Episode 13: Chinese Demonology
/Dive with us into the treacherous waters of Chinese Demonology, where giant clam monsters and sea serpents lurk. We encounter everything from zombies, to Pokemon Go, to monkeys creepier than your childhood Furby. Enjoy this quick tour of the bad, the ugly, and the actually-kinda-funny!
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Our music is "Danger Storm" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Transcript
AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, your boozy biweekly foray into myths and legends.
JS: We drink spirits and we talk about spirits. Get it?
AM: I mean learning and drinking jokes. What more could you need?
JS: We have another great episode lined up for you today. But, first, we'd like to thank everybody who took the time to review us on iTunes. Every time you review us, we get to find other people who love mythology, who love drinking, who love us, and we love that.
AM: And we love hearing what you think on Twitter. So, this week, we'd love to give some special shout outs to Austin Beach, Ben Thomas, and Lena Wickburg, as well as our friends at Uncanny County, [0:33] Sapple Podcast, Radio Drama Revival and Greater Boston.
JS: They're all really good, and you should definitely check them out.
AM: Yes, we love those shows. And, every Thursday and Sunday, we recommend new shows for you guys to follow. So, definitely shout us out. Follow us there.
JS: All right. And you can find us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Patreon, and, of course, any podcast player that you use.
AM: We're almost halfway also to our first goal on Patreon. For just $3, you too can enjoy our director's commentary, behind the scenes photos, and drunk film reviews. We just did Little Shop of Horrors. It was really fun. I've never seen it before. It was amazing. And, oh, this week we are drinking red ale.
JS: Terrible. No.
AM: Yes. Yes. I love puns.
JS: No. Terrible.
AM: Anyway, listeners, sit back, relax, and enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 13: Chinese Demonology.
Intro Music
JS: This weekend, I found out a travesty.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: Not only have you never seen the classic 80s movie, Gremlins, I found out our editor, Eric, has never seen the classic movie, Gremlins.
AM: We're sitting here shaming you, Eric, from afar. You're in Cleveland not knowing --
JS: Something’s wrong with you.
AM: -- that we are shaming you harshly. And, by we, I mean Julia, because I also haven't seen the movie Gremlins. Sorry.
JS: God damn it.
AM: They're like Furbies, right, with things inside.
JS: Sort of --
AM: Okay.
JS: -- with things inside. They're, they're like living creatures.
AM: Like a Dalek.
JS: No. They're not like – there's no exterior shell.
AM: We have – we have some homework to do. We have some homework to do.
JS: They're like adorb – if Furbies we're alive and weren’t mechanical, that's what the --
AM: Aren't they mechanical though? Listen, Julia, there have been several instances of times --
JS: Are we doing the haunted Furby thing now? All right. I see how it is.
AM: Yes. Because several times watching my baby siblings when I was young – right? I was like 7, 8, 9, 10 and they were like not 1, 2, 3, et cetera. Not – sorry. I see zero when I'm drunk.
JS: [inaudible 2:37]
AM: Anyway. And I, I would hear the Furby from across the hallway, the Furby would start moving from within a pile of toys. We threw the Furby down the basement stairs one time. And it smacked against the door. And it continued talking well into the night because none of us wanted to go downstairs and rescue it. Furbies are terrible.
JS: Are you okay?
AM: I'm fine, but like why would I sign up to watch a movie like that?
JS: Because it's great. It's a great movie. The basic concept – because you're not informed, it's okay.
AM: I'm not. No.
JS: The basic concept is this kid gets this little pet thing --
AM: Okay.
JS: -- called Mogwai.
AM: So, it is a Furby.
JS: Yes.
AM: Okay.
JS: It's cute. He gets a set of rules with it too.
AM: Wait. Is it – is it a living creature or is it mechanical?
JS: Yes. It's a living creature.
AM: All right. So, like, like the – what are – what were those Grow Your Own Abe Lincoln heads?
JS: Chia pet?
AM: That's the one.
JS: Except, it's not made of plants and like [inaudible 3:30].
AM: Forget it. Continue.
JS: Okay.
AM: Continue.
JS: So, he gets the Mogwai --
AM: Okay.
JS: -- this Chinese dude. It's super racist, whatever.
AM: Okay.
JS: It comes with a set of rules.
AM: Okay.
JS: One of the rules is don't get the Mogwai wet. If you get the Mogwai wet, it turns into this like, evil Gremlin thing.
AM: Wow.
JS: Hence, the title of the movie.
AM: Wow. Wow. It's like a really intense cat. You know, if you get cats wet, they --
JS: Sure.
AM: They get freaked out.
JS: That sounds right.
AM: So I hear. I'm definitely allergic to all living creatures. So, I wouldn't know.
JS: So, the Mogwai was not just a crazy invention by like 80s filmmakers.
AM: Oh.
JS: It is an actual Chinese demon. Did you know that?
AM: Did they – did they appropriate Chinese tradition --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- into a movie?
JS: Yes, they did.
AM: Great. Thanks, Hollywood.
JS: And we're gonna talk a lot about not just the Mogwai, which is creepy on its own, but a bunch of classic demons from Chinese mythology, spirits, vampire, ghouls– shit like that.
AM: Is this a demon roundup?
JS: Demon roundup.
AM: Yes.
JS: Wooh. I want like a breakdown music right there. Like haaaaa--aa-ahhh!
AM: Tsh-tshtshtsh!
JS: All right. So, starting with the Mogwai, because it is a classic. So, it is actually a general term for a monster, evil spirit, devil, or demon.
AM: Good. It's good to have a catch-all phrase for all those nasty things you don't want under the bed.
JS: It usually refers, in Chinese mythology, to dead spirits or ghosts of like non-family members who are like getting their revenge on people who wronged them during their lives.
AM: Great.
JS: In order --
AM: Who would you get revenge on?
JS: You know who I'd get revenge on.
AM: I saw the look in your eyes, and I knew immediately.
JS: Yeah. Best friends. Companion from the cradles.
AM: Ghost of wrong--
JS: Prom Date
AM: - wrong-
JS: Shit.
AM: -prom dates past.
JS: Yes.
AM: Word.
JS: Okay. Good.
AM: I'm glad we had this pact.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And if, if I – if I were to die tragically young and become a ghost and, and you lived to your ripe old age, I would exact revenge upon your targets for you.
JS: That's so nice, Amanda.
AM: Of course, for you.
JS: That is the cutest thing ever.
AM: I hope – I hope we don't die old and alone. I hope we die old and alone together.
JS: Yes, agreed. So, to get those spirits, the Mogwai spirits, on your good side and to kind of apologize for their sins, people will burn fake money so that they have money to use in the afterlife.
AM: Nice.
JS: Kind of like when you leave – in Greek mythology, when you leave like coins with a dead person so they can pay for the ferry.
AM: To cross Styx River.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JS: That's the river. Same.
AM: And just like Pharaohs need all of the wealth in the land.
JS: That's a little bit different, because they stay in their bodies. But, you know? same basic concept.
AM: I took an Egyptology class in the third grade. So, who's the expert now?
JS: You know – you know everything. Sure. It's actually really interesting in the modern usage, because, when you use the word, Mogwai, it's the same word for demon and devil. So, if you look at like Chinese translations of the Bible --
AM: Dope.
JS: -- anytime it says Satan or the devil, it's – they use the word <ogwai, which I think is awesome.
AM: That is awesome.
JS: Like really, really cool. So, the --
AM: The class of devil and the Devil capitalized. Yeah.
JS: Yes, exactly. So, going back to the terrible 80s movie – well, not terrible 80s movie, it's a good movie. Mogwai like are known to reproduce --
AM: Okay.
JS: -- when there's rain.
AM: Ahhh. Like mosquitoes.
JS: Hence, the don't get wet kind of thing.
AM: They spawn in the rain.
JS: And this is actually because rain is supposed to signify like rich and prosperous time ahead.
AM: Ohhh.
JS: So, they're like, "Ooh, time to bang because, you know --
AM: [inaudible 7:05], It's all good.
JS: -- this can be a bunch of things going on.
AM: Can we talk about Pokemon for a second, Julia?
JS: Yes. Okay.
AM: Okay. Okay.
JS: Pokemon Go just started this weekend as we're recording. So --
AM: Yes. We're recording this almost in real-time.
JS: Yes.
AM: And – for once, and my sister is a lifeguard along with my mom, along with my youngest brother, and the whole family – whatever. And, apparently, she has been swimming with her phone in a Ziploc bag to catch Magikarp.
JS: Well, you need 400 to get a Gyarados. So --
AM: Yeah. Like, think about your life. Think about your choices. I love you, Noah [7:34]. I- I love her, and it's great. And there's the little bit – the little Krabby ones. I think it's called, Krabby with a K.
JS: Krabby. It’s called, Krabby. Okay.
AM: And, and one of them saw the big evolves.
JS: Lapras?
AM: No. The big – the evolved kind of card.
JS: Gyarados?
AM: That one.
JS: Gyarados.
AM: One of them saw Lapras as well. And it's very exciting. Apparently, it's good to be – good to be a lifeguard.
JS: Your family are literally the swimmers from the Pokemon games that like attack you in the water.
AM: That's true!
JS: Yeah, and then battle you.
AM: I will go call them afterward.
JS: Okay.
AM: Anyway, it's been very fun. Midtown Manhattan is a great place to work for Pokemon. Long Island City, where Julia works, not so much.
JS: The next demon that we are going to talk about is the Jiangshi.
AM: Cool.
JS: It is known as the hopping vampire.
AM: I am already so on board.
JS: I know it. I knew you would be. Basically, it's a reanimated corpse that is so stiff probably from like rigor mortis or whatever.
AM: Yeah.
JS: That its arms are constantly outstretched to keep balance.
AM: Like traditional zombie lore that we see.
JS: And it has to hop around because its legs are locked.
AM: Wow. That's, that's super anatomically correct.
JS: Yes. Yes, it is.
AM: I dig it. And, therefore, scarier I think. Like, when the logical leap between the things that you know and the lore that we tell – when that's the smallest, that is the scariest.
JS: So, they can either look newly dead or like really decayed. And they are usually shown and like are to have this paper talisman across their – like stuck to their forehead.
AM: Like the golem.
JS: Yes. And, so, it's like kind of hanging there like that. And it usually has green or white skin.
AM: Why?
JS: Apparently, it has something to do with like mold or something and just like the decaying body and stuff like that.
AM: Wow. Logical, logical reasoning.
JS: They really thought about that. So, there are several ways that a Jiangshi is created.
AM: Yes.
JS: I'm going to list them off because there's a lot of them. But it's gonna be real quick.
AM: Okay. I'll save my questions for the end.
JS: Supernatural arts that resurrect the dead, spirit possession. Dead person is not buried after the funeral is held and then struck by lightning or a pregnant black cat jumps across the coffin.
AM: What?
JS: The soul doesn't want to leave the body because of improper death; either murder, murder or suicide, and just wants to cause trouble.
AM: Classic.
JS: Or, it is zombie or vampire method where a Jiangshi bites an infected person, and they slowly change over time.
AM: This is like a whole grab bag.
JS: Yeah.
AM: I love that this is the class of- of reanimated thing. You know, that there's so many different ways you could do it. Wow, I like it.
JS: Yeah. It's pretty cool. I mean it's very classic zombie/vampire as we know it, especially when you consider the fact that a Jiangshi eats by sucking the chi out of someone and like just sucking their life force out of them and creating other Jiangshi.
AM: Oh, I was going to ask are they – I mean I'm assuming they're malicious --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- if they're – if they're in this class of demons. But they --
JS: Usually, like dead bodies that are reanimated, they're usually kind of malicious just in general mythology.
AM: That's the thing though. Not always. Like --
JS: We get creeped out by dead bodies. That's just a thing.
AM: Obvi.
JS: Obvi.
AM: But, also, in some zombie media, the zombies are just – are just doing their thing. Like they're just kind of going after food sources. And like that's – you know, that's a tragedy, but it's like we're just living our parallel lives. And they can't help but come into contact and conflict.
JS: But, usually, the food source is humans.
AM: Right. Right. Right.
JS: So, malicious.
AM: Other zombies just want to like frickin destroy everything. Like, there's a difference. Like, some of them are just sort of like a dumb dead, you know, happy – whatever. Oh, they're cute, the zombies. Just keep them away. I can't think of any example now. Maybe it's just my head.
JS: I think it is.
AM: Okay.
JS: There is that one movie that's like a British television show that got canceled early.
AM: Yes.
JS: Yeah, I can't remember the name of it.
AM: The Gay Zombies.
JS: The Gay Zombies.
AM: That was great. Being human? No, that's the other one.
JS: No. That's – yeah.
AM: Look in the show notes.
JS: We'll remember later.
AM: Spirits Podcasts, we'll remember later.
JS: So, there's a couple of ways of warding off a Jiangshi.
AM: Yes.
JS: I'm gonna list them off.
AM: For yourself or for your household?
JS: Both.
AM: Because like I don't want to become one, you know.
JS: No, I don't. Then you would probably want to protect your apartment too. So like --
AM: True.
JS: Yeah. So, they could be warded off with mirrors, because they are terrified of their own --
AM: Wow. A zombie – the vampire thing.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Terrified of their own reflections. Peach trees, because they help get rid of evil auras and spirits.
AM: Great. It's a great smell. Great fruit. All around 10 out of 10 fruit.
JS: And the rooster’s call, because it signifies the next day. And these guys can't go out during the daytime.
AM: So much great zombie lore in here.
JS: It's really good. They're about zombie stuff.
AM: And, by zombie, I mean vampire.
JS: We know what you meant. All right. Moving on to the next one, it is called the Baku.
AM: Cool. Sounds like the Bacchae of Greek.
JS: Oh, yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Yeah.
AM: The play --
JS: I had to think about that for a second. What the fuck.
AM: The play we almost did.
JS: Okay. So, the Baku, it's actually Chinese and Japanese, but its roots are in Chinese. It is a spirit that devours dreams and nightmares.
AM: That sounds great. The nightmare eater?
JS: Yep.
AM: Yeah. I felt like I've heard this one a little bit before in some other kind of media.
JS: Going back to Pokemon Go, Drowzee --
AM: Yes.
JS: -- is inspired by this spirit.
AM: Yes, he is.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Beautiful.
JS: So, it has a really weird appearance. It's basically an elephant trunk, rhino eyes, oxtail, and tiger paws.
AM: Wow. That really is rising Drowzee.
JS: Right. So, basically, it's supposed to be like the gods had all these leftover pieces --
AM: Right.
JS: -- and they just kind of threw it together.
AM: Sounds like a great and very useful vacuum cleaner.
JS: Absolutely.
AM: I definitely would love a cute little Drowzee in here to sit on my mantel and, you know, make sure the bad dreams don't get me.
JS: So, about that – so, the Baku are usually benevolent. Like, they're pretty cool thing. You can chill out with them, but it's got a dark side.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: So, children are supposed to be able to call the Baku to devour their nightmares. So, if they call like out three times, Baku-san, come eat my dreams; three times --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- Baku is going to come and --
AM: This is sounding vaguely familiar.
JS: Yes.
AM: Maybe it was like one of those essays in the- in the English language regions --
JS: Oh, god.
AM: -- where you have that like state and testing exams, where they like tell you a fable and you had to like choose A, B, and C. Anyway.
JS: Yeah, that sounds like that dumb shit. So, the Baku will come to the child's room, devour the bad dream, and then the kid can like fall asleep all peaceful and stuff.
AM: Nice.
JS: But, if the child calls Baku too often, he will remain hungry. Like, he won't be satisfied with just that nightmare.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: And he like eats all your hopes and dreams.
AM: God damn it.
JS: So, you can't --
AM: Nothing is free in this world.
JS: No.
AM: That's, that's the lesson.
JS: The Baku, now, the term is actually used for the modern tapir, the really cute little animal that looks like a zebra and like that good stuff.
AM: Oh, the little like – yeah. The little baby – that four-legged thing
JS: Like they kind of look like giraffes, but with like zebra butts.
AM: I think – yeah. I think – I think just behind the red panda in terms of cuteness --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- in, in small --
JS: Agree.
AM: -- mammals.
JS: They're like kind of big though. They're like donkey size.
AM: They are. Yes.
JS: But I get it.
AM: Are they?
JS: Yeah.
AM: I thought they were like dogs – like golden retriever size.
JS: No. No. Donkey size I think. We'll look it up later.
AM: I would – I would love to see a photo of a giant golden retriever and a tiny donkey.
JS: That would be so cute though.
AM: By the way the 100% Goats Twitter, the best Twitter.
JS: It is the best.
AM: They win – they win Twitter in fact.
JS: Always.
AM: There was a woman doing a yoga pose the other day with a goat just like standing on her butt.
JS: Yes.
AM: The goats stand on the highest thing.
JS: Yes.
AM: I love goats.
JS: I fucking love goats.
AM: So good. Headcanon, Baku in goat shape. But, anyway, it makes total sense that – that you have a little bit of boy who cried wolf kind of thing going on, where, you know, you can't just get off easy all the time, because, you know, you don't want to experience hardship. Like you have to, you know --
JS: Suck it up.
AM: -- really think about, right, like when, when you want to call in the reinforcements.
JS: Suck it up, small Chinese boy. Have those nightmares.
AM: But, no, they're children. Can adults call them or just kids?
JS: Umm, I guess they can, but I think it's more of like children so you don't like bother your parents,
AM: Right.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Like, okay, the Baku ate my dream. So, now, I can go back to sleep. I don't have to wake up mom and dad.
AM: Ideally.
JS: Yeah. The next one is called the Bashe.
AM: Cool. Not Banshee, but Bashe.
JS: It is a giant snake.
AM: Nope.
JS: It’s just like, “Nope, I don't want to hear anymore.” That’s it.
AM: That’s all I have to say.
JS: All right. But you're gonna hear more anyway.
AM: Ugh! Things I do for the show.
JS: So, it's used now to describe like giant pythons and boa constrictors.
AM: Oh.
JS: Kind of like how we use the word hydra to represent like a creature with multiple heads.
AM: Yes. Yeah.
JS: And it comes from the Greek.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Okay.
AM: That one I know.
JS: Bashe is a great monster snake. So, every three years, it swallows a elephant whole.
AM: Okay.
JS: And then it takes like three years for it to digest that. And then it gets hungry again.
AM: That's, that's quite anatomically sensible.
JS: So, it's actually super interesting because there's different ways that it like digests the elephant.
AM: Okay.
JS: So, it either like spits it out at the end of – all the bones --
AM: Right. Right.
JS: -- out at the end of the three years or it like secretes the bones through its skin, which is like a really creepy image if you think about it.
AM: In liquid form or in solid form?
JS: In solid form. Like, between the scales just like a elephant skull comes out.
AM: I'm picturing like a cobra raising it’s like earflaps, and there are bones sticking out behind it like a headdress.
JS: Have you seen a cobra before?
AM: No.
JS: They don't have earflaps.
AM: No. The neck flaps – whatever they are.
JS: They're like down here though.
AM: Okay, fine. The head flaps.
JS: I feel like you're thinking of the Jurassic Park one that's spits acid. Like, psssh!
AM: No, no. No, no.
JS: No. All right.
AM: I might have been.
JS: So, a lot of stories say that it also can have like bristly hair like a pig.
AM: Nope.
JS: Like a wild pig.
AM: Nope. Don't like that at all.
JS: Creepy as hell.
AM: Nope.
JS: So, they're actually really like prized creatures in mythology, because, if you either eat – it's different from each story. But, if you either eat the bones that it spits out or secretes or whatever, or if you like kill it and eat part of it yourself, you'll like never have heart problems or digestive problems ever again.
AM: Great.
JS: So…
AM: Because you'd have that snake blood running through your veins.
JS: You got that snake blood.
AM: Yeah, I wouldn't say no.
JS: Yeah. No.
AM: I would definitely say no.
JS: Okay. That's better.
AM: But, yeah, that sounds --
JS: [inaudible 18:05].
AM: -- that sounds pretty useful.
JS: I've eaten weirder stuff --
AM: You have.
JS: -- than giant snakes.
AM: You have. Unlike your mom, who is in France right now eating hamburgers.
JS: Oh, god damn that woman.
AM: Come on, mom!
JS: God damn that woman.
AM: Come on, mom.
JS: The Bashe's name, now, is used in this phrase, which basically means inordinately greedy and extremely insatiable.
AM: Great pronunciation of those long words.
JS: Yes, thank you. I can do things while I'm drunk sometimes.
AM: I'm just looking at you and picturing the syllables and thinking, "Nope."
JS: The next one that we're doing is particularly creepy. And I don't like it at all, but here we go.
AM: Great.
JS: It's called the Jueyuan.
AM: Okay.
JS: It's probably not the right pronunciation, but we're going to do it anyway.
AM: Good work.
JS: These guys are basically like monkeys but bigger. And they walk around on two feet. They're like slightly smaller than humans, I would say.
AM: Okay.
JS: Like probably averaging four feet or so.
AM: Okay.
JS: They live for about 100 years.
AM: Okay.
JS: They are a dark blue color.
AM: Okay.
JS: And there are no females in the species. So, they tend to kidnap women and rape them.
AM: Nope.
JS: Yep. No. It's not fun.
AM: Why? No.
JS: Because --
AM: But where – from whence do they come?
JS: They like evolved out of monkeys. And they're just like if a monkey --
AM: So, they're, they're like --
JS: -- is super old, it becomes a Jueyuan.
AM: You just what? Like crystallized into a Metapod?
JS: Yeah, basically.
AM: And then become a blue man --
JS: Butterfree.
AM: -- who has to steal women?
JS: Yeah. It's kind of terrible. I really don't like the story. The male Jueyuan have children via --
AM: Right.
JS: -- the women, and like keeps them with them.
AM: Okay.
JS: If a woman manages to escape before she has the child, she can like, raise it as a human, and there's no problem.
AM: Okay. Are they not blue or they get blue when they're old?
JS: They get blue when they're older.
AM: Oh.
JS: But, if they grow up in Jueyuan society --
AM: It's a shitty end-of-life puberty.
JS: Yeah, not great. They stay with the Jueyuan, they turn into like male Jueyuan in that --
AM: Interesting metaphor for like testosterone-fueled, you know, badness.
JS: Yeah.
AM: I have to read on that when I'm – when I'm --
JS: It's also like --
AM: Later.
JS: -- super weird. So, if the woman is stuck with the- the culture for like more than 20 years, she gets like Stockholm Syndrome. And then she just like never leaves.
AM: Sure.
JS: And, if she like, goes back, she's just like – they like just lose their will to return to humankind after 20 years. They're just like, "Nah, this is fine."
AM: Stockholm Syndrome. That's a real syndrome.
JS: Yes, it is. They just kind of shrug. And they're like, "Huh, these monkeys are cool, I guess."
AM: I mean, I get it. You – there's a – there's a human desire to make the best of your circumstances, I guess.
JS: Unfortunately.
AM: She says shrugging in her blue dress and her blue apartment. I'm not gonna sleep easy tonight. Thanks, Julia.
JS: No problem. The next one that we're doing, the Nian.
AM: The Nyan Cat?
JS: Not spelled the same way.
AM: And that's Japanese I think.
JS: Yes, probably.
AM: Sorry.
JS: This is, actually, the – if you've ever seen like a Chinese New Year celebration, you know, the like dancing dragon, tiger thing.
AM: Oh, yeah.
JS: So, that's what this is.
AM: Oh, nice. I love that one.
JS: Once each spring, it comes out of hiding from its home either like deep in the ocean or like, in the caves in the mountains.
AM: Great. Gyarados. Get it.
JS: And it attacks people, usually, children.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That's not what I imagine.
JS: Not great.
AM: Then why do we bring them to our parades?
JS: Well, those are reenactments. We're going to talk about it.
AM: Okay.
JS: So, the --
AM: I don't hate most of the answers to my question.
JS: I do.
AM: Me too.
JS: So, basically – going back, this thing looks like kind of a combination between a lion and an ox. And, usually, it has like a weird unicorn horn.
AM: I don't know about that. The body is really long.
JS: Yes.
AM: Yeah.
JS: All right. Because it's supposed to be a giant.
AM: Okay.
JS: A giant --
AM: But I thought it was like a snake with a dragon head type thing because in parades, anyway, there's like many people playing the body.
JS: Right. Because it's so long.
AM: Okay.
JS: It's supposed to be a giant. It's – whatever.
AM: Okay.
JS: It's, it's a giant lion.
AM: That's fine. It's a puppet.
JS: So, as scary as it is, it actually has like some really obvious weaknesses that are easy to exploit.
AM: Great.
JS: It is sensitive to loud noises and fears the color red.
AM: There you go.
JS: Like super easy.
AM: Fireworks and beautiful red parades.
JS: That's why we wear the red robes and set off the fireworks and firecrackers. It's because the Nian will not visit a village that has that.
AM: Right.
JS: And like won't do it ever again.
AM: Not today, Nian.
JS: So, that's why they do the reenactments.
AM: Not ever.
JS: So, it's actually – so, Chinese culture still believes that like the Nian exists, but it will never make an appearance in a town that celebrates New Year.
AM: That's awesome.
JS: So, like celebrating the New Year's important, because it's keeping your village safe.
AM: Beautiful.
JS: Isn't that cool?
AM: It's like the anti-lottery. And, and, listeners, if you have not --
JS: The short story.
AM: -- if you have not read the Shirley Jackson short story, The Lottery, do it and then you won't sleep tonight. It's being the real lotteries though. There was this slogan in New York State lottery like --
JS: History.
AM: -- advertising, "You gotta be in it to win it."
JS: Yep.
AM: Which I continue to say like at least once a week because it's true. It's true. Like you, you know --
JS: You do.
AM: -- you gotta try something in order to have a chance at success. Even if there's a chance of you doing well, no matter how marginal, like you have to be in the thing to, to actually be in the game. So, anyway, I like it a lot.
JS: As, as Jake and the McElroy brothers apparently say, "You gotta risk it to get the biscuit." That's big.
AM: That's so much better.
JS: I know.
AM: That's so much better. That's so much better.
JS: Yeah. Last one that we're going to talk about is called the Shen.
AM: Shen.
JS: Shen.
AM: Cool.
JS: It actually means, mollusk. But --
AM: That is not what I expect that you'd say at all.
JS: But it's – in Chinese mythology, it's usually representing a shape-shifting dragon or a – like, giant clam monster.
AM: Those things seem different.
JS: So, like either way it's some sort of sea monster that's associated with creating --
AM: Are dragons from the sea?
JS: Yeah.
AM: Are they?
JS: Yeah.
AM: [Darby 24:32] dragons?
JS: Yeah.
AM: As I say it, it makes sense.
JS: Yes.
AM: Continue.
JS: Okay.
AM: As I expect – I pictured the like the- the smoke, you know?
JS: Smoke. Yes.
AM: -- volcano or whatever. Cave that may [Inaudible 24:42] thing. But now that I think about it, they're, they're serpentine.
JS: Chinese dragons usually tend to be water-related too.
AM: Okay.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like, Yangtze river?
JS: Yes.
AM: That's all I remember of --
JS: Sure. That sounds good.
AM: -- ninth grade, World History AP.
JS: So, either way, they tend to be sea monsters that have mirage powers associated with that.
AM: Ooh, nice.
JS: So, it's favorite food are swallows, like the bird.
AM: All right.
JS: So, if you eat swallow --
AM: Does it – is it swallow the swallows?
JS: If you eat, swallow, and then go swimming, you're going to be swallowed.
AM: Ahhhh.
JS: Oh, yeah.
AM: It's a Turducken of Dragon delight.
JS: Dragon, humans, swallow.
AM: You get them both at once.
JS: Drahuswallow [25:31].
AM: Are you having a stroke?
JS: No, I'm trying to do turducken. I’m trying... I can't. I can't. I'm dead. I'm dead. You’ve killed me. Oh, no. Okay.
AM: Okay.
JS: We have a podcast to do.
AM: Epic.
JS: From a historical perspective, the word is used for shellfish or mollusk or, basically, any kind of food that you can eat.
AM: Cool.
JS: Because --
AM: Me, personally, similar.
JS: Yes, you personally because you're --
AM: Not you, listening. Human beings can eat shellfish, just not me.
JS: There was actually – later on, they started being associated with funerals. Probably because of just like clams having pearls and like being a sign of royalty. So, actually, there was a member of the government that was in charge of acquiring Shen for parts of like royal sacrifices and funerals.
AM: Oh, interesting. To decorate them with pearls and like do whatever.
JS: Yeah, and then just like there was just a period in Chinese culture where like people were just leaving like clam shells on top of tombs and stuff like that.
AM: I mean, they are – you know, shells are beautiful.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah, I get it.
JS: Yeah. That makes sense. The shells also were associated with purifying and protective powers for the dead.
AM: Nice.
JS: So, that's kind of how it wraps up into that.
AM: I like that.
JS: But still a terrifying clam monster that will eat you if you eat a certain type of bird. Not great.
AM: Yeah. No. I, I don't – I will never eat a swallow, thank you.
AM: And I don't want like a clam to rise up out of – like it's a terrifying image.
JS: Right. Thank you.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Clam rising out of the ocean and can like glump you together.
JS: I want to like watch Jaws, but have the shark replaced with a giant clam because that would --
AM: Because someone could have shoved the shark into a giant clam, “Oh, it's that beautiful giant pearl coming. Noooo!”
JS: That's a pretty good one. So, that's just like a quick oversight of like Chinese demons and spirits and malevolent creatures that I thought were super interesting.
AM: Love it.
JS: There's like a million more, but that's just kind of the ones that float my little boat.
AM: Quick tour. Quick tour.
JS: Quick tour of Chinese demonology and things that go bump in the night.
AM: Like a – it's like a duck boat tour of Chinese mythology --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- of Chinese demonology.
JS: There was a lot of water in there. So, duck quote is --
AM: Your welcome.
Outro
AM: Spirits was created by Julia Schifini and, me, Amanda McLoughlin. It's edited by Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakemans.
JS: Subscribe to Spirits on your preferred podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Tumblr @SpiritsPodcast.
AM: On our Patreon page. patreon.com/spiritspodcast, you can sign up for exclusive content like behind the scenes photos, audio, extras, director's commentary, blooper reels and beautiful recipe cards with custom drink and snack pairings.
JS: If you like the show, please share with your friends and leave us a review on iTunes. It really does help.
AM: Thank you so much for listening, ‘til next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil