Episode 257: Athena
/It’s Girl Boss Time-- We mean, Athena Time. We talk about some cool birds that we like, how Meryl Streep is channeling Athena in most of the movies she’s in, and how weaving is cooler than war, anyway.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of cannibalism, birth, head injuries, fratricide, pregnancy, infidelity, child death, child endangerment, negging, starvation, misogyny, flooding, natural disasters, war, murder, death, and rape/sexual assault.
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Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And this is Episode 257: Athena.
JULIA: Ooh. Yep, we're back at it again with fulfilling the promise of Spirits podcast from Spirits podcast and--
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: --I know that a lot of you have been really enjoying these episodes, which brings me a lot of delight.
AMANDA: Me too. This is sort of like the Greek cinematic universe which we're all just, like, living in, in like, Western society. It's like origin stories because you get to see so many intersections of other figures that we've studied in other stories that have come up. So, I... I love kind of this, like, not even a back to basics, but, like, a reexamining of, like, a record screech. You may wonder how I first got here, and then let's... let's go back. Let's find out about them.
JULIA: It reminds me of when they do background stories on characters from comic books and stuff like that. And you're like, "Wolverine Origins," and like, "Yes, I do want to know how he got those metal on his claws."
AMANDA: How did I get these scars? An owl.
JULIA: Because Athena. I got it.
AMANDA: There you go. Well, Julia, first and foremost, we would love to welcome our newest patron, Bex. Thank you very, very much, Bex, for using your hard earned human dollars and depositing them in our owl mess. We don't talk about owls that much, it's just, like, it's on the mind. We also want to thank our Supporting-producer level patrons: Uhleeseeuh, Bryan, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jessica Stewart, Kneazlekins, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi. And our Legend-level patrons who are getting their lovely quarterly package of IRL gifts from us to them this week: Audra, Clara, Drew, Jaybaybay, Lexus, Mary, Morgan, Morgan H., Mother of Vikings, Sarah, Taylor, & Bea Me Up Scotty.
JULIA: I love all these people so much, and you know what, Amanda? I think they are the girl-boss of whatever Pantheon they are a part of.
AMANDA: 100%.
JULIA: Amanda, what have you been watching, listening to, reading lately because I just finished a wild book and now I need more.
AMANDA: Completely. I have been loving a new podcast called Stories with Sapphire, this is a horror and paranormal podcast that's all about, like, empathy and diversity. So, something that's really up our alley. Every episode follows a theme and contains stories from real people that then Sapphire, the host, brings, like, personal insight and perspective to. That includes things like, you know, heartwarming stories from people who have passed on, communicating with the current world, to very terrifying urban legends. So, if you enjoy our Urban Legends episode and spooky stories, generally, I think you would really appreciate Stories of Sapphire because it really is approaching, like, horror and paranormal stuff with a kind of, like, empathetic and respectful lens. So, that's a balance that we try to strike and I think sapphire does it really well.
JULIA: Yeah, Amanda, you recommended this to me on the... on the DL not on the podcast a few weeks ago. And I really, really liked all the episodes that I listened to. So, I think our listeners will as well.
AMANDA: So, that's at storieswithsapphire.com or look up Stories with Sapphire in your podcast app.
JULIA: Do it.
AMANDA: And Julia, it looks like folks are checking out that recommendation, what other shows from Multitude should they be checking out in this kind of like dwindling time of year, you know, when it's less light out at least here in our hemisphere and, you know, you need something to accompany you on the, you know, late evening, garbage taking out, dog walking, commute home journey?
JULIA: Well, I mean, if we're going to stay on this theme of supernatural and mythology and stuff like that, they obviously have to check out Exolore. You've probably heard our episodes with the amazing Dr. Moiya McTier. She's the host of Exolore where, like, she kind of begs the question, "What would a planet different than ours look like, and how do writers that create your favorite fictional worlds do that?" So, she'll interview them one story or world at a time and she explores these fictional worlds, either building them with a panel of expert guests, interviewing professional world builders, or reviewing the merits of worlds that have already been built. So, you can learn, you can laugh, and you'll gain some appreciation for how special our planet, this one, Earth, really is. So, you can subscribe today by searching for Exolore in your podcast app or you can go to exolorepod.com.
AMANDA: Fantastic. Well, I think that is some exciting homework for people to take away and check out and not even homework just, like, an exciting gift bag as they start their journey into Spirits podcast: Episode 257: Athena.
JULIA: So, Amanda, we are back at it on Olympus in another segment of It's All Greek to Me, finally fulfilling the promise of Spirits Podcast brought to you by Spirits Podcast. I feel like we need, like, a singer or theme song here, you know?
AMANDA: Eric, work on that. What are Greek sounds? Rustling laurel leaves, that's really sad for me now. Thanks, Julia.
JULIA: Like, Pan flutes, you know?
AMANDA: That's good.
JULIA: Cool. That's what we're thinking of for it. But this week, we're going to be talking about probably what I would dub the first Greek girl-boss, maybe?
AMANDA: Yeah, if you know anything about Greek mythology, you probably know that Zeus is at least the father, if not the fuck-father, that's like the... the second level exploding brain meme of Greek knowledge. You know that Athena is kind of a girl-boss.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. So, what are your first thoughts about Athena, Amanda, when I say the name Athena?
AMANDA: Figure head. Like a goddess that girls can look at and say, "It me."
JULIA: Cool. I love that. Okay. So, Athena's the goddess of war and handicraft and we're going to get things started right off the bat with probably her most famous story, which is actually her birth story. So, when it comes to the start of Athena's tales, it always starts with her birth, which you would, I guess, typically.
AMANDA: As it does for all of us.
JULIA: I was gonna say typically is the case with the Greek gods, but for Athena, her birth is unique even by Greek mythology standards.
AMANDA: Okay, Julia, can I guess?
JULIA: Go for it.
AMANDA: Was she like Macbeth, delivered by C section?
JULIA: No, but you're not, like, too far off. Okay. The way I have always heard the story be told is: One day Zeus was struck with a terrible headache. The pain was so bad that he went to Hephaestus, who we'll learn about later, don't worry about it, but he tells Hephaestus that he needs him to relieve this headache. And so, Hephaestus takes a nail and a hammer and legit just cracks Zeus' head open. Just... just cracks it all on up.
AMANDA: Oh, wow. And he recovers from that?
JULIA: He recovers from it, but from his head, Athena leaps out fully formed, dressed in armor and Zeus is like, "Hell yeah, this is my kid. Love her." Yeah, yeah, solid parenting, I feel like.
AMANDA: That checks out. I mean, there's a real whoo, like, some people tell their origin stories. And it's like I was born the Tempest and I feel like that has never been truer for anybody than Athena.
JULIA: So, she was Zeus' favorite child from this point in most stories, and another version of the same tale has an additional twist, which of course makes Zeus seem like more of an asshole, obviously, because this is Greek mythology. There isn't a minute in Greek mythology where he isn't just, like, showing his ass so. So, anyway, the additional twist involves Metis, who is the Greek mother of wisdom and deep thought. So, she was a sea nymph. She was said to be Zeus' first wife before he, like, rescued his siblings from the stomach of their father Cronos.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: However, Zeus didn't really trust her because there was a prophecy that was foretold that she would eventually bear two children that were said to be extremely powerful. Like, the Fates said that the first would be a daughter, and then the second would be a son that would be more powerful than Zeus and overthrow him, much like Zeus had overthrown his own father and how Cronos had done the same to his father. So, Zeus figured out that he would just, like, take a leaf from his own dad's book, which is never a good thing. You don't want to do that.
AMANDA: I was like, "Just like Oedipus," then I was like, "Uh, Amanda, ancient Greek play." It's all of the same soup.
JULIA: It's still... it's all... it's all soup. It's all soup.
AMANDA: It's all soup.
JULIA: The Greek mythology, it's all soup.
AMANDA: It's all soup down there.
JULIA: So, taking the leaf out of his father's book, he decides that he's going to trick her into turning into a fly and then swallows her whole, and he's just like, "Okay. Well, we handled that, and there's no problems anymore."
AMANDA: I don't think that's how it works.
JULIA: No, because what he didn't know was, at the time, Metis was already pregnant with their daughter.
AMANDA: Ah.
JULIA: And so, in the bowels of Zeus' stomach, she manages to craft armor, a shield, and a spear. And then, like, gives birth to Athena, gives her all of these things and then raises her into Zeus' head, where Athena makes such a ruckus with her shield and her spear, which is the cause of Zeus' headache.
AMANDA: Oh, oh.
JULIA: Ohoh.
AMANDA: I never. You said this was her most famous story. Julia, I never could have predicted one ounce of this.
JULIA: Really? Interesting. I'm very pleased. So, the ending is basically the same in this version of the story. Zeus goes to Hephaestus who, like, drills or hammers a hole into his head. Athena emerges fully grown, wearing the armor that her mother gave her.
AMANDA: Like a medieval Baby Jesus, man's face, baby body.
JULIA: And it's kind of ironic and kind of fun since she is the goddess of, like, wisdom and knowledge and stuff that she popped out of Zeus' head because it's mostly empty in there.
AMANDA: Exactly. Exactly, Julia.
JULIA: Hesiod had actually summarizes the story really beautifully in the Theogony. So, here's the quote, "But Zeus laid with the fair cheat daughter of Ocean and Tethys, apart from Hera," this version, he was married to Hera, this was an affair. "Deceiving Metis, although she was full wise, but he seized her with his hand and put her in his belly for fear that she might bring forth something stronger than his thunderbolt. Therefore, did Zeus, who sits on high and dwells in the ether, swallow her down suddenly. But she straightway conceived Pallas Athena and the father of men and gods gave her birth by way of his head on the banks of the River Trito. And she remained hidden beneath the inward parts of Zeus. Even Metis, Athena's mother, worker of righteousness, who was wiser than gods and mortal men."
AMANDA: Okay, Julia, I... I have a few thoughts here.
JULIA: Okay, go for it.
AMANDA: One, not a good look to sleep with someone who is married and doesn't have that as part of their relationship, right? Like, okay. However, I think Zeus is the deserver of the epithet deceiving in this verse. Um, sir, excuse me. Secondly, what a metaphor. So worried about what your child or your lover or people after you could wrought that you destroy someone else's life in order to preserve your own fragile legacy. That is the male ego, I would have to say.
JULIA: There's a lot of that in Greek mythology, unfortunately.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: There's a lot of prophecies where it's like, "Your son will be stronger than you," and they're like, "We can't have that!"
AMANDA: Can't happen!
JULIA: Kill the wife and the baby.
AMANDA: I don't know, man. I... I just, I'm delighted. Like, this is gonna be a real aside to corporate management. Are you ready for it?
JULIA: Let's do it.
AMANDA: Is this a good place for it? Okay. My first day that I ever met my second ever boss, she was coming back from leave and met me. And was like, "Hey, great to meet you. What job do you want after this one?" And I was like, "Excuse me, madam. I would like to pay back my student loans and keep this one." And she's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but like, what... what can I help you work on and, like, learn so that, you know, with the next one. Like, you're not gonna work for me for the rest your life." And I was like, "We can all just, like, reference the fiction that I love this job and, like, want to work at it forever and, like, have no aspirations beyond moving up your specific corporate ladder." Like, what? It was mind blowing, and the people that you train surpassing you and going on for the rest of their lives to talk about how you were an integral part of their life or mentorship or journey or whatever, or at least unhinder them. Like, that's great, and that's the kind of legacy I want to leave behind Zeus, sir.
JULIA: She was really vibing with Athena there, and I appreciate that.
AMANDA: Yeah, me too.
JULIA: So, I'm going to quickly go back to how I mentioned that Athena was Zeus' favorite child, because she truly was. The myth say so as much and even if they didn't, you can kind of tell just by how Zeus treats her. For instance, she was the only one allowed to wield his shield, the Aegis.
AMANDA: A) Great Pokemon. B) Do you think that Zeus kind of likes to be nagged? Do you... do you think that's why and why Athena was clearly from the beginning much better than him? He was sort of like, "Ah yes, my favorite."
JULIA: I don't. I think he's too dumb to know that he is being nagged.
AMANDA: Maybe Athena reminds him of most of him, and then like a boomer manager is, like, "That's the one I want to hire, the one who seems like me."
JULIA: God, that's just terrible. I hate that. I hate Zeus as a boomer manager. How dare you put this into my brain? But the Aegis, in case people are not familiar, it was a animal skin shield that was sometimes depicted featuring the head of the Gorgon, which we will get to later, don't worry. Athena was also the only other god who was given permission to wield Zeus' signature weapon, the Thunderbolt.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Which is a big deal because that's, like, his thing.
AMANDA: That's his thing.
JULIA: As her birth might have indicated the fact that she was born fully formed in armor and with a shield and a spear in hand, she was associated with war. Some stories, she is seen as this ruthless battle goddess, such as in the Iliad. However, in other stories, she is only prone to war when it comes to defending the homeland from outside forces.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Which I think I prefer. She's usually portrayed as, like, the strategy of war rather than the actual, like, action and blood and guts of war, like the battlefield.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: This idea of her defending the homeland from outside forces kind of ties to her association as the, "Goddess of the City." So she is, like, the protector of civilized life, according to the Greeks. Also, patron goddess of handicraft and taming the wilds for the benefit of humankind. So, she was said to have invented the bridle, which to tame horses.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: For instance, and also associated with agriculture. So, just basically, like, civilization is her domain.
AMANDA: I'm into it. Athena is a definite horse girl, Julia. You just confirmed it.
JULIA: She is and it's kind of funny because we'll learn about this in the Poseidon episode. Hint: That's the next one that we're doing.
AMANDA: Yay.
JULIA: Poseidon and she have a lot of grudges and don't get along very often, but Poseidon was the one who invented the horse. So the fact that she was like, "Yeah, this beautiful, wild natural thing. I'ma tame it. Fuck you, Poseidon."
AMANDA: Oh my god, I can't wait.
JULIA: I really, really like that one. As many of the other Greek gods and goddesses we learned about, you are familiar, Athena has a few titles besides her own name. So, she is usually referred to as Pallas Athena, which means, like, young or young lady and oftentimes Gray-eyed Athena.
AMANDA: Let's say bye for a second, Julia, about... about Mary Sue's and fanfiction.
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: AKA a derisive way for people to make young women, you know, feel bad about, like, you know, wanting to kind of have some wish fulfillment in fantasy, which if that's not all of Western novels, I don't know what it is. I always wanted to be a gray-eyed person, but I know violet-eye was kind of the other option, and I just felt like gray-eyed people. It's kind of like brunettes versus blondes or something. I don't know. I... I think you kind of want what you don't have.
JULIA: Mhmm.
AMANDA: And gray eyes seem like a way... I don't know. It's like the... it's like the mysterious brunette of eye colors.
JULIA: Yeah, I always wanted to be a golden eye. Like a predator. That's always--
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: --been my thing.
AMANDA: That's... that's why I associate you with Athena, Julia.
JULIA: There we go. I want to be cat-lady. Not actual--
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: --cat lady, but have predator eyes. That's kind of what I'm going for.
AMANDA: Yeah. Someone's like, "Ooh, like, the feline glint of her eyes as she targeted me," and you're like, "Mhmm."
JULIA: Mhmm. Yes, yes. Gray-eyed sometimes is translated to flashing eyes as well.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: So, like, her eyes are, like, sparkly. Like, "Oh," and she turns and all of a sudden it's a flash of light.
AMANDA: Oh yeah, love that.
JULIA: She is also known as Parthenos, or the virgin, or the maiden, as she as well as Artemis and Hestia were considered the virgin goddesses of the Olympians which we talked about a little bit in the Artemis one. Again, it is less about, like, actual virginity and more the idea of I'm never going to marry so a man can have no hold on me.
AMANDA: Yeah, just substitute virgin for spinster in the reclaimed feminist sense.
JULIA: Yes, exactly. She's also known as Atrytone or the unwearying. So, like, she never wearies. She never tires.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: And also as Promachos, “she who fights in the front,” which is very good.
AMANDA: Fuck yeah, man.
JULIA: Yeah. Like, she's on the front lines doing the battle--
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: --when the general and the men are, you know, standing behind their troops.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And she's also Polias, of the city, and Ergane, “the industrious,” for her association with crafts and artisans. She is also associated with the owl, which actually has a kind of very interesting origin.
AMANDA: Ooh, I know about the association of Minerva, with owls, which is her Roman counterpoint, I learned in our recent live show, spiritspodcast.com/live.
JULIA: Yes, yes, yes.
AMANDA: But tell me why.
JULIA: It's very likely that many of the Greek gods, they had origins that predate the Greeks. So, in the case of Athena, it is most likely that she was a Aegean palace goddess, so she would rule over household crafts and was also the protector of the king in his palace. But I think it’s a really kind of interesting and, like, a very localized kind of goddess. I really think that's super interesting that she's, like, so hyper specific to this specific palace, specific bloodline, and also all of the, like, household crafts that happened in there.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: I love that. So, in some early representations of her in this form, she was sometimes seen represented by the owl herself and was depicted as a bird goddess, in this case, the owl. So, either she was, like, literally an owl. Kind of like in certain portrayals of Egyptian mythology they're, like, literally a cat or literally a jackal, you know?
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And then later on, she would be like, human body, owl wings.
AMANDA: Love it. I love all combinations. And before you tag me in horrifying ones, I like most combinations of... of lady and bird.
JULIA: Good, good. So, in later Greek depictions, she was often shown with an owl perched on her hand. Like you said, the images of Minerva also kind of reflect that as well. And this association with her would lead the Greeks to consider the owl as a symbol of wisdom. So, it's her association that the owl became kind of the wise knowing bird.
AMANDA: So funny. What a good reason to learn about mythology. because then you're like, "Ah, yes, that's why owls are wise."
JULIA: That's why owls are wise. That's why we go to the owl to see how many licks we'll take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie pop.
AMANDA: Can someone explain out to me the proliferation of owl imagery and, like, the Delia's corner of mall couture in, like, the mid 2010s.
JULIA: Owls, big eyes, fluffy, cute.
AMANDA: Yeah. Owl City, not unrelated I don't think?
JULIA: The band?
AMANDA: Yeah, the band.
JULIA: That's a good point. I don't know. Someone tell me why Owl City is named Owl City, and we'll see. So, additionally, she has been shown to be associated with other birds in classic Greek mythology. In the Odyssey, for instance, she appears as a sea eagle.
AMANDA: What is a sea eagle?
JULIA: I don't know. I just was like, "what is a sea eagle?" So, I Googled this. It looks just like a bald eagle. It might just be the Greek version of a bald eagle.
AMANDA: Sea eagle versus bald eagle.
JULIA: They're also known as Ernes and sometimes White-tailed-eagles.
AMANDA: A sea eagle is a rectangle and a bald eagle is a square.
JULIA: Yes, correct.
AMANDA: Damn. Cool, didn't know that.
JULIA: Love that. It would probably be the African fish eagle because that one--
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: --is the closest. Or the Pallas's Fish Eagle.
AMANDA: Or Pallas's Fish Eagle.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah, I like that one.
JULIA: That was bird corner. Thank you for joining us at bird corner as we figure out what a Sea eagle is.
AMANDA: The Pallas's Fish Eagle really looks like a bald eagle wearing a mask and a wig and it's really funny. I could not recommend more that you look up the Pallas's Fish Eagle.
JULIA: Oh, this is just as an aside, I went to the Bronx Zoo a couple of weeks ago for my birthday, and we went to an outdoor exhibit where there was a bunch of these seagulls and also penguins. And the seagulls had little, like, feathers on their beaks that looked like little curly mustaches.
AMANDA: Oh, my god.
JULIA: And it was the coolest thing I've ever seen and then it shit on one of my friends.
AMANDA: Oh no.
JULIA: So that... that's a fun little bird corner update.
AMANDA: It has been bird corner with Spirits podcast, back to It's All Greek to Me, finally fulfilling the promise of Spirits podcast by Spirits podcast.
JULIA: So, perhaps one of my favorite stories of Athena is about the naming of the city of Athens.
AMANDA: Hell yeah, dude.
JULIA: The city of Athens was originally called the City of Cecropia, named after the legendary King that built it, Cecrops. Cecrops was probably your least favorite thing, Amanda. He was half-man, half-snake.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: Or half-dragon depending on the story.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: And he ruled over his city for many years. He was a firm ruler, but his city flourished under his rule. And he turned his city into an important trade center for the rest of Greece. So, this was a cool city to be in. It wasn't loosey-goosey or anything but trade was good.
AMANDA: Sorry that being a half-man, half-dragon was not as cool as being Athena.
JULIA: It wasn't. Not at all. But the problem was the city was thriving. And so, it caught the attention of the Greek gods because they became jealous that the city was not paying them proper tribute.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: So, they came to Cecrops, and they told him you have to name a patron god for your city and name that city after the patron. So, he was like, "I mean, I'm not going to tell the gods, 'No,' because you'll just destroy my city otherwise, so that's not going to work."
AMANDA: Fair.
JULIA: So, the gods debate over who is going to be allowed to become the patron of the city. And after a long debate, Poseidon and Athena were the, like, remaining options. It's like they beat everyone else out and they were just going head-to-head.
AMANDA: There at the top of the bracket. I'm... I'm sensing some of the rivalry brewing here. I love it.
JULIA: So, they turned to Zeus to make the decision, but Zeus instead tells them that they would present to the city of Cecropia a gift and whichever the people decided was the better offering, that god would become the patron god of the city.
AMANDA: Okay, I'm kind of into this.
JULIA: I like it. It's like, "Oh, yeah. Well, if you want to be a patron god, you got to give a gift," you know?
AMANDA: Yeah. It's also saying like, which of you gets them better, like, you know, which do the people like more?
JULIA: Exactly. So, Poseidon and Athena, they appear in Cecropia on the day that was determined for their contest. Poseidon steps up to a rock, he draws his trident, and he strikes the rock with his weapon. From where he strikes the rock, a spring of water gushes from the ground. And at first, the citizens are delighted, because a spring means that the citizens will never have to face a drought and would very likely never go thirsty again, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: It's a big deal, you know?
AMANDA: It's a big deal.
JULIA: So, the citizens in attendance are so excited that they rush forward to drink from the spring, but the minute they taste it, they realize that the water is saltwater, not fresh, because Poseidon is the god of the sea.
AMANDA: Poseidon, you can't do that.
JULIA: And so they're like, a little disappointed, that, like, "Oh, okay, so now there's just this cool saltwater spring here, I guess. Alright." But then Athena steps up, and she holds out her hand and she reveals a seed in her palm, right? So, she plants the seed into the ground, and in an instant, it takes root and grows into a tall, beautiful tree. Do you want to guess what kind of tree?
AMANDA: Greek, I mean, is it an olive tree?
JULIA: It is an olive tree.
AMANDA: Yay.
JULIA: Amanda, good job.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Here's a great little line of poetry about it. So it's, "The great gleaming olive, Athena showed to men, the glory of shining Athens, her crown from on high."
AMANDA: It's really good.
JULIA: It's beautiful.
AMANDA: Olive is useful as hell, man.
JULIA: Exactly. And the citizens were super pleased because it meant not only were they going to have food, but it also meant that they were going to have olive oil and firewood whenever they needed it. So, unanimously, the citizens named Athena, their new patron goddess, and the name of the city was changed to Athens. So, to this day, Athena is associated with the olive tree and there's a sacred olive tree that still grows on the site of the Acropolis.
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: Yeah, it's really beautiful. I've seen pictures of it, and I've seen it in person and it's very, very cool.
AMANDA: That's awesome. Sorry, Poseidon, you can go drink salt water?
JULIA: Yeah. So, the problem is Poseidon got so pissed that he lost that he sent a great wave that flooded the city of Athens, like, immediately after.
AMANDA: Sure, sure.
JULIA: Obviously, the city recovered. They were... they were okay.
AMANDA: They're doing fine.
JULIA: There's also another version of the tale, which is kind of shitty, if you'd like to hear that.
AMANDA: Yes, I would.
JULIA: Okay, so the premise is back in those days, women had the right to vote as well as men. So, in the contest between Athena and Poseidon for the city, all the men voted for Poseidon and all of the women voted for Athena.
AMANDA: And like in the modern day U.S., did more women vote than men?
JULIA: Well, there was more women than men. There was one more woman than there was men.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: And so, Athena won the city and Poseidon still flooded the city, this apparently is an explanation as to why Athens no longer allows women to vote, which you cannot see me physically rolling my eyes, listeners, but I hope you can hear it in my voice.
AMANDA: I made with my face, the face of the emoji with the flat mouth.
JULIA: Mmh. Mmh.
AMANDA: Mmh. Yeah.
JULIA: So, as we know, one good story does not make a perfect god or goddess, especially in Greek mythology, but we'll create a more informed opinion on Athena as soon as we tell some more stories about her, which we will do right after we get a refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: If you're a listener to this podcast, I know you like two things, and that is creepy stuff, and also magic probably. So, I'm going to recommend for you this week a podcast by Realm. And Realm is, like, part podcast studio, part magical refuge and they create incredible original fiction podcasts. As well as, like, continuations of popular franchises. Like, let's say Orphan Black. That's an option, but I'm going to recommend their podcast this week, Roanoke falls. So, in 1587 North Carolina, Agnes is a reluctant seller of Roanoke, forced to leave England with her preacher husband, Thomas, in search of a better life, but the first colony failed and Agnes fears that this one will suffer the same fate: lack of resources, frigid cold, and starvation. And then, a series of ritualistic murders happen in the colony and things just get wild from there, so.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: If that sounds appealing to you at all, and you like stories for your ears that are beautifully sound designed and tell very creepy things, check out Roanoke Falls. Search your podcast app, listen to it. It seems like it's a lot of fun and I really like a lot of Realm's other podcasts. So, I know I'm gonna be checking this one out. So, you can find Roanoke Falls wherever you find your podcast. And you can check out Realm at realm.fm and @realmmedia on Twitter, and realmmedia_ on Instagram. Check it out, Roanoke falls.
AMANDA: Julia, as you know, I am engaged and... and beginning that whole wedding planning process.
JULIA: Yay!
AMANDA: Very, very exciting setting moment in my life. And also, there are people asking about, like, as I, for example, go to try on wedding dresses. One of the things in the email was like, "Hey, wear structure under there. Get your whole scaffold ready because you're going to be, like, trying stuff on and it's important to be wearing stuff that you want to wear."
JULIA: It's fun to get an email saying, "Hey, get your boobs ready."
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah. They... they said that and I am very glad that I have exactly one, I count them, one comfortable strapless bra and it is from Third Love.
JULIA: Mmh.
AMANDA: This is 100% true. And whenever you are looking for good structure and scaffolding for your boobs, it's just what I call them, or if you are trying to kind of, like, gift or treat yourself to comfort, then you should do that. It...it is exciting to be comfortable in the stuff that you're wearing. And it's also exciting to, like, receive or to give a gift that you're truly excited about. And Third Love is a really great place to check out if you want to buy your friends or loved ones not just stuff that will be like, "Oh, like a present. Enjoy it, whatever," but something that they're going to wear all the time and be like, "Oh, holy shit this is so comfortable. I'm so happy that you bought this for me," or for yourself and I am excited to buy not just myself but also some loved ones, some gifts from Third Love this holiday season, whether it's sleepwear, loungewear, bras, or underwear. Listen guys, it's better and every strapless bra that has ever dug into my sides and made me unhappy and... and felt like a prison, I... I just am so sad I didn't know about Third Love earlier because now I get to wear one and be like, "Yes, let me try on a bunch of dresses in a very lit room because I know at least that the girls are staying where they are." And that is why I love Third Love so much. Listen, guys, feeling is believing. Upgrade to everyday pieces that love your body as much as you do. Right now, you can get 20% off your first order at thirdlove.com/spirits, that's 20% off at thirdlove.com/spirits.
JULIA: Amanda, I feel like I stepped outside November 1st and fall was finally in the air.
AMANDA: Oh yeah.
JULIA: And this is my favorite time of year because one, I can swap out the shoes that make my feet sweat for shoes that, you know, are actually comfortable for this time of year. And one of those pairs that I always break out this time of year are my Rothy's. They have stuff from cool sneakers to flats, for... made for, like, basically any adventure you might go on during the fall. Plus they have these great spacious washable bags that are perfect for carrying your essentials. Or like, maybe you're going to the grocery store and they make you pay for bags now and you're like, "Hey, I got to throw all this stuff in my great washable Rothy's bag," and "Oh, no. A little bit of milk spilled," but it's okay because I can wash that bag. It's great.
AMANDA: They also have men's shoes now, and I know Editor Eric has really been enjoying his boat shoes that he got from Rothy's. We're all a fan of the color and whenever he posts messages to our slack of, like, him and the boys, like, out for a walk. Those are his dogs. We'll be like, "Hey, look at those Rothy's shoes."
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: And it is so exciting. They have the same level of craftsmanship and comfort as their women's shoes as well.
JULIA: Yeah. So, to help you welcome the fall season in style, Rothy's is doing something special. They gave us the chance to share this super rare opportunity with our listeners for a limited time. So, right now, you can get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/spirits. That's r o t h y s.com/spirits. So, head to rothys.com/spirits to find your new favorites today.
AMANDA: And now, let's get back to the show.
JULIA: Okay, so because Athena's gift to Athens was the olive tree, naturally, I want to make a cocktail with olive flavor. And I know dirty martinis aren't for everyone, but I really like them. Especially if there's, like, a blue cheese olive situation going on. Like, chefs kiss.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Sign me up.
AMANDA: Delish.
JULIA: Every time. And I also find that adding just a little bit of, like, olive oil, especially if you have an infused olive oil on top of your dirty martini, like, just a drop or two before serving really adds a nice, like, subtlety for those who want a little bit less of that Vaca Vermouth flavor. So, next time you're having a dirty martini, try that out.
AMANDA: Yeah, as a kid, I remember my mom would take me into William Sonoma from time to time if she had to, like, buy a wedding present or, you know, like, a really nice, like, teacher gift. And I'd be like, "Ugh, mom, so boring. These all these bottles." And now I'm just like, "God, I want a nice olive oil. I want some, like, really fancy nuts. Like, that sounds wonderful."
JULIA: You can infuse your olive oil at home guys. Just buy some olive oil, some not, like, super cheap olive oil, but, like, something that's in a dark bottle that's extra virgin, that you can then put a couple of, like, rosemary stems and stuff like that in there. That'll, like, really do it for you and just let it soak in there for a long time.
AMANDA: Yum.
JULIA: I'm telling you, it's... it's a good shit. A couple of gentle sips on our dirty martinis, and let's talk about war.
AMANDA: Wooh!
JULIA: Thank you, thank you. That's the... that's the kind of attitude I want when I'm talking about war. So, specifically, we're going to talk about the Trojan War.
AMANDA: Always. Always, baby.
JULIA: Athena played a pretty large role in the Trojan War, especially when referencing the Iliad. So, first things first, Athena was one of the goddesses that participated in the beauty contest for the Golden Apple of Discord.
AMANDA: Right
JULIA: Paris of Troy was the judge and Athena offered him wisdom and skill in battle, as well as the abilities of the greatest warriors, which was something that he ended up needing after he picked Aphrodite to win and started the Trojan War.
AMANDA: Uh-huh.
JULIA: Like, he just would have been better off if he had taken those because he's like, "Who, no matter who I pick, it's probably going to start a war. And then, at least I'll have the skills of Athena on my side."
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: Stupid. Stupid Paris. Anyway, during the war, she supported Achilles, who she was said to not only encourage but to act as a counselor for as well. She helped out Menelaus who was the husband of Helen before Paris stole her away, and he was saved by Athena when she shielded him from an arrow that almost definitely would have killed him. Like, imagine being on the battlefield and there's an arrow flying towards you, and then all of a sudden, like, Athena's there with a shield. And you're like, "Oh, my God. The goddess just saved me."
AMANDA: Yeah. I would... I would, like, make offerings to her every day.
JULIA: Yeah. Oh my god. So, Athena was also the one that gave Odysseus the idea for the wooden horse that allowed the Greeks to gain entry into the walls of Troy.
AMANDA: An icon.
JULIA: Truly, truly. She was iconic when it came to the Trojan War, for sure. But after that, she ended up actually turning on the Greeks. You might remember from our Apollo episode, we talked about the fate of Cassandra, who was dragged from the Temple of Athena by the Greeks at the end of the war. And like I mentioned, this pissed Athena the fuck off.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: You don't mess with Athena's temples as we'll talk about later, but she spoke to Poseidon, and together they sent violent storms at the Greek ships, scattered them, killing men, including the hero Ajax who had been among the men who had defiled her temple in Troy. And this was actually the same storm that also swept Odysseus off course starting his Odyssey home, a trip that would take him 10 years.
AMANDA: Indeed it did.
JULIA: Indeed it did.
AMANDA: And we've talked about it for many, many hundreds of multiples of that since
JULIA: Yep. We su-- we sure have. It was a 10-year voyage, but we've talked about it for 1000s
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: So, as you might expect, Athena assisted many heroes in their quests throughout Greek mythology since she was known for her wisdom and her cunning. She was also considered the patroness of heroes and would offer her counsel to those that she saw reflected her own gifts. So it's very like, "Ah yes, I see a lot in you my son. I will teach you my ways."
AMANDA: Fair enough.
JULIA: You remind me of a young me. The classic girl-boss line.
AMANDA: It really is. And to be clear, we don't support the archetype of the girl boss but I think it's very suitable for Athena here who loves war.
JULIA: I was just about to say, do you think, just, Meryl Streep is doing, jus,t a good Athena impression in The Devil Wears Prada?
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Mmh.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: May I propose?
AMANDA: That's worth further consideration, Julia.
JULIA: All right. Maybe we'll do a myth movie night and just watch... watch The Devil Wears Prada and see whether or not we think she embodies Athena or not.
AMANDA: I could picture Athena floating like the Christian God above a temple, like, looking down disembodied.
JULIA: Sure.
AMANDA: At, like, her supplicants and thinking florals for spring groundbreaking. I really could. I really could.
JULIA: That's all. That's all. She... she hands, we'll talk about this later, hands Perseus' shield. That's all. You may go. So, patroness of heroes, and since we've mentioned Odysseus before, let's talk about the relationship between Odysseus and Athena. So, throughout the Trojan War and The Odyssey, Athena would often come to him in dreams and give him kind of indirect direction on how he might succeed. Athena was the one that petitioned Zeus to allow Odysseus to finally return home, which was defying Poseidon wishes since the sea god held a grudge against Odysseus, who as you might remember, blinded the Poseidon's Cyclops son during his voyages so.
AMANDA: Yeah, sure did.
JULIA: So, when Poseidon discovered that Odysseus had been released from Calypso, and had set sail on a raft, he attempted to drown the hero, but Athena and a sea nymph stepped in to help the hero once again. So, when Odysseus finally washed ashore, Athena had disguised herself as a local girl, and then led the king of Phaeacia's daughter to where he had washed up so that the king of Phaeacia would, like, bring him in, take care of him, and make it so that he would be able to return home.
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: I love the idea of just, like, little Athena's like, "I'm a 12-year-old girl. Let me show you where this dead body is." But it's really a live body. It's a real standby and be Stephen King, "Hey, Princess of this island, do you want to see a dead body?"
AMANDA: Listen, some little girls, really interested in dead bodies, myself included.
JULIA: That's fine, you know? Someone has to grow up to be morticians.
AMANDA: Completely.
JULIA: So, when Odysseus does return home to his kingdom of Ithaca. He's been away for 20 years at this point. He spent 10 years going to and fighting in Troy, and then 10 years trying to get home. Obviously, he was presumed dead and his wife, Penelope had been putting off the advances of suitors for almost 10 years at that point. So, Athena disguises Odysseus as a beggar so that when he returns home, he can sneak into the palace without notice. And he was able to reclaim his kingdom, his wife, and his son. And Athena even helps, like, slaughter all of these wicked suitors along with Odysseus and his son, Telemachus. So, it's just, like, one of my favorite parts about this story is that Athena in order to give Odysseus and Penelope more time to be reunited, wink.
AMANDA: Mmh.
JULIA: Literally holds back the dawn so that the next day would come later.
AMANDA: Oh, shit, that's a romance novel thing.
JULIA: It's very sweet. I love that so, so much.
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: And, like, I feel like that's a classic thing where I feel like I've heard that trope before where it's like, "Ah, if only the gods could hold back the dawn." You know what, it's Shakespeare. That's 100% what I'm thinking. It was Romeo Juliet.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Shakespeare.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Sometimes my brain just takes a second to be like, "Who said that? Romeo? Okay."
AMANDA: It's old stuff, but it's easy to forget that some old stuff came before other old stuff.
JULIA: Right.
AMANDA: You know what I mean?
JULIA: I mean, Shakespeare definitely took it from the Odyssey, you know? It's definitely a thing.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: So, Odysseus was perhaps one of the favorites of Athena, but he certainly was not the only one who received her aid. So, quickly, I'll tell you about Bellerophon, who you might know as the hero who rode Pegasus, the flying horse.
AMANDA: Ey!
JULIA: And also slew the Chimera who is the fire breathing beast with a lion, and a goat-head. and a serpent for a tail.
AMANDA: Another friend from our live show, spiritspodcast.com/live.
JULIA: That live show was so much fun. If you want to see Amanda's extremely cute drawing of the Chimera, you have to see that live show.
AMANDA: Yep. Halloween 2021, baby.
JULIA: So, it was said that Bellerophon had heard the stories of the Pegasus who had been born of the blood of the Gorgon, Medusa. And he desperately wanted the horse for his own. He was like, "But that horse, that Horse is so cool. I love a horse."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: This horse, the coolest.
AMANDA: Me every time I see a picture of a dog I could adopt on Instagram.
JULIA: Oh, so sad. So, he went and he slept in the Temple of Athena praying that she might help him on his quest. So, in his dreams, Athena came to him bearing a golden bridle. So, when he woke, the goddess was gone, but the bridle remained and he was able to charm and tame Pegasus using it. And then, he was able to defeat the Chimera on the back of Pegasus. All thanks to Athena.
AMANDA: Damn, what a wish fulfillment fantasy.
JULIA: Truly. Truly. It's like, "What if I could have a flying horse? Would that be good? Would that be fun?"
AMANDA: And like a cool sword.
JULIA: Also a cool sword and a cool, basically a saddle. So, speaking of the origins of Pegasus, that leads us to the last hero assisted by Athena that we'll talk about today, Perseus.
AMANDA: My favorite butt.
JULIA: He's got a real good butt.
AMANDA: Listen, if you go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City and you don't look at the statue of Perseus and Medusa's head, and walk around the back of it and take a good old pic of that butt, and tag me on Twitter, I will know. Okay? Like the all seeing Gorgon, I will know.
JULIA: Tag Spirits podcast on Twitter of that sweet butt.
AMANDA: Tag Spirits podcast and we will retweet that smooth tight butt.
JULIA: Same up for Instagram.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Share us in your Instagram stories. Anyway, so Perseus had gone through some rough stuff as a kid. He was the son of Zeus and had been cast into the sea and a chest with his mother.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: After his mother's husband had found out about the affair, basically. Weirdly, it wasn't an affair really. Like, Zeus just came in as a golden cloud and impregnated her and then her father found out about it and was like, "Ah, shit. I've heard this prophecy that my grandson is gonna kill me. I guess I'll have to just kill my daughter and her future grandchild."
AMANDA: Bet.
JULIA: So, he and his mother landed on the island of Seriphus, where he grew up. But the king there want to marry his mother, because she was young and hot, and, you know, hadn't been married before. So, in his mind, this meant that he would have to get rid of Perseus because he was sure that while Perseus was in the picture, he wouldn't be able to marry this woman. It was a very like, "I'm gonna marry this rich man and then send his kids to boarding school."
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: I'm just realizing this is the plot of Parent Trap. Anyway.
AMANDA: Instead of being like, "Hey, let's have a conversation. You know, an age appropriate but frank conversation about how families take all kinds of shapes and sizes, and there's lots of kind of love to go around."
JULIA: Exactly. Nope, not gonna do that. Just gonna send--
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: --him on a deadly quest instead.
AMANDA: Yeah. Mhmm.
JULIA: So, the king holds what is basically an engagement party, and as was the custom, every guest was expected to bring a gift. However, Perseus was poor and did not bring anything. And in his shame, he swore that he would bring the king a better gift than all that were there, whatever the king desired, and so the king tells him what he wishes for is the head of the Gorgon, Medusa.
AMANDA: No big deal.
JULIA: No big deal, that's an amazing gift and you said you want to get me one that's better than anyone here. So, head please. So, now, a quick flashback to our old Medusa episode because it's been a minute since we've done this. You might remember that Medusa in this period of Greek mythology had once been a priestess of Athena. However, Poseidon took interest in her raped her in the Temple of Athena, and as punishment for both defiling her temple and for breaking her vow to remain a virgin, Athena transformed Medusa into a hideous Gorgon with the ability to turn anything that met her gaze into stone. And before anyone gets on my case, yes, I've heard the versions where Athena did this as a gift or a way to protect Medusa and I call bullshit, because you'll see why shortly.
AMANDA: It's a really good episode, I highly suggest that you look into it.
JULIA: Yes. So, Perseus sets off on his deadly task, but he soon realizes that no one actually knows where the Gorgons live, much less how to kill them. So, in comes Athena, and kind of surprisingly, Hermes. So, Hermes tells him that he has to equip himself with the proper weaponry if he plans on killing Medusa, and guides him to where he might find it, which is the home of the Great Women. Hermes, at first, gives him a sword that cannot bend or break, no matter how hard the scales of the Gorgons were, which is a great gift. But then Perseus is like, "Well, man, this is a cool sword in all, but if I even look at her, I'll be dead in an instant. So, how good is the sword gonna be if I can't even look at her?" And Athena is like, "Aha," and she appears and she takes off this polished bronze shield from her breast and hands it to him and says, "Look into this when you attack the Gorgon. You will be able to see her in it as in a mirror and so avoid her deadly power."
AMANDA: Perfect.
JULIA: Perfect.
AMANDA: So good.
JULIA: Good plan, honestly.
AMANDA: Great plan.
JULIA: And so, with Hermes and Athena's help, he soon gained three more items that will help in his battle, winged sandals, a wallet that would always be the right size for whatever what it was that it was carrying.
AMANDA: That's a really good present.
JULIA: That is a really good present, and then a cap that would make the wearer invisible.
AMANDA: Also very useful.
JULIA: All three items, very good, very tight. Amanda, if you had to have any of these five items that Perseus got, which one would you pick?
AMANDA: The wallet, Julia.
JULIA: The wallet?
AMANDA: I'm notorious for being like, "Oh, all I'll need is some cash," or "All I'll need is a debit card," then that's, like, the one day that the pharmacy needs my health care card to, like, fill a prescription. Or the one time that I, like, took a flight and had to change airlines and had an airline credit card that could have gotten me a free rose and then I didn't have the credit card.
JULIA: I'm sorry.
AMANDA: Thank you.
JULIA: To be specific, when they say wallet, it's just like, bag of holding, basically. That's what this is.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am the stage manager mom. You know that I never grew out of myself. So, I have band-aids, I have Imodium, I have Tums, I have Lactaid, I have whatever you might need, band-aids, I got it. So, I would have a full pharmacy with me in my bag if I could.
JULIA: There have been several times when Amanda and I were at conventions where Amanda would just, like, be rummaging around in her bag and then pull out a banana and be like, "Do you want this?" I'm like, "I'm good, but what... what the fuck?"
AMANDA: You always need a travel banana. Listen, guys, so many times in life that you're hungry and you need a little bit of a snack and your tummy is feeling a little upset, you need a banana. That's what you need.
JULIA: I think I'd go for the winged sandals. Me, personally.
AMANDA: Bag of holding all the way.
JULIA: Okay, great. So, Hermes leads Perseus to the home of the Gorgons, and when he found Medusa, it was Athena that guided his hand with the beheading blow.
AMANDA: Again, Athena we could have really circumvented this... this whole scenario if you wanted to.
JULIA: If you had just not been, for lack of a better word, such a bitch about the whole Medusa thing.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: If you had been a little bit more understanding. So, Perseus then proceeds to on his way home save the Princess Andromeda, casually, marries her. So, then he returns back to the island and presents the head to the greedy king, who was killed the moment that he saw the head of Medusa because her powers still remained, even though she had been beheaded.
AMANDA: Perfection.
JULIA: So, Perseus then gives the head to Athena who bore it on her shield, and that became her symbol in battle.
AMANDA: There you go.
JULIA: There you go. That's why you'll often see Athena with the head of Medusa on her shield in artwork. Explained it. Explained it away.
AMANDA: Now, you know.
JULIA: Doodee, boopity. The more you know, but Athena wasn't just wars and battles and heroes, Amanda. She, like I mentioned before, was a great lover of crafts and artisans, which I love about her. It was said that she actually invented the flute, which is really cool, but when you hear why she invented the flute, it's a lot sadder. She was said to have invented it in order to imitate the sounds of the mourning and keening cries of the Gorgons after they saw the death of their sister, Medusa.
AMANDA: Ah, shit. I knew I shouldn't have chosen the flute. I just thought my arms were long enough for it.
JULIA: Yeah. I tried the flute, but my pinky was not long enough to get that little one all the way at the end.
AMANDA: I know. I really wanted to be a drummer, and then our music teacher said, "Girls can't drum." And I was like, "Excuse me?"
JULIA: Dude, same. Same.
AMANDA: I know. We both could have been percussion people, Julia.
JULIA: Me and my husband could have both been drummers. The world would have changed.
AMANDA: We should be the percussion gays we want to see in the world.
JULIA: I also remember them telling us that like, "Oh, you guys don't have the right tone or, like, you can't hear the pitch right. So, you can't be a drummer." I'm like, "That makes no fucking sense."
AMANDA: How about you teach us then?
JULIA: Yeah. It's... I know it's like an innate skill, but it is something you can hone and learn. But the fact that you guys are like, "Yeah, no. Since you don't know pitch, you can't drum." I'm like, "That makes zero sense. There's very little pitch in percussion instruments." I know some of them do, but like general, like, snare drum does not have a lot of pitch issues. Anyway, I just hate these music teachers that crushed our sixth grade dreams. How dare they?
AMANDA: I know, I know.
JULIA: So, Athena invented the flute. Very sad. Hate that.
AMANDA: Let's move on.
JULIA: She was also associated with handicraft and while Hephaestus was the god of smithing, the celebration of Chalkeia was a festival dedicated to both Athena and Hephaestus. It was hosted by Bronze-workers, which is an extremely cool way of, like, being like, "Ah, yes, the Bronze-workers get to hold the festival every year." Love that.
AMANDA: Love it.
JULIA: But it also focused heavily on weaving and functional artwork. So, an important aspect of this festival was the preparation of the sacred Peplos, which was a robed garment that was worn by Greek women. So, they would have this enormous robe that was weaved by the women of the city. Specifically, it was only weaved by virgin girls of marriageable age and older matrons.
AMANDA: That sounds like a tea party I want to attend. A bunch of spinsters and grandmas? I love that.
JULIA: Love that for us. And this sacred garment was then presented to Athena at her temple as an offering.
AMANDA: Fuck yeah, dude.
JULIA: It's like, giant robe, here you go, Athena.
AMANDA: I always want a giant robe. I'm also picturing it because the name is like a peplum cut robe, which I... I can't even... maybe like a two-tiered robe? I... I just... I'm loving it.
JULIA: It's possible. It's very possible,
AMANDA: I think Athena would be pro-union, you know? Really into trades, really to guilds.
JULIA: Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. No, I think she's totally into that. She's like, "Ah, yes, you're all coming together to learn a craft, and better it. Excellent."
AMANDA: You should have better wages.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: That... that'll be all.
JULIA: As long as you're not better than me, which we'll get to in the next story. So, Athena's association with weaving led to one of the more well-known stories in Greek mythology, which is the story of Arachne.
AMANDA: Yay, spider.
JULIA: So, Athena was admittedly a bit vain, as most gods were when it came to their skills in their respective fields. Like, you would never claim to be a better hunter than Artemis, nor would you claim to be more beautiful than Aphrodite, right?
AMANDA: Of course. First rule of being in the old times: don't claim to be better than a god.
JULIA: Exactly. As such, you would never ever claim to be a better weaver than Athena. So, you can imagine the fury that Athena felt when she heard that a shepherd's daughter had claimed that she could weave a more beautiful tapestry than even the goddess herself.
AMANDA: Oh. Oh, no.
JULIA: Nope. No good.
AMANDA: Oh, please don't.
JULIA: So, Arachne even refused to admit that her skill might have come from, in some form, Athena, as the patron of weaving and handicraft. She's like.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: No, I did this all myself.
AMANDA: That's such an easy out, be like, "Yes, I'm channeling you, the goddess."
JULIA: Yes. Speaking of easy out, Athena, not being able to let such a slight lie, actually appeared in the form of an old woman outside of Arachne's hut. So, she warned the girl giving her a chance to recant her claim, saying that you should never compare yourself to any of the gods and if she begged for forgiveness, maybe Athena might spare her.
AMANDA: Oh boy.
JULIA: But Arachne just laughed and said, "If Athena thought that her work was better than Arachne's own, that she should come down there and prove it."
AMANDA: Mhmm. That sounds like someone's gonna die.
JULIA: Huge dramatic reveal as Athena appears in her shimmering glory and took the shepherd's daughter up on her challenge. She's like, "That's me, Anastasia, actually Athena, fuck you."
AMANDA: I've been born... I've been waiting for this moment. I was born in the thread.
JULIA: Fuck you.
AMANDA: I got her. I got her, guys. Yeah.
JULIA: The two of them set up their looms and they began to weave in all colors of the rainbow, and in golds, in silvers, and metallics as well. And so, when Athena finished, she had created this marvelous tapestry, but Arachne had finished at the same moment. And assessing her work, Athena could find no fault in Arachne's tapestry, and it was clear that they were evenly matched in terms of skill.
AMANDA: Oh, damn.
JULIA: So, this only set to enrage Athena further and--
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: --as such, in her fury, she transformed Arachne into, as you mentioned before Amanda already, a spider.
AMANDA: There it is. Try to weave now. It comes from your butt.
JULIA: Yeah. Arachne as such still weaves to this day in her spider form, but she will never be able to surpass the goddess' skills ever again.
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: Yeah, that's... that's harsh. So, Amanda, these are the tales of Athena. I'm sure there are other ones, you know, and like the rest of the Greek gods, though they often portrayed Athena as much more level-headed than most, she is still prone to her fits of rage and jealousy and scorn, just like the rest of them. But I do think that she is one of the more interesting goddesses on Olympus, and the Greeks certainly thought highly of her when it came to her place in the greater mythology. And like I said, these certainly aren't all of her stories, but if you have a favorite, maybe we will tell it when we revisit her sometime in the future. Or maybe it'll be in another one if it's a... a crossover with another Greek god.
AMANDA: Well, Julia, I've enjoyed this so very much. So, thank you for the survey.
JULIA: It's my pleasure as always, and what do you think now of our... our girl-boss, Athena?
AMANDA: You know, I think, like any girl-boss, she doesn't always do a great job lifting up and defending the other women around her, see Medusa, but you know, she had some important accomplishments and some stand-out moments that I think we can all learn from and... and improve upon.
JULIA: Truly, truly. I think that if anything, Greek mythology does teach us lessons about how not to behave 90% of the time.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And I appreciate that about them.
AMANDA: Me too. Well, everybody remember, don't ever challenge a god to a weaving contest. And also.
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool. Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @spiritspodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a forum to send us in your urban legends, and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast for all kinds of behind-the-scenes goodies. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more like recipe cards with alcoholic and non-alcoholic for every single episode, director's commentaries, real physical gifts, and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye.
Transcribed by: John Matthew Sarong
Edited by: Krizia Marrie Casil