Episode 387: The Muses
/We hope you’re feeling as divinely inspired as we are in this episode about the Muses! We dive into their origins, their idiosyncrasies, and the role they play in both Ancient Greek society and our society today (and invent some of our own!)
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of colonialism, racism, death, murder, body horror, incest, pregnancy/birth, and war.
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
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About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And Amanda, we've talked a lot about Greek mythology here on the show, but I realized that there was a group of goddesses that we've only really tangentially mentioned, but never have really done a deep dive into. And you might say that I was divinely inspired for the theme of this episode.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah?
JULIA: Because we are going to be talking about the Greek muses.
AMANDA: Hey, I love them. And this really feels like one of those words, and one of those concepts that we refer to all the time in everyday speech, and may not realize are rooted in mythology and folklore.
JULIA: Exactly. Yeah. I think a lot of people maybe, like, understand the concept of the muse, but don't understand exactly, like, who they were, how many of them there were, what their names might have been. So we're going to be doing a— a little deep dive into them. Now, because these were, as a whole, like very important goddesses. They are also, like, considered, by Greek standards at least, to be minor goddesses. So there's not a ton of information on them as individuals. But I do think that there is a lot of, like, really interesting background on who they are, and kind of like how they intersect and how they change depending on who is telling the stories about them.
AMANDA: I'm into it. I'm excited to learn.
JULIA: Yes. Now, these are nine, usually, goddesses who— basically they act as inspiration for various arts and sciences that they are associated with. So as is usually the case, who those goddesses are, and what they were associated with definitely depends on the time period that we're talking about, and also like the region of Greece that we're referring to.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: Which is something that we don't talk a lot about here on the show, but is very important to, like, understanding different goddesses and their roles in society.
AMANDA: Julia, overall, when thinking about muses, and I don't know, being visited by inspiration, I know it's something that we talk about a lot. I had the opportunity to kind of interview you about you as a creative professional and your creative origins for a show we do here a Multitude, behind our— our Multi-Crew only paywall, which you can join a multicrew.club. And we talked a lot about, like, where inspiration comes from and how to stay connected to your creativity. And it's something that I'm working on myself personally this year. So that's the lens I'm bringing to this episode and something I'm excited to think and to talk more about.
JULIA: Yes, I am as well. And I think that the Greek muses are a really interesting kind of example of, kind of, specializing in mythology, particularly gods and goddesses. We tend to see a lot of different gods and goddesses have, like, domains that is their main domain, but then they have very separate domains. There's one muse that is kind of the— the exception to this rule, but in general, these are like very specified domains that we're going to be talking about, so I'm very excited to talk about it. But the standardized muses from sort of the, like, peak of ancient Greek history, the— the classical era of Greek history. They were Calliope, Clio, Polyhymnia, Euterpe, ,Terpsichore, Erato, Melpomeni, Thalia, and Urania.
AMANDA: Okay. Calliope and Clio, I've heard of before. Terpsichore sounds so much like a Pokemon that I'm extremely mad that's not true.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. Yeah. The folks who have been watching the current season of Dimension 20 might recognize that name as one of the NPCs that is being utilized in the show, but you'll hear more about her in a little bit.
AMANDA: Classic D&D drawing from capital C, Classical mythology.
JULIA: Exactly. So before we dig into these individual goddesses themselves, let's talk a little bit more about the origins of the muses and their role in Greek mythology. So we know that the first records of the muses comes from like central Greece, particularly they're from a region that is called Boeotia. Though, the ancient Greeks in tracing their own history believed that the goddesses were first worshipped in Thrace. Now, in Thrace, there were only three muses, though, obviously they expanded to nine by the time that someone like Homer was talking about them, for example.
AMANDA: Feels divined. Three sets of three.
JULIA: Exactly. Amanda, you— you're already looking ahead and— and doing all the things. I love it. It's so great.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: However, in Delphi, as you know the— the— the home of the Oracle of Delphi, the three muses were also worshipped for a time and because of Delphi's association with the god Apollo, who is associated with prophecy, they were also associated with the three chords of the instrument, the lyre.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Which was gifted to Apollo by Hermes, and it's one of his symbols.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: Now, in some of the later worship of these versions of the muses, they were considered the daughters of Apollo. We'll kind of see that Apollo and the muses are kind of intrinsically linked in a lot of different versions of this mythology. But the three muses like as a— as a group of three rather than a group of nine would also be repeated by the Roman scholar Varro, who would go further to say that they embodied practice, memory, and song. Specifically, he gets into detail, quote, "One born from the movement of water, another who makes sound by striking the air, and a third who is embodied only by the human voice."
AMANDA: This is fascinating. I— I have so many things I'm already thinking about, and I'm excited to see how they evolve over time. But to begin with, I have to say, the idea of sound striking the air is incredibly accurate to physics and a very helpful metaphor for, like, acoustical engineering that I'm definitely going to steal.
JULIA: Yeah. I think that's something that's really interesting. I always really love when, like, early humans who don't quite understand science as we understand it today, or physics as we understand it today, being able to, like, pull out things that are true and interesting about science, is always like— I'm like, "Man, we, like, kind of got it even if we didn't know like the math behind it yet." That's so cool.
AMANDA: And it makes me even more mad about like scientific gatekeeping, indigenous ways of knowing, treating them as less true and less valid. I hope we're unpacking that bias with our entire show, but this is just one of many examples.
JULIA: The racism of, "Oh, aliens must have build these pyramids because these people couldn't have understood how that math and science works."
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: So back in classical Greek times, going away from Varro and the Romans, Hesiod was the first to write about the Nine Muses as the nine daughters of Zeus and the goddess Mnemosyne who is the personification of memory and is one of the Titans, so the Divine Child of Gaia and Uranus. Now, at this point, the Nine Goddesses which, again, you pointed out so eloquently before, Amanda, a triple form of the Triad that was previously worshipped.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: They didn't quite have their specific functions. that wouldn't come until later during the Hellenistic period. But what we do know is that when Hesiod was writing about them during the classical period, the goddesses were generally just like— in general, embodying art and creation.
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: As well as inspiring those who created through oral tradition as well as improvised song writing and dance, which were, like, the kind of, like, classical art forms of classical Greece.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: Now, Hesiod also tells a story about how the birth of the Muses brought people forgetfulness. Saying just forgetfulness sounds bad, but what Hesiod was actually meaning when he says that is that their art and inspiration brought humanity away to forget the pain of their lives, as well as the pain of constant obligation.
AMANDA: Oh, sure. So we may say, like, escapism or transcendence as a sort of synonym there.
JULIA: Exactly. Like, he's talking about a world in which, like, art does not exist.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Like the— like beauty of the world that is created by humanity does not exist. And that is a very painful world in which to live in.
AMANDA: That's amazing.
JULIA: I think Hesiod was right on the money.
AMANDA: You can tell, Julia— I'm just gonna do a little— a little pull over the car right here. I've been doing a lot of reading about socialism recently. I— I've been really—
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: —particularly on my anti-capitalist bent. And, yeah, like, think about a world where all of your time is, you know, occupied by toil and capitalist production. For many of us who don't think too far. that's— that's pretty close to where we are. And not being able to forget pain, obligation, labor schedule.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: What's the point? And so thinking about, again, these— these muses as a way to— or an— a source of— sort of like picking yourself up from that river of time and obligation and flow and materiality, and being able to just be, and just express and enjoy, and love, and live. Like, I— I'm so into it. That's— that's the point of being alive for me.
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, think about the living in the capitalist society that we currently live in, and you go to work, and you come home. What is, like, the first thing you do besides eat? You probably like put on some music or turn on the TV and watch a movie or a television show, or you read a book before you go to bed.
AMANDA: Play a game. Yeah, anything.
JULIA: Imagine a world without those things to distract you from the like capitalist hellscape we live in. That would be a world without the Muses. And that's what Hesiod is saying when he's like— he brings these people forgetfulness, in that they don't have to constantly think about their obligations and responsibilities and the pain of their lives.
AMANDA: Fascinating. I would kind of question like, which of those is real, right? Like, which of those is the one we want to spend the most time in? But I'm— I'm excited to percolate on this more.
JULIA: So moving on, as I mentioned earlier, the Muses are associated with the god Apollo, mainly because of his association with music and the arts. Now, there's a couple of stories in which like the Muses and Apollo are kind of linked. So the first one I'll tell you is a story in which they acted as judges for a contest between Apollo and a satyr named Marsyas.
AMANDA: Now, is this like an Olympic situation? Is this a Top Chef situation? Is this an American Ninja Warrior?
JULIA: I— it's very kind of classic Greek, "Oh, I'm going to challenge a god because I think I'm better than them," hubris situation.
AMANDA: Okay. Okay.
JULIA: It's— it's a real— so it's— it's a music-based competition.
AMANDA: Got it.
JULIA: So I guess like The Voice?
AMANDA: Or Masked Singer, where we're supposed to judge people on their merits and not their personality. Okay, let's see.
JULIA: Okay. Okay. So this satyr, Marsyas, was said to be an expert player of the double reed flute, kind of similar to an oboe, which was known as the aulos. Now in an act of hubris, as I mentioned before, he challenged Apollo to a contest to prove that he was the better musician. And the winner would be able to treat the loser however he wanted. That is like the reward that one gets if they would contest against a god, right?
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Now, there's a couple of different versions of how this contest goes. So in one version, he plays his flute so well that it puts everyone into a frenzy, which causes them to like dance wildly, but then Apollo plays his lyre and he's able to calm everyone down and claim victory.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: There's another version that says that Marsyas was able to actually defeat Apollo, but then Apollo began to sing along with his playing of the lyre, and so he's proclaimed the victor by the Muses. And he— meanwhile, Marsyas was like, "Well, that's not fair. We're supposed to be, you know, judged on the merit of how well we play." And Apollo is like, "Well, not only are the Muse is in charge of the, like, playing of instruments, but they are also in charge of the songs that come out of our mouths." Our mouth, too, is an instrument is basically his argument there.
AMANDA: Bummer, dude. Not what we talked about at all.
JULIA: No, not fair, in— in my opinion, but okay, Apollo. And then the last version of the tale that I found is that Marsyas yet again is able to claim victory over Apollo, until Apollo, being the show off that he is, turns his lyre upside down and he's able to play with the same amount of skill. And Marsyas is like, "I'm playing a flute, I can't do that."
AMANDA: "It doesn't work that way."
JULIA: And so he's like, "I guess I lose."
AMANDA: Bummer.
JULIA: As punishment for challenging a god in the first place, Apollo has him skinned alive and then used his skin as a wind sack.
AMANDA: No! Apollo, just get a flask.
JULIA: Nope, nope.
AMANDA: Why?
JULIA: Because he's an asshole, and it's also a hubris thing.
AMANDA: Oh, boy. I mean, yes, don't challenge a god, but is anything worth becoming a god's wine flagging?
JULIA: No. No. No.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Yeah, that's just hubris for you, baby. The Greeks had strong opinions about it.
AMANDA: Man, no one does anecdotes like the Greeks.
JULIA: Yeah. Interestingly, the Muses themselves were sometimes even challenged in similar contests. So for example, there was a Thracian singer whose name was Thamyris, who was in love with one of the lovers of Apollo, whose name is Hyacinth.
AMANDA: Uh-oh. Now, Julia, Hyacinth is a flower, therefore, I think something bad happened to this woman.
JULIA: We had— so it's a dude, actually.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: And Hyacinth also, we've talked about in the Apollo episode, as one of the lovers of Apollo. Something does happen to him—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —that is terrible, and then he gets turned into a flower as you can imagine, because this is Greek mythology.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: But, basically, Thamyris wanted to win Hyacinth's love despite the fact that Hyacinth was in love with Apollo. And so he wrote him many songs that he performed for Hyacinth, but Hyacinth unmoved by those songs. And in his frustration, Thamyris brags that he can surpass even the Muses in voice. Basically, he's like, "What's your problem? Like, I am so talented at singing. Why don't you love me? I mean, I'm even better than them Muses are."
AMANDA: I— I definitely get the frustration of being like, "How— how could you be unmoved by this?" But man, just— just don't invoke the gods. Just— just keep it to the mortal coil, baby.
JULIA: Yeah. So obviously, the Muses angered by this, accept the brag as a challenge.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And Thamyris was like, "Okay, well, I'll do this challenge with you. If I win, one of you has to become my bride." I was like, "First off, you're so in love with this other guy all of a sudden, now you want to have one of these women as your bride. Fine, whatever."
AMANDA: But Julia, this is very second act of a rom com, right?
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Where you're like, "Fine. If you won't have me, then I'll go date your neighbor."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "Or whatever."
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: "And your best friend, your boss, whatever." And then, you know, after— only after doing that, you realize like, "No, I really want to be with you the whole time."
JULIA: Yes. It's also very, like, trophy wife-ish, I think.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So the Muses are like, "Okay," accepting the challenge. But Amanda, they're— they're the givers of musical inspiration, so what they did is they simply stole away his singing voice and also robbed him of his ability to play the lyre.
AMANDA: Oh. I mean, yeah.
JULIA: And since he couldn't compete with them, he's punished and he has his eyes gouged out by the goddesses.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Why the eyes and not the throat? And why not make him not able to sing?
JULIA: I don't know. Well, they already— they already made it impossible for him to sing. They're like—
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: —"You know what's worse? We're just going to also gouge your eyes out."
AMANDA: They didn't even give it back.
JULIA: Oh, no.
AMANDA: They were just like—
JULIA: He does not get it back.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: So despite the fact that these are goddesses of art, and song, and music, and all the other things that we consider, like, nice and like important to society, they're also just as vengeful and vindictive as any of the other gods and goddesses. Especially when they're crossed the way that Thamyris crossed them, you know?
AMANDA: Julia, they're Greek gods. They're going to be petty bitches.
JULIA: They are. They are. There's one more story about them being kind of petty bitches. And this one comes from Ovid's Metamorphoses. So there is a king named Pyrrhus, who named his nine daughters after the Nine Muses.
AMANDA: Oh, that's nice.
JULIA: Very nice.
AMANDA: Okay. You have nine daughters, you gotta name them after the Muses.
JULIA: Exactly. And then he starts bragging that their skills are greater than the Muses and their various art forms.
AMANDA: No. Why? Why would you do that? I was so excited.
JULIA: So he challenges the Muses, which come on, guy. Come on.
AMANDA: Come on.
JULIA: Obviously, they lose. The Muses transform them into jays or magpies depending on what the translation is, and so they are constantly chattering and singing, and that is why those birds are constantly, like, calling out.
AMANDA: Oh, no. That's like having five sons naming them after the, like, '92 Chicago Bulls and then being like, "Michael Jordan, let me go to your house and tell you why my children are better than you." Like, come on. Come on.
JULIA: You're not wrong. That's exactly what that is.
AMANDA: Come on.
JULIA: All right. We'll talk about the Muses themselves. Like I said, there's nine of them by the classical period. They were associated by this point with specific types of art. So we have Calliope, who's the muse of epic poetry. Clio, who's the muse of history. Polyhymnia who's the muse of mime, and some other stuff, we'll get into it.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Euterpe who's the muse of the flute. Terpsichore who is the muse of verse and dance. Erato, who is the muse of choral poetry. Melpomene, who is the muse of tragedy, like in terms of performance, not like actual life tragedy.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: Thalia, the muse of comedy. And Urania, the muse of astronomy. And we'll be doing a deeper dive into each of these Muses, but first, I think I'm feeling inspired, Amanda, to go grab our refill.
AMANDA: Oh, let's do it.
[theme]
AMANDA: Hello, everybody. It's Amanda here. And welcome to the refill, the moment in our day when we get to take a little breath, take a little break, and learn about some products and services, and also what's going on with Spirits and Multitude. Always try to make it worth your while. So first here in the refill, I would love to thank each and every one of you who supports the show on Patreon. We know that it's a big deal to make a little space in your budget every month to support a show that you care about and you want to keep existing. And if you want to give back with your dollars to Spirits, if we brighten your day, if you look forward to seeing us in your week, then we'd greatly appreciate it if you would support the show for as little as four bucks a month at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. Thank you to our supporting producer-level patrons, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Arianna, Ginger Spurs Boi, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, and Sarah. And our legend- level patrons, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Jeremiah, Michael, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. Guys, I have been really appreciating and donating to this organization called Seeding Sovereignty for several years now. They're incredible. They are an outcropping of several indigenous solidarity and activism throughout the 2010s. They are also doing a lot of work right now for Gaza solidarity, including a guide to making action pods with people you know. A really great resource that they publish for free on their website. I have been a monthly donor for several years as they're helping folks who are indigenous and have had their land taken away to Seeding Sovereignty, to get that land back, and to have economic and cultural sovereignty on their own terms. It's wonderful, a multilevel collective, and I highly recommend you follow them on social media @Seeding Sovereignty, and check out their website, seedingsovereignty.org, including contributing if you have the means. This week at Multitude, lots going on, including I get to see one of our other hosts in person, Dr. Moiya McTier of Pale Blue Pod. Corinne, a little hard to track down, but Moiya does live here in New York City and so I get to hang out with her which I'm so excited about. And why should you care? Because Pale Blue Pod is an astronomy podcast we make here Multitude led by Dr. McTier and her co-host Corinne Caputo as they demystify space one topic at a time. It is absolutely an incredible podcast. It makes you feel like odd, but also warm and also safe. And also like your worlds being expanded. They really do a wonderful job. I— I love when they communicate science to me, and you can listen to them do so every single Monday at Pale Blue Pod. We are sponsored this week by CrunchyRoll Presents: The Anime Effect. Now this is a podcast by CrunchyRoll as you might guess, about anime and all the ways that anime shows up throughout our world. It's hosted by a bunch of really smart, talented, funny people who give you both news and updates, but also deep dives on shows and pop culture all related to anime. And as someone who is, like, peripheral to anime, but it's not my main genre, I really appreciate the lens and the context they bring to stuff like Godzilla Minus One, which they just reviewed episodes about like One Piece, about Dragon Ball: Sparking! Zero. They are really, really good at making anime as like fascinating and complex as it is, even to me as somebody who doesn't know a ton about the subject. So you can go ahead and look up CrunchyRoll Presents: The Anime Effect anywhere you get your podcasts. We are also sponsored this week by Shaker & Spoon. Now, we had some unexpected company recently. Some family had to stay with us overnight and we had a, you know, a couple of hours to prepare. And one thing that I did not have to think about was whether or not I'd be able to, like, serve them a nice drink at the end of the day, because I have all my little syrups, and tinctures, and materials from Shaker & Spoon in my fridge, perfectly suited in proportions to make three different kinds of cocktails and four drinks of each cocktail, for one bottle of each spirit every single month. So if you wanted to try things like a certain blend of whiskey or Pisco or like a certain kind of rum, stuff that you might not otherwise pick up and you're like "Yeah, I mean, in theory, I want to know how to, you know, make cocktails with Aqua.v, but like when am I ever going to use a whole bottle of Aqua.v?" The answer is Shaker & Spoon. They are wonderful. They are a fellow Brooklyn-based small business and we love to work with them. You can get standalone boxes. You can get a subscription. You can buy a gift of three or six months for someone. They are super flexible and absolutely worth your while. For $20 off your first box, very kind of them to offer that you can go to shakerandspoon.com/creepy to get your special Spirits only discount now. That's shakerandspoon.com/creepy.
And now let's get back to the show.
[theme]
JULIA: Amanda, we're back, and kind of unsurprisingly, there are a lot of cocktails that evoke the Muses. There are constantly like, you know, writers need a little bit of divine inspiration in terms of alcohol sometimes.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: Artists are very similar. But my personal favorite is a cocktail from the bar Dead Rabbit in New York City—
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: —called The Artist's Muse. Now, this is a kind of like bittersweet, very like fruit-forward cocktail. It's got Pisco and Suze, as well as creme de peche and lemon juice. So it's like very like fruity and a little bit like bitter, and a little sweet, and like I— I just think it's a really great cocktail.
AMANDA: It seems like a full palette of flavors, if you will, and said, oh, something about like citrus, in particular. Just reminds me of like sitting in, you know, the dappled sunshine on the, you know, banks of the River Senne, maybe on the, you know, the cliffs of Greece, maybe we're on the— the shores of like the— the Arctic Circle, looking out over a landscape, ready to like, you know, set forth in Byronic verse.
JULIA: I like that a lot. That's awesome. So with these in hand, let's dig into our Muses. We'll start first with Calliope, who is the muse of epic poetry as well as eloquence, and was considered by some, such as Hesiod and Ovid, to be the chief of the Muses. So Hesiod certainly considered her the wisest of the Muses, and kind of portrays her as being the most assertive of the nine. A lot of times when— like, for example, in these ones where they are being challenged by hubris men, mostly, she is the one that is kind of leading the charge in the challenge itself.
AMANDA: And something about epic poetry gives me main character vibes. Something feels like the— the narrator— and maybe it's because it's the art that I personally am most drawn to, but it makes sense to me that somebody has to be in charge.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly. And this— she is like an incredibly important Muse, not only in like mythology, but also in like the history of ancient Greece, because she is said to be the Muse that inspired Homer for his tellings of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: Now, she is usually depicted as carrying a writing tablet, or like a scroll of paper, or like a roll of paper, and she is often depicted as wearing a gold crown.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: Now, she has several famous children and was said to be married to one of the kings of Thrace. And with him, though, sometimes, as we often talk about in Greek mythology, a parentage and lineage can be complicated depending on who is telling the story in the first place. So—
AMANDA: Julia, it's not incest, it's fine.
JULIA: It's not incest, it's fine. So it might have been the king of Thrace. It might have also been that these children were fathered by Apollo, again, it depends. But she gave birth to the famous musician and master of rhetoric, Linus, which did you know Linus was an ancient Greek name?
AMANDA: I sure didn't. I really associate him with the peanuts.
JULIA: Yes, I also really associate him with Ocean's 11. So—
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: So Linus was said to have been the inventor of melody and rhyme, which is really interesting, and was said to have been killed by a young Hercules when he attempted to play the lyre. And Linus was like, "You're playing the wrong notes. You're embarrassing me. Please don't do this." And then Hercules flew into a rage and killed him with his own lyre.
AMANDA: You know, we really forget about pre-Labor's Hercules and what a problematic—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —fave, he is.
JULIA: He's just out there killing— and, like, he was like a teenager at this point, too.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: Or like a— you know, like a young adult, basically. And then he just murdered a man with his own musical instrument.
AMANDA: Bummer.
JULIA: She also was most notably the mother of the famous singer Orpheus. Now, if you don't know who Orpheus is, hey, we've got lots of episodes on Greek mythology.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: I'm sure you could go back and find an episode on Orpheus and Eurydice. I believe in you. She was also said to have birthed, though through different fathers, the Sirens, as well as the Corybantes, who were the armed and dangerous dancers who worshipped the goddess Cybele with their dancing. And we'll talk a little bit more about them later, because, again, it depends on who's telling the story, and lineage, and stuff like that. But there is another Muse that was also said to be the mother of those.
AMANDA: I'm glad, because I hear armed and dangerous dancers and you know I have to know more.
JULIA: Exactly. All right. Next up, we have the goddess Clio, who is the muse of history. Now, her name comes from the Greek word that means to recount, to make famous or to celebrate.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Which I really liked that. And as such, she's also known as one of her epithets, which is the Proclaimer.
AMANDA: That's very good.
JULIA: That's dope, right?
AMANDA: That's very good.
JULIA: So she, like her sister, is often seen with a scroll or a book or a set of tablets, but it's also seen holding a trumpet, again, tying her back to that role of the Proclaimer. Now, she has one son of note, which is Hyacinth, who I mentioned earlier, who is the lover of Apollo. And ironically, she was said to have been the lover of Pierus, who you might also remember as that king who named all of his daughters after the Muses and then claimed that they were more talented than them, and then got turned into birds.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, I'm not sure what the timeline of that is, but Clio was not the mother of those daughters, and it was said that she was—
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: —made to fall in love with the king by Aphrodite, after Clio had chastised the love goddess about her affair with the mortal man, Adonis.
AMANDA: Just— just never— never say anything to Aphrodite is— is kind of my rule of thumb.
JULIA: So I have a feeling that it was like Pierus had these nine daughters, bragged about them. The nine daughters got turned into birds. Clio said something to Aphrodite about her relationship with Adonis, Aphrodite made her fall in love with this man who was punished via his hubris before.
AMANDA: It all completely checks out.
JULIA: Yes, that makes sense to me, timeline-wise, at least. All right. Next up, we have Polyhymnia who is the muse of sacred poetry and hymn, as well as dance eloquence, pantomime and oddly enough for the Muses, agriculture.
AMANDA: Hey, agricultural arts, we love to see it.
JULIA: She's also the one that I credited as being the— the muse of mine, which I think is very funny. She's kind of just all over the place in terms of her domains, certainly.
AMANDA: Yeah. Mime is less of a mainstream art form. I do know people who went to clown and mime school.
JULIA: Same.
AMANDA: Which, you know, it's a— it's a— a whole world adjacent to theater, within the theatre community. Extremely funny on its face, though, when you say the god of mime.
JULIA: She's also said to be the inventor of meditation and geometry.
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA: She's just a— a Jack of all trades. We love that for her.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: So she is actually— despite all of this being like the— the goddess of pantomime, and agriculture, and meditation, and geometry, and sacred poetry and hymn, she is said to be one of the more serious of the Muses.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: So oftentimes in art, she's seen holding a finger to her mouth like, "Shh."
AMANDA: I'm a mime. Hush. Meditation, I'm a mime. I guess— are we— are we supposed to do geometry silently too?
JULIA: Yes, they had to do math quietly, according to her.
AMANDA: Oh, God.
JULIA: So, she's usually portrayed with a finger to the mouth, and also is usually dressed in a long cloak and a veil, like covering the majority of her body as opposed to the other Muses who are dressed in formal attire, but— and also not like— I don't want to say slutty, but she is definitely dressed modestly.
AMANDA: Julia, everybody knows, all right, that if you're going to do geometry, if you're going to do farming, you have to be modestly dressed, completely silent. Those are the two preconditions to success.
JULIA: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Especially as a woman.
AMANDA: Especially as a woman, come on.
JULIA: So her name means many praises, which might be a nod to the fact that she has so many different associations and domains.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: And the Greek historian Diodorus Siculus described her as, quote, "Because by her great praises, she brings distinction to writers whose works have won them immortal fame." Despite her very seriousness and being all over the place, she is someone who brings distinction to those who call upon her, which is very nice.
AMANDA: All kidding aside, I really love that the view of geometry, and gesture, and agriculture as creative arts because they absolutely are.
JULIA: Yes. So her one notable child is the hero Triptolemus, who was said to have taught human beings about agriculture, and was pivotal in spreading the Eleusinian mysteries, as we've talked about in the Demeter episode. Very important.
AMANDA: Very cool.
JULIA: Also probably why she is associated with agriculture via her child.
AMANDA: You know, Julia, they talked about stem and they talk about steamm, but they don't talk about—
JULIA: Steam.
AMANDA: —steamm with two M's, and the last M is for mime.
JULIA: Oh, steamm.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: Gotcha. I was throwing an extra a in there for agriculture, but also I like the extra M for mime.
AMANDA: You can't forget the mime.
JULIA: You can't.
AMANDA: And there's a silent G for geometry, so just— just so you know.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. I like it. All right. Euterpe is up next. She presided over a music and lyric poetry. She was referred to as, quote, "the giver of delight." And her name comes from the words for rejoicing well and to please. Now, she is often shown holding the double flute and was said to have invented wind instruments in general, which is pretty cool.
AMANDA: Very cool.
JULIA: And do you remember that story about the satyr that I was telling you about, Marsyas?
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: It was said that the aulos, that— the double flute oboe thing that I mentioned that he played, she was said to have invented that as well. So, like, he really was, like, tempting fate by saying like, "Oh, I'm more skilled than Apollo at this," when one of the judges was the person who invented that instrument in the first place.
AMANDA: I know the double flute is a real thing. Am I picturing the, like, 12-neck guitar from Mad Max: Fury Road? I— I am, I am.
JULIA: And it also shoots fire. I love that. I love it.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: All right. So she was often called upon by musicians to inspire and guide them in making their music, usually through prayer. And the Thracian King Rhesus, he was said to be her son. And he is most famous for having fought on the side— or having aligned himself on the side of the Trojans during the Trojan War. I need to specify—
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: —that he didn't fight on the side of the Trojans because he arrived late to the war and was killed in his sleep without ever engaging in battle.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: It's pretty bad. It's not— not great.
AMANDA: Julia, it's— it's just like L. Ron Hubbard's actual service record in World War Two compared to what he claimed.
JULIA: Facts. All right. That's —that's all we have for her. But Terpsichore, whose name means delight in dancing, was the muse of dance and chorus. Like, you know, we talked about the Greek chorus as like the beginning of theater, right? Terpsichore was in charge of the chorus.
AMANDA: And I'm so glad you asked, Julia. I'm really feeling Terpsichore as like a grass fairy type with, like, some motion of the wind. There's some— you know, with the fairy powers there in— in the Pokemon universe, you can put folks to sleep or entrance them, or sort of, like, you know, enrapture them, put them under a spell, which, in my opinion, is what theater feels like.
JULIA: Yes. I think you're exactly on the money. And I think that's really interesting, because of the next point that I'm going to make, which is despite being the goddess of dance, she is almost always depicted in art as sitting down.
AMANDA: Really?
JULIA: Because she's playing the lyre to inspire the dancers with her music.
AMANDA: Oh, nice.
JULIA: So she's not doing the dancing herself.
AMANDA: Also, I follow a bunch of dancers that use mobility aids, and, you know, being seated doesn't mean you're not dancing.
JULIA: Hell yeah. So we don't have a ton of information on her, unfortunately. She is also said to be the mother of sirens, which is something that Calliope, as I mentioned, was also given credit for. However, she was said to be the mother of the Thracian king Biston, who was fathered by the god of war Ares. Now, Biston was famous for his worship and devotion to the cult of Ares, and was also famous for the fact that he, like, sought out an oracle on how best to defeat like a— a rival city and their army. And the oracle was like, "What if you—"
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "—tattooed all of your citizens with cool eye patterns? And if you do that, you'll win."
AMANDA: And so did he?
JULIA: And so he did.
AMANDA: And did they win?
JULIA: And they did end up winning. So—
AMANDA: Okay. Great. I mean, listen, if— if I were an Oracle, I'd be like, "What if you socialize healthcare? Just— just as a guess and then and then you'll definitely win this trade war." And everyone's like, "Oh, I guess so." And then by the time they do it—
JULIA: I mean—
AMANDA: —everything is better, and so then they win.
JULIA: Amanda, I really appreciate you using your oracular powers for good.
AMANDA: Thank you. Thank you.
JULIA: All right. So we'll hop over to Erato next. And then she was the muse of erotic and lyrical poetry. Now, her name means desired or lovely, and she was said to charm and bewitch those who set their eyes upon her.
AMANDA: I mean, I should hope so.
JULIA: I as well. So she wears a wreath of myrtle and roses, and is also usually seen holding a lyre. Again, that association with Apollo and the fact that they were, like— weren't a ton of other instruments really at the time for the ancient Greek.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: But sometimes it's not a lyre at all, I say that. But sometimes she is holding something called a kithara, which is a seven-string lyre] as opposed to Apollo's like three-string lyre.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Now her role as the muse of erotic poetry, she is sometimes seen holding a golden arrow, which is a reference to the god Eros, as we've talked about in the past.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And she was also evoked often in stories about star-crossed lovers, which is really interesting, given that her marriage was an arranged one, in which Zeus gave her— kind of to like a minor prince, whose name was Malus.
AMANDA: Malice, Malice?
JULIA: M-A-L-U-S. Pronounced similarly, not the same dude.
AMANDA: Okay. I'm like, "If this is the personification of Malice, then I get why it's star-crossed."
JULIA: Nah. He's just like a minor prince who, like, doesn't have a lot of importance. Like, the only, like, important to know thing is that she gave birth to a daughter whose name was Cleophema, who then gave birth to the princess Coronis, who would give birth to the god of medicine, Asclepius via Apollo as the father.
AMANDA: Fascinating. Well, thanks for medicine, I guess.
JULIA: Thanks for medicine. I like that it went from erotic poetry to medicine.
AMANDA: Okay. I know we have some— some doctors, and midwives, some nurses in the audience, let me know what you think of that combo.
JULIA: Please. Next up is Melpomene, who is the muse of tragedy. Her name means to sing or the one who is melodious.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Very nice. She is often portrayed holding a tragedy mask, which any theater kid would be very familiar with.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: Obviously. And she's also seen usually holding a lyre, scrolls, and a crown of leaves. And later in the Renaissance period, in particular, she is shown holding a dagger and a cup.
AMANDA: Okay. What were they for? The blood of her enemies.
JULIA: So during this period, she's described by this guy a well-known iconographer named Cesare Ripa. He describes her as, quote, "a gentlewoman all in mourning. She holds a bloody dagger in her right hand, behind her upon the ground, a garment of cloth of gold and diverse precious jewels. She is of a grave aspect in a heroic dress with her head finely attired. She holds a cup in one hand, a dagger in the other with a crown and a scepter at her feet. The grave aspect and heroic dress denote that tragedy is a representation of famous deeds and of history."
AMANDA: That's fair enough. I mean, that sounds like the kind of icon I could see on the cover of, like, dramatic monologues for auditions. You know what I mean? It— it— it's really bringing the gravitas that I associate with tragedy.
JULIA: It feels very Shakespearean in a way.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Being like, ah, yes, the dagger, the cup, ways to die in a—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —in a Shakespeare tragedy. Easy-peasy.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: So she is also said in classical times to have been the one that sings the songs of mourning for people of note after they die.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: Particularly, poets who drew their inspiration from the Muses. So when they died, she would sing them a grieving song, which I think is beautiful.
AMANDA: That is beautiful. It's like getting the— the best of the best to sing at your funeral.
JULIA: Exactly. All right, two more to go. We'll go with Thalia next, who is the muse of comedy and idyllic poetry. It is said that her name, which means to flourish or to be joyous, comes from the fact that the praises in her songs flourish through time.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: Beautiful.
AMANDA: And also it makes me smile because I know a lot of Thalias right now. And I think that's a lovely name meaning.
JULIA: I— I love the name Thalia. I think it's a really, really beautiful one. She, as opposed to her sister, carries a comic mask in her hand, is crowned in IV, and carries a bugle with her, though sometimes it's a— a shepherd staff instead.
AMANDA: Interesting.
JULIA: She was also said to be the lover of Apollo, and was said to be the mother of the Corybantes as I mentioned before, the armed dancers who worshipped Cybele. Now, these sons, by the way, would wear armor as they danced.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: And basically, the Greeks— like in talking about them, they're like— the Greeks believed that along with winemaking and music, dance was one of the signs that a civilization was in fact civilized.
AMANDA: Okay. I mean, I have a lot of problems with the term civilized, but I also think that artistic expression and thinking dance is cool, is cool.
JULIA: I can't think of a culture in the world that does not have—
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: —some form of music, some form of dance, and also, to be honest, some form of, like, at least in the ancient times, alcohol.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are ways to— to elevate our consciousness to be one with something bigger. And I, for one, get that feeling most when there is music, chanting, dance, and movement, or maybe meditation involved.
JULIA: Yes. And, like, I— there are obviously plenty of cultures where alcohol is not consumed for religious or cultural reasons or what have you. But if you're looking at like— we're talking about ancient peoples, we have been trying to get drugged for a long, long time.
AMANDA: I think I would say that we're— we're trying to transcend and—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —you know, part of it, you can do that with— with chemicals. You can do it with alcohol, you can do it with meditation, with fasting, with movement and dance, and chant. And all of these to me are— are methods of getting to that state where you feel not, you know, embodied like an individual, but one part of something bigger.
JULIA: Hell yeah. I love that. Speaking of something bigger, finally, we have Urania, who is the youngest of the Muses, but also sometimes said to be the eldest, again—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —depends on who's telling the story.
AMANDA: It's— Julia, it's just like if you ask whether Rudolph is the first or the last reindeer. Sometimes they named them first. Sometimes they named him last, but either way, he stands out.
JULIA: Yes, exactly. So she is the goddess of astronomy and astrology. And as you can probably guess, her name comes from the word for heavenly or of the heavens. Now, in her role as the goddess of the stars and astronomy, she is often seen carrying a globe and a compass as her symbols. And she is portrayed as wearing a cloak that is embroidered with stars and is often shown looking up at the heavens.
AMANDA: Nice. I feel like I've definitely seen her icon before.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Just in sort of art or statues.
JULIA: Yeah. And in a lot of like more modern art, not in the ancient Greek art, but in more like renaissance and beyond, she is often wearing a crown of stars.
AMANDA: Beautiful.
JULIA: So with her association with astrology, as well as astronomy, she is said to be able to tell the future through the alignment of the stars.
AMANDA: Naturally.
JULIA: Naturally. Her son was said to be Hymenaeus, who is the god of marriage ceremonies that are so dope that they inspire feasts in songs.
AMANDA: Hey, I mean, that's the review you're hoping for, right?
JULIA: Yes. Yes, exactly. So lyric poetry that is sung during the procession of a bride is named after this god, which is where we get the— the term hymn from.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: And he was often included as one of the winged gods, the Erotes, despite not being a son of Aphrodite.
AMANDA: That's awesome. That's very cool.
JULIA: Yes. And by the time that the Renaissance rolls around, Urania is given another domain of art, specifically Christian poetry.
AMANDA: Oh, boy. Okay. All right, syncretism. You're rarely this bold.
JULIA: Speaking of, Amanda, here's a little poetry corner about Urania by the poet James G. Percival. You're ready?
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: "Urania, o'er her star-bespangled lyre, with a touch of majesty diffused her soul. A thousand tones that in the breast inspire, exalted feelings, o'er the wires 'gan roll. How at the call of Jove, the mist unfurled, and o'er the swelling vault, the glowing sky, the newborn stars hung out there lamps on high, and rolled their mighty orbs to music's sweetest sound."
AMANDA: Nice. No— no complaints.
JULIA: Pretty beautiful. I like that. I'm into it.
AMANDA: Pretty good. Pretty good. I— I— I got on my defenses when I— when I heard Christian poetry. But, you know, that's—
JULIA: That one was not specifically Christian. They just gave her that later.
AMANDA: I like it.
JULIA: Yeah. I think it's beautiful. So, Amanda, those are the Muses and, like, they really— they played a big role in ancient Greek society to, quote, "carry a muse was to excel in the arts," as they would say.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: And they inspired everyone in areas like geography, mathematics, philosophy, art, drama, music. And I think the Greek poet Solon said it best. He said that the Muses for the Greeks were, quote, "the key to the good life."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: And his reason for that was, basically, they brought people together. They brought prosperity and friendship to civilization and inspired people to do their best.
AMANDA: I think that's so beautiful. And Julia, I'd love to— to close out this episode, by kind of asking you what your feeling and relationship is to inspiration. Do you feel like inspiration is a divine, or godly, or cosmic thing that comes from outside of you and touches you? Do you feel like you're channeling something bigger when you create? How do you feel about this?
JULIA: You know, like in a— a movie or TV or something like that, when like the stars align to, like, represent something that is going to, like, big cosmic, you know? I think of my brain as stars and my neurons firing, and, like, when they line up perfectly, they create something that is interesting, and, like, new, and creative.
AMANDA: Amazing.
JULIA: And I think that's kind of how I feel about it.
AMANDA: That's so cool.
JULIA: Now, Amanda, before we wrap up, we talked about all of these Muses. We talked about how sometimes their roles can change, how to— Urania and the Christian poetry thing, but what would a modern muse look like? If we were going to add a couple more muses or give new muses—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —a— a role in the pantheon, what would they look like and what do you think their specific art domain would be? Now, I came up with a couple, but do you want to hear one to kind of get you inspired?
AMANDA: 100%.
JULIA: Amanda, may I introduce to you the muse of fanfiction? Aothrea.
AMANDA: Oh, Julia. Oh, that's good. Anyone doesn't know, Archive of Our Own or A and then three O's is the— the library-funded and created site of fanfiction. Absolutely stunning. I love that so much.
JULIA: Great. Great. Let's— we can brainstorm a couple together. I have one for the muse of influencers and also the muse of podcasters.
AMANDA: Oh, that's good.
JULIA: But what is another like modern. quote-unquote, "art or creative" thing that you think there should be a muse for?
AMANDA: I think, like, self-expression through a social media post is one. I think there are really transcendent moments where people, you know, post, whether, you know, it's like video, photo, you know, text, a collage of all three, where you really like get a sense. It's like a modern diary entry. It's like seeing, you know, through someone's POV, and I— I love that idea of like, you know— I don't know. A— get ready with me or something that truly feels like you are hanging out with somebody in their room.
JULIA: Yes, I like that. I think that's really interesting. Let's think of what the name of that goddess would be. Something about like a feed, perhaps. You know, like scrolling through your feed.
AMANDA: Yeah, a story.
JULIA: My— my brain went Astoria. I'm like, "That's a place, Julia. You don't— that— that doesn't work."
AMANDA: Something with the front-facing camera. Maybe it's Vloggaria. There you go. With a V-L-O-G, like the Youtubers before me, yes.
JULIA: I like that a lot. I also— so I have the muse of influencers, which I have as Sponsoreme.
AMANDA: Ah, there it is. I like it.
JULIA: That's— that's a good one. What's another one that you think is— is kind of fun for a muse to be in the modern era?
AMANDA: Honestly, Julia, the thing that came to mind for me, it feels like an art and a science that I don't have a graduate degree in, is getting like Bluetooth and my accessories to talk to each other.
JULIA: Okay, okay.
AMANDA: And so I think the Internet of Things is— is kind of bullshit, but just something about Bluetooth where— like if you can just get my Bluetooth devices to work and all of my things to talk to each other, maybe something about the Cloud would— would really— would really help me.
JULIA: How about something like Sync— Syncephone.
AMANDA: That's good. To synchronize, yeah, all of our— all of our data. Good. Good, good, good.
JULIA: And then I'll— I'll finish out with one last one, which is the muse of podcasters, very relevant to us, which is Aressessia.
AMANDA: I love her. Thank you for our community open standard RSS. You— you make our living possible.
JULIA: Yes, you— you really do. And listeners, I hope that you are feeling somewhat divinely inspired after listening to this episode about the Muses. And— and when you do feel divinely inspired, I hope that you stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
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