: You're too busy.
ETENG: One, I'm too busy. I don't have the time. But that's some of my favorite parts. I mean, it's such a fun way to be both very fun and silly, and also insightful. And so I love that you mentioned that subject line, because when I came up with it, I was cracking up. And so I'm glad— I'm like," I think this is funny. Yes.
AMANDA: Well, thank you again for joining us. And, folks, next time you are woken in the middle of a night by the jingling of a bead curtain or the whoosh of air over a standalone staircase, or maybe the ceaseless inhuman screaming of your three-year-old child, just remember—
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: —stay cool.
JULIA: Later, Satyrs.
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