Episode 59: Lạc Long Quân and Au Cơ
/Sometimes on Spirits we get stories that just have everything - action, monsters, romance, actual history, and empowering depictions of women. The story of Lạc Long Quân and Au Cơ is one of those lucky legends we’ve stumbled upon. We discuss amicable conscious uncoupling, Pokemon inspiration, Taco Bell’s new stolen slogan, and rage against (certain) Shakespeare productions. And hey, remember, you ARE the box.
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Transcript
AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 59: Lạc Long Quân And Au Cơ
JS: That was good.
AM: How did I do?
JS: That was pretty good.
AM: Not bad?
JS: I liked it.
AM: I am really, really stoked for these Vietnamese bits, we had an amazing time recording it. We also, uhm, I don't know just like I keep thinking about them.
JS: Yeah.
AM: They're such good characters.
JS: At when we finished recording Amanda turned to me, she's like, "That was a really good, like, start of the New Year episode." I'm like--
AM: Yeah.
JS: --"I appreciate that!"
AM: Yeah, truly.
JS: 'Cause that's really what I was going for.
AM: Do you know who deserves really good New Year's?
JS: Umm... probably our patrons.
AM: Our newest patrons! Julia, not you, Julia Rose though.
JS: I know. I was just like.
AM: I was like, did Julia pledge to our Patreon?
JS: I was like, did I pledge to our Patreon? I did not.
AM: Other Julia Rose and impostor Julia Rose. Terri, Fonda, Sigita, Stephanie, Talia, Abby, Iron, Molly, and Jillian.
JS: Hello, welcome!
AM: Welcome!
JS: Happy New Year to all y'all.
AM: Thanks for playing with us in the space.
JS: Yeah!
AM: And thanks also to our supporting producer level patrons: Neal, Chandra, Philip, Julie, Sara, Kristina, Josh, Eeyore, Ryan, Shelby, Lin, Mercedes, Sandra, Robert, Lindsey, Phil, Catherine, and Debra.
JS: Uh, we wish you have a hundred wonderful children if that's what you want in life.
AM: And if not, then you don't!
JS: Yeah.
AM: And you're happy with it. And no one ever asks you invasive questions, but if you're gonna have children
JS: Yeah.
AM: And thanks as well to our legend level patrons whose new box for the new month is going to go out in just about a week: LeAnn, Erin, Ashley, Shannon, Cammie, Cassie, and AshleyMarie.
JS: Hello, and welcome all of you to the New Year and to your awesome legendary year!
AM: Nice! And while we're on the topic of Patreon, we did just want to give you guys a quick note that we are now gonna be measuring our goals on Patreon in number of patrons. It's important to us that the community comes first and not necessarily money. Like, the money we make supports things that we want to do for the audience, not the other way around. Um, so we thought this was a good way to really just emphasize that to us and to everybody else.
JS: Yep! Uh, and we have some exciting stuff planned that we're still working out for our next couple of Patreon goals. Uh, and I think it's gonna be stuff that y'all will like.
AM: The closest one is our visit to Akron, Ohio, to the Spaghetti Warehouse, hopefully.
JS: I can't! I can't believe we're gonna do that!
AM: I, this podcast is amazing. But on that topic though, we, really want you guys to send us voicemails if you have been to Spaghetti Warehouse or if someone you know has been to Spaghetti Warehouse. Like, tell us just whatever your impressions were. Tells how the food was, if especially, there was a haunting type situation, we really want to hear it. Use the voice memo on your phone and email: spiritspodcast@gmail.com.
JS: Yes, we want your apocryphal or true-life Spaghetti Warehouse stories. I know, I know a lot of you have them. Please tell them to us.
AM: And we want them pretty soon, like in the next week, if you can, so when you listen to this episode, if, but if it's before like mid-January before sort of the end-ish of January, please email them to us and frankly, even if it's afterward if you're listening to this in the far future, and Julia and me are dead or not podcasting anymore. Julia, you're giving me weird look right there. I'm just saying it's gonna be out there in our emails forever! Email us your Spaghetti Warehouse emails, we really wanna hear them.
JS: Yeah, we want to hear your voices, too, so...
AM: Yes!
JS: Send them with the voicemails. That would be great!
AM: That's true for every urban legend by the way. If you wanna send us your hometown urban legend or especially have your grandparents talk about hauntings--
JS: Oh, yes!
AM: --we want to hear it!
JS: 100%
AM: We want to hear it! spiritspodcast@gmail.com Jules, what were we drinking this episode?
JS: We were drinking some champagne, Amanda because I have weddings of the brain.
AM: Yup.
JS: And so it seems like a very romantic drink to go with this, somewhat romantic story, I guess?
AM: And I was drinking it the way that, I think it was a Tom Hanks or somebody who talked about, uh, learning to drink champagne just in a big cup filled with ice. That's how you drink champagne. That way doesn't get so sugary you know and like it kind of makes any kind of lasts the day.
JS: I'm all about that. Thank you, Tom Hanks! Probably not Tom Hanks--
AM: Yeah.
JS: --probably Bill Murray or something like that.
AM: You know, might have been Bill Murray.
JS: Probably.
AM: I get those two mixed up. Anyway, finally thank you to our sponsor this week, RXBar, uh, which apparently is so famous that Julia's dad got Julia's mama baraquette for Christmas.
JS: Okay. She explained. My parents and my family and I every Christmas, we exchange Trader Joe's gifts.
AM: Ooh! I like that tradition!
JS: We do like to gift per person.
AM: Yeah!
JS: And you like, you know, everyone hands that person two gifts that they got for them. Specifically, they thought of them at Trader Joe's and my dad being the health nut that he is, got my mother, uh, the sweet sweet RXBars.
AM: They are sweet but naturally sweet because they are made up.
JS: I, I meant sweet like they're awesome!
AM: I was making a pun there my dude!
JS: Okay!
AM: They're made up of real ingredients.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Will tell him about you later but for now, you can go to our rxbar.com/spirits and enter promo code "Spirits" at checkout for 25% off your first order.
JS: That's a super good deal.
AM: It is a super good deal. We are really really grateful. Thanks again to our RXBar. And without further adieu, enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 59: Lạc Long Quân And Au Cơ.
Intro Music
JS: So Amanda, we don't often dive into actual history on the podcast, we tend to stay more in the realm of the fantastical and folklorish, right?
AM: We do! We do. Sometimes it, it you know tangentially kind of brushes against actual history, but most the time we're like, "Lol, I don't know what this was, but it's fun."
JS: You know every now and again there is a story that has some amazing mythology in it, but it's also rooted in history. Uh, like for example, we talked briefly about the Modjadji or the Rain Queen in South Africa.
AM: Yeah, we did.
JS: Remember that episode? Uhm, and I thought, "Hey, it's, it's been a while since we kind of touched on a topic like that." Uhm, so I wanted to dig into something that is both fantastic, and fantastical and historical.
AM: I love it. I love it.
JS: Uh, so we're going to take a trip to Vietnam.
AM: Ooh...
JS: Uh, specifically around the year 2793 B.C.E.
AM: Oh my goodness, that is a very long time ago!
JS: Yes, it is!
AM: Wow!
JS: But we got some historical records from there, Amanda!
AM: I wanna know about it!
JS: And some cool folklore!
AM: Ooh!
JS: This is the story of Lạc Long Quân, uh, which literally translates to the "Dragon Lord of Luck."
AM: Uhm, I'm in.
JS: Uh, I'm going to say straight up right now. I am sorry if I mispronounced anything. I did try my best and did a lot of research. It was into a bunch of uh, small Vietnamese children tell this myth to me about 10 different times--
AM: Aww…
JS: -- via YouTube videos. Uh, but if I mispronounce stuff, I am very sorry. We're going to get into the myth but, first I kind of want to talk about what we know of Lạc Long Quân from a historical perspective.
AM: Let's do it.
JS: So Quân was the second Hùng king of the Hồng Bàng Dynasty, uh, which took place in ancient Vietnam.
AM: Okay.
JS: They were in power during the height of what we now know as the Bronze Age and they flourished because of their location along the water rice civilization in the Red River Delta.
AM: Uh, that sounds Red River Delta, like a fertile place somewhere you really want to be.
JS: Yeah, and where you can grow rice easily, and then you know, your society does well because rices feed the masses.
AM: And uh, and prosperity is power.
JS: Yes, absolutely. So the tribes of what would become Vietnam were originally unified by a man called Lạc Tộc, who consolidated the other tribes and succeeding grouping all of the vassal states within his territory into a unified nation, which was about a hundred years before Quâns reign.
AM: Wow!
JS: Lạc Tộc is regarded as the ancestor to all the Hùng kings, as well as the founding father of Vietnam and a Vietnamese cultural hero who taught his people how to cultivate rice.
AM: That is seriously a heroic deed.
JS: I know.
AM: You know like I get why that would be your founding father.
JS: I mean, so from a historical perspective, a lot of times when we talk about how civilizations are founded, it always starts with agriculture.
AM: Absolutely!
JS: So to have someone historically, provide the grain that becomes you know, the lifeblood of the people, so to speak.
AM: Yeah.
JS: It's a very, very important thing and of course he's going to be held to a high standard in folklore as well.
AM: I'm so stoked to see where the folkloric aspect comes in.
JS: Uhm, well, that's good because literally that's basically all we know about them from a historical perspective.
AM: Dope. Rice. Uh, goodbye.
JS: Rivers, cool.
AM: Rivers, bye.
JS: These were the people but we don't know anything about them. Okay. Uhm, so, the rest, the folklore aspect begins to kind of form as time goes on. Uh, for example, Lạc Long Quân was said to have been the descendant of Dragons, hence the, the, Dragon Lord of Lạc.
AM: Love it.
JS: Uh, and in most stories, he has some sort of superhuman strength, which comes from his dragon heritage.
AM: Wow! And I mean, like his, his actual feat of either you know, teaching or making possible you know, facilitating or, or whatever, just like giving the conditions for rice cultivation to flourish, that is superhuman, right? Like that is so punching above the weight of normal, like farm better there, you know, like, like it, it. I'm sure it just completely changed the path of the Vietnamese history.
JS: Yeah. And so that was his grandfather, but because they're the same descendants from--
AM: Dragon lineage, exactly.
JS: --the dragon lineage.
AM: Exactly.
JS: Yeah. The, that dragon lineage is really like helping him do kind of incredible stuff.
AM: Dragon went strong in his veins.
JS: Yes. Uh, so here's a good story of like, incredible feats that he did.
AM: Please.
JS: Uh, during Quân's time as a leader, the land was still underdeveloped and isolated. So, we're still in the process of the civilization beginning to flourish.
AM: So like, tribes and like discrete places, or it was kind of one unified empire but just kind of like disparate?
JS: Unified empire but think like early Rome.
AM: Okay.
JS: So speaking of like, slowly starting to build and expand...
AM: Yeah.
JS: But we're not at that level of prosperity at the height of the power of the group.
AM: Yeah, travel is harder, communication is harder.
JS: Exactly.
AM: Definitely, the, the average world that a person experiences was much, much smaller.
JS: Yeah. And I mean we're talking about 2793 B.C.E., that's when, uh, Lạc Long Quân was said to have started his reign.
AM: That is so much for my mind to wrap itself around.
JS: It's, it's crazy!
AM: It was a thousand years ago!
JS: I know, it's crazy thinking about just like how far we've come as human beings but also--
AM: I know.
JS: Like, oh, how we were telling stories 5000 years ago. That's insane.
AM: Yeah, and like making pots and knives and armor, which we still do. It's, it's crazy.
JS: Okay, uhm, so in the Eastern Sea, uh, there appeared a giant fish, which was known as Nekton. Uh, or as it translates directly from Vietnamese, "The Fish Monster."
AM: Okay. Yeah.
JS: Very straightforward names in this.
AM: I'm sure a lot is lost in translation.
JS: Oh, yeah.
AM: But oh, a giant thing in the sea, that's a fish monster, my dude!
JS: Of course. This fish had supposedly been around for centuries living much longer than any fish should--
AM: Yeah, yeah.
JS: --obviously. Uh, and had a mouth so large that it could consume a ship with 10 fishermen in one gulp.
AM: Wow! I mean like doable knowing what you know about whales, you know, and kind of other big creatures from the deep, but that is terrifying.
JS: So, whenever the fish would swim near the coast waves would reach the sky, and we draw multiple ships, and all people passing through the area were eaten by the fish.
AM: Wow.
JS: Which like, you gotta wonder who escaped to tell that story?
AM: Yeah.
JS: Because, gosh, that sounds like tsunamis that sounds--
AM: Exactly.
JS: --like you know
AM: Other freak occurrences--
JS: Yeah.
AM: -all kinds of stuff or even a slaughter if there was a kind of human-created event that no one took credit for.
JS: Uh-hmm.
AM: Um, but yeah, I can just imagine somebody from a neighboring town like taking their weekly walk, you know, over to trade with someone or confer with someone and being like, "Oh, my god."
JS: Oh, everyone's gone.
AM: You know, what, what hath nature wrought? Truly.
JS: Yeah, no. So the fish monster was said to live in a big cave under the sea. So naturally, as a leader, a giant fish-eating your subjects is probably a problem that needs to be addressed.
AM: Absolutely!
JS: So Quân is luckily a good leader, in that sense. He builds a huge ship, uh, makes a burning human-shaped piece of metal, and then sails to the cave.
AM: Like an effigy?
JS: Yes.
AM: Wow!
JS: It's like a, like a burning metal fishhook, basically.
AM: Oh! Some nice little burning metal bait.
JS: Yeah, so he lures the fish monster out of his cave with the human-shaped piece of metal because nothing says yummy like a burning metal human flesh.
AM: That's what I always say! Taco Bell, no rules just right.
JS: Damn! Sick burn on Taco Bell! Okay. Uhm, so the fish opens its mouth and tries to swallow the burning metal, but it burns its throat in the process.
AM: I just realized that [inaudible 12:42] Taco Bell
JS: [inaudible 12:45] I didn’t catch that either!
AM: Taco Bell's [inaudible 12:51] which like you're not gonna be doing if you run into the fish monster.
JS: No, no. But it's all, no rules, just right, apparently. Taco Bell is so loose with their like, their rules.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Like they can just steal other, other companies slogans.
AM: I know and Outback is like, "Just remember us man doesn't matter what you call us."
JS: Oh, no man, just like my grandparents give me a really nice $50 gift card to Outback, and Jake and I are gonna go immediately.
AM: Take me with you! I love their bread!
JS: Yeah, it’s good. So fish opens his mouth, tries to swallow the burning metal burns his throat in the process.
AM: No!
JS: In its panic, it tries to sink Quân's ship but the king takes his sword and slices the beast cutting into three pieces.
AM: Uh, okay.
JS: Superhuman strength.
AM: Yes, I see is superhumanly long sword because it seems like cutting a watermelon, right?
JS: He's like gets slowly.
AM: He's gonna like take you a while to get around that, that diameter.
JS: I just imagine it was like a butchering process.
AM: Okay. Fair.
JS: But, I don't know. Maybe, maybe, maybe the giant fish monsters' mouth was disproportionate to the of its body.
AM: Oh, yeah. Well, body-bait mouth!
JS: So actually a tiny body but Julian mouth.
AM: Like you, Julia.
JS: Thank you. Thank you?
AM: In, in wit and spirit like you, your wit is outsized to your body.
JS: Okay. I thought you were calling me a big mouth!
AM: Oh, no, no! Of course, I wouldn't! You're a good secret keeper and best friend.
JS: Yeah. Thank you, buddy. I'm really good at keeping secrets.
AM: You are.
JS: I am.
AM: Except, except when he told the other people's secrets which is delightful.
AM: Will you like that, and you also don't tell people usually.
JS: No, I don't. Who else would I tell? It's just you.
AM: I don't know. Yes, that's true.
JS: Fish monster slain? Everyone happy, right?
AM: Yeah.
JS: Except--
AM: No!
JS: --giant fish monster is not the only monster that is out there ruining the lives of the Vietnamese people.
AM: I was sure that you were gonna to say that the three parts sprouted heads and became and like, grew from baby fish monsters into bigger fish monsters.
JS: No Hydra nonsense happening here.
AM: Okay. Dang.
JS: So Quân wouldn't be much of a king if he just managed to serve up some monster's Goi Ca Mai which is a raw fish salad--
AM: Ooh!
JS: --in Vietnam that I looked up.
AM: Nice Vietnamese reference girl!
JS: Thank you! So after he kills the monster fish, uh, he goes to Long Bien which is the home of a nine-tailed fox, uh, that lived for over a thousand years known as Ho Tien.
AM: Fall pics. Yeah.
JS: Yeah! Okay, cool cause we're going to actually take a second to sidebar and talk about Nine-Tailed Foxes, in general.
AM: Oh please. Yes.
JS: Okay. So Nine-Tailed Foxes, uhm, foxes, fox?
AM: Foxes.
JS: Foxes? Okay, so Nine-Tailed Foxes appear in a lot of Eastern Asian folklore, uh, though most of the stories tend to come out of China. Uh, nine-tailed foxes can either be good or bad depending on the story. Uh, normally, they were tricksters of some kind, very mischievous in nature, uh, and they would disguise themselves as beautiful women.
AM: Huh.
JS: Some stories would tell that in the form of women, they would seduce men and then consume their bodies or spirits.
AM: Dope.
JS: Cool, cool, cool. Uhm, but in this story, we can go ahead and see that, uh, Ho Tin is a malicious spirit.
AM: Okay.
JS: Living deep in a cave under a mountain, it would disguise itself in human form, lure women, bring them back to his cave, and then feed on them.
AM: So it was a male nine-tailed fox?
JS: Yes!
AM: Oh! Where all the men bad and all the women good? Or it depended?
JS: No, it depends.
AM: Huh!
JS: The, the lady spirits would often, you know eat the men, devour their souls or their bodies, so.
AM: Yeah, I feel like you don't have multiple genders in spirits a lot. It's always like the female Banshee or like, you know, the, the male this and that or the, I guess selkies had both, but it's kind of cool to have a like, fully fleshed out sort of, uhm, I don't know, like sociological profile of a spirit race, you know--
JS: Yeah, absolutely.
AM: --for things they like and places they live and, and different genders and families and stuff. It just, I don't know, it makes it seem more like a, a shadow, you know, species living amongst us then just like oh, that's you know, a Hydra.
JS: Yeah, I think that it's, it's good in the sense that it's not a gendering and then making one gender seem evil or what have you--
AM: Yes.
JS: --which tends to happen a lot and mythologies we've discussed in the past.
AM: It's equal opportunity.
JS: Yes, it is. Uhm, so Ho Tien, luring women, breed back to its cave and then feeding on them. Uh, the folks in the village nearby we're actually so afraid of the fox that they abandon their homes and farms to go to more peaceful places.
AM: Wow!
JS: So you got ghost towns happening, this fox is feeding on everyone. It's really bad.
AM: Yeah. It's really evocative image people going missing. Yeah, like that's, that's quite a thing to be reckoned with.
JS: It feels very much like Stephen King's "It."
AM: Yeah!
JS: Don’t it? Where it's just like no one talks about how all the children keep going missing for some reason. But--
AM: Yeah.
JS: --everyone just kind of ignores it.
AM: And again...
JS: But again, the situation they actually leave.
AM: And the kind of calamitous or tragic or like, not understandable event that leads us to seek meaning in mythology, and in lore.
JS: Yeah, might have a sickness or something at the time--
AM: Yeah.
JS: Something like that.
AM: --or abductions or suicide, or like, you know, who knows what was happening just regular, like walking off kind of abandonment, which I'm sure if you lived in a small village and needed to get the hell out, you know, that could sometimes happen. Uhm, so I'm really curious what happens with this folklore.
JS: Oh, well Quân hears about it, obviously, cause he's the king, he hears about all the troubles in his kingdom.
AM: Good.
JS: He's a very good king. Like I gotta give him credit. He's a very good king.
AM: I'm just gonna say I've been watching The Crown on Netflix, which I'm not usually like a kind of royal, I don't know, you know, watcher or like person who enjoys Victorian or British monarchical stuff. But this series is just delightful. There's a lot of like, symmetrical settees and like well-polished silverware, and like very beautiful like mirrored hallways. It's just like very soothing to watch. And there's a lot of people uhm, governing. Not governing, because I don't know at one point Winston Churchill's like there's a fog killing thousands of people a day in London because of cold pollution. It's fine. And, and Elizabeth is like--
JS: Shit.
AM: "Oh, yeah, the H-bomb sounds bad. What's that?" And, and the only cause she wasn't educated anyway. It's fine. It's very complicated. Uh, but there's a lot of people just kind of being more interested in, in governing the impression of the royal family among the public than actually governing the public, which arguably isn't the British Monarch’s job. I'm getting confused. Anyway.
JS: That, that just that explanation stressed me the fuck out.
AM: Yeah, yeah, that happens over the course of a whole season though, like all the plot points--
JS: Okay.
AM: --and otherwise, it's a lot of like horseback riding and uh, and, and like, eating breakfast on breakfast tables and breakfast rooms from breakfast trays for your breakfast, really.
JS: Naturally, naturally, that would all happen. Okay. So Quâns doing a better job--
AM: Oh good.
JS: --than the folks in the, in The Crown. Uh, so he takes his sword and he goes to Long Biên. Um, and he, you know, swords already killed one monster. He figures I could go ahead and kill this other one.
AM: Sure. Uhm, saving it's not even big enough to eat ten men in a boat.
JS: Exactly. It's fine. Uhm, so he goes to the cave, but the fox smells him before he can even enter the cave.
AM: Oh, no!
JS: Uh, but the fox thinks he's just some typical human and so he attacks him.
AM: *Sings* "What does the fox say?"
JS: What does a normal human being that he can kill?
AM: Okay. Okay.
JS: Um, so Quân uses magic to call the elements of the wind and thunder to trap the beast.
AM: Ooh!
JS: Basically, avatar-esque like, style.
AM: Oh yeah!
JS: It's wonderful. Uhm, so they're in this like weird stalemate for three days with Quân manipulating the elements while the fox tries to break free. It's like a really intense struggle--
AM: Wow!
JS: --Um, with like a lot of focus and you know, like just wearing each other down. Finally, the fox was weakened and tried to run away, but Quân quickly caught it and chopped its head off.
AM: Hey!
JS: Quân then managed to get into the cave and rescue those who were still alive and being tortured by the fox.
AM: Oh. Uh, A-that sucks, B-yey, Lạc Long Quân, they’re alive!
JS: Yeah, they're doing okay! It's all good. I just like the idea of like "Avatar: The Last Airbender" in like, for three days, some crazy giant fox creature.
AM: Yeah. And like, it, it makes sense too that you would need kind of uhm, help from the, from the supernatural or the elemental. If, you know your human strength and even superhuman strength isn't enough to deal with a creature that is, you know, somehow also magically supplemented. You kinda need like, to fight with like, and I think it, it, you know kind of emphasizes that idea that this lineage is, you know, imbued with dragon blood or descended from something divine or at least otherworldly. Um, if they're able to kind of channel you know, those forces that the rest of us human beings and subjects are subjected to.
JS: I agree. I think also the elements tend to play a lot into the role of just like Eastern mythology kings.
AM: Yes.
JS: They tend to be able to, like tap into that elemental spirit, which I kinda dig as a, as just like a concept. Like the human, the human king god thing for [inaudible 21:36]
AM: Exactly.
JS: They have more power because of their lineage meant to that.
AM: Yeah, it seems like the divine and the natural world are more closely married. Uhm, in some traditions from East Asia than they are in the ones that we grew up in where, it was sort of like, you know, this is the, the kingdom in which human beings live, but we're not like necessarily, uh, you know, tied to the earth which is why we're so bad at keeping care of it.
JS: Yeah, it's true. We're really bad at that.
JS: It wouldn't be a good story if there wasn't a hint of romance. Right?
AM: Hell yeah!
JS: I wanted to tell you a little bit about that. But first, uh, I need a refill.
AM: Okay, let's do.
Midroll
JS: So Amanda, I want to talk to you this week about RXBar.
AM: Yay!
JS: Adorable. Uh, so RXBar is a whole food protein bar. Now Amanda, growing up, my dad was a bit of a health freak.
AM: He was. He had lots of exercise equipment in your basement.
JS: Yes, and he had a lot of like protein powders and protein bars and stuff like that. And it was always encouraging me to try them. He used to make like, instead of regular brownies, he would make protein bar brownies.
AM: Aww, dad!
JS: They were the worst!
AM: So cute!
JS: Not really good. But like my point being, I never liked protein bars growing up. I would not eat them because they were gross and nasty and they always tasted really synthetic to me.
AM: Word.
JS: RXBar is not like that at all. They're actually super delicious. And that is because RXBars' core ingredients do all the talking for them. It's simply like eating three egg whites, two dates, and six almonds.
AM: Yeah, like on the packaging, which is really beautifully designed, they just have the list of things that are in it and it's like five things.
JS: Yeah!
AM: It's awesome.
JS: It's, it's no bullshit when it comes to their ingredients. Uh, and it turns out that real food ingredients actually tastes really good.
AM: Yeah, like when I was vegan, I would always eat cacao like that was the you know, version of chocolate I was able to eat and smoothies or you know, [inaudible 23:29] or whatever. And normally, if there's like cacao in something, you're just like, "Okay, it's vaguely chocolatey," whatever, but like this tastes like cacao! It's awesome.
JS: Yeah. So like, they'll have ingredients like cacao or actual real fruit or spices that aren't cut with weird ingredients.
AM: Yeah, and I love especially that they use egg white to kind of be their binder. Uhm, I again when I was in college and kind of like exercising really heavily, it was hard to find protein additives that you can actually digest like a lot of protein powders are just hard in the digestive--
JS: Yeah.
AM: --system and they can like stop things off and it's just not a good situation. But egg whites are really easy for your body to absorb.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And for those with food intolerances, they're also gluten-free, soy-free, and dairy-free. Normally, all those frees mean it tastes bad, but this one does not.
JS: No! And the best part is they don't add any sugar to it. It's all-natural sweeteners and stuff like that. So that real fruit that you're tasting, that's all it's in. It ain't no sugar in there.
AM: Yeah, I really enjoyed the peanut and chocolate version. It was a really good like, thing to have in the afternoon. I was gonna be recording later. So I wouldn't have time to eat before recording, but it really taught me over and it tasted like peanut butter and chocolate, which is exactly what I wanted to eat--
JS: Right.
AM: --but without being so like gross and sweet. That made me feel bad for eating it. You know, listen, it has a little bit of sugar in it, it's going to, but if you're, you know aware of what you're eating, and that's kind of a thing that you're eating mindfully instead of like a snack that you think of as having zero calories in it, it can be a really, really good part of your day.
JS: Yeah, and I, I would grab these on the go but before I get to work for breakfast, cause, let's be real. I don't have time for breakfast in the morning and then I just get really hangry by you know, 11 o'clock and no one wants that, especially when you're dealing with customers. No one wants to deal with a hangry, hangry person.
AM: I'm like the barista today who said literally no words to me during my entire coffee order.
JS: Nice.
AM: I walked in; she looked at me silently I ordered my coffee. She made it, held out her hand for the credit card. I gave it to her and then we all walked away.
JS: I mean, fair enough.
AM: And I was like, "Wow, thank you." Uh, but if you guys wanna try RXBar, you can go to rxbar.com/spirits. And when you're checking out enter the promo code: Spirits for 25% off your first order.
JS: Yeah, maybe you should order the chocolate coconut one which is my favorite.
AM: Yum! That’s again, rxbar.com/spirits. And thanks very much to RXBar for sponsoring us this week.
JS: Thank you! Now let's get back to the story.
JS: As we discussed earlier, Quân's relative was the founding father of Vietnam.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Well, you're about to meet the cultural mother of Vietnam.
AM: Yey!
JS: And that is Au Cơ according to some stories. It is included in the Vietnamese creation myth of where the modern Vietnamese people came from Au Cơ. And she is known as a immortal mountain fairy.
AM: Wow, I want to be her friend!
JS: I know! It's, it's such a cool concept. Also, I just like the idea of like, whatever she was probably didn't translate well, so we use the word--
AM: Right. Right.
JS: --fairy? Um, so she's obviously, she's not like, you know, fairy godmother or anything like that, but she's probably, I imagine she's probably closer to a nymph.
AM: Yeah, and even in British traditions, the word fairy can mean so much like British and Celtic and Norse like all of these different traditions have such different ideas of what spirits or fate or fairies or nymphs or sprites could be. Uhm, but yeah, I, I imagine it's not the like Tinkerbell kind of fairy, right?
JS: Right. No, I think she probably falls more into the like traditional forest spirit mountain spirit--
AM: Yeah.
JS: --but slightly more benevolent than the, the English fay would be.
AM: Right. So like kind of, as I what I think of as, like tree sprites or, or like woodland nymphs.
JS: Yes.
AM: Something along those lines.
JS: Yes. Um, and you'll see, she's a very benevolent character.
AM: Love it!
JS: She was considered very beautiful and lived high in the mountains. She was always isolated, uh, but that was kind of something she preferred.
AM: Cool!
JS: She preferred to like kind of live by her own rules and like visit people when she wanted to visit people but enjoyed being alone instead. I'm just like, "Hard same, Au Co--
AM: Power to you.
JS: --hard same.”
AM: Power to you.
JS: So she was a very sympathetic creature as I mentioned before. She would travel down from her mountain to heal those who suffered from illness--
AM: Aww...
JS: --because she was a well known and skillful healer.
AM: Dope.
JS: Yeah, so she's like, not even like using magic in order to heal people. Like, legitimately all the stories that I saw, like, make very obvious references to her being able to do medicine.
AM: Like herbs, salves, like actual medicine
JS: Exactly, like actual physical medicine and--
AM: Wow!
JS: --that's just like click, you're like touch your hands to someone and they're--
AM: Yeah.
JS: --here it's like that kind of thing.
AM: That's amazing!
JS: Yeah.
AM: Cause like, I, I've always been really drawn to Alchemy.
JS: Uh-hmm.
AM: I think because it's a mix of like magic and chemistry. Uhm, and it's, it's a really like tangible way to use magic and to, I don't know, just really be amazed at the, at the like hard process of getting a miracle done.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And I love here that the idea of like a, a divine healing or you know, tied to nature kind of like power. Uh, also refracts or reflects itself through like actual hands-on a body. You know, like, using herbs and salves and you know, whatever blood pressure type things--
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- to, to make people well.
JS: No, I like that a lot. Um, I actually, I think Alchemy, I just like, I want to go off track for a second.
AM: Let's do it!
JS: I super love Alchemy.
AM: Yeah.
JS: I think it's just like, fascinating concept of like, magical science--
AM: Yeah.
JS: --or like science magic. Like, one of those things, where it's just like, it's such a good precursor to what we understand now to be science.
AM: Yes.
JS: And I like this idea that, like, science is just like magic that we understand now.
AM: Yes.
JS: You know what I mean?
AM: Yes.
JS: Like we can create gold, we'd like, understand that like gold is one thing and like, whatever is another; but we can like create things if we like put the right molecules together.
AM: Yeah, or like you can make shit levitate with magnets right? Like you can make things change color or smoke with, uh, you know different chemical reactions, and it's just, it's so amazing to me like that's why we talk all the time about how mythology is an explanation oftentimes for stuff we don't quite understand--
JS: Hmm...
AM: --or things that we like, know the general shape of them, but the details are hazy. And like, I, I love studying, like, I was like a magic kid. But I like the occasional you know, documentary about people who do illusions in the present day. Cause it's just so cool to look at something be like, I don't know how the f that is possible, but actually it's the person doing it or I don't know how it's possible for scientists to know what antibiotics are gonna solve. Like, it's my body like, it's fuckin' amazing! It's so cool! And I don't know, as theater kids, both of us, you know, I think your parents and my parents also asked us, like, "You know, studying theater and knowing how stuff is done behind the scenes, doesn't that like diminish your enjoyment of seeing stuff?" And we're both like, "No man! Like, it makes so much better.”
JS: You appreciate the craft so much more.
AM: Yeah, you know, not just that this like a beautiful spectacle happening in front of you, but all of the like human lives and sweat and blood and tears that are going into making this thing possible. Uhm, and I don't know that's why I, I love chemistry a lot. I love medicine a lot.
JS: Uh-huh.
AM: And I really dig these kinds of traditions to tie back to the myth of you know, it's not just that you are using your sword and your strength and your, you know, rule to make people's lives better but like you're going out there like summoning you know, the will and spirits and, and whatever kind of divineness you have within you to conquer monsters.
JS: Yeah. And I want to kind of go back to just the idea of magic being science we understand.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Uh, and I wanna talk, I want to make a recommendation--
AM: Ooh!
JS: --and that would be Sawbones, which I know--
AM: Yes!
JS: --you listen to.
AM: I do!
JS: But, I don't know if all of our listeners listen to.
AM: Yes.
JS: Uh, and Sawbones is a marital tour to misguided medicine?
AM: Marital tour through misguided medicine. Yeah.
JS: Yeah, uh, and it's very, it's wonderful. But it's basically all about how we didn't really understand how medicine works. And we got a lot of it right through just trial and error.
AM: Yes. So Dr. Sydnee McElroy and her husband, Justin, have this podcast where they talk about medical history which Sydnee is really, uhm, really into. And they take us through yeah, what was right, what was wrong all the ways in which like, we figured it out somehow through just, you know, accident or intuition, uhm, and the ways in which we were really really wrong.
JS: Yes.
AM: Like, they love, they love to just quote Pliny the Elder who's like, "I don't know throw a herb on it.” or you know--
JS: uhhhh... drill a hole in your head!
AM: "It's fine. It's fine. Just like, just bleed it, just bleed it, you're bleeding so much, just bleed it." And, and, anyway, it's, it's A-amazing that humans ever got to the level of medicine that we have now where we can actually like, save and extend life in meaningful ways. Um, but also, I don't know, it's just, it's so amazing.
JS: But my, my favorite stories are the ones where it's just like, "Yeah!" Like someone figured out like, "Charcoal's okay, it doesn't solve all your problems!"
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
JS: But like, sometimes it's good!
AM: They're like, "Aspirin man, does a lot of things! Reduces heart attacks, I don't know, keep taking it!"
JS: Honey like, strangely antibiotic for some reason.
AM: Yeah!
JS: Who the fuck knew?
AM: Yeah. I don't know, I feel like plaster a wound and I don't know, not let it be exposed to the germy, germy air then it might end up being better.
JS: Sometimes humans are just wonderful we just figure stuff out and it's great.
AM: Or the one guy who was like, "You know what guys? Hold on! I think I should wash my hands before operating on a body."
JS: Yo, crazy!
AM: Come on, man like, "Uh, so good!"
JS: Okay. My point of this being--
AM: Oh, yes the mountain spike.
JS: --Au Cơ figured out a lot of this stuff because she was an excellent healer and like actually knew how to do medicine and according to the stories.
AM: Introverted. Lived her life. Power to you lady.
JS: Just so good. Uhm, so one day, Au Cơ is down in a village helping some sick folks and is making her way back home after she killed them.
AM: Cool.
JS: But as she does so, a monster appears and frightens her. You know, typical.
AM: Girl in the woods.
JS: Yeah. So being a cool fairy lady, she turns herself into a crane and flies away.
AM: Nice.
JS: Uh, Quân is in the area at the time, and he grabs a rock and kills the monster for her.
AM: Oh, I thought you're gonna say he got rock to throw at her and I was like, "No, no, no! He's been so good!"
JS: Au Cơ stops to see who has helped her, uh, turns back into a fairy and they fall in love instantly.
AM: Aww, Julia!
JS: It's very cute. Uhm, so they get married--
AM: Aww...
JS: --and Au Cơ bears him an egg sac because fairy I guess?
AM: That sentence did not go the way I thought it was gonna go.
JS: Uhm, and from that egg sac, hatches a hundred children.
AM: Oh my god!
JS: Now these 100 children are very important because they collectively become known as the "Bách of Việt."
AM: Okay.
JS: These children would become the ancestors of the modern Vietnamese people, hence Au Cơ being known as "The Mother of Vietnamese Civilization."
AM: I love it and I love it, it's two people who like have dope lives and then fall in love.
JS: I know!
AM: Because there are so many stories where it's like something is missing or you're, you know, you need saving or often women like your lives are, are just lacking in some way. Uh, and then like love solves all the problems. But here they're like, "We both have pretty good chick going on!"
JS: "Wow! We're good!”
AM: The, the, you know, he slays monsters, knows what he's doing, good ruler, travels the land. And she's like, "Yeah, got my whole setup, got my house, got my vocation, to, to travel back and forth, see people when I wanna see them.
JS: Hmm.
AM: "Life is great." But then life gets better because you're in love.
JS: Yes! That's true. Uhm, so interestingly, supposedly, there's something called, "The Hundred Vietnamese Family Names," in that there are only--
AM: Oh!
JS: --about 100 surnames one can have in Vietnam.
AM: Sure.
JS: But, these names are all supposedly from the hundred children that are born in this story.
AM: That is really cool.
JS: It's super, super cool. I'm gonna link something about the hundred Vietnamese family names in the show notes. Because it's like a really fascinating thing. And like the breakdown of like, how many people have certain surnames in the country?
AM: Yeah.
JS: The thing--
AM: Wow!
JS: --like, that people study.
AM: That's amazing!
JS: It's really, really cool. So, however, these kind of stories don't always have happy endings.
AM: Oh, no!
JS: But this one is just like terrible, okay?
AM: Okay.
JS: It's not bad. Uhm, it's actually super amicable, despite their love for each other. Au Cơ desired to return to her mountain again.
AM: Oh my god! Hard same!
JS: Quân wanted to return to the sea where he lived.
AM: Okay. Wait in or at the sea?
JS: At. At the sea. "There's an underwater palace here you've been holding for me.
AM: No! I, I would know!
JS: I, I would tell you immediately if there's another water palace. Know me.
AM: Thank you.
JS: Um, so Quân was actually super chill about it.
AM: Okay.
JS: He tells her, "I am descended from dragons, you from fairies. We are as incompatible as water is with fire, so we cannot continue in harmony."
AM: Wow!
JS: Yeah!
AM: I, I so love that idea that you can like spend time with someone, have a really great experience, right like spend several great years or get something good out of it, whatever it is, and part ways, and like that is okay. Doesn't, you know invalidate what came before doesn't mean that you, anyone was a bad person. Like sometimes the, the, you know causes are just what they are.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And you can you know, be adults about it and, and be kind of compassionate and you know, move along.
JS: Yeah, I agree. Uhm, I think amicable like endings to relationships are tend to be kinda rare in modern-day.
AM: Especially in stories right?
JS: Yeah.
AM: Cause it's the, it's like, it's the fiery ones, it's the like huge magnetic romances that are like destructive or amazing or spark crust.
JS: Tear everyone else apart.
AM: Exactly. Or like the breakup that end with like several people dead or, or whatever it is, you know.
JS: Romeo and Juliet, we're looking at you. It, it's serious, I was thinking the same thing. Like, oh, my god. Good lord people.
AM: Assholes.
JS: Come on! Get it together!
AM: Oh, just never throw balls!
JS: You fucking teens!
AM: That's the best point of Romeo and Juliet.
JS: Don't invite teens, to balls!
AM: Yeah, that's the end of the...
JS: Slash, don't have family feuds. Just never. Just don't.
AM: Just don't do it!
JS: Don't let it be intergenerational. Don't hold--
AM: Take care of your shit!
JS: --your grudges. Take to the grave with you! Come on!
AM: Bullshit, is what we're saying.
JS: Ugh! Just like super [inaudible 36:57] Juliet right now.
AM: I never seen any adaptation of [inaudible 36:59].
JS: How would that be like totally fine? We've never seen a production that ever again.
AM: Or you know what? I know this is, this is the we're talking about Woodland Faye here. I've seen a lot of "Midsummer Night's Dream." We've seen a lot of it.
JS: [inaudible 37:12] anymore just don't
AM: Like there's some good stuff in there. [inaudible 37:15] and we got a little bit that going on.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: But like, there's just a lot in there. It's a lot of songs, a lot of tinkerers, a lot of play within a play.
JS: Bad jokes.
AM: I know.
JS: Just unnecessary jokes.
AM: Though, I've seen the donkey thing done well once.
JS: The [inaudible 37:30] always bad though.
AM: I know. Exactly like when my brother played the wall in high school.
JS: That was incredible.
AM: And as the tallest person in his class, it was fucking adorable.
JS: Yes.
AM: Well done, Connor.
JS: But like, usually, it's terrible.
AM: This has been Shakespeare criticism with Amanda and Julia.
JS: I feel like we spent another 10 minutes doing that.
AM: We haven't even got into stuff we liked.
JS: Yeah, geez. Oh, man. Like that production of Hamlet though. Okay, so, context for our listeners.
AM: Yes.
JS: Amanda and I saw a production of Hamlet starred Oscar Isaac and Keegan-Michael Key, like a couple--
AM: Good lord. So good.
JS: --months ago. It was four and a half hours of wonderfulness.
AM: Two intermissions, four and a half hours, really hot day. We were both fuckin' there for it. We were settled in and it ended.
JS: So good! I wasn't even like tired by the end of it!
AM: No!
JS: I was kind of like, zoned.
AM: Yes.
JS: In the zone.
AM: So good. So spare. Like, Keegan-Michael Key brought a humor to the role of her ratio that I have never seen--
JS: Unbelievable!
AM: --in my entire life. And it wasn't like you get a comic on stage. You have to either be like, "This is a comic, okay. We know who it is," or be like, "Everything's terrible!" And like, totally dismiss, the, this baggage of the audience brings in.
JS: But he was both, he was created his role.
AM: He's very good.
JS: I don't want him to stop talking. Oscar Isaac was such a moody teen! He was also in his underwear like 90% of the time and it was so good!
AM: I know. He got wet and [inaudible 38:41] dirt.
JS: Booty! Booty. Uh, Polonius was super good at that production.
AM: Polonius was fucking hilarious.
JS: Amazing!
AM: Everyone's like uncle from the Upper West Side.
JS: I'm always so bored with character Polonius and like--
AM: But it was so good!
JS: --I actually look forward to see the scenes that he was doing.
AM: I was sad when he died.
JS: Yeah. Goodbye.
AM: I mean, like, I'm pretty sure that's what Shakespeare wanted me to feel. Polonius died. It's so rare that you get an actually, I don't know, like compelling and human interstitial character like that like whether it's The Porter and Macbeth just doing like law people just die, but it's fine knocking everyone's drunk. There's a fart joke goodbye. You know, like those, those kinds of scenes have a real purpose. But it's hard in this day and age when we care more about like the motivations of characters than we do. They're like archetypes to get something really relatable out of it, but they really managed to man.
JS: Shout out to our friends at Nebraska from Wolf 359, who did an excellent production of Macbeth where he played just a shit ton of roles that it was amazing.
AM: Including The Porter, right?
JS: Including The Porter--
AM: Yeah.
JS: Which was my favorite Porter scene I've ever seen. And I saw a production that had a, what's his face on it? Patrick Stewart.
AM: Yep.
JS: And damn!
AM: We did.
JS: Damn, that production was better.
AM: And, uh, if you're in New York, go to the Public Theater, see whatever is there. It's gonna be a good one.
JS: It's always good. Back to the story. Let's finish it up. And then we'll talk about more--
AM: Yey!
JS:
--Shakespeare. They break up.
AM: Okay.
JS: Amicable breakup.
AM: All right.
JS: Like solid divorce, uhm, like any good divorce, they split assets--
AM: Uh hmm...
JS: --and the assets in this case are their children.
AM: Okay.
JS: So they each get 50 children.
AM: Nice.
JS: Quân goes back to the sea in the south to his kingdom there, uh, while his ex-wife returned to the mountains of the North with half of their children.
AM: Nice.
JS: Au Cơ's children, like the ones that she raised, were said to have all been young, intelligent, and strong leaders who would become known as the Hung kings. In fact, the oldest son that followed his mother actually became Quân's successor and ruled as the next Hung king.
AM: That's kinda cool that he grew up with his mom and then ended up taking over his dad's job.
JS: Yeah, I, I like it a lot. I feel bad for like the eldest son that like Quân had.
AM: Yeah.
JS: But, like, it, it's made very clear that Au Cơ's side of the family were like the strong intelligent leaders because they were raised by a strong independent woman.
AM: Hey!
JS: Hot take, hot take, hot take! And so he became the next like, leader of that dynasty.
AM: Cool!
JS: And it was really, really cool. And that is the story of Lạc Long Quân And Au Cơ.
AM: Wow! I dig it so much! I just, I love that there's this again like you're saying at the very top. You know, 5000 years ago, human beings were still being human beings and to have people who you know have their own lives, meet later and you know literally life compared to, like the 15-year-old romance you know that, that people in Romeo and Juliet had. Um, and had some good times, decided to split and then just managed to like co-parent and uh, you know live their lives and like have a, have a dynasty and a legacy. I don't know I love it so much!
JS: Also like, just like a, like a great example of how one can have a successful life and like, a successful relationship even after the romantic aspect of your relationship is finished.
AM: You can have it all Julia!
JS: It's amazing! Doesn't have to be angry and bitter everyone. It's all good! You can live your truth in your life and it's excellent.
AM: You can. You can do it partner and you can do it not partner and you can partner with various people and genders and ages and occupations and places in your life like, life is a long rich tapestry, if we're lucky. And you know, you get lots of opportunities, be a lot of different people and to be lots of different people in that time.
JS: Yeah. I think if we learn anything from Au Cơ and Lạc Long Quân, it's just, just kind of like, “Live your truth.”
AM: Yeah.
JS: And like, even if it doesn't lead down the path that you think it's going to lead--
AM: Right.
JS: --you can still have a successful and fulfilled life.
AM: Yeah. And like real talk, one of the things that I'm thinking about in 2018 is all the ways in which, like self-definition is malleable. Like your idea of yourself is ever-changing, it’s dynamic, and it should be. I don't know, I, I kind of get caught up thinking about myself as like, the kind of person that does this. Or like, when we were growing up, I was like, you know, the bookworm or the mom or the stage manager or like, whatever it is. And when you are less unsure of yourself, whether that means that you're younger, or you just don't know what your identity is quite yet, it is so nice to find a box that kind of fits you and to be like, "Oh yes, like finally, this is me!" This is the shortcut people can understand what I'm about if I tell them like, "Oh, I'm a stage manager." Every single person who is an SM or knows what that is, it's just like, "Oh, I get you now." And like that gets you 80% of the way there. But, I don't know. Just like in my, in my mid-20s so far like I have changed so much; like things that used to be important to me aren't anymore and things that I never thought I'd be interested in I am. The emotional support that I need from people in my life is so much greater than I thought that I would need as a teenager who's like, "Stop. I don't need anyone. I'm fine." And thinking that Au Cơ could be like, "This is my life now, like mountain setup. I know what I'm doing. I visit villages, I help people like life is good. Or at least life is something that I can accept and feel okay about." And then you know, meeting someone completely shakes it up. And then, that isn't what she ended up doing either. Like you, you know, you can move past it and everything else is still valuable, even if it ends up ending.
JS: Yeah, I like that. And, I, I'm not sure how much this pertains to the story, but um, you mentioned like kind of putting yourself in boxes that--
AM: Yeah.
JS: --define you.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Um, and I think as, as I've grown older and as I've kind of been adapting more to like what my own self-identification is--
AM: Yeah.
JS: --I think, I'm, it's, it's better to have a Julia-shaped box that I put stuff into that define me--
AM: Yeah.
JS: --rather than boxes that I put myself into that define me.
AM: Wow, that's really profound. Yeah.
JS: Aww, thank you!
AM: I like that a lot. So just like cutting off little bits of yourself that you deposit into the, you know, occupation box or the hobbies box or the romantic partner box.
JS: Just into you.
AM: Yeah. Wow! I like that. Now, now picturing like walking around, like, you know, like a, a lego. Actually, it's a lego palace, a lego store, which [inaudible 44:43] like a palace to me.
JS: I, I love a lego palace.
AM: Or a Dylan's Candy Bar so that we could like take a little bit out of each, like a, like a, a choose your own.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Where "pick n' mix" as they call it in the UK, like yourself. You are a pick n' mix.
JS: Yes.
AM: You don't have to fit into any one of them. You can take little bits, you can put them back, you can hold it up at the back some sanitary. Nevermind. You can discard them. Or you know you, you can, you can refill yourself as time goes on.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And uh, I don't know that's just, it's so freeing to think like, "This is what I like now and this is right now what myself is composed of, but like the, the outline of myself will remain even if the constituent parts change over time."
JS: Yeah, I, I like that a lot. I think it's just so much better when people like, "I don't put myself in a box man." Like of course you don't because you are the box!
AM: Hey.
JS: You're the box that makes up, like yourself, and then all the things that you put in there define you. It's not putting yourself into different boxes.
AM: Hot take. That's beautiful.
JS: I love it.
AM: I love it.
JS: Aww. Yey!
AM: Thank you Juls for sharing this.
JS: My pleasure Amanda.
AM: So listeners, remember that, that you, you are the box.
JS: You're the box.
AM: You are the box.
JS: Maybe your box lives on a mountain is like totally chill, just being very much introverted. Or maybe your boxes out there slaying some giant monsters. Maybe your box reaches a point in life where you're like, "Finally, this is me, and I am so content and my life is fulfilled," and then falls in love.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And then, then your box just gets a little bit bigger and has more space to put things.
AM: Oh, very sweet.
JS: Aw.
AM: And while you figure that out y'all, remember: Stay creepy. Stay cool.
AM: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin McCloud and visual design by Allyson Wakeman. Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us on Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook, and Instagram @SpiritsPodcast. We also have all our episodes, collaborations, and guest appearances plus merch on our website, spiritspodcast.com. Come on over to our Patreon page patreon.com/spiritspodcast for all kinds of behind the scenes stuff. Throw us as little as $1 and get access to audio extras, recipe cards, directors' commentaries, and patron-only live streams. And hey, if you like the show, please share us with your friends. That is the best way to help us keep on growing. Thank you so much for listening. ‘til next time.
Transcriptionist: Jayzelle De Leon
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil