Episode 207: Advice from Folklore (with Moiya McTier)
/It’s time to turn to the gods for some divine advice. We welcome Moiya McTier back to the show to channel the gods like the oracles of old and answer questions about long distance relationships, working from home, and keeping your plants alive!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of Covid-19, drug use, self-mutilation, debt, sex, mental health, and relationship problems.
Guest
Moiya McTier is a New York-based astrophysicist who studies planets outside of our solar system. She’s also a folklorist who specializes in using science and logic to build fictional worlds. You can hear all about the worlds she’s built on her podcast, Exolore, where she imagines, discusses, and reviews fictional worlds, often with expert guests. You can learn more about Moiya and her work on her website, moiyamctier.com.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends the What We Do in the Shadows TV show. Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
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Transcript
Julia: Welcome to Spirits podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Julia. You'll hear from Amanda later. And this is Episode 207: Advice from Folklore with Moiya McTier. I'm really, really stoked about this one. I think this might be a new segment on the show. If you like it, let us know. We really would love to continue it, but we also value your feedback. We also really value and appreciate our newest patrons; Tom, Robert, Neal, Tiana, Ellexis, Z, Nanna, and Madeleine, as well as our supporting producer level patrons; Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Debra, Hannah, Jen, Jessica, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Landon, Liz, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Polly, Riley, Sarah, Skyla, and The Campy Vamp, as well as our legend level patrons; Audra, Chelsea, Drew, Frances, Jack Marie, Ki, Lada, Livie, Mark, Morgan, Necrofancy, Renegade, and Bea Me Up Scotty. I could give you advice from the gods all the time, but you're already doing great. So, thank you. We really appreciate it. Patreon is the way that we support this show. And you all let us do the thing that we'd love to do. And we appreciate that. I also appreciate that, usually during this intro, this is where Amanda asks what I am watching, listening to, and reading lately. And the answer is the What We Do in the Shadows TV show. It is extremely good. I loved the movie when I saw it a couple of years ago. And I've been putting off the TV show for whatever reason, not exactly sure why. But, oh, my god, it is incredible. You need to be watching it. I'm pretty sure you can watch it on Hulu. We just finished the second season and it was great. It's funny. It's spooky. It's wonderful. It's everything you would expect us on the show to love. Speaking of creepy and funny and things that you can do while you're safely social distancing at home, check out our newest piece of merch, the Cool Cryptid Compendium. It is a joint venture between myself and Eric Silver from Join the Party. And it takes 20 creatures from mythology, legends, and folklore and shows you ways of putting them into your tabletop RPG game, not just as creatures to fight but also creatures to interact with, creatures that you can become friends with, creatures that you could – I don't know – have a familiar with. It's a lot of fun. I really, really think Eric did a fantastic job designing these for any sort of gameplay. And you can find that at our merch store, which is spiritspodcast.com/merch. We also have upcoming and previous live shows for sale and streaming on our website. You can check out the Potterless live show on December 3rd and grab a video-on-demand copy of the Spirits live show or Multitude live. Go to multitude.productions/live for access to our past shows and to get tickets for Potterless live on December 3rd. Check it out. It's gonna be fun. Anyway, we are really excited to have Moiya on again and to talk about ways that the gods could give you advice. And, now, please enjoy Episode 207: Advice from Folklore with Moiya McTier.
Intro Music
Julia: So, 2020 has been pretty much a disaster for all of us I feel like. And I have felt as though I've needed a lot of advice. And, luckily, you know, like, I have a therapist. I, you know, can get, like, stress management and anxiety management skills and stuff like that. But, sometimes, some questions are just so essential and so, like, necessary to get more divine help that I feel like we have created the perfect episode for that. And what we are going to be doing is we are going to be asking mythological figures for some advice on our modern day problems. And, thankfully, we are not alone in that because we have invited on a guest, Moiya McTier of the incredible new podcast here on Multitude, Exolore. Moiya, hey, it's great to have you back.
Moiya: Hello. It's so good to be back. I'm shimmying. I had to tell you that because this isn't video. But thanks for having me.
Julia: I am so excited because we are going to answer a bunch of questions that have been submitted by our listeners. And we have a, let’s say, channel with the gods. We have asked the divinities --
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: -- whether or not these questions can be answered and how best to be answered. And I think we're, like, really living up to the oracles of old here --
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: -- by being able to give you some answers that we think the gods would provide.
Moiya: Yeah, I've had a great time this week being a conduit for divine wisdom.
Julia: Haaa.
Moiya: I feel like I'm glowing from the inside out because of it.
Julia: Yeah. And we have to take less drugs than the Oracle of Delphi and that's important.
Moiya: Maybe you do.
Julia: Okay. Fair.
Amanda: I feel like this is something a lot of us do just in the back of our minds or solo, you know, or just, like, in our own introspection in the bath in the middle of the night, et cetera.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: You sort of think, you know, I am – I'm grasping for examples here. I am grasping for advice. Like, what would somebody that I admire or, at , somebody with a strong opinion, do in the situation. And I love the idea that we can be conduits exactly for the gods in helping the conspirators with quandaries in this moment.
Moiya: Ooh.
Julia: Ooh. Very, very fancy. I also like the idea of late night baths, Amanda. You've now put that in my head and it's all I could think about.
Amanda: I have not – I have taken a bath almost every day in quarantine, but I have not done one in the middle of the night yet. But I feel like that's – you know, that's always available to me if I really need it.
Julia: I have done a – like, 4:00 AM and I can't fall back asleep bath during quarantine. I’m not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie to you.
Moiya: I respect that.
Amanda: It happens.
Julia: Yeah. So, Amanda, you are going to introduce our first question from our listeners. Why don't you – why don’t you shoot that one at us?
Amanda: Absolutely. I feel like this is one that, that has an answer. And I thought that it was a fantastic way to start. This is from tylerisonline via Instagram. And the question is, “PhD or not to PhD? Seems worth it since all careers are so uncertain right now, but IDK.
Moiya: Yes, tylerisonline, we have I, I think the perfect god to answer your question. A question that I, myself, have asked. And, so, we have Odin answering in verse as Odin does.
Amanda: Hell yeah.
Moiya: Dear Tyler, you asked about wisdom, the most noble ideal to pursue. Though knowledge can make you seem winsome, it requires much sacrifice too. Careers are always uncertain. And grad school will always bring pain. So, choose the lightest burden. Either way, you can curse me by name.
Julia: Aaah.
Moiya: In case you don't know --
Amanda: Incredible.
Moiya: -- who Odin is, Odin is the all father and the god of wisdom, poetry, and magic in Norse mythology. And he pursued knowledge at all costs. He was on this never ending quest. In fact, there are – there are a couple stories that show just how much Odin valued knowledge and wisdom. When he was trying to figure out how to read the runes, he sacrificed himself to himself by fasting and hanging wounded from a tree for nine days and nights. And, after that, he was able to read the runes. It gave him an extra way of perceiving the world. It gave him extra wisdom, but that wasn't enough for him. So, later on, when he wanted to gain even more wisdom, he went to Mimir, who was guarding the well in the roots of the tree, Yggdrasill. And he wanted to drink from this well because it provided cosmic knowledge, which I love. I would drink from that well. And, so, Mimir said, “No, if you want to drink from this, well, you have to give something up.” And he – like, Mimir decided that he wanted Odin to give up his eye. So, Odin cut out his own eye so that he could gain wisdom and knowledge. And, and I think that that's – that's good for Odin, but he didn't make this decision lightly at all. And he certainly didn't do it just because it seemed like the easy, or safe, or expected thing to do. He did it because his desire for knowledge was stronger than his fear of the pain. He really wrestled with this decision. Also, Odin was a nearly omnipotent being, who didn't have to worry about paying rent, or buying food, or negotiating future salaries based on previous experience. So, Tyler, don't just do a PhD because you think it's the safer option. Figure out how highly you value the knowledge that you would gain and then weigh that against what you would lose because there's a lot to lose by doing a PhD. And, if the knowledge comes out on top, then, then do that PhD. More power to you. But, if the knowledge doesn't win out, then, then don't – don't do it.
Julia: And I think that's like a really, really valid thing. Like, a lot of people, especially right now, were talking a lot about student loan and making sure that like --
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: -- “Hey, maybe student loans – maybe we shouldn't have to take out $50,000 in order to go to school for a job that is not going to pay us that $50,000 that we're eventually going to have to pay off to a private bank and stuff.”
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: That doesn't seem great. We probably shouldn't do that. We probably shouldn't make 18-year-olds and 17-year-olds make that decision when they – you know, I I think that you bring up a really good point. Like, knowledge does require a lot of sacrifice a lot of the time and especially in the modern world. So, whether or not you're willing to give up all of the things that Odin gave up is, you know, a theory for another time perhaps --
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: -- because who knows how much eye cutting out is required for a PhD. But the – but the – like, certain aspects of it, I think, it's just important to know, like, you're going to be sacrificing, like, money, and time, and your mental health --
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: -- and stuff like that for a thing that might not guarantee your future.
Moiya: Yeah, absolutely. I will say, I'm in the fifth year of the PhD program. No one has ever asked me to cut out my eye.
Julia: Okay. I bet.
Moiya: But I did make --
Amanda: Nice.
Moiya: -- a little nest under my desk for when I need to cry without my officemate seeing me.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: And I, I will say, if you are asked to cut out your eye, that would definitely make you memorable at conferences.
Julia: That’s true. The person with the fake eye or the eye patch.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: You will remember the things that they say during their panel.
Moiya: Yes.
Amanda: Moiya, can you talk a little bit about your decision to pursue your PhD? I made that decision and decided not to. So, I'm curious what kind of tipped the scales in the favor of doing it for you?
Moiya: Yeah, that's a great question. For me, it really was knowledge. I waited until basically the last minute to actually apply to PhD programs when I was a senior in college because I didn't want to do it based on inertia. I didn't want to do it just because it was the next step in my academic journey. So, instead, I waited until I had a question that I really wanted to answer that I didn't see, you know, a satisfying answer to in the literature. And that question for me was, “Is there a place in the galaxy where habitable planets are most likely to form?” And that is the question I'm answering in my PhD. So, knowledge won out for me and, and I'm okay with the sacrifices that I have made to get it.
Amanda: That's amazing. I think, for me, the, the lore of a PhD program, which, in my case would have been, like, information theory or, like, media theory, something along those lines. It was a, like, irrevocable gift of permission to myself. Like, I turned permission to do what I wanted into an obligation to do it. I felt like I wouldn't have the, the sort of guts, or courage, or excuse to pursue something I really loved if I didn't, like, sign up for a financial and, and practical obligation to do it. And, in the end, I – you know, ultimately, I wanted to pay off the loans I had before incurring more, which was, you know, the thing that had to be decided. It was like the most urgent need.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: But, looking back, I, I see now that that was what was motivating me. And I am glad that I ultimately found that permission and, and gave it to myself. It took me several more years. And maybe, you know, it would have been better in other ways if I had done it. But I think your, your advice here for Tyler and other people facing this decision is, is so on. And I just hope that either way, you know, you realize that you can – you can make many choices for yourself in your life. And it's a question of what serves you best right now.
Moiya: Yeah. And I love your way of putting it out. Like, giving yourself the permission to make these decisions and the decisions that would be best for you.
Julia: Heck yeah.
Amanda: Fantastic. Well, thank you, Moiya. Thank you, Odin.
Moiya: Thanks, Odin.
Amanda: Maybe a little – maybe a little lower stakes next. 80percentearlgrey on Instagram, great name, asked, “Why do my succulents keep dying?”
Julia: I think I got this one. One second.
Amanda: Lots of us were – lots of us are wondering this. I can't keep a succulent alive. I, I would love some help.
Julia: Yeah. My daughter was taken away from me or left or ran away depending on the stories you hear. In the moment she was gone, I was deep in my feelings and in my grief. I thought only of the want I needed. And I thought the world needed that too. The world became as I felt; cold, and frozen, and unfeeling. It was what I needed rather than what the world needed. When she returned to me, the world returned back to normal. But the world still felt the echoes of my grief. It took time to recover. Learn from my mistakes. Sometimes, we love things too much. And we try to take care of them in a way that we think is best when it's not best for them. Give the things you care about what they need rather than what you think they need. They are more likely to stay with you longer, to grow deep roots, and to survive the long winter months. With love, Demeter.
Amanda: Thanks, Mom.
Julia: So I think we can learn a lot from the story of Persephone and Hades. It's something that we talk about a lot on this podcast. But we spend a lot of time talking about Persephone and Hades but not Demeter, who is just a really integral part of the story. Demeter, in her grief of losing Persephone, year after year, allows the earth to grow cold and die around her. And I think your plant problem can be approached in two ways with Demeter in mind. You have to care for the world in the way that it needs to be cared for. Not just the way that you know how to care for it, which I think is true in both relationships and in your plants. Everyone needs to be cared for in different ways. And learning to love someone is learning to care for them in a way that is unique to them. And that is also true of succulents. Sometimes, you just got to give them space. Don't fall into the trap of tending to them too much. For one, this is research I did about succulents because I also can't keep plants alive. So, for one, most succulents don't want to be trapped indoors. They need better air circulation. So, leave them near windows in your house that you keep open the most. They're also low water plants. Don't overwater them or else they'll rot. But they also need water. They're not, like, water-free plants. So, small pots, you should be watering them sometime around once a week and then bigger pots every two weeks. Demeter’s point being though is life is about balance and learning the needs of things that you care for.
Moiya: Hmm.
Amanda: Fantastic.
Julia: Amanda, you have a – you have big plant tending vibes, how do you feel when you tend to your plants?
Amanda: I think learning to water only as much as the plant needs is something that does not come naturally. You think like, “Okay. I will – I will water them all once a week or I will water them when I remember.” And then panic that you haven't done it and do it too much. But every plant really needs its own schedule. And, and they also tell you, for the most part, when they need water. You are better to wait until they ask you for something than to provide it, you know, too often. And it's true too that, especially when moving to a new place, when you get a new plant, or when you report an old plant. I just adopted one from a neighbor, for example. And her apartment is only a few doors down from mine. So, the light situation is very similar, but it's still different humidity, different vibe, different shadows, you know. And all of that really impacts the plant. It needs a long time to get acclimated to where it's at. And, two, if the plant isn't growing, that's okay. It's still alive. It takes some plants a while to relax enough to grow. Also, many of them don't grow over the winter. They just kind of stay as they are. Maybe drop a couple of leaves so they can concentrate on keeping what's important healthy. And everything I said is a metaphor, just now. So, I, I try to take a lot of lessons from my plants in that way.
Moiya: I have a very practical logistical question.
Julia: Sure.
Amanda: Yeah.
Moiya: So, you say all of your plants have their own schedules. Do you have a calendar for when to feed and water your plants?
Amanda: I check on them every morning. It's a thing that I find very meditative. Many of my plants are kind of jungle, jungle guys. And, so, they really enjoy getting misted, a tip from my grandmother. So, I have a little, like, like, a Windex bottle that I cleaned and filled with water. And, so, every morning, I go and mist the lads who enjoy misting. Not the succulents because they do not enjoy it. And I – at this point, I can just look at the color of the soil. And I can tell if it needs watering or not. But, almost all of them, you default to not watering. Like, you stick your finger in there, if the soil is wet, for almost all plants, they, they don't need it. So, I took – it took a long time for me to be like, “Oh, my god, am I neglecting it? I better water it. Oh, my god, I'm so bad.” Or to freak out when, you know, there are leaves that get dropped. But, at this point, you know, you get used to them. And you relax and you give them a little mist every day. And they, they wilt, and yell, and tell you when they need them.
Julia: Also, leaves dropping is kind of, like, when you – you're just like, “I can't take any more obligations right now for my own personal, like, recovery time.”
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: So, it's just, like, them putting more energy into things in order to survive.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: So, I feel like – I feel like personal metaphors is good for plants and vice versa because I forget --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -- sometimes that plants are just, like, living things that have their own needs and desires. And, when they do things, it's in direct reaction to their environment around them.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: Exactly. Moiya, you have a plant that tells you what it needs. What was it like getting used to being a mom of a beautiful cat named Cosmo?
Moiya: Yeah. Oh, I – yeah, I was just thinking in my head before you said that. Like, plants are kind of, like, pets, which is --
Julia: Yeah.
Moiya: -- something I've never considered before. It's been a journey. And I'd say the, the biggest thing I've learned from being the – a caretaker to Cosmo is I've learned so much about consent from this cat.
Julia: Yes.
Moiya: He will only do things when he wants to do them. And, sometimes, I want nothing more than to have Cosmo curl up on my lap and cuddle with me because I'm sad. But, if he doesn't want to do it, like, I, I can't force him to. I shouldn't force him to because I – it's not my place to project my needs and desires onto him. So, that's – that's what my journey has been like.
Julia: That is great. I love that. I feel like a lot of --
Amanda: Fantastic.
Julia: -- pet owners, especially people who, like, you know, are first time pet owners --
Moiya: Hmm.
Julia: -- they're just like, “Oh, well, you know, I'm getting a dog so that I will always have something to cuddle with me. And it'll always be a chill, chill dog. But, like, no, like, a lot of dogs, like, require a lot of energy, and exercise, and stuff like that. And, so, you're not going to have just like this chill dog. Unless, you get like an elderly dog, which is also good. You should adopt elderly pets --
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: -- because they need love too. Also, #adoptdon'tshop. But I think it is really important to be like, “This is not just like a toy, which I'm playing with who, like, you know, can give me affection and stuff. No, this is a living thing that has needs.”
Moiya: Yeah.
Amanda: I find it very soothing to read parenting advice columns from time to time because I have absolutely no stakes in the game. And one of the, the things that I read often is, like, you get the kid you get. Like, you parent the kid you have, not the one you want.
Julia: Ooh.
Amanda: You know, or the one you wish it was or the one you were. And I, I think tons of advice all around that, that really applies here.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: All right. Well, let's – speaking of consent, and learning, and developing a relationship with the thing around you, this is from Sweet, sweet Renee on Instagram. And the question is just long distance relationships period. So, general advice, take us away Moiya.
Moiya: Long distance relationships, for this, I channeled the Maori goddess of creation Papatūānuku who says, “Dear Sweet, sweet Renee, I long to be reunited with my husband. To feel his arms around me, instead of just the tears he lets fall in his yearning. I miss him so much that, sometimes, I thrash and heave in my efforts to reach him. But, for the sake of my children, the trees, and the animals, and yes, you too, I cannot go to him. If we were to lie with each other again, we would block the light with our bodies and plunge the universe into darkness. I can't know what ties bind you. But I do know that, if the fate of the world weren't resting on my shoulders, nothing could keep me from my beloved Rangi. So, what's your excuse? With love, Papa.” And she also included a PS, “The yearning is a sign that our love is still strong. And I'll only start to worry if the yearning begins to fade. Also, just because we can't touch, doesn't mean we can't make each other feel loved, if you know what I mean. Rangi still sends gifts that make me tingle all over.
Julia: Yes.
Amanda: Hell yeah.
Moiya: Thanks, Papa. So, in Maori creation myth, Maori being the indigenous people to New Zealand, Papatūānuku and Ranginui emerged from darkness and nothingness. So, at the beginning of the universe, everything was dark. Together, they had many children, gods of the forest, and the sea, and food, and a bunch of other things. I think they had, like, six or seven children. But all of the children were just, like, squished between their bodies. And there was no light. And there was no space between Papa and Rangi where the children were stuck. So, after some disagreement among the children, they devised a plan to separate their parents. To physically separate them to let the light into the universe. And --
Julia: This is a reverse Parent Trap. Oh, my god.
Moiya: Exactly. Afterwards, there, there were some wars, but, but still Papa and Rangi continue to be separated. Yeah, that – that's all Papa had to say --
Julia: Okay.
Moiya: -- about long distance relationships.
Julia: I, I do like Papa's mentioned about that, like, yearning is a sign that your love is still strong. And, if that yearning begins to fade, that means, hey, that's something to be concerned about perhaps.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: As someone who spent the first five years of my relationship or the first year together and then the following five years in a long distance relationship and, now, married to that man that I did all that with, yeah, that's super important to make sure that you're still, like, remotely interested in the person that you were spending time apart from. But, at the same time, I really appreciate that I had that long distance relationship because it taught us both independence in our relationship. Like, I think that a lot of relationships can feel a little bit, like, codependent when you are constantly seeing the other person. And it's hard to kind of learn that independence – especially when you're young, to learn that independence outside of the relationship as well as inside of the relationship. It also teaches you trust. So, you're like, “I don't – I'm not worried about what they're doing because we've been doing this for five years. And I have no reason not to trust this person.”
Moiya: Those are great lessons.
Amanda: Sorry. I was just stuck on the thought that this creation myth sounds a lot like my very layman knowledge of the Big Bang. And that's really tight.
Julia: Yeah, that’s tight.
Moiya: Yeah. And, and it's not the only one too. There are – I actually asked for help from Twitter when I was, you know, trying to figure out whose divine knowledge I should accept from the universe.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: And it seems like there are a lot of different myths from around the world that have this idea of two creation beings needed to be separated for the universe to continue on its current path. So, in Christianity with Lilith and Samael, or in Greek mythology with Gaia and Ouranos, I think, or, like, even Atlas having to hold up the sky.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: There, there are a lot of examples in mythology of people needing to separate the heavens from the earth.
Julia: Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, like, that's what Nyx is in Greek mythology.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: She is literally like a darkness covering the, the ether where the light comes from, which – I don't know. I just love that imagery. It's always really cool. And, again, I love the creation myth because it shows how much of, like, the lived experience of people is similar --
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: -- even across the world. It’s – it's one of my favorite things.
Amanda: And I think too the context that really struck me when Papa was giving us her advice is of COVID. And there are a lot of reasons why it is safe, and prudent, and necessary for the health of the world for people to stay where they are. And I'm sure there are a ton of people who would much, much rather be with the person they love. But it is more prudent not to right now. And I think that, if that's your situation, you know, thank you for, for making that personal sacrifice on behalf of others. It is necessary and I, I think wonderful. Maybe not something people thank you for, but I will say it. And I also think that there are maybe some practical tips that we can brainstorm to make those long distance relationships feel as, as close and as intimate as they can. Loving the suggestion to have some remote activities that make you both feel loved, appreciated, touched, et cetera if that's something you jive with. But, also, maybe there are ways to make new memories together and to make new routines. Whether you, you know, check in with each other each morning, whether you have, you know, a video chat breakfast, or lunch, or dinner together or each take a bath, and read, and, you know, be on speakerphone quietly with one another.
Moiya: Aww.
Amanda: Movies, you know, a two-person book club, whatever makes you feel as if you are doing something special together that you can only do with each other even if it doesn't involve the kind of daily intimacy and just ambient togetherness that you crave. I think making that space – even if it’s a virtual space, where it's just – it's just you. You know, it's – it's just you guys. It's just your relationship. There is a structure, a time, a place, and, like, inside jokes, you know. And maybe you eat the same snack. You know, maybe you, you wear – buy the same robe or slippers and each wear them at the same time. There is a way to recreate that intimacy.
Julia: Yeah. And we're – we're lucky compared to Papa because we have the ability to do those things.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: Like, long distance relationships are so much easier than they were at the creation of the universe and also, like, back in the 90s. You know, it's just so much easier to, to have that relationship that is via text and via Zoom and via watching Netflix at the same time together. Like, we, we really benefit from having a much closer world than they, they did.
Moiya: Literally, yeah.
Julia: Quite literally. Yeah. Though, I would – I would argue that the world is now bigger because they have been separated. There's more space for the rest of us.
Moiya: That's true.
Amanda: I know.
Julia: I love this. I remotely would love to also go get a refill with the rest of y'all.
Amanda: Let's do it.
Midroll Music
Julia: We are sponsored this week by BetterHelp. BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Well, you might have heard, hey, my therapist is on maternity leave right now. And that was very stressful for me. But, thankfully, I turned to better help to kind of, you know, have a stopgap measure for my mental health issues. And they were super, super easy to use. BetterHelp will help assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapists. You can start communicating in under 48 hours. It's not a crisis line. It's not self-help. It is professional counseling done securely online. There is a broad range of expertise available, which might not be locally available in many areas which I find really, really helpful. So, like, if you're looking for, like, say, a therapist who specializes in queer therapy, that's something that BetterHelp could help you with. Or, if you need a stress management therapist like I do and there's just not any in your area, BetterHelp can be like, “Yeah, but we can hook you up with that,” which I really appreciate. You can log into your account anytime and send a message to your counselor. You get these timely and thoughtful responses. Plus, you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions. So, you don't have to do that kind of uncomfortable waiting room thing that traditional therapy does, especially now when you're trying to social distance and wear a mask. And BetterHelp is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches. So, they make it easy and free to change counselors if needed, which is a huge thing. It's so hard to switch therapists and explain to someone, “Oh, hey, here's my whole life story that this other person already knew about, but, now, I have to tell you it.” It just takes the stress out of that. So, BetterHelp wants you to start living a happier life today. You can visit their website and read their testimonials. That get posted daily. It's at betterhelp.com/reviews. And, if you visit betterhelp.com/spirits, that's betterH-E-L-P.com/spirits, you can join the over a million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional.
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Amanda: We are answering a variety of questions from our beautiful conspirator community this episode. So, I got a variety of beer for everybody. I picked up a sampler pack of these Saranac Brewing New York hometown wonders, their winter pack. And the one I have in front of me is the Winter Warmer, which is not too spicy necessarily, but it's, like, a warm tasting beer, which I think is really appropriate.
Moiya: Hmm.
Julia: Dang. That sounds good. I, I kind of fall into the old habit of getting the Sam Adams variety pack because Boston y'all. But, yeah, their Oktoberfest is still very good. It's not the best Oktoberfest out there, but it is very drinkable.
Moiya: My go-to drink is called a Weltini, which is a drink that my partner made up. And it has triple sec, and seltzer, and cranberry mango juice.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: Ooh, it's kind of, like, a less boozy Cosmo and I'm into that.
Moiya: Yeah. Yeah.
Julia: That sounds delicious.
Amanda: I love that.
Moiya: Yeah, it's pretty – it's awesome. He just made it with what we had in our kitchen one day.
Julia: That's great. Those are the best kind of cocktails.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: That's how I came up with the summer smash, which our listeners will remember is tequila, sparkling watermelon juice from Trader Joe's, and lime.
Moiya: Hmm.
Amanda: Yeah, our, our house drink is tequila topo with a lime topo chico, mineral water, and, and tequila. But, listen, to the extent that you wish to learn more about alcohol, Moiya, you know we're here for you.
Moiya: Oh, I do. Yes. Thank you.
Amanda: Well, having just been in our respective kitchens, this is a question from Mia Schloss on Instagram, tips for working from home when you've never done that before.
Julia: All right. I got this one. Dear Mia Schloss, I was born in the wilderness. The mother goddess bore me from the ground of the valley and gave me free range of the rivers and the fields. It was my home before Shamhat came to me and brought me into her home. The world became different. The animals who used to run with me now ran in fear of me. But I was opened up to a new world, one that required me to learn new rules, new challenges to face. I miss the old world, the world that seemed vast and endless underneath the sky having been traded for a world of new unspoken rules. But I get to carve my place in this world. And there are others who have lived here before me. They guide my hand, teach me with each step and our understanding of my mistakes. I am sure that, in your way, you know there are others who will give you such guidance and still more that there are others who have been on the same path as you, as I am, as many are. You can forge the path through the wilderness together towards the great cities, sharing its secrets, and taking comfort in each other's newly acquired knowledge. The best to you, Enkidu. And you guys might remember Enkidu from our Epic of Gilgamesh episode. He was the wild man that acted as the kind of, like, literary foil to the more city-focused warrior king of Gilgamesh. Though the two are originally antagonistic, they become good friends. And, when Enkidu dies, Gilgamesh goes on that huge journey to gain godly immortality. Enkidu was also trained in the ways of “civilization” by the sex worker, Shamhat, who spends two weeks giving him, like, different kinds of lessons and stuff, like, the rules of society, also, having sex with him. You know, classic. Given COVID, I wouldn't suggest this part of the learning the rules of work from home. But the experience that Enkidu went through is fairly similar. And, as many people who work on this podcast will remind you, we have been work-from-home since before the pandemic. We also feel as though we'd be able to give you some good advice. So, I’m – I'm sure also that you know people in your life who have also been struggling with work-from-home just as you are. So, maybe swapping tips on how to break up your day will certainly make your life easier. So, here's my personal advice. Keep your schedule. Without the commute, it is, like, super tempting to wake up late and start your day later. But keeping a schedule, even if it's a modified work-from-home schedule, will help make things easier for adapting. Keeping a schedule also makes sure that you, like, have water, you eat your lunch on time, you take a break to, like, walk outside or just, like, walk through your home. One of the hardest things about working from home and adapting to that is kind of losing the structure of an office space. But, when you make your own structure, your own schedule, your own routine, it makes the whole experience way, way easier.
Amanda: I love that. And I think it's also really important to remember that, even though Enkidu is sort of held up as – not the antihero exactly, but definitely the anti-Gilgamesh.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And they're sort of like, “Oh, well, he isn't from society. So, like, what can he say?” He is Gilgamesh’s equal. Like, he is kind of his soulmate and his, his brother, his love. Like, however you want to categorize it.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: They are equal even though the rhythms of their life and the appearances of their life are different and even though the kind of, like, morality of the story has a point of view on which one is better. But, hey, guys, the 40-hour workweek is bullshit, man.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: The way that work and society and productivity are structured and compensated is bullshit, man. And, just because you feel like you chafe against this illusion we are all under that we need to perfectly replicate the conditions of a factory in an office and an office in your home, it doesn't mean you're doing something wrong. It is bullshit. We are not built for this. And, and it is not built for society. It's not built to be good for you. It is built to extract the most value out of your labor for the benefits of the few. So, I just wanted to put that context out there too because, the fact that you might not be, you know, able to sit down and not move or think about anything other than the job you are paid to do between 9:00 and 5:00, doesn't mean anything about you or your morality. Just in case you're wondering.
Julia: You're also – like, you probably can get – and, like, listen, I don't want you to get fired. So, this is hypothetical. You can get away with a lot more stuff now that you're working from home. Like, you can listen to music full blast while you're, like, you know, filling out your spreadsheets and stuff. It is just so much easier to, like, live a kind of life that is much more flexible when you don't, like, worry about your boss coming around the corner and seeing that you're not, like, doing work at the exact moment that they see you, you know. So, just, like, take it easy. It's okay. I know, like, work from home can be really isolating and very boring. But it also means that you have a little bit more free time to yourself. And you should enjoy that as much as you can.
Moiya: Something I've been doing since starting to work from home is just giving myself permission to remember that this isn't normal.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: So, if it takes me some time to adjust to it or if I have to adjust to it multiple times, which I have had to do, that it – that that's okay. And I have just been giving myself permission to, like Amanda said, remember that the 40-hour workweek isn't the end all be all of productivity if that's something that is important to you. If that – like, if that's something you want to measure. So, just remembering that this isn't normal. And, so, however you're adjusting to it, like, that's – that's fine.
Julia: Yeah, I'll say you're worth it.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Your worth is not tied to your productivity, just a reminder for that as well.
Moiya: Yes. Yes, thank you.
Amanda: I went through a phase last year or like a beautiful, wonderful vacation period of reading a bunch of, like, feminist work from the 1970s about the value of, like, what is often termed women's labor and just sort of, like, the, the cost of, like, domesticity part of the, like, wages for housework campaign. That was, like, an international effort to, to compensate people who worked at home cleaning, cooking, you know, caring for kids. And it was a great kind of reminder that all the stuff that we think we are just kind of supposed to be able to take care of, particularly if you were assigned female at birth. You are just told that like, “Oh, yes. Well, everybody just effortlessly, you know, is able to, like – that is the myth that we are sold.” You're able just effortlessly, like, participate in society and, like, keep a tight home. That, like, the Tide commercials and bleach commercials, like, want you to think is just the way all houses are. All of this – like, there are impossible standards that we are held to. And I would encourage you, if you're struggling with this, to think about the non-negotiables every day. Every day, do what you need to do, whether that's to, you know, feed your body, to take care of your physical environment, to the minimum requirement, to the people around you if you've a care obligation to them. And, certainly, to whatever makes you money. Like, what do you – what do you need to do? Write those things down and make a little checklist for yourself, what, what needs to happen every day, what needs to happen every week. And, if those things are done, great, you know. Like, you can – you can check off those boxes even if the boxes are, you know, apply for one job, take a shower, eat something. Like, you are starting at a great baseline. And that'll set you up to, to achieve something, to meet your minimum requirements, and also to have a list that you can look to. And, when you're wondering like, “Oh, god, like, what do I need to do? Like, I surely need to be doing something that I'm not doing,” you can look at the list and say, “Well, actually, I did all of them. And, so, if I need to take a rest right now – my body is telling me I have to, like, watch Gilmore Girls and, and just kind of zone out, not think of a lot. Then you're allowed to if you have met your minimum requirements. So, I am – I am a fan of making sure that I know exactly what I must do. And then, if my brain is trying to guilt trip me into doing more, I have evidence to tell it yes or no. And, you know, beyond that, a lot of people are sharing tips. I think it is – it is important to be able to say to somebody else in your life, “Hey, this is really hard, right?” And, like, let their confirmation be meaningful to you.
Julia: Yeah, I have gotten into the habit of starting my workday with my coffee and my glass of water. And then setting myself, like, an hour to an hour-and-a-half timer that goes off every hour and hour and a half to remind myself to refill my water because, like, I know I will get a migraine at the end of the day if I don't drink at least, like, four glasses of water through the day. So, I think it's super important to just be like, “Hey, you need things. I know you probably forgot that you need things, but you need things.
Moiya: I, I have no more advice. I just – I just want to listen to Amanda and Julia tell me how to live my life all the time.
Julia: Listen, just figure out what works for you. That's all this is all about. You know, try things until it works out. And, you know, you'll – you'll get through it. We're probably going to be looking at more and more and more months of work from home. So, you still have time to figure things out.
Amanda: Let us move into a creative question. This is from Emma G. on Twitter. Please give me some writer's block advice from Brigid.
Moiya: Hmm. Yes, I love, Emma, that you're tapping into this long tradition of poets and creative people asking Brigid for inspiration. So, Brigid wrote back, “Dear Emma, when the fire in my forge dims or a river’s current slows to a trickle, the first thing to do is take a deep breath. Then, remember that it's not the fault of the fire or the river. Something else has impeded their flow. Instead of putting the iron back in the fire or trying to bathe in the trickle, seek out the source of the congestion. Your writing has a flow too, one that can't be blocked by soot or stone but by fear and self-doubt. The poets, who invoke me, do so because they don't know how to assuage their own fears. And I tell them I am Brigid and I contain multitudes. I am not a goddess of fire or a goddess of water. I am both and I am neither because I am so much more. You, dear child, are neither a bad writer nor a good one. Your writing does not define you. And, so, you have nothing to fear from it. Passionately yours, Brigid.”
Julia: Aaah.
Moiya: Brigid --
Amanda: Fuck yeah, dude.
Moiya: I like to think that Brigid inspired Walt Whitman. And he stole the, “I contain multitudes” line from her.
Amanda: Headcanon accepted.
Moiya: Thank you. Brigit, or Brigid, or Brid, she's had lots of different names that have been syncretized over the years. But Brigid is a pagan Celtic goddess with dominion over so many seemingly contradictory things. She's the goddess of fire, healing, fertility, smithing, which is badass --
Julia: Yeah. Fuck yeah.
Moiya: -- water and poetry, just to name a few of them. Many Irish poets have cited Brigid or her Christian namesake St. – St. Brigid as the source of their inspiration. I have also – like, in my fits of desperation, have asked the universe to provide, you know, like, creative muses for me when I'm trying to write and I can't and the thing that helps me get through it. Maybe Brigid has said this to me before, but figure out why you can't write. Are you afraid that if you put something out into the world that people will judge you? Are you afraid that, you know, maybe you've written something before and you're afraid that whatever you write next can't live up to it? Whatever you're afraid of, face it. And, once you face it, it's not scary anymore. And then it won't be able to block your writing. And, so, that's – that's what I've done when I have needed to, like, put something on the page. But, also, there are a few, like, practical things. Just, like, every once in a while, I try just writing in gibberish. Like, you know when you do that thing to check if your spell check is working and you just mash a bunch of keys. Like, do that for a while longer than you think you should. And, eventually, your brain will get tired of it. And you'll start writing actual words and the words will not make sense at first, but then you're – like, the words will start to make sense. So, do that or just, just, like, free flow. Just stream of consciousness, write whatever your brain tells your hands to write. And, eventually, it'll – it'll start making sense. And, like, just write first and edit later. That's – that's my advice.
Amanda: Ahhh, I love that so much. And I really appreciate that you kind of pulled out of Brigid the fact that your writing doesn't define you. I think that is often kind of what is at the base of frustration with ourselves. We have so much kind of expectation wrapped up in, in self-worth, kind of wrapped up in things. Like, if we don't, you know, do a certain amount of – like, we don't clear our inbox at the end of the day, you know, I might feel bad about myself. And then, if I ask, “Well, why? Like, why does that matter to me?” If you're kind of curious, like, you are – you know, if you eat something that you're like, “That's an interesting taste.” Then you kind of go back and you, like, ask yourself questions like, “Do I like this? Like, why do I like it? Why do I not like it?” And, and treat your feelings with curiosity instead of shame.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: Very applicable for this, this Catholic influenced question. I just think that that is a really good way to ask yourself, you know, “Am I mad because I'm not writing? Or am I mad because I feel guilty about the amount of creative work I am putting out right now? And, if I don't finish this writing assignment today, I feel like I'm not actually an artist.” Like, there is – there is a lot there that you can then dive into and reassure yourself. And, if you get – you know, if you're after kind of creative fulfillment and you get creative fulfillment from cooking or from perfecting your spreadsheets, like I did today, or from writing, then, like, it doesn't matter where it comes from. It matters what it does for you.
Julia: I do have some practical advice. And this is more of, like, a, “I need to work on this thing, but I, just for some reason, cannot get it started” kind of thing. Again, this is a similar advice to what Amanda did. Make sure all of your, like, minimum needs are met. Like, it's like, “Oh, why am I not feeling motivated to cook myself any sort of dinner? It's because I'm hungry already. So maybe, if I, like, snack on something, I will have the motivation to cook myself a full meal. You know what I mean?” So, I, I feel like that's a big executive dysfunction thing. Shout out, ADHD. But I really do think that it's important to kind of remind yourself like, “Oh, hey, the reason why you can't work on this thing or why you're feeling such a block about it is because your brain doesn't have the energy for it. And you need to take care of that before you try doing stuff that is more than what you would typically ask of your brain.”
Moiya: Yeah.
Amanda: Moiya, do you keep any kind of, like, file or collection of inspiration that you refer to when you need it?
Moiya: I don't, but, now, I want to. So, what often gets me through the day is a TED talk that I once saw. So, maybe, maybe this is a bit of inspiration that I go back to every once in a while. So, Elizabeth Gilbert gave a TED talk a few – several years ago about genius. The idea that, a long time ago, people didn't call other people geniuses. They said that they had genius.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: Or that a genius visited them. And the idea was that a, a genius is an external being that can visit you and provide inspiration. And it's not something that you inherently have. And I often go back to that TED Talk to remind myself that all of this creative juice that I, sometimes, have and sometimes don't, it's not mine. It's not inherently me. Sometimes, I am struck by divine or a creative, genius inspiration, whatever. And that takes a lot of pressure off to remember that I don't have to have it in me all the time. And, sometimes, I will just be struck in a moment. And then I can capture whatever it is.
Julia: I love that. That is a great thing to kind of remind people of. That it's not just like – you, you are visited by it. It's not a constant thing.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: That's – that's great. I love that.
Moiya: It also helps me remember that I can't force it.
Julia: That's absolutely true. Sometimes, I'm just like, “I need to do this thing. I know I need to do this thing. But it's, like, I just can't right now. And that's okay. I will do it eventually. I just can't do it right now.”
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: Yeah. Or find the thing that you can do and, and start there. Like, you know, warm yourself up. Ease yourself into it. I, I think that fan works are real works. And part of why I like writing and reading fanfiction so much is because it is a different kind of work to write or to read in a universe you already know. And you can focus on, on character, on motivations, on relationships, on, like, small tweaks of plots or archetypes that you already know really well. And that often is more approachable to me or something that I can do and I don't feel like either engaging or participating in the building of a whole new world.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: So, like, that's okay. It's not less. It's just different. It's the thing that I feel like right now. And that is definitely, definitely allowed. Well, I loved getting to hear from so many of our favorite gods and god-adjacent figures. Julia and Moiya, thank you so much for bringing this. And, Moiya – I don't know – would you like to maybe come back and do this again?
Moiya: I would love to so much.
Julia: Oh.
Moiya: Yes, please.
Amanda: Yay.
Julia: I love a recurring segment.
Amanda: Incredible. So, conspirators, remember, you can email us your questions for future myth advice episodes at spiritspodcast.com/contact or we will always put in our Insta story a few days before we record some of these when our call for questions is open. So, follow us there @SpiritsPodcast. And, Moiya, let the people know where they can listen and read all of your beautiful wonderful thoughts online.
Moiya: Well, hello, I host a podcast called Exolore. You can find it on Twitter and Instagram @exolorepod. That's E-X-O-L-O-R-Epod. And the show is all about fictional world building. So, I help you imagine other worlds but with facts and science. And I, I love it. And it brings me joy and I hope that, if you listen to it, it will bring you some joy too.
Julia: It brings me joy every time I listen. And that's all that matters to me.
Amanda: Me as well. Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, everybody. Maybe we'll think of a sign off specific for these segments. But, in the meantime, you know what to do. Remember.
Julia: Stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
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Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil