Wholesome Urban Legends w/ Ronald Young Jr.
/Sometimes we have a guest who just does not want to be scared! That’s why we’re breaking out some incredible yet wholesome hometown urban legends to share with friend of the pod, Ronald Young Jr. Featuring kindergarten paleontologists, bottomless lakes of fire, and how to make pirates even scarier!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of animal death, war, and teeth.
Guest
Ronald Young Jr. is an audio producer, storyteller and host based in Alexandria, VA. He created and produces the podcast Weight For It, a narrative show about navigating the world as a fat person.
Housekeeping
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
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About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And we are joined today for a very special summertime, whole summer urban legends episode with friend of the pod, friend of podcasting, host of Weight For It and Leaving the Theater. It's Ronald Young, Jr. Ronald, welcome to the show.
RONALD: Hello, hello. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be invited, even though I'm a big, old, scaredy cat.
JULIA: That's okay, because, you know what? Sometimes we can have urban legends that aren't actually extremely scary incidents, you know?
RONALD: That's good to know. That's good to know.
JULIA: We try to balance things out. You know, there's the magical among the mythical. You know what I mean? There's magic—
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: —among the super, super scary stuff.
AMANDA: Julia, that's like— it's like a book subtitle. It's very good.
JULIA: Thank you, thank you.
RONALD: Very poetic.
JULIA: The first one sounded better. The second one was more accurate, I would say.
AMANDA: Ronald, we always begin by asking our guests what kinds of stories, urban legends, morality tales you grew up hearing. So tell us a little bit about how you grew up and what scary stories you were telling at sleepovers, if any.
RONALD: Listen, I grew up in the church. It was a Pentecostal church, and so the stories we grew up that were scary were about hell.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Bible stories about horrible things happening to people who crossed God. There's a story in the Bible about a prophet named Samuel who was walking one day, and some young people came out, and started making fun of him for being bald, and two bears came out of the woods and ate those kids. And of course, they were like, "That's why you don't disrespect the preacher." And I was like,
"Nah, you're right. That's—" because I'm like, I'm reading it. It's right there in the Bible. And I'm like, "Hey, yo, God, what was this story about? Like, what were we going for here?"
JULIA: Why the bears?
RONALD: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: Why bears, oh, God?
RONALD: Why bears? Why was it the bald insult that just put you over the edge?
Like, what was it there? So—
AMANDA: Yeah. Now, did you have a bald preacher at the time? Is what I have to know.
RONALD: Did he write this into the Bible himself? No.
AMANDA: Or on his first day, he's like, "Let me get ahead of any insults and just let you know real quick what happens if you notice me in this specific way."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Sorry, I just imagined him walking in at that moment and just pulling out the scripture and be like, "Hey, I gotta tell y'all something real quick before I got to [2:40] say nothing."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: "All right? Pastor White here and I gotta tell y'all something."
JULIA: You know what? He definitely, like, had that bookmark from when he was studying to become a pastor, where he was—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —like, "You know what?"
RONALD: Definitely.
JULIA: "I gotta get this down for next time some kids try to, like, you know, get all up on me."
RONALD: In seminary with male pattern baldness, looking for an answer in the word.
AMANDA: Yes. There's a support group, I'm sure. He's not the first to find it in the Bible and say, "Oh, thank goodness. Not just me."
RONALD: All right. Yeah.
JULIA: Now, I'm curious if Shakespeare got that from the Bible, and I just didn't put two and two together.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Have we considered? [3:12]
RONALD: Oh, is there— is that— does Shakespeare have a story about bears killing children?
JULIA: Yeah, there's, like, a famous line where it's like— what's the word they would use for exit, Amanda?
AMANDA: Exeunt.
JULIA: "Exeunt, pursued by bear." And I can't remember which. I think it's a Winter's Tale. I'm not sure.
RONALD: Hmm.
AMANDA: It seems right.
JULIA: But it is like— the internet loves that Exeunt, pursued by bear, so maybe they got it from Samuel.
RONALD: I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised.
JULIA: Yeah. Yeah.
RONALD: It was Elijah. It was not Samuel.
JULIA: Oh, Elijah.
RONALD: I have to say that because— and it was Elisha spelled E-L-I-S-H-A, because there's also E-L-I-J-A-H.
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: This is important. And the biblical scholars that listen to this episode gonna be like, "He doesn't know what he's talking about." I do know what I'm talking about.
JULIA: I love that.
AMANDA: There are more than a few. There— the overlap of people who are very into [3:54] as a kid or currently, and the Spirits listeners, it's Venn diagramming. There is [3:59]
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
RONALD: I expect that, yes.
JULIA: Incredible. So besides the being pursued and eaten by bears part of the Bible, I always find this very interesting, because I think everyone has sort of— not everyone, but the different sects of Christianity have sort of, like, different interpretations of what hell looks like. What was hell for your church?
RONALD: Oh.
JULIA: A weird question I never thought I'd ask on the show.
RONALD: "Lake of Fire, where the worm never dies."
AMANDA: Nice.
RONALD: That's— those are the ones we look at the most which— I don't know. At some point, I started thinking about napalm and the way kind of like it sticks to your skin or, like—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: —stern all the way, it, like, sticks to your skin, which was, like, one of the images I started getting. So, yeah, that's how we looked at it. I think some people looked at it as like, "Oh, it's a horrible place." And you're, like, kind of in, like, a place, and it's like, you know, like— it's like a field or— you know? But I'm like, "Lake of nothing but fire just feels extremely terrifying." Also bottomless pit—
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: —which I was like, "Oh, my God. That would— I would hate that. No, I can't— no. Please, no."
JULIA: I'm just going to be following all the time forever?
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: Wow.
AMANDA: Hmm.
RONALD: Just keep going. Just—
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: —tumble, tumble, and I was like, "Nah, I'm good."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: "I'm good."
JULIA: After a while in eternity of just falling, you'd kind of get used to it, you know?
RONALD: If you were only following, but like—
JULIA: Yes.
RONALD: —what if you fall for a while, and then you fall into a lake of fire?
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: And then the lake drains and then you're falling again.
AMANDA: That's true, but then it's not bottomless.
RONALD: Yeah, exactly. Not bottomless.
JULIA: The lake does not have a bottom.
RONALD: No.
JULIA: However you can, like, I guess pass through it at some point.
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: Interesting.
RONALD: You, like, pass through it, and then you fall for a while.
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: And you're like—
AMANDA: Oh.
RONALD: —"Oh, this is kind of nice." And just when you're thinking it's kind of nice, it's lake again.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
RONALD: Like, that's how I imagined— I don't know, I've— I'm a church kid, so like, the stuff that— the way I've twisted hell to be, like, the most unimaginable box of pain that, like, contorts versus on your fears, is, I mean, probably proof that the doctrine works on me.
JULIA: Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
AMANDA: There's hell, but, I mean, there's also miracles, right? So I mean, how—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Urban legends—
RONALD: [6:05]
AMANDA: —are not always bad. We often talk about them as things that, again, teach us how to behave, and you're also rewarded for good behavior in any cosmology. So how was that present in your life growing up?
RONALD: So there was typically parables. Like we dealt with parables that we were either listening in that way or— and especially within the black community, there's always, like, stories of some sort of— it's— I mean, when you have a church community and a black church community, they go hand in hand in a lot of ways, in the ways that we, like, support each other, care for one another. But also, like, typically, again, it's the same stories of goodness we're hearing. For instance, the parable of the Good Samaritan, is literally just the illustration of being a good neighbor and what that is. And I've been harping on that so much in the last, like, five to 10 years—
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: —where I've just been like, "You cannot listen to this story and not realize that exactly who we're supposed to be helping is who you're saying we're not supposed to be helping." Don't get me started in here.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: But like, that's— we kind of grew up with those, like, kind of, like, you know, examples of goodness that are illustrated through these parables and metaphors.
AMANDA: Yeah, I love it.
JULIA: You know, I think that's like the duality of growing up in sort of an organized religion is, like—
RONALD: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —this idea of, like, there are so many good things here. "Dear God, I wish everyone who is saying that they're following this religion actually focused in on— and honed in on the good things that we should be following here."
RONALD: Yeah, I get— I think, recently, I've gotten to a place where I think about religion, and I think about the ways in which the devotion— like, for instance, I was driving the other day, and I saw a cab driver get out of his car, and put his prayer mount down so we could start praying. And I was like, "Now, that is devotion." That is real devotion.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: And I think that's— I respect that so much, and I've seen so many examples of that, like in Christianity, in Judaism that are, like, so important, so pure and kind. They have nothing to do with, like, oppressing anyone. It's just—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: —devotion to God, in the way that they see God. And I— it's hard for me to contend against that or say that this is the wrong thing, but it gets to be the wrong thing when it turns into "I need to dictate your behavior. Your behavior is not what I want." And I'm not talking about behavior that causes intentional harm to one another, but just like behavior of you existing as who you are is somehow a problem and I need you to change that, or you're not doing the right thing for my religion." I'm sorry, we have changed the entire podcast now.
JULIA: No, I love this.
RONALD: I apologize.
AMANDA: This is the podcast.
RONALD: Don't get me talking about religion, y'all. I'm telling you.
JULIA: This is what we're talking about.
AMANDA: This is the podcast.
JULIA: This is it.
AMANDA: I have a feeling this will come up as we get into the meat of the episode, which is us reading to you urban legends, and in this case, wholesome urban legends that our listeners have sent in from their homes growing up. Julia, can I get us started with one from Helen? [8:51] She/her, all about St Patrick's Day.
JULIA: I would love it.
AMANDA: Okay. This is titled Wholesome Family Urban Legends Roundup, and Helen writes, "In response to your suggestion at the end of episode 371, like the person who wrote in there and Amanda mentioned we had, I think, a unique St. Patrick's Day tradition. This all started with my kindergarten class, where one of my classmate's mom would come in every so often to lead crafts with the whole class. We were in a Lutheran kindergarten, so like any self-respecting Protestants, we obviously spent plenty of time on fun, non-churchy things, like this St Patrick's Day project."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "For this, we all made a little craft, which is a brown paper lunch bag with a drawing of a leprechaun on it, and little paper gold coins and such glued on the front." Anyone else did this in school?
JULIA: I think we did something like that, but I also am laughing at the idea of non-religious St Patrick's Day.
AMANDA: The saint.
JULIA: It's— the saint's in the name.
AMANDA: It's right there.
JULIA: The saint's in the name.
AMANDA: It's right there on the front.
RONALD: Yeah. Yeah, that's hard.
JULIA: It's tough, buddy. It's tough.
AMANDA: "The idea was that you leave this in your house overnight, the night before Saint Patty's Day, and the gold coins and such would attract the leprechaun. Even you can't successfully trap that leprechaun, he would ideally leave treats for you the next day."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "And so this one small craft project started a year's long tradition for me and my younger sister, leaving out our leprechaun trap every St Patrick's Day and make— waking up to, most often, some thin mint cookies left behind in the bag."
JULIA: Okay, I'm into that. That is the—
RONALD: Those are the treats?
JULIA: —I guess, yeah, the most green because it's mint—
AMANDA: Oh.
RONALD: Okay, the [10:19] okay.
JULIA: —St Patrick's Day cookie. I don't know.
RONALD: All right, I'm back. Okay.
JULIA: I also really like this idea of— imagine if every Easter, you tried to set a trap for the Easter bunny.
AMANDA: That's bad.
JULIA: Like this idea of, like, we are trying to kidnap and force these mythical creatures that are associated with these holidays, which are all oddly religious, but we're taking the non-religious parts of these holidays. And trying to be like, "And no one else gets it. The Easter bunny is not going anywhere once they go to our house."
AMANDA: That's very true.
RONALD: It's funny. Is it— isn't like the cookies out for Santa kind of built-in, kind of a trap format, too, if you think about it. Like—
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: —what— is he gonna eat cookies at everybody's house? Is the idea like you're enticing the [10:59] he's just having a snack. Like, what is this all— what is this actually all about?
AMANDA: I thought it was just a thank you.
JULIA: Yes. I always pictured it a thank you.
AMANDA: Like the tooth fairy is an equal exchange, right?
RONALD: Exactly. Fair.
AMANDA: A tooth for a coin. Again, crazy.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And the Santa cookies, or we left out carrots for the Easter Bunny, which was, I mean, I guess— because it was funny, you wanted to eat carrots. But just like a thank you for leaving behind the presents or the eggs or whatever. This is—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —straight up a trap. And it's like—
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: —you're ransoming the leprechaun for cookies.
RONALD: Yeah. This feels different.
JULIA: See, like, in my mind, the Santa thing is less of a trap because it's a little bit too real. The idea of like, "I'm trapping a man." Easter Bunny is acceptable because that's like— we assume a man-sized bunny, which probably—
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: —should not exist in the world.
AMANDA: No, Julia.
JULIA: Amanda did not like that.
RONALD: Yeah. No, I do not like that.
AMANDA: No. No, the Easter Bunny is a bunny-sized bunny. Are you kidding me?
JULIA: Have you not been to a mall at Easter time, Amanda?
AMANDA: Absolutely not. I avoid it as a rule.
RONALD: Y'all said that these were, like, not scary fables.
JULIA: Oh, no, I'm sorry.
RONALD: And you just said man-sized bunny, and that's strike one, Julia and [12:02]
JULIA: All right, all right. Fair enough. First strike card.
AMANDA: Okay.
RONALD: The two things jump cra— past the Ronald scary meter, I'll leave. All right? I'll leave.
JULIA: All right. That sounds good. That sounds good.
RONALD: You said man-sized bunny and I thought of Donnie Darko. I think that's what it was.
JULIA: Yep. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah.
RONALD: And I was like, "Huh, not that one."
JULIA: That's on me. That's on me. That's on me.
AMANDA: Yeah. Through the show, I have discovered a real like verging on a phobia of animals that are combined in ways I didn't expect. So like a centaur is okay, but—
RONALD: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —additional combinations of like hawk body, alligator tail, I just— I'm out. I'm out.
RONALD: Uh-uh. Stop. Welcome to strike two, Amanda.
JULIA: Oh, God.
AMANDA: Uh-huh. Okay, great. Well—
JULIA: We're so early. We're only like 10 minutes in.
AMANDA: —returning to the text here, Helen finishes, "I love this tradition. My sister did as well, and I guess my parents didn't find it too strenuous to put a few cookies in a bag late at night for us." Now, Helen, if you were raised a girl and in the Girl Scouts, I wonder if your parents ordered from you to help you get to your total and put that in a cabinet so that later they would have it for Easter.
RONALD: That is peak capitalism right there.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: The capitalism loop as you like to call it.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: We call that a win-win.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: I hope they release Frozen.
AMANDA: So after each of these, I'm going to ask, Ronald, for your review on the scary meter. This is two strikes out of three, I guess.
RONALD: Well, there's five strikes.
JULIA: Okay, all right. Fair enough. Fair enough.
AMANDA: Oh, okay.
RONALD: So you’re good. As many strikes as we need to get through the show.
JULIA: Sounds good. Sounds good. I feel like the text itself did not have any actual strikes in it.
AMANDA: That was on me.
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: It was more us causing problems.
RONALD: Yeah, yeah. That was outside of it.
AMANDA: Yeah. Yeah.
JULIA: Got you.
RONALD: So wait, I do a score of— what's the meter?
JULIA: Whatever you want.
AMANDA: Whatever you want.
RONALD: Okay.
AMANDA: How— let's say— let's do a wholesome ranking and a opportunity for pranks or mischief rate.
RONALD: Okay.
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: I would give this a three of five wholesome ranking.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Meaning that I would— this is pretty wholesome, I would say.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: And then opportunities for pranks or mischief. It's like a five, right?
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: Like, we could do so many things with that bag or like—
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: —or in order to— like what— imagine if they woke up and the bag was, like, full of holes, like all the candy was missing.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
RONALD: And then they'd be like, "Wait, what happened here?" And you just don't even explain to me, like, "Dang, that's crazy."
JULIA: You're like, "Wow."
RONALD: That's crazy, kids.
AMANDA: Like, ripped in half with footprints.
JULIA: That leprechaun got out. Oh, no.
RONALD: Yeah. Or something like that. Yeah. Like, "Ooh, I think he's in the house."
JULIA: "I think he's in the house." That's your own strike there, Ronald. That's your own strike there.
AMANDA: Yeah.
RONALD: Yeah. [14:34] myself. That's three strikes on us.
JULIA: All right. I have one, Amanda, that I think is very sweet and, I guess, not necessarily holiday-related, but kind of adorable.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: This is from Jess, [14:49] she/her, titled Magic Dino Bones.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: "Hey, Julia and Amanda, it's Jess. You recently asked for stories about parents keeping the, quote-unquote, 'Magic of Holidays' and other little things, like the tooth fairy. I have a story not from my parents, although my mom did a fantastic job trying to teach little Jewish me that while Santa may not come visit our house at Christmas, he was very much real. Good on her for keeping me from blabbing to all of my friends."
RONALD: Hmm.
AMANDA: The delicate dance.
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: "But this is a story from the lunch aides and teachers at my school. So I'll set the scene, kindergarten recess. We are outside at the playground, playing whatever weird games we liked. I remember a few different, weird versions of tag when someone spotted a little bone on the far side of the playground, off to the side of the mulch."
AMANDA: Uh-uh.
JULIA: "It was laying in a little rocky area next to one of the benches, and we were convinced we had found dinosaur bones."
RONALD: Okay.
JULIA: Again, kindergarteners, so—
AMANDA: Cute.
JULIA: —if you see a bone, the only answer is dinosaurs.
AMANDA: Right. Or like a cartoon ham. I always wanted ham—
RONALD: Yeah. Oh, my God. Yes.
AMANDA: —outside of Christmas. Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Is there any indication of what size bone that this was?
JULIA: Not yet in the story, but we'll see.
RONALD: Okay. Okay. Cool.
JULIA: "It didn't take long before probably five to 10 of us were crouched over the side of the playground with little bits of rock, trying to chip away at the larger rock to find more of these, quote-unquote, 'dinosaur bones.' The lunch aides were very intrigued to watch us dig. I can only imagine our teacher's dismay when we brought this gross bone back inside with us to the class. We did this for weeks. A few of us would just slowly chip away at this rock with tinier rocks, always under the watchful eye of the lunch aide. And then we did it again. We came outside one day to find more bones. Can you imagine being five and finding dinosaur bones right in your own playground?"
RONALD: This is chicken.
JULIA: "And then uncovering, quote-unquote, 'even more.' It was the best feeling as a kid. Now, interest in digging for the dino bones waxed and weaned, but it probably continued in some form for years. Every couple of months, we would go back and chip away at the rocks again, and never again would we find bones." Little sad that, like, it ends with being like, "And we didn't find any more bones."
AMANDA: I'm just picturing— I don't know if it was, like, landscaped or our elementary school just had, like, regular, like, unmanicured woods. I hope there wasn't a landscaper who was like, "Goddamn it. Like, again?"
RONALD: [17:35]
AMANDA: Really annoyed that his, like, decorative boulder was getting chipped at.
RONALD: What— if it was the same landscaper throwing down the chicken bones out there, or whatever bones they were finding—
AMANDA: From his lunch, yeah.
RONALD: —then— yeah. Then he got exactly what he deserved.
AMANDA: Maybe.
JULIA: All right, here is the absolutely insane ending to this. "After graduating elementary school, I ran into one of my former lunch aides and mentioned us digging for dino bones. She remembered it very clearly. What we originally found was someone's very gross discarded chicken bones."
RONALD: Okay. Yes.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
RONALD: All right. I feel good.
JULIA: "But when she saw how much we loved this game of being tiny paleontologists, she secretly brought some new chicken bones out before recess and hid them under some dirt and rocks."
RONALD: Oh, my God.
AMANDA: This is why teachers should be millionaires, if anyone is allowed to be millionaires.
RONALD: Yes. That's amazing.
JULIA: "That way we could, quote-unquote, 'dig' them up later that day. She was so impressed with how focused we were as five-year-olds. I thanked her for going above and beyond to bring a little bit of magic to a group of five-year-olds. The fact that almost 25 years later, this story still makes me crack up. Thinking about us all sitting there, chipping away at a rock for weeks during recess shows how much that simple act of hiding some KFC in the ground meant to us."
RONALD: That's amazing. That's amazing and sweet. And I— it immediately reminds me of a story of when— I was in second grade in 1992 during the first Desert Storm. And we had a group of kids, we had this big i— bright idea that we were going to dig up— we lived— I lived in Hawaii, to be clear. We had to dig— we were going to dig a tunnel from Hawaii to the Middle East—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: —to help the soldiers win the war in the Middle East. I read— this is 1992.
JULIA: Patriotism was weird.
RONALD: Yeah, it was weird. Back then, it felt like it was a good thing, that— all that, it was different.
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: But I remember at the time, we're like, "Yeah, we're gonna do it." And we're, like, digging and digging, until one recess, somebody— like one of the, like, adults went out there and they were like, "This is a hazard. You can't have a six-foot hole in the sand."
JULIA: "You're all three feet. You cannot have a six-foot hole. We cannot get you out of there."
RONALD: I know. It's just lovely to see kids doing this, like that's—
JULIA: Right?
RONALD: I love that, man. If you give kids hope, they're gonna keep going, man. That's awesome.
JULIA: Yeah. it's adorable. I love that.
RONALD: Oh, I have to rate it, right?
JULIA: Yeah, go ahead.
AMANDA: Wholesome and mischief.
RONALD: All of it is five.
JULIA: Five.
AMANDA: Five across the board?
RONALD: Everything is five.
AMANDA: Okay.
RONALD: Yeah, this is amazing.
JULIA: Incredible.
AMANDA: That's really good.
JULIA: I think the mischief in that case was definitely the lunch aide and not the children themselves, who were just like—
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: —"We're discovering. We are scientists."
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: "This is what we were meant to be." I love that.
RONALD: Good mischief is always— I— like, I'm a person who likes pranks in which no one is in peril.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Because I feel like the part of the prank where they're relieved that there's no peril— like, I don't like messing up nobody's house and none of that, but I like being—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah.
RONALD: —like, "Oh, no, you missed your flight." And they're like, Oh, I missed my flight?" I'm like, "Sike. No, you didn't." They're like, "Oh, man." There's this, like, little burst of feel good when you realize everything's fine. That's the—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: —best part of a prank for me, so—
JULIA: Hell yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah. Predicated by a stomach dropping—
RONALD: Correct.
AMANDA: —you know, earth-shattering—
RONALD: Yes.
AMANDA: —moment where you think everything is wrong.
JULIA: Yeah. Like a roller coaster.
RONALD: First, I have to ruin your life, and then I could fix it.
JULIA: Hmm. If only it was so easy, you know, in general.
RONALD: I know.
JULIA: In life.
AMANDA: Speaking of the peril shot and the relief chaser, Julia, let's pop into the kitchen for a quick refill.
JULIA: Let's go.
[theme]
JULIA: Hey, this is Julia, and welcome to the refill. Thank you so much to our newest patrons, RussJK72 and Gizemli. You can support us by going to patreon.com/spiritspodcast to get some cool rewards, like ad-free episodes, recipe cards for every single episode, and so much more, including bonus urban legends episodes each and every month. Also, you can join the ranks of our supporting producer-level patrons like Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Hannah, Lily, Matthew, Rikoelike, Scott, and Wil. And of course, our legend-level patrons, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Michael, Morgan H., Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. Go check that all out by going to patreon.com/spiritspodcast. And hey, if you like Spirits, you probably like a lot of the other shows that Multitude makes, so you can help us by filling out our summer survey. You can help shape the future of Multitude by doing our annual summer survey. And listen, we take your opinion seriously. Past surveys have helped us decide what kind of shows we wanted to make at Multitude, what kind of merch to make, where to tour, all kinds of things. So we want you to make your voice heard. Plus, and this is just a little incentive for you, every survey ends with a collage of a bunch of the pets that are a part of Multitude. So you do not want to miss this year's new additions. There are some cute ones that you haven't seen in previous years. So please take 10 minutes at the most to help us out. Go to multitude.productions/survey now. That is multitude.productions/survey. And hey, thanks so much for taking the time. This episode is sponsored by Warby Parker. And listen, I, for a really long time, didn't wear glasses, because, honestly, the process of going through, trying to buy glasses, was frustrating, and expensive, and not enjoyable. But Warby Parker changed all of that for me. Warby Parker is high-quality glasses. They make everything so much easier. Warby Parker offers everything that you need for happier eyes. They have not only regular eyeglasses, but also sunglasses and contact lenses, and they actually offer eye exams, which is great. You can shop with them online, at home, and in stores. Warby Parker has over 300 retail locations across the US and Canada, where you can get styled by one of their friendly expert advisors. When I want to get glasses, and I recently went to Warby Parker with my husband, we went to the store at our local mall, and we had an amazing time. And everyone was so, so helpful when we got there. It was really fun to try everything on. But I've also done their online try-on program as well, and it really does help kind of narrow down what I want to wear and what I think is going to look good on me. And Warby Parker is affordable. Warby Parker glasses start at $95 and include prescription lenses with anti-reflective, scratch resistant coatings. And many Warby Parker locations offer comprehensive eye exams starting at $85. You can add a pair and save $15 when you purchase two or more prescription glasses or sunglasses. And this offer is available both for the at home and in-stores purchases, free shipping and 30-day returns. I love Warby Parker. I love my glasses. Jake has Warby Parker glasses as well, and I think they're a fantastic way to get stylish and affordable glasses. And as a reminder, Warby Parker has over 300 plus locations to help you find your next pair of glasses. You can also head over to warbyparker.com/spirits right now to try on any pair virtually. That's warbyparker.com/spirits. warbyparker.com/spirits. And now, let's get back to the show.
[theme]
JULIA: We are back. And, Ronald, one of the things we love to ask our guests is, what have you been enjoying drinking lately? Whether that is cocktails, mocktails, coffee creations. I'm partial to a seltzer or a lemonade for this time of year, but what has been your cup of tea? Metaphorically or maybe literally. I don't know.
RONALD: Okay. So there— I'm gonna take in a little journey.
JULIA: Ooh.
RONALD: I didn't start drinking coffee until I was, like, a fully grown adult. I mean, like—
JULIA: Same.
RONALD: —well, into my 30s. And I— and actually, I feel good about when I started, because there was— like, it was— there was a way I was living my life before 30 and after 30, where it was just like coffee was unnecessary, if you will.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: But now, it feels like there's some sort of contemplative ritual about drinking a cup of coffee in the morning, and—
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: —I used to pair it with reading a book. And it just— I felt so like bohemian and cool and smart. And I used to get terrible beans from a— we'll just say, a chain that I don't like to talk about.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: So I have personal [26:21] on against them.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Now, for a second, I did picture terrible beans as a health condition that I was really worried about.
JULIA: I was like, "Huh? Okay."
AMANDA: And I said, "You got terrible beans every morning? Oh, my God."
RONALD: Terrible beans every morning.
JULIA: Your poor tummy.
RONALD: No, I— so I— there's a place that's near me. It's called Swing's Coffee Roasters, and they make some delicious coffee there. I like to drink it there. There's a park nearby. I like to sit there and I get my beans from there, I make myself a cup of coffee using a Chemex, and it's delicious. So that's my coffee drink. But if I'm drinking, drinking, I typically like bourbon, and I haven't had from this place in a while, but I did exclusively during the pandemic. It's a woman-owned distillery in Washington, DC called Republic Restoratives. And you may have heard of them because they have, like, very, very— they do a lot of very— they put their politics on the bottle, I'll say that.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: So they have like a Kamala Harris bourbon called MADAM. I think it's a rye. They have one— a vodka called Fascist Tears, which I—
JULIA: Nice.
RONALD: —think— I just saw they had that when I pulled up the website.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
RONALD: I was like, "Ooh, I have to get some of that." And then there's a Dissent Gin. So there's, like— there's all these, like, little, like—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: —kind of cool embellishments they do with their distillery there. And it's very good. I've had a drink stuff from there. It's all very good. Good to drink by itself. Good to mix with all of that. So, yeah, I'm a bourbon and coffee and water guy. Those are my drinks of choice.
JULIA: Hell yeah.
AMANDA: What a good recommendation. I feel like— Julia, our Washington DC show was the best attended of the Rolling Bones Tour last year, so we do have to—
JULIA: That was true.
AMANDA: —hit up the distillery, see if they want to do a live podcast taping.
JULIA: That sounds like a good idea.
RONALD: That's amazing. Smart.
AMANDA: Could be fun.
RONALD: I'm in. I mean, I'll be there. Sorry.
JULIA: Oh. Hell yeah.
RONALD: I just volunteered, I'm.
JULIA: No, go ahead.
RONALD: The three of us.
JULIA: I love it. I want to shout out— I also only started drinking coffee during the pandemic.
RONALD: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: That's how I got into coffee, was just my husband was home and was making coffee in the morning, and I was like, "You know what? I might get into this? Who can say? I need a little, like, energy from all of the— being inside." And I want to shout out one of the local coffee places that I get my beans from, which is Nautilus Roasting Company, which is based in Huntington, New York, and they are wonderful. They also own, like, a company that does a bunch of, like, cool, grungy, punky local, like, art events in the area. So they are extremely cool folks, so shout out.
AMANDA: Can I just say shout out to bars that serve coffee?
RONALD: Yes.
AMANDA: The number of times that I want to go to a bar and have a cup of coffee—
RONALD: Yes.
AMANDA: —interstitially with my beers or before the beers.
RONALD: Yes.
AMANDA: Or at the end of the night.
RONALD: Yes.
AMANDA: Or my sober—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —friends want coffee. It's high.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: It's high.
RONALD: Yes.
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: Like, serve all of the drinks in all of the places.
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: Like just— like make it so I could get— yes. Agreed. Agreed.
AMANDA: I no longer have to choose between going and buying dinner and bringing it to the bar and wondering if their food's safe, because I can get a smoothie and a beer all at once.
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: There we go.
RONALD: It's all there. Let's go.
JULIA: You know what the thing is? Most good, like cocktail bars and stuff like that, will have coffee now, because everyone wants an Espresso Martini.
RONALD: Martini, absolutely right.
JULIA: And if it's a good one—
RONALD: Yep.
JULIA: —you're drawing the espresso fresh rather than, like, having it pre-batched or whatever, so—
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: Sounds like a huge pain in the ass for the mixologists.
JULIA: It is.
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: Julia, I have been enjoying recently this brand-new brewery from Long Island. You'd love to see new breweries opening in 2025, and this is called Jones Beach Brewing, Co.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Where my mom works and where we went to the beach growing up. It's in an adorable former, I think, like school house or house, house in Point Lookout, New York. They just opened their tasting room this year. It is so, so cute. And I specifically really like the Bathhouse Blonde.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Which is a blonde ale, very good for sipping a nice, you know, modest 4.9% ABV.
RONALD: Let's go.
AMANDA: You're not allowed to bring beers to the beach, but if you were, and if you did put them in your cooler backpack, in a koozie so no one could see, I would recommend it.
RONALD: I love that.
JULIA: I will say, Amanda, I've already seen these at my local beer distributor, so we'll have to go to the tasting room at some point.
AMANDA: Please.
RONALD: I like that it's a blonde. I've recently discovered— I thought I hated beer and then I— but I recently realized I have been convinced by the wrong folks that—
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: —IPAs were the only thing worth cooking. [30:39]
JULIA: Oh, no, Ronald.
RONALD: And I realized—
AMANDA: Ronald—
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: —everyone falls victim to big IPA. You don't have to be sad about it.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. It's not your fault. It's the toxic masculinity of the world.
RONALD: It is. No, it is.
AMANDA: Same, Julia.
JULIA: A 100%.
RONALD: It absolutely is.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: I want to pin this specifically on white dudes, because—
JULIA: Uh-huh.
RONALD: —black dudes are not out here drinking IPAs unless they're being forced to by white dudes.
JULIA: That's fair.
RONALD: Or being convinced by white dudes.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: But I tell you what, when I discovered a lager and ales and blondes and all of the— and wits—
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: —I was like, "Oh, man, this is— this— beer is way better than I thought. Like, I don't know why we're drinking this garbage."
JULIA: Now, Ronald, has anyone introduced you to sour beers yet?
RONALD: Okay. So sour beers—
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: —I thought I was into them—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: —but it just felt like they were a respite from the IPAs.
JULIA: They were your bridging—
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: —drink of choice.
RONALD: I needed something way more mild and way more like—
JULIA: Got you.
RONALD: —"Okay, yeah, that's a good beer." And I— and typically wits and blondes and—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: —ales, there's—
JULIA: Perfect.
RONALD: I was in the right place. But I appreciate your efforts.
JULIA: There you go. Listen, whenever someone tells me they don't like beers, I try to start them out with, like, a fruited sour and I'm like, "This is like—"
RONALD: Hmm.
JULIA: "This is like a beer. It is technically a beer."
RONALD: Yeah. Yeah.
JULIA: "But if you like more flavor, then there you go."
AMANDA: And I start—
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: —with, like, a 10% ABV Porter, because often, it just tastes like a dessert. It tastes like a sundae.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Hmm. That's smart. Yeah.
AMANDA: All right, folks. Let's come on back with an April Fool's wholesome family legend. This one submitted—
RONALD: Yeah, go for it.
AMANDA: —by Gretty, [32:03] she/they. "Last time I wrote in to you, Spirits, was to tell you about how I created a ghost in my college's brand-new theater, and accidentally brought it home with me from a job I was working. But after listening to the Santa urban legends episode, I knew I had to reach out about my family's Christmas traditions. Now, growing up in the northern part of the country, woods were everywhere. We were surrounded on all sides by trees that went fully dark when the sun went down in each of the five houses I lived in before moving out on my own. When we were little and a bit scared of the woods still, my mom would assure us that the only things out there were the elves."
JULIA: Uh-oh.
RONALD: Strike four.
JULIA: Damn it.
AMANDA: "Re Elf on the Shelf Fame, my mom built a story that all year round, there was a group of elves that would check in on kids to make sure they behaved. They would, in fact, report back to both Santa and mom."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: And as someone who stayed up late reading under the covers with a flashlight." Big same. "And would often choose to take my Nintendogs on walks instead of doing homework."
JULIA: Nice.
AMANDA: "The elves in the woods worked on me."
JULIA: Hmm. It's very like Krampus-coded, I will say. Like the little, like, minions of Krampus coming out are supposed to be a type of elf that then, like, report back and tell Krampus you did bad things, and then he comes with the sack. So—
AMANDA: Now, I don't like that this is all year round. That feels very—
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: It's very panopticon, very Jeremy Bentham.
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: Very carceral state. I don't like this.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Yeah. I don't like it. This is very— this reminds me of the 1995 hit urban film, Tales from the Hood, in which— well, you know what? Watch it at some point.
JULIA: Yeah. It's a good movie.
RONALD: Just watch it and enjoy it. Just know that there are tiny, little monsters at one point, and they're terrifying. And that's immediately what I thought about when you said, "They're watching you. They see you when you're sleeping all year round."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: No, I don't like that.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: It's a very fun one. Just saying.
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: Listeners, get at it.
RONALD: Oh, yeah. Tales from the Hood, check it out, 1995.
AMANDA: So Gretty [33:56] continues, "However, the best part about these elves in the woods was when on Christmas Eve, our family was sitting down for our big holiday meal. Now, just about as we were finishing dessert, my mom would suddenly say, 'Did anyone see that? There was a flash in the chimney."
RONALD: Don't like that.
JULIA: Classic.
AMANDA: No? Already? Rats?
RONALD: No, it’s—
AMANDA: You don't like flash in the chimney?
JULIA: Hard no.
RONALD: No, no, no. Keep going. I'm just saying—
AMANDA: Okay.
RONALD: —I don't like it.
JULIA: I don't like it one bit.
RONALD: I just want to express my dissent.
AMANDA: Yeah, please. Thank you. Orally for this audio medium, yeah.
RONALD: There we go, yeah. This is not a video.
AMANDA: "My older brother and I would rush toward the fireplace and the Christmas tree only to discover there were suddenly gifts."
RONALD: Okay, that's cool.
AMANDA: "Now, how did they get there? Well, since we've been good all year, the elves have decided to deliver one gift early, which are traditionally pajamas to wear on Christmas Eve night."
RONALD: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Oh, that's very sweet. I'm a big proponent—
RONALD: I like that.
JULIA: —of the, like, one gift on Christmas Eve, and then you open the rest on Christmas Day. And I cannot convince my husband to get on board with that. I'm like, "I just want you to open one thing." And he's like, "No, it's not Christmas yet." I'm like, "Ugh, you're killing me. You're killing me, Smalls." [35:03]So—
RONALD: It's so weird because, like, as an adult, I used to— so as a kid, I put all my hope and, like, thought into one day.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: And now as an adult, I enjoy the season so long—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: —that I— it's now in my mind, it prolongs basically from November 1st to January 1st—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah.
RONALD: —is Christmas season for me.
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: And so I'm like, "25th, 26th, 24th, 23rd, 13th, doesn't matter. Open a gift, buy a gift, sell a gift. Doesn't make a difference. I'm not going to be working any of this time, as long as everyone knows that."
JULIA: I feel that.
RONALD: So, yeah, I get that.
JULIA: I get it.
RONALD: Tell your husband to come talk to me. We'll get him to listen.
JULIA: I will. I will. I'm so like— I just— I want— once I get a gift for someone, I just want to give it to them immediately—
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: —even if you're waiting for the date, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah. The older I get to, the more tickled I am by the concept of an advent calendar.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Like—
RONALD: Hmm.
AMANDA: —open up a little door every day and—
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: —have a little, like, tea bag or—
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: —chocolate truffle—
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: —or pot of jam. Don't mind if I do.
RONALD: Yeah. Or candles.
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: So good.
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: That's an expensive advent calendar. The candle—
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: —advent calendar, dang.
RONALD: Well, no, Trader— Trader Joe's sells them. They sold like the—
JULIA: Really?
RONALD: Yes. Like, you know, the normal—
JULIA: Ah.
RONALD: —round Trader Joe's candles?
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah.
RONALD: They have smaller versions that they put in the advent calendar.
JULIA: Oh.
RONALD: I think it's something like 30, 40 bucks, which is—
AMANDA: Oh, my God.
RONALD: Like for the whole season. If you think about it, you got your candle— all right, I'm getting too excited. Let me calm down.
JULIA: No, no, it's fine. I like it.
RONALD: If you think about it for the whole season, you get your candle intake for the year.
AMANDA: 10% of my brain was just reminding myself how expensive the Bonne Maman Jam Jelly Advent Calendar was—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —because that is truly like an excuse to eat a little piece of toast every day. I mean, again—
RONALD: Yes.
AMANDA: Say less.
RONALD: I love that.
AMANDA: So pajamas to wear on Christmas Eve, so cute. Gretty [36:48] continues, "Through all the years, we've had friends spend Christmas with us who were surprised and delighted by the elves that would dart around the backyard and flash somehow into the living room during dinner. Now, as my brother and I are nearing 30, we are the ones who often say, 'Wow, a flash,' to indicate that it's time for us to leave the dinner table, to go to the couches, to have our night caps and our coffee."
JULIA: That's adorable. I like that.
RONALD: I like that.
AMANDA: "We still get pajamas from my folks every year, as do our significant others. And I hope this fits the wholesome vibe. Next time you're looking for a new pair of PJs, I recommend letting the elves know."
JULIA: Adorable.
RONALD: Oh, I love that, man.
JULIA: Very, very cute.
RONALD: I don't like that the elves are darting around. Darting is not a movement that I associate with, you know, wholesomeness.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: So if I had to rate this, it goes down to a two instead of a three.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Got you.
RONALD: But mischief, may— you know what? I'll give it a three and a half. We'll give it three and a half.
JULIA: Okay. Okay.
RONALD: Because I know it's not a four. But mischief, I give it a full six.
JULIA: Nice.
RONALD: Out of five stars.
JULIA: Wow.
AMANDA: Wow.
RONALD: Because we could really, really, really have some fun mischief-wise with this.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: You really could. Anytime there's a movement outside your window, you're just like, "Oh, that's the elves."
RONALD: Yeah, there it is.
JULIA: Easy. Yeah.
RONALD: Yeah. Especially if they're watching all the— all year long. I know this goes back to the carceral state, Amanda, what you're talking about, but like, man, you could really, really, really keep them behaving all year long. If you're like in June, like, "Hey, think about Christmas before I let you loose at this mall."
AMANDA: I know. My version of the elf that watches you for your behavior started on Thanksgiving and ended on Christmas, and his name was Barnaby.
RONALD: Hmm.
AMANDA: And he was signified by, like, ornaments that were sort of swaying like in the breeze or something, so that, you know, for sort of four week period to be on your best behavior, feels like it makes sense to me. Longer than that, though, I don't want that specter hanging over me all year long. I'll just— I'll forget about it.
JULIA: Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. I have a cute, little quick one, real quick here from Katrina, [38:39] she/they, titled My Mom the tooth fairy. Made some references to the tooth fairy already this episode, I figured, let's keep the tradition alive, which is, "In episode 371, you all mentioned the idea of doing a wholesome episode for April Fool's Day." We didn't do that, but that's okay. "So as the title of this message alluded, I grew up with a special relationship with the tooth fairy. My mother worked very hard to get me and my sister to believe in magic longer than our peers." I love that. I love the commitment to, like, let my child be as innocent and loving the world as long as possible. "Childhood was littered with little rituals, the right number, and placement of kisses before bed to ward off nightmares, chanting, 'Run, rabbit' to clear smoke from our eyes." I've never heard of that one before, but I really like it.
AMANDA: Uh-uh.
JULIA: "A wooden spoon under the pillow to bring snow and, of course, written correspondence with the tooth fairy."
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: "She would have us write little letters to accompany the tooth under the pillow, likely, which made the tooth easier for her to find."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Hmm.
JULIA: Because a tooth under a pillow is kind of hard to find. It's a little needle in a haystack kind of situation.
AMANDA: Fucking nightmare. Imagine laying your head down on your pillow, there's a fucking tooth like, oh, my God. Oh, my God.
JULIA: I think your pillows are too thin, Amanda.
AMANDA: Listen, my— I have a lot of my earrings and they hurt, okay? They're very soft.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. "So she would have us write little letters to accompany the tooth under the pillow, and in return, we would get a silver dollar and a return letter written in elegant green script on scraps of things found in our room. I remember one little roll of paper no more than an inch wide, dusted with glitter and tied delicately with a string pulled from my sister's blanket."
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: That is so magical. Oh, my God.
AMANDA: That's so cute.
RONALD: Yeah, that's really cool.
JULIA: I'm gonna cry.
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: "There was one incident where I lost a tooth in the ocean after getting accidentally elbowed in the face by my mother, and I was so upset that I wouldn't get to give it to the tooth fairy. So mom had me write an explanation of the situation and put it with a little surf clam shell as a surrogate tooth, and I still got my Sacagawea coin in the morning. I'm 24 now, and still have all of my tooth fairy money in a special piggy bank. Someday, I'll find the right use for my treasure."
AMANDA: Aw.
RONALD: That's awesome.
AMANDA: Katrina.
RONALD: I like that they actually got real money out of this too, because—
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: —as a kid, the tooth fairy thing that always got me, I'm like, "A quarter?" Like, it's— even as a kid, I was like, "It's a tooth, though. Like—"
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah.
RONALD: "And this should be, like, $20. Like, what are you talking about—"
JULIA: This is a part of my body.
RONALD: Yeah. Like, this is their— but it was hard. And my parents were just like, "We'll just give you the money. We're not— that's weird. Just give us the tooth and we'll give you whatever you want. Just don't do what you're about to do."
JULIA: Yeah. Be like, "It's gonna be so hard to get that out from you. Like, let's just—
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: "Just hand it to me. I'll deliver it to the tooth fairy. Here's your money. She'll reimburse me later."
RONALD: And they'd be like, "We'll give you money next week. Don't worry about it. Like, at some point you'll get money for— did you enjoy your dinner? Tooth fairy, enjoy. All right, great."
JULIA: I actually really love the idea of, like, parents being like, "Give me the tooth Here's the money. The tooth fairy will reimburse me later."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Yes. I like that.
JULIA: "And then I can write it off on my taxes. I don't know."
RONALD: There we go. Done. Done. That's how the world works.
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: Am I rating this one? This one is wholesome. I think it's a five.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Mischief? It— this is— like, I don't— I genuinely don't think there's any mischief here. I think this is—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: —like, very, very sweet.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: So, yeah, I guess I give it a one on the mischief scale, because—
JULIA: Okay, good.
RONALD: —this feels totally wholesome.
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: I don't understand how my scale works, y'all. So if it's inconsistent—
AMANDA: We're feeling it out.
RONALD: There we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're workshopping it.
AMANDA: Yeah. I also think it's very low on the mischief scale, because what could be more horrifying than, like, picking up your child's pillow and finding a tooth under it? And I know that the parents expect it, and I know that every parent and every person in the history of the world has had teeth fell out. But the more I think about it, the more freaked out I am. I don't know if you guys ever look back at your, like, youth and think, like, "How did I do that?" Like, I think about going to college for the first time. I'm like, "That was really fucking brave. Like, how did I do that? Damn."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: "And they do pulling my own teeth out. Oh, my God, it's really— I don't— uh-uh.
RONALD: And the way we used to wiggle them out, like, "Ahhh."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: "Like, yeah, it's coming out." Like we were just had faith that—
AMANDA: Yeah.
RONALD: —another one would grow.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: I know.
RONALD: Like, what?
AMANDA: I lost it with a chicken nugget once, and I still eat chicken nuggets.
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: Like, as an adult, that would traumatize me for life.
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: Did you lose it in the sense that, like, it was stuck to the chicken nugget and then you removed it?
AMANDA: That's right.
JULIA: Or, like, it was lost inside of you, Amanda?
AMANDA: Nope.
JULIA: No?
AMANDA: But that would have been swallowing my tooth, which I also have done.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Yeah, that feels awful.
AMANDA: But no, I— it came off in the chicken nugget, and my entire car was sleeping, so I had to take it out, put it in the cup holder. And then later—
JULIA: Oh, no.
AMANDA: —later, be like, "I lost a tooth also."
JULIA: "By the way, I know we just got to Florida, but I lost a tooth."
AMANDA: Folks, I want to close us out with a final story from Yan, [43:44] titled The Story of the Swedish Inland Pirate.
JULIA: Okay. All right.
RONALD: All right.
AMANDA: So Yan uses all pronouns, mostly they/them, and writes, "Ahoy, mates, to you both. I've been following the podcast on and off since you began, and is still so good."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "I'm writing in with a very local pirate tale, and it starts with my annual family trip to the southern part of Sweden. Now, I grew up in an urban area very close to Copenhagen, Denmark, and every year, during autumn, my mother's side of the family would spend a week in a cabin next to a small lake in the Swedish woods. Now both me, my sister, and my cousins are certified generation Nintendo DS city kids."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "And therefore, we all had a very distanced relationship to nature."
JULIA: Closest they were getting was going to the Safari Zone in Pokémon.
AMANDA: You're very right, Julia.
JULIA: You know? Yeah.
RONALD: Or Rainbow Road.
JULIA: Oh, yeah, that too.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: That too.
AMANDA: Yeah, I guess that is— I guess space is nature when you think about it, very true.
JULIA: Hmm, hmm.
RONALD: It's out there, man.
JULIA: It's out there.
AMANDA: "My grandmother has always been very close to nature, and was for a very long time a Girl Scout. Therefore, she wanted to remedy her grandchildren's lack of interest in the things she loved so much. But how does one go about that? Well, one creates an urban legend, of course."
JULIA: Naturally.
AMANDA: "And thus the tale of the Swedish pirate, Nodding Man Nosy was born."
JULIA: Great name. Wow.
RONALD: Very on the nose, but—
AMANDA: There we go.
JULIA: Hmm, Oh.
AMANDA: Well, Yan [45:10] anticipates our reaction by saying, "Now, why is there something about his nose and nodding in his name? Well, you see, this pirate is so old that his nose has started crumbling off his face."
JULIA: Oh.
RONALD: Hmm. That's strike six.
AMANDA: Yep. Six?
JULIA: I thought— oh, boy, I thought we were at five still.
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: You skipped five.
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah.
RONALD: It's whatever the next one was.
JULIA: That one was two extras.
RONALD: That's strike— yeah.
AMANDA: But we gave you a break to talk about liquors that also defeat fascism, so I hope I earned one back there.
RONALD: All right. Strike five, then.
AMANDA: "So when he's searching for a place to put his treasure here in Inland Sweden, parts of his nose would crumble off onto the ground and create a trail to the treasure."
RONALD: Oh.
JULIA: See, the thing is, I think a lot of times when we're telling stories like this in, like, the sort of like wholesome urban legends episodes, this is wholesome in the way that, like, some fairy tales are, like, kind of wholesome, because you can't think too much about it.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: You know, like the Gingerbread Man, like— and like—
RONALD: Humpty Dumpty.
JULIA: Humpty Dumpty. Like, you're—
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: —like, "Wow, that man's life is ruined because he's an egg." And, like, you're a child being like, "That man's an egg. That's funny."
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: "Eggs crack." And you're like, "Yeah, but if you think about the pain that he's going through."
RONALD: But also, Julia, there's no indication in the rhyme that he is an egg.
JULIA: Oh, no. Wait—
RONALD: We only know that from the illustrations. But if you listen to the rhyme, there's no indication in the rhyme.
JULIA: You're blowing my mind. No!
AMANDA: No!
RONALD: I'm just saying, all that says is, "Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Humpty Dumpty and— had a great fall. All the king's horses, all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." There's no indication that he's an egg.
AMANDA: And he already had to go through life with a name like Humpty Dumpty.
RONALD: Correct. Correct.
JULIA: That was where it all went wrong for him.
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: You're right. You're right.
AMANDA: Tough life.
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: Jesus. Who were his parents?
JULIA: Damn. And there's our clip for the social media. We found it. That's great.
AMANDA: We found it.
RONALD: Reaction.
AMANDA: Yeah, right? Podcast [46:59] millennials react. Okay. So crumble through and create a trail. Okay. "Now, my grandmother, being extra and a scout, made the nose bits to show us the trail."
JULIA: Uh-mm.
AMANDA: "My guess is that she used some kind of like flour dough or flour-water mixture that was dried up and crumbled. But—"
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: "—I'm gonna be honest, it was kind of gross."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "Every year my grandma put us city kids and our city parents on a giant treasure hunt through the forest, teaching us along the way how to use a compass and a map."
JULIA: That's amazing.
RONALD: Okay. I'm back.
AMANDA: Most of the hints were tied to some scouting skill, like tying knots or being aware of and using your natural surroundings, identifying moss on the north side of trees, et cetera. Now, the event got so big, we ended up having a pirate room in the cabin full of costumes, toy guns, and sabers. And for about six years, a giant group of us Danish pirates terrorized that poor rural community once a year."
JULIA: That was probably so annoying for the locals. They're like—
RONALD: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: —"Oh, the fucking pirate family's back for the summer."
AMANDA: Weekenders.
RONALD: And you gotta prepped for it, man. If it's only one day, I could be like, "All right, whatever. Give me an eye patch. Let's do this."
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah, exactly. Oh, it's so cute. "Now, it did a lot for how I feel about nature today, where it's a space for adventure and not inherently dangerous or gross. As an adult, I've gotten pretty into camping, slowly collecting gear, and I plan to go back to that area in the near future, and maybe bury a little treasure while I'm at it."
JULIA: Oh.
RONALD: Oh, that's cute.
JULIA: Create your own urban legend. I love to hear it.
AMANDA: "Yours, Yan." [48:30]
JULIA: Yay.
AMANDA: Cute.
RONALD: Wait, so is there actual urban legend of somebody that— we made up the nose crumbling. That's not like a real urban legend?
AMANDA: Grandma made it up.
JULIA: Oh. No, grandma said—
RONALD: Okay.
JULIA: —"I'm making up a man so that I can get—"
RONALD: Okay.
JULIA: "—these children to like camping more."
RONALD: Okay.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: No, that's cool. I don't like it still, but—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: That's fair. Fair enough.
RONALD: —I like the spirit by which—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
RONALD: —it was crafted. I think that's good. So I would give this a four. And in terms of mischief, man, that's a hard five.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Like that you had to make the nose crumblings and like— ugh, this could have gone in many directions, so—
AMANDA: Also, why couldn't the pirate be addicted to cookies and just like leads—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —a trail of cookie crumbs or bread crumbs or something?
JULIA: Well, any Nintendo DS city kid would know, Amanda, that, like, pirates are scary, and therefore, like—
RONALD: Yeah.
JULIA: You know, the crumbly nose thing—
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: —has to be a thing. Otherwise, if he was just like a cookie pirate, they would be like, "That's silly, grandma."
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: You're right.
RONALD: And—
JULIA: Hmm.
RONALD: —Cookie Monster kind of courted the market on liking cookies. That's true. That is true.
AMANDA: Very true.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Well, overall, Ronald, I know we hit the strike tolerance, which is— you know, it's very good to set and express boundaries. I commend you on that. Would you like to tell us anything about your work and where folks can follow you for not scary stories online?
RONALD: You can follow me on Instagram, Threads, Facebook, Letterboxd, all of those places, @ohitsbigron. It's @, O-H-I-T-S-B-I-G-R-O-N. You should listen to Weight For It, spelled W-E-I-G-H-T. You should also listen to Leaving the Theater. I just review movies as I'm walking out of the theater. It's very good. I enjoy it, if I would say so myself. And yeah, I just— I have a good time. If you like movies and you want to hear me just pontificate on them immediately after seeing them, it's a good place to check it out. But I'm primarily on Instagram and Threads, so follow both of those accounts, and thanks for having me. All this has been great.
JULIA: It was a delight. And you can find the links to all of the places that Ronald just mentioned in the episode description, so check those out.
RONALD: Awesome.
JULIA: And Ronald, thank you so much. This was a absolute delight. This was perhaps the most wholesome version of—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —a Spirits episode that we've done so far. So thank you for giving us an outlet for that.
RONALD: You are so welcome. This has been great. I— if you ever do another wholesome one, please have me back. This has been a great time.
JULIA: Absolutely.
RONALD: And, yeah, I'm glad. And next time, we're gonna drink.
JULIA: All right, we'll do it.
RONALD: All right? We're gonna get a bottle of Fascist Tears.
JULIA: Yeah.
RONALD: We're gonna drink.
JULIA: Hell yeah.
RONALD: Yeah.
AMANDA: That's basically every Friday night for me. I love it. And folks, remember, next time you look into your sourdough starter and see the face of a pirate king—
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: —stay cool.
JULIA: Later, satyrs.
[theme]