Episode 24: Krampus (with Eric Schneider)
/He's made a list, and we've gotten smashed. This week, we stumble through the story of Krampus, the half-goat, half-demon, anti-Santa Claus. Unique traditions, questionable origins, and weird pop culture surround Europe's favorite chain-wielding holiday figure. End the year in style with a creepy/cool holiday story and a side of (a lot) of eggnog.
Follow Eric on Twitter @ImEricSchneider.
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, & Goodreads, and review us on iTunes to help new listeners find the show. Plus, check out our Patreon for bonus audio content, director’s commentary, custom recipe cards, and more. We can also be reached at spiritspodcast@gmail.com.
Our music is "Danger Storm" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
Transcript
AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 24: Krampus with Eric Schneider.
JS: Oh, guys, we were so drunk during this. There was so much eggnog. There was so much bourbon.
AM: You, guys, are going to love it because we're rolled on. However, before we get into it, we do want to thank our newest patron, Tim Telep, watchman of our hearts
JS: It’s funny cause he’s a sailor.
AM: It is. And, as always, our Supporting Producer-level Patrons LeeAnn Davis, Shannon Alford, and Phil Fresh.
JS: You beautiful, unique snowflakes.
AM: Absolutely. If you want to join these noble forest snowflakes, maybe, you know, Krampus style, head on over to patreon.com/SpiritsPodcast to see all of our bitchin’ bonus content.
JS: There’s many episodes. There are drunken film reviews. There’s --
AM: There’s recipe cards.
JS: Oh, yeah.
AM: There’s me teaching poetry to Julia.
JS: You did good with that.
AM: Yeah. And there is a special spice that we are going to be sharing with you guys next week. So, stay tuned.
JS: In the meantime, why don’t you guys give the gift of Spirits this year. Share us with a friend. Share us with like someone who you really think enjoys drinking or weird stuff or just, you know, you want them to laugh a little bit.
AM: Friends chatting. Everyone loves friends chatting. Speaking of which, Julia, friend, what are we drinking?
JS: You got – you might not remember. I don't think Eric remembers. But we' re like really super, super drunk because we were having basically what was bourbon with a side of eggnog.
AM: Yeah, non-dairy because that's how I roll. And, yeah, it was just – the thing is I think it went down too quick.
JS: Yes.
AM: You know, like --
JS: That was probably the problem.
AM: -- it went down to smooth. Yeah. Anyway, our, our pain equals your pleasure.
JS: But we got joined by Eric this year.
AM: Yeah.
JS: We brought the whole Spirits family together for the holidays.
AM: We did. We did. And, you know, in that spirit, I don't want to get too sappy on y'all. But thank you for being with us.
JS: We love you guys. You're so cute. We're almost at our one year mark. And we're just super excited to have you all.
AM: It's like every day I wake up and remember that this is a thing, and I get so happy.
JS: Oh, god, me too.
AM: Without further ado, please enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 24: our last episode for 2016, Krampus with Eric Schneider.
Intro Music
JS: Happy Holiday Spirits team.
AM: Happy Holidays.
JS: I'm saying Spirits team, because, today, we are joined by our lovely editor, Eric.
E. Schneider: Hello.
JS: Hi, buddy. What's up?
E. Schneider: Not much. I'm here to share a spooky Christmas tale.
JS: Spooky Christmas tale is my favorite.
AM: Now, I just want to stop and recognize that our last team episode was perhaps the dumbest and --
JS: The most derailing bullshit.
AM: -- and most tangential episode.
E. Schneider: Yeah. No. I'm' I'm very excited to possibly bring that back.
JS: Top that.
AM: I mean I'm two glasses of bourbon in and really excited to be talking about a myth that I know literally nothing about.
JS: I know something about this one. Shocker central.
E. Schneider: I did – I did do a bit more research this time, because, last time, my research was a video I saw when I was six. And this time my research was a couple websites. Mostly, National Geographic. So, I think the last episode I was on, we ended it by creating a movie in which Chris Pine was walking through the woods with --
JS: No. No. It was --
AM: It was Chris Hemsworth.
JS: Chris Hemsworth.
E. Schneider: -- with Amanda Seyfried.
JS: It was Chris Hemsworth.
E. Schneider: Chris Hemsworth and Amanda Seyfriend.
JS: Yeah. And they had a --
E. Schneider: Yeah.
AM: And then a rescue Husky.
E. Schneider: Yeah.
AM: They had a rescue Husky, who wore an American flag bandana.
JS: Yeah.
E. Schneider: Wow. You remember far too much about this.
AM: It may or may not have segue into other parts of my life.
JS: Oh, god.
E. Schneider: Yeah.
AM: And they were just, you know, beat on the Appalachian Trail.
JS: Guys, I think Eric has a story to tell us. So, we should focus on that.
AM: Okay. However, listeners, if you've come to love my goofs, which I hope you have, Episode 5 is for you.
E. Schneider: Yes. And, if you enjoy this one, I'm there too. But, today, we're talking about Krampus.
JS: Krampus.
E. Schneider: Krampus is one of my favorite myths because, yeah, I think it's – I think it's starting to culturally become more well-known again. But he's essentially the anti-Santa Claus, the anti-St. Nicholas.
JS: Yeah, he is. Eric, did you have relatives like crazy grandmas and grandpas, who used to tell you that Krampus would come beat you if you weren't good around Christmas time?
E. Schneider: I didn't. I never had anything like that. My Krampus introduction was Oktoberfest. And, at Oktoberfest, they do – they have a little booth that celebrates Krampus.
AM: Do they?
E. Schneider: And, so, that – yeah. That – well, at our Oktoberfest, they do.
AM: You know Oktoberfest, the traditional Krampus recruiting booth.
JS: Recruiting soldiers.
E. Schneider: Those are the two things. Krampus is, in mythology, the – traditionally, the son of Hel. That's H-E-L. --
JS: Okay.
E. Schneider: -- in Norse mythology.
JS: Got you. We talked about Hel a little bit.
E. Schneider: Yes.
AM: We did.
E. Schneider: And Hel is the ruler of Helheim, which is the realm of the dead and stuff like that. So, she's a bad lady. That's where Krampus comes from. He is a half goat, half demon --
AM: Whoa.
JS: Killing it.
AM: Whoa.
JS: Good combo.
E. Schneider: -- which, which I don't understand how that works. Because Hel --
AM: I mean demons can take lots of corporeal forms.
E. Schneider: Yeah. But --
JS: I think we're assuming like the devil form plus like giant goat.
E. Schneider: Right. But like, if – I don't – is Hel a demon then?
JS: No. But --
E. Schneider: Because she's definitely not a goat.
JS: I feel like, if we're talking about Krampus, we're talking about the – like synchronization between Christianity and Norse mythology.
E. Schneider: Right.
JS: So, when we're talking about --
E. Schneider: So, you just kind of combine some bits.
JS: -- demons. Yeah. Well, because Christianity has this really bad habit of taking deities from other religions and be like, "Well, they're evil now. So, clearly, they're demons and not gods," because that's not allowed.
AM: Smells kind of Pagan, let's make it a demon.
JS: Yes, pretty much.
E. Schneider: It's kinda like a build your own evil creature situation we got going on.
JS: Yes.
AM: Yeah. Like, like the Lego sets where you can remove like the hair, the head, the torso, and the bum.
JS: Yep.
E. Schneider: Yeah. So, Krampus, along with this goat – he's a half goat, half demon guy. He's got big horns. Real, real scary face. If you Google Krampus, you'll see lots of scary faces.
AM: No.
JS: It looks kind of like – I feel like they --
E. Schneider: Amanda is not going to do it.
JS: The usual images is kind of like the weird Scream mask, but like a little bit more realistic.
E. Schneider: It's --
AM: Like the painting Scream?
JS: Well, like the horror movie, The Scream --
E. Schneider: The movie, Scream.
JS: -- that is based off of the painting, The Scream. Yes, Amanda.
AM: Wait. Is that the – oh, it's based off of the painting?
JS: Yeah.
AM: Wow.
E. Schneider: I never thought about that either, but that does make a lot of sense.
JS: Guys, come on. You're killing me here. You're actually killing me.
E. Schneider: Wow.
AM: Is that the one with the – with the white like ski mask thing.
JS: Yes.
AM: Not the Scissorhands.
JS: No, not – what?
AM: Sorry.
E. Schneider: You mean Edward Scissorhands?
JS: Oh, my god.
AM: Okay. That makes more sense.
E. Schneider: Krampus kind of looks like the Scream mask. He looks like a demon. He's a scary looking guy. He's got dark hair. He's got fangs. Very scary. He carries a chain and bells so you know he's coming, because it's Christmas. You gotta be festive. You gotta have --
JS: And, of course, there's bells.
E. Schneider: You gotta gotta have some bells
AM: Wait. Why would he make himself – why would he let you know that he's coming?
JS: He's like the fear.
E. Schneider: Because here's the thing --
AM: I, I get the chains. Like better to, you know, chain you up with, my dear.
E. Schneider: Because, because --
JS: It's like putting the dark mark over a house, Amanda.
AM: Oh, okay.
JS: It's the fear of the idea.
E. Schneider: Yeah. It's spooky. You want – he wants you to know he's coming. Like not a jingle jangle. More like a --
JS: Like angry church bells.
AM: Yeah. Or like my favorite --
E. Schneider: Yeah.
AM: -- fantasy book of all time, Sabriel by by Garth Nix, where Sabriel – [Inaudible 7:46] talks about this book so much – where she's someone's death and goes into the Underworld using bells of various frequencies. And, anyway, it's really good. Sabriel.
JS: There you go.
E. Schneider: The main thing about Krampus is that he – also along with this chain and the bells, he has a birch stick or a bunch of – a bundle of birch sticks. And he, he swats children with them.
AM: I'm guessing he's not like helpfully starting fires for people in the forest.
JS: No.
E. Schneider: No. No.
JS: He's whipping butts.
E. Schneider: No. He's whooping a bunch of kids. So, yeah. So, so, you have St. Nicholas. He's the one that comes, and he actually comes on St. Nicholas Day, which is December 6th.
JS: Huh. Sure.
E. Schneider: And the night before is Krampus night or – here – get ready. Eric is going to mispronounce something – Krampusnacht.
JS: Krampusnacht. I think that's the right way.
E. Schneider: There it is. Yeah.
AM: That's, that's better.
JS: That sounds right.
AM: Why don't they just call it Knight with a silent K, because the Krampus sneaks up on you like weird anglicized German pronunciation in English.
E. Schneider: Exactly. Yeah. So, so, the night before St. Nicholas arrives, Krampus shows up, and he's gonna punish all the kids that did bad. And the next day St Nicholas comes and gives all the children that were good good stuff.
AM: I mean that must be a really great like eight hours for the good kid.
JS: Yeah.
AM: You know, like you're laying in bed on Krampus Night, heretofore K-night, and, and you're waiting for your beating. You don't get your beating. Oh, no. Krampus left already. Nice. Presents in the morning.
JS: Yeah. But meanwhile you're seeing Ralph get dragged in the street, getting whipped with birch samples.
AM: Fuck Ralph. He pulled my pigtails.
JS: Yeah, fuck Ralph.
AM: Fuck that guy.
E. Schneider: Fuck Ralph.
JS: Fuck him.
E. Schneider: He's the worst. In, in slightly nicer versions, all Krampus does is put a bundle of sticks in children's shoes. So, I assume that they're not looking when they put their shoes --
AM: Great goof, Krampus. Hey, kid, you gotta I take a stick out of your shoe before you can put it on. Huh.
E. Schneider: I think the intention is – so, apparently, in German tradition, children left their shoes out. And that's where st Nicolas would leave them presents.
AM: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
JS: Yeah. Like the stockings hanging by the fire or at least they were.
E. Schneider: Yeah.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
E. Schneider: And Krampus I guess would put a bundle of sticks in there. I assume the idea is that the children would put their shoes on and not realize it, and they hurt themselves.
AM: I assume that like they're, they're like better, nicer, older sister, aka me, would have a present in her shoe, and you would have a stick your shoe just like a lump of coal and kind of modern, you know, US tradition.
JS: Yes.
E. Schneider: Yes. Yeah. In worse versions, then there's just Krampus comes in. He hits you with some sticks. And then there's also – I've heard stories of like him dragging you down to --
JS: Dragging you to hell. Yep.
E. Schneider: -- hell or a cave or something --
AM: What?
E. Schneider: -- and tying you up with the chain and just beating you there all night long.
JS: He's a demon.
E. Schneider: So, so, the scale really goes from sticks in the shoe to kidnapping and torture. So, it's a wide-reaching myth.
AM: Like a slightly nefarious squirrel all the way down to like child kidnapping and abuse. And, wait, hold on. So, like on whose behalf is Krampus working? Because this seems great for parents. Because you can punish the kid who annoys you all the time and, and not take responsibility for it.
JS: Well, like on whose behalf is fucking Santa Claus working, Amanda?
AM: The universe. God.
JS: Maybe they're just fucking crazy.
AM: I don't know.
E. Schneider: Well, he's working on Hel's behest then.
JS: Does that mean Santa is like an angel?
E. Schneider: If St. Nicholas is for God.
AM: But like what's the purpose? Like, okay, to punish the kid, I get. But the sticks in the shoe and stuff, like it's not just to ruin your Christmas.
JS: Maybe it's a warning.
AM: I assume it's to be like, "Hey kid, in an indeterminate amount of time, aka, you know, 10 to 70 years, like I'll be seeing you.”
JS: That might be it.
AM: Is it – is it a sort of, you know, way or incentive for people to change their ways and be like, "Oh, no. We're on the right path?"
JS: Yeah. Maybe it's a sliding scale. Maybe it's a sliding scale. You start with the sticks in the shoes. And then you move all the way up to eternal damnation if you don't change your ways.
AM: Right or – exactly. Like, "Oh, no. I have a stick in my shoe. I better – I better reform my ways.
JS: Yeah.
E. Schneider: Yeah. I think Krampus is just the – he's the – he's the – it's like a yin and yang, but for German children.
JS: You can't just be like --
E. Schneider: He's balancing it out.
JS: Yeah. You can't just be like, "Oh, hey, St. Nick is gonna bring presents." And, if you're bad, all you get is no presents. You give punishments.
AM: But how, how else do you then determine which of your sibling secretly hates you than looking at the array of presents on Christmas, and you're like, "Oh, shit. She got me a phone case for the wrong mobile phone. She must really hate me."
JS: Oh, damn. Have you done that before, Amanda?
AM: No, my cousin, Seth.
JS: Okay. Pretty impressive though.
E. Schneider: I forgot to mention this earlier. Krampus comes from the German word Krampen, which means claw. So, this guy has just got – he's got all the bad – he's got chains, bells, hit you with sticks. He's got horns. He's half goat, half demon. I mean he really runs the gambit on like bad stuff.
JS: That reminds me of like Nightmare Before Christmas, where they think Santa Claus – his name is Sandy Claws, and they assume he's like a really terrifying creature that has claws.
E. Schneider: Yes. Yes.
JS: Pretty much
AM: But that's what demons are, right? Like demons are kind of like nightmarish mashup of all the things that we don't want in the same place. Like, when you were describing earlier demon and goat, I was like, "Okay. It makes total sense," because the the sort of – like I think I mentioned in an earlier episode incongruous things mashed together. Like faces in windows where faces they shouldn't be.
JS: Or, it could be a [Inaudible 13:23]
AM: Right. Or, like creatures with, you know, nails instead of feet. Like, "Oh, no. Please don't." So, it kind of makes sense that all – you know, you're kind of like very – like morphologies of weird demon appendages and stuff would all just show up on this one Krampus. What does he wear?
E. Schneider: He just kind of has like a – the pictures I've always seen of him. He's just kind of got like cloaks and rags and just kind of like he crawled out of like a gutter kind of looking guy.
JS: Like Santa looks nice. Krampus looks like a fucking hobo.
AM: Does Santa look nice?
JS: Yes. He has a fancy ass suit, Amanda. Like, Jesus.
E. Schneider: Whoa, hold on.
JS: We cannot judge Santa like that for his clothing.
AM: I'm fine. I'm fine to like --
E. Schneider: Well, we know who's getting kidnapped out of the three of us this Christmas.
JS: Well, suck it, Amanda.
AM: I find the – guys, if you find twigs in my shoes, you know who took me. But, no, I finally kind of like fur-lined Velour sweatsuits to be not the peak of fashion for me.
JS: Listen, it's cold in the fucking North Pole.
E. Schneider: I think – I think it's – I think it's overstating what Santa's wearing.
AM: Yeah. But he lives inside and he's magic.
JS: You know how magic Santa is.
AM: Julia.
JS: Maybe, maybe he only has time manipulation and not like can stay in the cold.
AM: So, can he manipulate himself across the tundra from one moment to the next?
JS: It will still be fucking cold in each moment.
AM: This is like a guy who goes hiking twice a year and wears hiking boots every day to really throw that in your face like a surfer bro.
JS: Like the cowboy boots.
AM: Right. Yes. I mean cowboy boots are like a – like a thing in the south. But like people in our high school who would like wear board shorts every day, and they've gone surfing once in their lives.
JS: Fucking douchebags.
AM: Fucking douchebags.
E. Schneider: So, there is actually a modern take on Krampus as well called – Julia, you might be able to say this better than I can – Krampuslauf.
JS: I don't even know how you would spell this. So, I'm not even going to attempt it. And your try was so good there. I can't --
E. Schneider: Hold on. No. Wait. I'm gonna try to get this again. I'm gonna try it again.
AM: Julia though won't say that better than you can.
E. Schneider: Because you know what? I was wrong. I definitely was wrong.
AM: If there's one thing we can agree on here, you were definitely wrong.
JS: You were definitely wrong.
E. Schneider: Krampuslauf. I just said Krampuff. It's Krampuslauf. So, what happens in this is that drunken men dress up as Krampus, and they just kind of run through the streets chasing the children.
AM: Okay. That sounds like a [Inaudible 15:42] description.
E. Schneider: That's it. That's the whole thing.
JS: Eric, Eric, we have that here in New York. It's called SantaCon.
AM: We do. We do. It is truly a 180 inversion --
JS: Fucking terrible.
AM: -- of all of the values of Christmas.
JS: It's just fucking awful. It's just sexy elves --
E. Schneider: We have – we have SantaCon in Cleveland as well.
JS: Oh, it's spread.
E. Schneider: It's, it's not as bad as New York City SantaCon by any means just because there's more people, but it's the same general premise just less Santas.
JS: It's just sexy elves and drunk Santas fighting each other until everyone throws up.
E. Schneider: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Literally, the next day walking to work, you will like wade through discarded pieces of Santa's costumes and piles of dried vomit --
JS: That's so fucking gross.
AM: -- to – on your way to the subway. It is disgusting.
JS: Fuck anyone who participates in SantaCon.
AM: Julia, do you remember the way we found out about SantaCon?
E. Schneider: You walked outside.
JS: We were like at a poetry reading or something.
AM: We were at an internet concert --
JS: Yes.
AM: -- of YouTubers.
JS: Yes.
AM: When we were like 15 or 16, we had gone into the city especially on a Saturday like on our own, you know, to like go to see this concert. And, as we entered the subway – again, it was like the first week of December. And we were like, "Well, that's weird. There's a guy in a Santa costume or whatever. There's a second guy in a Santa costume. Like there's a third guy in a Santa – there's four guys in Santa costumes." And then, later on – well, there wasn't mobile internet. So, we, you know, went somewhere and at home --
JS: Well, there was mobile internet because Maureen Johnson tweeted.
AM: Well, we rely on data plans.
JS: Yes.
AM: Yeah. Oh.
JS: I remember that.
AM: Yes. And, so, we were like, "Oh, god, SantaCon is actually a thing." And, unrelated, but later, at that same event, Maureen Johnson was like, "I'm at this event." And we – and the picture that she tweeted of her view at the event was the back of my head. And I turned, "Oh, my god, Maureen Johnson. Do you want to share a table?" And she's like, "Yes, thank you."
JS: And then I sat on Amanda's lap and Maureen Johnson sat across from us.
AM: Yeah, it was great. Anyway, fuck SantaCon.
JS: Fuck, SantaCon. If you do it, fuck you.
E. Schneider: Can't agree more. But, but Krampuslauf --
JS: Yes.
E. Schneider: -- sounds lovely. Just a bunch of drunk guys dressed as devils chasing people through the streets.
JS: I'm like kind of into that. Like I would be down to watch that as a – like people watching sort of situation.
E. Schneider: As a sport.
JS: Like, like the running of the bulls, but --
E. Schneider: The next big thing after – after CrossFit. It's Krampuslauf. It’s just really intense cardio workout --
AM: Or, like the end of the block party.
E. Schneider: -- where you have to dress up as a devil and just run through the streets.
JS: I'm so into that more than I would be into SoulCycle.
AM: Yeah. Right. Like why compete energy in one room?
JS: I literally unfriended someone on Facebook today because they kept posting about SoulCycle.
AM: But, but that Krampuslauf, which is how I'm pronouncing it, sounds --
E. Schneider: That sounds – looks correct.
AM: -- sounds more – listen, Spirits Podcast, it looks correct. That's all we care about.
JS: It seems right.
AM: But it sounds more, to me, like a retroactive like justification of like a highly embarrassing night, where, you know, all your brothers, and uncles, and cousins like get drunk, run in the snow, like beat the neighbors children up. But then like, "Oh, it's all asks because the kids are okay at the end of it." And then they suddenly like make it a tradition to excuse the behavior. Like the end of a block party, where the children go home, and everybody is way too drunk because they're at home. And the next morning it's like folding tables. Like turned over bowls of chips. Like cups. There's like someone hanging out sleeping on a – on a floaty thing in someone's pool.
JS: And someone's sleeping on the inevitable blow up slide that they bought for the block party.
AM: Yes. It's all deflated. So, the person is like buried in the thing. Yeah. Anyway, I speak from experience.
JS: Yes, I can see that.
E. Schneider: It's just like that, but with demons.
AM: Yes.
E. Schneider: Not dressed as demons.
JS: I feel like we don't have enough good demon tradition in the United States.
E. Schneider: I mean we have one that's president now. So, that should help.
JS: I mean that's true.
AM: Hell is empty for all the devils are here.
E. Schneider: There are some people that have tried to ban Krampus. The Catholic Church, in the 12th century, tried to kind of just get rid of any mention or celebration or participation of any Krampus-related rituals just because he looked like the devil. But, you know --
AM: Classic, classic Catholic Church.
E. Schneider: Yeah.
JS: Especially the --
AM: They're like – they're like a – like a jealous girlfriend or boyfriend who won't even let, you know, their partner talk to a member of the opposite sex or like be seen with them in the hallways, because they're like, "Oh, you must be, you know, going on a nefarious deeds." Like, Catholic Church, people can talk about shit that isn't – that isn't the Catholic Church. Come on.
E. Schneider: Yeah.
JS: It's not like we're worshipping Krampus. We're being like, "He's a douchebag. He brings us sticks and beats us."
E. Schneider: Exactly.
AM: Yeah. And like I guess the threat of eternal damnation like – there isn't like the acute daily presence of evil sufficiently for Catholics. Evangelicals have that way better, the like acute daily presence of that devil.
JS: That's true.
E. Schneider: So, it's really good. There was also this, which I did not – I couldn't find what this meant at all. But this is what it said on the website. That fascist, in World War II in Europe specifically, found Krampus despicable because it was considered a creation of the Social Democrats.
JS: Okay.
E. Schneider: I don't know how to unpack that. And I don't know what to do with it. But that's something that apparently happened.
JS: I feel like the fascist would be against it because fascism, as a whole, is against religion and sort of religious culture.
AM: Yeah.
E. Schneider: Right.
JS: So, they may be like, "Why are you --
E. Schneider: I don't get why he was a creation of the social democrats specifically.
AM: We'll just pin it on the opposite party. Yeah. I mean Krampus is policing behavior, right? And like that will be seen --
E. Schneider: Yes.
JS: How dare they.
AM: -- perhaps as a – as a, right, like a challenge to the the fascist government.
JS: Basically, they're saying Krampus is PC.
AM: Yeah.
E. Schneider: Exactly.
JS: Krampus is the PC police.
E. Schneider: This is too politically correct for this nation.
AM: Classic social justice warrior.
E. Schneider: Krampus, the original SJW.
AM: Classic. I propose actually --
E. Schneider: You know what? You know what? Now, that we've talked through it.
AM: Actually --
E. Schneider: It actually makes a lot of sense.
AM: Wait, guys. We still have more of something really good here. We only had to record 45 minutes of shit before we got it. Because, listen, like modern SJWs, right?
E. Schneider: [Inaudible 21:40].
AM: Like we, speaking as a people, right, like we were all for social justice people. I'm sorry to tell you that. Yeah. I'm finally looking up.
JS: In case you didn't know by now.
AM: And like we're super into the witches aesthetic. Like it's – you know, we, we embrace it. And the idea of like running around in like a tattered cloak like chick from Les Mis style with like some claws and a big like birch stick, which I – you know birch trees are pretty.
JS: That's true.
AM: And, you know, like I'm into it.
E. Schneider: Yeah. You know what? It actually makes a lot of sense though. Krampus seems like he might be the good guy.
AM: Yeah.
E. Schneider: Like sure St. Nick is giving decent people presents, but Krampus is putting bad people in their place.
JS: St. Nick is also promoting too much capitalism, and I'm not into it.
AM: He is.
E. Schneider: That's true. Although – but – however, the fascist didn't have a problem with him --
AM: Yeah.
E. Schneider: -- which makes it seem like St. Nick was in bed with the fascists.
AM: Or that --
JS: I think he might be.
AM: Classics St. Nick. Or, no, that like maybe, maybe Christmas was too embedded in the social consciousness for them to really challenge. And, and they can kind of spin it as like just a kind of day off holiday or family holiday. But the like specific, you know, policing a bad behavior through the lens of like eternal damnation was, was too much to handle.
E. Schneider: That makes sense. In pop culture, he was popular on postcards in I believe the Netherlands starting in like the late 1890s through the early 1900s. Apparently, they just started putting Krampus on postcards. And that was like a thing that you could buy around town.
JS: I want one of those.
AM: I mean I guess – I guess while the rest of Europe was busy like finishing the Industrial Revolution, they were like, "Hey, let's put our priorities in things that matter, y'all."
JS: Krampus.
E. Schneider: I think that'd be – we need more postcards with devils on them.
AM: After 700 years of peace and prosperity and war with other Scandinavian countries, I think we know what we have to focus on as a nation.
E. Schneider: And then there's also the movie that came out I believe last year.
JS: It was last year.
E. Schneider: Krampus.
AM: What?
E. Schneider: Which has a --
JS: Okay. Wait. Wait.
E. Schneider: Anybody want to guess --
JS: I want to guess.
E. Schneider: -- what it had on Rotten Tomatoes?
JS: I'm gonna go --
E. Schneider: This is a horror comedy holiday film.
JS: 53.
E. Schneider: 53. The critic score is actually a 65. But the, the user score is actually a 52. So --
JS: Oooh, I’m so close.
E. Schneider: -- you're only 1 percent off from what the public say of Krampus.
JS: That's amazing. I saw that movie.
AM: My conclusion from this is that Julia is the public.
E. Schneider: Can you – can you tell me anything about it? Because I did not see.
JS: Okay. I can tell you about it. Let me think. I'm gonna forget actors’ names, Eric. And I'm gonna need you to fill in the blanks for me here.
E. Schneider: All right. This is a perfect thing for me to do.
JS: I know. Okay. So, the --
E. Schneider: Adam Scott, number one.
JS: Adam Scott. Yes.
AM: What?
JS: Adam Scott plays the dad in that movie. The crazy redneck uncle is played by the dude who is like the traveling salesman for the office. So --
AM: Wait. He played who?
JS: The crazy redneck uncle --
AM: Oh, yes.
JS: -- in that situation.
AM: Good.
JS: So, basically, the plot of the movie as I remember it – I saw with Jake and his Haunted House crew.
AM: Oh, boy.
JS: Because they rented out a private theater and watch the whole movie. And I actually --
AM: Oh, my god, they would.
JS: -- when we did the Haunted House this year, Krampus was our last room in the haunted house, because the guy who runs the haunted house was so into the movie.
AM: Oh, my god, that's the most cryptozoological thing I've ever heard.
JS: Okay. Anyway, so, the movie is about this German family I guess that has people over for Christmas. And, in the movie,Krampus, basically, punishes families who are too greedy and who don't have the Christmas spirit. It was dumb as fuck.
E. Schneider: Yeah. That's not as interesting --
AM: Huh.
JS: No.
E. Schneider: -- as just being bad.
JS: Yes. But – so, consistently, the grandma in the story who is an old German grandma, who only speaks German --
AM: Nice.
JS: -- and who pronounces Krampus as Krampus the entire movie.
E. Schneider: Of course, you need an old woman telling you the myth throughout the movie.
JS: Right. And, basically, what they do in the entire movie is they take concepts of Christmas. So, snow, snowman, gingerbread cookies, toys. And they turn them into these evil things --
AM: Yes.
JS: -- that are attacking the family throughout Christmas night.
AM: I dig it.
JS: And then the family ends up all going to hell, which is basically their house on Christmas done over and over and over again. And they're stuck in the snow globe, where they're just in (Hell).
AM: Oh, my god. Like a – like a fucking groundhogs day of like forced family togetherness.
JS: Yes.
AM: Ugh.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That is truly hellish.
JS: We need that hell, right?
AM: That is truly hellish.
JS: Oh, god.
E. Schneider: That sounds rough.
AM: But that – I don't know, because it seems like, if Krampus were an enforcer of Christmas values, he would have to be aligned with Santa in a way that, that seems like, if I pictured him as traditional kind of like warring factions, then Krampus should promote like disorder and randomness and and like an upheaval of the the kind of like traditional ordering of like who is good and who is bad.
E. Schneider: I think you've got kind of like a Jove situation with St. Nick and Krampus.
JS: Oh, damn.
E. Schneider: Where you essentially have of all of the human race is Jove --
JS: Okay.
E. Schneider: -- and St. Nick as God and Krampus as the devil. And St. Nick is like --
JS: I was literally going to say that.
E. Schneider: Because St. Nick – apparently, he walks around the night before with the Book of Sins in the Krampus legend.
JS: Killing it.
E. Schneider: He's letting Krampus know who is bad. So, he's kind of like letting Krampus go take care of the bad people. And he'll take care of the good people the next day. So, it's very much kind of a Jovian tale. I mean not the devil's omnipotent in traditional storytelling, but like you have these two nearly omnipotent creatures controlling the lives of human.
AM: And it's sort of like the Greek conception of Zeus, Poseidon and Hades, where it's like y'all three have your dominions. You know, air – you know, air and ground is one thing. Water is one thing. Underground is one thing. And like, you know, that is your dominion. And, if people are bad, they are yours to deal with. If people are good, they are mine to deal with.
JS: I think Eric was pretty on the ball. Side note, if you guys want to give me a Christmas gift, you'll give me a Book of Sins, because I'd be super into that.
AM: Eric, let's take that offline. Let's work on it.
E. Schneider: Yeah. Yeah. We can – we can figure out that. I'll just write down a bunch of bad shit I've done recently.
AM: That sounds great. You know what I'll do, Julia?
E. Schneider: Just a list of – just a personal list of my sins in a book.
AM: Do you know what I'll do? Is I’ll write down all of the things I think about '80s TV shows.
E. Schneider: Yeah.
AM: And there'll be just endless sins of common knowledge [Inaudible 28:38].
E. Schneider: You know what? If we ever have a Kickstarter, our Kickstarter would just be a book called Pop Culture According to Amanda.
JS: Guys, that would just be the greatest gift of all.
E. Schneider: I'm not even joking. I think we should do that. Because --
AM: I mean I'm here.
E. Schneider: So, that's pretty much everything with Krampus. He's a demigod more or less that is a half demon, half goat that whips children because they're bad right before Christmas.
JS: What about adults? Does he have any say in adults or just children?
E. Schneider: I think it's just children just because St. Nick is just for children. I don't think he – I don't think Santa has any purpose with adults either. So, I assume Krampus --
AM: That's a really interesting like moral fatalism, right?
E. Schneider: -- does the same thing.
AM: Like, like children are young enough and impressionable enough to change their ways. But adults like, "Man, they are on their path."
JS: That's an ageist bullshit. I know plenty of people – plenty of adults, who need to be whipped in the ass by some birch leaves by Krampus.
E. Schneider: Well, you can dress up and, on Krampuslauf, you can go whip some ass.
JS: I'd be into that.
AM: I mean I'm there. Get a – what is that Scream mask? Man, that's blown my mind. That it's from a painting.
JS: Yes.
E. Schneider: I also never realized that.
AM: That's crazy.
JS: Guys, you're killing me.
E. Schneider: Yeah. I have – you know, I might have realized that afterward. But I definitely – like whenever I think of the Scream mask --
JS: Forgot about it.
E. Schneider: -- I don't think also of the painting, The Scream.
AM: Nope. Totally, I had no idea
E. Schneider: Which is stolen. Have they found that yet?
JS: What?
E. Schneider: Did they ever find that painting? It got stolen.
JS: I have no fucking clue.
AM: The Scream one.
E. Schneider: Somebody let us – somebody let us know in a five star review.
JS: In a five star review, let us know. The Scream painting, stolen or no
E. Schneider: If anyone know it, you know --
AM: Leave your five star review on iTunes and tell us where you would hide the Scream painting if you were to hide it.
E. Schneider: Exactly
AM: So, whether or not you have St Nicholas or Krampus coming for you, Spiriters, we wish you a very happy holiday season or a day off work if that's all it is to you. Please check your shoes for birch twigs if you – you know, you're going out on Christmas Day just in case.
Outro Music
AM: Spirits was created by Julia Schifini and me, Amanda McLoughlin. It's edited by Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
JS: Subscribe to Spirits on your preferred podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Tumblr @SpiritsPodcast.
AM: On our Patreon page, Patreon.com/SpiritsPodcast, you can sign up for exclusive content like behind the scenes photos, audio extras, director's commentary, blooper reels, and beautiful recipe cards with custom drink and snack bearings.
JS: If you liked this show, please share with your friends and leave us a review on iTunes. It really does help.
AM: Thank you so much for listening, ‘til next time
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil