Episode 219: Advice from Folklore II (with Moiya McTier)
/Julia and Moiya are back channeling the gods to give you advice on burning questions! Amanda teams up with a fortune god to give financial advice, we help determine what paths are the best paths, and we learn to love ourselves.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of sex, relationships, anxiety, war, fire, Covid-19, money/finances, banking and financial institutions, and heteronormativity.
Housekeeping
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Transcript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is Episode 219: Advice from Folklore II with Moiya McTier.
Julia: Two advice, two folklore.
Amanda: We were so excited about doing the first episode. We were so glad that you all enjoyed it as much as we did. And, so, now, we're going to be doing folklore advice episodes with Moiya every other month.
Julia: Wooh!
Amanda: Yay!
Julia: I'm excited. This is gonna be a lot of fun. And Moiya gives some really great advice in here. Amanda, you give some really great advice in here. I did pick several questions because I was like, “Oh, Amanda's gonna have really good advice here on top of what the god say.”
Amanda: Aww. Yeah, I think it is such a fun format. And I am stoked for everybody to hear me go off about financial planning. And I mean it. If you have questions and don't know who to turn to, don't feel silly, I'm @shessomickey on Twitter.
Julia: Do it, @Amanda.
Amanda: Do you know who I would @, Julia, if I have questions I felt a little bit silly about not knowing but I wanted to go to a trusted source who I knew would, like, take me seriously and just give me a really respectful answer?
Julia: I bet it's our new patrons.
Amanda: Our new patrons; Brie, Haley, its Jessa not Jenna, and Sparr. Thank you so, so much for joining us on Patreon. You help us do things like buy equipment and pay for hosting and pay Moiya to be on the show. It's very, very helpful and we love it and thank you.
Julia: Yes, you're all – you're all wonderful human beings. And you join the ranks of other wonderful human beings including our supporting producer level patrons; Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Debra, Hannah, Jane, Jen, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Liz, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Polly, Sarah, Skyla, and SamneyTodd.
Amanda: As well as our legend level patrons; Audra, Drew, Jack Marie, Ki, Lada, Mark, Morgan, Necroroyalty, Renegade, Sanna, and Bea Me Up Scotty.
Julia: What wonderful human beings. They can give me advice anytime.
Amanda: Absolutely. And, Julia, speaking of advice, I will always listen to your recommendations. Do you have anything you've been reading, watching, or listening to this week?
Julia: Amanda, the animated Harley Quinn show on HBO Max is extremely good.
Amanda: It is so good. We had a DC Universe subscription just to watch that show and Doom Patrol. Both of them are so good. But now it's on HBO Max.
Julia: Yes. And it is extremely enjoyable. I had Jake put it on telling him nothing about the show other than it was a Harley Quinn show.
Amanda: Oh, my god, I bet he loved it.
Julia: And, like, the second line in the entire show, Jake was like, “What, what is happening? This is so good. What's going on?”
Amanda: I can picture him, like, Halloween. It is such a thoughtful show. It's so good.
Julia: It's extremely, extremely good. We're, like, halfway through the second season right now and, mwah, chef’s kiss.
Amanda: Hmm. Hell yeah. And, you know, finally, we just wanted to thank – I know we do it every week, but a huge thank you to everybody who supports us on Patreon. It is very hard to make a living as an independent podcaster. And we have one of the best communities, I think, in podcasting because you all support us financially. You support us in other ways. You support us by saying, you know, supportive stuff and by recommending the show to your friends, whether or not you have the financial resources to support us on Patreon. And we really, really appreciate that. We pay all of our guests. We pay for hosting. We pay for equipment. And, you know, we pay ourselves that we don't have to take other jobs and can dedicate the time that we do to make a weekly show for you all. So, it is so appreciated. And, if you have a little bit of money that you would like to use to support creators, not just us, but creators that you love and you want to support their work and make it happen, we really, really appreciate that. But, if we make the cut to support us for even just a couple bucks a month over on Patreon, that link is patreon.com/spiritspodcast.
Julia: And you get some really cool things as rewards for pledging to our Patreon. I make recipe cards for cocktails and mocktails for every single episode. I do behind-the-scenes commentary. We do a additional monthly urban legends episodes that's just for our $4 and above patrons. So, if you have a little extra money to throw our way, it's, like, less than the price of Netflix now. So, that's cool.
Amanda: Absolutely. And, again, if you can, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And you even texting one friend, “Hey, there's this podcast, Spirits, I think you would enjoy,” is also super, super helpful to help us grow our show. You know, we're in year six of doing this now after we passed our five-year anniversary. And it is – yeah, it's – it's hard to, like, promote a show that's been around for this long. So, we really, you know, rely on and appreciate you all helping us to do that. Well, without further ado, we hope you appreciate our advice and enjoy Episode 19: Advice from Folklore II with Moiya McTier.
Intro Music
Amanda: Welcome to another episode of Advice from Folklore where we have special guests advice giver extraordinaire, Moiya McTier, here to join us as we try to channel the wisdom and experience and inspiration of our favorite people from folklore and not even our favorite necessarily but from suitable figures in folklore, mythology, and, and World Religions here on Spirits.
Julia: I don't think we're trying. I think we're succeeding in channeling these deities and spirits.
Moiya: Yeah, I can feel these gods moving through me and directing my fingers as I type the responses.
Amanda: Incredible.
Julia: It's a very spiritual experience and we're glad that we can share it all with you.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: We're just vessels, you know.
Moiya: Just vessels. It’s we are.
Julia: We just – as I said in the first episode, we just like, you know, inhale some mysterious smoke and then we channel Zeus through oak leaves and stuff and here we are.
Moiya: Yeah. And it has nothing to do with, like, carbon monoxide leaks or anything --
Julia: Uh-umm, not at all.
Moiya: -- any weird noxious gasses. Yeah.
Julia: Shout out Oracle of Delphi.
Amanda: Well, you know, none of us really have time, I don't think, in this – in this short mortal world to sort of dither and to, like, not ask the big questions. So, I would love to start with a question from Em on Instagram who asked, “I love the person I'm currently dating, but I'm not sure if I'm in love with him. Advice?”
Julia: Well, I've got this one. Thank you, Amanda.
Amanda: Oh, please.
Julia: Dear Em, you might have assumed that our mother would have been the one to come forward and lend you advice. But we are her children and we understand that there are many sides of love. If you were to ask Eros, the oldest of us and the closest to our mother, he would ask you of desire. To look upon your partner and want them. But the rest of us know that love is not simply that or can even exist without our brother Eros. Hedylogos would ask of flattery. Do they make you feel loved and feel special with simply their words? But Hedylogos was always concerned with words. Pothos asks, “When they are gone, do you miss them? When they return, does it fill your heart?” But, most importantly, Anteros will ask, “Are your needs met?” Whatever your language of love you speak, do you want to speak it to your partner? Are you loved and do you love in return? If not, perhaps it is time to consider what kind of love is most important to you. Yours in love, the Erotes. So, in Greek mythology, the Erotes we're basically Aphrodite’s squad. Most of them were said to be either her children or related to her in some way and they're all associated with love and sex. Each of the individual Erotes represents a particular aspect of love. And, actually, fun fact, a lot of Erotes were tied to same sex desire. So, they're just like queer winged kids of Aphrodite, which is a lot of fun.
Amanda: Love it.
Julia: A lot of stories around the Erotes had to do with them playing pranks or messing with mortals. But I think that this advice comes from a, a good place rather than them trying to mess with you. A couple of the group didn't chime in for this advice, but here's a complete list of them. It's Anteros, who is the god of requited love or love returned, there's Eros, the god of love and intercourse, Hedylogos, who is the god of sweet talk and flattery, Himeros, who's the god of desire, unrequited love, and “uncontrollable desire.” So, I'm glad he didn't chime in. Hymen, who is the god of weddings and marriage and Pothos, who is the god of yearning and longing for someone who is absent.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: And the last member of the Erotes is Hermaphroditus, who is the god of androgyny and effeminacy, the son of Hermes and Aphrodite. He was born as a young man who then the naiad Salmacis fell in love with. And she prayed to the gods that she and Hermaphroditus would be united forever. And, for once, they actually listened and kind of did her good because they combined the two into a single being. So, Hermaphroditus is, as a result, associated with, like, weddings and marriages, symbolizing the coming together between a man and a woman. Obviously, marriage is not just between men and women. You've listened to this podcast. Come on, guys.
Amanda: You get it.
Julia: But I didn't include Hermaphroditus’ answer to this question because, I think, they kind of represent something a little more serious than what this question asker is probably looking for at the moment.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: Fabulous.
Moiya: I don't think I would want to be, like, literally joined with my partner all the time. I hope that it works out for Hermaphroditus and, and – who is the other person?
Julia: Salmacis.
Moiya: Salmacis. I hope it works out for them. But that's not personally my cup of tea, I don't think.
Julia: Well, was it Plato or Socrates who also, like, theorized that --
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: -- or, at least, told the story that, like, all human beings used to be one being and then the gods were like, “These are too powerful,” and then just split them?
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: And that's how they got soulmates. So, I guess, like, that is kind of, like, the reverse of it, where it's like, “Yes, I will be joined with my soulmate forever and will be one person.” Also, it kind of reminds me of a, like, Steven Universe fusion, which is kind of nice.
Moiya: I'm familiar with that story because of Hedwig and the Angry Inch. So --
Julia: Yeah, that's it.
Moiya: Yeah, that's the one.
Julia: It's a good song.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: But, yeah, I think that the Erotes would recommend for Em, hey, love comes from having your needs met and making sure that you also want to fulfill the needs of your partner. So, if you're not feeling that, maybe it's time to reconsider whether or not this person is giving you the emotional needs that you need.
Amanda: Yeah, I think, over time, you know – you know, love deepens becomes something, you know, that’s, like, flashy than it is at the beginning, which is, you know, choosing every day to love this person, to prioritize them, you know, to make them your family. But, early on, I personally am a fan of the, if it's not a fuck yes, it's a no, School of Life --
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: -- which is, if you feel, you know, someone asks you out or if you're asking yourself if you want to go on another date with them, if the answer isn’t fuck yes, then, like, you don't – you don't have to do it. I personally felt a lot of sort of like obligation to people. Like, okay, well, if I go on a date and I’m not really feeling it, then maybe I, I – something's wrong with me and I should go on a second date and I should see how it goes. And, listen, people, life is too short. I really think that. So, you know, I think, on the one hand, it, it takes time for that connection to develop. And that can be a process that, that rewards – you know, investment and, like, rewards you over time. But, at the same time, you know, you, you don't need permission or even necessarily good reason to break up with someone. If you're not feeling it and it's on a fuck yes, then you're allowed to – you know, to, to let them know and let each of you kind of find, you know, the next thing.
Julia: Yeah.
Moiya: I also think it's worth saying that all relationships don't have to end in marriage. And, like, it's totally okay to date someone just because you think they're like a fun person to be around or you enjoy dating. It doesn't have to be like a big romantic capital L love situation.
Julia: Yeah. And I think that's part of the reason I felt the desire to channel the Erotes. Like, genuinely, there are different kinds of love. You can be like, “Oh, man, that person is extremely sexy and I want to be with them all the time.” And, like, that is a very different kind of love than like, “I missed this person immensely when they are gone,” or, like, the kind of love where it's like, “Yes, I want to spend the rest of my life with this person. I want to marry them. I want to, like, you know, follow through with that commitment.” Like, there are different kinds of love and different, like, ways of expressing it. And, like, you know, everything from, like, monogamy to polyamory is, like, totally fine and okay. And you just have to figure out what works best for you and find a partner that that also works for.
Amanda: Yeah, that's a great point.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: If it's sort of the societal pressure of feeling like, well, you must be in love with them and have, like, Pepé Le Pew eyes at all times; otherwise, it's like not a real relationship. You can let that go. And, particularly, I think, as you're sort of finding your way through a relationship, you know, early on or for the first time, maybe it can feel like, well, if it doesn't mapped on to the, you know, completely not toxic romantic comedies I've seen in my life, then like it's not legitimate or it's not going right. But, if you are enjoying yourself, you're communicating well, if nobody needs something from the other one, you know, that you're – you're not able to give them, like, that's fine and you don't have to feel that pressure. But, on the other hand, if you're feeling like, “I liked them a lot. I don't know if this is for me,” you're allowed. So, I would say listen to your heart. Communicate well. Be honest when you guys talk. Check in and see how they're feeling. See how you're feeling. And, other than that, like, any, any outcome is the right outcome. Like, the outcome you choose is the right outcome for you.
Julia: Yeah. Also, to like validate any people who are like Arrow or Ace that are listening to our podcast, that's fine, too.
Amanda: Absolutely. It’s not required.
Julia: Exactly.
Amanda: And, now, we have – I think, flipping to quite a practical question. This is changing the path. It's from Malou on Instagram, “Thinking of changing my career from healthcare to teaching. It's scary and I'm afraid to fail.”
Moiya: Oh, I got this one. By, by way of Janus or Janus, the Roman god of gates, doors, and transitions. So, Janus says, “Dear Malou, it can be scary to stand in a liminal space at the precipice of what you've surely consider a life changing decision. But, when you've stood in as many doorways and transition spaces as we have, you start to realize that the boundary between your two options isn't as stark as you may have originally thought. War fades away to peace, the wind from one room flows into another, and a new year can arrive unannounced and indistinguishable from the last if you let it sneak up on you. If you find yourself at this juncture, it's likely that your two options have more in common than you realize. They might require similar skills or ask you to tap into similar networks. Find that similarity and wrap it around yourself like a familiar armor as you step across this threshold. When you get scared, look to the past and remember that you faced and overcome plenty of challenges before. You won't be a less capable person just because you've stepped into another room.” So, like I said, Janus is the Roman god of gates, doors, and transitions, but, also, like, beginnings, and childbirth, and war. Pretty much anything that has a beginning or an end, Janus has dominion over. He's often depicted with two faces; one looking backwards to the past and one looking forwards to the future. So, in my mind, that response from Janus was in, like, two different voices. He or they are one of the oldest Roman gods dating back to the time of Romulus, the legendary founder of Rome, which is pretty cool.
Julia: Oh, hey.
Moiya: Yeah. And, when Ancient Roman armies march to war, they would have to pass through Jani, which are these large freestanding gates. But there were superstitions about how they had to march through the gates if they wanted, you know, to prosper in their, their war adventures. The most famous of these gates stood on either side of the Janus Gemini, which I think just means like, like, the twin gates.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: It’s a rectangular structure at the north side of the Roman Forum. And it’s said that, during times of war, the doors to the Janus Gemini were open. And they were closed during times of peace. And Roman emperors could make claims about their competency as rulers based on how often the doors were closed during their reign. And I think it's Augustus that has the record at, like, the doors were closed three times while he was emperor of Rome.
Julia: That is very, very cool. Amanda recommended to me and I'm currently reading the Cleopatra book that she's mentioned many a time on this podcast.
Amanda: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Julia: And we just got up to Octavian and Mark Antony kind of squaring off after Caesar has been killed.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: And, ho-boy, yeah, I can – I can see the like, oh, claims of legitimacy and whatnot. I really liked what Janus had to say about the idea of, like, looking backwards and seeing that you have, you know, gone through something like this before and kind of gaining strength from that, because that is something that I talked to my therapist about all the time.
Moiya: Hmm.
Julia: Especially about, like, anxiety of the future. And she's like, “Yeah, but you've done things like this before. Can you – can you, like, look back and see all of the times that you've succeeded and that things didn't go terribly, terribly wrong?” And I'm like, “Yeah, I can, but it’s just a matter of convincing my brain that that is actually the case.”
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: And I think that is, like, really good advice. It’s, like, look back at the past. Everything leading up to this point indicates that it won't be terrible as you move into the future.
Moiya: Yeah, especially like you're not – you're not a totally drastically different person if you change your careers. I mean, likely, these stemmed from, like, similar interests or, or just talents that you have. So, it's often really easy to just ignore what we've done in the past.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: But, yeah, let's – let's pay attention to it. And I think that, if you're a god who can look into the past and into the future, I feel like looking into the past would be more helpful.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: I think that, going through these transitions, you know, you're totally right. Like, they, they prepare you in a way. And they're getting, you know, reps under your belt. Like, they’re practice. And, you know, if you are blessed with a long life, then, hopefully, you have many more of these kinds of transitions in front of you, whether that is moving, or your family structure, or hobbies, or, you know, the ways you present and think about yourself in the world. And, just from a purely practical point of view, having multiple careers qualifies you for each successive career differently than anyone else.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: Like, your, your Venn diagram have different kinds of expertise and experience. And the more disparate those circles, the more interesting the thing in the middle is.
Julia: Oh.
Amanda: Like, I am unlike any other person making a podcast because I worked in finance and in, like, startups before starting a podcast. And not many people I know have that exact overlapping situation. Am I necessarily, you know, better off than if I had started my career knowing I wanted to work in podcasting? I don't know. But I am different. And, if you think about the sort of, you know, capitalist myth that, like, we all have to compete with each other and, if you're going into a job interview one day and somebody says, “Well, it seems like you've changed your career. Like, tell me about that.” You can be like, “Actually, you know what? I learned a lot of really relevant stuff in the healthcare setting about administration and taking care of people and, you know, thinking about like the, the patient's experience in the way that I feel like just straight teaching doesn't prepare you for necessarily.” Or whatever the overlap is it is not a deficit. It is more tools in your toolbox. And, if you watch my favorite show, The Repair Shop, you will see that the, the clockmaker, Steve, the horologist, does not just use clockmaker tools. He uses dentist drills. He uses, like, weird picks that his other colleagues have from across the room. He uses the tools he has that he needs to get the job done. And that's not just from one set place.
Julia: I really appreciated Janus’ advice. But can we talk to Steve, the horologist, about some advice that he has for this listener?
Moiya: Yes, please.
Amanda: I would love that.
Moiya: Also, I love the visualization of the Venn diagram. I think that that would be a really great practical exercise. Like, literally sit down and take the time to make a Venn diagram of your various realms of expertise and see the interesting places where they overlap. And I think there were a lot of questions that we didn't get to and that we're not going to get to. And I think this advice applies to a lot of those questions.
Julia: Absolutely.
Amanda: Yeah, that might include, you know, your time as a babysitter, your time as a parent or a caregiver. It could be, you know, your hobby, beta reading fanfiction, like that – all the things that you do. You don't have to monetize all of them. But I think it does make a lot of sense to kind of take an inventory of you and all your areas of expertise regardless of the ones that are highly compensated or that people tell you that you should have. Like, all of those are skills that you have, things that make you you. And I think if you are unsure of like what your next step is, or what next job to have, or you're feeling frustrated and, like, unsure of which direction to go in your career, this can be really helpful. Kind of doing that audit, figuring out what you like, and also thinking, “Man, like, what other circle can I add to this Venn diagram? Like, what other set of expertise? Like, what can I learn on a job that, after I do that job, will give me an even more interesting intersection?” And I have found that very helpful in thinking about job moves in the past. But, regardless, it’s gonna be scary. You are gonna be fine. No one is more qualified than you to make this particular transition in your particular life.
Julia: Also, practical, gritty advice, include all of this in your cover letter, because, if your resume is a different thing for, like, different area of work and you're applying for all of these new jobs in a new field, explain why in your cover letter because you won't be able to do it until you get to the actual interview portion to explain it in person. Explain why those skills that you have in one thing apply into the skills of the other field.
Amanda: And then the hiring manager will be like critical thinking about personal narrative, “I want to talk to this person.”
Moiya: And, if you are in academia and deal with CVs instead of resumes and cover letters, there aren't really many places where you can put this type of information in a traditional academic CV. But I am personally a big proponent of making your own CV sections. So, definitely put that right up at the top before people, like, learn about your publications and, and service and teaching and stuff.
Julia: You got this.
Amanda: Let's zoom out one level and deal with, I think, a similar quandary on a different scale. This is titled Plan Less from ArchBiologist on Instagram. For the first time in my life, I don't have a set plan for my future. It is absolutely terrifying. Any advice?
Julia: So, congratulations, ArchBiologist for you have stepped into my domain. It is a place with no definable boundaries. It morphs and shifts in every moment and in every direction. Every doorway you pass through is my domain because the between is holy. You are at the crossroads of your life, which means you have entered my embrace. There are all kinds of crossroads, large and small, and they all have meaning. It is okay to pause in the space, to take a breath and rest in this moment of uncertainty. You have many options in front of you and I know that can be overwhelming. But it is also a moment of excitement. You have the opportunity to choose your path again, to set your course on your own terms because, outside this place, the world is a world of boundaries, walls, paths, gates, and locks. But, in this moment, we may speak and I may hand you a key to whatever door you decide to open. You might not know what is beyond it. And there are many doors beyond that or more forks in the roads, more crossroads beyond that which you cannot see. But isn't that the exciting part? The path you set for yourself is yours to forge. That is the beauty of the liminal, of the space in the doorway that is neither here nor there. With you here, Hecate. So, I think many people kind of fall under the misconception that Hecate is this sort of like evil goddess of witchcraft and darkness and stuff. Like, that's how we usually see her portrayed in modern day media. But she is, like, a goddess of witchcraft in Greek mythology, but she's not evil. And she's extremely multifaceted. She is the goddess of night, of magic, of knowledge of herbs and plants, of ghosts, and, most importantly, to the answer she provided here, crossroads, similar to, to Janus in a way. She is usually presented as triple formed or triple bodied and is shown standing either above or around a column. Typically, she is shown holding several different objects. Most importantly to her crossroads aspects, keys and torches, kind of lighting the way but also opening doors and gates. Ovid in a description of her rights, “Look at Hecate, standing guard at the crossroads one face looking in each direction.” So, as her response kind of implied, she's the goddess of crossroads and boundaries. And she was also associated with city walls, doorways, borders, and, by extension, the realms that are past the world of the living. So, again, that kind of underworld death association with her. But, mostly, she is the goddess of the between or a liminal goddess. Also – and this has nothing to do with the answer that she provided with her advice here, but she is portrayed as being accompanied by dogs since they acted, you know, as like watchdogs of guarded households and borders that she always just had a pack of dogs with her. So, I love her in particular.
Amanda: That's very important color. Thank you.
Julia: You're welcome. You're welcome. But I think that she does, like, provide a good point. Like, it is very scary to know that, like, all of these options exist just beyond the, like, space that you are currently occupying. But that is also, like, a very exciting part. Like, Moiya, you might remember my argument from the Head Heart Gut episode about which was better; the past, the present, or the future. And my argument being the future because, literally, anything is possible in the future. And, by kind of taking this moment to choose your path and where you're going to go, you're opening up the possibility of whatever you choose on whatever path you're taking.
Moiya: I think, for me, the scariest part of that is being comfortable closing doors once you do make a decision.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: And I haven't thought of a way to just be comfortable with that. I haven't thought of a healthy way to be comfortable with that. A very unhealthy way that I have figured this out is to burn bridges and then, when I have to close those doors, it's fine because I don't want to go back because the bridge is burnt anyway. So, I don't know. Do you have – do you have a healthy way of being okay with closing doors?
Julia: I'll also say, like, if you're taking a bridge to cross a river and you burned the bridge behind you, that's not the only bridge that crosses that river. If you need to go back, you can. And, like, I think this applies to the, the last question that we have as well, which is, like, it, it's never too late to do the thing that you want to do. Like, if you decide, “Okay. I'm gonna choose a different career path,” and you're like – I don't know – 40 or 50. Like, my mom got her second graduate degree when she was, like, 45 or 50. Like, that's awesome and she can do what she wants with it. And, now, she didn't have to just be a teacher. She could be a librarian as well. So, it's, like, there's always time to change the path that you're on. And it's very possible that you could take a bunch of different cross roads that end up leading you back to the decision that you're making currently. You know, if that's something you decide you want to turn back to go to, there's probably a roundabout way of doing that. It's like a three rights make a left or whatever.
Amanda: That's very true. There's a – there's a plot of an episode of Elementary where they find out who the bad guys are because they see, like, a FedEx truck making a left. And they're like, “That's not allowed. They all turn right to optimize their delivery routes.”
Julia: Oh, I don't know that.
Amanda: Which, which is true. I think it’s UPS, one of the two. You know what I mean?
Moiya: I love that.
Amanda: Relevant to this question, for me, the big challenge of crossroads decisions is I feel like there is a right answer and that, unless I guess it, everything will be ruined. And, like I said in the previous question, you know, most of the time, there is no objective right answer. If it was, it wouldn't be a quandary. You would just do it. And, I think, when you are stuck on a decision or feel that there are, you know, paths forking in front of you and it feels irrevocable to go back, like, you, you can never go back. We can't ever go back to yesterday. You can't ever go back to not knowing something that you then found out or, you know, having information you learn a year from now that would have changed what you do today. You just don't have it. And I wish that I did. I wish that I could only ever and always make choices that really smooth my path and that saved me from, from harm or from suffering. But none of your paths are gonna be free of suffering. None of them are gonna be free of mistakes. None of them are going to be completely easy. And, I think, really none of them is right. So, if what you are struggling with is justifying the one you want to do or choosing between things that on paper looks similar, I think, you're allowed to follow your heart. And, if your heart doesn't really have a vote, then you are allowed to go with the one that, for whatever random reason or on paper reason, feels best to you, whether you think about the sort of Venn diagram theory and think, “Okay. Well, which city, or job, or school will give me, like, the most new and interesting experiences or the ones that will best complement kind of things I know I want to learn?” That's always helpful. If it's about, you know, where would I rather deal with problems? Would I rather deal with problems here in the city about, you know, apartments? Or would I rather deal with problems about, like, foundations and rooms in house, you know, in the country? Like, you can choose the problems that you are going to face. And that, sometimes, for me is a sort of more clear-eyed way of making that choice than by hoping and pretending that one of these choices is going to be completely devoid of problems.
Julia: Yeah, absolutely. I also – I don't know if this is just like a pandemic feeling. But, like, lately, I've just been waking up and, sometimes, my brain will be like, “Hey, what if we just dropped everything, moved in to a cabin in the country, and just like saw what happened?” I'm like, “That seems like a terrible idea.” Like, on paper, probably, it’s great. But, like, not gonna happen. Like, talk about burning bridges. It’s just like, “I'm gonna drop all of the things that I'm required to do and just go do something else.” And, yeah, that is definitely a path that you could take, but it probably isn't the right path.
Amanda: I feel that with apartments, Julia, where I'll be like, “Oh, man, if only I’ve chosen that other apartment, I wouldn't have the, you know, really expensive heating bill.” But, in the other apartment, maybe I would have had a pest problem, or a really noisy neighbor, or, you know, a roof that leaks. Like, there's always gonna be something. And I don't know. For me, that's my main challenge. It’s like I'm never gonna avoid suffering entirely, you know.
Julia: Yeah. Well, now that we've – we've burned the bridge to the rest of this episode, why don't we go and grab a refill and see what the path that lies ahead has to offer.
Midroll Music
Amanda: Julia, we are sponsored this week by Stitch Fix. And I've talked before, as a very tall lady and a plus size person too, it can be very, very hard to find different styles online. If you want to find a tunic or a pair of leggings that's kind of shiny, I can – I can tell you where to go. But, if I want to say something like, “Oh, hey, I'm looking for, you know, fitted tunics that I can wear with leggings, but I don't want them to be strappy. And I also am allergic to wool and, like, you know, get a rash if I wear, like, polyester. So, it really has to be cotton,” that's very hard to just search for it. And you can’t search for it just on Google or whatever. But I can let my stylists know that on Stitch Fix and they will pull for me a bunch of styles that are in my budget, in my price range, and fit me, which is, oh, god, such a gift.
Julia: I asked recently for just a bunch of sweaters. I was just like, “Just send me all the sweaters. I'm so cold all the time, please.”
Amanda: Aww.
Julia: And they sent me a bunch of really great sweaters but one that I super loved, which is this all of cowl neck one. And it had those sleeves where they have the thumb holes so it goes all the way over my hand except for my fingers. Oh, it was perfect.
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Julia: Yeah. So, get started today at stitchfix.com/spirits and you'll get 25 percent off when you keep everything in your fix. That is stitchfix.com/spirits for 25 percent off when you keep everything in your fix, stitchfix.com/spirits. Amanda, I've just been really appreciating your hair goals lately. Every time we, we video chat on these recordings and stuff, I'm just like, “Damn. Amanda's just rockin that hair.” And I know – I know --
Amanda: Thank you.
Julia: -- part of it is your, your sweet, sweet barber. But I know the other part of it is the fact that we're both rocking Function of Beauty haircare products.
Amanda: And, Julia, I know you haven't smelled me in over a year, which is a very funny thing to say. But I also smell great because I get to choose the scents that go with my Function of Beauty products and the scent levels. So, with a sweet soft, allergenic person like me, I can smell very faintly of eucalyptus. And that's all I've ever wanted.
Julia: When I come to bed after I have washed my hair, Jake always comments. He's like, “You smell really nice.” I’m like, “Thank you.”
Amanda: Aww.
Julia: It's my – it's my haircare product. It’s from Function of Beauty. And Function of Beauty is the world leader in customizable beauty offering precise formulations for your haircare specific needs. So, you just take a really quick and thorough quiz. You tell them about your hair type, your hair goals, do you want to lengthen it, do you want to volumize it, do you want oil control, that sort of thing. Then you choose your color and your fragrance like Amanda and I said. Sometimes, you want a light eucalyptus. Sometimes, you want to reek of roses like me and it's great. And then Function’s team determines the perfect blend of ingredients. They bottle up your formula. And they get it delivered right to your door. And every ingredient Function of Beauty uses is vegan and cruelty free. And they never use sulfates or parabens. So, it's really just like the good perfect thing for your hair. There are over 54 trillion possible formulations, which is wild. I can't even imagine that.
Amanda: Wow.
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Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: So, go to functionofbeauty.com/spirits to let them know that you came from our show and to get 20 percent off your order, functionofbeauty.com/spirits. And, finally, we are sponsored by BetterHelp. If there is something that's interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals or you want some help dealing with the stress of just everything, where I often start sessions with my BetterHelp therapist by being like, “Yeah, I'm stressed out by, you know, everything.” And she's like, “Yeah,” and she gets it. But, also, we can go through strategies and ways to do, you know, mindfulness, and meditation, and visualizing, and to deal in those moments of panic or of stress. And I so appreciate that I get to talk with my own licensed professional therapist on my time, on my schedule, and for cheaper than traditional offline counseling, which, trust me, I need. So, if you want to try BetterHelp, you should. They are absolutely fantastic. They are available worldwide. And their counselors have a huge range of expertise. So, if it might not be locally available in your area, that's okay. You can still get a counselor specializing in whatever identity or particular issue that you are looking for help with. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Spirits podcast listeners get 10 percent off their first month at betterhelp.com/spirits. Listen, guys, go to betterhelp.com/spirits, betterH-E-L-P.com/spirits, to join the over 1 million people who've taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional and get 10 percent off your first month. Thanks, BetterHelp. Now, let's get back to the show. Well, guys, I’ve figured out and I found out there, there's another bridge leading out of the refill.
Julia: Whoa!
Amanda: We found the one going into it. We found the one going out of it. Isn't that great?
Moiya: That is great.
Julia: Do we all grab cocktails before we move to the other bridge? We're good. Moiya, you, you recommended a great cocktail for us last time that your, your partner makes. Has he come up with any new, new contraptions, concoctions?
Moiya: Yes. So, the old one was the Weltini. I think we did come up with a, a new one. We don't have a name for it, but it's basically the same thing. So, the Weltini is cranberry juice, triple sec, and vodka. And I think the, the new one is, is just gin instead of vodka.
Julia: Oh, hell yeah. That's like a Cosmo, but, now, it's more floral.
Moiya: Yeah, I, I --
Julia: Whoa! Why don't we name it after Cosmo?
Moiya: Whoa! Yes, with a K. I love it.
Julia: With a delightful cat. Yes, we're gonna call it the Kosmopolitan with a K now. So, perfect, we found it. We found our cocktail. Nice.
Amanda: Oh, beautiful. Well, this question is titled Stagnant. And it comes to us from Alex Dedam. I recently started grad school for various reasons; to escape my previous situation because I love learning academic discussions, et cetera. And I recently hit a wall. I discovered that love of learning isn't really enough to propel me through getting a master's degree in the middle of pandemic. So, my question for the gods is, “What do you do when the path you thought was correct turns out to be not at all what you expected or wanted it to be? How do you know if it's simply fear and frustration or if you're truly meant to find a new way through?”
Moiya: Oof, Alex, such a great question. So relevant, at least, to me right now. And, to help both of us, actually, we have Aranyani, the Hindu goddess of forests and animals. So, Aranyani says, “Dearest Alex, there are no paths in the forest, except, for the ones that the animals make because the forest itself has no need for them. One sure-footed tiger cuts its path through the brush and branches and others follow in its footsteps. And, over time, the path becomes so well-trodden that it can seem like it must have been there forever. But, sometimes, when a strong wind lays a great tree to rest or a heavy rainfall floods the forest in its murky embrace, the path is hidden. And, yet, the animals do not panic. Some animals recognize that the obstacle in their way is temporary and simply wait to resume their journey until the path is clear again. Maybe you don't love learning enough to do it in a pandemic, but this too shall pass. Other animals remember that the path itself is temporary and that there are other ways to reach their destination if only they're willing to stray from the familiar route. They are wise enough to remember that there are no correct paths, just convenient ones. It's up to them and you to decide when the path you're on is no longer convenient.”
Julia: Hey, this one gave me chills. Hell yeah.
Moiya: Yay. Aranyani is so, so good at giving advice. She's the Hindu goddess of forest and the animals who live in them. She animates and protects the forest and provides food for creatures within her realm. She is said to be elusive. She prefers a quiet glade in the forest to any sort of populated settlement. And she's not afraid of remote places. She just goes out into the forest fearless, even though, she knows she's not going to, like, interact with another person while she's there. So, she's mentioned in one of the hymns of the Rigveda, a sacred Hindu text. It's actually, like, really beautiful. One of Aranyani’s supplicants is basically just saying like, “Wow. You're so beautiful. You live in this forest. Why aren't you afraid?” I read the hymn. I feel like Aranyani’s response is just like, “This is who I am. It's who I'm meant to be.”
Julia: Wow.
Moiya: Yeah. It's said that Aranyani was born of the Kalpavriksha tree, which is a sacred wish granting tree in Hindu mythology. So, the story goes that, one day, Shiva and Parvati were walking through the forest when they stopped to look at a tree. Parvati asked Shiva if any of the trees were more special than the others and he suggested making a wish to the tree before them. So, Parvati meditated and she made a wish to this tree. And Shiva granted that wish with a breath and then Aranyani emerged from the tree. And Parvati then said the hymn that mentions Aranyani in the Rigveda. I think Aranyani is beautiful. She's, like, a nice forest dancer who wears bells on her ankles so that, even though there's no one around, she still makes noise as she walks through the forest.
Julia: Aww.
Moiya: And I just think she has some really nice things to say about what you can do if your path doesn't meet your expectations.
Julia: I do like that we're really – we're really going on paths today. There are a lot of crossroads.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: We are forging a lot of paths. I'm super into that because it is – like, it's a weird time to be doing the things that we thought we were going to do maybe a year or two ago. And, now, everything's different and weird and trying to figure it out is a challenge. So, I really loved that imagery of, like, the path being wiped out because I think that's, like, very much the case for a lot of people. I think that's some great advice that she gave. I'm trying to think if I have anything to add to it, but I think she, she really did sum it up pretty well in my opinion.
Amanda: And I love that observation too that there are lots of ways to get to the same destination. And, if, you know, your love of learning, Alex, is best served a different way, or from a different angle, or at a different time, I think it's okay if you don't want to learn right now when all of your resources are being spent surviving, like it is for so many of us, that's okay. And you can get there. And this is not the only way through.
Moiya: Absolutely. I think this ties in with what we were talking about before. Like, you can have multiple careers. Make multiple transitions. You can return to your master's program. You can choose to, to get to whatever your destination is in some other way that maybe you haven't even thought of yet and that's really exciting.
Julia: Yeah, I mean, look, look at Amanda and I. Five years ago, we did not think we were going to be going into podcasting. I didn't even really know what a podcast was, you know, more than slightly longer than five years. And the fact that we get to do that now for a living is, is fantastic. So, I think that you will find a way to go about learning and continue loving to learn when the path kind of presents itself to you. And maybe it doesn't mean going to grad school. Maybe it means just, like, taking a couple of courses at, like, a community college or something like that as you have the time and energy to do them. Like, I was just thinking about this the other day. I was like, “I really do miss just, like, attending classes.” I don't miss homework. I don't miss, like, required reading. But I do miss learning something from an expert and them taking the time to teach me something. But I would not have the energy to take any sort of, like, full time classes right now.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: And, you know, that's just a matter of figuring out, like, my needs and requirements as I think about what learning would mean to me if I moved forward with that.
Amanda: Also, fear and frustration are okay. Like, I, I thought that the way Alex phrased the question was really interesting to me. How do you know if it's simply fear and frustration or if you're truly meant to find a new way through? That's okay. Like, you can fear something and then not do it. You can get frustrated with something and that's reason enough to decide not to do it. I switched careers because I was frustrated with my career. I didn't find it fun. I just had like a, you know, soul sort of deep feeling that it wasn't for me. And I did fear what would happen if I felt the same way, you know, two, three, or four years later. That is enough. And I, I think you need no one's permission but your own if this is what you want to do.
Moiya: Yeah, we're not meant to be uncomfortable.
Amanda: That's true. Agreed.
Moiya: Fear and frustration aren't necessarily prices for, like, success, whatever that means for you.
Julia: Yeah, I feel, like, we try to ingrain into, like, children and stuff very early on. It's like, “Oh, well, don't just quit just because you're frustrated with it.” You're like, “Yeah, but, sometimes, like, frustration can stop me from achieving my goal. Like, maybe I'm frustrated in this moment and I need to take a breather for five minutes before I go back to this task. And then I'll be able to finish it.” But, like, stopping something because you're frustrated is not the end of the world.
Amanda: Yeah, it's one thing to make a decision in the – you know, in a snap sort of moment when you're like in the middle of your frustration. But, even if, you know, you're frustrated with your program while you're in a class or getting an email or doing an assignment and then later that evening, you're like, “Yeah, this is the 20th time I've been really frustrated like this.” Like, it's not just an impulse. It's a pattern. And you are allowed to learn from patterns. I think the – sort of the human brains unmistakable and unshakable need to make narrative is fascinating. And I love it and I would have no other brain. But, also, that makes it really, really hard to feel like you are taking a twist that you wouldn't see in a story or taking a step that you only ever see, like, regretted in a flashback in a movie. And you will figure out a way to make your choices make sense in your brain afterward. And you don't need to, like, make the life decisions according to what you think sounds most logical when you describe it to somebody else. And that is the thing that I 100 percent fall sort of victim to and find myself, you know, occupied with when what I should be thinking about is what is right for me and me only.
Julia: Hell yeah. We're just, like, nodding because that was good advice.
Moiya: Yes.
Julia: For the audio, agreed.
Amanda: Nod, nod, nod.
Julia: Nod, nod, nod.
Amanda: I need a little break from existential despair for a moment guys. Let's go with Money, Money, Money from LizzieNelson720. Guide me, please. I need fucking direction with my money making side.
Julia: I got this. And, Amanda, I feel like you're gonna have some good practical advice based off of my goddess’ advice, but let's go.
Amanda: Hell yeah.
Julia: Dear Lizzie, I am one of seven. We are said to be lucky, to be fortunate, and to give fortune. Because there are seven of us, I know better than anyone that fortune comes in many forms. The fishermen asked for abundance in their nets and on their tables. And, so, they pray to Ebisu. Farmers pray for prosperity and make their offerings to Daikokuten. Barman and children offer up their thanks to Hotei who brings popularity as his fortune. But you asked about money and that is my domain. I am the goddess of all that flows of water, of time, of words and speech, of music and knowledge, and, of course, of money. Those who come to me are not merchants, or fishermen, or farmers. Instead, they are the writers, the dancers, the singers, those who, unfortunately, are often faced with less monetary prosperity. But this is the knowledge that flows from me to them. Fortune always favors a plan. Take the musician as an example. Beautiful work has come from improvisation to be sure, but it has never rivaled an orchestra working together to play a symphony. As you flow down the river that is your life, it is best to be able to guide your path with an oar rather than allow the water to take you wherever it may please. Give yourself all the tools to succeed, the knowledge to lead you where you need to go. Fortune will be within your grasp and you will not need me to hand it to you. Yours, Benzaiten. Benzaiten, also known as Benten, is one of the Japanese Fukujin or the seven lucky gods. In Buddhism, she's also the patron goddess of literature and music as well as wealth. Like she said in her advice, she is the goddess of all things that flow. She's also associated with the ocean. Most of her shrines are actually located near the ocean. And she's usually depicted as riding a sea dragon, which legend said that she was married to, fun fact. The marriage was said to be a union to kind of bring about peace. The sea dragon was ravishing this island of Enoshima. And, in some stories, after the marriage, she turned him into a white serpent that acted as her messenger.
Amanda: Love it.
Julia: She is normally depicted playing the Japanese lute. Again, kind of playing to the fact that she's like the patron goddess of musicians and dancers and whatnot. She is also associated with the Indian goddess, Sarasvati, who is the patron goddess of literature and the arts and kind of came to Japan when the practice of Buddhism arrived. She is also portrayed as the goddess of both continuous knowledge and the goddess of reason. So, words language, speech, and eloquence; all of this on top of the fact that she is the goddess of wealth and prosperity. So, I thought she would be kind of the best fit to evoke for this answer. But, yeah, having a plan makes everything easier in terms of saving and getting your financials together.
Amanda: Moiya, I want to make sure you can talk before I just talk forever.
Moiya: No, I just want to hear what you have to say, Amanda. I know nothing about money. I, I'm a grad student. So --
Amanda: So, I, I think the important thing to say right upfront is a lot of people feel a lot of shame about money because it feels like something that we're all supposed to know, or supposed to be better at, or supposed to be more responsible at than we are. But the thing is this is the fucking capitalist conspiracy, guys. It’s that there are literally people and institutions that profit off of making money really hard for the rest of us to understand.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: Credit cards make money on the fact that they make it really hard to know how much money you owe and when. And they make it really easy for you to spend more money than you have. Banks make a lot of money and sort of they fuel the, like, speculative investments of their investment banking side because they make it really hard for you to keep a balance or they Institute policies that mean that you get charged fees for having, like, less than $1,000 in your savings account, which is extremely hard to maintain. But that doesn't even touch investing and saving for retirement and kind of all these things that – you know, especially here in the US, like, in the last 40 years, we have moved from, hey, you know, institution should take care of people and companies, if you work for them for your whole life, should provide some stability and share with you the profits that you help them make into, hey, save for yourself. If you don't do it, good luck. It is all dismal. But, also, I think that should, hopefully, give you a little bit less shame and less self-consciousness when it comes to feeling, like, you maybe don't know what you should know or you should be doing so many things differently to how you are. You shouldn't. Nobody teaches us this. They make it really hard. I think, similarly, having a plan – like, understanding is the kind of first tool and, like, the first step to empowering yourself and being able to make choices. So, reading – like, literally, Google, like, budgeting for beginners. You know, I think that the personal finance subreddit has a really good just kind of like 101, “Hey, I'm making some money. What do I do?” guide. I send it to my teenage cousins all the time because I think it's a really, really good starting place. And just, in general, like, reading about it, making sure that you're not focusing on what you should have known, but, instead, studying it like you would for a test because – look at YouTube videos, like, read people's blogs, people's Instagram stories. Like, you are not like a delinquent, you know, dropout from the School of Life. Like, we are all kind of figuring out how to do this as we go.
Julia: It's not like schools teach us how to budget or anything like that or how to do taxes or anything like that. Like, it is all bullshit. Like, they should be teaching me that instead of – I don't know. I don't really care about biology, but they should be teaching me how to budget and, like, balance my checkbook and stuff. I don't even know what balancing my checkbook means. I literally don't know what that means. I've heard people say it. I've seen people make jokes about it. I don't know what it means.
Moiya: I don't even have a checkbook.
Julia: Someone teach me these things. I don't have a checkbook. I – yeah, we have a joint checkbook that we pay our rent with and that is it.
Moiya: Oh, no, I lied. I do have a checkbook. It's just very old.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: It has Scooby Doo characters. Uh, huh.
Julia: Oh, hell yes.
Moiya: Correct.
Amanda: This is a great example of the fucking conspiracy of finance. Do you know that checks can be literally anything? You can write a check on, like, a piece of paper or a leaf.
Moiya: What?
Julia: What?
Amanda: Yeah, it's just the information in that format. It's like your name, the person's name, the, the money spelled out in letters and then also in numbers, and your signature as well as your checking account number. So, again, like, they make you think that you should buy, like, holographic checks with, like, licensed Disney products on them from your bank and spend $40. No, guys, that's just one example of so many that money is all made up and, and conspiratized, so that we have to pay money to other people to, like, understand it for us. All it is is power. It is resources. It is the ability to take care of yourself, to make choices, to get out of that situation, to, you know, make decisions for a multiplicity of reasons and not just because I need money right now, which is where a lot of people are a lot of the time. So, for you, Lizzie, if you're thinking about, you know, how you make money in your life and how you should make it, I think that the advice I got was, like, you must get a job that pays you enough and that will be stable. And that will, like, set you up for the rest of your life. But the fact is that making money, getting artistic fulfillment, getting just, like, spiritual, like, soul level fulfillment, living somewhere you like, doing things you like during the day, all of these things are different variables that you can play with. You can make money one way and live and be excited and, like, meet people and live your social life another way. And I think that's something that, unless someone tells you, it's not very obvious to think, like, I would be very happy having a day job that pays me okay or, you know, an hourly job that I can fit in in between gigs or whatever it is. And that is totally allowed. You don't have to, like, make everything just harmoniously be a total picture of, like, you know, authenticity and sort of being, like, fully, you know, integrated in all areas of your life.
Julia: Are you saying that my, my baby Yoda checks are a lie then, Amanda? My little checks with baby Yoda on them?
Amanda: You enjoy them, but you didn't need to buy them from that place. I, I found this out when I was, like, 25 and I had worked in finance for four years. And I was like, “How? How did this happen to me?”
Julia: It's buck wild.
Moiya: And, also, now, one of my life goals is to pay rent with a leaf.
Julia: Just on a leaf.
Moiya: That's all I want to do right now. Yeah, just on a leaf.
Julia: I love it.
Moiya: Just send them that check.
Amanda: They probably don't know that they're allowed to cache it. So, that just tells you that, that fucking nobody knows.
Julia: Probably our banks don't even know that they're allowed to cash it. Like, to be quite honest, like, if I just sent that through, like, the little deposit thing, they probably would be like, “What the fuck – why – this is a leaf, ma'am.”
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: Ma'am --
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: -- is a leaf.
Moiya: That teller would be so confused.
Amanda: Lots of people have written lots of just, like, you know, Money 101 or Budgeting 101 Guides. I really liked the app, You Need a Budget, which just as a quick disclaimer, a little heteronormative in, in the onboarding in terms of like, “Am I saving for me and a – and a partner, et cetera?” But the app is really good for me because it's sort of, as you get money in – like, as you get paid or whatever, it has you kind of allocate every dollar. It's like, “Okay. Of the $1,000 I made, I'm going to put, you know, 400 toward rent, and 200 toward groceries, and 100 toward this specific savings goal. And, if I know that, like, next August, you know, I'll need this much money to buy a present for my grandma, I can save a little bit every month.” And it makes it easy to kind of save up for those goals. So, for me, especially having income at, like, different times of the year and not on a predictable schedule, knowing that I am saving a little bit all the time and I can save a little bit toward, like, you know, an expense that I don't know is coming in and, so, I'm just gonna like put $10 in there every month and it'll slowly save up over time is really helpful for me. Don't feel bad. You got this. Spend all the money that you have. And don't do things because you think you should, including buying stocks, or buying checks, or – I don't know – investing in something your company tells you to because, if you don't understand it, you know, don't, don't fuck with it. That's what I say.
Julia: That was great. You really channeled Benzaiten there, Amanda and I appreciate it.
Amanda: Thank you. Thank you. This is the most – this is probably the most I've talked on one of these episodes yet. But it – you know, if you have any questions, tweet me @shessomickey. I will answer them.
Julia: I will say I specifically picked this one because I was like, “Oh, Amanda's gonna have a lot to say about this.”
Moiya: I specifically did not pick this one because I was like, “I, I have nothing else to say.”
Julia: I was like, “I'll just pick a fortune god and then Amanda will give practical advice at the end.”
Amanda: Anything you need, I'm here for you. And, finally, let's end with MonicaJaneW on Instagram. How do I get over someone who's already moved on?
Moiya: Oof.
Julia: Oh, oof.
Moiya: Yeah.
Amanda: That's Monica.
Moiya: It's a good question. This is a – this is a heavy one. But we have an answer for you. Dear MonicaJaneW, too often, when we find ourselves pining after someone who has left, it's not the other person we miss. No. No, we miss who we were when we were with them. Perhaps, you used to be kinder to yourself, or more vulnerable with your emotions, or more generous with your time. S, don't concern yourself with getting over this person. Focus, instead, on figuring out what you miss about yourself. You are free to be your own better half.
Julia: Oh, hell yeah.
Amanda: Hmm.
Moiya: With love, Milda. Milda is the Lithuanian goddess of love and freedom, which is why, you know, she said --
Julia: Good combo.
Moiya: Yeah. You are free to be your other half.
Amanda: Aww.
Moiya: Not much is known about her and scholars actually debate her existence. Some say that she was, like, made up in the 1800s. But, also, gods only have power as long as we believe in them. So, she – like, if we're talking about her, she is real.
Julia: Hell yeah.
Amanda: Agreed.
Moiya: Milda is often depicted naked, which I love, riding in a chariot pulled by doves. I just want Milda’s entire aesthetic. It sounds amazing.
Julia: It's so good.
Amanda: Incredible.
Moiya: She's described as a really nice person who just wants to help people not be lonely.
Julia: How rare is that for a goddess though?
Moiya: Right?
Amanda: I know.
Julia: Let's be honest here. Everyone's so mean in gods and goddesses most of the time.
Moiya: Yeah, we need a nice, loving, free goddess. So, she, she recognizes. She, like, symbolizes and embodies the concept that love and friendship are more important than marriage just for marriage’s sake. People celebrate Milda Festivals in April and May in the Baltic region. And I don't know much else about her, but she seems rad.
Julia: Hell yeah.
Amanda: Agreed.
Julia: Oh, I think this, this really ties in great with our, our first question here too because I think that, again, it's just kind of nice sometimes to surround yourself with people that you love platonically.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: Romance is not the only thing in the world there. And I would much rather, like, be supported by my friends and, like, recognized for the things that are good about me than be, like, with a partner who doesn't appreciate me or brings out the worst in me instead of the best in me.
Amanda: Yeah, I think that's so true. And I love, Moiya, the advice that Milda channeled through you about decentering the other person and focusing on you. And, you know, if you treat it like a, a part time job, or a project, or a commitment that you can't break with yourself, to spend time on nurturing other parts of your life, on doing hobbies that you know bring you joy and fill you up. Those are ways for you to, yeah, just focus on you and focus on your recovery and your healing and on other things that you can put your mind on.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: I think a lot of the time the sort of discourse on getting over people and even the way that phrase is all about, you know, getting over a speed bump. And the speed bump is the thing that's, like, lying there in the way that you have to get around. But, instead, it's, like, you get to fine tune yourself and you get to, you know, go and try reckless, wonderful, weird, new things that bring you joy.
Moiya: I don't know if there's psych research about this. There probably is. And I don't know if t's just like, you know, my insecurity coming out here. But I feel like I'm a much better person when I am loved. Like, when I feel actively loved. And, for a lot of people, myself in the past included, like, I have stayed in relationships or I have, you know, like, grasp at relationships that ended just because I missed being loved. I missed having another person who, like, paid attention to me. And it took me a really long time to realize that that's not the important thing. The important thing is, like, I can recognize the parts of myself that are really great even when they're not being illuminated by someone else's, like, loving gaze.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Absolutely.
Julia: That's such a thing that you have to kind of, like, self-realize.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: And it's very – like, it's very self-actualized in a lot of ways. And it's something that I think a lot of people lack the perspective for. So, maybe this is a good time for this person to look inward and be like, “Okay. Well, when this person was around loving me, what parts of me did they love and how can I start, like, loving and respecting those aspects of myself as well?” I love that.
Moiya: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah, that's so true. You can, you know, laugh more. You can have more companionship activities. You know, watching movies with your friends or doing whatever other things will make you feel, you know, as, as Moiya and as Milda said, more loved, more you, and more vulnerable. So, I hope that you can – you know, don't, don't see it as, like, a side hustle you have to work really hard at. But see it as a, a commitment where you are committing to, you know, every day, complimenting something about yourself or saying something that you're proud of. Or, every morning, you know, a gratitude journal.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: Like, whatever kind of makes you sort of roll your eyes, but think, like, maybe this will be helpful. Maybe give it a try. Maybe, you know, be vulnerable to your friends and say, “I'm feeling a little bit vulnerable. I would love some compliments.” And, and let people give you what you need.
Julia: And just, like, remind yourself that you are worthy of love even if someone stops loving you.
Amanda: Yeah,
Julia: Just because they don't see those aspects worthy of love anymore does not mean that they are not worthy of love.
Amanda: Does the forest disappear when you're not in it?
Julia: No.
Amanda: Does, does the river stop flowing when you look away? No. You're still worth loving.
Moiya: That's great.
Julia: I love it.
Amanda: Well, Julia, Moiya, and all of the gods who helped us out today, thank you so very much for another fantastic Advice from Folklore Episode.
Moiya: Thanks for having me back.
Julia: Of course.
Amanda: Of course.
Julia: We're looking forward to getting to chat on the gods with you again sometime soon.
Moiya: For sure.
Amanda: Yes, we're going to be doing one of these episodes every other month because we love them so much and you love them so much. And all of us could use advice from folklore every now and again. So, you know, listen, everybody, it sounds like, whatever you are struggling with, somebody else is too in this community and in so many others. So, if you feel alone, or uniquely wrong, or incapable know that you super are not and you have a lot in common with the other beautiful, creepy, cool folks in this community and many others.
Julia: We love those conspirators.
Amanda: We do and remember, everybody.
Julia: Stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
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Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil