Episode 224: Your Urban Legends XLVIII - The Creepy Child Scale
/We’re mixing up statistics and graphs with our creepy children. Typical episode of the show. Also featuring how funeral homes shouldn’t be real homes, our hometown’s Guiness World Record, and the return of the man in the trenchcoat.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of pets running away, existential crises, trances, destruction of historic sites, death, murder, death by falling, violence against women, implied child abuse, sleepwalking, blackmail, death of a grandparent, and funeral homes.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends You Need a Budget.
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Transcript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is Episode 224: You Urban Legends XLVIII.
Julia: Coming in on 50. We're gonna have to think of what we want to do for 50. I know we've had a bunch of, like, special episodes in January, but I feel like we need something for 50, you know.
Amanda: Yeah, we’ll have to think about it. If anybody has any ideas, we're @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter and Insta. Let us know.
Julia: Let us know.
Amanda: But do you know who doesn't have to let us know anything about how cool they are because we already know?
Julia: Is that our new patrons?
Amanda: It's our new patrons; Ilana, Zazi, Justine, chaoticneutral, Yazmine, Frostvarg, Louise, Sarah E, and Jazmine. Thank you so very, very much for supporting us on Patreon.
Julia: You all are wonderful human beings and we would be nothing without you.
Amanda: We also want to take this time to thank our supporting producer level patrons; Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Debra, Hannah, Jane, Jessica K, Jessica S, Justin, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Liz, Megan L, Megan M, Phil Fresh, Polly, SamneyTodd, Sarah, and Skyla. Love that we have both Jessica's and both Megan's with us right now.
Julia: It's just – that’s a squad, you know. You got to have the matching pair.
Amanda: And, of course, it wouldn't be an episode of Spirits if I couldn't say Bea Me Up Scotty. So, on that note, thanks also to our legend level patrons; Bea, Audra, Drew, Jack Marie, Ki, Lada, Mark, Morgan, Necroroyalty, Renegade, Sanna, and Bea Me Up Scotty.
Julia: And Bea Me Up Scotty. It’s not a – it’s not to that Bea Me Up Scotty.
Amanda: No, it’s sure isn’t.
Julia: Now, Amanda, I feel like, as spring approaches, we have officially passed the marker welcoming spring. This feels, like, it's time to start new things, start new books, start new TV shows. What have you been watching, listening to, or reading lately?
Amanda: I'd like to recommend two things to you, Julia. And both of them might not necessarily be, like, a universal appeal.
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: But that's what I'm giving two. So, one is Guy's Grocery Games, which I don't think I have talked about in earnest as a recommendation. But it's my favorite television show. I think it is the perfect game show. It is fantastic. It's a whole cinematic universe. I have a Discovery Plus free trial. So, I can watch as many episodes as possible in 30 days. It's just fantastic. And it's a lovely time. And, if you've never thought about Guy Fieri as, like, one of the most, I think, intentional and interesting television producers and, like, talent sourcers in TV right now, you got to. It's amazing. I am shooting my shot and saying right now that I have to interview him at some point for some podcast somewhere.
Julia: I love Guy's Grocery Games quite a bit. The only thing I will say that stresses me out about the show is the final round where they get the bonus by finding various things throughout the grocery store. I’m always yelling like, “Of course, it's not that aisle. Come on, man.”
Amanda: I never watch that part. It's too stressful. But, you know, I love that it has a whole gambit. And then, secondly, something that I – honestly, like, I wake up and I check this app and I grin every day and just, like, it brings me so much pleasure. It's You Need a Budget. And, when we talked about in our last Advice from Folklore, I went off a little bit about personal finance. And a couple people have gotten in touch to say that they found that useful, which I love. And something that I really been enjoying is this app, You Need a Budget. I wish I started doing it 10 years ago. It basically has you, like, assign every dollar that comes in from, you know, your work or whatever – your paycheck. And you can budget for a house in 10 years. You can budget for, you know, your annual, like, car inspection or whatever – I don't have a car. I don't know what that's about – or your, you know, groceries or a trip that you want to take one day. And nothing about it is, like, revolutionary, but the way it lays it out is amazing. I love checking my little apps. I can put little emojis in the – you know, the names of the budget categories. And it's just helped me to think about money in a way that doesn't make me panic. So, I put a referral link in the description. Just full disclosure, it gives me a free week if somebody signs up. But, if you don't want to use that link, you can just go to youneedabudget.com or look for the app, You Need a Budget.
Julia: Heck yeah. I feel like everyone could use a little bit of help with their finances. I never know what I'm doing. So, a little structure would always be helpful.
Amanda: Yeah, they try to help you not live paycheck to paycheck, which is hard to do. And a lot of people have found it very helpful. But, listen, if you don't want to deal with that, watch Guy's Grocery Games. If you want to watch Guy’s Grocery Games instead of your budget, like I do, go for it. And, you know, enjoy. You do you.
Julia: Very nice.
Amanda: Well, without further ado, Julia, I think it is time for us to get into Episode 224: Your Urban Legends XLVIII.
Intro Music
Eric: I have a, a pupdate.
Amanda: Please.
Julia: I was gonna ask if it was a pupdate or a new haunted house. I feel like it's one or the other. You did give us—
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: —a very good neighbor update in the Slack the other day, which is also fun.
Eric: I had a neighbor update?
Julia: Yes, with your neighbor across the street.
Eric: Oh, I – there's no update. That guy just got taken away by the FBI and I haven't seen him in a year. I know nothing. I have no update. It's just he's, he's, he disappeared and he has not reappeared. So—
Julia: Is that the one that's for sale now? Or is that a different one?
Eric: No, that's a different house.
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: That’s a different house for sale. I have no idea what happened there. But, anyways, speaking of around those houses, Henry decided to fuck and try to run away yesterday.
Amanda: Nooo.
Eric: Hey, dude. It was a rough – first off, yesterday, the 16th as of when we're recording, it was their gotcha day. We've had the dogs for two years.
Amanda: Aww. Congrats.
Julia: Aww.
Eric: And, for some reason, they just decided to be little shits. Henry ran away. We, we've left the front door open when we've gotten packages before and they have never crossed the threshold to the outdoors on their own without leashes before. Today, Henry just booked it and just went down to a tree and it was very scary. And then he, not an hour later, peed on the back door.
Julia: Bud.
Eric: Which he rarely does. And then Herbie tried to escape when I was taking Henry out because he clearly had to pee. It was just a real, real disaster of a day. The pups are grounded and that doesn't mean anything at all. But they are – they are grounded.
Julia: I like that they kind of reacted to gotcha day being like, “We can do whatever the fuck we want now. Let's go.”
Amanda: Yeah, it's been two years. You can't return us. You can't give us back to the stork.
Julia: We're all yours now.
Eric: It's exactly like that. It is exactly like that. Yeah, they just decided they had enough of it and, and disappeared.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: And I mean they're fine now, but quite the adventure So, anyways, let's talk about less creepy things than my dogs potentially running away and, like, ghosts and stuff because I can handle ghosts.
Julia: Well, another person has emailed me to say they've also seen the trench coat with the dog.
Amanda: [gasp] No.
Eric: Oh, boy.
Julia: Are you ready for more men in trench coat with the dog, gang?
Eric: I'm ready.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: All right. This was sent in by Meghan and she titled it, I also have seen the man in the trench coat with the hat and the dog for the canon. I want to say thank you. Thank you. Everyone knows that the canon is expanding here. So, she writes, “Hello, Amanda, Julia, and Eric. I've been listening to Spirits for probably two years now and, as a person who is terrified of everything but wants to know about spooky things, I just want to thank you because this podcast is wonderful to listen to. Yes, spooky boys are discussed, but you have such a warm and comforting presence that comes through in every episode. And, so, I can listen and learn about ghosts, but not sleep with all the lights on. It is definitely creepy and cool.”
Amanda: You can hear fellow people be like, “Ugh. Oh, no. No.”
Julia: Yes. No, that is – that's the ideal or me just cackling in delight every time we talk about creepy things.
Amanda: We, we really hit all, all corners of that triangle and then Eric’s stoic occasional, “No.”
Julia: I want to say this next part is for Eric, which is, “I want to start off by saying I am Team Ignorance 312 percent.”
Eric: Thank you.
Julia: There you go, bud. I have always been very sensitive to the spirit world and just spooky boys in general, but I tell myself regularly that I am not, like I said, Team Ignorance 312 percent. However, for the sake of the trench coat man canon, I want to tell my story. Trenchie, which is a great nickname. Trenchie and I have been acquaintances since I was about four. I'm now 21. And I have seen him in dreams during the day, at night, and, also, in a strange trance that I will fully once.” College shenanigans, you know how it is. Didn't we all willfully go into strange trances in college, gang?
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Eric: Oh, oh, every day.
Julia: Every day.
Eric: Every day. I went to a strange – it's called class.
Amanda: Yeah, my, my whole college experience was a trance called This Is Fine.
Julia: Yep, existential crisis. That's my whole college experience. So, she continues, “I could write out almost every one of my encounters with him, but that email would be thick. So, I will share two, the most spooky and whack in my opinion. The first time I saw him I had woken up from a bad dream. And, being a four-year-old, I naturally went to get out of bed to go tell my mom and sleep the rest of the night in bed with my parents. However, when I pulled the covers off and put my legs over the side of the bed, he was there. I felt him first. It was summer in Michigan and a balmy 88 degrees well into the night. But, when I removed my blankets, the air was freezing cold. Then I remember getting what I call my spooky notification, which is a tugging feeling in my stomach and all over my skin. Four-year-old me decided to be brave and I chanced a glance around the room and there he was. He was standing in the one empty corner of my room right next to the door. He was tall and it was too dark to make out features, but he had on a top hat and the collar of his trench coat was pulled up. I immediately wanted to look away because of the overwhelming sense of impermanence that washed over me. But I also had the strong sense that me looking at him was the only thing tying me down to the physical world at that moment. And, if I looked away, I might float away.” This is very insightful for a four-year-old. Go on.
Amanda: Brutal. Yeah.
Julia: So, I kept looking. He didn't say anything to me. He just turned his shadow head and looked at the door and then back at me and shook his head. I took that as a sign not to try and leave my room. Probably a good, good choice. We just stared at each other for I don't know how long. And then, outside my window, I heard a very long very spooky howl and I blinked and Trenchie was gone. I then proceeded to crawl back under the covers and not sleep the rest of the night because who can possibly fall asleep after that? I continue to see Trenchie after that and, sometimes, his dog was with him. It was a very big dog and its eyes glowed, which was my least favorite. I don't like glowing eyes. Sometimes, he would be in my dreams just like a little cameo or as a side character. Most time, he just shows up and stands in the corner. The temperature still drops when he's around, but there was one occasion last year where he changed it up a little bit. And then a new title card, College Shenanigans.
Amanda: [laughs]
Eric: Oh, boy, here we go. Here's the shenanigans.
Amanda: I love. When people structure their emails and their narratives and they have sub headers. They set expectations and then subvert them. It's like – it's like a whole journey.
Julia: A good written email is just the best possible thing to open our inbox to. I love it so much. Okay. So, College Shenanigans, new title card. In the beginning of my sophomore year, about a month before the pandemic started and we all got sent home, my roommate and a few of our friends had learned about this trance game. Again, applying the, the strange college trance that we talked about before. Basically, you lay on your back with your head in someone's lap and your arms straight up while they chant, “Red door, yellow door, any other color door,” while rubbing their temples. And, when your arms drop, you're in a trance.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: Okay. Fun. Sounds like a college thing to do. Sure.
Amanda: What happens in the trance? Are you allowed to, like, make out with somebody who you like but you're not sure if they like you so you rig a game of spin the bottle so that you get to kiss?
Julia: That was so specific, Amanda. Amanda, are you okay? Are going on a—
Amanda: No idea why. No idea why.
Julia: And, like, state for a second there.
Eric: I'm just gonna talk about this extremely specific experience that surely everyone's had, right?
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm. Everyone's done that for sure.
Amanda: That's my whole brand. That’s my whole brand.
Julia: Well, let me explain what happens in the trance. So, the person rubbing your temples guides you through wherever you go and asks you what you see and how you feel to monitor. Once you're in, there are rules. You can only be under for two minutes. Don't go through the purple door. If you enter a room full of clocks, wake the person up. If you see anyone, don't talk to them. And, if you see the Man in the Hat, wake the person up immediately. You can go upstairs but not down. This is like a whole, like, thing. You can—
Amanda: Whoa.
Julia: Apparently, you can look this up on the internet because there are scary stories about this going wrong, which we knew about those, she says, but we chose to ignore.
Eric: Naturally.
Julia: College students would definitely die first in a horror movie. I said that last episode too. There's a reason for this. The chaotic disregard for logic is, honestly, stunning. Anyways, I was very skeptical that this would even work my friend went under first, but he has been known to lie just to be the center of attention and to have a good story. So, I was still unconvinced. Don't we all have that one friend?
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah, we do.
Julia: This is why I decided to try going under. I thought that my doubt, skepticism, and insomnia would keep me awake and out of this trance. I was completely wrong.
Eric: Ooh.
Amanda: Oh, no.
Julia: Here you go. That's what happens when your Team Ignorant.
Eric; I want to be very clear. I want to be very clear.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: This is not how Team Ignorant works.
Julia: Hmm?
Eric: You are actively subjecting yourself to thing. Team Ignorant is about a sound far away and you don't investigate. This is not part of Team Ignorant and I will not stand for it.
Julia: All right. So, this is Team Skepticism.
Amanda: I think this is Team Lalala I can't hear you—
Julia: [laughs]
Eric: Mhmm.
Amanda: —which is when you get yourself into a situation and then, when people are like, “Oh, hey,” you're like, “Lalala. I can't hear you. Going through the door.”
Julia: Don't worry about it. Okay. She continues, “Basically, I was in a long hallway with doors and I kept walking through the doors as directed by my friend who put me in the trance. Then I entered one more door and there, in the corner of the room, was Trenchie. His dog was not with him. But, somehow, I knew that he was nearby. There was another door in front of me and, again, Trenchie looked at it and then looked at me, but, this time, he didn't shake his head. He held his hand out to me like Aladdin when he says, “Do you trust me?” Now, while I was in the trance, I could still hear my friend's voice talking to me in my head. And I heard him asking me, “What do you see?” And I knew I should tell him that I see a man because the rules said to wake me up if I saw him, but, for some reason, I felt like it was safe to go with him.”
Eric: Hell yeah.
Julia: I think, at this point, I had seen him so many times. I kind of know that, if he wanted to hurt me, he has had many chances to do so and didn't. Girl.
Amanda: Hmm.
Julia: Babe, no. No, no, no. As much as I was curious, my membership of Team Ignorance won out and I told my friend that there was a man and he woke me up immediately. I have seen Trenchie since then, but he has not offered his hand to me again. And, if he does that, I don't think I'll go with him because, frankly, I have too much homework to do. And I don't have time to go on a spirit adventure right now, which is peak, peak Spirits listener.
Amanda: [laughs]
Julia: I hope you enjoyed my tales. I also want to say that I don't recommend trying this game. I am not here to promote unsafe actions. My friends and I are safe and okay, but that wasn't the best collective decision we ever made. So, please stay safe and take care of yourselves. Thank you for putting in the time and work to record this podcast that I and so many other people really appreciate. Sincerely, Meghan.
Amanda: Oh, Meghan, even if we disagree with your choices, we appreciate you writing in.
Julia: We, we do. We do. I'm so glad that we're still getting man in the trench coat with his dog stories. These are my favorite.
Amanda: Trenchie, baby.
Eric: I'm worried these are gonna spiral out of control and he's gonna, like, become a real dude or something. Like, a corporeal dude. He's, obviously, a real dude in the dreamverse, but he’ll be corporeal and get us.
Julia: Excellent.
Amanda: At what point does our coverage of the phenomenon feed into the phenomenon, you know?
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: At what point do we start making our own creepy pasta here?
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: Well, do you guys want to hear about a ghost that nobody has seen but is incredibly creepy nonetheless?
Julia: Yes.
Eric: Of course.
Amanda: Okay. This email comes from Amy titled, Haunted Pubs in Stone Circles.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: Amy says, “Hi, all. You are getting me through UK lockdown right now. So, I thought I'd offer one of my local legends. I don't know if you can call it urban since it's rural as hell out here. My home country of Wiltshire is one of the oldest in the UK and packed full of the ancient and the bewildering. One of my favorites is a small village of Avery, home to Stonehenge’s lesser known cousin, Avebury Stone Circle.
Julia: Cute. Love it.
Amanda: For miles in every direction, there are only rolling hills and green and yellow, surprisingly, easy to get lost in. But, on this patch of land, there nestles a great round ditch and a high embankment almost like a moat surrounding a castle. Jagged stones as tall as two men form rings around the perimeter. Though impressive, the stones are sparse nowadays. In the 1700s, the locals in the area smashed up the majority of the stones for use in construction. So, I can only assume there are houses still standing in the village with pieces of Neolithic monuments in them.
Julia: Hey, you know how in Poltergeist the whole plot is like, “Oh, they moved the tombstones, but they didn't move the bodies. And, now, we're being haunted.” That's this. That's just this.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: It is kind of this.
Amanda: Fortunately, markers have been set down to show visitors where the stolen stones used to stand. It is a tragic and contemplative sort of place. A brisk walk away, they’re lies Long Barrow and other similar mounds, ancient tombs among them. As if that weren't impressive enough, another immense hill looms over the scene. Silbury Hill is a manmade, mysteriously hollow and, just like the stone circle, no one's really sure why it was built or what its true purpose might be. It's just generally understood that all this stuff was already here when the Vikings rolled up. Together these various additions to the landscape paint an eerie scene, but it's a beautiful one, too and a bracing walk in the early hours of the morning. In the summer and winter, Druids are allowed to worship during the solstice this year, which I think is great.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: This is only the backdrop however into the creepier legend I wanted to share, which belongs to the Red Lion.
Julia: Here's the thing. You are setting yourself up for failure when you destroy ancient sights and use them to build new things. And, of course, this is the – only the backdrop because, of course, other creepy things are gonna happen now.
Amanda: I don’t know if Scooby Doo is the right cultural reference point. But anything where, like, you roll up into a new village and they're like, “Oh, the manmade hill no one knows what it's for, we don't talk about that one.”
Julia: Yeah, very monster of the week. I feel you.
Amanda: The Red Lion boasts the fact that it is the only pub in the center of a Neolithic stone circle and is recognized as one of the most haunted pubs in Britain.
Julia: Of course, it is.
Eric: One of them.
Julia: Of course.
Amanda: I just – I want to drink so badly in the middle of a Neolithic stone circle. Like, come on.
Julia: I remember the town that Amanda and I grew up in had a Guinness World Record for having the bar that was closest to a church for an extremely long time. And then they tore that church down. They built a different church in, like, slightly further away. So, we lost the Guinness World Record, but—
Amanda: It was directly across a, like, one-lane street. I think it was maybe, like, 25 feet from the door of the church that I was confirmed in and the local Shamrock pub. Shout out Shamrock pub.
Eric: I definitely thought you meant a Guinness World Record like the beer, Guinness. And I was like, “What is a Guinness World Record?”
Julia: Ba dum tss!
Eric: And then I was like – I wasn't trying to make a bad joke either. I genuinely was confused that it took me a second because you were talking about a pub. And I was like, “Oh, yeah, Guinness.” And then I was like, “Wait. What?”
Julia: Yeah, I've literally never stepped foot in that bar. So, I—
Amanda: No, no, no. Never. Never. One time when I was, like, 20, my dad was like, “Hey, I'm going to the Shamrock pub with our neighbors. Do you want to come?” And I was like, “This feels like a test and I don't want to fail it.” So, I said no. And I don't think it was. But that was my only opportunity and I have yet to do anything in that hometown again.
Julia: Well, Amanda, next time you're on Long Island and we can go to bars again, we'll go in there just for fun.
Amanda: We've been to trendy bars, Julia, but I think it's time we do a little circuit of dive bars where we'll probably see our old teachers drinking in the middle of the day.
Julia: 100 percent.
Amanda: Great. Back to the Red Lion, although I've lived close by for my whole life, I’ve only recently began researching the particular so I could include them in a novel following a visit last spring. Needless to say, I'm glad I looked into it after I dropped by for lunch. The Red Lion has been established in Avebury since the early 1600s and was converted into a coaching inn in 1802 and remains a pub to this day. Centuries ago, travelers would pull their carriages and coaches into the yard outside the white walled building beneath a thatched roof and stay in the rooms above the bar. Sometimes, at night, you can still hear horseshoes on the stones outside and the clack of carriage wheels. Various landlords have made it clear that of all the ghosts, the phantom coach is the one you shouldn't attempt to confront as it's believed to be a harbinger of doom.
Julia: I feel like we've established on the show that my favorite type of ghost is in fact a horse ghost. A little, little ghostly clip clop. I love it.
Amanda: I think ghost cat probably wins it for me, but ghost horses right behind.
Julia: Just a gentle whinny on the breeze.
Amanda: Mhmm. Mhmm. There is something particularly chilling, I think, about a specter no one has actually seen. The inn, itself, was constructed around a deep well, which still remains today. It's glassed over and can be used as a table by visitors who may peer down into its depths as they drink. Really bury the lead here, Amy. This, to me, is the creepiest part of the entire email.
Julia: I – yes.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Hell yes. Hell, hell yes.
Amanda: A little creepy, possibly. Potentially more unsettling is the fact that at least one person is known to have died falling down that exact same well.
Julia: Okay. But the true creepiness level is whether or not they retrieved the body.
Amanda: Good question, Julia. There were also rumors that in the 17th century a woman named Florrie was tossed down the well after her husband returned from war to find her with someone else.
Eric: Whoa.
Amanda: Well, Florrie remains one of the more well-known ghosts to hunt the Red Lion. She's rumored to walk the room, sometimes; simply walking, searching, contemplating her demise. Apparently, she has a taste for men with beards and, when chandeliers were in fashion, was known to make chandelier spin wildly when a bearded gentleman was near.
Julia: Wow. Wow. Same.
Amanda: I, I hope Florrie is finding empowerment in death after, you know, patriarchy killed her. While strange orbs, crocked shadows, and an icy chill have been enough to drive some overnight guests from the pub, by far, the most unnerving of the rumored ghosts is that of the children.
Julia: Oh, no.
Amanda: More than one unfortunate guest has claimed to have woken in the middle of the night to see two small children cowering in the corner. Worse still, they’re sometimes accompanied by a stern woman at a desk who pays their fear no notice whatsoever.
Julia: Oh, boy. Yeah.
Amanda: As I mentioned before, I found the Red Lion to be a perfectly pleasant place to go to lunch, but it definitely has the 400-year-old thatched roof haunted vibe. The stone circle doesn't do it any favors. Personally, I believe about two thirds of local legends. I have my skeptical sensible head on when I'm talking about that last third. This patch of England has drawn people to it for millennia and they left their mark, both in spirit and in the truly remarkable ancient structures which still lure in religious groups and curious tourists. Sometimes, the ancient stones, and the looming hollow hill, and the burial mounds are joined by intricate crop circles. Though, it's been a while since I've seen one of those.
Julia: Oh, hell yes. Here's my thing. I feel like the period in which you are at a place for lunch is not long enough to confirm whether it is or isn't haunted.
Amanda: Quite true.
Julia: You got to, at least, stay the night.
Amanda: It is another matter altogether to commit to staying the night there. Definitely.
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Amanda: And then Amy finishes by saying, “For my own part, the strangest experienced I've had in the area happen nearby. I can't say exactly where it is though, because I haven't been able to find the place where it happened again.
Julia: Oh-oh.
Amanda: At 15, my friends and I were hiking through the countryside with the intention of camping at the end of a 14-mile walk. Naturally, we strayed from our path when we stopped for lunch. And we did so near a grey stone monument with staggered steps. These aren't unusual in Wiltshire. So, don't think too poorly of us when I say we sat on the steps to rest and replenish. Amy, I am a little bit judgmental of your lunch choices, but let's continue.
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Amanda: We had been there maybe two minutes before a tall man on a bike cycled up, stopped, and told us that the monument was intended to mark the grave of a Viking King.
Julia: There it is.
Amanda: He told us that the king wasn't actually buried there, but that he was under the earth in an adjoining field. The man then cycled away. None of us had an opportunity though to get a word in edgewise. Now, probably, he was just a man with some local knowledge, but, like I mentioned, I can't find this supposed Viking grave on any map. I can't find the row of trees we walked between shortly after getting lost. Maybe I was simply spooked by the rolling hills and the nearby reminders of the ancient communities who'd walked the same muddy roads. I can't really say. I only know it was strange and that none of us knew where we were until we saw the stone circle and that weird hollow hill. I hope you enjoyed.
Julia: I did. I did.
Eric: I enjoyed. I, I think I have a question.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: Go for it.
Eric: She mentioned two spooky children.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: What is the number of spooky children where it, like, becomes more and more spooky? Like, one spooky child I feel like, if it's a ghost spooky child, creepy but not terrible. Two is I feel like pretty bad. But then, like, at what point until, like, you get to, like, the movie like the Orphanage level of, like, 15 children?
Julia: A kindergarten class of creepy kids.
Eric: Does it, like, ramp up at one point? Because I feel like – it's, like, how much scarier is threes spooky children than two spooky children. It's not a full, like, 50 percent scarier, I think. But, like, 15 is definitely scarier than two.
Julia: It depends on whether or not they're speaking in unison.
Eric: Hmm.
Amanda: Yeah. And it also depends what they're doing because, to me, those two kids cowering and corner is scarier than creepy children being creepy children in front of you. Like, it's one thing if they are trying to creep you out. But, if they too are creeped out and they are creepy scary children, like, come on.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: It also depends on the creepiness of said children. You know, like, you can just get like small little toddler ghosts and, yeah, fine. And then you have, like, the grudge child, you know. That’ll be like—
Eric: That's true.
Julia: —exponentially creepier.
Amanda: The creepiness per ghost child diminishes over amount. Yes, but it's still scales. Like, two is very creepier than one. Three is slightly less creepier than two. But then, when you get to, like, 15 children, like, that is – that's terrifying. If there's a, an auditorium full of ghost children assembled for as, like, school safety assembly, terrible.
Julia: Or even like from a voice level. Like, the voice of one creepy child, you know—
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: —okay.
Amanda: Creepy. Creepy.
Julia: Fine. Two creepy children, very creepy. But, like, if you have like, again, an auditorium full of creepy children, a kindergarten class of creepy children, that's like they're coming from all over the place. And, yeah, that's, that's very spooky and overwhelming.
Amanda: Well, I hope you guys enjoyed it. And all this talk of lunch in the countryside has me getting very thirsty. So, let's head on in for a refill.
Julia: Hell yeah. Let's go.
Midroll Music
Amanda: This episode is sponsored by ThirdLove. And, Julia, as I'm able to get out and about and wear my sleeveless things, and show off my tattoos, and wear my – you know, my shorts and my dresses, something that always used to stress me out about spring and summer is that you kind of need, like, strapless bras or racerback bras to sort of take full advantage of all of the, like, fun, strappy, like, rompers, dresses, et cetera that spring and summer have to offer. But I am so happy that I have a strapless bra that I actually do not hate. In fact, I like it, via ThirdLove. And, if you want to go ahead online to thirdlove.com and take the fitting room quiz, you're gonna find that it's very fun. It's an improved version of the quiz that we all know and love. It’s like a personal shopper for your boobs, which is what they put in the copy and I think that's fantastic. They are comfortable. Listen, they’re quality. I, we've had my oldest ones – I think, our first sponsorship was, like, several years ago. All of my ThirdLove bras are holding up great, which I know is so important. And they, also, now, have loungewear.
Julia: Ooh.
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Julia: That's thirdlove.com/spirits for 20 percent off today. Amanda, if there's one thing that always throws me off every single year, twice a year actually, it is when time changes.
Amanda: Ah, I know. I'm getting old.
Julia: I do not like daylight savings. I think it should be the same all year. It's silly that it's not. But the thing that has been putting me asleep when I want to go to sleep and is waking me up on time after a restful night of sleep is my Calm app. So, you've heard us talk about Calm before. It is an app designed to help ease your stress and get the best sleep of your life. So, when you relieve anxiety and you improve your sleep, obviously, you know that, like, your life in general gets better. You're physically rested and you're mentally rested. And that is super important and Calm has a whole library of programs designed for healthy sleep like soundscapes, guided meditations, the sleep stories that you've heard us talk about. Laura Dern, shout out. We love you forever. Over 85 million people around the world use Calm to take care of their minds and get better sleep. So, for listeners of the show, Calm is offering a special limited time promotion of 40 percent off a Calm premium subscription at calm.com/spirits. That's 40 percent off unlimited access to Calm’s entire library. And they add new content every week. Get started today at calm.com/spirits. That's C-A-L-M.com/spirits.
Amanda: And, finally, this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. And something else that helps me to really kind of rest when I want to rest and not be kept awake or kept distracted at work or on the bus or whatever thinking about all the things in my life that I wish I did differently and all the things that might happen in the future is therapy. And I do that via BetterHelp. I really love the fact that I can meet with my counselor on my schedule. We can meet later at night, which is generally not available from traditional offline counseling because that works best for my schedule. And, if, for whatever reason, you want to switch counselors, BetterHelp makes that easy to do and free. They don't charge you anything to do it, which is absolutely amazing. BetterHelp is just fantastic. And, if you want to read people's opinions other than mine, you can go to betterhelp.com/reviews and you can read real reviews from real people who have found BetterHelp to be useful in their lives. Over a million people have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional and you deserve to as well. So, go to betterhelp.com/spirits for 10 percent off your first month of counseling. That is betterhelp.com/spirits for 10 percent off your first month.
Julia: BetterH-E-L-P.com/spirits for 10 percent off your first month.
Amanda: And, now, let's get back to the show. Guys, I am drinking a delicious beer that brings in the springtime for me.
Julia: Ooh.
Amanda: This is a Prickly Pear Sour from Threes Brewing Company right here—
Eric: Ooh.
Amanda: —in Queens, New York. It is so tasty. And, after trying Shiner in Texas and drinking Prickly Pear Beer, I have been on the lookout for something like it and I found it.
Julia: Hell yeah. That sounds delicious.
Eric: I've mentioned them before on here, but our local brewery, Market Garden, their Shandy is back, which is a classic. But they, also, year round, have their wheat beer, Prosperity Wheat, and I, I've been having that. And it is the perfect drink on those two days that are, like, 67 degrees before it gets cold again.
Amanda: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Eric: Enjoyed that quite a bit those days and hope to enjoy it again soon on days similarly.
Julia: To keep with the, the very creepy nature of this episode, I'm enjoying the Redrum Sour Ale from Great South Bay Brewery—
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: —which is a rum barrel-aged sour. I think you'll appreciate this. The ABV is 6.66 percent.
Amanda: Ah, nice.
Eric: Ooh.
Julia: Really, really just digging hard into that creepy factor there.
Amanda: Extremely good.
Eric: Very much so. I've got a story as well titled, Creepy Kid to Communing with the Dead Eric Safe.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: Ooh.
Eric: So, so, we're, we’re gonna jump right into this from Amanda S.
Amanda: It's a real Applebee's appetizer sampler platter of creepy children today.
Julia: It really is.
Eric: It really is.
Amanda: I got dibs on the potato skins.
Julia: Tight.
Eric: Hmm. I want the mozzarellas.
Julia: I want the – oh, my god, I want the spinach and artichoke dip. Is that cool with everyone?
Eric: Quickly think of – think of an appetizer. Name one appetizer, Julia. Me and Amanda picked the two obvious ones. Now, you got to think of it an appetizer.
Julia: I knew what it was. I couldn't remember the name of it. I was like, “The dip thing. The dip thing, guys.”
Amanda: Julia, I’m having a memory of either you or I, specifically, for getting the name of spinach artichoke chip, like, several times. I feel like it's happened a lot.
Julia: It's a lot of, like, things to describe an appetizer of spinach and artichoke dip. There's tortilla chips.
Amanda: It's true. Anyway, creepy kids.
Eric: Here's the story from Amanda and she writes, “I'm relatively new to podcasting. I have to say this is one of my favorites.”
Julia: Woohoo.
Eric: Being completely obsessed with the Hometown Urban Legends episode, I felt compelled to write after your conversations about sleep activity and creepy children. I find sleep fascinating. So, I will be sharing just some brief stories over the years. I don't think they are too creepy. But the last one is my favorite.
Amanda: Hmm.
Eric: To start, I was younger, around four or five. I would, dun-dun-dun, sleepwalk.
Julia: Oh, Eric, it’s you.
Eric: Now, this only happened about five or so times. And I obviously don't remember any of it being both asleep and too young. But, from what I gathered from my mom, every time I sleep walked, I would get out of bed, walk across the hall to my parents’ room, and just stand next to the bed where my mom was sleeping. To make it even weirder, she slept on the side furthest from the door. So, I would walk around the bed to stand next to her.
Amanda: Oh, god.
Eric: She said she would wake up because she felt like she was being watched or felt my presence. I never said anything. I would just stand there.
Julia: I'm gonna admit something to you guys right now. I used to do this to my mother.
Eric: Oh.
Julia: But, instead, instead of just like standing there, I would kneel down next to her on the floor in bed and just stare at her face until she woke up.
Amanda: Sleeping or awake?
Julia: No. No. I would just do that if I, like, had a bad dream or something like that.
Amanda: That's fine. That's okay. You want support but not to wake up your parent. I get that.
Julia: But I would do it just until my face was right here in front of her and I would just be like, “Mom. Mom. Mom.”
Eric: I mean I don't want to just, like, defend the sleepwalkers.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: Oh, you would wake her up eventually?
Julia: Yes, I would eventually wake her up.
Eric: Okay. Okay. Because, if you just stare at your mom—
Amanda: Waiting.
Eric: —and didn't say anything, I'm gonna say that is way creepier than just sleepwalking.
Julia: I felt guilty about it.
Eric: Because sleepwalking is completely out of the person's control and you seem to have complete control. But you did then wake her up. So, that's, that is fine. I'm, I'm with you on that. I never said anything. I would just stand there. She would ask if I was okay or needed anything and I would never reply. She would then ask if I need to the bathroom and I faintly nodded. She led me to the bathroom. Remember, I'm still asleep during this whole conversation and would, sometimes, pee. Sometimes, nothing would happen. She would then walk me back to my room and put me to bed. And then, when she asked me in the morning if I remembered anything, I always thought she was making it up. I admit this is pretty creepy thing to do, but I have never slept walk since and I can't blame the house, like, with Eric's story, which I have never done.
Amanda: We do. We do.
Eric: Because we have been in that house my entire life. I'm not sure what changed. But I am glad to leave my creepy kid status in the past.
Amanda: Here's the thing, guys. Your mom had to go to work the next day. Like, that's a lot.
Eric: Mhmm.
Julia: Kids are a lot, huh?
Amanda: That's what I hear.
Eric: That's what I've been told. That's why I don’t have any.
Julia: Fair enough. You have dogs that run away instead.
Eric: Yeah, I got dogs that, that might run away, apparently, though.
Amanda: Have I told you guys about when the twins ran away when I was a kid?
Julia: No.
Eric: I think you've told use, but I don't think you've told the listeners.
Julia: Now, please do.
Amanda: So, I'm the oldest of four kids. My youngest two siblings are twins. And, I guess, when they were two, I was eight. I was a Girl Scout. We were selling cookies for the year. And our neighbor around the block had the cookie shipment to her and then she deliver – like, she had us come to her house, get our sales, and, like, bring it out to – whatever. Like, that was the distribution point. And, so, one morning my grandpa came over to take me and my other brother to school. And then, bla, bla. Like, talking, getting ready, getting our lunchbox. Whatever. And mom looks around like, “Where's the twins?” We looked. They're not in the house anymore. And, like, our neighbor then calls us and is like, “Hey, um, the kids are in my house asking for cookies,” because we picked up our Girl Scout cookies a few days before. And they ran over in their footie pajamas. They were like barely confidently walking. And they went over to her house and said cookie. So, that was our, our runaway experience.
Julia: Hell yeah. Do it for the cookie. I get that.
Amanda: Listen, I respect the grift.
Eric: You got to. So, here is a story too. This story involves my old college roommate. We were friends since high school and we decided to brave adulthood together as roommates in college for our freshman year. That's a bit – that is a big risk.
Julia: Yes.
Eric: Well, she's a very big sleep talker. She would often go to bed before me and, every so often, I would hear her mumble incoherently while she was fast asleep. The first time this happened, I was a little spooked. But, after talking to her and realizing this was normal, I was intrigued.
Amanda: [laughs]
Eric: For almost the rest of the year, I would use a sleep recorder app. And the highlight of my mornings was going to the dining hall and editing recordings over breakfast.
Julia: Jesus.
Eric: Most of the thing—
Julia: That’s blackmailing your roommate. That's terrible. They have no control over what they're saying.
Amanda: If the roommate’s in on it and this is consensual and, like, a fun joke between you guys, I get it. But, like, oh, my, that's a big habit.
Eric: That is quite the move. Most of the things she said were in a very fast whisper, nonsensical. But there is one recording that I got loud and clear. For context, we go to the University of Georgia. So, obviously, football is like religion here. Well, after winning one of our home games—
Julia: Oh, boy.
Eric: —that night, in her sleep, she clearly stated, “Go Dogs! Sic ‘em.”
Amanda: [laughs]
Julia: [laughs]
Eric: —which is what we say here at all the football games and just in general, to be honest.
Julia: Oh, that’s really cute.
Eric: I shared that shoot with her and the rest of our friends in the morning and we all got a good laugh.
Julia: That's a good one.
Eric: Lastly – and this is the most impactful dream I have ever had in my life and I don't think I will ever forget it.
Julia: Oh-oh.
Eric: I have had some strange dreams in my life, but this one felt the most realistic of any dream I've had. The others almost always have something that can distinguish them from reality. Example, Mark Hamill and other celebrities have made an appearance in my dream a couple days ago.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: Well, in 2017, my paternal grandfather, we call Nagyapa—
Amanda: Aww.
Eric: —which is Hungarian for grandfather, passed away. This was my senior year of high school and it was only about two weeks before my birthday. He’s very sick and in a hospital up in Maryland. So, I obviously couldn't go. Our last phone call was very emotional as we both knew it was the end. After he passed, I took it really hard and was upset that I couldn't say goodbye to him. A few months later, I was sleeping and had a very strange dream. I jumped and I woke up exactly as I was from my bed at home and walked downstairs. I can't remember why I did this. But, when I walked down and turn the corner, there was nagyapa standing right in front of me.
Amanda: Aww.
Eric: He was wearing the same dark green sweater and goofy grin. I don't remember many words being spoken. But I definitely remember giving him a hug and, perhaps, smelling the faint smell of cigarette smoke that clung to his sweater. Even though I don't remember any dialogue, I knew that I expressed that I loved him and that this was the chance goodbye I never got. I woke up to my pillow soaked in tears and have not seen him since. Keep doing what you're doing because it sure as heck makes my life and many others a lot richer.
Julia: Aww.
Eric: As always, stay creepy. Stay cool.
Amanda: Aww, so sweet.
Julia: Aww. Thank you. That was a very sweet story despite how creepy you are to your mother. Well, I think I have one that might interest us quite a bit. And that is Funeral Home Theater.
Eric: Oh, no. Oh, what?
Amanda: I love it.
Julia: This is from Aston and they write, “Hi, guys. I was just listening to your five-year anniversary special on Theater Superstitions. Happy anniversary. As a theater kid who grew up into a high school theater teacher, I have had a lot of strange and wonderful occurrences while on and off the stage. But I want to tell you about my first strange experience.”
Amanda: Living the dream. Please.
Julia: Living the dream. My mom was heavily involved in a community theater in the next town over from where our house was. I would often be taken along to rehearsals, staff meetings, and set building days. So, I grew to know the theater very well. The building itself was set up a little strange because it used to be a funeral home.
Eric: Ooh.
Amanda: Oh, my god.
Julia: The black box stage was set up where the main parlor and viewing area had been. The lobby where small services were held. The ticket booth used to be the casket lift.
Amanda: Whoa!
Julia: But the worst part was the basement—
Eric: I – hold that.
Amanda: Oh, Julia.
Julia: —where they had to store and work on the bodies.
Eric: But, like, it's a lift. So, like, the, the whole box – the whole box would just go into the basement if that’s the—
Amanda: At the – at nighttime, Eric, you lock up the money by lowering the ticket booth into the basement. It's not the worst idea.
Eric: You know what also I don't like? I don't like the idea of a funeral home closing. Like—
Julia: What happened?
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: —how? Like, how – I feel like – I feel like houses can become funeral homes, but funeral homes can’t become another thing.
Amanda: [laughs]
Eric: Especially because, like, how badly were you running your funeral home? People are always dying more so as human population has grown. So, the fact that you couldn't keep that business alive, ironically, really says something.
Julia: I will say that there is a place in the town that Jake works as a building inspector where it was a funeral home. And then the – you know, the family that ran it – the children didn't want to take over the business. So, they ended up converting it into a home. Just a regular home.
Amanda: Like, for – oh, oh, no.
Julia: Like, a house. Like, a place where people live.
Amanda: Oh, I don't like that.
Eric: Funeral homes are such a weird building.
Julia: Yes. Yes, they are.
Eric: Like, they feel – it’s, it's weird because they are – they're supposed to feel like a house.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: But they're not anything like a house.
Julia: Uh-um.
Eric: They’re just like seven large rooms. I do like that they all have like an awning for like accepting visitors.
Julia: Yes.
Eric: That would be nice to have.
Julia: That would be. I want my house to have an awning. Anyway, so, I just want to reiterate the worst part was the basement, which was where they stored and worked on the dead bodies.
Eric: Yes, of course.
Julia: The ladies dressing room used to be where the giant refrigerator had been. So, of course, it has cold spots in more ways than one.
Amanda: My god.
Julia: That was the line that made me pick this email by the way.
Eric: Worse places I've ever heard of.
Amanda: I do want to share really briefly that I was recently looking up the, like, career qualifications for medical examiners because it's like really interesting how that is not a sort of position that is like regulated. Like, all you have to be is a doctor and then it's sort of like optional what kind of training you get, which is really interesting because it's like a big part of the judicial system. And I just ended up on a career website that was like, oh, median salary. You know, like, places where these jobs are. Career outlook, very strong. Like, there were 4 percent more medical examiners needed this year than last year. And I was like, “Oh, no.”
Eric: I can see the headline now, “30 Under 30 Luminary Leaves a Podcasting Company to Become Medical Examiner.”
Amanda: No.
Julia: So, to finish out the description of this building, the front half was the dressing rooms and makeup stations. And the back half was a prop and set storage. So, one day, when I was about seven years old, I was pulled along to a production meeting between my mom and the director. They were discussing props that they would like to use and suggested this antique teapot that they knew was in the prop room in the basement. So, they asked me if I could go get it. So, I scuttled off to the basement as a seven-year-old in a former funeral home. As I was coming down the stairs, I heard someone walking amongst the makeup mirrors. I came around the corner and saw an older gentleman in a loosely fitting suit looking a little stressed This wasn't an unfamiliar sight as I was around actors and costumes all the time. And stress is not a foreign feeling for your average actor. He noticed me and glared at me looking the angriest I have ever seen a human get. I said sorry and excuse me as I hurried past and grabbed the teapot from the back. As I was heading out and back up, I noticed that the mirror the man had been sitting at had the lights turned off. All the other lights were on.
Eric: Mhmm.
Julia: And the man was gone. I went back upstairs and said something to the effect of, “I liked the man’s suit. Was it for the show?” My mom and the director looked at each other concerned. There wasn't supposed to be anyone else at the theater at that time. After a brief sweep to make sure that someone hadn't broken in, the director asked me what the man looked like. So, I described him and she let out a sigh of relief. She then explained to me that the Funeral Director and Undertaker, Mr. Nieman, died in 1954 and still lives in the theater. It seemed like everyone knew about Mr. Nieman and accepted his presence there. It was spooky, but seven-year-old me was pretty pumped to have seen a ghost. A couple of years later, I was talking to an actor who had been at the theater for a long time about experiences that people had had with Mr. Neiman and I told him about mine. He looked very concerned because Mr. Neiman is supposed to live in the costume loft in the attic and has previously expressed his hatred of the basement and has never been seen down here. So, I don't know who I met in the basement that afternoon, but I hope he's doing okay. Thanks for reading, guys. Stay creepy. Stay cool and all of that goodness.
Amanda: Well, I'm so glad that we got to read some in-depth stories in this episode. I also have some creepy stories from Colombia from Paula.
Julia: Ooh.
Amanda: But I am gonna save that for our Patreon additional bonus Urban Legend Episode going out on the last day of the month.
Julia: Woohoohoo. All right. I'm excited to hear them.
Amanda: Well. Thank you everybody so, so much for writing in. We love reading these emails. We love hearing from you. It makes my day to see all of these creepy, creepy stories in my email. So, thank you so, so much.
Eric: If you're a mathematician—
Julia: Okay.
Eric: —I'd love for you to figure out some kind of coefficient about the number of creepy children.
Amanda: That will be great.
Eric: To figure out, like, how it scales logarithmically or exponential or whatever you – whatever you – I would just love—
Amanda: A graph.
Eric: —some parentheses, some brackets—
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: —some Xs. Anything like that that explains how the number of creepy childhood affects us on a day-to-day life.
Amanda: None of us knows enough about statistics or math to, like, fact check you. So, you could honestly say whatever and I really want to see it and will feel legitimized by any combination – any alphanumeric combination involving, like, an equal sign and parentheses.
Eric: I really just want Julia to wake up the Thursday after this episode and her entire notification just, just completely nonsensical mathematical equations on Twitter.
Julia: Bonus points if there's graphs or charts—
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: —because I don't understand math.
Amanda: Now, that'd be great.
Eric: Yeah.
Amanda: And, if you’re a medical examiner, tell me about your career. That would be great.
Eric: Unrelated to the topic
Amanda: If I can't make selfish requests on my own podcast, Eric, where can I make them?
Eric: No, I mean this is the exact place, place to do it.
Amanda: All right. Well, we love you guys so, so much. We hope you're hanging in there. We will see you next week with a brand new episode. And, in the meantime—
Julia: Stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
Theme Music
Amanda: Thanks again to our sponsors. At betterhelp.com/spirits, you can get 10 percent off your first month of counseling. At calm.com/spirits, you can get 40 percent off a Calm premium subscription. And, at thirdlove.com/spirits, you can get 20 percent off your first order.
Amanda: Okay. Cool. I’ll stop then.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil