Episode 14: Ghosts of Orlando (with Matt A.)
/Something is in the water. Follow us down a one-lane road through hills and swamps to uncover the mysteries of Cassadaga, Florida. Special guest Matt tells us all about his first-hand experience with this classic Orlando urban legend, plus the historical roots of the modern-day town.
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us on Twitter, like us on Facebook, and review us in iTunes to help new listeners find the show. Plus, check out our Patreon for bonus audio content, behind-the-scenes photos, custom recipe cards, and more. Every bit helps as we get our first season off the ground!
Our music is "Danger Storm" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Transcript
AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 14: Ghosts of Orlando. That's such a good title, Julia. Good job.
JS: Thank you so much.
AM: We are so excited to give a couple of shout outs this week to some folks who've been great with us on Twitter. Mischa of Ars Paradoxica and Bright Sessions team.
JS: We love you, Mischa.
AM: Two great shows. Check them out. Jon Grilz of Small Town Horror, Entwined Podcast, Jes and Mia Rodriguez, The Infamous Sergio, who's Twitter name I love. Everytime, I'm like --
JS: It's so good.
AM: -- Oh, my god, it's The Infamous Sergio, he tweeted us. Jim McDoniel of Our Fair City. McDoniel. Sorry. My Irish creed is not too strong. Holly [Inaudible 0:33], Zeke Gonzalez, Laura Hayes, Ian Cole, Shannon Sawyer, Todd Faulkner of Uncanny County.
JS: Thank you so much, guys. We love hearing from you on Twitter. You should definitely tweet at us. Tell us your thoughts. Tell us your suggestions. Tell us what you want to hear about because we love hearing from you.
AM: We were a little quiet this week because Julia was selflessly helping me move apartments. If you guys doubted at all that we were actually best friends, Julia just passed the best friend test number one of two, which is to help me move. I don't think I've taken you to the airport yet.
JS: No, I don't think so.
AM: But I will at any time. But no, it's all good. Also, so, this episode we recorded several months ago actually soon after we launched the podcast with our friend, Matt, who is such a great guest. He had so many great stories to tell. You can tell he's an actor, right?
JS: Yes.
AM: Because he had like, just great way of speaking.
JS: He did great fully [1:24] work. There was a lot going on there.
AM: Yes. And we are also drinking this – I don't know, dubiously-acquired bottle of super vintage Jack Daniels.
JS: The – we cut the story. But, basically, a guy that was friends with Matt left a bottle of like vintage whiskey at his house. And --
AM: That he got from his grandma's house after she died.
JS: Right. Dude was a dick.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Never spoke to Matt again. And Matt, out of spite --
AM: Kept the granny whiskey.
JS: -- drank the granny whiskey.
AM: Right. We drank it together. It was great. Anyway, the point being, we hit the microphone stand at some point. So, if you hear a little like weird bumping, that's what happened.
JS: If you have a second, please rate and review us on iTunes. It helps us get the word out about the show. and we really appreciate like hearing what you guys think about the show and --
AM: We do.
JS: -- spreading the love.
AM: I know. The more countries we are reviewed in, I feel like our, our – I don't know – our spooky reach is extending around the world.
JS: Spooky reach.
AM: Sure, and, finally, shouting out Alko Hollywood, who ran our first promo on another podcast.
JS: Also, the episode is super good if you haven't listened to it.
AM: Yeah, we really enjoyed it.
JS: It's really creepy, and weird, and amazing. And it's like a pulpy Japanese car body horror movie. And it's – if that's up your alley, go listen to the episode right away because it's amazing.
AM: Yeah. They drink. They watch movies. It's really, really great. I love that there's this whole like drunk cast podcast universe we're a part of now. So, thanks, guys. And, if any of you listeners have a podcast, want to feature us on a podcast, want to recommend us to be featured on other podcasts, you know, you'll just be our favorites. Enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 14: Ghosts of Orlando.
Intro Music
JS: So, today, we have a special guest with us, because clearly I drink more than enough. We invited our bartender friend, Matt.
MA: Hey-yo!.
JS: Matt is going to come and talk to us about a not so much myth or legend, but like a super weird kind of mystical element that comes from his hometown --
MA: Oh, yeah.
JS: -- down in Central Florida. Do you want to start us off, Matt?
MA: Well, for sure. For sure. Thank you for having me.
JS: Of course.
AM: Our pleasure.
MA: Putting up – my pleasure. please.
JS: Thank you for bringing us some special brand newest.
MA: Yeah, absolutely. So, Cassadaga, Florida. Cassadaga, Florida stemming from Cassadaga, New York full circle --
AM: Interesting.
MA: -- where we sit right now.
JS: Yes.
AM: Well, wrong Cassadaga.
JS: In Cassadaga, but in New York.
MA: In New York, guys.
AM: Yeah.
MA: Let's not --
AM: Cassadaga, reminds me of [Inaudible 4:00] Nights, which I hear is a film.
MA: Cassadaga, Florida.
JS: The outpost of the grander --.
MA: So, there's – there's --
AM: Cassadaga, New York.
MA: There's two stories here.
AM: Okay.
MA: There's the story before I did research on Cassadaga, Florida to be prepared.
AM: Great.
MA: I have notes.
AM: The authentic-
MA: I have my notes.
AM: -grassroots story.
MA: Those are my notes.
JS: I like the sound effects. Is that [Inaudible 4:22]?
MA: That's sort of letting you know I have notes.
JS: I feel like they’re big.
AM: We’re already stepping up, man.
MA: Yeah. Listen, I brought it.
JS: The expertise.
MA: I bring – I bring the noise. I bring the fun.
JS: A couple of months into our launch already, but bringing the noise now.
MA: That's okay.
AM: Exactly. [Inaudible 4:33].
MA: Listen --
AM: Let's leave them something to, you know, enjoy.
MA: That's it. Show a little bit of --
AM: A little bit of shoulder.
MA: That's it.
JS: A little skin.
MA: That's it.
JS: All right.
MA: So, there's my story of Cassadaga, which is a 17-year-old driving about an hour and a half out of my town. It is still in Central Florida, but it's a ways away. I'm from like, Orlando, Orlando. And this is a little bit off the beaten path.
AM: Cool.
MA: So, to get into Cassadaga, Florida, you essentially drive down this one-lane road up and down many hills.
AM: High dramatic potential.
MA: Now, you have to understand too. This is Florida.
AM: Right.
MA: There’s no hills in Florida.
AM: Yeah.
MA: Florida is flat and under the sea level.
AM: It's true.
JS: You would think it's all swamps.
MA: So, to drive on hills in this place in general, odd. As you're going – and sometimes you have to pull off because people are trying to leave the town.
AM: Naturally.
MA: So, every now and again – you should typically go during sunlight. That's a good rule. Don't – because, at night, it's a very --
AM: A little bit scary.
MA: -- scary situations.
AM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JS: It's a good rule for any place that's going to be on our show at some point.
AM: They are. Right.
MA: Probably. Probably a tip. That's a good – yeah, yeah. Good preface. So, as you're driving in, you start to lose cellphone reception, which I guess isn't crazy. Some places– you'll you go to the subway, you lose cell phone reception.
AM: You do.
MA: You drive over hills in Florida --
AM: You might get slashed. You know, it's a little bit risky.
MA: The subway slasher. That's a different myth for a different time.
AM: It’s the top of the field. Oh, no. Yeah.
MA: Wait. No. That's fact.
JS: You might – you might not know that three months out now.
MA: No. Yeah. There was a guy --
AM: Who's slashing people.
MA: -- multiple guys, maybe girls, who knows? I've never seen the subway slasher.
AM: Me neither.
JS: We don't want to be sexist about it.
MA: No, exactly.
AM: It might be equal opportunities slashers.
MA: I hope it's a woman. Is that bold? Is that a bold premise there?
JS: That's a bold statement.
MA: Right.
JS: We might not agree with you.
AM: It would really be a plot twist.
MA: No. That would be dope.
AM: It would.
MA: And I hope she's only slashing people that like cat called her.
AM: I love that idea.
JS: Yeah. But I think it's mostly [inaudible 6:32], which sucks.
AM: Headcanon: Accepted.
MA: Yeah. We've qualified the Subway Slasher.
AM: Great.
JS: There we go.
MA: But probably not the case. So --
AM: Losing cell reception as we go into Cassadaga.
MA: So, losing cell reception. And then the car's clock started to get funky and then like wasn't keeping the right time.
JS: This is X File shit right here.
MA: Now, this was also like before like, everybody had like really dope cell phones. Like we still had flip phones. You know what I mean?
AM: Right.
MA: So, all – certain people like cell phone clock stopped working.
AM: Ohhh.
MA: Yeah. One or two still had. But like I personally had Sprint and Sprint in Cassadaga, Florida --
AM: Fucked up?
MA: -- not working so hot. So, you get in, and it's a really small town. And it's almost cute.
AM: Yeah.
MA: It's almost cute. There is this hotel that's super old that you walk through, and it just feels like haunted. Everything there feels haunted --
AM: Awesome.
MA: -- you know? So, all of the stories behind Cassadaga are that it's a spiritualist commune, which is true. A lot of people think it's the third point of the Bermuda Triangle. It's not. I've just found out. But like --
JS: But good rumor.
MA: -- multiple people --
AM: That's like a little lore.
MA: No. Because that was – so, I talked to my sister before I came here to look.
AM: Oh, my god, sources! So much research!
MA: Yeah. Well, no, just so I could be like, "You still live in Orlando. Like what are your thoughts on Cassadaga?"
AM: Right.
MA: And that's one of the first things she said. It's like, "Well, it's the third point of the Bermuda Triangle."
AM: Wow. It is?
MA: It's not.
AM: That's a great like dramatic point though.
MA: Nah. But it is. It's --
JS: Yeah.
MA: It's folklore.
JS: It sounds legit.
AM: Point geometry.
JS: Triangles.
MA: Hey, that was too much for my – for my drunken brain to really, really capacitate.
JS: Over the head.
MA: Yeah. That went well over, and it came back like a boomerang. But --
AM: Nice.
MA: But – so, there's many misconceptions. The other one – now, this one I just – I want to believe. And I haven't really found anything that disproves it.
AM: Yeah.
MA: Some old woman, dramatic pause, who works at the hotel – some old woman who works at the hotel as soon as you come in.
AM: Yeah.
MA: She told us that everybody born in Cassadaga is typically a medium.
AM: Wow.
MA: And, usually, you live your whole life in Cassadaga, and you die in Casablanca.
AM: Right.
JS: Snap.
MA: And they typically cremate, and then dump ashes into Spirit Pond. The Spirit Pond – there's two lakes. And we're going to get back to it. We're going to find the specificity. So --
AM: Because, if people want to recreate the journey --
MA: That's it.
AM: -- they can go and do it.
JS: Yeah.
MA: They can do it themselves.
AM: Find the same old woman or her granddaughter. It's all the same life or death or more, et cetera.
MA: Who knows. Maybe it's the exact same person.
AM: Maybe it is.
MA: It's a very spiritualistic place, reincarnation, who knows? They say that everybody dumps their ashes into Spirit Lake.
AM: Yeah.
MA: Spirit Lake is where you go. It's the resting place. Now, the founder of Cassadaga, Florida, who is George Colby, he is supposedly buried in between these two lakes. Now, there's also a rumor that his body was shipped to New York and is buried in Cassadaga, New York. And then there's other theory that he was cremated and dumped in the Spirit Lake.
AM: I'm, I’m hearing a lot of cool parallels about kind of like concentrating the power. Right. Like keeping, if you're – if being born there imbues you with some special gift.
MA: Well – yeah.
AM: Then, when you're – you know, when you pass, your remains are returned to the, the Earth from whence it came --
MA: Yeah.
AM: -- sort of thing.
JS: See, Amanda thinks of that, I go, "I really hope no one's drinking out of that lake."
MA: Yeah, I don't think it's a source of --
JS: Yeah. I would hope not.
AM: It's not potable water.
MA: I don’t think so.
AM: Yeah.
MA: I hope not. I don't know.
AM: I also hope that. I hope you did not drink any tap water when you were in Cassadaga.
MA: Maybe the other lake – maybe the other lake --
AM: Yes.
MA: -- whose name that I cannot remember.
AM: I'm thinking of like the two – like two ventricles in the heart, you know? Mind of like mixed, anyway.
MA: More or less. George is buried in the middle of this lake.
AM: Yes.
MA: Everybody's spirits --
AM: Within it.
MA: They live there. There's these specific places where the energy – you test it through the rods.
JS: Oh, the, the mining rods.
AM: The water. The mining?
MA: Yes.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yes.
MA: And which have been used for like --
AM: They had – that’s just legit.
MA: -- centuries.
AM: Yes.
MA: It's super old. So, Sonoma --
AM: Yeah.
MA: -- right? Is one of those spots.
AM: Like, like a – like a magnetic pole.
MA: Yes.
JS: Yeah.
MA: Right.
MA: Where it's super – they call them vortexes.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Interesting.
MA: So, Sonoma is one of those places. The Bermuda Triangle is one of those, and one of the strongest ones --
AM: Cassadaga, Florida.
MA: -- is Cassadaga, Florida.
AM: Yay!
JS: Yes!
MA: So, that's where the, the idea of the town comes from as they tested this land.
AM: Oh, shit. And they chose it.
MA: And they chose it.
AM: Yeah.
MA: Oh, yeah. There's a real story that we're going to tell about how Cassadaga came to be.
AM: All right.
MA: But, first, we're going to tell my story.
AM: Right. The lore.
MA: Because that one – right. Exactly.
AM: Yeah.
MA: That one had a little bit more je ne sais quoi, you know?
AM: So, we have the facts, right? Cassadaga is founded --
MA: It is a spiritualistic commune.
AM: It is a spiritualistic commune.
MA: Founded by George.
AM: Founded in a vortex --
MA: Yes.
AM: -- by this guy, George Bill.
MA: George Colby.
JS: Colby.
AM: Colby.
MA: And he, he was chosen.
AM: Lived the life.
MA: Lived the life.
AM: And then was buried in between the lakes.
MA: In between the lakes. He's, he's in Cassadaga.
AM: Cool.
MA: But everybody that would cut – no. We're gonna do that part second.
JS: No. Tell --
MA: We're doing the --
JS: Yeah. Tell us about your time there.
MA: We're going to do my story. So, I'm there.
AM: Yeah. Right. So, we got the facts. And then you visit. You see this woman.
MA: So, I'm at the hotel. The old woman tells us about Spirit – not Spirit Lake, Spirit Pond.
AM: Spirit Pond.
MA: I had to look that up.
JS: It's a pond.
MA: Yeah, I swear she said lake though. So, we go to Spirit pond. Before we go to Spirit Pond – because this is we all get our palms read. Expensive as fuck, first of all.
JS: She's probably going to make all the goddamn money off it though.
AM: It's worrisome.
MA: Like $35 per person.
JS: Damn!
AM: Too much. Too much.
MA: An we wanted to all go together, and they were like, "Nope, separate."
AM: They don't let you do that.
JS: They don’t let you do that.
AM: Yeah.
MA: But that shit was crazy. So, that happened.
AM: Set the mood with some palm reading, nice.
MA: Right. And, so, it's a little bit – it's like dusk. It's getting dark. We're right on the cusp so we were like --
AM: Yeah.
JS: Which we don't want.
MA: So, let's hit Spirit Like to find out about it. Now, the other thing about Cassadaga, one road goes all the way through the entire town.
AM: Cool.
MA: So, you ride on one road for like 10 minutes to get through.
AM: Yeah.
MA: And you pass by every single person's house and every single thing. And, to get Spirit Lake, you have to take that road.
AM: Yeah.
MA: But it's right – it's the first thing as soon as you hop on that road. So, we hopped on that road, we got out. Now, two of the people that we were with were too like even shooked to get out of the car.
AM: Really?
JS: Damn.
MA: But me and my friend were like, fuck, I'm going solve --
AM: Based on reputation?
MA: Yeah.
JS: Based on reputation or just like they were like feeling some vibes going or something?
MA: They – well, reputation. They were – they were shooked from the reading, you know.
JS: Okay. Sure.
AM: Yeah.
MA: And, so, it was a combination. It was getting dark.
AM: Yeah.
MA: And there's a chair. Hold on. I have to find it because it's one of – so, there's this folklore. It goes like, all over. It's called the Devil's --
JS: The Devil's Chair.
AM: Yeah.
MA: The Devil’s Chair.
JS: That's a thing.
MA: The devil's chair is this thing. There's one in London. There's one in Illinois. There's one – they're, they're all over.
AM: Kind of puzzled.
MA: But it's this place where, if you – if you dare to sit there, supposedly, you will talk to the devil.
JS: Wheelchair. Rock formation chair.
MA: No. So, for this one, the one in Cassadaga, Florida, which Google it if you don't believe me, is this bench that's right at the edge of the lake.
AM: I see.
MA: And, if you leave a beer can there, the next day the beer will be gone.
AM: Uh-uh.
MA: But there will – it won't be opened.
JS: The devil's oddly specific.
MA: The can won't be opened.
AM: Oh, the can is empty.
MA: The can is empty but sealed.
AM: Ohhhh.
JS: That's kind of cool.
MA: Multiple --
AM: [Inaudible 13:48].
MA: Multiple people say that that's what happens or --
AM: That's pretty compelling.
MA: -- that it's open but probably that's like a person that drank it.
AM: Right.
JS: Is the devil like, really specific like he'll only drink PBRs or like --
MA: In Florida, maybe. You know, just knowing that it's in --
AM: Yeah. Natty Light.
MA: -- in Florida, it might be– it might be some Natty Boh. It might be some Natty lLight. Who knows.
AM: What's Natty Boh?
MA: Natty Boh is the Maryland like DMV version of Natty Light. I wanted to shout that out for all your DMV viewers, which I'm sure there might be one of. Maybe three. Who knows?
JS: We'll see.
AM: Tweet us.
MA: Like 300.
JS: Tweet us and let us know!
MA: Let's find out. We get out of the car; me and my friend. And I started running towards the lake. This is a young spry. Let me find out about it. And I thought everybody came out with me. And it turns out like, as far as I was, I was essentially alone, you know.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: Oh, no. Never a good thing.
MA: So, I whipped my head back around to see if anybody was by me --
AM: Right.
MA: -- because I swore there was somebody next to me running.
JS: Oh, god.
MA: And I turned my head and, for everything, I put my life on this. I saw this red orb, and it shot past me.
AM: Oh, no!
MA: And I followed it. And it went straight into the lake.
AM: Oh, no.
MA: And I fucking stopped, and I turned around, and I went back to the car. And I said, "It's time --
JS: To go.
MA: -- to fucking go. We don't need to be here anymore.
AM: You got what you came for.
MA: Now --
AM: Wow!
MA: That's just my personal experience. Never told any of these friends about this.
AM: Really?
MA: This is for me and me alone.
JS: [Inaudible 15:22]. I guess it's time to go.
MA: It is. But --
AM: Wow.
MA: Oh, never in my life...
AM: So, let's deconstruct it. Did you feel any, any vibes?
MA: I – when I was running to the lake --
AM: Yeah.
MA: I was certain I was surrounded by people. It felt as if something else --
AM: So, it's like a good energy around you?
JS: Like all your friends were with you kind of anything?
MA: Yeah. Yeah. I guess it was good.
AM: Yeah.
MA: It was definitely like I was on an adventure --
JS: It wasn't like --
MA: -- and somebody was with me.
JS: Right.
AM: Sure.
JS: It wasn't like something was chasing you.
MA: No, not at all. And, to turn around and to see that --
AM: Wow.
JS: Yeah.
MA: -- you know, it was odd. It was – it was fucking terrifying, to be honest. But like --
AM: Did you get ripples in the water when it went in?
MA: No. That would be some shit. No. But it did shoot straight into the lake.
AM: Yeah.
MA: And, and that was the – I didn't see --
AM: Seamless like a dolphin just going it in the water. Wow.
MA: More or less. It just disappeared.
JS: Or like an Olympic Chinese diver.
AM: Really.
MA: It was just a red circle that vanished --
AM: Wow.
MA: -- as soon as it got to the lake.
JS: Oh, shit.
MA: And that fucked me up.
AM: That's pretty – that's pretty unexpected.
MA: It was. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
AM: I mean like, in real life, when thinking about like, like presences that you see, you can see like a glowing blue orb --
MA: Well, if you watch like dumb shit like, I do like fucking Ghost Adventures --
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
MA: -- or any of that bullshit, like that's how they describe.
AM: True.
MA: That's how anybody that ever sees spirits described seeing those orbs.
JS: They love orbs.
AM: Orbs.
MA: Not as – not as beams. Not as – and it was red.
AM: The red is very distinctive to me. Maybe it was at dusk.
JS: Yeah.
MA: It was dusk.
AM: Right.
MA: It – well, the sun was setting. So, I hopped back in the car. We're fucking done here. My friends like exploring. He won't sit in the Devil's Chair because he's afraid.
AM: Right.
MA: But he like walks up to it and, and explores it.
AM: It seems like a good human instinct.
MA: Yeah. Ry is the man. He knew what was up. So, he eventually comes back to the car. And we drive through this one road to get out. Now, I'll never forget this. It was very specific. Twelve deer on this road --
AM: Yeah.
MA: -- at separate times, ran out in front of our car.
AM: Like almost hit them or --
JS: That's great.
MA: No. Like we would stop. We weren't going that fast.
AM: Yeah.
MA: We are slowly, we were looking at the town.
AM: Sure.
MA: We were seeing how people lived.
AM: Yeah.
MA: Very backwoods. Deliverance-esque living.
AM: Nice. Like rested bicycles in the front yard?
MA: Yeah.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
MA: Exactly. Exactly.
AM: I know. I know.
JS: Rested lots of stuff.
AM: I drove through Florida, of course.
MA: Exactly. It was very backwoods. But I'll never forget --
JS: Twelve deer.
MA: -- 12 deer.
AM: Wow.
MA: Specifically 12. I don't know what that number means.
JS: I'm thinking like what could that represent.
AM: Yeah.
MA: It wasn't 13.
JS: Like did --
MA: That could have been fucking terrifying.
AM: Yeah.
JS: That would have been terrifying.
MA: Thank god, it didn't get to 13.
JS: You just didn't see the one that crossed behind you.
MA: Right.
AM: Whoa! That's pretty good.
MA: And that was the last one maybe.
JS: Probably.
AM: Yeah.
MA: So, we get --
JS: And whoever got out of the car first is going to die first.
AM: The last one often still gonna cross your path.
MA: Who knows? Maybe that's a very important thing for me.
JS: So, like --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- you better hope you won't see no deer in the future because it means you might gonna die soon.
MA: Maybe that is – that's how I'll die. I'll be frank about it.
AM: I didn't want to say it, but that's what I thought.
JS: Oh, I went there.
MA: Who knows.
AM: In front of your car and boom.
MA: Who knows?
JS: I was gonna say like, if there was 13, whoever gets out the car first is the one who dies first.
MA: Yeah. Easy. Easy. That'd have been not me. I was done. I was done getting out the car. And then we rode through the hill. It was dark by the time we finally got to the front of town --
AM: Yeah.
MA: -- and onto the hill, and that was fucking terrifying. Yeah.
AM: Cool experience.
MA: And then we finally got out of the hills and got cell phone reception and became people again. But that was such a specific experience. And there is – you can – as soon as you get on those hills, you feel different.
AM: Something.
MA: You, you feel different.
AM: Sure. You're isolated. There's all this mythos around you.
MA: Right. But it's a --
AM: It feels like a different era.
MA: It's an energy.
AM: Wow.
MA: And it is – It does feel like a different era because the town itself is super old.
AM: Yeah.
MA: It was established a long time ago. But my person – that was my personal experience with Cassadaga, Florida.
AM: What else exists about this town?
MA: Now, Cassadaga, Florida, a lot of people where I'm from anyway, the story is that it's the third point of the Bermuda Triangle, which it's not.
AM: I see.
MA: It's not. It's its own separate thing.
AM: Yeah.
MA: It has the vortex the same way as the --
AM: Yes.
MA: -- Bermuda Triangle. And that's how it gets swept up.
AM: The dividing vortex.
MA: But it's not the same. They're two totally different places.
AM: Uh-uh.
MA: The real story of Cassadaga, Florida is kind of fucking crazy hilarious and like spooky kind of thing.
AM: Historical stories. Yes.
JS: Okay.
MA: The historical. The truthful story.
AM: Listen, man, this is all your truth.
MA: That's true. That was my personal truth. This is – this is – I'm bringing up my notes now.
JS: Here we go. Ops, sound effects.
MA: Yup. So, the truthful story, George Colby, 27-year-old medium --
AM: Our founder.
MA: Our founder of Cassadaga. He would oftentimes go to this spiritualistic seminar that would happen in this town in New York that was adjacent to Cassadaga.
AM: Yeah.
MA: So, he would stay in Cassadaga along with a lot of the other mediums and people who are part of the community at that time, which was in the 1800s.
JS: I was gonna say what time period would that be. Late 1800s probably?
MA: Yeah. Late, late 1800 to mid-1800.
JS: Burned-Over district in New York. Look it up people. It's like the big old cult area.
MA: Boom! Probably where Cassadaga is.
JS: Oh, yeah.
MA: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say --
AM: Julia does her master's in American occultism/cult history.
JS: Yeah.
AM: I/you know, small religious history. I don't want to be offensive here.
JS: American founded religions.
AM: There you go.
MA: When we're talking about religion, we're talking about Cassadaga.
AM: So, she's gonna write about that.
JS: Yeah.
MA: Well, with that, definitely --
JS: It's one of those --
MA: So, that probably is super synonymous.
AM: Yep.
MA: So, he would go to these meetings every year, and --
AM: At Cassadaga West.
MA: Cassa – we're calling it Cassadaga Northeast.
AM: There you go.
MA: And one time – well, he would basically follow whomever he was moved by.
AM: Interesting.
MA: So, he went to Lake Mills, Iowa.
AM: Wow.
JS: Sure.
AM: Pretty far field.
MA: And – not, not anywhere near New York or, at least, Cassadaga, either of them.
AM: Iowa is far from all of New York.
MA: Iowa is far from all of New York; the whole – the whole kit and caboodle.
AM: Whole thing. Whole thing.
MA: So, he was met by an Indian spirit named Seneca.
AM: Wow. Seneca Falls?
JS: Seneca was a dude from history.
AM: A Roman dude.
JS: No. But like also like I think they named – they gave a Native American chief the name Seneca at some point
AM: Right.
MA: No shit. I totally believe it. Well, that was awesome.
AM: Classic Westerners. You have a name. It goes to that man right there. This is your new name.
MA: Okay. Okay.
JS: You are now named Philip.
MA: You're done here.
AM: Good for you.
MA: Live and let live. So, Seneca told him to head South. This is what it said – it specifically said to him. I wasn't there. I couldn't tell you [Inaudible 22:09].
JS: No one was.
MA: Now, this is 19 – this is 1875.
AM: Yeah.
MA: Seneca says a congress of spirits has selected Florida for the establishment of a great spiritualistic center, and Colby has been chosen to lead its creation.
JS: It sounds like how Walt Disney picked Disney World.
MA: More or less. Well, probably.
AM: It sounds like a Florida statesman/capitalists trying to populate his new land grab. We, we own that [Inaudible 22:37] by 1875 probably trying to --
JS: Oh, definitely.
AM: -- populate the industrial expansion.
MA: Well --
AM: Who knows?
JS: Yeah.
MA: Whoever's pocket Seneca was in.
JS: This spirits got a little [Inaudible 22:47]
AM: It got a little – got a little – a little plumper that day.
MA: And he told Colby, who was with somebody else, but he was obviously the chosen one. So, I didn't even write that other person's name down, doesn't matter.
AM: Too bad.
MA: Not a part of the story.
JS: History will not remember you.
MA: Boom. You're done, son. So, Colby makes his way from Iowa to Florida in 1875.
AM: That's a long journey.
MA: That shit should take a minute. He got there in a year. He got there in under a year.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
MA: He got to --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- Florida in 1875.
JS: He was booking it.
MA: No. He --
AM: But Florida, like total swamp.
MA: Right. Oh --
AM: Not even partial swamp. Total swamp.
MA: Full blownsies.
AM: Yeah.
MA: You don't want to be there. So, he's going off of this vision that he saw with Seneca.
AM: Wow. Yeah.
MA: Who's not a real – it was an Indian spirit --
AM: Yeah.
MA: -- named Seneca. Not a person.
AM: Not a guy.
MA: Not a, not a dude.
AM: Oh, just an apparition.
JS: No. No straight-up just --
MA: It's an apparition.
JS: No dude walked up to him and like --
MA: No.
JS: -- this is what you should do. No. It's like a --
MA: These dudes in Iowa having a seance.
AM: Silvery spirit.
MA: And then this thing comes out of the woodwork --
AM: Literal woodwork.
MA: -- telling him --
AM: Wow.
MA: -- Florida --
AM: Wow.
MA: -- you know. So, he gets to Florida, and he gets two different spots. And he's like, "Nope, not it."
AM: Not it. Not it.
MA: Keep going.
AM: No.
MA: Nope, not it. Keep going.
AM: Not Cassadaga South.
JS: What's he doing like the divining routes or he's just looking at it and he's like, "Nah."
MA: Probably a little bit of column A, column B type situation.
JS: All right. Got you.
MA: Felt it out. He was like, "Mind's eye, not it."
AM: Wants to validate his assumption. Nope.
MA: Let's go. This looks close because all this shit looks like swamp, but it's not it. Let's keep going. So, they eventually get to Cassadaga.
AM: Yeah.
MA: And he's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa."
AM: There's hills here.
MA: This rod is going crazy. There's hills here.
AM: Wow. Two lakes. Good sign.
JS: Two ponds.
AM: Two ponds. So sorry.
MA: It's okay. I thought it was lake. I really really did.
AM: Yeah.
MA: Fucking Spirit Pond, it'll get you.
AM: Maybe that's like Wikipedia revisionism. Maybe someone is wanting to know.
MA: It might be.
AM: Yeah.
MA: It might be that woman told us Spirit Lake. And, for years --
AM: I would go to the old lady’s --
MA: I regurgitated Spirit Lake.
JS: Let's do old lady wisdom now.
MA: But, if you Google it, it says Spirit Pond. So, George makes his way to Cassadaga. The rods tell him what's good. He feels it. He saw it. He got there and he was --
AM: The rods will validate his assumption.
MA: I'm gonna say – and I don't know this to be true. I'm gonna say he got there. Before the rods even came out of the pocket, he was like --
AM: He knew.
MA: “Yo!”
AM: He knew.
JS: He didn't even have --
MA: In my mind's eye --
MA: Without the rod.
JS: He didn't even have to whip out the rod.
MA: Whoa!
AM: Right away, Daphne.
MA: Whoa.
AM: I know.
MA: You know, if he was thorough, he whipped out the rod. And I --
AM: I think he has to mark his territory.
MA: I like to think of George Colby as being a thorough individual.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Sure.
AM: Yeah.
MA: So --
AM: He can't, he can't just be founding Cassadaga South willy nilly.
MA: I mean --
JS: He can't just start fulfilling Seneca's --
AM: Not.
MA: Right. It would be super disrespectful to Seneca.
AM: It would be.
MA: More than anybody --
AM: He's got to – got to honor --
MA: -- Seneca would be --
AM: -- the native apparitions.
MA: -- deeply offended.
AM: There's the whole land grabbing of this continent but like --
MA: But pass that.
AM: -- secondly – right. he would be also offended --
MA: So --
AM: --if someone ignores --
JS: He was telling this white man to take his land. So, you know --
MA: Well, he was. Right. That – like what was he to do?
JS: It seems legit.
AM: That's it.
MA: What was he to do?
AM: Exactly. Right.
MA: Twenty seven years old, talking to fucking spirits. Might as well just take some land. So, he gets there. They settle. They're doing their thing.
AM: Yeah. It looks like.
MA: They invite people there.
AM: Yeah.
MA: Now the first --
AM: Got it.
MA: -- like original settlers of Cassadaga, Florida, were scholars, were very fluent. Super, super-wealthy. Hyper wealthy for the time.
AM: Yeah.
MA: And they were coming down there for knowledge. Very intellectual individuals,
AM: The Antebellum 1%,
MA: You know – right. Right. At the time. Who knows how they got their money. Let's even --
AM: Let's not think about it. That's fine.
JS: That's fine.
MA: That's a different time, different place situation.
JS: They're in the south. We know.
MA: We know. We know. But they came from the North. I mean these are people that came --
AM: Yeah.
MA: -- that would travel to New York.
AM: They're also complicit in slavery, but --
MA: True.
AM: -- not, not as...
MA: But, at the time, these were people that were traveling to New York.
AM: They were. They were seekers.
MA: So, they had money to move anyway. So, they moved to Cassadaga, and they settle it as a true town. And the State of Florida finally granted them 35 acres of land.
AM: Not very much, but okay.
MA: Not very much.
AM: Yeah.
MA: The whole town, even to this day, is only 55. It's not a big town. It's a spiritualistic commune. I guess it's almost even – it's not a town.
AM: Gotta, gotta retain that bespoke town feeling.
MA: Right.
AM: Yeah.
MA: You know, right on the cusp. They finally get the grant to be existent because they were just living there essentially illegally.
AM: They got that land deed. Yeah.
MA: But they got the land deed. And then they became not a religion, but they --
AM: Spiritualistic community?
MA: They're a spiritualist community that got – that is tax-exempt to this day.
AM: Oh!
JS: So, at this point, it is a spiritual like --
MA: It's a – it's a religion.
AM: It's a religion.
MA: I mean it's a religion it's looked at by the government as a religion.
JS: You don't get that tax exemption for nothing.
MA: For nothing.
JS: Though, apparently, it's super easy to get tax-exempt, exemptions in religion.
MA: It took Scientology a good while.
JS: Well, yeah, because Scientology was like, you know? Charging people money.
MA: And then just taking them.
JS: Oh, yeah. And like, you know --
MA: El-Ron Hubbard. Although, I will say George Colby, very Hubbard-esque if you think about it.
JS: Yeah. Did he also start as a science fiction writer?
MA: No. That would be the first --
JS: He's got that going for him I guess.
AM: It is the Industrial Age.
MA: Right.
AM: Right.
MA: So --
AM: Everyone's a little bit steampunky.
MA: Right.
AM: Just, just [Inaudible 28:11].
MA: He probably wore the goggles.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Exactly.
JS: The goggles and top hat.
MA: Right.
AM: In a stagecoach.
MA: For sure.
AM: Sidebar. I love how, when we think about like people moving west, there's like stage coach, you know, Oklahoma planes.
MA: Right.
AM: They just have like one suitcase and a hatbox.
MA: That's it.
AM: Like that's all you need.
JS: That's all you need.
MA: It maybe the hatbox.
AM: Right. And maybe the hatbox.
MA: The hatbox has like the good stuff. I assume.
AM: Is – was the hatbox like the – like the night table and – what is it called? The nightstand drawer?
MA: Nightstand? Yeah.
JS: Yes.
MA: Yeah. that's where you kept your watch, wallet, keys.
AM: The hatbox was the nightstand drawer --
MA: -- iPhone. It had everything in it.
AM: -- you know, paraphernalia or whatever.
MA: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: However, you want to say it.
JS: You gotta keep your opium pipe somewhere.
MA: For sure.
JS: You have to keep that opium pipe somewhere.
AM: You do.
MA: So if modern-day --
AM: Yep.
MA: -- basically, they refute any type of – what that lady told us about Spirit Lake, that's like detested. They swear that that's not the case. Many people say --
AM: That ashes don't go back into the lake.
MA: That ashes don't go back into the lake. They're buried like normal people. There's a cemetery there actually. So, to some extent, that might be true.
JS: Or, it's all a ruse.
AM: A ruse.
MA: Right. Right.
JS: They, they move the bodies, but keep the – they move the headstones, but keep the bodies like they do in Poltergeist.
Outro
AM: Spirits was created by Julia Schifini and me, Amanda McLoughlin. It's edited by Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
JS: Subscribe to Spirits on your preferred podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Tumblr @SpiritsPodcast.
AM: On our Patreon page patreon.com/spiritspodcast, you can sign up for exclusive content like behind the scenes photos, audio, extras, director's commentary, blooper reels and beautiful recipe cards with custom drink and snack pairings.
JS: If you like the show, please share with your friends and leave us a review on iTunes. It really does help.
AM: Thank you so much for listening, ‘til next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil