Episode 375: Ra
/Welcome back to our Ancient Egyptian series, where we’re starting our deity focused episodes with Ra - the sun, the creator, the god king himself. We talk underworld outfit choices, god-aging, and a slamming Poetry Corner.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of colonialism, ageism, death, blood, animal attacks/bites, poisoning, bodily fluids, and political violence.
Housekeeping
- TOUR: Get tickets for our Rolling Bones Tour!
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends the game Islanders.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at https://spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out Join the Party!
Sponsors
- Opera Colorado is putting on a never-before-seen production of The Flying Dutchman. Get 20% off tickets with no handling fees using promo code SPIRITS at operacolorado.org
- Wildgrain is the first bake-from-frozen box for artisanal bread. For a limited time, you can get $30 off the first box - PLUS free Croissants in every box - when you go to Wildgrain.com/Spirits to start your subscription.
- Blueland creates everyday eco-friendly cleaning productions that save you money and space, without any plastic waste. Get 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com/spirits.
Find Us Online
- Website & Transcripts: https://spiritspodcast.com
- Patreon: https://patreon.com/spiritspodcast
- Merch: https://spiritspodcast.com/merch
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/spiritspodcast
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/spiritspodcast
- Tumblr: https://spiritspodcast.tumblr.com
- Goodreads: https://goodreads.com/group/show/205387
Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: https://multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And Amanda, welcome back to our Egyptian mythology series.
AMANDA: Have we landed on a name, Julia? I know we got some submissions.
JULIA: Yeah. I'm still trying to solidify the name for this, and we have gotten some great suggestions. JWX on Discord suggested you can do [00:56] which I thought was very fun.
AMANDA: Good.
JULIA: Also, Canopic Canon, both very fun. Decibel suggested talking in Memphis, which is really cute.
AMANDA: Cute.
JULIA: As well as the Great Pyra-myth.
AMANDA: Okay. I like that. That's fun to say.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. On Twitter, Eldritchhistory suggested Egyptian Depictions, which goes with the rhyming theme—
AMANDA: Uh-huh.
JULIA: —that I very much enjoy. And then Witchseason on Twitter suggested Talk like an Egyptian, also very fun, kind of like Walk Like an Egyptian like the song.
AMANDA: Yeah. That's pretty good.
JULIA: And then I also got this message from some guy named Eric Silver—
AMANDA: Oh, who's that?
JULIA: —who suggested the Nile isn't just a river in Egypt, it's what we've been doing by keeping an Egyptian mythology series from you on Spirits Podcast.
AMANDA: It's pretty good, Julia. I might be biased, but I think that's my favorite so far.
JULIA: I will say it is definitely a callback to the original Greek mythology series and—
AMANDA: Yeah
JULIA: —how long of a name that was. So—
AMANDA: I like it. I like it.
JULIA: Yeah. Those are our options. Let us know which of these you liked, since we got plenty to go in the series, and we still have time to kind of solidify what it's going to be called.
AMANDA: The Nile isn't just a river in Egypt is where my vote is going.
JULIA: Okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool.
AMANDA: But Julia, who are we here to talk about as we wade into this river? What is the —what is the statue that we're coming across?
JULIA: That is a great question, Amanda. Last episode, we kind of had our primer in Egyptian mythology and sort of the history of the religious movements that make up our understanding of ancient Egypt and the greater cosmology of it. And we talked briefly about how the universe was created, according to the ancient Egyptians. And you'll remember that I mentioned that there was a Creator God, but I didn't really specify a lot about them. Now, researcher Sally provided a really interesting quote to kind of get us in the mindset that we're going to need for this episode, if you'll allow me.
AMANDA: Oh. Please.
JULIA: "Understanding ancient Egyptian thought on creation— or indeed, reconstructing Egyptian myth overall is like trying to piece together a jigsaw puzzle when the majority of the pieces are missing, and someone has thrown away the box." That is a quote from the Egyptologist and author, Gary J. Shaw. And it really does kind of reflect this sort of, like, slippery-ness that happens when studying Egyptian mythology, because as we talked about in the last episode, as time change and different people came into power, things would change or be omitted, or erased, or added to, right? Which, of course, is true of a lot of different mythologies, but it's particularly highlighted in the Egyptian creator. So to get us started about talking about the Creator, we're going to focus specifically on Ra.
AMANDA: Okay. A name that I definitely have heard and associate with Egyptian mythology. Good start.
JULIA: So you're probably wondering, why Ra? Who is Ra? Ra is the sun god. He is the source of light, energy, and life. And he was said to have first ruled on Earth and then on heaven. As you can remember from our last episode, there are these different periods of times for the Egyptians where there are like— there were gods, there were gods and humans that were living together. And then there was like the now times for the ancient Egyptians where the gods have left Earth, but occasionally come back down. Ra, as a king of the gods, is also kind of tied into the theology of kingship in ancient Egypt. So it's not entirely surprising that his portrayal kind of depends on the king at the time, and the religious leadership, and how they were being viewed. So in a time of, let's say, ineffectual kings, Ra might appear as a sort of aging king who is unable to prevent treachery and rebellion amongst his subjects. Sometimes he's shown as a remote authority figure who, like, does not concern himself with the rule of his subjects. But if, let's say, a king was well loved, then Ra would be more positively viewed during that time period.
AMANDA: That makes sense to me.
JULIA: Of course. You know, like if this guy is the embodiment of kings, and you don't like your king, he's not going to look that great.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: If you were looking at, let's say, hieroglyphics or any surviving art from ancient Egypt, spotting Ra is always, like, pretty easy, because he is both a falcon god. Usually, he's either full falcon or he's human man with falcon head, which is my personal favorite. And he's also—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —almost exclusively depicted with a sun disc floating over or attached to his head.
AMANDA: Helpfully denotes him as important guy.
JULIA: So this sun disc is also not just important, because it is a, like, representation of the sun, but the sun disc is also referred to as the eye of Ra, and it functions as an extension of Ra's power.
AMANDA: Oh, cool.
JULIA: So it's not only just like, this is his power, but it's also sometimes a independent goddess who is the feminine counterpart for Ra.
AMANDA: Oh, cool. And do we know if it was sort of like associated with him over and over again in depictions and imagery, and so therefore, gain association or is it like cosmologically, mythologically tied to Ra?
JULIA: Cosmologically and mythologically tied to Ra.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: And therefore reflected in art.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: Yeah. So in a lot of stories, the eye of Ra is basically this power that is sent to deal violently with Ra's enemies, and the ancient Egyptians referred to the sun as the solar eye of Ra.
AMANDA: Very cool. And also low-key to me now growing up sort of, you know, a post-like surveillance state age, little creepy to have god's eye—
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: —watching you at all times during the day.
JULIA: As long as you are out in the sun, Ra can kind of see what's going on, which is interesting. Yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah. I mean, maybe comforting if you're feeling positively toward your, you know, divine authority figure, but I'm just sharing where I'm at.
JULIA: Yeah, but if he's like an ineffectual king, then you're like, "What's this guy doing?"
AMANDA: Spending all day watching me.
JULIA: A couple more things about Ra’s appearance, a lot of times he is portrayed with wings. And then sometimes the eye of Ra, the sun that's floating around his head actually has a cobra surrounding it, which I think is a really cool image.
AMANDA: Whoa. Even cooler to throw a snake in there.
JULIA: Exactly. He's also associated with a few other animals besides the falcon. When he's in the underworld, he's sometimes seen with a ram's head, which we'll talk a little bit about. Like, it's not that he's like, you know, the falcon or the ram, but rather like the ram is a special outfit for a special occasion, like he's going to the underworld outfit.
AMANDA: Great. Okay, it makes complete sense.
JULIA: What would your going to the underworld outfit be, Amanda?
AMANDA: I guess I don't know a lot about the Egyptian underworld right now. I do know that a river is involved, so I think something that could swim would be really helpful.
JULIA: I feel like a— you ever see those dresses and you're like, "That dress looks wet."?
AMANDA: Yes. Yes.
JULIA: I want like a full ball gown style wet-looking dress. It's like all black, that would be my underworld outfit.
AMANDA: Yeah. Like a real—a real like Met Galam Alexander McQueen vibe.
JULIA: Hell yeah. Exactly. There's like leather straps and there doesn't need to be, but thank you, Alex.
AMANDA: Like sexy scuba.
JULIA: Sexy scuba. Yeah. Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. No notes, no notes.
AMANDA: Scuba but make it fashion, that's— that's what I'm going for.
JULIA: Just even wetter than a scuba suit, honestly.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Because those are usually matte black. You know, I want it to look slippery.
AMANDA: Exactly. Like if you try to compliment me, it would bounce off, hit you in the forehead, don't talk to me.
JULIA: So Ra, as a very important god, he's usually combined with many other deities over the years and so can transform into various other animals. We have the ram, like I just mentioned, the beetle or the Scarab, phoenix, bull, cat, lion heron, just to name a few.
AMANDA: That's a lot of outfits, Julia.
JULIA: But it's— it's a lot of outfits, but it's most often the falcon, followed by his ram underworld form. And you'll often see him in art again with a scepter and an ankh, which most people would recognize an ankh, but if you've never heard of an ankh before, it's this kind of like teardrop-shaped hoop with a cross directly below it. And it's extremely important in ancient Egypt representing this kind of cycle of physical life, eternal life, death, reincarnation. As a result, it's also a very important symbol specifically for Ra, because unlike a lot of other gods in various mythologies, Ra ages over time, and also—
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: —goes through a lifecycle every single day. And that'll make more sense as we talk more about him.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: Now that we kind of have an image of who Ra is, let's start with Ra and the creation, because Ra is, of course, the creator in some of the Egyptian creation stories, but not all of them. Scholar Geraldine Pinch explains this as a different period and in various theological centers. A number of deities could be identified with the creator who emerged from the primeval waters. These creator deities include the gods, Atum, Ra, Shu, Fatah, Khnum, and Amun-Ra, and the goddesses, Neith, Hathor, and Isis. So important stages in the creation process for the establishment of Maat, which we'll talk a little bit more in a moment. The division of beings into male and female and the separation of Earth and sky. So many, many of these stories have many different creators, but Ra, especially in these later stories, solidifies himself as this kind of like main creator character. So in those stories where Ra is this main creator character, Ra is envisioned as coming into being upon a mound or a lotus flower rising from the waters in the form of a child, or a heron, a falcon, a scarab beetle, or another type of creature.
AMANDA: Wow. But really, really little to signify that it's new.
JULIA: Yes, exactly. A little, little one. But it's very clear from that, that Ra kind of subsumed a few of the other gods that might have been considered the creator in earlier iterations. And we'll talk a little bit more about that later, but in the meantime, let's talk about where Ra came from both in the historical sense and also the mythic sense.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: So we know that Ra's cult first formed in the city that the Greeks would eventually call Heliopolis.
AMANDA: Julia, that's sun city. I know enough ancient Greek to tell you that.
JULIA: I know, I know. That's what we know. But the ancient Egyptians referred to that city as Iunu. So starting in— and this date just blows my mind a little bit, starting in the 26th century BCE, all the way to the Roman period, all rulers of Egypt called themselves the Son of Ra.
AMANDA: Wow. That is like an incomprehensibly long period of time.
JULIA: Blows my mind every single time. So we talked about in the last episode, the different texts, like the— the funerary text, and the pyramid texts and stuff like that. Ra is featured in all of those, or at least mentioned in all of those. And that's just highlights how long he has been such an important role in ancient Egyptian society.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: By the fifth century BCE, Ra had become essentially Egypt's state god, and was recognized as the head of the Pantheon. And while his cult and religious center was in Heliopolis, Ra was worshipped all throughout Egypt at that point. Now, this becomes interesting because this is where history and myth kind of merge together. So in terms of Ra's mythic history, Ra came into power in the time where there was no separation between the gods and people as we talked about before. And during this period of time, the gods and mortals kind of existed on Earth together, and gods directly ruled mortals.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Now during the reign of Ra, he cared for his creation, basically. He cared for the world, he cared for humans in person. And the creation of humanity isn't like a huge story in Egyptian mythology, but we do see references in the text that we have to Ra, forming, quote, "people from the tears of my eye," which is a throwback to the eye of Ra, which we mentioned earlier.
AMANDA: Hmm. Yeah.
JULIA: Now in some stories, they say that Ra cries because he misses his mother, and these are tears of loneliness that produce people for him to care about. And then there's also this idea that he's eventually reunited with his mother and cries tears of joy, which produces the other deities. So Ra is essentially—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —the parent figure for a lot of the other gods when he is the creator character.
AMANDA: Right on.
JULIA: So as such, Ra becomes the first king as well as the creator of the world, and because Ra is the King of kings, he is the divine head of the Pantheon, everything should be in harmony, as he's kind of in rule. Because, again, these gods are directly involved in human affairs. But Ra faces two challenges during his reign, and we're going to touch on a couple of stories that take place during Ra's reign. But the problems that he faced were he kept growing older and older, which is very interesting.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: And like not something that we often see in mythology. We don't see the aging of gods. We sometimes see like this god was a baby who could do full-ass adult stuff.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And then all of a sudden, they were an adult, right?
AMANDA: Right. Or their life has ended prematurely like in the Norse cycle, but not because of just kind of natural aging.
JULIA: Yes. We don't often see natural aging. Though, I imagine, you know, with Ra, it is not the kind of timeline of a normal human life, but you do still see the signs of aging with Ra, and that's really, really interesting, in my opinion.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Also, not only was he getting older and older, but there were these plots and rebellions against his authority, which we're going to talk about, like I said, in the second half of this episode. But Amanda, with that in mind, let's talk about Ra and his descendants and his relations, just as soon as we get back from our refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
[theme]
AMANDA: Hey, everybody, it's Amanda, and welcome to the refill. We would love to thank first and foremost everybody who has bought tickets so far to the Rolling Bones Tour. If you live in or around, or honestly have some excuse to visit Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, or Washington, DC, we need to see you. If you don't live in those cities and you're jealous, and you wish we would come to yours, tell your friends in and around those cities to come to the tour and tell us with their attendance that you want us to do more of this. Okay? This is gonna go well for us to do more and we are so, so excited. That's the last week of March, and you can get your tickets now or text your friends who live in those cities at the link spiritspodcast.com/live. Thanks as well to our newest patrons, Mari, James, Jeremiah, Réka, Brian. Our supporting producer-level patrons, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Arianna, Ginger Spurs Boi, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Nathan, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, and Scott. And our legend-level patrons, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. If you'd like to join these ranks, get access to the hundreds of bonus posts, I'm not kidding, that we have posted over the years, and know that you are helping make this podcast, which hopefully has a special place in your heart and your routine, our reality, go to patreon.com/spiritspodcast. Y'all, I have been sucked into a new game recently that I have been loving. It is called Islanders, I picked it up during the, I think, Black Friday sale on Nintendo Switch, and then promptly bought it on Steam as well, because it also works on PC. It's so good. There— it's so good. You essentially are building a island. There is like a sandbox mode where you can just kind of make whatever— for decorating an island in a fun way, and also a high score mode, where like— not to brag, but I'm— I'm like number 364, I think, worldwide. I have been putting so much time into this game. It is really entertaining if you like the sort of infrastructure and, you know, world-building element of like Animal Crossing or Stardew Valley. And like me, you don't want any conflict in the video games. I am laughing because I'm— I'm having so much fun. I love it so much. Link in the description, but check out Islanders on Switch or Steam. So much going on here at Multitude, and if you have not yet checked out Join the Party, what are you doing? This is an actual play podcast with tangible worlds, genre-pushing storytelling, and collaborators who make each other laugh every week, including me, and Julia, and my husband, and also Brandon. It's really great. If you have no experience with tabletop RPGs, with Dungeons and Dragons and stuff like that, and you're like, "Hmm, it seems like fun, but not for me." This is for you. We made Join the Party specifically to get new players into the game and using D&D as a way to tell stories, nothing more and nothing less. It is so much fun. I love our characters. I love our game. We are playing plant and bug people who are pirates. I play a real himbo of a butterfly prince. It is so much fun. Come on over and check out Join the Party so that you are all, you know, in the know and you are as excited to see us on the Rolling Bones Tour as the double feature that we are going to be. Alright? Check out Join the Party in your podcast app or go to jointhepartypod.com. We are sponsored this week by Opera Colorado. I'm so excited to tell you about the production they are putting on next, which is a never-before-seen production of The Flying Dutchman, which tells the story of a cursed captain who comes to land once every seven years, searching for a love to break his curse. Can you think of anything more Spirits? No. Me, neither. It is so much fun. They have such cool stuff on the website, like a beautiful art for the production and all kinds of behind-the-scenes information about how the show came to be. And they reached out and they were like, "Hey, do you think there are any conspirators in or around Denver who would like to see this production?" And we said, "Hell yes, there are." So if you are in or near Denver, if you know somebody there if you want to go visit, you should check out, between February 24th and March 3rd at the Ellie Caulkins Opera House, The Flying Dutchman. They were also kind enough to put together a discount for you, conspirators, so you can save 20% on your tickets with no handling fees by using promo code Spirits at operacolorado.org. I am so excited and jealous of everybody who is going to be able to go buy tickets and see the show. I wish I can make it up to Denver in time. Go to operacolorado.org and get your tickets now to The Flying Dutchman and save 20% with no handling fees using promo code Spirits. Now, folks, one of my chores growing up was cleaning toilets in my house, and looking back, you know, it— it wasn't the worst thing in the world. I'm glad I learned how to do it. Sure how to do it a lot with sick people in the house. But I wish that back then I had the Blueland toilet tablets. These are proven to work on a range of toilet stains, including rust, mineral deposits, limescale, and hard water. The stuff that, like, isn't your fault and can totally build up depending on your plumbing or if you're in a rental, whatever it might be. I have been using these and I really, really love them. They come in such, actually, a stylish tin that I like leave it out in the bathroom on, you know, proper display. And I love that Blueland uses no single-use plastic and any component of their product, from bottles, tablets, and wrappers to shipping. In fact, their tablet packaging is fully compostable, so you just toss it in the compost. It's amazing. Blueland also has a special offer for listeners. Right now, you can get 15% off your first order by going to blueland.com/spirits. You won't want to miss this, folks. blueland.com/spirits for 15% off. That's blueland.com/spirits to get 15% off. And finally, folks, we are sponsored this week by Wildgrain. Now, Wildgrain is an incredible way to have fresh baked-from-frozen sourdough breads, pastas, artisanal pastries like croissants. They are so helpful to have in the freezer, because if you have unexpected company or you wake up one morning and you're like, "Oh, man, I really want something like special for breakfast or dinner today, and I don't want to go out." Or like me, maybe you've just gotten lots of snow here in New York City, and you want to have a fun sort of like snow day work-from-home breakfast. I'm totally popping in some Wildgrain croissants this morning. Every item they make bakes from frozen and 25 minutes or less with no thawing required. So you get home, you're like, "Oh, shit. Like I got to make dinner, or I got to make breakfast, or I have company coming over." You can just pull it from the freezer, pop in the oven, ready to go. You can also now fully customize your Wildgrain box, so you can choose any combination of bread, pastas, and pastries that you want. For a limited time, you can get $30 off your first box plus free croissants in every box when you go to wildgrain.com/spirits to start your subscription. That's right, free croissants in every box and $30 off your first box when you go to wildgrain.com/spirits. That's wildgrain.com/spirits or use promo code Spirits at checkout. And now, back to the show.
[theme]
JULIA: So Amanda, we are back, and for this episode, since Ra is the sun god, I wanted a cocktail that kind of embodied that aspect of him, so I present you with the sun cocktail, which is a white rum cocktail that seems simple, but has some hidden depths to it, some hanging brightness, I guess you could say. It's got lemon juice, add some brightness to it.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Honey syrup, also very important for the Egyptians in general. A couple of dashes of bitters, and a surprise dash of Tabasco.
AMANDA: I was wondering what that complex little note on the— on the sipping was. Good job, Julia.
JULIA: I really like Tabasco as kind of like a— just like a hit of it, you know? Because you get that spice, you get like a little tang of that vinegar, and with the honey syrup, it doesn't feel like overly sour or overly vinegary, you know? So—
AMANDA: I have been so hot honey pilled, I— I live in like the nexus of the neighborhood in Brooklyn that originated hot honey, and it— it is so good and I have it all the time. I had it on a salad yesterday at a restaurant, like a radicchio and like watermelon radish salad. It was— it was like, "Sign me up, man." So this very much hit that for me.
JULIA: With the recipe, and again, you can get the recipes if you sign up for our Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast.
AMANDA: And also— oh, Julia, 374 other alcoholic and nonalcoholic recipes?
JULIA: Yeah, that's true.
AMANDA: Damn, dude.
JULIA: But for this one, I— I recommend doing a, like, fortified honey syrup. A 3:1 ratio instead of a 1:1 ratio, which is typically how you would do a honey or simple syrup. And while I wouldn't recommend spending all that money on hot honey, because hot honey, a little expensive. I'm not gonna lie.
AMANDA: It is quite expensive, yeah.
JULIA: The Tabasco dash adds that hot, heavy element without having to buy and then use hot honey for your simple syrup.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. No, you— you can just— you can do nature's hot honey, which is combining honey and tabasco sauce.
JULIA: Which is a dash of Tabasco sauce on any form of honey. You gotta be thrifty sometimes.
AMANDA: Would you say that Ra was a thrifty bitch, or you think Ra has like all the resources of the world at his disposal?
JULIA: You know what? I— I don't think Ra was a thrifty bitch, unless the king at the current time was a thrifty bitch and then Ra was a thrifty bitch. You know what I mean?
AMANDA: Oh, and everyone's like, "Ra's really raising taxes but not improving our sewers, and that's not cool."
JULIA: Weird. Weird how that is?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Alright. So as I mentioned before, Ra was said to have given birth to a lot of the other gods and goddesses, but not all of them. So I'm going to talk about his relationships with other gods that he didn't give birth to at first, and then we'll kind of handle his offspring. It might not be in that exact order, but you'll— you'll see what I— what I kind of did and folded in here, right? Let's handle Atum first, because this one's kind of the most confusing out of all of them, because Ra and Atum were often combined together because they have very similar attributes and characteristics. The way that researcher Sally described it was Atum and Ra aren't exactly the same deity, but they also aren't exactly not the same deity.
AMANDA: Okay. Okay.
JULIA: If that makes sense.
AMANDA: I'm picking up what she's putting down. Yeah.
JULIA: So Atum is one of the creators from the creation stories, turned the world from chaos into order. Atum then becomes consumed by Ra. Basically, they were two separate gods worshipped in separate cities, but Ra's influence and cult then spread, so they were combined into a single god. So that's, like, the historic reason behind it.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: But then mythology has to make sense of the history, so Atum becomes one of the aspects of Ra when he is in the underworld at night. And because, like I mentioned before, Ra goes through, basically, what is a life cycle every single day. Every day, he is born, he lives, he dies, and he's reborn the next day. And as such, different aspects of him rule over different parts of the day. Does that make sense?
AMANDA: That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we— we hear all the time about, you know, gods going through many year life cycles, or through different cycles throughout the course of the year, like Persephone. But that's a— that's a very, very cool twist. It reminds me of, you know, some of the sun orbital myths that we have in stories that we've talked about over the years.
JULIA: Yes. So let me get into the details, because I think the details are really interesting, and also gives us more examples of gods that were like, "This one was kind of like Ra, and so now it's part of Ra." You know what I mean?
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: In the morning, he is the rising sun, and is reborn, and resurrected. He is known as Khepri in this form, meaning come into existence and this is represented by the scarab. Again, we're also seeing all of his different outfits now as he takes these different forms throughout the life cycle and throughout the day.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: So at midday, Ra travels across the sky in his boat from east to west. The boat is known as Mandjet, which is the boat of millions of years.
AMANDA: Very cool.
JULIA: Often other gods accompany him on his voyages across the sky. Most notably is Maat, who you might remember from previous episodes that we've done about Egyptian mythology. Now, Ra, as the god of kings, and therefore of order, has this kind of very special connection to Maat, who represents truth, justice, order, balance, the cosmic law.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Maat was said to be Ra's favorite daughter, and it was upheld that as sons and of children of Ra, Egyptian rulers were expected to be champions of Maat, and would be judged in depth on how well they supported her and what she represents.
AMANDA: Makes total sense.
JULIA: Makes total sense. You know, if you have a favorite daughter, obviously, you'd want to work in tandem with that. You know, like—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —I love in— just like fiction in general, where it's like very good father-daughter relationships, where they're like, "We're working together to like fight crime or something." I'm like, "Yeah."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: My fave.
AMANDA: It's a— it's a really good trope. And of course, all the other, you know, the, like sidekick to the detective or whatever, needs to be nice.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That is the kind of mid-day voyage that Ra has, and he maintains the— the name Ra during that kind of mid-day period. But then finally, we get to the setting sun at night, where Ra passes on his ship through the underworld. Now, this is where he is known as Atum—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —and this is where he takes the form of the ram. I— I really like this imagery, too. I— I don't know what it is about the ram and the underworld that, like, makes sense to me, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: But it just seems like logical, like if you were like— and then what shape do you think Ra takes in the underworld? I'd be like, "Well, obviously, it would be like some kind of ram, or ox, or something."
AMANDA: Interesting. I don't— that doesn't make as much intuitive sense to me, but you are the expert here.
JULIA: It might just be a vibes thing.
AMANDA: It is— it is quite vibey. And like a ram has like put on its football pads for the battle. You know what I mean?
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: The ram has some equipment up there. The ram has put on their, like, shit-kicking boots to go to the— to go to the, you know, the club. You know what I mean? That feels like more dressed up, and protected, and, like, ready for a journey than like your everyday goat or whatever.
JULIA: I just pictured a ram, like, entering a mosh pit with steel-toed boots and you're like, "Too much."
AMANDA: Poor Doc Martens. Yeah.
JULIA: "Too much."
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Come on, ram. Come on.
JULIA: Come on.
AMANDA: You got one of those on your head. You don't have to bring it.
JULIA: You don't have to go so hard. Come on.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: So the only other, like, important goddess to note with Ra is Neith. It's very funny, it's spelled like Keith but with an N instead of a K.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Which I really like. I'm just like, "I— Keith, that's great." So Neith is the mother of Ra, and therefore plays a key role in the creation myth where Ra is the creator. So in this version, Neith is the goddess of creation and weaving, and it said that every day she re-weaves the world on her loom, which is a beautiful image.
AMANDA: Whoa.
JULIA: I love that so much.
AMANDA: That's amazing.
JULIA: And especially when you consider the fact that ancient Egypt believes that, like, you know, the world was created from bringing order from chaos, right?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And what is weaving if not taking a bunch of different pieces that are chaotic and create nothing, and creating something out of that?
AMANDA: And to see the incredible, like, craft and math, and planning of tapestry or a woven garment. Absolutely stunning.
JULIA: Yeah. Anyone who weaves, anyone who crochets, anyone who knits, I'm so impressed by you. That's so cool.
AMANDA: I am so impressed by you.
JULIA: I love that.
AMANDA: That's amazing.
JULIA: So Neith was said to be the one that brought forth Nun who we talked about—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —in the previous episode, the— the chaos from the primeval waters. And from that, Ra was born from that mound or the lotus flower that bloomed there. And as we mentioned before, Ra was the parent to many, if not, all of the gods. So Ra's children, for example, Shu and Tefnut were coupled up and then gave birth to all of the other gods. So it's basically like wove the tapestry, pulled Nun from the waters of chaos. Ra was born from those waters. Ra cried his tears and created the gods.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And also humans. And then from two of his children, Shu and Tefnut, all the other gods were born.
AMANDA: Makes sense. You gotta like— you gotta answer the question of sort of where— you know, where the parents of the parents came from, and this feels like— saying, like, "Yeah, there was a great weaver who made enough Nun that we could get the creator. Makes total sense to me.
JULIA: Yes. And it's another example, too, there's very often in a lot of different mythologies, across the world, this idea of this kind of, like, virgin mother, for lack of a better phrase that, like, created something out of nothing, and gave birth to the world as we know it. And I— I really liked that for Neith. She's very cool.
AMANDA: Do we know what form she takes?
JULIA: Yeah. She mostly just has a— a human form, though, she is associated with a couple of different animals as well. Mainly, she is associated with crocodiles.
AMANDA: Right on. That feels like a pretty fitting sort of primeval mother.
JULIA: Yeah. And part of it is because she's a mother to a couple of other gods, including the god Sobek, who is the crocodile god.
AMANDA: Right on.
JULIA: So now that we kind of know where Ra came from, what he represents, let's try to get a better picture of him by telling a couple of stories about him. So we'll start with the story of the true name of Ra.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: We know, from what we just talked about, that Ra had many forms, and was known by many names, but none of those was his true name, Amanda.
AMANDA: Alright. We've been over this, Julia. True names, true power.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. So it was said that his true name was concealed in his stomach so that no hostile force could use it against him, because as we know, names have power.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Only one deity dared to challenge Ra's authority, and that was the clever goddess, Isis.
AMANDA: Isis. Okay.
JULIA: Now, it was said that Isis knew everything on heaven and Earth, everything, except for the true name of Ra.
AMANDA: Julia, to be fair, that would also drive me absolutely nuts.
JULIA: Wouldn't it?
AMANDA: That's like when your phone shows you that you have an unread notification, but you don't. And you're like, "I promise, I read all my messages. I promise, I cleared the notification." I restarted the phone, I deleted the app, and yet, that one little unread icon is fucking haunting me. I very much empathize with Isis at this moment.
JULIA: I totally get it. I just want to be inbox zero constantly.
AMANDA: Yes. Or when someone posts a screenshot and they have, like, 400 unread emails, I'm like, "Girl."
JULIA: When it gets to the thousands too, I'm like, "Oh, my God. I'm having a panic attack over my choices."
AMANDA: That— that read shouldn't be that long.
JULIA: No.
AMANDA: Yup. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So Isis, she needed to know.
AMANDA: I get it, girl.
JULIA: And as we mentioned, Ra aged, he was not immortal, and was starting to show signs of old age. In particular, in the story relevant to us is he had a drooping mouth, and he tended to drool at this advanced age. So what Isis did was she took some of Ra’s saliva that she found on the ground, she mixed it with the Earth, and she created a snake, which then came to life.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Now, she then left the snake at a crossroads where she knew Ra passed every day. And as Ra walked there the next day, he was bitten by Isis' snake, and the poison that the snake put into his body burned through his blood like fire.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: He was in terrible pain, intense pain, could barely speak, but he tells his children what has happened, that he's been stung by this unknown creature. It was something that was not created by him, which is saying something, because again, this is the creator god.
AMANDA: It all comes from him, yeah.
JULIA: So Isis puts on this masterclass at pretending to be shocked, and she's like, "Oh, father, I will destroy the attacker with my powerful, powerful magic, but I can only do that if you give me your true name."
AMANDA: Oh, damn. This— this con goes even deeper than I expected. I thought you were gonna say he, you know, threw up or— or, you know, made himself kind of, like, try to purge out the poison, and the name came along with it.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. That would— that would also be a great version of the story. I like it a lot, but Isis is like, "No, no, no."
AMANDA: Yeah. No, it's even more conniving.
JULIA: She's— she's like, "You're gonna be indebted to me, old man, for a thing that I did to you."
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: So Ra tells her all of the names he's known as. He's— he says, "Oh, I'm Khepri at dawn. I'm Ra at noon. I'm Atum at night." But Isis is like, "Yeah, no, I know all of those. What's your real name?" And Ra's like, "Oh, well, I'm poisoned. Guess I'll just die." And he's, like, convinced, he's like, "I'm gonna die, it's fine. Like, I'm just gonna—"
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: "We're just gonna let this happen." And Isis is like, "You're not gonna die. Just, like, tell me your true name and I can solve this problem for you." And so, eventually, he's like, "Okay. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to allow you to search through my body because my true name is within me, and you'll be able to find it." And she's like, "Done. Okay."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And so she does that, she dispels the poison from Ra's body when she discovers the true name. And in exchange for her, quote-unquote, “help”, she demands that Ra will give her yet-to-be-born son, Horus, who we will talk about in a future episode, both of his eyes, both the sun and the moon, which would later be known as Horus' eye.
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: I'm sure we'll talk all about that in a future Isis and/or Horus episode. And that is how Isis found out Ra's true name.
AMANDA: That is so conniving. I kind of love it.
JULIA: We lo— we love a girl boss. We love a manipulative woman fiction.
AMANDA: She is truly gatelike gaskeeping girl bossing—
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: —over here many, many millennia ago. But no, that's— that's so fitting, especially that she used a sort of, like, you know, the byproduct in form of his drool, like his, you know, bodily fluids. Like, she still needs to create something from him that she collects, you know, while sort of taking advantage of a trusted moment or like a caretaking role.
JULIA: You said gatelike gaskeeping.
AMANDA: Oh, really?
JULIA: I don't know if you want to retake that or not, but I fucking love that as a phrase.
AMANDA: Bren, leave it in.
JULIA: Alright. One last story before we wrap up on Ra here, and maybe we have a little treat at the end, who can say?
AMANDA: Ooh. I love a sweet treat with my lunch, Julia. Thank you.
JULIA: It's a little dessert for the episode.
AMANDA: Yay.
JULIA: Alright. So this is another story that takes place when Ra is much older, and this is the story of Sekhmet and the heavenly cow.
AMANDA: Oh, alright. Cow is just something that even I know, you know, have a— a fairly significant role in Egyptian mythology.
JULIA: So Ra has, at this point, reached an old, old age and his mortal subjects have grown tired of his rule, and so they begin to conspire to rebel against him. Again, just conspiring, haven't actually acted out or done anything, or like tried to overthrow Ra or anything like that. But Ra finds out about these, like, you know, mutterings of rebellion underneath people's breath and stuff like that, and so summons his counsel of gods in secret. He calls upon Shu, he calls upon Tefnut, he calls upon Geb, calls upon Nun, all of these gods that were like among the first to be created or were at the creation itself.
AMANDA: His trusted advisors.
JULIA: Exactly, exactly. So he also summons the Eye of Ra, which again is this manifestation of his divine power, who he sends to deal with his enemies. And as we discussed, sometimes this was a personified feminine form of Ra. Sometimes it was also an already existing goddess who would, like, fill in that role.
AMANDA: hmm.
JULIA: So he sits down with his counsel to discuss how best to deal with these treacherous rebels. And Horus, who we just mentioned earlier, suggests that he should send the eye down to make the mortals pay, because with her power, she would be able to smite them and prevent them from taking any actions in order to rebel.
AMANDA: Alright.
JULIA: Like snuff it out before it becomes a problem. Ra is like, "Great idea." And so sends down the eye in the form of the goddess, Hathor, down to Earth to destroy the humans, basically. And Hathor decimates the mortals. Just absolutely destroys them and finds that she enjoys the bloodlust.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: So Hathor is this like beautiful goddess. She is a cow goddess, specifically. She is the kind of like embodiment of beauty, and music, and joy, and sexuality, and maternal care. She's really like the embodiment of ancient Egyptian femininity. And she gets a taste for blood, and she transforms into the vengeful lion-headed goddess Sekhmet, who enjoys wading—
AMANDA: Ah.
JULIA: —in the blood of those that she's killed.
AMANDA: She does, Julia. One of my favorite things about her.
JULIA: So Ra, at first, is like, "Hey, this is great. I'm ruling unopposed again. This is awesome." And then he's, like, watching Sekhmet and he's like, "I might have overreacted somewhat disproportionally."
AMANDA: Very relatable.
JULIA: "I might have lost control of my eye." So Sekhmet is down on Earth, like continuing to dole out her violent revenge. And so he sends messengers to gather the gods to come up with a plan to tame this lioness—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —goddess, right? So the plan that they come up with is to gather up a bunch of red ochre, which is like a red dye, basically. Mix it with barley and make it into beer.
AMANDA: Hmm. Get her drunk.
JULIA: Yes. Well, mixed together, the concoction looks like what is now Sekhmet’s favorite thing, blood.
AMANDA: Got it. Probably wouldn't smell the same, but would probably intrigue her.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. So in total, they make 7,000 jars of this beer blood concoction.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: And Ra is like, "Okay. It seems like she's going to target this town next." So he, during the night, pours all of the beer blood concoction over the fields, and then floods them with this beverage, right?
AMANDA: Got it.
JULIA: So when Sekhmet arrives in the morning, she finds that the fields are already filled with what she thinks is blood and she's like, "Nom, nom, nom. Delicious." And drinks it all.
AMANDA: Hurray.
JULIA: Drunk and sleepy, she decides she's done with her rampage, and so—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —returns to the other gods, leaving mankind alone.
AMANDA: Nice. Well done. Well done, humanity.
JULIA: Well done, humanity. Well done, the gods. But Amanda, this whole ordeal, Ra is just feeling dejected and tired. It's like, "I lost control of like my divine power. My people don't like me anymore. How— I don't know if I want to be king on Earth anymore." And so he decides to leave the earthly world behind and ascend to the heavens.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Since in some stories, the sky had taken the form of a heavenly cow, Ra rode on her back from the Earth to the heavens, and the other gods followed their king, leaving the world of the mortals behind.
AMANDA: Wow. And we are really— like you said last time, it still kind of blows my mind, centering the— the modern period, or contemporary period to the— the end of the storytelling in a post-God world or in a like, hey, like that— that was then and they were on Earth. And now, in modernity, we're sort of on our own figuring it out. It— it really speaks to, like, this feeling that seems to pervade society and generations, and time, and age, that there was something not even easier, but like bigger and more pure or true about the past. And now, with— we have sort of more tools, but also less like wisdom, almost. I feel like—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —that's the— the vibe or the feeling of like, hey, we grew up and childhood was magical, and adulthood is different. It's sort of like on a cosmic scale, the looking back attitude that I'm sensing in so many stories.
JULIA: Yeah. And I think that's a very common throughline for a lot of different cultures. We see movements all the time where it's like, we've gotten too far away from, like, our connection with the Earth and the environment, and we need to be able to return back to that in order to, like, find our real purpose, or find our truth, or whatever. And I think that is like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —a very common thing for humans, in general, to feel. Like, you just pointed out. Like, a lot of times people are like, "Ah, I miss the old days before—" insert thing that they have a problem with here was— has taken over society—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —you know? And in the case of the ancient Egyptians, I think it is very interesting that their relationship with the gods is so close in history, because it gives them something to be like, "We're not so far removed from that." And there's something like rewarding about that almost.
AMANDA: Yeah. I love that. I mean, they have a very long lineage to be connected to.
JULIA: Yes, exactly. We talked about the fact that Ra first started appearing in the 26th century BCE.
AMANDA: Didn't know we count back that far, Julia. I thought we just call that the Bronze Age or whatever.
JULIA: Up until like, you know, the— where the changeover happens from BCE to CE. That is absolutely wild.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: Alright, Amanda. We are going to have our little treat now because research Sally included in this episode a Poetry Corner.
AMANDA: Thank you, Sally.
JULIA: What I have for you today is a translation of a tomb carving that can be found at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and I've got two translations.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: One is quite literal, like as— as literal of a translation as you can get. And another one, which is a modern translation that takes some very creative liberties by a modern poet named Samson Allal.
AMANDA: Cool. Love it.
JULIA: Let's start with the literal translation and then we'll go to Samson Allal's translation, alright?
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: Okay, so here's the literal translation. "Will you proceed, Father Ra, before you have commended me? Will the sky cover you before you have commended me? Commend me to the night and those who are in it, then I will be found among those who honor you, Ra, who worship you in your emergence, who endure from your offerings, who joined the night, who traverse the depths of night through your commendation, Ra. I am your representative, for you have made me lord of life, for whom there is no death. Commend me to the morning hours, then they will spread their ward over me. Commend me to the morning then, it will put its ward around me. I am one suckled in the morning. I am one suckled in the morning hours, who was born in the night and whose life was made in the depths of the night, who sets fear of himself in the racks of back turned horns. Protection is around me from the blood red of your eye, and I am found meeting you with rejoicing."
AMANDA: Oh, my God. That's so beautiful.
JULIA: Isn't that really nice? I love this idea of, like, not only are you going to follow me into the darkness, Ra, but you're also going to suckle me in the morning and I am like with you in both the night of my death and also the morning of my reemergence and my rebirth.
AMANDA: It's amazing.
JULIA: Alright. Now, you want to hear Samson Allal's translation.
AMANDA: I can't imagine it getting more poetic, but yes, please.
JULIA: Again, I just want to stress, a lot of poetic license and creative liberties in this translation of it. So he goes, "Accept me, Ra, before you go, before I go, I pray. Do polychromatic dawn threads coat you, like the tiny coruscating disks sewn into a sequin dress? Bring me to the breast of the night."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "Let me suckle stars, cuddle obsidian cosmos ancestors. They honor you, Ra, like I do. We sing your praises when you rise. We weep whenever you duck under the Earth. Embrace me, like a mother, O, eternal night. Fold me, like a black origami flamingo, forever protected by dark paper, dark praise. Let all be run by your rule, Ra. You know, I'm your right-hand man, right? You made me into a microchip, a code that doesn't die."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "Hand me over to the hours of day and night. Time is my bulletproof vest. I am an ankle-tagged newborn tongue-tied to the nipple of dawn, the teat of dusk. A child of the dark, midnight skies move over my skin, black-limbed angels of unburdened air, ardent guardians keep me close, but I fear the bulls with backward horns. O hula hoop of light, eye of Ra, unremitting rage, you are my—"
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "—24/7 security squad, discover me as your gift."
AMANDA: Wow. That's a journey. I love that.
JULIA: There's so many good lines in there. Truly, I— I love the— the very modern translation of it. It reminds me of the— the Beowulf translation that we've talked about on the show before, where it just starts with, "Bro, come on. Bro"
AMANDA: Yeah. Come on, tell me. I love that we are getting the feeling similar to how it must have been to read that tombstone and think to yourself, "Yes. Like, it's because of Ra, I'm here. It's because of Ra, I'm alive. And, like, Ra, I— I plead. You know, take care of me when I— when I join you in eternal night."
JULIA: I really quickly want to pull up the note that Samson Allal wrote in regards to, like, this translation, just so that people can kind of understand where he was coming from, because it is a very creative translation of the actual text.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: So he says, "It seems to me that the first lyric poems, which can be called lyric poems by modern measurement of the lyric, originated in Egypt. I wanted to re-inaugurate the Egyptian hymn as the original lyric. A compressed insightful song. The Hymn to Ra appeared on the Pharaoh's sarcophagus as a plea and prayer to Ra to guide them into the afterlife. I took the original as a frame and took many liberties in the recreation."
AMANDA: I love that. I'm— I'm glad that he did.
JULIA: Yeah, it's so cool, right, you know? And this is like our— our contemporary. I believe he was born in, like, 1990 and so, like, it's really nice to kind of see—
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: —a translation. We talked about, you know, the fact that we're like, "Oh, this was— you know, Ra has been around since the 26th century BCE. This is someone retelling a story, a prayer to the god thousands and thousands of years later."
AMANDA: Incredible. And the same yearnings exist, the same awe exists, and it's pretty damn incredible that human beings can be finding new ways to express and explore that 4,700 years later.
JULIA: Yeah, I can't do the math. I'm not gonna try. So I hope that, Amanda, you enjoyed this episode, everyone listening enjoyed this episode. I really think it kind of, like, wets the appetite by dropping some hints about, like, who and what we'll be talking about in the future. Kind of introducing a bunch of fun gods that will definitely be getting their own episodes in the future. But I can't wait to show y'all more about the world of ancient Egypt as we continue this series.
AMANDA: Amazing. Well, Julia, thank you. Researcher Sally, thank you. And editor Bren, we so appreciate it. But folks, remember next time you look up at the blood-red disk of the sky—
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: —stay cool.
[theme]