Episode 236: Your Urban Legends LI - Ghostly Cheez-Its
/Would you eat the cursed Cheez-its? It’s important that we know if you would. Also, we talk about being trained by a ghost on how to be a good adult, and rate some theatre ghosts.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, divorce, fire, religious persecution, illness, organized religion, blasphemy, gore, explosions, racism, and murder.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends Persephone Station by Stina Leicht.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out our previous virtual live shows, and information about our future virtual live events at multitude.productions/live.
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Transcript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is Episode 236: Your Urban Legend LI. It has to do with Cheez-Its people and you're gonna love the Cheez-Its. That's all I have to say.
Julia: We've been talking about the Cheez-Its for weeks since we recorded this episode. And, oh, god, the Cheez-Its just hunt my – hunt my brain.
Amanda: You know who haunts my brain in a good way where I think of their name and I'm just like, “Ah, yes, love them.”
Julia: Our new patrons.
Amanda: Our new patrons. Actually, Eric XO who sent us a very sweet message. Thank you. And, Glennis, welcome to the Patreon. You help us literally make this podcast, and keep making it, and make it a space that everybody can enjoy for free. And we so appreciate you.
Julia: We do. We do appreciate you. And we appreciate all of our patrons including our supporting and producer-level patrons.
Amanda: Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Bryan, Debra, Hannah, Jane, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Justin, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Liz, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Polly, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi.
Julia: And, of course, Amanda, our legend level patrons who always get Cheez-Its in their dreams. You'll see. You'll see.
Amanda: And it's gluten free or not depending on whatever they need; Audra, Chimera or Change, Clara, Drew, Jack Marie, Jaybaybay, Ki, Lada, Morgan with no initial, Morgan H., Necroroyalty, Taylor, and Bea Me Up Scotty.
Julia: All of our Morgans are special.
Amanda: And, Julia, all of your recommendations are special to me.
Julia: Aww.
Amanda: So, why don't you let me know what you've been reading, watching, or listening to recently?
Julia: I just finished a book that I thoroughly enjoyed. It was called Persephone Station. Did I pick it because Persephone is in the title? Maybe a little bit. But it is a Sci-Fi book about, like, a bunch of mercenaries and indigenous alien species and also a, like, non-binary bartender mobster. And I had so much fun reading it. It was delightful.
Amanda: Val? [Chuckles]
Julia: [Chuckles] Yeah. But it's by Stina Leicht. Definitely, pick it up. There is a link in the episode description. I really liked it. And I’m actually mailing it to a friend because I was like – I read it and I was like, “Oh, you're gonna love this. I'm sending it to you right now.”
Amanda: Incredible. I love that so much. I'm gonna have to request it at the library.
Julia: Do it.
Amanda: And we also want to let you all know this week that Multitude does free consulting for members of underrepresented groups in audio. If that's you and you want to learn how to get into podcasting, or you have a podcast and you want to grow it, or you’re just kind of like what is this all about, you should hit us up and have a little sit down with a member of our team. We reserved 15 hours of staff time every month for doing this free consulting. So, listen, the time is there. You might as well use it. Go to multitude.productions and click under the Resources tab free consulting, where you can come and schedule some time with me or someone else on our team.
Julia: Yeah, I had a lot of people tweet at us after I reminded people that this was a service that we have available. And they were like, “Oh, my god, I did it. And I had such a great time. And it was really helpful and really useful. And everyone was super knowledgeable and kind.” And I was like, “Yeah. Heck yeah. I'm so glad.”
Amanda: That's what we try to do. And I just wanted to give you a little old reminder about that one. Well, without any further ado, we will let you go to enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 236: Your Urban Legends LI.
Intro Music
Eric: Guys, I have a specter looming directly over me.
Julia: Oh-uh.
Amanda: Eric, you already turned 30. What are you talking about?
Eric: This is the specter of my hair—
Julia: Oh, no.
Eric: —going away.
Amanda: Oh, Eric.
Eric: It's undeniable at this point. So, I've said for many years that my mom's father – there are pictures of him with a full head of black hair.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: And then there are pictures of him with the toilet bowl—
Julia: Oh, no.
Eric: —hair all white. And there's almost no pictures in between.
Julia: Oh, no. Did it happen overnight?
Eric: I'm like, “How quickly did this man bald? And, now, what's going to happen is I went into a pandemic with a nice Mohawk—
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: —looking snazzy and I'm going to emerge from it 15 months later, no pictures at any events being taken of me—
Amanda: That's true. That’s true.
Eric: —bald.
Julia: You're living that legacy.
Amanda: Wow.
Eric: It's just no one – it's gonna be like, “Wow. It just like really, really just changed overnight it's going to seem because there's just gonna be no evidence of any hair going throughout the whole thing.” Also, very few people generally have taken pictures of me from behind in general. So, it wouldn't be that obvious, I guess, in the first place, but it's over. It's over here.
Julia: What is your head but a ghost for your hair?
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: I totally agree.
Eric: I always like to think that my hair is dead and is haunting my, my skull.
Amanda: I think that anybody who's rocking a shaved head or bald head has, like, danced with death and won. You know what I mean?
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: You've gone through a thing that society really shames you about because of the lack of, you know, conversations and, and diversity and, like, men body positivity and, and things like that. And you survived. And you're here and you're thriving. You're a hot guy now. You have a great beard and bald head combo, which I think looks great.
Eric: I will. I want to be very clear for listeners.
Amanda: You will. You will.
Eric: I've got a solid three to six months probably or I might just get it just completely shaved off at my next haircut. Who knows? Who knows what I'm feeling on the day. I do like hats now, but I'm not currently a hat guy. I'm not currently bald, but I will be probably before our next in-person live show.
Julia: Fantastic.
Amanda: I really appreciate this as an embracing of our kind of like let's talk about death now because it's gonna happen—
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: —sort of lifestyle. And I think you're doing great, bud.
Eric: Yeah, I'm very scared about what my head looks like. I don't – I just – not that I'm like – I'm not – I'm not – I don't want to say I'm self-conscious of it or that. I just don't know what's – because there is like a weird, like, bump somewhere that I could feel. But I don't know if that's going to resolve itself once it's all – it's all visible. So, that's what's going on with me. What spooky stories do we have for the listeners that maybe they can enjoy a bit more than, than just me get an extreme haircut?
Julia: Well, I have three personal encounters with the unknown from Cole.
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: Would you like to hear those?
Amanda: Delicious.
Eric: Yeah, I’d love to hear all three of them.
Amanda: We know that all good things come in threes and bad ones. So, just, you know, watch out.
Julia: So, this is from Cole and they write, “Hi, Spirits team. I've just gone into your show and I'm listening through the urban legends episodes back to back. I just can't get enough of them. So, I decided to share some of mine. When my mom moved away to live with her new husband, I moved into my dad's house in Aurora, Illinois before starting dorm life at my nearby college. I was only there for about two months, but I started having several really bad dreams. I can't remember most of them. But I know they were distressing and scary. However, one night I had a dream that someone had come into the house in the middle of the night and was standing in the kitchen with my stepmother, Wendy. I don't know who it was, but I remember being scared that they were there. The next day my stepmom asked if I had gotten up in the middle of the night because she thought she heard someone moving around in the kitchen with her late at night. I was super freaked out. And, once I moved into my dorms, the dream stopped being so bad.”
Amanda: Hmm.
Julia: Story number one. I, I like when they're like, “Yeah, you know, I went to this new place. Something weird happened. And then I left and it stopped happening.” That's the ideal situation.
Amanda: Yeah. I'm also curious if anyone else in that home experienced that.
Julia: Yeah. Because, obviously, Wendy heard something, you know.
Amanda: That's true.
Julia: Something was up. Another story, when we were little kids, my cousin visited from Wisconsin and stayed with us for about a week. She taught my sister and I a card game to communicate with Spirits. Already a bad idea. Already terrible. She would lay out the four aces in a row and then shuffle the rest of the deck. We could only ask the spirit a yes or no question. Then, starting from the right, she would flip over the cards one by one replacing them down the line of aces to get our answers. For example, placing a heart card in the ace of hearts column meant yes, while placing a club in the ace of clubs column meant no, et cetera. The only way to stop talking to a specific spirit was to ask them if it was okay to switch or if it was okay to stop the conversation altogether. You had to wait to flip over the right card that said yes before you could stop. At one point, we had a spirit that did not want to stop talking to us. Every time we asked if we could stop, the cards that we flipped over said no. My cousin got impatient and decided to throw the remaining cards into the pile to force an end to the conversation. Bad.
Amanda: No.
Julia: The moment the cards hit the bed, all of the lights in the house flickered off and went on again.
Amanda: What?
Julia: Obviously, we were very scared. So, we ran into the front room and woke my mom up. Of course, she didn't notice anything because she had been sleeping the whole time. And we were just left to be scared for the rest of the night.
Amanda: That is scary.
Julia: And then, finally, another story. I lived in an apartment in Makuharihongō, Chiba, Japan during college for about four months with one of my friends. One night, we were decorating her room and listening to some music when, all of a sudden, both of us stopped mid-conversation, looked at each other, and ran out of the room without saying a word. When we got to my room a safer distance away, we asked each other what had happened. We had both described feeling like something or someone had come into the room and that we were extremely not welcome there anymore.
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: Way to listen to that feeling because I feel like I would be like, “Well, I'm uncomfortable and I'm gonna leave, you know, when I get a second. But you both stopped mid-conversation and then ran out of that room. Props.
Eric: I'm out of here.
Amanda: I completely agree, Julia. I was thinking the same thing. I feel like, in, in the before times, if I was like walked into a restaurant that I thought looked good and I was like, “Nah, it’s not the place for me,” I would have to psych myself up for like five minutes before actually walking out of the lobby, you know.
Julia: I feel that. It was the weirdest experience because we hadn't said anything to one another and we hadn't even been telling each other any scary story beforehand. A few weeks later in that same apartment, a cabinet that would always stick and was really hard to get open, but flew open by itself while we were cooking. And the two of us screamed and ran down to our friend's place to stay for a while. It was so scary.
Eric: I don't like this. I don't like this one more than any of the other parts.
Julia: Okay.
Eric: Because a cab – like, cabinet doors just being able to swing open.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: And especially a sticky cabinet door.
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: Because then like what's, what's really going on?
Julia: Who can say?
Amanda: I agree. I'd rather them slam closed than slam open.
Eric: Yes. Yes.
Julia: Yes, I agree to that.
Eric: Nothing should slam open.
Amanda: No, I agree.
Julia: That's the opposite of what it should do. Cole finishes out by saying, “I also occasionally feel my cat jump onto my bed only to peek my head up to see which one it was and find that neither of them were there.” There we go.
Eric: Wooh.
Amanda: That’s cool.
Julia: Ghost cat.
Eric: I like that with that second story. The Spirits gave you an off ramp. They’re like, “If you pick the right cards, you can go home.”
Julia: [Chuckles] I like that the, the ghost gave them a ghost cat. That's probably what happened.
Eric: Hmm. Right. Yes.
Amanda: I love the ghost cat. But it does remind me of one of my favorite sort of like quirks of living in the flesh prisons that we live in, which is like the, the phantom sensations like when you, you know, are on a boat and then you get back and you feel slightly as if you're still rocking or you're on a bike and then you – you know, you feel, as you're falling asleep, like, maybe your, your feet are still pedaling and it's just so fun. It's like, “Brains, what, what are you guys doing in there?”
Eric: I don't have this experience.
Julia: No?
Eric: I don't know what you're talking about.
Julia: You've never been on a boat for a while and then you get off the boat you feel yourself kind of rocking.
Eric: Not – I mean, like, like, immediately, but not like – not like after 10 minutes have passed really. Definitely, nothing like with the bike either.
Amanda: Occasionally, when I'm falling asleep, I'll kind of like feel those phantom sensations.
Eric: Hmm. That’s interesting.
Amanda: Dmm . on't like it. It'll feel slightly in that sort of time when my body is, you know, transitioning into sleep. I think that's when you're – you know, you're quite kind of vulnerable.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Might be an inner ear thing or supernatural.
Eric: [Chuckles]
Amanda: [Laughs] It's true. Balance.
Eric: Your head just might need some ear adjustments.
Amanda: It's true.
Eric: I believe it. I believe it.
Amanda: Julia, I also have some light flashing electric sort of situation—
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: —that I would love to tell you guys about.
Julia: Please.
Amanda: This is titled French Theater Superstitions and Haunted Wires. It comes from Tara and she writes, “Hey, everybody, love the podcast. Hope you're keeping well in these trying times. TM. Before we dive in, I just listened to your Theater Superstition Episode and thought I'd share a few French ones because I too have spent my teenage years in various drama classes. So, here, it is not blue costumes that are bad luck but green ones—
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: —for similar reasons probably. But I've also been told the stuff used in green dye used to actually poison people and slowly kill them, which is pretty unlucky.”
Julia: That wouldn't surprise me.
Amanda: Yeah, I also have read that in, in, like, Regency romance novels.
Julia: Classic.
Eric: That is – didn't that happen like with the – at the Wizard of Oz or something? Didn't like the lady with the – was it the Tin Man or was it the witch that the makeup was all bad for them?
Julia: It was the Tin Man.
Eric: Mhmm. Yeah.
Julia: The witch did catch fire during a scene, but it wasn't because she had the paint on.
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: It was because they did a pyrotechnic too close to her clothes.
Amanda: Also, we don't say break a leg, but [Inaudible 13:09 – mare], which means shit. Apparently it's because people used to come to the theater in horse-drawn carriages. So, in wishing a lot of people come to the show, you'd wish for a big pile of literal horseshit outside the theater.
Julia: I like that.
Amanda: Lovely stuff.
Eric: That's good.
Amanda: You also don't reply thank you because that's bad luck, too. So, you say to you too or just smile and nod. That I don't have an explanation for, except that theater people love to make things needlessly complicated.
Julia: That's true.
Amanda: So, back to my haunted story, I moved into my new flat in August. And it's reasonably priced and has a great view. What's not to love?
Julia: Has to be haunted.
Amanda: [Chuckles] Sure, it's a bit old and, for some reason, didn't find a tenant for months before I took it. Nothing to worry about there.
Julia: Super haunted.
Amanda: I had to do a bit of deep cleaning and my lovely elderly landlady hired some people to fix a plug here, paint a wall there, you know, maintenance. Some of those guys fully ghosted, pun intended, when it came to—
Eric: Boo.
Amanda: —putting a kitchen shelf. But, hey, I guess I don't need it. Eric, I'm sorry to trigger your, your, your bad kind of homeowner repair situation.
Eric: What's worse is, like, I had to say boo to express my dissatisfaction, which was just another pun on top of it.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: [Laughs] I love that. So, random shit just kept not working. And, as soon as I asked for professional help, things went back to normal. Exhibit A, the hot water. That water wasn't running when I moved in. So, I called the plumber. He says flick the switch and see if it goes back to normal. It probably won't work, he says. It's never that easy. Of course, it did.
Julia: That's how they make their money.
Eric: This probably won't work.
Amanda: I love that this haunting is, like, things kind of going right, which is just lovely change. Exhibit B, the mystery fuse. I've had a mystery fuse in all of my apartments and I'm so excited for this one. Okay. My fuse box is ancient and, sometimes, flips and everything goes down. I thought it was the shitty hot plates, which have now been changed. But a specific fuse actually went down that is linked to the washing machine. I asked the maintenance guy if he could show me how to take it out. So, he flicks it back up and, of course, it stays up and all is well. Update, an electrician came to change my radiators and it turns out fuses were not connected right and putting wash on was literally playing with fire. So, the ghosts clearly trying to help here
Julia: I have a, a quick sidebar. And it's that, if you can help it, don't own a fucking hot plate.
Amanda: Yeah, they're extremely dangerous. Julia, do you want to tell us why?
Julia: My husband does building inspecting and a lot of the building inspecting is he has to go into buildings to be like, “Oh, because there was a fire in here, I'm letting you know whether or not this is safe to occupy or not.” That's a huge part of this thing. 99 percent of the time, if you have a fire in a home or, like, some sort of like mixed use building, it's because someone's using a fucking hot plate and they left it on and it caught fire. Don't do that. Don't use hot plates.
Amanda: It's so true.
Julia: [Sigh] It just makes me so mad.
Amanda: If only the US would catch on to the rest of the world. Oh, also, international listeners, you might not know that, in the US, none of us have outlets with the little power toggle. Nobody has that. In the UK and many other parts of the world, there are little switches underneath all of the plugs so you can keep your, you know, Christmas lights plugged in and just switch the switch off like the actual outlet. And then you don't have to go unplugging various things and appliances. And keeping the outlet off until you need to use an appliance is the norm. Much safer.
Julia: Yes.
Eric: Yeah, but we have freedom and civil liberties. So—
Julia: [Laughs]
Amanda: Oh, if only we had civil liberties.
Julia: Oh, boy.
Amanda: Exhibit C is the disappearing Wi-Fi. I don't have the best network up on my hill. But, one Saturday, it was particularly awful and kept turning on and off. Although, it happened to hold up really well when I was on a video call with a friend I hadn't seen in ages. I said out loud I was going to call the phone company and, ever since, it's been fine.
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: So, I guess my ghost supports friendships and not wasting tech supports time.
Julia: I just really liked that this ghost is like, “Oh, you're gonna get a professional. I'll stop. I'll stop now.”
Amanda: I think that this ghost, Julia, is trying to train Tara to be a, you know, person renting an apartment asking for help, you know, getting what she needs when she needs it.
Julia: Yeah, that's impressive. I wish a ghost would train me to be more of an adult.
Amanda: Totally. And then two final updates. One is my boyfriend stayed over for a bit and suspects the ghost to actually be next door as that place looks empty. Except for the one time he saw a light come on when he went on the terrace late in the evening. A light, we have never seen again.
Julia: Uh-oh. Whoa.
Eric: Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
Julia: Maybe they're trying to show that apartment and they just left the light on that one time.
Amanda: It's possible, but, like, why has no one moved in if it's – if it's well priced in a nice old building? Who can say? The final update, the smell.
Julia: Uh-oh.
Amanda: I know you mentioned this.
Eric: That, no.
Julia: Uh-umm.
Eric: Uh-umm.
Amanda: No?
Julia: We’re not about this.
Eric: I am not about the smell.
Amanda: [Laughs] I know you guys mentioned this and I can confirm it is extremely creepy. There is a phantom smell in my hallway. It vaguely smells like petrol and something else that I can't really identify when I walk in the door sometimes. It's just one specific spot and then it just goes away. I don't know if the ghost is trying to warn me of something, but, considering everything is electrical in my flat, I don't really know what it can mean. Like, there's no gas power, in other words. Other than that, all quiet on the ghost front for now. Stay creepy. Stay cool.
Julia: Petrol gas smell, that's not good. You shouldn't smell that when you walk into your home.
Amanda: No, I hope that this ghost is not foretelling arson. Maybe it's possible that the ghosts used to work in the petrol station or was like a, a gas, you know, maintenance person and maybe it's just a little echo. But, considering all of the home repairs, I wonder – I don't know. Is he telling you that, like, gas stove would be more efficient or that, you know, your hot water heater should switch over to oil. That seems bad.
Julia: Yeah. No, I don't like that. Don't like it one bit.
Amanda: Well, I did like the French theater superstitions. So, Tara, thank you.
Eric: I've got a story about when this lovely lady's boyfriend nearly got gut by an old lady—
Julia: Ooh.
Eric: —in a dream.
Julia: Ooh.
Amanda: Ooh.
Eric: So, this comes to us from Zoey and she writes, “I listen to your podcast all the time at work. And these episodes are my favorites. I have a few other smallish, creepy-ish stories I might send in some time, but this email is for a weirdly realistic dream my boyfriend, Nino, had the other night. It's notable because he doesn't really dream very much. But I asked his permission to retell it to you here.
Amanda: As someone who also doesn't remember her dreams that often and whose dreams are generally very mundane like taking out the trash or doing laundry, I am already identifying with Nino here. And, so, I, I'm quite excited.
Eric: Well, it all started out in a church. Nino said that it looked familiar like a Catholic Church he's, he'd been to years ago with his dad. There was a group of kids offering bags of Cheez-Its and they asked if he'd like some. Now, Julia, turned her head when I said Cheez-Its. And that is—
Julia: I love Cheez-Its.
Eric: —the reason that I picked the story.
Julia: Aww. Thank you.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Eric: Because I saw the word Cheez-It and I get – I went up, “I’m in.”
Amanda: Whatever this is.
Eric: I don't care what the rest of this is about. I'm sure we will find something funny about Cheez-Its.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Julia: Cheez-Its.
Eric: The children offered him the Cheez-Its and asked if he'd like some. “No, thank you,” he said. They kept offering. A little old lady approached him and, again, offered the Cheez-Its.
Julia: Take the Cheez-Its.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Eric: “Are they free?” he asked. “Of course,” said the old lady, but you can make a donation in that box if you'd like. Nino explained he didn't have any money. “You should stay for the service then,” the old lady suggested. Nino thought a moment and then said, “Maybe. I'm pretty busy. I might not be able to come back.”
Amanda: [Laughs]
Julia: [Chuckles]
Eric: The old lady smiled. “You should schedule your meetings around Season's greetings,” she said.
Amanda: [Gasps]
Eric: Note that is the direct quote straight from the dream according Nino.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Julia: [Chuckles] Incredible.
Amanda: I’m loving this.
Eric: You should schedule your meetings around the season's greetings.
Julia: [Chukles] Very good.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Eric: The season’s greeting here are would you like so Cheez-Its, I guess. Nino continued chatting with the old lady talking about the church and how it looked familiar. After a while, he had to go. “Since you seem so knowledgeable and kind, would you like to use the shortcut?” the old lady asked.
Amanda: [Gasps]
Julia: Uh-oh.
Amanda: Oh, my god. Guys, I'm so nervous.
Eric: A second location.
Amanda: A second location. Never. Never. Don’t go through the wormhole. Don’t go through the fairy bower.
Julia: You know. You know better.
Amanda: You know better. Don't take the fairy Cheez-Its, Nino.
Julia: You should take the fairy Cheez-Its, though.
Eric: Nino agreed and followed her from the sanctuary to the annex where the old lady pushed a wood panel to reveal a small crawlspace like a door.
Amanda: Aaah!
Julia: You know, what’s usually the small crawlspace like a door in a church? Catacombs. Dead bodies.
Amanda: Yeah. Or it's like a priest hidey hole and you can't get out.
Eric: Priest – what's a priest hidey hole?
Julia: Yeah, explain a priest hidey hole to us.
Amanda: Oh, no. No. Yeah, there's probably an actual name for it. But, like, during the Inquisition, a lot of either dwellings or churches, monasteries, stuff like that would have like a, a hidden compartment. So, if somebody came through—
Eric: Mhmm.
Amanda: —you know, trying to Inquisition everywhere, they could hide.
Julia: Trying to Inquisition everywhere.
Amanda: They didn't do it in a limited fashion. They really did it everywhere.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: Nino asked, “Can I come back later through the store?” The old lady nodded. Nino – not, not enough confirmation for me.
Julia: Uh-umm.
Eric: I'm gonna need – I’m gonna need a hard yes verbally for me to go back through this creepy hallway.
Julia: Oh, boy.
Eric: Nino slipped through the door and crept down the hall. Eventually, he came to a dusty, dirty, deserted room. As he entered, a wooden gate shut behind him and the old lady began screaming. “Who's yours? Who's yours?” she screamed.
Julia: Oh, no.
Eric: Again, direct quote.
Amanda: What?
Julia: Oh, no.
Eric: Nino's first instinct was to say Jesus Christ.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Eric: Oh, not at the surprise kind of way. So, just a hard Jesus Christ.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Not the surprise kind of way, but in the God's children kind of way. But he realized that that didn't make sense as an answer.
Julia: [Laughs]
Eric: But then it hit him with a chill. She wasn't talking to him. She was talking to what was in the room with him.
Julia: Oh, no.
Amanda: Aaah!
Eric: Nino hadn't seen anything when he entered. But, now, he knew he needed to leave. He looked at the gate and knew he couldn't move it. However, Nino sleeps with an eye mask on and realize that, if he took off the eye mask, he would be awake.
Amanda: [Gasps]
Eric: So, he did. But, when he opened his eyes, the wooden gate was still there.
Julia: Oh, no.
Eric: And Nino felt the [Inaudible 23:07 – rush] of panic before he woke up for real. Lying in bed next to me. The sunlight streaming in through the window with his eye mask off.
Amanda: Holy shit.
Julia: Oh, what's it called when you can control your dreams?
Amanda: Lucid?
Julia: He tried really hard—
Eric: Astral projection.
Julia: Not astral projection. He tried really hard to lucid dream his way out of that situation.
Eric: He did.
Julia: I respect it.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: This is the most terrified an urban legend has made me in a long time.
Eric: I’m really happy with this because it's got a good balance of, of horror and comedy.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: That’s all we ask for.
Amanda: Yeah. I mean, Nino, thank you for sharing it with us. I – holy shit.
Eric: Nino relayed all of this to me. And, after I was done screaming into a pillow about how our creepy old lady nearly got my boyfriend eaten by something, I asked if I could tell Spirits and asked if there were any other details he could remember. He paused a moment and then said, “The Cheez-Its. They were gluten free.”
Amanda: [Laughs]
Julia: [Gasps]
Eric: [Chuckles] Nino doesn’t eat a gluten free diet? So, why would that be the devil's lure of choice? I don't know. But, evidently, it was effective. Stay creepy. Stay cool. Stay away from Cheez-Its.
Julia: I feel like I'd still eat some cursed gluten-free Cheez-Its.
Amanda: Guys, I'm gonna have to just unpack this for a full few minutes here. I think I've been playing so much Pokemon recently on my Twitch channel that my first thought is like, “Do you know the Sunfisk? It's like a flat Pokemon that looks like a bear trap.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: And then it has a little Pokeball in the middle as like a lure. That was my first – my first thought. It’s like, “Oh, they're using the Cheez-Its as the Pokeball in the middle of the Sunfisk to lure in prey.” But, listen, I am going to have to ask for Nino to replicate the exact circumstances of his entire day before he had the stream so that he can have more of them and tell us. Because the content of this podcast depends on Nino now.
Julia: [Chuckles] Oh, very good. Very, very good.
Amanda: I love this. I love every element of it. I love that the, the old lady was clearly using Cheez-Its. Like, even in the most charitable reading, she's using Cheez-Its to recruit people to church, which I mean cool. Like, that's a – that's quite a strategy. And the fact that she led him through this passageway and then either was surprised by this kind of malevolence or wanting to sort of like force a confrontation. I need to know everything. This is so much.
Julia: Amanda, I think you need to decompress a little from the story. Why don't we grab a refill?
Amanda: Let's do that.
Midroll Music
Amanda: Julia, I've been working on a tattoo throughout quarantine. And something else I have been doing over the last few weeks is doing some yoga on my roof in the morning. And that has been really exciting. But, with a fresh tattoo, I cannot move around that much and put weight on it. So, this morning, instead of doing my yoga, I did a little bit of a meditation through Calm, which is a wonderful app that I normally use at night to help me get to sleep or if I want to drown out any ambient noise that’s loud on my block and I just want to, like, read and have some nice little soundscapes going on. But being able to do a guided meditation with them was really, really useful and helped me get in the right headspace for my day. And that is what Calm is all about. They are a mental wellness app that gives you the tools to improve the way you feel, whether it is those daily meditations. You can use their music tracks. And, of course, they're very, very good sleep stories, including Lucy Lou read, which, you know, what more could you ever want.
Julia: And, if you go to calm.com/spirits, you'll get a limited offer of 40 percent off a Calm premium subscription, which includes hundreds of hours of programming and new content is added every week. So, for listeners of the show, Calm is offering a special limited time promotion of 40 percent off a Calm premium subscription at calm.com/spirits. That is C-A-L-M.com/spirits for 40 percent off unlimited access to Calm’s entire library. That's calm.com/spirits.
Amanda: Something else that makes me feel really, like, grounded and present is watching people who are really good stuff talk about the thing that they're good at. And that is one of the many reasons that I turn to Skillshare, where, even if I don't particularly want to learn a task for me and, like, Skillshare is great at that, it's also just entertaining for me and calming to watch people who are good at a thing do their thing. And, recently, I watched a class called Video for Instagram - Telling an Engaging Story in Less Than a Minute. And the teacher was just so soothing and confident in, in teaching this course where, even though I'm not, like, doing Video for Instagram as a job and I enjoy other people's videos on Instagram, it was still a way to be like, “Wow. There's a real craft of this and a real art to it.” And this, you know, is some of the stuff that people think about when we're thinking about how to do a great job at doing this task. And nothing is better than Skillshare, whether you are trying to learn something for work, something for your creativity, something to just sort of take your mind off the world and focus on a hobby or something lovely like animation, or productivity, or photography. Whatever it might be Skillshare is where you want to do that. So, go to skillshare.com/spirits to sign up for a free trial of Skillshare premium membership. That's skillshare.com/spirits where you can sign up for your free trial of premium membership.
Julia: So, Amanda, let's say that you've just started an online store and you're doing something that you love. You're selling products to people that want your products. And orders are coming in because, obviously, you're making really good stuff. Now, the hard part, Amanda, for me always is shipping products out. I hate waiting in line at the post office. Even though the post office literally right next door to me, I hate walking over there. It's terrible. But, thankfully, I use ShipStation, which is simple to import, manage, and ship your orders out fast for a lot less money. And it's no wonder that ShipStation is the number one shipping software for e-commerce sellers with more five star reviews than anyone else. So, no matter what you're selling, if you're on Amazon, if you're on Etsy, if you're on your own website, ShipStation funnels all of your orders into one simple interface that you can manage from anywhere, even your cell phone. So, ship more in less time. Use our offer code Spirits to get a 60-day free trial. That is two months free of no hassle stress free shipping. Just go to shipstation.com, click on the microphone at the top of the page, and type in Spirits. That's shipstation.com, enter the offer code Spirits, and make ship happen.
Amanda: And, now, let's get back to the show. So, guys, I am drinking this week Cantina Hyena from one of my favorite breweries, Kings County Brewers Collective, KCBC, here in, in Bushwick, Brooklyn. And it is like a Creamsicle. The description that they say is that it has orange marmalade haze in your glass. It is mango, passionfruit, strawberry, banana, and then there's some milk sugar. So, I take a Lactaid. This is my dairy for the week. And I am all in. It's so good.
Eric: [Chuckles]
Julia: That sounds incredible. That sounds really, really good. I had a case KCBC beer as well, Amanda. It was the Dos Puertas, which was like a barrel-aged sour with tangerine and also like a little bit of chili or something in it. It was incredible. It was really, really good. It was like tart and also a little spicy. And it was like perfect with the pizza that Jake made that week. It was – it was great.
Amanda: Yum. If you have access to KCBC in your area, good got to pick them up. They're beautiful.
Julia: They’re real good.
Eric: And I had the new Mexican lager from a Great Lakes Brewing Company, which has a nice hint of lime. Good summer drinking—
Julia: Ooh.
Eric: —out of a can this year.
Amanda: We love a hint of lime.
Julia: Love a hint of lime.
Amanda: Usually, I try to keep our urban legends to one, one church and Catholicism-related one per episode—
Julia: Uh-oh.
Amanda: —but I do have a very good short one that I would love to share.
Julia: Please.
Amanda: This is from our Armita and it is titled Art: The Curse of the Creepy Haunted Jesus as Told by my Grandma.
Julia: Okay.
Eric: Hmm. Hmm. There's a lot, a lot happening there.
Amanda: This was told to me by my grandma about a family that she knew. A bit of context for those who might not be familiar, even to this day, Catholicism is the prominent religion in Mexico. So, back in the late 50s where our story takes place, going to church was all the rage. And the clerical figures were even more prominent pillars of the community. Now, this is a family who lived in a small city in the south east coast of the Gulf of Mexico. They've been going through a rough patch lately; sickness, bad luck in business, the works. As Catholics, they invited the Monsignor for lunch and hope to ask for some guidance and reassurance. And, for anybody who are not familiar with Catholic clergy, that is like a senior position in the Roman Catholic Church. Yeah. While the mother was setting the table, the Monsignor kept looking at a painting they had in the dining room.
Julia: Uh-umm.
Amanda: “Where do you get this painting dear?” he asked. He was referring to the framed picture of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, a very common depiction of Christ. The mother absolutely loved the painting and was delighted that the man appreciated it too.
Julia: [Chuckles] Uh-oh. That's not what it's gonna be though.
Amanda: She proudly replied that it was a gift that she got some time ago, but could not remember who gave it to her. And, for context, this might be familiar to Catholics, but, for everybody else, it is a picture Jesus kind of like doing a little like point off to the side type situation.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And you can see like a glowing part of his chest with a heart inside of it and like the Sacred Heart is like a big thing in Catholicism. It's also ringed by thorns in most depictions because crown of thorns when he's crucified. It’s the whole thing. That's fucking metal, though. And some versions of this painting can get particularly, like – you know, this is a – this is a real, like, Gothic sort of scene that we're depicting.
Julia: It can be a little gnarly sometimes.
Amanda: It can be a little gnarly.
Julia: It's not Catholicism if there isn't like bones, or blood, or other things.
Amanda: Yes, I used to live near the Most Precious Blood Church in Astoria. And, again, make sense in context, not so much out of context.
Julia: [Chuckles] Sounds creepy out of context.
Amanda: So, to this, the Monsignor said, “Come here, child, and look at the picture.” She did as she was told. “It’s so pretty,” she thought. And then the man asked her to look at the hands. Horrified. The woman observed—
Eric: Oh, no. Oh, no. What’s wrong with the hand?
Amanda: —that the figure had long claws-like nails.
Julia: No.
Amanda: And, what was worse, the family was certain that they did not used to be there.
Julia: No.
Eric: Oh.
Amanda: The Monsignor—
Eric: Oh, wait.
Amanda: [Laughs] This is the worst I've seen Eric look in a while.
Eric: I don't like, like what, what happened, why the hand change.
Julia: Why?
Eric: Why the hand change on the picture? Maybe it was one of those bad art restores.
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: Oh, that's possible.
Eric: They snuck over there and like, “I'll make this look a little bit better.” And they just made the fingers too long. That's, that’s what I am now choosing to believe happened.
Julia: Okay. Fair. Fair.
Amanda: That would be a fucking sick prank. Like, I, I don't condone drawing on anybody's artworks, particularly, artworks of religious significance. But, if it were a prank, it'd be pretty cool. The Monsignor said some prayers before taking the picture down, then proceeded to cover it and take it with him for safe disposal.
Eric: Uh-oh.
Julia: Brutal.
Amanda: I would love to know what he did to get rid of it. But I think we can safely assume it was burned to a crisp in some ritual.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: And the ashes were given a healthy dose of salt and holy water for good measure. I haven't heard of like salting ashes, but that's really interesting. And guess what? The family's luck changed almost overnight.
Julia: Ooh.
Amanda: So, I guess the moral of the story is to be mindful of what you have hanging on your walls and keep a watchful eye on it because you never know when it might reach out and scratch your luck.
Julia: I hate that last line, first off.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: I love it. Armita, great job.
Eric: No.
Julia: Secondly, wild that it's like a religious artifact or a religious painting that got kind of demonic, I guess, is a good way to describe it.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: That's wild. Usually, you know – like, you know, you put the crucifixes up to, like, ward things away.
Amanda: Exactly.
Julia: And, sometimes, when it's a particularly nasty haunting, or possession, or whatever, you know, they'll turn the crucifixes upside down or whatever. But I’ve never heard of a picture of Jesus being transformed into something demonic. Ooh.
Amanda: Extremely scary. And, just the idea of, like, the art changing in your home, that is like – that's some creepy shit to me.
Eric: Yeah, I don't like that part.
Amanda: Even more than objects moving, more than smells, I think. Objects that you've had for a long time being subtly different is like an honest mindfuck.
Eric: Hmm.
Amanda: Like, I, I know that's a phrase we use, but, like, that is – that is truly the best phrase I can think of.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: I kind of wanted to read this in the first half, but I figured my Cheez-It story can’t, can’t wait.
Julia: Oh, the Cheez-Its worked.
Amanda: It can wait. It can wait.
Eric: Because this was the perfect lead into Amanda's story because this is a local theater absolutely riddled with ghost.
Julia: Wooh.
Amanda: Ah, lovely.
Eric: And here's what – if I – I think we might be able to do this. But, if not, then we'll give it our best shot. We've got a couple short stories here. I think we should rank the ghosts—
Julia: Okay.
Eric: —as we go. So—
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: Breaking out a piece of paper.
Eric: Bust out a piece of paper.
Amanda: Okay. Okay. Got my notes.
Eric: So, this comes to us from Natalie and she writes, “I'll preface this by saying I don't particularly believe in ghosts. All the theater people – all the theater people are like, “I don't believe in ghosts, but let me tell you about all these ghosts.”
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: It's great.
Eric: Every single email we've gotten for the last, like, three episodes has had, like, theater ghosts with a theatre person who’s like, “I don’t believe in ghost, but I've got a bunch of ghost stories.”
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: Listen, I respected it. It makes me look – sort of lean in. Like, I get very excited. It makes me tune in even more.
Eric: Yeah. I don't particularly believe in ghosts, but I do love a good spooky story. When I moved to my college town, I got involved in the local community theater. And, over the years, I've heard several stories of the ghosts that inhabit her.
Julia: Ooh.
Eric: Just to set up some context, the theater was built in 1909 by a man who owned a lumber business. So, this, this guy, top of the charts, very creepy.
Julia: Oh, yeah.
Eric: Owning a lumber business. I don't – I don't buy it for one second at the turn of the century.
Julia: True capitalists. No, thank you.
Eric: Because of this, it was built out of wood instead of stone like most other buildings at the time. This will become relevant later. It's one of those beautiful, old gilded theatres that I can say from personal experience feels a bit sinister when you're alone late at night. Over the years, it had served as a theater for movies, vaudeville, traveling shows, and, most recently, a thriving community theater. In its vast history, it has had a share of creepy happenings.
Amanda: Now, guys, what do we think makes this theater seem particularly creepy when you walk in? Is it the fact that it is the gilded age theater where there are faces carved into literally every fucking service?
Eric: Oh, I was gonna say the faces.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: I was gonna say the faces of the mask that are gonna be carved.
Amanda: Yeah, every fucking surface has faces carved or painted or gilded onto it. And I do not like it.
Eric: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Julia: Truly terrible.
Amanda: I do not wish it. I, I wish no faces in my house. My face should be the only face in my house, okay?
Julia: Amanda goes, “No paintings. No illustrations of faces. No mirrors.”
Amanda: No. No. No. Now, I'm picturing though. Like, imagine you go – you come home and every piece of art or photo with a face in it in your home is like suddenly very angry or pained looking. This modified Christ painting is really hanging over my head here.
Julia: Uh-umm.
Eric: Yeah, but also, on the other hand of that, if every picture is of you and Eric in your house and all of those pictures have also changed and you have the exact memory of the photo being taken, that's also bad if that has changed. So, really, there's no good situation with this, I feel like.
Amanda: Except for no faces.
Eric: Except for no faces.
Amanda: Except for no faces.
Eric: Well, you said you're – only your face. And I'm saying only your face also has some downsides.
Amanda: Ooh. No. No. No. Only my – only my current human face. Not, not depicting—
Eric: Oh, only your literal human—
Amanda: [Chuckles] Yes.
Eric: —physical form is allowed to be a face in your – in your apartment.
Amanda: I guess, Eric’s. Well, he lives there. But, you know – but I—
Eric: Well, I – yes, I—
Amanda: I might rethink that.
Julia: Okay.
Eric: Well, well, think of that while I read story number one. I'll start with the fire. Remember how it was a completely wood building? Well, in December 1920, the stage caught fire after a boiler explosion. Fortunately, asbestos fire cordoned – whoops.
Amanda: Oop.
Eric: We didn't know any better. Kept the damage to the stage. And, as far as we know, there were no casualties. However, when the theater opened months later, various people independently reported seeing a figure that happened to be a janitor walking backstage and under the stage where the dressing rooms are. He kept making appearances and someone eventually decided to bust out a Ouija board. Always a great idea.
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: Through that, they learned that the janitor’s name is Ned and he lived and died at the theater. As I said earlier, we have no proof of casualties in that fire. But Ned has become a main stay at the stage.
Julia: Just sad. All right. Number one is Ned.
Eric: Yes, we – so, we've got Ned possible fire ghost.
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: But what he's doing is – I mean he's just kind of like there, right?
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: He's not causing fires. Maybe he's protecting the theater that he loved.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: It doesn't have to be sad.
Eric: I mean maybe he cleaned up after the fire because he appears to possibly be a janitor. So, like, maybe he's good.
Julia: I'm saying it's sad that he lived there and then died there.
Eric: Hmm. Yeah, I feel like we've established that you can die elsewhere and now inhabit a different place.
Amanda: Yes.
Eric: I feel like we've, we've well established that—
Julia: We’re there.
Eric: —that's at this point.
Amanda: That’s true. That's true.
Eric: Here's story number two. Another eerie story is about the old grand chandelier. The current one is quite big and lovely, but the old used to take up almost half the ceiling of the auditorium.
Amanda: Oh, boy.
Eric: One day, staff walked in to discover the grand chandelier had fallen in the middle of the night. This isn't that strange, but they could find no reason why. I think it's kind of strange. I mean maybe they—
Julia: It’s the Phantom of the Opera, obviously. Come on.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Eric: There was no damage to the ceiling or the mechanisms where the chandelier attached. It simply seemed to have fallen for no reason. Some believe one of our ghostly friends was unhappy and wanted to make their feelings known, but we shall never know.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: So, no specific ghost. I just wrote chandelier for this one.
Eric: Chandelier.
Amanda: I mean, I guess, it's possible that the chandelier was like some kind of – you know, something was disintegrating or, you know, bending and it was going to fall. What if a ghost made it fall when the theater was out of use? Because, for it to fall in the night, not during a performance, like that's a pretty narrow window of time for nobody to be in the theater.
Eric: You're saying this is like a superman goes trying to stop the plane from crashing.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: And he's been holding up the chandelier during a big performance of The Taming of the Shrew and everyone left. And, once everyone had gone, gone home, then he’s like, “Finally,” and he lets it drop.
Amanda: Or he's just observing it and doing his checks. Maybe it's Ned for all we know. And the thing is going to give out. Like it's on its way.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: And he's like, “Let's do a control brush fire here.”
Eric: Hmm. Right.
Amanda: And let's make sure that the chandelier – I, I know I'm not Superman ghost. I can't solve it. I just want to make sure it falls safely.
Eric: Gotcha. That also – I like – yeah. So, are we saying that is less creepy or more – or more creepy than Ned?
Julia: Less creepy.
Eric: I feel like we've established more malevolent. So, less creepy.
Julia: Yes.
Eric: Benevolent
Julia: Ned’s still sad, but more creepy than chandelier.
Eric: Yes. Yes.
Amanda: I'm not sure why I'm in a real kind of optimistic ghost analyzing mood here. I think – I think I'm just being really driven by those Cheez-Its.
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: I'm really just like – I'm really just puffed up. I'm ready to go.
Julia: The Cheez-Its were a trap.
Eric: I mean they're good – they're a good source of energy—
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: [Laughs]
Eric: —especially the gluten free ones.
Amanda: They’re gluten free.
Eric: Story number three. The next two experiences come from our technical director who, at the time, didn't believe in ghosts. Back then, there were apartments leftover from the days of traveling vaudeville performers. And he lived there in the 80s. Working late one night, he looked out from the stage to see a man standing in the auditorium. He called out asking why he was there, but the man simply turned around and walked towards the lobby. When the director went to investigate, he was gone. Another time, while in his apartment, he watched a man walk from his kitchen into his bedroom. Needless to say, he now believes in ghosts. Now, this is top of the charts. This is the creepiest story so far.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: Por qué? Explain to me because it – because in apartment?
Eric: Yeah, I mean, if I see a figure walk from any room and then, specifically, into my bedroom, and then there's nothing my bedroom, that's creepier than a chandelier falling and possibly whatever Ned's been up to.
Julia: [Chuckles] Poor Ned.
Eric: This is definitely the creepiest one so far.
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So, apartment man is now above Ned and chandelier.
Eric: Amanda, do you agree with my ranking?
Amanda: I totally agree because I think somebody being in my apartment is like a fear that I have in regular life also.
Eric: Mhmm.
Amanda: And, so, having the supernatural element is kind of like both explanations for what's happening here. Suck. I don't like either of them.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Fair.
Eric: These are just a few of the stories told over the years. There's also been strange people seen in the balcony, cold spots, a figure lurking in the third-story window, heels clacking in the lobby, and an actress whose earrings flew off her ear during an audition when no one was around her. Oh, and, of course, the bat that sometimes lives in the second balcony and occasionally flies around the stage during the performances.
Julia: He's just living there though.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: That's not creepy. That's just his house.
Amanda: I have three things to say about this list. May I do them?
Julia: Go ahead.
Eric: Yes.
Amanda: Okay. One, bats are great. Bats are fucking adorable. They're very good for the environment. Great. Okay. Two, if I had a cold spot, a known cold spot in my home or workplace, I would really appreciate that because, especially working in a theater, you often bring – you know, work up a sweat. And I think being able to stand in a spot that you know is going to be a good temp after, you know, focusing the lights or working under the lights, whatever, that would be great to me.
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: And, three, that's just a life hack, people. If your earring back keeps falling off, you can squeeze the two little lobes together and that'll tighten it.
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: Know what I mean? Like, like, like a regular post back the backing of the earring and just squeeze it together slightly, gently. And it'll tighten it back up. Just a little tip from me to you.
Julia: Good to know.
Eric: Well, there is our, our mega list of this – of this spooky theater from Natalie.
Amanda: I think our rankings are definitive, everybody.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. I think it has to be. So, I have a email titled That Culty, Creepy Castle in the University's Backyard from Owen.
Amanda: Hmm. Delicious.
Eric: Oh, boy.
Julia: And he writes, “I really appreciate and enjoy your podcast. Although, I've never really been one to believe in most paranormal, spiritual, mythological—
Amanda: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Julia: —or otherwise experiences or events. I love to hear about what might be and why other people believe what they believe,” which is great. Thank you for listening to the show. To that point, I unfortunately don't know very many stories that would work for your urban legends episodes, but I do know a few. As I remember others, I may send more emails. But, now, first, the story. I live in Chapel Hill, North Carolina part of the triangle as it is colloquially known, an area between three fairly major cities around here also known as Liberal Bubble of Bubbles. This is in no small part due to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill the “first public institution of higher learning in US to open its doors in 1795 when it completed construction on its first building,” according to Wikipedia.
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: Anyway, this university has become famous for many things; from being ranked number five in the list of top public schools in the country to being the place where Michael Jordan was the first person to correctly identify the ceiling of a stadium as also being a roof. I don't get that reference, but I appreciate it. But I digress. The story I tell you today or really the legend I described to you is that of the Order of Gimghoul operating out of Hippol Castle on Gimghoul Road. So, you know that they are all great, easygoing, and, totally didn't do anything suspicious or creepy at all. I first learned about this when I was very young, probably, 10 or 11 and was part of a small local running club that often went by the area. Side note, this running club was divided based on skill and endurance level starting with the little dogs working all the way up through middle dogs and then ending with the big dogs. There was also a group called the hybrids, which are somewhere between middle and big. Why? I couldn't say, but I thought you might enjoy that puppies-themed tidbit.
Eric: Always. Always.
Julia: Again, I digress. To get back to the main point, I must simply highlight to you that it was a big deal to get to run and do other such things near the Gimghoul Castle as it was rumored that someone had once been murdered there. Plus, it was a real live Castle in the middle of a modern day college campus. Who wouldn't want to see that? Certainly, I did. The keep out private property sign alone was enough to pique my interest. Getting there was a bit tricky as the castle itself is located down a fairly long road past a residential development. There was always this kind of reverence silence we were encouraged to develop upon nearing the place and such a reminder was certainly necessary for quieting the chattering of 10 year olds. Normally, we would keep a respectful distance from the aforementioned keep outside, but there were a few exceptions. On more than one occasion. I remember secretively along with a smattering of other youngins being led by a few adults beyond the sign so that we could run back and forth in relays with even more proximity to the foreboding structure of Gimghoul Castle terrified to be caught. We were but innocent little children led into the shadow of a looming edifice and surrounding dark forest by well-meaning but perhaps ignorant adults. We feared little, but maybe we should have. We knew that the castle had been occupied by the presence of a car in its driveway. That was consistent. What we didn't know was how such occupants might retaliate against us with the police, with train dogs, with prosecution, with the supernatural. These were questions we did not know the answers to. But, as all good and exciting things do, it had to come to an end. We'd end our relays and turn back to the blandness of the residential street from whence we came disappointed we could not venture further even with the risk that might entail. I must emphasize again to you the creepiness of seeing, even from a distance, the strangely named castle on the strangely named road shrouded in mystery and literal shadow. The forest is really dense there. And, in general, what seemed like a postcard from a Stephen King now plaguing my admittedly skeptical subconscious. Well, this is where my personal experiences with Gimghoul and its accoutrements end. I have since done some research to find out more about the strange anomaly. In other words, now that you've heard the creepy anecdote, you can learn about the cool backstory.
Amanda: Hey, I see what you did there.
Julia: He also writes, “I'm cringing as I type this.” The Order of Gimghoul, as it is formally known, is a collegiate secret society that was founded in 1889 by students of the University at the time. It is open to “notable” male upperclassmen and faculty and focuses on the legend of Peter Dromgoole, a student who mysteriously disappeared from the campus in 1833. The Order is private. Membership is closed. And information about its activities is strictly confidential. Anything more recent than 50 years is completely locked away, except upon explicit permission by the Order. It was actually originally called the Order of Dromgoole, but the founders seem to think that even that was giving too much away about their interest saying in archives that they would change their name to Gimghoul “in accord with midnight and graves and weirdness.” “In accord with midnight and graves and weirdness.”
Amanda: Geez.
Eric: It’s too much. Well, the secret society shit is just too, too much – too much.
Amanda: I'm reading a, a romance novel right now where the protagonist, like, turns down membership in such a society. He's like, “Hey, you guys are toxic You guys suck.” I'm thrilled to see it replicated in the email today.
Julia: They are said to be held to the “Dromgoole legend and ideals of Arthurian knighthood and chivalry.” And, according to accounts, the society holds no secret agendas.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: But, at the same time, according to logic and reason and history, we know not to believe that for a second.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: I'm sure you're wondering what is this legend of Peter Dromgoole. And, if you weren't, you certainly are now. Well, I'm here to answer you. The following is a direct quotation from an artist describing it. “The legend goes that Peter and another student were in love with the same girl, Fanny.”
Amanda: It's always Fanny. A co-ed love interest is always named Fanny.
Julia: It's just true. That's just how it is. One day, the opponents cross paths. When Peters opponent offended him with a shove, Peter challenged him to a duel, as you fucking do. They met at a rock where Peter and Fanny would meet. The duel began. Peter lost. Panicking, the young man present buried Peters body beneath the rock. Rumors spread of Dromgoole’s disappearance. And it was said that Fanny eventually died of grief because, of course, why not? Why not? That same rock is on the property of Hippol Castle, the castle where the Order holds all of their meetings is located. Well, I'd love to go into the story even more and, believe me, there is more. This email is already way too long. So, I'll give you just a few more brief notes. The Order has a history of being inspired by death and, more specifically, the devil. I invite you to look at their creepy black and white photos of their membership and their accompanying imagery. I've included a few with a link below. I will include that in the Patreon show notes. The fact that all members of this society are male and privileged elite ones at that makes this all the more suspicious to me. Who can say what they did or what they said behind closed doors? As far as I can see, most historical members have been white too, which is no surprise there. The site on which the castle sits is 2.15 acres and has a taxable value of over $1 million.
Amanda: Hmm.
Julia: It's also a contributing member of the Chapel Hill Historic District. So, I guess, even creepy white guys like to support the preservation of history. Of course, they do. They are history if you read the history books. Or maybe I'm reading into that too kindly. Some preservation is better than other preservation. I remind you that UNC is the campus that experienced the whole Silent Sam debacle lately.
Eric: Hey.
Julia: Yeah. So, not great. All in all, I hope that you enjoyed this little tidbit from my hometown and university. And that is Owen, who is a 16-year-old with a podcast passion.
Amanda: Aww. Thanks for writing in.
Julia: That's so great. Thank you, Owen.
Eric: Well, thank you all for joining us for another hometown urban legends episode. We've, we've, we've done some rankings. We've talked about some real spooky stuff. And I think that we've, we've maybe discovered something about—
Amanda: About cheesy snack foods. And go on over to our Instagram @SpiritsPodcast and we're gonna have a little poll there. Would you eat the Cheez-Its or not?
Julia: Okay.
Eric: I would eat the Cheez-Its.
Julia: I would eat the Cheez-Its.
Eric: For sure.
Amanda: I would not eat the Cheez-Its. Let's see who comes out on top. Well, remember everybody.
Julia: Stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil