Episode 353: Your Urban Legends LXXXII - Most Haunted House Competition
/We’ve got goosebumps, which is the perfect way to start off the spooky season! We’ve got haunted libraries, a really scary visitor to a house, and a competition for whose house is most haunted.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of home invasion, demonic possession, death, explosions, illness, and murder.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends community gardens, especially McCarren Demo Garden!
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out Tell Me About It!
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Find Us Online
- Website & Transcripts: spiritspodcast.com
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Mischa Stanton
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And, Julia, I'm coming in with some late-breaking news. I have not spoken to you about this, that I get your true reaction here on the show.
JULIA: Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
AMANDA: You may know that I moved apartments last month.
JULIA: I did.
AMANDA: And the new one is— is almost set up. And something I have discovered about this new place, is that there is an all-black cat that sits on the fire escape and just, like, watches what's going on. Now, I've seen them on the neighbor's fire escape, not yet on mine—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —but I— I do. Is it bad that I want it? Is it bad that I want him or them, or her—
JULIA: No!
AMANDA: —to come sit and guard me?
JULIA: No, I love that. That someone's familiar, and the sooner that you get more familiar with that familiar, the better.
AMANDA: I hope so. I hope that she eats well. There are some other fire escapes with gardens on them. There are a lot of, like, doves and pigeons flying around, so—
JULIA: Now, Amanda—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —recently, we were talking about how you have, like, a fire escape outside your window, which is like kind of like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —Juliet balcony-esque I would call it, and we were talking about whether or not you—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —were going to put some plants on that fire escape.
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: Have you considered making your new best friend a little patchy catnip?
AMANDA: Oh, Julia. Yes!
JULIA: Win their favor.
AMANDA: That's exactly what I have to do. Okay, good. I wanted to run my plan by you before I take any drastic steps to, you know, befriend or sort of discourage local familiars, but this is perfect, and I would love that.
JULIA: Yes, you should do that. The owner of that cat might not be happy when their cat comes back super high from your apartment, but hey, man, then that's why you don't have an outdoor cat, anyway.
AMANDA: Yeah. I mean, she has no collar and this neighborhood, full of strays.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: So I think she belongs to no one but herself, you know, physically, but spiritually likely somebody's familiar.
JULIA: She might be just the spirit of Greenpoint. Have you considered that?
AMANDA: No, I have not.
JULIA: She might be. She might be like your—
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: — re-incarnation of a little Polish lady.
AMANDA: This is great, and I will absolutely keep you posted on my relationship with the sweet Polish cat outside.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: But in the meantime, Julia, do you want to hear about some local urban legends happening for our listeners?
JULIA: Obviously, I do. Also if you start to come up with a name for the cat, I want it to have like a very cute Polish name. Can we just agree on that—
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: —right off the bat?
AMANDA: Hundo p. I was already there in my brain. Great minds think alike.
JULIA: Excellent. All right. Tell me these urban legends, baby.
AMANDA: All right. This one comes in hot and fresh from Jess, westie.imposter our friend from the Join the Party Discord, who has some adorable dogs and makes great crochet. So, hello, Jess—
JULIA: It's true.
AMANDA: —and welcome to Spirits Urban Legends.
JULIA: Hello.
AMANDA: So the subject of Jess' email is How I got into Ghosts and Spooky Things, library edition.
JULIA: Ooh, yes. Libraries.
AMANDA: Julia, this one really spoke to me because you and I have spent some time together in archives and libraries, and you've spent much more time in those places than I have on your own. So, I'm really—
JULIA: I have.
AMANDA: —curious about your read here. So Jess begins her email. "Hey, Julia and Amanda, I'm listening to Spirits since 2020 when I got into listening to podcasts, and Spirits is one of the first I listened to.
JULIA: Oh.
AMANDA: I love your Greek and Norse Mythology segments because I love Greek Mythology, and Norse is something I need to learn more about.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Now, I thankfully don't have any super spooky stories of my own, but while combing across my computer looking for a file, I found photos from an elementary school trip I took to the Free Library of Philadelphia."
JULIA: Already off the bat, the idea of just like elementary school trips are extremely haunted because—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —you should not bring that large amount of children to any place, you know, with like three chaperones—
AMANDA: Any location.
JULIA: —and that's it. Uh-uh. No good.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Yup. And like someone's parent who's maybe making a day of it, have a glass of wine at lunch, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah.
JULIA: Oh, yeah.
AMANDA: So, this is Jess' story. "We went as a trip with our library assistance group," definitely the nerd over here who thought it was really fun to shelve books, and it was.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "We got an entire tour of this massive library that was first opened in 1894, but it moved to its current location in 1927. From the open to the public areas down to the stacks." Now, for those who don't know the stacks in libraries are massive book storage areas not usually open to the general public.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: These stacks happen to be in the basement levels of the library. Now, Julia, how many stacks have you hung out in, worked in, been around?
JULIA: Just a lot. I mentioned on the show before I worked at the Library of Congress in the Manuscript Division, which is basically 6 or 7 giant rooms of stacks. And it's not just books, because it's like personal papers for people as well. So they're in those kinds of big boxes of— I don't— I don't even remember what they're called, but they're like stacked boxes like you would stack folders in almost.
AMANDA: Yeah. Like an archive box or a banker box?
JULIA: Yes. I think an archive box is probably the best way to describe it. And I spent a lot of time in those because it was my job to basically, like, get receipts from people being like, "I want this box," and then go to the right room, and find the right shelf, and pull the right box, and bring them out.
AMANDA: Very good. NYU's library as well as the one in University College London, where I studied abroad, did have stacks that you could go in self-serve. And I always got afraid that I would become Flat Stanley, crushed flat as a pancake—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —if you get trapped between the stacks. Because sometimes they're like— you know, they have those sort of, like, triangles at the end that you can spin to make the move?
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Yeah. We didn't have like any sliding ones, I don't think, in the archive, but I can't remember exactly. It's also been, like, a decade, so—
AMANDA: That's true. "So these stacks happen to be in the basement levels of the free library, so, of course, there were ghost stories to go around. Now, I don't remember any particulars from almost 20 years ago, but I do remember I was enthralled. And as the kid who always had a camera on me, I was photographing this trip with my 2003 Olympus digital camera that my dad bought me on eBay."
JULIA: Love it. We'd love to see it. I feel like at that age, we were all about the disposable cameras, so the fact that you had a legit camera is almost like kind of impressive.
AMANDA: Yeah, a 100%. However, Julia, it was a bit broken.
"The flash went on and off whenever it pleased."
JULIA: Haunted.
AMANDA: "And that wasn't ghosts to be clear, just the camera."
JULIA: Not that you know of, certainly.
AMANDA: Not that she knows of, because—
JULIA: Not that she know of.
AMANDA: "Onto the actual reason I got into ghosts, I was snapping away all trip, especially in the stacks while the guide told us ghost stories, and then I caught it, or so I thought. There was a light floating at the end of the stacks that I swore wasn't there when I took the photo. And I also swear that the flash hadn't fired when I took that particular pic. It's not like it fired every photo, it was really intermittent and unpredictable. Now, as an adult looking at the photo, I can accept psychologically that my flash fired and it could be as simple as that."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "But at the time, that is what got me into all things spooky, and I'm kind of proud of 11-year-old me for thinking that it was a ghost. You see, after that trip, I went home and looked up ghost pictures and videos online. Those HTML sites from back in the early 2000s are seared into my brain."
JULIA: Oh, yeah.
AMANDA: "And from then on, I was convinced that ghosts were real, and I needed to know more, but without meeting one in person. Thank you very much."
JULIA: There's something about those old HTML sites where they have, like, the flaming text and stuff like that, and scrolling across the screen.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: That does feel very haunted in a way. I think particularly because I was probably one of those children that was looking at, like, you know, demon websites like on Buffy the Vampire Slayer and stuff like that—
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: —being like, "Oh, interesting." And now it feels haunted to me, because I was like, "What were you doing? That is not a legit source, my girl."
AMANDA: No, it's very true, and there were also— it was the era of, like, hidden shit on the internet.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Whereas now, you know, we have a lot more, like, privacy controls and, like, robust tracking. But there were lots of times where you'd have to, like, click a certain pixel in the corner of, you know, Neopets or like an ARG and find something new online. And it was totally possible that, like, for the first time— like, I remember the first time I went to a website and it, like, shook the frame, like they made it look as if the computer was shaking—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —from the animation, and like it was new. And not just because I was a kid, because it was the baby internet.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Like, that is— that is why. And so I just—I totally agree with you. Those things are inherently kind of haunted.
JULIA: I think there should be more websites where they hide hidden things on the website and you have to find it. Like, I think that is fun, and we don't do that as much anymore, and we should.
AMANDA: Exactly. So that is Jess' story. She said that she would also be happy to send us these photos. Always, Jess.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: spiritspodcast@gmail. And she ends with, "By the way, one of those photos does contain a picture of Grip, which is Charles Dickens' pet raven, who I guess got taxidermied?"
JULIA: It has to be.
AMANDA: "And PS, I looked this up after finding the photo. And according to temple.edu, Dickens' pet raven, Grip, gave Edgar Allan Poe the inspiration for writing his poem, The Raven—"
JULIA: Woah.
AMANDA: "—which would explain why it's at the library."
JULIA: That makes so much sense.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: I did not realize that Charles Dickens and Edgar Allan Poe might have known each other, that makes kind of sense to me now, but they just seem like separate time periods, and I know they don't— they aren't. I know they aren't, but—
AMANDA: Yeah. They're not that far apart. Dickens traveled extensively and, like, I don't think we understand that he was almost a bigger celebrity in his time than he is now.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Now, we're like, "Oh, yeah, one of those old guys." But he was, like, drawing crowds of screaming women when he, like, came to New York City for the first time.
JULIA: Oh, yeah.
AMANDA: So maybe his— his pet was taxidermied and Grip was put in the library. And then Edgar Allan Poe in Philadelphia is like, "Oh."
JULIA: Oh.
AMANDA: And gets inspired.
JULIA: Yeah. No, I like that. I also like the idea of them just, like, hanging out like a kind of—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —you know, mentor-mentee relationship. Again, I don't know—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —what the age difference between them is, but Dickens feels older.
AMANDA: Yeah, he was. And, yeah, like— like, there are so many American writers too where it's like, "Um, excuse me, Mr. Emerson, please like me. Excuse me, Mr. Thoreau, I'd really like it if you read my book." And it— it makes me laugh.
JULIA: "Uh, sir, we've been exchanging letters and I think I'm in love with you."
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah. Yup. Walt Whitman being like, "Um, I read this guy's book, and he's the next great American poet. Love, Walt Whitman."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: It just— it— listen, people have always been out here marketing themselves, and it makes me laugh.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. I've read those letters, I know what's up.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Well, that's incredible. I think we need more spooky haunted library stories to begin with. And now, I want someone who— and I'm sure we have a conspirator out there that works for that library currently.
AMANDA: Odds are good.
JULIA: And can write us and tell us some spooky haunted stories about the library, so—
AMANDA: Please do. And listen, Julia, it is back to school season, so I would like to put out an official call for the hauntings of your local schools, libraries, and whatnot.
JULIA: We'll take theaters as well. We all know you have—
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: —haunted theaters.
AMANDA: I mean, I guess gymnasiums, not that I ever go to one but, you know, I— I would like to hear about it.
JULIA: We've had some good, haunted gymnasiums. Do you remember the little kid with the red boots?
AMANDA: Yeah, that was a lot.
JULIA: That was a good one.
AMANDA: That was good.
JULIA: That was a good one. Now, Amanda, I have a chunker. I have a solid one here.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: And I want to share it with you now.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: This is from Mikayla, she/her, and she wrote, "Tales from the Half-Perched House, the Man and his Dress Shoes."
AMANDA: Oh, my.
JULIA: "Hello, Spirits Podcast. My name is Mikayla, she/her. I am a long-time listener hailing from the great chaos city of Philadelphia." Whoa. More Philly people!
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA: "I have been inspired to write in after sharing with my roommate, who is also a conspirator, something that happened to me in my youth. To be fair, lots of things happened to me in my youth and lots of things happened to me today. I come from a long line of brujas and healers both in Mexico and on the Lakota Sioux reservation. So seeing a shadow figure or hearing a disembodied voice is just another Tuesday. This experience always stuck with me though, and I consider it less of a story and more of a question without an answer. Who was he?"
AMANDA: Oh, is this good.
JULIA: "Everything happened 10 years ago when I lived in Connecticut. I was about 14 when my family had finally moved off the naval base. My parents seeking the privacy we didn't have, settled into the back corner of a sleepy farm town. Home was now a grand blue colonial, surrounded by the forest edge on the right and a cornfield on the left. It sat awkwardly on the side of a small hill with a long driveway that swept up at a great incline. Being halfway-perched made shadows jut out around all of the crown molding when the sun was high. Our closest neighbor was an eight-minute walk. Our grocery store, a 20-minute drive. Yet despite being secluded, it was not quiet. A small cargo train always seemed to be threading between the trees. Foxes made their presence known by screaming, and I found out quickly that the birds in the countryside were fucking loud."
AMANDA: All right. Mikayla is an amazing writer, and I also just want to sort of pause it, I don't think animals should be allowed to scream.
JULIA: Amanda, I think that's fair, but then we as animals would not be able to scream, and I need to scream—
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Oh, I—
JULIA: —all the time.
AMANDA: I'm— I'm including us.
JULIA: Okay. I— but I— but I need it. I need to scream.
AMANDA: No, I don't like it.
JULIA: "Plus," Mikayla continues, "My family came with three cats and a Rottweiler who offered their symphony of sounds to the mix. It was a comfortable layer of ambient noise that made our solitary home feel like it was bursting with life. I loved it immediately. I loved it even more when our family fell back into our typical schedule. My father, with a few years left of service, went back out to sea. My mother, a jet-setting businesswoman, had trips to some major metropolitan city every week. My older brother, Jake, always got home from school before me and he would hang around for about an hour to make sure I was fed until he ran off to play Magic: The Gathering." Big older brother feelings.
AMANDA: Big vibes. I— I feel like I can picture and smell and taste this environment.
JULIA: Yeah. "So that left me in charge of the homestead most nights. Well, actually, that left my dog in charge of the homestead. Harley was a trained security dog that made my parents feel better about leaving their kids home alone frequently, and I liked the company. The day it happened, felt different. I know it's a trope, but it really did feel like the will of the gods was pulling me in one direction, and something else, something darker was pulling me in another. Everything felt disjointed and dull as I made my way to school. Morning fog clouds sat a little too low on the road, dew lacked its usual glisten. In first period, my friend informed me that we had a half-day. She brought it up without prompting. I was immediately confused. It wasn't on any schedule. There was no announcements and we were in the middle of a holiday list week. I later confirmed it with a teacher who also didn't know why we had one. Her eyes glazed over when she talked about it. Her lips moved unnaturally."
AMANDA: No, no, no. This is fucked. No.
JULIA: "I decided not to question having less school."
AMANDA: I mean, fair.
JULIA: "Noon hit and I was back on the bus being ferried back home."
AMANDA: Okay. If the buses are running, then you know this is not a fairy trick.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Or if it is a fairy trick, then the fairies have gotten to the bus schedule, which is, you know, fair enough.
JULIA: Where you're the only one on the bus, where the other kids just staring all straightforward and—
AMANDA: I know.
JULIA: —not saying anything with a dead stare on the bus.
AMANDA: Mouthing in unison, "This is your stop, Mikayla."
JULIA: Oh, no. Oh, I hate that. "Walking up my driveway, I admired the view. Light filtered through the trees leaving small sunbeams peppered over the lawn. The sun was so high, it was uncharacteristically warm for a day in early spring, at least for the Northeast. I realized there was no breeze. Looking at my destination, I saw the familiar strange shadows that grew from every angle. One was darker than the others. It fell between the door jamb and the door. It was always darker. Many months ago when we first moved in, it would give me pause because my door always looked open. But having a navy father who was paranoid about safety and many animals who were staunchly inside only, meant front doors were always closed and checked thrice in my house. I remember shaking off my weird time at school, trying to be carefree by hopping up my porch steps. I remember how I saw the woodgrain of my foyer floor through the door jamb shadow before fully understanding what that meant. I stuck my hand through the crack first, hoping my eyes were playing tricks on me. The door was barely ajar, just enough to stick my fingers through sideways. There was no sign of forced entry, no scratches on the lock. I pushed the door all the way open and the hinges were so loud, it hurt. Not because they were exceptionally squeaky, no, we were in a newly built house, but because everything else was so quiet. No birds, no train, no dog, or cat to greet me. I could hear my own breathing over the pulsing of my heart going overtime in my ears."
AMANDA: Horror movie shit, Julia.
JULIA: "The comforting scent of home didn't come wafting out like I expected it to. A fun thing that I learned was that brains really like routines. Every fiber of me wanted to rationalize then return to pattern. In my brain, I had no other option and nowhere else to go, so I went inside. Walking through the threshold was like walking into a wall of static. It was goosebump-inducing, itchy tight feeling all over. I called out every single name I knew, 'Mom? Dad? Jake?' No one responded. I even went as far to list the name of my neighbor, the guy who built the house, and that guy the who came over around a few times last month to check the plumbing or something. 'Hello? Hello?' I called over my shoulder as I locked the door." I wouldn't lock the door even if it's like the— absolutely not.
AMANDA: But, like, I also understand that you want to just, like, do the routine and try to put things back to normal, and then everything must be fine, right?
JULIA: Right, right. But then— when everything is not fine, why would you lock yourself in there with something that's not fine? I don't know.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JULIA: Now as Mikayla goes into the house, listeners, conspirators, we're gonna grab a quick refill. I'm so sorry. There's so much more and I don't want to spoil it.
AMANDA: Okay, okay. Fine. Let's go.
JULIA: All right.
[theme]
AMANDA: Hey, it's Amanda, and welcome to the refill. I would like to recommend this week checking out your local community garden. Now, as much as I love plants and gardening, I hadn't actually been to the community garden in my neighborhood, and I finally went last week for a potluck and a volunteer shift. Guys, it was so soothing to water the tomatoes and pick okra, and hang out with other people who love plants in my neighborhood, so I highly recommend it. Welcome to our newest patron, Siri. Thank you so much for joining. And thank you to our supporting producer-level patrons and our legend-level patrons who support and hold it down for us week in and week out. Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Froody Chick, Ginger Spurs Boi, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Nathan, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah and Scott. And them legends, you know who they are. Arianna, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. If you would like to join their distinguished ranks and see hundreds of episodes where the bonus content, ad-free episodes. Listen, if you don't want to hang out with me here in the mid-roll, I get it. That's okay. You can go ahead and become an ad-free patron. Go to patreon.com/spiritspodcast. If you have been thinking about sending us your hometown urban legend, a creepy story you grew up with, something that you told other kids at sleepovers, or something that a relative maybe dropped in way too casual of her way at a recent family gathering, hey, now's the time. We're getting into spooky season. We are going to be doing all kinds of fun stuff for October here on Spirits, so shoot us your hometown urban legend. Go to spiritspodcast.com, click the contact tab, and you can write us an email there. Or if you want to include photos with your email or a voice memo, or anything else, you can go ahead and email us directly, spiritspodcast@gmail.com. We have so much going on here at Multitude and they just had Brennan Lee Mulligan himself of Dimension 20 and just the DND internet over on Tell Me About It, which is a game show about proving that the things you like are actually interesting. It's got real Taskmaster vibes. It is so much fun. I have been on it and they have so many guests you can enjoy, from Jenna Stoeber and Jeffrey Cranor to Janet Varney herself. Go on ahead and check it out at tmaipod.com or look up Tell Me About It in your podcast app. This episode of Spirits is sponsored by Wild Grain. This is the first ever bake from frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, fresh pastas, and artisanal pastries. Guys, they're so delicious. One time I walked into Julia's house, and she and Jake had just baked a Wild Grain box and I was like, "Oh, good God. This feels like home." It's truly so delicious. I love the croissants. I once had like a cranberry walnut raisin sourdough, which was incredible for the fall, and Eric loves their homemade pastas. So, listen, if you want something where you can have in the freezer and if you unexpectedly have company, or want to put together a fancy breakfast, or think, "Hmm, you know what would be really good with this? You know, fresh cheese or chicken broth, or whatever, fresh pasta." Wild Grain has got to be it for you. And now for the first time, you can fully customize your Wild Grain box, so you can get any combination of breads, pastas, and pastries that you like. If you want a box with all bread, or all pasta, or all pastries, you can have that. Plus for a limited time, you can get $30 off your first box plus free croissants in every box when you go to wildgrain.com/spirits to start your subscription. You heard me, that's free croissants in every box, which, low-key, are my favorite part of Wild Grain. And $30 off your first box when you go to wildgrain.com/spirits. That's wildgrain.com/spirits or use promo code Spirits at checkout. Now, you've heard us promote my favorite puzzle makers of all time, Ravensburger, on the show, but did you know that Ravensburger produces more than those classic jigsaw puzzles and board games? They also have now CreArt by Ravensburger. The ultimate painting by number experience. My grandma loves to paint by number. She has a tremor in one of her hands, and so one of the ways that she strengthens it and practices dexterity is painting by numbers. And she is amazing, she's so good at it. But the CreArt are some of the most beautiful designs I have seen out there. And when I'm trying to find her, like, new and interesting ones that aren't just the same for you that you see in the store or on TV, she has loved the CreArt that I've sent her so far. You can easily explore Ravensburger's wild selection of enchanting designs on Amazon, which ranges from majestic landscapes to adorable animals and everything in between, or at your local hobby and art shop. Go ahead, you gotta go check out CreaArt by Ravensburger today. And finally, this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I am definitely no stranger to racing thoughts. I'll often have trouble falling asleep at night or find myself awake in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, and then my brain is like, "Hey, here's a great time to take an inventory of all the people you've wronged and the things that you've done that are disappointing, and the things you need to do." And it's a lot. I kind of don't ever want to have those thoughts, but having them in the middle of the night, or when I'm trying to fall asleep, or when I want to get up, or, you know, get my day started is absolutely inconvenient and terrible. And one of the ways to kind of take some of the power away from those thoughts is to talk them through in therapy. And that's a place that you can kind of interrupt those negative thought cycles and find some peace and somebody to vent to and talk with, and kind of make up some strategies for what happens the next time that happens. I definitely do this in therapy every single week. And until I was able to find my in-person therapist who I jived with, and I got along with, and was taking new patients, I relied on BetterHelp. Without it, I would not have been able to access therapy of any kind. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, or you need to access it virtually, or you kind of don't know how to get started and want to dip your toe in the water, try BetterHelp. Get a break from your thoughts with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/spirits today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, .com/spirits. And now, let's get back to the show.
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JULIA: Amanda, we're back. What beer have you been drinking lately so we can get back to the story?
AMANDA: Yeah. I— I got my hands on another case of— of Genesee Cream Ale, but it's sitting next to me lukewarm because I need to hear what happens.
JULIA: Yeah, same. SeaQuench from Dogfish Head. Anyway, let's get back to the story.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Mikayla continues. "My house is wider than is long. One rather short haul runs unperturbed from front door to back door, rooms, and stairs branch off at its sides. Den on the right, stairs just off to the left. Even further to the left is the dining room with a large mirror on the wall that reflects the kitchen. Without moving my feet, I could see almost my entire first floor. The only thing that I could not see was the living room, just around the bend on the right side across from the kitchen. I gingerly peeked into other rooms with soft steps, still calling out mostly just for noise than for an answer. This was all for show. I could feel his presence. I felt him in my home, so true and non-human, at least not human anymore. I felt like one feels all raw, honest things in the pit of your stomach."
AMANDA: Oh, boy.
JULIA: "When you encounter something so powerfully real, you don't need to see it to believe it. He left the door opened and sat in the living room, waiting in his laid trap for something. For me, I guess. In my head, I imagined his hands crossed in his lap as he waited. As I walked down the central hallway, the static air got thicker. It was harder to move through as I got closer to the bend, but I persisted. On this precipitous of turning into the living room, I stopped. 'I don't know who you are or what you want.' It felt like I was trying to speak underwater. 'I'm going upstairs. Once I'm in my room, I want you to leave. I won't call the cops if you just leave."'
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: "I hoped my voice wasn't as shaky as I felt. My knees wobbled forward like energy was pulling me towards him. Plus, talking about cops in the situation felt so laughably small, as if cops would be able to do anything helpful against this thing, as if cops would be helpful in anything at all."
AMANDA: Fair.
JULIA: "'Okay, I'm going to my room now.' And I turned around. The underwater feeling didn't stop upstairs. Still, I went along as if on a timer. All the doors were closed, which is not how they were left that morning."
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: "I opened them all. In my parents' room, I found all four of my pets asleep in a row, eerily organized."
AMANDA: No! No, no, no, no, no.
JULIA: "I woke up Harley whose drowsiness gave me concern, but not so much to keep me from my task. I convinced her to get moving across the hall and into my room, door locked behind us, I checked. Pacing the length of my room like a trapped animal, the gravity of the situation hit. I was scared. I was crushingly alone. I didn't actually consider calling someone, even the cops because I knew my phone wouldn't work. I just told him where I was. A room we both know doesn't have an escape exit. What possessed me to try and make a bluffed deal with something who's very presence sucked sound and scent and feeling from the air. Once again, my brain said I had no other choice than to return to routine. Fine. I placed my finger on the power button on my TV. Step, step, step, step."
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: "Door unlocked, door opened, door slammed closed with enough power to write the world again. My house shook with life and suddenly, it was so loud. There were birds and breeze and everything all at once. I ran to my window, the view spanned edge to edge of my whole front yard impossible to be out of range. I opened the doors and screen to check just below, nothing, no trace of him, but I felt the echo of his dress shoes, so clearly men's dress shoes—"
AMANDA: Oh, God.
JULIA: "—on the hardwood reverberate through me. I don't know if it was more or less comforting that I didn't catch a glimpse of him. I sat in the corner of my room until my brother got home hours later. He questioned why I was home and chastised me for leaving the front door unlocked. In response, I asked if anything was different downstairs, waiting for someone else to find proof of the unwelcome visitor. He said no, and called me weird."
AMANDA: Classical older brother behavior.
JULIA: "I didn't tell anyone about my experience for at least a year, too scared to bring it up. What if I accidentally summoned the being again with words out loud? Time created distance and I wanted as much distance between me and the visitor as possible. On a rare night where my brother was home, I was dancing in our short hallway. It was the perfect runway for ballet. Restarting a combination, I walked back to the front door when a whisper of a memory called me to look upstairs from my place. Another asked me to take five steps forward, so I did. I stood there, staring. Now, I had a perfect view of my room, as well as I could see the shadow of my bag under the closed door. No doubt that I would be able to see feet if someone was in there. My brother came along from the living room, curious as to why I was standing silently in the hall."
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: "He said something like, 'You're radiating weird vibes.' But I was too focused on the steps he was taking. It obviously takes more than five steps to get from the living room to the front door."
AMANDA: Ah.
JULIA: "But it takes only five steps from this viewpoint to the door."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "Cold, real—" I literally just got chills. Holy shit.
AMANDA: Yeah. I— I'm like— oh, my God.
JULIA: "Cold realization settled over me. I started to share everything that happened. I was the last to leave in the morning, so the being/man/nonhuman thing must have come within the 4 hours that I was at school. He also must have gone through the whole house, checking every room and closing the door when he was done. Unless he magically closed all the doors at once, which I guess isn't outside the realm of possibility. I don't know how he corralled my pets, but took enough care to make sure that there weren't cats and dogs roaming around my lawn. Everything from the outside looked normal. Even the way that the door was just barely ajar was imperceptible from the street. But then why leave the door opened at all? Why not lock it completely? How long was he sitting on my couch for? What did he have to offer? And why did he, something obviously stronger, leave at the command of a young girl? And why, given that he could walk his dress shoes silently, did he leave in a way that made himself known? I do not like that time was spent staring at my feet in my room, but just—"
AMANDA: Yeah, me either.
JULIA: "—just how long did he watch me pace? Jake listened intently, taking everything in as I rambled madly in the hall. When I was exhausted of details and conjecture, my brother simply said, "Oh, he was here for me." It made perfect sense. On any other day, if the being had been watching the house for even a week, he would have known that my brother was always home first. The only time my brother was really home alone was in the 30 minutes before I got off the afternoon bus."
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: "Yet somehow, some other being, the hands of fate maybe, used me as a chess piece. The other question of who changed my school schedule and how was a thought path I didn't want to go down. The way my teacher's demeanor turned robotic and hazy when I brought up our half-day still, 10 years later, makes my hair raised."
AMANDA: Me too, dude.
JULIA: "And the most important thing, a big difference between Jake and me is that he wouldn't have paused at the bend and retreated like I did. Jake had always lacked hesitation. Sometimes I feel like I saved his life."
AMANDA: I'm convinced.
JULIA: "That is my story. I am incredibly curious on what you guys think. Who was the creepy dress shoe-wearing non-human man? What did he want? And should I be bracing myself for another run-in? Let me know if you would like to hear any other stories like how I met the Raven bride in a hidden cemetery, when my first date was crashed by tall shadow man, or my experiences as a creepy kid with Thomas, the undead. Thank you for reading. Stay creepy, stay cool, Mikayla."
AMANDA: Mikayla, you know the answer.
JULIA: You know the answer is yes, I want to hear all those stories. Maybe send them in separately as detailed as this and I'll read every single one on the show because—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —mwa, chef's kiss.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: Let's talk about theories.
AMANDA: Man, I did not see coming that the shadow man was there for Jake, because I think, you know, that spot has a vantage point to her room. Maybe he was, you know, dwelling in that spot even before she was pacing and getting worried. But it does kind of explain why he left when she said, like if she was, you know, what he was there for, then it seems like very little would deter him.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: But then why— why was it the half-day and she was home? Unless he, you know, got confused as to what school Jake was in, and tried to make it so that Jake was home for more time. I don't know.
JULIA: I think that Mikayla is implying that some other force sent her—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —home first to intercept this—
AMANDA: I see.
JULIA: —instead of Jake, which saved him in some way.
AMANDA: Okay. Better, better.
JULIA: Which sucks to be the chest piece of fate. Don't love that.
AMANDA: Yeah. No.
JULIA: Don't like that vibe. Also, the fact that she's like, "Yeah, Jake totally would have probably gotten taken by this thing, this— this creepy, like shadow intruder man." And I'm like, "Yeah, he probably would have. Oh, no. "
AMANDA: Yeah. I mean— okay. So it doesn't have to be nefarious.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: I'll say it slowly. I'm getting real— the magician vibes where, you know, there is kind of like a powerful force that's trying to almost like enlist or entice you to help him with some kind of mission that he's on.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And if you get harmed, then so be it. I don't know if, you know, if Jake was being like targeted, or haunted, or if he was more like an instrument in whatever— like, it feels like Jake is another chess piece in the cosmic battle and then, you know, some kind of protective force was— was helping Mikayla get in the way.
JULIA: Now, here's the thing, because I'm assuming Jake is the older brother in this situation, because he's getting—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —home from school earlier, et cetera, et cetera. And he's also, you know, going out and playing Magic: The Gathering for several hours every single day.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: That seems like— and I don't want to pass aspersions on Jake here. That seems like maybe a nerdy goth teen who—
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: —maybe got involved in some things that he shouldn't have gotten involved. Maybe a Ouija board—
AMANDA: Oh, I see.
JULIA: —maybe something more than that, and perhaps summoned a figure that was there to collect some sort of due.
AMANDA: A real like, you know, '70s fever dream of, you know, teens in the basement summoning what they shouldn't.
JULIA: Oh, yeah. Some real Satanic Panic around, like, Dungeons and Dragons but—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —in a more modern setting.
AMANDA: It's possible. It's possible.
JULIA: If I was writing the story, that's what I would write.
AMANDA: Damn, dude.
JULIA: Damn, dude.
AMANDA: Good story.
JULIA: That was a really good story. Mikayla, please write in more. That was great. I loved it.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: I— I haven't been so moved by a story since the mushroom caves, Amanda.
AMANDA: Yes, I know. Oh, my God. That looms large in my mind. But now, I feel like I might be driving through the, you know, autumnal countryside of New England at some point in the next few months, and catch a glimpse of a farmhouse and be like, "Oh, no."
JULIA: Oh, no. The— I think the worst part too, is like it's— it's a colonial-style house, but Mikayla stressed that it was like a new build.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So it's like— it's not like the land itself was haunted or the—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —house was haunted. No, I think Jake summoned something. That's my theory.
AMANDA: Yeah. Maybe part of the reason why I do want an old home one day is so that I can sort of write off any mysterious happenings, telling, "Meh. It's a 100-year-old farmhouse. I'm sure it's fine.
JULIA: It's probably fine, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Several families have lived here since it was built and that's probably okay.
AMANDA: No biggie.
JULIA: No big deal. No big deal at all.
AMANDA: Well, Julia, why don't we close out then with a round-up of Massachusetts haunting—
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: —sent in by S.W., keeping it in New England.
JULIA: I do love Massachusetts.
AMANDA: All right. This is from SW like I said, she/they, and the subject Massachusetts is Super Haunted.
JULIA: That's— that's true. Go on.
AMANDA: I can't argue with that.
JULIA: Go off.
AMANDA: "Hey, I'm a new-ish listener to the pod and I just finished listening to all of the Urban Legends episode to see if anyone wrote in about a few different hometown stories that I grew up with. I was really surprised to hear no one had, so here I am. One of the houses in my hometown is considered the second most haunted house in Massachusetts."
JULIA: Imagine the competition between your neighbors to be like, "All right, bitch, we're the most haunted." No, I'm the most haunted." And then you have to, like, take it to, like, a committee and they're like, "All right. That one's first haunted, that one second haunted. Sorry, if you're not happy with that decision."
AMANDA: Yeah. Like, I don't know if we've just all agree that, like, Salem gets the prize. And if everyone else is competing for, you know, second, third, and fourth, I don't know.
JULIA: I don't know. Who can say?
AMANDA: "I come from a family that has a lot of experience with the paranormal and I have a ton of stories from over the years about my own experiences, as well as other things my family has encountered. For example, there was my stint as a creepy kid for a few months in my childhood and the time I saw the ghosts of my grandfather in the basement."
JULIA: Well, only a few months is honestly pretty good for creepy kid vibes, like I feel like you get—
AMANDA: That's a normal phase.
JULIA: Yeah. Some kids have like, you know, two or three years of creepy kid and, like, some never grow out of it.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. "However, I wanted to start with the actual urban legends of which I have two."
JULIA: Heck yeah.
AMANDA: "So I go to college in the Berkshire region of Massachusetts, all the way in the Western part near the border with New York."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "Back when you guys did your 50 States Urban Legend round-up—" a real shout-out to the early days.
JULIA: Woo!
AMANDA: "You guys mentioned Hoosac Tunnel in North Adams, Mass."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "My college is right down the street and we hear ghost stories about that tunnel all the time. My first time hearing about it, in fact, was in history class. One of my professors actually brought it up because it was one of the first uses of TNT in the United States."
JULIA: I remember that.
AMANDA: "Prior to TNT, workers had to use gunpowder to blow holes in the rocks, which is, hey, way more dangerous to use."
JULIA: I think it's all dangerous, but some are more dangerous than others, much like some houses are more haunted than other houses.
AMANDA: "Well, in this case, the workers had to get out of the tunnel way faster than they later would with TNT. And if they didn't, you know, they were stuck there when the explosion happens, versus TNT has that like cartoon trigger that you can use once the workers are all away at a safe distance."
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. Makes sense.
AMANDA: "Now, unfortunately, I haven't been able to go scope out the tunnel myself as it is still in use today by trains. But I have no doubt that the ghosts who make their way over to my college campus and watch the exhausted tired students there have definitely tried to get in touch with me in the past."
JULIA: I want to very quickly grab this person's face and—
AMANDA: Yeah. Honey, don't.
JULIA: —say, "Thank you—"
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —for being smart—"
AMANDA: Yup.
JULIA: "—and not going to explore the haunted tunnel, because it has—"
AMANDA: Yup.
JULIA: "—active trains going on there."
AMANDA: Good decision-making all around. We're proud of you.
JULIA: We love smart choices. Thank you.
AMANDA: Proud of you. "My second story is back in my hometown of Gardner, Massachusetts. It's a small city in Central Mass. about an hour and a half west of Boston. Now, there's a house on the south side of the city, the one I mentioned earlier, called the S.K. Pierce Mansion, or as we locals call it The Victorian."
JULIA: I would call it The Spierce.
AMANDA: "It is a tall, imposing house that sticks out like a sore thumb from all the buildings around it. If not for the church down the street, in fact, it would look totally out of place with the houses and pizza places that surround it. Everyone in the city and the surrounding cities has grown up hearing stories of The Victorian. It used to be bright yellow with green trim around it. And recently, owners began to remodel it with the hope of turning it into a bed and breakfast."
JULIA: Okay. Remodel, though, don't renovate, you know?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Remodel is better than renovate.
AMANDA: Exactly, right.
JULIA: I know for a lot of people they think that's the same thing. No, you just want to accentuate the things that are already there, repair the things that need to be repaired, not replaced.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: I'm big on old house Instagram, so I have strong opinions on all these things.
AMANDA: Yeah. Especially if you're going to run a haunted bed and breakfast, which is a robust market, you got to make sure you're keeping all those historical details that the ghosts are anchored to.
JULIA: I'm truly thinking now that that should be my retirement plan, is like—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —buying a haunted Airbnb and just having Jake be like the— the creepy old man who, like, goes around and is like, "Way back in my day, they say the spirit of the man who used to live here haunts this place, and it's me."
AMANDA: Yeah. And you can transform it for Halloween or maybe it's like that all year round.
JULIA: It might be the— like that all year round, it might be.
AMANDA: S.K. continues— which, hey, I see what you did there. It's from the— from the name of the house. "Many of the rumors surrounding the mansion have iffy roots, but I'll tell you all the ones I've heard. It was built by Sylvester K. Pierce, a wealthy chair maker." Nothing, Julia—
JULIA: There's got to be a—
AMANDA: Nothing says early 19th century like the phrase, "A wealthy chair maker."
JULIA: There's got to be a better, like, title for that besides chair maker, like wood— wood— woodsman.
AMANDA: I'm sure.
JULIA: Not woodsman.
AMANDA: Whatever. Craftsman, carpenter.
JULIA: Woodworker—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah, craftsman. Yeah, one of those.
AMANDA: Oh, man.
JULIA: But, no, he made chairs. That's it. Never made a satay in his life.
AMANDA: It's incredible. "So it was located across the street from his factory in the 1850s." This much is true. "As kids, we would swap stories of the mansion, telling each other it used to be a brothel. And at one point, it was a hospital, and then a hotel, and then switch back—"
JULIA: There's always one of those.
AMANDA: Exactly, right. "We told each other that people died there from sickness and murder, and some were still around waiting for revenge on those who wronged them in their lives. Once, in fact, the owner was having a yard sale for a normal reason, because he was moving. And my mom and I had been coming home from the church down the street when we decided to see if there was anything good. Fortunately, the only thing we walked away with was a story."
JULIA: Oh, wait, fortunately? No, you want something cool.
AMANDA: Right?
JULIA: As a memento.
AMANDA: I agree. Okay. "So the woman told us about how one time she was home alone and in the basement, doing laundry when she heard the door at the top of the stairs slammed shut."
JULIA: Uh-oh.
AMANDA: "She turned, raced back up the stairs, only to find that the door had miraculously shut and locked itself."
JULIA: No.
AMANDA: "Now, she assured us that it was a heavy door and she had propped it open solidly."
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: "After a few minutes of panic and resigning herself to waiting for her partner to get home, the door opened by itself. She ran up the stairs, grateful, and going to greet her partner, but then saw he wasn't home yet."
JULIA: Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
AMANDA: "Now, as an— about 8-year-old at the time, this story chills me to my bones, and she told us what happened while I peeked into one of the large windows in the front of the house."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "Of course, I saw a young child standing there, staring out."
JULIA: Absofuckinglutely not.
AMANDA: And don't worry, Julia, "No children were living in the house at the time."
JULIA: Come on. Maybe it was like an estate sale, and so she let people in to, like, look at stuff, and there was just a child also in there. I don't know.
AMANDA: I don't know.
JULIA: I'm try— I'm trying to logic my way out of this one, but it's not good. Certainly not good.
AMANDA: "Now, when they sold the house, another couple bought it at a price that they thought was amazing for a house with over 20 rooms."
JULIA: Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
AMANDA: Julia's scared.
JULIA: It's me, that's why I'm scared.
AMANDA: "They claimed that they had no idea the house was haunted, but they were only from one town over, so I don't believe that they didn't know—"
JULIA: They had to—
AMANDA: "Hell, it even looks haunted."
JULIA: They had to have known. Also, I gotta double-check and see if Massachusetts is one of those— where they legally have to tell you if it's haunted or not.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The haunting disclosures.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: I mean, I feel like probably not, or else no house would ever sell in Massachusetts.
JULIA: That's— that's fair. That's fair.
AMANDA: "So once I started to experience things in the home, they reached out to the media, and looked for ways to monetize the haunting."
JULIA: No. That's fucked up. Those ghosts hate you now.
AMANDA: "If it were me, I would have just lived with the ghosts or maybe contacted a medium."
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: "Now, it's clear that ghosts didn't like this, and they ended up being very hostile with the new owners, whereas before they were just kind of there. The house is featured on an episode of Ghost Adventures from when the couple owned it."
JULIA: That motherfucker. I'm gonna fight him.
AMANDA: Zack Baggins is back to haunt you.
JULIA: I'm gonna fight him in a Denny's parking lot. I don't even know where there's a Denny's near me, but I'll fight him there.
AMANDA: You'll find it and you'll fight him. S.W. finishes, "Anyway, I've never been in the home, I don't plan on it, but it is one of the biggest things that's put Gardner on the map. And I was really surprised no one had written in to tell you about the story."
JULIA: I just love— and is like, "I don't plan on it. Not gonna happen."
AMANDA: I'm not gonna go there.
JULIA: No, it's not gonna happen.
AMANDA: Love it.
JULIA: Even when they open it as a bed and breakfast, you're not even, like, gonna like wander in and be like, "Oh, yeah, show me your rooms."? Woink.
AMANDA: Well, S.W. has linked to a recent news story from 2021—
JULIA: Oh.
AMANDA: —about— about the mansion and finishes by saying, "I'm happy to write in about my own experiences with the paranormal if you want—"
JULIA: Always.
AMANDA: "—but I hope you enjoyed the stories I sent so far."
JULIA: I want all the stories, all the time. When you guys say like, "Oh, do you want to hear about this?" Yeah, obviously I do. Obviously, I do.
AMANDA: Always. Always.
JULIA: Even if we don't read it out on the show, I still want to hear about it.
AMANDA: So from a— a basement library in Philadelphia to a uncanny corner of Connecticut, all the way up to Massachusetts, we have had a— a fun, little pre-autumnal swing through New England.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. We hit, like, three states. That's pretty good for us.
AMANDA: Slash— I mean, I guess Pennsylvania is technically the breadbasket, but you know what I mean, it's spiritually New England.
JULIA: Yes. For sure, for sure. Well, remember, listeners, when your teacher tells you that you have a day off and stares into the distance like they're in a trance, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
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