Episode 47: Sekhmet
/There’s something in the distance, coming closer. Blood is in the air. You know what that means—it’s time to get drunk and talk about Ancient Egypt! This week’s episode covers the goddess of war and intoxication, Sekhmet. We talk about balance in the world and in our lives; Julia schools Amanda on the hierarchy of lion prides; and we create a mythologically themed beer!
Learn more about Assassin’s Creed: Origins at bit.ly/spiritsac!
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Transcript
AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 47: Sekhmet.
JS: Amanda, I think this episode has it all.
AM: Yeah.
JS: It's got blood. It's got drinks and sand.
AM: Powerful Women.
JS: Yes, powerful women. Very important.
AM: Lions.
JS: Lions. I'm into it too.
AM: Powerful women lions. We got everything we need.
JS: I do – I do you like the combo of powerful women lions.
AM: And, speaking of powerful women lions, I would love to welcome our newest patrons to patreon.com/SpiritsPodcast joining the fam.
JS: Amanda, that was a really good transition. I'm really proud of you there.
AM: I am proud of myself also. Thank you. Welcome to Sofie, Bethany, Katarzyna, Kailyn, and Lauren. And, as always, much love and much thanks to our supporting producer-level patrons: Catherine, Charles, Debra, Kimmo, MCF, Sandra, Ryan, Phil, Robert, Zoe, Eeyore, Lindsey, Sara, Julie, Dylan, Philip, Chandra, DDLG, Neal, Kristina.
JS: They are all, all the goddesses upon which we suckle?
AM: Moving on. That's no way to treat our patrons. But we, actually, also have this new tier on Patreon, our legends. So, these folks will be receiving an actual physical package every single month with some stuff that we are loving at the moment. And we are so stoked to get packages out next month to LeeAnn, Cassie, Cammie, Shannon, and Erin.
JS: And, if you'd like to get on that level because you should get on that level --
AM: Get on our level, y'all.
JS: -- you can either edit your pledge or start pledging today at the $25 tier.
AM: And our patrons at the $4 level and above are getting recipe cards this week with a cocktail that we mix just for this episode, because, during this episode, we were drinking Blood and Sand, which is I think my favorite cocktail right now. I think we mentioned it in our previous episode, but it's like, to me, a new fresh delicious orangey take on the Manhattan, and I am so into it.
JS: Yeah. I forewent my ban on brown liquor just to have this, because it was so on theme.
AM: I know. I ended up finishing your drink for you. But, honestly, that's the kind of drink that I enjoy. When you order is when I know that I'm going to be finishing it for you.
JS: I know. I know. You love it. Amanda, I think the important thing to talk about today is why are we talking about ancient Egypt.
AM: Julia, that's because we are sponsored this week – and I cannot believe I'm saying this sentence.
JS: I know. I can't either.
AM: By Assassin's Creed.
JS: I know.
AM: Assassin's Creed.
JS: God, it’s so fucking cool.
AM: Which we have loved since high school, maybe even before.
JS: I love all things that are video games, and historical, and also murder.
AM: And we are going to be telling you much more about Assassin's Creed Origins, which is set in ancient Egypt in the period of time when the Romans were starting to take over in our midroll break of this episode. And we are so stoked. We're so thankful. Like I cannot believe it that we're being sponsored by Assassin's Creed.
JS: It's amazing.
AM: And it's so good. And the game is so good, and historical, and accurate. And they had like historians and librarians and everybody working on the game. Anyway, much more to come.
JS: If you want to learn more though about our amazing, amazing sponsor, Assassin's Creed Origins, because they're great, you can go to bit.ly/SpiritsAC.
AM: SpiritsAC, Spirits, Assassin's Creed. You can go there. Learn about the game. See some footage. It's so beautiful. Our copies are in the mail, and I cannot wait to play it.
JS: I can't believe that we're getting copies of it. I'm so excited.
AM: I hope you're not doing anything Saturday, because I'm inviting myself over to play it on your XBox.
JS: You are already coming over, but it's totally fun.
AM: Excellent. And, without further ado, please enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 47: Sekhmet.
Intro Music
JS: Amanda, let's take a moment to picture an image. I know neither of us have been, but I want you to picture yourself along the edge of the Nile River.
AM: Okay.
JS: The sun is scorching hot above you. It's just about noon. And you're tempted to maybe stick your feet in the water just to cool down, but two things are stopping you. The first is that the river is red. And you've never seen water red like that before. Part of you thinks, "Well, maybe it's the silt. You know from AP World History that the silt in the Nile is what makes it like super, super fertile land, but still you never pictured it that red before. The other is something coming out of the desert across the river. You can't quite make it out at first. The heat makes everything blurry and shimmer. But, eventually, you see a large, hulking form of a lioness approaching the river. You stand frozen on the other side watching her. Even from the other bank, you can see golden fur stained red. Her muzzle and claws still dripping with blood. She calmly drinks from the river staring at you the entire time. That image, Amanda, that would strike fear into anyone in ancient Egypt, because that image is most closely associated with the goddess Sekhmet, a goddess of war, destruction, healing, and, of course, intoxication.
AM: Oh, my god, tell me more.
JS: Okay. We're gonna dive right into the story, because it's a little bit of a long one.
AM: And I'm glad I'm drinking red wine.
JS: I know.
AM: Because I now feel like a lioness with wine around my muzzle.
JS: As you well should. So, I think what we need to start out with first is we need to understand a little bit about the creation of the world in ancient Egyptian mythology. And ancient Egyptian mythology changes a lot according to what, what kingdom you're in.
AM: Yeah. And it also --
JS: Which is a time period.
AM: Exactly. I was just gonna say the time periods were long as hell.
JS: Right.
AM: Which was around – and is around for a long, long time.
JS: Yeah. So, what we need to understand, first and foremost, is that the god Ra is pivotal to the story of Sekhmet. Ra, in this telling of the stories, which dates around the Fifth dynasty of Egypt, which took place in the 25th and 24th Centuries BCE.
AM: Whoa.
JS: This was – Ra was considered all powerful and could take basically any form he chose.
AM: Okay.
JS: He was associated with the sun, particularly the noon sun. But all life was said to have come from him by calling out different names in order to create different aspects of the world. So --
AM: Very cool. And we love talking about how words are power and, you know, language brings stuff into being.
JS: Exactly. So, Ra could name the night sky and the night sky would become Nuit.
AM: Whoa.
JS: Like that's just how it – how it would work.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And he would create the gods and the goddesses associated with those things just by calling out their names and calling them into existence.
AM: Whoa.
JS: It's really, really interesting. It's a really cool creation myth in my opinion. So, at the end of creation, Ra created mankind, and then took the shape of a man and became the first Pharaoh. He ruled for thousands and thousands of years, but grew angry and tired of the people because they started, you know, doing bad things and disrespecting him, because they didn't acknowledge him as the god he truly was.
AM: Like people do.
JS: Yeah. It's very biblical, early Genesis kind of situation there.
AM: Absolutely.
JS: He summons the gods and goddesses to decide what he's going to do with the humans, because he's healing super disrespected.
AM: I love that he calls the council. That's so cute.
JS: Yeah. Especially, because he's the one who created all these other gods and goddesses.
AM: Yeah.
JS: But he still calls a council to seek their advice, which is kind of humble and nice. So, I dig that.
AM: I like this guy a lot better than Zeus.
JS: So far, so good. Yeah. With just the non-Zeusness.
AM: Yeah. On a scale of one to Zeus, Ra is looking like a – like, like a little one and a half, little two.
JS: There we go. Good. Good. Good. So, when he calls this council, Nun, who is the goddess of the dark waters in which Ra emerged and is, technically, Ra's mother --
AM: Right.
JS: -- tells him that he must "turn your mighty eye upon them and send destruction upon them in the form of your daughter, the goddess Sekhmet."
AM: Whoa.
JS: So, Sekhmet, up until this point, did not exist.
AM: Right.
JS: But they knew that she could exist --
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
JS: -- because Ra could call out her name and instantly create her.
AM: Cool.
JS: So, Ra agrees and, with just a glance of his eye – because his eyes were like a very powerful thing and we've talked a little bit about how eyes are extremely powerful in Egyptian mythology.
AM: Yes.
JS: That's why you see it in so much iconography.
AM: And our Underworld episode.
JS: Yes. So, with a glance of his eye, he creates Sekhmet who is known as the fiercest of all the goddesses.
AM: I am her fan already. And I would love to know more details.
JS: Okay. Now, when Sekhmet arrives in Egypt, things go pretty batshit. Basically, don't ever fuck with Ra. Because the story says that, like a lion, she rushed upon her prey. And her prey, in this situation, is mankind.
AM: Wow. Everyone or just sinners or --
JS: Basically, anyone who disrespected Ra or was trying to fuck with Ma’at, which we talked about as the balance of the universe --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- in our Egyptian Underworld episode.
AM: Wow. In the form of a lion always or sometimes others?
JS: Usually associated with a lion. It's kind of unclear just from the storytelling if she was in lion form or if she was like in a human-like form, but just acted like a lion.
AM: Sure.
JS: But it's kind of a cool balance of those things.
AM: I love it.
JS: So, she's associated with the lion. And she gets this lion imagery, because the lioness is the fiercest predator that the Egyptians knew basically. So, she takes pleasure in the slaughtering and punishing of those who went against her father's rulings. And it was said that she rejoiced in the slaughter and loved the taste of blood. This becomes important later.
AM: Okay. Okay. I'm ready. Also, I, I love that she's not a son. I love it.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That he sends a destruction, you know, spirit down to the earthly realm, and it's a daughter.
JS: Also, if you think about it, if you're thinking about the key predators, if you think about lions --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- it's not the male lion that's like going out and murdering the zebras and shit and bringing them back to the den. It's the female lions. It's the lionesses.
AM: I don't know if that's actually accurate in the animal kingdom, but I'm here for it.
JS: Yes, it is.
AM: It is?
JS: No, 100 percent is.
AM: What do the men do then? Just lay around?
JS: They just hang out I guess. Yeah. Unless, unless they are like individuals, they're not part of a pride.
AM: Oh, sure.
JS: The male lions kind of just hang about, and the female lions are the ones that hunt.
AM: Lions even badder ass than I thought.
JS: Yeah, it's pretty damn cool. So, for many nights after a Sekhmet arrived in Egypt, the Nile River ran red as we talked about.
AM: Yes.
JS: And Sekhmet's feet were red as she went across the land of Egypt bringing her father's fury.
AM: Oh, god. Love that image.
JS: The problem, Amanda, is that Ra began to feel pity for the humans.
AM: Ra, I think you need a Lady Macbeth in your life to have you stick firm, bloody, and resolute.
JS: But he didn't because, you know, Ra was kind of above all the other gods and goddesses. So, even --
AM: Right.
JS: Even if someone was like, "Nah, you can't – you probably shouldn't feel bad for them. They did fuck you over." He'd be like, "No, I'm good. Like, it's time to end it."
AM: And, like all joking aside though, I appreciate a guy with conscience.
JS: Yeah. So, he feels bad even though they had rebelled against him. But the problem is not even Ra can stop Sekhmet once she's on this bloody rampage.
AM: Uh, uh.
JS: She's just having such a good time --
AM: Oh, no.
JS: -- murdering a bunch of people that no one can stop her.
AM: I mean she was also purpose created, right?
JS: Right.
AM: Like she was brought into being, you know, kind of for this task. So, you know, it makes sense to me that she would rejoice in it.
JS: Right. And the problem is her role is not yet finished like you said.
AM: Yeah.
JS: As long as there are people who have misdeeds in their heart or evil intention or go against Ra's teaching, she's going to continue to be, you know, bloodthirsty and seek revenge against them.
AM: Oh, my god, what a beautiful loose end. I'm picturing like the movie – like the initial movie about her life fading with her like, you know, coming up again in a different town. Like, well, you know, I, I --
JS: You know, you've done fucked up now.
AM: I'm here in the world, and this is my purpose. Like a – like an Asimov robot. You know, where like --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- you tell it to do something and don't have your parameters set well enough.
JS: Yeah. The three laws of robotics.
AM: Exactly.
JS: Yeah. The problem is Sekhmet would have to stop the killing on her own. And, because she loved it so much, she was not going to do that.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, Ra decided to use trickery in order to end the killing.
AM: I love that trickery triumphs over might so often.
JS: Always. So, what Ra does is he sends messengers to retrieve a red ochre, which is like a dye basically.
AM: Right.
JS: And has the women of Heliopolis brew beer all day.
AM: Wooh.
JS: So, they create 7,000 jars of beer.
AM: Oh, my god.
JS: Which Ra then mixes the ochre into, creating a drink that looked as red as the blood of men under the moonlight.
AM: That is such – the best way to view blood.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like just the idea of the like luster, you know, of the particular – I don't know – like milky whiteness of moonlight. I love that image so much.
JS: I mean plus a lot of large predators are predatory at night instead of just predatory during the day, because it's easier to hunt, you know, when it's dark, and you have good night vision.
AM: Right. And your prey don't.
JS: And your prey don't.
AM: Julia, you're, you're knowing a lot about big game hunting right now.
JS: We're not doing big game hunting.
AM: Sorry.
JS: I just know a lot about lions.
AM: Sorry. Big game, hunting.
JS: Yes.
AM: Big game as they hunt.
JS: I really liked large animals when I was a small child.
AM: What was your – what was your second grade diorama animal project?
JS: Oh shit.
AM: I was the Okapi.
JS: Actually, I'm pretty sure I did poison dart frogs.
AM: Oh, you would.
JS: Yeah, because they were cute and colorful but also deadly.
AM: Like you. Just like me.
JS: They were the rogues of the animal kingdom.
AM: Yeah, they super were.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And the Okapi just want to like eat leaves and be left alone.
JS: Ironically, in Join the Party, the grung are based off of poison dart frogs.
AM: Amazing.
JS: Yeah. And you guys had those grung in the first or second episode I think.
AM: Both.
JS: Yeah. All right. Sweet. Okay. So, they take the beer that they brewed that now it looks like human blood. And the story also notes that the beer is called sleep-maker, because it was three times more potent than any other beer that one would normally drink.
AM: It sounds like I want to have a bottle that in my fridge yesterday.
JS: Yeah, I'm sure. Someone make us this red tinted or red ale called sleep-maker.
AM: I think we've stumbled onto something here.
JS: Someone make this for us, please.
AM: Oh, my gosh. And shout out to Julie, who's sending us some of the long black veil beer that was made based off the legend of the female stranger, who we discussed in the first hometown urban legends episode.
JS: Yeah. Oh, my god, it's so amazing. We're so excited to drink it. We haven't gotten it yet, but we're really stoked.
AM: We maybe should be scared of poison, but like I want to drink all of your beer all the time. So --
JS: I mean that's true.
AM: Please.
JS: But, if we die, we'll be in touch. It will be drinking poisoned beer.
AM: They'd be like, "Oh, my god, their mouth is stained with red. Oh, no, it's beer. Oh, wait, they're poisoned." There's gonna be like lots of plot arcs in that episode of Law and Order.
JS: It's gonna be great. I love it. So, they're taking this beer. They made a lot of it. There's 7,000 jars of it. They take the beer. And it is poured into a field that they knew Sekhmet was headed to. Like they were following the path.
AM: Just like rise up with blood. Yeah.
JS: Yeah. So much of it – they filled the field so much with it that it was like wading in water about nine inches.
AM: Fuck.
JS: Nine inches deep. Like that's insane. That's a large amount of --
AM: Yeah.
JS: That's calf.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And blood spattered up your calf like, "Whoa, what an image."
JS: That's gnarly. So, Sekhmet shows up and sees this entire field full of "blood" and goes apeshit, because wouldn't you?
AM: Yeah. Like who had all the fun without me?
JS: Yeah. So, she starts laughing. And her laughter is like the roar of a lioness hungry for a kill --
AM: Whoa.
JS: -- which is a distinct image.
AM: I know.
JS: I'm sure the Egyptians were not like super excited about.
AM: Yeah, I know. I'm sure that, that is a thing that would like strike fear into children's hearts at bedtime.
JS: So, she's super excited. She stoops down, and she starts drinking, and drinking, drinking --
AM: She gets drunk.
JS: -- until she gets completely hammered.
AM: Yes, what a good myth for us.
JS: So, she's too drunk to do any killing. And, because of the strength of the beer, she does not manage to do any killing with for an entire day.
AM: Whoa.
JS: And she – because she failed to kill a single man for a whole day, her path of destruction ends.
AM: Wow. Like broke the spell.
JS: Yeah. So, she returns to Ra, who points out that she finally now has come in peace.
AM: True.
JS: As such, her name is changed from Sekhmet, which means the powerful one, to Hathor. And she becomes the goddess of joy, feminine love, and motherhood.
AM: Ummm. Okay. Interesting. Interesting transformation.
JS: But Sekhmet is not just forgotten, because her name is changed.
AM: Right.
JS: So, she is also known in stories as the one before whom evil trembles, the mistress of dread, the lady of slaughter, and she who mauls, which is my favorite.
AM: Tag yourself. I'm the second one. What was it again?
JS: Mistress of dread.
AM: Yes, that, that one. Okay, cool.
JS: I'm chick who mauls.
AM: Yeah.
JS: In order to placate her wrath as to not start a slaughter like the first, her priestesses –because, obviously, she gained renown and, you know --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- following because she's a badass.
AM: Yeah, Who wouldn't?
JS: Yeah. So, her priestesses perform a ritual before a different statue of the goddess each day in order to preserve an image of her. And it's interesting because, if you look at the art, her art was distinctly made to last.
AM: Wow.
JS: Like a lot of – a lot of statues of Egyptian gods and goddesses were very ornate, but they weren't built to last. Sekhmet's, all of her statues were carved out of material that they knew was going to last a long time.
AM: Wow.
JS: Which is cool.
AM: Like enduring.
JS: Exactly.
AM: Amazing.
JS: Which I think that's amazing. Festivals were celebrated at the end of any battle in order to pacify her, because she was invoked during wartime.
AM: Right. And, also, to like put her to bed.
JS: Yeah.
AM: You know, like I, I really appreciate that idea that, after the battle is done, like you sort of, you know, celebrate, give thanks, and then say like, "Okay. Like that, that part is done now."
JS: You can chill the fuck out. Yeah.
AM: You don't want the --
JS: Everything's good.
AM: -- the like, you know, blood lust to continue. And I'm sure there's really interesting parallels too to like the way that we offer our people for military service now. Like there's lots of – lots and lots of ways that we fail people coming back from military service you know.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And there probably are like real – there's real value in having ceremony. And like taking a moment and, you know, doing some kind of, you know, honoring and then putting behind you something that is done.
JS: Right. I completely agree. And it's really interesting to know that we've done that since there's been war, basically.
AM: Yeah, man.
JS: Which I super enjoy. I really like that. It's a really, you know, powerful image.
AM: Absolutely. Especially harvest time when everything is abundant. It's like that's when the predator would would snuff.
JS: Yes. So, interestingly, she also got an annual festival, which was held at the beginning of the year. And it was a festival of intoxication.
AM: Hey, Bacchanalia.
JS: Yeah, basically. The Egyptians danced and played music to soothe the wildness of the goddess as well as drink great quantities of wine and beer to imitate the extreme drunkenness that saved them all.
AM: Julia, what are you doing in about next Saturday? Let's do --
JS: Sekhmet Festival.
AM: And, again, like acknowledging a thing that you can't have all the time, right? Like it would be bad to get every single day.
JS: Get super drunk all the time.
AM: But to have one day to acknowledge that this is a thing that we want to do, it's fun.
JS: Yeah.
AM: You know, it's, it's a –it's a part of humanity and just kind of let yourself be there. I mean I think it's really healthy.
JS: Yeah. No. I really enjoy that. So, Amanda, we're going to talk about Sekhmet as a historical aspect. But, first, I need some more red wine.
AM: Let's do it. Let's get a refill.
Midroll Music
AM: So, Julia, we're sponsored this week by Assassin's Creed Origins. Let's just let that sink in for a second.
JS: Oh, god, I just – it gives me chills a little bit.
AM: I know. Like sometimes I can't believe that people actually download and listen to our voices on this podcast. But I actually can't believe that Assassin's Creed wanted to work with us. But, in any case, we're super grateful, because this is like the coolest game of all time.
JS: It totally is. If you've enjoyed the Assassin's Creed games, it's going to be amazing. If you just like history and cool stuff and the occasional murder, this is going to be the game for you.
AM: But you know what, Julia? You don't have to like murder to play this game.
JS: I know.
AM: Do you know why? Do you know why?
JS: Yes, I do. But I want you to tell me about it.
AM: Did you read in the outline?
JS: You also told me about it when we got sponsored, but okay.
AM: Oh, that's true, because I think it's very cool. But they have this new mode called Discovery Tour. So, it's a mode of the game where you don't have to kill anyone. You don't have to do anything. You can just walk around and get educated and experience the world.
JS: And, honestly, when I think of video games, and I think of world building, and I think of this period of time, where Egyptian is on the fall, and Rome is on the rise, and Rome is starting to invade --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- it is such a cool period in history just in general, not just Egyptian history but history in general. And I think it's amazing that Assassin's Creed has taken this awesome period of time, and lets you not only learn about it, but explore it as your character.
AM: Yeah. They had teams of historians, librarians, researchers, educators, working on the game for like years and years as they developed it to actually make sure that the world you're walking around in is historically accurate. Like I didn't know that the pyramids used to be covered in colorful hieroglyphics and paintings.
JS: Yeah.
AM: They were covered in stuff. I had no idea. It wasn't, until I saw the game footage, that I was like, "Oh, shit. Like there – it is lush. It is green. It is verdant. Like there is just so much there that we don't get to see from our photos of, you know, modern day pyramids of Giza.
JS: Yeah, it's really cool. The Romans actually did that too. And it was gaudy as hell, and it was the best part of history ever.
AM: I love it so much. History is so much more colorful than we think it is.
JS: 100 percent.
AM: It seems like a metaphor.
JS: Everything is faded and gross by the time it gets to us.
AM: Well, if you want to bring that metaphor to life and explore Assassin's Creed Origins, it's available on PC, XBox and PS4. You can go to bit.ly/SpiritsAC, like Assassin's Creed. That's bit.ly/SpiritsAC or check out Assassin's Creed Origins at your local game store. The game is coming out next week on October 27th. And the discovery tour mode is going to be released as an update in early 2018.
JS: And it's going to be amazing. I would totally go and get it when it comes out just so you can have the update when it does update, and give you the educational discovery tour.
AM: Exactly. That's my favorite part of playing Assassin's Creed like even in the earlier modes is you can just walk around the city and like enjoy people. And it is very cool.
JS: Right. And I think, honestly, the best part about this game is that, if you're good at video games I guess, you'll probably have it beat by the time that the discovery tour comes out. And it just gives it this playability that you can play the game over and over and over again, and doesn't lose the value.
AM: And we cannot wait to hear what you think about it. Let us know. Thank you again to Assassin's Creed for sponsoring us. We are so appreciative. And we cannot wait to play the game.
JS: It's gonna be awesome.
AM: Now, let's get back to the show.
JS: Woohoo. So, Sekhmet from historical perspective.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Depictions of Sekhmet can tell us a lot about what her pre-Egyptian origins might have been. Though it's kind of a point of contention between some scholars. There's like schools of thought basically.
AM: I love when scholars fight.
JS: I know.
AM: It's my favorite thing in the world.
JS: Did you see the Twitter fight between two museums in England or something like that?
AM: Oh, no, Julia, that was much bigger. It was a – it was a fight among all of the cathedrals in the UK.
JS: No, there was a museum one and then the cathedral one happened after.
AM: Oh, shit. Really?
JS: Yeah.
AM: I'm sorry to shut you down. Then I want to see the museum one real bad.
JS: Yeah. I will show it to you later.
AM: Oh, my god, I love nerds fight. Cool.
JS: It is – I love it. Cool.
AM: I love it.
JS: Awww. Nerds fight. Nerd fight.
AM: But, anyway, we're going to link to both --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- those threads, because the cathedral one was incredible.
JS: Yes.
AM: They were like, "Okay. Yes. You have stained glass windows, but do you have the moon?" And then people have like, like a scale model of the moon in their cathedral. Like what?
JS: Why?
AM: So good.
JS: Oh, god.
AM: Who knows?
JS: I didn't see that one. It's weird that I saw the museum one, and not the cathedral one. I don't know.
AM: I know. We should have been reversed. But, anyway.
JS: So, often, in art, Sekhmet is shown holding a scepter that was formed from papyrus, which was a symbol of Northern/Lower Egypt. Northern Egypt is Lower Egypt.
AM: Yes.
JS: Whereas Southern Egypt is high --
AM: Southern Egypt is Upper Egypt.
JS: Yeah, Upper Egypt. So, that suggests that she's originally worshipped in the north, and then spread to the rest of each.
AM: Oh, sure.
JS: However, lions are not as abundant in that area.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So it kind of makes sense, from a scholarly perspective, that she was likely introduced from the border below the South of Egypt, which is current-day Sudan.
AM: Huh.
JS: Sekhmet, also, weirdly enough, is associated with border control.
AM: Okay.
JS: She and Hathor, which is what she became after --
AM: Right.
JS: -- the war ended, were both considered the mistress of Imau. Imau, being an ancient city that was at the edge of the desert on route to the Libyan frontier, which is the very edge of Egyptian territory at the time. So, she was --
AM: Got it.
JS: -- invoked in that area in order to protect the borders of Egypt so to speak.
AM: That makes sense that there are historical roots to that association, because not one that I would necessarily pick out, you know, after you describe her sort of domain.
JS: Right.
AM: But, you know, if it's about defending stuff and, you know, war associated, like there's a reason probably why the frontier town had that as her – had that as their goddess.
JS: Right. And, also, she's kind of this balance because it's her aspect as Sekhmet and also her aspect is Hathor. So, it's kind of that balance between like the civilized society of Egypt versus --
AM: Right.
JS: -- in their opinion, the wild beyond the Egyptian land.
AM: Yeah. Cool.
JS: Yeah, it's kind of interesting.
AM: Headcanon, patience and fortitude, the lions that are out front of the New York Public Library.
JS: Your favorite lions.
AM: My favorites. I am now going to think of them as Sekhmet and the other one --
JS: Hathor.
AM: Hathor.
JS: Think Hodor, but Hathor.
AM: And my, my character in Join the Party is Inara Harthorn.
JS: Got this.
AM: So, now, I guess I'm going to channel, channel that.
JS: All right. Good. I'm proud of you.
AM: Thanks.
JS: Good memory. So, also, interestingly, Sekhmet is associated with healing disease. If you were in her favor, she could be evoked to avert the plague or other illnesses such as that.
AM: Cool.
JS: She was the patron goddess of physicians and healers and her priestesses were also well trained in those arts as well.
AM: Really?
JS: On the flip side, she was also known as the Lady of Pestilence, because she could send plagues against those who angered her.
AM: Our Lady of pestilence. Man, I'm pretty sure we played them in basketball in middle school.
JS: That's creepy. That's like the – when you see churches where it's like, "Our Lady of Perpetual Sorrow." Like I would never go to that church.
AM: I know. And like it makes sense. It makes sense theologically. But like, "Oh, come on, please."
JS: Yeah. Like don't, don't be sad all the time. I want – I want happy things with my church stuff.
AM: It's why – it's why we're no longer Catholics, Julia.
JS: Okay. In later stories, the drinking of beer ends up with her awakening. And the first thing she sees is the god Ptah. She instantly falls in love with Ptah --
AM: Okay.
JS: -- the minute she sees him.
AM: Same.
JS: Ptah is the god of craftsmen and architects. And their union, creation, and destruction is the reason that there's healing, because --
AM: Whoa.
JS: -- it helps balance Ma’at.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, the idea that something can be destroyed, but it also can be created and vice versa, is the reason that we have healing, because it's the reversal of that cycle.
AM: That is really, really beautiful. I love the idea of healers as not just someone to like put to right what has gone wrong, but someone, you know, participating in that kind of endless cycle or constant rebalancing of the universe.
JS: And that's what the Egyptians are all about. It's all about --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- that Ma’at and the balance of the universe.
AM: Yeah.
JS: In that particular story where she sees Ptah and falls in love with him, Sekhmet is specifically sent by Ra to help bring the balance of Ma’at back in place, because the evil deeds of humans had to be eliminated in order for Ma’at to be balanced.
AM: Right. Right. Wow.
JS: Which I like that. And we're actually gonna talk a little bit more about Ma’at, because Sekhmet is mentioned in the Book of the Dead, which we discussed in our Afterlife episode --
AM: We sure did.
JS: -- as a creative and destructive force and is later considered the protector of the goddess Ma’at.
AM: Huh.
JS: Yeah. We kind of talked about how Ma’at was the goddess of justice and balance.
AM: Right.
JS: So, to have this sort of vengeful figure be her protector, I kind of love that image.
AM: Yeah. We're gonna be really balanced and neutral here or else.
JS: Basically. Well, it's, it's kind of like the forces of evil have, you know, their devices. So, it makes sense to have someone --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- on the other side, you know, who's equally violent and destructive.
AM: Yeah. And, and, also, that, even if the end goal is placid, right, and, and tranquil and balanced, you can still work really hard to get there.
JS: Hell yeah.
AM: Which I think is – this kind of, sort of come out of the blue, but it's a really good metaphor for my own mental illness.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like my, my life is very balanced. And I love that. Like I have routines. I have people, you know, that I see all the time. Like Spirits is really fun. I like my job. And, and, from the outside, this tranquility is like, "Oh, it must be boring." But it was so hard one, you know.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And like especially I think when you have forces, whether it's, you know, mental illness, addiction, like stuff in your family to deal with, whatever. And you're finally able to kind of carve out that state where everything is not a problem anymore. Like it – that – I don't know. It's just something about that balance is there are like battle scars on it.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And I think that this is a really appropriate pairing of a goddess to something that we think of as just kind of neutral or balanced.
JS: Right. And it's super interesting that you point that out, because outside forces are always going to kind of influence, and sway, and push your inner balance.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And, so, if we look at Sekhmet, you – suddenly, you're looking at a goddess, who is inside force that is pushing away --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- those exterior problems.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And I love that, that, that – god, you always do that. You always do perfectly.
AM: Well, you don't have to be a reed in the wind, right?
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like bowing over to whatever forces are coming at you.
JS: Right.
AM: You, you can summon up within yourself equal ferocity. You don't have to, you know, be bad or go to underhanded devices or, you know, act out of character. But you can fiercely defend your own right to have a balanced life.
JS: Yeah. It's, it's constructive anger basically. It's what it is.
AM: Absolutely, channel it. Yeah.
JS: Yeah. A little bit more just to finish up with Sekhmet, and then we can get back on that train of thought.
AM: Please.
JS: So, Sekhmet is also closely associated with the Pharaoh and his kingship. Not solely because she's the daughter of Ra --
AM: Right.
JS: -- the first Pharaoh, but she's also said to protect the pharaoh during times of war.
AM: Okay.
JS: Because she is the mother of a god named Maahes. I think that's pronounced right. I hope so. He is the lion god, who is the patron of the pharaohs. So, as such, Sekhmet acts as a surrogate/spiritual mother for the pharaohs.
AM: Wow.
JS: There's actually even instances in art where the pharaohs are shown as children being suckled by Sekhmet.
AM: Wow.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That's amazing.
JS: That's a really strong vibe, right?
AM: Yeah. Like to put the image of your ruler as a child, like that's amazing. We've seen rulers throughout history, who won't let, you know, like composed images of themselves out into the world.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like wearing different shoes or, you know, like --
JS: Whatever.
AM: -- FDR not wanting to be photographed --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- you know, using walking AIDS. But the idea that your Pharaoh was once someone, you know, tiny and vulnerable is amazing. But also like sucking directly of the milk of the gods. Like that --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- that is very legitimizing.
JS: It's a very strong image.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Yeah. Oh, god, I, I super like that one actually. It's really interesting to me. So, many Pharaoh's took her on as their personal symbol in battle. And art usually depicted her scorching the bodies of enemy soldiers with the heat of her body, because she was associated with the noon sun and the heat of the desert.
AM: Oh, my god. So good.
JS: She's also known as the red lady because of that, which is such a cool image.
AM: I, I mean the color red comes up – the color red comes up a lot in our stories --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- whether it's urban legends or mythology through time, or traditions, or weird sightings. I mean think because it – obviously, it's so striking. But this is one of my favorite uses of the color red I think.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Just because, you know, seeing it from afar, when we think of the deserts of Egypt or even the lush and really fertile places in Egypt, you know, red is such a – such a contrast.
JS: Yes.
AM: Like almost all the time red shouldn't be there. And it's a signal that like something here has gone horribly wrong.
JS: Yeah. Oh, god, it's so cool. I love her. She's really, really --
AM: Horribly right. It goes horribly wrong in order to get horribly right.
JS: Yes, it's all about that balance.
AM: It's always all about that balance.
JS: All about that balance. So, going back to our train of thought with Sekhmet.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And kind of talking about constructive anger. There's actually a really interesting story about Sekhmet, where it's told that Sekhmet, each year, when the Nile begins to flood and become like significantly more dangerous.
AM: Right.
JS: She would swallow the overflow of the river to save humankind.
AM: Wow.
JS: Which is just – it's, it's this idea that is persistent throughout Sekhmet about channeling anger, and channeling frustration, and channeling aggression.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And using it for something that only – not only benefits yourself, but benefits the people around you is something that we can all use in our lives.
AM: Absolutely. And, again, from like a female goddess perspective, you know, all of the words that you just mentioned like passion, anger, strength, you know, single mindedness, these are things that, you know, women especially are coded not to have and to, you know, kind of tamper down within themselves. And, so, to see a goddess who is known for those things and not only to divine uses, but like she's allowed to destroy too. Like, yeah. Like she can get really freakin' mad and like enjoy killing, and, and do the thing that she is appointed to do. But, also, she can put those powers to use for good. And it's never like excuse. Like it's not as if she can be aggressive, but only in service of, you know, some like really good and pure end. Like she can be angry for anger sake, too.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And I think that's a really healthy mix to be able to say like feel your feelings, do your thing, like sit in that emotion for a moment.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And then think to yourself. Like how can I put this to use?
JS: And I think it's really, really cool because, when we talk about Egyptian mythology, the thing that comes back constantly is this idea of balance.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And, so, Sekhmet being this one aspect but is balanced out by other aspects.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, you know, her relationship with Ptah, where it is a creation and a destruction --
AM: Right.
JS: -- both balance together in order to maintain this balance of the universe. That – I like that idea that, if she wasn't angry, if she wasn't destructive, there wouldn't be a balance.
AM: Absolutely. Yeah.
JS: You need both sides of the coin.
AM: You can't be all good in, in this kind of Egyptian worldview.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Absolutely.
JS: And I, I just super like that. I like the idea that it's not a bad thing. It is just part of life.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And you have to embrace that in order to have balance in your life.
AM: And balance in yourself also. I get frustrated sometimes when I do new things or like new things or stop liking stuff I used to like, or – I don't know – do, do things that I think of as not being characteristic to me. Like I have this idea of myself in my head as, you know, a thing that has been decided and set and this is what I am. This is my personality. This is how I would answer personality quiz. And like, boom, that's all. Did it at 15. Goodbye. But, obviously, that is not the case.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like cells change all the time. Your interests, your hobbies, your vocations, where you want to live, how you want to conduct yourself, you know, what kind of people you want in your life, what kind of things you are looking for in a partner. And I love that we can contain multitudes. I love that there is this kind of like theological underpinning and evidence for being contradictory and having both of those things; you know, the, the aggression and the peace, the strength and the kind of placidity in your toolbox. You gotta – you gotta have both to be able to achieve the outcome you want to achieve. And, anyway, for me, I enjoy the reminder that it's okay to be a lioness one day and a, you know, peaceful being the next
JS: Yeah, I like that quite a bit. And, as someone who self identifies as a barbarian --
AM: Hell yeah.
JS: -- in class. D&D joke insert here. I like that I can embrace my anger and still not be considered, you know, destructive and shitty and a bad person, because, you know, I'm keeping balance in my life by being angry about things that I'm allowed to be angry about and feeling the feelings that I'm supposed to feel.
AM: Absolutely. We're talking right now in Join the Party. I play an assassin. And a listener wrote in to say that they're really surprised that my character chose not to kill someone in a moment. Like they, you know, could have. And, you know, they said, Why? Why didn't she just kill him? And my answer was like, well, that's one tool in her toolbox.
JS: Yeah.
AM: You know, like, that's one – that's one thing that she is able to do and things that’s justified under certain circumstances. But, you know, it doesn't mean that you're going to go for that option every single time. And D&D teaches you great life lessons, y'all.
JS: Yeah. To be honest, when you told me, I'm playing an assassin. And then I listened to the first episode, I'm like, "This character is going to be an assassin?"
AM: Yeah.
JS: Like she's going to let people pay her and murder, murder people. But I think you're creating a really interesting story and a really interesting and complex balanced character just in the way that you've been developing her so far.
AM: Thank you. It's an allegory for life.
JS: Yay.
AM: Just like Sekhmet.
JS: Yeah. Just like Sekhmet, who is a badass but is part of the balance in society.
AM: And, if she were with us today, Julia, what do you think she would say to our listeners as parting words of wisdom?
JS: I think she would remind you guys to stay creepy.
AM: Stay cool.
JS: Love you. Bye.
Outro Music.
AM: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
JS: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us on Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook, and Instagram @SpiritsPodcast. We also have all our episodes, collaborations, and guest appearances plus merge on our website Spiritspodcast.com.
AM: Come on over to our Patreon page, patreon.com/SpiritsPodcast for all kinds of behind the scenes stuff. Throw us as little as $1 and get access to audio extras, recipe cards, director's commentaries, and patron-only live streams.
JS: And, hey, if you like the show, please share it with your friends. That is the best way to help us keep on growing.
AM: Thank you so much for listening, ‘til next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil