Episode 171: Your Urban Legends XXXII - Unliving Document
/We’re back, we’ve got cider, and we’re telling your creepiest and coolest stories. Featuring stories about why you don’t talk trash about witches, our spinoff law podcast, haunted road trip, horses haunting homes, and the return of Team Ignorant.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about mentions of suicide, invasion, witch trials and executions, doctor malpractice, unjust laws, family massacres, animal abuse (21:16-21:42), and unexplained medical conditions.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends Harpy Hour Podcast!
- Live Shows: We’re coming to Boston in May and Potterless is visiting New Orleans in April! Get tickets now at multitude.productions/live
- Multitude: Join the MultiCrew at multicrew.club, and check out Next Stop in your podcast player or nextstopshow.com!
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Find Us Online
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Transcript
Amanda:
Welcome to Spirits, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia:
And I'm Julia.
Amanda:
And this is Episode 171, Your Urban Legends: Number 32.
Julia:
Can you believe we've done 32 of these? It feels like more.
Amanda:
It does feel like more. It feels like as many years as I have been alive, plus several, so I'm pretty into it.
Julia:
Yeah. No, I love it. I enjoy it.
Amanda:
It's very fun. I also really appreciate that we get to record an extra entire episode every dang month for our Patrons. It is so much fun to do, and I like to save sort of an interesting on, like atypical ones, for those episodes, because it's a little more relaxed, and it's very fun.
Julia:
You know what, I forgot about those. That's why it feels like we've done more. It's be we have done more.
Amanda:
That's true. Speaking of which, Julia, we would love to welcome Mladin and Tifo, our newest Patrons. They join the ranks of such distinguished folks as our supporting producer-level Patrons, Philip, Nikki, Tyree 00:00:54, Meghan, Debra, Molly, Skyla, Samantha, Sammy, Neil, Jessica, Phil Fresh, and our legend-level Patrons, Clara, Lacey, Brittany, Josie, Kylie, Morgan, Kyla the Husky, Beam Me Up Scotty, Audra, Necrofancy, Mark, Mr. Folk, Sarah, and Jack Marie.
Julia:
Necrofancy's a very good name.
Amanda:
Extraordinarily good.
Julia:
Almost as good as the Eastciders we had that we brought back from Austin, Texas with us, that we enjoyed for this episode. And if you stay tuned after the refill, you can hear what flavors we chose.
Amanda:
Absolutely awesome. There are not several Austin Eastciders stickers on the Multitude fridge, and I very much appreciate it.
Julia:
They're very cute.
Amanda:
We would also love to give a quick PSA: so if you listen to Spirits on Spotify, a very small number of you are listening to a clone of the Spirits show. There were for some reason two of them listed in Spotify, and the one that is a clone is being unpublished later this week. So we weren't able, unfortunately, to copy any of the subscribers from the small clone into the regular show, so if you listen on Spotify, next Wednesday you check your app and there's no new episode, just search for Spirits and subscribe again, and you'll be with the rest of us in the non-haunted version of Spirits on Spotify.
Julia:
The non-ghost version. The non-creepy version.
Amanda:
I mean, I'm wondering now if all the urban legend emails that we get about creepy things happening while listening to Spirits happened while listening to the ghost Spotify.
Julia:
Oh, that is a good point. It might be that.
Amanda:
It's a very good idea. If you, by the way, have any spooky experiences while listening to Spirits, you know that we want to know about them.
Julia:
Absolutely. I want to hear all about them.
Amanda:
Well Julia, with that out of the way, would you like to tell us what you've been listening to or reading or watching this week?
Julia:
I'm listening to a new podcast, Amanda. I'm listening to Harpy Hour! podcast, which I feel has a very similar energy to our own. It features three best friends, Tracey, Liz, and Steph, and they talk about each week stories that got them interested in history or science or pop culture, and basically everything. Tracey tends to focus more on pop culture, musical theater, and Disney stuff. And then Liz kind of leans into the more weird history and science stuff, which I feel like is more my alley. And then Steph does medicine and conspiracy theories. Again, super into conspiracy theories. That's me. So you can find them at harpyhourpodcast.com, and they come out with new episodes every Tuesday, and it's a bunch of fun. If you like Spirits, I think you're going to like this.
Amanda:
What a cool pregame for Spirits Wednesdays. And speaking of getting ready for Spirits episodes, we are doing next week for our Myth Movie Night, the 1984 movie Splash. This was suggested by our Patrons, and we're so excited. Julia tells me that it has Tom Hanks and Eugene Levy and John Candy and Daryl Hannah in it. And I am extremely excited to watch this bananas movie about mermaids.
Julia:
Yeah, I genuinely don't think I've seen this movie in its entirety before, so I'm very excited to revisit it and get a feel for how mythological it is, and talk about some mermaids.
Amanda:
Absolutely. If you have favorite mermaid media that you would love for us to talk about, if we have seen or read it before, let us know on Twitter.
Julia:
Meanwhile, between now and then, you should check out our other Multi shows, the shows of Multitude Productions. I am really excited about the new season of Join the Party, not just because I'm a player, but because it's a bunch of fun, and I loved Join the Party, even before I was on the show. And I think that y'all will really, really like the kind of world-building that we're doing right now, getting started into the new season.
Amanda:
Yes, if you are curious about how we are building a world to set the campaign in, or how we choose our characters and this wonderful map-making game that we're going to play as a sneak preview, shh, don't tell anybody, check out Join the Party. Also, over on Potterless, Mike has been finishing the last movie of the Harry Potter franchise, movie eight. I remember so vividly watching this movie myself and just sobbing throughout it, to be frank. So if you want to hear his opinions, and Kelly, his now wife, and Ty Stafford talk all about it, head on over to Potterless.
Amanda:
And of course, on HORSE, it is March Madness. And even though the boys hate the NCAA, there is always more drama, more great stories, and more basketball history for you to enjoy, whether or not you like the sport whatsoever. If you like sort of stories and behind the scenes info and discussions on the cultural impact of human activities like sports, you'll really enjoy HORSE.
Julia:
And if you haven't subscribed yet to our new audio sitcom NEXT STOP, you should, and you should keep an eye on your feed soon, because I think there's going to be something fun that's going to drop soon. Wink, wink.
Amanda:
It is. Every time I talk about what it is, I just laugh. So we hope you enjoy it. Well, I think that is plenty to keep you busy between the end of this episode and next week's edition of Spirits, so without further ado, enjoy Spirits podcast episode 171, Your Urban Legends: Number 32.
Amanda:
Guys, let me take you back in time.
Julia:
Oh, okay.
Amanda:
I'm going to take you both back to an email we received in June 2017. Believe it or not, we have been podcasting that long. And also-
Julia:
That's too long.
Eric:
It seems fake.
Amanda:
... back to the 1600s. Are you ready?
Eric:
Oh, boy.
Julia:
Oh, okay.
Eric:
Wow. I was ready for the first part.
Julia:
Not the second one.
Eric:
I did not expect the 1600s.
Julia:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Amanda:
Wonderful.
Eric:
No one does.
Amanda:
Full of surprises.
Julia:
No one expects the 1600s.
Amanda:
Never. This comes from Leslie. It's titled, Scottish Witches: My Mental AF Hometown Backstory. "Hi, guys. I adored your latest Urban Legend Roundup, which I listened to whilst meandering through my local woods. They are called Boden Boo, which is basically a really silly old Gaelic/Scots term for hill, or some shit. I'll check the sign next time I go."
Amanda:
Now it has been almost three years, so hopefully she has had the chance.
Julia:
Hopefully, you have checked the sign.
Amanda:
Yes. "I decided, given the number of old trees with creepy faces, weird seats cut into stumps, and a large nearby bridge which sadly sees many deaths, that there would likely be some bad vibes or creepy stories around the area. So I did some digging and was not disappointed. So let me set the scene back in 1696. Although the village had been inhabited to some extent since the Vikings invaded, the town Erskine is from the words ers and skine, apparently, which means head on a knife. Obviously, the whole area just mental AF and destined for badassery."
Eric:
Head on a knife.
Amanda:
Head on a knife, baby.
Julia:
Oh, I love head on a knife.
Eric:
Fuck yeah, let's go.
Amanda:
"The Paisley witches, also known as the Bargarran witches, or the Ren"-
Eric:
There's so much happening already. I just want to ... Just already, we've got a Viking invasion-
Amanda:
We do.
Eric:
... a head on a knife, witches, chairs carved into tree stumps. There's already a lot of different, varied spooky stuff. I'm into it.
Amanda:
We kind of glided over the chairs in the tree stumps, but don't sit on the fairy chair, y'all.
Julia:
Yeah. No, it's the devil's chair. Don't do it.
Amanda:
"So the Paisley witches, AKA the Bargarran witches, or the Renfrewshire witches, were tried in Paisley, Renfrewshire, central Scotland, in 1697. Eleven-year-old Christian Shaw, daughter of the Laird of Bargarran" ... Bargarran is an area within Erskine, just FYI. Listen, Scotland, I'm doing my best here ... "complained of being tormented by some local witches. They included one of her family's servants, Catherine Campbell, whom she reported to her mother after witnessing her steal a drink of milk."
Amanda:
So Christian sounds fucking savage.
Julia:
Okay, so here's the thing. You know how we love or also hate urban legends where there's too much detail happening. It's like, I want to hear secondhand what happened for my urban legend. This one has a lot of detail.
Amanda:
It does.
Julia:
And it makes it creepier.
Amanda:
It does.
Eric:
Oh, yeah.
Amanda:
And it's also 300 years old.
Eric:
That's the thing I hate. I hate specific times, but I hate specific recent times. So this, for me, is on the level, because it wasn't like, "This happened to me 17 days ago." Too soon. This is fine. We're 300 years out.
Amanda:
So Julia, you'll be pleased to know that it was on 17 August, 1696 that Christian saw Catherine steal a drink of milk. She then reported the theft to her mother, whereupon Campbell cursed her, wishing that the devil would "haul her soul through hell," quite literally, crying here over spilt milk.
Eric:
Through hell; where's the destination?
Julia:
Just all through it. Circles.
Eric:
Maybe just all around, like through hell, but not like to the other side of hell, and now you're in some other, nicer place.
Amanda:
I feel like it's your not just going to be in hell. I'm going to take you all around, baby. You can't rest. It's just all around.
Eric:
You're going to see it all.
Amanda:
Four days later, wee Christian encountered Agnes Naismith, an old woman reputed to be a witch. The following day, Shaw became violently ill with fits similar to the symptoms reported a few years earlier in the American Salem witch trials of 1693. After eight weeks, Shaw's parents took her to see the eminent Glasgow physician Matthew Brisbane, who could find no cause for her symptoms. For eight days after her visit, Shaw seemed to have recovered, but then "the fits returned with increased violence." She would become as stiff as a corpse and be senseless and motionless.
Julia:
I don't trust any doctor before, honestly, 1990.
Amanda:
Yeah, when did we start believing that HIV was real? I'd say like 1998, maybe.
Julia:
Okay, yeah. Before 2000. Let's just give it a nice, round number. Don't trust any doctor before 2000.
Amanda:
Shaw's parents-
Eric:
Seems too soon, but you for it. I'll let you guys have this one.
Amanda:
Thanks. Shaw's parents took her back to Dr. Brisbane, and by the time they arrived back in Glasgow, she had begun to pull out of her mouth balls of hair she claimed had been put there by those who were afflicting her. Soon, she began to pull other trash out of her mouth including straw, coal, gravel, chicken feathers, and cinders.
Julia:
You know, other trash.
Eric:
She also did a true crime podcast.
Amanda:
Leslie adds, "Was this a metaphor, since she was talking trash? Or maybe she's just, you know, pretending."
Julia:
Oh, shit. Don't talk trash.
Amanda:
During her fits, she was sometimes heard to be talking to the invisible Catherine Campbell, pleading for a return to their former friendship.
Amanda:
Now, the way this kid sounds, I bet Catherine was not really friends with her, and just worked for her family, and had to pretend to like her for money.
Julia:
Yep, sounds right.
Amanda:
With Brisbane unable to prove any explanation for any explanation for Shaw's condition, her family and their local parish minister concluded she must be possessed and tormented by witches, a common occurrence in England and Scotland, and a central element in the Salem witch trials a few years earlier. The church set up a weekly fast and prayer meeting, and Shaw's father appealed to the authorities that those named by his daughter as tormenting her should be arrested. She had initially identified only Catherine Campbell and Agnes Naismith, who was just an old lady they asked for help, by the way.
Julia:
Yeah. No, bad.
Amanda:
But as time wore on, she implicated others, and eventually 35 were accused.
Eric:
That's a lot of people.
Amanda:
Teenage girls are bad.
Eric:
But here's the thing, where was that hair in the mouth coming from?
Amanda:
Don't know. It's a good question.
Eric:
Someone's putting it there.
Amanda:
Don't know. Where did she get it from, though? Was she just cutting her hair and it just became shorter every time she pretended?
Julia:
Maybe she just kept sticking hair from her hairbrush in her mouth. I don't know. Gross.
Eric:
These are the questions that a good detective would figure out.
Julia:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Eric:
But instead, witches.
Julia:
Sure.
Amanda:
Well, the definitely doubled down and committed to the bit, because six people were hanged and then burned on the gallow green in Paisley on 10 June, 1697. The last-
Julia:
Come on. Come on.
Eric:
Sometimes, it's okay to not commit to the bit.
Julia:
Don't.
Amanda:
The last mass execution for witchcraft in Western Europe. Don't worry, guys, it ended there, only 300 years ago.
Julia:
Oh, thank God.
Eric:
Just Western Europe, though.
Amanda:
Catherine, after having been carried, struggling and screaming, to the gallows, "called down the wrath of God and the devil" on her accusers before being dispatched. Margaret Fulton appeared to have become insane and "spoke cheerfully about visits to elfland and the abode of the fairies on the backs of magical horses."
Julia:
Oh, no.
Amanda:
I know.
Julia:
Oh, no.
Eric:
Wait, did she call down the wrath of the devil and a god?
Amanda:
Yes, she sure did.
Julia:
Hell, yeah.
Eric:
That's a move.
Amanda:
It is a move.
Julia:
Working both sides.
Amanda:
I really respect it. So among the others, Margaret Lang admitted to consorting with the devil, but said she'd renounced sin and was reconciled with God. Agnes Naismith laid a dying woman's curse on everyone present and their descendants. For many years afterwards, every tragedy in the town was blamed on the witches' curse.
Julia:
Hell, yeah. Sounds like you deserved it. I don't know.
Amanda:
Wee Christian appears to have escaped scot-free, apart from the aftertaste of feathers and trash. She grew up to be a successful business woman who manufactured thread. Lydia adds, "because she was so good at spinning a yarn, I guess."
Julia:
Fucking capitalism.
Amanda:
I know. In May 2008, a memorial was built at Maxwellton Cross in Paisley, the site where the witches' remains were buried. It replaced the original horseshoe marking the spot, which had disappeared during the 1970s, as had its replacement later.
Amanda:
Now guys, would you steal a horseshoe marking the site of a witch's death?
Julia:
No.
Amanda:
No.
Eric:
Would I?
Julia:
No, I wouldn't.
Eric:
I wouldn't steal a horseshoe, regardless.
Amanda:
Eric, that is correct. That is the correct response. I'm glad we're all on the same page here.
Eric:
I just don't need one. I just don't need a horsehoe.
Julia:
Different reasons, I feel like, between you and Amanda, there.
Amanda:
Well, this bronze memorial had a stainless steel horseshoe embedded in it, which I think is pretty smart, and includes the inscription "Pain Inflicted, Suffering Endured, Injustice Done." A campaign was launched in 2008 petitioning the Scottish Parliament to pardon all of the 4000 men, women and children prosecuted under the 16th and 17th-century witchcraft laws, but legislators argued it was inappropriate to pardon those tried and convicted under the laws of their time.
Amanda:
Come on, guys.
Julia:
What? No.
Eric:
But that's how every pardon works. You're always convicted under the laws of your time. No one's been convicted of future law yet.
Julia:
And there's a reason those laws don't exist anymore. You can say that the laws were unjust, and that therefore rationale says that the laws in which they are prosecuted, it's bullshit. I lost the train there, but it's bullshit.
Eric:
We definitely got weirdly into a law-cast for a second there.
Amanda:
And the Scottish Parliament, y'all hold things down. Y'all are doing good work a lot of the time. So, too bad. "Well, needless to say, Lydia say, "I was not disappointed in my search for local history. Just for context, this all took place a few years after the Glencoe Massacre, where the Campbell clan massacred every man, woman, and child of the MacDonald clan as they slept. MacDonald is my mom's maiden name, and literally every other name mentioned in this story has so many descendants still living in the area, including Catherine Campbell there. It made me rethink how much bad blood there is between the clans, and how easy it was to turn on one another. I mean, I guess we do this now, but we don't go poking their limbs into the pyre, so I guess progress?"
Amanda:
That is Scottish witches, mental AF. I think they certainly were, Leslie. Thank you for writing in, three years ago.
Eric:
Do you want to go next, Julia?
Julia:
Sure. I have a much more lighthearted one, which is captioned as Eric approved / not too creepy. And this is from Kelly, and the subject line is: That Day We Drove Through a Time Bubble, Stole a Haunted Painting, and Went to a Dinosaur Museum.
Amanda:
Extraordinary.
Eric:
Well, oh boy.
Julia:
Sounds like quite an adventure, and I kind of want to have this adventure. Can we do this, guys, like find a time bubble, buy a haunted painting, then dinosaur museum?
Eric:
Wait, did they buy a haunted painting, or did they steal a haunted painting?
Julia:
I'm sorry, they stole it.
Amanda:
Excellent.
Julia:
We can just buy one. We don't have to commit a crime.
Eric:
We could just buy a haunted painting. I mean, I've down for whatever, I guess.
Julia:
I'm down to clown.
Amanda:
We did just complete a team trip to Austin, and then a road trip to Houston, and I feel like we did get into some really good adventures. Got a lot of tacos, tried some new things, went to a big rest stop. So I'm down.
Eric:
Yeah, those Buc-ee Nug-ees, from Buc-ee's, in Texas, are delicious. I just had them last night for the first time. Kelsey finally busted them open. If you're ever in Texas, Brad is going to hate to hear this, you've got to go with these Buc-ee's; they're great.
Julia:
They're like sour cream and onion, but also kettle corn. It was extremely weird.
Eric:
Well, Kelsey got a different flavor. Hers were more like buffalo-ey.
Amanda:
It's kind of like a Chex Mix with MSG, in the very best way. It's so good. I got caramel corn, and I think Eric got a pulled pork sandwich. Oh my God, they're so good.
Julia:
Yeah. No, it was delicious. I got some beef jerky, and it was great.
Amanda:
And Topo Chico in plastic bottles.
Julia:
Incredible.
Amanda:
Topo Chico.
Julia:
Okay, back to the story, or to begin the story. "I've been recently catching up on your podcast. Never realized how dearly I missed it until I was a solid 80 episodes behind. Like the prodigal son, I come home again, and I've been binging to get back up to speed ever since. I actually thought about getting caught up after reconnecting with my friend Morgan, who is the friend in the story I'm about to share. She and I always love talking about thing, spirits, fey, and celestial, as often as possible, so it seemed like the perfect time to share the story of how we inexplicably entered a time bubble, stole a cursed object, and then fled to the safety of a dinosaur museum.
Julia:
"So my friend had a project for a class that required her to go to the dinosaur museum that's about a two-hour drive from our small-town university in the middle of nowhere, Alberta. She planned to go on a Sunday where I didn't actually have any homework or studying to do, so why no make it a day trip and go see some fossils? The day was sometime in late fall, and it was already a little bit snowy and a lot a bit overcast, because Canada. As we were driving further and further south, the towns around us gave way to villages that gave way to hamlets, and before we knew it, there were really no signs of civilization at all. We were left alone on an entirely empty highway."
Julia:
I love the way that our listeners write things. It's so good.
Julia:
"Along with being in the most unpopulated place I had ever been, we were driving through the densest fog I've ever seen. We were vaguely chatting about how spooky the fog was, as I began to catch sight of little bodies of water off the highway the were frozen over and had a sickly green hue to them. Alberta has a gazillion-and-one lakes and ponds, but I've never actually seen any freeze that unearthly color. We were officially spooked out by the vibe in the air, so naturally, we turned on Welcome to Night Vale, and proceeded to creep ourselves out even more as we drove into the void."
Julia:
For people who don't know Welcome to Night Vale, it is a creepy town fiction podcast.
Amanda:
If you don't know Welcome to Night Vale and you listen to Spirits, you got to get on that.
Julia:
Yeah, seriously.
Eric:
I don't like the green. I'm just going to start with I don't like the green, we'll see how that plays out later.
Julia:
Neither did our writer, so okay.
Julia:
"Somewhere between our town and the museum, we saw a huge sign on the highway that said, 'Take a trip back in time: Rowley, 5 kilometers ahead.' My friend, being the spontaneous queen that she is, immediately went, 'Yep,' and we followed the exit to Rowley. What we found was a ghost town, another thing that Alberta has a gazillion-and-one of. But the thing that weirded us out was that there was no people. I know this seems paradoxical, since ghost town equals no people, but it just didn't make sense. We had looked it up in the minutes it took to get to Rowley, and apparently it hd a population of eight, and was more of a ghost town turned tourist attraction than a true ghost town. The website said the town had spend thousands of dollars renovating, trying to get people to visit and bring more businesses in.
Julia:
"What we had entered was in no way touristy or new. The buildings had peeling paint and cracking wood. The air was dead still and all the doors were chained up and looked like they had been for years. We slowly drove through town, and the only thing we could find was a cat sitting on a porch of a completely worn down house, that didn't move the entire time we were in Rowley, other than swiveling its head occasionally."
Eric:
No.
Julia:
"Eventually, we parked the car and got out, because why not stretch our legs in the creepy ghost town?"
Eric:
Lots of reasons.
Julia:
Yes, so many reasons.
Eric:
Lots of reasons why not to do that.
Julia:
"We wandered around and tried to open the front door to the town hall, figuring that if reception or a tourist services was anywhere, it would be there. No such luck; locked again. We continued to wander until we sotted a really old looking shed that had its door loosely chained, yet propped open by something. We walked a little bit closer and saw that wedged in between the door and the frame was a painting. This painting was so"-
Amanda:
It's trying to get out. Nope.
Julia:
"-though not because of its contents, but because it was so much brighter and newer than its surroundings. It was sitting in the snow, yet had no water damage. I peeked inside the shed and saw that everything else was run down and covered in cobwebs, but this painting looked clean and bright. I was telling my friend how weird it was that someone just decided to prop open this door with a painting, as she snatched it up from the door and started running back to her car with it, which I offered a dazed, 'Hello? What are we doing, stealing a painting?' She only giggled maniacally and off we popped out of the town."
Julia:
Bad, bad, extremely bad.
Eric:
That is theft.
Amanda:
Yeah, but you know what?
Eric:
100% theft.
Amanda:
It also-
Eric:
Is it, though?
Amanda:
So this is the thing. Living in New York City, and I'm sure lots of places, if a thing is just left there, it's kind of there for you to take. And there is definitely a gray area between like when I was moving into my last apartment building, I put my bamboo on a table in the front hallway as I went back to the car for more stuff. And then by the time I got back, it was gone because I later learned that that was the building's free table, and so I put a little note like, "I'm sorry, someone took my bamboo, and then they brought it back." But there's also, of course, the obvious trash heaps on the curb, and you leave whatever furniture you don't need anymore. 14 second later, it's taken by some college student or someone like me, who enjoys garbage picking. So I think that if the building looks abandoned and the painting is there, and it's just there for all the world to see, and there are no people around ... I don't know, is it stealing?
Julia:
Yeah. No, as a fellow garbage picker, I say free game. It's outside.
Eric:
It is stealing, but it's not a crime.
Amanda:
No.
Eric:
And I know that that's hard to parse, but it's definitely ... or maybe it's not stealing, but it is technically a crime, so.
Amanda:
I think it's the opposite. Yeah, I think it's not stealing, even though it might technically be a crime.
Julia:
This has really turned into a law cast, and I'm here for it.
Eric:
What's the name of our spooky law cast? What's a spooky law term?
Amanda:
The Founders' Intentions.
Julia:
That's a pretty good one.
Amanda:
A Living Document.
Eric:
Living Document is good.
Julia:
Unliving Document.
Eric:
Unliving Document.
Amanda:
Oh, there it is. Great.
Julia:
All right, finishing up with the story. "As we drove, I looked at the painting more closely and saw it was a painting of one of the barns in Rowley behind a field of daisies. The thing was, the barn looked new in the painting and the style and color palette suggested this painting was old. How had this painting of Rowley from the glory days survived this long, and why was it so pristine when everything else in the town was falling to pieces? I felt like I was looking at some kind of slice of time frozen in canvas. I tossed it in the back and we ignored the ghostly vibes for a few hours, once we arrived at the dinosaur museum. I bought a plesiosaur plush at the museum gift shop, and we started the long trip home."
Julia:
Just ignore the creepy painting that you took from a creepy town. That's fine.
Amanda:
Yes, this artifact of the town's history, impeccably preserved.
Julia:
Definitely not a Dorian Gray situation with this town. All right.
Julia:
"On the way back however, the creepiness continued. It was around 7:00 PM, and we decided to pull into another hamlet as we debated finding a pub to get a little bit of dinner. The hamlet was much more densely populated and had a closer to around 100 residents. But once again, we found ourselves completely alone. We parked in front of the pub that had its lights on, and peered in the windows, but we couldn't see anyone: no one behind the bar, no one sitting at the tables, not a soul making or eating food.
Julia:
"We drove down the row of shops to find most of them lit, but all of them empty. We also went up and down the residential streets, and not a single house had any lights on or had any indication of life. Even for my friend, that was enough creepiness, and we noped our way back to our university before deciding we had found an entirely cursed region. To this day, I think we passed through some kind of time bubble. Oh, and the painting? It vanished. My friend kept it in her parent's garage for a long time after she couldn't stand to have it in her room anymore. Her parents went in to gut the garage one summer, and she asked them where the painting had gone, to which they responded they had never seen the painting.
Julia:
"The thing about it was, that as everything had been taken out of the garage, they were sorting and packing and stowing everything very meticulously, since they were planning to sell the property soon. I don't know how this painting, which was fairly large, could have slipped under the radar, unless some kind of time warp magic? My friend thinks it might have warped back to its place in the shed in Rowley, and I just try not to think about it at all."
Amanda:
Oh, what a delightful story.
Julia:
And it ends with, "Stay creepy, stay cool. Stay out of Rowley, whatever you do." It's extremely good.
Amanda:
That was more lighthearted. Thank you, Julia.
Eric:
This story is titled, "The Enchanted Creatures," and it comes to us from Jeanine. I will say there is slight warning for a kid being a little mean to a wild animal, but nothing terrible. But if that bothers you, maybe skip ahead five or so minutes.
Female:
Great.
Eric:
"So I was in the Philippines, visiting my family last summer."
Amanda:
Philippines, yes! Great start.
Julia:
Hell yeah, Philippines.
Eric:
"And it was one of those days where we hiked deep into the island to swim in the natural sprigs and frolic in the water falls. 10 minutes into the hike, I found a hermit crab just walking down the trail path like, hey, this is totally normal, which would be if it wasn't for the fact that the beach was the exact opposite direction, and it was at the bottom of a cliff. So I thought, how did this crab get here? And I called over to my cousin, and she said, 'Don't touch it. Ignore it.'
Eric:
"And so I pressed why she was so freaked out about it. Apparently, it was a uncle of her uncle. When he was a little boy, he would play on the beach a lot. And one day, he found a frog at the beach. Not the correct habitat for a frog. And what did he decide to do? Like any normal little boy would, he proceeded to play with the frog, which included burying the frog a little, tossing the frog into the air and catching it, just kind of being a dick to the animal."
Julia:
Don't be dicks to animals.
Amanda:
Don't be dicks to animals.
Eric:
"Eventually, he had to go inside for dinner, so he spared the frog and let it go."
Eric:
That's as bad as the animals abuse gets in this story.
Amanda:
Great.
Eric:
So nothing worse happens.
Eric:
"For the following days or weeks, I don't remember the time span, but since the frog incident, he started to feel chest pain and felt like he couldn't breathe, and felt all sorts of body aches. And then exactly when it was dinner time, the symptoms stopped as if nothing happened. My uncle's uncle's parents," that's a lot, so many generations away, "went to the local witch doctor and asked about it, and the witch doctor said that the frog that was being abused was an enchanted creature, and an animal that roams a biome that it usually isn't found in, and it protects the area."
Julia:
Oh, okay. So the creature is an animal you wouldn't typically find I that area. That's how you know that it's a creepy thing.
Eric:
"The frog cursed him, making him suffer the pains that the frog had endured. And the only reason the kid was spared was that he let the frog go at dinnertime, only to start the wonderful cycle of pain all over again the next day. My cousin didn't explain what happened next, if he managed to atone or if he had to suffer the suffocation and chest pains from noon to dinner time for the rest of his life. Regardless, I found it creepy, albeit I'm still a skeptic. Obviously, never mess with animals, period, enchanted creatures or not.
Eric:
"I was curious about the enchanted creatures and looked them up to see if there was anything else about it, but the only thing I found somewhat similar were diwata. Essentially, they're dryads that protect natural creations like forests, rivers, et cetera. So I guess that's what I came across in the forest. In the end, I highly encourage you not to touch wildlife, just don't mess with animals in general. Keep up the great work. I already have proclaimed the amazingness that is Spirits to my friends. Have a wonderful day. Jeanine."
Julia:
I really like that one. One, I love the idea of an animal not being where it's supposed to be, because that is kind of a weird thing. One of my favorite things was recently our friend Andrea sent us a picture of just a possum clinging to her apartment door.
Eric:
Oh, boy.
Julia:
And I was like, "Oh, buddy, you probably shouldn't be there."
Amanda:
Hello, friend.
Julia:
But luckily, Andrea didn't mess with it, and it wasn't a problem.
Eric:
Yeah, I like that maybe if we're going big mythology thoughts, that it's like a shapeshifting creature that just got into the wrong shape, doesn't know the area very well, thought they were dressing for the weather correctly. But it's like, oh, you're a hermit crab in the forest. That's not right.
Amanda:
Or it's dressed kind of like helping the creatures who shouldn't be in charge of protecting their own home, like it's a visitor. And I really enjoy that.
Julia:
Yeah. No, love that story. Extremely cute. Thank you for telling us it, Eric.
Amanda:
You guys want a refill?
Eric:
I would love one.
Julia:
Amanda, we were recently in Texas for a wedding, as you well know. And I was very concerned about the fact that I did not have appropriate outfits for Texas weather. But luckily, Amanda, right before I left for my trip, I got a shipment from Stitch Fix.
Eric:
It's so good. The best kind of mail to get.
Julia:
And Stitch Fix, if you don't know already, is an online personal styling service that delivers your favorite clothing, shoes, and accessories directly to you. They have brands that you know and love, plus exclusive styles you can't find anywhere else. I recently wore a shirt to a baby shower, and one of my husband's cousins was like, "I own that shirt."
Julia:
I was like, "Is it also from Stitch Fix?"
Julia:
And they were like, "Yes." It was very exciting. We bonded over that moment. So all you have to do is complete a style profile, and then an expert personal stylist will send you a handpicked box based on your style and your preferences. With Stitch Fix, everyone can look their best. They have fashion solutions for everyone, all over the U.S., and now in the U.K.
Julia:
And there's no subscription required, so you can pick between automatic shipments or getting pieces on demand, and shipping, exchange, and returns are always free. And the $20 styling fee is automatically applied towards anything you keep from your box. So you keep a shirt, that $20 goes immediately toward that shirt.
Amanda:
Exactly. Discover new styles and find unique pieces with Stitch Fix today at stitchfix.com/spirits, to get 25% off when you keep everything in your box. That's stitchfix.com/spirits.
Julia:
Stitchfix.com/spirits. Amanda, I want to tell you about Motherland, which is a new show that is premiering Wednesday, March 18th on Freeform. And basically, the concept is what if soldiers in the United States were actually witches? So on Motherland: For Salem, that's exactly the way it is. In a witch army, the women are the ones with power. It is a new original TV series on Freeform. It's from the creators of Claws and the executive producers of Succession, so you know it's going to be good. Over 300 years ago, witches made a deal to end their persecution. In exchange for their freedom, they would become the country's front line of defense. Motherland: Fort Salem takes place in modern-day America and follows three new cadets as they turn their immense power into weapons. From basic training to learning how to bring the full fury and destruction of an actual tornado against the enemy.
Julia:
And their is one hell of an enemy: a chilling terrorist group known as The Spree has begun to tear the country and the world apart. These young women are our only hope. They were born witches, they will be made heroes. Motherland: Fort Salem, again, premieres Wednesday, March 18th on Freeform.
Amanda:
Amazing. And finally, Julia, we are sponsored by one of the ways that I am coping with being in the world right now, and that's getting enough sleep. This can absolutely be hard to do, as you know, whether that's because screens disrupt our sleep, or having caffeine during the day, all of that. And when you run on to little sleep, it seriously affects your mental and physical health, both of which I am trying to keep prioritized right now.
Julia:
Proud of you.
Amanda:
Thank you. And Calm is the mental fitness app, which I think is so good, designed to help you relieve anxiety and improve your sleep. Calm has a whole library of programs designed to help you have healthy sleep. They have soundscapes, guided meditations, and over 100 sleep stories now, and I'm delighted, Julia, to tell you that the newest narrators I've really been enjoying are Lucy Liu and Levar Burton.
Julia:
Oh, my gosh. Very good pairing.
Amanda:
More calming voices have never existed. So if you go to calm.com/spirits, you'll get a limited time offer of 40% off a Calm premium subscription, which includes hundreds of hours of programming. Join the 70 million people around the world who use Calm to help take care of their minds and get better sleep. With the Calm app, you can experience a transformation in the way you sleep. So that's at calm.com/spirits.
Julia:
Yep, that's calm.com/spirits for 40% off a premium subscription.
Amanda:
And now, let's get back to the show.
Julia:
All right, we are back with our Austin Eastciders that we brought back from our trip to Austin. I have the pineapple flavor. It is delicious.
Eric:
I have watermelon.
Amanda:
And I have blood orange. So tasty.
Julia:
I love it. All right. Also, Eric and I did not buy matching hats for once, after going to a brewery.
Eric:
We didn't buy matching hats. We did a great job not buying matching hats.
Julia:
Oh, I was upset about it.
Eric:
Oh, I'm sorry.
Julia:
No, that's okay.
Eric:
You should have pulled me over and been like, "Buy a hat."
Julia:
Buy a hat, Eric.
Eric:
I didn't really even look at the merch, unfortunately. I just forgot to check it out.
Julia:
No, you were too busy playing charades, and also watching Naruto.
Amanda:
So guys, can I continue on my witch train for this episode, please?
Eric:
Yeah.
Julia:
Hell yeah, do it up.
Amanda:
This email comes from Ari in the year of our Lord, 2017, and it is titled "Gender Fluid, Witch/Fairies from Sicily."
Julia:
Fantastic.
Eric:
Oh, boy.
Julia:
You deep dived back to 2017, huh?
Amanda:
Well, I saw that you both had already selected your emails, and we generally stick to the last 60 days of emails we've gotten. So I thought, hey, I bet that we didn't get a chance to read all the good, good ones that we got way back when. So I wanted to go back and check it out. And I found some great ones.
Julia:
All right, hell yeah.
Eric:
I like it, I like it.
Amanda:
"I come from a really small town in Sicily, not too far from Mount Etna, so I've grown up with stories about Greek and Roman mythology, as well as local folklore, often heavily influenced by Arabs and many other cultures. But there's one story in particular which I must have heard when I was six or seven, that's always really fascinated me. One summer, as we were sitting under a starry night sky, my cousins and I listened as all our parents talked about the women of the night. There are people, both women and men, who appear perfectly ordinary during the day, but can at night leave their bodies behind and travel as spirits."
Amanda:
What a dream.
Amanda:
"They are depicted sometimes as tricksters, sometimes as vengeful, sometimes as benevolent. For instance, a man told me that when he and his twin sisters were toddlers, one morning, their mom found them both outside their cot, naked and with their hair all twisted into knots. I heard a few versions of this story from other people, including marks left on the bodies of the kids appearing out of nowhere during the night. But the hair thing appeared in my research over and over again. I Sicilian, the knots were called women's braids, and parents were often advised against cutting them because it would be an offense against the spirits.
Amanda:
"Another time around Christmas, my family was invited to a dinner party by some friends. A man that my dad identified as woman of the night was also there. The following morning, he told me he had woken up in the middle of the night and heard my brother, who must have been around eight, twisting and turning in his bed. He only stopped after my dad took my brother's hand and made him do the sign of the cross."
Amanda:
Classic Italy.
Amanda:
"When a woman of the night leaves her body, they look like they're asleep, and nobody is to touch them, but they can become spirits only during Thursday nights. And if they fail to return to their bodies, they'll turn into toads and remain a toad until the next night. If somebody kills the toad, they are cursed to die in their human body in the next 24 hours."
Julia:
I'm glad that the through line of this episode is don't fuck with animals.
Eric:
Also, that's a real flow chart about what happens to this animal. Okay, so now you've become a toad. If you die as the toad, you still become a human again, but then you will die within 24 hours. If you don't die as the toad, here is what happens.
Amanda:
It's very funny. "There are ways to prevent a woman of the night from entering your home, like placing a broom upside down next to the front door. That way, the spirit will be compelled to count the bristles of the brush. But as they can only count to ten, they will spend all night doing it and be forced to return their bodies by sunrise."
Julia:
Wait, I remember this from something. I can't remember which story it is.
Eric:
There's a lot of stuff that can't count. What's up with that? Why are mythological creatures so bad at counting?
Female:
I don't know.
Eric:
Were we also bad at counting, like hadn't figured out math very well, so we were like uhhh.
Julia:
Yeah, not a lot of us were super educated during that period of time, so.
Amanda:
Or just toddler-like, we are learning certain things.
Julia:
Yeah, I feel like a lot of these things are just like toddler behavior.
Amanda:
Much like how you can also distract a toddler with a nice little song, you can also recite a poem before going to bed, basically welcoming the spirit but asking them to be nice. There is the Italian version here, which is very lovely, but the English version is: I salute you, mistresses of the house, the evil which leaves and the good which enters. I salute you, mistresses of the place. I go to sleep and you stay there. If you want to sleep with me, you'll be a holy (well-accepted) company.
Eric:
That's very nice. I like it.
Julia:
I like that a lot.
Amanda:
It is very nice.
Julia:
It's very cute.
Amanda:
And those are our gender fluid witches/fairies from Sicily.
Julia:
Hell yeah, love it.
Eric:
Speaking of animals, I've got a story called Horses Might Be Haunting My Brother's House.
Julia:
The delivery of it was so good, and also the title.
Amanda:
Extraordinary.
Eric:
This comes to us from Narissa, and she writes, "Hi Amanda, Julia, and Eric. This is a short story of a weird experience I had a few months back while staying at my brother's home. I live in Brisbane, Australia, and I was visiting my brother and his wife on the Sunshine Coast for the weekend."
Eric:
That sounds really nice.
Eric:
"This was the first time I had stayed overnight since they had their daughter about three months before. The usual room I would sleep in is now my niece's room, so I was just down the hall in the other spare bedroom. I have never experienced anything weird at their home before, but after staying up until about 11:00 PM the first night, I settled into bed and went to sleep, only I was woken up throughout the night to what sounded like knocking on the wall behind my head. This wall is one of the outside walls of the house, and I was the only one in that part of the house."
Julia:
Don't like it.
Eric:
"My brother, sister-in-law and niece were at the far end of the house, separated by a kitchen and living room. It wasn't a super clear knock, more like a banging on the wall right behind my head. I'm also a very heavy sleeper, so I don't wake easily. But every time I would hear it, I would wake up. I thought it was a very strange noise and I had never heard it before, but I tried to brush it off because I was starting to freak myself out. Also, it was a new room and it was probably the house, right?"
Eric:
See, this is what I'm saying. Stay ignorant. Don't actually investigate because at the current level, all we know is weird banging. Weird banging not gonna get you.
Amanda:
No, I'd be out there in my wellies, in my pajamas, trench coat on, flashlight, figuring it out.
Eric:
And that's how you'd get trampled by a ghost horse.
Eric:
"The next night, I went to bed around 1:00 AM."
Eric:
These people are staying up late.
Julia:
Go to sleep.
Amanda:
Damn, there's a baby in the house.
Eric:
I mean, they're probably playing board games with their brother and his wife.
Eric:
"I put on a sleep mask and was drifting off to sleep when the bed underneath me began to vibrate."
Amanda:
No.
Julia:
Nope. Extremely bad.
Eric:
"It vibrated so hard that I actually thought I might be feeling an earthquake tremor, which is super rare for that part of the world I live in. It freaked me out, but I was so tired that I just kind of thought I imagined it. Combined with the knocking on the wall and my bed vibrating, I woke up the next day and checked the news. There were no earthquakes reported."
Julia:
No.
Eric:
I like that you did go like, "You know what, though? Not going to check now, but in the morning, I will open up that app and see if anything went down."
Julia:
Yeah, doing their due diligence. That's very important when you think you're being haunted.
Eric:
"So I mentioned it to my brother and sister-in-law. They thought it was strange, but they had never experienced anything weird in that room or the house before. They mentioned that before it was a housing estate, the land was a horse farm. I don't really know what happened, and I have just chalked it up to a strange experience. Who knows, maybe the horses are haunting my brother's house. Next time I visit, if anything strange happens, I will be sure to fill you in."
Julia:
I really appreciate this person, because all of this creepy stuff happens and they find out that it was a horse farm, and the first thought is not, oh, maybe we're haunted by the farmer. Maybe something bad happened to one of the farm hands. No, the first thought is haunted by horses. Haunted by horses.
Eric:
Yeah, I agree. I'm saying, once again, too many, probably no Civil War ghosts in Australia.
Julia:
Probably not.
Eric:
But I like a new ghost, a new type of ghost. We don't talk about horse ghosts a lot. I think we need to expand the scope of ghosts. This perfectly falls into that purview.
Amanda:
I agree. I feel like horses are so central to spirits, like the kelpies in just episode two. But horses ghosts in particular, I want to hear more about them.
Eric:
I was going to say that it sounds like it could just be bang-y radiator pipes.
Amanda:
Sure.
Eric:
But it is hot in winter in Australia, so the radiator's-
Julia:
No.
Eric:
... probably not on.
Julia:
Wait, no. That's not how that works.
Amanda:
They just refer to a different time of the year as winter.
Eric:
It's warm there, is the point.
Julia:
No, it gets cold.
Eric:
It's cold there?
Amanda:
It gets cold.
Julia:
There’s snow in Australia.
Amanda:
It's the same size as the U.S.
Julia:
Yeah. We're blowing Eric's mind right now.
Amanda:
But I feel like if it was the radiator or the water or something else in the home, that maybe they would have heard it in the other bedroom. Or even if it's just that wall, it's rare to run those things on an exterior wall. And also, the brother and his wife would have known.
Julia:
Yeah, they would have mentioned it, I feel like. And why is the bed vibrating? Why?
Amanda:
There's no good excuse.
Julia:
There's no reason.
Eric:
Hold on. No, I'm right. I'm right. The warmest month of the year for Australia is January.
Julia:
Yes, but they-
Amanda:
Yes, but they don't call that ... Like Christmas happens in summer for them.
Eric:
Well, my point is, you wouldn't have the radiator on.
Julia:
Did they winter, or did they say January?
Eric:
This says January. The email said it was from a few months ago.
Amanda:
I see.
Julia:
Okay. So, yes.
Eric:
So I'm saying this happened when it was warm.
Amanda:
Their summer, yes.
Eric:
Yes.
Julia:
Okay. All right, we're all on the same page again.
Amanda:
We got it. We got there.
Julia:
I was going to read a different one, but because we've been talking so much about animals this episode, I decided to swap it to a story from Devon, and the subject line is: She Just Wanted to Pet My Dog.
Amanda:
That's very good, but Julia, will you tell us the other story in our Patron-only bonus Urban Legends episode for this month?
Julia:
Of course I will.
Amanda:
Thank you.
Julia:
Okay. So Devon says, "Hi, I'm a relatively new fan of the podcast, and something in Hometown Urban Legends episode 31 reminded me of how I learned that my grandma's house was extremely haunted."
Amanda:
Yay.
Julia:
"Little bit of backstory. For many years, my grandparents lived in and ran a bed and breakfast out of a pre-Civil War era house that was decidedly full of ghosts."
Amanda:
Yes, yes, yes.
Julia:
"My mom never told me this because she knew it would freak me out, but recent research into the place has brought up stories of a long-haired woman in white at the edge of people's beds, and a Union soldier coming home through a door that no longer exists, due to the layout change from renovations. So I spend 20 years of my life visiting this place in blissful ignorance. Even when I saw the soldier one night, I chalked it up to a bad dream. Then in one of our last trips to the house before my grandma moved into a retirement community, I was woken up by the spirit of a little girl.
Julia:
"One morning, at around 5:00 AM, I heard the door to my bedroom open, and someone creep in. It didn't feel malicious, just like someone was trying not to wake me up. Without even opening my eyes, I assumed that my mom had come in to wake me for breakfast. A voice whispered, 'Are you awake?' To which I replied, 'No,' and pulling the covers over my head and still not opening my eyes.
Julia:
"I could then hear the footsteps make their way to the chair that my dog had chosen as her bed for the night. It was an old La-Z-Boy that creaked whenever you sat on it, so it was undeniable that someone had, in fact, sat on it. At this point, my stupid ass still thought that this was my mom, so I brushed off the covers and sat up, ready to tell her to go away. But no-one was there. I brushed it off and went back to bed, convincing myself that a door elsewhere in the house had opened, and that my only fourteen pound dog somehow made the loud creaking noise in the chair.
Julia:
"Later that day, I relayed this story to my mom, who instantly grabbed my arm and dragged me over to my grandmother. She told me not to say anything, and told my grandmother to tell me 'about the little girl.'"
Amanda:
Oh, no.
Julia:
"'Oh, well for the last three weeks,' she smiled, 'I have woken up at 5:00 AM by the spirit of a little girl.' Apparently, she never saw the girl, but could always hear her. She would come in and very politely ask my grandmother if she was awake. And then when my grandmother, a better person than me, said yes, she would ask if she could pet my grandmother's dog."
Julia:
So cute.
Julia:
"According to her, the spirit was very nice and the dog seemed to be aware of its presence. And the only time the girl didn't come to my grandmother was the day that she came to me instead."
Amanda:
Whoa.
Julia:
"If I didn't believe in spirits before, I certainly did after that. Thanks for listening."
Amanda:
That's awesome. Love a polite ghost.
Julia:
Love a fresh, polite ghost. So cute. Just wants to pet the dog.
Eric:
I like those top type of ghosts.
Julia:
Yeah, top type of ghosts; polite, and also likes dogs.
Amanda:
Polite, fresh, not malevolent.
Eric:
The dog thing's a bonus.
Amanda:
So good.
Julia:
Fair, agreed.
Amanda:
Oh, what a lovely and wholesome note to end this Urban Legends special on.
Julia:
You're welcome.
Amanda:
I hope my deep historical injustice of witchcraft in the U.K. didn't bring down the mood for this episode.
Julia:
No, it was good. And we brought it back with cute animals.
Eric:
Lots of animals.
Amanda:
Fabulous.
Eric:
All the bests.
Julia:
So many animals.
Eric:
Horses, frogs, crabs, dogs.
Amanda:
That's true.
Eric:
Just so many.
Amanda:
What a menagerie.
Julia:
A menagerie of creepy and coolness.
Amanda:
So I suppose if someone asks you if they could pet your dog and it's the middle of the night and no one else is home, don't worry about it. And remember, stay creepy and stay cool.