Episode 368: Your Urban Legends LXXXVI (with The Reading Party Podcast)
/From haunted doors to haunted castles, this urban legends episode is sure to have SOMETHING that would scare a child version of yourself (or an adult version, who are we to judge!). Also ghost sharks, dub-step hating ghosts, and spooky text message alerts.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, vomiting, violence, creepy dolls, accidental death, and sharks.
Guests
Megan Lewis and Lexie Henning are the hosts of The Reading Party Podcast, where they read, watch, snack & chat their way through books and films set in the ancient world.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends Bringing Down the Duke by Evie Dunmore
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at https://spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out Tell Me About It!
Sponsors
- BetterHelp is an online therapy service. Get 10% off your first month at https://betterhelp.com/spirits
- Marley Spoon offers personalized and delicious meal kits. Go to MarleySpoon.com/offer/SPIRITS and use code SPIRITS for up to 25 free meals
- Blueland creates everyday eco-friendly cleaning productions that save you money and space, without any plastic waste. Get 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com/spirits.
- Wildgrain is the first bake-from-frozen box for artisanal bread. For a limited time, you can get $30 off the first box - PLUS free Croissants in every box - when you go to Wildgrain.com/Spirits to start your subscription.
Find Us Online
- Website & Transcripts: https://spiritspodcast.com
- Patreon: https://patreon.com/spiritspodcast
- Merch: https://spiritspodcast.com/merch
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/spiritspodcast
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/spiritspodcast
- Tumblr: https://spiritspodcast.tumblr.com
- Goodreads: https://goodreads.com/group/show/205387
Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: https://multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And we are so pleased to have our new friends Lexie and Megan on the show. Lexie, Megan, welcome. Tell the conspirators who you are and what podcast you make.
MEGAN: Thank you so much for having us. I am Megan. I am an Assyriologist, so I specialize in the Cultures, Languages, Literature of Ancient Mesopotamia. I run a YouTube channel and I host the Reading Party Podcast with Lexie, which is an ancient media-inspired podcast review kind of thing. We get together and we talk about books, films, TV shows inspired by the ancient world. Season Two is coming out on— starting 16th of January and we will be looking at Ancient Egypt, which is neither of our specialty, so we've bugged a whole bunch of our friends into coming and helping us record that. But my other projects, I run the Digital Hammurabi YouTube channel, which is Mesopotamia-focused, and I also hosts a podcast, a New Testament podcast called Misquoting Jesus. So I spent a lot of time reading a lot of ancient stuff. It's— it's the best life I could have.
JULIA: That honestly sounds like the dream.
LEXIE: We love it. And I am Lexie. I am the other half of the Reading Party Podcast, which was a really fun thing that we decided to start because we complain that we didn't, you know, do enough with the ancient world, obviously.
MEGAN: Uh-hmm.
LEXIE: But, yeah, on the side, I actually work at UCLA, but that's not important. What we care about is the fact that I actually hosts two other podcasts. I host the Legacies of Ancient Persia podcast, which is all about the reception of Ancient Persia. And I also hosts Ancient Office Hours, which is my baby, my first podcast, and that is where I interview academics and grad students and people from the sort of media entertainment industry, and just talk about how history and mythology sort of impacts them in their careers. And it's been pretty— pretty cool. And Amanda's even been on it, so that's been pretty fun. So—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
LEXIE: —check out that episode, eventually, when it comes out, which I don't remember is when, but it'll be there.
JULIA: Hopefully, at this point, it will be out, but we're— we're excited regardless. And Lexie, people might recognize your voice from our Iliad and Homer episode. So if you haven't listened to that one, hey, pause this, go and listen to that one. And then you can come back and enjoy some urban legends.
AMANDA: Good stuff. I have an absolute non sequitur of a question for Megan before we get into the urban legends today. Megan, is the, like, popular conception of The Code of Hammurabi correct?
MEGAN: Uh, not really, no.
JULIA: Okay, good.
MEGAN: There's— there's a lot of academic debate about what it actually is. It's not, like, what we would call— they're not normative legislation. It's not— a judge wouldn't sit there and say, "Oh, look, it says on the law code that this is— this is what has to happen." There's a lot of debate over exactly what it is. It was set up originally in a temple, so it's got a very heavily religious connotation, which is not rare for Mesopotamian Royal Inscriptions, which is what this is. It's about kingship. It's about the king's relationship with the gods. It's not really about making sure that justice is spread throughout the land, which is, I think, more of what we get from a modern understanding of it.
JULIA: Yes. As I learned in sixth grade, you know, eye for an eye, and then that's what everyone did. And you're like, "Hmm, not really, but okay."
MEGAN: There— there are a fair amount of people who think that it's a record of actual legal decisions.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
MEGAN: And we do have, like, a couple of law texts, legal texts that do match up quite closely with what we see on— on the [04:08] of Hammurabi. So it's not—I'm not trying to say that it's completely removed from reality, but it's definitely not this kind of federal judicial system that I think we're— we're more used to in the Western world.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Not as simple as my sixth-grade teacher made it seem.
MEGAN: Probably not. But kudos to your sixth-grade teacher for including Mesopotamia, we don't get any Mesopotamia in the UK, so—
JULIA: Wow. They gotta get on that.
MEGAN: I know, I know. It's shameful.
AMANDA: Well, speaking of childhood stories and where we come from, you know how we have to open this episode, which is to ask both of you, what kinds of urban legends were you hearing at sleepovers, on the playground, whispered at the back of buses that felt way too scary and kind of kept you up at night?
LEXIE: I guess I'll start and I'll say so I kind of had like a cloistered grade school experience. So my parents at the time decided that they thought it was a good idea to send me to the French school of Chicago. And so back in the early 2000s, whatever, like the class sizes are small, so there wasn't a lot. And we were all, like, really sheltered. But within that, the school was in this like a massive building, and so there was a rumor that it was haunted—
AMANDA: Yes.
LEXIE: —right? So you're like, "Great. I want to go to school in a very haunted building."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
LEXIE: And so I don't know who or where this started, but I think we were in, like, second or third grade, and someone just kind of taps me on the shoulder and goes, "Don't go into the basement." And I was like, "Well, the basement is where our like, gym is." We had big gym up top—
JULIA: Oh.
LEXIE: —and then we had, like, small gym. And they were like— yeah, they shove all the younger kids in the small gym in the basement.
JULIA: I thought you were gonna say, "Well, I'm a small child, why would I go into a creepy basement to begin with in this school?" But no, the fact that you are obligated to go into the basement, bad.
LEXIE: Yes. So they were like, "Yes. Go down here and you have to spend, like, an hour of your time in this small gym." And then they also, that year, for whatever reason decided that, you know, our music classes would be in the room next door to the gym, which is even creepier because it was like a small cave-like place.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
LEXIE: And so I was like, "Okay. Why— why do I not go there?" And my friend was like, "So there was once a man. He was, like, a janitor, and he was miserable." And apparently— I don't know how this came about. It's— it was like the most fantastic thing, obviously, when you're, like, in second grade, but she was like, "Oh, yes, he was an immigrant. He came from France and he tried to get into the school. And he couldn't make it, and so he became a janitor." And then, like, he was so miserable, and like, there was a fire in the school, apparently and he died in it. And so because of his like, inability to get in to the school, he then decided he would haunt the basement.
JULIA: Sure.
MEGAN: It's a logical progression.
LEXIE: And I was like, "Okay. Great. I don't love this."
JULIA: That's a lot of lore for elementary.
LEXIE: Right. And I was like—
JULIA: That's wild.
LEXIE: "—This is a lot." And they were just like, "Oh, yeah, so he haunts the basement and don't go there." So I was like, "Great." So then, of course, we go there, and for whatever reason, there was like a— a ceiling leak or— there was something, but I remember we all go down, and essentially, we get there. And the teacher is like, "Oh, actually, we can't use this. It's a mess." And, like, they closed the door real fast, so we didn't actually see the room.
JULIA: Hmm.
LEXIE: And we were like, "His murdered corpse is in there." So— so, like, we didn't actually know what we— like got into our heads. And so we did, we ran to the rest of the school and we were like, "It— we can't use this room. It's— it's, like, banned because his murdered corpse is in there, still there." Yeah, so we started that one, and then it spread, and then no one wanted to go down there. And even after they, like, fixed the room, clearly, people were like, "It's a school-wide cover-up."
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
LEXIE: "They— they, like, buried his body. They, like, shoved into a locker. It's— it's there." So that was the most haunted tale at our school for, like, second graders. We were terrified.
JULIA: That is wild. I also— I'm noticing a trend as we tell more, like, school hauntings, but in particular, like grade schools and elementary schools. Like not so much colleges, but mainly these, like, younger generations. There's a lot of haunted janitors, and not a lot of haunted teachers, which I think is really interesting. It's like, "Oh, because the janitor has to stay after school, he's more likely to haunt it than a teacher is?" I wonder if that's the logic behind it.
AMANDA: We're also not as familiar with the janitor. You see them in passing.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: You know, they come when someone throws up, to put cat litter down, or whatever. Like, you know, they're more of kind of a passing figure than a teacher who you get to know very well.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Megan, how about you? Did you grow up with any interesting urban legends? I feel like a lot of times when we ask this, a lot of our guests for the urban legends episodes are American. So I've really haven't heard a lot of, like, hometown urban legends from folks who are from, like, the UK or anything.
MEGAN: We— we didn't have a lot. So not really an urban legend, but my mother always said that she grew up in house with a poltergeist, who used to—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
MEGAN: —violently throw crockery against the wall and smash it.
JULIA: Whoa.
MEGAN: Which was really interesting. There's, like, literally no more to the story than that, but that was really cool. We had, like, stuff like Bloody Mary that I think probably is an American import, things like that. It's not really a ghost story, but the only location-specific thing story that I grew up with, I grew up in a very, very, very tiny village. And the slightly larger village next to me where I went to elementary school, has a church. In the UK, most villages have a church. And there was a story that William Shakespeare actually spent the night there, because we're almost halfway between London and Stratford.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
MEGAN: So there's a kind of a story that he spent the night in the church once. But, unfortunately, he doesn't then go on to haunt the church, which I think would be a much better story.
JULIA: Dang.
MEGAN: But no, my stories are really very boring and mundane.
JULIA: Can I ask a follow-up question about your mom's house haunting?
MEGAN: Absolutely.
JULIA: Like, was it well-known among the family like, "Oh, this is a poltergeist that is— is throwing things."? Or was that like your mom's extrapolation or—
MEGAN: I don't actually know.
JULIA: Okay.
MEGAN: So my— my grandmother died when I was four, so it's not something that I— I could talk to her about. My grandfather was very, like, severe older British gentleman.
JULIA: Sure. Sure.
MEGAN: Yeah. So not really something I'd ask him about. And her two sisters are much, much older than her, so they didn't actually live together at the time.
JULIA: Hmm.
MEGAN: But she is still utterly convinced that, "No, it was definitely a poltergeist." This was what was going on and— and she said that she saw the— the plates and stuff go flying, so— and she's not given to flights of fantasy.
JULIA: Hmm. That's how you know it too. Like, when a skeptic is like, "Yeah, I saw those plates go flying across the room and no one was around them." That's always like—
MEGAN: Absolutely.
JULIA: —the most satisfying story to hear. You'd be like, "Yeah, I don't believe in ghosts, but I did see a bunch of plates go flying."
AMANDA: And if they don't want to talk about it, it's further evidence that it's true.
JULIA: Lexie, you did get us into the idea of haunted schools and I have a good one that we have to talk about.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: So this is from Lucien, they/he, and he writes in about a Catholic School haunting. So he goes, “My name is Lucien and I'm a longtime listener writing to you from Poland. In the beginning, I want to put a disclaimer that the story is actually what happened to a close school friend of mine, not me personally. But with that being said, let's jump right into the story of the Catholic school ghost/spirit. It all took place during my senior year in high school. With a bunch of already adult teenagers, one could think that believing ghost stories would be a thing of the past, left behind to the scout campfires. One would be right if the said story didn't happen to one of the teenagers."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "Our school was located in a monastery dating back to the 11th century." Now, every time someone writes in from anywhere in Europe, and they're like, "Hey, by the way"— like also, for example, Shakespeare stayed in a church near my house or like—
MEGAN: My poem churches [0:12:26] in the Domesday Book. Of course, it is, why wouldn't it be?
JULIA: Of course, why not? Or like, you know, "I grew up in a castle." I'm like, "What's ha— what— what are you saying?"
MEGAN: It's so odd to us.
JULIA: It's so odd. Our country is so— such a baby in comparison. We're just like, "Ooh, yeah, 300 years. That's an old, definitely scary house." And you're like, "A castle from the 11th century."
AMANDA: Well, for you both, as scholars of the ancient world, are you like, "Yeah. If it's— if it's in CE, don't talk to me."
LEXIE: Honestly, yes. That sounds really, really snobby.
MEGAN: And I— it go— even worse than that for me, because when I was still in grad school, like my specialty was the early side of Mesopotamian History. So we're like Third Millennium, Second Millennium. Once you get up into the First millennium, I'm useless, and I really don't care. Sorry, that's too recent for me.
JULIA: Too soon, too soon.
LEXIE: You know, I used to be much more snobby, but two things happened. One, all my friends ended up being Assyriologists and Egyptologists who study things that are older than Ancient Greece. So then I was looked at as like, "Well, yours are so young." And everyone makes fun of us, because, you know, they're like, "Greek and Latin is so easy. Why didn't you choose, you know, one of the languages where it's just squiggles?" So— so I can't really talk since I'm the young kid. But then also having done my master's, I ventured even further into the— the future. So I did stuff around sort of the Byzantine Periods, so that's getting into like 1453, which is positively childish compared to what these people study. So I— I have become a little less snooty about it.
JULIA: Lexie, you had popes running around during that period. We shouldn't even be talking about.
LEXIE: Right? So I'm like," Ugh. Okay, fine. Little younger."
JULIA: Lucien goes on to continue that, as they said, “The monastery dated back to the 11th century, with a building this old and a bunch of elderly nuns running around, obviously, there was a myriad of ghost stories passed down from one generation of students to another. The story my friend Em lived through would eventually become one of them. It was almost Christmas, the break had already started.” I want this— the rest of the email to be inversed, it's not, but I want to read it like it is. “All of the students left the school to happily doodle away until it was time to go back. Well, almost all. Most of the people living at the dorms had not yet left, opting instead to leave the day before Christmas Eve. The time was nigh. It was the evening of December 22, just the next morning all the girls, as the dorms were only for them, would leave to spend time with their families. A cold, dark night was nearing itself in the poorly heated corridors of the centuries-old building. The nuns had already left to sleep themselves. It was eerily quiet in the school, normally, so full of life. Em had just finished packing and decided to go take a shower. The stalls were communal, and to reach them you had to pass through the former middle school corridor, as the middle school itself had been closed. My friend went alone. Her roommate had already fallen asleep. She took her things and hurried herself, already half-spooked out just from the atmosphere. Our school always felt a little weird after the sun had set. All the crosses and statues of angels who would stare at you with those stone-y eyes never failed to creep out even the most rational of students.”
MEGAN: I'm going to just interrupt you—
JULIA: Go for it.
MEGAN: —and say, stone angels, since Doctor Who, are some of the scariest fucking things. I mean, I quite enjoyed a stone angel before.
JULIA: They're very pretty.
MEGAN: Now, I— I will not walk past one in the dark. It's just not going to happen. Absolutely not.
JULIA: You have to keep making eye contact with them, otherwise they can't move.
MEGAN: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: So everything's fine.
MEGAN: That whole description is just— it's just terrifying.
LEXIE: I think I hated gargoyles ever since, like, Beauty and the Beast. When you have that—
JULIA: Hmm.
LEXIE: —gargoyle scene, I was like, "No, they're ruined. Nope."
JULIA: Nope. Nope. It's fucked up. Can't do it. Simply can't do it anymore. So Lucien continues, “Covered in the long night shadows, they always seemed even more otherworldly. Em reached the stalls, hearing nothing except her own steps that echoed throughout the entire corridor. Took a shower, brushed her teeth, and in no time she was ready to go back and put herself to sleep. She definitely would have done just that, had she not noticed that one of the statues at the end of the corridor moved itself, or did it really? Walking a little closer, she suddenly froze in fear. No, it was not the statue. The statue was at its usual place. But if not the statute, then who or what was standing just a couple of meters in front of her? Later, she would describe it as fairly tall, more or less 1.8 meters in height, which is 5'11 for American measurements.” Thank you for including those. “All shadowy, nothing could be seen of this creature. It had a bulky posture, but a little contorted, almost unnatural. She might have even gone to investigate, but didn't for the simple fact that the creature, as she was watching, moved. That was the time when the adrenaline kicked in, and she ran off, never looking back. She had to take the long route back to the dorm, but it was absolutely worth it, never having to pass that thing again. We might not have believed her story, but both her roommate and the other girls from the dorms testified seeing her run in a sheer panic back to her room. We would rarely see them so serious, so we believed it immediately. To this day, no one really knows what that thing was, but in such an old building in a city that has experienced countless wars, it could have been anything, really. And frankly, no one ever dared to try to investigate it again. Thank you for reading my story. It was definitely one of the experiences that made me interested in all of the weird and wonderful stuff, and for sure pumped me full of respect of them. Thank you for your work and have a wonderful day.”
MEGAN: I think running away and not looking back is the only course of action available to you, if that kind of thing happens.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: Or you back up real quick with your eyes on that continuously, because I feel like the minute you turn away from that thing, it's going to attack you.
LEXIE: Yeah, that's right.
JULIA: And I— like I need eyes on that to make sure it does not continue to move in my direction.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Like— like encountering like a bear or a mountain lion, you know?
LEXIE: The way it was written was so cinematic, almost.
JULIA: Hmm.
LEXIE: —like— I'm imagining this, like, building where there's, you know, a ton of, like, gargoyles and, like, weird, creepy things. If I were in their shoes, I would have done one of two things, I would have run away terrified, or I would have tried to confront it like, "Okay, I'll take a stand and I'll, like, try to stare down the thing." Either that, or screaming. There's no, like, in between.
MEGAN: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: There's no in-between. It's either very brave or very terrified, which I appreciate in a lot of the stories that are submitted to us here. This is more with ghosts. I don't know if this works well with, like, shadow figures or creatures, or whatever this thing happened to be. But like a lot of people will see positive results when either they're very polite to a ghost, or if they're firm but polite with a ghost, being like, "Okay. This is fine, I would appreciate if you stopped, because I'm not having a good time anymore." So I think that, for the most part, your idea of like confronting it has worked for a lot of people in the past.
LEXIE: Excellent.
JULIA: It's good to know, right?
LEXIE: I— I do love to know that confrontation does sometimes work, even though I'm a very conflict-averse person. You know, as you were reading that story, though, it's really funny, because it reminded me of a sleepover at my friend's house.
AMANDA: Yes.
LEXIE: I'm younger than my friend by at least three or four years. And so I was like the young kid invited to her cool, eighth-grade graduation.
JULIA: Hmm.
LEXIE: And so I was— I was young. And we kind of had something like— I mean, we were at her house, but like her mom has, like, creepy statues, like, everywhere. Like— like really creepy like dolls, you know? As I'm like, "Okay." Well, I didn't want to, but they— they made us watch a horror movie.
JULIA: The parents did or like—
LEXIE: No, she did, my friend.
JULIA: Oh, okay.
LEXIE: And she was, you know, like, "I'm going into high school, so I need to be brave." So she's like, "We're gonna watch a horror movie." And I'm like, "This is a really bad idea. I'm too young."
JULIA: Too terrible.
LEXIE: But she was like, "We're doing it." So I sat through this horror movie.
JULIA: Do you remember what the movie was?
LEXIE: Yes. We watched One Missed Call.
JULIA: Oh, okay.
LEXIE: And I hate— God. I mean, there's nothing I hate more than, like, scary, paranormal things. I'm like— I can take a lot of other types of things, you know? If it's grounded in some kind of physical thing, I'm— I'm kind of okay, because I can rationalize it, and having loved mythology, I was like, I couldn't imagine that. But when it's like ghouls and demons and shit, I'm— I'm like, "Nah, I'm out." But, yeah, so we watch One Missed Call, and then she did this like evil thing where she, like, changed all of the ringtones on people's phones to be, like, the creepy ringtone.
JULIA: That's so mean.
LEXIE: Right? I mean, we were, like, shitting our pants, but the same thing happened. So like two of us, one of her friends and I, like, got up in the middle of night, and we're like, "Okay, we're kind of hungry. We need to go the bathroom." But we, like, walked downstairs, and we saw like the shadow of, like, one of her mom's like creepy dolls.
JULIA: Hmm.
LEXIE: And we were convinced that it moved in the middle of the night, and we were so terrified. We, like, ran away out of the kitchen screaming.
JULIA: I don't blame you.
LEXIE: And we're like, "It moved, it moved. It was the thing." So that's what it reminded me out. So I was kind of getting chills as— as you were reading, because I was like, "Oh, okay. Creepy."
AMANDA: There you go.
MEGAN: Creepy dolls are just like— I don't know what it is about them. There is something very, very unsettling. There was a whole load of them at my local thrift store a couple of weeks ago. Clearly vintage. I have no idea if they were valuable or in old dusty boxes. And, like, individually, sure, they look beautiful, but there were like 20 of them.
JULIA: Hmm.
MEGAN: Just all grouped together. And it was— it— it was— yeah, I did not enjoy that experience, even a little bit.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
MEGAN: I can't imagine sleeping somewhere with dolls, no.
LEXIE: Yeah
MEGAN: No.
JULIA: I don't have a doll fear, but I get why people are creeped out by them. Like, I— I'm a clown fear girly myself, but like I get— I get why they're like— they're too realistic and your brain can't make that kind of like uncanny valley connection, being like they look very real and they just—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —keep staring at me not moving and there's something seriously wrong with that.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. That's me with mannequins, since Doctor Who. I talked about this yesterday.
LEXIE: I will clarify and go, I'm not normally afraid of dolls. Like that is not a fear I have, but I think after watching a creepy film, yes.
MEGAN: We talked— we talked about mannequins though, Lexie, when we were doing the— the Stray Gods play-through.
LEXIE: We did. I was more afraid of the mannequins because I just played the Dark Pictures Anthology game, The Devil In Me.
JULIA: Hmm.
LEXIE: And there you have creepy mannequins and animatronics in this murder castle. And that's what scared me. So it's— it's like I have to be influenced by I just saw, or played, or something— something with a creepy element. And then if you get me in the right environment, I'm terrified of it.
JULIA: I feel you. I get it.
LEXIE: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: That's a rough one. That's a rough one. Not gonna blame you.
AMANDA: Well, I think we are in the right environment to go ahead and refill our drinks, take a brief stretch, and then come on back for more urban legends. What do y'all think?
JULIA: Sounds good to me.
MEGAN: Perfect.
LEXIE: Amazing.
[theme]
JULIA: Hey, this is Julia, and welcome to the refill. We'll start as always by thanking our new patrons. Hey, welcome, Meagan Moon. You joined the ranks of our supporting producer-level patrons like Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Arianna, Ginger Spurs Boi, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Nathan, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah and Scott. As well as our legend-level patrons, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. And you, too, can join our Patreon by going to patreon.com/spiritspodcast and getting cool rewards like our most recent tarot card vibe check which we just dropped for the winter solstice, so check that out. Go to patreon.com/spiritspodcast today. I also, of course, love to give you all some recommendations, and I have been on a bit of a romance kick lately. We're back at it. There's something about wintertime that just makes me love romance novels. And this particular one, I really liked this whole series, but I would say start with Bringing Down The Duke by Evie Dunmore. It is really fun. It's really, like, exciting, kind of like women studying at Oxford and then meeting their— their romantic match. And I— I've been really enjoying the books. I'm on the second one right now. I'm really looking forward to the next two. So check that out, that is Bringing Down The Duke by Evie Dunmore. I also want to tell you about some shows here at Multitude. Hey, have you checked out Tell Me About It yet? Tell Me About It is a game show about proving that the things you like are actually interesting. Hosted by Adal Rifai of Hello from the Magic Tavern and Hey Riddle Riddle, as well as our own Eric Silver. Adal is playing an eccentric billionaire who forces guests to come on the podcast to prove that their favorite thing is actually the best through a series of wild games and challenges put together by audio Butler, Eric. Think of this kind of as like podcasting, Taskmaster, or like a really in-depth conversation about something that your friend is super into. And the high scoreboard is filled with some of your favorites in all of podcasting, like Janet Varney, Jenna Stoeber, and Jeffrey Cranor, and so many more people. Amanda and I have both been on it. I talked about Greek mythology. So check out Tell Me About It, the most fun podcast run by a multibillionaire, and that's true. And now, let's hear from our sponsors. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Now, here's the thing, my family are difficult to buy gifts for, and I'm also a difficult person to buy gifts for as well. I never know what to tell people to get me for the holidays, especially when they ask because my parents always ask. And so it's really like difficult for me to be like, "Yes, I want you to treat me to a thing that I haven't gone out of my way to buy for myself." That's why it's so difficult. And whether or not your family gives gifts during the holidays, you get to define how you give to yourself. And the holidays are a great time to do that. So whether it's by starting therapy, going easier on yourself during the tough moments, or treating yourself to a day of complete rest. You have to remember to give yourself some love this holiday season. Now, I know that therapy is something that I really appreciate that I get to go to and discuss every single week. And it is something that I would definitely miss if it wasn't in my life anymore. It really helps me deal with the stress of work, and life, and everything in between. And I am really grateful for my therapist. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/spirits today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, .com/spirits. Now, I have to admit to you that when winter rolls around, I tend to go out to eat or order in a lot. And it's, you know, not always the best for me in terms of just, like, getting myself active in the kitchen. And I have tried other meals before, but the taste of the food just like— it— it really didn't do it for me until I tried Marley Spoon. And listen, I love to cook, and this episode is sponsored by Marley Spoon. Marley Spoon knows that bland food is boring, so they created the best-tasting meal kit money can buy. And with our code Spirits, you can get up to 25 free meals. And with Marley Spoon, you can choose from over 100 delicious recipes every week, from stuff like Cajun spiced chicken to poached salmon, to butternut squash gnocchi, one of my favorites, to a vegan burrito bowl, and many of the dishes are completely customizable. So if you're looking for vegetarian meals, or family-friendly dishes, or low-carb options, Marley Spoon has the food that you want to eat. And I really love Marley Spoon because, again, it, like, gets me to get into the kitchen and rather than do takeout, I am eating these delicious meals that I know that I made myself. And, you know, there's something that I'm, like, left a little proud about when I finished cooking it, and I sit down, and I eat it. I'm like, "Hmm, I made this myself. It's incredible." And with meal planning and food shopping taken care of, making delicious food at home has finally become, I mean, like, effortless. Marley Spoon has flexible plans, endless options, and different ways to personalize so cooking at home fits easily with whatever your lifestyle is. Plus with Marley Spoon, you aren't locked in long-term. Marley Spoon's flexible subscription allows you to edit, pause, or cancel your boxes anytime. So experience the most personalized meal kit with Marley Spoon. Head to marleyspoon.com/offer/spirits and use code Spirits for up to 25 free meals. That's right, up to 25 free meals with Marley Spoon. One last time, that's marleyspoon.com/offer/spirits for up to 25 free meals. And make sure you use our promo code Spirits so they know that we sent you. Now, did you know that the holidays can create even more waste than usual? Every year, Americans throw away 25% more trash from Thanksgiving to New Year's. But what if I told you that there was a way to get all of your holiday shopping done without the guilty feeling over waste that typically comes with it? Hey, you guys know about Blueland? Blueland is on a mission to eliminate single-use plastic by reinventing, cleaning essentials to be better for you and the planet. The idea is super simple. You grab one of their beautiful forever bottles, fill it with warm water, drop in a tablet, and get cleaning. And refill start at $2.25. And you don't have to buy a new plastic bottle every time you run out. You can even set up a subscription or buy in bulk so you never run out of the products that you use the most. From cleaning sprays to hand soap, to toilet cleaner and laundry tablets, all Blueland products are made with ingredients that you can feel good about. I have talked about how their toilet cleaner is like a bath bomb for your toilet, and I love it so much. But I'm also a huge fan of their hand soap because I just really love the scent, and it really makes my hands feel both clean and also soft, which is a real benefit. Now, Blueland has a special offer for listeners. Right now, get 15% off your first order by going to blueland.com/spirits. You won't want to miss this, blueland.com/spirits for 15% off. That's blueland.com/spirits to get 15% off. And finally, this episode of Spirits is brought to you by Wildgrain. Wildgrain is the first-ever bake-from-frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, fresh pastas, and artisanal pastries. Every item bakes from frozen in 25 minutes or less, no thawing required. And the team at Wildgrain just— they just sent me a box, and there's so much delicious stuff inside it. I am kind of obsessed with their big chocolate chip cookies that they sent me. They are so good. Like, imagine a Toll House chocolate chip cookie, but just ginormous and 100 times more delicious. They are so freakin' good. And I cannot talk about Wildgrain without talking about how good the croissants are. They are truly so delicious, and so easy to make. Like, the baking process is so fast and easy, and so perfect for lazy weekends like a lazy Sunday where I will wake up to the smell of baked goods because Jake wakes up before me, and he's already popped one of the Wildgrain products into the oven for me. And now, you can fully customize your Wildgrain box so you can get any combination of breads, pastas, and pastries that you like. So if you want a box of all bread, all pasta, or all pastries, you can have it. Plus, for a limited time, you can get $30 off the first box, plus free croissants in every box when you go to wildgrain.com/spirits to start your subscription. You heard me, free croissants in every box and $30 off your first box when you go to wildgrain.com/spirits. That's wildgrain.com/spirits, or you can use the promo code Spirits at checkout. And now, let's get back to the show.
[theme]
JULIA: We are back. And Megan and Lexie, I know that when I'm hearing about scary stories in the dark and whatnot, I like to imbibe in a nice cocktail to really get me into the mood. Have you guys been enjoying anything recently, whether that's cocktails, mocktails, coffee drinks, et cetera? What— what have you been enjoying lately?
MEGAN: Nothing recently, because I have too many children and it's very difficult to sit down and enjoy a drink.
AMANDA: Megan, how many children you got?
MEGAN: Five.
JULIA: That's many children.
AMANDA: Wow. Correct. I wanted four, and so when people are like, "I have too many kids." I got three. I'm like, "All right, guys. I bet you can fit in one minivan, though."
MEGAN: So the— my two eldest, my stepdaughters and I've got a five-year-old and two-year- old twins. And they're all with us—
AMANDA: Oh, boy.
MEGAN: —during the week, so it— it's a very full house. So I'm very lucky if I can sit down and just drink a cup of tea, which is my— generally, my drink of preference. But when I do get the chance to drink especially this time of year, I really love hot cider.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Hmm.
MEGAN: My personal, just absolutely adore it. And Angry Orchard is in the US, my favorite brand. I don't—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
MEGAN: I don't know of a lot of, like, craft ciders in this country, but I enjoy that very much. It's been a while, though.
JULIA: Yeah. I will say Austin Cidery, is that correct, Amanda?
AMANDA: Austin Eastciders with a C, is there like branding.
JULIA: Yes. Austin Eastcider is fantastic. So if you can find those, their distribution is pretty good. So you might be able to—
MEGAN: Okay.
JULIA: —find them, like, in your local grocery store or, like, at a beer distributor or something like that. So I highly recommend their stuff. And all of their flavors are really interesting. Like they'll do like a pineapple one that's to die for, and a bunch of different—
AMANDA: Blood orange, honey.
LEXIE: Oh.
AMANDA: Yeah, all kinds of stuff.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
MEGAN: That sounds good. I will take a look. Thank you.
JULIA: Of course.
LEXIE: Hmm, let's see. I think, as I said on my previous episode, I'm just a tea fanatic, I swear. I mean, living in the UK turned me British.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
LEXIE: And this is one of the many reasons I bonded with Megan, because we share a love of tea, and that's kind of our thing on our—
MEGAN: Yes.
LEXIE: —on our podcast. We are always drinking tea. But when I'm not drinking tea, you know, recently in the last, like, two weeks, I've really been enjoying the hell out of a good gin and tonic.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
LEXIE: Although, I will say— you know, one place I went to didn't have gin, which was like, upsetting, like very upsetting.
JULIA: That's wild.
LEXIE: Because I was like, "Who doesn't have gin?" So they— they did have to replace it with a vodka and tonic and I'm like, "That's fine, but it's not the same."
JULIA: No. You're missing out on a lot of botanicals there.
LEXIE: Right. So a good G&T. And this one place kind of near my house in Santa Monica, puts, like, a sprig of rosemary—
JULIA: Hmm.
LEXIE: —in— in the G&T—
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
LEXIE: —and it tastes so good.
MEGAN: That sounds fantastic.
JULIA: Yeah.
LEXIE: Yeah.
JULIA: Gotta appreciate the florals that bring out the floral notes of the gin. So like if you're gonna go for a gin and tonic, make sure, one, it's a super floral botanical gin, like a lot of people tend to go more London dry for a gin and tonic. I think go as botanical as possible, and then adding an actual botanical with it is a really nice combination.
MEGAN: Oh, yeah.
LEXIE: Love that.
JULIA: Delish.
AMANDA: Megan unlocked memory for me. I studied abroad in London when I was 19, and was very excited to be able to drink legally. And the first drink I had that I bought for myself, you know, in an environment where I could was a Kopparberg Pear Cider, and it remains pear cider—
MEGAN: I love Kopparberg.
AMANDA: I know. Remains like such— such a— a sweet place in my heart. I had some recently when I was in the UK over the summer, and I was like, "You know what, dude? It— it holds up, man. It holds up. I love it."
LEXIE: It's very good. I was telling Megan, I think that, like— yes, that was one of my favorite brands, I know it's Swedish and I could get it when I was living in Europe last year. And I think I remember telling Megan at one point, they actually import it to the States, but like only select states decided to have it. And so it ended up in, like, really random places that you would—
AMANDA: Ooh.
LEXIE: —never expect. So, like, it's not in, like, New York, or LA, or Chicago even. It's in like a random place in Alabama, and then Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho. It's somewhere weird.
AMANDA: Odd.
LEXIE: And I'm like, "Why is it there and not here? I want."
AMANDA: I'll just have to go. How about you, Julia?
JULIA: What have I been drinking lately? I've been going more beer lately, just in general. Like if I'm going out, I'm getting a little bit more bang for my buck. Unless I'm going to like a really nice cocktail bar. It just makes more sense to like down a Tecate, if you know what I mean? Just like a Tecate with lime, good to go, and I know that like I'm going to enjoy the rest of the evening just like sipping. But I will say there is a fantastic cocktail place that is near us that does— for the— the fall going into the winter. They have been doing a pumpkin cream cheese colada.
AMANDA: Whoa. What is that?
JULIA: Creamy— I want to see if I can find it on their menu. Give me 30 seconds.
MEGAN: On the topic of pumpkin, I generally do not like beer, but listening to you guys talk about the joys of pumpkin beer on a recent episode, I'm gonna have to give it a try.
JULIA: It's— it's good.
AMANDA: It's a good entree to beer with flavors, you know? And especially if you pair it with like food. I don't know. I— I feel like such a novice at wine. It's not a thing I know a lot about or like experience a lot of, but when someone points out to me like, "Oh, this, you know, fruity wine is great with this fruit." I'm like, "Oh, my God, you're right."
JULIA: Makes sense.
AMANDA: And I feel that way doing a pumpkin beer and like a muffin or a pretzel. It's great.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
MEGAN: If you're telling me to pair alcohol with baked goods, I am on board.
AMANDA: There you go. Something with cinnamon.
JULIA: All right. So it's called the pumpkin head colada. It's a cream cheese washed rum blend. All spice, pumpkin, cinnamon, lemon, maple syrup.
LEXIE: Whoa.
AMANDA: That's crazy.
JULIA: Amanda, I have to take you to this place at some point. We have to make it happen.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: I—
AMANDA: Yes, Julia, please.
JULIA: I'm gonna send you the— the menu right now so you can plan accordingly.
AMANDA: Oh, my God, a 100%.
LEXIE: Okay. That means that, Megan, when I come out to visit you near DC, we have to go find a place that does something similar.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
MEGAN: Oh, DC has so many— so many places.
LEXIE: Yeah.
MEGAN: We'll have great time.
JULIA: Okay, fantastic.
LEXIE: Amazing.
AMANDA: Guys, I've called an audible and I've selected a different urban legend to the one that I was planning to read featuring a poltergeist.
JULIA: Ooh.
MEGAN: Perfect.
AMANDA: So this email comes from Keen, she/her, and it's titled Haunted Door???
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: “Hey, Spirits, love listening to the show. Thank you so much for the Urban Legends episodes in particular. I think those are my favorites because I've been plagued by spirits and inexplicable happenings since I was a little girl playing in my room with my grandfather, even though he passed away two years previous."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "But that's a story for a different time.”
JULIA: Wow. Saw that one coming.
AMANDA: “The story I want to tell you today is about my first apartment that was super double haunted. So when I was 18, and I just graduated high school, I moved into a small apartment in the bottom of my grandparents' old home that my mom turned into student housing after they moved away."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "The apartment was new, but I helped her build it over the past year in preparation for me to move in once I graduated. So I could study at the university but also keep an eye on the kids that were bordering in the house"
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "A lot of the parts were found secondhand on eBay. My mom never liked paying for something new that she couldn't say, 'Get for free or for cheap.'”
MEGAN: Absolutely.
JULIA: Best possible price, baby.
AMANDA: “So this apartment was a mismatch of stained glass windows, some giant glass doors from an old boat dealer, some plasterboard that was a little water-damaged, and a beautiful carved wooden door painted sky blue with a brass lion's head door knocker.”
MEGAN: Can I live there?
JULIA: I don't know why it is the minute you said stained glass, I'm like "Oh, haunted." It's a 100% haunted. Just seems like it would be haunted now that you said it.
AMANDA: Incre— I know. It sounds ideal. I love it. “The first few days after I moved in were spent getting to know the borders upstairs, unpacking my things, and getting sorted for uni. Everything was pretty normal until the knocking started."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "So one night around 8:00 pm, I was sitting on my couch, watching the TV when I heard a light knock at my front door, the sky blue one with the knocker. Me thinking it was one of the boarders needing help, I went and opened the door, but there was no one there. Weird. I shrugged and went back to my movie, guessing I must have misheard. The door obviously had a knocker so people usually use that when they came to the door. I was probably just hearing the old house settle somehow. About an hour later, I heard the knock again, only this time it was louder. I got up, opened the door, nothing again. I looked all the way up the path that led down to my apartment. I looked down to the garden, there was no one there. If it had been a knock and run, Australian term for dingdong dash, I would have seen them. The hallway was too long.” Is there a— a UK version of knock and run, dingdong dash?
MEGAN: We just call it knock and run. And I was going to ask where this person was because uni is a very British term and I— I never hear it living in the US anymore.
AMANDA: I've been reading a lot of Canadian hockey romance. And so I was like, "Oh, is this in Canada?" They talked about like billets and borders all the time.
JULIA: Yeah. This sounds so ideal. The fact that there's a garden and the fact that there's like— like the description of this place, if I didn't know that it was quote, "double haunted." I'd be like, "I would move in there, a 100%."
AMANDA: I'd be so jealous.
MEGAN: I feel it's unfair that some people get double hauntings.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
MEGAN: And I am in my mid-30s and have not had a single haunting yet. It's just something is— is just wrong.
JULIA: Some people are just lucky that way, you know?
AMANDA: I thought you were gonna say that some people have free apartments where they can work as a super in exchange for rent, and I was like, "Me also."
MEGAN: Very jealous of that.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: “So I was kind of annoyed and went back inside. Having had dealings with spirits in the past, I informed the entity I was going to bed and I would like for it to leave me alone, and it did, for the night. Over the next two to three weeks, the knocks had happened on and off. Sometimes I had guests over and they would go to answer, but there was always no one there. My girlfriend at the time refused to stay the night because she said she could hear knocks in the night after I'd fallen asleep. One night, I was in a bad mood. I don't remember what upset me, but I wasn't in the mood for pranks or this poltergeist. While trying to get some sleep, it knocked softly a few times, and I didn't respond like I normally did. Instead, this time I chose to ignore it. The knocking got louder and more insistent. I pretended I couldn't hear it. Then it got straight-up violent, banging the door physically, I could feel it vibrating."
JULIA: Uh-uh.
AMANDA: "Very annoyed by this point, I jumped out of bed and screamed at the door, “Shut up! Go away! I've had enough of you!” At which point, of course, my house keys flew horizontally off the dining table and smashed against the wall.”
JULIA: Again, politeness gets you a long way with a lot of, like, ghosts and spirits and stuff like that. So yelling at them is usually not going to work out super well in your favor.
MEGAN: Probably hurt its feelings.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Yeah, yeah. And it just wanted to be let in—
MEGAN: Yeah.
JULIA: —you know? It's like an obnoxious cat that's just gonna keep meowing at the door until you let it inside.
LEXIE: Yup.
MEGAN: Could we get like a poltergeist door, like a cat flap but for poltergeist?
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: Maybe.
AMANDA: That's a great idea.
JULIA: Maybe, you know?
LEXIE: But if they're transparent, do they need a flap?
MEGAN: But this is… I don't know. I don't know.
JULIA: Well, clearly, it wants to be let in or let out.
LEXIE: Yeah.
JULIA: So maybe the flap is a good— yeah.
AMANDA: An acknowledge.
MEGAN: There's a gap in the market here.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yeah.
MEGAN: Absolutely a gap in the market.
JULIA: It's like, you know—
LEXIE: A vampire, because it needs to be invited in.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: I feel like it just more wants attention, which is why I think that a little door just for them, like even if, you know, the cat could nudge open the screen door or whatever, sometimes just like having the thing that they know is for them is— is enough. And I think having like a little poltergeist door at the very top— tip top of the door will be really cute.
LEXIE: I mean, we could just bring back the Ancient Roman custom of having larariums in our houses.
MEGAN: Absolutely.
LEXIE: I mean, they have, like, household shrines. And you know what? You could— you could even bring in some like Irish Mythology, build the little houses—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
LEXIE: —kind of like for the fairies and shit. Like, let's just have larariums, and I'm actually a huge proponent. I'm like I love the idea of having larariums in our like—
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
LEXIE: —spaces. Although if you don't like ghosts or the idea of like household spirits there, then that might be an issue. But, like, the point of them was that they were protective spirits of the family, so like they shouldn't be scary.
JULIA: Yeah. And, like, worst-case scenario like the ghost is already there, you might as well, like, make a little spot that's just theirs, so that they don't feel like they get free reign of the house.
AMANDA: Yeah, people do this. They have household shrines, they have ofrendas, like this is a thing that— that people do all the time, and it's wise, I think, to have a place where it's channeled to almost. But let's— let's see what happens to Keen and her Poltergeist. “I screamed and flung open the door, ran up the stairs to the border house, and retreated inside. I stayed with one of the student girls for the night, shaken and upset.”
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: "That was scary. “The next morning I stormed into my kitchen and filled a bucket with warm water and a whole container of salt. I scrubbed the door down and grumbled the entire time about entitled ghosts being rude. And I gotta tell you, there was no knocking after that.”
JULIA: Wow. That was smart. The— the saltwater is a really interesting vibe. I like that a lot.
MEGAN: I get quite testy if people, like, stop me from sleeping and interrupting my sleep. So politeness, I do see that being a— a better way to go, but I think if I was sleep-deprived and someone kept knocking on my door, I'd be like, "Shut up. We can talk in the morning. You're still going to be here, I'm still going to be here. It can't be that important that you need to stop me from sleeping."
AMANDA: I think I'd go with, like, a cute little knockback on like the floor, the bed stand, you know, the— the headboard, like whatever it is. They knock at the door, I do a little knock, knock on the— on the wall, like my siblings and I used to do when we would be in, you know, separate rooms and— on vacation or something.
JULIA: I like that a lot.
LEXIE: Like, "I hear you, I acknowledge. We'll continue this later."
AMANDA: Tap, tap Yes. Good night. A bit of an update though, the story doesn't end there. Keen continues. “A few weeks later, my mom came to visit. Entering my flat, she noticed that the sky blue door was covered in scrub marks. My mom asked me, 'Did you have a problem with the door?' I said, 'Maybe. Why?' 'Oh, I just wondered if you had any issues with it, because the man I bought it off of told me a funny story.'”
JULIA: Oh, come on.
MEGAN: You lead with this shit.
JULIA: This makes me go mad.
MEGAN: If you're putting haunted stuff in houses, you tell people about it.
JULIA: Oh, God.
AMANDA: “'Well, when I went to pick it up,' she said, 'He told me that for years there'd been a ghost in their house that would open cabinets and throw their lounge cushions on the floor. But when he bought a new door, it all stopped.'”
JULIA: Weird.
AMANDA: “'And that's why he was selling this one.'”
JULIA: Oh, so strange. And then you just bought it? Did you just left with it?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
MEGAN: It's a mystery.
JULIA: Goddamnit.
AMANDA: “I was pretty pissed with my mom in this moment and the knocking and the fight, I told her all about it. And when I told her I had salted door, she simply responded, 'Yeah, I probably should have done that before we installed it.'”
JULIA: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you should have.
AMANDA: “Now, I do that for every new place I move into, ghosts or no."
JULIA: Uh-hmm. That makes sense. That— that— you know what? It's better safe than sorry in that regard, for sure.
LEXIE: I don't know if it makes it better or worse, but you read that she had salted the door, I— I heard assaulted the door and I was about to make a funny pun because it was like, "Well, I mean—"
JULIA: Gotta fight that door, yeah.
AMANDA: Especially, I think with a door knocker with a character, that is so evocative. My grandma had a doorbell in the shape of a sun for a long time, like a, you know, classical sun with kind of like a face in it. You know, it was very cheerful, I don't think it's haunted, but it feels like it's filled with personality. I think especially like I love a door with a bright color. I love a door knocker. I love a— you know some amount of character in a door. I just— I expect the door to have an opinion.
JULIA: Yeah. No, because like it makes me think of a Christmas carol and the transforming doorknob and stuff like that. Like, it— that just makes sense to me, in my mind.
AMANDA: Keen also included another story that I really love, called My Great Grandfather's Ghost Doesn't like Dubstep. So I just thought dwelling in this house together, I just— I wanted to finish off with this story as well.
JULIA: We gotta, we gotta.
AMANDA: “The house that was my grandparents' was previously owned by my great-grandparents on my grandmother's side. Even before it was turned into a boarding house for university students, you would hear my great-grandfather's footsteps upstairs. I remember being about eight years old helping my grandmother in the laundry downstairs and looking up at the old-boarded ceiling as I heard someone walked in the upstairs door into the living room, and the sound of a chair being pulled out and sat on. I should note by the way the room was carpeted. There were no chairs, there were only two heavy couches. My grandmother patted me on the back and said, 'Don't worry, it's just Poppy.' Smiling to herself probably thinking about her father's ghost. Years later, when we turn the downstairs of the house into my apartment, I would hear the footsteps as well. They'd always go from the front door into the old lounge, chair pulled out with legs scraping on wood, and then silence as he sat."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: “This would happen when there was no one else home and the room was still carpet, and now by the way, a university student's bedroom.” Now, would you guys sort of negotiate some discount in rent in exchange like, "This ghost sounds great. They have just like a predictable pattern. You know, he wants to sit in his chair, read the paper, et cetera. I'd be cool with that. Maybe not my bedroom ideally, I'd prefer that in like a sitting room or kitchen, but that's okay."
JULIA: Amanda, you've dealt with a lot of landlords in your past, do you think any of those would have given you a discount for a ghost?
AMANDA: Nah, dude.
JULIA: Yeah. I don't think so, either.
AMANDA: “But one night, the borders we're having a party upstairs. There were quite a few guests and all of them were drinking, having a nice time. One of the guys decided he wanted to play some of his new dubstep CDs. Yes, this was 2011. We were standing in his bedroom, which used to be the old lounge, and he put the CD in the player. Then I felt a pressure on my shoulder. I immediately had the feeling that there was a spirit there and they didn't want that music to be played. I wanted to say, 'Hey, wait, let's turn it down,' when the music blared over the system. I was hit with a palpable wall of anger, such that I actually felt scared. Suddenly, a standing electric fan that was by itself across the room, toppled over with a loud crash and turned on by itself. The guy shut off the music and stared and shaken at the fan. And then I said, 'I think you upset pop.' Needless to say, we kept the party out of his room from that point, onward.”
JULIA: Smart. Good call. Again, we were talking about, like, creating spaces for these ghosts, so that they don't haunt the whole house. That's his room, don't fuck around in his room. That's all.
AMANDA: I do want to say a— a bit of a sober note ending this email.
JULIA: Uh-oh.
AMANDA: But it is— it is creepy, so I think it's worth it. So Keen concludes to say that, you know, I mentioned that the house used to be not carpeted like that room is now carpeted, but it wasn't before. “Because my grandfather actually died in that room"— or great grandfather. "One afternoon he came home, lit his smoke sat down in that chair, leaned back on the two back legs, like he liked to do, lost his balance, and cracked his head open on the radiator.”
JULIA: Nooo!
AMANDA: That is how he died. And so she thinks that he is repeating this— this final routine of smoking his pipe, reading his paper, and leaning back in his chair.
JULIA: I mean, that makes sense, but I hate it.
MEGAN: I was gonna say him essentially dying over and over again brings a whole level of sadness to the story that was not there previously.
JULIA: I know. The context makes it sadder.
AMANDA: You know, I'm simply reading the news.
LEXIE: Yo.
JULIA: I think it's really interesting the way that, in a lot of stories, ghosts repeat patterns that kind of— they did in life and the fact that this ghost has his, like, little routine and reading his newspaper and— and—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —chillin' down on his little— his little chair.
AMANDA: I do have a final digestif, a final, little treat to send us out on. From Leo titled Aquarium Goes Past the Shark.
JULIA: Oh.
AMANDA: And it's just a couple paragraphs, so I— I think we do have to finish with this.
JULIA: Okay, okay.
AMANDA: Okay. So Leo says, “I work at Wonders of Wildlife, an aquarium in Springfield, Missouri. As I listen to The Fae episode of the podcast when you mentioned Pooka, it reminded me of something I've been experiencing for years. This is the story of the bait ball phantom shark.”
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: “So our aquarium opened about six years ago and has remained very similar with a couple changes and additions, like Chloe the three-toed sloth. The second room in the aquarium is called the bait ball, or as the kids call it, the fish tornado, which really describes what it is.”
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. I've seen those before.
AMANDA: “It's full of herring. And for about the first six months there was a male, white-tipped reef shark in there with them. He was quickly removed from the tank for several reasons, mostly because it was too small for him and put too much stress on the smaller fish.”
JULIA: I would imagine.
AMANDA: “As far as I know, he's still alive. He's totally fine, which is why I'm confused about what I've seen in the bait ball. I've been working here for a year and a half now. And several times I've walked past and seeing little kids looking up, pointing, and saying some things like, "Look, mommy, look, daddy, there's the shark." And every so often, I'll look up and see, in fact, the shadow of a reef shark swimming around on the top of the water. Once I actually saw her as an almost physical being, at which point I could see clearly, yes, this was a female shark. I decided to call her Pooka after the dog in Anastasia, but also apparently a fairy from your Fae episode. This is the first time I've ever told anyone about seeing her, so maybe I've been seeing this just on my own and also all the kids, but I think she's amazing.”
JULIA: She sounds amazing. I can— are you sure they removed her? Because, like, at that point, I'm like—
AMANDA: Yes, they removed her.
JULIA: "—if you're seeing her, like, what else could it be? Like, did they replace her with something?" No, it's just still the— the squat of herring.
MEGAN: Didn't he say that the first— the shark that was originally in there was a male shark anyway.
JULIA: Oh, yeah. Good point.
AMANDA: Yes. A male, white-tipped reef shark, and the shark that remains is a female shark.
JULIA: Interesting.
AMANDA: Love the idea of a ghost shark.
LEXIE: I love the idea of a ghost shark, because I just love sharks. Also, how did I not know there was a shark in that aquarium? I have a good friend, he's from Springfield, MO.
JULIA: Oh.
LEXIE: So I was like, "Hmm."
MEGAN: You need to plan a trip and see this ghostly shark, and then report that to the rest of the class.
LEXIE: I— I do. I'll call my friend and be like, "Yo, so can I come visit you?"
AMANDA: Well, Lexie, if you do end up visiting the aquarium, Leo included a PS which is, “I want to tell you about the zebra shark in the first room of the aquarium as well. She's so glamorous, and beautiful, and would definitely look like a ghost if the lighting in the exhibit was just a little bit darker. Her name is Alfredo, and she and Pooka are the definition of kind of creepy kind of cool.”
JULIA: Alfredo's such a good name for a shark.
MEGAN: That' perfect.
LEXIE: I love it. No, I— I need to go do this.
JULIA: Please visit Alfredo and also Pooka.
LEXIE: I— I need to because I just— I need more sharks in my life, you know? I'm a— I mean, I— suppose now that I'm kind of close to the ocean, I could try to find some sharks, but that might be a little scary. But, yeah, there's some pretty cool sharks out there, that are, you know, kind of creepy. One day, you know, the most haunting thing I'd like to see in my life is a real-life goblin shark or frilled sharks—
JULIA: Hmm.
LEXIE: —because those things are terrifying, but I love them.
JULIA: Yeah. They're very scary.
LEXIE: So who knows if I'll get to see one? But that would be the haunting I would like to see.
MEGAN: My 10-year-old recently learned about the Megalodon and is obsessed, and keeps genuinely asking me, "Maybe— maybe there could still be some in the ocean somewhere." And I'm like, "Baby, that pretty big, though. I think someone might've noticed, but maybe—"
AMANDA: Possible.
MEGAN: She's—
JULIA: Maybe.
MEGAN: Yeah. loves— loves them.
JULIA: Just remind her, the ocean is so undiscovered at this point. There might be one in there.
MEGAN: This is what she counters with when I say, "They're pretty big." And she's like—
JULIA: She's— she's very smart.
MEGAN: "—But, Megan, it's so big, who knows what's that like?" I mean, I can't answer. I'm not an oceanologist.
LEXIE: Look, I watched every deep sea ocean documentary I can get my hands on, because I love that stuff. So I see the kinds of things that are down there. I mean, the giant squid is massive, it's like 28 feet long.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
LEXIE: So I'm like, "You know, it could fit, but it—"
JULIA: Yeah.
LEXIE: —would just have to have evolved so that it could be really deep, and the lung capacity would have to have been changed. So I'm like, "I don't know. But, you know, if you really want to just see cool Meg stuff, just watch the movie, The Meg, and the Meg 2, which just came out."
MEGAN: Possibly not with my 10-year-old.
JULIA: Show that 10-year-old, The Meg.
AMANDA: Incredible. Well, Megan and Lexie, thank you so much for joining us for these hometown urban legends. Can you please remind the conspirators where they can follow each of you and the show online?
MEGAN: Absolutely. So most of my social media stuff is Digital Hammurabi. I'm not really on Twitter anymore, but when I am it's at digi_hammurabi. Our website is digitalhammurabi.com same for YouTube. Reading Party is The Reading Party Podcast available on all good podcasting apps. We do also have a YouTube channel, which gets all of the— the podcasts updates and the occasional bonus video feature. I don't have a web address for that, because it's still very small. So it's like youtube.com/, a bunch of random characters that I have not yet memorized. But if you like books, literature, movies, TV inspired by the ancient world, we're probably worth a listen.
LEXIE: You can find all my stuff either at Lexie Henning, which is all my personal stuff. Or if you want to find my more official business stuff, you can find me at the ozymandiasproject.com, so that is my nonprofit for humanity stuff. We have a lot of cool, exciting things. I'll just say you can find all the stuff I do, including my other podcasts, there. And then if you want to find the third podcast I do— well, either just type in Legacies of Ancient Persia, and you will find that everywhere online, or you can go to our website pourdavoud.ucla.edu. And you can find me on the staff page and all of the cool work things related to Ancient Persia.
JULIA: Yeah. And you can find most of those links in the show notes, in the episode description of this episode, so check those out if you need easy access.
MEGAN: Thank you guys so much for having us.
LEXIE: Yeah.
MEGAN: This was a lot of fun.
LEXIE: It was so fun.
JULIA: It is our pleasure. And remember, listeners, next time you hear a spooky knocking at your door, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
[theme]