Episode 157: Ask Baba Yaga (with Taisia Kitaiskaia)

Have you ever wanted to ask your local forest witch a question? Enter “Ask Baba Yaga” and Taisia Kitaiskaia. We talk with the wonderful author about her process of channeling the Slavic folklore character, how she grew up with the story, AND one lucky Conspiriter gets their question answered by Baba Yaga!

This week, Julia recommends The Red Threads of Fortune by JY Yang. 

Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about heavy subjects like existentialism, abuse, Soviet Russia, loneliness, and death. 

Guest

- Taisia Kitaiskaia is the author of Ask Baba Yaga: Otherworldly Advice for Everyday Troubles and its forthcoming follow-up, Ask Baba Yaga: Otherworldly Advice for Troubled Times; Literary Witches: A Celebration of Magical Women Writers , a collaboration with artist Katy Horan, and the accompanying The Literary Witches Oracle; and a forthcoming book of poetry, The Nightgown and Other Poems (Deep Vellum). She posts a new "Ask Baba Yaga" piece weekly on Instagram. 

Sponsors

- Honeybook: A purpose-built business management platform for creative small businesses. Get 50% off your first year on HoneyBook.com/SPIRITS.

- Skillshare is an online learning community where you can learn—and teach—just about anything. Visit skillshare.com/spirits2 to get two months of Skillshare Premium for free! This week Amanda recommends “Happy Houseplants: Caring For Your Plants.”

- Doordash is a fast, convenient food delivery app. Get $5 off your first order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and enter promo code Spirits at checkout.

Find Us Online

If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. 

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Transcript

Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.

Julia: And I'm Julia.

Amanda: And this is episode 157: Ask Baba Yaga, with Taisia Kitaiskaia.

Julia: I am so excited for this episode. I feel like I say that every episode, but I'm genuinely very excited for this episode, because it's not very often that we get to talk to a folklore character.

Amanda: It is so exciting. Listen, we go into it in depth, but Ask Baba Yaga is one of those beautiful phenomena of the internet that I have been enjoying for my whole... From college onward. It feels like my whole adult life.

Julia: I can tell you were very excited as you recorded this episode.

Amanda: And we even had Baba Yaga herself, AKA Taisia, give an answer to a problem that a Spirits listener was facing. So this is a good one y'all.

Julia: Yes, definitely stick around, because it's the last thing we do in the episode, and it is worth everything.

Amanda: You know who else is worth everything, Julia?

Julia: Is it our new Patrons?

Amanda: Our new patrons, and there are so many to thank. Charlotte, Kylo the Husky, Ian, Jessica, Aaron and Tila. Her amazing wonder daughter, hi Tila. Ian F., Megan Linger, and Megan Rubenstein.

Yes, and they join the ranks of our wonderful, amazing supporting producer level Patrons, Philip, Tasha, Debra, Molly, Megan, Skyla, Sammy, Josie, Neil, Jessica, and Phil Fresh.

And our legend level Patrons, who may or may not walk around the forest on chicken feet. Hannah, Morgan, Emily, James, BM Me Up Scotty, Audra, Chris, Mark, Cody, Mr. Folk, Sarah, and Jack Marie.

Julia: Who's to say? Maybe they walk backwards into the forest on those chicken legs.

Amanda: Holding cocktails, like the one we enjoyed for this episode.

Julia: Ha ha, yes. So for this one, since Baba Yaga is very much a forest spirit, I recommend making a Forest for the Tree. It's a cocktail made with this Dutch liquor, similar to gin called Bols Genever. It's super botanical, though honestly, you could probably sub it in with a super botanical gin if your local liquor store doesn't sell it. I understand, it's not super popular as a liquor. And then you infuse that liquor with Douglas fir tea, and then you use vermouth and green chartreuse and it's this herbal and piney flavor, and it feels like you're walking through a pine forest in Russia and it's great.

Amanda: Truly delectable.

Julia: I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Amanda: Speaking of which, Julia, your taste in cocktails is just so good. Please tell me what else you recommend that the conspirators and I listen to, watch, or read this week?

Julia: I'm about three quarters of the way through a new book, and you know how much I love a good new book.

Amanda: I do.

Julia: This time around, it is The Red Threads of Fortune by JY Yang. It's basically a fantasy novel that is based on Eastern Asia, and it deals with psychological trauma and recovery, and also there's dinosaurs and naga. And it's basically like if Avatar: The Last Airbender were queerer and more skewed towards an adult audience.

Amanda: Absolutely incredible, and just the thing that I need in 2019.

Julia: I know it's great. It's really, really solid. And there's a sequel, so if you finish this one very quickly and then you're like, "I need more," don't worry, there's another one.

Amanda: I love that. And I know both of us, Julia, saw Knives Out this weekend, as did editor Eric.

Julia: We did.

Amanda: So we absolutely have to give a plug there. I hope you have heard about it. A la the sweater, a la the wonderful sociopolitical context in which it's happening. A la just being a wonderful murder mystery. Go see Knives Out. It's great.

Julia: Oh, I should've made that my recommendation then saved The Red Threads of Fortune for later, dang it.

Amanda: Well, instead you get a double.

Julia: That's good, yeah. I do like a double.

Amanda: And talking about double, triple, quadruple threats, I just wanted to give a quick plug here to Head Heart Gut. So this is the members only podcast that we make for our MultiCrew every dang week. It is a debate show, so we debate things that are silly, things that are serious. We basically put way too much effort, concentration, and structure into debating stuff from pop culture and the world around us. And this month, Julia, that's cutlery. Team Join the Party is arguing what is best, fork, knife, or spoon?

Julia: Wow.

Amanda: Which were assigned to us by editor Eric based on our personalities.

Julia: And what did you get, bud?

Amanda: I got the knife.

Julia: Correct.

Amanda: No, Eric Silver opted for hard mode, which was the fork. Brandon got the spoon because we all agree that Tracy is definitely a spoon. Brandon's giving me some high fives from outside the window, raising the roof as it were, because spoon hands. It's a wonderful month, it's a wonderful edition of Head, Heart, Gut, so it's a great month to join.

Julia: Yes. Also, Eric Schneider recently told me what the next one is going to be. And while we'll keep it secret for now, I'm very excited and we're already arguing about it in the group chat that we started for it.

Amanda: Yes, that is something that MultiCrew motivator and Magnificence members get to vote on. So there's three tiers, and the top two tiers get to vote on what topics we do for Head, Heart, Gut in the future. So it's really by, for, and completely dedicated to our MultiCrew members. So if you want to check out Head, Heart, Gut, join the MultiCrew, get some exclusive merch, some glitter pins, that's at MultiCrew.club.

Julia: It's really worth joining, honestly. We put our heart and souls, and also heads and guts into each episode that we make.

Amanda: Sure do.

Julia: And it's fantastic.

Amanda: As is this episode of Spirits. So without further ado, enjoy episode 157: Ask Baba Yaga with Taisia Kitaiskaia.

We are so excited to welcome Taisia Kitaiskaia, who is a writer of The Nightgown and Other Poems coming out next year, Literary Witches from 2017, and one, soon to be two books called Ask Baba Yaga. I am so stoked to have her here, I've been reading her work for five or six years. The Ask Baba Yaga column on The Hairpin, it's amazing. You will see why I am so obsessed with this, with this column. So Tiasia, welcome.

Taisia: Hello.

Julia: Welcome, thank you so much for joining us. I know Amanda is extremely excited, and while I'm not as familiar with your work I am also just... I was sold on just the name of it itself.

Taisia: Oh, yeah. Well, it's so fun when people read the column back in the day.

Amanda: So, Ask Baba Yaga is absolutely wonderful. It has a very specific voice, a specific grammar, a specific look. So Taisia, could you give us a sample of what that sounds and looks like?

Taisia: Yes, so this is a piece that I recently posted on Instagram. And the question is, "Dear Baba Yaga, the dying always say that all that matters is love, the love they've shared with other people. But I'm an introvert, and while I truly love my family and friends, I prefer to spend most of my time alone or with my pet. Will I regret not spending more time with my loved ones, or is there more to life than other people?"

And Baba Yaga says, "Humans are just another pumpkin in the patch among insect pumpkins, rat pumpkins, thought pumpkins, God pumpkins, whale pumpkins. To be happy you must love some things, any things, with all your pumpkin cells until they glow out. And if this is so, you will not regret your time in the garden."

Julia: I'm just going to cry now. It's fine.

Amanda: Do you guys see why I'm so obsessed with this?

Taisia: We all are pumpkins.

Julia: I love that. We are, we're all pumpkins.

Amanda: I can hear what I know to be the grammar, which is like YR for your. How did you get to the appearance and grammar of the Baba Yaga column?

Taisia: Yeah, I just felt like Baba would have her own style and her own way of writing things. YR works for her, I like it because it looks spiky to me and irreverent. A lot of people get angry about the way this is laid, out and that it's kind of-

Julia: Well, clearly they don't get it.

Taisia: They don't get it man. But I remember one person being like, "Yeah, so I guess Baba's just like an internet troll with her YR." That was funny.

Julia: Oh yeah, that was definitely how it works.

Amanda: I mean, yeah. But also no.

Taisia: Right, she is an internet troll of the best kind. And I like the punctuation too, because there's a lot of semicolons and and colons and weirdly placed commas. And those I think, they create natural breaks. Because in a way these are poems, but there's no line breaks. So I think they create pauses, and they also to me suggest this landscape of bones. So in Baba's hut, it's surrounded by this fence that has skulls on posts. Human skulls.

Amanda: Oh my God. So good.

Taisia: Yeah. And she eats a lot of people and other things, so there's bones kind of scattered about.

Amanda: And it's the anti white picket fence. It's the bone fence.

Taisia: That's true. Yes, Baba is the anti WASP for sure.

Amanda: But Taisia, I would love to hear a little bit from you about Baga Yaga and her place in your life. Maybe starting with her as a literary trope, and then a bit more about your kind of folkloric and mythological upbringing.

Taisia: So my family is from Siberia, the Irkutsk region, which is by Mongolia. It's around this huge Lake called Lake Baikal. So that's where we were all born, and then we came to America when I was five. So my earliest memories are being around this Lake and this really dense forest during the summers. Because most Russians have a dacha, a summer house. Even if you're poor, this was still in the Soviet Union, so everyone's poor. Yeah, so we would go and hang out in this forest every summer. And I just had this really strong sense that baba Yaga was in the woods. And I must have heard stories about her, and then certainly since then I've absorbed specific tails. But she was a very strong figure back then. So Baba Yaga for people who don't know is this Slavic folklore being who's a witch. She's an old crone, and she lives in a chicken legged hut. I'm so hut with chicken legs.

Amanda: Iconic.

Taisia: Yeah, big thick chicken legs.

Amanda: Such an aesthetic.

Taisia: Yes. And they kind of move around at will

Amanda: So scary, such a dinosaur.

Taisia: I know, yeah. Chickens are a big deal, I feel like in folklore. So this is the ultimate chicken. So yes, so she lives in this hut that moves around. You can tell that if you call upon the hut in the woods, you can tell it to turn around. And there's a certain phrase that you say, it's like "Chicken hut, turn around, show me your gate and turn your back to the forest." Yeah. But it also like... In different interpretations of Baba Yaga, there's really wonderful animations for children about her. Like the hut gets a mind of its own and runs away. So the figure herself, she's often depicted as very ugly, and she's very ambiguous. So she's morally ambiguous, and that's what I love about her.

And some of the stories, she's absolutely the villain and she's trying to eat everybody who comes to her hut, or she'll find you and try to eat you. And then in some of the stories she's the donor and the gift giver, and the teller of advice. And she'll give you a special, magical object to get you through. And many stories, she's both. Like you'll come to her hut, she'll try to eat you. She'd be like, "Okay, let's just get ready, we'll bathe you and then eat you." And then you're like, "No, give me a bed, give me food." And she's like, "Alright." And then she'll just change her mind.

Amanda: Very polite.

Taisia: I know. She's very unpredictable, so I love that about her. And she's kind of like, I feel like it does things on a whim. So that's where the idea of the com came from, is that being able to come to her hut with your burning questions. Something that's worth laying down your life for, and risking being eaten. And her in this moment being the good Baba and helping you out.

Amanda: I love that. Is there any sort of advice for how not to get eaten by Her? Is there a way you're supposed to act? Or is it just being honest or distracting her? What's the fairy tale logic?

Taisia: Yeah, I think in some of the tales, she puts you through a test. So you'll have to clean her her house, make a feast for her in an impossible amount of time. And the protagonist ends up using everything they have at their disposal. Their kindness, their creativity, special magical objects like a doll that will come alive and help you out. The kindness comes in when... There's different beings and creatures in the house, like her cat and her gate and the pot. And if you take care of them, if you grease the pot and you feed the cat you oil the hinges of the gate, they'll come to your aid and make things go easily for you and your tasks for Baba.

Amanda: I love that.

Taisia: So I think some of it is just being a good person, and some of it is being tricky. But I think the way that I feel about the questions that I get for the column and the books now is, are you sincere? Are you coming to this with something that is really weighing on you, and that you've really reached the end of your powers and now you have to bring it to something divine that knows more than all of us? So not something that you can just like talk about with a friend.

Amanda: Yeah. You're not like asking for the easy way out.

Taisia: Right, yeah. And you have to be ready to hear the harsh truth. The stereotype is that Russians are harsh, and if you meet my parents, you'll know that it's true. And Baba is the harshest, she doesn't give a fuck. She's in the woods, she's hanging out with dragons and mushrooms and stuff. So she doesn't really have time for you.

Amanda: She doesn't need you.

Taisia: She doesn't need you. Yeah, she will just bestow her wisdom on you if she feels like it.

Amanda: I love that so much. I love a fickle God, you know?

Taisia: I know, it's so fun.

Amanda: So what are your headcanons about Baba Yaga? Where do you go? What is the perspective you come at when you answer people's questions in the voice of Baba Yaga, which is Ask Baba Yaga?

Taisia: Yeah, so I guess we haven't really described what it looks like. It's a short question, and then a paragraph long response from Baba. And her responses are littered with punctuation marks that are wild and sometimes misspellings. And she has her own grammar. So the perspective that I take, I guess I really... I feel different things about how I access the voice of Baba at different times. Sometimes I feel like it's just a literary persona, and then sometimes I feel like I'm really channeling this really ancient figure and the collective unconscious. And sometimes I feel like I'm somewhat possessed, but in a fun way. Like you would carry a character around with you, and they just start to have a life of their own.

So I really just... When I get a question, I usually have my human response to the question. Like, "Oh boy," or like, "Oh, you should really do this." I have my own little pedestrian responses. And then I wait for... I put those aside and I wait for Baba's voice to come in with her particular language. Once I feel her language come in and her images start to settle in and they surprise me, that's when I know that I'm answering from something else that's not just me.

Amanda: I love that so much.

Julia: Yeah, that's incredible. And it really reminds me, just because my background is very much ancient history and religion thereof. It very much reminds me of like the channeling of gods and goddesses through priestesses and ritual and stuff like that. And it's so fascinating to see that in the modern culture. And the way that you describe it is so ancient, but also modern at the same time. It brings me such joy to hear you talk about it like that.

Taisia: No, I was just going to say... So I was aware of Baba as very small child, but then she came to me in my modern life and as an adult in a mystical way. Because she's a character in a play that I was writing, this is 2013. And I did an interview with her in my notebook, asking her questions about what she liked to eat and where she lived and what her house was like. And then so it was kind of like an automatic writing exercise. Then she started in her answers that I was writing down, she started asking me questions. She didn't want to answer any of my questions, she was like, "Alright Taisia, what's up with you? We're all worried about you here in the forest." And then I heard this clang thing in my oven, and I was like, "Oh Baba."

Because she's such a domestic creature. She's a forest witch, but also her hut is a big deal. And everything that goes on in her kitchen is very much a part of her kitchen witch magic too. So I was like, "Oh, she's here." And it was a little spooky, it was the middle of the afternoon. Hot Texas summer, dark inside trying to keep the sun out. And then I was like, "This is spooky." And I told one of my friends about it, the playwright, Eva Suter. And Eva was like, "You know what? I would love to get advice from Baba Yaga. You should start canvasing questions." So that's what I did, and then it got on the hairpin.

Amanda: Oh, that's so amazing. Speaking of domestic ritual, is there something that you do or smell or any physical rituals that you do before writing as Baba Yaga?

Taisia: Yeah, I do actually. I didn't do this before, but as I've... I'm not a true practicing witch, but I know people who are. And as I got deeper into Witchery and just learned more about it. And encounter people who actually work with magic, I'm just like, "Oh, this shit is really real." And I don't want to... I get more protective of this portal that I'm opening and closing, however you want to think about it. So I do have some sage, and I have some Palo Santo. And I'll usually burn one or the other and make a protective circle around me and my typewriter, which is where I do the Baba questions and answers. Because she doesn't like technology, so I have to keep it chill with the typewriter. Yeah, so that's what I do.

Amanda: That's so amazing. And you actually answered a question from a Spirits listener, which we're going to get to at the end of the episode that I am beyond stoked to hear.

Julia, the first of the month has new significance to me. Not just as the beginning of the month in your planner. And remember in high school, we used to try to like say the first word of our month? Do you ever do that, where it's like, "Oh my first hello of the month?"

Julia: Oh no I didn't. I know the the old like folklore tradition of saying, "White rabbit, white rabbit, white rabbit," when you first wake up on the first day of the month. It's like good luck or whatever.

Amanda: Well, the adult version of that in my life is, I have to send so many invoices on the first of the month. I have to invoice all of our sponsors, I have to pay all our moderators and transcribers and studio technicians. And it makes it really simple when I use HoneyBook for that. Otherwise I would be in giant spreadsheets tracking dozens and dozens and dozens of payments, and I'm not about that life. Honeybook is an online business management tool that organizes client communications, bookings, contracts and invoices all in one place. Whether you're a freelancer or entrepreneur or small business owner, it is going to be helpful to you, and integrate with services you already use like QuickBooks, Google suite and Excel.

It can help you automate your busy work with templates and all kinds of other ways to help automate busy work, and help you get back to what you actually want to do, which is your business. And right now, HoneyBook is offering our listeners half off, 50% off when you visit honeybook.com/spirits. That applies to both monthly and annual plans at honeybook.com/spirits.

Julia: Yep, that's 50% off your first year by going to honeybook.com/spirits. Now, Amanda, I know that you've got such skills being our CEO and amazing person all around.

Amanda: Thanks.

Julia: But I know you're also always trying to learn something new. So tell me, what'd you learn new this month from Skillshare?

Amanda: I learned Julia, some things I never knew about caring for plants. Because I thought to myself, "Wait, what if Skillshare had courses about plants?" And sure enough, they do. So this week, I am recommending happy houseplants, caring for your plants. And listen, we inherited a lot of wisdom from our parents and grandparents. I've Googled some things about different specific kinds of plants, but it was really helpful to have a refresher on like, "Yeah, if in doubt just don't water them." You have to clean your plants leaves, which you are going to hear all about later on in this episode.

So it was really helpful for me, because this year for the holidays I am propagating and giving out little cuttings from my plants in an effort to be more sustainable, create less waste and save a little bit of money this holiday season.

Julia: That's extremely sweet. And also this is one of over 25,000 classes that you can take at Skillshare in order to fuel your curiosity, your creativity and career. If you're not taking classes about plants like Amanda is, you could take classes in social media, marketing, mobile photography, creative writing, even illustration and so, so much more.

Amanda: And you can get Skillshare Premium for two months completely for free at skillshare.com/Spirits2. That's Spirits, and then number two. So get unlimited access to all 25,000 plus of their classes for free at skillshare.com/spirits2.

Julia: Yep. That's skillshare.com/spirits2. Amanda, I'm in a bit of a tricky situation right now, because I currently have my cousin staying with me as he finishes up his classes for college for the semester. And he arrived last night after taking his exams extremely hungry, and Jake and I usually only cook for two so what did I do? I pulled up my DoorDash app and I ordered some more food.

Amanda: Wow, you are such a provider without needing to do much of the providing.

Julia: Yeah, listen, I do what I can. Last minute, DoorDash is perfect for that. And DoorDash connects you to your favorite restaurants in your city. Ordering is super easy. Like I said, all you got to do is open up that DoorDash app, and there are over 340,000 restaurants in 3,300 cities. So you can find a new favorite to try something new. Try that Thai place that you just haven't gotten to yet. They probably have some really good curry.

Amanda: Try that fried chicken sandwich at the fast food chain of your choice.

Julia: Yeah. And the best part is, with their door to door delivery it's in all 50 States and in Canada. You can order your local go-tos, or you can go to your favorite national chains like Chipotle, or if you're Amanda, The Cheesecake Factory every single time.

Amanda: That's me.

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Amanda: That's the promo code Spirits for $5 off your first order of $15 or more when you download DoorDash from the app store.

Julia: Yep. And don't forget, that is promo code Spirits for $5 off your first order from DoorDash.

Amanda: And now let's get back to the show.

I do also want to ask, are there any themes, moments, aspects of the mythology of Baba Yaga? Or what do you think of her as a kid, and learning a little bit more about your version of her, or the version of her that you grew up with?

Taisia: Yeah, I think what I liked about her as a kid is, she was definitely scary. But she so was very independent, and I love that she was alone. She was alone in the woods doing her own thing, having her own imaginative eternal life there, which is my dream for life, for myself. Even though I'm also a normal person, I'm married, I have friends, I love to live in a city. But there's something about that image of an old woman who doesn't give a fuck in the woods, who is interacting with animals and flying around in a mortar and pestle. Like a mortar and pestle that you would grind herbs in. She's sitting in the mortar and moving around with the pestle, and sweeping... If she's ever on the ground, sometimes she'll drag along the ground. She'll sweep her tracks up with a broom, because she wants to remain elusive and you can't track her down.

Amanda: Ah, the dream.

Taisia: Yes.

Amanda: I haven't bought a mortar and pestle yet for my kitchen, and I feel like part of the reason why is because I just want it to be perfect and like she would use, and I need to have an extremely witchy one.

Julia: I requested one for my wedding registry, and no one bought it for me and I'm forever upset.

Amanda: Alright Julia, we have to get a matching set then instead that's what we have to do.

Julia: Well no, we're still going to get spirits tattoos.

Amanda: Okay, okay.

Julia: But we can also get matching-

Amanda: That'll be our four year anniversary gift.

Julia: Cool, sounds good.

Taisia: Yeah, so she's like... Part of that thing of sweeping up her trail is, she's so hard to pin down. And I love that about her too, I think she's a true feminist figure. And part of the reclaim the witch movement, where feminists have started to see the witch as this figure of empowerment and creativity, and independence from relationships. So many of the other female archetypes are defined by men and children, but she's just her own being, and she's defined by her creativity and her ability to change the world. And make it magical and delightful for herself I think even as a child like that, it held an appeal to me, and she's only become more important to me over time as an aspirational figure really.

Amanda: Yeah. From the sort of silliest aspects of, "You don't know where I live. I can invite you over, but that doesn't mean you can come and drop by anytime." That appeals to me so much, but also the idea that she isn't good or bad, she's her own person. You have to treat her like a person, and not just a vending machine of good or bad consequences, which is how a lot of archetypal figures feel to me sometimes in fairy tales.

Taisia: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and the villainous aspects of her, I think... there's scholars who study her, and I'm not a scholar. But what I've picked up and what I suspect is that she used to be perhaps more of a positive figure. There's some evidence that she was a Slavic deity, like a goddess of death and the forest, or a goddess of wisdom. And I think maybe with Christianity and with a more patriarchal society, she became more of this fearsome, cannibalistic, ugly hateful thing. But it's not hard to dig behind that, and the stories do have her being this wise gift giver.

Amanda: Totally. And what was the boogeyman rules to her? If you did something bad, if you like went off unsupervised? If you encountered her, is there something you were supposed to do to stay safe as a kid?

Taisia: Right, yeah. It would really have to do with going into the woods, or it would also be like a trial. Sometimes you go into the woods by yourself, but often you'd be looking for something, or you'd be sent by somebody. There's a lot of stepmother stories that are common in fairy tales all over the world. Like an evil stepmother sending her stepdaughter out to basically die in the woods. And then the stepdaughter finds Baba Yaga, and that's not where her troubles end. She still has to go through the tests, or outsmart Baba. And at that point, Baba can be villainous or good. But yeah, I think you have to get lost, I think that's one of the things. And then if you can make it out alive is up to you, and up to chance and how Baba is feeling too.

Amanda: I like that. I liked that being lost is a part of her narrative. Because it implies that you're having to let go of the society around you in order to experience her. And that fits with all of her stuff about hiding her trails, and being a forest spirit and being like in the dark parts of the woods. I love when all mythology adds up together, it's one of my favorite things.

Taisia: Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah. And the advice angle here is so clear. I think this is such a natural pairing, because you do sometimes... It feels like you are completely lost in whatever problem or hardship you're facing when you turn to someone for help. And from the qualities described earlier of what a good question is for your column and your books, it sounds like truly being lost in the woods is the place that you work the best.

Taisia: Mm-hmm (affirmative). No, it just occurred to me. There's a couple of other special characteristics about Baba that I think are worth noting. One is, she is the only witch in mythology, world mythology who has a name. She's a really distinct personality. And the other thing is that perhaps because Russia... And she's not just a Russian witch, she's present in Ukrainian, Belorussian and also West Slavic folklore. But Eastern Europe is far flung out there, especially once you get out to Siberia, where she also has a presence. Perhaps because of that, and perhaps because of Christianity coming late to the Slavs, it was in the 1100s that Kievan, ancient Rus converted to Christianity.

There's still a lot of pagan beliefs that are very much alive in Russian and Slavic culture to this day. I think Baba Yaga has always been a mythological figure, rather than someone that people believed in as being like a real spirit. But that's debatable, but there's definitely other spirits that people do believe in to this day. There's the domovoy, which is the spirit of the house. Who you have to appease in certain ways. And then there's the leshi, which is a spirit of the forest. It's like when things go wrong or when you're lost, he can be good and bad too. And then there's the bannik, which is a spirit of the banya, like the sauna.

Amanda: That's actually one of the ones I'm not super familiar with. Could you give me a little bit more information about that one?

Taisia: Yeah, it's just like another... It's like the domovoy of the banya. I forget what the spirit does, but I think it's like... If things go wrong or right, you can blame them on the bannik.

Amanda: Interesting.

Taisia: Yeah. Little furry creature. That's something that I enjoy about Russian culture to this day. I haven't been back to Russia since I was a kid, but just how it lives through my family and friends. This pagan world of otherworldly beings is still very much alive.

Amanda: Yeah, I really feels so vibrant, like a part of society that you might not see all the time. But has rules, codes, norms, jokes and all that kind of stuff. A lot of humor to me as an outsider, is what marks Russian folklore. Which might sound a little bit, I don't know, discordant, but that really is the impression I get.

Taisia: No, I think that's totally true, and that's why I enjoy it so much. I think Baba is very funny as a character. I think some of the pieces are funny, or she can just get angry and salty and speak in that way, then she can also be very serious. A lot of the questions that I've gotten, I really have he actually, and they'd be too much for me as just a mortal person to address. Which is why it's nice to have Baba come in with all her immortal, mythological wisdom and tell us how it is.

Amanda: Yeah. Have you ever felt tempted to bring a problem of your own, or tried to consult her for personal wisdom?

Taisia: Yeah, I have brought a couple of my problems to her. And there's one or two in the first book, I'll let you guess which ones. But-

Amanda: No spoilers.

Taisia: Yeah, no. I think really, I grew up without any religion. I think I'm one of the only one among my friends who didn't have some kind of Christianity or other religion in their background. And I think it's helped me a lot in life, I feel like most people these days have to work through to get rid of some of the harm of those organized religions. But for me, it's more just about growing this pagan world that did surround me. And I really think of Baba as like... If she was a deity, she would be fantastic. I would love to worship and commune with Baba, which I guess I do.

Amanda: I know, I think that definitely qualifies.

Taisia: Yeah.

Amanda: Well, I think this is a perfect time for us to hear about one of the problems that our Spirits listener would bring to Baba Yaga, and hear what she has to say.

Taisia: Yes, okay. So this was a question by Julia Rose O'Hara, Twitter handle @JujRose. This is a more lighthearted question, and it's a practical one which I love to throw Baba a very specific practical question once in a while and see what happens. So Julia asked, "Dear Baba Yaga, how can I keep my plants alive? Nothing seems to work." I think this is a common problem. Alright. So Baba Yaga says,

"Did you know yr plants are wise gnomes, scheming of climbing over castle walls to overthrow monarchies ? :Their minds have spires & chambers ,they speak in many tongues, receiving love notes from the sun & sending nasty ones to certain detested rabbits. They are sometimes Lusty, brooding , always philosophical. . They are Earth, animate. How can you please them if you ignore their true beings? ; Listen close , may-be they do not wish to live in yr house at all." No, it's so good.

Julia: It's really, really great. I love that so much.

Amanda: Oh, that's so wonderful.

Julia: I want my plans to be lusty gnomes personally.

Taisia: Well, I think they are.

Julia: I'm only able to keep anything alive via one of those hydroponic systems, otherwise everything dies.

Amanda: Listening to your plants is a very good piece of advice. It's very practical.

Taisia: Yeah, what are their hopes and dreams? What are their views of the universe?

Julia: Maybe they want to be outside?

Amanda: Yeah, totally. Maybe they want to kick this bucket and be reincarnated somewhere else?

Taisia: Yeah. Maybe they had a lover in the greenhouse, and then you took them from their lover. That's fucked up. No. Once you start thinking about it, it gets really heavy.

Julia: Oh man. It makes me very concerned for the warren of rabbits that live in my backyard.

Amanda: I know, but you're not going to Watership Down them. They have their own society, you're not going to mess with it.

Julia: No, no. They've ruled my backyard, they have free reign compared to me.

Amanda: I can't think of a better note to end on, as I stare out of the studio window at my jungle of plants here in the office. I'm going to listen to them for a little bit.

Julia: You should go ask and see if they want to go for a walk or something Amanda.

Amanda: They do look pretty lusty, they have a lot of tendrils.

Julia: They do.

Taisia: Yeah. Put them on a wagon, you know? Take them for a spin around the neighborhood.

Julia: That's what I'm saying. We had the park right down the street, they would love it.

Amanda: They love being misted, that's been my plant care tip. My grandma was like, "Mandy, you got to miss them every day." I was like, "Oh, oh god, I didn't know that." So I give them a little spritz in the morning when I come into work, and they love being wet. They're very lusty.

Taisia: This is very erotic, yeah.

Julia: Oh yeah, we're fully there. Amanda the other day was watering the plants, and I watch her slowly rub each leaf down. I'm like, "Whatcha doing bud?" She's like, "If they get dirty, they can't get the sun."

Amanda: Well we did a lot of construction in the office, I don't do this every time I water my plants. There would be hundreds of leaves.

Julia: Okay, sure.

Amanda: But I had to clean off the giant monstera leaves, because there was plaster dust on them, and then they can't photosynthesize Julia. You wouldn't want that?

Julia: No, we would never want that.

Taisia: Well, I listened to a podcast about... An episode about Jenny Slate. And she has a long thing about her plants, and how she has all these houseplants that she takes care of. And it's an important thing for her to be grounded and in touch with life. And she made the point that if you can keep your plants alive, there's something going right with you spiritually.

Julia: Ooh, that's a good point.

Taisia: Yeah. I think Jenny Slate might be a witch. I think it's only a matter of time.

Julia: Oh, like 80% likely I feel like.

Taisia: Yeah.

Amanda: She is definitely some kind of deity.

Taisia: Absolutely.

Amanda: Taisia, thank you so much for joining us, and telling us all about your process and your Baba Yaga. Can you let everybody know where they can get your books or follow you online?

Taisia: Yes. So you can follow me @Taisia.Kitaiskaia. And I know no one knows what that's spelled like, so it'll be in the show notes I imagine.

Amanda: It will.

Julia: Yep.

Taisia: You can find my books wherever books are sold. Try your local bookstore. And I have an Oracle deck too for my Oracle and Tarot people. It's based on my book Literary Witches, and it has portraits of women authors throughout time as a guidance for your spiritual life.

Julia: Oh, I love that.

Taisia: And yeah, so on my Instagram @Taisia.Kitaiskaia, I post a weekly ask Baba Yaga piece to start building towards my book, which will be out in fall 2020. And that will be the second Baba book, and it's called ask Baba Yaga: Poetic Remedies for Troubled Times.

Amanda: We need it.

Taisia: Yeah, we do need it. We need the Baba.

Amanda: Always meet Baba. Taisia, thank you so much.

Taisia: Thank you guys so much.

Amanda: And listeners remember, stay creepy, stay cool.