Episode 364: Your Urban Legends LXXXV (with Jeffrey Cranor)
/Sometimes you buy a haunted painting and have to tell your friends. And sometimes you have to tell your guest a bunch of haunted theatre stories once they get back from tour. Thankfully we have writer and podcaster Jeffrey Cranor on to discuss all of those things!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of traffic accidents, death, child death, vomiting, fire, mannequins, sex, surgery, and teeth.
Guest
Jeffrey Cranor is the co-creator and co-writer of Welcome to Night Vale and Within the Wires. He also co-creates theater and dance pieces with choreographer/wife Jillian Sweeney. They live in New York.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends Wifedom by Anna Funder!
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
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About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And we are joined by one of our favorite spookiest friends, Jeffrey Cranor. Welcome to an urban legends episode of Spirits, which you've never joined us for before.
JEFFREY: I have not. Thank you all for having me. I'm so excited.
JULIA: It is our pleasure. It feels like you are sort of an expert in like weird hometown happenings nowadays, so it makes sense to have you here for a hometown urban legends episode.
JEFFREY: I'm excited to— I'm excited to talk about weird things in hometowns. This is very good.
JULIA: Jeffrey, I don't know if we've asked you this on the show before, but is there a particular like urban legend or story that you think was, like, unique to your hometown that you grew up with, or you just remember, like, hearing through the grapevine?
JEFFREY: In my head, I think this story exists beyond just my hometown, but when I've told it to people, nobody recognizes it. So—
AMANDA: Oh, perfect.
JEFFREY: —if your listeners recognize the story of something from their hometown, I would be very curious to see if other people heard it. But my stepbrother had told this to me when I was younger, and he said that there was kind of out in, like, Terrell, Texas, like East Texas. There was train tracks out there.
JULIA: Hmm.
JEFFREY: And if you took your car up to the train tracks, and you put it in neutral right on the train tracks, it would start to roll off of the train tracks.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: And the trick was right before you did that, you were supposed to put, like, powder, like talcum powder on your trunk, and then your car would roll off. And then if you look on the back, you would see little handprints in— on the trunk, because it's the ghosts of children who have— 50 years ago on a night just like tonight. Their school bus was hit by a train and they help push your car to safety. I like that one because it's like creepy, but it's also, like, helpful ghosts.
JULIA: Yeah, benevolent ghosts as opposed to trying to push your car onto the train tracks, because they want you to meet the same fate.
JEFFREY: Right.
AMANDA: I want a playmate.
JULIA: We love these nice, beautiful children who are like, "Oh, no. It seems like you're in trouble. Let me help you." So—
JEFFREY: Yeah.
JULIA: That's such a classic one, it's so good. I love hearing ones— like different iterations of the same story are always really, really interesting. I'm actually pretty sure Long Island has a similar story. I will—
JEFFREY: Okay.
JULIA: I'll have to ask my husband later, because I'm pretty sure his dad made them do the, like, on a hill, put it in park, and like slowly, it moves kind of situation, but I'm not entirely sure.
AMANDA: I don't know why so many local urban legends have to do with putting your car in precarious situations, like we had one about, you know, driving under a bridge with your lights off, and it's like fairly narrow, and scary—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —and —and dangerous. Now, I know I'm grown because I'm like, "It seems like children, you know, touching the hot stove of death and then pulling backward." But I don't think any of these 16 to 20-year-olds should be driving under these circumstances.
JULIA: Probably not, probably not. But, you know, when you're 16 to 20 years old, you think you're gonna live forever, so—
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: —that's why you do these things.
JEFFREY: Yeah.
JULIA: So speaking of thinking that we're going to live forever and doing things that are probably not advisable, I do have a quick anecdote before we go into our urban legends episodes.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: I might have bought a haunted painting.
JEFFREY: Nice.
AMANDA: Oh, good. Now, Julia, this may be a reasonable conclusion for our listeners to come to, but I've been to many flea market with you, and you are drawn to the creepiest shit. Baby dolls that look terrible, tiny chairs, old, like, lamps that look like, you know, fisherman's wife would be holding them, waiting for him on the dock, and never coming.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And of course, creepy ass paintings. So what makes this one in particular, even potentially more haunted than usual for you?
JULIA: Amanda, I'm drawn to those things, but I don't often buy them. But this time, we were in our local antique mall, as we usually do on Sundays. We just kind of browse and try to find the weirdest or creepiest things. And we went into a booth, and I looked at a painting, and I was like, "Oh, my god, Jake," my husband," what do you think of that one?" Like— being like," That's a really creepy painting. Like, I'm sure like Jake will also get a kick out of that, because he likes creepy things, too. And he's like, "I really like that." I'm like, "Oh. I mean, I also kind of really like it. It's creepy, but I like it." And he's like, "We should get it. How much is it?" I was like," I don't know," because it's like— it was really high up on a shelf, and neither of us could reach it, so we had to, like, get a guy to bring a stepstool and bring it down. And as he was bringing it down, he's like, "Oh, there's two of them." I'm like, "Oh, no, there's two of them." And they were, like, basically the same painting but reversed, so like they should have, like, got on, like, one wall, I think in the middle and then another wall.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: But I was like, "I don't want to buy both of these creepy paintings. I feel like I'm going to open a portal to something if I— if I do that." But it's like— it's of a very dark ship, and like very dark figures on the bow of the ship, and they're like looking out towards you. And it's a— like, I will take a picture and I'll post it on the Patreon so that people can see what this painting looks like. It's very creepy. But the guy brought it down, and he's like, "Oh, yeah. It's like $25." And Jake's like, "Well, we're buying it." I'm like, "Do you get any, like, vibes off of this?" He's like, "No, I don't think so." And I'm like, "Hmm. Well, it does match our aesthetic in the house," so we bought it.
AMANDA: I love that.
JULIA: And now, I'm like very curious to go back and see if that other painting, the matching painting is still there, because I'm like, "What if I did open a portal?" One of my friends just got a new apartment and is, like, decorating their walls and stuff like that. I'm like, "Do you want to open a portal between our houses?" And she was like—
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "—Yes. Yes, I do." I'm like, "Alright." So we have to come back the antique mall next weekend and see if that painting is still there.
AMANDA: See, my instinct, Julia, is you shouldn't separate the pair. As soon as you said that, I was like, "Oh." And so you got both, so that the paintings are not, like, leaning toward each other, causing chaos, trying to find their mate again, right?
JULIA: Well, Amanda, you probably should have talked me into buying the secondary one, and I might still go back and buy the secondary one if it's still there, but we'll see.
AMANDA: I think you might have to.
JULIA: I might have to. I might have to do it. Well, thank you for indulging me in my very haunted painting story. It's now— every time you walk from, like, our bedroom into our living room, it's right there, and so I'm like— I get to see it every morning, and be like, "Aw, you're so creepy."
JEFFREY: I love a good spooky item. I'm always averse to buying them, but I'm the same as you, Julia. I really am drawn to, like, weird art, creepy art. I like old paintings where people's faces look not quite right.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: And that kind of stuff is really fun for a guest bedroom, I think.
JULIA: That's very true.
JEFFREY: Let them deal with it.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Now, Jeffrey, you mentioned you just moved into a new place. Did you do any sensing, any walking through, any red flags for you? How haunted is a place have to be for it not to be worth renting?
JEFFREY: I actually— when I came to tour this apartment, I was trying to just— if you know about New York State apartment shopping, it is— you really have to jump on it if you want it.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: And I was ups— living upstate, and I told the guy, I was like, "Listen, we're all good. Can— can I just sign the contract? Can I come down there on Monday afternoon? I just want to, like, do the walkthrough." He gave me a video, I've seen the photos, everything seemed great. And I said, "I just want to make sure basic stuff like no demons in the ceiling."
JULIA: That's fair.
JEFFREY: You know, like no secret portals, things like that. And, yeah, it's— so far, it feels un-haunted, which is convenient if— if unexciting.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Sometimes you just need like a little flair of haunting where you're like, "Oh, that one spot on the floor is a little creaky whenever I step on it at 3:00 in the morning, but no other time during the day." Like, that's like the appropriate amount of haunting, I feel like, that I can deal with—
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: —and also still pay someone rent for that apartment. As Amanda likes to say, "A souciant [8:04] of haunting would be best."
JEFFREY: Yes.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Jeffrey, as a podcaster, a writer, a performer, co-creator of Welcome to Night Vale, you spent a lot of time on the road and a lot of time in theaters. And so I have curated a few haunted theater—
JEFFREY: Hmm.
AMANDA: —urban legends for you. I hope this is to your liking.
JEFFREY: I'm so excited for this. I was really hoping for haunted theater stories.
JULIA: Oh, excellent.
AMANDA: Incredible. I have a little narrative arc, a little building to my stories today. So we're— we're gonna start with one from Hugo, he/him, and this is titled, "The ghosts of The Orpheum Theatre." So Hugo writes, "Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for making this amazing podcast that has educated me and given me stories to tell my friends and family. Now, I've been sorting through which stories I wanted to tell, because I have quite a few. My family is filled with storytellers and people with gifts, most of which have been passed down to my siblings and me. However, I'll save my dad's encounter with the toilet/ birdcage ghosts, my siblings and I predicting a dog's death, and the talking cows in my grandpa's ranch for another email."
JULIA: Our listeners are such teases. I love that for them.
AMANDA: They really are.
JULIA: They're like, "Yeah, okay, save those stories for another time." We want them desperately. Just send them in.
AMANDA: "Instead, we're going to focus on the downtown of a small city in Idaho." Idaho State, I've never been to. How about each of you?
JULIA: No.
JEFFREY: I live there as a kid in Boise.
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: Nice.
JEFFREY: Yeah. I still have family there, so I've been to Idaho quite a few times. I mean, mostly the Boise area, but— yeah.
AMANDA: Got it.
JULIA: On a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of how haunted of a state it is, what would you say?
JEFFREY: Oh, it's very haunted.
JULIA: Oh, okay. Alright.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JEFFREY: It feels— it feels a little haunted. Like, there's something about— Boise feels kind of old to me in a way that I— I don't expect like western cities to feel old.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: There's something like vaguely spooky about Idaho, and then the— the Panhandle though, the upstate area of Idaho is gorgeous. Like, it is like Everglades sort of— sorry, not ever— yeah, like Evergreens. Tall piney trees and tall rocky hills, and things like that. Not Everglades.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: That's horrifying.
AMANDA: I'm thinking to myself like, "If they got swamps, that's a 10 out of 10 for me right away."
JEFFREY: But, yeah, there's something really spooky about close-cropped rocky land and things like that.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: It's gorgeous, but definitely feels haunted.
AMANDA: Well, let's put our minds in that haunted rocky locales. Hugo continues, "Across from the drugstore and the ice cream shop is a tall, white theater. The stone has been moved to the theater manager's office that marked its founding, which was back in the 1920s. Go ahead and walk up to the box office window a half hour before the doors open to get your ticket, and be sure to say hi to the ceramic monkey holding pride flags with cracks in it, from when the Phantom broke it during closing night of Phantom of The Opera."
JULIA: Ceramic monkey, too creepy, don't like.
AMANDA: Yeah, that can go. "Once you enter the front doors, underneath the lit-up sign proclaiming its name to be the Orpheum, you'll enter a newly remodeled lobby. Above your head hangs a glowing chandelier adorned with porcelain glass roses. If you head over to the concession area to get a pack of frozen Junior Mints from the, obviously, queer kids who man it, and if the theater manager is not backstage or in the light booth, be sure to ask about the ghosts in the theater."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "Sorry to say, but his answer may disappoint you. For all he will say in his booming voice is, 'We can neither confirm nor deny the existence of paranormal activity at the Orpheum Theatre.'"
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Legally.
JEFFREY: Uh-huh.
AMANDA: "However, if you were to be a fly on the wall in rehearsal or in the dressing rooms underneath the stage, you will hear stories exchanged between actors and the crew. The first and most popular is, of course, the little girl. She has been seen on multiple occasions, and while her appearance changes from person to person, the detail that's always the same is that she has a bow in her hair. She mostly runs about the dressing rooms and is often the scapegoat when makeup and props are misplaced or disappear. That or the spirit in the boy's dressing room, but no one ever speaks of him, except to say he's not friendly."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Now, spirits in dressing rooms, spirits backstage, what do we think? Generally, disruptive? Welcome? Do they mean that they're like backstage and one of us? What do we think?
JULIA: I think it's very much like brownie or house spirit rules, where it's like you have to be kind to them, and then they'll be kind to you situation, but otherwise, they're very like mischievous. I don't think that there's a lot of ghosts that are trying to do a murder on to actors. But, Jeffrey, you've been touring quite a bit lately and you're about to leave for another tour as—
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —we speak. Have there been any kind of like backstage supernatural experiences as you've been touring with Night Vale?
JEFFREY: There is a theater in Spokane, Washington, so not far from the Panhandle of Idaho. This is the Bing Crosby Theater in Spokane. And there is a long, very low ceiling to hallway that leads down toward dressing rooms and there is just a dull— I'm just going to call it a moan that comes out of one of the dressing rooms.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Uh-oh.
JEFFREY: It sounds like somebody breathing in a well, is what it sounds like.
AMANDA: Oh, boy,
JULIA: That's horrifying. Stop it.
JEFFREY: And it's all like fluorescent lights. In my memory, it's like drop ceilings sort of long hallway, like it's— it's the type of hallway that if I were in charge of the theater, I would make sure that the— that the fluorescent lights were sort of old and flickering constantly.
AMANDA: Sure, sure. Like, unscrew it slightly. Yeah.
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm. Yeah.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: The thing about theater ghosts, to me, like I— I— I definitely believe in ghosts, although I— I don't know if I believe necessarily in ghosts taking the form of just a normal human that has no body and moves around as an apparition. I think of it as imprints of humanity, the places where people—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JEFFREY: The— the reason why I think there are tons of theater ghosts is because it's a place where people have imprinted over the years.
JULIA: Hmm.
JEFFREY: You know, hundreds of people at a time every single night, night after night. And so— and then you have the people who actually work there, are your stage managers and things like that. So oftentimes, it is like a— a tech crew member that is the ghost if it was somebody—
JULIA: Hmm.
JEFFREY: —who worked there. And so, these are people who are on a— a fucking schedule, man. Like, these are people who are—
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —like, "This goes the same way every night. I do this, then I do this. Here are the union rules. Here's when the curtain goes up." Blah, blah, blah. And so I think those ghosts often are imprints of people who have a way of doing things. So you do need to behave yourself in the theater, you do need to be on time. Like, don't trash the dressing room, y'all. Just— just get out on the stage at 8 o'clock when your show is supposed to start, and the ghost will be happy with that.
JULIA: I think that's a great point that if you're going to incur the wrath of anyone, it should not be the stage manager or one of the people behind the scenes because they will be furious.
JEFFREY: Yes.
AMANDA: Well, guys, it's like you read my mind, eerily and spookily, because next is the stage manager's ghost.
JULIA: Yes.
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "When told about him, people will often repeat the story of how before a show someone asked, 'Hey, who's grandpa is in the audience?" But when they look again they find that the man in the tweed suit is gone. We know him to be a helpful ghost, generally, as one time an employee reported being in the theater alone, they left the vacuum on stage, went off stage, then came back only to find it completely put away with the cord properly coiled." Putting on my former stage manager hat here to say, "A, there's nothing we love more than a properly coiled wire."
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Sure.
AMANDA: "And B, never in my life have I stage managed in tweed, but I should really up my game."
JULIA: I'm sure in like the '40s that was the style to go for, Amanda, so I don't think it's on you.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: I think it's on fashion.
JEFFREY: Yeah, tweed in the '40s is like a sweat suit now, I feel like. Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Right. My, like, utility pants in black and my— yeah, like hooded sweatshirt.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Good stuff. "There is also, of course, the large hat lady. Every sighting I've heard of was after a number had been performed. An actor would look up to the box seating to see her watching. We like to believe she used to be a regular and that was her seat before the theater was temporarily shut down, before reopening to actors around 10 years ago."
JULIA:
AMANDA: Now, I've often been in theater and seen percussionists in the boxes or seen, you know, like a— a crew member waiting to go down. Sometimes in Broadway theaters, they're shut down to, you know, like have different elements of the stagecraft in them. But a box might be the creepiest place to see an audience member you don't expect.
JULIA: Yea— no, I think—
JEFFREY: Yeah.
JULIA: —that's absolutely true, because it's the idea that they can see pretty much the whole audience as well as the stage, and they are in such a prominent position to be seen. That's why like the rich and famous people, like, back in the day would have the box seats, because, one, it gets them away from all the— the plebeians of the— the main set, but also because they were there to be seen.
JEFFREY: We were doing a show recently and I was emceeing the show and intro— intro-ing our musical guests and Cecil and all of that, and I looked down and house left, stage right, I—there was just a guy on the front row and he was older than our regular crowd, like my age, like 40s, right? He was just staring daggers right at me.
AMANDA: Oh.
JEFFREY: I was, you know— and I have some jokes, you did your warm-up act, whatever. And I tried directing jokes at him. You know, you try and make eye contact with individual people from the stage, and nothing changed on his face.
AMANDA: Okay.
JEFFREY: I was getting super creeped out by this person. And then I came back later for another part to introduced Cecil, and he was still there and the st— his face did not change, just like slack-jawed, open-eyed, just staring daggers at me.
JULIA: Hmm.
JEFFREY: I was so creeped out, and after the show, we were talking about this guy, and our musician, John and I were talking about him like, "That guy was freaking me out." And then at the end of the show when I— when— when I came out for my part late in the show, I looked down, and the dude was gone. And so I thought I had imagined him. I thought he was a ghost, something like that. And then—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JEFFREY: —my friend, Symphony who's in the cast, he was like, "Oh, no, I was watching him. He was plowed. That dude was hammered. He was just trying to hold himself together." I was like, "Oh, no. Buddy, don't go so hard."
JULIA: So wasn't you— he was just like, "Don't throw up."?
JEFFREY: Yeah.
JULIA: "Don't throw up."
AMANDA: Yeah. Oh.
JEFFREY: And I think eventually he made his way out to go do just that, But— or maybe—
AMANDA: Maybe not.
JEFFREY: —drunk ghost, who knows?
JULIA: Could've been a drunk ghost. I think more ghosts should be drunk.
JEFFREY: Yeah.
JULIA: That's my hot take of this episode.
AMANDA: Yeah, I'd like float through a distillery back and forth, like what else is the angel share going to? Come on, it's— it's for me. I mean, respectfully, people show up at Night Vale looking like hot ghosts.
JULIA: That's true.
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Like they— they come to the show and may— you know, have all kinds of accouterment and cosplay or just a generally respectfully creepy vibe. And I— I wonder if you have that double-take moment more than one, so people come, you know, dressed very well as skeletons, or ghosts, or creepy folks, generally.
JEFFREY: I'm usually pretty prepared for people to be dressed up or to, you know, to have like a creepy vibe to them. People, you know, dress up as like biblically correct angels or, you know—
AMANDA: Yup.
JEFFREY: —whatever. The faceless, old woman or what have you.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: It's more of when I see people, like, older than me hanging out and it's not like— listen, we welcome all ages to the Night Vale live—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —performance. And as somebody who is in his late 40s, I would say, I'm also a fan of my own show, so like have that. But it does—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —stand out a little bit. And so I definitely saw an—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JEFFREY: I saw an older couple not there with kids. Like, we're talking like in— in their 70s at the show—
JULIA: Aw.
JEFFREY: —kind of sitting down front. And, you know, they're around a bunch of 20 and 30-year-olds, and I was thinking like, "Who are"— because they weren't sitting with anyone that I could tell.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JEFFREY: And I met them after the show, and they're just fans. It was great. But— but—
AMANDA: Incredible.
JEFFREY: —stuff like that will throw me off.
JULIA: Aw. That's so sweet. I was recently at a spooky painting night at a local bar where it's like they got thrifted paintings and there are, like, paint ghosts on them and stuff like that. And so the crowd was very much like people in their, like, late 20s, early 30s for the main part, except for this one woman who was probably in her like mid-70s as well, who was just like rocking like a shirt that had all the slashers on it, and like a little flannel over it, and was just like painting away at the ghost in her painting. And I was like, "Ma'am, I want to be you when I'm older. This is perfect. I love your aesthetic. I like your vibe." I think creepiness knows no age.
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Absolutely. Just to finish Hugo's story here, he says, "Finally, above the main theater, there are two floors of classrooms. One of them is several rooms that are used for voice lessons and smaller theater classes. The top is a scratched dance floor that has windows overlooking downtown. To be honest, he's just a little guy, but accidentally causes mischief, because often the theater manager and his wife will be woken in the middle of the night to a concerned caller, saying that they noticed, quote, 'A boy wearing a newsboy cap walking back and forth in the windows of the top floor of the theater.'
JEFFREY: Whoa.
AMANDA: "The manager or his wife, whoever picks up the phone will sigh and say they know, and it's nothing to worry about, as this is a common occurrence."
JULIA: And they can't even blame it on a production of Newsies, like what are we even doing here?
AMANDA: I know. Those be some very built gay 20-year-olds, yeah, not— not little boys. "There are sometimes other visitors, but they come and go. One thing I know for sure is Ouija boards or anything of the kind are banned from the theater, as actors and old wiring caused enough problems as it is. That's all for now folks, the Moth King, Hugo."
JEFFREY: Hmm. King of moths.
JULIA: I love the fact that there's so many hauntings. They're not just the one. I feel like a lot of places you're like, "Yeah, we have one ghost, maybe two." They're rocking like a bunch, and that's— that's impressive.
JEFFREY: When there's multiple ghosts in a— in a venue, I sort of wonder like, are— is it like a roommate situation?
AMANDA: Hmm.
JEFFREY: Like, are these people who— you know, somebody—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —died in that theater in 1831 and then somebody else in, like, 1883 or something? And so it is like a— like a kind of a strange dynamic where your roommate is like 50 years older than you and— but, yeah, I— I'm just curious as to, like, whether or not the ghosts live independently of each other, or if they collaborate in some—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —form or fashion? Do they live in separate planes of time and space?
JULIA: I want to give a quick shout-out to BBC's Ghosts, which is now in its final season, but that is exactly what the premise of the show is.
JEFFREY: Okay.
JULIA: It's fantastic.
JEFFREY: Okay, great.
JULIA: I would highly recommend checking it out. It's— it's a really good show.
AMANDA: Because of the actor and writer strikes, NBC— or CBS. CBS recently started, like, promoting that that is on their streaming service, because they have the US version of the show. And I was like—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —"God, what's next?" Like, this is— they're— they're scraping the barrel, they've scraped out Yellowstone. They've scraped out, you know, all of these other streamer exclusives and, like, that's what's left at the bottom, is the, like, BBC streaming rights to Ghosts.
JULIA: It's not bad, though.
AMANDA: Not bad.
JULIA: It's not bad.
AMANDA: I would say that we most often hear about ghosts kind of haunting and occupying separate domains of a building. There might be somebody, you know, upstairs, you know, different in certain areas. But I would really like to think that they would kind of collaborate and level up like a complex move in a video game, you know? Where you have like two different buttons like— and the joystick involved, and then you can sort of ping-pong unsuspecting hauntees between areas of the house. That will be the most fun.
JULIA: Yeah. A real like tag team situation where you're—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —like, "Ah, yes, we get them in this room, and when they run out of that room, then you're waiting there to scare them this way." Well, Amanda, I have a great story about a spooky tunnel at a college, but how about first we go and we grab our refill?
AMANDA: Let's do it.
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AMANDA: Hi, everybody. It's Amanda, welcome to the refill. Thank you so much to our newest patron, Susan for joining. And hey, by the way, if you are the kind of nerd who also likes games of all kinds, especially the games that don't require power, aka, you know, tabletop and card games, I'm going to be along with Julia and Eric Silver of Join the Party and this show at PAX Unplugged this weekend in Philadelphia December 1st to 3rd. We are so excited to be there. Eric is on the panel, but decolonializing games, which is going to be super amazing. And then Eric, Julia, and myself are doing a panel all about making NPCs, non-player characters on the fly. It's going to be improv, it's gonna be fun, and it's gonna be streamed on the Pax 2 Twitch channel. So whether or not you can come in person, check it out, join the Multitude Discord. They have an event set up and everything where you can stream the panel along with everybody else in our free Multitude Discord. So two calls to action, one, if you're in Philly or going to PAX Unplugged, come see us, Multitude has a table right outside the main convention hall, and two, join the Multitude Discord at multitude.productions/community where you can stream our panel along with everybody else. Cool. Cool. Thank you so much to our supporting producer-level patrons, whose support sustains the show and makes it possible for this to be our living, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Arianna, Ginger Spurs Boi, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Nathan, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah and Scott. And our legend-level patrons, AE like Daemon. They didn't say like— like Daemon, but I mean, I did. It's like the AE character together, you know what I mean. Audra, Bea Me Up Scotty, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Morgan H., and Sarah. You can join these illustrious folks at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. And hey, we're running low on urban legends. If you have been waiting to send one in, if you are going home, visiting home, chatting with people, not from home because your home sucks. Sorry. And channel that rage into urban legends, by sending us emails about urban legends that you have heard, experienced, or want to experience. We have some, like, you know, people writing in about things they think could or should have happened. That's also cool. Send us that at spiritspodcast@gmail.com or go to spiritspodcast.com and click contact. This week, I want you to listen to Exolore. If you've ever wondered what life would be like on a planet different from our own, or how writers create your favorite fictional worlds, check it out, it's the best. Dr. Moiya McTier explores fictional worlds by building them with a panel of expert guests. Most recent one is all about building a world with three parents, which I think is amazing. You can find out more about the show at exolorepod.com or search Exolore in your podcast app. And as always, I'm here to recommend something I have read, watched, or listened to recently. And I had the most, like, transporting wonderful, like couldn't put the book down, wanted to, like, cancel all my plans to go spend time with this book reading experience, reading Wifedom by Anna Funder. Now, Anna Funder wrote a wonderful book called Stasiland, about stories from East Germany that I had like heard about, but had never read, now I'm halfway through it because I love it so much. But Wifedom is about Eileen O'Shaughnessy, who was like one of the first women to ever earn a bachelor's degree from Oxford. She was incredibly smart and wonderful, and a writer and a poet, and also married to George Orwell. And this book, Wifedom, is both about Eileen's life and the, like, un-writing and erasing of her that Orwell and others have done in the historical record. And also like a broader kind of meditation on what it means to be a wife, a partner, to be you know, the spouse or partner of a creative person while creative person yourself. It was so fascinating. And if like me, you enjoy either books where like the process of research is really clear. Something like you know, All the President's Men, right? Where you're like reading about what it's like to write a story. This is incredibly good. Or two, if you like books by Maggie Nelson, if you like the kind of intertwining of personal narrative, and uncovering, and unspooling a story, it was exquisite. Like, so good, guys. Check out Wifedom by Anna Funder. And now for our sponsors, first, this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I know this time of the year could come with a lot of pressure. My therapist is on vacation, I'm on vacation, I'm traveling, I'm going all kinds of different places. It's a lot, and it is very, very natural to have some amount of anxiety, or sadness, or like anticipation mixed with dread about all the stuff that this time of year brings or means. Even if you aren't doing some of the things that other people are talking about that are so stressful, not doing them can also be stressful as well. It's incredibly a lot. And I am really grateful that I have the chance to go to therapy, unpack it all, and talk with somebody who is just there to listen to me, to help me find some amount of meaning or peace in the chaos. And I highly, highly recommend that if you are curious about therapy, you take that first step and give it a try. If this is something that you would find beneficial to do online, consider Betterhelp. It's designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. You can also, and this is really, really amazing, switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. So find your bright spot this season with Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com/spirits today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, .com/spirits. And finally, this episode of Spirits is brought to you by Wildgrain, which is, of course, the first ever bake-from-frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, fresh pastas, and artisanal pastries. Now, this was the first really cold day of winter so far in New York City. The temperature is hovering right around freezing, and I had an appointment at therapy early in the morning in Manhattan. So I went in and because of the trains ended up being about half an hour early, and I was like, "God, you know what I'm craving right now? A huge cup of tea and a fresh baked croissant." And I had to go pay, you know, $6 or $7 for a fresh croissant in Manhattan where I was. But I could also, if I had planned ahead, started my morning with a fresh, baked from frozen croissant from Wildgrain. They are my absolute favorite things Wildgrain makes, in addition to the delicious pastas and breads and scones, other things. Listen, it's all good. Croissants are my jam. And you can now fully customize your Wildgrain box. You can get any combination of breads, pastas, and pastries that you like. So if you want a box of all bread, all pasta, all pastries, you can have that. Plus for a limited time, you can get $30 off of the first box, plus free croissants in every box for all the Amandas out there. Not just all the Amandas, all of you, you know what I mean, when you go to wildgrain.com/spirits to start your subscription. You heard me, people, free croissants in every box, and $30 off your first box when you go to wildgrain.com/spirits. That's wildgrain.com/spirits or you can use promo code Spirits at checkout. And now, back to the show.
[theme]
JULIA: Alright, we are back. And Jeffrey, I know that it is kind of the middle of November— towards the end of November as this is coming out, and I know that my cocktail, and mocktail, and general drink choices have been changing as the seasons change. Is there anything that you're enjoying now that the weather is getting a little bit colder and a little bit more, like, cozy in your new apartment, hopefully?
JEFFREY: I've really— I've been on a kick late— lately of like lighter drinks. Not necessarily like in terms of heft, but in terms of like color, right? So I've been more of a—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —white wine person the last year.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: I've been a little bit more of a— like a lager beer—
AMANDA: Nice.
JEFFREY: —person. And that's even extending into the colder weather. I—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —I love making cocktails at home and I found a really great cocktail recipe of an old classic cocktail called The Duchess. It's an equal part cocktail. It's just four—
AMANDA: Ooh.
JEFFREY: —four parts, and it is gin, it is dry curacao, it is dry vermouth, and Sauvignon Blanc or just—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —some kind of like white wine. Nice mix, throw a little orange peel on that, it's stunningly good. And it's also like—
AMANDA: Wow. Ooh.
JEFFREY: —because three of those things are low-ABV. You know, it's just the gin, it's the— just the hard, like, 80-90 proof—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —alcohol in there. It feels actually kind of—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —light in terms of heft, too. It feels so classy. I found a little set of coupe glasses, a little Nick and Norah's, and so I make it in that.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: And it just— yeah, I love it. It's— that's been my— that's been my thing lately, and I think that might last through winter. Although, I might hit middle of January and be like, "You know what? Manhattan season babies. Let's do it."
JULIA: Yeah. No, I love that. That sounds incredible. And I have been really enjoying the kind of, like, low-ABV cocktails myself in terms of like— one, I love a equal measure cocktail, because it's just like always easy to remember—
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —like what are the four ingredients? Add the same amount. We're good to go. But I've been really enjoying like— a local bar near me has been doing a like aperitivo happy hour that they do, which is like all of their low-ABV cocktails are, like, 50% off or something like that. And I'm like, "Oh, these are, like, delicious." And I can have more than one without feeling like I'm about to fall asleep. And that is a real win for me, especially in the dark, dark days of winter.
AMANDA: I love that. I have also been enjoying gin recently. We tried— my friends and I had to go to Angry Orchard's Tap House, which is in the Hudson Valley, and it was near a like apple farm that we went apple picking at—
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —back in October. And there was like a line down the street. It was like the most hoppin' destination I've ever seen. So by default, we ended up going to Hudson Whiskey—
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: —which is a lovely distiller. They are the official whiskey of the Mets.
JULIA: That's true.
AMANDA: Just FYI. And I ordered a gin cocktail with an incredibly delicious, like, very floral tasting gin that they make. I brought a bottle home and I have been enjoying that just over ice with, like, lime, or lemon, or grapefruit, or blood orange, whatever citrus I have on hand. So that's been a very fun way to, you know, keep those flavors going into the— the darker months of the year.
JULIA: I love that.
JEFFREY: The— I meet so many people who do not like gin, and I always tell them like find a local distill— oh, they're— they're everywhere. They're all over the country, because gin isn't that hard to make, but it's typically like—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —an Uncle Tom or bathtub gin that a lot of these local distilleries make, because it's just infusing vodka with juniper and other herbals, and—
AMANDA: Stuff.
JEFFREY: —and— yeah. And that type of gin— like the Hudson gin, there's a— there's great distilleries up near where I used to live. Like in Accord, there's like Arrowood Distillery makes a gin I really love, but you get all these different flavors.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: Like you said, Amanda, that— that type of thing is really great with soda and a lime. Like, that's a light drink, and it's so much better—
AMANDA & JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —than like the really, really dry London gins.
JULIA: Yes. I think the more floral and botanical the gin, the better.
JEFFREY: Hmm.
JULIA: I think Hendrick's does some really interesting varieties, like their Neptunia is one of my favorite, like, just like sipping gins and—
AMANDA: And they have really good distribution. So if you— if you're like not sure where to start, and you see in a liquor store, and like you see like a small, cute, little bottle, like give it a go.
JULIA: Exactly. And then the only other one that I like really, really like is Dogfish Head, actually, which is primarily a brewery, also makes occasionally their own types of gin and stuff like that. And they had this Whole Leaf Gin, that was like the best tasting gin I've ever had in my life. It was so good. And now that my mother-in-law has moved out of Delaware, I don't get the opportunity to go down there and buy a bottle every now and again. So I've been a little bit mourning that, recently.
AMANDA: Well, they do host live events in their Delaware tap room. So here's what needs to happen, is Night Vale has to tour at the Dogfish Head tap room, Spirits has to open for you, and gins on us.
JEFFREY: Down.
JULIA: Gins on us, everyone. Gins on us. Alright. I have a story, Amanda, that is a logical explanation story which if—
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: —people who are listening to this episode have not heard of our logical explanation ones, it is a urban legend where it's like something spooky is going on, but eventually we find out the logical explanation to that spookiness. So, this comes from Alyssa, she/her, and she writes, "Hi, I'm a longtime listener, a new patron, and I've been catching up on the backlog of bonus urban legends episodes and was inspired to finally share this little story with you. The dead body tunnel."
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: "When I was a sophomore in college, the dorm I lived in was a converted old castle." Pause for effect.
AMANDA: Tell me you went to a small liberal arts school without telling me you went to a small liberal arts school. Love it.
JULIA: "From what I understand, this building was based off of some actual castle in Europe, but the guy who had it built just made a drawing from the outside and then just had the building made based on the drawing. Due to this, the castle—"
AMANDA: Oh, my God.
JULIA: "— does not make a lot of architectural sense. You had to go up sets of stairs to go downstairs in some places. There were staircases that led to nowhere, and the dorm rooms were all kinds of weird shapes."
AMANDA: Oh, my God.
JULIA: "My friend and I were fascinated by this building and spent many nights exploring and attempting to gain access to the rooftop." Which is a real college thing to do. I feel like it's like, "How do I get to the highest place and probably the most dangerous place in this building for me, a teenager? "
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: "So we had heard from some upperclassmen that there was a crawlspace under the castle that would lead to a hole in the floor of a storage closet that had a backdoor into a staircase to one of the parapets." Very roundabout, but basically like this is how we get upstairs, is we have to crawl and then come up through a hole in a storage closet in order to get to a staircase that will lead to a place that we probably shouldn't be.
AMANDA: So good. NYU had a similar building, the main like conglomerate for the just, like, liberal arts school, was three buildings on the same block that had just been, like, mushed together. So the fourth floor of one building was the fifth floor of another, and there were a lot of like half staircases and fire doors leading between them. And only, like, two elevators for the whole building, which was eight or nine storeys tall. So you would kind of like catch as catch can, like take the elevator that was closest to you or was letting people on, and then try to sort of find your way through. Only a few months into having a class there, did I also learn it was a site of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire.
JEFFREY: Whoa.
JULIA: Woo.
AMANDA: So lots of radicalized pro-labor ghosts there, which that was jarring when you don't know about it.
JULIA: What a reveal for yourself. What a jumpscare for yourself.
AMANDA: Yeah, it was.
JULIA: Alright. So Alyssa continues. "One night, four or five of us, I can't remember exactly, went to look for this crawlspace. We found the entrance in a storage shed-type room in the courtyard. The room was full of a bunch of old junk and had mild spooky vibes. We located the hole in the floor and proceeded to climb down. As we were slowly making our way through the tunnel, we saw what looked like a shadowy figure up ahead. It looks like a person sitting kind of hunched over in the dark." Which terrifying, makes me think of all of the horror movies where you're like something is like eating a person and it's like hunched over—
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —like an animal, you know?
AMANDA: Hmm.
JEFFREY: Ugh.
JULIA: You can only see the back of them. I don't like that. "Naturally, we freaked out and quickly backed out of the crawlspace. We tried to call one of the upperclassmen who had used this path before, but she said she had never seen anything spooky down there. This made us freak out even more. Was it a dead body? Was it a zombie? Still, we desperately wanted access to that roof, so we grabbed a long piece of metal and said, 'Let's go poke at it with a stick.'"
JEFFREY: This is how you die in a 1980's horror film.
JULIA: I do want to say in parentheses the next line is (don't yell at me, I know this was a bad idea.).
JEFFREY: Yup.
JULIA: So at least in hindsight, you understand that it was not a good idea.
AMANDA: I'm not going to add insult to injury. That does make me think, though, again, some primal part of my brain having read and listened to lots of these stories, things that you should use wood and not metal because it conducts less well.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: And something about whether it's electricity or spiritual energy, just some part of my brain is telling you that like a natural material is going to be better for you.
JEFFREY: Yeah.
JULIA: I think you're right, Amanda. You're on the money there.
JEFFREY: And if it's a vampire, you got the wood, so that's good. Sharp wood.
AMANDA: Stick it at a 10-foot remove. [40:27]
JULIA: "So we reasoned that if it doesn't move, then it's safe to go closer. So we went back down, armed with our poker, and did just that. Turns out it was a mannequin that the theater group, the previously mentioned upperclassmen was in, and had placed down there to scare unsuspecting new visitors." That's such a mean prank. That's so terrifying. I hate that so much.
JEFFREY: It's almost scarier to me, though, the idea that a mannequin would be possessed than if there was like a zombie, or ghost, or something, like inanimate objects suddenly—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JEFFREY: I mean, that's— I was gonna say clearly, but likely not the case here.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: Mannequins are creepy, super creepy.
JULIA: The thing is, too, is I can, hypothetically, kill a zombie. I could hypothetically kill a vampire.
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: I don't know how I would hypothetically destroy a possessed mannequin.
JEFFREY: No.
JULIA: Unless it's Chucky rules and, like, you know, it being in the mannequin body for longer, it turns slowly to human. Like, you could just shoot Chucky. Sorry, we watched Bride of Chucky last night, so I was— I'm thinking a lot about the rules of Chucky.
AMANDA: I think I also saw that— that first episode of A New Era of Doctor Who at just the right time, where I'll— I'll never not sort of expect the mannequin heads to, like, turn and look at me, so that— that definitely would be effectively creepy for me.
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Yeah, that's— that is totally fair. So Alyssa finishes with, "We all had a good laugh about it, and then proceeded on to find the hole in that storage closet, and up onto the parapet." So they just kept going, so like shout-out to them for being very dedicated to their mission. "We nicknamed the crawlspace 'The dead body tunnel' and continue to use it for several months. Eventually, we found a key to that storage closet and were able to bypass the crawlspace for faster access to the roof, which we use for the remainder of the time that we lived on campus." How did you find the key—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —to that storage closet is my question.
AMANDA: I know. I'm like, "Was this the 1920s also, and— and also in Boise?" Like, damn.
JULIA: Wow. "I hope you enjoyed my story. I love the podcast and I've recommended it to many others. I'm writing this right after your Black Cat episode, so I attached a photo of my newly acquired son named Bat." So there's a adorable photo of a black cat now in our inbox, and I'm living the dream here. "Stay creepy, stay cool, Alyssa."
JEFFREY: Done and done. I will do both.
JULIA: Done and done. It's a very cute cat. He's got a little bit of a cross-eye situation going on here, and he's extremely cute.
AMANDA: Absolute sweetie. Well, I have the perfect urban legend to wrap up our episode here, because it takes place both in the theater and a university. This time in the city of New Orleans, which I know you've had the pleasure of visiting and performing. And Jeffrey, how has your New Orleans experience stacked up to its very creepy promise?
JEFFREY: New Orleans, famously an un-haunted city, entirely.
JULIA: Famously so.
AMANDA: Yes, never a haunting.
JEFFREY: Yeah.
JULIA: Nothing bad has ever happened there. It's a wonderful utopia of a city.
JEFFREY: I love New Orleans. It's really fun to go down there. It's been quite a few years since I have been on the tour that's gone through New Orleans. But the— the first couple years, we're touring, we— we just had weird experiences. Not— it had nothing to do with haunting. You know, we— we—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —we did a show in a very tiny theater that was super unprepared for our very complex show of somebody standing and a microphone. And— and we— we did another show at the Civic Theater, which is kind of, you know, a really— you know, it's in downtown, so it's kind of— there's a funny point where you cross the— the trolley tracks, the streetcar tracks, and then suddenly, you're just not in the fun part. You're just in the downtown part. And— but it's— it's beautiful. The Civic is a gorgeous theater, but we were there on a weekend, and we absolutely saw people that were so getting down in the backroom—
AMANDA: Oh!
JEFFREY: —of the theater.
JULIA: Wow.
JEFFREY: And it was very strange. I don't know if they were our audience members, but either way, good on you both. So— yeah.
JULIA: You know, there's just something about Cecil's voice that like—
JEFFREY: Yeah.
JULIA: —turns people on.
JEFFREY: Gets people hornt [44:31] up, I guess. I don't know.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: I mean, that we know, but damn. That's—
JEFFREY: Yeah. So New Orleans has been strange from our touring point of view, but yeah, no hauntings that I've run into yet.
AMANDA: I wonder how this environment, what I'm about to describe, strikes you both. "Loyola University," writes our conspirator Davis, "has many haunts, but the scariest ones are the ghosts of Marquette Hall."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "Marquette Hall was built in 1910 and is the face of Loyola's campus, facing St. Charles Avenue, and one of the very first buildings that students see coming into the university. Out front is a huge lawn and on it is a statue of Jesus whose shadow projects onto the school at night." It is a Catholic University.
JEFFREY: Uh-huh.
JULIA: Yeah, it's a Jesuit university. I almost went to the Baltimore one, so I know a little bit about Loyola where I'm like, "Okay. Yeah, yeah. Of course, there's Jesus there. That makes sense."
AMANDA: "Now, this building also houses the Marquette Theater, and used to be home to our school's theater department. What they don't tell people is that the Marquette Theater used to be the autopsy theater for the dental school."
JEFFREY: Whoa.
JULIA: Wait, hold on. I have a quick question.
AMANDA: Uh-huh.
JULIA: Why are we— why are we doing autopsies at dental school?
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm. That was my question. Yeah.
JULIA: You just need teeth. You don't need the rest of it. It's just the teeth part.
AMANDA: Well, Julia, teeth is bones—
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —as we know. I don't think that's true anatomically. You know what I mean? And I think until— until fairly recently— this was established in 1910. I— I don't think that dentistry had a high survival rate, and so much like anatomy and medical students of physiology, I think that, you know, cadavers are helpful in understanding jaws. I— I don't really know.
JEFFREY: Okay, yeah.
JULIA: I mean, like, I guess you don't need a full body— well, maybe like—
AMANDA: Well, dentists can use it first, and then down to the medical students, you know, later per— perhaps.
JEFFREY: It feels like now that it's— the body is already dead, you could just take the head off.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: That's what I was thinking, Jeffrey.
JEFFREY: Save on real estate for the dental operating theater.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JEFFREY: And then send the rest of the body to the standard operating theater.
JULIA: I guess if someone is dying from, like, a tooth disease, right? Like that probably has to spread throughout the body and send it off to [46:53]
AMANDA: Cut it off, save the rest?
JULIA: No, but I'm saying, like, you know, is it also— do you need to see what your fucked up teeth do to your heart, you know?
JEFFREY: Yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: That— that is real. That is— that is a real thing. I was gonna make a joke about like, "Yeah, there's no, like, holistic dentistry practices."
JULIA: Oh, no, there are.
AMANDA: A, those really exist, and B, teeth relate to the rest of your body, so like—
JEFFREY: Yeah.
AMANDA: —that's— that's true.
JEFFREY: Yeah.
AMANDA: I did just think to myself, "Huh. I wonder technically what the etymology of the word theater is, because we do refer to an operating theater, that's— that's like a phrase."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Of course, it is in English from French, an open-air place in ancient times for viewing spectacles and plays. A spectacle of any other name.
JULIA: There's nothing more spectacular than a opened-up body—
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —so you can see all the inside parts.
AMANDA: But I'm glad, Jeffrey, you mentioned real estate because, "The body is used for the autopsy were kept on the fifth floor of the building and will be carted down to the theater using a pulley system. Students who attended Loyola at the time claimed to have seen bodies being moved many times as well as some body parts flinging off the cart."
JEFFREY: Uh-huh.
JULIA: Cool. Cool. Yeah, that seems good and normal and respectful of those dead people.
AMANDA: Yeah. I also— I don't know why you— we'd store the bodies high in the air and not, you know, in like a somewhat climate controlled cellar.
JULIA: Yeah. I was gonna say something with refrigeration, but that doesn't—
JEFFREY: Yeah.
JULIA: —that doesn't make sense.
AMANDA: This is New Orleans, yeah.
JULIA: Oh, but New Orleans is also famous for having a lot of, like, above-ground graves, because of, I think, flooding—
JEFFREY: Yes.
AMANDA: Oh, yes.
JULIA: —or something like that. So maybe that's why they didn't want to store bodies in basements because it really wasn't an option at the time.
JEFFREY: Yeah. That would make total sense.
AMANDA: Yeah. This is also high— kind of grave robbing and, you know, people— entrepreneurs finding bodies to sell to schools time, so maybe—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —it was more secure up there. "So the School of Dentistry was organized in 1914, with Dr. C. Victor Vignes as the first dean."
JULIA: Cool name.
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "The first classes were indeed held in Marquette Hall, and it wasn't until 1924 that the school was moved to another building. School of Dentistry since then has moved to Louisiana State University. First class graduated from there in 1972."
JULIA: Okay, okay.
AMANDA: Thanks. "After the School of Dentistry left, the theater department eventually moved in. The autopsy theater was converted to a regular theater and the place where they kept the bodies was converted, of course, into a classroom. That classroom was used for years as a voice, and movement, and acting space."
JULIA: It would have been worse if they said dorms. I'm just gonna put that out there. t would have been worse if they said dorms. Imagine you're laying in a bed where they used to have the bodies like—
JEFFREY: Oh, my God.
JULIA: —like that would— that would suck.
AMANDA: That'd be tough. "Now, I never took an acting class there, but when working on a show once, the director asked me to grab something from that classroom. I walked up to the fourth floor and unlocked the door that led upstairs to the fifth. These stairs are steep made of some old wood that's found in some of the less-used spaces around campus. And as I headed up in the darkness, I couldn't find the light switch. Luckily, I had my phone, so I used my phone's flashlight to guide me. The wood creaked as I took each step up to the fifth-floor loft. Now, this place already scared the heck out of me, but as I was grabbing the item I was told to go get, I heard the wood in the back corner of the room thumped and creaked."
JEFFREY: No, you didn't. Uh-uh.
AMANDA: "It happened again."
JULIA: Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Uh-uh.
AMANDA: "And then a third time."
JEFFREY: Nope.
AMANDA: "I bolted out of that room and have not set foot there since."
JEFFREY: Incredible plan.
JULIA: Correct. Good choice. Good choice.
JEFFREY: That's an incredible plan, to be like, "Nope, absolutely not. Goodbye."
AMANDA: Nope-ing out of there is always appropriate.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Just get the fuck out of there.
AMANDA: "Now, students other than me have claimed to hear all sorts of noises, but one stage manager I worked with claimed to have seen and heard a man when she was locking up for the night. She was cleaning up the stage and set out the ghost light, of course, when she heard a thump coming from the lighting area. She looked up and saw a shadowy figure standing in the booth. But when she later went to check it out, nobody was there."
JEFFREY: Hmm.
JULIA: Classic.
AMANDA: And that is sent in from Davis.
JULIA: Well, Davis, thank you so much. That is wonderful and horrifying, and I appreciate that I get to hear all about it.
JEFFREY: I think that's the scariest thing to me like in— like horror movies, but also just like when it gets into my head when I hear noises. Like, the idea that something or someone is in the space with me. Like, that's where it gets really spooky. And, like, I'm just thinking here of the short film Lights Out, right? Like, just the notion that—
JULIA: Hmm.
JEFFREY: —something is like creeping close. Even those, like, really adorable cat videos, where somebody has the camera behind the wall, and they pan over, and the cat's a certain distance back— behind the wall, closer—
AMANDA: So good.
JEFFREY: — [51:31] closer. And—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
JEFFREY: —those videos scare me. Like, they actually, like, really freak me out. Yeah, that notion— so, yeah, hearing thumps in the room with you, absolutely not. Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, like there is something about our, like, animal hindbrain that we were prey at some point.
JEFFREY: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And so the idea of something that is stalking ever closer to us that is better at hiding, that's gonna get us—
JEFFREY: Yeah.
JULIA: —is— is very scary. Even if it is like an adorable little cat who, you know, is not going to be able to, like, really kill you and you're like, "Okay, this is fine. You think I'm prey, but I'm not. I'm the— I'm the predator here."
AMANDA: Well, Jeffrey, as you embark on your next leg of tour, please keep us posted if you run into any hauntings. I hope that any hauntings you run into are a part of the wonderful stagecraft of Welcome to Night Vale live. But could you let folks know where they can follow along with you and the latest in your life and work online?
JEFFREY: Sure. You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Bluesky, whatever @happierman, and yeah, I'm still doing Welcome to Night Vale. We have a new season of our LA noire detective series Unlicensed coming out next year sometime, which I'm very excited for. And— yeah, and Cecil and I are still doing our Random Horror No. 9 Podcast, which has been a lot of fun. I don't know what episodes will be out when this episode comes out, but yeah, we do horror movies in a random order. So if spooky season goes all year for you, that's— that's a good one to check out as well.
AMANDA: We have a lot of overlap.
JULIA: That is true. I— one of my favorite shows. Jeffrey, thank you again so much for joining us. And to our conspirators, if you hear something creaking in the corner, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
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