Three Wise Monkeys
/Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. You might have heard this phrase before (or at least seen the cute little monkey emojis on your phone), but do you know where it comes from? 🙉 🙈 🙊 We do a deep dive into the philosophical and religious origins of the Three Wise Monkeys!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of sexual content and atomic warfare.
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About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And Amanda, if I covered my eyes, and then covered my ears, and then covered my mouth, what would that mean to you?
AMANDA: I would say, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil, aka, some of my very favorite emojis to use when I'm like, "I made a little mistake, but aren't I a cute, little rascal?"
JULIA: Incredible. Yes, Amanda, I think a lot of us have probably heard the phrase, "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil." But do you know where that phrase comes from?
AMANDA: None. None, whatsoever.
JULIA: Do you have a guess?
AMANDA: Probably East Asia, but I don't think I can get more specific than that.
JULIA: No, actually, that's really interesting, because I really thought maybe it's because of my upbringing, my Western Catholic perception, or what have you, but, like, hearing the mention of evil, I always sort of assumed this was a Christian thing.
AMANDA: I think I was thinking more about where monkeys are from, because it's not the west, so—
JULIA: That's true.
AMANDA: And it's not Europe, and so that's my best guess.
JULIA: No, Amanda, that's a great point. My brain didn't go past that. I just thought of the phrase and I said, "I don't know, Christianity, probably."
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: I could be more wrong, but you couldn't be more correct, Amanda.
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: Because this phrase, as well as the imagery that accompanies it, these three monkeys covering their ears, their eyes, and their mouths, respectively, actually comes from a Japanese proverb. But even more so, it has even more of a history. These three monkeys, did you know actually have names in this, like, Japanese maxim?
AMANDA: No, I did not.
JULIA: It is Mizaru, which means does not see, Kikizaru, which means does not hear, and Iwazaru, which means does not speak.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: Now, this, like, maxim, this proverb, was popularized in Japan, but we will get to that in a little bit, because we need some history, Amanda. We need to track this sort of thing in order to better understand it, right? And that's the point of Spirits Podcast.
AMANDA: Let's go deep, baby.
JULIA: Yes. So, first, I want to talk about where it probably came from before it came to Japan. There are two potential origins, both coming from China during the late centuries BCE, so somewhere between the fourth and second centuries BCE.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: The first is from the Analects of Confucius. Though, it's not a word for word origin. It is more like, "Oh, I can see this is sort of a simplified version of what's being said here."
AMANDA: Got it.
JULIA: The Analects of Confucius say, quote, "Look not at what is contrary to propriety. Listen not to what is contrary to propriety. Speak not what is contrary to propriety. Make no movement which is contrary to propriety."
AMANDA: Got it. Like, don't tempt yourself with the shit that you know you should not be doing. Don't surround yourself with it.
JULIA: Exactly. So you can see very similar sentiment to our hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. No mention of evil in this quote from the Analects of Confucius, but it does speak to propriety instead. It also adds a fourth part to this axiom, which is movement, as well as seeing, and hearing, and speaking. So I think that is interesting, and does come into play. At the very end, we'll talk about that.
AMANDA: Right on.
JULIA: The other potential origin comes from a Chinese book from the third century called Xunzi, which is a collection of philosophical writings that focused on education, and propriety, and generally posits that, quote, "human nature is detestable."
AMANDA: Okay. Not the first to make this observation, and certainly not going to be the last.
JULIA: In it, it says, quote, "The noble man makes his eyes not want to see what is not right, makes his ears not want to hear what is not right, makes his mouth not want to speak what is not right, and makes his heart not want to deliberate over what is not right."
AMANDA: Interesting.
JULIA: Now, both of these writings are inspired by or directly from Confucian traditions and teachings. For those of you who might not be familiar with Chinese philosophy, there are three important religion/philosophies that sort of shaped Chinese culture during this time period. There is Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism, together, they are known as the Three Teachings. So the idea in Chinese culture is that these three philosophies are harmonious as one, and also helped shape Chinese culture into what it was and what it is today.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So, historically, this is both true and untrue. They haven't necessarily always existed harmoniously, depending on which ruler is in charge. Some of the philosophies were held higher than others, and that shifted over time depending on who is in charge, as often does. I'll tell you a little bit about them, in case you are not familiar with the basic tenants of the Three Teachings, if you would like.
AMANDA: Let's go.
JULIA: Confucianism, which revolves around the teachings of the philosopher Confucius, focuses on adhering to social roles and hierarchy, specifically focusing on being a humane person, a righteous person, upholding propriety, loyalty, and filial piety.
AMANDA: I remember some eighth grade World History quizzes that are ringing some bells for me in the background.
JULIA: And I mean, these are, like, the basic bullet points of all of these philosophies and traditions. It's just important for us to know, like, what the focus is on, so that we can see how this builds over time. The next I'll talk about is Taoism or Daoism. It's sometimes filled with a T, sometimes spelled with a D, which is a philosophy that is about living in harmony with Tao, which is the natural way of the universe. It is the source, it is the pattern, it is the substance of all matter. Taoism is all about balance, and how balance is found throughout nature. So one of the very important pillars of Taoism is probably something that a lot of people are very familiar with, which is the Yin and the Yang. This comes from Taoism. It's about this sort of balance where nothing is all of one thing or all of another thing. In fact, that is why, you know, you have the black center on the white swirl and the white center on the black swirl. You know what I mean?
AMANDA: One of humanity's finest symbols, if I may say so myself.
JULIA: So another very important aspect of Taoism philosophy is relevant to our conversation here today, and that is Wu Wei or non-action. So this is a state of being, but not acting, more or less. For example, a philosopher or a leader could do so much action simply by not acting. They could exert influence without actually acting.
AMANDA: Gee. What a wonderful lesson in restraint and the true nature of leadership and custodianship of a country and people that I sure wish we knew more about in the US.
JULIA: So, Amanda, the third of the Three Teachings is Buddhism, which I could probably do an entire series just talking about the teachings of Buddhism. But some of the bullet points that are going to be relevant for us today here on the podcast, it teaches about rebirth and impermanence, and specifically that life is suffering, but also that suffering can be overcome through enlightenment.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Also important, especially to this episode, is the stress on the importance of right speech and right intention.
AMANDA: Right speech, right action.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Exactly. And specifically, not even just action, the intent behind the action.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Which I think is something that we often talk about in, like, conflict resolution in the modern day. Talking about intent is always very important.
AMANDA: Yes, we do. Impact over intent, but also the intent is part of this. And I think especially when you talk about how your conduct impacts others, that is an impact-centered time to be talking. But when you're thinking and kind of diagnosing your internal ecosystem, that's where intent does really matter.
JULIA: And I think that is very relevant to talking about the three wise monkeys. So we have the Three Teachings, and as is often the case, these religious and philosophical teachings end up spreading as countries and kingdoms and empires trade with each other, right? There is the physical aspect of trade, but there is also the cultural aspect of trade. And it's something that we don't often talk about on the show explicitly, but is very much implied when we're talking about cultural exchange between different regions and different groups.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So what ends up happening is a particular form of Buddhism, which is known as Tendai, was popularized by a Chinese Buddhist monk, Zhang Zhen around 754 CE. It started off, I would say, fairly modestly in Japan, but it began to grow a stronger following after its popularization by a Japanese monk named Saicho. So Saicho had joined the Japanese missions to Imperial China in 804, and there he learned about Mahayana Buddhism while he was on his travels to Imperial China, and then specifically learned about Tendai. While in China, he wrote down pretty much any writings and teachings that he could learn about Tendai Buddhism, and transcribed them from Chinese to Japanese. Upon returning to Japan, he built, and this is going to be really important to us, the Enryaku-ji, which is a Tendai monastery that overlooks the city of Kyoto. At the time, Kyoto was the imperial capital of Japan.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: The Imperial Court of Japan grew really interested in Tendai because of Saicho's reporting and Saicho became a favorite among the court, as often is the case. You know, you've— if you find a guy that you like, who's charismatic, who's teaching you about a new religion, you're like, "I like you. You can stay around." Right? "We'll fund whatever you want."
AMANDA: It's also a really good reminder that so often Imperial courtiers, if not the, like, leaders themselves, are just kind of, like, hanging out, being, you know, the rich, like being well-fed, being safe, and bored/interested, and having the actual leisure time to be able to engage in, like, huge philosophical topics of the peasantry didn't, but they're fucking tired. And who else is in a position to often interact with people who have the kind of money and access to other cultures that people like courtiers and their sort of, like, representatives do.
JULIA: Exactly. And, you know, a lot of the historical and religious culture that we can talk about from these ancient traditions survive because, basically, these courtiers were super bored, and they're like, "I don't know. I guess I'll learn about Buddhism."
AMANDA: Why not?
JULIA: So the emperor, whose favor Saicho won, died only a few years after he established his monastery. However, at that point, he had amassed something of a pretty substantial following. It is from Tendai Buddhism and Saicho's establishment of his monastery, where we begin to see some of these monkey motifs that we will talk a little bit more about. Because Buddhism itself already used monkeys in a lot of their art and their stories, particularly because, as a lot of people probably know, Buddhism came out of India, which has a very strong relationship, both like, you know, societal relationship and also mythological relationship with the monkeys from that region, as well as China does. China has a very strong mythos and folklore around characters who are monkeys or who are like a human-monkey hybrid, et cetera. So this is no surprising that, one, the monkey lore is already established. But when it comes to Japan, where Japan also kind of has a little bit of a monkey lore already existing because of Shintoism. Monkeys become this sort of religious symbolism that becomes even more common and even more popularized.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: So Shintoism, as you might recall from previous episodes focusing on Japanese culture here on Spirits, was, I would say, one of the dominant religions of Japan at the time. To this day, it is considered Japan's indigenous religion.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And this is the religious belief in Kami. Again, this is a very simplified version of what Shintoism is, but basically the idea that gods and spirits inhabit all things, including forces of nature, parts of the landscape, like every tree, every rock has a kami, has a spirit within it. Just some are bigger, and more powerful, and more important than others.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: So when Buddhism arrives in Japan, Shintoism and Buddhism become extremely synchronized. There is even, like, a Japanese word to describe the synchronization, which is called Shinbutsu-shugo. Basically, Japanese Buddhism becomes so distinctly flavored because of Shintoism, compared to how it arrived as Chinese Buddhism. And a particular form of this, specific to our conversation, specific to what will eventually become the Three Wise Monkeys, is Koshin. Now, Koshin is a Shinto Buddhism belief that is shaped by Daoism, and Koshin was founded by Tendai monks. So you kind of see how everything's coming together.
AMANDA: All of the threads, Julia, they're weaving into a beautiful portrait. And the portrait is of those three monkey emojis.
JULIA: The knot that all of these things are forming is starting to become a beautiful, like, tapestry, right?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: In Koshin, this is a fascinating aspect of a particular sect of Buddhism. Basically, it is said that there are three worms that inhabit the body.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: And basically, see everything that a person does, says, hears, et cetera, right?
AMANDA: Feels, thinks, yeah.
JULIA: Every 60 days, these worms would exit your body and would visit the Court of Destiny to report on that person's sins, more or less. The evil deeds that they did.
AMANDA: Oh, shit.
JULIA: If they report bad things to the Court of Destiny, the Court of Destiny is in charge of a person's life cycle, and so they can choose to shorten a person's life based on their misdeeds.
AMANDA: Yeah, of course. Wow, every 60 days, that's not a cadence that I can pinpoint in any other religion or tradition we've talked about.
JULIA: Interestingly, that is tied specifically to the Japanese Zodiac calendar.
AMANDA: Got it.
JULIA: And we'll talk about this in a moment. But the reason why the 60 days is important and why Koshin is tied to the Three Wise Monkeys, not just because there's also three worms there, but also because the 60th day in the Japanese Zodiac calendar is the day of the monkey.
AMANDA: Ooh. Hell yeah, dude.
JULIA: Koshin believes like— okay. These worms are gonna leave your body. However, if you do a certain ritual on that 60th day, you can stop the worms from leaving, and going, and reporting your misdeeds. Like, obviously, you should be a good person and don't do evil acts.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: But if you're worried about it, there is a ritual one can do that will stop the worms from emerging.
AMANDA: I'm sitting here being like, "Wow, 60 days, like two cycles of the moon." Like, such a good sort of cadence to, like, check in with yourself and your life and how it's going.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And not feel like you're too far in not to change, but also be able to, like, observe patterns in yourself. And then it's like, "No, no, no. You can also, like, catch those little worms and make sure that they're okay."
JULIA: Exactly. And I think this is a really interesting instance, because it sort of leads us down this road as to why the number three is so important, one in Buddhism as a whole, but also in this particular branch of Buddhism that we're talking about, the Koshin. I know that this is a lot of religious and philosophical movements to kind of take hold of and hold in your head, right? But all of these are leading into each other, which I think is very interesting from both a historian perspective, but also how it's going to form this thing that is so well known to us now. But I also think it's really important for us to understand how all of these religious and philosophical practices converge in order to give us something like the Three Wise Monkeys and hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
AMANDA: I'm so on board.
JULIA: So we'll get more to threes and monkeys just as soon as we grab our refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
[theme]
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[theme]
JULIA: Amanda, we are back. And I'll be honest, it took me a little bit to think about what I wanted to pair as a drink special for this episode. And I decided that you should do a flight of your choosing. Maybe it's a beer flight, maybe it's a wine flight. But I really like this sort of flavor of try three things, compare them to each other, and see how you feel about it.
AMANDA: On your next beer or spirit flight, or wine, or tea, or coffee. Tag yourself, which is see no evil, which is hear no evil, and which is speak no evil.
JULIA: Do a little taste and be like, "Oh, that one's clearly see no evil, and ooh, that one's hear no evil." I think that would be very fun to do.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: All right, Amanda. I'm gonna give you, actually, a sampling of beers I know you've tried before, and you'll tell me what they are in terms of hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Your first one, a Miller High Life. Your second one, Blue Point Toasted Lager. Your third one, the Montauk Watermelon Session Ale.
AMANDA: Okay. The Watermelon Session Ale is going to be speak no evil, because it makes your— is so, like, mouth-watering, and juicy, and, like, wakes up the palate that it is a call to attention to let your— the things in your mouth, stay in your mouth, you know?
JULIA: Ooh. Okay.
AMANDA: Second, I am going to say that the Toasted Lager is see no evil, because it is the most beautiful color of the three of these beers.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: And then that leaves the High Life to be hear no evil, because whenever you think to yourself, "Huh? Do I want to like tune into this gossip that I know is going to make me feel bad?" Instead, consider just listening to the bubbling of a Miller High Life, the champagne of beers.
JULIA: The champagne of beers.
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: Amanda, thank you for playing my game.
AMANDA: You're very welcome.
JULIA: We have to come back now to that Tendai monastery that I mentioned before, the Enryaku-ji, right? It's built by the monk Saichi, who brought Tendai Buddhism to Japan. I mentioned before that it was built overlooking the imperial capital of Kyoto, right?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: it was specifically built on a mountain called Mount Hiei. Now, in Shintoism, the central deity of this mountain is named Sannō. Literally, if you translate it, it means "Mountain King." As such the shrine at the top of the mountain is dedicated to the kami of the mountain, Sannō.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, Sannō's messenger in the mythology is— guess what animal, Amanda?
AMANDA: Is it a monkey?
JULIA: It is. So monkeys already had significance in Japan during this time as well. So this is not a new image that is being utilized here. But Sannō was also represented in the Mount Hiei monastery as sort of a triple god, I would say. More specifically, he was represented as a three kami, three Buddha.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Now, this is important because the number three is incredibly important in Buddhism. For example, the Three Truths of Buddhism are as follows. One, life is suffering. Two, suffering is caused by our desires, and three, eliminate desire, and thereby eliminate suffering.
AMANDA: It's pretty good.
JULIA: Pretty good. Pretty simple, you know, on paper, but having desires is very difficult to get rid of, I would argue.
AMANDA: Julia, most days I wake up and think, "Today would be easier if had no desires." You know what I mean?
JULIA: I feel that. What's interesting, though, is Tendai Buddhism further elaborates into what they refer to as the Triple Truth that, one, all things are void and without essential reality. Two, all things have a temporal or provisional reality. And three, all things are both absolutely unreal and provisionally real at the same time.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah. I get it. We're temporarily the nothingness of our stardust is, you know, combined into this form of Amanda right here, right now, but it's not forever. And ultimately, who am I, but a temporary— you know, the figure as the universe moves and breathes through its life.
JULIA: Exactly. Like I said earlier, Buddhism really teaches impermanence as one of its central tenants.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: And I think that the Tendai Triple Truth really hones that in even further.
AMANDA: I'm very glad, Julia, that we don't get high during the show, because if I were stoned and attempting to perceive this, we'd be here for about 25 minutes.
JULIA: Feel free to share some high thoughts if you have them, but— I mentioned earlier, monkeys are interesting in Japan. Part of their influence is definitely Chinese-based. They are associated with— in China, Feng Shui. And specifically in Feng Shui, the direction of northeast. For those of you who are unfamiliar with Feng Shui, it is sort of, like, the different directions have different energies, more or less.
AMANDA: Yeah. And Feng Shui does not just mean a room with contemporary furniture arranged in a, you know, deliberate way. There is a whole art science tradition to it that I encourage you to look up.
JULIA: And we'll talk a little bit about that right now. Basically, the direction of northeast was considered an area in which demons would gather and enter into the world.
AMANDA: Anyone who's been to Massachusetts, Julia, knows that's true of the US, at least.
JULIA: Animals like foxes and also monkeys were seen as guardians against demonic forces. And so part of the reason monkeys in particular were seen as these guardian spirits is word play.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: Interestingly, the Japanese word for monkey is saru, but saru is also a homonym for the Japanese word for expel, as in, like, dispel, punch out, push away, beat away.
AMANDA: Get you out of here.
JULIA: As such, and solidified in the Mount Hiei monastery, monkeys are seen as the expellers of demons.
AMANDA: And, Julia, anyone who's been to a zoo on a school trip knows that a monkey can throw some shit. And that seems like—
JULIA: Monkeys can throw some shit.
AMANDA: —a great job for a monkey when it comes to helping to defend the feng shui of my home.
JULIA: Now, this is also very important when we're talking about the placement of the Mount Hiei monastery, because the mountain of Mount Hiei is located in the northeast part of the city of Kyoto. So basically, this monastery and the monkey motifs within it were acting as guardian to the city by placing itself in the path of evil. Isn't that neat?
AMANDA: Very cool. Very cool.
JULIA: All right. So before the emergence of our three wise monkeys, the Hiei shrine also had quite a few other sacred monkeys. The first is Masaru, whose name literally can either be translated as kami monkey or demon queller.
AMANDA: Ooh. Hell yeah.
JULIA: So he is said to be the protector of the Hiei shrine, and his name can also be read as expel, much like I mentioned earlier. This is a reference to how sacred monkeys overcome obstacles and then they prevail against evil. Now, Masaru was also later tied to those Koshin rituals that I mentioned earlier, where the three worms would escape the body and then tattle on you to the Court of Destiny.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So he would be invoked in order to stop the worms from leaving the body. If you were, as we mentioned before, concerned that your actions would reflect poorly on you.
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: Now, Masaru had other names and forms. The most relevant one to us is Sarugami or the monkey kami, or the monkey god, which in this form, he was worshiped as the deity that was invoked for easy delivery and childrearing as well as fertility. He's also important to this episode, because in later versions of our three wise monkeys, he is said to be the god that the three wise monkeys report to.
AMANDA: Very cool.
JULIA: Also from this time period is the munamochisaru, or translated to English, the pillar-supporting monkey. I'm going to send you an image so you can see it real quick.
AMANDA: Oh, I love him.
JULIA: Yes. So a slightly less sacred monkey, I guess, in terms of importance, but more of a architectural protector.
AMANDA: Very cool. It reminds me of a chopstick rest, just like nicely and cutely, like holding up your chopsticks between courses.
JULIA: Yeah. So for folks who can't see the image, it is a monkey that is sort of in between beams and pillars, and so in the Hiei shrine, specifically, these monkey carvings were used to essentially hold up the beams of the entire shrine.
AMANDA: Like the opposite of a gargoyle.
JULIA: Exactly, exactly. And again, this is a reflection of the monkey's role as a protector from evil. They're very cute. And while they were mostly used for the construction of the Hiei shrine, it was also picked up by more Tendai shrines throughout Japan, and they acted as protectors to those temples as well.
AMANDA: So cool.
JULIA: So at this point, let's get to our three wise monkeys. I know that was a lot of setup. So as a reminder, we have these three wise monkeys that embody the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Again, their names are Mizaru, Kikizaru, and Iwizaru. Now, Mizaru means not seeing, Kikizaru means not hearing, and Iwazaru means not speaking. And a fun fact about those names, Amanda, they're also sort of puns.
AMANDA: Really? Love a word play.
JULIA: So as I had mentioned before, saru is the Japanese word for monkey, right? But there's also a Japanese word that sort of implies the negative, which is zaru, which phonetically sound very similar, right?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So, zaru, monkey, zaru, not.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So the literal reading of these names is, like, not seeing, not hearing, not speaking.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: But it— also, it plays with the fact that they're monkeys.
AMANDA: So good, so good.
JULIA: Isn't that incredible?
AMANDA: Words are amazing. Also, this is a total aside. This is Julia's biology corner for you, Amanda.
AMANDA: Let's go.
JULIA: The specific type of monkeys that we are talking about when we are talking about the three wise monkeys, are Japanese snow monkeys.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Are you familiar with the Japanese snow monkey at all?
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: They are super cool species. They are the only non-human primates that live in such cold climates and also as far north as they do.
AMANDA: Dang.
JULIA: Chances are you probably seen them like online, or I know that they have them at the Central Park Zoo, because they are famous for bathing together in hot springs.
AMANDA: Cute.
JULIA: It's very adorable. There's, like, a social hierarchy where it's like the higher in the hierarchy you are, they realize that that's more stressful for those people in the higher hierarchy. Therefore, they get to spend more time in the hot springs, because it evens out the amount of stress that they're feeling.
AMANDA: They're just like me, for real.
JULIA: They are just like you for real, because it's also thought that the majority of the species are bisexual.
AMANDA: Happy Pride.
JULIA: They're matrilineal in nature. The women kind of lead the pack. And also, like when the men sort of age out, when they get old enough, they send them away to go mate with other packs and stuff like that. And so the women are in charge, which is great. Scientists have found that there is more female-on-female mounting than there is female to male mounting.
AMANDA: A lot of hot tub time. It sounds like we're starting to do that, like, reverse engineering of the Mediterranean diet that was really popular in the early 2000s of like, "These old people are happy. What's happening? Not a social safety net and close family ties. Definitely red wine." I'm— so what I'm getting from this, Julia, is I should, you know, spend a lot more time in the hot tub and all bisexuals, when kind of, like, push comes to shove, feel free to just, like, mount a woman, who consents.
JULIA: Speaking of the Mediterranean diet, they are one of the few primate species that actually wash and then even season their own food.
AMANDA: Let's go.
JULIA: They'll take food that they like, and they'll be like, "Needs a little salt," and then dip it in salt water and then eat it.
AMANDA: There's a line at which monkeys, to me, go from cute and relatable to terrifyingly relatable. And watching a monkey, like, wield a chisel is one of those. Hearing that some monkeys will season their food is another.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: I've learned that about myself today.
JULIA: That's scary to you? Oh, no, I'm sorry. Here's another fun fact to kind of make you not have an existential crisis about the monkeys.
AMANDA: Thank you.
JULIA: They're one of the few species that will roll and throw snowballs recreationally.
AMANDA: Oh, so fun. So cute.
JULIA: Isn't it cute?
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: They're extremely cool, to be honest. Like, I could do a whole corner on just why the snow monkeys are awesome. That's the kind of monkey we're talking about with these three wise monkeys. Apparently, they are smart enough to be teaching us about hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. And we've established kind of where the building blocks to these three wise monkeys might have come from. But where did it become popularized? The reason that most people know about the three wise monkeys today is because of a 17th Century carving over the doors of the Tōshogū Shrine in Nikko, Japan. Now, the three wise monkeys are part of a larger motif that is carved over the stable doors, which is very interesting because it's like over where they keep the horses, essentially. It is a series of eight panels that depict a person's life cycle as portrayed in Confucius' code of conduct. The three wise monkeys are on the second panel, and I'm gonna send you what those original three wise monkeys look like.
AMANDA: Whoa. This is way more detailed than I expected and still painted. I can't believe we have the original. That's so amazing.
JULIA: Yes, incredible. To be fair, it is about 250-ish years old, maybe closer to 300, but it is well-maintained. You could go and see it today, if you really wanted to. It is absolutely gorgeous. I'm a big fan.
AMANDA: Beautiful.
JULIA: The meaning of the three wise monkeys is fairly clear when it comes to the Buddhist tradition that it comes from. It is all about not dwelling on evil thoughts. But also remember that, like, Buddhism is all about right speech, right action, right intention. So when they say hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil, it is basically saying like, "Do not allow the evil of the world to corrupt you and cause you to do evil action." As the imagery spread to the West, the interpretation sort of morphed to reflect Western sensibilities.
AMANDA: As we in the West love to do.
JULIA: Exactly. If you ask the average person in the West what hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil means it is probably a lesson on how people who sort of, you know, look the other way or refuse to acknowledge evil or impropriety are lacking some sort of moral responsibility, right?
AMANDA: Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
JULIA: You know, it's this idea of like, oh, if you saw someone doing something wrong, you would step in, right? You wouldn't just, like, you know, cover your eyes or cover your ears or not speak up.
AMANDA: I guess it's never occurred to me how I would interpret that phrase, but yeah, that seems about right? Like, oh, don't just block yourself to the things happening around you. Be an engaged, you know, bystander and citizen.
JULIA: Right. And so these are, I would say, very much opposite interpretations of that phrase, right? The Buddhist meaning— the monkeys represent ideal action so that followers can best achieve enlightenment. Do not be corrupted by the external forces of the outside world, focus on your own enlightenment, and not being corrupted.
AMANDA: And I think because in the west, we associate monkeys with, like, entertainment, or joviality, or something that is, like, not sacred or meaningful. It's like, "Oh, well, don't be like the silly monkey who, like, doesn't, you know, see anything, and is covering his own eyes. Like, no, open your eyes to the world, man." And that is so American.
JULIA: But I also think, in a way, both are good advice, right?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Just depending on what your focus is. Obviously, I don't think that people should do or say evil things. It is excellent advice to make the world a better place and to give yourself more peace. But also, we should speak up against evil actions that we see in the world if we are able to. In a world where terrible things are happening every single day, we can make a difference by seeing something, saying something, and then, like, hearing that this evil is happening and taking action against it.
AMANDA: I think all of us have had to make our own relationship with the news, for example. As, like, do I want to stick my head in the sand and not know what's going on completely? No. Can I also, like, all day long doomscroll and just, like, internalize the maelstrom of shit happening in the world? Also, no. So there— we're almost, like, describing with the same symbol, both extremes in that, and offering each other some middle path.
JULIA: Yes. Agreed. I do want to say it is not as common, but there is a fourth monkey that is sometimes included among our three wise monkeys.
AMANDA: That's right.
JULIA: This monkey is called Shizaru, and he embodies do no evil. You remember that full quote that I gave from the Analects of Confucius? It said, "Look not at what is contrary to propriety. Listen not to what is contrary to propriety. Speak not what is contrary to propriety. Make no movement which is contrary to propriety." Do you want to guess what the position of the monkey is for Shizaru, Amanda? So like, for example, hear no evil is covering his ears. Speak no evil is covering his mouth, et cetera.
AMANDA: Is he seated and meditating?
JULIA: He is covering his genitals.
AMANDA: Yep. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: There is a more kind of boring version in my mind, at least, where he is just crossing his arms. I think the covering of the genitals is way more fun.
AMANDA: You know, when it comes to improprietous acts, that's absolutely fair. If I was gonna guess the part of a human body that a person aired with, it would probably be the genitals, in fact.
JULIA: Yeah, for sure. And if we're going heralding all the way back to Buddhism and Confucianism and Daoism, and what makes a noble man and what does not make a noble man, like not a nobleman, but a noble man, propriety.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And I think propriety, even in the sort of Regency novel style, propriety.
AMANDA: Correct moral behavior.
JULIA: Keeping it in your pants.
AMANDA: Keeping it in your pants. Famously, not a thing monkeys do, but rock on.
JULIA: Especially those bisexual snow monkeys.
AMANDA: You know what, Julia? Maybe the bisexual snow monkeys are pushing back against the stereotype of bisexuals as promiscuous. So, you know, actually, snow monkey, bi icon.
JULIA: I stand by it. I love it. So that is how the three monkeys sort of got here today. So from the spread of Buddhism from India to China, where it was incorporated into the Three Teachings of Buddhism, Confucianism and Daoism. And then from there, it spread to Japan during the eighth century, where it morphed and synchronized with Japanese Shintoism to create Tendai Buddhism and then Koshin. The monkeys came with them, shifting before solidifying into protector spirits of the Hiei shrine to the carving above the Tōshogū shrine that remains there to this day. And by the Meji era, which was around the late 1800s, early 1900s, when Japan opens its borders to the west for trade, the saying spread first to Great Britain and then to the Americas. Now, they became extremely popular in Great Britain, especially as a good luck charm that was used by soldiers in World War I. They became part of American propaganda by World War II. There is a—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —wildly fascinating billboard that was put outside of the research labs for the Manhattan Project that features the wise monkeys. I'm going to send it to you real quick, because it is fascinating.
AMANDA: We sure love to tell people, don't talk about the state secrets in the war.
JULIA: Basically, it was like a image where you see Uncle Sam, and then you also see the three monkeys, and it says, "What you see here, what you do here, what you hear here, when you leave here, let it stay here."
AMANDA: Damn. Wild.
JULIA: So, basically, it was warning workers not to speak of anything that they were doing in creating the nuclear bomb.
AMANDA: Which, again, may be a time when a worker should, perhaps, I don't know, speak up about what they think they're working on. Also, this is not—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —the moral point. But have you ever seen America man? What's his name?
JULIA: Uncle Sam.
AMANDA: Uncle Sam? More ripped than this one? This is like Rosie the Riveter bicep level Uncle Sam.
JULIA: He is quite hunky, I would say.
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: If you've seen— ever seen like a sexy Santa? That's kind of the image that I'm looking at here.
AMANDA: He's like a sexy Abe Lincoln, which is not a phrase I thought I'd utter today, but damn.
JULIA: By this point, it is now so popularized in the West that it seems like pretty much anyone could identify the three wise monkeys, right? If you showed that to someone, they would know what you were talking about. They were featured in a trial scene from the 1968 Planet of the Apes, for example, you know? The three judges in Planets of the Apes were doing the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil pose. And even, Amanda, as you pointed out at the beginning of this episode, your phone has emojis of them.
AMANDA: Exactly. And as you're describing this, I'm remembering, like, all the ways that, you know, cartoons would depict, you know, like the three, I don't know, like Looney Tunes guys doing that pose. Like it became a thing that is a symbol and a pose that we are able to refer to in the West. Obviously, stripped of its religious significance and philosophical meaning, but a thing that we know three of the same thing, ideally, a monkey can do.
JULIA: So now, next time that your friend replies to your text with one of these monkeys, you now, listener, know the long journey that it took to get there.
AMANDA: And why, if you are a bisexual this pride and all year round, you should feel free to use those emoji however the hell you want. That's what I'm taking away from today.
JULIA: Remember, next time you're hanging out with the snow monkeys in the hot spring, remember, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
JULIA: Later, satyrs.
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