Episode 48: College Ghost Stories (with Jeffrey Gardner)
/Just in time for Halloween, we’re delivering some of the creepiest college ghost stories we’ve ever heard. With Jeffrey Gardner of Our Fair City fame leading the haunted tour through Kenyon College urban legends, we discuss the best practices in surviving haunted places or for rushing a frat, pitch a Roman Mars/Bruno Mars ghost podcast, and let you know why you should never go to estate sales.
Find Jeffrey Gardner on Twitter @OFCRadio. Catch up on the excellent show Our Fair City in any podcast app or at ourfaircity.com.
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, & Goodreads, and review us on iTunes to help new listeners find the show. You can support us on Patreon to unlock bonus audio content, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. Merch is for sale at spiritspodcast.com/merch.
Transcript
AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 48: College Ghost Stories with Jeffrey Gardner.
JS: Oh, man, Amanda, this is throwing me back to some good, good college stories.
AM: You know what this is, Julia? It's just good old fashioned ghost stories. It's just three people drinking probably a little bit too much and telling each other ghost stories. It's a great episode.
JS: It was awesome. Honestly, I haven't laughed so hard or had the chills as much as we did in this episode.
AM: Exactly. You have like tears of laughter You have goosebumps from the stories. You have like stress sweating as you're thinking through stories of children, and pools, and lights. And, guys, there's just so much here.
JS: There are some straight goosebumps in this episode. It's gonna be good.
AM: But, first, we would love to welcome our new patrons: Elizabeth, Chrysaor, Tamzen, Candice, Jordan, Emma, Jai, Addy, Ashley, and Julie.
JS: You guys are the swimmer – the Viktor Krum Swim Club members of our hearts.
AM: It'll make sense later as they always do.
JS: They always do.
AM: And, as always, thank you to our supporting producer-level patrons: Catherine, Charles, Debra, Kimmo, MCF, Sandra, Ryan, Phil, Robert, Zoe, Eeyore, Lindsey, Sara, Julie, Dylan, Philip, Chandra, DDLG, Neal, and Kristina.
JS: There's so many of you now.
AM: I know I want to do a little like iambic big pentameter cadence to that, but it didn't really work.
JS: No.
AM: And, finally, to our new legend patrons – so, these folks are going to be getting an actual physical package every single month with some stuff that we are loving at the moment. Maybe we'll get some like Viktor Krum Swim Club patches made up. That'll be really cool. I know you love patches.
JS: I love patches.
AM: We just love patches. But we are so stoked to be sending out patches and packages next month to LeeAnn, Cassie, Cammie, Shannon, Erin, and Ashley.
JS: Actually, we already decided what our first month is going to be. And let me tell you it is pretty, pretty cool.
AM: Yeah. And we'll be sharing photos for all the rest of y'all to see what you're missing out of.
JS: Yes. And it's also hella exclusive.
AM: It is. It is.
JS: I'm excited for it.
AM: Limited run, baby.
JS: Yeah, boy. Amanda, so, I crafted the drinks this week.
AM: Guys, don't let Julia make you drinks. Just don't. She can pour you wine. She can't make you mixed drinks.
JS: Listen, I'm very good at mixed drinks. They just happen to be super heavy.
AM: I'm just saying that they're super deadly.
JS: Yes.
AM: They're deadly, Julia. Like you give me a gin and tonic. It's like, "Oh, here's a 24 ounce goblet. Half of it is gin, splash of tonic, lime. Goodbye."
JS: Actually, three quarters of it is gin.
AM: You're right. You're right.
JS: The rest is tonic and lime juice.
AM: You're right. That'll be a good like philosophical book, The Rest is Tonic.
JS: The title of my memoir. Thank you for that. So, we made Black and Gold this week.
AM: Oh, we sure did.
JS: Which is a drink basically that was designed to be the drink of the Ohio Derby, which --
AM: I don't know how successful it was, but that's what the internet said.
JS: But, listen, it's rum and tequila and a couple of mixers, but not a lot of mixers.
AM: Like ginger ale and grenadine I think.
JS: Yes, that's it.
AM: Which I mean I would drink all four of those separately. But, truth be told y'all, it went down too easily. Ohio, what are you doing mixing rum and tequila?
JS: God bless, Ohio.
AM: I mean God bless you. I guess you have to drink those winters away somehow. Drink responsibly, kids. But Black and Golds, we are going to be including the recipe for our patrons in our enhanced show notes.
JS: It's really good.
AM: We hope that you've been enjoying weekly Spirits and creeptober. I know that we have had such a fun time doing all of this for you. And we can't wait to keep going weekly. If you like it too, it is really, really helpful for you to review the show on iTunes. We're getting close to 300. And, if you just give us a nice rating, hopefully, five stars, but whatever your heart desires. Tell us a myth. Give us a compliment. Say stay creepy, stay cool in a comment. And that would be really, really helpful in letting new folks buy into the show.
JS: Yeah. Apple podcast is really, really into the ratings and reviews system. And it's a great way of letting new people find out about Spirits, because we show up on the charts and stuff like that when you guys rate and review.
AM: I just want to be number one billboard podcast chart topping hitter, Amanda McLoughlin.
JS: Those were a lot of words that you said.
AM: I just – I just kept going. I, I shoot for the stars. And, if you've already reviewed us or if you don't have an iPhone or a computer with iTunes on it, you can tell a friend. You can tweet. Use Facebook. Text a friend. Just pass us right now. Pass my melodious voice. Text a friend who you think would enjoy the creepy cool goodness that is Spirits.
JS: And we would super appreciate it.
AM: We really love you guys. Thank you so much. Hang on to your butts. This episode is scary.
JS: It's really good.
AM: And enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 48: College Ghost Stories with Jeffrey Gardner
Into Music
JS: Today, we are joined by a very special guest. A guest we've been talking to and, hopefully – we're trying to get on Spirits since the beginning.
AM: Really. Yeah.
JS: This is Jeffrey Gardner, who is the executive producer for Our Fair City, which is an amazing audio drama. You've heard us talk about it on the show before. If you haven't gone to check it out, you should check it out now. Jeffrey, welcome.
JG: Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so, so excited to be here.
JS: We're excited to have you, man.
AM: And I'm showing up to listen to stuff as I always do. So, what, Jeffrey, are we going to be talking about today?
JG: We are going to be talking about the ghost stories of Gambier, Ohio.
AM: Is it a hometown stories one?
JG: It, it is.
JS: Yes.
AM: Yes.
JS: Those are our favorites.
AM: You know we love those.
JG: Yeah. So, Gambier, Ohio is a town that has a very, very special place in my heart. It is the seat of Kenyon College, which is where I did my undergraduate.
AM: Nice.
JG: And then taught briefly there later, which was a very different experience.
JS: I'm sure.
JG: It sits in Knox County. There are I think maybe 2,500 to 3,000 people in the area.
AM: So,nice and tiny. Nice and tiny.
JG: You know, 1,500 of those being students. Very, very small. It’s a town --
JS: [Inaudible 5:42]. So, it's like a tiny, tiny Boston.
JG: Yeah.
AM: Yeah, a tiny college town. Very good.
JG: Yeah. No, no. It's, it's, it's a town without streetlights. There is one long block of town, a post office, a bank, a deli, and a bookstore. And that's really basically it.
AM: And this sounds like a very efficient setup for haunting.
JS: Yes.
AM: Like a ghost that really wants to optimize. To do some like four-hour haunting per week. Like that's the kind of town you want to haunt, because you can thoroughly terrify an entire county by just haunting the like six buildings and, you know, a few homes. Like that sounds --
JG: Yeah.
AM: That sounds like a good lazy ghost.
JG: Absolutely. Yeah. No. The campus, at its – at its widest, is a mile wide.
AM: Nice.
JG: So, it is very small. It is very remote. You know, there is – you know – maybe, you know, a cornfield and a cow that kind of lean slightly to the left. And that's the only thing around it.
AM: I'm sensing there's a specific cow that you're, you know, calling here.
JG: Yeah. Yeah. It's – also, it is like THE most haunted place I have ever had the pleasure of living. And I – you know, I will say I guess, at the outset, I do not believe in ghosts.
JS: Okay.
JG: Except --
JS: That is – that is a good prerequisite for living in a very haunted place.
JG: Uh huh. No. I am absolutely sure they do not exist. It's absurd. You know, they could not exist, but, boy, do I run as fast as I can at 1:00 AM when I'm turning out the lights and I'm the left in the building.
AM: it's your hindbrain. Your hindbrain just understands. Like, as a kid, I had a set of stairs in the basement, where like the stairs didn't have a box to them. It's like an open staircase type thing. So, I saw on Scooby-Doo or something, at some point, you know, the thing where like the monster’s hand comes out to grab your ankle as you're going up the stairs. And, so, every – to this day, my parents sold the house that I grew up in last year. But like, you know, I was 25. I was like, "Oh, boy, I am never ever, ever not gonna run up this stairs." And, actually, speaking of Scooby-Doo, if, if the – if the college campus is that narrow, a ghost could really, again, effectively haunt you in hilarious circles, where like you can fear run across a mile-wide college campus in like eight minutes. Even I could fear run that long in like eight to nine minutes.
JS: Yeah.
AM: So, you know, you can really just have a like – I don't know – a like Boing Boing Farsi style like haunting in and out of doors. That would be funny.
JS: Fair enough.
JG: Well – and, and, with a population that small, you can run that whole campus at the right hour of night and not see anyone.
JS: That is true.
JG: And, you know, that's – living in a city now and as I'm sure you guys are in New York, you know, that's – it's a bizarre thing. I mean we are living in cities. We're never more than like maybe 15 feet away from another person.
JS: Yeah. That is true.
JG: You know, at most. So --
AM: Yeah. Sometimes, as I'm coming home, I'll just like look and, in my fields of vision, there are no people. And like there are people, you know, in the buildings or in the stores or something, but I'll just see no like human figures in my fields of vision. And I'll just be like, "Huh." Like did the apocalypse happen and I didn't realize it?
JS: The rapture happened. You weren't invited.
AM: Just the constant – I'm not gonna be invited to the rapture. Don't worry. But, yeah, the – just the constant presence of people is like something that I've come to rely on.
JG: I actually have a great rapture story.
JS: Go ahead.
AM: Oh my gosh, please.
JG: The – so, so, the day of – I don't – I don't remember what the date was. But, when the guy said, I was like, "Oh, this is the day when, you know, everyone – you know, the rapture will happen.
AM: Like 2011 or something. Yeah.
JG: Yeah. Yeah. So, I woke up on that morning. And there – I was living in this apartment with a little park across the street. And I didn't have my glasses on yet. And I like leaned over and looked out my window. And I saw someone with long brown hair in a white robe walking through the park.
AM: Oh, my god.
JS: It's Jesus. It's Jesus. It's Jesus.
AM: What did you think?
JG: Yeah. I thought, "Well, I have – I made several bets wrong. I misplayed this hand.
AM: Well, I [Inaudible 9:46].
JG: And – you know – and then I put on my glasses, and I realized it was a woman wearing a big white dress.
AM: Wow.
JS: Yeah.
JG: You know, kind of like an off white beige. And I said, "Oh, okay, I'm probably fine."
JS: You probably are.
AM: Speaking of ladies with long dark hair and white dresses, what are the ghost stories that we have distracted you thus far from telling us?
JG: As I was saying, huge number of ghosts. Stephen King, when he visited campus, wouldn't stay on campus.
JS: Amazing.
AM: Smart. Smart.
JG: That's how haunted it is. Yeah. So, the one I'm going to start off with is, is one of the most famous ones. And these are the ghosts of old Kenyan. Old Kenyan is the oldest dorm on campus.
AM: As the name suggests.
AM: Nice, nice, nice. Efficient.
JG: Now, now, I'm also – I'm also going to say I went back and forth on this, and I decided not to do any research --
AM: Okay.
JG: -- and not to like refresh myself on any dates or anything, because I feel like, you know, these ghost stories were all like passed down to me. And I feel like that's the appropriate way to share them.
AM: Exactly. Like translated between – yeah – the, the generation.
JS: Jeffrey --
JG: Yeah.
JS: -- you came on the right show to do that.
AM: You came on the right show not to have citations for your research.
JG: So, sometime in like the 30s, there was this big dance with one of the local women's colleges.
JS: Cool.
JG: And, so, all of these women had come onto campus and danced. And that night in this big dorm – it's a beautiful structure with these three – oh, what are they called? Spires.
AM: Nice.
JG: And you'll see it in a lot of – a lot of the colleges, you know, logos and stuff like that. But the dorm burned.
AM: Oh.
JS: Not great.
JG: And something like 20 or 30 people were trapped on the third floor.
JS: Yikes.
AM: That'll, that'll cause a haunting.
JG: Uh huh.
AM: That's the way to do it. That'll, that'll do it.
JG: Uh huh. And, so, they rebuilt this iconic dorm exactly, you know, to, to the specifications from the old blueprints.
AM: Don't do that.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That's asking for a haunting.
JS: You know what you definitely shouldn't do? Recreate the dorm, where all the people died.
JG: Uh huh.
AM: Yeah, where they are now forevermore trapped and unable to leave, because – oh, no – you built their prison around them again.
JG: Then a year or two later people started noticing on the second floor spectral feet about a foot down walking through the halls and through the ceilings.
AM: Like an apparition of feet?
JG: Yeah. Just feet sticking out of the, the ceiling. And, so, they went back --
JS: Because they built the thing higher than last time.
JG: Uh huh.
JS: Yes.
AM: Nice.
JG: They checked the plots. And it had been built just slightly wrong.
JS: Oh, that's so cool.
AM: Wow.
JG: And, also --
JS: An architecturally accurate ghost.
JG: Right.
AM: Me too. Like I, I respect a ghost that – have you seen that video, Julia, of the like – the chicken where, if you have the chicken in your hand and you just kind of move the body around, the head stays in the same place. Like it --
JS: No. I've never seen that video in my entire life.
AM: I'm going to show it to you after we finish the story.
JS: Okay.
AM: But like – but like – just – it's like a gyroscopic effects really, where the chicken will stay stationary.
JG: Yeah, it's the steadicam chicken.
AM: Yeah, the steadicam. Exactly. It's the one. And I love – I love the idea that, that the ghosts are like – are like geolocated themselves at not only the correct latitude and longitude, but the correct like altitude. And it's just – it's great.
JS: Very good.
JG: Uh huh. No. They were just sticking with what they knew. So, that – yeah. That's – and that's one of the – you know, the famous ones. And --
JS: And it's a great one.
JG: Sorry. My kitten is trying to climb on to my microphone.
AM: Awwww.
JS: Oh, my god, that's okay. Is that Sweetpea?
JG: It's Sweetpea. Hey, Sweetpea. Do you want to say hi?
JS: Please meow to the mic.
JG: Oh, she [Inaudible 13:27]. Okay.
AM: Okay. No. No. Not that.
JS: Okay. And you're gone now.
AM: Cat out.
JG: As they're saying, lots of ghosts. The only spectral experience that I had – and, again, I do not believe in ghosts, but --
JS: Okay. Fair enough.
JG: It's late at night. I am down in the basement of the Bolton theater, which is one of the bigger ones. I've checked everyone out. I was stage managing something. And I'm the last one in the theater. So, I'm locking up and turning out all the lights. There is – in the costume shop, there's a big space where you can go back into costume storage. There's just racks and racks and racks of clothing. Deeply creepy.
AM: Just fluttering ominously in the breeze.
JG: Uh huh.
AM: Awesome.
JG: Exactly. So, I poke my head in. I called several times. I make sure it's empty. I turn out the lights. I wait a second. Nothing. I close the door. I take a couple steps away. And there's this huge pounding on the door behind me.
JS: Oh, shit.
AM: That's so much worse than a voice.
JG: Yeah. And, so, I booked it.
AM: Good instinct.
JG: And I have no idea what it was. You know, an old radiator settling or pipes --
JS: Oh, my god.
JG: -- or some, you know, freshmen, who thought that they were in trouble, because they were still back there when they shouldn't have been. And then ended up staying the night in the costume shop.
AM: I was gonna say that was the correct self-preservation instinct. It's like someone's trapped in there. Too late. I'm done.
JG: Yeah.
AM: I'm out.
JS: I called. I did last call.
AM: I'm out
JG: The ghost will, will get them, and --
AM: And not you.
JG: -- maybe give me a chance to get away
AM: I mean talk about horror, horror movie logic. You know, the horror movie person would hear the thing and be like, "Jimmy, did you get trapped in there again?" or whatever, and then just like amble over and unlock the door.
JS: Like get murdered with an ax. Uhmm.
AM: And they get murdered.
JG: I'm always annoyed with horror movies, where I feel like, you know, there are reasonable ways to think your way out of it.
AM: Yeah.
JG: And, so, I tried to never get myself into those situations --
JS: It makes sense.
JG: -- because I'd hate to look back and be like, "Aah, could have avoided that."
AM: And that time you wake up and you're like, "Damn it. Rapture. Didn't see that one coming. I could have avoided it." There were steps. There's a book. People tell me how to – gosh. Wow.
JG: The, the various theater and dance buildings have several ghosts, of course. The dance hall --
AM: Of course.
JS: It's always the – it's alway the theater people that become ghosts.
JG: Right.
AM: I mean talk about concentrations of feeling and ritual.
JS: It's all about that ego. We talked about this.
AM: Yes, we did. We did.
JS: That's why there's millennial ghosts and civil war ghosts, and no other ghost.
AM: God, millennial drama club ghosts. Are their worst ghosts, Julia, that one could be trapped with?
JS: There is not.
AM: As former drama kids, uh, uh.
JS: We can attest.
JG: So dramatic. No. So, one of the other things Kenyon has is a really incredible swimming team. I mean, when I was there for a Div. III school, you know, they were beating I think OSU and, you know --
JS: Yeah.
JG: -- big wheel schools like that. And I think there was at least like one Bulgarian Olympic swimmer on the – on the swim team.
AM: Viktor Krum. Nice.
JG: Yeah. Yeah. Right.
JS: The Viktor Krum of swimming.
AM: No, no. It's actually Viktor Krum as Viktor Krum, where he like pulls that movie where they go back to high school. Whatever. Never Been Kissed?
JS: 21 Jump Street?
AM: Never Been Kissed?
JS: I have no idea what you're talking about.
AM: You're talking about a different movie. I'm talking about an 80s movie, Julia.
JS: Okay.
AM: This is very rare.
JS: Yes, it is.
AM: Anyway. But, yeah, like actual Viktor Krum, retired to America, picked up a new sport, changed his name, and became just a Bulgarian swimmer at a college.
JS: That's a good setting.
JG: That's, that's basically how I heard it. Yeah.
AM: Anyway. Sorry.
JG: No, no. The, the dance rehearsal hall at Kenyon is the old swimming pool. And, if there's any bad idea, it's build a dance floor over the old abandoned pool.
JS: That's how the ghost just keeps drowning over and over again.
AM: You filled it up with concrete. Julia, that was dark.
JS: I mean like that's what I'm just assuming. Like a ghost drowns. He tries to come back up. There's cement there.
AM: Wooh.
JG: Wooh.
JS: Sorry.
JG: Well --
AM: Whoa.
JS: Sorry everyone.
JG: Now, I feel bad for the ghosts.
JS: You should feel bad for the ghosts. They're dead.
JG: I feel like I need to like start a movement to, to preserve original architecture. You know, think of the ghost rights.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Hell yeah.
AM: Someone, this is it. Ready? It's us. It's Roman Mars. And the, the like collection of our – of our interests are preserving and like talking about interesting architectural things to the end of not trapping ghosts in – you know, by like rebuilding or paving over bad things. Like imagine how many ghosts are trapped in rooms that are now just walled off. No. Bad. I don't like it. Or, chimney ghosts, where the fireplaces in, in apartments are now just all like bricked over. Sorry, Chimney Ghost, bye.
JS: Did you say Bruno Mars or Roman Mars?
AM: Roman Mars.
JS: Okay. Because I heard Bruno Mars. And I'm just like why would Bruno Mars want to get in on this? Roman Mars makes sense.
AM: Yeah. You're, you're surprised face seemed to me inappropriate to what I was suggesting.
JS: Fair enough. I did hear Bruno Mars though.
JG: I would --
AM: All I'm saying crossover. Roman, we're open.
JG: I would also listen to Bruno Mars' ghost podcast though.
JS: Uh huh.
AM: Wow. Talk about a good ghost hunter. Like that would be great.
JS: He just like sings at walls. He's like, "There's a ghost over there."
AM: Just him as a partner. Just as a person. Just like his style. He just like has a – has a cool crew. Like just a bunch of interesting hats. And I feel like that's important. I feel like looking around and like, in a ghosthunting scenario, you want to be able to identify the silhouettes of your team members versus ghosts. And Bruno Mars is like just think of the --
JS: Just think of the weird Fedora --
AM: -- hat situation.
JS: -- so you can figure out --
JG: No. No. But you see then he's, he's wearing kind of like slightly anachronistic hats.
AM: Yeah.
JG: And that's what the ghosts are going to show up in.
AM: Oh, no, you're right.
JS: Emphasis, the hat.
AM: Everyone in here is wearing a Victorian bowler hat. What are you gonna do? Who knows?
JG: You need – you need everyone on your ghosthunting team in like baseball hats.
AM: As contemporary as possible?
JG: Uh huh. Yeah.
AM: Like snapbacks, because there are no ghosts with snapbacks.
JG: We will only have the most stylish – we will only have the most stylish of ghost hunters with us.
AM: My brain just went from hats, to possessed hats, to that new Mario game that's coming out, where he can like possess people by throwing his hat at them.
AM: I mean that sounds interesting.
JS: It – yeah. But like think of these poor people that are being possessed by Mario's hat. And then that's what Bruno Mars happens to him.
AM: So, you – so, what we're saying is that Bruno Mars is currently possessed by the spirit of Mario.
JS: Yes, that is what I'm saying.
AM: No wonder he can do such like incredible jumps in his videos.
JS: So many flips.
AM: The flippiest.
JS: That was – that was a good tangent, guys. Let's get back to the ghost of the dance hall.
JG: Right. Ghost of the dancehall.
AM: Maybe a ghost has possessed us. And we were – we are unable to actually get to the core of these ghost stories.
JG: So, in this dance hall, across this floor, you will, at odd hours of the night, find wet footprints going through. The, they – no, no. They, they, they put a dance floor over the swimming pool, but they left the locker rooms unchanged.
JS: No. Never do that.
AM: The first thing you tear out, bros.
JG: Yeah.
AM: The showers and the locker room.
JG: So, you find showers on.
JS: That is literally the plot of Poltergeist.
JG: You find showers on it weird times. The swim team also has a tradition every year of staying all night under the dance floor in the abandoned pool.
AM: Why didn’t they fill that with concrete?
JS: Seems wrong.
AM: Why? Why?
JS: That seems so wrong.
AM: That is so scary. Isn't it like mildewy and crackling? I want some photos.
JG: I – boy, you'll have to have someone else take them, because there's no way I'm going over there.
JS: I will go find them.
AM: I will go into the spelunking internet and find them. I will spelunk myself some spelunking photos.
JG: Woof. You know, there's a – there's a tangential one. And it's not really a ghost story, but it is – it's similar, and it's exactly the kind of weird thing that grows up around this kind of town. Some number of decades ago, I think relatively recently, one of the fraternities had – I said that word very weird. I'm going to try that word again.
JS: You did. I kind of like and I didn't say anything about it.
JG: Listen.
AM: You just threw in another syllable. It's fine.
JG: Lagunitas makes a very strong beer. All right.
JS: Listen, they do.
AM: They do. They do.
JS: Brought to you by Lagunitas.
JG: Uh huh.
AM: Not your pub and public brewery.
JG: No. So, one of the fraternities has this – they used to have this ritual, where, during recruitment, they would take their pledges and tie them to the train tracks that go past the campus.
AM: Okay, okay, okay. So, we're just asking for trouble in the worst possible way. Right.
JG: Uh huh.
JS: That's literally a 1920s villain movie, but go on.
AM: Yeah. If the Looney Tune would do it, don't.
JG: Yeah.
AM: That's my only advice to people pledging for fraternities.
JG: So, they leave them tied there. But, again, several decades ago on the last time they did this, a train had been rerouted, and no one was told. And, so --
JS: Oh, god.
AM: Yeah. But like that's the kind of thing that you – that you prepare for.
JS: And check those train times .
AM: I'm not doing that.
JG: You –yeah. Yeah. So, one year, a young man was killed on the train tracks there when there was a rerouted train. And, now, every year during recruitment, the pledges carry a coffin down the length of the campus and down to the train tracks. And it's very strange.
JS: That's so creepy.
AM: I mean that seems like, on the one hand, a sort of an appropriate reminder, you know, of like – but like what are they reminding themselves of? Like the thing that they're doing?
JS: But I'm also super sure that they're doing it like drunk and probably not respectfully, because of their frats. No offense if you were in a frat, Jeff.
JG: No, no, I was not.
JS: Okay. Cool. We're good then.
AM: I mean – I mean someone listening is.
JS: Yeah. But like --
AM: I mean the – I don't know. That's just like – that's very macabre. Like, is it sort of like self – it almost like celebratory of the --
JG: Yes.
AM: -- of the like bad stuff that they did during the ritual that they're currently doing. You know what I mean?
JG: Sure. Well – or reminder not to – you know, to be careful and to keep people safe
AM: Not to do dumb shit.
JG: Yeah.
JS: Yeah.
JG: You know what I mean [Inaudible 23:51]?
AM: I repeat, if a Looney Tunes would do it, don't.
JS: That's a good – that's a good slogan. We’ll put that on the [inaudible 23:59].
AM: Yes.
JG: We’ll put that. Yeah.
JS: I don't think we can, because like --
AM: Looney Tunes.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JG: But I think the – really the best ghost story was from the dorm called Caples. Now, Caples is a nine-story building. It is the tallest building in Knox County. So, that should give you an idea of what this county is like. But I think I wanna say, in the 70s, a guy comes up to his girlfriend's dorm room on the seventh floor. She – depending on how you hear the story, she has either just broken up with him or she breaks up with him when he shows up there. He's very, very drunk. Upset. He goes to the elevator and hits the button. It does not show up. So, he wedges open the door and falls.
JS: Yeah. Not great buddy. Not a good choice.
JG: Not great. Now, what gets weird is what starts happening after that in that dorm.
AM: Yes.
JS: That’s what I like to hear.
JG: And, and these stories were all recounted to me by one of the security officers, who lived in Gambier and who would patrol the campus during the summer when no one was around, and these buildings were all locked.
AM: That's pretty legit.
JS: That's pretty cool.
JG: Mr. Turner. He said --
JS: Thank you, Mr. Turner.
AM: Thank you, Mr. Turner.
JG: Yeah. He said that there was one year when they got a security call that lights were on in the building. And they're like, “Well, no one's been in there.” They go and they look up. And, on the seventh floor, one of the – the lights are on in a window. And they're just going all the way down. Lights on just in that row of windows going all the way to the first floor.
JS: Oh, that's creepy.
AM: Oh, shit.
JS: Like, like he fell.
AM: Oh, Oh my god.
JS: Like fell, Amanda.
AM: Aaah! Oh, my god. Oh, noo!
JG: They go in. They turn off all the lights. And then the switchboard calls him back and says something's going on in there. Because --
AM: Cut the power to the building, burn it down, and never go back. Never.
JG: On the seventh floor, there's a phone call from that room and then from the sixth floor, fifth floor, fourth, third, second, first.
AM: No.
JS: Holy shit.
AM: I mean that's the worst possible outcome.
JG: It's terrifying.
AM: Oh, my god.
JG: The people in that room, on the seventh floor, say that they've been paralyzed in bed a lot there. Feel a presence. There have been, again, weird problems with,you know, the, the water running on the seventh floor when there's no one there. Yeah. It's terrifying.
JS: Jeffrey, I do not get scared from ghost stories very often. That one just gave me goosebumps. That was so good.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
JG: It's a good one, right?
AM: That was so good. And like – and, so, so specific to, to that story.
JS: And the imagery.
AM: Like the context is what makes the – like, if you saw that happening at your college campus, you’d be like, “Wow, that's a weird coincidence.” That the people who are awake are, you know, in a row. That's funny, you know.
JS: But there's also no one there, because it's summertime.
AM: There's no one there. That's creepy. But, but also just knowing, knowing the context of the story makes it so much more horrifying.
JS: Oh, man.
AM: And, and to me that's, that's why I like hearing ghost stories and talking about stuff. Like I don't particularly believe in ghosts either. But the sort of like – I don't know. I just – I – my brain gloms on to stories so much. And, so, if you told me a story about something that happened in this apartment that I live in and anything weird happens, you know, thereafter, my like hindbrain – my pattern recognizing like a reptile brain will be like, “Well, obvi, you know, I'll just fold it into the narrative. So, I, I need fewer reasons to be nervous in my daily life. And, and just having – having a kind of like envelope into which my brain will eagerly like remember and stuff weird things, I don't particularly want to do it. But it's also like thrilling to do, you know.
JG: Sure.
AM: So, I love kind of hearing – hearing ghost stories, not about places that I frequent for that reason.
JG: Well, I think you actually hit on something really interesting there. It’s that – is how these like --
AM: I try, man. That's my one contribution to this content.
JG: Well, but, but how these – how these real things become stories.
AM: Yeah.
JG: You know, you, you made the point that, you know, all ghosts are old and Victorian or, you know, from the wild west or whatever. You know, what is the – what is the point at which a story about someone dying, you know, often really horribly becomes something that is thrilling rather than deeply sad, you know?
JS: Oh, yeah. I think – I think it's once – when you have a community. So, a college campus is a really good example of just ghost myth creating.
AM: Yeah. It's like the most fertile ground possible for myth creation. It's like a watering hole of people who are there to like self mythologize, and to want to belong, and to try to like become part of a community in such a short amount of time. And, so, that's what – I don't know if that's the point that you're trying to make, Julia. But, but like they, they are so eager to like – to hear stories, and to believe in tradition, and to perhaps contribute to that canon.
JS: But it's also so perfect, because you – this is a community that's literally changing every four years or every year basically.
JG: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, you have people leaving, and you have people – new people coming in. So, the story continues to be told in like sort of a way like, "Oh, you didn't hear about Ted, who fell down the elevator?" And that that continues to like metamorphosize into an entire thing.
AM: It's like a telephone. Like it's --
JS: Yeah.
AM: It's in such a quick, quick turnaround. Like, like you say, it's not, you know, your grandma – you know, her grandma told her.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And like, you know, oh, it's been 100 years, and the story was told between two people.
JS: No. It's a quick urban legend telephone, which is perfect for a college campus. I love that. That's so cool.
AM: Petri dish.
JS: Yeah. Yeah, it is.
JG: Well – and, especially with the student population, you very quickly get to a point kind of where, where someone can become a saint. You know, where, where there is no one --
AM: Right.
JG: -- living in the place that remembers that person alive.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Right.
JG: And, and then --
AM: Oooh.
JG: Yeah. Yeah. Uh huh. No, it's weird. No. And, so, I guess – I don't know. I've been – I've been thinking a lot of that.
AM: And especially that idea of myth creation – I don't know. It really, like came to my mind. Because I went to school in the middle of New York City, like I don't – you know, I didn't have the building where these things happened or, you know, traditions of like, "Oh, that's the statue people paint," you know, and kind of cute stuff that I think of as the college experience. I did go to class every single day for four years in the building where the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire was --
JG: Whoa.
AM: -- which is – which is like --
JS: So, how are your classes not haunted there?
AM: It was like a note – I mean it was very hot. But it --
JS: Okay.
AM: But, yeah, it was – it was like a pinnacle of the labor movement in the United States, where there was like a horrible fire in a – in a Shirtwaist like a clothes kind of, you know, manual labor factory.
JS: A clothing – yeah. That is why I left.
AM: And like 110 people died.
JS: In a fire.
AM: And like, yeah, like jumping out of the building. Like it was everything you can imagine. It's horrible. And then, once every year in the springtime, you'll be like, “Oh, that's weird. There's chalk drawings on the sidewalk. Oh, no, it's the day.” And people like come and like write the names of the people that – it's, it's a lot.
JG: Wow.
AM: It's very macabre. But that was really – anyway, but that building – you know, that event happened in like the, the teens or the 20s. So, it's not as if we have like this long tradition of stuff. But, anyway, I think, especially the perspective of coming to college, at least for me, you know, I was so eager to like learn and to fit into a new community, you know, and to like carve out a place for myself, and, you know, to be known by other people, and to be part of their stories. And, so, just the idea that like something, you know, could happen. And, by the morning time, there's like a – you know, a legend about it or a lore about it. That, to me, is just so – like it's so sweet almost, you know, that people – I don’t know – really want to belong and really want to like contribute to like the building of narrative, which is like, inherently, you know, a collaborative process.
JS: Yeah, it's sweet besides the ghost part.
AM: Besides the death, it's very sweet.
JG: That's a – that's another --
AM: Spirit Podcast.
JG: -- good subtitle for your podcast there.
JS: There we go.
AM: Thank you. Thank you. Glad we’re on the same page.
JG: Those are – those are the really – those are the good ones.
AM: Are there dumb ones?
JS: Yeah. Tell us the dumb ones, too.
JG: Oh, gosh. Well, so, so --
AM: Let's go there.
JS: Let's go there. I’ll – I'll tell you my school’s dumb one real quick if you want.
JG: Please. No, please.
JS: So, I went to a school that was like – it was probably only 100 years old. It used to be like basically parks and baseball fields. And then they built up into a college. And the main campus would have – they had tunnels, because it's Boston. And it gets crazy cold. And snow is a lot. And, so, these tunnels were supposedly haunted, not for any reason. Just because they were creepy, and they had drafts a lot. Like there was no story that went with it.
AM: Underground and kind of dark.
JS: Yes. It was just like, “Ooh, there's ghosts in here.” I’m like, “I don't – I don’t think so. That door locks occasionally, but, other than that, like it's really not ghosty.” But that was – that was the only Northeastern like ghost story, which like wasn't really a story.
AM: Hmm.
JG: Well, so, so, these are not – these are not dumb ghost stories. But they are – so, I'm gonna get a little personal here. I, I have a thing called hypnagogic hallucinations. Which means that, when it's, it's a – it's – I think most often it's a like very slight form of narcolepsy. But it means that, when waking up or kind of in transitional periods between sleep and being awake, I hallucinate vividly.
AM: Not cool.
JG: Uh huh. Yeah. And they are often --
JS: That’s one way to describe it.
JG: deeply terrifying.
JS: Okay. I'm sorry.
JG: Well – and, and – but they – so, they were very, very frightening until I – honestly, until I got to college and started talking about them, and realize that --
AM: Sure.
JG: -- you know, I wasn't either – you know, there wasn't something deeply --
AM: Psychosis or something. Yeah.
JG: Yeah. Or, that like I hadn't figured out that there actually was a secret demonic conspiracy to take over the world and that like, you know, I --
AM: You did good.
JG: Each morning, I was waking up being like, “Aah, that couldn't be real,” and just letting them spread further. But – so, my, my first night in the dorm, we had – because we were in a dorm, duct taped a bulletin board to a wall.
AM: Sure.
JG: And, in the night, it fell. And, so, it makes a loud bang. Both my roommate and I sit bolt upright, but neither of us know why we've woken up.
AM: No way.
JG: And I looked down at the end of my bed. And there's a small girl crouched in a dirty white dress with like stringy blond hair. And she looks at me and then looks over across the room at my roommate and raises up her hand to throw a shoe that she's holding at him. And I scream at the top of my lungs, “Don't do that. That's my roommates.”
AM: Oh, no.
JS: Oh, man.
JG: And he goes, “I'm sorry. What?”
AM: No.
JG: And I point down to the end of my bed, and there's nothing there.
AM: Oh, boy.
JG: And I look back at him. And I look at the end of my bed. And I turn over and go to sleep.
JS: So, Jeffrey, how long did that guy stay your roommate for?
JG: You know, actually, a full year.
JS: I'm just curious.
JG: No, no.
JS: Oh, wow. That's impressive.
JG: Fortunately.
JS: My roommate left after a semester. So, I, I just – I can't judge.
JG: He, he did withdraw at the end of the year.
JS: Okay. There we go.
AM: But like probably unrelated to their, their first night as roommates together.
JS: Probably.
JG: Gosh, I had.
AM: You know, on the one hand, like that, that area between sleep and wake, you know, even, even if you have a kind of more, more standard like sleep, whatever, situation, you know, you can still be unsure if you're sleeping or waking. Like that's real.
JS: Oh, yeah.
JG: Sure. Oh, yeah.
AM: You sleep in the middle of the night and have full conversations with you like that, that kind of sleep – sleeps shit is scary, man.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And that really – just because – like we all think that it's normal that, for a quarter of our day, we just all are unconscious. And that we have vivid lives when we're doing that, that aren't actually real and that are of our own creation. Like just the whole – if, if I like take two seconds to think about sleep for too long, I just like frickin’ go there. You know what I mean?
JS: Listen, I, I have straight up woken up to like convinced that someone was whispering, whispering in my ear, “Kill them. Kill them all now.”
AM: Oh, my god. What the fuck?
JG: Nooo!
JS: It’s my brain. Like, okay, brain, like that's where we wanna go tonight? Okay.
AM: Oh, boy. But like I mean --
JG: We’re playing that? Good boy.
AM: -- it sounds like your – sounds like your experience is a – is a degree more extreme than that.
JG: It's often very terrifying. You know, partners and roommates have gotten used to kind of being like, “No, be cool. You're fine.”
AM: Right.
JG: There's nothing here. And then like, “Oh, okay. Cool. I’m just gonna go back to sleep then.” But I do think --
AM: Do you have a like touchstone style or strategy? You know what I mean? Like or – like do you have a kind of process around that? Sort of like reality checking?
JG: Yes. Yeah. And, and, actually, often, it is watching how the people around me are reacting to things and saying, “Okay. Are, are these people panicking? No? Is it – is it – does it make sense that there is a skeleton hanging from the ceiling?
AM: Yeah.
JG: No, not really. Okay. So, I can probably eliminate that safely.” And, again, like we can meet way easier when I, I kind of knew – when I got to know other people who had this.
AM: Yeah.
JG: And got to – could, could put a name to it, because I could say okay.
AM: Absolutely. Yeah.
JG: This is – this is the thing I recognize rather than having --
AM: For sure.
JG: -- to sort of fight that fight every night.
AM: Yeah. And like, you know, treatment strategies and, and all that kind of stuff. It sounds similar to sort of, you know, panic or anxiety management, you know, and, and kind of strategies that I used too and saying like, “Oh, well, you know, okay. Like let's actually try to think, you know, is this scenario likely or can I, in this moment, control this feature that my brain is obsessed with, you know, thinking about.”
JG: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
AM: But ghosts.
JS: Yeah. But ghosts.
JG: But ghosts. Well – and, you know, I think there's, there's probably a lot of connective tissue there, especially with weird sleep habits.
AM: I don't think so. They're, they're really incorporeal. That's really what defines a ghost.
JG: But I’m --
AM: Hey.
JS: That was a really bad dad joke. That’s a terrible dad joke.
AM: Yes. I manage to make the guest sigh in exasperation.
JS: It's the goal every time we have a guest on for Amanda.
AM: Yes.
JG: I'm, I'm --
JS: You did good.
JG: Yeah.
AM: But, no, actually, I love metaphor and, and, you know, symbolic linking. But, yes, there, there is a lot. There, there's a reason that these stories are coming up at the same time.
JG: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Have, have you guys ever run into a ghost in the wild?
JS: Yes. I told this on our, our hometown urban legend story. But I almost – so, Amanda and I did theater in high school. I started dating my current boyfriend in high school. And we had – we were – had like a – we were coming home late after a hell night. And I – we stopped the car to just like --
AM: But the hell was just beginning.
JS: Yeah. The hell night was just beginning. We – you know, we stopped to make out for a little bit in his car. And then like a shadow went by. I got distracted. And then I looked up. And it was like a foggy night. And I saw a figure with like a large dog standing under a spotlight. I was like, “We need to leave now, because we're gonna get murdered.”
AM: Yeah. Her – we, we've been in some situations where like our horror movie instincts – we went against what we knew to be wrong . Like just us together like seems creepy. We're out here. You know, a creepy guy in the street, cross the street. Like, you know --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- we were pretty good at like – at minimizing our chance of getting murdered I guess.
JS: I, I, I am guilty of – I get like really bad anxiety when I'm in a house alone. So, I'm just convinced that someone is going to break into the house and try and murder me. So, I've been guilty of the hearing of voice – not hearing a voice, but hearing a noise downstairs and grabbing like a baseball bat or something and going to check it out.
AM: Yeah. Every time someone knocks on my apartment’s front door that I'm not expecting – and like I have a peephole. So, on the way to the peephole, when I'm looking to see who it is, I'm just like, “What – is this the person that's gonna try to murder me?” And like I have a – I have a weight and the leather man right next to my, my door.
JS: So, helpless.
AM: I have not yet opened the door with them in hand, because, if I felt that bad, I wouldn't open the door. But, like the other day, like a postal carrier came to my front door. And I live in like in a big apartment building. So, normally, they don't come to your actual door. But he was just like dropping out packages or whatever. And, so, I stood there for like a good like five seconds. I was like, “Dress like a postal worker, seems like a postal worker. This would be a great way to murder me. Am I gonna answer this door or not?” And, so --
JS: I kind of want my package though.
AM: It, it happens to me. Also, I wasn't expecting the package. So, I --
JS: Oh, okay.
AM: It ended up being a normal postal worker, y'all. Don't worry. But, yeah, it was --
JS: Didn't get murdered. Not Amanda's ghost town [Inaudible 42:05]. No.
AM: I, I, I don't know. Do ghosts have local connections?
JS: Actually, no. Actually, I haven't touched you yet tonight. So, hold on. All right. We're good. We're good.
AM: But no. I mean, ghost stories, I – you know, I'm a pretty skeptical person. My great grandmother, my grandma's mother, was around when I was growing up. And she was the child of German immigrants and had to like talk about grandpa a little bit and like had a little bit of kind of lore to her. And, also, had like the sight. You know, like sort of like a premonitory dreams or --
JS: Seeing ghosts and shit.
AM: Not like even – yeah. Like I think she'd had a couple of experiences where she was like able to kind of talk to you or had the experience of talking to people who had passed away. And my grandma occasionally had that experience like, you know, with, with her own mom after she passed. But it's not a thing that we like talk about a lot, which is sort of – that's why I love those sorts of stories, because it feels like – it feels embarrassing and impractical, you know. And, so, like, of course, you don't talk about a thing that you don't think is probably normal. And, so, that's what makes me sort of believe in it a little bit, you know, over the like, “Oh, man, I totally saw ghosts last night.” Like that is like, “Okay. Whatever, buddy.” But that, that is what really gets me. It’s the kind of small moments, where the person's like, “You know, if, if you really want to know,” and then they go into it.
JS: I, actually, just thought of another one. Hold on. So, my mother, when I was younger, probably like early teens, she used to like to drag me to garage sales quite a bit.
AM: I still drag you to garage sales. Thanks, babe.
JS: I know. Yeah. And, so, we went to a garage sale. And it was – it was like a full house garage sale. It was an estate sale.
AM: Oh, no. Those I don't fuck with.
JS: Oh, yeah. You don't fuck with those. But my mother was like, “I need this – I need a --
AM: No.
JS: -- a singer sewing machine. We're gonna go and find one.” I’m like, “Okay.”
AM: I mean I make way for a singer sewing machine.
JS: Yeah.
AM: But I. I don't wanna walk into a house that was recently vacated by a spirit. I just don't --
JS: So, I walked in.
JG: Oh, look at this gorgeous necklace. It's very old.
AM: Yeah. Look at this mysterious box that, when I opened it, Robin Williams comes out. Like, “No, no. Jumanji. Is that it?”
JS: Yeah, yeah. But he's – okay. All right. All right. Whatever. I’m not gonna go into the specifics of Jumanji. Robin Williams is not a ghost in Jumanji. Whatever.
AM: Okay. Whatever. Whatever.
JS: So, we're going through this house. And we walked into a bedroom. And I walked in, and it's like the middle of summer. And I immediately get cold. And I'm just like – I turned to my mom. I’m like, “I do not have good vibes.” And my mother's like, “It's fine. There's a sewing machine over there,” and just like walked straight into the room. And, so, we go over. We looked at some stuff. And then two small children probably like seven or eight walk in. And one child turns to the other child. He's like, “Yeah. This is where they found her. She died in here.” I was like, “Mom, we need to leave right now.”
AM: Oh, boy.
JG: Oh, no.
JS: It was probably like someone's grandma died in that room, and then, uhh, just like the whole thing.
AM: Yeah.
JG: Whoo.
AM: That's why I don't fuck with estate sales.
JG: Yeah.
JS: I know. You probably shouldn't do that ever.
AM: No.
JS: Estate sales are fucked up.
AM: My sister had epilepsy when she was little and grew out of it, which was great. And I'm glad. But she would often have these little like micro seizures, where, instead of like a seizure as you think about it on TV, it just more looks like you're spacing out. And, so, for a toddler to be in the middle of talking to you and then just like – just like, just, just – I don't know – just eyes glazed, like that, that kind of experience was like terrifying, because it's like a medical event that I had to like be aware of as her caretaker. But, also, I was like, “What is she noticing that I’m not noticing? Like it was always like – like is there something here? Or, or --
JS: Oh, my assumption would be, “Oh, she's possessed now.”
AM: Right. Or like – or like that moment where you're talking to somebody and then their eyes like over your shoulder and like their face drops, because they like see an ex or they see something weird.
JS: Or like, when cats just stare into the corner of rooms, you're like --
AM: Oh, yeah.
JS: -- what are you see in there cat?
AM: Cat, what do you know that I don't? What ,what divine portents are you sensing?
JG: We have a friend who has trained their dog when given the command, Blair Witch, to go and stare --
AM: Oooh.
JS: Oh, no.
JG: It will go and stare in a corner.
JS: That's so fuck up.
AM: That's super fuck up.
JS: I, Blair Witch holds a special place in my heart, because my boyfriend, Jake, is a very big horror fan. And I was not until we started dating. And Blair Witch was the first movie that we – he sat me down. He's like, “You're going to like this. Just sit down and watch this horror movie.”
JG: Was he right?
JS: And it scared the shit out of me. Yeah, I loved it. It just scared the shit out of me, because I kept expecting something to happen. And then nothing happens until the end of the movie. It’s just horrifying.
AM: No doubt.
JS: The suspense always kills me.
JG: Yeah.
AM: I have to watch that sometime then.
JS: Oh, yeah, you do.
JG: As a kid, the first time I saw The Exorcist. You know, slightly too young. I came home and my sister – my little sister, who is four years younger and who was, at the time, this very small, blonde young child.
AM: Nope.
JG: Got really sick.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: Oh, no.
JG: And was thrashing around and rolling in her bed all night down the hall. And I heard it all night. And I'm lying there like, “This is how I go.”
AM: And was just like covers up to your nose. Like, “This is it. It's been --
JG: Uh huh. Yeah.
AM: it's been good. It's been a good ride.”
JS: My sisters possessed, and she's going to murder me.
AM: This is how this ends.
JG: Yeah. If she crawls along, along the ceiling, I'm running.
JS: That was me with [Inaudible 47:24].
AM: Well, we all survived, which is great.
JS: We did.
JG: Yeah.
JS: No, none of us died too, too young.
JG: Too young?
JS: I say – I say like I died. And then I’ve been a ghosts this whole time.
AM: I guess people listening to this in 2080 could be like, “Well, yeah, they did have a pretty good – pretty good run. One of them died at 29. That sucks. Like, “Awww.”
JS: Oh, no. Please don't. Don't jinx us like that.
JG: Oh, no. There's a – there's a cursed episode.
JS: This is a cursed episode.
AM: That'll be a pretty good episode title.
JS: And I mean I think, tying it back together, I think the best part about that is it's, because every community has these small urban legends and small like ghost stories, that they're able to create this sort of universal genre of the, you know, the small town ghost story.
JG: Sure.
AM: Yeah, it's awesome.
JS: Right.
AM: It's like a small town diner. Like I will eat at any small town diner and it tells me so much about the town. You know I mean?
JS: And the ghost stories tell a lot about the town, too.
AM: They do. We should go on a tour of eating at diners. Listen to any ghost stories from people who live there.
JS: That would be great.
AM: That'd be amazing.
JS: New podcast coming 2019
AM: Sponsor us. Get on us. 2019, we can pull it together by – in 2018.
JS: We probably could do it.
AM: We can do it.
JS: Yeah. If we wanted to.
AM: Well, Jeffrey, thank you so much for coming on to our show.
JG: Yeah.
AM: I really enjoy you sharing your stories with us.
JG: Thank you so much for having me.
JS: Absolutely. And do you wanna plug anything before we go?
JG: Like you folks said at the beginning, I am the executive producer of another podcast called Our Fair City, which is an audio drama show that is currently in its eighth and final season. So, find us on iTunes or on social media under Our Fair City. There's also a great band that you’ll find on social media called Our Fair City, and follow them too. But don't follow them instead of us. They're, they're kind of a like a like 90s grunge you know,
JS: Nice. I like that.
AM: Oh, my gosh. Awesome. I love – I love that you're embracing the, you know, colleagues and non-competition angle. Like weird cross-pollination, but I'll take it, bro.
JG: So yeah, it’ll be very interesting to Spirits listeners, because it is about mythology and the supernatural in the Midwest. So, keep your ears peeled for that.
JS: We like that.
AM: So, into it. You said ghost in Ohio at the top of the episode. And I said, “Well, I'm in. I'm fully in.”
JS: You sold us on these things.
AM: Cool. Well, thank you so much. And remember listeners --
JS: Stay creepy.
AM: Stay cool.
Outro Music
AM: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
JS: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us on Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook, and Instagram @SpiritsPodcast. We also have all our episodes, collaborations, and guest appearances plus merch on our website, spiritspodcast.com.
AM: Come on over to our Patreon page, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, for all kinds of behind the scenes stuff. Throw us as little as $1 and get access to audio extras, recipe cards, directors commentaries, and patron-only live streams.
JS: And, hey, if you like the show, please share this with your friends. That is the best way to help us keep on growing.
AM: Thank you so much for listening, till next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil