Episode 20: Midnight Mary (with Grace McCreight)
/How many times do we have to tell you - Stay out of graveyards! Unless you're into tragic lives, mysterious deaths, and long-lasting urban legends. Our guest Grace McCreight (@lizardtruth_) brings the myth and the wine; we bring pizza recommendations, burial advice, and New England jokes galore. Keep it spooky this Halloween with the legend of Midnight Mary!
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us on Twitter, like us on Facebook, and review us in iTunes to help new listeners find the show. Plus, check out our Patreon for bonus audio content, behind-the-scenes photos, custom recipe cards, and more. We can also be reached at spiritspodcast@gmail.com.
Our music is "Danger Storm" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
Transcript
AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 20: Midnight Mary with Grace McCreight.
JS: Our podcast is at 20 something now.
AM: They grow up so fast.
JS: They grow up so fast.
AM: We hope you liked our bonus episode last week on Jack O' Lanterns. No one has sent us pictures yet of the gourds that they have carved. So, if you have particularly good skills, it can be a pumpkin, it can be a turnip, it can be an acorn squash – who knows – send it over to us on Twitter.
JS: Catherine Addington did send us a really cute felt pumpkin though.
AM: She did. Yeah. I also have those like plastic decorations for my house that are seasonal. That way I don't have to buy actual things.
JS: I have to carve pumpkins for work. And I'm not looking forward to that whatsoever.
AM: Wow. That sounds terrible.
JS: Yeah. It's really bad. Especially since I hate the smell of pumpkin. Pumpkin spice. Yes. Regular pumpkin. Gross.
AM: Actual pumpkin. No.
JS: We have a couple of Twitter shout outs today. Thank you guys for interacting with us on Twitter. We love you guys so much.
AM: I feel like I'm like a grandma who's like you just, just called – just please call. That's how we feel on social media.
JS: Oh, absolutely. Shout out to Eleana Manly, Katie G., Jane Haynes, and Cherry Boy Writer. Thank you guys.
AM: We also want to shout out some new patrons. Ellie McKenna. Sorry Ellie for mispronouncing your name last week. Nancy Thompson, the team at Entwined Podcast, Kelly Quinn, Ross Carter, and Mike Schubert, my friend Schubes, who is the host of the wonderful new show, Potterless – Potterless Podcast.
JS: Guys, it's so good. I had so much fun with it.
AM: Yeah. So, Mike is a 24-year-old man who has never read Harry Potter before, which is kind of amazing in this day and age. And, so, he is going, you know, chapter by chapter through the books like four or five chapters in each episode with guests, who love Harry Potter including the two of us.
JS: Yes. And thanks to our supporting producer, Leanne Davis.
AM: Beautiful as always. Thank you, Leanne.
JS: To join this talented, woody, gorgeous patron, click the link in the show notes or find us on Patreon at patreon.com/SpiritsPodcast. So, we recorded this episode pretty close to when we started launching. So, you may notice us slightly more tangent and our interview process --
AM: A little bit.
JS: -- isn't super great yet.
AM: A little bit less on track than normal.
JS: But it's a perfect Halloween story. So, we couldn't resist, you know --
AM: Sharing it with you.
JS: -- telling it at Halloween.
AM: I know. Well, without further ado, we want to wish you a very happy Halloween and enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 20: Midnight Mary with Grace McCreight.
Intro Music
AM: So, welcome to Spirits with our guest Grace McCreight.
GM: Hello.
AM: We're very excited to have you with us --
GM: I'm very excited to be here.
AM: -- for a local folklore myth from the Northeast of the United States.
JS: We do love the local stuff.
AM: Where we're all from. I didn't say New England because they're very snobby about what's New England and what is not.
JS: I mean is Connecticut technically New England?
GM: It's very, very close.
AM: It's the breadbasket.
JS: Yes.
AM: That totally falls in a category that we had in our history textbooks.
JS: I think Connecticut – it's like Connecticut's the last one before we fall into those like Middle States like Mid-Atlantic.
AM: Middlelands. Yes.
JS: Yes.
AM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
GM: It's before you start getting into that argument of like is New York, New England? No.
JS: No.
AM: Nah.
JS: I think I had a history teacher who like literally like wrote in my paper that like New York is not a New England state. I'm like, "Okay."
AM: Thank you.
JS: Never gonna make that mistake again.
AM: Thank you.
GM: You're not in our club, New York. You can't be part of this.
AM: But for my lovely neighbor, Connecticut.
GM: Yes. So, I grew up in New Haven, Connecticut, which is a very interesting town. I --
JS: Home of my favorite pizza place.
GM: Which one?
JS: Pepe's.
GM: Hey, good choice. That's the right answer.
AM: Of course. You gotta do the white clam pizza. So good.
GM: With the like, because there's a soda.
JS: Oh, fucking yeah. The birch beer one.
GM: Yes!
JS: That's the one we always go for.
GM: I keep – so, this is very off-topic.
JS: Totally.
AM: That's fine.
JS: That's how we roll.
GM: I've been trying to find that ever since I moved to the city. The only place I found that has it is like a deli in Astoria --
JS: Yeah.
GM: -- that I just like walked into. I was like, "Oh, you have for – you have like [inaudible 3:24]."
JS: Some random ass like, you know, place that's just a random deli.
GM: Yeah.
JS: That's like we were talking about at work the other day and someone brought up the idea of celery soda. I'm like, "What the fuck is that?"
GM: What is that?
AM: Wow!
JS: Like you know? Like, Cel-Ray. I'm like, "What the – what the hell is Cel-Ray?" They're like it's celery soda. I'm like, "Who would drink that?" And I think these old neighbors.
GM: I think celery water soda.
AM: Right.
JS: And then I Googled it. And they're like, "Oh, celery soda. It's like very popular in like New York, California, and Florida." I'm like, "Oh, okay." That makes sense. But, anyway, sorry, pizza.
AM: We're, we’re not drinking celery soda.
GM: And, unfortunately, we're not. eating pizza.
AM: We may later, but please tell us --
GM: Yeah. There's always time.
AM: -- tell us what you brought for us to drink today.
GM: So, I wanted to go kind of on theme. I love a theme party. I love theme events.
AM: Great.
GM: And, since I'm going to be talking about some witchy stuff, some pacts, --
AM: Oh, boy.
GM: -- some curses, we are or I am, at least, drinking a velvet devil merlot, which is from Washington. And that is as much as I know about it because I am not a wine connoisseur.
JS: I am though. But it's one of my favorite distributors and favorite brands. They also make a great Riesling called the House Wine, and it's like super, super dope. It's like not too sweet for Riesling and like has some really nice like kind of like stone fruity notes. It's great. Anyway --
GM: I'm glad I made the right choice.
JS: Yes.
AM: Absolutely great.
GM: I picked purely on the name.
AM: Awesome.
JS: So on point.
AM: That’s how you should select wine.
GM: Connecticut is a spooky place to start off with. I really am into the idea of sort of like, New England gothic.
AM: Oh yes.
GM: Where, you know, it's this idea of sort of like a pre-Walden sense of the woods and like the woods are a place of darkness and, and attack, and, and it's a place where --
AM: Right.
GM: -- you know? The like, American colonists started out and, you know, have this like great fear of the woods. And, also -
AM: Yeah. Threats of violence.
GM: -- this like intense religious anxiety.
AM: Yes, of course.
GM: Yeah. So, I think like --
AM: It's unknowable, right?
GM: Oh, yeah.
AM: It's not like --
JS: So, creepy.
AM: Imagine the like the temerity of somebody to walk into the woods and say, "This is where I will find myself." Like until --
JS: Like, no, terrible idea.
AM: Right. Like until the kind of Waldenization, right --
GM: Yeah.
AM: -- the RomanticizatioN of nature with the capital R and N, the words were a source of, you know, people went missing. Attacks came from nowhere.
JS: Bring your gun because you're probably going to die if you go into the woods.
GM: Yeah.
AM: Hide yo kids. Hide yo wives.
JS: Yes. Not kind of creepy, kind of cool. Just creepy.
AM: It's just creepy.
GM: It's super creepy. It's just not fun.
AM: Super creepy. Super creepy.
GM: The devil definitely lives there. I don't know if you saw The Witch, but like very much like a sense of that.
JS: So good.
GM: So good.
JS: Amanda didn't see The Witch.
AM: Nope. I'm just sitting here quietly.
JS: So, like Puritan family gets banished. I don't remember exactly what happened.
GM: Yeah.
JS: But like some --
AM: Where they Quakers or Puritans?
JS: Puritans.
GM: Puritans.
AM: Okay.
GM: And, for some reason, they're like, let's set up shop literally on the edge of the scary woods that no one's ever been into.
AM: Nope.
JS: Yeah. So --
AM: So, the property values were lower, which I can understand.
GM: Yeah.
AM: Understandable.
JS: So, like – and then like, shit goes down and like --
GM: Yeah.
JS: -- everyone, everyone blames everyone for all the shit that goes down.
AM: Classic.
JS: And then like they go against each other.
AM: Classic.
JS: And like everyone's speaking to the devil. The woods aren’t good.
AM: Basically, the woods brings out the worst in us.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Right.
GM: Yes, it does. Wrapping that all backup, like, yeah, Connecticut's a spooky place. I think. It's like it still remains that kind of like weird sense of like beginnings of America because you know --
AM: Oh, yeah.
GM: -- especially in New Haven because a lot of the buildings are like from when Yale was first built.
AM: Yeah.
GM: And they're old. Some of them are like purposefully made to look really old because they wanted it to look like Cambridge, which is in 1600.
AM: Classic.
JS: Right.
AM: Classic Colonial America.
GM: Yeah.
AM: Let’s make --
JS: Are we talking Boston Cambridge or like regular Cambridge?
GM: Like no – like --
AM: OG Cambridge.
GM: -- normal Cambridge.
JS: My go-to is my hometown. My [Inaudible 7:27].
AM: Your hometown. Your adopted hometown.
JS: My adopted hometown.
AM: Yeah.
JS: That was a mess.
AM: Classic America. Like, let's not be – right. Let's not only name everything after good old mother England but also make it look --
GM: Make it look like it.
AM: -- Greco-Roman revival sort of townhouses and whatever.
GM: It was like to the point where like when they built Yale, they were burying the roof tiles in like the dirt on the beach.
JS: Oh, shit. To make it look aged?
GM: Yeah. To make them look aged.
JS: That’s so cool! I love that!
AM: What? They were just like, “I want it to look like 300 years old.”
AM: Original hipsters.
GM: Yeah.
JS: Oh, my god.
AM: Distressed roof tiles.
GM: Yeah.
JS: So, over $200 a title – a tile.
AM: A tile.
GM: There was actually a building where they like poured acid down the side of it to make it look old, but they made it structurally unstable. So, they had to tear it down and build it again.
AM: Wow.
JS: Assholes.
AM: Wow. That's amazing.
GM: It’s like, “Really? You care this much about it.” Like --
AM: New England, man.
GM: -- Cambridge isn't gonna respect you even if you look old timey.
AM: You're in the new world.
JS: Your town's name is literally New Haven.
GM: New Haven.
JS: Get your shit together.
GM: They are all Haven. Don't think you are.
AM: Right? Embrace it. Embrace it.
GM: In New Haven, there are like surprise – and unsurprisingly a lot of cemeteries. There are some that are just like in the heart of downtown. And there are some that are sort of farther on the suburbs.
AM: Yeah.
GM: And there are a bunch that are just like paved over and, you know? Buried by modern construction.
JS: And, as we know from Poltergeist, never a good thing.
GM: Not a great idea.
JS: Amanda hasn't seen that one yet.
AM: Nope.
GM: Oh, you're, you're --
AM: I am so much ahead of some people.
JS: Been waiting for that audio extra, folks.
AM: I did though – I did go to school at NYU, which the campus is Washington Square Park in Downtown Manhattan, which is a literal potter's field --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- where they just poured in, you know? Barrow – wheelbarrow-fulls, the bodies of peoples too poor to afford actual burials.
JS: Bodies on bodies on bodies.
AM: Yes. Recently, as in like six months ago, they were expand – they were kind of renovating a section of the park. And they sort of done it in pizza slices, you know?
GM: [inaudible 9:20] So that most of the park remains open, and, however, underneath this pizza slice was a literal mausoleum. And, so, they're --
GM: Oh, my god.
AM: -they’re, it was a really interesting question of like, you know, do we explore this hallway and crypt further potentially damaging the bodies and like unleashing spiritual havoc. Like a --
JS: Oh, I see. Yes, do that because I want to see the film rights for that.
AM: Right. Right. Right. I too want to see the French catacomb. Like I want to – I want to see the excitement of it.
JS: Yeah yeah.
AM: And I guess, on this day, you could just send a little BB-8 robot with a little camera on its head. You know, to see it.
JS: And do a movie. Yeah.
AM: But the official city policy is, as soon as we hit bodies, we back up and rebury it.
JS: Is that really real the policy?
AM: Serious. That is really the policy.
JS: I like that, but like I don't like that.
AM: I know. I know.
GM: It's very respectful.
AM: But like also --
JS: But also I want that like modern-day Indiana Jones, right?
AM: Right.
JS: Yeah.
AM: It's like – it's like in a movie where you – it's like a horror movie where you're seeing the prelude like the woman's hope chest or something like contains something creepy. She goes, "Let me just ignore that forever.” and then, 30 years later, in the attic, you know, there's some kind of creepy shit starting.
JS: What movie are you thinking of?
AM: A general movie.
JS: Okay.
AM: Like isn't Jumanji about a children's game that goes wrong?
JS: Yes. But they dumped it in the river afterward.
AM: No. That's smart. That's smart.
JS: And then they uncover it because they dig it out of the river.
AM: Yeah. Or, like --
JS: It's like literally unbury – unburied like the bodies in Washington Square Park.
AM: Yeah. Or, like any movie where they're like, "This thing is creepy." Puts it in the closet. Forty years later, like, it comes back to wreak havoc.
JS: All right. All right.
GM: I feel like that's kind of like the beginning of Cabin in the Woods, where they're like --
JS: True.
GM: -- looking at all the artifacts. And they're like, "Oh, what is this like mysterious old thing?"
JS: Or, like The Evil Dead.
GM: And then say the inscription.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Yeah.
GM: It seems like [Inaudible 10:53].
AM: Read it three times. No, please don't.
GM: Na-ah.
JS: Okay. Like straight up, we haven't gotten to your myth at all.
GM: Okay.
AM: I'm so sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead.
GM: No problem.
AM: Go ahead.
GM: So, many cemeteries in New Haven. One of which is Evergreen. It's located on sort of like the southwest side of town. It is about a mile from the house where I grew up. And, so, we heard a lot of stories about it. And it was sort of like, you know, as cemeteries tend to be kind of a teen hangout sometimes.
AM: Of course.
JS: Also, I've noticed that like a lot of cemeteries have like tree-related names.
GM: Oh, yeah.
AM: Yes.
GM: There's so many Evergreens and like Willows.
JS: Like Pine Crest is the one that's on an island.
AM: Yes.
JS: It's like the really big one and just like --
AM: Greenwood. Pine Brook. Oh, yeah.
JS: You know, continuing to live on. I'm like, not really the point of it, but okay.
AM: I kind of appreciate the subliminal messaging.
JS: Yeah. A little bit.
GM: I like becoming a tree.
AM: Yeah.
GM: It's kind of poetic.
AM: So, what's up in your Evergreen Cemetery?
GM: So, in our generically named cemetery, there is one headstone that gets a lot more attention than all the rest of them. It's sort of like a, a pink granite. I first knew about it because of sort of like a – you know, that, that middle school storyteller --
AM: Oh, yeah.
GM: -- where you explore.
AM: Bloody Mary or whatever.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
GM: Bloody Mary, that kind of thing. And there actually is like an interactive element to this. It's the story of Midnight Mary, not Bloody Mary.
AM: Love it.
JS: Always a Mary though.
GM: Yeah.
AM: Great start.
JS: This is a go-to Christian name.
GM: Yeah. I guess everybody was like a Mary or a Joan or something.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Well –
GM: Oh, no. It’s a good point.
AM: Generic. What I'm saying. Yeah,
GM: So, Mary lived in the early 19th century. She was just a hard-working woman, who lived in Connecticut her whole life. She was a New Haven resident her whole life.
AM: Nice.
GM: You know, nothing exceptional. But, one day in 1872, she just fell into a coma.
AM: Oh, no.
GM: And, out of nowhere, like --
JS: Was it the Wasting Disease?
AM: Because that's what everyone had back then.
GM: She just turned pale.
JS: Consumption. Consumption.
AM: Tuberculosis if you want to get technological.
GM: Late-stage consumption.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Sudden-onset consumption.
GM: And, so, her family called for a doctor. They checked her out. She wasn't waking up. And then, at exactly midnight, they couldn't sense her breathing anymore.
JS: No!
AM: They put a feather over her mouth, and they didn't see it wiggling.
JS: It’s the mirror.
AM: Right. Oh, damn it.
JS: The mirror under the nose. The mirror would fog.
AM: Goddamn it. I'm sorry.
JS: Yeah.
GM: I mean they did everything you do at that point.
AM: Right.
GM: Bury her.
JS: You just [Inaudible 13:22].
GM: Yeah. And, in going through Mary's quarters, and, you know, getting rid of all of her stuff, they found all of these strange charms.
AM: Ohhh.
JS: Oh, no, Mary.
GM: Some weird bundles and a book that no one could read.
JS: Most suspicious of all.
AM: Grimoire.
GM: Don't keep that in your real home.
AM: Like women, women reading is suspicious enough.
GM: Yeah. Let's not – let's not [Inaudible 13:46] to that.
JS: Having a creepy one and has a bunch of spells in it.
AM: Exactly.
JS: Hmm. Not so much.
AM: Secondly, being in a foreign tongue. No good.
GM: This whole story is very suspect also because no one in Connecticut had been accused of being a witch for like straight up 200 years at the time.
JS: Well, that's Connecticut.
AM: Yeah. She's bringing it back.
JS: They had other shit to do.
GM: Yeah. She's bringing problems. And, so, you know, after they discover all of this, the family kind of hushes it up. They don't talk about it very much.
JS: As one does.
AM: Naturally.
GM: Why would you do that?
AM: Don't air your shame.
JS: Yeah. Protect that honor of the family.
AM: Being New England during the Period.
GM: A great way to never get invited to a wedding ever again. But her sister kept having these dreams about Mary though, which is like very violent of her sister like screaming in this dark room.
JS: No!
AM: Oh.
GM: And, eventually, she thought, you know, this is a sign from beyond the grave.
AM: Right, obviously.
GM: And they excavated her grave, and they found her face like contorted into this like horrible grimace.
AM: Oh, my god.
JS: No. Scratch marks.
GM: And scratch marks.
JS: Scratch marks!
AM: Right, it’s my favorite!
GM: And they had buried her alive --
JS: Yes!
GM: -- which is the biggest nightmare.
JS: Totally.
AM: Oh, my god.
JS: So, I've done like a lot of like research on like that kind of shit where it's like they bury people alive, and like they thought they were vampires or something like that. And like, like they want us – like a lot of researchers say that it was like people who had diabetes and went to like, diabetic shock.
GM: Oh, my god.
AM: Oh, shit.
JS: And then they bury those people. And they like wake up from a diabetic shock like naturally.
AM: This is like, "Oh, no.”
GM: Right.
JS: And they're like, "Shit. Fuck."
AM: Did you know George Washington, our first and greatest president --
GM: Yes.
JS: [Inaudible 15:20], but yes.
AM: That's based purely on Chris Jackson's depiction of him.
JS: Yes, absolutely.
AM: Waited two days per his instructions in like his family estate. He was like, "Hey, servants, some of whom are slaves and problematic, wait two days after I die to bury me."
GM: Oh, yeah.
JS: Like, “Please make sure I'm dead.”
AM: I fully expressly --
GM: I would expect him to do that.
AM: -- expressly in his will.
JS: I would put that on my will.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
JS: I would put that in my will. Like I do not want it – like that's like a shit show.
GM: Potential --
AM: Put you on ice. Let you age a little bit more or [inaudible 15:46]
JS: Oh, but like --
GM: Yeah.
JS: I feel like, in modern culture, that's not as big a deal because like they cut you open like – and do --
GM: Yeah, they would know.
AM: Right.
GM: They are certain. Yeah.
JS: Like they just --
AM: Also like medical testing, right?
JS: Yeah.
GM: Oh, yeah.
JS: Like they have to do that shit now. That's --
AM: Yeah. Well, that's terrifying and my worst nightmare.
GM: Yeah.
JS: Thank you for that.
GM: So, I do have a tangential story about --
AM: Tell us.
JS: We love them. Go ahead.
GM: So, one of my like, family legends is that my grandpa grew up in like very rural Georgia in the 20s in the Depression, and there was someone in their family or someone in their community – I don't really remember – who had died and they were holding a wake for this person. And my grandpa like, as a little 12-year-old boy or whatever, had the night shift.
AM: Oh, boy.
JS: Also, I love there's shifts [Inaudible16:30].
GM: Yeah.
AM: Night watch. Right.
GM: He's just alone in a room.
JS: Like – but that's not a thing nowadays. You know what I mean?
AM: Well, it's not – yeah. Not a thing in our tradition, but Jewish tradition, for example --
JS: No. Yes. You still do shifts.
AM: -- they still --
GM: Have the body.
JS: Right.
GM: And I think that's like very important as a way to like process grief and whatever.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Yeah.
GM: You know, he was alone as this little boy in this room with the body. And --
AM: Oh, my god.
GM: -- somehow rigor mortis set in. And the body sat up --
JS: Nooo!
AM: Noo!
JS: Oh, no.
AM: Oh, my god.
GM: And, so, the body sat up while he was in the room.
JS: That's like so like really convenient rigor mortis to like --
GM: Yeah.
AM: Right.
JS: Like the body should be stiff. There's no reason to go whoosh.
GM: Oh, yeah.
AM: I mean – I mean can this --
GM: I have no idea how much this was elaborated through the --
AM: So, that's true.
GM: Yeah.
AM: I mean – but like, ugh --
JS: That's not good.
AM: That's so scarring.
GM: No. I'm sure it like move a little bit. And, in he's like --
AM: Oh, yeah.
GM: -- child's mind, that turned into like --
AM: Of course.
GM: -- and then it stood up and danced away. And like --
JS: Like the devil went into the body and started dancing.
AM: Any amount of movement in a dead body is like, extreme.
GM: No joke.
JS: It's too much movement.
GM: Oh, yeah.
AM: Exactly.
GM: Not okay with it.
AM: Wow.
GM: Yeah.
AM: So, what happened to Mary's body? What did they think and do?
GM: So, they realized obviously Mary was a witch from all of the stuff.
AM: Right. That's all –that's the only thing that explains it.
GM: And, so, you know? they re-buried her. Obviously, typical New England, you keep hushing it up. You don't talk about your witch sister that you buried alive by accident.
JS: No. No. No.
AM: I was just going to say I'm surprised they didn't burn her. But I get it. I get why --
JS: Because she's dead already.
GM: Yeah.
JS: Like – yeah.
GM: It's only like a metropolitan area. It's a little hard to burn people.
AM: Right. Like you want to bury your shame and not air it for the community to see.
JS: Literally air it.
AM: Yes. Yeah.
JS: Though, if you look at like vampire myth that came over like during that like time period in the Americas, what they would do is they would like cut out the like heart and like liver or whatever --
AM: Oh, yeah.
JS: -- and burn those. And then like that – then everything would be okay.
AM: But, you know, she's dead. No more clawing.
GM: Yeah. She's dead.
JS: She wasn't making anyone else die.
GM: She's definitely dead at this point.
AM: Right.
JS: So, I think that's okay.
GM: Well --
JS: Well, hold on.
AM: The threat has been contained.
AM: So, they think.
GM: So, they think contained.
JS: Ha-ha-ha.
GM: So, the – so, it's kind of this like neighborhood rite of passage to visit Mary's grave at midnight. Partially, because she died at midnight and, partially, because her grave says, "At high noon just from and about to renew her daily work. In her full strength of body and mind, Mary E. Hart, having fallen prostrate, remained unconscious until she died at midnight, October 15, 1872." And, above that, in sort of like an arch of letters --
AM: Yeah.
GM: -- says, "The people shall be troubled at midnight and pass away," which is a line from Job. And this makes sense in the context of Job of like, you know, you have suffered for the Lord and in that kind of – you know?
AM: Right.
GM: But everyone – the legend around this was, obviously, if you stand on her grave at midnight, you're gonna die.
JS: Because ain't nobody got time to figure out what Job is talking about.
AM: Teenagers.
GM: No. Job is a sad book to start off with.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
JS: It's not, you know --
AM: Teenagers are like, “Forget the spiritual connotations.”
JS: It's just midnight. We''re gonna suffer. We should go hang out or whatever.
GM: It's too bad.
AM: Wow. And, also, how Puritan to make your epitaph. She was working really hard and then, all of a sudden died.
GM: And then she just died.
JS: And then she was in a coma, and then she died.
AM: She tried really hard. But, right, like against all odds --
GM: Yeah.
AM: -- she sadly died.
GM: Oh, yeah. And, so, like it's a thing where you go to her grave at midnight especially on Halloween.
AM: Cool.
GM: Obviously.
JS: I would do it like on October 16th or whatever you just said.
GM: Yeah.
AM: Yes.
JS: Because like wouldn't that be more exciting? Why do you have to go on Halloween?
GM: Just October.
AM: Every night of October, that's the best way to do it.
GM: Yes.
JS: Every goddamn night. I don't care if it's a Tuesday. I don't care if you have like a midterm tomorrow.
GM: You just go at the grave every night.
AM: Exactly.
GM: You better be there.
AM: Town meeting.
GM: So, the – like the sort of legend that grew up around it was, you know, you don't stand on this grave, but, obviously, you do.
AM: Right.
GM: And, apparently, in the mid-’80s, New Haven was a very different kind of place than it is now.
AM: Yeah.
GM: It had a lot of the like urban blight that a lot of places did. And, so, the extension of the story is that there were a bunch of teenagers driving around the cemetery, and they managed to hit her grave and crack it.
JS: Oh, bad.
AM: Yeah.
GM: And, one by one, every seven years on the anniversary of that day, they each one – they died one by one.
JS: No bueno. How many people were there so like we can map out like which one was the last one to die?
GM: So, there were three.
JS: Okay. So --
AM: So, we would have had like [Inaudible 20:58] of those.
GM: We were at 1980 – '87.
AM: Right. '87.
JS: '94
GM: '94.
AM: 01.
JS: '01.
GM: '01.
JS: Okay. That works.
GM: So, pretty recent. But, you know --
AM: Still.
GM: -- You know it's coming for you. It's like Final Destination.
AM: Exactly.
JS: Or, like, you know, like the Mummy's Curse or like shit like that.
AM: Yeah,
JS: It'd be like, "Oh, shit."
AM: Wow!
GM: And it's your time coming.
JS: I'm gonna get eaten by scarabs.
AM: Right. Or, when there's two of you left, which is not you don't have --
JS: Oh, yeah. I'd be like --
GM: Oh, yeah.
JS: I'd be like I will push you in front of a truck or whatever. Everybody like, I'm not dying first.
AM: But then some kind of shit happen where like the person will be bypassed by the truck and then you would then be hit --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- by someone swerving away from the truck.
JS: Probably.
AM: I know how myths work Julia.
JS: Damn.
AM: You can't change the timeline.
GM: You can't just – you can't just make it work for you.
JS: No.
AM: No. No. No.
GM: That's not how it works.
AM: That's pretty eerie, dude.
GM: Yeah, and I was an indoor kid. So, I never actually did this.
JS: Like, Amanda.
AM: We're the – we're all compatriots. So, it's fine.
JS: I wasn't – no. I was an outdoor kid.
AM: You were. You were.
GM: We like – we were bookish.
AM: Right.
GM: We were smart.
AM: We're both fair-skinned.
GM: Yeah. We can't just be going outside all the time.
AM: No. No. No. Please.
JS: I did lulabelle shit, and I will tell you about that story at some point. But --
AM: I don't know what you're referencing.
GM: What is this all about?
JS: That's the – that's the Oakdale Tailypo story basically.
AM: Wow.
GM: Yeah.
JS: We'll tell – we'll talk about that later.
GM: Yeah. That's pretty much the end of it.
AM: I don't know what you're talking about. So, what is the modern state of this myth?
GM: So, this is pretty much – I mean what I told you is pretty much the modern state of the myth. I left Connecticut when I was 18, and this was still sort of the version that I've been hearing. I did – I did a little bit of like digging into sort of the like Atlas Obscura --
AM: Yeah.
GM: -- page for this, and it seems like it's still pretty much the same thing.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Wow.
GM: It kind of varies like sort of was it, you know, a group of teenagers, was it a group of – a group of someone like driving drunk who hit the --
AM: Yeah.
GM: -- the stone, and, apparently, they did actually repair her headstone at some point, which is probably where that came from.
JS: Probably.
GM: And --
JS: Also like were they driving through the cemetery or is the whole thing like --
GM: I like to drive in the cemetery.
JS: -- it's just very close to like the edge of the cemetery, and they like go through a fence.
AM: I mean some of the – some of the headstones are close to the road.
JS: Right. Yeah.
AM: Often, there's curbs.
JS: Well, I mean like --
AM: Right.
JS: -- if there's like a fence or something. Like they drove through it and hit her headstone. Like I would understand that.
AM: Yeah.
JS: But I mean it's like in the middle of the cemetery.
GM: It's just like the car --
JS: That's a whole different story.
GM: -- like gets air and lands only on that one.
AM: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
JS: Over the fence. Straight into the headstone. I think that's pretty solid.
AM: Yes. That's pretty – that's pretty scary though. Like imagine if, you know, you were just in a late-night, you know, whatever – skidding accident in a cemetery for whatever reason, doing whatever you want to do in the car. And, and then you look and see which headstone you hit and, oh, shit, it's the one witch in the cemetery.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That's great.
JS: Also, I'm pretty sure you'd like wouldn't be keeping tabs on like who's the witches in the cemetery.
AM: No. I know. As I thought that --
GM: Just keep an eye on the one witch.
AM: -- I was like the last thing that I would do is look at what headstone it was. I would just drive away immediately.
GM: It's like no. The worrisome thing of me as like a very like sheltered teenager especially knowing the story, not fully believing it, but like kind of being a little too into spooky stuff to fully discount it.
AM: Yeah. Why, why would you risk it?
GM: Oh, yeah. I had friends who would like, hook up in the cemetery.
JS: No!
GM: I was like, "No, don't do it." Like, first --
JS: Also like a cemetery is the least sexy --
GM: Not cool.
JS: -- place to be.
AM: Slash, if you happen to you know conceive an accidental pregnancy or an unplanned pregnancy --
GM: How do you explain that?
AM: Demon baby. Come on people!
GM: Oh yeah.
AM: There’s no better way.
JS: Also, you totally have to name it after the person who you had sex --
AM: So, gross.
JS: -- like grave on.
GM: Yeah.
JS: Like whatever that headstone name is like it's like, you know, Prudence Gladwell, you're naming that child Prudence Gladwell. I don't care who you are. I don't really care.
GM: This is my daughter, Goodwife Samstone.
AM: Exactly. Yeah. Goody, Goody whatever Brown.
JS: Goody Proctor.
GM: Oh, Goody Proctor.
AM: I just saw The Crucible on Broadway, guys
JS: So wild, dude.
GM: Oh, my god, I'm so jealous.
AM: Yeah. But also like, you know, teenagers with power, you know. And like – and making myths and worldview out of whatever they have.
JS: You like – you solidly watched like two really morbid plays in a row.
GM: The Crucible and --
JS: Oh, we saw American Psycho on Monday --
AM: Okay.
GM: That's a --
JS: -- which was like --
GM: Intense experience.
AM: Kind of.
JS: Going back to cemetery stuff, there's a great like – not story but like, historical reference in Boston, where, for a really long time, there was a lot of like – not grave robbing, but like, like headstones disappeared. And, so, they like – they couldn't figure out where they --
AM: That's grave robbing.
JS: I mean, yes. But it's not like --
GM: Somebody targeting the graves.
JS: -- it's not like really like peeling jewelry off dead bodies.
AM: It's like grave larceny.
JS: Okay, sure, and they like couldn't figure out where these – you know, like these marble tablets were going that are the gravestones until they --
AM: Because what's it gonna become? Like a single bathroom vanity?
JS: Right. Well, until they figured out some guy like bought a like thing a bread and notice that there were words --
AM: Oh, no.
JS: -- on the bottom of the bread. Bakers and like pizza guys were stealing them to use in their ovens.
GM: Oh, my god.
AM: Wow.
JS: -- to like – and then you just like, you know – like, you know? Some 1700s gravestones were being used to cook pizza.
AM: It's like a charcoal etching-
JS: Oh, my god.
AM: -but in bread.
JS: So, you order like pizza to go and there was just like, you know, Goody Proctor – here lies Goody Proctor --
AM: Oh, no.
JS: -- died in 1789.
GM: Just like a little hint of a ghosting.
JS: And like --
AM: I'd be down. Ghost pizza --
JS: And, if you – if you look at the --
AM: -- looks so good.
JS: -- the like 1700s gravestones, they all have like – the like skulls and crossbones because that was very like the Puritan Protestant thing at that point.
AM: Yeah.
JS: It's like that was like their ideal of apocalypticism. It's like embrace the death that's coming to you and make it beautiful.
AM: Sure.
JS: So, like you just see like, you know, flowers and skulls and then like the name of the person who died on your – on the bottom of your pizza.
AM: Amazing.
JS: So like – it's just like it's just so on point. I love it.
GM: That is amazing.
AM: That is amazing.
JS: It's so good.
AM: New England Gothic, gotta love it.
JS: Gotta love that New England Gothic.
GM: A little like at the bottom of your like New Haven style burnt pizza.
JS: Love it.
AM: Wow. Bringing it back around to pizza guys. Good job.
GM: Like a motif there.
JS: Yeah. That coal-fire pizza from Pepe's. Go visit.
AM: Yeah!
GM: It's so good.
JS: Oh, so good.
GM: The line is worth it.
JS: That clam pizza.
GM: Fuck Sally's.
JS: Fuck Sally's!
Outro
AM: Spirits was created by Julia Schifini and me, Amanda McLoughlin. It's edited by Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
JS: Subscribe to Spirits on your preferred podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Tumblr @SpiritsPodcast.
AM: On our Patreon page, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, you can sign up for exclusive content like behind the scenes photos, audio, extras, director's commentary, blooper reels and beautiful recipe cards with custom drink and snack pairings.
JS: If you like the show, please share with your friends and leave us a review on iTunes. It really does help.
AM: Thank you so much for listening, ‘til next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil