Episode 218: Creepypasta (with Jenna Stoeber)
/We’re joined by horror and video game connoisseur, Jenna Stoeber, to discuss the Internet’s own version of folklore - Creepypastas. From Candle Cove and Ted the Caver, all the way to the modern day, we chat about the specific ecosystem that allowed them to thrive.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of suicide, eugenics, cults, racism, abduction, sex trafficking, death, chain letters, body horror, disappearances, teeth, and homophobia.
Guest
Jenna Stoeber is a Video Producer at Polygon. She has a Master’s degree in Media and Culture from University of Wisconsin-Madison, specializing in horror media and video game cultures. Follow her on Twitter and on Twitch.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends Netflix’s Lupin. Plus, check out our new partner show, This is Good for You with Nichole Perkins!
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Multitude: Listen to some other MultiShows this week! Search Multitude in your podcast player or go to multitude.productions.
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Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes. To buy merch, hear us on other podcasts, contact us, find our mailing address, or download our press kit, head on over to http://spiritspodcast.com.
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is Episode 218: Creepypasta with Jenna Stoeber.
Julia: I feel like I somehow missed out on the creepypasta phase of the internet. Like, I think I was like on the borders of it, but I never got, like, solely into, like, it's 2:00 AM and I am reading creepypastas on the internet. But I was so glad to talk to Jenna about this because she is so much more of an expert on it than I am.
Amanda: It was fascinating. Jenna has a degree in horror, which I think for movies and media --
Julia: So cool.
Amanda: -- which I just think is the most fantastic thing and was referenced in NextUp by the way. Anybody who listens to the sitcom that Multitude made last year. And she was just a pleasure to talk to. I love her content, her journalism. And it was just a, a pleasure to have her on. So, I hope everybody enjoys it just as much as we did.
Julia: I, I’m sure that they will. I know our listeners. They're gonna love it.
Amanda: And I also know how happy I am when I see the new patron email. So, I wanted to make sure we thank this week; Erika, Lily, Alicia, Sanna, and Miriam who joined our Patreon as well as our supporting producer level patrons; Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Debra, Hannah, Jane, Jen, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Liz, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Polly, Skyla, and SamneyTodd, and those legend level patrons; Audra, Drew, Jack Marie, Ki, Lada, Mark, Morgan, Necroroyalty, Renegade, and Bea Me Up Scotty.
Julia: Yeah. When they look on the internet and they find creepypasta stories, they're able to find the source of those creepypastas.
Amanda: Oh, man, the original source. So good.
Julia: Amanda, speaking of creepy cool stories that we've been reading, or watching, or listening to lately, what have you got?
Amanda: Well, actually, speaking of source material, I just watched my way through Lupin, the new heist miniseries on Netflix, starring the breathtakingly gorgeous Omar Sy. It is really interesting in that, like, I've talked before about how much I love adaptations of media. Like, I love when, you know, they take a book and make it to a really interesting TV show or movie or vice versa. Not doing, like, a one-for-one adaptation but making it into something new. And this definitely fits the bill where the – Lupin as, as you might pronounce it if you are not making a self-conscious gesture at a French accent like I am.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: Those books are real. And, in the fictional universe of the show, they are also real books. And Lupin, the guy, is inspired by Lupin, the character.
Julia: Oooh.
Amanda: And, so, it's as if, you know, the Sherlock Holmes books existed and there's currently a detective that read them and was inspired by them. And he’s, like, putting those lessons into practice. So, I thought it was so much more interesting than a generic kind of, like, modern reboot of some kind of well-known franchise. And it's also an incredibly good heist miniseries. So, Part I is out now. Part II is coming in the summer. I hate that it ended on a cliffhanger, but it was so entertaining that I will say that it is worthwhile and really made me miss, miss, you know, the one time I visited Paris. I want to go back. So, that is my recommendation.
Julia: Now, all I can think about is someone in real life being like, “No, my name is Sherlock Holmes now and I'm gonna solve all the mysteries.
Amanda: Yeah, I know. It's pretty good stuff. Very good.
Julia: Speaking of very good stuff, Amanda, Multitude has been putting out some quality, quality stuff lately.
Amanda: I think so too. It's extremely exciting.
Julia: I would love to talk about the, the newest show that is a, a Multitude production. Can you – can you tell us a little bit about that, Amanda?
Amanda: Yes. So, Multitude has shows that are members of our collective, which everybody knows everything about. But, as we become a real podcasting company, we've also made some partner shows. So, last year, we released My 90s Playlist, all about 90s music. And, this year, I am so excited to say that we have just launched a partner show with Nicole Perkins, who is a writer and poet and co-creator of Thirst Aid Kit, which is genuinely like, if I had to make a list of the 10 most important podcast podcasting --
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: -- it is absolutely one of them. And she is so skilled and so fun to work with. And the show that we made together is called This Is Good For You. And it is Nicole talking to people about the things that bring them pleasure, the things that make them happy and giving everybody else permission to enjoy things in their life too. I'm super proud of it. And you can find it anywhere that your podcasts are listened to by searching This Is Good For You.
Julia: I know there's an embroidery episode coming up soon. And I'm very excited about that personally.
Amanda: Yes, Nicole is known for talking about, you know, sexy topics on the internet and the show covers both sexy and non-sexy stuff that brings you pleasure. So, I am super excited for the, the range that these episodes cover, the interviews of the people that she gets to talk to, and just, you know, partnering with somebody else to help make their vision a reality is a really exciting and kind of new thing. So, I hope that everybody enjoys it.
Julia: I'm sure that they will and I'm sure they're also gonna enjoy this episode.
Amanda: Fantastic. Well, I'll get out of the way. That's a perfect segue.
Julia: Oh, thank you.
Amanda: Everybody enjoy Episode 218: Creepypasta with Jenna Stober.
Julia: Oh, also, in this episode, we make a reference to Adam Ellis' Dear Daniel Series. We meant Dear David. Sometimes, we don't realize we’ve made a mistake until after we listened to the episode. So, we know we got it wrong. Sorry.
Intro Music
Amanda: I am gonna start by just asking you to introduce yourself and then we'll – we'll get right into it.
Jenna: My name is Jenna Stober and I'm a video producer over at polygon.com. And I have a Master's Degree in Media and Culture, which specialized in video game cultures and horror media. Hoooo.
Julia: That is the coolest just thing I've ever heard in my entire life.
Jenna: I hear that a lot. But you know what? I love to hear it. So, thank you.
Julia: Listen, you spent the time and the dedication in getting that degree. You should hear that all the time.
Jenna: Thank you.
Amanda: I did a very small version of that, which is my, my senior thesis in my undergrad degree, which is the one I have. It was going to be on something like historical literature related. And I was like, “You know what? I'm deeply depressed. And all I'm doing is reading memoirs by people who moved out of cities to farms. So, let me just do a little survey of like homesteader literature.” And then that's what I did. And it was great.
Jenna: That rules. That's a great topic for a thesis.
Amanda: It was very exciting. And, yeah, I feel like we're coming back around as we get to the 10-year anniversary of that thesis of, like, more people deciding to move for different reasons and be self-sustaining, which, you know, let's reclaim it from the prepper movement. That sounds great.
Julia: Meanwhile, I did constitutionality of US government involvement in religious affairs.
Jenna: Damn, that's like legit.
Julia: Yeah. And then I just read an article this morning about how Celestial Seasonings tea was founded by a bunch of people who believed in like an alien eugenics Christianity cult. So, that's fun.
Jenna: That is fun, god. Okay. I look forward to reading that.
Julia: Yes, I'll send you the, the article when we're done.
Jenna: That sounds amazing. Is it gonna make me not love Celestial Seasons, though?
Julia: You know what? It's owned by like a major corporation. And the guy involved who believes in eugenics is no longer getting money from them. So, you can still buy it. It's okay. It's just like know that those quotes come from a weird book where they're like, “Adam and Eve were superiorly genetic aliens --
Jenna: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Amanda: What?
Julia: -- who are going to wipe out other races.” And you're like, “Oh, no!”
Jenna: Amazing, god.
Amanda: Well, we're here to talk about not just alien eugenics, and how bad they're bad, and teas that we enjoy, which I'm prone to, to Harney & Sons. Love them. Little local, local faves. But, instead, a part of the internet that I've always liked – I think I, I get the gist. I have like an impression of the meaning. But I think there's so much more there that I don't know. It was your such suggestion, Jenna, and I'm so happy you did. It's creepypasta.
Jenna: Creepypasta.
Amanda: How do you say it? Is there a way to say it?
Jenna: You have to whisper it as though --
Amanda: Okay.
Jenna: -- peaking out from around the corner. Creepypasta.
Julia: The ASMR of it.
Jenna: Yeah, I wanted to talk about creepypasta just because I've been thinking about it recently. About how – so, the phrase creepypasta is derived from the phrase copypasta, which is just an internetism for copy and paste.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: And thinking about back to when everything on the internet was forum based and that was all your social contact was forums or AIM. And, in order to share these sort of stories, you literally just had to copy and paste just giant blocks of text. And that was sort of how these stories were shared. But, like, creepypasta almost doesn't exist anymore because everybody just screenshots.
Julia: Yeah.
Jenna: Because you can just be on your phone and you can just snap a screenshot. And, and I was thinking about this, especially because it's like, if you're on one social media, you're now on all social media because I hop on Twitter --
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: -- and I see screenshots from Reddit and Tumblr and I see Tiktoks that people have uploaded and Instagram posts that are cross posting. And, like, that's true for every social media. So, it's like creepypasta essentially no longer exists as a phenomenon.
Julia: Now, like, is it, in theory, still a phenomenon in – but, now, it's the screen sharing instead of the copying and pasting? Like, is it just like by another name? You know what I mean?
Jenna: Yeah, I think, to a certain extent. But I also think, like, the essential idea behind creepypasta is that it's like an urban legend. So, it's not just like a story. It's a story that is being presented as this thing really happened to me, the person who is posting this. And the person who's posting it is probably not the person who wrote it because, again, it's – it's creepypasta. You copied and pasted it onto some new forum. But there is something unique about creepypasta in that it is – if I were going to say this academically – so, I'm gonna say it academically first. It, it has this this aesthetic of verisimilitude, where it is doing things in the medium to make it feel more real.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: And I feel like we don't even have that anymore because you're just – people just take for granted, I think, that you see something on social media and it's true. I guess, like, fake screenshots are sort of the same thing, but those are so earnest. And they're not like fun urban legends. They're just like, “Here's something that's news, but it's not really news.”
Julia: Yeah, I, I feel like you get a lot of those too with, like, every once in a while, I'll still see people sharing like notes app screenshots being like, “My cousin was almost abducted at a mall in Minnesota.” And you're like – I mean probably not quite honest. Probably not. Maybe don't spread that misinformation about like people tucking white cloth underneath their windshield wiper so that they have to get out of the car and take it off or what have you.
Jenna: Yeah, I mean, like, urban legends still exist.
Julia: Yes.
Jenna: Mhmm. For sure. But I feel like there was just this moment where there was a moment, like, post Blair Witch --
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: -- when creepypasta really first began. And it was very much like a found internet object where it wasn't like I am trying to spread this misinformation. It's just like, “Oh, here's this weird forum post. Maybe people will find it and it'll go viral. And then it'll be the next Slender Man.”
Julia: Yeah, I mean virality was so different back then, right?
Jenna: Yeah. Yeah, it was – I feel like it was less a goal. It's just a thing that happened. It was before we knew that virality was like an internet phenomenon.
Amanda: Yeah, also, all of us weren't in the same place. Like, there was no place where all of the internet was, except perhaps, for a little while, the AOL homepage. But, even that, there were plenty of people who, you know, did not access the internet that way.
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: That's true. That's true.
Amanda: So, tell us a little bit about what – about what makes it creepypasta? Like, are people altering the copy and paste as they paste it? Or is it like, hey, this story ends up being kind of viral because people just repost it without attribution in other places?
Jenna: I mean, I think, both of those are, are sort of under the sub header of creepypasta. Like, when I think about the really, really early creepypasta that, like, baby Jenna on her first AOL account on her dial-up modem was reading, it was stuff like, like Ted the Caver, which is like an angelfire site. That was a like just this --
Amanda: It’s taking me back.
Jenna: -- just this guy who was like – yeah, I know. Angelfire, right?
Julia: Got a little bit of a flashback there. Whoo. Whoo.
Amanda: Geocities, baby.
Julia: Okay.
Jenna: Yeah, that's like pre-Geocities even.
Amanda: It is.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: But it was just like the site of this guy who was like, “Yeah, I was digging in this cave and here's some weird pictures. And I saw some weird phenomenon. And it’s like maybe this is supernatural, but it’s spread far beyond the bounds of just this weird, passive little internet site.” And then you had stuff like The Dionaea House that came after this that was a more, like, purposeful attempt to sort of dig into these. But then I, I think you also have just like – Slender Man is a weird example because Slender Man was a purposeful creation of people wanting to go viral.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Jenna: So, I think that's sort of this weird change in creepypasta, but, yeah, a lot of – a lot of this early stuff was just like a – like, if you think about, like, early chain letters or internet emails --
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: -- but they were creepy.
Julia: Yeah, I mean some of those chain letters were creepy. It's like, oh, you're gonna – like, the Bloody Mary, you're gonna die --
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: -- if you don't send this to 10 people kind of thing --
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: -- for sure.
Jenna: Yeah. Or like the – like, it's really like drawing on the energy of, like, both The Blair Witch but also like The Ring.
Julia: Yeah.
Jenna: Because The Ring was just a chain letter, right?
Julia: Basically. It was a chain video cassette --
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: -- to be quite honest.
Amanda: And what are the features of a story that is like delicious creepypasta fate?
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: You know, this might be kind of a broader conversation about urban legends and sort of internet virality as well, which I'm super here for. But, like, what do you think really grabs at people and makes them want to share it?
Jenna: That's a great question. I, I, I feel like a lot of the – like, a unique thing to creepypasta is how many of them are based on like weird, old nostalgia.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: Hmm.
Jenna: So, a lot of them are like – like, you have, like, Suicide Mouse, which is like an account of a video of a weird Mickey Mouse animation that was supposed to, if you watched it through, it’s supposed to kill you. Again, like, very The Ring vibes.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: But – so, there's a lot of that were like, gosh, there's like about a billion Pokemon game creepypastas.
Amanda: Really?
Jenna: But, again --
Julia: Those are very good, though.
Jenna: They're all so good. I mean I love them. Those are my faves. Or like – or, like, Ocarina of Time. They were written long after those games came out. So, it was the sort of like looking back at these old objects of our youth and being like, “What if they were evil, though?”
Julia: What if evil though?
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: What if a thing that we liked in the past actually evil?
Jessa: Yeah. And, so, I think there's something about that that is just like the nostalgia factor is just such a big part of it. The familiarity just worked.
Julia: Yeah, for sure. I, I would love to kind of talk about – just because this is kind of on my mind, right now – the idea of these stories being created and, like, these people obviously know this is a work of fiction. But then it sort of takes on its own life when people start kind of being like, “No, I saw it on the internet. I don't know where it came from, but it must be a true thing because I saw it there. And they had news articles and sources and stuff like that,” which obviously can be faked because it's the internet. But I, I just like love this idea of it going from something obviously created to be fiction and then becoming something that you're not quite sure it is anymore.
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: I think creepypasta is just this weird combination where it's like, if you see somebody spread creepypasta, it's impossible to know if they are in on it --
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: -- and are aware that this is a fictional piece of internet lore or if they're like, “But maybe this is true. Maybe this is real.”
Amanda: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Julia: Very genuinely.
Jenna: Yeah, I think that's fascinating because it, it doesn't really matter. It spreads one way or the other, whether or not the intentionality behind it is. All of these creepypastas obviously start out as fictional pieces of writing.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: And then they just spread in ways that obscure that even more. So, like, I – one of my favorites is Candle Cove --
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: -- which is this story about – it, it's written as a series of forum posts --
Amanda: Oh, incredible.
Jenna: -- that are just a whole bunch of different people piling on, which already great. I love that. But the idea is that it was this person who was like – do you guys remember that old cartoon show called Candle Cove that was about those puppets that were on, on the sea. And then there was the skin taker who was the villain. And he would take people's skin and knit it into clothes and, like, just really horrifying stuff. And then – and then it ends with somebody being like, “Yeah, I asked my mom about that. And she was like, yeah, you would just sit down at the same time every day and watch the static on the television for 30 minutes.”
Julia: So creepy.
Amanda: Dun-dun-dunn.
Jenna: So, I mean it has like a very classical fictional structure in that it's like there is this opening question, “Hey, what is this thing people piling on?” And then you've got this shocking twist ending that makes it so grabby. Because it was just, like, well written fiction.
Julia: Yeah. And that's such a classic internet thing where someone will be like, “Hey, y'all remember when, like, this was a thing?” and people will agree. And then other people outside of it, like, who aren't in on the joke or aren't in on the fact that, like, this is a story and we're collaboratively telling the story together are all of a sudden, like, “I've never heard of this. Let me Google it. Like, what – what's going on here?” It's fascinating. I love it so much.
Jenna: Me too.
Julia: I love the internet creating myths.
Amanda: It's like there's a continuum between Slender Man and, like, Kazaam Shazam. What does that movie called that people think they remember?
Jenna: Shazam. Yeah.
Amanda: Shazam. Yeah. And, and the creepypasta is like a very large portion of the middle there.
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. It's like that weird – or it’s the self-made Mandela effect, I feel like is a good way to describe it.
Amanda: Exactly.
Jenna: That's a great – yeah, that's brilliant.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: Yeah. And I think – I think too so many of these kind of – not trafficking but, like, make smart use of tropes that we expect, such that it – like, it feels familiar or at least plausible because, you know, we've all heard and grown up on so many stories of like, oh, yes, and, like, didn’t the marionette doll was – its eyes were open, you know. Or, yes, and then she [Inaudible 17:39]. And then, like, she, you know, use the Gameboy and then died. And it's – it just makes it – it makes it – it fits already in sort of context and narratives that we have in our – in our heads. So, we sort of want to believe it. And, for me too, like, finding, you know, posts like that in the early internet – like, the pre-social media internet, it really was, like, you know, they don't want you to know this information about, you know, like, queer sexual health, but here it is. Or, you know, I can't talk about this, you know, my deep, deep love of, like, you know, whatever fandom I was into at the time in people, you know, in my high school. But I can talk about it with people online. And, so, it was more of a sense of, like, uncovering gems and, like, we were all just kind of mining for, like, interesting stuff that was out there that I did presumed to be true most of the time. Whereas, now, the internet is just, like, another location, which devoid of, you know, context, or fact checking, or like, whatever it is. It makes it a very different, I think, kind of environment. They were, like, oh, the environment where very different kind of things thrive than it used to.
Jenna: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, like, screenshots are such a weird big part of that, because it’s, again, super easy to fake a screenshot.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: But people are much more willing to look at a screenshot and say, “Oh, this is real. This is something that's really happening.” Part of why Candle Cove is such an interesting example of that is that the copy and pasted format doesn't work for that because, hypothetically, somebody would have had to go in and, like, strip out a bunch of HTML and, like, do – like, if you look at a Candle Cove – a copy of Candle Cove and as it's written out, like, it's clearly been written. Like, it clearly hasn't been copied and pasted.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: But, like, if, if that existed in modern times, it would be like a Twitter thread that somebody screenshotted and then posted on the internet. And then you couldn't ever find it. And the, the person would be like, “Oh, yeah, they probably deleted it.” But it's like it never existed.
Julia: Or those mile long Tumblr posts where people keep adding on in the replies.
Jenna: Yeah, exactly. And then a screenshot for that would travel – it would be – it started on Tumblr. The screenshot would travel to Twitter and into Reddit. And then it would travel – like, follow – find its way back to Tumblr. And it would just be like nobody would ever source check it.
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Amanda: Yeah. And Tumblr was so good for the origins of those kinds of things because you can change your URL, and then everything breaks, and no one can find you.
Jenna: Yeah.
Amanda: And it is – it is so – like, there have been very smart things written about that mechanic, but there are such a liberating parts of it. And, also, as like a person that loves metadata, like, the reason why I love TikTok is because the metadata is so strong. And it lets you browse in a way that Tumblr never did. But, also, that meant that there were all kinds of, like, of the moment and, you know, my small social, you know, grouping could enjoy Tumblr in a way that others couldn't. Like, I got it when you change your URL or you did it for smart reasons, you know, and about the fandom that you're concentrating in now. So, I'm just – I don’t know. I’m kind of nostalgic for that. At the same time, I realize nostalgia is almost always a trap.
Jenna: I mean what you described, described though would be, like, the perfect topic for a creepypasta.
Amanda: Hmm.
Jenna: Like, I heard this girl disappeared. She changed her Tumblr URL.
Amanda: Absolutely. Or, like, those two people were the same and then both of them changed their URL to the same thing. And it would be very easy to, like, make your blog look like that and – I don't know.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah, that's so cool. Oh, man, the internet's wild, huh? I was also thinking about – because I feel like a lot of creepypastas that I remember also have, like, origins beyond them being written on the internet. Like, I feel like I saw very early on the, the Green Ribbon Story, which --
Jenna: Oh, yeah.
Julia: -- if you are listening and don't know that story, it is about, like, a man who marries a woman. And she always wears this green ribbon around her neck. And she's like, “Hey, listen, we can stay married for as long as you want.”
Amanda: Always a – always great.
Julia: That's a weird thing to say. We can – we can be married. It's gonna be great. I have one request. And it's never try to take off the green ribbon around my neck.
Jenna: And --
Amanda: What an allegory. I love it.
Julia: And they lived, you know, together until she's in her deathbed and she's like, “All right. Now, you can take my ribbon off.” And he does and then her head falls off.
Jenna: Ho-ho-hooo.
Julia: It’s only attached there. Like, I feel like I saw that story on the internet all the time and had no context for, like, where it started. I'm like, “Oh, this could easily have been written on the internet during my lifetime.” But, no, it's like a weird French story from the 1800s that was then popularized by Washington Irving. The internet takes things that existed in the past and, like, retells them in ways that make them seem new and fresh. But, really, they're the same stories over and over again. And I love that. That's one of my favorite things about the internet.
Amanda: We've all read a novel that we didn't realize was based on Pride and Prejudice. I mean come on.
Julia: Everybody has. Or watch a YouTube series that we didn't realize was based on Pride and Prejudice until they started making really elaborate references to it and you're like, “Oh, okay. I got it now.”
Amanda: Yes, Darcy. And they just not exist elsewhere.
Jenna: I mean, yeah, it's – it’s within, like, human nature to tell stories and retail stories that we really like. I mean that's fanfiction. It’s the best stuff. And it’s – it's just like you're – you’re finding this core that you find interesting and, and repeating it. And that's true for spooky stories too. It's why the vampire yet haunts us. I mean the thing that differentiates, like, a story like that from, like, an urban legend is, I think, the medium. And the thing that separates a creepypasta from an urban legend is also the medium. But, like, the point of an urban legend is not that in the 1800s or – I actually recently reread a version of the Green Ribbon story in, I think, a short story collection, I think, called Her Body's – Her Body and Other Parties, I think, it was called.
Julia: Yes.
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: And I was just like, hey, it's the ribbon story. Yay. Classic.
Amanda: By a previous guests, Carmen Maria Machado.
Julia: Yes.
Jenna: Yeah. Yeah, thank you. I'm so glad you had that on hand. I was like, “Should I Google?”
Amanda: No, she’s amazing.
Jenna: But it’s great – it was a great collection. I definitely recommend it if you like spooky stories. But there's a difference between, like, an urban legend, which is a thing that happened to you, or your best friend, or, more likely, your mom's cousin, right? I mean, like, I remember growing up in here – yeah, I'm from the St. Louis area, which is where the original exorcism story took place. And I remember hearing from my best friend's mom that she had been to the room where the exorcism takes – took place.
Amanda: Hell yeah.
Jenna: And, so, it was just like this weird – there's this thing that separates those stories, which is like, “No, this is real.” And there's – there's eyewitness accounts of it. And then creepypasta is just that but on the internet.
Julia: Yeah, for sure. And I mean, like, the internet loves retelling things that already are super creepy.
Midroll Music
Amanda: This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Spirits listeners will get 10 percent off your first month of counseling at betterhelp.com/spirits. Now, Julia, I was talking to my therapist last night.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: Not the fay therapist. My real therapist --
Julia: Okay. Good.
Amanda: -- whose name is also Amanda. And, so, every time we end a call, I get to be like, “Thanks, Amanda.” And she's like, “Thanks, Amanda.” And it makes me cherry.
Julia: Plus, she can't steal your name as a fay because you have the same name
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Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm.
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Amanda: And, now, let's get back to the show. Are there individual creepypastas – is, is that the right noun – creepypasta stories that you particularly love?
Jenna: I mean Candle Cove is one of my favorites just because it's had such a weird life. Because I mean it started off as a text post by, by Chris Straub, who is the author. It spun off so that people were, like, making episodes of it. Like, they would make puppets and do, like, weird marionette --
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: -- or they would fake stills or stuff or they’d do, like, Photoshopping stuff. So, I think it's a really fascinating example because it just – it started off as a very earnest creepypasta and then exploded in all these weird ways. I, I don't know if either of you are #gamers or have played Control.
Amanda: Slightly. I haven't played Control though.
Jenna: Okay. It's superb. So, Control is based on SCP, which is its own quasi creepypasta adjacent sort of thing that we can talk about.
Julia: Yeah.
Jenna: But a thing that happens throughout Control is that you can watch these videos that are, like, real life videos. They are not video game renderings. They are, like, things that have – they actually recorded of marionettes.
Amanda: Hmm.
Jenna: And it's a very – it's clearly, clearly a Candle Cove downstream production. And it's just so interesting that this Control, which has – definitely has some spookiness into it which is not, not necessarily a horror game, has, has this callback to all of these internet rich lores, including Candle Cove. It’s just like who could have expected that, 15 years ago, somebody would have typed up this little series of forum posts and then this is where it travels.
Julia: It's also wild to me that we know the name of the writer for this specific creepypasta.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Because I feel like that's not a common thing when it comes to creepypastas. Like, these people prefer to remain anonymous because that kind of lends credence to their story in a way.
Jenna: Yeah. And I mean a lot – for a lot of creepypasta, it disseminates so thoroughly on the internet. It's very hard as, like, a historian or an archivist to track down the origins. I mean that's another reason why, like, Slender Man is so interesting because it was like a – oh, I think a something awful forum post if I'm remembering correctly, where they were like, “Let's make a viral creepypasta monster.” And, so, they just sat down and they hashed out the lore. And they made a bunch of Photoshop images and just sent it out into the world. So, sometimes, you can look at that. And, sometimes, like Candle Cove, you can say, “Oh, Chris Straub made this.” But a lot of this stuff is just like – some of it might have origins and I just don't know it. But, like, I don't know who made suicidemouse.avi. I don't know who wrote a lot of these stuff. And that's the whole point. We don't know.
Julia: I kind of love that too because, you know, just like the Green Ribbon story, we don't know who wrote that. We know who popularized it, but we don't know, like, the first telling of it and where it came from and who started telling the story in the first place. And I think that is an additional very creepy thing about creepypastas. It’s like --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -- we just don't know. We'll never know probably.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: It's like the meta – what's the fanfiction Harry Potter one with my long black raven hair?
Amanda: My Immortal?
Jenna: Yes.
Julia: My Immortal. We'll never know. We'll never know who it was. People will claim it’s them. But we’ll never know for sure.
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: Yeah.
Amanda: It's – it's so fascinating. And, as we move to a screenshot-based discourse, it also kind of breaks my heart a little bit how much harder it is to source and link those posts. Like, it's much, much harder to find the origin of an image, I think, particularly in a screenshot of text than it is forum post, which, at least, you could, you know, do like a Boolean search on Google and, like, use quotation marks and find the oldest version of it.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: I have to rely on stuff like know your meme to trace the origin of memes. And, even then, it's – it's unclear because the image just gets, you know, redoubled and, like, pixelated so many times.
Jenna: Yeah, it's a nightmare, if I’m honest, as, as an academic and an historian who really believes in, like, hunting down her sources. I mean a lot of my actual work at Polygon is just like reading stuff that people have said on the internet and then double checking it and finding sources.
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: And, if I can't find a source for it, if I can't find a primary source, then it doesn't – it's not real. And I could spend all of my time correcting Wikipedia and, and double – and, like, removing links to things that are – have sources hypothetically, but those source links are dead, or they say something different, or they don't say what they think they say. It's just like it's a nightmare.
Julia: It really is.
Jenna: It’s a nightmare.
Julia: The internet is a, a [Inaudible 32:56 - mirefield].
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: Yeah. And, every, every once in a while, I'm seeing people start to talk about this more, at least, on Twitter about people posting things without sources and people just being like, “That sounds right. And it makes me feel good. So, I'm going to retweet it.”
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah.
Jenna: Or, like, people who have blue checkmarks and are, are hypothetical sources of authority tweeting things and then coming back – and, like, that tweet gets 20,000 retweets and then coming back and being like, “Oh, actually, this was incorrect.” And that one getting 100 retweets. And it's like just no love for fact checking on Twitter.
Julia: Yeah, you're like, “Come on, guys.” Just, like, it's a quick Google search to find out that this is just blatantly untrue.
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: Just a quick one.
Amanda: But, every time, I do see a reply to a tweet that is like, “Here's the source,” I'm just like, “Yes, you did.”
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: Excellent.
Jenna: Yeah, it's just a relief that somebody is checking.
Amanda: It really is.
Jenna: But I, I mean that's kind of what I like about creepypastas. Like, it doesn't matter. It's a fucking – it's like a goofy internet creepy cool story. So, it's like it's – it's fine.
Julia: Yeah, it's okay.
Amanda: There are so few low stakes topics that we can discuss that involves, like, internet analysis or discourse. That is just, like, a few. Like, one of – one of the few that we can just kind of talk about and it's like a fun and creepy hobby.
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: I mean, until it's not, because I mean I feel like --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -- we're gonna get to this point in the conversation anyway. But, like, when the creepypasta gets too big and then mainstream media, like, knows about it like the Momo challenge shit that was happening.
Amanda: Oh, boy. Yeah.
Jenna: I was just thinking about that. I was like I could sense --
Julia: Okay. Okay.
Jenna: -- I could sense it coming up in this conversation.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: It's dark presence watching over us.
Julia: Oh, such a creepy photo.
Jenna: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Just a terrible, terrible photo that I had to see on the internet all the time for, like, three months straight. Oh, boy.
Jenna: Yeah, I mean – I mean that's a really good example of something that I think is, like, creepypasta adjacent because you have this screenshot of this thing that undeniably exists. It is an object and then you remove it from its context. And context is the king. I would love for us as a culture to return to loving context --
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: -- as much as I personally love context.
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: You have this image. You strip it of its context and then you say, “Yeah, some person killed themselves after they looked at it.” It’s spooky. It’s, like, it's very easy. And I think the thing that, I guess, mentally differentiates that from creepypasta, for me, is that there's so, so little effort into making that realistic. Like, a really beautifully crafted Ted the Caver website or a Dionaea House, which is the story about, like, this one house that has many entrances in many states. But, if – anytime you enter, you're entering this one Dionaea House.
Julia: Extremely cool.
Jenna: It's so good. But that was, like, a series of blog posts and emails. Like, very ARG kind of energy.
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: Like, clearly, a lot of craftsmanship went into making this complex story. And you don't – you don't need that anymore.
Julia: Yeah.
Jenna: You don't need eight websites with 20 different characters talking and emails and forum posts to sell a story anymore. You just need a screenshot of a spooky sculpture and somebody saying, “Hey, I heard such and such.”
Julia: I appreciate the effort that goes into the, like, original creepypastas.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Like, people, like, spending actual time to make, like, what is basically an art piece, you know, or like, at least, like a storytelling experience. And then, as opposed to, like, the one screenshot being like, “Oh, yeah, this, this happened. I heard from some teenagers in the Midwest or something to that effect.” I'm reminded of – oh, man, that was like three or four years ago now. The, like illustrator Adam Ellis, who used to work for BuzzFeed doing the Dear Daniel, I think --
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: -- was what it was called. And that went on for months and was, like, very beautifully crafted, like, to the point where, like, people were extremely invested. And then he kind of just ended it with like, “Hey, I got a book deal.” And we're like, “God damn it, dude, stick the landing first. Come on.”
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: But it was like people were invested. And that was good storytelling. And, like, he was making videos and, like, pictures and stuff like that. It was very cool.
Jenna: Yeah, I, I remember absolutely following along with that forever because I – something that I like about ghost stories. I don't believe in anything. I don't believe in ghosts.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: I don't believe in anything supernatural in the least bit. So, when I read ghost stories, what I'm really interested in is, like, do you believe this or are you having us on.
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: And, so, with Adam Ellis, that was really interesting because I was like, “I think you're having us on because you are a creator by trade. This is one of your platforms. So, I think – I think this is – you're having one on us.” And then, as it got – as he started producing more artifacts, I was like, “Okay, Adam.”
Amanda: Mhmm.
Jenna: This is good. But it was still a heck of a lot of fun to see how it sort of spirals out. And that's one of those things where it's like that, again, almost captures the creepypasta energy. But we know Adam Ellis did it.
Julia: Yeah.
Jenna: He was in no way trying to hide what he was doing. And the fact that it ended with a book deal is, again, not surprising. I think there was a certain turning point in Ted the Caver that kind of came with Dionaea House in like the late 2000s where I – they were like, “Actually, we – this is fake and we're trying to get a movie deal.” And I think --
Julia: I get it.
Jenna: -- I think some movies were made. But, now, you, you also have, like, Channel Zero.
Julia: I've not heard of that one.
Jenna: So, it's a – it's from – it's a, a Shutter exclusive TV show --
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: -- that they, they’ve produced called Channel Zero. And, every, every, every season, I think – I haven't watched a ton of it – has – is based on a different creepypasta.
Julia: Oh, fun.
Jenna: So, it's this weird interesting way of, like, cacheing this internet phenomenon into more, more recognized mainstream media.
Julia: Oh. And they did the first installment on Candle Cove. So, that makes sense.
Jenna: Yeah, that's how I know it because I watched the Candle Cove vid. And it’s some good stuff.
Julia: How was it by the way? It was good?
Jenna: Some part – I, I never finished it. I never finished watching it.
Julia: We won't – we won’t tell them. We won't email them this episode being like, “Jenna never heard it. No, never, never finished it.”
Jenna: It add some – it definitely added a bunch of stuff to the, the lore because I mean it had because it was a television series, which is essentially just a different format and a different medium. So, they added a bunch of stuff. I liked the stuff that they added. They added a very creepy tooth monster, which --
Julia: Fun.
Jenna: -- if you Google Channel Zero, it’s probably what you will see. It’s very – it's very good and upsetting.
Julia: Cool. Cool.
Jenna: Yeah.
Amanda: I, I love the example of Dear Daniel here because it was such a good Twitter thread.
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: Yes.
Amanda: You know, like, the, the timestamps. You know, like, the, the timing, the media that was attached, just the kind of thoughts and bursts. Like, you felt as if you were hearing one side of somebody's, like, panicked conversation as they, like, call you in the middle of a – you know, a moment of crisis. And that is something too that I love when I see – like, even if I see a screenshot of, you know, a, a Tumblr, like, exchange like buried in the replies somewhere else, I'm like, “That's a good Tumblr post, you know.” And I really love the kind of, like, platform-specific, you know, styles and quirks that we have. And I, I hope that isn't lost. Like, there is something about a – you know, a Reddit post that is very different to an ask on Tumblr, that is very different to a tweet, or, you know, a story reply on Instagram. And I, you know, as much as – as exhausting as it is, I think, to continue keeping up with new things as they pop up particularly if that wasn't, like, the pace of development of your formative years using the internet, I just love it. And, to me, it's like I'm such a fan of genre. And I don't want to lose the genre, you know, of like – of Tumblr post, of Reddit post, of Instagram post.
Jenna: Yeah, that – gosh, that's such a great point, especially because, yeah, like, with the Dear Daniel thread, it's – you can see it. There's no way to fake that thread on Twitter. Like, you can screenshot it --
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: -- and fake whatever you want elsewhere. But, like, on Twitter, you can just click and it's baked into the – to the interface of seeing, like, the progression of this, the date the timestamps. But, yeah, like you're saying, you don't – Tumblr doesn't really have timestamps or they're not, like, super visible if they do. So --
Julia: They super do not. People retweet news from, like, 2016 all the time.
Amanda: One of my favorite Tumblr conventions is like a, a reblog that then the only comment is like, “This is from 2015 or something.”
Julia: Yeah, love that.
Amanda: You know, like, it's four years later and this is how I feel. And, even if it's not true, sometimes, I don't care. That's great. Like, it's wonderful. On, on Dear Daniel, there are a couple times where, where Adam replied and he was like, “Oh, fuck, like, I dropped the chain before, like, replies were baked into the architecture of Twitter. Like, I'm gonna start again.” And I was like, whether or not you intended that or it was a genuine mistake as you were, like, pasting things from your text file, it feels like Twitter. Like, that makes it feel so true.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: Yeah, there's something so wonderful about that kind of emergent media play that you can hypothetically have on these platforms but that are often so baked into – I don't know. I'm about to make myself sad. They're often so baked into lying.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: And, and not just like --
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: -- that, that's the thing. It’s like, I guess, for me, because I don't believe in any of these stories – like, I don't believe in Jack the Killer or whatever. I don't believe in, in Squidward suicide attempt. Like, so, it's like seeing those, I'm like, “Ah, a fake thing that I can enjoy.”
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah.
Jenna: Whereas so, so much of the equivalent stuff on Twitter or Reddit is just lying. And they might be lying for a joke, but, without context for that – without context to understand that it's a joke or that the person who's creating it is joking, it becomes this weird, horrible thing that just spreads so far and so wide. I don't know. I'm thinking about – do you guys remember – this was a couple years ago. The Millie Bobby Brown, there was a thing – that weird, horrible Twitter rumor that Millie – that she was homophobic. Do you, guys, remember that?
Julia: I don't.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: But that feels like something Twitter would say.
Jenna: Let me – let me preface this by saying it was lies.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: It wasn't – it wasn't true. She's a lovely person. And – but it was this thing where it was this weird in-joke amongst this very small group of people on Twitter, who didn't think anybody was listening or paying attention and forgot that Twitter was a public space.
Julia: Yeah.
Jenna: And that, if you post something, it can go anywhere. And, so, they made all these jokes about how Millie Bob – Bobby Brown was homophobic. Again, she is not. And then people outside of this joke latched on to it and started spreading it. And then she started getting a bunch of backlash for this thing that was nothing.
Julia: Yeah.
Jenna: I think about that a lot in, in terms of how things can escape on social media without us realizing it.
Julia: For sure. Absolutely. That brings me back to the idea of the, “Oh, my cousin almost got abducted at the mall in Minnesota,” thing again.
Amanda: I don't know. That's what they told me. That's what my cousin said.
Julia: And, like, it, it had – just all of a sudden, that one screenshot of someone's Notes app or, like, a, a fake text that they faked from their “cousin” that has, like, 20,000, like, retweets. And, all of a sudden, the Bella Twins on Instagram are talking about how, like, human trafficking is a problem. And you're like – I mean, yeah, it is.
Amanda: Not like that.
Julia: But, like, not because of this Twitter piece that someone posted that's probably fake. It's just it’s a lot. The internet's a lot, huh?
Jenna: It's a mess. It's a mess and I don’t know what to do about it.
Julia: Maybe it was a mistake. Maybe the internet was a mistake.
Amanda: I feel like, in the way that – I think, once you realize your queer, you look back at your, your childhood and you're like, “Ah, yes, everything makes sense now.” I feel that about being a – like, a professional creator and thinking back on my fandom history and how I grew up in fandom. And, like, that was the, the internet. The sort of like, you know, live journal early era, like, pre, pre-Russian acquisition era live journal that I – that I grew up in. There was always knowledge that, like, at – that everything you put out there, you are a creator. And, if you're, you know, like, damaging somebody, if you're like being, you know, rude to somebody else in the comments of their fic, like, people click on your username and they see you. And then that'll impact the way that they view your writing and whatever. Like, you can collaborate with people. Like, you can be their beta reader. Like, there's lots of ways that – I don't know – like, you are a part. Even if you're just kind of a consumer in the community, unless you're a full lurker, like, you're a participant. You are a, a member. And, you know, a – whatever lucky you're not, like, that was my own experience. So, I feel like I never had to come to the realization of like, “Oh, shit, things I put on the inner have consequences.” But I think, if everybody thought of themselves as a creator and, like, the, the ethics that go along with that, we may be in a little bit of a better place. Like, I, I'm hesitant of anybody introducing – I don't know – solutions to internet wide issues. But I do think that, you know, taking – like, everybody has, is a platform – has a platform. Like, everybody is a creator. Like, there – you know, you, you have a perspective, an influence, and, certainly, the ability for people to see what you're doing. And, you know, hang out, go wild in your – you know, your private groups and your group texts and all of that because there is the context of those people know who you are. And I don't know. I just – toward a – toward a creator-centric, you know, like, self-view model, that would be my, my paper title.
Jenna: Yeah, I think what you're saying about live journal is especially interesting because, like, the time at which I was doing live journal fandom bullshit heavily overlaps with the time I was doing – getting into, like, creepypasta.
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: But I never remember reading any creepypasta on live journal.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: And I think it's – it is part of what you're saying as like that it was such a, an early moment of like before – really before Web 2.0 conceptually hardened --
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: -- into everything on the internet is made by somebody. It was this sort of, like, nice place where you were trying to make friends as yourself, the real person that exists in the world, not as this weird internet persona that could potentially get famous or get rich because you're on the internet. So, I, I think live journal, at least, for me – maybe it's just because I was young. It was so much less performative. And it was so much more earnest.
Julia: No, I feel that. Absolutely.
Amanda: And it was a bunch of, like, librarians and professional archivists being like, “Hello, this is the metadata. This is how we are going to introduce all fix. This is where you can read your warnings or descriptions, your categories, your tags. And let's move on with ourselves.” And it's just like it's so beautiful. It's so beautiful.
Julia: I would love to go from kind of conversations of individual creators for creepypastas and talk a little bit – you mentioned before SCP Foundation.
Jenna: Oh, yeah.
Julia: And I think it would be really interesting to talk about that as a collaborative storytelling experience because I know it started off as, like, 4chan thread and stuff like that and then kind of grew into basically an extended universe of, of writing and articles and stuff like that. If you want to talk a little bit more, you are probably more of an expert than I am.
Jenna: I actually didn't know that about where SCP found – was first, first originated at.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: I think I found SCP, like, not too long after it started to become a thing, but a little bit before it really popped off.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: But, for, for anybody who's listening who does not know what SCP is, it stands for – oh, I always forget this – secure, contain, protect, I think.
Julia: I'm gonna double check this. I have the Wikipedia article in front of me.
Jenna: Oh, great.
Julia: Special containment procedures.
Jenna: Oh, okay. I think that – I think the thing I said was their slogan. Anyway, it – what it actually --
Julia: Probably.
Jenna: -- what it actually is is a kind of, like, a Wikipedia setup of this fictional quasi-governmental agency that goes around the world and snatches up unusual paranormal objects, which is the plot of about 20 Sci-Fi original shows I know.
Julia: Just everything.
Jenna: Yeah. But this has been going on since, like, the 2000 – like the late 2000s. So, I think it predates a lot of them. A lot of them skew horror. Some of them are, are jokes. Some of them are just joke entries. And some of them are, are a kind of Sci-Fi fantasy. Well, a lot of them skew horror. So, it, it's a lot of the same energy as a creepy pasta. But it's basically like anybody can write a thing much like a regular Wikipedia. It just anybody can step up and write something. And other people can edit it. Once, once it gets approved, basically, it's a part of this giant, massive collection of, like, short stories.
Julia: Yeah, it's extremely cool. And they do vary from, like, stuff, like, a staircase that never ends. And then another one is a, a toaster that can only be referred to in first person. And you're like, “Oh, okay. Those are very different things. I guess they kind of fall into the same category of being, like, weird happenstances and objects. But you're like, “Oh, okay, someone just was having fun today with the toaster, huh?”
Jenna: Yeah. Yeah. And they interact in weird ways. My, my favorite – this is not an interact one. I just thought of it. My favorite SCP is one of the joke SCPs. And it's one of the, like, top rated ones. So, it's really easy to find if you were looking. But it's just like a – it's just a rock that, like, I think, makes people procrastinate. I'll – I’ll finish this entry later. And that's just --
Amanda: Yeah, very good.
Jenna: It's really – it's just a great punch line. It's like setup punchline, done. It's so good. So, it's just like --
Julia: Awesome.
Jenna: -- they, they vary pretty widely. There's a lot of, like, monsters. And there's, like, weird objects in there that interact with each other. So, like, you'll have entries that'll, like, cross reference other entries and be like, “Yeah, we did a science experiment to see if this thing could kill this other thing and it couldn't. We just made that first thing stronger.” And, so, there’s a lot of stuff like that, which rules.
Julia: Amanda, I think there's one I'm looking at right now that you would appreciate.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: Which is a IKEA retail store that has an infinite interior space with no outer physical bounds --
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: -- causing prospective customers to be trapped after they become lost within the pocket dimensional world.
Amanda: Extremely good. Extremely good.
Jenna: That's really good. There's actually a horror novel based on that.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: I don't know if it’s --
Julia: Oh, really?
Jenna: I'm curious which came first. It's called Horrorstör, but the store is spelt S-T-Ö-R. Hey.
Julia: Incredible.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: Like, really just ripping into IKEA there, huh? Not even trying to hide it.
Jenna: So, there's that one. I think there's also a second. I think this is the – yeah, this is the book I'm thinking of. Anyway, I read it. And I was like, “This was written to be a movie. So, I don't know why you made this book, but that's fine.” I'm so curious which one of these came first and maybe – I mean it's possible they share an author. There's no reason why they couldn't.
Julia: It is. Again, we don't know because we don't know the authors for a lot of these.
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: That's – that's the problem.
Amanda: Horrorstör, the book was 2014. But I do feel like, if there was a book beforehand, people would have been like, “Umm, this internet post is based on a book.” So, maybe it's the other way around.
Jenna: Well, SCP though is – the thing is just like it's – I think it – I think it has very loose copyright.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Jenna: Because you're – you're meant to write. You're meant to build on this.
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: So, I don't think you can, like, use any of them for – because, like, Control – so, Control, the video game that I was talking about earlier – is clearly an SCP-style found date. Like, it's clearly an SCP style government – quasi government organization --
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jenna: -- that is in this just, like, endlessly giant building that some parts of it are outdoors even though they definitely physically can't be that sort of thing.
Julia: Mhmm.
Jenna: But it doesn't actually use any specific SCP items. It's just kind of the concept of SCP is clearly, clearly informed; the writing and, and the objects that you find in this game and the way everything is set up.
Julia: Sure. But, like you said, there's also, like, eight Sci-Fi Channel original shows that are very similar concepts. So, I feel like it's something that people have been iterating on for a while outside of the internet.
Jenna: Yeah, I mean SCP itself is just like downstream of Indiana Jones.
Julia: Yeah.
Jenna: That giant warehouse where you just --
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: -- that's – you have to store all this metaphysical bullshit somewhere. So --
Julia: Which Sci-Fi channel made a TV show based on that as well?
Jenna: Yeah.
Julia: So, you know, it is what it is. Warehouse 13.
Jenna: Yeah. Oh, god.
Amanda: In that one season finale of X-Files where they finally are in the room and then it gets blown up, I think. Spoilers. Spoilers. Spoilers.
Julia: Yeah, classic.
Jenna: I don’t know if you have to spoiler alert X-Files, but I guess it's good that you did.
Amanda: I said it afterwards. So, it's – it's mostly functioning as a joke.
Jenna: But it is just it's – I mean the horror has always built upon – as a genre, has always built upon its predecessors much more significantly and visibly than I think a lot. And, again, that's just because, like, so much of horror is about pretending that the thing you're saying is true in order to lean into the horror. So, like, I mean, like, even Dracula is written as an epistolary. So, it's, like, it's not written as a novel. It's written as a series of letters and newspaper entries. And, if that --
Amanda: Yeah.
Jenna: -- that's exactly what creepypasta is cribbing, but they're just doing different monsters.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: Ah, also, making me want to go back to grad school tracing the lines between Dracula and Frankenstein all the way through to, to SCP. Oh, man. Now, I can just do it in my head or as a Tumblr post that is screenshotted and posted on Reddit and then linked to on Twitter. Jenna, thank you for joining us. Is there anything else about creepypasta or about just stuff you love online that we did not ask you about or that you want to share? This is your platform. This is your moment.
Jenna: Now, I'm glad I got to talk about this. This is something – one of those things where, like, if I continued with my grad studies, I definitely would have written multiple papers on, on SCP because it's – or, on creepypasta, in general, just because it's so fascinating. But I never get to talk about it in my day to day because I'm always doing video game stuff. And, although there's Control, there's just not a lot of connection to the big, beautiful, horrifying World of Internet lies.
Amanda: Well, this is what we are here for. So, please – if folks don't know who you are, please let us know where they can follow you and find your work online.
Jenna: So, you can find me at – on Twitter @theJenna, just one word. You can also find me – I stream on Twitch @the_Jenna. And I stream a lot of, like, I stream art. I stream video games. Oftentimes, I'll stream horror games because I love them and I like to play them. But those are the best places to find me right now.
Julia: Heck yeah. Well, thank you so much, Jenna. This was such a great conversation. I was like, “I'm not sure I'm not gonna have, like, enough to talk about for creepypastas.” And then it wasn’t an issue.
Amanda: There is.
Jenna: And then I talked so much you didn't even have to worry about it.
Julia: No, it was perfect.
Amanda: It was perfect. You're perfect. Well, everybody, we hope you enjoyed and remember.
Julia: Stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
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Outro Music
Amanda: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
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Julia: Thank you so much for listening. Till next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil