Cursed Horses and The Year of the Horse
/Years ago, we had a cursed episode all about horses. Now, to celebrate our 10 year anniversary AND The Year of the Horse, we visit some new horses (and murder horses) from folklore and mythology around the world.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of murder, gore, drowning, sexual assault, animal death, abduction, violence against women, gun violence, and sex.
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And Amanda, sort of keeping with the theme of this is our 10-year anniversary month of Spirits, I've been thinking a lot about our Spirits lore.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: You know? The deep lore of Spirits Podcast as a whole.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Back in the day, we had what we considered a cursed episode.
AMANDA: Well, was it a curse or was it me not knowing that much about audio engineering quite yet? Who can say?
JULIA: Well, okay, so a little context for this. The first time we ever recorded this episode, the interface for the mic just fully wasn't plugged in.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: But also, Amanda, these things happen, especially when you're first podcasting. Like, we've been doing this for a decade now, and the amount of times that we've actually lost audio, we can count on one hand, thankfully.
AMANDA: It's true.
JULIA: So that's huge for us.
AMANDA: Yeah, it's the real, "Is it plugged in?" And the answer was no. And you know what? That's on me.
JULIA: And now we know we can look at the waveforms, we can see that it is in fact plugged in, and then we can go from there. And that's great. That's great for us.
AMANDA: And Julia, you said the first time we recorded this episode. This is not the second time, though.
JULIA: This is not the second time because then we recorded the episode again and we somehow managed to lose the files.
AMANDA: Yep, I just copied them, saved them, thought I saved them, didn't save them. Files were fine, but they're gone.
JULIA: Yeah. So what happened was, Amanda, you did manage to find them later because we had brought a guest on that we were really excited about. And so you were like, "I have to make sure that these files are saved in multiple locations so that we don't lose the files," right?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And so you found the files for this lost episode in like a separate hard drive.
AMANDA: Yep. So secured that I lost them, you know?
JULIA: So we managed to find them again, and then that is when we released our Horses episode for the first time. This was episode 87, Amanda.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: And since it's been a decade of doing Spirits, and I've been thinking about the stuff that has become "lore" for us, I wanted to think about the cursed episode of Spirits. And also, this aligns perfectly with the fact that not only is it our 10-year anniversary month, but it is also the Chinese New Year coming up.
AMANDA: Hooray!
JULIA: And Amanda, do you want to guess what the year is?
AMANDA: I know this, Julia, because I was forged in fire as a horse girl. And I have known for months that the coming year in the Chinese zodiac is the Year of the Horse. And not just the horse, the fire horse.
JULIA: Fire horse. Incredible. I didn't look at the elemental horse that this is, so I appreciate you coming in with the knowledge.
AMANDA: I'm so excited. As we leave the year of the snake behind shedding what no longer suits us and then we charge forward with the momentum of the fire horse, I'm ready.
JULIA: It's pretty sick. So I think this is a great opportunity for us to revisit mythological horses, horses of folklore, horses of legend, and also add some new and interesting ones to our roundup.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: So since part of the reason that we're talking about the horse is because it is now the Year of the Fire Horse in the Chinese zodiac, I feel like I have to remind you a little bit about that story.
AMANDA: Please do!
JULIA: Now, keep in mind, we did do a whole episode about the Chinese zodiac back in the day. I think it's worth mentioning for context again, but if you want to hear even more detail about this and the Chinese zodiac as a whole, you can head over to that episode and listen to it. So as you might remember, the story of the Chinese zodiac and the order of the years was determined through what is called the Great Race, which is where they had each of the animals which had to race across land and also across a raging river in order to arrive at the Jade Emperor's palace. Now in this story the horse came in seventh out of the twelve. So here's kind of how the order happened up to the horse, which is the ox being very strong is able to cross the river very easily. The rat hitches a ride on his back and then jumps in front of him in line once they get across the river.
AMANDA: So wily.
JULIA: Tiger, as a super powerful swimmer manages to get across easily as well, even though he is slightly slowed down by the rapids of the river compared to the ox. Rabbit manages to jump from stone to stone rather than attempt to swim through the strong currents. But then when it falls in halfway through, it is saved by dragon. Horse, being a strong runner, but not a strong swimmer, would have been in sixth, but snake had wrapped itself around horse's hoof. And then when horse spotted the snake, it gave horse such a fright that it stumbled back, which allowed snake to become the sixth animal and horse arrived as seventh. Thus, horse is a seventh animal and the seventh year in the Chinese zodiac cycle.
AMANDA: Fabulous.
JULIA: So cute, right? And then the rest of the animals were like, "Eh, we got there, eventually."
AMANDA: Exactly. It's fine. We make it in the 12-year cycle, don't worry.
JULIA: But besides the zodiacal horse, which is a new word that I picked up doing the research for this episode.
AMANDA: Why does my brain really want to say that like maniacal? Like zodiacal, but that's not it.
JULIA: This is one of those words where I've never heard it said out loud and just read it. And you could be right. It could be zodiacal. So there are plenty of other horses that can be found in Chinese folklore. One of the most interesting ones that I found, so in my opinion, ties horses to silkworms and the production of silk.
AMANDA: Oh, really?
JULIA: So this story comes from Lihui Yang's book, which is called the Handbook of Chinese Mythology, and it is called The Horseheaded Lady.
AMANDA: Not just a thing that you might rudely call someone who you don't find attractive.
JULIA: Yeah. Hey, horse face is a bad description of someone's face. Just saying.
AMANDA: At this point, it just reminds me of BoJack Horseman, so if you want to make me laugh and feel little bit unnerved, then fine.
JULIA: Fair. And also a little sad.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So the story goes a long time ago in China, essentially, any able-bodied man of a certain age could be forced into military service. There was no limit on how long the service could be and men often were sent far away from home in order to serve, either never to return or not to return for years and years and years. So the heroine of our story, her father was conscripted into the army and sent away. The girl missed him very, very, very much and was desperate to see him returned home. And so she went to the family's horse. I'm really picturing it like she's home alone by herself and she's like, "Oh, horse, I don't know what to do." That real meme from The Good Place of like, "Oh, Ariana, we're really in it now."
AMANDA: But, like, your arms around the neck of a big horse who loves you.
JULIA: Exactly, exactly. So I picture that, so this horse is like, "Oh, horse, if only my father could be brought home, I would marry anyone, even you, the horse."
AMANDA: The horse says, "This is my moment."
JULIA: The horse takes off, disappears. So essentially, she's like, "If you could go and find my father and bring him back to me, I'll marry you." Crazy statement to make.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: I'm assuming she was just like speaking in, you know, metaphor hyperbole, what have you.
AMANDA: "I'll do anything." Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JULIA: I'll do anything, even marry a horse." So I think much to her surprise, the horse runs off and then after some time, returns home with the father.
AMANDA: Insane. Good job, horse.
JULIA: Now the girl rejoiced that her father was back, but at the same time also mentioned to him this promise that she made to the horse.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Like, "Hey, dad, so glad you're home. Quick note about what happened while you were gone."
JULIA: "Crazy thing that I said."
AMANDA: "So—"
JULIA: The father hears this, horrified at the idea that his daughter may have to marry a horse, and so he kills it.
AMANDA: No!
JULIA: Yeah, I agree, Amanda. I think there are other ways he could have gone about this. He could have just sold the horse. There were other options.
AMANDA: Yeah, let it go into the wild! Right!
JULIA: So he, then, you know, I guess waste not want not, skins the horse and hangs the skin up in their courtyard in order to dry it for tanning.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: However, one day when the daughter is in the courtyard, the wind blows, it catches the horse skin, which flies off from where it was hanging, wraps around the daughter, and in the blink of an eye, both the horse skin and the daughter disappear.
AMANDA: Where'd they go?
JULIA: Great question. The father also wondering what happened. And so goes searching for his missing daughter for days and days and days. But eventually, he comes across an old mulberry tree. And in the tree, he sees a silkworm and just like has this moment where he's like, "This is my daughter."
AMANDA: Oh, man.
JULIA: Thus, his daughter, transformed into this silkworm, becomes known as the Horsehead Lady, because a silkworm's head, if you look at it, resembles a horse's head?
AMANDA: No, thank you.
JULIA: No? You don't want to look at that?
AMANDA: No, thank you.
JULIA: They're kind of cute. They're like vaguely caterpie-esque, I would say.
AMANDA: Okay. Maybe I'll really work up to it, but my first instinct, no, thank you.
JULIA: Okay, fair enough. So silkworms become associated with horses and this girl became known as the Horsehead Lady which made her the patron goddess of silk making.
AMANDA: Right on. Not two animals that I would expect to have anything in common, but that's really sweet. And it makes sense, too, to be, like, enveloped in a big cocoon, like, that is giving silkworm.
JULIA: Absolutely, absolutely. Horses also play an important role in lot of Chinese folklore as well. So in Journey to the West, for example, one of the main characters, Noble Steeds, is a white horse who is not actually a horse, but rather the son of the dragon king of the West Sea who is transformed into a horse as punishment.
AMANDA: Oh, damn.
JULIA: He also is supposed to, like, represent, like, humanity's morality and stuff like that, which is very interesting.
AMANDA: OH.
JULIA: Another type of horse in Chinese folklore is the Tianma or the Heavenly Horse, which are essentially just like very cool horses. They're usually winged. Sometimes they have dragon-like features, but normally, they're just winged horses. And there's not a ton of, like, mythological stories about the Tianma, but it is often referred to in poetry and in art, particularly during the Han dynasty. So it's probably like a little bit more metaphorical than—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —mythological in many ways. However, horses weren't always ,like, great and benevolent and all of that in Chinese mythology. One of the particularly interesting cases are these spirits who are, like, sometimes depicted as demons, but are also associated with horses. And these are the horse faces, which is different than the Horsehead Lady from earlier. And there is a horse face who is the, like, original horse face, who is part of a duo along with another figure called Ox Head.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So these two have the bodies of burly, strong men. And then as their names suggest, one has the head of an ox and the other has the face of a horse respectively.
AMANDA: Huh.
JULIA: Now, they feature heavily in Journey to the West as well because they are the guards or the guardians of the gates of Diyu, which is the realm of the dead. Sometimes it's translated as hell, but I think it's just like a general afterlife rather than being, like, a place that bad people go.
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: So essentially when someone dies, it was their job to capture mortal souls and then bring them for judgment into the afterlife. Now, they were also served as messengers for the god of the Underworld. When they appear in Journey to the West, Sun Wukong, who is sort of this trickster-y monkey protagonist for the Journey to the West. He has his soul dragged into the Underworld while he is sleeping.
AMANDA: And I really appreciate the use of the horse and the ox as the imagery here, because, like, I think of something dragging something against its will, it's going to be a horse and an ox doing the pulling.
JULIA: Or, like, just the idea of, like, the workhorse, you know what I mean? Or these animals of labor being the sort of messengers and guardians of this afterlife is very, very cool.
AMANDA: They're the beasts of burden—
JULIA: Exactly.
AMANDA: —pulling the plow of mortality, Julia.
JULIA: That is the phrase that I could not think of. Thank you for that, beast of burden. So while he is there in the afterlife, he is able to battle and defeat Ox Head and Horse Face, and then battles his way to the Record of Living Souls, which is essentially, like, scrolls or a book, where he crosses out his name and also the name of all of the non-human primates.
AMANDA: Oh, damn.
JULIA: So, essentially, so he can have this second level of immortality for both himself and also his kin.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: It's kind of cool, huh?
AMANDA: Very cool. It's like, "Oh, uh, yeah, I just have access to the Book of Life for a second." It's like when I tried to hack into our grade database in elementary school and I was like, "Uh, what if I just change all the grades the way I want them to be? Like, is that fine? No one will know."
JULIA: I think they haven't changed the password for the administration in years. So—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —Amanda, being a hacker back in the '90s when that was cool.
AMANDA: I already have nay, Julia, so I made no changes.
JULIA: Proud of you. Proud of you. So, obviously, China is not the only region that has horse folklore. Also, this is a total aside, but I was like, "So, like, you know, this place has horses and this place has horses. How did, like, the spread of horses happen? When did we start domesticating horses?" And then I went down a whole rabbit hole with that. It is honestly so impressive how long so many cultures have had horses and how long ago we domesticated them. Do you want to take a guess as to, like, when we most likely domesticated horses?
AMANDA: Uh, I don't have a great sense of human development on this time frame. So—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —let me say, like, I don't know, 8000 BCE?
JULIA: Okay, a little early, a little early for us.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: So biologists and anthropologists think that humans probably domesticated horses in Central Asia before 3500 BCE.
AMANDA: Okay. That's still so early, like when is the oldest pyramid? It must be similar.
JULIA: Yeah, so this is about a thousand years before the oldest pyramid in Egypt.
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: We have that and then about 1,500 years later, by 2000 BCE, we have records of horse bones being found among human settlements throughout Northwestern Europe. So we know that we domesticated them in Central Asia and then it spread outwards from there to the point where we have records that we had domesticated horses by the year 2000 BCE.
AMANDA: So cool.
JULIA: So, I— yeah, I just think it's so cool that horses have been so important to humans for so long. It's sick as hell.
AMANDA: Horse girls.
JULIA: Horse girls.
AMANDA: Nyahaha.
JULIA: Nyahaha. We've been around forever. So in the previous Cursed Horse episode, we spoke about how Poseidon created the horse as a gift to Demeter, as you might remember.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: But let me tell you a story about a herd of horses from Greek mythology that I didn't mention in that episode, which are the Ravenous Mares of Diomedes.
AMANDA: Oh, shit, that's not a story I've heard before.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. So Diomedes of Thrace was the son of Ares, king of his own island, and his pack of horses were wild, uncontrollable, and loved eating some human flesh.
AMANDA: Oh, okay. I mean, typically I'll go with like a carrot, you know, maybe a sugar cube if you're old school, apples, oats.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Not so much the human flesh.
JULIA: Yeah, and mostly they enjoyed this diet because Diomedes would feed his guests who visited him to the horses.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: No oats, no grains, just people.
AMANDA: I mean, maybe if someone had recently eaten a meal, then there would be kind of a turducken situation of, you know—
JULIA: Gross. Gross-a-rooney. So they were so wild that they had to be kept tethered with iron chains to a bronze manger. And sometimes they were even more dangerous because in some stories, they are said to breathe fire.
AMANDA: Oh, wow.
JULIA: Fun.
AMANDA: Powerful mouth.
JULIA: Just anytime they exhaled, a little [blows]
AMANDA: I mean, horse breath is warm. Horses are warm, but not— they're not fiery.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. [17:29] So, capturing these horses ends up being one of the 12 labors of Heracles.
AMANDA: Let's go.
JULIA: It is his eighth of the 12. And there are a couple of versions about how he goes about capturing these horses. In one, it's a real kind of, like, show of force situation. Heracles brings a number of men with him to capture the horses, which I forgot to mention, they're also giant. They're not like inhuman, like giant giant, but they are very big horses, right?
AMANDA: Got it
JULIA: They are huge, they're giant, they are man-eating, they're great. But Heracles and his men basically raid Diomedes' palace, they overpower his men, and then Heracles breaks the chains of the horses and attempts to drive them towards the sea so that he can get them on a ship to bring them back to Argos. However, he wasn't warned ahead of time that they were man-eating.
AMANDA: Yep. That's important.
JULIA: And so when Heracles leaves them to one of his men to, like, take care of and load them onto the ship, so he can go and fight Diomedes one-on-one, he returns to find that his right-hand man has been eaten.
AMANDA: Oh, nuts, the horses aren't loaded and the man is gone.
JULIA: Exactly. So in his rage, he takes Diomedes and he feeds them to his own horse.
AMANDA: I mean, great.
JULIA: Appropriate, I think, really.
AMANDA: Love a poetic death.
JULIA: In another version of the story, Heracles does the task by himself and sneaks onto the island kind of, like, low-key, rather being a show of force. Worried that if he sleeps, he's gonna be found by Diomedes and his men and have his, like, throat slit, essentially.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: He stays awake until all of the men have gone to sleep and then he cuts the chains sort of, like, uninterrupted, right?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: He then drives the horses to a high ground and digs a trench to flood the plain where Diomedes and his men are sleeping.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: And when they try to flee in order to, you know, not drown, they instead run straight into Heracles, who then kills them and feeds their bodies to the horses.
AMANDA: In both versions of the story, the horses eat well that night.
JULIA: This is important, Amanda. There's one more version of the story and then I'll get to the point. Heracles actually targets Diomedes first, kills him, and then feeds him to the horses before he releases them.
AMANDA: Got it.
JULIA: And then when Diomedes' men realize that their king has been killed, they try to kill Heracles, but when they see that the horses have been let loose, they flee.
AMANDA: Yeah, they're like, "We know what the deal with these guys and we're not gonna mess around."
JULIA: Exactly, exactly. So the feeding of Diomedes to the horses is important in all of these stories because eating human flesh is actually the thing that calms the horses down enough to be handled.
AMANDA: Aw, they're blood lust, they should have to not be hungry.
JULIA: Exactly. It's a real Sekhmet situation if you think about it.
AMANDA: For real. Aw.
JULIA: So in the end of all these stories, Heracles uses that opportunity to bind their mouths shut when they are calmer, which is what allows him to transport them back to King Eurystheus, who was the one that tasked him with the labor in the first place.
AMANDA: And I assume with the horses and muzzles, they also cannot breathe fire, which—
JULIA: Hmm, true.
AMANDA: —would also be not ideal.
JULIA: True.
AMANDA: So in some versions of the stories it ends with them being allowed to roam the fields of Argos because they have now been permanently calmed after eating Diomedes.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: In others, Eurystheus tries to make them a sacrifice for Zeus and Zeus is like, "Um, no, thank you."
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: And so sends a bunch of, like, wolves and lions and bears and stuff to go out and kill them.
AMANDA: Uh, extremely rare for Zeus to say no to anything. Like, almost the number of times that he refuses a no from someone else, he also chooses not to issue one. Like, it— like that is not a word he either understands or says.
JULIA: Yes, no, seriously. I think he was just like, "I want nothing to do with those crazy fucking horses. What are you talking about?" And so just was like, "And now, there's wolves." And sends the wolves out to get them.
AMANDA: Yeah. Maybe he wants to be the apex predator and man-eating horses is too close.
JULIA: That's very fair. That's very fair. Now, Amanda, we've got plenty more mythological and folklore horses to talk about. But before we do, how about we grab our refill?
AMANDA: Let's do it.
[theme]
AMANDA: Hello, folks, Amanda here. Welcome to the refill where I would love to extend a super special welcome to Madeline King, [22:05] possessor of an excellent name, but also our newest paying patron over at patreon.com/jointhepartypod where you can get— uh, Julia and I just wrote up our very first monthly recommendation newsletter available to all paying patrons where we tell you all about the games and books and TV shows and music and just stuff in our life that we are enjoying recently. I shared a tip that I have been using to make more friends as an adult. So, hey, if you are anything like me, uh, that's a thing that you could definitely use. So you have got to become a paying patron at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. And hey, we even have a seven-day free trial now. So if you want to log on and be like, "Yeah, I'll see, I'll see. I want to check it out. Maybe I'll be enjoying it. Maybe I'll stick around. Maybe I won't." Try it out. patreon.com/spiritspodcast. And thank you as always to our supporting producer-level patrons whose support helps sustain this show, make it possible, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Hannah, Jane, Lily, Matthew, Rikoelike, Scott, Wil, and Ah. And our legend-level patrons, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Michael, Morgan H., Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. Now, folks, the Spirits merch store has been popping off recently. I don't have to tell you that we have had tons of exciting merch ideas in episodes recently with more to come, and we are working on some of those. But first, we gotta clear out some of what is left. So we are having a sale on all of our stickers and buttons over on the Spirits merch store, spiritspodcast.com/merch, where you can also pick up the brand-new ghost cat sticker and button that we made. I know y'all love buttons out there. I'm breaking out my denim jacket again for the spring. I'm in my button and my pin era .And hey, buttons, super affordable, affordable for us to make, affordable for you to buy. And I'm so excited to bring you more buttons than ever this year. All right, check it out, spiritspodcast.com/merch. There is always something new and exciting and educational and awe-inspiring coming out from Multitude every dang week. And if you have not yet checked out Pale Blue Pod, you gotta, okay? This is an astronomy podcast for people who are overwhelmed by the universe, but want to be its friend. Where astrophysicist Dr. Moiya McTier and a new guest each week demystify space one topic at a time. You'll learn about things like black holes, but also the instruments and telescopes that we use in order to learn about space. Dr. McTier went to NASA, the Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland. Damn, that's cool. And, uh, hey, is bringing you an episode from NASA very soon. So cool. So check out Pale Blue Pod in your podcast app now. New episodes every Monday, wherever you listen. We are sponsored this week by Tempo. Tempo can help you get your nutrients met in a way that does not take all of your energy for the day, but they're delicious, fast, and specifically dietitian-tailored meals made with real ingredients. Something I really struggle with is getting enough protein. My favorite foods are fruit and bread, and none of those have, uh, as much protein in it as I need for the day. So I really appreciate that Tempo, which is a weekly delivery service that delivers chef-crafted meals from a dietitian-approved menu fresh to your door, has very well portioned lunches and dinners that also tell me how much protein is in it. You can also even check off sort of, like, different options. You can select from different varieties of meals. So I choose the protein-packed meals, but you can also get carb or calorie conscious ones and fiber rich. I am almost caring about fiber years old, folks. And I'm very glad to know that Tempo is there for me.
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JULIA: Hey, it's Julia. I really love cooking and I really love getting to spend time in the kitchen making, like, interesting and complex meals. And I would do that every day if I could, but sometimes my schedule simply does not allow it. And on those nights where I need to throw some dinner together but I do not have time, I rely on Marley Spoon. Something that I really love about Marley Spoon is that it actually adapts with you. Some nights, you can cook. Some nights, you can just heat stuff. Some nights, you just need dinner done fast, and they have options for all of those. So the meals fit your schedule, not the other way around. And I also love that they give you over a 100 recipes to choose from each week. We're talking comforting classics like chicken milanese with a cucumber-arugula salad to fresh, balanced dishes like a Everything Bagel Salmon with truffle, chive, potatoes, and green beans. One of my recent meals from Marley Spoon was their Harissa-spiced steak. I had roasted parsnips and green beans. It was incredible. Now this new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley Spoon. Head to marleyspoon.com/offer/spirits for up to 25 free meals. That's right, up to 25 free meals with Marley Spoon. That's marleyspoon, M-A-R-L-E-Y-S-P-O-O-N, .com/offer/spirits for up to 25 free meals.
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AMANDA: And now, let's get back to the show.
[theme]
JULIA: Amanda, we are back and have you ever heard of the Horse's Neck cocktail?
AMANDA: Sure haven't, no. Is this— Julia, is this, uh, an invention of our man, the pervert, Washington Irving?
JULIA: It is not. It is not.
AMANDA: Is he into headless horses as well as headless people? Is he into horse stumps?
JULIA: No, I don't think so. I don't think so.
AMANDA: Okay. He's on notice.
JULIA: It's a Pre-Prohibition cocktail. It is usually most identifiable because of its garnish, which is essentially an entire lemon's worth of rind all in one piece. And then you, like, curl it up a tall Collins glass inside.
AMANDA: Oh. I mean, that sounds like a fucking nightmare as a bartender, but beautiful.
JULIA: It does sound like a nightmare for a bartender, but think about, like, what the Pre-Prohibition cocktail scene was like. They probably already had those good to go, you know?
AMANDA: True.
JULIA: Or they had one those machines, like, that you can use to peel apples, but they were—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —using it for lemons.
AMANDA: Family lore has it that my dad's mom, my grandma Aggie [31:05] could peel a potato or an apple in one continuous peel with just a knife.
JULIA: That's what I'm talking about.
AMANDA: And I mean, I do it with a peeler, which is much easier, but every time I do, I'm like, "Yeah, it's in the blood."
JULIA: I did it. I did it.
AMANDA: "I did it."
JULIA: So flavor-wise, this one is super easy. It is bourbon or, like, whiskey or rye, depending on what you like. Usually it's bourbon, though. Ginger ale and Angostura bitters. This is also sometimes referred to as a derby drink, as in it is a drink that you would have when you're at the derby or the horse races.
AMANDA: I mean, it sounds delicious.
JULIA: Now we mentioned in the previous cursed episode about horses, the horse Sleipnir, who is Odin's eight-legged horse, who you might remember, I'm sure you do, Amanda. This is the offspring of Loki, who gave birth to him in the form of a mare.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: We love that gender fuckery. It's great.
AMANDA: We do.
JULIA: Now, we have eight legs, but how would you like a seven-headed horse from Hindu tradition?
AMANDA: Honestly? Pretty into it. Yeah. Give me that, friend.
JULIA: This is Uchchaihshravas, whose name literally translates to either long ears or neighing aloud.
AMANDA: Yay! Loud-nayer!
JULIA: So he is associated with the storm god Indra, and he, as I mentioned, is a white seven-headed horse. He is said to be as white as snow, and he also can fly.
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: He is said to be the king of the horses, and is the prototype for how all horses should be. I assume minus six of the heads.
AMANDA: It's kind of like at the Westminster Dog Show where you know that they're, like, comparing every dog, you know, breed to like—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —the typical best example of that breed. I love the idea that this horse is like just like this one, but one head only.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Only the one head. If it's more than that, sorry, not really working for us.
JULIA: Seven is for the gods and the mortal is gonna have one head. That's totally fair.
AMANDA: I mean, that sounds fair. That sounds fair to me.
JULIA: He is said to have risen from the churning of the Milk Ocean, which is one of the seven oceans in Hindu cosmology, and is also where Amrita, which is the nectar of immortality is derived from. So essentially, he, like, came out of these foaming waves and when Indra spotted him, he seized the horse and made him his mount, which is a very honorable position. Like that's a big deal. Now this Milk Ocean is said to have given the gods many gifts, for example, the Amrita, but also the Goddess Lakshmi.
AMANDA: Whoa.
JULIA: Which really highlights how important this horse is to the general cosmology of Hinduism.
AMANDA: I mean, the— just the idea of milk as, like, the self-sustaining, the life-giving, the pure is such a common theme across so many cosmologies that it makes total sense to me that, like, out of that opaque, rich, like, you know, heavenly ocean comes this gift unlike any other.
JULIA: And then Amanda, one of the things that I was most excited to talk about in revisiting the Cursed Horse episode, which if you'll recall, really hearkening back to our first year and month of Spirits, our second ever episode of Spirits was about— do you remember?
AMANDA: Selkies and kelpies.
JULIA: Selkies and kelpies. And that really established us as being big fans of murder horses.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: That sticky murder boys.
JULIA: Now, there are quite a few water horses that are related to the kelpie, specifically from like Orkney and Shetland, but also I would say across the general Celtic lands.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, the first one I'm going to mention is the Tangie from the Orkney and Shetland islands off the coast of Scotland. So much like a kelpie, this is a seahorse. Usually, it is covered in seaweed, though it will sometimes take the appearance of an elderly man.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Now, much like the kelpie, these are also malicious little guys.
AMANDA: You don't want to pet those.
JULIA: Don't want to pet those. They will target travelers, especially young women, trying to lure them off the road near locks or on coasts before abducting them, drowning them, or in some stories, just eating them alive beneath the water.
AMANDA: You know, it is a highly relatable "I'm just a girl urge to divert from my path of, like, endless drudgery and walking from one village to another to do a probably domestic task," to just be like, "I deserve this. I'm just gonna pet the pony just once, just once, just once."
JULIA: I get it. I get it. You know?
AMANDA: The— you know, I deserve a little treat equivalent of the, you know, ancient kelpie.
JULIA: Yeah. And I mean, especially if you're in Shetland, where the ponies come from.
AMANDA: Yeah, the ponies.
JULIA: The ponies. Those are the ideal pony.
AMANDA: They're so, uh, pet-able.
JULIA: They are, they're so pet-able.
AMANDA: They're so cute.
JULIA: So the Tangie is definitely a boogeyman creature of sorts, though it plays a particularly important role in this folklore story of a man called Black Eric.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Who is a sheep rustler who was said to ride a Tangie, which helped him evade capture and would help him sneak into fields unnoticed, stealing the sheep in the middle of the night.
AMANDA: Huh.
JULIA: Now, the story goes that when he was finally caught, Black Eric falls to his death into the sea and his Tangie mount is said to continue to terrorize the countryside, abducting young women and feasting on them.
AMANDA: That's a cool myth. I like it.
JULIA: Yeah, it's pretty dope.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Not gonna lie. Like, imagine, like, a cowboy who's riding a malevolent water horse—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —while also trying to, you know, wrestle some cattle.
AMANDA: It's pretty good. It's like if, you know, Zorro—
JULIA: Pretty good.
AMANDA: Did Zorro have a horse? I feel like I have an image of Zorro riding a black horse.
JULIA: Zorro has to have a horse.
AMANDA: Yeah, like if— you know, if Zorro perishes and the horse rides on, continuing the, like, mischief, that's a great story.
JULIA: That is— that's tight, honestly. Like, genuinely really fun. Now, also similarly is the Nuggle. This is also from Shetland, though in some parts of the islands, it's also called the Shoeputie.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: I'm going to use Nuggle though, because Nuggle is a lot of fun.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: So the Nuggle is a specifically nocturnal water horse.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Usually, they are male and they are associated with rivers and locks as opposed to the Tangie who is more about, like, the sea and the sea locks.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: So they are also associated with watermills, which is interesting because one of the most distinguishing features of the Nuggle in his horse form, is the tail. So the tail of the Nuggle is said to be wheel-shaped.
AMANDA: Are you saying wheel, like a Kennedy?
JULIA: I am saying wheel.
AMANDA: Okay. Great.
JULIA: Uh-huh. Yeah.
AMANDA: Wow. That's— huh. How does that work?
JULIA: It's just kind of like round and I guess maybe it has some spokes.
AMANDA: Is it, like, sitting on the butt like, uh, an umbrella? Or is it like—
JULIA: No, it's hanging down.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Weird.
JULIA: It is odd.
AMANDA: Though, I guess— I mean, people braid tails into all kinds of shapes for, like, dressage and stuff, so, I mean, it happens.
JULIA: So what's interesting about the Nuggle is he is much less malicious than like a Kelpie or a Tangie, but rather is referred to as mischievous more often than not.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: They also never take a human form, unlike Kelpies and the Tangie, and almost always prefer the form of a horse, and in particular, a beautiful horse at that.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: They are described in various shades of gray, but most typically either a deep blue gray or a almost white gray. Not quite white, but almost white.
AMANDA: Wow, those are both beautiful colors for horses to be.
JULIA: Yeah, blue gray is, like, gorgeous. You ever seen a horse—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —that's like a beautiful blue gray? Ugh, majestic.
AMANDA: I don't think in person, but that just like— I want that.
JULIA: I know, right? So, Nuggles adore playing pranks, as I mentioned, and are not particularly strong or brave, is how they're often characterized.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: They would rather soak a traveler than drown them if they did manage to trick them into riding them.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: However, most travelers know to look at the tail to determine if a tame, unattended horse comes across their path. So they will often try to hide their tail between their legs, but that wheel-like appearance is kind of a giveaway that this is no true horse.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. That's really good. That's like just off enough from the shape you expect to be truly unnerving.
JULIA: I agree. agree. I really like the Nuggle. I think it's kind of cute.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: It's kind of adorable. Not going to lie. Which is a good comparison to our next one. So unlike the silly, little guy that the Nuggle is, we have the Scottish each-uisge, which is considered even more terrifying than the Kelpie. Now, this water horse is also found in the sea and the sea locks, and it takes the shape of a fine horse, but also a very handsome man, which kind of differentiates itself from the Tangie, which would sometimes appear as an elderly man.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, it is even said to sometimes take the shape of an enormous bird, which I think is interesting.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: Basically, in Scottish folklore, there is a shape-shifting bird that is called the Boobrie, uh, though some scholars think that this is based off of the Great Auk, which is a now extinct species of bird.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Oh, God, they're really cool, though. Have you ever seen like a taxidermied Great Auk because they are, like, old enough that they are extinct but also, like, extinct recently enough that we have some taxidermied versions of them?
AMANDA: Those ones almost bummed me out the most, like the passenger pigeon. I'm just like, "No, come back."
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. I told you my favorite birding story, which is every once in a while people on, like, birding Reddit will be like, "I saw a passenger pigeon," and every birders like, "No, you fucking didn't. Brother, that was a morning dove. Shut up."
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: It's great. It's great. So the each-uisge is particularly dangerous because it will trick men into riding it.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Which is a factor that a lot of these use, but this is like— if you think of the Kelpie, it's like you find a wet horse and you're like, "I'm going to ride this horse and then it drowns and eats you."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: What's scary about the each-uisge is you can find the each-uisge nowhere near a body of water.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: So you will be like, "Oh, sick, free horse," and get on that horse. And then there's no danger of it being ridden on land, but if there is even a glimpse of water, even the smell of water on the air, the—
AMANDA: Oh, shit.
JULIA: — each-uisge's skin instantly turns sticky and it makes it impossible for the rider to dismount.
AMANDA: Oh, my God.
JULIA: And then at that point, it will bolt for the nearest body of water where it will then drown the victim and then tear them apart.
AMANDA: That's really scary, Julia. I love a haunting—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —with a smell as we have covered on the show in the past. And just the, like— oh, baby, like the idea of water being a respite for travelers and a thing you are seeking, a thing by which you can way find or at least survive if it's a freshwater source, being actually your downfall is such a creepy inversion.
JULIA: Let me add one more creepy detail on this for you, which is when it eats you, it will devour everything, every little scrap of you.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Except for the liver, which allows them to float to the surface, which is the only sign that there was a victim in the first place.
AMANDA: Wow, that's scary and I'm sure it make some birds day.
JULIA: Some bird is like, "Man, I'm going to have no iron deficiency anymore." So, obviously, this is a carnivorous creature, but it's also not picky about its food. So humans are obviously its favorite, but it will feast on cows and sheep that roam too close to the water's edge as well.
AMANDA: Dang.
JULIA: Now, it is said that if you so desired, you could catch a each-uisge by luring it out of the water with the smell of roasted meat.
AMANDA: Hmm. It's like, "Hey, get some of this stuff."
JULIA: So there is one tale in which a blacksmith's daughter is the victim of the each-uisge and so he attempts to get revenge against the creature. So he and his son kill a sheep. They roast it on the shores of the loch. And upon smelling the meat, the each-uisge emerges from the lock and the blacksmith and his son ram forge-heated hooks into the creature, which manages to kill it.
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: Now, this is a fun, little detail. Uh, they leave the body of the each-uisge there beside the lock. And when they come out to check on it the next morning, there's no body left, just a jelly-like substance.
AMANDA: Whoa. That's a really good trope, whether it's like an alien or a magic construct that leaves kind of, like, a jelly-like ooze behind. I love that idea.
JULIA: I wonder if that's a good, like, reason why you might find jellyfish washed up on shore sort of thing.
AMANDA: Ooh. Fascinating. Yeah. All kinds of, like, slightly quivering substances come out of the sea and you're like, "What's that now?"
JULIA: That is true. There's all things quivering in the ocean. Things be quivering out in the ocean.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, in its human form, the each-uisge is a handsome young man, like I mentioned, but usually it's covered in, like, water weeds or its hair is full of sand or mud, right? Like, there's distinguishing features that you're like, "Oh, shit. I don't think you're human."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: There is a story in which a Scottish smuggler came across an each-uisge while plying his trade, aka smuggling some goods along the coast, and attempts to shoot the creature with a gun.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: So after firing twice upon the each-uisge, the smuggler sees that his bullets have no effect. He's like, "Ah, shit." However, he then loads a silver coin instead of a bullet into the gun. Sometimes that's, like, on accident, like he's reaching into his pocket and he pulls out the coin rather than a bullet. But sometimes it's purposeful, depending on the story because silver has a lot of folklore resonance.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Sure does.
JULIA: Loads the silver coin instead of the bullet into the gun and this does enough damage to drive the creature off, which it plunges back into the lock and allows the smuggler to escape unharmed.
AMANDA: Hmm. I don't expect to see silver as a deterrent to malevolent creatures apart from werewolves, so it is extremely cool.
JULIA: Interesting.
AMANDA: And I guess vampire is depending, um, but it is very cool, uh, to see it pop up here.
JULIA: Yeah, no, I think that happens in a lot of folklore. I think silver has that sort of like, "Oh, this is a fairy tale-esque thing," and silver is rare enough and valued enough that it is one of those things that they think will do harm to creatures that are not mortal.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So they're also really known to play kind of a long game in seeking out their victims. They will sometimes pose as simple, like, plow horses or work horses, showing up at farms, and they will allow themselves to be used by a farmer. They'll, like, till the soil and they'll pull the plow, et cetera, et cetera, right? And then when the farmer eventually attempts to ride them, because he's like, "This horse has done a lot of work for me. I'm sure I can also ride this horse." They will carry them off to the lock and devour them just the same as everyone else.
AMANDA: Damn. It's a creature that plots and waits.
JULIA: Yes, it really does kind of put into perspective the "Never look a gift horse in the mouth" saying, right?
AMANDA: Yeah, right?
JULIA: I disagree. Maybe you should be suspicious of this random horse that showed up to your farm, actually.
AMANDA: Yeah. Be like, "Uh, excuse me, please, you know, head onward and I'm going to leave a little bit of a snack for you and go on."
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: "Worst case, you may kill me. Best case, you belong to somebody else."
JULIA: I feel like it's one of those things where people are like, "I don't want to ask too many questions. I just want to like— you know, this is a good thing." Sometimes you got to question why the good thing's happening.
AMANDA: Yeah. Or maybe you don't look at it in its mouth, but you do look at it its tail and make sure that the tail is not shaped like a wheel.
JULIA: You gotta look at it and say, "Is this horse surprisingly wet?"
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Hmm?
AMANDA: If so, maybe let it go!
JULIA: Why is this horse so sandy or muddy? Hmm. Who can say?
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Who can say, really?
AMANDA: Was this horse recently a handsome man who was also submerged in water? Don't want it in my farm.
JULIA: What's interesting, Amanda, is that women play a important role in a lot of stories about the each-uisge. It is said that, particularly, it desires women as victims.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: There is a particular story about how a young herdess— I don't know if that's a word. Like a woman herder, like shepherdess is a thing?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So herdess is a thing too, right?
AMANDA: I've heard of that before.
JULIA: Okay. Great, that makes me feel better 'cause I was like, "Is that a thing?"
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: "Who knows?" So this young herdess is in the field with her cattle when a young man comes by and is like, "Oh, man, I'm so tired. I'm just so handsome. Can I, like, rest alongside you?" And she's like, "Yeah. I guess." And so he lays down, he rests his head in her lap, and falls asleep.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: And while he is sleeping, he, like, does a little stretch and the herdess sees that he has horse's hooves instead of feet.
AMANDA: [gasps] Scary.
JULIA: Scary. Amanda's worst nightmare, a man with horse's feet.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: And so this gives her enough of a warning to manage to escape before he can transform and try to eat her.
AMANDA: Dang. I know falling asleep on a lap is a strong opening move.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. It's like, "Hey, I'm just hanging out here. Can I nap in your lap?"
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Bold, bold choice.
AMANDA: I mean, she says yes, you know, okay.
JULIA: There are even stories in which an each-uisge will attempt to seduce a woman while she's alone in her home, like show up and be like, "Hey, is your husband home?" "No, I don't have a husband." "Well, hello, there."
AMANDA: Shimmy, shimmy.
JULIA: But in a lot of these stories, she is able to either, like, spot the mud or the sand in his hair or the water weeds on him. And so she will drive him away by throwing boiling water onto him.
AMANDA: Uh, fair.
JULIA: Sometimes if you're not flirting appropriately or if you're flirting in a way that makes people uncomfortable—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —I think we should be able to drive you away by whatever means necessary.
AMANDA: If you try to flirt with someone at work who can't leave, you deserve to have boiling water— maybe not boiling, but hot water, uh, poured over you.
JULIA: Like a hot tea, perhaps. Not enough to burn you, but like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —enough to be like, "Aah!"
AMANDA: A coffee that's had its lid off for, like, 10 minutes, so it stains your clothes, but doesn't hurt you.
JULIA: So I think this is really interesting because the each-uisge tends to try a more amorous seduction in order to capture his women victims, but it often ends up in most stories in the woman's favor because—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —she's able to use her wiles in order to defeat him, or outsmart him.
AMANDA: I'm always saying, "My feminine wiles, they make me so smart."
JULIA: So there's also one more detail that I think is interesting and is sometimes mentioned with the each-uisge. When the each-uisge is in equine form, they'll normally have a already, like, beautiful bridle on, like a horse's bridle. And so it is said that if a woman somehow manages to remove the bridle from an each-uisge and then replace it with a cow shackle, she is then able to gain control over the creature. It becomes hers and the each-uisge's bridle is said to bring the woman good fortune for the rest of her days.
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: It kind of, like, gives me reverse Selkie skin vibes.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: Which I think is cool and also a callback to our second ever episode.
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: Isn't that cute? Isn't that nice?
AMANDA: I love when we find connections among mythology.
JULIA: All right. One last water horse/horse for this episode that I wanted to mention is a Manx creature from the Island of Man, which is the Glashtyn.
AMANDA: Have not heard of them before.
JULIA: Yes, so the Glashtyn is sometimes referred to as a goblin, but it's more often defined as a water-horse and a shapeshifter, so it'll take the form of a horse, of a man, sometimes a mix of the two.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: So sometimes they are said to emerge from the water mixing with the ponies on the local farms and lands, and were said to cross-breed to produce strange offspring.
AMANDA: Yoinks.
JULIA: However, it is said that this stopped when the islanders began to breed their native horses with breeds from off-island.
AMANDA: Cool. Oh, my God, there's so much there about like, you know, genetic lines and being an isolated environment. Very cool.
JULIA: Yes. And, like, you know, there is a certain amount of isolation, but also those horses had to have gotten there somehow.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And so, like, how genetically different are they from the horses of the mainland?
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: It's very interesting.
AMANDA: Very cool.
JULIA: Makes me just think of those Shetland ponies. Oh, so cute.
AMANDA: So cute.
JULIA: So they are sometimes considered helpful creatures. Sometimes they'll assist travelers with crossing bodies of water, or they'll just, like, show up to farms and assist as, like, a farm hand before being found out for what they truly are. And then like, "Oh." And then run away.
AMANDA: I love that they want to work. It's like, what?
JULIA: However, more often they are out here trying to attempt to seduce women, not because they want to murder and eat them like each-uisge, but more they just like want to bone. It's said that they have a particular fascination with mortal women and so just like want to spend time around them, want to get to know them better, want to maybe marry them.
AMANDA: They're lover boys! Lover horses!
JULIA: They are. They are. So that, like, great curiosity is kind of what drives them. So they'll take the form of a man when they attempt to seduce women, though they aren't able to transform themselves entirely. So no matter how hard they try, they always have horse ears. So they'll try to hide those, but they're often a dead giveaway that the man courting the woman isn't actually human after all.
AMANDA: I think I could live with that.
JULIA: Just the horse ears?
AMANDA: Yeah, cute.
JULIA: It's kind of cute. Now, often when they are caught, they'll attempt to grab the hem of the woman's dress or, like, an apron or something like that.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Like this is a really common theme we see. This often leads to the woman either having to cut or tear away the part of the dress that they're grabbing or otherwise undress. Not completely, just usually like the top layer or something like— if it's an apron, they'll take the apron off, you know? And so they're able to make their escape that way. There is another version of this trope where the young woman will like— it's much like the sleeping story that we told earlier, where the Glashtyn will fall asleep on them, grabbing the hem of their dress or onto their apron or something like that. And then the woman will have to stay awake until the break of dawn, because as we've learned from a lot of mythology, the break of dawn banishes non-human creatures.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And so when the rooster crows, it scares the Glashtyn away, and it takes back off to its watery home.
AMANDA: I wonder if there have been any women who have had some, you know, amorous tumbling, uh, with a lover and maybe something gets askew, maybe something gets stained, something gets torn. We've all been there. And then they come home, they're like, "Narrow escape, narrow escape from the Glashtyn. I'm so glad I'm alive. Yes."
JULIA: "It tried to get me. It really wanted to have— I wanted me to have its babies."
AMANDA: "Yeah. And I was virtuous and I said no!"
JULIA: "I said no, you can take a part of my dress, but you can't take my dignity."
AMANDA: "Or virtue."
JULIA: "Or virtue."
AMANDA: "Right, dad? I'm sleepy. Yawn."
JULIA: "I had to stay up so late because I was waiting for the rooster to crow."
AMANDA: "I simply can't do chores today. Good night."
JULIA: "Can't do it, bye." All right, I could probably go on and on about more horses in mythology and folklore and legend. And maybe, you know, I won't wait nearly 400 episodes to do another episode like this again. Hopefully, this episode also goes out without any problems and the Year of the Horse has made sure that we are no longer cursed in this way.
AMANDA: Thank you.
JULIA: But if there is another mythological horse that you would like to hear about, or if you're just a horse girly and you want to hear more about these supernatural horses, let us know because I can probably whip up a part two or, I guess, technically three.
AMANDA: Uh, I think we may have to, just for the symmetry of it, get to four parts for the four legs of our beloved horses, Julia. So we'll—
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: —keep it percolating. But as always, folks, come hang out with us on social, we're @spiritspodcast or at spiritspodcast.com, because this is not just our anniversary month, but our anniversary year. And we are going to be stepping up the game, cantering, if not, galloping into the future with great stuff all year round. So we are happy to have you here. And hey, send this episode to a horse girl you love. All right?
JULIA: And the next time you come across a horse in the middle of the road, but it's really wet, remember, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
JULIA: Later, Satyrs.
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