Episode 379: Your Urban Legends LXXXIX - 7 Minutes in Heaven with a Ghost
/The family that listens to Spirits together, stays together. Or that’s what we’re guessing after this follow up email we got! Also, are you up to the task of cleaning haunted hospitals at night?
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of violence against women, death, pregnancy, miscarriage, illness, drowning, child death, infidelity, and animal death.
Housekeeping
- TOUR: Get tickets for our Rolling Bones Tour!
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends A GRAVE ROBBERY by Deanna Raybourn
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at https://spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out Multitude’s newest MultiCrew benefit, the MultiCrew Review!
Sponsors
- Blueland creates everyday eco-friendly cleaning productions that save you money and space, without any plastic waste. Get 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com/spirits.
- BetterHelp is an online therapy service. Get 10% off your first month at https://betterhelp.com/spirits
- Naked Wines is a subscription service that sends you a box of the market's best-quality wines for a fraction of the price you’d normally pay in stores. Get 6 bottles of wine for $39.99 at NakedWines.com/SPIRITS.
Find Us Online
- Website & Transcripts: https://spiritspodcast.com
- Patreon: https://patreon.com/spiritspodcast
- Merch: https://spiritspodcast.com/merch
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/spiritspodcast
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/spiritspodcast
- Tumblr: https://spiritspodcast.tumblr.com
- Goodreads: https://goodreads.com/group/show/205387
Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: https://multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
AMANDA: Conspirators, I have amazing news, Spirits is coming to a city near you with the Rolling Bones Tour, 7 cities, 10 days, end of March 2024. We are performing with your other favorite podcast, Join the Party, as we play games, roll dice, make monsters, learn stories, and a whole lot more. Come see us on March 21st in Seattle at the Here-After, March 22nd in Minneapolis at Granada, March 24th in Chicago at Reggie's, March 25th in Boston at the Rockwell, March 26th in New York City at Littlefield, March 27th in Philly at the City Winery, and March 28th in DC at Atlas Brew Works. Get your tickets right now at spiritspodcast.com/live. That's spiritspodcast.com/live. You can see all the ticket links there and find the city that works for you. Spirits in your city, us buying drinks, drinking the drinks, talking about stories. Gosh, we're so excited. We're coordinating our outfits already. Julia and I cannot wait. When you're rolling the bones, your future is looking good. Join us.
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AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And hey, it's another hometown urban legends episode.
AMANDA: Hey. Love to hear it. I am so excited to see what completely terrifying, hilarious, and maybe sweet urban legends our listeners have written in with.
JULIA: I'm very excited because I think our next hometown urban legends episode is going to be the, like, wholesome, here's what my parents did to make my life a little bit more magical episode.
AMANDA: So cute.
JULIA: So this one needs to be extra spooky to balance that out, I think.
AMANDA: I'm all in. Julia, do you have a story that you want to start with?
JULIA: I do. I have a follow-up to a follow-up email, Amanda.
AMANDA: Whoa.
JULIA: About the SK Pierce Victorian Mansion.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Which you might remember. We originally got an email from SW about their mom's experiences in the house and, like, growing up in the neighborhood where the house was.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And then the mom wrote in.
AMANDA: I know. Incredible, incredible.
JULIA: And now, we have Katie. So Katie writes, "Hello friends, new listener here. I've only listened to a handful of episodes, but I intend to add you to my regular rotation. Y'all seem right up my alley for the type of podcasts that I listen to, mostly true crime and paranormal. So I'm glad that I was introduced to you. I hear that you like follow-up letters, so how about a follow-up to a follow-up?"
AMANDA: Make my day, why don't you?
JULIA: That's right. We are completing the trifecta here. "I'm SW's older sister, the one that spent the night at the SK Pierce Mansion with my mom as a graduation present."
AMANDA: Yes. Yes. Katie, make the triumvirate whole. I love this.
JULIA: "That's actually how I was introduced to the pod, when my mom sent me a text to our family group chat in utter glee that you read her story." This is so cute. I love the multi-generational Spirits listeners. This is fantastic.
AMANDA: Julia, this is how you grow a podcast. You have listeners submissions, make listeners, make their mom write in for verification, and then make the moms go to the family group chats to make their other kids listen. Did it.
JULIA: If you're not texting about podcasts in your family group chats, what are y'all even doing here?
AMANDA: What are you even doing?
JULIA: Katie also clarifies that "in my mom's letter, she referred to me as K, but please feel free to call me Katie. It's a common enough name for my little sister to retain her anonymity, and it's probably easier since I'm married and my surname no longer starts with a W."
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: "Also, I totally Googled it, and although I didn't get a straight answer from the internet, it seems to be that the consensus that the number one haunted house in Massachusetts would either be the Lizzie Borden House or something in Salem, much to nobody's surprise."
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Also, Massachusetts is a state that doesn't have to tell you if your house is haunted, unless you explicitly asked, which we did cover in the Ghostbusters case episode from a while back.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: She continues, "I know that it was mentioned that Ghost Adventures and in parentheses (screw Zak Bagans), which I agree with wholeheartedly, had visited the mansion, but so to ghost hunters and my ghost story. Not to mention the numerous books written about the very house. So for context's sake, I will admit that I have been ghost hunting in this house twice with my mom, and the two times meshed together in my memory, and I can't really remember which events happened at which time. Thanks, ADHD and terrible memory retention. I hope you have your seatbelts buckled because here we go."
AMANDA: Julia, remember when we thought that the highlight of the story was that SK Pierce was a chairmaker?
JULIA: Yes, yes, I remember the chair maker. We were like, "And he was in— he had a mansion from chair making?"
AMANDA: He wasn't rich enough? Chairs could get you a mansion back then? Oh, boy. Oh, baby, I'm excited.
JULIA: "In May of 2016, I walked across the stage to receive my bachelor's degree and almost immediately ran home. I grabbed my overnight bag and off we went to the Victorian. As my sister-in-law mentioned, I am very sensitive to spirits, the paranormal, and all of that. As soon as I stepped into the mansion, it all came rushing at me, and the sheer weight of the paranormal in the house settled on me. We all hung around in the kitchen, waiting for the rest of the group to arrive, so that we could get the party started. As soon as everyone arrived, we started with a basic tour of the place, spending a little extra time in some of the most notable areas. We went all the way to the servants' quarters on the very top floor and into the basement. The singular place that we did not explore was the spire, as at that time, they had not yet done any maintenance to it, and it was deemed unsafe for the general public."
AMANDA: Good. Good call.
JULIA: As the wife of a building inspector, solid, don't break those rules. For your own safety, you know? It's not the government trying to tell you, "Oh, you can't go there because we said so. It's for your own safety. That's why we have OSHA laws. "Although, we were not allowed to go up there, we all took turns standing at the landing of the staircase to the spire and trying to crane our necks to pier up the spiral staircase to perhaps catch a glimpse of any ghosts that may be lingering. One of the rooms with notable activity was the red room. Not only is it ominous, but it has a very violent story to go with it. Back when the mansion was a brothel when, but not if, that room belonged to one of the sex workers. Unfortunately, she was strangled to death by one of the Johns and he hid her body in the closet where it was found later. This room is said to have a strong influence on women in particular, which I can attest to, as I am one of those people who experienced something. I felt this absolutely immense pressure come over me, and I felt like I couldn't breathe. Before even beginning the tour, we had been advised that if anyone became overwhelmed, the best way to react would be to step outside and quite literally ground ourselves. I was only in that room for not even two minutes before I pretty much ran down the stairs and outside, as I couldn't stay in that room for a second more."
AMANDA: That must be very scary, but I'm glad you got that advice. That seems like a good thing to do.
JULIA: Yeah, clearly the people who are running this tour, know what they're doing, have the experience of that and were like, "Hey, listen, this is what has worked in the past, just heed our advice."
AMANDA: Also, I gotta say, the red room never not gonna be violent. I feel like probably they named it afterward, but if you're— if you're just, for example, I don't know, the US White House, maybe don't name a room the red room after the wallpaper and/or China that's there. Maybe just choose any other color.
JULIA: Here's my hot take, stop painting rooms red.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: This has to be.
AMANDA: Like, maybe it's your favorite color, if so, I'm all for it. I'm wearing a red cardigan right now, it makes me feel cheerful. I don't want to be surrounded by red like I am in Osmosis Jones traveling through the heart. I just don't. I just don't.
JULIA: Okay. Good reference, good reference. I like it.
AMANDA: What can I tell you, Julia? Microbiology really made an impact on me.
JULIA: Okay. So Katie continues, "Once I was able to catch my breath and felt grounded and able to breathe again, I went back inside and rejoined to the group. That was the first and most likely the last time that I set foot in that room. Unsurprisingly, my experience in the red room is what the typical experience that women have in that room. Although, I am lucky enough to have had one of the most intense that they had seen."
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Listen, if you're going in and you're already sensitive, and it impacts people who are not sensitive, of course, it's going to impact you more, you know?
AMANDA: The W family already setting records. I love this.
JULIA: "Not only is the house said to be haunted, but the mediums that were our experience leaders made sure to mention that there was at least one portal in the house, in the room where billiards was played."
AMANDA: Portal to where?
JULIA: Hmm, spirit portal? Spirit portal.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "A second was mentioned to be in the basement."
AMANDA: Uh-oh.
JULIA: "After the basic tour led by the managers of the house, we were allowed to split into smaller groups, with or without the mediums and using either our own equipment or extra equipment that had been brought. Mom and I flitted around the house, going between exploring ourselves or joining larger groups. On the third floor, the servants' quarters, there is a tale that one of the maids either lost her pregnancy or had a stillbirth in the bathroom. This was unknown to me at the time, and the sheer sadness of the aura in that room had me almost in tears." Which, you know, again, like that kind of impact, I really— I really am always interested in people who, like, kind of go into rooms blind and then, like, feel a certain emotion and then—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —later have that validated for them.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. No, it— it always strikes me as like, yep, there you go, there you go, folks. Don't like it. It feels like incontrovertible evidence somehow.
JULIA: Yeah. That's only happened to be once in my entire life, where I was at a garage sale, probably when I was a teenager. And it was one of the— it wasn't a garage sale, but more like an estate sale, where you kind of wander through a person's house.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And, you know, buy their stuff. And we went into one of the bedrooms, I was like, "I don't like the vibe in here, mom." My mom was like, |I could buy a sewing machine for $20." I'm like, "That's awesome, mom. I want to leave. And then as we were leaving that bedroom, I heard the owner being like, "Yeah, and you know, that's where mom died. And I'm like—
AMANDA: Yep. Nope, vibes are bad. I'm out of here.
JULIA: Called it. Called it.
AMANDA: Gonna trust my gut, gonna get the hell out.
JULIA: So we continue with, "We went on to play ball with one of the child spirits residing in the house. I believe there is said to be at least two. And I think one of them died from smallpox around the age of 4, but don't quote me on that, because my memory may be off."
AMANDA: Sorry, you played ball with them?
JULIA: They'll probably rolled a ball and then the spirit rolled the ball back. I've seen that on shows before.
AMANDA: Oh, boy.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. That's nice, right? That's cool.
AMANDA: Oh, baby.
JULIA: "They watched a poker game for a bottle of whiskey between one of the mediums and Eino, who is a man who was said to have spontaneously combusted."
AMANDA: Oh, sure. Let's— just— let's add a legend to legend. Like if we're at it, let's go at it, you know?
JULIA: "I had one of the ghosts requests me in particular to join them in the closet of one of the bedrooms. You know, probably 7 minutes in heaven with a ghost."
AMANDA: I mean, listen, I'm not saying you shouldn't, what I am saying is your mom's there, and so maybe think about that.
JULIA: "Also, had someone poke me in the back in the basement while I was pulled towards one of the cisterns where a young boy was said to have drowned and so much more."
AMANDA: Yeah, again, this house wasn't in use for that long to have this many suspicious deaths, in my opinion.
JULIA: And apparently, a lot of tragedy going on. "This basement is also the basis of one of the books written about the house called Bones in the Basement."
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: "Where you guessed it, one of the owners found bones after being found by their spouse digging in the basement in a trance."
AMANDA: Oh. Hmm. Ah.
JULIA: There's so much to experience there. You want to break it down?
AMANDA: Yeah, Julia, run me back.
JULIA: Book called Bones in the Basement.
AMANDA: Great title. Great title.
JULIA: One of the owners found bones after being found by their spouse digging in the basement in a trance.
AMANDA: Yeah, that's going to be a no for me, dawg. Absolutely terrifying the thought that you just sort of wake up and you're digging in your basement, in your nightclothes, unbeknownst to you, and your spouse is like, "What the hell?"
JULIA: And then you look down and there's human bones.
AMANDA: Uh-huh. I mean, I would also want a book written about that, so at least, you know, that experience was sort of captured and validated.
JULIA: I'm gonna very quickly see if my library has Bones in the Basement available.
AMANDA: Yeah. Also, the whole W family better be coming to our live show next week in Boston. Come on, come on.
JULIA: "Honestly, I could go on and on, but let's get to the climax of the story, the overnight."
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: "The group of us that were staying overnight split into two, with one group spending the night in one room and the others in the room across the hall, with our medium/guide sleeping in the hall between the rooms." Kind of like when you would go on trips with like Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts—
AMANDA: Yes,
JULIA: —and they're like, "Alright, all the children go into there. The parents are going to sleep outside so the children can't sneak out."
AMANDA: Julia, if you were doing an overnight in a haunted location, and people were like, "Okay, these are the two rooms, choose whatever." How are you choosing? Are you going with like a group you vibe with? Are you choosing a comfortable vibe? Are you choosing a scary vibe? What are you going for?
JULIA: I mean, I'm choosing the comfortable vibe.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: You know?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Like, the ghosts can kind of like chill with me, but I don't want to be awoken in the middle of the night by the stank of a demon, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah. I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm probably choosing whatever one is closest to the bathroom, so that I, you know, can pee in the middle of night.
JULIA: I mean, this is a mansion, Amanda, it's probably got bathrooms attached to each room.
AMANDA: That's true, that's true.
JULIA: "So the room that we slept in was the same room that Eino was said to have spontaneously combusted in."
AMANDA: Of the poker and the whiskey.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. They also add, "There's also a less fun story where he just fell asleep with a lit cigarette."
AMANDA: I mean, that is a thing that happened to people in the past.
JULIA: Yes. But spontaneously combusted, much more fun.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: "There were three smaller groups within this room, me and my mother, and then two other pairs of women. My mother and I were up against the wall, right next to the door. There was another pair of people against the wall opposite to us, and the third was up against the bay windows. One of the ladies that was set up against the windows said that she had zero intentions of sleeping that night and plan to stay up all night."
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: "My mother and I set up our air mattress and sleeping bags, changed, and crawled into bed. I've always taken ages to fall asleep, but it took a particularly long time that night due to the unfamiliar location and excitement. I was woken a few hours later, I think it was around 3:00 AM." The witching hour.
AMANDA: The witching hour, by the way.
JULIA: "To a commotion, any flurry of activity. One of the ladies against the wall opposite us was in a tizzy, repeating, 'Get off me. Stop pulling my hair. Leave me alone.' Again and again."
AMANDA: Damn. Was this lady a plant? That's very scary.
JULIA: That is very scary. "The hair-pulling stopped, but then her blanket was being pulled off of her." Rude in my opinion, but I digress. "This is when she said, 'Leave me alone, I'm not your mistress.'"
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: "She fell quiet as the activity around her stopped. I was barely awake, but I sure felt the obvious kick at the foot of the air mattress as the entity left the room, leaving behind a slight breeze with the kick."
AMANDA: Whoa. Damn, dude.
JULIA: "I don't remember anything else happening that night. I woke up the next morning, but touching the cold floor below, head ever so slightly elevated, and legs all the way up in the air, because the mattress was deflating.'
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "With our middle-of-the-night excitement, the mattress had still been perfectly blown up with no hint of deflating. It was also a newer mattress, which had only been used once or twice before, with not a single incidence of deflating during since."
AMANDA: Point of order, Julia, it was the ghost.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: The ghost kicked it.
JULIA: I think that's the implication. Yeah.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "The mattress has also never held air again after that night, and not a hole or pinprick could be located anywhere."
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: "I really do think that a disgruntled ghost broke the mattress that night. We told our story at breakfast, and then everyone left. I went home and took a nap since I was still very tired."
AMANDA: Damn, dude.
JULIA: Katie continues, "I have many more experiences if you want to hear them. I'm not sure why I say it, because I know you're already saying, 'Yes, I want to hear those stories.'" Which is correct, you've listened to enough of these episodes—
AMANDA: That's right.
JULIA: —that you know. "Just let me know, and I will definitely type them up, and send them over to you. Whether you want to read them on the show or keep them to yourself, it's all up to you. There is the time that I worked in the restaurant of a haunted hotel, multiple instances of being in Salem, including the tour that my mom and I went on, where we made friends with the one and only, Giles Corey. Our haunted house, which is basically cats, dogs, reptiles, rabbits, other assorted pets, in addition to my grandfather. A family friend's house with a incredibly creepy basement. And, of course, the period of time, my sister S spent as a creepy kid, which honestly doesn't even really scratch the surface of that chunk of time. I remember it far better than she does, and we'd be happy to share it if she's willing to give me permission. I hope you're happy to receive the final puzzle piece of my family's experience at the SK Pierce Mansion. Katie." Now, Katie, you— you've completed the puzzle, that was the SK Pierce Mansion. And then you were just like, "And now, here's the surrounding—"
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: "—puzzle of our entire family dynamic." And now, I need it.
AMANDA: Exactly. I think what's happened is we've completed the border of the puzzle, Julia. And now there's the interior of the puzzle to keep adding to. May I humbly suggest that we give this a wonderful, creepy, appreciative family, the moniker of the Winchesters? A, on account of the mystery house, and B on account of supernatural.
JULIA: I'll allow it.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: And if that's too close to your name, I'm sorry.
AMANDA: But no, this— this was incredibly fun. Thank you, Katie. Thank you, mom. Thank you, S. Incredibly happy to hear about all three perspectives. It's like one of those stories, Julia, like a frame narrative where we see it, you know, through each character's point of view, and at the end, you figure out who got murdered. It's perfect.
JULIA: Yes. My favorite, my favorite type of trope.
AMANDA: Incredible. Thank you all. This is incredibly satisfying. And if you, listeners, would like to wrangle your family group text and telling you some creepy stories, hey, you can be the next Winchesters, you know?
JULIA: We want to hear about it.
AMANDA: We want to hear about it.
JULIA: Amanda, why don't we grab a quick refill, and then we will hear some other spooky stories and spooky tales.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
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AMANDA: Hello, hello, everybody. Welcome to the refill. It's me, Amanda. I am so, so excited because this is the last refill I will be recording at home before I head out for a couple of days of like semi-work, semi-vacation to see friends before the Rolling Bones Tour. Oh, my God, I'm so ready. I just picked out all my outfits. I cannot wait to meet so many of you in person. And if you have not yet bought your tickets, if you have friends who live in Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, Boston, DC, Philly, or New York City, tell them to come. The better this goes, the quicker we can do our next tour, and see even more of you. So if you can send them the link, spiritspodcast.com/live, we would so appreciate it. Thank you and welcome to our newest patrons, Kate and Nicole, so appreciate you, especially because both of you joined as annual members, which is super helpful for us because it sort of decreases the chances that your credit card will expire or something and then you are not a patron without realizing it, which happens to people all the time. And also helpful for you because you get a discount on the entire year of membership. We love to see it. Thank you as well to supporting producers, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Arianna, Ginger Spurs Boi, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, and Scott. And our legend-level patrons, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Jeremiah, Michael, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. If you would like to join these distinguished ranks and enjoy the hundreds and hundreds, probably thousands of bonus items we have for you over on the Patreon, whether that's the additional your urban legends episode that you get every day of the month as a Spirits patron or any of the other things, recipe cards, poetry corner from back in the day, so much to enjoy, ad-free episodes, do it at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. I have been highly enjoying mystery novels recently, something about the winter really makes me crave that format. And I especially love the Deanna Raybourn series about Veronica Speedwell. She is an incredibly fun and sort of precocious like Victorian woman, intellectual and researcher, and investigator. And this was the first series that started the me and my grandma mystery book club. This is book number nine in the Veronica Speedwell series. It just came out and I pre-ordered it from my grandma months ago. And it just came out yesterday. She was so excited to get it at her door. And if you are into beautiful cover illustrations, interesting mysteries, and women kicking butt and doing science in Victorian times, highly recommend this series. I have also been busy in my pre-tour prep, doing a special new series for the Multi-Crew member RSS feed. The Multi-Crew, of course, is the membership program that supports Multitude, the podcast company that we do as our jobs now, full-time. All the way from making Spirits in the living room of my apartment in late 2015. Now, Julia and I are full-time podcasters at Multitude in part because of the support of the Multi-Crew. And so this month, I'm sitting down with a bunch of people, including Julia, to talk about their creative origins, with their origin story as a creator, the creative communities and places that they felt really, you know, engaged and excited about making stuff online early in their lives. And Julia's and mine does include printing out fanfiction for Julia to beta read during math class. So if you want that story and several more, you got to join the Multi-Crew. Go to multicrew.club, sign up today, and put your money toward the future of collective media. That's what we're doing here, and that's what I think is beautiful. Join us now. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Now, if I had an extra hour in my day, I would like to say that I would like, you know, practice ASL more or, you know, do more meal prep. But honestly, what I would do is, like, lay down in the sun with nothing in my headphones, and just think. And just like watch people, and dogs, and babies, and old folks, and shopkeepers, like, walk around my neighborhood and be a part of society in a way that I find it really easy to put on the back burner when I'm feeling overwhelmed. And something that I definitely know I do, it's not an hour a day, but it is an hour every week that I put toward myself, and my growth, and development, and happiness in therapy. And sometimes it's challenging, sometimes it feels really reassuring, but I know that every single week, I'm slowly building the muscle of taking time for myself and figuring out how to make myself happier. Because one of the big realizations for me, as I am, you know, in my early 30s, not quite mid-30s yet, it's like no one's gonna come do that for me. And I love my parents, and I love my spouse, and I love my friends, but like ultimately I am the one responsible for my life. And therapy is a really good place for me to remember that and make plans to make myself happier. So learn to make time for what makes you happy with BetterHelp. You can visit betterhelp.com/spirits today for 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, .com/spirits. We are also sponsored by Naked Wines. 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[theme]
AMANDA: Julia, we are back from the refill. I know it has been an absolutely wild few weeks for you, lots of travel, lots of work, lots of family obligations going on. Have you had time to sit down and enjoy a cup of tea, or maybe some French press, or maybe a cocktail amidst all of that chaos?
JULIA: I have been feeling a little bit too tired to make cocktails, which is shocking for me. I know. It's— it's a real— a real tragedy here.
AMANDA: It happens.
JULIA: But I have been enjoying some of the wines that we got from Naked Wine.
AMANDA: Hey, not spon, simply true.
JULIA: Not spon currently. But sometimes I just, like, pop open the bottle and all— I really liked all the wines that we've opened so far from them.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And it just makes it easier to like have a glass of wine with dinner without having to run to the store or anything like that. And yeah, that's— that's been my, you know, alcoholic beverage of the week.
AMANDA: Love it. Julia, we are recording this just hours before my birthday, where if you haven't wished me happy birthday on social media yet, thank you, @shessomickey, please do. No— no time is wrong, specifically if you want to buy tickets to our live show, it's a great time, spiritspodcast.com/live. But a local woman-owned brewery, Talea offers you a free pour for your birthday, so I am going to go later today. And the one that I have been eyeing, it feels like fall-spring in New York right now, so I am going to try the cranberry orange splash.
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: —which is a sour ale, orange marmalade, ocean, spray, cranberry sauce, tasting notes, and it is brewed with real cranberry orange and sea salt. So to me, it feels like a perfect winter, but not too heavy sort of situation. I'm very excited to try it.
JULIA: You want to hear something wild, Amanda?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: They carry that at my local Trader Joe's—
AMANDA: Whoa.
JULIA: —and it's the greatest thing. Every time I see a Talea beer on the shelf, I'm like, "I know them."
AMANDA: They have great distribution, good for them.
JULIA: They're really spreading out and I love that for them.
AMANDA: Alrighty, Jules. I have a story here from Ansku who is a listener from Finland. Titled Ghost Pupper Shipwreck or Both?
JULIA: I don't even know.
AMANDA: Right?
JULIA: My guess is both. I have no context, but both is my guess.
AMANDA: This is one of the first emails that we received in 2024, and so I— I was very happy. It's very fortuitous, and let's get going. So Ansku writes, "Hi, Spirits people. I am a 20-something-year-old Finnish lady living in London. And while I haven't had the spooky encounters, or so I think, here I am to tell you about the closest I've ever come to one."
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: "(Please, ghosts, don't come at me now that I put that in writing.)"
JULIA: Yeah, knock on wood there, you know?
AMANDA: "When I tell you I've been procrastinating with sending this one in, I mean, it's been a good 4 years or so since I started listening to the pod, and went, "Well, it's not much, but I might as well write in. I even had a chat with my mom about 3 months ago just to make sure I had all the facts right to write in to you. For a little background info, when I was between the ages 7 to 11, my family and I used to travel to Thailand every winter for a few weeks at a time. We went 3 or 4 times in total if I remember correctly. It was always me, my parents, my aunt, and her husband. And it was a relaxing yet adventurous time, because we never just stayed at the hotel, but instead went exploring the countryside on scooters. One of our adventures made it into one of my school essays, and I'm pretty sad I've lost the original notebook because reading the thoughts of little me would have been great for my research. But enough background, here's the story. The family and I had rented the scooters as normal and headed out into the countryside somewhere in Thailand one day. We drove for a good hour or so, admiring the nature and stopped by this lovely restaurant near a big body of water, a sea or lake, I don't really recall."
JULIA: That's very nice, but I'm so suspicious.
AMANDA: "The scenery was gorgeous, and the family who ran the business was so lovely, telling us that if we wanted to head out for a picnic on one of the little islands visible from the restaurant, they'd be happy to pack us a lunch and give us a boat ride over." This is— in the context of an urban legend, I am worried. But typically, we're like normally outside of that, you know, context, sounds lovely.
JULIA: Yeah, sounds lovely. And thankfully, we're not a true crime podcast, otherwise, I'd be like, "I can't believe this ghost is writing into us."
AMANDA: Seriously. "We agreed and soon got into their boat with a basket of tasty treats, like to this day, the best spring rolls I have ever had. As they dropped us off, they told us they would come pick us up in two or three hours and wished us a nice picnic. We swam, and ate lunch, and enjoyed our surroundings. But when I got bored, I asked my mom if I could go exploring along the beach. My mom, who's an active and adventurous person, agreed and we started wandering on the other side of the island while the rest of our party stayed put. We were chattering and came by this huge tree with massive, tangled roots that went into the water. When I saw it, there was a dog in the middle of the roots, just standing in the water, staring at us.
JULIA: Okay. Not, like, weird, weird, you know? Like—
AMANDA: But kind of weird.
JULIA: Stray dogs are a thing, you know, and—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —I guess, you know, maybe he's, like, found some shade in the— the roots of the tree or something like that. I'm trying to assume the best because I love dogs so much.
AMANDA: I know. I— I guess I would have expected the dog to come find you when you brought food to the island, especially this is like a— a repeat picnic destination for the people who own the restaurant. But, you know, nothing inherently wrong with this so far.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "So being a massive animal lover, as I still am, I remember the dog perfectly. It was light brown with some black patches, and looks super healthy, and really sweet. We tried to call it over, but it just stood there, staring at us."
JULIA: Sure.
AMANDA: "Now the island was supposed to be empty, so it didn't make a lot of sense to me that there would be a dog there. I wanted to show the weird discovery to my auntie's husband, my uncle, so we walked back to the others. My uncle came along with mom and I to look for the dog again, but when we got back to that tree, the dog wasn't there anymore."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "Thinking that the whole situation was a little bit weird, but it must be someone's dog and surely, it just went back home again. We returned to our picnic and swimming, and soon the restaurant owners came back to pick us up."
JULIA: I like that the restaurant owners left you there, too. That's— that's interesting.
AMANDA: I know.
JULIA: But also like a lot of times islands off of coasts, sometimes— first off, dogs can swim.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: But sometimes, you know, when the tide is lower, it's much easier to access those islands and like, you know, cave systems and stuff like that. So it's very possible that this dog, even if it's not owned by someone, at least could have swam over there or, like, you know— not necessarily like, oh, it's just this dog on this remote island that it couldn't possibly be here unless it was someone else's, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah. I totally agree with you. I'm also wouldn't be that surprised if regardless, the dog knew that people brought picnics there, or maybe it's waiting to scavenge afterward, fine.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: But Julia, there's more to the story.
JULIA: Uh-huh.
AMANDA: "So when the family came back in their boat to pick us up, we told them, 'Oh, we saw that cute dog.' They seemed really confused and said it would be impossible that a dog would be there because nobody visits or lives on the island, and it was too far away from shore to swim."
JULIA: Okay. I mean, clearly, people visit the island because you dropped them off there.
AMANDA: I mean, via boat but not— not like habitually.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "We were all kind of creeped out, but just brushed it off, and haven't really talked about it since other than the phone call I had with my mom a while back to confirm my details."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "The experiences live in my head rent-free ever since it happened. Was it a dog that was on a ship but fell overboard? Did the ship crash and it was the only survivor? Was it a ghost? Maybe both?"
JULIA: Maybe both. I'm trying to logic my way through this one so hard, and I don't know why I'm like, "This is the one thing I can solve, is why this dog is on this island."
AMANDA: Well, Ansku continues, "Thank you for reading the story. Even though it's not super scary, it has been literally haunting me and my memory for decades. It is the closest I've ever come to a spooky event, including hearing our horses running around in our yard, even months after they pass, which was just comforting to me and not spooky."
JULIA: But also a little sad. There's such things, you know, cathartic, sad.
AMANDA: "Hope you guys keep making the pod as it brings me lots of joy. And may you not get haunted by ghosts pups, unless you want to. Lots of love, Ansku."
JULIA: Do I want to is the question.
AMANDA: It's possible.
JULIA: Very possible.
AMANDA: So I'd be very curious about people's opinions, because if— yeah, if the island was, like, too far that you wouldn't imagine a dog just kind of like go in there for funsies, and there weren't lots of strays, which I feel like, you know, she made a mention if it was relevant. Very curious, especially with the family that lived there was like, "There's no dogs on that island." That particular detail really gets to me.
JULIA: Yeah, no, I think— I don't know. I just don't know. You know, sometimes just weird animals appear in places that you're not expecting. Like, how Brooklyn has like a large parakeet population, you know?
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, people just let that shit go, and they continue to live.
JULIA: Yeah. You know, maybe that dog just got there and is doing his best eating fish and whatnot.
AMANDA: I kind of love it.
JULIA: Kind of love it.
AMANDA: But, Julia, I wanted to follow that up with a chaser.
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: Which was an email that came in, just moments later, from Sarah, she/her, about creating her own suburban legend. So maybe you're in a— a good kind of creative analytical headspace for rating and analyzing Sarah's legend.
JULIA: I'm ready for it. Let's bring it on.
AMANDA: Alright. Sarah says, "Hey, Spirits team. Thank you for creating such a wonderful show for all of us weirdos. Heart."
JULIA: Yay.
AMANDA: "I've been meaning to tell you this suburban legend for an absolute age, so here we go at last. This is about a time I invented a monster that freaked out my youngest sister and her friends for years."
JULIA: Excellent.
AMANDA: "In the early 2000s, my family and I lived in a lovely house in Helsinki, Finland." Another Finnish listener. See, back-to-back, this is absolute synergy. "And you can get to the local woods almost from our doorstep. My sisters and I used to spend a lot of time in the woods, playing and pretending to be an elf, maybe that was just me. I was in my teens and as the eldest sister, I was allowed to go into the woods when it was dark. I like to go stargazing in a clearing that felt particularly elvish to me. And yes, I did read Lord the Rings at an impressionable age."
JULIA: Very quickly Googling bears in Finland. There's brown bears in Finland, just saying.
AMANDA: Yep, yep. Yeah.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. Okay, interesting.
AMANDA: "My sisters, who were a few years younger than me, especially my impulsive youngest sister, would have wanted to go into the woods too, but they were not allowed after dark. I reckon that our parents' sensible words wouldn't be enough to dissuade especially my youngest sister from venturing into the woods at night, so I made up a monster."
JULIA: So it's time to lie to a child.
AMANDA: Exactly. "I told my sister and her friends terrifying tales of the monster, karamodon, who lives in our local woods and came out at night."
JULIA: That's the most Lord of the Rings bullshit name I've ever heard.
AMANDA: Right?
JULIA: You're just— you're telling about yourself here.
AMANDA: It's so incredible. "So if you went out in the dark off the lit paths and into the actual woods, karamodon would come and find you. He was completely invisible, all except a single eye, which glowed red and menacing in the dark."
JULIA: No. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Don't like it.
AMANDA: It's menacing, right? "It was a huge beast as tall as the pine trees, and all the more eldritch for no one truly knowing what it looks like. If it saw you in the dark, it would eat you right up. And if you met it, that red eye would be the last thing you ever saw."
JULIA: Alright. If I was— I don't know how the rest of the story is going to go. But if I was really committed to the bit, you know I'd go to the, like, hardware store or whatever the equivalent in Finland is.
AMANDA: Maybe hardware stores.
JULIA: Yeah. You know, maybe you buy a— a flashlight, red saran wrap, climb a tree, put it in there, pretty close to your house, too—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —so that they see it from, like, the tree line and they know.
AMANDA: Yeah. And just be like, Hey, guys, just like watch out. Just like make sure that you know, whatever doesn't come through." And then like 10 minutes after you walk into the woods, just like start flashing it, terrifying.
JULIA: Spooky.
AMANDA: "I don't remember any specific stories, but I must have described karamodon, perfectly, vividly, striking fear into children's hearts, because my sister and her friends didn't go walking in the woods after dark until I moved out."
JULIA: Good. Good. Solid.
AMANDA: "I thought they were just humoring me, and they knew I was telling them a story I'd invented, even if I did a pretty convincing job of having a scary tone as I told it. Because even as a child and teenager, my favorite pastime was writing stories. But it turns out those poor kids were genuinely terrified of the monster I made up."
JULIA: Okay. I— I understand where you're coming from, where you're like, "Well, clearly, I was telling a fake story just to entertain the children. But you did say you told them that because you're like, "My logical parents' explanation won't sink into their brain, so it's time to terrify them."
AMANDA: You did a great job. And this concludes with, "My sisters and I are now in our 30s, and my youngest sister recently told me that my karamodon legend was so scary that one of her friends still remembers this damn monster I made up as a cautionary tale. This has been a household name for us, and apparently other families too, ever since I invented it."
JULIA: You know it's going to spread, and then all of a sudden, like there'll be like the classic Finnish tale of the karamodon.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. "So if anyone out there needs a suburban legend to keep their kids out of the dark woods, perhaps you can spread the word. Cheers, Sarah."
JULIA: Alright, Amanda. I've got one more to close this out, this is from Tanya. And she writes, "Don't let the ghosts know that their house is being sold."
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Now, she starts, "To set the scene, I am an environmental services technician for a hospital, which is housekeeping. Do we get a pay raise with those syllables? Hell no. We have several rural clinics that were responsible for taking care of and one such had been sold as the owner was retiring. This particular clinic has the same name as a famous fictional serial killer, but we'll just call it Dahmer. As if you read this, it will have a deeper, more hilarious meaning to my entire circle of friends. You also get a twofer, because the second incident really needs the first as backstory."
AMANDA: Sorry, I'm just— I'm just stuck on the health clinic that shares a name. I'm sure just based on the person's name that owns it, or that funded it with a famous murderer, which you know, perhaps not the best branding choice, but what do I know?
JULIA: Famous fictional serial killer. I wonder if it's like Hannibal Lecter or something like that.
AMANDA: But still.
JULIA: Yeah, still bad, still bad. Not disagreeing with you, just trying to guess fictional serial killers, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah. Or like the Ripper clinic, but I hope not.
JULIA: Alright. So let's set our scene here. "The first time Carla, my lead EVS and I went up to the Dahmer clinic together, the door sensor didn't go off, so we freaked out the staff because we just had showed, quote-unquote, 'showed up in the back.' So that kind of set the tone for the evening."
AMANDA: Okay, okay.
JULIA: "Later that night, Carla saw a shadow move from one wall to another, down the hall and into the back room, and yelled that someone was there. I sprinted down the hall, broom in hand, ready to beat down." And then in— in parentheses, "(We've already established that I will either die first in the horror movie, or I'll come back in the finale to beat someone in the head.)"
AMANDA: That's very good.
JULIA: Which, you know, a great person to be in a horror movie, regardless.
AMANDA: It is— and more important than I think, Julia, I think it's crucial to know who you are in the horror movie, because then you know what to do, and you know how you're going to die, which is very comforting.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Yes, for sure, for sure. "But there was no one there, and nowhere to go, no secret door, or wall, or moving floor panel. We moved the one linen rack that could possibly have hidden anyone, but there was nowhere for a person to go that quickly. So we're kind freaked out, and then there's a pounding at the back door, and we both shrieked and I yelled, 'Who is it?' And we hear, 'Security.'"
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: "And I go, 'Prove it.' And then he goes, 'Tanya?" Because it was one of our security guards driving around, doing mobile rounds, and he saw the van, and wanted to know who was there. So we made him stay until we were done cleaning, just in case the shadow came back."
AMANDA: Smart. I'm also really glad that you're in a duo here, because presumably, you know, you have to do all your maintenance after it's closed for the day. And so like that's a vulnerable time to be in a huge building filled with— I'm sure no soft surfaces, on account of it has to be sterile alone.
JULIA: Yes, I 100% agree. I also love the— the sassiness of, "Prove it."
AMANDA: So good. So good. Like, instead of, "Can I see some identification?" Just say, "Prove it," in the future, anytime that anybody, you know, is coming to, like, read the electrical meter or whatever.
JULIA: And be like, "Claimed."
AMANDA: Prove it.
JULIA: Alright. "Cut to a few months later, Carla and I've been set to do the final clean and inspection of the Dahmer clinic. This would have been fine, except I decided to go up all capitals, THE STAIRS."
AMANDA: Wha— why are the stairs in all capitals?
JULIA: "We've had the Dahmer clinic for 10 years now, time isn't real. And the last time I went up those was in the daylight on first inspection with four other people. Every time I announced something creepy, Carla said she sped up her cleaning. It was your basic upstairs, there was two small rooms, one walled-off window, one normal window, two small doors leading under the eaves, one door at the end of a rickety staircase leading to the other side of the eaves, and the nailed-shut door."
AMANDA: Oh. That's bad.
JULIA: "Carla vehemently told me not to touch the door." See, Carla is the one that survives the horror movie.
AMANDA: Carla is the one who survives. Carla is the narrator and Carla is going to be in, like, the sequel that they produce 30 years later, when everybody is grown and wise.
JULIA: And still looks great for their age.
AMANDA: You know?
JULIA: Still look so good for their age. She also says, "I swear I never touched the nailed shut door."
AMANDA: Good.
JULIA: Fast forward to the end, we're almost done. "All we have left to pack in the work van is the vacuum and the chemical dispenser, which is a big blocky thing that's two feet wide and three feet high. And down the hall, in the lobby side of the building, I hear what sounds like a door being slammed or something really heavy being dropped, but all the doors were closed. We closed them behind us as we cleaned, and there was nothing in the building because we had taken it all to the new clinic."
AMANDA: Oh, interesting. It was like the final inspection, final job, okay.
JULIA: Before they, like, sold the— the place to someone else.
AMANDA: Got it.
JULIA: "I said, 'Did you hear that?' I can't remember if Carla actually heard it, but she went, 'What?' And I said, 'It sounded like a door being closed.' And I paused, and I looked at her, and I just said, 'Run.' She grabbed the chemical dispenser, and I grabbed the vacuum, and we bolted for the door."
AMANDA: I'm glad you can have fun at work with a compatriot, because if you had said that, and we were like new co-workers or— or not on like that level yet, I think that might be the scariest thing I've ever experienced.
JULIA: She continues, "I then asked if the door was locked, and Carla said, 'I don't care.' As she put the dispenser into the van and run to the driver's seat. And I had to, all caps, REACH INTO THE HAUNTED BUILDING TO LOCK THE DOOR, THROW THE VACUUM INTO THE VAN, AND WE PEELED OUT OF THE PARKING LOT, SHRIEKING HYSTERICALLY."
AMANDA: Yeah. Carla is so real for that one. I love Carla.
JULIA: "Later, Carla talked to a nurse who worked in the Dahmer clinic and the nurse said she went upstairs." Never do that.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Too late, ma'am.
AMANDA: Also, Julia, again, I know it's your husband who's the building inspector, but you know, a lot. I feel like if you don't go into a certain part of a building in 10 years, probably there might be a problem there. And so— and so maybe you should just, like, look at it every so often, just to make sure it's okay.
JULIA: Every once in a while, yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah. "So the nurse then informed Carla, that after the news of the clinic being sold broke, the ghost who had previously been content, got mad, and the doors and cupboards started opening and closing on their own. Paper towel dispensers went off without anyone being in the room. Drawers were jammed, lights would flicker. When I mentioned later that she run when I said, 'Run,' Carla said, 'When you say run, I run,' because I don't get scared. Startled, yes, but scared—"
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "—no. So I guess Carla is my conduit for the supernatural because my only spooky experiences at Dahmer clinic were with her." Thanks for sharing, Tanya and Carla.
AMANDA: Incredible. Tanya, thank you for writing in. I know I gave a lot of love on Carla in this one, but you were an excellent narrator, and I'm very glad that you're okay. And that nothing, you know, permanent happened to you.
JULIA: You're an excellent duo in both the work that you do, and also apparently, in storytelling, which is kind of a wonderful thing.
AMANDA: Yeah. And if— if you're into role-playing games, I would highly recommend inspectors, which Julia, her husband Jake, and Eric and me played over the first few months of lockdown virtually, and it was so much fun. And I think y'all would have a really good time pretending to be professional ghost hunters, because essentially you're amateur ghost hunters right now.
JULIA: Yeah. I also think that— and this is not— not shame to Carla, and Tanya, whatsoever. If you're people who are easily scared, I wouldn't work night jobs where you have to be alone in buildings by yourself.
AMANDA: Maybe this is their way of coping, though, you know? Is to— is to—
JULIA: Maybe.
AMANDA: —figure it out and be like, "Yeah, would it be great if, you know, this business would close during a certain day, we could do this work at a daytime shift, yes." But I— I approve of this method of coping if this is what they gotta do. You know what I mean?
JULIA: Yeah, it just— it— a lot of this reminded me of my mother-in-law and how she is very easily startled. Like, you could walk into a room and if she doesn't know you're there, she will let out the loudest scream you've ever heard.
AMANDA: Oh, boy.
JULIA: Just saying hi, and she'll turn around, look at you and scream. And you're like, "Cool, cool. Great. That makes sense."
AMANDA: I feel like if you have time to turn, and look, and then scream, you don't need to scream.
JULIA: It all kind of happens in one fluid motion, it's almost practiced.
AMANDA: Okay, okay.
JULIA: I— listen, I love that you have a co-worker who is just as into surviving the horror movie as you are, you know? That's important.
AMANDA: Truly so needed. And Julia, you're— you're my final girl.
JULIA: Oh, thank you, and you're mine, Amanda.
AMANDA: Thank you.
JULIA: I was just thinking about it. Let's— let's finish out with, if you were a character in a horror movie, like what kind of archetype would you be?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And I think that I would be the person who is, like, doing— you know in— in horror movies, there are, like, these weird phenomenons are happening where I keep seeing the strange name written in my household, and they do a little Google, and they, like, start doing research and stuff like that?
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: That's the trope that I am, and then that person inevitably gets, like, possessed or something by the demon.
AMANDA: Hmm. Yeah, it's like the spirit of Annabelle, but like a Victorian child who— whatever.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah. I think I'm the one who is too engrossed in her book to notice the intruder.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. And then you're just like going about your day and then you end up getting like stabbed in the bathtub. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Exactly right. But, you know, I didn't see it coming, which frankly, I prefer. So I—
JULIA: That's the better way to die.
AMANDA: I know. I die happy in, you know, chapter 30 of my book, so it's fine.
JULIA: There you go. You'll never finish that book, but at least you died not knowing that you were getting—
AMANDA: Yes!
JULIA: —slowly pursued through your household by a murderer.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Ignorance is bliss.
AMANDA: Ignorance can be bliss. And so, conspirators, next time you find yourself wondering, was that a door slamming or something else? Remember—
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: —stay cool.
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