Episode 21: Medusa and the Gorgons
/What makes a monster? This week, we take a well-known myth and turn it on its (snake) head. Everyone knows Medusa’s image and ability to turn people to stone, but we dive into her tragic origins and fearsome legacy. Also featuring translation issues, our favorite fictional pigs, and the do’s and don'ts of Greek dating.
Our first ever sponsor is Central Curios! Listener Aaron produces gorgeous, handmade, one-of-a-kind wands that all come with certificates explaining that wand’s unique lore. Check him out on Instagram @CentralCurios, and send him a message on his website to place an order. Mention Spirits for 10% off!
And as mentioned, here are some deeply cool dinosaur skull earrings. Let’s all wear 3D-printed skull jewelry.
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us on Twitter, like us on Facebook, and review us in iTunes to help new listeners find the show. Plus, check out our Patreon for bonus audio content, behind-the-scenes photos, custom recipe cards, and more. We can also be reached at spiritspodcast@gmail.com.
Our music is "Danger Storm" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
Transcript
Amanda McLoughlin: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 21: Medusa and the Gorgons, what a cool band name that would be!
Julia Schifini: You and your band names.
AM: The Soggy Bottoms.
JS: Oh, god.
AM: Oh, okay. Fine. Sorry.
JS: Speaking of which, thanks for coming through with your gourds people! It was a super fun Halloween week. And we were trading links and spooky stories. And you can find them all on Twitter and our Facebook.
AM: I know, we just love it when new listeners say hi to us on Twitter and Facebook and email. Let's spread the love people. How about this week I have a challenge for you, recommend Spirits to one friend just one – one person.
JS: One person.
AM: One person. That's it. That's all we ask.
JS: The Amanda to your Julia.
AM: The snake hair to your Medusa?
JS: Okay, whatever you say.
AM: Moving on, we started a new audio extra mini-series last week over on our Patreon. I flipped the script and I teach Julia about some of my favorite mythology-related poems.
JS: It was weird, but like super fun. If you want to share your own stories, your anecdotes, related reading, you can always email us at spiritspodcast@gmail.com.
AM: And special thanks to our newest patron Paul Sating over at patreon.com/SpiritsPodcast and our Supporting Producer-level Patron, LeeAnn Davis.
JS: Her beautiful, unique snowflake mermaid.
AM: Love it.
JS: We are also super happy you guys to introduce to you our very first sponsor!
AM: We are so legit, Julia. I’m so excited, and it’s such a great sponsor.
JS: It’s really good.
AM: So, Central Curious is a wandmaking business owned by Aaron, who is a Spirits listener. Hello, Aaron.
JS: Thank you, Aaron.
AM: Every handmade wand that he makes – it’s real wood. It’s naturally finished, and it’s totally unique to the buyer. Every single one.
JS: And what’s super, super is that, in addition to having a beautiful, gorgeous wand, each wand comes with a certificate of authenticity and has some really cool wand lore built into it. AM: Yeah. It’s like the mythology of the wood in the wand and what it’s feeling like. You know, all of that.
JS: It’s basically like going to Ollivander’s. Every wand is unique, has a personality, and is made specifically for you.
AM: You should absolutely check out these gorgeous wands on Instagram @centralcurios. The link is going to be in the show notes. And, to get one of your own --
JS: Or, to order a holiday gift for your best friend, hmm hmmmmm hmmm?
AM: Duly noted, Jules. You can send Aaron a message at centralcurios.com. If you mention Spirits in your email, you can get 10% off your custom wand order.
JS: Thank you so much, Aaron, for being our first sponsor!
AM: We love you. Just final thing, as a heads-up, we do mention sexual assault in this episode. So, take care if that is a sensitive subject for you. And, now, Spirits Podcast Episode 21: Medusa and the Gorgons.
Intro Music
JS: So, I've been thinking a lot about monsters lately, and just sort of what constitutes a monster. Like, when does something become powerful enough that we begin to fear it regardless of how we [2:45] got that power? And the first story that comes to mind, because you know me, I do love the Greeks --
AM: You do.
JS: -- is the story of Medusa. So --
AM: The snake-haired lady.
JS: Yes.
AM: That's all I know.
JS: So, settle back, Amanda. I'm going to tell you the story of Medusa and how she became a monster.
AM: I'm excited to hear that. And you know, Julie, that I love a good monster origin story.
JS: I know you do.
AM: I love the like antihero who used to be innocent or the, you know, villain who turns out to have human motivations because we all do it.
JS: Yes.
AM: I'm, I'm down for that.
JS: Okay. I should note before we get started that the story is originally the Ovid story. And there are other stories about how Medusa was born a monster. And they're not nearly as interesting, or in-depth, or interesting to talk about. It's certainly not entertaining.
AM: We strive to bring you only the best.
JS: So, Medusa. Medusa was originally a beautiful maiden. She had a bunch of lovers kind of Psyche style where everyone's like lining up to --
AM: Excellent.
JS: -- win her favor. She was really, really beautiful, but, the most notable part of her, she had this really beautiful blonde curly hair. Like, Ovid makes a point of talking about her hair.
AM: How notable it was.
JS: Yes.
AM: Yeah. I guess, when there wasn't photography, you just had to be like "Hey, yo, bro, there's this girl." You know, like --
JS: She's got some blonde hair.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Like, super hot.
AM: You really – you really had to like notice features about a person to discuss them in detail.
JS: Uhmm. So, she was so beautiful that she attracted the attention of Poseidon, the Sea god.
AM: Uh-uh.
JS: Never a good thing. You don't want to attract the attention of gods --
AM: Never a good thing.
JS: -- no matter how hot you are I guess and how nice a god they are.
AM: Or, how legendary in bed or not they might be.
JS: Right. Psyche won out okay with Eros, but had to go through all of that shit.
AM: She went through some legendary shit.
JS: Right.
AM: Literally.
JS: And we all think it’s good.
AM: We have a legend about it now. Her journey was so crazy that we now tell these stories, but especially the Sea god, people. Like have we not learned what a lovable fuck boy Maui was? Have we not learned to help everyone Zeus is friends with apparently is like the most complicated person ever to like? Also, there – you know, my dad told me once out of nowhere, "Amanda, never fall in love with a sailor." And I was like --
JS: Oh, Brian.
AM: -- thanks dad.
JS: [5:08] Pinpointing Brian, but okay.
AM: Just – you know, just helpful life advice, but never fall in love with a Sea god, people.
JS: It's just a bad idea in general. So, Poseidon, he decides to approach her. Medusa is --
AM: Question. Is he dripping wet while he does it?
JS: I imagine so.
AM: Is he – I, I have this image of him as – I – actually, I think this is a little mermaid. I'm getting confused. Julia is just burying her face in her head.
JS: Oh, no.
AM: Not sure what's coming next. You never know with me. Anyway, I have an image of him as like half – as like a merman with a Trident.
JS: He's not a merman.
AM: That's Little Mermaid, isn't it?
JS: Well , okay. So, he looks like Triton from The Little Mermaid except full human body.
AM: Oh, what does he – like does he live underwater?
JS: Yeah. He's the ocean god.
AM: Is it in like – is it in like a Squirrel girl from SpongeBob style like air pocket?
JS: Well, I don't know. Not important to the story.
AM: Okay. Okay. I just – I really care about the logistics of undersea cities.
JS: We'll talk about Atlantis sometime, and we can discuss that.
AM: Okay. Fuck I love that movie.
JS: Okay. Poseidon approaches her.
AM: Okay.
JS: She's praying in the Temple of Athena.
AM: Awesome.
JS: Just what you do.
AM: You know, if we've taught you anything, listeners, you always pray to Athena. You always venerate Athena.
JS: Well, we'll reexamine that after the story happens.
AM: Oh, wait. But who was the one who – who they said they were as beautiful as her? Aphrodite.
JS: Yes.
AM: Oh, yeah. No. A named Greek goddesses, don't fuck with them.
JS: They're all A names except Hara and Hestia.
AM: Good. Venerate them. Cover your bases.
JS: So, she's praying in Athena's temple. Poseidon comes on to her. She denies him.
AM: Okay.
JS: He proceeds to rape her on the altar.
AM: Ugh.
JS: Yeah. Not, not great. Not super awesome. You would think in this situation, Athena, who is a virgin goddess, who was the goddess of war and wisdom --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- would be pissed at Poseidon for this.
AM: Yeah.
JS: She blames the situation on Medusa and blames her for desecrating her sanctuary.
AM: Okay. So, some classic victim-blaming, you know.
JS: Yeah. It's – this whole thing is like hardcore victim-blaming.
AM: Not excusing it, but we do have this template for understanding the behavior. You know, like we – it's not like inexplicable. Like, at least, we kind of have a framework for saying, "Oh, I – this is the kind of situation that's going on."
JS: Yeah. It's just frustrating. So, as punishment, Athena turns Medusa his beautiful hair – you know, the beautiful golden hair that everyone was such a fan of.
AM: I knew – I knew that shit was doomed the minute you said it.
JS: She turns it into living poisonous snakes. She also gives her this destructive power that anyone who looks directly at Medusa turns to stone.
AM: And is the idea like, oh, you like the attention of men. Now, see what that will get you?
JS: Yeah.
AM: Cool. I mean not cool, but I get it.
JS: Super – no. Super victim-blaming and gross as hell. Athena actually is so proud of the punishment that she gave Medusa. She uses Medusa's image on her breastplate armor in order to strike fear into her enemies. So, their mouths are open, fangs bared, and their tongues are always sticking out.
AM: Okay.
JS: Interestingly, this is an image that's usually used to ward off evil and not just in Greece. Similar images are used in China on soldiers’ shields.
AM: Really?
JS: And, in Hindu mythology, the Goddess Kali, who's a destruction goddess, she is always shown with a protruding tongue and snakes in her head.
AM: That's badass. And, and sort of the, the like open mouth, you know, tongue out, is that just because it's scarier?
JS: I think it's because it's scarier, but also it's sort of in defiance and not the norm. So, if you just had like a stony expression --
AM: That's beautiful, Jules. Yeah.
JS: -- someone's face that wouldn't be nearly as intimidating as is for crazed or weird expression.
AM: Oh, yeah. No. Head full of snakes that could bite you at literally any moment or their mid bite, you know, like I --
JS: I love that.
AM: I love that too. And it's, it's really applicable too to the sort of like, you know, gaze turning someone to stone immediately when they see you because like that snake is ready to strike at all times.
JS: Another interesting thing, the Gorgon ha- was said to have this blood that could cure any disease or bring someone back from the dead, but only if it was taken from the right side of the body.
AM: Huh!
JS: If it's taken from the left side of the body, it is a instant kill poison.
AM: Wow. Really just, just 50/50 there.
JS: Yeah. Which is interesting because, you know, duality and all that.
AM: Right.
JS: But, also, I like the idea that these gorgons can kill people instantly, both with their blood if they're dead --
AM: Right.
JS: -- or, if they're alive, people just get turned to stone.
AM: Yeah. I, I actually view it in a more pessimistic way, which is that the, the kind of like goodness is locked within them. That, you know, again, in the example of Medusa, like Athena, you know, created this like shell around her that's like literally impenetrable. You know, like anyone who comes near her whether it's, you know, just a human being to have a relationship with or certainly like a sexual or romantic matter, you know, like that is, is impossible. And, yet, the, the kind of like, you know, metaphorical goodness of her heart and also this, you know, life-giving blood is, is, is locked. Like you can't get to it.
JS: I like that. That's really cool.
AM: Damn. It's tragic, but yeah,
JS: It was a good interpretation. Thanks to you for that.
AM: That's cool.
JS: So, historically.
AM: Yes.
JS: Historically, Medusa and the gorgons were worshiped by the Libyan Amazons.
AM: Whoa.
JS: Into that, right?
AM: Whoa.
JS: She was considered a serpent goddess and associated with the destroyer face of a triple goddess, Anath, who is from North African religion.
AM: Whoa. What do you mean by a triple goddess?
JS: So, in certain religions, certain goddesses are considered triple goddesses. So, they're the same goddess or a grouping of goddess who control the same concept I guess, but different aspects of it.
AM: Oh, cool.
JS: So, like the Morrigan, who is a war and death goddess in Celtic mythology. She covers different parts of her. The triple face covered different aspects; so, peaceful death, death by war, like a timely death. I don't know. Stuff like that.
AM: Yeah. Cool.
JS: I'd have to – I'd have to look more into it.
AM: No. I like that. And, also, I mean this is the most obvious example, but the, the Greek like kind of threefold conception of love.
JS: Right.
AM: Which I'm not going to try to name them, because last time I did that --
JS: It was a mess.
AM: -- everyone on Twitter was like, "Umm."
JS: What are you trying to say?
AM: If you know other examples of the – of the three – you know, threefold manifold concept, let us know though.
JS: Yeah, it's a good one. In Sanskrit, and Medusa comes from the word midha, which means sovereign female wisdom.
AM: Oh, Sanskrit, you always come through.
JS: That's a really, really good line.
AM: They do.
JS: I'm trying to think. There's always some really good – whenever you're looking at Christian etymology and stuff like that.
AM: Oh, yeah.
JS: And they're like, "Oh, it means this in Greek, but, when you do Sanskrit, it's so much better. I'm like, "Yes, it is. Correct."
AM: I know. Especially that – like that overlap of like Indo-European languages.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like Persian-Arabic, kind of, you know, with like, like proto-languages. I mean it's amazing that, that whole, like, Fertile Crescent --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- of language.
JS: And then especially, if you're looking at like biblical stuff --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- the translation going from like Aramaic to Hebrew to Latin to Greek or whatever order --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- it's supposed to be in.
AM: Through a mirror darkly.
JS: Yeah, It's just – it's a hot mess.
AM: Yeah.
JS: It's surprising that anyone got anything remotely understandable from that book.
AM: When in doubt, go Sanskrit.
JS: Pretty much.
AM: Sanskrit or bust. It's really interesting because Athena is viewing Medusa as like, an errant woman, right? Like, for people who might not be familiar with the phrase victim-blaming, like it means, you know, instead of, you know, focusing your attention on a person who does something wrong, you instead blame the victim for, you know, dressing a certain way or being out a certain time or drinking or whatever. But Athena, you know, she's using Medusa and the kind of newly created monster Medusa that Athena made as this like image to strike fear into the hearts of her enemies --
JS: Right.
AM: -- which I think is fascinating because I think that she would, you know, just kind of cast-off Medusa and say like, "Oh, you're not worthy, or, oh, you've done something bad." But, instead, she almost loves the like terrible monster that Athena has created out of her particular version of what had happened to Medusa.
JS: Right, and I think that's such an interesting view.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And we'll talk a little bit more about that at the end of the story.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Because I just want to give a little bit of background on Medusa.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Besides the story of how Medusa became a "monster" --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- she's well-known for being murdered and beheaded by the demigod, Perseus --
AM: Oh, god.
JS: -- who was actually sent by Athena. Perseus had to stop the Kraken. Did you ever see Clash of the Titans?
AM: A terrible movie?
JS: The really bad movie, Clash of the Titans.
AM: No. I saw the terrible Percy Jackson. That's not the same.
JS: Not the same.
AM: Okay. No.
JS: Percy – Percy Jackson is named after Perseus, but yeah.
AM: Okay. Okay. I knew there was some association, people. It wasn't just a slip of the tongue. No.
JS: In the story, Perseus is sent on this quest because he has to rescue this princess from the Kraken, who was this crazy giant sea monster.
AM: It's just all the sea monster classical things in one myth. The snake-headed, the sea monster tentacle, all on the same place.
JS: Right. So, his only weakness in the situation is by using Medusa face stone player thing.
AM: Oh, to freeze the Kraken.
JS: Right. So, that's what he ends up doing. He actually is able to kill Medusa because Athena tells him how to kill her, which is to use a mirror --
AM: A mirror?
JS: -- a mirrored shield so that he doesn't have to look directly at her, and then beheading her.
AM: Oh, wow.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That is, A, pretty smart tactically and, B, that's awful. Like she's killed by the, the curse that was inflicted on her.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That she didn't ask for or deserve.
JS: Isn't it terrible?
AM: Athena is like, "Yo, let me engineer this little situation for you, Perseus and then give you like the, you know, hot hint on how to beat it.” Athena, you made the rules. That's like an older sibling being like, "Oh, I'm good at chess because I get to move whatever pieces I want," I say as an older sibling.
JS: Did you do that a couple times?
AM: I don't think so. I don't – because my siblings are much more competitive than me. So, I was like, "Oh, whatever. Fine."
JS: Do whatever you want, Connor.
AM: Yeah. Yeah. Please, I'll submit. Like, Connor, just don't like mess up or they're- hurt yourself with a knife.
JS: Interestingly, when Perseus beheads, Medusa, some of her blood falls to the floor and out of the blood --
AM: Like what happens when you behead someone.
JS: Right. But out of the blood springs forth two creatures.
AM: I want to say baby snakes. I really wanted baby snakes.
JS: Well, actually, so, it's the winged-horse Pegasus --
AM: Hah!
JS: -- and a winged boar named Chrysaor.
AM: Whoa. Winged boar?
JS: Yeah.
AM: That's next level shit.
JS: That's some Hogwarts shit right there.
AM: Ugh. Okay. Okay. Okay. Recover, Amanda. I love – I love the like highly undignified image of like a farm pig with wings. I know it's not what a boar is. Especially in classical Greece, like a boar is like a terrifying forest creature.
JS: Yeah.
AM: But I just – I'm picturing like, like grown up – what is the little pig? Not Little Winkle. It's --
JS: Little Winkle?
AM: No. The one that dies in Charlotte's Web. Wilbur?
JS: Oh, Abner. Wilbur?
AM: Wilbur.
JS: Wilbur. There's also little Abner. That's a thing too.
AM: I thought little Abner was a kid.
JS: I don't know. Maybe.
AM: I don't know.
JS: It doesn't matter.
AM: Who knows. Anyway, I just find that image funny. But it's awesome. We love – everyone loves Pegasus.
JS: Yeah. But the only reason Pegasus exists is because Medusa got killed by a dude bro.
AM: Yeah. And like we can read into this metaphor, you know, Poseidon's transgression, right? And like – and like feeling as if he has ownership over a woman's body – Medusa's body. You know, using her as a – as an unconsenting vehicle to birth Pegasus into the world. That was his intention.
JS: Well, actually, literally Ovid talks about how these creatures are the children that she never bore for Poseidon.
AM: Wow.
JS: So, a good call there.
AM: Ovid, Ovid, you know, you're okay, Ovid. You're okay.
JS: So --
AM: Totally psyche Ovid.
JS: In the story, so, Ovid has Perseus tell the story of Medusa in the story of Perseus.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And, when he's telling the story --
AM: In his own story.
JS: Yes. In his own story.
AM: Okay.
JS: He tells the story. And he, as he's telling the story, makes it very clear that Athena – what Athena did was just and righteous and good by turning Medusa into --
AM: Of course, he's – he's her freaking lackey.
JS: Yeah. It's, it's such like favoritism. The god --
AM: Yeah.
JS: The Greek gods had such favoritism that they literally picked sides during the Trojan War.
AM: Not only did they invent democracy, they invented nepotism.
JS: Yes, pretty much.
AM: I do appreciate that Medusa story lives on even if the the kind of, you know, lens on things that Perseus put on of being Athena's – you know, Athena's lackey. At least, we know who, who Medusa was, you know.
JS: Yeah. So, Medusa was considered a Gorgon. Do you know what a Gorgon is?
AM: I have some stone sculpture association in my head. That's it.
JS: Okay. So, to the Greeks, gorgons were always female creatures. Their name came from the word, gorgos, which means dreadful.
AM: Okay.
JS: Ironically, Medusa's name comes from the word, medein, which means to protect or rule over.
AM: Like City of Media?
JS: Yeah, but M-E-D-E-I-N.
AM: It sounds like a – I don't know. Classical Greek, but that seems like a language – you know, riffing type --
JS: Yeah. That seems legit.
AM: -- suffix thing.
JS: So --
AM: I'm a linguist.
JS: The gorgons always have the same attributes. Sometimes, the specifics change, but these attributes that they always have are that they always have the hair made of the living venomous snakes.
AM: So, question before you continue. Was Medein the first one and like all the other ones after that were sort of like based on her image or is it like a thing Athena did? Like a genre of Athena.
JS: No. So, the gorgons – the gorgons existed before the Medusa story.
AM: Okay.
JS: Chronologically, historically.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, the gorgons were these group of venomous snake-haired women.
AM: Yeah. It's like that was the thing before it was done to Medusa.
JS: Yes. And they could always turn people into stone. Traditionally, there are three gorgons in Greek mythology. Medusa is obviously one of them. And then there's Stheno and Euryale. The two Stheno and Euryale, they are immortal, and Medusa, obviously, is not. Despite their monstrous appearance, they're usually used to evoke protection.
AM: Sure.
JS: So, their images are put on shields, armor, and buildings as a way of offering protection against evil.
AM: Huh.
JS: Which is really cool.
AM: That is really cool. And, also, now I'm sort of imagining Medusa as a kind of bringer of justice against people who are trying to like fuck her over.
JS: Yeah.
AM: You know, like, like someone that almost like a person is going to mug you in the middle of night. You turn. Oh, no, you're a stone now.
JS: Yeah.
AM: You know, like, sort of doling out justice again with this unasked for and undeserved punishment that Athena inflicts on her.
JS: Yeah. I feel that. The gorgons image is usually associated with serpents and also associated with temples and Oracles. They're --
AM: Like kind of all-knowing, all seeing thing.
JS: Right. Something higher than what we understand to be human I guess.
AM: That's fascinating. Where do you think that association comes from?
JS: I think it really has to do with the idea of both God involvement in human affairs --
AM: Right.
JS: -- or vice versa --
AM: Yeah.
JS: -- but also that protection element. So, temples always have a certain protection element. They're always overlooked by the gods.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And the Oracles are that connection between the human world and the god world.
AM: Yeah. And like you don't know – or like we think about, you know, God's protection whether it's a contemporary idea or historical idea. You don't know when – where it's going to come from, what merits it, why and when God gets involved, and when he or she doesn't. You know, like it's sort of an unknowable, higher power type thing. So, I see it.
JS: They are associated with sea deities, because, in classic Greek mythology, Stheno and Euryale are both daughters of Ceto, the sea monster and her brother-husband, Phorcys.
AM: I love that, by now, I'm like brother-husband, it's a thing.
JS: Brother-husband.
AM: It's a thing.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Also, let's be honest. Snakes are totally sea creatures that someone allowed into the air. Like the snakes don't belong here. You are wormy. You are slimy. You have no limbs. You have snake tails.
JS: They’re not slimy. Have you ever held a snake, Amanda?
AM: Your whole – no. I mean they just – they look as if they should slime.
JS: Okay.
AM: I don't know.
JS: They're nice and smooth.
AM: They're like a – they're like a sea worm that is dry.
JS: Okay. Good description.
AM: Spirits Podcast.
JS: #SpiritsPodcast. So, the gorgons in art and engravings and anything that is – that kind of coincides with the Greek era, they are shown with their mouths open, fangs bared because they had either like serpent teeth or boar tusks, which is kind of cool. I'm into that.
AM: I actually love the idea of a snake with a boar tusk. I don't know where they would anchor like snakes don't have cheeks, but like, like – you know, like --
JS: Cheeky? Yeah. I feel you. That's cute though.
AM: It is cute. Oh, I found these earrings on Etsy the other day that are 3D printed animal skulls.
JS: Wooh.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Like that.
AM: Like from – like from actual skulls.
JS: I'm into that.
AM: Like historical or whatever. And, and one of them was like an open mouth velociraptor skull earrings.
JS: Oh, that's cool.
AM: So cool.
JS: Find the show notes.
AM: Link in the show notes. There may be some poetic justice though in, in her rage becoming legendary. She didn't ask for that kind of life and didn't ask for that kind of death. But I think the fact that she created a model for female rage gave us a face, gave us a name, you know, had that sort of inspiring, you know, in a certain way example of what you can do where you turn men to stone.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like, instead of being a – or you know, anyone. But, instead of being a sort of like constant vulnerable target, where – I mean this happens all the time. Like you walk down the street. You see someone coming at you. You think like, "Okay, how would I defend myself if they were to hit me" or, you know, kind of a target for verbal advances that you didn't ask for. Whatever the case, the fact that I can sort of turn on a laser beam with my eyes and turn a would-be or an actual assailant to stone like that's pretty badass. And, again, even, even if it wasn't intended in this way, I think I might want to view this myth as an example or a way for women to really just turn the narrative complete 180.
JS: I agree with that. And I think it's a little bit more inspiring and a little bit more hopeful if we look at it that way.
AM: Yeah. Well --
JS: A little bit more empowering.
AM: You know, there's no right answer, right?
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like it's, it is pretty amazing. Like, sometimes, when we – when we record these episodes, I find myself thinking like, wow, human beings, like super-advanced monkeys. Like we're telling the same stories that people told 3000 years ago or like you'll tell me a myth. And I'll be like, "Man, I read a book about that last week." You know, just these, these ideas over and over again, repeat. And it's almost overwhelming to think about historical ancestors as being so human. Like, if you see, you know, graffiti on the walls of Pompei, right? Or, or, you see the things that people buried their parents and children with. Like, you know, the tokens. These little like human reminders, they like hurt my heart. But, you know, because it's so --
JS: In a good way though.
AM: Right. Because it's, it's so, so intense and so relatable.
JS: It's that human experience. It's what makes mythology so amazing and so relatable. It's because no matter where you are in the world, we're telling the same stories. We're living the same experiences. The culture might be different, but we, as human beings, are the same. And it's so cool.
AM: Yeah. And, again, I mean kind of returning to, you know, contemporary kind of news and politics, not just in the US but all over the world, life would be a lot easier if we kind of approached strangers and situations and different cultures and different countries with that point of view. I don't know. Either way though, snake-hair is pretty badass.
JS: Oh, so badass.
AM: So, badass.
JS: I'd totally get like a snake hair haircut. That'd be legit.
Outro Music
AM: Spirits was created by Julia Schifini and me, Amanda McLoughlin. It's edited by Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
JS: Subscribe to Spirits on your preferred podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Tumblr, @SpiritsPodcast.
AM: On our Patreon page, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, you can sign up for exclusive content like behind the scenes photos, audio extras, director's commentary, blooper reels and beautiful recipe cards with custom drink and snack pairings.
JS: If you liked this show, please share with your friends and leave us a review on iTunes. It really does help.
AM: Thank you so much for listening, ‘til next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil