Episode 251: Advice from Folklore V (with Dr. Moiya McTier)
/Hold on a second, we’re channeling the gods to answer your questions about creativity, religion, bachelorette parties, body image and more. Don’t worry, your cool wine Aunt Inanna is here to help.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of human sacrifice, war, abusive relationships, death, dismemberment, murder, grief, religious experiences, body image issues, ableism, anxiety, and white supremacy.
Guest
Dr. Moiya McTier is a New York-based astrophysicist who studies planets outside of our solar system. She’s also a folklorist who specializes in using science and logic to build fictional worlds. You can hear all about the worlds she’s built on her podcast, Exolore, where she imagines, discusses, and reviews fictional worlds, often with expert guests. You can learn more about Moiya and her work on her website, moiyamctier.com.
Housekeeping
- Live Show: Join us October 27th at 8:00 EST for a LIVE virtual show! Get your tickets at spiritspodcast.com/live!
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends The Southern Book Club’s Guide to Slaying Vampires by Grady Hendrix.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out Exolore: Helping you imagine other worlds, but with facts and science! Every other week, astrophysicist/folklorist Moiya McTier explores fictional worlds by building them with a panel of expert guests, interviewing professional worldbuilders, or reviewing the merits of worlds that have already been built.
Sponsors
- Girlfriend Collective makes sustainable, ethically made activewear for everyone. Get $25 off your purchase of $100 or more when you go to girlfriend.com/spirits.
- She’s Birdie is a personal safety alarm. Get 15% off your first purchase at shesbirdie.com/spirits
- With HelloFresh, you get fresh, pre-measured ingredients and mouthwatering seasonal recipes delivered right to your door. Go to HelloFresh.com/spirits14 and use code spirits14 for up to 14 free meals, including free shipping!
Find Us Online
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests’ books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And this is Episode 251: Advice from Folklore, Number 5 with Dr. Moiya McTier.
JULIA: Back at it. Channeling the gods. Seeing what they have to say about love, and jobs, and creativity, and all those things.
AMANDA: There is so much vulnerability that you conspirators trust us with, and so much wisdom that the gods have to share. We love recording these episodes and we're so happy that you like them too.
JULIA: We do. We truly do. Such a blast.
AMANDA: And before we get into our normal housekeeping, we want to let you all know that we are doing a spooky Halloween live show. We cannot wait to do another Halloween weekend digital live show for everybody. No matter where you are in the world, whether you're going to join us live on October 27, 2021, at 8 PM Eastern Time or watch it afterward with the VOD, that video on demand, even if you want to buy a ticket and be like, "I'm not sure if I can get off work. I might have to watch it later." That's cool. Buy a ticket. You're gonna get the same link.
JULIA: Or maybe you come live and you're like, "Wow, it was a great live show. I want to watch it again, and again, and again. You can do that too.
AMANDA: One ticket, endless joy for you conspirators. Go to spiritspodcast.com/live to get your ticket and that'll let you attend live and watch the video on demand.
JULIA: It's so cool. Technology is amazing.
AMANDA: I can't wait to see what you have planned for us, Julia. Schneider and I are going to have the best time.
JULIA: Oh, yeah. You guys are gonna have a good time. We're gonna do some different things that we haven't done before on the show, and I think you guys are going to have a ball.
AMANDA: And if you wanna get into the spirit, you can also still buy the copy of last year's live show. You can skip the VOD, you can watch it and be like, "What am I going to get," and it's not gonna be the same but it'll get you in the mood you know?
JULIA: Mmh-hmm. Mmh-hmm. Perfect time for spooky season, both live shows.
AMANDA: So, that's October 27th, 2021, 8 PM Eastern at spiritspodcast.com/live or anytime with the VOD.
JULIA: Whoo.
AMANDA: So, to get back into the normal swing of things we have to of course thank our supporting-producer level patrons; Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Bryan, Debra, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jessica Stewart, Justin, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi. And the legend-level patrons; Audra, Clara, Drew, Jaybaybay, Ki, Lexus, Mary, Morgan, Morgan H., Mother of Vikings, Sarah, & Bea Me Up Scotty.
JULIA: They all felt a chill in the air recently Amanda, and realized it's spooky season.
AMANDA: That happened to me exactly over the weekend. How about you, Julia? How have you been enjoying the spooky weather, and have you been reading, watching, or listening to anything that you think the conspirators would enjoy?
JULIA: Oh yes, Amanda. I picked up a book recently called The Southern Book Club's Guide to Slaying Vampires by Grady Hendrix. And oh, boy. If you like the idea of 90s suburban housewives defending their children from a stranger. Basically, a stranger danger that turns out to be real and also a vampire, this is the book for you.
AMANDA: I'm just nodding over here because I co-signed everything. I love that recommendation.
JULIA: It's a very, very good book and was, like, the perfect transition to read in September going into October.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. And I took a nice little crisp morning bike ride, which I love and is rare for me because I'm a little bit nervous still about biking in the city. But when I get up early enough, you know, streets are empty, the sun is out, the breeze is crisp, slathered in suntan lotion as usual, and I was catching up on episodes of Exolore, which happens to be the Multitude show we're recommending this week but also hosted by Dr. Moiya McTier.
JULIA: Dr. Moiya, so smart, so intelligent. Just, astrophysicist and folklorist. The best of both worlds.
AMANDA: A killer combo and Exolore, if you don't know yet, is where Moiya explores fictional worlds by building them with a panel of expert guests. She interviews professional world builders, or reviews the merits of worlds that have already been built. So, if you've ever wondered what life would be like on a planet different from our own, or how writers come up with fictional worlds, this is the show for you.
JULIA: Yeah, so you can subscribe today by searching Exolore in your podcast app of choice or going to exolorepod.com. That's e x o l o r e pod.com.
AMANDA: Thanks as always to Moiya for joining us for the Advice from Folklore series. We hope you all enjoy this episode. So, without further ado enjoy Spirits Podcast, Episode 251: Advice from Folklore 5.
AMANDA: Moiya and Julia are really in sync this morning. Really, really into it. Got a drink in hand, got the gods waiting above us. Ever present, ready to help us with our life problems. Guys, who are we going to help today on Advice from Folklore?
JULIA: We're gonna have a bunch of people Amanda, as always.
DR. MOIYA: A bunch of people who have troubles that I also have. So, it's, it's good to channel the gods for these, these questions.
JULIA: Yeah, it's strange how the gods only answer questions that we have experienced or adviced on but, you know, it's good. That's why they talked to us.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, what a mighty coincidence.
AMANDA: During Zoom, Yan Kapur services a couple weeks ago. The, the rabbi that Eric and I were watching said, "You know, rabbis give the sermon they most want to hear." And I think that's true of advice columnists as well.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, absolutely.
JULIA: That's definitely a vibe.
AMANDA: So, let's get started. This comes from Failsafe on Insta and the question is, "I know I'm happier when not in a relationship, but I also feel lonely. Should I get used to being alone?"
DR. MOIYA: Failsafe, we got you. So, this is, is coming from as, as a surprise. You'll learn at the end who this is from.
AMANDA: Oh, Moiya! Introducing such new, new twists to our format. I love it!
DR. MOIYA: Well, I just, I want to see if you know, as I read this god or goddesses' response, if you can, like, pick up on some clues and figure out who it is by the end.
JULIA: That's the best way to do it.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, all right. So, this god or goddess says, "Dear Failsafe, I too am happier when I'm not in a relationship when I'm not tied down to one person in their place and their time. I relish in the freedom to roam as I want, see who I wish and do as I will. I cherish the silence and the calm of being alone, but that does not make me lonely. Far from it, for I have the best companions. The nymphs and maidens who hunt with me are excellent company and they aren't bad at tracking a wild boar either. The animals I protect let me know that I am needed and they bring me gifts and they talk to me in their own ways. And when my brother draws his chariot to a rest at the end of the sky, and most of the forest falls asleep, a million new friends wake up and I get to share the night with the moon and all of her stars. Loneliness is the sadness that you feel when you're utterly disconnected from the world. If a romantic connection doesn't nourish your spirit, then there are other kinds of tethers that will, and once you find them, choosing to be alone won't be the same as resigning yourself to being lonely. You're always welcome to join me on the hunt, Artemis."
JULIA: It's my girl.
AMANDA: It's Artemis!
DR. MOIYA: It’s our girl!
AMANDA: We just learned about her.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. So I actually just listened to the Artemis episode of Spirits last night, this story will probably be familiar if you have also listened to that episode. But this is a story that I hadn't heard about Artemis before. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna rehash it. Also, just like, a little bit of context, if you don't know because why would you if you haven't heard it before? Artemis is the Greek goddess of the hunt and the moon. I like to think that when she heard this question, she was like, “I'm the perfect person to answer this. Hold my bow.”
JULIA: Oh, for sure.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Pushes to the front, puts her drink aside. Oh, yeah. Real Artemis energy.
DR. MOIYA: Absolutely. Yeah, Artemis is the daughter of Zeus and Leto, who responded to a question a few Advice from Folklores ago. There are so many great Artemis stories, many of which Julia covered in that Artemis episode, but here is one of my new faves. So, I had heard about the godly shenanigans on the Trojan side of the Trojan War, where Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite competed for The Apple of Discord, but I didn't know that Artemis was riling things up over on the Greek side of the fight. Agamemnon, a Greek King and brother-in-law to Helen, you know the beautiful Helen. Agamemnon kills a deer, which is sacred to Artemis, and then adds literal insult to injury by bragging that he killed the deer better than Artemis could. It’s like, how?
JULIA: Bud.
AMANDA: Oh, never. Never.
JULIA: It's like you've never heard any other Greek story ever. What are you doing?
DR. MOIYA: Right? Like, you've never heard of the concept of hubris, and also were just so wrong. Like, what is going through a person's head when they think they can hunt better than the literal goddess of the hunt?
AMANDA: It's like going to your mother-in law's-house for a holiday and eating a dish and being like, "Not as good as the one I make." Like, literally what do you think is gonna happen when you say, "I did this better than Artemis."
DR. MOIYA: That is the perfect comparison, Amanda. So, Artemis obviously punishes Agamemnon by holding back the winds when his fleet tries to leave Greece and fight in the war. She says that she will only let them go if he sacrifices his daughter, Iphigenia. Agamemnon agrees because he has a war to get to, but Artemis switches Iphigenia for another deer at the last moment in the sacrifice. And Artemis whisks Iphigenia away from what is clearly a terrible home life with a father who would sacrifice his daughter for something as stupid as a war over a lover's squabble.
DR. MOIYA: And then, makes Iphigenia one of her priestesses In some versions of the story. And I really like this version, the one where Artemis tells Agamemnon he has to sacrifice his daughter and then, like, makes the switch because she's punishing Agamemnon which is good like, he deserves to be punished. But she's not punishing Iphigenia and it, it really just feels in line with Artemis' whole, you know? Like, protect the youths, protect the maidens vibe.
JULIA: Yeah. Just soon aside, before we get to the actual advice part of this segment, how fucked up is the Trojan War huh?
DR. MOIYA: [9:31] on all sides.
JULIA: I just forget sometimes how absolutely ridiculous the whole concept of the Trojan War is. And it goes for so long, and so many people die. And it is, like, the root source of so many great stories from Greek mythology, but it's so ridiculous how it started.
AMANDA: So true.
DR. MOIYA: I am partnered up. I have a relationship. I'm very happy in one but I have not always been. And when I was single, I would find those connections with my friends, or with pets when I would go back home, or with family. There are lots of other ways to have meaningful relationships with, with the world around you that don't rely on a romantic connection.
JULIA: Yeah, the problem here is all of us are in long-term relationships at this point. So, our advice for, like, being, like, alone is not super, I guess, relevant to us personally in this moment. But yeah, there are times where you don't feel an entire completion from the person who is your partner. And for a lot of people, like, just having a single romantic partner is not conducive to having a healthy relationship with everyone in your life. Like, that person is not always going to fulfill all of the things that you need in your life.
AMANDA: And before I was in my relationship, I made a very strong effort in my life. Like, my life project for that year was trying to kind of integrate more areas of my life and be more myself in all my spaces. So, that involved things like coming out, and finding volunteer groups, and inviting more of my friends to intermingle and inviting, you know, family and friends all to the same housewarming party, and things like that. And I think that Failsafe's final question of, "Should I get used to being alone?" I think Failsafe, maybe you need permission to seek all your kinds of fulfillment outside of a romantic relationship. I love and respect that you know, right now that you are happier being single in terms of, like, romantic love and you are not fundamentally missing out on any part of the human experience. You are not doomed to be lonely because this is not right for you, period or right for you right now. I think you have the things you need, which are, you know, the introspection and the self-knowledge that comes with knowing exactly what you need and don't need right now. And so, you know, I'm, we're saying all the things you probably already know, which is find ways to connect to others in your community, volunteer, you know, find your friends. If you are living outside your home of origin, maybe a good time to get to know any of the cousins or relatives or siblings that you only ever grew up being their relation and not necessarily choosing to be their friend, which is a lovely part of adulthood. If you're lucky enough to have relatives that you want to get to know better.
JULIA: Absolutely, being an adult and finding relationships with family members who I was like, you know, we saw them for holidays, but like, I actively text my cousins now and it was something that I didn't do when I was a teenager or in college or something like that. And we swap book recommendations and it's great. And I find that's, like, a very fulfilling relationship that I hadn't tapped into before. So, I absolutely agree, Amanda.
AMANDA: Yeah, I saw one of my cousin's recently and we're like, "Hey, how did our grandparents' particular storm of family issues affect your parents? And how is that manifesting itself in your life?" And it's like, "Wow, this is pretty amazing. That I had that opportunity to say to somebody, like, "How are you reflecting on your role as a daughter and now a parent compared to how your parent processed the things that her parent did to her?" I have a gigantic family and odds are some of them are pretty good and it's, it's nice to be able to do that. But whether or not it's with, you know, your blood relatives, or your family of origin, or it's, you know, finding places to volunteer, to sit, to go to readings at a coffee shop to, you know, find a faith community or volunteer community or a crafting circle. Like, all of these things, you know, you might hear us say and be like, "Oh, I don't know." Give it a try, and we know it's effort. We know it is work. We know it takes real concentrated effort and you might not strike it right away. But Failsafe, you are not used to being alone. You are not doomed to being alone. And you are going to find so much companionship being a solo person in this world surrounded and connected by a community.
JULIA: Absolutely. Oh, my gosh, yes. Create that found family, create that circle of friends, create a community that is going to support you. Also, as a side note, aromantic is a totally valid, like, way of going through life. And if you'd find that you don't want a romantic partner, that's totally okay. I just want to give you that validation right now, Failsafe. I just want to do that for you.
AMANDA: If that's an identity and community that resonates with you, you might find it really, really useful to connect with others who have gone through these very, very same questions.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: And if not, rock on. We believe in you. Artemis believes in you.
JULIA: Whoo.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. Nice.
AMANDA: Well, guys I got a question coming in hot from Sridhar on Instagram. "Writing, especially poetry used to be a big part of my life and personality, but I have nothing to say anymore. Do I have to work to get it back? Or is it okay to let go of my artistic side?" Man, really hitting home Sridhar, come on.
JULIA: Oh, yeah. Just the phrase, "I have nothing to say anymore." I got this. Dear Sridhar. when they tell stories of me they tell tales of my music, my poetry, my ability to charm all things, and even make the stones weep with my art. My song saved lives, tuned out siren song, and most importantly, won me the favor of my wife. But when I lost her not once, but twice, it was like losing my muse. I was distraught, and music did not bring me the pleasure that it once did. Each note that I played reminded me of the life that I once had, and it only made me spiral further and further into my despair, that music, the only music I could play did not bring me joy, nor did it bring joy to those around me the way that it once did. All those around me expected me to keep singing to bring them the joy that I once did. But perhaps in those moments, it would have been better for me not to sing. If the only songs that came to my lips were ones that brought misery. It is not an easy decision to become more than what others expect of you. But I wish I had had the chance to change my legacy to something that wasn't just my song and my loss. You have that opportunity. You can change your life the way that my music could change the course of the rivers and the heart of the king of the underworld. I wish that for you. And I do not begrudge you the moments where poetry may come back to you if it does return. Yours, Orpheus. I think most of us know the Orpheus story by now, but if not, I can remind you.
AMANDA: Oh, Julia, can I, can I take a swing at this one?
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Oh.
AMANDA: La la la la la la la.
JULIA: It's a good Hades genre reference, and I appreciate it, Amanda.
AMANDA: Thank you. Thank you.
JULIA: Best known Greek musician in Greek mythology, his mother was one of the Muses and his father was a Thracian Prince. Edith Hamilton also called the Thracians, the most musical of the peoples of Greece which shout out, Edith Hamilton. Very good, love that. So, Orpheus for a musician went through a lot of kind of really dangerous journeys, including sailing with Jason and the Argonauts. He would, like, inspire them when they got tired of rowing to, like, pick up their oars and keep going. And he even saved everyone from the sirens call by playing a song that was even more beautiful and alluring, but he is probably most well-known for the story of his wife, Euridice. Who he attempted to save from the underworld after she died. And when that failed, he became distraught and wandered around Greece with only his music to keep him company. Now, usually the story we kind of know ends with just, like, Orpheus failed. Aw, big sigh, that's fine.
DR. MOIYA: Big sigh. He had one job.
JULIA: He had one job. Don't turn around, bud. But the story actually ends because it was said that Orpheus was killed by the maenads who are the female followers of Dionysus. And so, the female followers of Dionysus were kind of known to sometimes get into these static frenzies. They would dance. They would get drunk. And then, there is also more than one story where in their frenzy, they just ripped a man apart.
AMANDA: Mood.
JULIA: So, that's what happened to Orpheus. He was torn limb-from-limb. His head was tossed in a river where it was said that it continued to sing its mournful song until it reached the sea. And so, I felt like Orpheus was a good person to come to for this advice because Orpheus is so well-known for being, like, I lost the love of my life. My song was able to do one thing but I wasn't able to follow through with that thing. And I feel like this question-asker really could use the perspective of someone who was only defined by their music. And so, this is an opportunity for them to grow and to become something else. And for me, personally, I have ADHD like I've talked about on the show before, and one of the biggest things for me that I get frustrated about is I will look to my past and mourn the person that I was before because I go through cycles of interests and then I'll be like, "Oh, man. Remember when I was, like, really into wrestling?" I'm still kind of into wrestling but, like, remember when I, like, went to class every single week and I, like, learned how to wrestle, that was great. What happened to me? And I completely understand the idea of, like, looking to your past and mourning your past self and now looking to the future and being like, "Well, do I give this up because I've just lost interest in it." And that's okay, it's okay to lose interest in things that you loved in the past. Even if people look at you and are like, "Oh, you're the poet person." You're like, "I don't do that anymore."
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, big ups to that. It's okay to change. We are constantly in flux. We are iterating on ourselves all the time, and when you look back and it seems really different from how you are now, like, that's fine. Everyone goes through that. I will say because I dabble in some writing, and I have often had times when I feel like I don't have any more words to say, and I feel like the creative part of me is just gone. Often, what it takes to get it back is not working to get it back, but it is like you say Sridhar just letting it go. And then, once you do that, you'll find in the most unexpected moments that you do have something to say, and as long as you're open to that feeling, then it can come to you if that's something you want.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: I totally agree, guys. I don't have much to add, I think you really hit the nail on the head here. So often, when we find ourselves asking the question, "Is it okay to let it go?" You know what the answer is, and you, and you just need someone to give you that permission. So, Sridhar here is your permission. You have permission to let it go.
JULIA: Yeah, and you have permission to come back to it if you want to.
DR. MOIYA: Yes.
JULIA: No one is saying now that you've disavowed poetry you can never come back to it again.
DR. MOIYA: It's a forgiving muse
AMANDA: You are so much more than your output and you are so much more than your interests.
DR. MOIYA: That's true.
AMANDA: And I think you get to do the very exciting thing now of taking yourself on lots of hobby dates and trying, reading a comic book, watching a TV show, cooking a recipe, going for a walk, trying to identify a mushroom or tree, volunteer to [16:20] or you know. And, and see what speaks to the you that you are now.
JULIA: I love the phrase hobby date.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
JULIA: That's so fun.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. I love it.
AMANDA: Thank you. Julia, I mean, you, you describing the, the past you. I mean, it sounds like you're in company of a lot of people with really fascinating interests and experiences. And just because you aren't each of them at the same time doesn't mean you don't get to benefit from their stories, you know.
JULIA: Thank you. I appreciate that.
AMANDA: Well, while we're in the groove guys, let's move on to Regina who says, "Hello deities, spirits, and Dr. Moiya. I am currently struggling with being a Christian but also being interested in witchcraft and worshipping other gods like Greek gods. I feel that it would be disrespectful to do both, and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Regina."
DR. MOIYA: Yes, we have some, some words for you, Regina. Dearest, Regina. The gods are too full of themselves to tell you it's okay to worship someone else but I'll tell you like it is. Go for it.
JULIA: Wooh.
DR. MOIYA: The gods and forces that you believe in should want what's best for you, and you're better off choosing the parts of each religion that work for you. Trust me, I know a thing or two about mixing and matching. The other animals make fun of me because the gods, like, made me out of their leftover scraps or whatever. But I say the gods just saved the best for last. I get the best of all those animals' worlds. This dope elephant trunk makes the loudest trumpet sound. And you would not believe the impact I can have when my Cheetah legs get my bare body moving at top speed. Sure, my Rhino eyes don't see that clearly, but good eyesight just isn't necessary in my line of work. It's all vibes, you know? But back to you Regina because I want to squash this worry of yours. It's not disrespectful to hold multiple faiths. If anything, the gods and practices you do choose should be mad honored that you included them on your frankly, pretty shortlist. You do you boo. Desperately yours, Baku.
AMANDA: What a sign off.
DR. MOIYA: So, the Baku are creatures from Japanese mythology with the trunk of an Elephant, the eyes of a Rhino, the body of a Bear, the feet of a Cheetah, and the tail of an Ox. I found this amazing Wikipedia page that has all of the different mythological creatures from mythologies around the world, and it has them based on how many different animal parts they have. So, I--
AMANDA: Oh, geez.
DR. MOIYA: --just scrolled to the one that had the most.
AMANDA: Scroll to bottom.
DR. MOIYA: Yes.
AMANDA: There's Baku.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, there's the Baku with five different animals. And the Baku are creatures, and this particular Baku who answered your call, Regina, is apparently a hip teenager from the early 2000s.
JULIA: It checks out.
AMANDA: Love it. Love it.
JULIA: He ate a lot of dreams of boy bands and, like, wanting to be Britney Spears.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, that checks. Legend has it that when the gods were done making all of the other animals, they combined the leftover odds and ends to make the Baku. And the Baku are said to eat nightmares. So, Japanese children might call out for one if they wake up from a bad dream in the middle of the night, but they do have to be careful because if they call on the Baku and the Baku isn't satisfied with the nightmare, like, it doesn't feel like it was enough of a meal, it might also eat your hopes and good dreams. And so, you don't want that. So, just use some, some caution.
JULIA: Mmh-hmm.
DR. MOIYA: My personal take on the purpose of religion and spiritual practice is that they're there to help us find our own inner peace. And we're all unique people with our own needs and our own paths to enlightenment whatever that means to you. So, it only makes sense to me that many of us would need to pick and choose an equally unique group of guides to get us there. I've gone through my own journey. One side of my family is very religious in, like, Southern Black Christian type of way and I rejected that early on and then went through a process of, like, learning about the Greek gods, and learning about Wicca. And I took different parts from each of those that made me feel better about myself and closer to my own enlightenment. And Regina, I think that you should absolutely do the same.
JULIA: I 100% agree. I find that religion is an extremely personal experience. You use what works for you. You use the things that bring you closer to whatever it is that makes you feel more connected with a higher power. And for some people, it is very clearly following a certain, like, dedicated path like the Bible or what have you. For other people, it is picking and choosing what works best for them and I find that I'm not gonna say like, one group of people is happier than the other or something like that. But when you are dictating your own religious practices, I find that I am happiest in that position.
AMANDA: Even and especially if it brings you back to the faith you were raised in. And you, you know, affirm that for yourself. And I think it's gonna be so useful to you here to read really widely and read different people's experiences of faith. Finding it, rejecting it, choosing a new one for themselves, feeling chosen by a faith. And you don't have to read these as a manual, you can read them like you would page through, you know, a magazine or a cookbook to kind of browse for inspiration and understand how other people coming into their own, whether that inspires you directly or not, I think hearing somebody else or multiple someone else's think, and write, and talk with confidence and maybe with questioning and maybe with regret in some cases, about the journey that they take. And took may make you feel more like some companionship and less alone in the fact that you are kind of casting about a little bit right now.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: And I know that it can be a little scary to kind of pick and choose and have your religious practice be so personalized because I know that a lot of people also go to religion for the community aspect. But like Amanda said, if you are reading other people's experiences and stuff like that, you'll find that maybe someone went through something similar to what you're going through and, or you'll find a practice that you didn't think to look into and now you're looking into it. So, I definitely think that reading widely in, with an open mind is the, the best course of action.
AMANDA: Yeah, and similar to Failsafe, you know, if right now, feeling a bit disconnected from a community that you were raised in. If it would make you feel good to reconnect a little more with a, you know, neighborhood mutual aid group or any other aspect of your identity whether it's, you know, geography, ethnicity, gender sexuality, or just, you know, just your friends. And spend more time with your friends and, and see spending time with people who get you as a spiritual practice. I think it'll help you very much to kind of lean on those support networks a little bit right now, as you're figuring out and working through and kind of coming to terms with uncertainty in such a big aspect of anyone's life.
DR. MOIYA: Mmh-hmm. Yeah, community time, time spent with people that you care about and have shared interests with, that is a big part of a lot of different religions. And so, searching for the community that makes you feel safest and most comfortable that doesn't go against Christianity if you're worried about that.
JULIA: Also it's not anyone's business what your religious beliefs are. So, just as a, as a reminder if you decide, "Oh, I want to get more in touch with my, my Christian roots and my Christian beliefs." You don't have to tell people, you know, like, "Hey. I'm also looking into, you know, pagan stuff."
AMANDA: And vice versa.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: It's all you, it's uniquely you.
DR. MOIYA: It's between you and whatever gods or goddesses you choose to follow.
JULIA: Hell yeah.
AMANDA: Well, guys, I've been picturing Artemis just kind of riding through the forest with, like, a gem and crusted goblet filled with go juice for a while. So, let's, let's go grab a refill, shall we?
JULIA: Yes, please.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, let's do it.
JULIA: Amanda, there is nothing like being able to go outside for a nice hike or maybe a jog or something like that, and feeling genuinely very comfortable and confident clothes that you're wearing at the time. And ever since I got this real cute skort from the Girlfriend Collective. I feel so comfortable going on walks both, like, because the temperature is perfect and also if it's breezy out because the fall is a little breezy here in New York, I don't feel like I'm gonna flash the world my butt.
AMANDA: A skort is like the 90s answer to a jumper.
JULIA: Truly, they are. And all of the options at Girlfriend Collective are incredibly cute, incredibly comfortable, but also sustainable and ethically made activewear for everyone. They make cute and comfortable bras, leggings, shorts, tanks, tees, swimsuits, and more. And their sizing is inclusive. It ranges from extra, extra small all the way to six XL. So, whether you are working out or running errands or doing nothing at all, Girlfriend Collective has functional fabrics, colors, and styles for any activity. And they also have a garment take-back program called the Re-Girlfriend. So, once you're done loving your pieces and, you know, for a long time because they're quality products and they're not going to break down on you. You can send them back to be upcycled into new girlfriend gear. So, you can join the collective today. For listeners of our show, the Girlfriend Collective is offering $25 off your purchase of $100 or more when you go to girlfriend.com/spirits. That's $25 off $100 or more when you go to girlfriend.com/spirits, girlfriend.com/spirits. I can't believe they still got girlfriend.com. Incredible.
AMANDA: I know, so good. Now, Julia, I know that you love the summer, and sometimes when summer begins you're like, "Oh, holy shit. Like, I got to get all my summer activities in. Like, I can't believe it." That's how I feel about fall and there is a limited amount of time where I can do my apple picking, pumpkin picking, morning bike rides when it's still cool outside. Whatever it is that I want to do. Leaf peeping got to peep the leaves. A different region every weekend, and I'm busy in the fall. So, I appreciate that HelloFresh is something that I can use to save time that I otherwise spend at meal planning shopping, and chopping. So, I can get back to doing what matters aka, apple picking. That's all I want to do, ever.
JULIA: I get it.
AMANDA: And HelloFresh is leaning into fall as well because they have seasonal recipes like pumpkin cinnamon rolls, and friends giving ready sides. As well as fresh high-quality ingredients that travel from the farm to your front door in less than a week, which I absolutely love. I made the pumpkin cinnamon rolls and brought them out to an outdoor beer garden friend, Teng. And I got to tell you that they went down very well with some Oktoberfest beers.
JULIA: Oh, I can only imagine.
AMANDA: So, go to hellofresh.com/spirits14 and use the code spirits14 for up to 14 free meals including free shipping. Go to hellofresh.com/spirits14 and use code spirits14, for up to 14 free meals including free shipping.
JULIA: And finally, Amanda, I find that fall in the transition into a new season tends to be like, I gotta go out. I gotta be in my neighborhood. I got to be running errands. I got to, like, go do things with people because that transition time is just so, so nice. But sometimes, you know, I'm also a little anxious because the changing of seasons also brings anxiety. So, I want to know that I can go out and have peace of mind. And that is when I clip my Birdie to my bag and I go out and I feel comfortable and safe, and Birdie is a personal safety alarm designed to be easy to carry, simple to use. You can activate it with a quick pull. An alarm emits so that everyone in the area knows what's happening. And unlike pepper spray or other deterrents, it has no danger to use, so you can feel confident to use it without worrying about it. So, right now She's Birdie is offering our listeners 15% off your first purchase when you go to shesbirdie.com/spirits. Go to She's Birdie spelled s h e s b i r d i e.com/spirits to get 15% off your first purchase. That's shesbirdie.com/spirits.
AMANDA: And now, let's get back to the show. Guys, I really want to tell you about a new genre of drink I've been trying at home.
JULIA: Tell me.
DR. MOIYA: Ooh.
AMANDA: So, this is all about, you know, borrowing from things that make you happy. Making it in your own home, you know, like, like taking what you wish and, and making a place for it. In my case, that's a beer shot combo, and there is a great bar in Ridgewood Queens that I love that does a beer shot combo called A Smoky Boy and it's a lovely Mexican ale and a shot of Mezcal. And guys I gotta tell you, nothing like it.
JULIA: That sounds dope.
AMANDA: Thank you. I have in fact at homemade myself a home beer shot combo. Feels indulgent, feels perfect. A Smoky Boy got to recommend it.
JULIA: Well, that's Smoky boy.
AMANDA: Smoky Boy.
JULIA: Moiya, how about you, what have you been drinking at home lately?
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, well it is September which is the beginning of, Spooky Season.
AMANDA: Can you feel our power coming back? Can you, can you feel us being closer to the god? I can.
JULIA: Mmh-hmm. Mmh-gmm.
DR. MOIYA: Absolutely, just being rejuvenated by losing the amount of direct sunlight as our planet turns away from the sun. It's great.
JULIA: Oops, oh.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
DR. MOIYA: When spooky season comes around and the temperatures drop a little, I love a nice mulled wine. So, I've been using mulling spices from Penzeys and, you know, like you put it on the stovetop with some wine and, and I, I am a big fan.
JULIA: And your apartment smells amazing after that, too. I can imagine.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, and I'm not picky about the, the type of wine I use. It's really, like, the process and the smell and the ritual for me.
JULIA: Hell yeah, that's incredible. I love that.
DR. MOIYA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: I was recently visiting my mother-in-law and she took us to this antique store and I found this adorable one face, happy face, one face mad face Tiki glass. And ever since then, Jake and I have just been in, just pounding my ties. Just pound there goes my ties. Because he was like, "Well if you're got a Tiki glass, we should be making Tiki drinks."
AMANDA: Cute.
JULIA: And I hit up a friend of the show, Brandon Grugle, who I also know is a fantastic Tiki cocktail person. And we've been swapping ideas as to, as to what to make and, like, what rums to buy and, Oh god. It's so much fun.
AMANDA: Can we get a photo of that for the Insta?
JULIA: Oh, my gosh, yes, yes. I have, I have my two glasses. One is, again, one that I saved from an antique store from the original Jacqueline Hyde club that I found somewhere on Long Island. And then, this other one I got from Delaware, which I think might be from Disney World, but I'm not sure, but I love it.
AMANDA: Incredible, with our drinks in hand and a smoky boy in my tummy. Let's turn to a question from Tinker Beastie. I reconnected with an old friend at the beginning of the year after over a decade of not talking, a few weeks ago we got into a big disagreement. After a week of back and forth, we still couldn't agree and decided to take a cooldown and just try to get back to normal. Everything feels forced now though, and it's clear we're both still upset. How do I fix my friendship when we disagree so strongly? Good question.
DR. MOIYA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: I'm channeling here, one moment, please. Relationships are doors to be opened for those you wish to welcome in and to close against those you must keep out. Take a moment and consider this relationship, a set of ornate doors, carved and towering. In days long gone, the two of us stood at these doors to bar those who meant our Emperor harm and we succeeded so much so that it was decreed that we would adorn every important door. Protecting all within from what might do them harm and welcoming all who meant well. So, we stand at the doorway of this relationship at this moment, and to tell you frankly, this door was once close to this old friend. You have been brave to take steps beyond it, to open it again, and be willing to open yourself to the potential for pain but remember to ask yourself why it was closed to begin with and consider this as well. The world on the other side of that closed door may have changed in the years since it was last opened. Some doors should be opened with vigor and visitors welcome. For others, there's nothing wrong with allowing them to remain shut. We would be terrible guards if we told you otherwise. At your gates, the mén-shén. So, Mén shén are protective doorway deities in Chinese culture. The first Mén shén were a pair of generals who were tasked with protecting the Jade Emperor from the spirit of the Dragon King. After he tricked the Dragon King, after he lost a bet with him. Classic. So, the Dragon King would come to the Jade Emperor every night haunting him so that he couldn't sleep. So, two generals volunteered to guard his door so that the Emperor could sleep even though it meant that they themselves could not. So, the Jade Emperor felt a lot of guilt that his trusted generals couldn't sleep and so he commanded the greatest artists in the land to come and paint the images of his generals on his doors. And their paintings were so skillful that it fooled the spirit of the Dragon King and all we're able to sleep undisturbed.
DR. MOIYA: Yes.
AMANDA: I love that. What a hack.
JULIA: What a hack. Just paint it so good that the dragon, he don't know.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: So, placing Mén shén in doors is still a fairly common practice in China. And they remain important because it's understood that doorways and gates are this liminal space that needs to be protected. So, they're there to ward off evil as well as encourage good fortune to enter through the gate. I also think that they're a very important part of Feng Shui, but I didn't look a lot into that. It's just always important that they're always facing each other on the doors.
DR. MOIYA: Are these like physical statues of the Mén shén?
JULIA: They're usually painted, like, you can buy, like, mass produced ones that you can, like, paste on your doorways.
DR. MOIYA: Ooh.
JULIA: But like more formal and traditional buildings will have them carved or painted in the doors.
DR. MOIYA: God, I love that they are facing the same way because then they just have a greater field of vision.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: You can see behind, the one if they're both facing--
JULIA: That's smart.
DR. MOIYA: --like in the same direction. Like, parallel to each other, then they can't see behind them and, you know, they're gonna get snuck up on.
JULIA: You're watching your other guys back.
DR. MOIYA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: I like that.
DR. MOIYA: It's good teamwork.
JULIA: And also, admiring your, your friend. You're like, "Hey, you're doing a great job, bud. That's behind you right now." So, I think that the advice that the Mén shén had here is, is very valid. Sometimes you try to reconnect with people from your past and you're like, "Hey, I remember all the good times we had. I don't know what happened but I want to reconnect, but, you know, it seems like this relationship has been not-a-relationship for several years and a lot can change. People can grow and grow separately when it comes to friendship." And so, if you're facing someone who you have a fundamental disagreement with and you cannot meet in the middle and it is ruining this, this relationship, then maybe it's time to, like, admit to yourself, this isn't working.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, if you have to compromise really important parts of yourself to have a relationship with another person, I don't think that's fair to you. But if it is something that isn't a core part of your identity, if it's something that you don't have to bring up, every time you're together, maybe that is something that you can, for lack of a better phrase, kind of sweep under the rug in your friendship, under the, the doormat in this relationship and, and go forward that way.
AMANDA: Absolutely. And I think that the writer Jenée Desmond-Harris says this, I think I'm, I'm paraphrasing her, but sometimes you need a kind of like one final frank discussion. And it depends, I don't think you owe this to your friend and it certainly can be a lot of effort, but if you would feel better in saying like, "Listen, I am feeling this way. I really wanted to try. I just want to give us one more opportunity to say, you know, what do we think is at play here? What do we think is in the way? Is there a path forward? And though, at least for me, I'm kind of more haunted by the things I could have done. And so, for me, knowing that I did all I can or tried all I could even if the result is disappointing to me, I know myself well enough to say like, that will be preferable to me than to kind of walk away with some kind of doubt. So, something to keep in mind that this is a tough situation, and I'm feeling for you."
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: I have a lot of respect for you for opening up that door and facing this conflict and what seems like a really mature way, Tinker Beastie, by the way. Like, to have that conversation and agree amongst yourselves to take some time to cool off. That's really mature.
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, there's plenty of people that I see on social media that I'm like, "I haven't talked to you in several years, it would probably be nice to talk to you again, but I'm terrible at reaching out about these kinds of things." So, I, I would never have made the effort to, to do something like that. So, props to you.
AMANDA: Absolutely. And deciding a break for now, or some space is not a lifetime sentence. So, if it occurs to you one day, or feels right to, to move on, you can totally do it. But if space is what you need right now and letting the thing that isn't working go, then you have our love and support.
JULIA: Yes, and the Men shen. They got your back.
DR. MOIYA: And each other's. Yes.
AMANDA: Aw. All right, this one comes from Julia on Instagram. I'm curious what the gods have to say about overcoming body image issues.
DR. MOIYA: Yes, those old things.
AMANDA: Why these flesh prisons guys? Why these flesh prisons?
DR. MOIYA: These stupid human suits.
JULIA: They make no sense.
DR. MOIYA: Mmh-hmm. All right, hopefully, Julia, this will help and all the other people out there who have body image issues. "My sweet child. What does your body have to do with its image? Our bodies aren't for looking at they're for doing things. When I fight alongside my believers on the battlefield, it's my body. The muscles in my arms and the fire in my gut that protects me. It's not my looks. I create life with my body. I comfort others with my touch and I make my mark on the world in this physical form that feels like home. Your body is a beautiful machine that tells you when it's hungry or sleepy. It gives you a voice to sing, or eyes to read, or thumbs to play those games that so many of you are fond of these days. As long as your body does what it needs to do, what you need it to do, what do looks matter? And when you're lucky enough to reach the age where your body has changed so much that you wouldn't even recognize it yourself, looks can't be compared to the value of a life's worth of wisdom. With love, Nane. Nane is the Armenian goddess of motherhood, war, and wisdom. She is closely associated with the goddess Anahit, who was widely worshipped in Armenia by the fifth century BCE. That's before common era. And Nane's temple was sacked and destroyed around 300 AD when Christianity was made Armenia's official state religion. Nane herself was usually depicted as a young woman in warriors clothing. With a spear in one hand, and a shield in the other. Such a badass.
JULIA: Mmh-hmm.
AMANDA: I know.
DR. MOIYA: Because Nane was the goddess of wisdom, in addition to motherhood and war, the oldest woman in the family was often considered almost like a representation of Nane.
JULIA: Yes.
DR. MOIYA: So, the oldest woman in the ruling dynasty was considered the epitome of Nane. And it was common practice for Kings to consult this oldest woman in their family before making important decisions, especially decisions that were about war.
JULIA: Excellent. Love that for Nane. Love that for everyone.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Personally, like about body image stuff, I have struggled with this for a very long time. So, I'm with you, Julia. And I, I'm sorry. Something that has really helped me recently is, there's this Instagram account Beauty Redefined. It's run by two doctors, they have PhDs. They're twins actually, and they talk about body image and how our bodies are tools. They're, they aren't ornaments. They just came out with a book. I think it's called More Than a Body. I would recommend that, that's helped me a lot to just, you know, when I am in one of those body image spirals where I, I hate what I see when I look in the mirror. I remind myself of all of the things, the activities that I do with my body. You know, my body carries me around. It lets me walk everywhere. My body gives me a tool to connect with the people I love the most. Think about the things that your body can do for you instead of how it looks.
JULIA: Absolutely. I do want to note because, like, obviously, there are people who, their bodies sometimes--
DR. MOIYA: Yes.
JULIA: --work against them in, in life in general and it's important to, like, acknowledge that. But your body can still do things even if it's not, you know, for instance carrying you, you know, across the room or something like that.
DR. MOIYA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: Your body does allow you to taste wonderful foods or like you said, to, to read a book or listen to music, or to comfort someone when they need comforting, and I think that's really important that, like, even if your body isn't always the most reliable tool, it is still something that allows you to experience life and that's important.
AMANDA: Yeah, I mean there's so much ableism and white supremacy in the ideas that we are raised in, you know, US society to idealize and the bodies that we think are permissible, allowed beautiful, worthy, and so much capitalism. And well, you know, if my body can't produce and if it can't be productive, then, you know, what does that say about me? And I think it's important for all of us to, you know, to face and start unlearning and working against these ideas and systems. And a really good place to do so is to start reading things by Disability Justice Advocates like the Disability Visibility Project which is fantastic. I love all the work by Imani Barbarin whose username is crutches and spice with underscores on social. And I think both of those projects, both Imani's work and Disability Visibility will be great guides into you reading more about, "Hey, why do we have all these fucked up ideas in our heads and how do they harm not just me in my self-image but lots of people all around us every day?" And in reading about it, you might get angry and that anger is great and can motivate you to try and seek justice for yourself and others. So, I think that that is a really great kind of rabbit hole to begin going down. And I also want to say too as, you know, somebody who has always been bigger and did not embrace the word fat until my middle and high school years. I think that body positivity is a tall order, and body neutrality is also okay. And if what you're aiming for is to look at yourself in the mirror and like Moiya and Nane are suggesting, you know, to think about what you can do to, you know, practice like touching your toes, or stretching, or feeling each of your fingertips and putting your fingers out in front of you and just pretending you're a cat and, like, stretching your paws. Like, whatever, whatever makes you feel like, "Okay. I am, I am feeling neutral in my body," and, you know, that is a pretty big win. There's a lot of, you know, discourse around self-love that I think can feel like a lot of pressure for those of us who have a lot of distance to go to get there. So, this is, you know, hopefully a journey that you will feel yourself on the other side of one day. And I think that beginning with, you know, reading, with surrounding yourself, and your social media feeds with bodies that are all shapes, colors, sizes, a levels of ability, and realizing and learning from others that all these bodies are particularly beautiful is a very, very good starting point.
JULIA: Heck yeah, Amanda. Coming in with the perspective and the resources. I love it.
DR. MOIYA: Every time.
JULIA: Every time.
DR. MOIYA: Just like a fountain of good things to say.
AMANDA: It's been a big journey. Listen, guys, if, if you told me at 14 that one day I would wake up most mornings and not really think about how my body looks, I would be like, "Impossible." And it's been a long time coming to get here but I, I know it's possible.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, absolutely. It is.
JULIA: I love it.
AMANDA: Let's finish up with a question from Olivia who says, "I'm attending my own bachelorette party soon, and I'm already feeling anxious. Advice to halt anxiety."
DR. MOIYA: Whoo.
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: If only. if only Olivia, please somebody channel a god. I also need some advice to halt anxiety.
JULIA: “Child, where do your anxieties lie? Is it to be the center of attention to be celebrated, to be known? Understandable. There are few moments in life where it is just about us. Often, we are unaccustomed to it and feel self-conscious to have all eyes on us, but this is a moment where you are being surrounded by people who love you, who are happy for you, and who are there to celebrate your love. That's not so bad is it? To love and be loved. As an aside to those celebrating, you should know how you want to celebrate.”
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: “True friends. Good friends will make sure your happiness comes first in this moment. Or perhaps it is the final night single. Darling, I cannot speak to your relationship to the person that you are choosing to spend your life with, but a single night, a single celebration should not rock you in a way that will shake you to your very core. What is the phrase that the mortals use? Cold feet? Ask if this night is the one that might be raising any questions that you might have, why that is? This is just a night of transition, of change. And change is not always scary is it? Your life changed for the better when you met your partner, did it not? Let this night be a night of celebration and do not fret. It will be the beginning of something beautiful. Much love Inanna.”
AMANDA: Man, always comes back to Inanna. I love her.
JULIA: And we've talked about Inanna on the show before, but she always seems like the right person to answer questions like these, because not only she the Mesopotamian god of, like, love, and beauty, and sex, and justice. She's just covering all the bases, but she also just has, like, big mom energy. Even though she's very rarely attributed to, like, having any children. It's probably because she's known as the Queen of Heaven, which makes her feel kinda like a cool aunt that keeps it real with you.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, listen kid, if you get drunk at a party, give me a call.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: I'll take you home, no questions asked.
JULIA: And she's definitely drunk and being like, "Darling, listen to me."
AMANDA: I have condoms and I will give them to you if you need it.
JULIA: Also, part of what I like about Inanna to answer this question is that her worshipers, particularly her priests and her priestesses, would often, like, [48:22] or go against traditional gender binary. And what is a bachelor party but kind of a weird gendered party? At least, traditionally. I know a lot of people are getting away from that in recent years. So, if that is also something that is worrying you listener, I feel that and I understand, but a lot of people are, are going away from that. There's very little like, "Oh, we got straws with penises on them anymore." So that's good, I guess. I know that's a certain type of person but not everyone has to have that.
DR. MOIYA: I really liked what Inanna said where she asked, "Where do your anxieties lie?"
AMANDA: Me too.
DR. MOIYA: I think that's the most important question to ask--
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: --when you're feeling anxiety. Like, what is causing it? And it's not easy to figure out what's causing it but once you can, at least in my experience, I've found that I realize it's actually something very small or something that is in my control. It's just that my brain has evolved to detect these dangers and freak out about them in a way that makes it hard for me to do the logic of realizing that it's small and easily taken care of. So, so, once you can find the source that goes a big way. A long way.
JULIA: Mmh-hmm.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. I mean, so often, you know, anxiety is for me a lack of control. And its particularly kind of worrying or ruminating it's like undirected energy, because there's a thing that I know is going to happen or that I worry might happen and I feel as if it is inevitable and there's nothing I can do to stop it or control it or kind of lessen the impact that it might have if it happens. And so, if it's something Olivia along the lines of, Oh, wow, you know, like to an honest point. Like, are the people planning this, are the people I'm doing this with, do they know me and how I like to celebrate. For Julia's bachelorette's party, we went upstate to a spa, went out precisely once and hung out inside with blankets by fire most of the time. And I think that was pretty good for you, Julia.
JULIA: It was exactly what I wanted.
AMANDA: And so, I'm glad that you had the presence of mind to say in advance, "Hey, this is the kind of thing that I am looking for." And all of us were like, "Excellent, us too."
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: So, Olivia that may be a good starting point, but you also, you know, again for all of the kind of like wedding industrial complex things that are happening right now, you also can use that to your advantage in that you can say, "I am Queen for this day and we are going home from the bar," you know?
JULIA: Or I am done with this no more.
AMANDA: Exactly. No more please. Like, pretend you are a baby King and say like, "None of that," and you know, send the, the bottle service or the, you know, the dancer. Whatever it might be if this is a, you know, a bachelorette party in the Hollywood style. And you know, again, it's just, it's so useful Julia that you kind of bring up this idea of, is it worries, about the whole process, about life changes, about being the center of attention, all that kind of stuff. Whatever it is Olivia, you are valid. We understand it, and hopefully you have the ability to Moiya's point, to make yourself a little backup plan, or to have a conversation with your partner, or to do some journaling and say, you know, "It's one night and afterward, you know, it can be whatever I want it to be, and it can be whatever I want it to be, and my life is gonna be the same the next day."
JULIA: Yeah, I personally didn't have any anxieties about my bachelorette party, because Amanda planned it was very lowkey and I loved every second of it. I did have a lot of anxiety going into my bridal shower, though. Like you said Moiya, I was trying to kind of investigate why that was and I was talking to my therapist about it. And I was just like, "I just don't want to be the center of attention. I don't want everyone, like, looking at me. And I have to open presents and everyone and, like, react in a way that, like, everyone is pleased for. And basically, put on a performance for a day that is supposed to be about me, but it's really about everyone else at that party. That stressed me out, but understanding that that was what the stress was and just being able to swallow that and know that, like, people at that party were going to be looking out for me. Like my bridesmaids, and my maid of honor was very helpful in that sense.
AMANDA: Yeah, and we gotta say, "Hey, if you have an emergency, let's go out and walk the neighbor's dog. Hey, let's, let's make sure we're here for each other and we have little signals and we can, you know, get together early and hang up the paper lanterns. And take a little walk on the pier and be there to celebrate and support you." There's lots of parts of engagement, and wedding, and family rituals, that are about not you, and not the couple. And not particularly what you guys would find useful, but a thing that is symbolic for everybody tangentially related to the event.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: So, as long as you have that core of support, whether it comes from, you know, friends, family, yourself, your support networks, you can realize that the things that hopefully are making you feel the most pressured or anxious are the result of somebody else trying to realize a dream for you, or help you mark a milestone in a way that they would find useful. Not ideal because it should be about the way that you find it most useful and meaningful. But sometimes understanding the source of those pressures can help you deal with them a little bit better. So, if that's useful, go for it, and if not chuck it away.
JULIA: Yeah, chuck it away. It's gonna be great. You're gonna have a great night. If you don't have a great night, you still have a great wedding to look forward to so everything will be fine. It's all good.
AMANDA: Everything will be fine. Listen to Spirits. Listen to the gods. If you need to go take a break in the bathroom and check Instagram, or play Sudoku.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Feel us with you in that moment. The number of times I played Pokemon Go in the bathroom of a party, immense. And you can know that I am spiritually with you if you do that.
JULIA: I love that.
DR. MOIYA: All of us are spiritually with you. Yeah. We've all done that.
AMANDA: Well, what an installment. Thank you as always for communing with our favorite gods and goddesses and bringing a lot of wonderful advice, not just to our conspirators, but also to me.
DR. MOIYA: Oh.
JULIA: Well, you provided a lot of great advice, yourself, my friend.
AMANDA: Just trying.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, I'm always walking away from these recordings with pages of notes of how to live life.
AMANDA: Yay.
JULIA: No homework from Amanda this time around, but that's okay.
AMANDA: Whoo.
JULIA: Great advice and great resources.
AMANDA: Take a break from a thing you don't want to do in the bathroom sometime.
JULIA: That's great homework. I'm going to do that all the time.
AMANDA: Thank you both, again. Thank you, Dr. Moiya McTier. Everybody go check out Exolore. Follow Moya on social @GoAstroMo. I promise you won't regret it.
DR. MOIYA: Thank you.
AMANDA: And everybody, remember.
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool. Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @spiritspodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a forum to send us in your urban legends, and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast for all kinds of behind-the-scenes goodies. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more like recipe cards with alcoholic and non-alcoholic for every single episode, director's commentaries, real physical gifts, and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye.
Transcribed by: John Matthew Sarong
Edited by: Krizia Marie Casil