Episode 269: Hermes
/King of Interns, patron of finance bros, we’re talking this week about our messenger god, Hermes! Amanda channels her past jobs, and Julia thinks about THE MOST HANDSOME BOY.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of sexual assault/rape, death, homophobia, animal death, childbirth, bestiality, misogyny, theft, violence, genitalia, and execution.
Housekeeping
- MERCH! Preorder the Tarot Tee Shirt and get your other on-sale merch at spiritspodcast.com/merch!
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends putting a bin in your freezer.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out NEXT STOP: An audio sitcom that explores the turbulent time of your mid-to-late 20s when everyone is changing around you -- and you worry that you might not catch up. Season 1 is out now! Search for NEXT STOP in your podcast app or go to nextstopshow.com
Sponsors
- BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits
- Betabrand designs amazingly comfortable clothing for women who like to stay active all day long. Get 30% off your Betabrand order when you go to betabrand.com/spirits.
- ThirdLove is on a mission to find a perfect bra for everyone. Get 15% off your first order at thirdlove.com/spirits.
Find Us Online
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests’ books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And this is Episode 269. Nice. Hermes, as part of our It's All Greek to Me series.
JULIA: We're back at it. It's All Greek to Me. And I think this is going to be a very fun episode, Amanda, because this week we are talking about Hermes, who is the herald of the gods. And for me, he has the vibe of the personal assistant to a CEO who knows more about what's going on with the company than the CEO will ever know.
AMANDA: Yes, aka the character I played on Join the Party in our Join the Paper one-shot.
JULIA: You did, and it was wonderful and I just got that vibe so much. I was, like, when I was doing my research for Hermes, I was like, "Oh, this is just that, okay." He just knows everybody's business, because he's, like, the only one that's actually going between Olympus and the mortal world to do things other than fuck women. And also, because he's the only one of the Olympic gods that really goes to the underworld, which makes him really stand out compared to his fellow Olympians.
AMANDA: Love it, can't wait. Stoked to be here. Thank you for having me. Every episode of this podcast is fun, Julia, but I am loving this series, so tell me all about this guy and his-- does he have a little winged feet? Is that right?
JULIA: He does. He has little winged sandals, we'll get to those in a little bit. A game that I would like you to play throughout, Amanda, is how does this relate to my job experience. And so, I'm going to tell a bunch of stories about Hermes and if you feel compelled to, tell me a story that this reminds you of working in finance.
AMANDA: Julia, I try not to be the kind of podcaster to just, like, insert personal anecdotes, whenever something someone else says reminds me of a thing that I have experienced in my life, but if you're inviting me to do that, I've had so many mega maniacal bosses.
JULIA: I think you're going to enjoy this and I encourage it, in fact, in this episode.
AMANDA: Yes!
JULIA: Starting with the basics, Hermes was the son of Zeus and the pleiade, Maia, who was one of the companions of Artemis. The Pleiades were the daughters of Atlas and Maia was the oldest of these daughters. So, in songs, she was called Mountain Maia of the Lovely Black Ice, which I think is beautiful.
AMANDA: That is lovely.
JULIA: And so, it was said that Zeus came to Maia secretly in the dead of night, and the two of them had sex in the cave that she lived in and she became pregnant with Hermes. We'll get a little bit more into what happened to Hermes when he was born because he was a very precocious baby. But first, let's give a little bit more background about him, okay?
AMANDA: Surprisingly, an okay-origin story for a child of Zeus.
JULIA: Yeah, you know, some versions say that it's, like, in the dead of night, and she didn't even know Zeus was there. Some say it was consensual. It's all the Greeks deciding whether or not.
AMANDA: It's all Greek to me, baby.
JULIA: It's all Greek to me. So as I mentioned, Hermes was the emissary and the messenger of the gods. And he was also referred to as the Divine Trickster. So, I feel like that's been something that we've been missing going through the Olympic Pantheon so far is we haven't really had, like, a trickster god yet, you know?
AMANDA: That's true. We have people who get up to high jinks, people against whom high jinks are conducted, but not really a full trickster. And you know, we love a trickster around here.
JULIA: We do, yes. There are a lot of tricks that are played on the gods by the gods, et cetera, but Hermes is truly kind of defined by that trickster nature so...
AMANDA: And that's dangerous because a messenger you really got to trust and I'm sure we'll get into this.
JULIA: So, he was considered the protector of mortal heralds, as well as travelers, merchants, and orators. He also, and we'll expand on this a little bit later, had an important role as the Psychopomp or the Soul Guide, who conducted the souls' of mortals to the afterlife.
AMANDA: I know this is just Greek but psychopomp is the coolest word I've ever heard.
JULIA: It's very, very cool and, like, that's the literal translation. It's a soul guide, psychopomp. I love it.
AMANDA: So cool.
JULIA: So, he had a few symbols that kind of make him very easy to recognize in art. He had a satchel or a purse almost always on his person. He had, as you mentioned before, his winged sandals, which was known as the Talaria. He had a winged helmet though sometimes it was a simple hat that was known as a Petasos. And he had a winged staff that you've definitely seen before which is the Caduceus which is a staff that has little wings and then two intertwined snakes which is used typically as a medical symbol in a lot of Modern Western society.
AMANDA: The doctor staff, of course.
JULIA: The doctor staff, and it's really interesting that we use the Caduceus as the doctor staff, for lack of a better word, because the original symbolism comes from that son of Apollo that I had mentioned before. The one who was like, "I'm so good at healing people I brought people back from the dead," and the gods were like, "Cant-- can't keep doing that, bro."
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: Can't keep doing that. He similarly had a staff that had, like, a snake entwined in it. And later on, that fell out of favor for the more kind of elaborate Caduceus.
AMANDA: Now I'm just picturing like, St. Patrick and also Rah and also Hermes, just like chillin' talking about snakes.
JULIA: Yeah, just chillin' having a good time. It's interesting that you bring up Rah and Egyptian mythology. We'll get into that a little bit later.
AMANDA: Ooh, I did just want to say that I am fully picturing, like, an early 2000s bike messenger in Manhattan whenever we talk about Hermes, because all of the features you're describing, and, like, this isn't not Mike from Suits, USA characters welcome, like, I'm just-- I'm just putting that out there.
JULIA: He does kind of have the energy of someone running down, like, Park Avenue with four coffees in one hand, cell phone in between his ear and his shoulder, other hand doing something else.
AMANDA: Yeah. Anne Hathaway mid Devil Wears Prada wishes.
JULIA: Yes, precisely. Before we get into a little more about who Hermes was and how he was worship, let's talk about what his worship looked like before Ancient Greece, which is not something we get to do a lot of when we talk about these Greeks, but I think that it's an interesting look into how this particular god became the patron of so many different areas, you know?
AMANDA: Yes, please.
JULIA: So, like many of the Greek gods, before the mythology of Ancient Greece was kind of codified into a canon, it was likely that Hermes was worshiped separately and then folded into Greek mythology as we know it. So, the exact origins of Hermes pre-Greeks is kind of, like, hotly debated by scholars, which is one of our favorite things in the world. We love when scholars debate things.
AMANDA: Yeah, we do.
JULIA: Some say that he has origins as a Mesopotamian Snake God, because his symbol, the Caduceus, seems to be pre-Greek. He was also, likely during this time, acting in the role of a mediator between the morals and the god. We're going to see this a lot with the discussion of Hermes, this sort of go between the worlds, you know, he is this kind of liminal God who's able to pass through different areas and exist in them.
AMANDA: Also thinking about kind of corporate worlds. It's very a situation where somebody is like, "This is my nephew, find a job for him." Or like, this is a pre-existing god. Like, this guy was the regional manager, you have to find a job for him. And you're like, "I don't know, you be the messenger." Like, you could have a hot desk, don't worry about it. We don't have an office, but like, it's fine. Be a messenger.
JULIA: I recently learned about hot desks because --
AMANDA: Oh, of course.
JULIA: -- I realized that was a thing. And it seems very depressing.
AMANDA: It's the worst. It's like fully making humans into spark plugs and switchboards. It's terrible.
JULIA: I hate that. I don't like that one bit. I'm not a fuse. So, because you mentioned the Egyptians earlier, he might have actually been tied with Thoth at one point as Hermes and Thoth are both kind of the same archetypes in that they're both; they had knowledge of the material and the spiritual world, they shared that place between worlds. Thoth, I think is a little less trickster-y than Hermes was, but the two of them do become synchronized later on in the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt.
AMANDA: Right on.
JULIA: Yeah, look at that. I like when the– the Greeks and the Egyptian start to merge together. It's a fun period of time. And also, we get Cleopatra later.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: In Greece, before establishing the mythological canon, Hermes was most likely worshiped in the more rural and remote regions of the land, so that kind of gave him an association between nature and farmers and shepherds, which we'll see a little bit later. Scholars also believe that he might have had some association with magic, especially divination and initiation into magical craft, again, playing on that role that will become common for him. This mediator between the common and the divine, the mortal and the immortal, the visible and the invisible. The transformation from this role into the God of Messengers, Travelers, and Boundaries, therefore makes a lot of sense in his inclusion in the Olympic pantheon.
AMANDA: We love a liminal God.
JULIA: We do.
AMANDA: We love it.
JULIA: We do, we super do. So, let's get to one of my favorite aspects of these episodes, which is the epithets and names.
AMANDA: Epithets! We love them!
JULIA: We do, we do.
AMANDA: I sort of stopped breathing in the middle of that word, because I wasn't 100% sure how to pronounce it. It's fine. Moving on.
JULIA: I just go for it at this point, you know?
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: So, the first one that I'm going to say is Agoraeus which means "belonging to the market". And Empolaios which is "engaged in traffic and commerce," which both referenced the fact that Hermes was associated with trade in the marketplace. As such, he's often shown holding or wearing a purse or a satchel.
AMANDA: Interesting. Like, sort of hackles are going up, like, we don't have to make him capitalistic now do we, but I guess that's the mode we're in for this episode. So, I'll lay my sort of worries aside.
JULIA: I also think that, like, if you're talking about a god who is a patron to travelers, oftentimes those travelers are going to be merchants.
AMANDA: That's true. Associated with commerce, at least.
JULIA: Exactly, yeah. In terms of being a traveler, since we're talking about that next, he was also called Poimandres or the "shepherd of men," which I think is really, really cool. He is also referred to as Sokos Eriounios, or swift and good-running. So again, moving quick.
AMANDA: There he is.
JULIA: Has places to be. He was also known as Oneiropompus, or the "conductor of dreams" and Hodios or the patron of travelers and wayfarers.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: Which I really like wayfarers being a particular one, not only because I love the Becky Chamber books.
AMANDA: I'm getting, like, utilitarian, great assistant, can do anything you need him to do, good god to have on your side, find yourself in a pickle at a trading post. Who do you call? You call Hermes.
JULIA: That is true. That is true. We do complicate that image a little bit by the fact that, like I said, he's also a trickster. And he was sometimes referred to as the patron of thieves in his stories, so he was called Dolios or tricky and Homer referred to him as, "a robber, a captain of raiders, a thief at the gates."
AMANDA: Fascinating. What do Homer have against Hermes?
JULIA: Oh, you know, he just said the messed up stuff, much like all the gods. He might have been a thief and a raider, but he was also referred to as Ploutodotes, who was the giver of wealth. He gets that name because he was said to be the inventor of fire. And obviously, fire brings, basically civilization and therefore wealth.
AMANDA: Yeah, tricky as well so I see it.
JULIA: One of my personal favorites that he's called, is Stropheus, or the socket in which the pivot of the door moves.
AMANDA: That's just cool.
JULIA: Yeah, so it was said that he was the protector of the door or the boundary between the outside world and a temple, so the fact that there is, like, a specific word for that particular socket in which the door, like, moves on its hinges is beautiful. I love that
AMANDA: Julia, you know me so well, I'm entranced by this. Also, just a little Amanda's home repair corner, if you don't do a lot of home repairs, or you're, like, worried or you're a renter or you're like, "I like-- I barely have a screwdriver, I don't know what to do." Get a can of WD40 and just grease all the hinges in your house. Like, if you have a squeaky door that annoys you, just try it. It's so easy, have a paper towel and a thing, a WD 40. And you're going to feel like you should keep one in your backpack and just grease all the hinges you encounter in the world. I promise you'll enjoy it.
JULIA: That is absolutely true. Only works if the doors were put on correctly, which I've learned from my door which is not put on correctly. It doesn't matter how much WD40 I put on that bad boy, that thing is gonna squeak no matter what.
AMANDA: Yes, if the door was once fine and becomes squeaky it's a very good first resort.
JULIA: Yes. So, let's talk about how he got some of the names with the stories that he, you know, he's part of. Like I teased before, we have to talk about the first story of Hermes' life. My girl Edith Hamilton, love her, she tells it just as, like, a little teaser for us. Here's the quote. "The babe was born at the break of day and air the night fell he had stolen away Apollo's herds."
AMANDA: Whoa, Edith, man. What a dinner party guest.
JULIA: Oh my god. Yeah. Edith Hamilton, I want to travel back in time just, like, have a good time with her or maybe, like,--
AMANDA: I know.
JULIA: --fast forward her to the future and have her in a better situation and she could be with her lesbian lover and have that life that she deserves so...
AMANDA: Yeah, I feel like she'd really appreciate all the, like, gay ass YA retellings of classic mythology. And she'd be like, "Yes, my children."
JULIA: I love that for her. If we got her young enough, I feel like if she got too old, she would be like, "Man, that's not how the stuff in this story goes."
AMANDA: Fair, fair.
JULIA: But I don't blame her. It's fine. At 1-day-old. Homer was describing Hermes as "Of many shifts, blandly cunning, a robber, a cattle driver, a bringer of dreams, a watcher by night, a thief at the gates. One who was soon to show forth wonderful deeds among the deathless gods. Before the dawning at midday, he played the lyre and in the evening, he stole the cattle of far shooting Apollo on the fourth day of the month for that was the day queenly Maia bore him.
AMANDA: Dang!
JULIA: Homer had a lot to say about that.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Let's give you the– the play-by-play there because Homer kind of glosses over some fun facts, so here's how the story went. On the day that Maia gave birth to Hermes, she swaddled him and then she went to sleep. And who can blame her because giving birth is exhausting.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: As she slept, Hermes left his cradle and set off into the world to explore. So, in Northern Greece, because that's where the mountain was, he came across the beautiful herd of Apollo's cattle. They're shimmery, white, golden, beautiful cows. Like, there's nothing better.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: They're so beautiful, everyone wants to fuck those cows. He wanted to take them but knew even at one day in the world, that someone was going to come looking for them. Obviously, these cattle are here, they must belong to someone. So what he did, and this is again, immediately the trickster vibe, was he removed each of the hooves from the cattle's feet and then reattached them in reverse order.
AMANDA: Oh my god.
JULIA: So that they were facing backwards.
AMANDA: I mean, not only accursed occurrence, but, like, what a prank. Oh my god.
JULIA: So then, what he did was he took his own sandals, and he put them on backwards and then he took the herd back to the cave near where he was born. And because of his trickery, though it made it seem like the cows were walking towards where he had taken them from. Very confused.
AMANDA: Fascinating.
JULIA: Of course, Apollo pretty quickly realized that his flock had been taken and went to investigate. Like, he attempted to follow the tracks, but he's not Artemis and the tracks were confusing him and just left him angry. He's like, "Oh, god, I don't know where is this going, It's all bundled up, who can say?" But while Apollo isn't the god of hunt like his sister, he is the god of prophecy.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And so, he was able to determine who the thief was through the art of prophecy. So, he appeared at the cave that Hermes was born in, finding a sleeping Maia and a very peacefully sleeping Hermes, just like, "Oh, I'm just a baby. Don't look at me."
AMANDA: I'm just a baby. Don't worry.
JULIA: But you know, the gods are dicks and Apollo was angry. And so, he grabbed Hermes by the ankle, and he hauled him back up to Mount Olympus to face trial in front of their father, Zeus, which, you know, imagine a courtroom where Zeus is presiding.
AMANDA: Yeah, I feel like he would have, like, a lazy boy as his judge's chair and just be like, I don't know, have, like, a lady on his lap and just, like, touch her button inappropriately.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah, he would, that would be bad.
AMANDA: You know.
JULIA: Not even gonna bother with the powdered wig and the-- the robes just hanging out.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: Titty out, you know? So, of course, once Hermes is in front of Zeus, he denies everything. He's like, "I don't know what this guy's talking about. I don't know, this is my cousin, or actually half-brother." But Apollo, as we know, is the god of truth, so that has some weight in front of Zeus because Zeus is like, "I know Apollo can't really lie, so you probably did it." And Hermes eventually confesses Zeus, however, rather than being pissed off like Apollo, because he had no real loss in the situation, he actually finds it pretty amusing that his newborn son had gotten into such shenanigans so quickly, and so decides not to punish him other than making him return the flock of cattle.
AMANDA: I mean, that's pretty just all things considered.
JULIA: Yeah. The problem is, though, Hermes had eaten one of the cattle because he's a big growing baby boy. And so, he couldn't return that one. And so, Apollo was like, "Well, what are you going to do? You ate one of my cows. You can't just bring it back. You ate it." And so, in exchange, Hermes creates out of the, like, remaining cow guts, and also the shell of a turtle, the lyre, the musical instrument.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: And gifts it to Apollo.
AMANDA: How did Apollo feel about that exchange, because I can see it going real good or real bad.
JULIA: So, Apollo actually is very, like, touched and impressed by this gift, and so forgives everything. All's forgiven. And Apollo even is so thrilled by the lyre that he gives Hermes his golden staff, the Caduceus, which he could use to guide any flock of livestock.
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: Isn't that kind of beautiful?
AMANDA: That's sweet, yeah.
JULIA: And also, because of this gift, Apollo becomes the god of music.
AMANDA: That's awesome.
JULIA: Like, it becomes so synonymous with Apollo that Apollo becomes the god of music.
AMANDA: Oh, nothing but all the, like, women in STEM who talk about, like, the first chemistry set that my aunt got me when I was a kid.
JULIA: And I was like, "Yeah, here's my, like, golden magic staff. I can lead any cow wherever I want."
AMANDA: Yeah. And Apollo's like, "Here's a lyre made of a cow gut, and now I am music."
JULIA: Now I touched it and it is golden and beautiful. I love it. It's very, very cool. So, with that taste of the kind of shenanigans that we can expect from Hermes, let's get into some of his other stories. Just as soon as we get back from a refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it. Hello, it is Amanda here. Welcome to the refill. I want to thank Julia for stepping in and saving my butt last week when our website broke and I had to deal with it at work, so thank you, Julia, very much. And thank you to our Supporting-producer level patrons. You are the folks whose support along with the hundreds of other people on Patreon helps us do this as our job: Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jaybaybay, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Kneazlekins, Little vomitspiders running around, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi. And those Legend-level patrons: Audra, Bex, Clara, Drew, Lexus, Mary, Morgan, Mother of Vikings, Sarah, Taylor, & Bea Me Up Scotty. If you want to join these folks, get your name read out loud when you join, and lots of other benefits, go to patreon.com/spiritspodcast. Speaking of which, we have been cooking up a ton of very very good stuff behind the scenes here at Spirits including some exclusive merch that we are going to be sending to our Legend-level patrons in your next Quarterly box. Get excited for it. And a new Tee Shirt folks. That's right! We made a Tee Shirt out of our favorite of the Spirits tarot cards; The Fool. That's the fool tarot card with me, and Julia, and Eric as those fools. We're holding flashlights. Eric looks really scared, his moustache looks great. Julia's fashions are on point. My tattoos are there. It's amazing. Zoe Poanda Writer did an incredible job with the artwork and now it's a tee shirt that you can buy. Well, you can pre-order it because we want to know how many of you want the shirt so we order the right amount. So, go to spiritspodcast.com/merch to pre-order that tee shirt. And at the same time, to thank you for spending your money with us, we are also running a sale on our other merch items. You can get a deep discount and the lowest prices that they can go on our pins, our posters, and a bunch of other great items. So, it's an excellent time to get yourself some Spirits merch, grab some pins for your jackets, grab some pins for your backpacks, grab some posters for your walls, grab some stuff as a gift, evergreen gifts. You can get them at any time. I'm doing my car salesman, Long Island voice. Order now! It's going to be great. We're so excited about this tee shirt and it's also green because we had a lot of black merch before, so we wanted to make sure we bring some color to the table. All of that is at spiritspodcast.com/merch. And if you ran out of great stuff to listen to here on the Spirits feed and you've caught up and you're like, "Oh god, what am I gonna do now?" Good news. You can listen to all of season one of Next Stop. This is an audio sitcom that Multitude made exploring the turbulent time of your mid to late 20s when everyone is changing around you and you're pretty worried that you might not catch up. There are 10 episodes of season one and I'm just gonna say it, the best theme song in all of podcasting. Following three roommates as they navigate work, relationships, friendships, and more. And it's wholesome, you watch them grow together as a unit no matter what life throws at them. It is written and created by Eric Silver, directed and edited by Brandon Grugle, executive produced by myself, and casted and assistant directed by Julia. It's so good y'all. Go to nextstopshow.com or just search for Next Stop in your podcast app to marathon all season one now. We are sponsored this week by Third Love. I am wearing a Third Love bralet right now and I can't imagine going back to bras that don't fit me well. They know that comfort is essential to feeling your best and especially here at the beginning of a new year, you deserve to feel comfortable in your body and in your clothes. I love this bralet because it has a decent amount of support without digging in. It's the thing I hate most about bras that don't fit well, is digging into my underwire, or to my back, or in, you know, under my boobs. It just sucks. And so, when I wear the bralet I know that I will look stylish, have just enough support, and that it's going to be comfy all day long. Third Love is all about comfort and quality and they also have an excellent fitting room quiz that you can take online and find a bra that actually fits. I love that you can plug in the brand and size of your old bra. They ask you what's wrong with it. Like, what do you wish was better? It's like giving notes and getting kind of a custom bra in return because you get to tell them exactly how you want the fit to be better. And of course, they have those half cups that I know Julia loves and tons of people enjoy as well. And best of all, they have a love your fit guarantee. If you don't like it, exchanges and returns are free for 60 days. Feeling is believing. Upgrade to everyday pieces that love your body as much as you do. Right now you can get 20% off your first order at thirdlove.com/spirits. That's 20% off at thirdlove.com/spirits. This podcast is also sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy. We talked about BetterHelp a lot on the show and this month we're discussing some of the stigmas around mental health. I know that before I went to therapy for the first time, I felt a lot of, kind of imposter syndrome about whether or not I was allowed to if something traumatic hadn't happened to me then I thought kind of, you know, are they gonna laugh at me? Are they gonna think my problems are not serious? Do I actually have problems? And at the end of the day, I benefited so much from it. And I hope that this ad and everything we do on the show can help prove to you that if nothing else, you deserve to be happy, you deserve to enjoy your day, and you deserve people in your life who will take your problems seriously and listen to you and help you out. Therapy can be a really really useful tool to get that done and improve your life, so BetterHelp provides customized online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapist, so you don't have to see anybody on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy and you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. Give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp Online Therapy, including me. Once more, this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Spirits listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/spirits. That's a b e t t e r h e l p.com/spirits. And finally, we are sponsored by BetaBrand. It's 2022 folks and we no longer have to be uncomfortable to look stylish. That's right. No matter what you were told growing up, you do not have to suffer to look good. And Beta Brand has comfortable pants that you can wear without sacrificing style or comfort. So good! If you ever leave the house in the morning feeling cute and confident and by the end of the day you're like, "Ugh!" like, I wish I wore anything else. BetaBrand is trying to solve that problem and specifically their dress pant yoga pants are designed with the fit and flexibility of yoga pants but they look polished. They're soft, comfy, stretchy, and stay wrinkle free. This is the style I have actually, back then. Back when they were on Kickstarter. I was a kickstarter backer because I was like, "Hell yeah, I need to go to mock-trial, and to debates. And I need to wear dress pants, and I hate them." And I wore those things to shreds, so now that I have a brand new pair of dress pants– yoga pants, I love that they fit well and they make me feel like I am comfy but still able to, you know, do business and do my day. Right now, get 30% off your BetaBrand order when you go to betabrand.com/spirits. That's b e t a b r a nd.com/spirits for 30% off your order for a limited time. Make sure to use that URL because it supports the show. Find out why people are buying five different pairs of these pants at a time. Go to betabrands.com/spirits today for 30% off. And now, let's get back to the show.
JULIA: So, Amanda, I'm not gonna lie, I was trying to figure out what kind of cocktail someone like Hermes would drink if he was just, like, hanging out at a bar with his co-workers after a long day. And I came to the conclusion and you can let me know if you agree with this or not that Hermes is 100% an Espresso Martini kind of guy.
AMANDA: Interesting. My thought right off the bat was a Shandy, which I think is perhaps a summer treat, but an Espresso Martini you enjoy all year long. Tell me your reasoning.
JULIA: It's a drink that is strong as hell, it gets you buzzed in at least two different ways. And he just feels like a guy who gets home at 3am, hits the gym at 6am, and is at work before his boss gets in at 8am.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Like, is he okay? How does he do that? We'll never know. But I want to kind of bring that energy to the rest of the episode at the very least.
AMANDA: Oh, I love that. Like, when is he gonna fall off the cliff, but until then he's very productive.
JULIA: Don't worry about it until it happens. That's the kind of vibe that Hermes gives.
AMANDA: I love it. I will say so this is a good corner of, like, experiences Amanda had working in finance, right?
JULIA: Perfect.
AMANDA: So, I would often get to my desk by, like, 7am when I worked in finance, it's fuckin' blue, it was terrible. And occasionally, like one or two times, I found-- I, like, walked into the building at the same time as my boss' boss. And the first time it happened, he was like, "Oh, wow, McLoughlin, getting in early, huh?" And I was like, "Mhmm, I got stuff to do. And, you know, like, I want to impress you." And so I was like, "Nice. Good job, Amanda. Excellent." The second time it happened he was like, "Huh, early again." And then I realized that it was like a machismo thing where, like, he wanted to be the first one in and...
JULIA: And you as a young femme woman, like, --
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: -- kinda threw him off his game.
AMANDA: Yeah. So, from that day on, if I saw him going into the building first, let him go and then waited a few minutes, then went a second.
JULIA: Smart.
AMANDA: It's also somebody-- again, maybe it was completely in my mind, but I was, like, 22 and really scared. I also was taller than he was by, like, several inches. And so, if we ever had a walk somewhere together, I would kind of be an extra step behind him. And if we were, like, in an elevator together, I would stay on the other side of the elevator just because I saw him, like, lifting himself up when he was around men who were a similar height.
JULIA: Oh no.
AMANDA: And I was like, I feel like this isn't just gonna go well, because people love to remark on the height of women anyway, so I would just stand kind of a part in the elevator. And now, I work from home. I don't think about that.
JULIA: It's a real Napoleon Complex kind of situation. I'm not surprised that that's a thing among a lot of finance guys.
AMANDA: Yeah, he was very, very nice. But I had the feeling that he was best when you didn't challenge him in any way, so I did my best not to do that.
JULIA: Art most men.
AMANDA: We did get an email recently, we get one of these periodically. That was, like, "Not all men." And I'm like, "We know, but all of society tells us one thing and here on Spirits Podcast, we get to say the other."
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. Too bad. Sorry.
AMANDA: Sorry.
JULIA: If you feel the need to defend yourself, question that. Question why you feel the need to defend yourself in that situation.
AMANDA: Yeah. Have you put some energy into– into using that-- using that power to protect and uplift others in your life?
JULIA: Yeah, I mean, if it bothers you that much, a little introspection as to why it bothers you so much would be useful, I think.
AMANDA: Yeah. Next time we're out with the bros. Just be like, "Hey, bros. Do you find yourself getting defensive when people talk about problems with men? How can we look into our own lives about that?"
JULIA: Yeah. How can we solve that through our actions rather than telling women that they're wrong?
AMANDA: We know that most of you listening do that. And we are so grateful to be in a group of people who get it.
JULIA: Yeah. Like, if you are listening to this, and you're like, "Are they talking about me? Probably not. Probably not," Because you've gotten this far at this point. So, let's talk about the various lovers and children of Hermes. Speaking of which.
AMANDA: Yay!
JULIA: I feel like Hermes is not as infamously a fuck boy as the other gods in the Olympic Pantheon, but he does have his own both romantic and questionable relationships, you know? Everyone does bad in Greek mythology, I feel like, so Hermes is no exception.
AMANDA: We expect this.
JULIA: For instance, he, like a lot of the Greeks was infatuated by Aphrodite, because beautiful. He attempted to woo her. She rejected him. So naturally, Hermes went to Zeus to ask for help in winning her over. Zeus kind of feels bad for his son, and he's like, "Okay," so he sends one of his giant eagles to steal away Aphrodite's sandal while she's taking a bath.
AMANDA: Oh, that's rude.
JULIA: The sandal was given to Hermes, who then has it when Aphrodite comes looking for it, and in exchange for the sandal the to have sex and Aphrodite gives birth to Hermaphroditus who is named after both parents.
AMANDA: Now, maybe it was like a fun sexy little romp, but maybe it was stealing a lady shoe and that's not a good-- good way to have her-- have sex with you.
JULIA: Like I said, some of them were questionable. There were some, like, actual nice romantic one. Most of them are questionable as is all Greek mythology. So, Hermes had, like I said, his fair share of both mortal and minor goddess lovers as well of course. There was Chione, who was a mortal princess who caught the attention of both Apollo and Hermes' eyes. Apollo decided that he would come and visit her in the night, but speedy Hermes was less patient and went to her, put her in a deep sleep, and raped her. Later that night, Apollo visited her in the guise of an old woman, also had sex with her and the result was Chione gave birth to twins. One child of Apollo, and one child of Hermes. The son of Hermes, who was named Autolycus, became a thief and a charlatan who was known throughout all of Greece. Like father, like son.
AMANDA: So funny.
JULIA: Imagine being so much of a charlatan that you're known throughout your entire country.
AMANDA: It's pretty good.
JULIA: Some real Catch Me If You Can vibes.
AMANDA: I know. Cashed in for a memoir, baby.
JULIA: There you go. There you go. After your jail time, so there were a couple of, like, other mortals, but honestly, their stories make me too sad to talk about on the show, like Herse, but Hermes had a few various nymph lovers as well, who were much more fortunate than the mortals all except for poor Lara. Again, too sad. Don't want to tell him on the show. I know about it, don't want to talk about it.
AMANDA: You can Google it, y'all. There's lots of sad stories for you to get into.
JULIA: Exactly. For example, there was Tanagra, who both Ares and Hermes were spitting over. Again, another competition of the ladies. Of course, that led to the competition between the two gods and Hermes actually challenged Ares to a boxing match to win her favor.
AMANDA: Sexy.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: And Ares as the god of war, you would think, you know, that would be no problem. But Ares as we will know is also a coward. And light-footed Hermes was able to defeat him and ran off with Tanagra.
AMANDA: Nice. Little winged shoes flapping in the breeze.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly. He's like, off we go. There was another nymph whose name was Penelopeia, who also kind of plays an important role in Hermes' tale, because Hermes was said to have had sex with her while he was in the form of a goat. And when she gave birth to their son, he was born with the legs of a goat. And that was the god Pan.
AMANDA: Dang, okay. Oh, all right.
JULIA: Yeah, better than the talking horse.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: I'll say that. Better than talking horse.
AMANDA: Quite.
JULIA: So, as some of our listeners probably know, Pan is the god of nature, shepherds, and flocks, which makes him an obvious heir to Hermes. And perhaps one of the most famous children of Hermes.
AMANDA: Is he-- is he, like, the first satyr or he's just kind of the-- the most famous one?
JULIA: It's, like, complicated. As we talked about in the Hercules episode, satyrs are actually technically like half-horse and then later on, they became, like, half-goat when the Greeks kind of synchronized with the Romans, but Pan definitely, like, was of his own origin, basically like that.
AMANDA: Gotcha.
JULIA: So Pan-- Pan was, like, a deity, whereas the satyrs and whatnot are a little bit more, like, on the nymph level.
AMANDA: Like figures. Yeah.
JULIA: Or like the centaur level. They're more creature-esque.
AMANDA: Yeah. Cool.
JULIA: So for all of these children, and lovers and victims, Hermes was in fact a married man, you wouldn't expect that.
AMANDA: Really?
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Did not know that.
JULIA: So, he was said by the poet Nonnus, to be married to the goddess Peitho, who was said to be the goddess of persuasion and seduction.
AMANDA: Interesting.
JULIA: Yeah. So, she was said to be an attendant of Aphrodite, and was also the nursemaid to Aphrodite's children before they were fully grown. You remember the Erotes?
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: They were Aphrodite's children and she was the nursemaid for them. In one story, the married couple was actually depicted instructing Triptolemus, who you might remember from the Demeter episode on the best ways of spreading the role of agriculture across mankind as kind of a joint effort since Hermes was, you know, the Greek messenger and Peithos was the persuasion incarnate. So, she was out there being like, "Alright, here's the best way to convince people that this is a good way of, you know, raising crops and going on with their lives."
AMANDA: I'm loving this combo. I think this is a real power couple. And I think it is very much sort of another Megan Markle, in Suits power combo, where somebody is just, like, very good at her job and communicating and then there is, like, a little bit of a new to the space, more enthusiastic, and perhaps rational dude. That's a compelling pairing.
JULIA: There you go. Amanda, I'm curious. Working in finance, did you work with any couples that were power couples?
AMANDA: I don't think I worked with any power couples. My boss met her husband on the job and he ended up working somewhere else, which I was like, "Yes, Claudia, you stay. Like, you-- you be the queen that you are and, like, you know take over this department." I worked there for, like, three years. And I don't know what I want to do next. I don't want to, like, fall into this rabbit hole. I don't want to stay here forever. And so, I just basically did, like, a lot of interviews with other people who worked in other departments. Just being like, what is your job exactly? Like, what do you do? Like, you know, tell me-- tell me about your career. Do you like it? And one of the ones that someone was like, "You know what Amanda, you'd be really good at Investor Relations." And I was like, "Oh, what's that?" Meet with somebody in investor relations. And she'd, like, a haggard expression.
JULIA: Oh no.
AMANDA: She's incredibly well-dressed. It was, like, probably 5pm. It was, like, late in the day for a coffee. And she'd, like, the biggest coffee I've ever seen. I was like, "This might be a silly question, what exactly is investor relations?" So the real answer everybody is, it's a department at a public company, so a company on the stock exchange, whose job is convincing people who own the stock that everything's fine. And so, they do public relations for the company, they, you know, in the way that PR, like a PR agent will be like, "Hey, like, this celebrity has a new line of tequila and, like, you should enjoy it." The person's like, "Hey, this company did this meaningless diversity program, and therefore, there's no racism here." Like, that-- that's not their whole jobs. They have to be very smart and, like, know the accounting of the company and, like, answer very detailed questions from people on Wall Street and, like, reporters that what's happening at the company. But ultimately, their job is to, like, make the company look good in the way that HR's job is to defend the company from, like, employees who want something. And so I was like, "Oh, what's investor relations?" And she's like, we make the problems go away. And I was like, "Oh." And she's like, "Yeah, you got to be cutthroat. You got to be persuasive. You got to make sure that someone calls you at five in the morning saying 'the fuck is going on over there?'" You have to say, "Everything's fine." And I'm like, "That sounds terrible! Why would you do that?"
JULIA: And someone looked at you, Amanda and said, you should have that job, Amanda.
AMANDA: I think what happened is they learned I was an English major and there are only so many jobs in finance that require writing skills, and investor relations is one of them, because you're again, basically writing press releases for a company. So anyway, that is what the sort of, like, power of persuasion role most reminds me of.
JULIA: Gotcha. I love that.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Wow. Poor Peitho, definitely working hard in that company, for sure.
AMANDA: Yes, I bet she'd like to shift dresses tailored within an inch of their life.
JULIA: Absolutely, everything is custom tailored. 100%. Now let's talk about the other roles that Hermes has played, because he really does play a really important role in Greek mythology, especially when we're talking about the boundaries between life and death, because he's not just the messenger. As I mentioned before, he was a god of boundaries, as a way of honoring him, traveling Greeks would create these marker piles of stones on the road, which were called Herma. And each traveler would add a stone to the pile when they traveled by. I kind of love that idea. Like, they're cairns, you know, is that the right word for it? Like a pile of stone.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: It's called a cairn. And I just really like the imagery of that, but these piles were eventually standardized by a nobleman named Hipparchus, in the sixth century, who replaced these piles, which are basically the markers of a midway point between each village and he replaced it with a pillar that would have a bust of Hermes carved into the top of it.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: So very, like, honoring-- honoring Hermes and stuff like that, which is very, very nice. Here's where it gets a little funny, though. Other early versions of these cairns weren't a bust at all, but rather, were just a carved phallus.
AMANDA: Oh, well, that's interesting.
JULIA: Yeah, it might seem a little weird carving big dicks in the road, but Hermes was also related to fertility and often phallic imagery was associated with him. So, these hermai, in this case, the carved phallus were sometimes placed at the entrances of households, because they were meant to encourage the fertility of the man of the household, and it was basically, like, hoping that he would produce more children.
AMANDA: Fascinating.
JULIA: Yes, and they were also not only bringing fertility but they were said to offer protection to the home, but mostly the fertility thing. Fun fact, and this is, like, kind of, like, leading down an interesting path thing. During the Peloponnesian War, kind of before things really got started, the Athenian fleet was supposed to set sail and someone vandalized all the hermai in the city over the course of one night.
AMANDA: Whoa.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: What?
JULIA: Yeah, so basically, the Athenians believed that either it was their enemies who were trying to, like, discourage the fleet from leaving, or it was anti-war students in the city again, also trying to encourage the fleet not to leave.
AMANDA: Love that there have been anti-war students raising hell in cities for millennia.
JULIA: Yes. And actually, this action inadvertently caused the execution of Socrates.
AMANDA: Oh, I don't think that happens most of the time.
JULIA: No, usually not. The basic premise is that one of the suspected students was a student of Socrates and one of the, like, crimes that he was basically accused of and found guilty of was not leading this student down a righteous path. And so, therefore, was part of the reason that he was executed.
AMANDA: Fascinating.
JULIA: So Socrates, because someone basically vandalized a bunch of dicks, Socrates got killed.
AMANDA: You really can't make this stuff up, Julia.
JULIA: You really can't. The-- the rabbit holes that we go down in this podcast. There you go.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Most importantly, in terms of his role, is Hermes' role as a psychopomp as we talked about before, this guide of the souls. Going back to the-- the hermai phalluses just for a second. They were often used as grave monuments as well as a way of making sure that Hermes would come to collect the dead.
AMANDA: Very poignant. Also hilarious. Wow.
JULIA: I'm just thinking of like, you know, the very kind of phallic tombstones. Usually they're, like, pillars. What's the thing?
AMANDA: The obelisk.
JULIA: Yes, obelisks. Imagine those, but they're just big penises.
AMANDA: I think some people would find that very funny to have as their own grave marker. And I'm thinking about them right now.
JULIA: 100%. So in many ways, Hermes is both an Olympic god but also a Chthonic god because he exists in this liminal space between the worlds as a messenger and a psychopomp. In more modern readings of Hermes in this role, Carl Jung again, Carl Jung has some problems. I'm not gonna-- I'm not gonna be like, Oh, Carl Jung listened to everything he says. But he does have quite an impact on at least the history of psychology, if not, like, actual practice of psychology. He believed that the role of Hermes within the unconscious is; he is the god of the unconscious, being able to mediate between the conscious and the unconscious parts of the mind, which could then lead a person through inner journeys.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: I mean, a metaphor, I would say.
JULIA: Sure, sure. It's very much, like, an internalized mythology there. An internalized, like, cosmology.
AMANDA: Listen, we love an internalized cosmology. People take metaphor and treat it as literal truth. And I'm always like, "No, no, don't do that."
JULIA: Yeah, no, that's not what he meant. That's not what he meant. Anyway, whereas most of the chthonic gods were viewed with fear by the ancient Greeks. Most stories referenced mortals reacting to Hermes in this role with awe rather than fear. So, part of that has to do with the gentleness that he was said to perform his task with rather than being something worth fearing. So, the historian Carl Karani refers to Hermes in The Odyssey as "gentle his golden staff gleaming, Hermes appears even among the musty paths of ghosts. Here, too he is named akeketa, painless since he does no harm, even to these unfortunate souls."
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: It's beautiful, right? I like that a lot
AMANDA: What a performance review.
JULIA: Yeah. It's like looking back at old files. And you're like, "Man, that one intern did a really good job 20 years ago."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So Hermes, as I mentioned before, was also the god of transitions and turns. And so, his role transitioning mortals from the world of living to the world of the dead is extremely important to his domain.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: Other things that he is a patron of, a non-exhaustive list. Actually, let's make this into a game, okay?
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: I'm going to list a thing, and we'll talk about how he managed to get that under his belt as, like, the patron of, okay?
AMANDA: Fabulous. Can I first ask you, Julia, were there any things in the offices that you've worked on that are completely random that people would come to you for that were not your job, and yet you expect to troubleshoot it? I feel like as the youngest woman in the office, you're often just be, like, being told, like, the boss' phone won't work, figure it out. And I'm like, "I'm not IT. Like, what? Huh?"
JULIA: There was one thing that was extremely frustrating about the last job that I had before I went into podcasting, and I worked for a cheese company that did a lot of online sales, especially during Christmas time. And I was a copywriter. I was not in sales at all, but everyone in the office was expected to for at least two hours every day work the phones answering customer service questions.
AMANDA: Terrible.
JULIA: And it was the worst thing I could have possibly-- I wouldn't have taken that job if I had known that was an aspect of the company.
AMANDA: I was furious on your behalf when this happened. I'm even more furious now.
JULIA: Yeah, no, it was truly bad. Truly, truly bad. Never do that to people. Don't make them do customer service jobs if that's not their job. Anyway, um, ready to play the game?
AMANDA: Yes, please.
JULIA: Number one, Commerce. We kind of talked about this one earlier, but commerce.
AMANDA: Yeah, makes sense. It's an exchange of goods. It's tied to travel. I think that makes a lot of sense.
JULIA: Yeah. Similarly, wealth through business.
AMANDA: Okay, I mean that-- that seems pretty-- pretty similar.
JULIA: Yeah. Pretty on task. Unexpected wealth.
AMANDA: Unexpected wealth, when you're playing a trick and it turns good?
JULIA: Yeah, sure. Like, you're like oh, what a surprise I have money now.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Travel, we talked about already. Roads in particular. Crossroads, interesting because both travel and liminal spaces.
AMANDA: Yeah. Decision making paths unfurling in front of you. Kind of choosing which direction you'll go.
JULIA: In a similar vibe as these next two I'll group them together, agreements and contracts.
AMANDA: Yes. Let's define the limits of what we owe each other. That makes a lot of sense for Hermes.
JULIA: Great. Hospitality?
AMANDA: Okay. I mean, travelers who are often, you know, dealing in hospitality ask for hospitality. I feel like it's a very trickster thing to kind of, like, appear at someone's house in the guise of something and then not actually be that thing, so it could go both ways.
JULIA: Also, the idea that he is that kind of liminal space between the outside world and the inside world, the door. Remember the-- the door? Yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah, exactly. You're right. You invite somebody into your home. It's-- it's a real act. It's a-- it's-- it's making a person even temporarily a member of your household instead of a stranger.
JULIA: Sexual intercourse.
AMANDA: Okay. I mean, there's a– you know, a breaching of boundaries.
JULIA: Sure.
AMANDA: And perhaps that-- that's very Hermes. Maybe he's just horny. I don't know.
JULIA: Yeah. And we also had the fertility with all the phalluses earlier. Games!
AMANDA: Games are excuses we have to trick and be tricked and still be friends at the end of it.
JULIA: Absolutely. Good luck. Kind of obvious. That's his vibe.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Sacrificial animals, which I'll actually explain the story of which, when we talk about his festivals.
AMANDA: Well, I see a tie into hospitality here where sacrifice, you know, going back is thanking God or entreating a god to give us hospitality and care.
JULIA: Pleasin'.
AMANDA: As people that they've either created or that they're stewarding, or we at least have to coexist with. And I also see an element of travel and guessing here of, you know, you go to a new city or you're leaving somewhere else new customs, ritual, festival, you know, maybe you bring something to thank people for their hospitality.
JULIA: Next up would be I'll group these all together again, flocks, and shepherds.
AMANDA: Sure. Classic as a baby.
JULIA: Yes, classic as a baby, and also a part of his, like, pre Greek mythology, canon origins as well, which I really like. Fertility of the land. We've talked about the dicks already. And also, data.
AMANDA: Data. I mean, commerce, so there are records of sales.
JULIA: Mhmm.
AMANDA: Oh, boy. I don't know. Was he the first hacker?
JULIA: I wish. That would be very cool. But yeah, no, I think it does fall into the commerce territory again. This idea of, like, the trade between people, the comings and goings, how many sheep do you have? Okay, well, you sold that and now you have that many sheep.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Plus you have these rocks, you know, that kind of thing. So yeah, I really like just kind of being able to break down these things because you're like, Well, where did that come from? Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
AMANDA: Yeah. If you've never looked up, like, Mesopotamian records of, like, inventory, and, like, royal, you know, accounting, I highly recommend it. There's nothing that will make you feel more connected to people thousands and thousands of years ago than being, like, we used to have four sheep, one died, you know, or like, we were expecting 12 bushels and we got 10.
JULIA: Or like, fuck it. I have to pay taxes to the king. Goddamnit.
AMANDA: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
JULIA: So unfortunately, Amanda, Hermes does not have a lot of festivals and feasts, but he did have Hermaea, which was kind of a classic festival with sacrifices to Hermes, but also athletic and gymnastic competitions. Kind of like a smaller Olympic Games style thing, but what made Hermes' a little bit different. It was that only young boys could participate in these games and adults were banned.
AMANDA: Interesting. Was there a reason why?
JULIA: I think it's just because Hermes is kind of the youngest god in terms of the, like, if we're really putting age to the various gods, he was definitely born last or close to last.
AMANDA: Gotcha. He's the spry kid that you send out for coffee.
JULIA: Exactly, exactly. And like I just have this image of Hermaea in my head is, like, real like PAL soccer tournament energy or something like that.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
JULIA: You know what I mean?
AMANDA: Not bully me age.
JULIA: Yes, exactly. Finally, there was also a yearly festival in Odisha, where Hermes was said to have saved a town from the plague by carrying a ram over his shoulders around the city walls, thus curing everyone within the boundary of the city. Again, god boundaries.
AMANDA: Dang.
JULIA: There he is, so every year after that people would elect and this is a direct quote, people would elect the most handsome boy.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: And he would likewise put a lamb on his shoulder, carry it through the city, and then sacrifice it in order to cleanse the city and protect it for the next year from things like disease and drought. So again, that's kind of where the sacrificial animals come from.
AMANDA: That's a real main character moment for that boy,
JULIA: Yes. Oh, God, I just love the most handsome boy, we're gonna have an election and it's for the most handsome boy.
AMANDA: I mean, that's kind of better than the guise of politics we have where they're like, if you're not photogenic enough, you don't count. Like, I don't care what your ideas are, like, at least it's like, "Well, Aggie's more handsome than Peter, so like, obviously, he's gonna be the lad."
JULIA: I mean, all he has to do is carry sheep around. Like, it's not that hard. He doesn't have to decide the political, you know, agenda for the next year of the city. He just has to carry a sheep. That's the one that I want to add to the calendar is handsome boy carry sheep.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah, no, definitely write that one down. And that's a good way to tell a crush that you're thinking about them. Be like, "Hey, I don't know if they've chosen a sheep carrier, but I think you'd be in the running."
JULIA: I think you'd be pretty much a shoo in, so that is Hermes, god of finance bros everywhere.
AMANDA: Oh, Hermes, king of interns I would say. I just-- I love this and I love all of his stories. I love all of his intersections. And I would love to hear from conspirators about intern moments that you have experienced in your life and we can all commiserate,
JULIA: especially if they relate to one of the Hermes stories we share to you today.
AMANDA: Oh yeah. There were lots of instances where I had to manage catering for groups of people with very specific dietary preferences on low budgets, and I feel a lot of-- a lot of kinship here.
JULIA: Big mood, big mood. Well that's it for us, with It's all Greek to me and we'll be back soon with another goddess that I think people will be excited about.
AMANDA: Yay! Can't wait for it. Thank you again, Julia. And everybody remember.
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool. Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @spiritspodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a forum to send us in your urban legends, and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast for all kinds of behind-the-scenes goodies. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more like recipe cards with alcoholic and non-alcoholic for every single episode, director's commentaries, real physical gifts, and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye
Transcribed by: John Matthew M. Sarong