Episode 68: Hollywood Urban Legends (with James Oliva)
/Hollywood: Stars and Glamor, but also murder and curses? It’s more likely than you think. We’re joined by audio drama creator, James Oliva, to do a deep dive into the urban legends and spooky happenstances of Hollywood and the movie industry. Featuring William Shatner as the virtuous hero(???), why an incubus should be called a dudeubus, and the story of James Dean, Lesbian Icon.
Content warning: discussion of death, suicide, sexual assault, domestic violence, homicide, and motor vehicle accidents. If you are looking for support around any of these topics, visit rainn.org or text/call the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255.
Guest
Thanks to James Oliva for joining us this episode. Check out What’s the Frequency in your podcast player, and follow him on Twitter @jamesoliva76!
Sponsor
Audible - Go to audible.com/spirits or text spirits to 500-500 to start your free trial and redeem your free audiobook. This week Julia recommends Children of Blood & Bone by Tomi Adeyemi and Amanda recommends The Secret Place by Tana French.
Find Us Online
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, & Goodreads, and review us on Apple Podcasts to help new listeners find the show. You can support us on Patreon to unlock bonus audio content, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. Merch is for sale at spiritspodcast.com/merch.
Transcript
AM: Welcome to Spirits Podcast Episode 68: Hollywood Urban Legends with James Oliva.
JS: Oh, gosh. This is one that I wanted to do for a while now.
AM: I was pretty drunk during this episode.
JS: Me too.
AM: I don't remember a lot of it.
JS: All right. That’s good.
AM: I'm sure it's great.
JS: Yes. James is a wonderful and enthusiastic person. We actually did an episode of Spirits with him beforehand, but it's – it was not a real episode of Spirits. It was our crossover with Greater Boston.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Yeah. But that was a lot of fun.
AM: It was very fun.
JS: Yeah.
AM: And he was in character during that episode, but we did what sounded like a real Spirits Episode about --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- this fictional universe’s urban legends. So, we'll link that one in the – in the show description, but it's very good.
JS: I almost just said in the doobly-doo and I hate myself for it.
AM: Julia, you weren't even a vlogger. Do you know who never says doobly-doo?
JS: Our patrons because they're good people.
AM: Exactly, our newest patrons. Welcome to Palmer, Tristan, Amber, Alison, Rachel, Caleb, Milo, Patrice, and Jessica.
JS: There's so many of you this week.
AM: Hello.
JS: Hello.
AM: Welcome.
JS: Yo! Yeah. Welcome. Welcome.
AM: And also not welcome but an eternal thank you. We love you. We see you. You're invited to our house anytime. You might have a key –
JS: You always have a seat at the table.
AM: -- but you have a seat at the table.
JS: Yes.
AM: To Neal, Philip, Julie, Sara, Kristina, Josh, Eeyore, Maria, Cammie, Lindsey, Ryan, Shelby, Lin, Mercedes, Phil, Catherine, and Debra. And our legend level patrons, Sandra, AshleyMarie, Buggy, LeeAnn, Ashley, Shannon, and Cassie.
JS: Like Amanda was saying, you do have a key to our houses. Thank you for checking out our animals and watering our plans for us while we were away.
AM: Your great house sitters. Somehow, the house smells better when you leave.
JS: It's amazing. Did you bake cookies? There's cookies.
AM: Cookies remind me of sitting in a nice big plushy armchair and curling up with a good book. But sometimes I want to enjoy my good, good books when my hands are busy like when I'm doing the dishes or when I'm commuting and have to like hold on to the subway pole and like move a kid away from my bag with the other one.
JS: Or, like, doing embroidery or, or just playing a video game.
AM: Exactly. And, while doing that, once you've run out of Spirits Episodes and Join the Party Pod episodes and Potterless --
JS: All of the Multitude.
AM: -- and Waystation to listen to, you can listen to Audible. If you go to audible.com/spirits, you can start a free trial and redeem a free audiobook. And, also, Julia, you can text the word Spirits to 500-500 to actually get that download URL to yourself.
JS: Yeah. And, if it is your first time with Audible, you know that they sponsored us before.
AM: They have.
JS: You will get that free trial and you get a free audiobook with it.
AM: Yay.
JS: And we're going to give you some recommendations later on in the episode.
AM: Hang on.
JS: It's a cliffhanger.
AM: And, Jules, before we get to this meaty, beautiful drunken episode, what actually got us so drunk?
JS: So, I was kind of inspired by the, like, 1940s LA noir. Like, starlet kind of thing. So --
AM: Right. Like, Oh, darling.
JS: Yes. Oh, oh, Charles.
AM: My, my, my mink stool isn’t the right color.
JS: Which I also blame James because he has an amazing audio drama called What's the Frequency? that is set in that time period.
AM: Yes.
JS: But, anyway --
AM: Which Julia's in.
JS: That I am in. But I made us gimlets.
AM: Yes. Not just a media company also a pretty delicious drink.
JS: Yes.
AM: All right. So, without further ado, y'all, enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 68: Hollywood Urban Legends with James Oliva.
JS: Yeah.
Intro Music
JS: So, Amanda, we're doing something a little bit different this week.
AM: Are we?
JS: I, I am going to tag team the research this week because we have a special guest.
AM: It's not me, right?
JS: It’s not you.
AM: Didn’t prepare.
JS: No, you’re good.
AM: Okay.
JS: You’re okay. We're joined this week by just voice actor, audio drama wizard extraordinaire, James Oliva. Hi, James.
JO: Hi. Hello. Thank you for having me.
AM: There’s a Skype call happening. Hi, James.
JO: Oh.
JS: Yeah. That was great acting, Amanda.
JO: Yeah. I’m here. Hi.
JS: Good job.
AM: Hi.
JS: So, James is going to be helping me a little bit with the storytelling in this episode, because we're doing something that is near and dear to his heart as well as mine.
JO: Yes.
JS: And that is a Hollywood Myths and Urban Legends.
AM: Ooh.
JS: Which is like booo.
AM: Ooh.
JS: Just insert – what's the – what's the --
AM: I'm sorry. Did you interrupt the acapella version of the --
JO: You’re talking about the [Inaudible 4:16] the musical film.
JS: I was – I was talking about the Thermo, but Amanda just did --
JO: Yeah.
JS: What did you do?
AM: The X-Files theme song.
JS: That was good. I’m proud of you.
AM: Thank you.
JS: Okay. So, now that we've really just dove into it here.
AM: So, James, what is your connection to Hollywood? This is thing that you've just always been fascinated by. Like, what is --
JO: Yeah.
AM: What is your kind of origin story with this stuff?
JO: Well, yeah. Yeah. You know what? Actually, that's a great question because it is something that I've always innately been drawn to. Like, when I – I grew up on Long Island. And, so, I used to go to --
AM: Nice, us too.
JO: -- Middle Country Public Library.
JS: Home boy.
JO: The big one over in Centereach.
JS: Mhmm.
AM: Nice.
JO: And, yeah. And, so, I used to go there and rent movies by like – at the time, they usually let you rent like 10 at a time. And I would just – completely just --
JS: That seems very high.
AM: That does seem very high. Our library had a limit of 10 books per patron --
JO: Oh, wow.
AM: -- which I was not able to get around.
JS: Oh, I was like a five. The one that I went to was five books per patron and then three videos maybe per person.
JO: Really? Oh.
AM: Yeah.
JO: This is the Middle Country Library?
JS: No, this was --
AM: No, Merrick. North Merrick.
JS: -- our North Merrick Library.
JO: Oh, okay. Yeah. This, this library was cool. So, --
JS: The cool library.
AM: [Inaudible 5:25].
JO: They would let you rent out up to 10. It was – it was the cool – absolutely, cool. Actually, it's – it's world renowned. I used to go there all the time. And, as I got older, I actually used to be one of – like a – just to give you an understanding of how nerdy or weird I was, at like 11 years old, I used to go there. And I would go and ransack their Hollywood Reporters and Varieties. And I would be reading the Varieties and Hollywood Reporters. And I'd be looking at all the different deals that were being done, and the movies that were in production, and the box office results, and then, like, the special Cannes versions that were, like, for movies that were looking to be made. So, there are movies in there that I didn't realize at the time that we're actually getting made, that have never been made, that had stuck in my brain. It’s like, “Where did that movie go? Where did --
AM: Ooh.
JO: No, it was just – it was just an advertisement for a movie that never got made. So, yeah, I used to study that stuff.
JS: That’s creepy and fascinating.
AM: Yeah. And that sounds like the answer to – there's like a subreddit for stuff you remember but can't find on the internet. And, so, people will be like, “Well, there's a commercial from, like, 1982 I think about like Weetabix,” and trying to, like, find particular ones.
JS: That’s fucking amazing.
JO: Right.
AM: And that sounds like something where you're like, “I know for a fact, in my mind, this was a movie.”
JO: Right.
AM: And it seems like the answer to a riddle. Like, oh, it was actually advertised but just never made.
JO: Yeah. Yeah. Almost like the Bear Berenstain – Bear stain – Berenstain.
AM: Hell yeah.
JS: The Mandela Effect.
AM: Berenstain Bears.
JO: The Mandela Effect. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like that.
JS: I had an intense argument with my fiancé, like, a week ago. He is like, “Yeah, you know, like, in that movie Shazaam.” I’m like that movie never was made. He’s like, “What are you talking about?” I'm like, “It was never made.” He's like, “No, it was.” I’m just like, “It wasn't though.”
AM: Maybe there's a Wikipedia page.
JS: There’s a literal Wikipedia page about it. He's like, “What? Just because it was on the internet, you think it's true?” I’m like, “No.”
AM: I mean, yeah, but also no.
JO: But is he talking about – is he talking about the, the Shaquille O'Neal film?
JS: No, the Sinbad one.
AM: Shazaam!
JS: The Sinbad one that doesn't exist.
JO: Oh, okay. All right.
AM: Do you know what this is, James?
JS: Yeah. Yeah. You don’t know. I, I, I know that you know the actual film, James.
JO: Oh, yeah. Okay.
JS: But this is like the film that people are convinced exists.
AM: Yeah. So, it's like a whole internet conspiracy or like, like, self-generated conspiracy where people just remember a specific version of the actual movie that was – that was just wrong. And there's a – there's like truthers. There's like Shazaam truthers. And it's fascinating. We'll put a link in the show notes.
JO: Oh, my god.
JS: Okay.
JO: That is fascinating actually. I want to know more about it.
AM: Oh, yeah.
JS: Well, you know what people are also convinced of, Amanda and James?
AM: What?
JO: Yes.
JS: A bunch of different Hollywood Urban Legends that never actually happened.
AM: Please give it to me.
JS: So, we're going to start with probably one of the most well-known ones. And this is the legends of the Munchkins Suicide.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: Do you – have you heard of this one, Amanda?
AM: Is it that, in The Wizard of Oz, you can see a body hanging from a tree?
JS: Yes.
AM: Okay.
JS: Okay. But I'm gonna go ahead and start with this one, because it is probably the most well-known. Amanda, you've seen Wizard of Oz, right?
AM: I have. Thank you for giving me a gimme.
JS: Okay.
AM: That you knew that I have at least one time in my life seen the Wizard of Oz full through.
JS: Good. I’m, I'm very glad.
AM: If not, my, my spiritual twin, PJ Scott-Blankenship, would probably murder me in my sleep.
JS: Probably. Probably.
AM: Yep.
JS: So, the Wizard of Oz is one of those films that has definitely earned its place in the Hollywood canon.
AM: Mhmm.
JS: It is one of the first film shot in color and, damn, if they didn't use that color super well.
AM: Oh, they did. Also, I super aspire to that level of, like – I don't know – just like PR generation.
JO: Yeah.
AM: It’s like, “Hey, guess what comes to movies? It's all different now.” And like to, to --
JO: Your shit has changed. Yeah.
AM: -- to, to put that into the world of your film, it’s – I mean I just – I love when like stuff reckons with the medium that it's in, you know. Like, I love tattoos that know where they are on the body. And I love, you know, audio that makes you – like, like uses the thing that it's doing really interestingly. And I think that was [Inaudible 9:13]. It’s like the prim – it's like the cream of the crop – you know, crème de la crème. I said the same thing twice.
JO: Yeah.
JS: Yep.
AM: Example of, of being like, “Hey, guess what? It's a movie you're watching. And now it's all different.”
JS: Yeah. James, do you have any like personal relationship with the Wizard of Oz?
JO: Yeah. You know, I mean it's one of those movies that, as a kid, I used to just watch like a million, trillion times because it would always be on at some given time. And, and Amanda is right. The second that – I mean, even as somebody who had already, you know, obviously seen other TV --
JS: Seen color film before.
JO: But to have it – but, to have it shift over like that, that was like the first time I'd seen that happen in a film as a – as a transition of some kind. And, though my little mind couldn't understand what the significance could be, I just found that – I found that to be super neat. It's really hard to believe that that movie was really not very well received or liked at first.
JS: Yeah, at the beginning. Yeah.
AM: Really?
JS: Yeah.
JO: Yeah.
JS: It was a flop at the – at the time.
AM: Wow.
JO: Yeah.
JS: But a lot of really great stories actually came out of that movie. The story of how the original 10 woodsmen had to be replaced, because he had an allergic reaction to the aluminum powder --
JO: To the paint.
JS: -- in the tint. Yeah, in the paint.
JO: Yeah.
AM: Oh, shit. Is that real?
JS: Yeah. That's 100 percent real.
AM: Wooh.
JS: Also, Professor Marvel, at the beginning of the film, he's like the wizard but in the black and white version.
AM: Right.
JS: So, the costume that was bought for the character by the costumer for that part was bought at a secondhand shop.
AM: Oh, no. Did it belong to a Nazi?
JS: It was – no. It was actually the property of the author of The Wizard of Oz, L. Frank Baum.
JO: Oh, wow.
AM: And they didn't know it?
JS: They didn't know that until later on.
AM: Really?
JS: Yeah.
AM: That is a much better version --
JO: I thought you were gonna say that BUG center or something.
JS: No.
AM: -- of what I thought it was.
JS: No, that’s just like one of those cool coincidence ones.
JO: I went to BUGS, and Amanda went to [Inaudible 10:55]. That's really interesting.
AM: Ooh.
JS: Yeah. I mean I'm sorry that you guys were so negative, especially because we're gonna get real negative in this next part.
AM: Okay.
JS: So, we're gonna talk about the chilling urban legend of the film, The Case of the Hanging Munchkin. So, I'm gonna preface this story as a shitty rumor to start about anyone. And we've discussed on the show before that we take suicide and mythology and urban legends very seriously.
AM: We do.
JS: We’ll – we’ll plug some stuff either at the beginning of this episode or at the end of this episode. But, if you feel it’s like you need help, you can get help and Amanda has the link.
AM: And there is the dopiest organization of all time, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. And you can write down this number right now on your hand, or your phone, or piece paper, or whatever and give it to yourself or a friend or just text them. It's amazing 800-273-8255. That’s the Lifeline and they will help you. And you can talk to them. And no problem is too small or too big to bring up with the very qualified folks that are there to help.
JS: Agreed. This story still persists even though it's been revoked – revoked? That's not the right word.
AM: Rebuked.
JS: Rebuked.
JO: Rebuked.
JS: Listen – listen, necromancy, fuck off.
AM: I will live and die that that is a valid way to pronounce that word.
JS: Nope.
AM: Also, that was a complete emotional yoyo that pretty much represents our friendship.
JS: Yes.
AM: It’s like, “Hey, Julia, I have actual problems and also butts.”
JS: So, rebuked. So, the story goes, when you look in the background of the scene where Dorothy and the Scarecrow encounter and then recruit the Tin Man as they're skipping through the forest saying, “We're off to see the wizard,” you'll notice what looks like a swinging body of someone in the background. The rumor says that it was an actor who played one of the Munchkins who killed himself on set, because he had lost his true love, which I guess like go for more detail. They say liars add way too many details.
AM: Right.
JS: Just go for those extra details like that.
AM: And, and I guess you can only pronounce someone your true love after death.
JS: Yes.
AM: Right? Like --
JS: It’s – it's a Romeo and Juliet.
AM: Yeah. Yeah. Fuck those fucking, fucking adolescent --
JS: Fuck those fucking teens.
AM: -- teenager motherfuckers, god.
JS: Fuck those fucking teens who wore your mom's coat.
AM: Oh.
JS: We did a production, James, in high school of Romeo and Juliet that took place in the 80s.
JO: Oh, yeah.
AM: Yeah. Good.
JS: And they danced the Thriller at the ball scene and the guy playing Romeo wore Amanda's mom's red leather coat.
AM: From the 80s.
JS: From the 80s.
JO: Oh, wow.
AM: And, when she got back, she was like, “This smells like teenage boy.” I was like, “Mom, what did you expect?”
JO: Oh. Sweaty did it? Yeah. Was – was this after the Romeo and Juliet update in the mid-90s or was this --
JS: Yes.
AM: It most certainly was.
JO: Okay.
AM: Because it was 2007.
JO: Got it. Yes.
JS: Was it 2007? Yeah, it was.
AM: Yeah, it was.
JS: Oh, fuck me. That’s so long ago.
AM: It was fucking 11 years ago, Julia.
JS: I’m gonna cry. Okay.
AM: I also got drunk for the first time during that shows. So, I [Inaudible 13:46] for 11 years.
JS: We were talking about that audio drama like today.
AM: We were. So good.
JS: Okay. Anyway.
JO: Always that.
JS: Oh, it – it's still in general. You could check it out.
JO: Okay. I’ll go back and read it.
JS: So, another rumor – oh, fuck. I lost my place. Shit. Okay.
AM: This episode's already 15 minutes long.
JS: Shut up.
AM: I'm so excited. Eric, I'm still sorry.
JO: Like, I’m – I'm really happy to be a – just a derailleur and that's – that's my – yeah.
AM: James, you been very on point. Julia and I are on our third drinks and loopy.
JO: I'm so sorry. I should have – I should have gotten started earlier too.
AM: That’s okay.
JS: That’s okay. It’s okay. So, another rumor says that it was a stagehand who accidentally hung himself on set after falling off a catwalk from above.
AM: No. Surely, this is documented somewhere.
JS: Yes. So, one would assume that it's documented somewhere if it was true.
AM: Right.
JS: Luckily, it's not.
AM: But, wait, is there actually a silhouette on the film?
JO: Yeah.
JS: Yes. And I'm gonna to explain what it is.
AM: Oh, good.
JS: So, all of this is a bunch of bullshit. The prop trees are way too fragile to bear the weight of our person anyway regardless of size.
AM: That’s so true.
JS: So, what was the shadow? Amanda, it's a fucking bird. If you watch the film, you'll notice that there's a lot of large birds, cranes, peacocks, et cetera roaming around the scene prior to and during this.
AM: Oh, my god.
JS: So, the LA Zoo actually provided birds for the film, and they were notoriously hard to wrangle.
AM: I mean they're fucking zoo birds. They're pampered and, and, like, don't have any sense of boundaries.
JS: So, the birds kept showing up in random places in scenes where they were not supposed to be in.
AM: Oh, my god.
JS: So, it wasn't surprising in the slightest to see this random crane in the background.
AM: Also, do you remember how – okay. So, Julia is in my theater program in high school. It was very intense. You have to audition in middle school to get into the high school theatre program.
JS: Yes. So, you were a 13-year-old auditioning for this very intense program.
AM: Right. Yeah. Or 12 sometimes.
JO: Perfect.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah. And it was very – a lot of pressure. Seriously, there was like a three-part audition process. Only like 25 to 30 kids were accepted every year from our middle school with, like, 1000 kids.
JS: Two middle schools.
AM: There was only one adult in the whole program. So, there was like one – there was one director who taught theatre classes and, occasionally, other electives that the administration made him teach during the school year. And we had, like, a period of drama during the day. And then he just directed the show. He told us what to do. He's like, “Here, Amanda, do lighting for the show.” And I was like, “Cool. I'll figure it out.” And I said to Julia’s fiancée, Jake, and other, you know guys, on the – on the tech crew mostly like, “Hey, here's the set I want. Make it.” And then, at one point before the show actually opens – like, four or five days before the show opened, some other adult – I forgot his name – would just come into the --
JS: Rory. It was Rory.
AM: Oh, Rory. Fucking Rory, god.
JS: The guy’s name is Rory.
AM: Rory would come jump on the platforms. Like, if we --
JS: To make sure they were sturdy enough.
JO: Oh.
AM: If we had like, like a two story set, which most of the time they were, he would just come up jump on the platform and be like, “Seems fine,” and then leave.
JS: Rory is okay. Yeah.
AM: And that was – that was all of the health and safety that we were --
JO: Yeah.
AM: -- we were given during our drama career.
JO: [Inaudible 16:48].
AM: So, like a bunch of – bunch of 15, 16, 17-year-old people were just like, “I bet this paint doesn’t have lead. It’s fine. I bet this flat is gonna hold us up. I guess it’s okay.” And, you know --
JO: That was only 11 years ago, huh?
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JO: It kind of feels like this shouldn’t been --
AM: And I was like, “I don't know how circuitry or voltage works. But, hopefully, I won't blow the schools breakers if I plug in all these lights,” which I did many times.
JS: Yep. It feels like the 80s wasn't the 80s.
AM: Feels like the 80s --
JO: Yeah, it felt very much like the 80s there actually.
AM: -- was very – was very close ago.
JS: Oh, god. We're easily able to debunk the case of the hanging Munchkin. But there are some ones that aren't as easily debunked like that.
AM: Oh, shit. You bait and switched me with an easy one.
JS: I did. So, we're going to the Curse of the Omen.
AM: Ooh.
JS: Movies that have some creepy stuff happening both on film and off. Amanda, have you seen The Omen?
AM: Hoo. Okay.
JS: Oh, boy. Here we go. This is what I was hoping for. Let's do it.
AM: Okay. So, I'm gonna tell you some facts about horror movies that I know. And you're gonna tell me if any of them are in the same movie?
JS: Nope. Okay.
AM: So, there's – there's one with a – with a TV. And they're static. And it's scary.
JS: That's the Ring.
JO: Uh-huh.
AM: Okay.
JO: No.
AM: There's --
JO: No, not necessarily. That could also be Poltergeist.
JS: It could, but I don't think it is.
JO: I'm sorry. Okay.
AM: Yeah. I, I don't think so.
JO: Probably, The Ring then. You’re probably right.
JS: We’re also going to talk about that later. It's fine. It's fine.
AM: There’s Nightmare on Elm Street, which we just watched. I know that one.
JS: Yes.
JO: That is good.
AM: There's one with a multi mask.
JO: Multi mask.
AM: The Scream?
JS: Scream? Okay
AM: Yes, Scream. Scream.
JO: Oh, The Scream.
JS: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
AM: This one with – is it Jodie Foster in a phone. She's a babysitter. Like, sexy babysitter and the guy is outside.
JS: Okay. No.
AM: Is that also Scream? I don’t know.
JS: No. That’s also Scream.
AM: Okay.
JS: And it’s Drew Barrymore.
AM: Okay. Okay. That’s exciting.
JS: Doing good. Doing good.
AM: And then there's – there's little blonde child who has a demon in him.
JS: That's the Omen, Amanda.
AM: Yay.
JS: Good job. I’m so proud of you. I’m so proud. It’s so good.
AM: Thank you. Thank you.
JO: We believed in you.
AM: Thank you.
JS: So, --
AM: I bet my good feeling isn't gonna last.
JS: So, The Omen, which originally came out in 1976, was about the antichrist --
AM: What?
JS: -- being born and given to a wealthy American political family.
AM: Oh, shit.
JS: That was living in England for some reason. I don't remember the point. I think it was a diplomat of some sort.
AM: Also, I love that it's like, “Hey, privilege, fuck you.” Like, that's a pretty good – that's pretty good.
JS: Yeah. So, already up to a great start with something super creepy and cool, but, when you apparently start getting creepy curses involved, then things kind of get really interesting.
AM: All right.
JS: But, first things first, on the flight back and forth from England, star, Gregory Peck, and producer, Mace Neufeld, which fucking good name --
JO: Oh, yeah.
JS: -- on separate flights, both had their planes struck by lightning. Producer, Harvey Bernhard’s flight also had a near miss with lightning.
AM: Oh, shit.
JS: Another good airplane fact, the airplane that was chartered by the studio for aerial shots but was switched at the last minute – the new plane was completely successful for the filming. While the original plane that they had booked, crashed immediately after takeoff killing everyone on board.
AM: Whoa.
JS: Yeah.
AM: That's a lot of, like, aviation mishaps.
JO: That’s a lot of plane [Inaudible 19:55]. Yeah.
JS: That’s a lot of aviation mishaps. Yep. I’m with you on that.
AM: And I know that like, you know, plane safety has gotten better each year. And, so, the 80s, you know, was different I guess. But like, that’s a lot.
JO: Yeah, you can smoke in the planes back then. Yeah.
AM: The seven – fuck.
JS: 70s.
AM: That feels so long ago. Was that child – is that child now a famous actor also?
JO: No.
JS: I have no fucking clue. I don't think so. James.
JO: No, he's not. No. No, he's not. He's not. No.
JS: All right.
JO: But then Sam Neil went on to play in one of the sequence to play that kid.
AM: [Inaudible 20:22].
JS: You know, let me try what happened to the baby. So, the hotel that the producers and actors were staying at during filming was bombed by the IRA while they were filming.
AM: Fuck.
JS: No one died, thankfully, but that's the thing that happened.
AM: Also, I'm so sorry on behalf of Ireland.
JS: Yeah, sorry about that.
AM: That was a lot. That was a lot of bad stuff. A lot of bad stuff.
JS: The animal handler for the film was attacked and eaten by lions.
AM: What? What were those circumstance? I’m yelling off mic, because I’m yelling. Julia, what?
JS: Amanda, it took place after the film.
JO: After. Yeah.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Fuck.
JS: After doing the Omen, the next movie that stuntman, Alf Joint, which, again, great name.
AM: One more time.
JS: Alf Joint.
AM: Alf Joint.
JS: Alf Joint.
AM: Wow. What other career could you have with that name?
JS: Nothing. You can’t do anything.
AM: Weed dealer or that.
JS: Which, which like I think he might have retired, because the next film that he did, an unknown assailant pushed him off a building while he was trying to get ready. And he broke all the bones and almost died.
AM: What?
JS: That’s – this is what this entire episode is me stating facts and then Amanda going, “What? What?” I love it.
AM: Also, Alf Joint should have retired and then become a DJ.
JS: Yeah, I hope he did. Lastly, there's the incident of John Richardson.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: So, Richardson was a phenomenal special effects artist. He was responsible for all the cool deaths that happened in the Omen, but, specifically, the decapitation of David Warner's character. Have you seen – you’ve seen this film? Yes?
AM: No.
JS: Okay.
AM: I remember the kid standing on the balcony looking creepy. That’s about it.
JS: Okay. Is it a piece of glass that decapitates him?
JO: It’s a plate of glass. Yeah.
JS: Yeah. So, a plate glass like falls from a construction site above him while he's trying to warn someone that this child is the antichrist.
AM: Yikes.
JS: And it just decapitates him.
AM: Yoinks.
JS: It’s – and it’s like – for 1976, Amanda, real good special effects.
AM: Ooh. How did he do it?
JO: Yes.
JS: I don't remember. I'll have – I'll have someone look it up later. It will be Jake probably.
AM: We’ll have our researcher do it.
JS: Yeah. So, it's like one of the most iconic, like, horror movie deaths.
JO: Yeah, it’s pretty dope.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Like, ever.
JO: Yeah.
JS: Yeah. John Richardson was not able to escape the curse of the film.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: Two months after the movie’s premiere, Richardson was in a major car accident with his girlfriend at the time, Liz Moore. As a result of the accident, Moore was killed via decapitation right in front of Richardson’s eyes in almost the same exact way that Richardson created in the film.
JO: Yeah, that’s crazy.
AM: Oh, lord. What are the odds?
JS: Yeah. It was – it's real bad.
AM: Fuck.
JS: Yeah.
JO: Yeah, those are bad omens.
JS: Yeah, that’s a bad. Thank you, James.
AM: Thanks.
JS: That’s a real bad omen.
JO: We needed a dad joke in there, right? You guys asked me to do the dad jokes, right?
JS: Yeah, you got it. Thank you.
JO: Okay. Just making sure.
JS: Yes, that's what you're here for.
JO: Got it.
JS: Amanda's here with the queer dad jokes and you're here with regular dad jokes.
AM: Aww.
JS: Cute.
AM: Aww. Adorable.
JS: We're next going to move on to another good horror movie that James already mentioned, The Curse of Poltergeist.
AM: What is Poltergeist besides Peeves the best character in Harry Potter?
JO: Oh, it’s a really good movie.
JS: Who they cut completely out of the movies. And it's just all fucked up.
AM: Seriously, a fucking tragedy.
JS: Yes.
AM: A tragedy.
JS: I agree.
AM: Our national tragedy. Forget the Presidency.
JO: This will not stand.
AM: It's Peeves.
JS: It's Peeves not staying in the film.
AM: Peeves missing from a bunch of British movies.
JS: Well, when they remake --
AM: That’s the American national tragedy.
JS: When they make the Harry Potter miniseries, I'm sure they'll get someone to play Peeves.
AM: Oh, my god. I’m – Julia, I need like a – I need truly a seven series miniseries.
JS: Yes, I agree. I’m not – you're not wrong.
AM: I'm staring at you. Like, you make this happen right now.
JS: You’re like, “Fucking manipulate reality and make it happen right now.”
AM: Make it happen.
JS: Yeah.
JO: I feel like I'm missing so much over here. I feel like I should be there to, to witness all of this stuff.
JS: I mean we wish James. Come to New York again, please.
JO: I will. No, I will actually.
JS: Anytime.
JO: Yeah.
JS: Yeah. You better.
JO: We’ll go out, and we’ll go party.
JS: I didn’t mean for that to sound threatening. I was just, “You better.”
JO: You better.
JS: Fuck.
AM: Remember that plate glass? You better.
JO: Okay. I’m – I'm getting my tickets.
JS: Shit. You booked that flight right now. All right. So, Poltergeist, Amanda, do you know anything about Poltergeist?
AM: Nothing.
JS: All right. Directed by Steven Spielberg actually.
AM: Oh, really?
JS: One of the first movies that I --
AM: A Jaws [Inaudible 24:36].
JS: Yeah.
AM: Did he do Jaws? Did Steven Spielberg do Jaws?
JO: Yeah. Okay. Well, all right. So, I – okay. So, I think that this movie actually was directed by Tobe Hooper.
JS: No, wasn’t it --
JO: Tobe Hooper.
JS: Oh, sorry. Written and produced by Steven Spielberg.
JO: There you go.
JS: Thank you.
JO: Sorry. I’m sorry.
JS: Much – no, please. Please correct me on this because people on Twitter will instead.
JO: I got to – I’m here to nerd out for you, you know. No, you're right. You're right. I’m here to help.
AM: People on Twitter will explain it to us.
JS: We don't want that.
JO: And not – not to mention I also screwed up the man's name. So, it's – it's okay.
JS: Okay. I trust you.
JO: I'll get killed on that.
JS: It's totally fine. So this, this next one, I asked Jake specifically what Hollywood urban legends he would want to hear about it. And his immediate response was, “Talk about Poltergeist.” Thank you. Thank you, baby. I love you. So, we're going to talk about Poltergeist, because I love my fiancé very much. So --
JO: That’s a big one too. You can't ignore it.
JS: I mean it's hard – it's hard not to. So, for people who haven't seen the movie, Amanda included --
AM: That’s me.
JS: -- it is the story of the Freeling family, which is mom, dad, three kids who moved to a idyllic suburban community only for it to be disturbed first by playful ghosts and then, eventually, become a literal hellscape.
AM: Okay. So, playful ghost I can get behind.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Playful ghost bring it. We will like make life fun. Play some pranks. We’ll like levitate some stuff.
JS: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.
AM: I'll be like, “Hey, you can, like, up to my jar of dried beans hilariously if you also bring me my AC remote.”
JS: So, Amanda is – Amanda's very into the first 40 minutes of Poltergeist.
JO: Yes. No, that is like a first 40 minutes of the Poltergeist.
JS: And then the rest of it – and then the rest of it, she's like, “Nah.”
AM: All right. So, what happens next?
JS: So, it wasn't just a hellscape crafted by Steven Spielberg. It lasted well after filming was done.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: The first person to fall victim to the Poltergeist’s curse was Dominick Dunne who played the oldest Freeling daughter. Dana I think was the character's name, James.
JO: Yep. Yep.
JS: Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. So, her career was just starting to pick up when she was strangled to death by her abusive boyfriend.
JO: Yeah. I know.
AM: Ooh.
JS: The boyfriend was convicted of voluntary manslaughter, which is also, “What the fuck? It's not manslaughter --
JO: Right.
JS: -- if you choke someone to death.
JO: Maybe because they were trying to shove it under some sort of passion of, of – crime of passion sort of thing.
JS: No, still fucked up.
JO: And they’re like it wasn’t premeditated. But no, no, no. It was a murder.
AM: Still fuck the boyfriend.
JS: It was murder.
JS: Yeah.
JO: I'm just saying, like, it was the 80s, you know.
JS: Yeah.
JO: And, you know, sometimes --
JS: Yeah.
AM: And things we're different. People different, you know.
JO: You know, these things happened in the 80s, you know.
JS: Yeah.
JO: They didn't know any better back then.
JS: Yeah. Sure.
AM: But you know what? They’re – we, we know better now.
JO: No, we do.
AM: And, if we are in a situation where you think you need help, or you want to talk, or some signs are kind of odd, or you need your resources kind of laid out to you by somebody who can help, go to --
JS: Amanda has another phone number.
AM: -- go to rainn.org.
JS: Yeah.
AM: R - A - I - N - N.org. They can help.
JS: I appreciate that. Thank you, Amanda.
JO: Absolutely.
JS: Also, this jackass was paroled after less than four years served. So, fuck him.
AM: Fuck him. Fuck you off.
JO: Fuck him.
JS: But that, that wasn't the only death to come out of the Poltergeist. The youngest daughter who was taken by the beast, which is the name of the Poltergeist in this. In the first film, it was played by Heather O'Rourke. And she was discovered by Steven Spielberg himself. She also starred in all three of the Poltergeist films, but she died before the third premiered.
AM: No.
JS: She was apparently a like really healthy kid who came down with a case of the flu, which led to a heart attack at the age of 12.
AM: What?
JS: Yeah.
AM: That sounds like a may cause thing in pharmaceutical commercials.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Where like it happened to one person. So, they have to say it. Which I mean good --
JO: Yeah.
JS: Heather O'Rourke was that person I guess.
AM: -- but like fuck.
JS: Yeah.
JO: Yeah. I actually don't think she finished the whole third film. They had to, like, use, like, the back of some stunt double little girl thing to --
JS: That's probably – probably right.
JO: -- to get by.
JS: Several other older cast members died before the – their films premiered, including Julian Beck and Will Sampson who were both the antagonist and the protagonist for the second film, I believe.
AM: No.
JO: Yeah.
JS: Yeah. So, that's the – that's the Poltergeist curse, curse. James, do you have anything to add for that one?
JO: Yeah, that was pretty bad. I remember as a kid, like, Heather – Heather O'Rourke and I were around the same age. So, when she died, I was like, “What?” Like, it just seem like so --
AM: I thought you were gonna say you went to school together. And I was like, “James, you bury the lead.”
JO: No. I know. No. No. Oh, I know. No. No. But I remember that was – it was such a monumental moment though as like a little kid and, like, seeing someone else that you've seen in two other movies and she's – she's a little girl like you are – like, you’re a little boy. And, therefore, she just dies – up and dies for like almost no reason. Completely mysterious at the time. Like, when we it was reported. But it was kind of spooky. Like, you're like, “Whoa. No. No. That's not supposed to happen yet, you know.”
AM: Yeah.
JO: So, yeah, that was – that, that left an impression as a kid. So, yeah, I remember that. I mean the whole Poltergeist thing, especially her sister too – the girl who played her sister in the movie having been murdered. That was also – you know, it was just – it was really just a weird thing.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yikes.
JO: Just – yeah.
JS: Oh, boy. On that note, Amanda, I think I need a refill.
AM: Yes. I’m gonna need one too.
Midroll Music
AM: We are sponsored this week by Audible. They sponsored us before. We liked them a lot. We love stories. We love audio. And, so, this is a awesome pairing for us.
JS: Yes, they are the Venn diagram of things that we like.
AM: And, if you already are like, “Yo! Audible. Like, I know that I should listen to books. I know that I want to do this. I know that I want like long form audio in my ears or my car or my, you know, smart home devices all the time. You can go right ahead to audible.com/spirits or text the word Spirits to 500-500 to get that URL and sign up for a free trial and audiobook.
JS: Yeah. Amanda, do you have a good suggestion for an audiobook that our listeners can listen to?
AM: I actually do. I am traveling soon after the day this episode comes out. I’m going on vacation. I’m very excited about it.
JS: I'm super jealous. Go ahead.
AM: And something that I love to do when I'm on vacation is read murder mysteries. And, often, vacation will involve like trying to nap on a plane, but you can't really get to sleep. But it's not – it's like dark eyes and can't really read. Blah, blah, blah. And I like to listen to scary murder stories to get me to sleep.
JS: Do you?
AM: One of the things that Julia and I have in common is a love of the, you know, macabre. And I really love murder novels. My favorite author I think writing today is Tana French, who writes this Dublin Murder Squad Series. I love them.
JS: Yes. Yep. I know you do.
AM: I probably mentioned them in passing before, but this is the first time that I've listened to an audiobook of one of her novels. And the one I want to recommend is called The Secret Place. If you read The Secret History by Donna Tartt, you are going to love this book. This one is The Secret Place, not The Secret History. Both are really good. But, in The Secret Place by Tana French, a police officer goes undercover into a group of like really rich, spoiled, shady college student.
JS: Cool.
AM: And they're in a like decaying house on the moors. And there is nothing more, like, luxurious and both despicable but also lovely. The writing is really good. It's not super long. So, you can kind of get through it, you know, on the beach, on a train, on a plane. And it is really, really dope.
JS: That's awesome.
AM: Yeah.
JS: That sounds really, really cool.
AM: She's written I think six books. I read all of them twice --
JS: Wow.
AM: -- because I'm so sad that there are not more of them.
JS: Dang. I have a recommendation.
AM: Ooh, tell me about it.
JS: So, this book actually just came out. It came out the day that we're recording it.
AM: Whoa.
JS: And, of course, the first thing I did was go to Audible and get my audio book for it. But it is called Children of Blood & Bone by Tomi Adeyemi.
AM: Sign me up.
JS: And it is – reading it, Amanda – I'm only 12 chapters in at this point. But, reading it, Amanda, it reminds me of reading Harry Potter for the first time.
AM: Wow. High praise.
JS: It, it takes place in sort of a fantasy West Africa. And it is a world where magic once existed, but, for some reasons, the gods deigned to take magic away. But something is happening where magic is slowly returning to people. It’s very, very cool.
AM: I love that idea so much. We talk all the time about how much we love like nuanced depictions of magic. That sounds right up my alley. I think I am gonna go to audible.com/spirits, sign up for a free trial, get a free audiobook, and download that one.
JS: Yeah. If, if you liked our rain queens episode, this is very in the same vein. And it's very, very cool.
AM: And Audible has a great listen guarantee. So, if you choose that book or different book and you don't like it, you can swap it out for something else. So, it's not like you commit, you know, and that's the last you ever gonna see of, you know, the money that you spent. So, they are really, really great for that. You can access your books anywhere. You own them. So, even after you, you know, perhaps suspend or pause your service, you're still able to access all of your books. You own them, which I think is really, really great.
JS: So, thank you, Audible, for sponsoring this episode of Spirits. And I think it's time to get back to the crazy drunk stories.
AM: Back to the show.
JS: Yeah. So, James, I, I understand that you brought a story with you for this one.
JO: I did. I did, because this is one of the worst ones that I know of.
JS: All right. Sweet.
JO: As far as like one of those – yeah, one of those creepy haunted movie productions. And it also happens to be one of the fewer known films that have been made period. Its claim to fame is that it's a – it was I do believe the first movie to be shot in Esperanto.
JS: Wooh.
JO: Do you guys know what Esperanto is?
AM: Yeah.
JS: Yeah. Say – tell, tell it for our listeners though, because – just because Amanda and I are aware.
JO: Okay. No, that's okay. You guys know. No. Yeah. Esperanto was, was basically, I do believe, a language that was sort of created and – in like I think 1887 or something like that. And it was intended to be like this blend of different languages. And it was meant to be a universal language. One that which could, you know, unify them all or whatever and, and just never really took off.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah, there are some – there are some ficts written in Esperanto on Our Game of Our Own.
JS: Really? Really?
AM: Yes, really.
JS: Oh, what pairings. Tell me.
AM: I will bring them up right now as James talks.
JS: Okay.
JO: Okay. Yeah. No problem. So, yeah, this movie was one of the first movies or the only movie really to – at that time, to be made in Esperanto. The reason being wasn't exactly 100 percent clear. You know, depending on who you talk to from the crew, some of it was either – it was meant to be as a gimmick or to ensure its niche amongst people that were supposedly speaking it. And the other – one that I tend to believe is the one where it's like, because it has this sort of kind of like a spooky quality to it because you can't quite place the language, they had liked the idea of shooting the movie in this way. And they also wanted to appeal, at the time, to an arthouse crowd, which,, you know, they weren't a big budgeted film. So, they were going to shoot for that. Now, arthouse films at the time in 1966, when this movie was set to be released, weren't that huge of a thing, but, at least, they, they existed. And they – you could get sometimes, you know, your movie in there. It just had to be a certain type of movie or you are relegated to a drive-in sort of thing, a grindhouse. And, usually, then you'd have to get like recut with like nudity and things like that to – in order to really succeed.
JS: Of course. Obviously
JO: Right. So, --
AM: As an update --
JO: Yes.
AM: -- on Archive of Our Own, which is the best fanfiction website --
JS: Hot take.
AM: -- here are the following ficts available in Esperanto. One for Sherlock. There's one for Power Rangers’ Time Force, for Teen Wolf, for Fire Emblem. I don’t know what that is.
JS: What's the – what's the pairing for Fire Emblem?
AM: The Fire Emblem, it is George/My Unit.
JS: I have no fucking clue.
AM: And to Chris.
JS: Okay.
AM: Interesting.
JO: Oh, they must dig the tit.
AM: There’s Starman TV. Supernatural, Devilman, Kamen Rider. And that's about it.
JS: All right.
JO: Wow.
AM: So, fandom rich tapestry.
JO: There’s a lot though.
JS: And I like the Time Force Power Rangers one. That’s pretty fantastic too.
JO: I’m taking the Teen Wolf. Teen Wolf is – oh, wait. This got to be the TV Teen Wolf then actually.
JS: Yeah. Not the – not the good --
AM: Yeah. No. No. No.
JS: Not a good one.
JO: Oh. Oh, I was thinking like, you know, like, good old fashioned Michael J. Fox, Teen Wolf in Esperanto fanfic.
JS: Shit. That would be ridiculous though.
AM: Anyway, back to the movie.
JS: Sorry.
JO: Oh, back to the movie. Yes. All right. So, the movie was released in 1966, Directed by Leslie Stevens, who was mostly known as a writer. He did a lot of writing for Outer Limits and had also done, later on, Buck Rogers. Now, the movie is about or, at least starts, with a pair of sisters that are succubus. They’re succubi.
AM: Awesome.
JO: Great.
JS: So, love it already.
JO: And I'm sure you guys – right. Right. Exactly. Shot in black and white. So, basically, their whole deal is that they lure bad men, you know, from the town that they're in out to the sea where they drown them.
JS: Hey, this movie is great already.
JO: Right. I see. There's also another – there's levels to this as to why am I brought this. I totally felt that it would be up your alley, guys.
JS: I appreciate it.
JO: So, look, the younger sister though, begins to desire – have bigger, loftier desires in maybe not seducing the, the evil men because they're kind of easy game. She starts getting the idea that she wants to try to lure good men. So, she sets out to do so. And she finds this virtuous a god-fearing man in William Shatner --
JS: Of course.
JO: -- who is the lone --
JS I mean who else? Who fucking else?
JO: All right. I buried that on purpose because I knew you guys would dig that.
JS: Good job.
JO: William Shatner is our virtuous hero and completely sends --
AM: Oh, my god, said no one ever.
JO: I know, right? I mean just look at him for five seconds.
JS: The first time you said – this were uttered.
JO: And you know he's got bad things on his brain. So, she sets out to, to lure this man only to fall in love with him instead.
AM: Mistake number two after luring him.
JO: Right. Exactly.
JS: This sounds like – what is that – the mermaid movie with the light cannibalism, Amanda?
JO: Oh, The Lore?
JS: Yes. Yes. That’s what it sounds like.
AM: That one. Yes, good one.
JO: Yeah. No, I haven't actually watched that one yet.
AM: Never fall in love with the Sea God is rule number one. Never fall in love with the Shatner is rule number two.
JS: Oh, shit.
JO: Exactly. I would – I would kind of think it goes like A – 1A and 1B, right?
JS: Yes. Yes. Like it's --
AM: Yes.
JO: Those two rules.
JS: -- the same rule, just broken down.
AM: Oh, James.
JO: Yeah.
AM: You, you combined my two favorite things, which are rules and also hierarchy.
JO: You know, I'm here – I'm here to help. So, she falls in love with this guy, right? And her sister gets really upset by this, you know, because, in some way, he's – he's, you know, defiled her and, and, you know, ruined her, her purpose and also offends her by taking her into a church. Yeah. No, he did – he did a bad thing. So, she runs away. And, to get revenge on him, they both concoct this idea of, of summoning an Incubus, which I’m – I don't actually – I should have looked up what an Incubus is. I know you guys probably already know. 'm assuming it's the male version of a succubus. Am I correct?
JS: Yeah, it's just really – it's just a dude succubus.
AM: Yep.
JO: It's a dude succubus. Right.
JS: Yeah.
AM: They, for some reason, didn't want to make the term dudeubus a thing, but here we are.
JS: Fuck dudeubus.
JO: Dudeubus.
AM: Here we are.
JO: Exactly. Dudeubus. That was a hard one to get your, your lips around though. So, you know, it – it’s all okay.
JS: Yeah.
JO: They summon this guy. And they have – they set him upon – well, intended to kill William Shatner's character. But, instead, he finds the Shatner's virginous younger sister.
JS: Of course.
JO: As one does, he then proceeds to defile her and murder --
JS: Yes.
AM: Oh. Oh.
JO: And yeah.
JS: Doing good. Loving it so far.
JO: Yeah, I know. It's really – I know. It's really – it's got – it's got everything. All of the, the classic beats. And, so, from there, it’s just like this big struggle that they go through that ultimately culminates in the younger sister deciding that she will go with this, this man that she is fallen in love with and that loves her, but not before she has to make the sign of the cross turning the Incubus into a black goat who then attacks her.
AM: Aaaah, didn’t see that coming.
JS: Aaaah.
JO: But, you know, it all works out in the end anyway. So – I know, right? I was – I --
AM: James, [Inaudible 40:42] and also goats I love it.
JO: I know. Yeah. It's such – it's such a neat movie. And I haven't watched it in a really long time. And I remember though, if I could – before getting into like the particulars of what makes this whole thing horrible, the guy who played the Incubus was just really insanely captivating. Like, he was just really – there's something creepy enough about the dude. And, and there's a reason for that. So, a few things that happened post production on the movie, the girl who played the virginal young sister to William Shatner's character, she committed suicide just after the filming wrapped like by a couple of weeks. She had – she – her name was Ann Atmar. And she had somewhat a mild career in girlie magazines, apparently. But there's really not much known about as to the why or how she went about committing suicide. That was mentioned and I figured that maybe there's – you know, with the stigma of that at the time, you know, that maybe that there was some element of, of that, that being the reason. But --
AM: Yeah, blackmail or like morality laws or something kind of – exactly.
JO: Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean there's – there – there was that pressure at the time that there was that stigma about that. So, you know, if her film crew wasn't doing that great and she was having to rely on that, maybe, maybe that was a reason. But that's all speculation on my part. So, there's also the older woman – the older succubus sister. Her daughter was – like, back in 1968, was kidnapped from their driveway outside their home.
JS: Holy shit.
AM: Noo!
JO: Yes. Yeah. Just right outside their house, their 17-year-old daughter was kidnapped.
AM: Fuck.
JO: And her body was found in the Hollywood Hills, like, two weeks later. Never solved. Never solved.
JS: Oh, [Inaudible 42:22], that’s not good.
AM: Wow.
JS: The next movie that we're going to talk about is – was written and directed by Leonard Nimoy.
AM: Oh, the better half of Star Trek --
JS: Of those two.
AM: -- original series.
JS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, I should preface. I've never seen Three Men and a Baby before.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: It is not a movie that I've seen, but it has the spooky thing in it. So, --
AM: Is that not the subtitle of the Hangover?
JO: Nope.
JS: It’s not.
JO: But I think I find it – it's probably inspiration for it. I think that’s really it
JS: Probably. So --
AM: All right. Let's fucking gear up, y'all.
JS: -- it's the story of three bachelor's having to take care of a surprise infant together.
AM: Are you sure it's not a nontraditional family of three poly gay dudes?
JS: I am – I am 100 percent sure.
JO: I'm thinking that comes up though in the film a few times.
JS: I, I don't know, I've never seen it. It was actually the highest grossing film of 1987.
AM: Oh, wow. Sounds like a dark year.
JS: So, despite the fact that it is a more lighthearted movie than most of the ones that we've covered so far, with the exception of Wizard of Oz, I guess, it was – it has a rumored scene that is the talk of many. The scene in question is a long take. No cuts. That features Celeste Holm, who plays one of the character’s mothers carrying the titular baby throughout the apartment in which all the men are staying in. So, in the background, at first in the scene, you see what looks like a rifle.
AM: Okay.
JS: And then the grim visage of an angry boy hiding behind the curtains and peering out at them.
AM: Fucking Polonius behind the arras style. Fuck you.
JS: So, legend behind it is that the apartment the movie was filmed in was the scene of a grisly suicide by rifle and that the boy who himself haunted the set and made an appearance.
AM: Oh, no. No.
JS: So, interestingly --
AM: No, no, no, no.
JS: -- the story was stoked by emergence of the VHS. You good?
AM: Yeah.
JS: It was stoked by the emergence of the VHS.
JO: No.
AM: No.
JS: For the first time, folks could like buy a VHS, go back, rewind and pause in order to prove their point --
AM: Wow. Right.
JS: -- and obsess over details.
JO: Oh, my god.
AM: And, therefore, the TV recap culture of the internet begin.
JS: Exactly.
JO: Yes.
JS: But, much like the Wizard of Oz, this urban legend doesn't hold much water.
JO: No.
JS: The apartment that they shot the film in wasn't even an actual apartment. It was in a soundstage in Toronto.
AM: Okay. That's like basic, y’all.
JS: Yeah. But – so, what was the creepy silhouette that you can clearly see on the background?
AM: Yeah.
JO: I'm not gonna answer, because I know.
AM: Was it – was it like a producer's kid?
JS: No. Obviously, it was a cardboard cutout of Ted Danson.
JO: Yep. Yikes.
JS: So, the character Ted Danson plays in the film is an actor. And, originally, there was going to be a scene featuring a cut or cut out advertisement of him advertising dog food.
AM: Oh, my god.
JS: But the scene was eventually cut out of the film leaving the inexplicable cardboard cutout in the background.
JO: Yep.
AM: Wow.
JO: Yeah, that’s pretty sense --
AM: I love it so much better than the myth.
JS: It's so good.
AM: That’s so good.
JS: It's just like Ted Danson in like a top hat and tails. And it looks like an angry boy --
AM: Jesus.
JO: Yeah.
JS: -- in the background because it's a VHS, and it's blurry.
JO: It's out of focus. Yeah. It’s out of focus. It's completely out of focus. You can't really see what it is. So, even if you paused it, good luck.
JS: Yeah.
JO: But I, I love the fact – the imagination on that.
JS: And like imagine the – imagine like grainy 80s VHS films too. Like, of course, it's gonna look like a creepy boy. It's Ted Danson in a top hat and tails.
JO: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Also, like the worst nightmare of like an assistant director or lighting designer on that set probably.
JS: Yeah, 100 fucking percent.
AM: I love it. I love it.
JS: We're gonna move on to one that isn't really film-related, but it's still Hollywood-related.
AM: All right.
JS: And that is the story of James Dean's cursed car.
AM: All right. So, James Dean flamed bright, died young, wore a leather jacket, is a lesbian fashion icon, and was in a very bad movie about young people.
JS: Rebel Without a Cause.
AM: That one.
JS: Mhmm.
AM: Yep.
JS: Good, good job, Amanda.
AM: That’s all I got. That’s all I got.
JO: Good job. No, it was great.
JS: So --
AM: Listen, he's a lesbian fashion icon. I, I know my lesbian fashion icons.
JS: That’s very important. So, as you mentioned, James Dean is the --
AM: William Shatner, also lesbian fashion icon.
JS: Really?
AM: Yeah.
JO: Not Spock. No?
AM: His, his original series, Outfits, pretty good.
JS: Yeah. All right. All right.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, as you mentioned, Amanda, James Dean is the epitome of dying too young when you think of classic Hollywood.
AM: Mhmm.
JS: He died in 1955 in the Porsche 55 Spyder that became infamous as the car that killed him. But the question is, “Was the car cursed?”
AM: I don't know. Was it?
JS: We're gonna find out.
AM: Probably not.
JS: So, James Dean upgraded to the 55 Spyder while he was filming Rebel Without a Cause and had it customized with tartan seats, to red stripes over the rear wheels.
AM: No. No.
JS: And the plaster number 130 on the doors, hood, and engine cover.
AM: Oh, no.
JS: It was nicknamed little bastard --
AM: Nope.
JS: -- by Dean’s language coach.
AM: No.
JS: And it was a sweet fucking car.
AM: No.
JS: And it looks real good.
AM: No.
JS: But, apparently, this sweet ride was absolutely sinister.
AM: It's like when you look at pictures of your parents in the late 70s wearing extreme bell bottoms and you're like, “Nope.” Like, how, how did they --
JO: That’s a no.
AM: No. No.
JS: The 50s were a weird time. Anyway.
JO: Or you see that picture of them being cool like in a way which you've never seen.
AM: Right. Right. Where they’re crossing t heir arms.
JS: I don’t own any of those photos of my parents.
AM: Julia.
JS: Yeah?
AM: Your dad has so many photos of him being cool in the 80s.
JS: He has so many like mustaches though.
AM: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.
JS: No, not cool.
AM: That’s the best.
JS: No, arguably not.
JO: I guess it depends on perspective really.
JS: Yeah. You’re right.
AM: The best for comical purposes. I love you though.
JS: Okay. So, James Dean once met the actor Alec Guinness. You know who Alec Guinness is, Amanda?
AM: Mhmm.
JS: Who?
AM: Irish guy.
JS: Okay.
JO: You – no, you know.
JS: What was – what was his most popular role?
AM: I don't know.
JS: You might know him as Obi-Wan Kenobi.
JO: Booyah.
AM: Oh, that guy? Wait. Was he Irish?
JS: Yeah, I guess maybe. I don’t know. He's like – he was like a prompt British man I think --
AM: Oh, okay.
JS: -- if I believe correctly who basically, if you read his letters while he's writing Star Wars, he just hated every minute of it.
JO: Yeah, he was ashamed.
JS: It’s just him complaining about the rest of the cast.
JO: He was ashamed.
AM: Very relatable.
JS: Mhmm. It's just a hardcore relatable
AM: I love it.
JS: So, James Dean met Alec Guinness outside of restaurant. And James was like, “Check out my cool car, Alec Guinness,” in which Alec Guinness was probably not super into. So, Guinness takes one look at the Spyder and told James Dean that the car had a “sinister appearance.”
AM: And by whose account was this story relayed?
JS: Alec Guinness.
AM: All right. So, he has the like Yoda, you know, esque powers of --
JS: Sure.
AM: -- foretelling in this story.
JS: Yes. Well, no, he then goes – he says these words that would come to haunt the car. He goes, “If you get in that car, you will be found dead in it by this time next week.”
AM: I super don't believe it, because Alec Guinness is mythologizing himself.
AM: Hey, Amanda, guess what happened seven days later?
AM: That he died.
JS: Dean was killed in Little Bastard in a tragic car accident. It is some straight up Ring shit that Alec Guinness wished upon him.
AM: But I – but I bet that Alec Guinness was just like, “I hate myself in my career. So, let me just invent a mythology about foretelling James Dean's death.”
JS: Probably. I'm not gonna say he wrong.
JO: He was always cranky, that guy.
JS: He was always cranky 100 percent.
AM: He seems very cranky. In the movie, he's like, “Ugh.” That's his role.
JS: Yes, basically.
JO: He’s like, “Ugh.”
AM: Ugh, the force.
JS: Agh, the force.
AM: Ugh, you wouldn’t understand the force.
JS: Clear your mind, you son of a bitch.
JO: Have your eye roll.
AM: Yeah. He's like – he's like the third brother of Edward, the whatever and George, the whatever.
JS: What?
AM: The, the, the Dad Uncle of Elizabeth at Washington Crown a lot.
JS: What?
JO: Ooh.
AM: And he's like the third brother. He's like, “Ugh, whatever.” Yeah.
JS: Okay. Anyway.
AM: Yep.
JS: So, James Dean wasn't the only victim of Little Bastard.
AM: No.
JS: George Barris, who originally customized the car, like, put those sweet tartan seats in there and shit like that.
AM: Aaaah!
JS: After, after the car was wrecked, he bought the wrecked carcass of Little Bastard.
AM: Like, not even Minerva McGonagall would have tartan seats in her vehicle.
JS: Oh, no, she would.
AM: She’d be like, “No, I'm a classy broad. Goodbye.”
JS: She, she had a carpet bag in the books as her travel.
AM: She had a tartan carpet bag --
JS: Yeah.
AM: -- stored discreetly in the backseat.
JS: OK. Anyway. So, while trying to repair, the car actually slipped off its trailer and broke the mechanic’s leg.
AM: Noo!
JS: Barris did the right thing for him at least and sold the engine and drivetrain to two racers; Troy McHenry and William Eschrich. McHenry lost control of his car after the engine was installed and hit a tree, which killed him instantly.
AM: Aah!
JO: Whoa.
JS: Eschrich was severely – Eschrich escrowed was seriously injured when his car suddenly locked up and rolled while trying to go into a turn.
AM: Fuck.
JS: Barris sold the tires too --
AM: No.
JS: -- which blew out simultaneously causing the new – the owner’s car to run off the road.
AM: I think the tires are the first thing you just burn.
JS: Okay.
JO: Yeah.
AM: No.
JS: Two thieves broke into Barris’ garage to steal parts. And one of them tore his arms open trying to steal the steering wheel --
JO: Ooh.
AM: What?
JS: -- while the other injured himself trying to remove the blood stained tartan seats.
AM: How does that even happen? Even – it wasn't even in [Inaudible 51:54].
JS: Barris needed to get rid of the car, obviously.
AM: Obvi.
JS: And managed to convince the California Highway Patrol that they should take it for a highway safety exhibit.
AM: I mean okay.
JS: The first exhibit failed, because the garage holding the car caught fire and burnt to the ground though the car suffered virtually no damage.
AM: Oh, what a little bastard.
JS: The next exhibit was at a local high school. And it ended abruptly when the car fell from its display and broke a student's hip.
AM: Julia, do you remember – remember when there was like a high school – I don't know – spectacle where they had like a wreck of a car that’s parked in the parking lot? And they were --
JS: Yeah. It’s don't drink and drive drunk during the prom.
AM: Don’t drink and drive during prom.
JS: Yep.
AM: Yeah, that was just such a – I mean who does that every year. And she's like, “Fuck, it's late April. Don't drink and drive during prom.”
JS: Don’t drink and drive during prom. You made us watch that video. We get it. Anyway, the California Highway Patrol gave up on the car after the truck transporting it lost control, which caused the driver to fall out of the truck and get crushed by the car after it fell off the back of the truck.
AM: Nooo!.
JO: Jesus.
AM: Did he live?
JS: No. He got crushed by a car.
AM: Noo! Julia.
JO: This is like Christine.
AM: Why are you telling me this?
JS: So, they tried to return the car to Barris, but the car mysteriously disappeared and has not been seen since.
AM: No.
JS: Yeah.
JO: Whoa.
AM: No, no, no, no, no.
JS: It’s out there haunting the streets of California somewhere.
AM: No. What if --
JO: It went off on its own.
AM: What is the like 400 constituent parts that make up that car are just spread out in like the most horrific accidents from the last four decades.
JO: Whoa.
JS: Apparently, there's – there's like one piece in a museum in Chicago I think.
AM: I don't want to go.
JS: Not there.
AM: I’m not going to go in that museum.
JS: No.
AM: Okay. Cursed. Goodbye.
JS: All right.
AM: Listen --
JO: Are you sure you don't want to do like another podcast about it maybe? Like, you travel and try to reassemble the -- I
AM: I don't even know --
JS: That can be your second Spaghetti Gettin’.
AM: I don't want more Spaghetti Getting’. No, I don't. No.
JS: I don't believe you.
AM: No.
JS: No.
AM: I don't believe in ghosts, but I also don't tempt fate. And I'm not gonna go see it.
JS: Fair enough.
AM: That's it. Goodbye.
JO: That’s fair. That's fair. I think it’s fair.
JS: So, we're going to end on one final story.
AM: Julia.
JS: Amanda, have you ever heard the name Peg Entwistle?
AM: I sure haven't. And, also, do you really need to tell me the story?
JS: Yes.
AM: Are you really sure?
JS: Yes.
AM: Can you reflect on our 21 years of friendship and just confirm in your body, mind, and soul that you need to tell me the story?
JS: I really do.
AM: Okay.
JS: So, I'm not surprised that you heard – haven't heard a poor Peg, because she was an only moderate successful actress in life.
AM: Okay.
JS: But she did manage to gain a little bit more fame in death.
AM: Okay. Also, goal.
JS: Because she is known as the ghost of the Hollywood sign.
AM: Ooh.
JO: Oh, okay. Yeah.
JS: On the night of September 18th, 1932, she leaped to her death from the 50 foot high letter H.
AM: Aww.
JS: Yeah.
AM: I'll probably choose letter O because it’s symmetrical.
JS: Fair enough.
JO: Was she a silent film actress?
JS: I believe so.
JO: Yeah, I think that’s – that was the case.
JS: Like, she didn't – she didn't do a lot of stuff.
JO: Well, because I think, whenever they went to talkies, a lot – a lot of silent film stars didn't make it over to talkies.
JS: Yeah. So, peg was actually the inspiration for Katharine Hepburn to get into acting.
AM: Oh, wow.
JO: Oh.
JS: Yeah. So, she like – she had some, like, influence.
JO: All right.
JS: But, you know, she's more famous now in death. So, there's a couple of different stories about seeing Peg’s ghost. Over the years, many park rangers have reported seeing a pretty blonde woman dressed in 1930s clothing wandering the park paths, looking sad, and vanishing when approached, which looks the same. Same.
AM: Yoinks. Same. I too disappear when looked at directly. So --
JS: Yeah, true. One park ranger named John Arbogast, which is a great name --
AM: That is good.
JS: -- claims to have seen Peg’s ghost on several occasions. He says that she tends to appear when conditions are foggy. And she's always accompanied by the strong scent of Gardenias, which I feel is very Hollywood.
AM: Wow.
JS: I'm all about that.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Yeah. So, that's all I've got for Hollywood stories. I'm sure I forgot a lot of stuff that people would love to hear about. And you should send those to us via email so that maybe we can talk about them in a listener roundup episode.
AM: Spiritspodcast@gmail. My takeaway is no one should make movies ever.
JS: Okay. Interesting choices.
AM: That seems like the safest choice.
JO: No.
JS: All right. That's – that's an interesting one for sure.
AM: James, how do you feel?
JO: Yeah. No. I, I thought it was a blast. I don't even – I don't think you’ve missed any big ones. Not that I can think of. At least ones that are meaningful. I mean maybe somebody’s got some out there that are like, “Oh, I know this one thing with like – you know, from, like, the Justin Bieber movie that, you know --
JS: That's our favorite kind.
JO: Yeah. So, you know, I think you got – I think you got all the – all the major ones. At least the ones that are – that are meaningful.
JS: I did forget to mention the fact that the movie, The Exorcism, features an actual serial killer as an exorcist. Exorcist. Sorry.
JO: The Exorcist.
JS: Yes. Yeah, the movie The Exorcist.
JO: Yes.
AM: Someone in that movie ended up being an actual serial killer.
JS: Yes.
AM: Right.
JS: Yes.
JO: Whoa.
JS: Yes.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Yeah. He's like an extra in – when they're doing like a brain scan of the girl or something. Or, like, he’s like the X-ray --
AM: Yeah, he's like the X-ray or the MRI technician.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah. And he was a serial killer.
JS: Yeah, he was like --
AM: Yes.
JS: -- called, like, the prep killer or something like that.
AM: I wonder sometimes how many people in my life have like gotten sandwiches from or like pass on the subway or have driven like buses that I've been on or --
JS: How many accidental serial killers?
AM: Killers. Yeah
JS: I got that.
JO: Right.
JS: It’s an interesting thought.
JO: Or even secret ones. Ones that haven't realized their – their – you know, their thing inside --
AM: Wooh. Unrealized potential.
JS: Potential serial killers.
JO: Yeah, exactly.
JS: Got you.
AM: Yeah.
JS: I’m into it.
AM: Please go to therapy, everybody.
JO: Exactly.
JS: Everybody, please go to therapy.
JO: Yeah, get help.
AM: Every – literally every person could use therapy.
JS: No one – no one can't use therapy.
AM: I completely agree. Also, I'm going to just remind our listeners that these stories have been super fun. We've had a lot of fun here today, kids. But --
JS: Thanks, mom.
AM: Listen, if you feel that you don't need to and if you want some help to talk about it, you can call 800-273-8255. That's the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. And, if you feel like you are in a bind, and you need some help, and you want to understand your resources for surviving assault, for living with an abuser, for doing whatever you have to do, and you just need someone to talk to or some stuff to Google, you can go to R-A-I-N-N.org, rainn.org. They are a super, super great organization, and they can help you out.
JS: Thank you, Amanda.
AM: You're welcome.
JO: Yeah.
JS: Thanks, mom.
AM: In between screaming about James Dean's car and the kid in the Omen, I have some stuff to say.
JS: I'm glad. I'm glad. That's what you're here for.
AM: Well, listen, James, thank you for joining us for this journey.
JO: Oh, thank you.
JS: Yes, it was excellent.
JO: Yeah.
JS: And I’m so glad to have a tag team partner when it came to research.
AM: That was a fun scenario. Yeah.
JO: Yeah. No. I had fun.
JS: James, do you want to plug your stuff?
JO: Yeah.
JS: Plug your stuff, my dude.
JO: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, the show that I've written and created and worked on with Alex – Alexander Danner from Greater Boston. Our show is What's the Frequency? It’s a psychedelic the noir audio drama.
JS: It sounded like you were actually asking you a question, which I super love. You're like, “My show is What’s the Frequency?”
AM: What’s the Frequency?
JO: What’s the Frequency?
AM: Julia.
JO So, it's – yeah. Julia is in it actually. She's amazing. She's actually one of our main characters.
AM: Hey.
JO: But, yeah. Yeah. So, we – we’re gonna – actually, I don’t know if she's told you this, but we're going to make, you know, like, Paul F. Tompkins is in every podcast, apparently.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Yes.
JO: Julia and I are going to make it like so they always go like – what is it? – PFT. Oh, PFT, PFT, PFT.
JS: Yeah.
JO: So, we're gonna make it our own thing with the audio dramas. It's going to be JJOS.
JS: Yep.
AM: Nice.
JO: So, it's gonna be JJOS all the way. You know, you’re --
AM: I also want Spirits to exist in every single audio drama fictional universe.
JS: Yes, I need it to happen.
AM: We have – what – like three so far.
JS: We’re in three now.
JO: Oh, sure.
JS: I think we're in three.
AM; So, I’m gonna need everybody else to just acknowledge our existence.
JS: Yep.
JO: All right. I actually can canon – I canon wise confirm that you are.
AM: Thank you.
JO: That you exist in our universe.
JS: All right.
AM: Thank you.
JO: Yeah. Yeah. No. And it's – it's a wild show. I mean it – the show is very sort of a bit avant-garde, a bit forward thinking with the audio aspects. We just really try to do as much as we can with telling our story – our story through audio considering that this is the format that we're choosing to tell the story.
JS: Hell yeah.
JO: And, so, we rely heavily on, on that. So, I go to a lot --
JS: Yeah.
AM: Like the Wizard of Oz.
JO: It’s a lot of just – exactly. We’re the Wizard of Oz of audio dramas.
AM: Hey.
JO: So, we just turn the – turn the Technicolor on right in the middle – right the beginning actually.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Fantastic.
JO: We are obviously black and white.
AM: Yeah.
JO: Technicolor right there. Yeah. Have you listened to it?
AM: You can quote me.
JO: Have you listened to it at all yet? Amanda, I’m putting you on the spot.
AM: I just started the first episode actually. I know. I didn’t listen to it for a while, because I was like nervous for Julia. And I was like, “I hope it's good.”
JS: Thank you.
AM: But it's actually good. And, so, I listened to the first episode very recently.
JO: Good.
JS: Yeah. The show --
JO: I was worried that it might be like a little heavy or something like that. Like, you might be like, “Uh, it's a little --
AM: No. No.
JO: You know. Okay. Good.
JS: No, she hasn't gotten to the good murder parts yet.
AM: Not yet.
JO: Okay.
JS: But I would – I would recommend it to any of our listeners. It is the definition of creepy and cool.
AM: Yes.
JS: James is creating something really bizarre and really wonderful. And it is definitely something you should get on board with immediately.
JO: Yay.
AM: Word.
JS: And I'm not just saying that because I'm in it, because it's genuinely a show that I listen to. And I'm excited for episodes to come out for.
JO: I, I'm super – I'm super stoked that I get to have you in it. And, if I had – if I had thought of it sooner, I would have probably tried to corral Amanda into it. And [Inaudible 1:01:27] similar, but --
AM: I’m available.
JS: She can do some mini eps.
JO: Oh, no, believe me. I've already thought about where to – where to – where to put her in. And I have – I have something coming up soon for a mini ep. that I – she might get a --
AM: Eventually.
JO: -- might get a request to do some recording.
AM: You got me.
JO: I'm twirling my mustache right now. I don't have one, but it's just, you know --
AM: Well, thank you again for joining us.
JO: Thank you.
AM: Truly, it has been a horrifying emotional rollercoaster of an episode, which is, is the best kind.
JS: Mhmm. For sure.
JO: I loved it. Absolutely, loved it.
JS: Great. And remember everyone to stay creepy.
AM: And, if you buy a car belonging to James Dean, make sure you check the oil and the engine coolant frequently, because that car is fucking cursed as fuck. So, stay cool.
Outro Music
AM: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
JS: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us on Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook and Instagram @SpiritsPodcast. We also have all our episodes, collaborations, and guest appearances plus merch on our website spiritspodcast.com.
AM: Come on over to our Patreon page, patreon.com/SpiritsPodcast, for all kinds of behind-the-scenes stuff. Throw us as little as $1 and get access to audio extras, recipe cards, director’s commentaries, and patron-only live streams.
JS: And, hey, if you liked the show, please share us with your friends. That is the best way to help us keep on growing.
AM: Thank you so much for listening, till next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil.