Episode 235: Beauty and the Beast (Myth Movie Night)
/Here comes the podcast, with its myths like always. We’re covering the origins of the classic, Beauty and the Beast, and decide that if we try, we can all be disembodied himbos.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of Stockholm syndrome, family abuse, death, imprisonment, institutionalization, illness, misogyny, infertility, birth, marriage, spousal murder, poverty, animal marriage, explosions, unrealistic beauty standards, and arranged marriages.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends The Upward Spiral Workbook.
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Transcript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is Episode 235: Beauty and the Beast for Myth Movie Night. I'm very excited for this one. It's been a minute since we've done a Disney one and I really love Beauty and the Beast. And I will talk about why in the episode. So, no spoilers.
Amanda: I was so delighted to learn more I was just sort of like, “An allegory. It’s Beauty falling in love with the beast. Look within.”
Julia: Hahaha.
Amanda: But there's much more to the story and the history of the story. And I was so, so excited to learn about it.
Julia: Yeah, I've been really on that fairytale kick lately. So, I'm glad that we've been doing more and more of those.
Amanda: Me too. And I am also so glad that a MorganJesse the Zombie Cling Wrap and Mectell are our newest patrons and here just in time for a banner Myth Movie Night. You join the ranks of our distinguished supporting producer level patrons; Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Bryan, Debra, Hannah, Jane, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Justin, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Liz, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Polly, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi. And, Julia, don't forget legend level patrons; Audra, Chimera or Change, Clara, Drew, Jack Marie, Jaybaybay, Ki, Lada, Morgan, Necroroyalty, Taylor, and Bea Me Up Scotty.
Julia: All those people, Amanda, they have an enchanted castle but with none of the downsides.
Amanda: No, they're preserved roses in a – in a Belle jar, never drop any petals.
Julia: No, not at all. All of their servants, people.
Amanda: All of their Angela Lansburys, woman. Not teapot.
Julia Not teapot. Amanda, speaking of Angela Lansbury, what exciting things—
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: —have been watching, listening to, and reading lately? Because I'm just thinking about Murder She Wrote now.
Amanda: I am thinking about the song, A Little Priests, from Sweeney Todd. Angela Lansbury wants me to have a meat pie of unknown origin and enjoy myself and so do I. And, guys, I have been having a very hard time lately. And something I have found very useful is a book that my friend, Taylor, recommended called The Upward Spiral Workbook: A Practical Neuroscience Program for Reversing the Course of Depression. And I have not used a ton of like workbooks, you know, self-helpy type situations. Like, I, you know, go to therapy, have my meds. Like, I'm doing all my things. But I find The Upward Spiral Workbook to be a really helpful way. Just be like, “Hey, babe today, what can you do that will make you feel a little bit better?” Maybe it's walk. Maybe it's yoga. Maybe it's, you know, eating one thing that you find really good. Maybe it's listening to music that, you know, you used to like and, you know, hopefully, it'll give you a little lift. And I just found this book very useful for kind of like reading a couple pages at a time, trying something, learning something. It's very supportive and nonjudgmental and humorous in a way that, like, really gets me in the gut, where I'm just like, “Oh, thank you, you understand.” So, if anyone else is feeling that way, listen, I get you. I believe in you. And maybe you'll find The Upward Spiral Workbook to be helpful too.
Julia: I know you've said in past episodes that you'd like to have homework from therapy and this sounds very much up your alley given I know that about you.
Amanda: It does. There's parts to color in. It teaches you about the brain. It’s coloring parts.
Julia: Ooh.
Amanda: And I'm just like, “Okay. You know what? I'm just gonna trust that this book probably knows some things and I'm just gonna go along with it, see what works.” And, you know, it's been pretty helpful.
Julia: I'm glad. I'm glad. If you are also, you know, not, not feeling your best lately, maybe you need some cheering up. Maybe you need some laughs. Maybe check out our variety of live shows that are available at multitude.productions/live. They’re live shows that we have the video-on-demand for. You can still get that video and you can watch us goofing off and having a good time.
Amanda: We try to keep it actually to a tight 90 just like Beauty and the Beast.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: In general, it's been a super fun thing for us to have done and connect with each other, connect with you all over the last year and change. And something that we're gonna intend to keep doing so that, no matter where you are in the world, you can enjoy one of our live shows. And all of that is at multitude.productions/live. Julia, here goes the podcast with its intro like always.
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: It's time for us to get into it. Everybody, please enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 235: Beauty and the Beast Myth Movie Night.
Intro Music
Julia: So, Amanda, when we were discussing the Sinbad episode recently, we were talking about the kind of animated movie Renaissance during the 90s and the early 2000s, right?
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Julia: And it kind of made me think, “Hey, whoa, we haven't done a Disney Myth Movie Night in a while.” You'll remember that Hercules was one of our earliest ones. And, obviously, that one was, like, chock full of good, good myth content for us to dive into. But a lot of the other Disney movies that are well known either we've covered before like Mulan or are sort of like classic fairytales that have been kind of done to death like Snow White. Sure, Cinderella's got some interesting global elements to it. But then I remembered a lovely email sent in by former guests of the show, Christopher Dole, who you might remember from our Death of Heroes episode. And he suggested that we take a deeper look into, actually, one of my favorite Disney movies, Beauty and the Beast, which, also, by the way, is celebrating its 30th anniversary this year, which is, you know, a great time to revisit now.
Amanda: It's so timely. And it is also worth re-watching, Julia, because it has my favorite quality in all of movies. Can you say it with me? It’s tight 90.
Julia: It’s tight 90. Tight 90.
Amanda: It’s tight 90. It’s tight 90. It’s exactly 90 minutes. It's amazing.
Julia: Jake has started using tight 90 to sell me on movies, where he's like—
Amanda: Oh, hell yeah.
Julia: —“We should watch Rush Hour. It's a tight 90.” I was like, “You know what? You're so – I’m sold on it now. Great.”
Amanda: You know what, Julia? Anyone can do a tight 90 of a movie. You can fit it in anywhere. It's amazing.
Julia: A movie is better, I would say, when it is the tight 90. I look at some movies. I'm like, “Yeah, I'm interested in that content. But, like, two and a half hours. Hmm. I don’t think so.”
Amanda: A tight 90, it's two podcast episodes of roughly 45-minute length like Spirits.
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: It is a manageable drive that barely counts as a long drive. Oh, it’s perfect. Mwah.
Julia: [Chuckles] So, today, we are visiting the tight 90 1991 Disney classic here. But I do want to take some time to talk about other versions of the story that have been told around the world as well as the original French fairytale that was written by Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villeneuve.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: Haven't broken out my French in a while. I thought that was pretty good.
Amanda: Madame [Inaudible 2:14 – Kafeliacos] would be so proud.
Julia: She would be.
Amanda: Yes, Julia’s French teacher was Greek.
Julia: She was super Greek and also very young and very attractive. It was a problem.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah, it was.
Julia: But, first, Amanda, recap time. And it's been a minute since we've done one of these. So, I kind of lost track as to whose turn it was.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: So, I'm gonna tackle this one.
Amanda: Which I really appreciate, Julia. And, as always, you have two minutes to do this recap and anybody who, for some reason, doesn't know the plot of Beauty and the Beast, you're welcome to skip forward by two minutes exactly. And you will not get any, you know, plot details.
Julia: I just took a big sip of water. I put some ChapStick on. I'm ready to go.
Amanda: Okay. So, skippers, two minutes. Julia, go.
Julia: We start with a little bit of a prologue where we learned that a rude prince and his very nice staff have been cursed by a witch because he's a rude boy. And he'll remain a beast forever until he learns how to love another or be loved in return. But he has to do it before a magical rose loses its last petal. Smash cut to Belle, who's cute, smart, loves reading, everyone in town think she's super weird. And her dad is also kind of a weirdo inventor. Gaston’s the only one who's really, like, vibing with Belle. And it's only because she's hot and she's just not into that. So, her dad goes off into the dark woods to show off an invention of his at some fair but ends up at the beast’s castle, who throws him in the dungeon for trespassing. Belle goes out to find her father and also winds up in the castle and was like, “Let my father go. I'll take his place,” which the beast agrees to. Belle’s hot. So, she's way better accommodations than her dad got in the dungeon. And she ends up meeting all of the castle servants who we now know are enchanted to look like furniture. They are super into Belle being there and are all about maybe getting Belle and the Beast to fall in love in order to break the spell. At one point, Belle tries to escape and is attacked by wolves. And the Beast saves her and Belle nurses his wounds and this kind of starts off the falling in love montage that Disney loves. Maurice, who’s her dad, shows back up in town and is yelling about a beast and a castle, which everyone thinks he's just like making that up. Maurice heads back to the castle to try to rescue Belle while Belle and Beast are kind of doing they're falling in love thing. And Beast shows Belle that – this, like, magic mirror, which allows her to basically see everything, which is this scrying mirror. Very cool. But she sees her father, like, dying in the woods and is like, “I got to go help him.” And the Beast was in love with her. So, he, he’s like, “I can't force you to stay. Please go.” The villagers want to throw Belle's dad into an asylum in some weird plot points so Gaston can marry her. But Belle shows them the beast in the mirror and they go all angry mob. And they want to kill the beast. Everyone heads back to the castle. Gaston faces off against the beast. Stabs him, but then falls to his death.
Amanda: 10 seconds.
Julia: The Beast is dying in Belle's arms. The final petal of the rose falls, but Belle admits she loves the beast. And the spell is undone and everyone returns back to normal. And the Beast is somehow less hot as a human in the end.
Amanda: He is. He's less hot as a human. Well done, Julia. Exactly two minutes. A tight two.
Julia: Damn. I’m, I'm good. What can I say? So, I love the Disney movie version. Amanda, we were talking about this earlier when you re-watched it. Tell me about the Disney movie version and your experience with it.
Amanda: Well, this is my dad's favorite movie. It came out the year before I was born. And he would watch this a lot as – when I was a little baby. And then my sibling, Connor, followed. And they had two kids under two and we’d would just watch this over and over again. And he loves it a lot. And, so, I was just going in really not having watched it since I was a little kid. I can't even remember sitting down to watch it. It was just sort of like always vaguely familiar. It was lovely. I'm always surprised by the kind of humor in children's movies, specifically, these Disney Golden Age movies, where there's like – there's stuff going on in the background of the frame.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: You know, there are – there are people living their lives like little jokes like a mom with, like, too many kids trying to buy eggs, you know. And it makes me laugh now. Whereas child me will be following, you know, the protagonist or listening to the song.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: I am amazed that that teapot looks so much like Angela Lansbury.
Julia: It does.
Amanda: That was mainly what I was thinking about throughout this movie.
Julia: It's like they cast her and then they designed the teapot around her instead of vice versa.
Amanda: I bet they did. As well they should.
Julia: You also said you got surprisingly emotional in the little pot.
Amanda: I did. You know, it just – it hit me hard. Just in my, my week, my day, I’ve having a very hard time. And I think the images of people being tender toward each other and of the staff. Like, let's lay aside for a moment the sort of like classism of like there's a servant class and – okay. But seeing these staff members who clearly care very much about the beast, be so tender toward him, and him being receptive to that and sort of learning from them and, like, taking their love as a cue to perhaps turn that onto himself just really hit me hard. And I thought it was absolutely lovely.
Julia: Aww. Okay. Yeah, that's, that's beautiful. We're not gonna talk about that as much. But I feel like we can apply that lens to some of the other versions of the story that we're gonna talk about today. Obviously, like, people are going to bring up the kind of lukewarm Stockholm Syndrome is bad take with these stories. But other people have talked about this before, who probably have much more intelligent things to say than I do. So, we're just gonna jump right into the meat of it and talk about the original fairytale. So, like I said, it was originally written by Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villeneuve and it was published in 1740. This, of course, is the first written version of the story as the story was, like, originally a oral tradition and kind of was inspired by a bunch of different things, which we'll talk about later. Villeneuve's story is, obviously, as is true with most Disney adaptations, wildly different from the story that Disney presented in their film. Villeneuve's original version was actually quite long and a little bit complicated. In fact, it was, like, written as a novel for, like, the salon set during this, like, 1740s Paris vibe.
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: Isn’t that neat?
Amanda: Yeah, when everyone was like, “Coffee, so exotic. Let us sit in the room and drink it.”
Julia: Yes. And talk about things and ideas. But, yes—
Amanda: Exactly.
Julia: —it was basically written for that. I'll tell you the exact length and stuff like that later on.
Amanda: Oh, good.
Julia: The more popularized version that we know is actually the rewritten and abridged version by Jeanne-Marie Leprince de Beaumont in 1756. And that was later popularized by Andrew Lang in The Blue Fairy Book in 1889. This is a long novel. It is over 300 pages long. I am giving you the TLDR version of the tale.
Amanda: It's the opposite of Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, which much shorter than you would think.
Julia: Much shorter than you would think, but, this one, much longer than you would think. The shortened version that Beaumont put out was, like, 27 pages. This one, I believe, was 352.
Amanda: Oh, my word. This is – in, in the way that like a reverse Benjamin Button situation is just aging, this is a, a reverse Frankenstein, which is, yeah, it probably was longer than the abridged version, you know.
Julia: Yeah. So, in this version, Belle translated to beauty, but we're gonna call her Belle because that's the French word for beauty. And also, I know Belle from the movie, Beauty and the Beast. It's just easier to follow. In this version, she is the youngest of 12 children; six sons and six daughters. And her father is a widowed merchant. The plot kind of starts with this catastrophe as the merchant is robbed by pirates and the pirates sink all of his ships, which kind of forces the whole family to have to move to the country and, now, like, work for a living instead of just making money of mercantile businesses. Belle is like, “Okay. Well, I'm gonna make the best of this situation and I refuse to get down about this. Like, I'm not gonna, like, wallow in self-pity or anything. I'm just gonna, like, do what I got to do.” But her older siblings kind of see this
attitude and think, “Well, this is bullshit. You shouldn't be so happy about our state of affairs. Now, we're gonna make you do all the work,” which, you know—
Amanda: Ugh.
Julia: —Belle just kind of rolls with it. But it's a very, like, Cinderella kind of moment here.
Amanda: See, Julia, she's not just beautiful in looks but in character.
Julia: She is. She is as is most of the classic fairytale protagonists I feel like.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So, their father, a year later, finds out that one of his ships actually managed to escape from the pirates. And, so, he sets out to the big city to claim his ship back. He asks all his kids if they would like any gifts from his travels and all of his sons are like, “Swords, horses, bows.” And all of the daughters are like, “Dresses, jewels, perfume.” All but Belle, who is like, “I'm good. I don't need anything though. Thanks, Dad.” But the merchant insists and she's like, “Fine. Just be safe. That is your gift to me. And, if you must bring me something back, I would like you to bring me back a rose.”
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: So, the father sets off. But the problem is that the ship and the cargo have been seized to kind of pay off his debt.
Amanda: Sure.
Julia: So, all of his hopes are dashed. And he's unable to buy any of the gifts for his children that he had promised them. Not great.
Amanda: No.
Julia: Very disappointing.
Amanda Not how you thought the trip would go.
Julia: No. Returning home, he gets caught up in a storm in the forest and tries to seek shelter in this mysterious castle. He sneaks in and he finds that it's empty of people, but finds that the table is set full of, like, food and drinks, which he kind of just indulges in. He's like, “This is my house now.”
Amanda: Don't drink the fairy drink. Don't eat the fairy food. We’ve been over this.
Julia: Yeah. So, he sleeps there that night. And, in the morning, before he leaves, he sees that the castle has this beautiful rose garden. How convenient. Remembering that he couldn't buy any of the gifts for his children, but knowing that Belle had requested the rose, he picks one. Immediately, he gets accosted by the Beast—
Amanda: Uh-huh.
Julia: —who tells him that this is his castle and that theft of his property is punishable by death—
Amanda: Sure.
Julia: —including roses.
Amanda: Sure.
Julia: The merchant tries to kind of, like, beg off saying, like, he was only taking a rose as a gift for his daughter. And the Beast is like, “Fine. Since you've already plucked the rose, you may take it to your daughter, but only if you bring me your daughter in exchange for the rose.”
Amanda: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Julia: He also makes it very clear in the story that Belle has to agree to come to him. And he's not gonna treat her as a prisoner, but rather as a fiancé should she agree to the situation. But, if she doesn't agree to the situation, then the Beast will kill the entire family.
Amanda: And he is just like fully a beast? He's like, like a beast man.
Julia: He's just a beast man. In the summary that I was reading – because, obviously, I didn't read all 352 pages of this. They didn't specify, like, what kind of beast he was. There's some artwork that's really interesting that I'll show you in a little bit. The various versions, they’ve had him be different animals. Like, I'll tell you later about a bear version, and a wolf version, and some, like, very oddly specific combinations of animals that you will absolutely love.
Amanda: Oh, great.
Julia: So, the merchant super reluctantly agrees and the Beast sends him back to his home on a magical horse laden with beautiful wealth, and gifts, and jewels that the merchant has promised his children upon his return, but stresses like, “Hey, don't tell Belle the deal that we made in exchange for her. Otherwise, she might not like me or whatever.”
Amanda: I mean yeah.
Julia: But, almost as soon as the merchant gets home, Belle is able to kind of get the truth out of him as to where he got all of these gifts. And the brothers of the family are like, “Hey, let's go kill this beast before he can kill us or take our sister away.” And the sisters are like, “This is Belle’s fault because she asked for the rose. This is bullshit. This is all her fault.” And Belle is like, “Okay. Fuck this. I'll go to the beast. So, y'all will stop harassing our father or putting yourself or all of us in danger.” And the merchant is like—
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: —reluctantly, allows her to go.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: So, Belle arrives at the palace and the beast is, like, so hyped that she's actually there.
Amanda: That is adorable.
Julia: He totally attempts to woo her. He throws her a big welcoming ceremony. There's a cabaret performance. He gives her lavish gifts and holds a, all these, like, tremendous banquets for her. And he'll like engage her in long conversations and then, over dinner every night, he would ask her if she would marry him or in some translations sleep with him.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: One or the other. But he tells her that she may answer yes or no without fear. Like, no matter what the answer is, there weren't going to be, like, repercussions to it.
Amanda: Okay. I mean, so far, I'm seeing a lot of really good sort of boundaries in communication going on.
Julia: Yeah, absolutely. So, she continues to turn him down. But, at night, she keeps having these dreams of a handsome prince who she dances with while she's sleeping.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: And this happens for a while. And then, one night, a woman or a fairy – again, depending on the translation – appears to Belle in her dream and is like, “Hey, why do you keep refusing the beast?” And Belle is like, “I'm not in love with him. I like him as a friend.” And the fairies like, “Okay, I guess. But, also, don't be fooled by appearances.” And Belle is, like, confused. She has not made the connection that the prince in her dreams is the beast.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: This version of Belle, doesn't put two and two together. Not as smart as the, the Disney version. But she kind of comes to this conclusion that like, “Oh, the prince that I'm in love with in my dreams, he must be a prisoner of the beast and is hidden somewhere in the castle.”
Amanda: Hmm. He's hidden within.
Julia: Yes. For a month, she spends time searching the castle for this lost prince. And, like, in the process, she finds a beautiful libraries full of books, an aviary full of magical birds that can, like, chirp her name and greet her on site.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Julia: There's, like, a bunch of windows that actually will act out, like, pantomime stage plays with, like, dances and music cues and lighting cues and everything.
Amanda: Sick TV, Belle.
Julia: I imagine this is, like, a good 100 pages of the novel. Not gonna lie.
Amanda: Yeah. I mean that's what fantasy is for, you know.
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm. So, after a month of staying with the beast, though, she begins to miss her family terribly and begs the beast to allow her to see her family. The beast is kind of sad about this, but reluctantly agrees. There's a lot of reluctantly agreeing. Sorry. [Chuckles]
Amanda: [Laughs]
Julia: So long as Belle promises that she returns after exactly two months. Belle agrees. And the Beast places a ring upon her finger that will magically return her back to him when the two months are up.
Amanda: Convenient.
Julia: Convenient. So, Belle shows back up at home and all of her siblings and her father are like, “Damn girl, you actually look really good. Like, you're well fed, and you look well rested, and you're dressed in beautiful clothes?” It's like having a glow up and then going home for, like, Thanksgiving or Christmas.
Amanda: Yeah. And, like, depending on their financial situation, like, in the Michael Jordan documentary, my main takeaway was that Scottie Pippen had a seven-inch growth spurt in college because he had, like, nutrition and, like, was, was fed what he needed. I sort of thought about Scottie, as I often do, in this instance.
Julia: All right. Let's, let's think about Belle though instead of Scottie Pippen because, now, all I can picture is Scottie Pippen dancing in that dress with the beast. So—
Amanda: He has a great figure.
Julia: So, Belle is kind of just playing it off like, “Yeah, it's not so bad there.” And her father's like, “Well, you should marry him then.”
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Again, just like going home for Thanksgiving or Christmas.
Amanda: Just like going home for the holidays. And – but, however, in this scenario, it's like if you can find a pretty tolerable marriage, you are, like, head and shoulders above many people.
Julia: Yeah. Belle is like, “No, I don't love him.” And the father and the brothers are like, “Well, we'll figure out a way so you don't have to go back.” But Belle knows – like, I made this promise and I intend to honor it. Belle spends the two months with her family. And, as it gets closer to her time to return, she begins to, like, hallucinate these images of the beast lying dead in his chambers, which, obviously, freaks her out.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: And, so, she uses the ring that the Beast gave her to transport herself back to the castle. And it turns out what she was seeing was the truth because the beast has died of shame.
Amanda: Ooh?
Julia: Because Belle chose to stay with her family rather than return back to him. Like, he was like, “I must have been such a terrible host and she must not like me. And I just – I'm so embarrassed. I'm going to die now.”
Amanda: So, he expected her to come back early or he saw with his scrying that she was just like enjoying herself and wanted to stay.
Julia: I think he expected her not to spend the whole two months.
Amanda: Hmm.
Julia: Like, he was like, “I hope she misses me and comes back early. And the fact that she didn’t—
Amanda: Aww.
Julia: —he died of shame.
Amanda: Oh, my god.
Julia: So, Belle is distraught and begins to cry over his body saying that she made the wrong choice and that she should have learned to love the beast for who he was rather than how he looked. Classic.
Amanda: Yep.
Julia: However, as she says these words, the Beast transforms back into the handsome prince from Belle dreams and reveals the whole plot about how the enchantress turned him into a hideous beast because he was so selfish and that, like, true love would free him from the curse. So, they marry. They live happily ever after. The end.
Amanda: HEA as we say in romance. Happily ever after.
Julia: Of course, the classic. One quick aside, something that I love about the art from this version of the story. Like, instead of the magical Disney transformation with, like, light and sparkles and smoke, the art from, for example, Europa's Fairy Book, which tells this version of the tale, shows the beastly skin kind of falling off the beast like he was wearing a fur suit the whole time. And that imagery delights me to no end.
Amanda: [Laughs] That is delightful.
Julia: I'm going to share it with you real quick.
Amanda: Like a Tootsie Pop. [Laughs]
Julia: [Chuckles] It's very good, right?
Amanda: He's leaving his job as a mascot for, like, a high school baseball team.
Julia: Oh, no. Amanda, Beauty and the Beast but where the beast is Gritty.
Amanda: Who's in Gritty?
Julia: No one knows.
Amanda: Look, look within. Look within Gritty to the – to the chaos queer within. Oh, bless.
Julia: Oh, someone make me fan art of Beauty and the Beast, but it's with Gritty instead of the beast.
Amanda: Please.
Julia: I beg of you.
Amanda: Please.
Julia: So, Amanda, that is the original Villenueve version. The original version, like I said, full novel, 262 pages. I was wrong before. 262 pages. Like I mentioned earlier, it was shortened by Jeanne-Marie Leprince de Beaumont after Villenueve's death and was rewritten to kind of like teach a moral lesson because, if I’m remembering correctly, Beaumont was like a teacher for young English girls who had moved to France with their rich families.
Amanda: Classic.
Julia: So, she was like, “Well, this story obviously has to have a moral, clearly.
Amanda: Got to teach them English morals in this French, you know, rogue’s land.
Julia: Mhmm. Another interesting aspect from Villenueve's version that I didn't really get a chance to mention while summarizing, the concept of the beast that is used by Villenueve actually has to dual meaning, which I think is really cool. So, the French word for beast, which is bête means both a beast as in like a monster or a creature. But it also means like creature that lacks intelligence. So, there's a bit of like a side plot here where the enchantress, who cursed him, made it so that no one would love him because, one, he was both monstrous and, two, because a potential partner would not know if he had, like, real human intelligence or not.
Amanda: Hmm.
Julia: And there's one part in the novel where Belle is kind of like having one of those long conversations with beasts that they would have over dinner and she goes to the side. She's like – to herself, she's like, “Well, he's not really like beastly, but he is, like, just not smart.” [Chuckles]
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: So, I'm like, “Oh, the beast is a himbo. Got it. Got it. Cool. Cool. Cool.”
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Julia: Makes sense. Respects women. A little dumb.
Amanda: Yeah, that's fine.
Julia: Hot [Inaudible 20:48 – layering].
Amanda: That’s fine.
Julia: Also, in Villenueve's full novel version, there's a subplot where Belle's mother was a fairy who fell in love with a merchant and was punished to never see her family again. And, so, the woman/fairy who comes to Belle in her dream is implied to be Belle's aunt. So, Villenueve's version, complicated as hell. Makes sense. There's 362 pages of it.
Amanda: Damn.
Julia: On the other hand, Beaumont’s version is extremely pared down in comparison and definitely hits the kind of traditional fairytale beats more than the full novel version. So, in Beaumont’s version, there are only six siblings; three sons, three daughters. The plot remains very similar, but Beaumont kind of rushes through the beautiful descriptions of the palace and just, like, kind of straight goes to Belle returning home to visit her family.
Amanda: I love that this sort of like abridging of the story – it's like packing a carry on versus packing a checked bag, where, instead of like six t-shirts, you only need three. Cut those kids in half. Only six kids.
Julia: The only reason you would include all six or, I guess, all 11 siblings is to, like, really drive home the fact that you went from, like, very rich and wealthy and, now, all of your children – you know, you have mouths to feed.
Amanda: Totally.
Julia: It's wild. In this version of the story, the sisters, like, kind of cruelly attempt to convince Belle to stay with them for longer hoping that she'll incur the wrath of the beast and that she'll be eaten by him.
Amanda: Oh, my.
Julia: Yeah. The, the evil sisters are such a concept in fairytales and it blows my mind.
Amanda: Yeah, we might have to interrogate this further and find someone who's written about it because, like, I understand in – you know, in Shakespeare and in sort of like political-related reasons why brothers would be like this to each other. But I don't know why – I mean apart from just like misogyny – like, we would read this into women so much.
Julia: I think part of it has to do with the fact that she is the youngest daughter but, also, is like the “prettiest.”
Amanda: Got it.
Julia: So, typically, in these kind of families, you would have to marry off the oldest daughter first, and then the middle daughter, and then the youngest. So, in like situations like this where it's like, “Oh, well, our youngest sister is the most, like, sought after,” it incurs a lot of, like, tension between siblings in that way.
Amanda: Yeah, it could be socially embarrassing, depending on the time period, and also financially ruinous.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Because the sort of like marriage prospects and, like, marriage ability and social capital of the family would be impacted if a younger daughter got married before an older one.
Julia: Exactly. To kind of finish up Beaumont’s version of the story, it ends in a similar way; Belle returning to find the beast dying and bringing him back to life by admitting her love to him. Now, these are the versions of the story that we are most familiar with, of course. But I'm really excited to explore other versions and some potential inspirations for the story just as soon as we get back from the refill.
Amanda: Let's go.
Midroll Music
Julia: Amanda, I still spend so much time at home to the point where my home needs to be my cozy little paradise. You know what I mean? If I'm going out, I'm already really tired by the time I'm getting back to my house. And I want to feel relaxed when I return home. So, I want extra soft sheets. I want super plush towels for when I'm getting out of the bath. I want loungewear so I'm always comfy when I'm, you know, just hanging around in my loungewear clothes. And, thankfully, Amanda, I get the best of all of that because I get my stuff from Brooklinen. So, Brooklinen was started to create beautiful high quality home essentials that don't cost you an arm and a leg. And, y'all, they succeeded. They did it. They did it. They work directly with manufacturers to make luxury available directly to you without the luxury level markups. And you get their amazing array of products at a reasonable price. I am talking about buttery soft, as Amanda loves to put it, breathable sheets. I'm talking about plush and absorbent towels. I'm talking cozy robes. I'm talking comfy loungewear that you want to put on and never take off. And they are so confident in their core products that they have a 365-day warranty. And their fans are confident about it too. They have received over 75,000 plus five star reviews and counting.
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Julia: Get those buttery softs.
Amanda: Julia, I recently asked Twitter, “Is there a good bralette or soft bra for bigger boobs? Do they exist? Like, somebody please help me.” And I got dozens and dozens of replies because lots of people are looking for this specific thing. And, after a lot of trial and error, do you want to guess where genuinely my favorite bralette is from?
Julia: I'm gonna guess because I have all of their bras as well. ThirdLove?
Amanda: It was from ThirdLove. And I was so happy that ThirdLove came through. And it was genuinely so much softer, better, and better fitting for me and my body than any of the other bralettes that I tried. I had the adjustable strap wireless bra.
Julia: Ooh.
Amanda: And I was looking for kind of like soft support. Like, not – you know, not a sports bra kind of thing, but, you know, holding everything in place. Breathable. Thin. Nothing is sticking out, Julia. There's no tags. There's no wires. The straps do not cut in. But they do have straps, but, depending on, you know, either how high you want them to be or how your shoulders are built, you can make it fit exactly for you. And I was just absolutely delighted that that was true.
Julia: I feel like, after a year and a half, we deserve coziness and comfiness no matter what we're wearing.
Amanda: I completely agree. And, honestly, the fact that there's no tags would make it worthwhile. But they're also just very, very customizable. And there are those excellent half cups that we love so much. There's comfort. There's quality. You're not going to want to, like, get home immediately and, like, rip off your bra like I do most of the time with ThirdLove. So, you deserve, as they say, some TLC. That's ThirdLove comfort. Go to thirdlove.com/spirits now to get 20 percent off your first purchase. That's third, T-H-I-R-D, love, L-O-V-E.com/spirits for 20 percent off today. Julia, partner in life and podcasting, Eric Silver and I went on a trip recently away for a few days. When we got home, the last thing we wanted to do was cook because we were just like, “Oh, my god, we just drove for so long. I just really want to be here.” And I turned to Eric and I was like, “Eric, what if we just got a lot of sushi.”
Julia: [Gasps]
Amanda: And he was like, “Exactly what I want.” So, I opened the Doordash app and was able to order sushi from our local sushi place just two blocks away. Yes, I had it delivered. I did not pick it up because I wanted to do stuff around the house. And, sometimes, you are able to do that. And you can do that with Doordash, which I absolutely love.
Julia: Yeah, Doordash connects you with restaurants like yours, Amanda, that you love right now and right to your door. And, now, you can get grocery essentials as well through Doordash. You can get drinks. You can get snacks. You can get household items delivered in under an hour and ordering is super easy. You open that Doordash app, like you said. You choose what you want from where you want. And your items will be left safely outside your door with contactless delivery drop off setting. And, with over 300,000 partners in the US, Puerto Rico, Canada, and Australia, you can support your neighborhood go-tos or choose from your favorite national restaurants. And, for a limited time, our listeners get 25 percent off and zero delivery fees on their first order of $15 or more when you download the Doordash app and enter the code Creepycool, all one word. That's 25 percent off up to a $10 value and zero delivery fees on your first order when you download the Doordash app in the App Store and enter the code Creepycool. Don't forget that's code Creepycool, all one word, for 25 percent off your first order with Doordash. Subject to change. Terms apply.
Amanda: Subject to change. Terms apply. Well, everybody, let's get back to the show.
Julia: So, my instinct, since so much of this plot kind of evolves around the rose, was to make a rose-flavored cocktail. But I got to be honest with you, Amanda, I think rose is pretty overpowering in cocktails. So, we're gonna do a little play on words here and we're gonna make a rosé wine cocktail.
Amanda: Oh, I love it. Julia, something about that first day when you can walk outside your house without a jacket on makes me crave crisp rosé.
Julia: As it should, honestly.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: And, like you said, because it's summertime, I love getting watermelon in the mix. Like, the minute it starts getting warm out, I'm like, “Where's the watermelon? Oh, I really need some.”
Amanda: Yeah, early in quarantine, we drink a lot of tequila watermelon drinks based on your recommendation. And it's – you know, it’s delish.
Julia: Makes me happy. So, this is my version of a rosé cocktail. So, frosé obviously, splash of vodka, gin if you want. I like the vodka because it doesn't take away from the kind of rosé flavor. A splash of watermelon juice, which you can juice yourself, but places like Trader Joe's sell it this time of year. So, it's worth getting. And then just a little bit of mint to garnish. It's really refreshing like a castle garden after a storm.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: So, with our frosé in hand, let's dig into the different versions and inspiration for Beauty and the Beast. Let's start with inspiration. I think, just from the story itself, you can probably see some elements of another story that we've talked about here on the show before, which is the story of Eros and Psyche.
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Julia: Yeah. You'll see kind of familiar beats in the story. There's the, like, “kidnapping. There's a, a lack of love because of appearance or lack of, in Eros’ case, just fully of lack of appearance because he's invisible when he's with her.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: The kind of spiteful siblings who wish to doom their sister out of jealousy and then eventual love between the two.
Amanda: Yeah, there's something – there's some kind of joke here I’m trying to get at, Julia, about, like, happy pride. You too can be a disembodied himbo. [Laughs]
Julia: Can't we all be disembodied himbo really?
Amanda What a fantasy, man.
Julia: If only. If only. So, another clear inspiration for Beauty and the Beast comes from an Italian fairytale called The Pig King.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: So, The Pig King was written by Giovanni Francesco Straparola around 1550 as part of “The Facetious Nights of Straparola.”
Amanda: Oh, my god. Is this – is this a, like, Jersey Shore spinoff? What's happening?
Julia: Gosh, I wish.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: But it was just 75 Italian fairytales all included in a publication.
Amanda: Damn it.
Julia: In The Pig King, it's one of those classic, “Oh, a king and queen are married, but have not yet been able to have children,” kind of beginnings that most fairytales tend to have. We start to get into the plot one day when the queen is sleeping in her garden and three fairies come upon her.
Amanda: Hmm.
Julia: It’s a lot of fairies. So, each of the fairies decides, “We're gonna give her a gift.” The first is like, “I'm going to give her a son and the gift that no man can harm her.”
Amanda: Okay. Useful.
Julia: The next is like, “I'm going to make it so that no one can ever offend her. And, also, her son will have every virtue.”
Amanda: Every.
Julia: Every virtue.
Amanda: Wow. I'm getting a Tatterhood vibes here from the scenario.
Julia: It does. It does. And then, finally, the third fairy was like, “You, my queen, will be very, very wise. But, also, hey, that son that we gave you is gonna be a pig until he gets married three times.”
Amanda: Oh, no. What?! Three?
Julia: [Laughs]
Amanda: Oh, my god.
Julia: So, really playing into the rule of three magic numbers situation here.
Amanda: Yeah, concurrently, consecutively. What are we talking about here?
Julia: We'll see. We'll see. Won’t we?
Amanda: Oh, no.
Julia: Also, remembering that like the mortality rate of people was not super great around this time—
Amanda: Yeah. No, it wasn’t.
Julia: So, like, you know, their spouse would die and then they would end up getting remarried. It happens.
Amanda: Totally.
Julia: So, the Queen becomes pregnant and gives birth. And, of course, the child she has is a literal pig.
Amanda: Okay. Okay.
Julia: Just a little piglet.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: The king is flabbergasted, but decides that he is going to raise the pig as his own son.
Amanda: Good on you, king.
Julia: The pig son grows up. And he's able to, like, talk and is intelligent, but is also prone to, like, pig-like things like wallowing in the mud.
Amanda: [Laughs] Again, happy pride.
Julia: Which is the cutest thing ever. Just a little crown and he's like a pig wallowing in the mud. So cute.
Amanda: So cute. Like learning Latin. Like, let me just do a quick dust roll over here.
Julia: As he grew older, the pig son told his mother that he wanted to marry. And the Queen was like, “I don't know if anyone's gonna want to marry a pig.” But he begged and he begged and, finally, the Queen persuaded this old woman to give her eldest daughter up for marriage, you know, because you can go to the peasantry and be, like, “Your daughter, she shall come with me and marry my pig son.”
Amanda: And the woman's like, “Okay, I guess. It's this or probably very bad consequences for me and my family.”
Julia: Yeah, I mean that's really what it is. It's like, “Listen, you'll be rich and taken care of if you marry this pig son. So, the girl is like, “Actually, I hate this, but what I'll do is I'm going to kill the pig son on our wedding night or the pig prince.” At this point, he's a pig prince. He's no longer just—
Amanda: True.
Julia: —like, a young – a young pig. Not a piglet.
Amanda: [Chuckles] No longer a piglet in, in short pants.
Julia: So, she's like, “Okay. Well, if I kill him and I'm already married to him, obviously, I will, you know, inherit the title and all of his money and whatnot.”
Amanda: I don't know it would have worked out that way, but let's see what happens.
Julia: Yes. They get married. The girl attempts to kill the pig prince. He defends himself and stabs her with his hooves killing her instead.
Amanda: I mean that went bad.
Julia: Yeah, but that's one marriage down.
Amanda: One down.
Julia: So, the second daughter of the old woman attempts the same thing after she is persuaded into marrying him as well and dies in a similar fashion.
Amanda: Why did they want to kill this nice pig?
Julia: Because they don't want to be married to a pig, I guess. They don't know that he's a nice pig. That's the problem. They're not trying to get to know this pig.
Amanda: Hmm. I see. So, finally, the youngest daughter volunteers to marry the pig prince. And, unlike her sisters, she does not try to kill him on the night of their wedding. Instead, she was very kind, and polite, and returned his affections. And it was then that the prince revealed the secret of his form. That he could take off his pigskin and become a handsome man when he was in her bed.
Amanda: Oh, my.
Julia: Oh, my.
Amanda: Only in bed? Isn't the curse lifted?
Julia: Every morning, he had to put the pigskin back on and resume his beastly form. But his wife was, like, really happy to have him as a husband. She's like, “This is a nice kind man with all the virtues in the world. And my other sisters just didn't get to know him. They only saw the pig.” So, eventually, she becomes pregnant and gives birth. And the child that she bore was a son, who was fully human.
Amanda: Nice.
Julia: Which the king and the queen are obviously confused that the child is fully human given the nature of their son. And, so, the wife reveals that the pig prince has the secret about being able to take off his pigskin to, you know, do the deed and then has to put it back on. Probably not just do the deed. Just to sleep in her bed, let’s be—
Amanda: Yeah, just a cuddle.
Julia: Yeah. So, one evening, when the prince and his wife are sleeping in her bed, the king comes into the room and destroys the pigskin while they're sleeping.
Amanda: No. Have selkies taught us nothing?
Julia: No. But, actually, this is what breaks the curse on the prince. And the king abdicates his throne. The son takes the throne. So, he was then now known as King Pig and lived a long and happy life with his wife and child. So, obviously, you can see the similarities between this and Beauty and the Beast. Though, in this instance, the beast/Pig King were not being punished or cursed for any particular reason, unlike the beast in Beauty and the Beast.
Amanda: Damn.
Julia: And he also kind of get that, like, magical transformation at night situation.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: Which we also saw in the story of Psyche and Eros, where he would become visible and corporeal in order to sleep next to her at night. Also, related to this is the Norwegian fairytale, which is East of the Sun, West of the Moon—
Amanda: Wooh.
Julia: —which was included in the Andrew Lang Blue Fairy Book as well. In this story, the white bear, who I think is a reference to the other Norwegian story, which is White-Bear-King-Valemon. But I'm not 100 percent sure. But this bear is the white bear in the story and not a white bear in the story. Just to clarify. I feel like we're supposed to know who he is, but I don't.
Amanda: Not for us. I'm sure Norway will write in. They go very hard for fairytales.
Julia: Yes.
Amanda: Lots of nighttime in the winter time to think about fairytales.
Julia: It's true. It's true. So, the white bear approaches a poor peasant and says, “If you give me your youngest and prettiest daughter to be my wife, I will make you very rich.”
Amanda: I mean yeah.
Julia: Obviously, neither of us are parents. If some large magical bear came to your door and was like, “Does your youngest child want to marry me and you'll be real rich after that?” How would you feel?
Amanda: Scholars of childhood have talked about how the idea of a childhood and, like, being able to, like, be a child is relatively new, at least, in the kind of like Colonial British and, you know, American sort of culture. And I think, earlier, kids were a lot more practical. You know, it was more labor on the farm, more odds that someone [Inaudible 32:51 – will arrive] to take care of you, the ability to, you know, keep your family name going on, things like that, or keep property in your family. Maybe it was less of a thing. I imagine people have always loved their kids and wanted the best for them. But, I don't know, maybe the realities of needing to somehow survive – you know, like having no one to rely on. I don't know.
Julia: This is a time period where, like, sometimes a parent would leave for several years to find work and then bring money home to their family. So, it wouldn't surprise me if, you know, this was a fairly common thing. Not, not giving your child to a bear, but someone coming and being like, “Hey, I need a wife. Would you like that? And I will give you dowry for this, this person.”
Amanda: Yeah, it's big sacrifices that people continue to make.
Julia: Yeah. So, the man agrees to this bear’s proposal and manages to convince his daughter that this is a good idea. So, the bear leaves and then comes back and takes the daughter back to his enchanted castle.
Amanda: Great.
Julia: Enchanted castle. Awesome.
Amanda: Yeah. Not bad.
Julia: You wouldn't think that a bear would have an enchanted castle, but here we are.
Amanda: You know, something I forgot in the animated movie is how sick that castle is.
Julia: Sick.
Amanda: It's a sick castle.
Julia: It’s a bit dope. So, similar to the Pig King, the white bear can take off his bear skin when he came to her bed. And, so, he could sleep with her as a man. But much like Psyche and Eros, because it was dark, she was unable to see what her husband actually looked like.
Amanda: Got it.
Julia: So, like in Beauty and the Beast, the daughter eventually becomes homesick and the bear agrees to allow her to visit home on the condition that she never speak with her mother while alone, only when they are around other people.
Amanda: What? Why?
Julia: You'll find out soon enough.
Amanda: No.
Julia: Because, of course, she isn't able to do that. And, so, her mother, when she gets her alone, asks her about her new husband and she reveals the whole situation about, “You know, my husband's a bear, but he comes to me as a man at night. But I've never seen him.”
Amanda: Come on. Put two and two together. What do you think he didn't want you to talk about, huh?
Julia: After this whole situation, this whole reveal, the mother convinces her daughter that she actually married a troll.
Amanda: No.
Julia: So, she gives her daughter some candles so that she may light them and see her husband next time he sleeps in her bed. Again, just like Eros and Psyche. You'll see what I mean. Even to the point where it's like her sisters give her the, the lantern so that she may—
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: —see what he looks like. The daughter goes back to the castle. Lights the candles next time she shares the bed with her husband, but spills some of the wax onto his chest, which wakes him up. And I should mention. Very handsome man. Not a troll.
Amanda: Of course. Of course.
Julia: So, the prince is livid. And he reveals that he had been cursed and that, if she had waited a year to see him, he would have been freed from that curse.
Amanda: No!
Julia: But, now, he has to return to his wicked stepmother, the person who cursed him in the first place. And that stepmother lives in a castle East of the sun, West of the moon – hence, the name of the story – and was planning on marrying the prince off to her troll princess daughter when he returned.
Amanda: Oh, damn. Again, communication guys. He could have just said this right up front. Everyone will be on board. You won't be scared. You’d be allies in this instead of enemies. Oh, my.
Julia: But I feel like, in this scenario, he probably couldn't be honest about it. It might have been part of the curse where he, like, couldn't explain like, “Oh, yes, I am a real man.” Also, I feel like if a bear told me, “I'm a real man. I would not believe them.”
Amanda: I don't know. Yeah, you, you're right. If that was part of the conditions, then, like, I completely understand. But, so often in fairytales and in romance novels, which are in some ways modern fairytales, talking is too easy. If you would talk, there would be no plot.
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm. Everyone has deep secrets that they can't reveal to anyone else because, otherwise, they won't like me.
Amanda: The trope that makes me the most antsy and anxious is when there is, like, an underhanded motive for beginning to, like, call each other or see each other or want to get married. And then, over time, you're like, “Oh, fuck, I actually want this.” And you can say like, “Hey, this is not how it started for me, but it's how it is.” But, instead, worst case scenario, you know, your, your partner or your intended finds out about it otherwise and then the trust is broken. And it has to be repaired. Anyway.
Julia: But, if there wasn't that, Amanda, there would be no plot.
Amanda: But, Julia, why can't I just read things with no conflict and only happy?
Julia: I feel that. I feel that. So, with this big reveal, the white bear prince disappears. And, thus, starts a whole journey that the daughter has to set out upon to find him and rescue him from the castle east of the sun, west of the moon, which is such a long name for that castle. So, she meets an old woman playing with a golden apple, who lends her a horse and the apple. And then sends her off to a neighbor who might be able to help her find the castle. That neighbor cannot, but gives her a golden comb and sends her to another neighbor who might know how to get there. The next neighbor also does not know how to get there, but gives her a golden spinning wheel and a horse that will be able to reach the east wind because, surely, the East Wind would know how to reach the castle, right?
Amanda: It’s just like that one quest in Stardew. Stardew heads, you know what I'm talking about. That's not what they're called. I just – I just made it up.
Julia: So, it turns out the East Wind had never been to the castle and did not know how to get to the castle east of the sun, west of the moon, but tells her to visit his brother the west wind who is stronger. The West Wind also has never been, brings her to the South Wind. But the South Wind brings her to the North Wind. And the North Wind is like, “Well, I blew a leaf there once and it exhausted me.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Julia: But, if you really want to go, all of my siblings have vouched for you. So, I'll take you there.
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: The daughter arrives at the castle and, as the troll princess is walking by, she takes out the golden apple that she had been gifted. The troll princess sees the golden apple and immediately wants to buy it.
Amanda: Hmm.
Julia: She's like, “That is a cool apple. I want it.”
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: The daughter agrees, but names her price, which is the chance to sleep with the prince.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: So, the troll princess is like, “Hmm. Suspicious, but okay.” And, in secret, before the daughter arrives, gives the prince a sleeping potion so that, when the daughter is there with him, she cannot wake him up.
Amanda: Oh, wow.
Julia: So, the same thing happens the next day. This time, with the golden comb instead of the apple. And the scene kind of plays out the same. However, the daughter, you know, when she's trying to wake up the prince, is weeping and calling out to him. And the servants of the castle hear all of this go down. And, so, they tell the prince the next day once he's woken up. And, when the daughter does the same thing as the past two nights, this time with the golden spinning wheel, the troll princess once again gives him the sleeping potion. But the prince is, like, now, aware of that and doesn't drink it. And, so, he is awake when the daughter arrives.
Amanda: Never drink things. That's my – that's my hot takeaway.
Julia: Hot take.
Amanda: That's my takeaway.
Julia: So, the prince, therefore, is able to tell her how she can save him. So, he's like, “I'm going to declare that I will marry anyone who can wash the wax stains out of my shirt,” knowing that the trolls would not be able to do so, which, side note, it doesn't mention why.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Julia: Maybe trolls, like, can't clean or something or are bad at laundry.
Amanda: Or it's just like a generational secret or no one told them. I mean there are tricks.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Like, you got to learn the salt trick and the baking soda trick.
Julia: I'm now picturing all of the trolls wearing pink because, every time they tried to do their whites, a red sock always manages to sneak in.
Amanda: I love that.
Julia: So, anyway, he declares this in front of the, the Troll Kingdom or whatever. And the youngest daughter is able to clean his shirt and they get married.
Amanda: Nice.
Julia: But this puts the trolls into a rage. And, in their rage, they just explode?
Amanda: Oh. Not a thing I knew about trolls, I guess.
Julia: The, the summary that I was reading said burst, which is very funny, like they’re made of balloons.
Amanda: Aww.
Julia: And, so, the prince and his bride are able to escape the castle and return to their home in the other enchanted castle to live, of course, happily ever after.
Amanda: HEA, baby.
Julia: HEA. So, these two stories are great examples of the kind of tale that inspired our Beauty and the Beast. But there are plenty of other variations and versions that came after. So, in France, there is the White Wolf, which involves a singing rose. And the wolf actually dies at the end. Fun.
Amanda: Ooh. Oh, no.
Julia: There is also the French story, which is the Lovely Rose, which stands out only because of how buck wild the description of the beast is.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: So, in this story, the beast has mastiff jaws like the dog—
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: —lizard legs, and a salamander body.
Amanda: Oh, no. That salamander body.
Julia: It's quite a combo, honestly. In Portugal, there is a version of the story where Beauty asks for “a slice of roach off a green meadow,” instead of a rose. Though, otherwise, the story remains quite similar until her father actually dies, which is why she is late to return to the beast and that's what causes him to die.
Amanda: It's like this thing in modern Sci-fi TV shows and stuff where, like, the world must be imperiled, you know. Like, not just a person, a family, a town. Like, the world must, like, end—
Julia: Yes.
Amanda: —you know, as the only stakes that matter. I feel like they had to get, like, worse and worse and worse with their descriptions of, like, the beast, or adding in deaths, or, like, “Oh, she just wanted a nasty cockroach.”
Julia: I'm not sure if it was like a cockroach. If you're listening to this and you know what a roach is in terms of the story, you just let me know. Also, in this story, when the beast dies, she doesn't bring him back to life by admitting her love. And, in fact, the beast curses her and her entire family with his dying breath. And then, a few days later, the Belle dies and her sisters and the rest of the family end up living in poverty, which is yikes. Big yikes there.
Amanda: Yikes. That's a real Age of Ultron scenario.
Julia: Really raises the bar in terms of like the complications of the story.
Amanda: Yeah, I mean imagine someone telling you that story or you’re reading a chapter book and, at the end of it, you're like, “What?” [Chuckles]
Julia: You're like, “Why everyone's dead and sad now? Huh. Okay. All right.”
Amanda: Me too.
Julia: The Brothers Grimm have their own version of the story, of course, called—
Amanda: Julia, is it nasty? Does it get even nastier?
Julia: No, it's actually, like, kind of nice, I guess. It's weird and you'll see why in a moment. So, this story is called The Summer and Winter Garden in which, rather than just a rose, the Beauty requests a rose in the winter. And the father is only able to find that rose in a garden where half of the garden is eternal winter and the other half is eternal summer.
Amanda: Oh, shit.
Julia: My favorite part of this one is when the Belle returns home after attending her father's funeral because, yeah, he dies in this one, too.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: She finds that the beast is dying beneath – wait for it – a heap of cabbages.
Amanda: Oh, no! Why?
Julia: For some reason – if you are listening to this and you know why there's a cabbages in this story, please explain it to me. Please tell me.
Amanda: Maybe that they're very common and it's, like, undignified.
Julia: Maybe. I don't know.
Amanda: Damn, I don't know.
Julia: So, the Beauty pulls him out from beneath his pile of cabbages and revives him by pouring water over him, which turns him into the handsome prince.
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: There's also a Scandinavian version that is almost exactly like the Beaumont version of the story, which is most similar to our Disney movie version. But, in this version, he's not a beast, but rather just a horse.
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: Just.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: There's a bunch of Russian and Eastern European versions with various differences. Like a Ukrainian version where the beast is a giant snake and gives the Beauty the ability to revive the dead.
Amanda: I feel like I'm on one of those teacup rides. And, every time I make a rotation, I get more little reverberations that make me more and more dizzy.
Julia: In the Russian, The Enchanted Tsarevich, the beast is actually a three-headed winged snake.
Amanda: Tight as fuck.
Julia: Tight. And that's just Europe. There's a few Chinese versions of the tale as well that our listeners can really start to dig into; The Fairy Serpent, The King of Snakes, and The Pearl of the Sea.
Amanda: Awesome.
Julia: There is also a Indonesian version of the story that is about a Lutung, which is a species of monkey. The monkey helps a beautiful princess when her sister attempts to steal the throne from her. So, the story ends up being kind of just a series of contests to see which daughter deserves to take the throne. And the final of which is the king decides that he will choose for his successor the daughter that has the most handsome fiancé.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: Which seems like a bad way of doing it, but all right.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: So, the princess, the main character, chooses the monkey as her fiancé because he has been loyal and devoted and has a good heart and people, like, start mocking her. But, the moment she chooses him, the curse on the monkey is broken ad he's revealed to be a handsome young man, which allows the princess to win the throne.
Amanda: Damn.
Julia: It's really cute. I love it. Something I want to note before we wrap up, most folklores believed that a lot of these tales were commentary on, like, arranged marriages, which were still fairly common at the time in France when the story was beginning to become popular. And, like, as you can see, Amanda, this is an extremely persistent story and, obviously, a very popular one at that, whether it is a fantastical romance of 362 pages or a moral tale for children. The story of Beauty and the Beast has been told over and over again.
Amanda: I love that we got to see so many versions of it and see which ones persist.
Julia: Yeah, it was – it was great. I know you had some thoughts about the beats of fairytales and also romance novels. Do you want to – do you want to talk a little bit about that before we wrap up?
Amanda: Yeah, I was really moved by the sort of montage of Beauty and the Beast falling in love.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: I mentioned to my family that I was watching the movie because it is our dad's favorite, notably. And, and, suddenly, Connor was like, “Yeah, the Something There sequence is one of the most effective montage sequences ever made. It's a minute and 55 seconds and it sells to total character transformations, which I completely agree with. And, for me, the thing I love most about romance novels – look, I've said this lots of times. I think I love a lot about romance novels—
Julia: Love it.
Amanda: —is that you can see sort of little interactions that go from hostile, or suspicious, or fear inducing to, like, just little extensions of vulnerability, or of forgiveness, or interest even in the other person. And I thought that it was just very, very effectively done in this movie. Before I re-watched it, you know, just kind of thinking back about what Beauty and the Beast is, like, “Oh, beauty is within, you know.” But there really is a lot more. And I think that kind of advice of, like, be nice to each other and look for something nice in each other. You know, look for ways that you can share something or show each other something. I don't know. It's, it's hard to do in life and, sometimes, not always safe to do. But, when it's possible, you know, seeing that extended toward you and trying to do it toward others, that really adds up to something powerful.
Julia: Yeah, I, I 100 percent agree. And I like that the idea of the kind of romance novel from this fantastical romance that was written in the 1700s all the way to the 1991 film the beats are still there, you know. And it's not just about like, “Oh, we're gonna rush to the Beaumont version where we're gonna rush to the end. And, you know, she returns home and then that is the plot point there. And he dies of shame for some reason.”
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: I really do think that there's, there's something beautiful about the beats of that persisting. Like, the idea of romance, I guess, hasn't changed all that much, you know, where it's like, as long as you are being, like, vulnerable with a partner and seeing something more than just their outward appearance and finding the good in that person, they'll find that they are deserving of love and that you, in return, are deserving of love. And I really do like that part about Beauty and the Beast.
Amanda: And we haven't even touched on Gaston, who is just such a bore and having Belle be strange because she reads. It's just – it's awesome. And, in lots of romance novels, particularly, Regency and Victorian ones like, “Yeah, reading was, you know, kind of suspicious.” I saw a lot of, you know, those, those same things that I am still finding comfort and entertainment in as an adult represented here as well.
Julia: You know, that brings up a good point. If Gaston hadn't gotten involved with the plot where it's like, “We're gonna throw Maurice into the asylum, et cetera, so Belle has to come home,” do you think that Belle would have admitted in time her love for the beast? Or do you think she needed that catalyst of him like close to death and dying?
Amanda: I think she was getting there.
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: Whether or not it would have happened before the rose dropped, I don't know. I think that that montage tells us that, like, they are – they were really getting there. I, I, I love that she gets to have it all in the end, you know.
Julia: She does even though he's less handsome as a person. [Chuckles]
Amanda: [Laughs] I know he was hotter as a beast man.
Julia: It's weird how he was hotter as a beast. I don't get it. Maybe it's just the, the prince that they chose is just so on handsome that I was like, “No, go back to the, the – you have more of like facial features when you were a beast.”
Amanda: I know. He's very generic looking. I mean so is Belle to a certain extent, but you do get to, at least, see her personality and her interact. They also do that thing that I see all the time in, particularly, older literature, where somebody has, like, brown hair and they're like, “A blonde.” Like, the prince is blonde and the beast has brown hair. And she, like, touches his hair as if to say, “Oh, yes, that blonde hair. I recognize.” Like, did everybody just count anything that was not mahogany or black as blonde?
Julia: Yeah. Makes no goddamn sense.
Amanda: Makes no sense. It really made me laugh.
Julia: Oh, well, thank you for joining me on this revisit. I'm so glad that we got to revisit a movie that, like, really does have some emotional connection to your childhood.
Amanda: It does. And I, I loved the folkloric context. I loved being reminded of the, the things I love in other stories that I keep, keep looking for. And, Julia, I, I love that we get to, to talk and analyze and laugh together even if you do have to put animal mashups in there along the way.
Julia: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I had to include it. It was just buck wild.
Amanda: You have to. You have to. It's, it’s our job.
Julia: And, just like it is our job to include buck wild animal mashups, it's also your job, listener, to stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil