Episode 265: Demeter
/The goddess of compost has finally made an appearance on our podcast: Demeter. Strap in, and find out what we mean when we whisper: “An ear of grain, cut in silence”.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of insects, sex, death, strained familial relationships, abduction, cannibalism, animal death, violence, fire/burning, and drug use.
Housekeeping
- MERCH! Get the Mothman Crewneck at spiritspodcast.com/merch!
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno-Garcia.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out Join the Party, a collaborative storytelling and roleplaying podcast co-hosted in part by Julia and Amanda. Search for Join the Party in your podcast app, or go to jointhepartypod.com.
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AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And New Year, new us, new episode structure. We're jumping right into the episode. You'll hear our checking in, our recommendations for books and movies and podcasts to listen to and all of the other stuff we have to say in the middle of the episode in our refill break. So, without further ado, Julia let’s jump into Episode 265: Demeter.
JULIA: Well, Amanda, I'm going to invite you to come on a journey with me, right? So, close your eyes, and I want you to picture yourself in the ancient Greek countryside.
AMANDA: I look great with a toga. Okay.
JULIA: You do. Oh my god absolutely. Love it. There are these rolling hills and mountains. You have these fields of green and gold with the cerulean sea beyond. But in the hills of Greece, you will come across another type of golden field waving in the breeze. And that is a field of wheat and cereals.
AMANDA: I love cereals. Julia, bread is my favorite food.
JULIA: I know bread is so good. I feel bad for people who can't eat gluten. I understand. I have many family members who are gluten intolerant. But man, bread's so good.
AMANDA: Bread's good, cereals are good. I'm in it. I'm here. I'm smelling the breeze.
JULIA: Well, Amanda, these fields of cereals were central to this week's goddess, Demeter. So, for the Greeks, via Edith Hamilton, the first cornfield was the beginning of settled life on Earth. That was the quote from Edith Hamilton. I love that. And just for some context, when we talk about Demeter, who is referred to in the theogony as the corn mother, when we're talking about corn, we're not talking about like corn on the cob, or maze as we understand it, because obviously, Europe in the time of the ancient Greeks didn't know what that type of corn was. So, when they say corn, they're basically referring to cereals and grains in general.
AMANDA: Gotcha.
JULIA: So, if I mentioned corn, not talking about corn on the cob, talking about, like, wheat.
AMANDA: And sounds like classic Europe to apply a word that they know to a species that it is not when they encounter the US.
JULIA: Yep, yep, that feels right. So, I really like Edith Hamilton's reasoning behind why Demeter was the goddess of agriculture rather than a god. So, she says, "The care of the fields belonged to the women and as they plowed and scattered the seed and reaped the harvest, they felt that a woman divinity could best understand and help a woman's work. They could best understand her too, who was worshipped not like other gods by bloody sacrifices men liked, but in every humble act that made the farm fruitful."
AMANDA: Lovely.
JULIA: Isn't that beautiful? I love that.
AMANDA: It is.
JULIA: A lot of times when we think of, I guess, in America, and I think of, like, farming in the, like, Dustbowl and stuff like that in kind of rural America. It's very masculine, but I do love the idea of ancient Greece, the fields belong to women.
AMANDA: I think that's awesome.
JULIA: Also, what I really like is the fact that it was described that while Demeter had, like, actual temples and stuff, any field of grain or threshing floor was considered her temple as well where she might be found at any moment.
AMANDA: Ah, lovely.
JULIA: Isn't that beautiful?
AMANDA: That really is.
JULIA: I like the idea of any home could be made a temple to the goddess.
AMANDA: Absolutely. And I'm sure quite repetitive and kind of a humdrum task of, you know, threshing grain and caring for fields. And once again, walking the many, many, you know, linear feet of wheat that you have to, you know, pick over can be a little bit holy, a little bit meditative.
JULIA: Yeah, absolutely. And as someone who I find a lot of solace in repetitive tasks, because I can kind of just turn my brain off and just do the things and let my hands take care of it. I definitely feel a connection there.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: So, she was also described by the poet as Demeter of the Corn Ripe Yellow Hair, which I think is a really evocative description for her worshipers. I think that's just really beautiful.
AMANDA: What is the end of the woods line? Hair as yellow as gold?
JULIA: A cowl as white as milk, a cape as red as blood, a hair as yellow as corn, slippers as pure as gold. There it is.
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: So, we could use her to make a potion.
AMANDA: Indeed.
JULIA: Also, very important to her divinity, she was the Goddess of Sacred Law, as well as being associated with the cycle of life and death, which we will talk about a lot more later. But we've talked about her role as the mother goddess when we have spoken about her relationship with Persephone in the past. And she, to clarify, is not our understanding of, like, Mother Earth. So, that would be Gaia, who was the personification of the earth in Greek mythology, and also the mother of the Titans.
AMANDA: Which I think makes total sense because agriculture isn't the same as nature. It's a, you know, a human relationship to making land work for us as opposed to, like, The Land, you know, in capital letters.
JULIA: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that is also kind of what begs the difference. Like, when they first kind of introduced Persephone into the mythology. She is more of the, like, cultivation of nature, so like, not agriculture exactly. But also, not just wildly nature. She's kind of the middle ground. Like, we'll talk about this later. But when Persephone was stolen away by Hades, she was tasked with painting all of the flowers in the world, which I think is adorable and beautiful. And I love that so much. So, let's talk about Demeter's names and titles, which has become one of my favorite sections in doing It's All Greek To Me. So, Demeter is also known as Deo which seems to derive from the Cretan word of Dea or the Ionic Zeia, which are various terms for grains, like, spelt, and rye.
AMANDA: Really? I was going to assume that it was something holy, like Dios, you know, meaning God.
JULIA: That I think is more of the Latin origin, if I'm remembering correctly. I might be wrong. I am not a --
AMANDA: Probably right.
JULIA: Entomologist?
AMANDA: Etymologist. Entomologists is Bugs.
JULIA: That is Bugs. Yeah, I was, like, I always confuse those two. One of them is Bugs. I know one of them was Bug.
AMANDA: One has an N in the middle like the word ant. Ent and Ant.
JULIA: That is a great way of remembering it. Thank you.
AMANDA: There you go. I only know Julia because I did once sign up for an etymology class and instead landed in an entomology class.
JULIA: Oh, no. And then the professor who was teaching the etymology class is, like, "Well, now you know." He's like, "This is the first rule of etymology."
AMANDA: Haha, that was the first test?
JULIA: Yeah, you went to the bug class instead. That's very funny. I love that. So, as the goddess of agriculture, she was, as I mentioned before, referred to as the corn mother, but also in Cyprus, she was called Damatrizein or the "grain-harvester," which I really like. In this form, her symbol was the poppy which would often grow among the barley in the field, and she was said to help crops grow full and strong.
AMANDA: Delightful.
JULIA: She was also worshipped as a goddess of the earth beyond the fields. In Arcadia in particular, a version of her prior to the ancient Greek version, showed her as a snake haired woman and gave her power over not only the Earth, but also the underworld, the air, and the water, which was symbolized by her animals: the dove and the dolphin.
AMANDA: I mean, two animals. Okay, my first reaction is, what do those boys have in common? But I kind of get it. They're both, like, noble and beautiful, more so than their, like, relatives.
JULIA: No, I agree. Yeah. A dolphin, like, you see a dolphin in real life and you're like, "I can't believe that's a real animal," you know?
AMANDA: Yeah. You did post on Christmas, by the way, something that someone submitted to the Spirits Instagram at Spirits Podcast. Remember, reindeer are real, narwhals are fake, which I read and-- and chortled and then five minutes later was like, "Wait, that was the opposite." So, you got me. You got me.
JULIA: I mean, reindeers are also real. It's just that they don't fly. We've-- we've covered this on the podcast before.
AMANDA: I know. I know. I know. I know.
JULIA: So, she was also referred to as Anesidora, which means one who sends gifts from the underworld.
AMANDA: Oh, like roots?
JULIA: Like roots. Yeah, like that.
AMANDA: My favorite!
JULIA: The Spartans tied her to the dead and the Athenian sometimes called their dead the Demetrioi, which like kind of links her and death and growth because new life would sprout from the dead body, just as new plants arise from buried seed, which I think is beautiful.
AMANDA: Oh, Julia. My absolute shit.
JULIA: Yeah. And it's also, like, that makes her the goddess of compost. I love that.
AMANDA: I know!
JULIA: She's goddess of compost.
AMANDA: My building just got composting two weeks ago, and it was the most exciting event to happen to me. Maybe not all year, to get engaged is here, but like, at least in the last two months.
JULIA: It's really cool.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: No, I'm so excited. We went to go visit my [8:28] total sidebar. We went to go visit my cousin the other day who lives in Connecticut. And I was like, "Do you guys have recycling?" And they're like, "Yeah." I was like, "Oh, you guys have recycling? We don't have recycling anymore, and I hate it. I want to recycle things so badly."
AMANDA: Bad, bad. Bad, bad, bad.
JULIA: God no, but goddess of compost. I love that.
AMANDA: Love it.
JULIA: The poet Pindar says it best actually in reference to that. He says, "Happy is he who has seen what exists under the earth, because he knows not only the end of life, but also his beginning of what the Gods will give".
AMANDA: I couldn't agree more, Pindar! Yes!
JULIA: Fuck yeah, Pindar! I love that.
AMANDA: I love it.
JULIA: Oh god. It's just-- She's so good. I love-- I love my mom so much. My mom the earth? I love her.
AMANDA: I love my mom Demeter too. I gave a talk recently about, like, making a career in new media and, like, having a career like doing podcasting and stuff. And the quote that I opened with is from the magazine Modern Farmer. And I was like, is this the first time anyone's open a media talk with a quote from Modern Farmer? Maybe I'm the first. And so, the quote is that, "Real farmers grow soil not crops, because in monitoring the health and vitamins and resiliency of your soil, like, that is more than half the battle in growing crops. And that's what, you know, farmers kind of pay attention to in this person's estimation."
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: And I think that is so true. The plant is the result, it is not the act. And I love when people draw attention to that.
JULIA: Yeah, there's so much, like, actual science that goes behind farming. This is gonna be the, "Hey, we love farming section of the podcast." Farmers are great.
AMANDA: Hey, farmers, get in touch. Like, tag us. Show us your pics. You all know how much I love my plant watches, but like, truly making it all happen.
JULIA: You are. Truly. We love farmers on this podcast and I know Demeter loves you guys too. Shout out.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: Here's a couple more of the epithets that I love for Demeter. So, first of all, do you know that Chloe is one of them?
AMANDA: No. Why?
JULIA: It is! It just means green. So it refers --
AMANDA: What?
JULIA: -- to her ability of, like, ever returning fertility.
AMANDA: Oh my god!
JULIA: Chloe.
AMANDA: We really grew up at a time where Chloe was, like, the sort of popular girl name when we were in middle school, I thought.
JULIA: I recently was googling, like, most popular names for Gen Z, folks.
AMANDA: Oh, really?
JULIA: Yes, because I was trying to pick out a good character for our Join the Party spin off.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And I chose Chloe because it was, like, number 16 for Gen Z-ers name.
AMANDA: That's very good.
JULIA: Like, it's wild.
AMANDA: That's very good.
JULIA: I love the name Chloe, actually. I'm a big fan of it. And now Demeter also Chloe. She is also known as Thesmophoros, or the giver of customs or legislator, which is particularly related to a festival that we're going to talk about a little bit later on the show. She's also known as Aganippe, which is the mare who destroys mercifully which is --
AMANDA: Oh!
JULIA: -- incredible. And also, as we know, horses are one of her holy creatures because she was given the first horse by Poseidon.
AMANDA: Sure was.
JULIA: They also translated to Night-Mare but I know that we, like, literally get the phrase nightmare from a Germanic pagan god, but I love it so much. It's so good.
AMANDA: Horse mom!
JULIA: Sometimes they have a lot of scary titles, depending on what god is. This is her only, like, scary title. She's also known as Ioulo which means, like, related to corn, which is great. And also is known as Karpophorus or fruit bearing. And like I mentioned before, she was also the goddess of sacred laws under the title of Thesmia.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Which I love.
AMANDA: I hear any word that sounds like thespian, and I'm like me.
JULIA: Yes, that's me. For a really long time I still got that Thespian Society newsletter. I don't think I get it anymore but...
AMANDA: I really honestly expected more to happen in my life when I was elected president of our Thespian Society. I really-- I was like, "Ah, yes!"
JULIA: This is the moment.
AMANDA: The rest of my life on track. Yes, surely I'm going to go to conferences and-- and meet others. Never did.
JULIA: No, no. Probably because they made it happen just your senior year and there was nothing to do after that.
AMANDA: Yeah, that's true.
JULIA: We've talked about on the show at least one lover and one child of Demeter. We talked about her relationship with Poseidon in our Poseidon episodes and their children, which includes the talking horse.
AMANDA: Sure does.
JULIA: We've also talked about Persephone before but we'll revisit that one a little bit later, but Demeter did take on other lovers and bore other children. So, the first I'll mention is Iasion, who was the son of Electra, a nymph, and Zeus. The two of them actually met at the wedding of Cadmus and Harmonia, and Demeter kind of lured him away from the celebrations and then the two had sex in the field that had just freshly been plowed.
AMANDA: Okay. I mean, listen, if the smell of compost makes her feel at home, then I'm all for it.
JULIA: I was gonna say, you know, people get real-- real sexy at weddings and, you know, want to get it down and Demeter is no exception.
AMANDA: They do. And also, the smell of freshly tilled Earth. There's something to it.
JULIA: There is. There's something to that. When they returned to the party, Zeus, who was a lover of Demeter, saw that Demeter had mud on her back. And in his jealousy, he struck down Iasion with his thunderbolt.
AMANDA: Ah, pissed.
JULIA: Yes, but their union, however, resulted in two twins who are Ploutos and Philomelus. Ploutos became the god of wealth and was the bearer of one of his mother's symbols, which is the Cornucopia or the horn of plenty.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: I love the cornucopia. I, every year, I make one out of breadsticks for Thanksgiving, and it's great.
AMANDA: At some point, I want to make some great British baking as sculpture to do with Cornucopia bread situation.
JULIA: Man, I can just imagine how beautiful that would be. I love that. Meanwhile, his brother Philomelus, was the god of animal husbandry as well as plowing the fields. So, it was said that Ploutos because he was the god of wealth was obviously the wealthier of the two. But he was kind of conceited and he never shared his riches with his twin.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: You got to share with your your siblings. That's, like, rule number one, I think. You would know better than me. I'm an only child.
AMANDA: Especially twins. Twins are going to have some kind of fraught relationship to sharing.
JULIA: Because they have to share everything. I feel bad about them.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: So, never shared his riches, but Philomelus out of necessity, he bought two oxen and he invented the wagon and was able to support himself by basically inventing plowing and cultivating crops.
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: Which I love that. So, his mother, out of admiration for her son's, basically, industriousness placed him in the heavens as the plow man constellation. That's known as Boötes.
AMANDA: That's a pretty great, you know, eternal gift.
JULIA: Imagine your offspring does so well that you're like, "You're gonna be a constellation now, bud. I'm proud of you."
AMANDA: I know!
JULIA: So, another lover, as I mentioned, was her brother Zeus. And there isn't much description of their courtship that I could find in the myths, but the most important aspect of their relationship was the birth of their daughter Persephone. Though, as a side note, and I love, like, little side notes where the poet's disagree with each other, but there is a Orphic fragment of the story of Persephone's conception, which says that Zeus had sex with his mother, Rhea in the form of a snake. And then after that, Rhea gave birth to Persephone. And in that story, Rhea is transformed into the goddess Demeter after giving birth to Persephone.
AMANDA: Fascinating.
JULIA: Yeah, which it's definitely, like, odd in the grand scheme of Greek mythology, but because this is lost, and also an Orphic tradition, which we don't have a lot of, it doesn't usually align with what we consider the Greek canon. It doesn't seem to have been accepted as much by the Greek poets.
AMANDA: Totally. And like, there's so much we can't know, right? Like, people could have been kidding, it could have been a metaphor, it could have been, you know, like, all this as metaphor and allegory for lots of different meanings. So, I don't know, I just-- I think it's fun to really think about people did this for a reason, sort of what were the reasons? Like, it's not ever that we're saying, like, "How stupid?" It's saying, like, why was this? What is the meaning? What is the departure from what was known already? Like, what is the purpose?
JULIA: Yeah, trying to remember if the Orphic traditions are, like, pre-Greek poets, or post Greek poets. And if it's, like, they were just like, "We're gonna put our own spin on this," or, "I heard it different," you know?
AMANDA: You know, people are always in dialogue with what is around them, and what has come before them and what they want and think might happen after. And, you know, I'm sure most of these poets, some of them are probably having grandiose thinking, and like, "They'll be reading me hundreds of years after my death."
JULIA: Mhmm.
AMANDA: Many of them we're probably just fucking around.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: And so, it is so interesting to me to read about. That's why I love, like, historical context so much around these texts, because it's like, did you think that people 2000 years from now would be, you know, reading it and kind of wondering and saying, like, "Was that weird for you? It's a little weird for me. But let's dig into the weirdness. Let's see why."
JULIA: It's like, "Oh, why are Pindar and Homer disagreeing on, like, what Demeter looked like? That's weird."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And it might just be, like, they were feuding. I love the idea of just, like, poets feuding, if they lived within each other's times, or even if it's like, I didn't like the way that that guy 100 years ago wrote this story, so fuck him. I'm gonna write it my own way.
AMANDA: Yeah, no one does this better than rabbis. No one does this better than the Talmud, where it's like, you know, layers, and layers, and layers, and layers of people citing and disagreeing with and feuding with and building on each other. Puts Wikipedia to shame. It's incredible.
JULIA: I love that. I love that so much. So, kind of leaving that, we're going to revisit the story of Persephone and Demeter, but we're going to do that as soon as we get back from our refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it. Julia, welcome to our first-- Is this an extended refill? Is this, like, a second round? Is this a catching up in the bathroom, you know, while your dates are back in the bar, and, like, kind of doing a little debrief. That's what this is.
JULIA: Yeah, this is when you're at a house party and you're refilling your drinks in the kitchen, but you get to talking to someone that you haven't spoken to in a while and you're like, "Oh, my God, tell me what's going on in your life."
AMANDA: You will always find me in the kitchen at a house party. You'll find both of us there, which is why I love going to parties.
JULIA: I usually sit on the counter. Sorry, host.
AMANDA: No, it's great. And then we're eye level. It's perfect. So, Julia, in this refill, we're going to do a few things. We're going to thank our patrons, we're going to give a recommendation of what we are reading, watching, and listening to. We'll tell you what else is going on with Multitude. And then, we'll get into our sponsors. Just to-- just to give you a little layout, folks listening.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. So you guys know what to look for.
AMANDA: And this is our first episode of 2022. This is our seventh year of podcasting, Julia. 2022 is year seven of the show, we're about to hit our 6th anniversary, and this is going to be year seven of the show. So, we would not be doing this as our jobs; this would not be our career; we could not afford to put, you know, time and research and effort into making the show as good as possible for you if not for our patrons. And so, that is why we thank them every dang week. That is why you can go to patreon.com/spiritspodcast to sign up for as little as $1 per episode and make your little bit of money each month support us. It adds up, it really does.
JULIA: It really, really does. And we get to do exciting things. Like make you recipe cards for every episode. If you sign up now, you're going to get definitely over 500 at this point because we provide both cocktail and mocktail recipes for every single episode.
AMANDA: We sure do. We did appetizers as well. We did recipes at the beginning and now we do all kinds of, like, outtakes and bloopers. There is six years of stuff for you to enjoy in the Patreon and by becoming a member, you get access to the entire back catalogue. So, thank you very much to Toph Beifong, I recognize that name, and Ambiquafflua who became patrons recently. As well as those clutch Supporting-producer level patrons: Uhleeseeuh, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Kneazlekins, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi. And our Legend-level patrons: Audra, Bex, Clara, Drew, Jaybaybay, Lexus, Mary, Morgan, Mother of Vikings, Sarah, Taylor, & Bea Me Up Scotty.
JULIA: And you can get all that by going to patreon.com/spiritspodcast where you can get those recipe cards. You can get bonus Urban Legends episodes every month. You can get a bunch of audio extras. It's just-- there's a lot there. And trust me when I say it is worth every penny that you can send our way.
AMANDA: Next Jules, I want to ask you what you have been reading, watching, or listening to?
JULIA: Amanda, I haven't been sleeping well, because I have been reading an incredible book that one, is giving me just, like, great messed up dreams, like, in the best possible way.
AMANDA: Ooh, yeah.
JULIA: And also, it's just very hard to put down before I go to bed every night, so I end up staying up way late to try to finish more and more chapters. And that is Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno-Garcia. And oh my god, Amanda, so good.
AMANDA: So good. Nothing like it.
JULIA: I found, like, a new love and appreciation for Gothic literature as a whole. And this just, like, scratched so many of my, like, special interest points that I was like, "Oh, I need to read this book three more times, please."
AMANDA: I've seen it recommended almost everywhere I go on the internet, and it deserves to be. It's such a good book and you can find a link to buy that from independent bookstore online or near you at spiritspodcast.com/books.
JULIA: Books!
AMANDA: And also, every single week we're going to let you know what's going on with Multitude, the podcast collective that Spirits is a founding member of that I run all day long for my job. And this week, we would like to remind you that Julia and I are on another show here in the Multitude collective. If you're into passionate people creating shows you can count on, Hey, don't stop at Spirits, listen to Join the Party. This is an actual play D&D podcast with tangible worlds, genre pushing storytelling, and collaborators who make each other laugh each week, two of whom are me and Julia.
JULIA: It's true.
AMANDA: We welcome everyone to the table on Join the Party from longtime players to people who have never touched a role playing game before. So, if you're like, "I like Amanda and Julia, so I'm listening to their voices. I want more of that," then hey, listen to Join the Party.
JULIA: Yeah, you can start with Campaign I, which is a dose of classic high fantasy gameplay. Or if you're not into dungeons or dragons, you can start with Campaign II, which has d&d mechanics in a modern superhero-centric setting. It's a lot of fun.
AMANDA: So, listen, what are you waiting for? Pull up a chair and join the party. Search for Join the Party in your podcast app or go to jointheparty.pod.com.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: And now, Julia, to thank the sponsors that also helped make the show possible. First, we have a sponsor, Julia, who's kickstarter I backed more than 10 years ago.
JULIA: Wow.
AMANDA: This is Betabrand. They make comfortable yoga pants that look like dress pants. They have been on the athleisure, like, comfort style game a much longer than folks who are newer and getting into it now and be like, "Hey, I just realized that clothes are uncomfortable." Betabrand is making comfortable clothes for a long, long time. I have their dress pant yoga pants and I love them. They have inclusive sizing, they are long enough for me, they have pockets, they have yoga denim as well. It is so, so good. And they're all so comfortable. So, whether you're going to the office, working from home, or running errands, you are going to look chic and feel comfy. So, right now, you can get 30% off your Betabrand order when you go to betabrand.com/spirits. Thats B E T A B R A N D.com/spirits for 30% off your order for a limited time. Make sure to use that URL because it supports our show and lets them know where you heard about Betabrand from. Find out why people are buying five different pairs of these pants. Go to betabrand.com/spirits today for 30% off.
JULIA: Amanda single use plastic is, like, a thing that we've been talking about since 2000, right?
AMANDA: Scourge of the earth!
JULIA: You're like, "Oh, god terrible," but it is 2022 now which means it is way past time to make cleaning fun, beautiful, and plastic free. I actually enjoy cleaning now which is wild to me because I started using my Blueland cleaner and it is simple and beautiful. And like, just-- you buy a bottle once, you refill it forever. There's no more plastic waste, there's no more, like, trying to figure out where to put the recycling of the plastic bottle that you were using. You just need to discard, instead of the plastic bottle, your outdated idea of what eco-friendly products are. And it means that they're less expensive and more effective with Blueland. So, Blueland has these stunning high quality forever bottles that start at just $10 when you buy a kit. And they're meant to be used forever with these money saving refillable tablets that just start at $2. And they come in incredible scents. Like Iris Agave, which smells incredible or Lavender Eucalyptus, which seems very up your alley, Amanda.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
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AMANDA: And finally, we are sponsored by BetterHelp online therapy. We talked about BetterHelp a lot on the show. And this month, we are discussing some of the stigmas around mental health that people run into. I know that before I went to therapy for the first time, it felt like something that I didn't yet merit. Like, if things weren't bad enough or it wasn't extreme enough or, you know, why would I go to therapy if I am getting good grades or making it to work. And I really wish that someone had told me earlier that therapy can be a tool to use before things get bad. It can help you avoid those lows. It is a thing that you can use to maintain and not just kind of, like, rescue your life when things get bad, but to keep things stable and even hopefully looking up. I use BetterHelp every single week to talk to my therapist whose name is also Amanda. And I love the flexibility that we can use text phone or video therapy. BetterHelp is customized online therapy that offers phone, video, and even live chat sessions with your therapist, so you don't have to see anybody on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy and you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. So, give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp online therapy. Once more, this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Spirits listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/spirits. That's b e t t e r h e l p.com/spirits. We did it Julia. Our first mega refill. Can't wait to hear more about Demeter. So, now, let's get back to the show.
JULIA: So, Amanda it was great talking to you in the kitchen, but I was trying to think of what the cocktail for Demeter should be this week, right? I figured, you know, let's make a cocktail that's really earthy, you know? Something herbal with bitters. That's usually my go to, but then I was thinking a little bit more about it. And honestly, I think Demeter would be more of a whiskey woman.
AMANDA: Really?
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Because of grain?
JULIA: Yeah, like she's the goddess of agriculture and cereals and grains. She'd probably like something like a rye. She probably liked Sazerac, or maybe a Manhattan, so I found this cocktail that Jake loved when I made it for him, and it's called the Trinidad Sour. So, it is rye, whiskey, bitters, naturally, and a bit of lemon juice. And then, these really great almond-y notes that come from [26:24] syrup. If you've ever had, like, tiki drinks, usually they kind of add some [26:29] that, like, adds a sort of nuttiness, and that was kind of what I was looking for. For kind of a toasted Demeter-inspired drink.
AMANDA: I love the idea of her, like, on the threshing floor, like, in the building where the grain is stored. Like, hanging out between silos and having, like, a little, you know, a little cask of whiskey that she's aging.
JULIA: Oh man, I love that so much. Now, I'm trying to decide if I had to assign a type of alcohol to each of the gods what would it be?
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: And, like, Demeter absolutely like whiskey. 100%, right? Throw at me some alcohol ideas and I will throw back at you the first god that comes to my head.
AMANDA: Okay, gin?
JULIA: Athena.
AMANDA: Okay. I love it. How about vodka?
JULIA: I feel like that's either a Hera or an Artemis. I think I'm leaning more towards Hera.
AMANDA: I like that. How about tequila?
JULIA: Tequila is a party drink. I'm going to go with Dionysus.
AMANDA: That sounds like, and makes sense. How about Brandy?
JULIA: Brandy. Oh, that's, like-- I feel like brandy's, like, fancy ass motherfucker. And I feel like that's what Zeus drinks when he's sitting on Olympus.
AMANDA: Yeah, I can see his little decanter next to him and like a brandy boy. How about rum?
JULIA: Rum. Poseidon, 100%.
AMANDA: Okay, makes total sense. What liquors are there?
JULIA: I know, right? It's hard to think of liquors.
AMANDA: Whiskey, rum, gin, tequila vodka. I think those are the– the most prominent one.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah, I didn't take too long to give those so they're pretty-- pretty solid in my head, I feel like.
AMANDA: Hey, everybody. Pause the show right now and text a friend quick lightning round what Greek god, you know, personifies these liquors and see what you get.
JULIA: Yeah, and let us know the results because now I'm curious.
AMANDA: And let a friend know about Spirits Podcast.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Come on.
JULIA: A good way of letting a friend know about the show. So, with these Trinidad Sours in our hands, Amanda, to keep us warm, let's revisit the story of Persephone and Hades. I feel like the last time we talked about the story in-depth, we focused very much on Persephone and Hades, rather than, like, what Demeter was going through when her daughter was stolen away by the god of the underworld.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So, before the abduction, Persephone was known as Koree, or "the maiden" and she lived with Demeter on the surface of the Earth. The two of them were actually often worshipped together. Again, it's something we'll talk about a little bit later. But sometimes they were just referred to as the goddesses and called the older and the younger in order to distinguish.
AMANDA: Mmh.
JULIA: Which is very cute, but also, like, kind of difficult if you don't have the best relationship with your mother. I'm like, "I don't want to just be the younger version of you."
AMANDA: I was just gonna think, like, we are two 29-year-old women and I can think of nothing more fraught than referring to any woman I know as the younger, or any mom I know as the older. Like, it's not just an age thing either. It's like, this is, you know, a time in my life where I'm thinking a lot about differentiation from my parents and what it means to be a human unit in the world. And, you know, wow, yikes.
JULIA: Yeah, no. Luckily, I think Persephone and Demeter probably had a better relationship with each other and so, probably didn't have a problem with being referred to as the older the younger.
AMANDA: I mean, also, let's think about the origin of these gods. What a, like, metaphorically rich thing to have, right? It's like a mother-daughter goddess pair.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly. And when you think about the fact that they're often shown as a triple goddess, where, like, Koree's the maiden, Demeter is the mother, and then you have Hecate as the, like, crone aspect, that also kind of plays very heavily into this. So, when Persephone was taken, it was because her father Zeus had given Hades permission, but obviously, you know, obviously, don't tell the mother of your daughter about that. Just let her think, "Oh, my child has been taken and I don't know where she is."
AMANDA: Yeah, just, like, even Zeus should know that.
JULIA: Yeah, you would think but he was probably like, "Oh no, she'll just get mad so I'm not gonna tell her." You can't-- you can't do that, bud. You just can't. Poor Demeter wanders the earth, never tiring, and is so preoccupied with her grief that the seasons halt. Living things cease to grow and all living things begin to slowly die.
AMANDA: And like, I know we've touched on it before but man, what a-- what a metaphor for grief.
JULIA: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, bud. It sure is. I was gonna say, luckily, Zeus can foresee things happening. But no, he does realize pretty quickly that this is going to threaten all life on Earth.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: So, he sends Hermes who is the emissary between the underworld and the gods to go fetch Persephone and bring her home. However, as we know, while Persephone was in the underworld, she had eaten a few pomegranate seeds, which bound her to the underworld for a certain amount of months every year. Interestingly, this time, reading through a few of the different sources, not all of them say that this period of time is Fall and Winter, but rather, it might have been a reference to the dry Mediterranean summer where plant life goes through a drought instead of, like, the bleak desolation of winter.
AMANDA: And I understand why that would be a little more alarming to Zeus than this happening during Fall and Winter, which, you know, more expected.
JULIA: Yeah, but I just really like the idea of seeing a different period than we normally see. Like, for those of you have played the Hades video game, Demeter is symbolized by a lot of frost powers, which I think is really fun and really interesting, but the idea of, like, drought and that kind of, like, dead grass in the middle of summer heat --
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: -- also is extremely intense and I love that a lot.
AMANDA: I love that too.
JULIA: Another super interesting thing that I found upon revisiting this myth was that Demeter would in some versions actually descend into the underworld herself to fetch Persephone and bring her back to the surface. Both the original time and every time since then, which I think is extremely important when we're going to look at some of the stuff later with Demeter, this journey to go get her daughter is a huge part of the Eleusinian mysteries, which again, we're going to talk about a little bit, but the return of Persephone to Demeter is also tied to the harvest obviously. So, it was said that at the beginning of Autumn when the old crop was laid on the field to act as fertilizer for the new crop, that was Persephone returning back to Demeter. And that was, like, basically the old crop meeting the new crop.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: Isn't that so great? I love that so, so much. It's just beautiful imagery. And again, coming back to Demeter, the compost goddess, which I am in love with.
AMANDA: Oh, man, I want to, like, go sniff some compost right now.
JULIA: I know, right? Like, I just want to, like, lay in some hay or something like that.
AMANDA: I know.
JULIA: I'm sorry, I was just thinking about a thing that I learned recently, which obviously, I'm not a farmer and I didn't grow up on farms. I didn't realize that hay has to cure and when it does so, it goes through, like, a thermodynamic process. So, it actually, like, heats up so you have to be really careful when you're curing hay because it could, like, catch on fire. Wild to me.
AMANDA: No, it is powerful shit.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. Hey, hay, it's powerful shit. Stories of Persephone weren't the only ones that Demeter was featured in. Like, I don't want people to think like, "Oh yeah, Demeter, she kind of one note, just only cares about her daughter." That's not it. Like all of the gods, Demeter was prone to exacting revenge on those who wronged her.
AMANDA: Fuck yeah dude.
JULIA: Not as much as everyone else but, like, a decent amount. So, one of these tales involved the King of Thessaly, whose name was Erysichthon, so he ordered all of the trees in one of Demeter's groves to be cut down. I don't remember why. He just decided that was the thing he wants to do one day.
AMANDA: You know, I was gonna ask and then I was like, "I'm not gonna know. People just do that all the time."
JULIA: Yeah. Unfortunately, one of the trees in that grove actually held the, like, votives and prayers that Demeter had granted to the people of that city.
AMANDA: Come on.
JULIA: Luckily, the workers knew better than to cut that tree down in particular. And in his frustration, the King took up the axe himself and struck the tree. In doing so, he killed the dryad who inhabited that tree and with her dying breath she called to Demeter to curse the King.
AMANDA: I know that this is completely historically inaccurate but I just want to say that King hates the unions. Like, that's hating unions energy.
JULIA: Yeah, here's a real scab there.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Do you want to guess what Demeter cursed the king with?
AMANDA: Just, like, infertility maybe?
JULIA: Hmm, that would be a good one and it would, like, align with her whole thing. That's not it though. She instead called upon the spirit of unrelenting hunger whose name is Limos. And Limos entered the king's stomach, so that the king no matter how much he ate only grew hungrier and hungrier. And sold all of his possessions to try to buy more food.
AMANDA: Oh my.
JULIA: So, he lost all of his belongings, he lost all of his loved ones, and unable to satiate his own hunger ends up eating himself.
AMANDA: Damn!
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: That's hardcore!
JULIA: Yeah, he deserved it.
AMANDA: I feel like Demeter is a – real – doesn't yell a lot, but when she does, it's, like, she means it. Or doesn't get angry that often, but when she does, she really means it, and I respect that.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah, she's hardcore. She's hardcore, but in the best way.
AMANDA: She doesn't curse people often, but when she does, it's horrifying.
JULIA: Exactly. So, another story of Demeter's revenge happened when she was searching for Persephone after she had been taken because she wandered the earth and got up to a bunch of shit. So, at one point, she arrived in the land of Attika, just fully exhausted because she'd been traveling for so long. And she asked a woman named Misme for a drink. So, Misme offered her barley water, which is similar to a story that we'll talk about later and also important to the worship of Demeter.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And so, Demeter in the heat of the day, and in her thirst, kind of like drank the water, very clumsily spilling it on herself as she was trying to gulp it down. And the woman's son, who was also there at the time, his name was Ascalabus, he laughed at her in that moment and mocked her in real, like, you know, when people, like, you spill a little something on yourself, and they're like, "Haha, first day drinking" and you're like, "Go fuck yourself, my guy."
AMANDA: If anyone said that to me, I would-- I would give them a withering stare and say, "What a strange thing to say to a stranger."
JULIA: No one ever did that to you as a child. I feel like --
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: -- that was, like, a joke that people would make all the time like, "First day drinking?" You're like, "No, motherfucker."
AMANDA: No, I would just like pun--, like, get ashamed and punish myself.
JULIA: Wrong. No. Bad. So, Demeter, much like you did not take that shit, and so she stood. She poured the remaining drink over him and turned him into a gecko.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And it was said that Demeter favors those who killed geckos because they remind her of that man's mockery.
AMANDA: Okay, but geckos are super cute.
JULIA: Yes, apparently the Greeks didn't like geckos. I don't know why, but --
AMANDA: Fascinating.
JULIA: -- Greeks; not a fan of geckos. The final tale of revenge that I'll tell you is the story of Minthe who was said to be the mistress of Hades before he took Persephone to be his bride. So, Minthe would often brag even though she was no longer a mistress of the lord of the underworld, that she was more beautiful than the new queen and that it wouldn't be long before Hades took her back.
AMANDA: Deeply, deeply understandable behavior.
JULIA: Yes, obviously. Totally fine. So, Demeter upon hearing this and loving her daughter a whole lot, trampled the nymph to death.
AMANDA: Oh. Okay.
JULIA: And from the earth a sweet smelling herb grew. And that is where mint came from.
AMANDA: Oh no.
JULIA: So, next time you have mint in a cocktail or in, like, a recipe or something be like huh, this is a dead nymph.
AMANDA: You know, the one thing I have never been able to keep alive is mint. Actually, I have a very tough time growing it. It-- it doesn't grow well indoors. And at least the plants I get here in the city will often have fruit flies that infect my other plants. So, that's the one thing that I've, like, outlawed from my home and makes sense.
JULIA: Mint is also, like, very invasive. Like, it'll run wild if you plant it outdoors and will take over all your other plants if you're not careful about it so...
AMANDA: Yeah, like jealousy?
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: I'm with you here. We'll do it. We'll take it.
AMANDA: Green-eyed minty, Chloe.
JULIA: Oh, minty Chloe is very funny. Okay, so Demeter, not only vengeful though. She's not like some of those other gods where it's like, all the stories are about revenge. There were many times where she gave her favors as well. So, in her wanderings, for instance, she came across a town known as Pheneos. The people of the town welcomed her warmly despite not knowing that she was a goddess and they offered her all sorts of grains like, you know, rye and spelt and all that. Except for beans, which they said were too impure to give to a guest.
AMANDA: Oh, okay.
JULIA: So, when she revealed who she was, two of the townspeople built a temple for her. Being like, "Oh my god, we were blessed by the goddess," and in her thanks she gifted them the fig tree.
AMANDA: Yay.
JULIA: It was a good gift. I like that.
AMANDA: That's a great gift. I have two. I love fig trees.
JULIA: Do your fig trees actually, like, flower and fruit?
AMANDA: They're not mature enough. No.
JULIA: Recently, we were looking at houses and one of the houses had, like, a huge fig tree in the backyard that, like, we went to go see it towards, like, the middle of fall. So, it was, like, just fruiting and a lot of the fruits were, like, there I'm like, I can't just eat figs off of these peoples fig tree even though they don't live here anymore. But it was very tempting. I was like, "This is also how I get stolen by the Fae or have to spend --
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: -- time in the underworld, so we won't do that.
AMANDA: I know. Part of me is saying, "Do it," and then part of me is like, "Don't eat the fairy fruit Julia."
JULIA: It's for the best. For the best that I didn't need those. So, a great gift of a fig tree. But there was also Triptolemus who was the son of the kKing of Eleusis. So, he was actually nursed by Demeter after she saw that, as an infant, that he was sick and he immediately just regained his strength and in the blink of an eye also became an adult. Like, a fully grown man.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Yeah. Which I guess, you know, the-- the breast milk of a goddess, that'll do it.
AMANDA: It's a real reverse Benjamin Button situation, as we call it here, aka aging.
JULIA: Aging, but fast.
AMANDA: But fast.
JULIA: S,o she chose the man to teach the art of agriculture to the rest of the world. And from him, the rest of Greece was said to learn how to plant and reap crops. So, Demeter also gave him her serpent drawn chariot, which fucking serpent drawn carriage; I love that. So cool. Chariot, awesome. And so, she asked him to scatter her sacred seeds across the earth, which is very cool.
AMANDA: That's a much better idea than the Johnny Appleseed myth. I'm trying to think of the logistics of a serpent drawn carriage, but I kind of don't care. Like, I love those little ground dwellers. Like, that makes total sense.
JULIA: I feel like it's almost like a Eastern dragon kind of situation where they just, like, wiggle and fly through the air.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. No, I was also picturing them flying through air. I don't know why, or how but I'm into it.
JULIA: No. I just feel like if it's a chariot of the gods, it probably flies.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: So, unfortunately, while he was basically spreading the sacred seed of Demeter across the world, he landed to rest in the kingdom of a man named Lynkos. And the king there found out what his, like, mission was and was like, "All right, cool." And so, he waited for him to fall asleep. And then he attacked him because he wanted to get credit for teaching everyone agriculture.
AMANDA: No. Come on.
JULIA: However, Demeter saw what was happening and she had been looking over Triptolemus and in the last moment, she turned Lynkos into a Lynx and then returned Triptolemus home.
AMANDA: Not a bad outcome, considering all that happened.
JULIA: Yeah. And I mean, lynxes are cool. I like a lynx.
AMANDA: They are very cool. I love those big old paws. Those big old tails.
JULIA: Yeah, they're cute. I like them. They like little, little furry boys.
AMANDA: Yeah, they're all out of proportion, and I find that adorable.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly, right? Like, when proportions are weird you're like, it's either creepy or adorable. And it could go either way.
AMANDA: Yeah, they have real kitten proportions, which I find so cute.
JULIA: So, Amanda, let's talk about festivals, which is slowly has also become one of my favorite parts of these episodes. So, before Demeter found where Persephone had been taken, and she had traveled the earth to search for her, like I mentioned, while she was searching in disguise, so that, like, no mortal would know her, she came across the palace of the King of Eleusis. So, in this city, she took the appearance of an elderly woman and she sat by the city well.
AMANDA: Love it.
JULIA: If you want, like, a hot gossip, the well is, like, the water cooler of the Greek world.
AMANDA: I love the disguised as an old person waiting by the well. It's my favorite trick.
JULIA: Classic. Classic. So, while she was there, she was approached by four young women who asked her what she was doing there. She told them this buckwild story about how she had been fleeing from pirates and that she had escaped but now she found herself in the city where she knew no one, which I was just like, that's a buck wild why. Demeter what?
AMANDA: I mean, is there anything more fun than lying to a stranger though? Like, I totally get it.
JULIA: Yeah, no, you're right. Lying to strangers is fun. So, the young women hear the story. They're very, like, impressed, but also feel bad for her. And so, they return to their mother and they tell her the story and the woman invites Demeter into her home. When she enters the home, she begins to kind of bring with her this divine light and the matron of the home quickly is like, "Something is up with this lady. Here's my best wine. Do you want some?" And Demeter tells her, "No," she doesn't want the wine. And so, instead, she offers her a cup of barley water.
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: Again, the barley water, which is a sacred drink that would be given to worshipers in the city of Eleusis. So, this refreshed Demeter, and she blessed the woman's youngest child, her son, with immortal youth, which is great. However, this required her to anoint the child with ambrosia and then lay him in the hot flames of a hearth so that his mortality would be burned away.
AMANDA: Oh, my.
JULIA: So, when the mother saw that this is what this old woman was doing to her child, she screamed.
AMANDA: Uh-huh.
JULIA: Because that's what you would do normally. That's not a wild thing.
AMANDA: No, so would I.
JULIA: And also, because Demeter didn't tell her what she was doing. She wasn't like, "I'm going to make your child immortal." She was just like, "Here, ambrosia. Throw the child to the fire."
AMANDA: Like a RomCom Julia, a quick check in would solve almost all plot problems here. And therefore, it never happens in Greek myth.
JULIA: Exactly. So, Demeter is angered that this mortal thought that she would, like, even think about harming a child. And so, she cast him out of the hearth, which didn't complete the ritual. So, this kid; not immortal forever, or anything like that.
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: She then showed herself in her full divinity. "Beauty breathed about her and a lovely fragrance. Light shone from her so that the great house was filled with brightness," which is --
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: -- beautiful. I love the idea. It's like, I show my divinity and also it smells real nice in here all of a sudden. And so, Demeter demanded that the woman build a great temple for her near the town in order to win back her favor.
AMANDA: I mean, it's a hell of a thing to happen when your kids are just, like, in town and go to the well and you're like, "What are you doing here, Lady?" And then, fast forward six months, and you're suddenly building a temple for a goddess who visited you and without your permission, tried to make your son a god.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah, pretty much. It's a bit of a wild turn of events.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So, the woman went to the king and told him what the goddess had demanded. And the temple was built willingly. Like, the king was like, "Yes. All right, excellent. We should build a temple for this goddess. I 100% agree."
AMANDA: I have to say, all these mortals are making the right decision here, Jules.
JULIA: Yes, yes, exactly. So, when it was completed, Demeter came to it as her throne away from the other Olympians. Like, not on Olympus. And it was the place that she could come to in her grief at her missing daughter, which I think is really beautiful. Like, a way of, like, getting away from everyone else and just being able to sit in your own grief and feel your own feelings.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: So, it was out of this temple that the Eleusinian Mysteries were held. So, they kind of featured as one would imagine, after the abduction of Persephone and Hades, they were a cycle of three phases, which were the descent, the search, and the ascent.
AMANDA: This is stirring up Media Studies memories in my brain.
JULIA: As it should, as it should. So, by celebrating in this cycle, mortals were able to continue the eternal flow of life from generation to generation, allowing them to be rewarded in the afterlife. That was the, like, basic principle of, like, if you participate in the Eleusinian Mysteries, this is what you get out of it.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: So, during the actual mysteries themselves, there would be a feast and I'm going to break it down, like, day by day because it was, like, a 10 day thing. There was a feast during which two priests would fill these two vessels of water and then pour them out. One to the east and one to the west. Similar to the story that we mentioned before, a child would also be initiated from the hearth. Though what that meant exactly is one of the things that was kind of lost through time because this was a very secretive practice. And apparently, the height of the celebration was an ear of grain cut in silence, which was said to represent new life. But beyond that, there's no other information. That's the only line that you can really find. It's just an ear of grain cut in silence. You're like, "What does that mean though?"
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: So, the Eleusinian Mysteries could also be divided between the greater and the lesser mysteries. So, the lesser mysteries took place in the middle of winter, usually around February or March. And this was where, like, a piglet was sacrificed to Demeter and Persephone. And then worshipers would purify themselves in the river. Not, like, super exciting stuff, but participating in the lesser mysteries; that's what qualified worshippers to be a part of the greater mysteries.
AMANDA: Okay, cuz I was gonna say who is like, "I'm fine with the lesser mysteries. Don't worry about it."
JULIA: Because the greater mysteries are fun. Like I said, they lasted 10 days. It ran in late summer, usually, like, late September, early October, typically.
AMANDA: I mean, a perfect time for a mystery. God.
JULIA: Exactly. So, first, the sacred items were brought to the temple. Again, a lot of this is gonna be vague, because a lot of the stuff was lost through time because it was a very secretive practice.
AMANDA: Oh, that makes it much more fun. Don't worry about it.
JULIA: Okay, great. So, the sacred items were brought to the temple. The next day, the priests gather to declare the start of the rites and then carried out a sacrifice of some kind.
AMANDA: Yup.
JULIA: On the third day, some celebrants would wash themselves in the sea in anticipation for the rest of the rituals. The fourth day was a kind of festival within a festival and it's centered on Asclepius, who you might remember was the healer, son of Apollo, who was so good that he could heal the dead.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Yeah. And then they were like, "You can't keep doing that." So they killed him. That night, there was then a feast that was supposed to last all night. Like, sunset to sunrise. And then the next day, which was the fifth day, was the sacred walk to the Temple of Eleusis, which, they would take a path that was just basically called the sacred way, and worshipers would swing branches that were called the bacchoi. Also, during this walk, which is my favorite part, there was a point at which the worshipers would shout dirty jokes and obscenities.
AMANDA: Oh wow.
JULIA: Because this was to honor Iambe, who was basically an old woman who was able to make Demeter smile even in her grief over losing Persephone by telling her dirty jokes.
AMANDA: Oh, fuck yeah, man.
JULIA: I love that so, so much. That makes me so happy.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Just like, "Ah, yes, we've hit the point. Now, everyone tell your dirtiest jokes."
AMANDA: Yes, when we crest the hill, let a real one rip.
JULIA: No fart jokes. Only-- only sexy jokes.
AMANDA: Fart jokes are the easy kind. Push yourself, Bob.
JULIA: So, when they finally arrive at the temple, there is an all night vigil, which was meant to represent Demeter's search for Persephone. Worshipers would also imbibe that barley water drink that we talked about, which some scholars believe might have also had, like, a psychotropic element. Like, they added some sort of psychotropic mushroom or something like that.
AMANDA: Interesting.
JULIA: Again, not everyone believes that, but some scholars do and I'm just sharing that information with all of you. On the next day, the initiates to the mysteries were brought into the Telesterion, which was a great hall within the temple. And within there was a dramatic reenactment of the Demeter and Persephone myth. Like, a whole, like, play situation. The sacred items were then displayed and then the initiates were taught the purpose of those sacred items. So, these three stages were called the Unrepeatables because if someone initiated into the mysteries revealed them, they would be punished by death.
AMANDA: This is the most theater kid shit I've ever heard. I'm so into it.
JULIA: It's extremely metal. I'm here for it.
AMANDA: Anyone who has read, like, Tana French or Donna Tartt books about, like, too intense liberal arts students living together in college, someone needs to do some kind of like inspired by novel based on this shit.
JULIA: Yeah. What was that one called?
AMANDA: The Secret History is kind of the most read one of this. Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah, that one's fucking buckwild. Everyone's like, "Oh yeah, dark academia," and then you're like, "The one character just does fucking, like, coke in a Burger King parking lot. What are you talking about?"
AMANDA: Yeah, it's a real Bacchanalia in New England vibe that teens are very into now.
JULIA: Yeah, the teens really like the dark academia now.
AMANDA: They do.
JULIA: Damn Tumblr. So, on the final day, the priests would reveal visions that were said to have been sent to them by the goddesses. And then there was one final all night feast that was thrown which is accompanied by dancing and revelry. Finally, a bowl would be sacrificed the morning after the feast, and the dead were honored again by pouring drink over the ground, both to the west and to the east.
AMANDA: Right on.
JULIA: And then that's it. Everyone went home.
AMANDA: I mean, I love that.
JULIA: Yeah, that's a fun, like, 10-day adventure, I feel like. Most of that's a lot of fun.
AMANDA: Yeah, I mean, we're recording this in the days before Christmas, and the New Year when nothing really is happening. And it is kind of like a 10-day-period of, like, rest. And, you know, for many of us, even if we want to be working, no one else is working. So, it's like, I don't know, just the idea of, like, a 10-day thing where you get to see all of your neighbors doing all of this shit. It really appeals to me right now.
JULIA: Yeah. We should have more celebrations, like, during this period of time that everyone participates in.
AMANDA: All of us can agree that the solstice is a good time to focus on, you know, light and sun shit.
JULIA: Hey, fuck yeah dawg. So, that was what we know about the Eleusinian mysteries, not everything we know, but a good summary for you in the listeners. And as we've mentioned before, Demeter was also worshiped with the Thesmophoria, which also worshipped Persephone as well. So, it was held during late Autumn when the seeds were sown in the fields, and it celebrated human and agricultural fertility.
AMANDA: Right on.
JULIA: Like we mentioned, only married adult women were welcome to celebrate in the festival. And for some, observing the rights was actually used as a form of proof of marriage, which is kind of fun. I like that.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And again, because Demeter was the goddess of sacred law, that makes a lot of sense as well. So, depending on where it was being celebrated, the time of year, it was slightly different. However, for the Athenians, it was celebrated in late October, and for three full days, and I feel like I mentioned this in the Poseidon episode, but the festival also featured eating cakes that were baked in the shape of sexual organs. Fun. Love that.
AMANDA: Greeks knew how to have fun. Yep.
JULIA: And they also, similarly to the mysteries, sacrificed pigs. I think it's just, like, that's an animal that farmers would have and therefore that's what you would sacrifice.
AMANDA: Useful. You know, precious.
JULIA: Yeah. On the second day, however, it was a day of fasting. Kind of to honor the morning of Demeter, who after she lost Persephone.
AMANDA: Maybe also you're hungover. Who can say?
JULIA: Who can say? Yeah. Well, I feel like you would want food after being hungover. You know what I mean?
AMANDA: Yeah. Or you really, like, you gorge yourself and then you're sated. You're like, "No, I can take a day off. Let's prepare for day three."
JULIA: Yes, exactly. Like, after Thanksgiving, like, you don't really want to eat that much after Thanksgiving so... And finally, on the third day, that was when the women would call upon the goddesses to pray for their own fertility, which was supposed to represent the return of Persephone, which I think is really nice.
AMANDA: Love a multi day festival. Not enough of those.
JULIA: We do! We love a multi day festival. Too few holidays nowadays are multi-day. Mostly because our holidays have been cut down by, like, corporate greed and shit like that, but I just wish we had more, like, multi day festivals where it's like, "Oh man, block out those 10 days. Here we go. We're celebrating." I know, like, Hanukkah is, like, a great example of that, like, multi day festival still but...
AMANDA: Yeah, lots of multi day festivals in Judaism but not enough in Christianity.
JULIA: Not enough in Christianity.
AMANDA: We need more secular multi day holidays. That's what we've really decided.
JULIA: Please, please just stop giving us long weekends. Give us things in the middle of the week.
AMANDA: Then I should do my weekend shit, and I have a day off and probably my employer expects me to answer email anyway. God!
JULIA: Screw that. Screw that. More Greek calendar stuff, in my opinion. I know a lot of our listeners were like, "You guys really should make that-- that calendar of all the Greek festivals and stuff like that." I will. I'm not going to sell it to you guys. Like, I'll just make it into, like, a Google calendar that we can share with you. I'm not gonna make you guys buy things that are free on the internet. That's ridiculous.
AMANDA: Let's work on that. We can do some kind of 2022 conspirators-quietly-observe-ancient-Greek-holidays as self-care rituals.
JULIA: Like bean day in bear day.
AMANDA: Yeah. These are all great. Dress-- yeah, exactly. Dress Your little girl on a toga day.
JULIA: Mhmm. I love it. Well, that is all I've got for Demeter. I love her a whole lot. I feel bad that so much of her stories are basically, like, I was mourning my daughter and then some other shit happened. But I'm glad that we get to talk about her because she was extremely important to ancient Greece and her worship, like, really does kind of give us a great insight on what the Greeks found important in day to day life.
AMANDA: Not least of all, because barley water is just one step from barley wine, one of my favorite drinks of all time.
JULIA: That is a really good beer style. I'm a big fan of that. Damn right.
AMANDA: Julia, thank you so much for taking us through the goddess of compost. I'm going to bring goddess-of-compost-energy to 2022 because truly we're all living in the dumpster fire, but let's see what we could make of it, you know?
JULIA: Yeah. And Amanda, you bring that goddess of compost energy and just remember to stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool. Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @spiritspodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a forum to send us in your urban legends, and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon patreon.com/spirits podcast for all kinds of behind the scenes goodies just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more like recipe cards with alcoholic and non alcoholic for every single episode directors commentaries, real physical gifts and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye.
Transcribed by: John Matthew M. Sarong