Episode 345: Your Hometown Urban Legends LXXX - Crocs on Rocks (with Niki Grayson)
/Crocs on rocks! We’re joined by Niki Grayson to explore your urban legends: a shapeshifting, Crocs loving tanuki, and the fae teaching a baby Calculus.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of animal death, murder, mental illness, animal injury, nudity, death, child death, and car accidents.
Guest
Niki Grayson is a brand manager, community builder, and content creator. They are one of the hosts of If You’re Driving, Close Your Eyes.
Housekeeping
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Transcript
JULIA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Julia.
ERIC: And I'm Eric.
JULIA: And we are joined this week by Niki Grayson, co-host of If You're Driving, Close Your Eyes a comedy podcast. Niki, welcome.
NIKI: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so amped to be here.
JULIA: We are so pleased and you're going to be joining us for an urban legends episodes which is—
NIKI: Hell yeah.
JULIA: —personally one of my favorites because I love reading other people's creepy experiences. I would prefer not to experience creepy things. But for people who have experienced them, always good time.
ERIC: Yeah. Have do—do you have any particularly creepy stories that have happened to you at all growing up Niki? Are you—are you from— I know you're in California now. Did you grow up there as well?
NIKI: I did grew up here born and raised in Los Angeles. My creepiest like it's not— it's just kind of like it's a scary story to tell in the dark if it's if the dark is like camping.
JULIA: Nice.
NIKI: One time I was in cabin on like an outdoor ed-like camping trip with my like middle school. I was in like, or maybe I was in like the 9th grade somewhere in there like 8th-9th grade. And I was in— we were in the cabin and it was just like all of the— all the boys were like in the single cabin. And like I had a top bunk at the wall—
JULIA: Okay.
NIKI: —and I just like heard a bunch of like skittering in the wall, which was like—
ERIC: No good.
NIKI: —like an absolute fundamental to me, like that's not—you can't do that. Like, you're just not actually allowed to, like have to make noises inside of the wall. So I was like, at first for the first like, 15 minutes I was like maybe I'm done. Like maybe —maybe like because— because nobody else. Cause nobody else could hear it.
ERIC: Strong opener.
NIKI: Yeah, I started there. It was like this—there's the only had— the only options are I might be dying because nobody else could hear it. And then I had to convince someone to get in the like, I got out of the bed, I convinced somebody to get in the bed. And I just like stood there in the dark, looking up at him being like, do you hear anything? And he was like, no, I don't hear. And then he heard the skitter and he was like, ah, yeah, that's fucked.
JULIA: Oh, yeah. That blows man later.
NIKI: Yeah, it sucks. Yeah. And then he left and was like, you figure it out. So I slept on the floor that night. The next morning, we found a bunch of dead bats.
ERIC: Ohhh.
NIKI: Like had like, there was some sort of conflict between a bat and some sort of animal that occurred inside of the wall.
JULIA: Wow.
NIKI: And the aftermath was just outside of it, outside of the wall when we came out of the cabin the following morning.
ERIC: Wow.
NIKI: So I didn't really get any—any sleep that week.
ERIC: Yeah.
NIKI: It was pretty unpleasant.
JULIA: I was gonna ask like what kind of cabin it was. Because a lot of times when you're talking about like summer camp cabins—
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: —they don't have insulated walls.
NIKI: Correct.
JULIA: So whatever—I assumed that whatever was outside scratching at the wall was like, just outside of the wall, just outside of the cabin and that could be anything. That could be a wolf, that could be a bear. That could be literally anything.
NIKI: You got anything?
JULIA: They could be a frickin Bigfoot.
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: You don't know, you don't know, it's the middle of the night.
NIKI: You don't know, yeah, but those guys were in the wall.
JULIA: Oh, yeah.
ERIC: That's wild.
JULIA: That's not good.
ERIC: We do have a running thing where we sometimes have listeners write in where they're like, maybe I am the spooky situation. And I do obviously you are experiencing something spooky. But I do like the idea of like, saw another camper looking over and you just looking up, whispering to your friend who they might not see them just going like looking at the dark like, do you hear it? Do you hear it? Which could also be their story—
NIKI: In the walls.
ERIC: —that they could be telling on a podcast one day—
NIKI: Uh-huh.
ERIC: —like one time a kid was just like—
NIKI: Absolutely.
ERIC: —in our cabins, weirdly chanting, do you hear it?
JULIA: Standing in the middle of the room. So you might—yeah that kid might be telling the story now and being like, yeah, this person was just super weird—
NIKI: I hope so.
JULIA: —and was standing in the middle of the room and was like saying that they heard like creepy noise and like, I don't know, but they seemed really creepy at the time, so.
NIKI: Alright we— I was probably.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: I was unhappy and it was gross.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah, I don't blame you.
NIKI: It's so rude that they made a bunch of like middle schoolers go camping in Los Angeles in September, like the hottest month—
ERIC: Hot.
NIKI: —of the year.
JULIA: Yeah, that—that's a nightmare.
NIKI: It's just like— it's just like cruel. It's just like, I didn't actually know why you would do that or why you as an adult would want to be around children.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: That's a good point.
NIKI: At that time. That just—this doesn't did make any sense, but they did it.
JULIA: Nothing worse than a bunch of horny teens in the middle of a hot, hot day in a cabin.
NIKI: Nothing worse.
JULIA: Nothing worse.
ERIC: Terrible.
NIKI: Nothing worse.
ERIC: Well that amazingly leads in pretty well to the first story I've picked which is titled The Crocs Man.
JULIA: Incredible.
ERIC: And is about family hanging out in a cabin.
JULIA: Okay.
ERIC: This—this man is—
JULIA: Let's do it.
ERIC: —is something else.
NIKI: Yeaaah.
ERIC: As we'll get into towards the end of the story. So this comes to us from a Salla she/her and she writes, “Hello, longtime listener, first-time submitter of a spooky tale. I've been meaning to write this silly and a little spooky tale for the longest time. This little incident is what helped me understand the good ol, I know what I heard.”
JULIA: Well, that's perfect for you Niki, look at that.
NIKI: Right? That's perfect for me.
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: “Until this incident, I was a little bit sad and a lot thankful for not having anything to contribute to these tales, I was conflicted. But finally, something small and a little spooky happened in my life.”
JULIA: Alright.
ERIC: “It was a summer's night at our family cabin in Finland, (a very common thing here).” I would imagine.
JULIA: Little bit different from Los Angeles in September.
ERIC: Yes. Little that—that is the major difference between Finland and Los Angeles—
NIKI: Yeah, little difference.
ERIC: —pretty, pretty different.
NIKI: That is going to be huge difference. Yeah. So far.
ERIC: “We'd spent the whole day in the sun. And in the evening, me and my sister were adoring the moon and its bridge across the lake. We call the reflected path of the moon on the water, the moons bridge. In case that doesn't translate”
JULIA: We got that Finnish translation thing.
NIKI: There it is.
ERIC: “It was the full moon and the whole night sky was very light. The eerie almost black-and-white light casting long blue shadows, no flashlights needed. Usually during the night when we have to use the bathroom as sisters, (there's three of us) wake each other up and all go together.” Now that's—okay, I guess like you want to stick together.
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: —but also like how it like would that be if your siblings just like come on I gotta pee, you're coming with me.
NIKI: Extremely.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah, I would be ve—I'm an only child, so that helps. But like, I would be extremely pissed if someone like came— woke me up in the middle of the night. Let's say my husband woke me up in the middle of the night was like, Julia, Julia, I have to go outside and pee. And I would be like, why are you waking me up for that?
NIKI: Gosh.
ERIC: That's your problem.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: Also, if all three of them go, then they all three could get got.
ERIC: That's true.
NIKI: By a bear or whatever in the woods.
JULIA: I like this theory, though. Because three seems like the perfect number, where one person is in the bathroom which means the other people who aren't in the bathroom aren't left alone. Like if there was just two of them I would worry that I would come out of the bathroom and the other person would be gone, you know?
NIKI: That's so smart. Would be gone.
JULIA: [7:50]
NIKI: But what if they're both gone?
JULIA: Oh, then you're—you're fucked. You just fucked.
ERIC: Maybe it's like you lose one at that— the one gets to get back to cavalry like the other two have gone missing. I mean I—yeah.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: Yes.
JULIA: I would just assume you murdered both of them if that was the case.
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: Like if we were like all three of us sisters went to the bathroom, and I'm the only one that returned. I'm like you killed those kids.
NIKI: Ignore the knife—
ERIC: Yeah.
NIKI: —please, and thank you.
JULIA: And the blood stain. And the blood stains across my dress, don't worry about it.
ERIC: All good, everything's fine here. So Salla continues, “we would especially do this going with three— all three of them. If they have been watching anything spooky or been gazing at the full moon for too long. You might wonder why we—why we needed a friend to go pee in the first place." Well, we sure did. "It's because we have an outhouse and it's a bit far out from the cabin. And there's nothing quite as spooky as a narrow flashlight re-flicking around the woody path.”
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: That's true.
ERIC: “So when I go out to pee, my sister was eager to join me. Thankfully, I've been hardened by depression. Whoo. So I don't get spooked too easily these days.”
JULIA: Have you guys seen those videos of like, it's like a cat owner, and like they get up and they're like, oh, I have to— I have to go pee and then they pan to the cat and the cat goes, no, we have to go pee. Cat always follows him to the bathroom.
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah, that's how I'm feeling here, that's the vibe.
ERIC: “Note that it was a bit nippy so we were fully awake by the time we got to the outhouse. And I can see my sister being a little freaked out by the dark, so she comes inside with me. A moment goes by and I hear someone walking to the outhouse, assuming it's my mom, and I say, oh, the whole gang is here. To which my sister goes, what, no one comes in and we hear nothing. I see her not having heard anything, and I'm start getting scared about what I said. And I said nothing, I'm probably just sleepy and confused, knowing full well that I wasn't. She asked me to tell her and I insisted on not talking about it more since that would mean she'd be scared all night.” Which is very kind of her, but also there might be someone getting you.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: That's really kind. Yeah, it's like— that's telling someone about a door and then they're like what door? And you're like the door is not there anymore.
JULIA: You know what, there's no door.
ERIC: Don't worry about the door.
NIKI: Don't worry about the door.
JULIA: Eric, I feel like we need to give Niki a primer on Team ignorant.
ERIC: Yes.
JULIA: And as the chief of Team Ignorant I believe that's your position, so.
ERIC: So we have— we have a ongoing debate between me Julia and our other co-host Amanda about whether or not you should be team ignorant or team what does your—
JULIA: Investigate.
ERIC: — team investigate. In which like, if you— not if you like see something, but like, if you sense something bad, what the correct thing is to do?
JULIA: Yeah. If you were in bed in the middle of the night and you hear a noise, do you turn over and go back to sleep, or do you get up and go look to see what caused that noise?
NIKI: I get up to see what cause it.
JULIA: Team Investigate!
ERIC: See, I'm very much like—
NIKI: Yeah.
ERIC: —until it's like happened a few times, or I feel I am in like about to enter like mortal danger, I'm like, I'm just gonna let this ride out.
NIKI: Sure.
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: There's definitely a point where I—I have agreed that you have to get up and be like, I think someone's breaking into my house.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: Yeah, someones in my house.
ERIC: Yeah. But there's definitely a point where I'm just like, no, I'm— I'm actually good for right now.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: Yeah, I'm good right here.
ERIC: Exactly.
NIKI: I'm good right here. I get that. For me, it's like the odds that Barley has gotten up and knocked something over. I live in perpetual fear that the dog has like, knocked over a cabinet onto herself. Or like Metal Gear Solid Snake herself. Like, a box is like fallen on top of her somehow. Like, even if I don't have any boxes. I'm like, that's what— I'm gonna come outside and she's gonna be just like snake and there's gonna be a box on top of her and I'm gonna have to rescue her. So anytime anything happens I'm like, [gasps] and I immediately get up. Even if I know she's in the room with me. That's how thoroughly she's ruined my brain.
ERIC: One of my two dogs Herbie is particularly dumb.
JULIA: He truly is.
ERIC: He broke his leg by jumping off of our second-story balcony.
NIKI: [12:19]
ERIC: [12:19] we had him.
NIKI: Noooo.
ERIC: And he's— he's good, he's good. He's got a bunch of metal rods.
NIKI: Ah, hell yeah, he cyborg.
ERIC: He gets into all kinds of just absolutely dumb things. One time he—we thought he was chewing on a toy because we couldn't see him from the other side of our like coffee table. He was like, right on the other side where you wouldn't see him. And then he like, yelp and we realize he chewed through a—like an extension cord. It's just like this dog does not know how to live in the world.
JULIA: No survival instinct at all.
NIKI: No survival instinct. But it was probably here's the thing, that extension cord was probably so fucking sick.
ERIC: It probably was great.
NIKI: It was ri—it probably felt so good. It was so cool.
ERIC: He really liked it until he really didn't like it anymore. He's uh yeah, he's good now. He's got a weird bowel disease. So he's on like a bunch of steroids. But he's a— he's a lovely, he's a lovely 10-year-old dog. He's doing a good job.
NIKI: Poor baby. He's doing his best.
ERIC: He is— he is doing his best. The funniest thing that he did recently was we were walking and he started limping on the walk. But it wasn't the leg with all the rods in it. So I was like, what—what's happening? Like you— you're fine with this, this leg is good. And I—and I picked up his leg and looked at his paw. An acorn, he had stepped perfectly out an acorn, and he had perfectly wrapped itself around one of his paw pads.
JULIA: Noooo.
ERIC: And I was just like what is happening?
JULIA: Oh boy.
ERIC: Like how could you not—like this was literally two days ago.
NIKI: Oh my goodness.
ERIC: I was just like, what—
JULIA: I think he's cursed.
ERIC: Unbelievable.
NIKI: Incredible.
ERIC: Unbelievable, odd dog.
NIKI: He might be cursed. But that's the—the beautiful thing though is that like if you think about like, you are always there to uncurse your dog.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: To reverse the curse, right?
ERIC: Yes, [14:04]
JULIA: But here's— here's the thing, Eric, I think maybe the ghost that definitely doesn't haunt your house might have—
ERIC: [14:09] ghost on my house
JULIA: —attached himself to your dog. And that's why all these bad things keep happening.
ERIC: Could be, could be.
JULIA: I can't confirm that to be true, but I think it's true.
ERIC: Julia believes my house is haunted, despite no evidence.
JULIA: Eric has left the room, and I was talking to my co-host.
ERIC: Okay.
JULIA: And then on camera, I saw his chair move about like a foot. And I am convinced now. And I've seen like—
ERIC: Woaah.
JULIA: —the door behind him slowly open and close.
NIKI: There's a ghost in there.
JULIA: Lik— like I've seen things. Eric's convinced that it's not true.
NIKI: Eric, it sounds like there's a ghost at your house.
ERIC: Well, we could figure that out later.
JULIA: One day.
ERIC: We'll get back to Salla's thing. We'll figure out my house another time. “We left the outhouse both spooked but determined not to show anything that we were scared at all. Walking calmly and constantly back to the cabin.”
JULIA: I'm just Googling, are there bears in Finland?
ERIC: Oh, there's definitely bears in Finland.
NIKI: That's a huge—that's gonna be a huge Google.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah.
NIKI: That's a—that's a really important one to look up.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: Hey guys, there's bears in Finland. Lots, lots bears in Finland.
NIKI: Losts. There's bears in Finland, that's good to know
ERIC: Bear, yeah. “I couldn't stop thinking about what I had heard, distinct footsteps. A familiar sound of Crocs walking up the gravel path.”
JULIA: Ho—okay, hold on, hold on. I got a question.
NIKI: Okay yeah, I have a couple of question.
ERIC: Hold on, let me—let me— before we get to the question, there's like one more sentence—
JULIA: Okay, okay. Got it.
ERIC: —another— a few more paragraphs. So I will finish this paragraph.
JULIA: Let's do it. Let's do it.
ERIC: “No doubt about it. Not a faint sound, very clear to my—very clear loud to my ears. I wasn't sleepy enough to imagine it surely.”
ERIC: Okay.
JULIA: Okay.
ERIC: There we go. Let's talk about someone wearing Crocs.
NIKI: There's no doubt in my mind.
JULIA: How do you know that they're Crocs? Do Crocs sounds different than other types of shoes?
ERIC: Well they get— they get to this. Before Niki, before Niki goes, I'll read this next sentence. Because the next slide is I feel like does help.
JULIA: Okay, okay.
NIKI: Okay.
JULIA: “Next morning I tell the family about it, and we all laugh about it being so specifically Crocs. You know the light plastic fairly loose, easy to slip on not very spooky shoe.” So like they— I mean I feel like the plastickyness of it does indicate something.
NIKI: They do make a different noise, especially if you're going over non-traditional.
JULIA: I was gonna say this is the woods though.
NIKI: Walking surfaces. Yeah, like rocker wood. Yeah, they're not gonna squeak—
ERIC: Yeah.
NIKI: The way that like I'm kind of think like feeling. But maybe it was a very rocky path on the way to that like to an outhouse. Maybe it was kind of rocky. So maybe—but then this person would have to have so much experience with Crocs.
ERIC: Yeah.
NIKI: On rock.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: Crocs on rock, yeah.
NIKI: —to know.
ERIC: Well, Crocs on rock is probably the title of the episode. So I'm glad we got there.
JULIA: It’s also what the cocktail is gonna be called this episode. Get ready for that.
NIKI: Yeah, it's just— it's incredibly specific. I love it.
JULIA: I certainly don't feel like I could— I can identify like a certain person's like pattern of steps. Like I remember being a kid and being able to recognize like, whether my mom was coming up the stairs versus my dad was coming up the stairs.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: But I don't think I could like tell like what pair of shoes they were wearing at the time. You know what I mean? Like, there's a cadence rather than a texture to it, I suppose.
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: I don't know about this one. While you say you weren't sleepy, I feel like maybe a sleepy brain filled in like made a jump made a leap, and was like those are Crocs.
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: I don't know. Yeah.
NIKI: Those are Crocs, it's gotta be.
ERIC: We're about to dive into to the weirdest part of the story. Surprise. I got this conti—
JULIA: This isn't the weirdest part of the story?!
ERIC: Get ready.
NIKI: Oh, they we're not there yet?
JULIA: Wow.
ERIC: Okay.
ERIC: No, we're not there yet, we're about to be there. “The following morning, we talk and someone jokes about the Croc's ghosts again. And my other sister, not the one who was with me, gets all serious and says not to joke about the Crocs Man. anymore.”
JULIA: What?!
ERIC: “I say hold up. A man? What makes you say that? We never gendered the person following us.”
JULIA: We shouldn't gender are ghosts you know?
ERIC: We shouldn’t until you know.
JULIA: You know, until [18:14] Ghosts. Yeah, not till you know.
ERIC: “She explains that she had a nightmare. In the dream, she woke up in the middle of the night in her bed. The bed is surrounded by windows and there weren't any curtains at the time. She glanced at the door which has a normal size window on it. And behind the door, she sees the silhouette of a man. And she wrote (Scaramouch, Scaramouch)
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: “The man is nude, staring at her.”
JULIA: Nude?!
ERIC: “We asked why this is relevant to the Crocs incident and she said, she was sure that this was the Crocs Man, that he was wearing nothing but Crocs also dripping wet for some reason.”
JULIA: What?!
ERIC: “And like to watch people sleep, a very particular kink perhaps.”
JULIA: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
ERIC: “Alas, the Crocs Man was not joked about anymore.”
NIKI: I hate the Crocs Man.
JULIA: I have a philosophical question. I have a philosophical question for everyone here.
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: If you're wearing Crocs, are you nude?
ERIC: Ohhh.
NIKI: No.
JULIA: No, no.
ERIC: That's one of the— okay, have we ever talked about my—my weird college experience?
JULIA: I mean, we've talked about your weird college experience many times.
NIKI: [19:23]
ERIC: Well, I went— I went— for three years I was in training to be a conservative evangelical pastor. At Bend, a lot of things changed in my life. So—so at one point, it was very common in our dorm, which was three dorms connected. We had community showers, and for some reason, the upperclassmen started staying in this dorm because of like the community aspect of it, because like there was like this—everyone liked getting along there. Had no air conditioning. They had built newer dorms very recently that were much nicer and like upperclassmen will just stay in this building because they're like, we like the community that we've built here. It's very strange.
JULIA: We like the vibe.
NIKI: Yeah.
ERIC: And like a very weird part. There's a lot of weird hobo eroticism half naked abunt, like 18 to 22-year-old Christian men at college, that I cannot quite explain why that's happening. And so we—at one point, there was something that happened that like they instituted a policy where you could only be naked in your own rooms and in the shower area of the bathroom.
JULIA: Okay, I see where this is going.
ERIC: And so once—once that rule got implemented, everyone started to figure it out, what define nudity?
NIKI: Sure.
JULIA: What's the loophole here.
ERIC: And so a lot of people would try to walk to the bathroom with just socks on or Crocs and— and they got in trouble. So —so they would say that that is nude.
NIKI: That is nude.
ERIC: That was based on God's law, so I don't know—
JULIA: Yes.
ERIC: —If we're gonna use God's law here.
JULIA: Well, according to Genesis, you got to cover your genitals and then that's what nudity is. We all know.
NIKI: Yeah, that's a nudity is, it's all there. I know I said that you are not nude if you're wearing shoes, but I do think you are nude if you're wearing shoes.
ERIC: Yeah. It's tough.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: I think you can be nude and wearing socks even honestly.
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: Yeah, there—there has to be—there has to be something like worn above the knees to not be nude.
NIKI: Yeah, above the knee. Yeah.
JULIA: I think it's just if the genitals aren't covered, you're nude. That's what it is, right?
ERIC: That's the easiest—that's the easiest way.
NIKI: That's it. Yeah.
JULIA: Yes. I'm sure our listeners will have a lot to say about what defines nudity. But let's—we'll go under the assumption that this man despite wearing Crocs was in fact nude.
ERIC: Yes. And also— also wet. Also, he was dripping wet—
JULIA: Also wet.
ERIC: —as if he walked out of a lake.
NIKI: Out of the lake, oh.
JULIA: Maybe he just walked out of a community shower.
ERIC: Or it—yeah, it could. Could have been a community shower.
NIKI: Or he came across the moon bridge.
JULIA: Yoooo.
ERIC: That makes—that actually make more sense.
JULIA: Here we go.
ERIC: So they have one more— one more quick paragraph here.
JULIA: Let's go.
ERIC: “Personally, I have a theory about this that I've used to calm my siblings. We have raccoon dogs. No, I'm not saying the raccoons wear Crocs or maybe I am actually. Specifically common raccoon dogs.” Now. I don't know what a raccoon dog is.
JULIA: It's—
NIKI: No, what's a raccoon dog?
JULIA: This is a thing. If you guys know what a Tanuki is in umm—
NIKI: Of course.
ERIC: Yes, we definitely know what a Tanuki is though.
JULIA: A Tanuki is a raccoon dog.
ERIC: We're gamers.
JULIA: Yes. So if you think of—yeah, Tom Nook—
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: —that's a raccoon dog.
ERIC: That’s a raccoon.
JULIA: Here, I'll share a photo in the— in the chat for everyone.
NIKI: Damn, actually get one of these.
ERIC: These look cool.
JULIA: Yeah, but they're cute. They kind of look like um—
NIKI: I love this guy.
JULIA: — like badgers or mongooses a little bit, but like cuter.
NIKI: Yeah.
ERIC: Yeah. He's like a— he's like a serious raccoon. Like a raccoon is a thief, this is a businessman.
JULIA: Yeah, I'm into it.
ERIC: “So the raccoon dogs have spread across Europe with the fur trade. They're related to the Japanese raccoon dogs”
JULIA: There we go.
ERIC: “That you know of as the Tanuki. Similarly to those, my theory is that the shapeshifting and mischievous raccoon dogs are protecting their forests from people by scaring them. So we've been very mindful of our behavior in the forest and the lakeside and made sure not to disturb other species enjoying the same abundance as us. No further incidents have been reported.”
JULIA: I like that, respectful.
ERIC: So this person is saying that a raccoon dog transformed into a —
NIKI: Yeah.
ERIC: —naked wet man wearing Crocs—
JULIA: Sure.
ERIC: —to scare them.
NIKI: The naked [23:33] the Croc Man.
ERIC: So it only makes sense.
NIKI: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah,
JULIA: There's a lot of times where spirits will transform from one form to another and when it's like a human form, they will be naked. And sometimes what in the case of like a Kelpie for example, were did they get the Crocs though? Hey, guys, were—were did the Crocs come from?
NIKI: Where did they get the Crocs, though, and how did they learn about that?
ERIC: Yeah.
NIKI: Maybe it's stole some, maybe someone—maybe a camper left some.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: And then the raccoon dogs were like, yo, this is the— the future of footwear. Do they wear two or four of them?
JULIA: Well, in human form, I would assume two, right? Unless he also had them on his hands. [24:13]
ERIC: That would— that would also be good.
NIKI: On his hands too, because he doesn't know. And also like, also like if they were at the outhouse, it's possible that like, if it's a shared outhouse, shared shower situation, everyone keeps their Crocs over there, put cleanliness.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: So they—they could have been over there, that would make sense.
ERIC: Yeah. I wonder what the raccoon would put in the like holes because I know a lot of people like stylizing the Crocs now.
NIKI: Yeah, withjibbitz?
JULIA: That's what the word is, that's incredible.
NIKI: Yeah, they were called Jibbitz.
JULIA: I love that.
NIKI: J I B B I T Z.
JULIA: With the Z in the end, yes.
NIKI: Jibbitz.
ERIC: The 90s are back. We're putting Zs at the back of words and that's very good.
JULIA: I think it would be like a bunch of like little leaves and like pine trees and stuff like that. I think it'd be very like foresty.
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: And then maybe a moon. Just because we're talking about that moon bridge at the beginning.
NIKI: Yes. Oh yeah, because that's how they got there. When you close your eyes and think about Crocs, what color are they?
ERIC: Ohhh.
JULIA: Bright pink.
ERIC: I was gonna say, like a lime green.
JULIA: It's some form of neon.
NIKI: They're bright orange to me.
JULIA: Yeah, it's gotta be a neon.
NIKI: Yeah, be either like nickel—they're like my fucking couch, this couch in this Airbnb. They're like Nickelodeon orange in my brain.
JULIA: That's awesome.
NIKI: I'm glad that we're all on the same—on the same neon tilt.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: Even though every time I see a croc in the wild and not in the forest, but like a person wearing Crocs, they're usually—
NIKI: A wild crocs.
JULIA: —they're usually like black because a lot of times like—
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: — people who work in kitchens will use them or my husband owns a pair that he uses as his like, I have to go outside but I don't want to put real shoes on shoes, like they just slip into like go, I don't know get the mail or something like that.
NIKI: You gotta get your husband some jibbitz.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. I gotta like bedazzled the shit out of those now.
ERIC: God, I cannot imagine Jake with a jibbitz.
JULIA: Listeners, if you want very funny jibbitz that I will take pictures of on Jake's Crocs, send them to me. You know we have a link in the— on the website, so do it up.
ERIC: Well, that's everything from Salla, so let's go get a refill.
NIKI: Thanks, Salla.
JULIA: Yeah, let's grab a refill.
[theme]
AMANDA: Hey folks, Amanda here and welcome to the refill. Isn't this a fabulous episode? I'm so happy that we get to have guests on our urban legends episode. Thank you first and foremost to our newest patrons, Lizzy, Katrina, and AE, like the AE in Daemon. I know what you know what I mean, fellow Dark Materials readers out there. Thank you so much for choosing to prioritize a independent podcast that really loves, appreciate, and needs your support. We could not make the show without you or without our supporting producer-level patrons. Thank you to Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Brittany, Froody Chick, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Megan Moon, Nathan, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah and Scott. And our legend-level patrons, Arianna, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Morgan, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. 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We have also been recording lots and lots of episodes. And hey, we need your urban legends. So if you've been thinking to yourself oh yeah, I'll send them my urban legend at some point or maybe they're not interested or if we read your urban legend and like many people you said oh haha This reminds me of like my chronic high school ghost. I want to hear about that. Please send us your urban legends. You can either email us directly @spiritspodcast@gmail.com and you can attach photos, do whatever else you want or you can go to spiritspodcast.com and fill out our contact form. We are so stoked, we love getting your emails and it is time to start filling our coffers for the spookiest season. So get them in now spiritspodcast@gmail.com or spiritspodcast.com and click contact. It is always a wonderful and busy time here at Multitude and today. I wanted to remind you that we have a Discord specifically for Multitude listeners. 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In the summertime I'm taking two, maybe three showers per day. And the very last thing I want to feel when I'm like winding down, getting ready for bed, trying to get a good night of sleep for whatever tomorrow is going to bring is sweaty and uncomfortable. Which is why I have completely converted all of the linens I ever touch to Brooklinen. They are truly buttery soft. They are silky smooth. They keep your cool when you're sleeping but you can still cocoon yourself up in there lovely buttery soft like duvet cover or top sheet, whatever floats your boat. I am so happy that I get to curl up each night in the buttery soft but still comfy and still cool Brooklinen. So shop in-store or online at brooklinen.com today to give yourself the cooling sleep you deserve this summer. Use the promo code Spirits for $20 off your online purchase of $100 or more plus free shipping on brooklinen.com. That's B R O O K L I N E N .com and use promo code Spirits for $20 off plus free shipping. And now let's get back to the show.
JULIA: So we are back and Niki, we always love to ask our guests what they have been drinking lately, whether that is cocktails, mocktails beers, teas, lemonades, etc. What's been your drink of choice lately?
NIKI: So I just moved into this—into this Airbnb that I'll be at for the next couple of months. And I didn't really have any—anything in the house because I just moved.
JULIA: Yep.
NIKI: And yesterday I was like trying to figure out beer. And I was like, what is Michelob Ultra? Never heard of this. I'd like heard of the beverage but I didn't— I can't— I've never had one.
ERIC: I saw you tweet this the other day and I was like, what is going on [34:43]
NIKI: Yeah. I tweeted, I was like is Michelob Ultra good? And it was one of those situations where like the the response was swift, and everyone was like, no, don't.
JULIA: Save yourself.
NIKI: It's— it's awful. Save yourself. So I just got some Corona instead, because that's my—that's my preferred. I love a Corona.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: But my actual thing is that there is a coffee shop near my place that has a an iced coffee. It's like the—like the specialty iced coffee. I'm looking at the menu right now to figure out what's in it. It's got cold brew.
JULIA: Nice.
NIKI: Obviously, it's iced coffee. Oat milk, and then they put just a bunch of maple syrup in there.
JULIA and ERIC: Ooohh.
NIKI: And it's really sweet.
JULIA: Alright.
NIKI: And it's really good. And it kind of like thickens the whole thing up. It's yum, yum, yum. It was delicious.
JULIA: I feel bad that Amanda is not here because her household is a absolutely like sweetened cold brew with maple syrup household. So she would be ecstatic to hear someone else's out there being like maple syrup in coffee.
NIKI: It's great.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: I had never had it before— before Wednesday, but it's—it's incredible.
JULIA: Amazing. Fantastic. Eric, what about you? What have you been drinking lately?
ERIC: Continuing my weird mid-30s Whiskey explorations. And I went to my local liquor store and I—I decided to become a guy who do talks about Japanese whiskey.
JULIA: Ah, hell yeah.
ERIC: Because wine.
NIKI: Yeah.
ERIC: I've tried—I've tried a lot of American whiskies, I'm very happy with them. So I've like I've heard like so many things throughout the years like Japanese whiskey, it's a whole different thing.
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: And I've tried two different types. I do not remember the names of them, but they're like the starter-level-type things for Japanese whiskey. One of them I know is like coffee, but like with an EY and not like coffee, the coffee drink.
JULIA: Okay.
ERIC: It's just that's what it's called. But yeah, they're very good. They are—it's interesting because like one of them is much more lighter, like a— like an Irish whiskey and one of them's a bit more darker. So I'm not sure like what the general flavor profile is across Japanese whiskies or if there even is one, the same way you can kind of categorize the American ones. But yeah, I've been enjoying sipping on those on the porch when the air is good enough to sit on the porch.
JULIA: Yes, because at the time of recording this wildfires real bad right now.
ERIC: Real bad right now.
NIKI: Yeah.
ERIC: And what about you, Julia?
JULIA: Thank you for asking. I have been— once again, I am going to plug my local brewery, which they should pay me money to sponsor them because it's basically every episode I recommend them. But Bluepoint Brewery has their rainbow Italian ice sour back and hoo boy, that shit is good. It is an 8% sour and it punches you in the face with how like lemony and raspberry it is. Oh, God, it is the bomb.com
ERIC: That's very good.
JULIA: Always, always baby.
ERIC: So Julia, let's, let's hear this story you've got prepared for us.
JULIA: Absolutely. So a running theme Niki on the show is we talk about either how our listeners were creepy kids when they were growing up or how the now parents in our audience have creepy kids as well. So this is another classic. This one comes from Ashley with the title My son is a creepy kid and probably a vampire.
NIKI: Perfect.
ERIC: Wow. No.
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: I've never really thought about the fact that we have people right in saying like my kids creepy.
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: But like we've definitely never had someone say, my kid might be a vampire.
JULIA: You never know, you never know.
NIKI: That's good.
JULIA: So Ashley writes, "Hello, Spiriters! We have been listening for a while and against Amanda's advice, I listened with my 4-year-old." Again, y'all—
NIKI: Perfect.
JULIA: We talked about a lot of stuff on this podcast.
ERIC: We've said a lot on this one, for sure.
JULIA: I've said so many cusses over the course of 8 years, that I feel like if I had to pay like a nickel for each cuss that I've said I would be, and here's another one, fucked. So, maybe don't listen with your 4-year-old but hey, who am I to tell you how to parent?
NIKI: You have to be 13.
ERIC: Yeah.
NIKI: You have to be 13 to learn about the Crocs Man.
JULIA: The be—the naked man who's creeping. Yeah. “Apparently this 4-year-old loves the hometown urban legends episodes. The more I have listened, the more I am convinced my son is a creepy kid. Here are a few stories being submitted as evidence. Number one, the Fae steals his toys. He has some favorite toys and whenever one goes missing, he tells us that the fairies took them. One, in particular, was an owl that we got him when we were in Las Vegas. He had been sleeping with it nightly. Then one night, we just couldn't find it. We looked in all the normal places then informed him that it was missing. He responded with the fairies took it. We asked, will they give him back? To which he replies yes, on Sunday.”
ERIC: Ohh.
JULIA: I like that the fairies were on the schedule, that's good, that's good.
ERIC: Just like our borrowing program.
NIKI: You're on a schedule and also that kid knows it.
JULIA: Yeah. “And so he also told us that the Fae were collecting things quote, they want to play with this toy, this stuffy, and this rock for three days by the door. So we set those things by the door. And on Sunday, the stuffed owl returned, in his room where we looked before.
NIKI: Wow.
JULIA: At this point, he was also 2 at the time." Which one, good, like, vocalization for this child at 2 years old—
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: You know? And also the idea of understanding how time works, fantastic. Great baby. Yeah.
NIKI: Incredible. He's learning from the fairy. He's going to school. The fairies are teaching him
JULIA: Yeah. If you leave him in his room, those fairies have taken him to school, he is learning calculus, you better walk out.
ERIC: I definitely did not understand time at that age. Because I remember specifically—
NIKI: I still don't understand time.
ERIC: — the first like human thought I can remember having is like in terms of like, trying to understand a complex idea, not like first literal thought. Was I remember I was at like a doctor's office with my mom and little sister. And I understood that I was born in August, and she who's 3 years younger than me was born in April. And I understood that April came before August, but I did not understand years yet. So I was like, but how am I older? Like I couldn't— I—so like the first like the first thing I couldn't remember as like a complex ideas is like I understood the order of months, but could not comprehend anything past that.
JULIA: Honestly, impressive.
ERIC: [41:25] I was just like, but she's so small, but I'm bored later of the year than her. So like, how does it work?
JULIA: Your mom had to explain there were multiple Augusts between now and the Aug— the April that your sister was born in.
NIKI: How many August. How many August have there been? Thousands?
JULIA: Millennia. Oh gosh. Alright. So that was the— the fae stealing his toys. Next up is the story of old man Powell. So we live on a private drive called Powell lane. This section was the back border of several 100 acres of property owned by the Powell family that was sectioned off and sold. There are only five houses on the lane, and we are the most recent ones that have moved in about 5 years ago. One day we were in the truck getting ready to leave the house for the day. He looked back at our house and asked who's that? I looked and I saw nobody and—and said where? And he said right by the house. There was no one that I could see, so I asked for a description. He described a guy as a tall old white man in blue overalls. I asked him if he was here to harm us.” Which is a wild thing to ask your child about like a stranger that you can't see.
NIKI: The wild question to ask a child. Yeah.
JULIA: Oh, gosh. Yeah. Already. Like, Ashley, Ashley, listen to me. I appreciate it. Listen, I'm not here to judge how you're parenting because I'm not a parent, I can't do that and I can't judge other people for how they decide to parent. When you ask your child whether or not a spirit you can't see it's here to harm us, I think you're creating a creepy child rather than the child being creepy themselves. You might also be creepy, and that's fine. That's what we'd like to hear on the podcast. But you're creating the creepiness here. “I asked him if he was here to harm us, and he told me no. So we just waved goodbye and left. We spoke to one of the neighbors about this and she said, yeah, that's old man Powell. We learned that he was one of the original family members, and he would often visit people who lived on parts of the original homestead. I think at the time, the kid was 3.”
NIKI: This kid can see stuff.
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: Yeah. This kid knows too much.
JULIA: Yeah. Well, you know, that's also a thing. Like, there are a lot of stories saying like, you know, children can see spirits, even if like adults can't, because their minds are more open and they're more like willing to see that kind of thing than then adults are.
ERIC: Right.
JULIA: But also your neighbor recognized this ghost. And I feel like we've talked about this on the show. If you are moving into a house, and you're considering buying it, and your neighbor knows that this area is haunted, or the previous owners know that the house is haunted, they should have to fucking tell you, right? Like they should tell you.
NIKI: Yeah, you legally should be informed. Yeah.
JULIA: And in several states, that is true.
NIKI: It should be like a page.
JULIA: There are several states where it is true that if your house is famously haunted, you do have to reveal that to the buyers ahead of time.
ERIC: What does famously haunted mean?
JULIA: Famously haunted refers to the fact that like it might be featured on a ghost tour, or it's like a movie was made about how this house is haunted. So people like show up and they're like, oh, that's the haunted house click, click, click, click. Like if you're like house is like something that people might go to see and that's unwanted attention that you might be getting in your private home and private property, legally in several states they have to inform you of that.
NIKI: The end.
JULIA: Yeah. New York is one of them, it was called the Ghostbusters Case. We did a whole episode on it highly recommend it. But yeah, so I strongly believe that if a house is haunted, you should have to tell the people who are buying it that it may or may not be haunted.
ERIC: Makes sense.
JULIA: Makes sense. Alright. The next one is the graveyard stories and there are two of these ones. “So the Powell family again from the previous story, we're large enough that there is a Powell graveyard, a half mile up the road from us on the top of a hill that overlooks the whole valley. It is a beautiful view, so we go up there occasionally and look through the old headstones.” Again, I think you're creating the creepy child here.
NIKI: Yes, I’ve figuring a lot out about the kid—
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: Yeah.
NIKI: —now.
JULIA: “One time my son was with us and he started snuggling the headstones. I asked him, what are you doing buddy? And he said he's lonely. I said, who? And he said the man. I figured I should just go in for a closer look as I was a few headstones away. When I got there, I realized that he was snuggling the headstone of someone who purchased side-by-side burial sites for them and their significant other, but the significant other was still alive, and the person had been buried there for about 20 years.”
NIKI: Wow.
JULIA: That's a lot.
ERIC: Yeah, geez.
NIKI: Wow.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. I would also be lonely if I was like just chillin' waiting for my spouse to like arrive and they were still—
NIKI: Waiting.
JULIA: —living. Yeah, yeah.
NIKI: Yeah, still kicking.
JULIA: What a very empathetic child you're raising though Ashley, a shout out to you.
ERIC: Mm-hmm.
JULIA: “The second graveyard story comes from a Masonic cemetery in our town. My personal background with it includes that my stepdad was surveying it and designed both their pet Cemetery and their Veterans Memorial. With that in mind, it is a beautiful place. One of the most beautiful areas in my opinion is the section of the cemetery that is for unfortunately, children. They do not charge for children's plots. With the scene set, we are driving through the cemetery and near the children's area. And he asked if we were going to stop so that he could play with the kids. There were no visible kids that I saw. He then told me that they were playing tag around the headstones. Again, I couldn't see any kids.”
ERIC: No good.
JULIA: “I asked what they were wearing and he got frustrated with me and said, they're right there pointing up the headstones in the children's section. I still didn't see anything, so he told me that the girl was wearing a dress and a sun hat and the boy was in shorts with a buttoned-down shirt and a hat and was annoyed that I told him that we didn't have time to stop and play with the kids.” Which admittedly, I probably would also be annoyed as a child.
NIKI: I'd also be annoyed.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah. “After this, we drove to the oldest part of the cemetery.” Like we didn't just turn around and go home after that incident. [47;50]
NIKI: [47:50]
ERIC: Yeah.
NIKI: Which is what I would have done, I would have been like time to go.
JULIA: Yeah.
NIKI: We're getting McDonald's or something, but we're leaving here.
JULIA: We're going to the non-haunted McDonald's, you can get a happy meal and we're not gonna talk about this.
ERIC: Yeah. You can unpack this moment 20 years from now in therapy.
JULIA: “So after this, we drove to the oldest part of the cemetery. My son started freaking out and yelling stop, stop. I asked what was going on. He said they're showing me how they died.” What?!
ERIC: Nope, absolutely not.
NIKI: No.
ERIC: Far too much.
NIKI: No. Nooo.
JULIA: “My friend who I was showing the cemetery to” which is why they're in the cemetery in the first place. Just giving their friend, a quick tour of the cemetery "quickly said ask them to show you something they love. And he calmed down and said, that's better.
NIKI: Yeah, I agree. I—I would agree.
ERIC: Yeah.
NIKI: That is better.
JULIA: “We asked him what he was seeing now and he told us of images of gardening, street racing, dancing in the sun, being with friends, picnics, and more.” So not only is he like, seeing ghosts, he's also like getting visions from the ghosts, which seems bad.
NIKI: Yeah. Yeah. The ghost kid inform this kid about a lot of stuff that kids aren't going to be ready for.
ERIC: He can also apparently control the ghosts because he told the ghost to show him better things and the ghosts acquiesced quite quickly. Yeah.
NIKI: And then the ghost was like, oh bad.
ERIC: Yeah, I'll do that instead.
NIKI: Yeah, you're right this is a bummer.
JULIA: He like you know what, gardening, it is better. It really is.
NIKI: Damn.
ERIC: Yeah, it's like— it's like oh, it's much better to see you like playing with a— with like a stick in hoop instead of dying of tuberculosis. That is a much better— better vision for you to send to me.
JULIA: [49:40]
ERIC: Ghost child.
JULIA: This it's even the children though, these are like the full ass like adult ones.
NIKI: Oh yeah, this is like adults.
JULIA: This is like the old part of the cemetery. So like yeah, like street racing being one of them, I was like, that might also have been how that person died.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: But I'm not gonna judge like, who am I?
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: Alright. And the final story is our previous lives together. Now as Ashley mentioned, “my son is four and he has always been a mama's boy. He loves me more than any other human and tells me often. Saying things like my beautiful mama, my favorite mama, and more. I can't remember the first time he told me this, but it's come up roughly every 6 months from the time that he could really formed sentences. He will be walking with me on our property or snuggling on the couch and say, we've always been together. And I respond with Yep, your whole life. To which he says, I mean, before this life you found me again.”
NIKI: Oh, boy that's— That's incredible.
JULIA: I mean like, there are a lot of stories about like, children remembering previous lives and stuff like that. So like, this is not like, super uncomfortable. I'm not gonna say it's not an uncommon thing, but it's like it—
ERIC: Everyone's kid has done this.
NIKI: Everyone's kid remembers this.
JULIA: 1 in 10 kids remembers their previous lives, right? But no, like, this is not a unheard of thing, I'll say that, how about that?
ERIC: Yeah.
NIKI: Yeah.
JULIA: And she continues, “I can't remember the exact exchange each time we have spoken about this. However, I know they're always unprompted conversations. We are generally alone with no outside stimulation, like TV or radio, and he's always certain that this is not the first life we have journeyed together. If you would like more stories about my mom predicting major accidents, the haunted house she grew up in, and or her coming to escort animals over the rainbow bridge, let me know. Stay creepy, stay cool. Ashley.”
NIKI: I figured it out.
JULIA: Okay.
NIKI: It's a family thing.
JULIA: Yes.
NIKI: They're all scary.
ERIC: They're all Spooky.
NIKI: It's in your blood.
JULIA: Oh, also. Sorry, there's a PS here.
NIKI: Okay.
JULIA: Which is the reason that we mentioned the vampire thing earlier.
ERIC: Oh, yeah.
NIKI: Oh right, I already forgot about that.
JULIA: “Which is we call him a vampire because the only thing I craved while I was pregnant was garlic, and he is now allergic to it.”
ERIC: Mm-hmm.
NIKI: Wow.
ERIC: Oh, yeah. I see that.
NIKI: That's incredible.
JULIA: Incredible. Thank you so much, Ashley. Oh, wonderful. So Ashley, Salla and of course, Niki, thank you so much for joining us this episode. If people want to check out what you do and find you on the internet, where can they do so?
NIKI: You can find me on Twitter @ Godsewa G O S E W A. And I'm on Blue Sky if you're on that at nikigrayson.com is my Blue Sky handle. But the big thing I do is I have a comedy podcast for my friends called If You're Driving, Close Your Eyes. It's a blast. I don't know how to describe it. It's just—it's just a good—it's a good fun time. It's just a vibe—vibe with it—vibe with some friends.
ERIC: It's one of my favorite comedy podcasts for sure.
NIKI: Thank you. But yeah, ifyou'redriving.com. We're on Twitter at ifyou'redriving. Got a Patreon too. But if you go to ifyou’redriving.com you'll—you'll find that. But yeah, give us give us a listen if you're looking for some laughs, after you listen to this podcast.
JULIA: Oh, thank you. Well, wonderful. Thank you so much, Niki. and remember listeners next time you see a ghost that's naked for everything but Crocs remember, stay creepy.
ERIC: Stay cool.
[theme]
AMANDA: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a form to send us in your urban legends and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, for all kinds of behind-the-scenes goodies. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more. Like recipe cards with alcoholic and nonalcoholic for every single episode, directors' commentaries, real physical gifts, and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye!