Episode 377: Advice from Folklore IX (with Dr. Moiya McTier)
/The gods (and astrophysicist-folklorist Dr. McTier) are back to channel divine inspiration for YOUR questions. We cover it all, from jobs to housekeeping to dealing with sibling estrangement.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of misogyny, birth, family estrangement, capitalism, irregular eating, and depression.
Guest
Dr. Moiya McTier is an astrophysicist and folklorist who hosts Exolore, Pale Blue Pod, and PBS’s Fate & Fabled. She wrote The Milky Way: an Autobiography of our Galaxy, named a best book of 2022 by Publishers Weekly. And she serves as the senior advisor to the Human Artistry Campaign advocating for artists in the face of generative AI.
Housekeeping
- TOUR: Get tickets for our Rolling Bones Tour!
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: https://multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And hey, we are back with a segment that as I was looking over the document we use for this segment, we haven't done in like over a year. So welcome back, everyone to Advice from Folklore, and welcome back, Dr. Moiya McTier.
DR. MOIYA: Thank you. It has been a while. I'm sure the gods really missed us pestering them.
JULIA: Yeah. You know, they're like, "Listen, it was a nice break, but now it's time to give advice to people who need it from a divine sense."
DR. MOIYA: Of course.
AMANDA: This is, of course, the episode where Moiya and Julia channel the gods for some divine inspiration to questions from you conspirators about life, love, purpose, what we're going to do next, and everything in between. So folks, shall we get started in this sort of liminal spaces transition from winter to spring? I think it's a wonderful time of year to ask the gods for a little support as we look forward to what's next.
JULIA: I'm so excited to channel the gods, see what they have to say. And hopefully, this advice is useful to not just only the question-askers, but the people who are listening to this episode.
DR. MOIYA: Julia, your advice is always useful to me, at least.
JULIA: Aw, Moiya.
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: Stop. Yours, too.
AMANDA: Guys, I learned so much from you both every time.
DR. MOIYA: Aw.
JULIA: You can guys can Uno reverse me with feelings right before we get the episode started and end in pain.
DR. MOIYA: Tis my ploy.
JULIA: Oh, no. You got me.
AMANDA: Alright, let's see who can help T, she/her, who wrote to us via email. T says, "My husband and I are inheriting his dad's home as soon as it's ready for us to move into. It's the first time in my adult home-owning life that I'll have a proper backyard to garden in. What should I plant? Annual vegetables or annual flowers?"
JULIA: Now, Amanda, this is such a great question, because at the time of recording this, this is the perfect time to start planning out your garden, because you gotta, like, get the seedlings, got to order the seeds, get things started, then you can transfer into the garden after the frost date has passed. So this is a great time to, like, start planning, and I think I have a answer from maybe a couple of goddesses who might have something to say.
DR. MOIYA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Alright, let's see what they have to say.
JULIA: I hear, "Dear T, to tend your own garden is a spiritual experience. One that connects you closer to the Earth and in a way to yourself. We three sisters are pleased that you have this opportunity to explore yourself and to spread your love and care to the soil and the nature that surrounds you. And we are sure that your bounty will be plentiful. We have a way of seeing into the future, you see, and we see soil and toil and the same cornucopia that nurtured the infant Zeus. In planning your garden, we encourage you to plant what moves you. What would you like to grace your table? What do you want to pluck from the branches of your plants sun-warmed, ripe, and sweet? What do you want to feast on in your fields as you tend to those who have not yielded their bounty? Those are the things you should plant. You ask about a harvest that returns year after year with Demeter's blessing, of course. She, who gave us the cycles of the season with her grief, still allows the plants, both flowers and fruit, to be reborn along with her daughter. But when it comes to flowers, we are something of experts for our children flock to them. So as you plant your seeds of vegetables and fruit, so flowers for our children, too. Remember that you are not the only one working the fields. Our bees, too, must come and do their work as well. One cannot exist without the other, and so offer up floral gifts to the bees of your garden, so that they may join you in what you tend to. Yours in harvesting growth, The Thriae." Hello, guys.
AMANDA: It's Julia. Julia, your— your eyes, like, rolled back in your head as you— as you channeled divine inspiration. It was beautiful.
JULIA: Thank you. Thank you. So for y'all who may not know The Thriae are really interesting. They're a triad from Greek mythology. They are a group of three nymphs, including Melaina who's the— the black is the translation for that. Kleadora who is famed for her gift. And Daphnis, which translates to Laurel. And these are the patron goddesses of bees.
AMANDA: Bees.
JULIA: Greek mythology—
AMANDA: I love bees. Aw.
JULIA: —has a lot of like association with bees, but these are specifically like the three goddesses that are the patron goddesses of bees and I think that's really fun. They're usually portrayed as having— I know, Amanda, this is not going to please you, but having women's heads and torsos, but then lower half body and wings of bees, which is kind of fun.
AMANDA: That's pretty cute, though.
DR. MOIYA: Hell yeah.
AMANDA: That's pretty cute.
DR. MOIYA: Oh, I'm so into that.
AMANDA: I love bees.
DR. MOIYA: It makes the aerodynamics even worse.
JULIA: Bees, they just shouldn't be able to fly. You'd see them and you're like, "How? How are you doing that?"
AMANDA: So round and cute, like a little blimp.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. I think that's just the bumble bees. The honey bees are more aerodynamically sensical.
JULIA: These are really interesting too, because it is suggested in a hymn by Homer to Hermes, that these bee maidens, which I love that translation, bee maidens, were the ones that helped Apollo learned his power of divination, specifically through the casting of lots or the throwing of stones, which I think is really interesting.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: That's why they mentioned like, "Oh, we can see into the future and we can see that your garden is going to be successful."
DR. MOIYA: Hmm.
JULIA: And it's most likely that they were originally bee goddesses that were kind of like a bigger deal in pre-Hellenic times, but were kind of reduced to lower status as the religion of ancient Greeks as we know, it became to spread and grow. So they were kind of higher up in status, and then became a little bit more just like, you know, demi goddesses, nymph kind of things in the— in the hierarchy. So I— I think that they're a great encourager for you in growing your garden. But also, as a reminder, like, hey, if you're going to be planting fruits and vegetables that need pollinators, it is important to plant flowers and stuff like that, that are going to attract pollinators to your garden in the first place.
DR. MOIYA: That's a good practical lesson.
JULIA: And Amanda, I know that you are very into gardening. Famously, we have a— a sort of shared garden situation at my home, but I'm sure you have some great advice for this as well.
AMANDA: Yeah. I think starting with flowers and starting with a— a pollinator patch, as people tend to call it, you can generally get at any local nursery or even plant store, a mix of seeds that are meant for your area, that have, you know, adapted and evolves to thrive exactly where you are. Which I think is really encouraging, because I for one know the pain and disappointment that you can feel when you try to grow something and it fails. Or something about weather outside that's unpredictable means that you don't have the harvest, or the plants, or the start that you planned on. And so having flowers that will help pollinators in your area and also that are predisposed to help and grow, and generally, these mixes sort of have different flowers that come up over the season and over time, so you'll have something different surprising you every few days or weeks in your garden, I think is a great call. But Moiya, in the last year since we did Advice from Folklore, you have also decorated a place of your own and moved into a new space wi— I know plants have been a part of that. So how has your sort of settling in and making a home with greenery gone?
DR. MOIYA: Oh, it's been so lovely. I finally moved to a place that has access to sunlight. I have a burgeoning plant wall right now, I have an aloe named Alfonso, he's doing so well. And a pothos named Petra. I am finding it really satisfying to care for other beings that can't vocalize. Like, I— I have Cosmo, he is a cat, and he screams at me when he needs food. The plants don't do that. I've had to find an app, I've had to learn new types of patients. It's— it's been really— really lovely to see them grow and have them be a part of my life. They bring me so much peace—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
DR. MOIYA: —when I walk into my space. But I don't have flowers, or vegetables, or anything. I tried to grow herbs and it did not go well.
AMANDA: Herbs are hard, Moiya. They require a lot of sun and very different kinds of water, so it's— it's challenging.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Thank you. It helps to hear you say that.
AMANDA: Yes, no, they— they really are, and succulents. I'm very impressed that you have Alfonso, you know, going well.
JULIA: Yeah, herbs especially when grown indoors, very needy bitches, just totally needy.
AMANDA: They really are.
JULIA: Like lavender loves to thrive on neglect when planted in the ground, but will be a dramatic bitch to you if you do not water it enough in the house.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So—
DR. MOIYA: It was. It was such a dramatic bit.
JULIA: It just is, you know? And all of a sudden they'll start, like, fully wilting because you didn't water it one day and you're like, "What is wrong with you?" You don't like attention, lavender." Come on. Come on.
DR. MOIYA: I do love your point, Amanda, about growing things that are native to your area, because that—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
DR. MOIYA: —will help native flora and fauna both work in tandem. You know, that's a good ecosystem right there.
JULIA: Yeah, it's super important to make sure that you do a little bit of research about what plants aren't native to you. A lot of times, Amanda, I'm really glad when you suggested doing, like, your pollinators and your wildflower blends and stuff like that. A lot of times people just kind of like throw a bunch of seeds in there and not check whether or not it is a actual, like, group of plants that will thrive and also help your— your native community. So definitely, like, do your research ahead of time and make sure that you're promoting good growth of things that should be growing there and not shouldn't be growing there.
AMANDA: I've also seen a bunch on, like, rewilding Instagram, which is a— a place my algorithm goes that I'm very grateful for, that also, like, not sort of overly manicuring your landscape, letting those flowers— you know, after they've wilted, they're not dead. Like, when the— when the blooms go away, and even when the plant, you know, won't regenerate, whether or not it's an annual one, and will come back in your— whether or not it's a perennial, and will come back in your yard, they're homes for bees, and mice, and squirrels, and moths, and all kinds of insects and plant life and microbial life in the soil that need some stuff to munch on, and keep it going. So by planting those flowers, letting them rest over the fall and winter, and keep your ground, you know, exciting and full of life, you're also doing your landscape a favor.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. That's true. That is very true. Also, you know, you say that you have a home-owning experience before, but this is the first time that you've had like a big yard and garden and stuff like that. It's okay for it not to look perfect.
DR. MOIYA: Hmm.
JULIA: My husband has been raised on the mindset of, like, suburbia in general, where it's like my front lawn needs to look manicured and perfect, and like green and lush, I'm like, "None of those plants are native, baby. We can just let it die and, you know, plant stuff that is, you know?" And it's been a little bit of a balancing act in trying to get him to, like, not cut the grass until June with no mow May. You know, like that kind of stuff is like really important. And if more people did that, then we would have much healthier, you know, communities in terms of the— the natural plants that live and grow here.
AMANDA: So enjoy some flowers, say hi to the bees, and do a little bit less when it comes to holding yourself to an exacting standard. I think that's advice we could all live with.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. That'd be nice, right? Yeah.
AMANDA: Well, let's turn next to Sazz, she/her, who wrote in also via email, spiritspodcast@gmail.com, who has another question for the gods. "Hi, folklorists. I've realized my older sibling is one of the main roots of childhood wounds, and we've seen a major not unrelated, but unaddressed break in our relationship recently. How do I let go of the anger at not being shown the love they show to everyone else around them without burning myself out? I'm tired of spending my energy on them, but I am in mourning at how I've never been good enough. Big love to you all, Sazz."
DR. MOIYA: Siblings are hard. And I think I channeled a god who could tell us how to handle it. And they say, "Sister Sazz, I'm a twin. People believe we're so similar, they even worship us as one figure. But we, like any siblings, are our own people. We are two individuals each trying to understand the other, and in doing so, can't help but project our own hopes and fears onto the person everyone assumes we know best. Before we were born, my brother Kehinde sent me his baby brother to assess the world, to see if it was good enough for him to enter. He had no idea what I would face, but he was willing to risk my young soul anyway. And I used to think he sent me because I was disposable. But now, I understand it says more about his fear. All that to say, Sazz, that your sibling's behavior doesn't mean you're not good enough. And when you accept that, I suspect you'll find, as I did, that your anger burns less bright. My brother and I made up once I stopped expecting him to be what I wanted and decided to meet who he truly was. Maybe you and your sibling can do the same. But never, dear Sazz, at the expense of your own peace. Your brother in spirit, Taiwo." Do you know Taiwo?
JULIA: I— I have heard of Taiwo in passing, but I'm excited to hear more Dr. McTier.
DR. MOIYA: Taiwo and Kehinde are two sacred twins from Nigerian Yoruba folklore. Kehinde is the older twin but legend says he sent younger Taiwo to be born first. So in Nigerian culture, the firstborn twin is said to be the youngest, so Kehinde sent Taiwo to determine if the world was beautiful enough for Kehinde to come through. And the twins are collectively represented by the Orisha Ibeji and they are the offspring of Oshun, who's the beautiful Orisha who looks after freshwaters. And Shango, the mighty, kind of womanizing Orisha of thunder, he's said to have many wives in— in mythology at different times and also at the same time. Because of this, all twins are said to be under Shango's protection and mistreating them is said to bring misfortune to you and your family, which is especially important, because in Yoruba lore, they have this form of reincarnation where you are born as a descendant of yourself. So any bad deeds you do in this life will negatively impact your family and thus, your soul when you're reborn later.
JULIA: Interesting.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. And so I thought Taiwo as a younger brother would— would be a good person to answer this question because he has had to go through the work of accepting that his older brother isn't always going to be the older brother you wish you had. I have siblings, but I didn't grow up with them. My younger brother who's eight years younger, we never lived together, but we've gotten a lot closer over the pandemic. And I've reckoned with the way that I wasn't a good older sister to him, because I was a kid at the time. And he saw me behaving in that way and thought that it's because I didn't like him, but it's just because I had my own things going on. So I think, Sazz—
AMANDA: Hmm.
DR. MOIYA: —what Taiwo here is trying to say is that you— you're— you're own two people, and you may be connected by blood, but that doesn't mean that you have to behave a certain way towards each other. It would be nice, of course, but unfortunately, it doesn't always end up being a good relationship, and that's sad, but okay.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: So true. And Moiya, I love the fact that you pointed out that all of these formative relationships, and memories—
DR. MOIYA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —and dynamics are made when your children with no agency or limited agency because you're living in someone else's family structure. And with, you know, a parent or parents who may or may not be making intentional choices, or have the, you know, ability to really shape meaningfully the way that they might want to, the way you guys interact, and how you're actually being brought up, and all kinds of stressors that impact each of you—
DR. MOIYA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —differently, based on gender and your personality, and your birth order, and what exactly is going on in the family at that time. Which is to say that the— the hurt can be really real, and I think that it's important to also forgive yourself, like Taiwo's sort of advice is getting at, that you, you know, didn't change things to accept that you wanted different or better than what you got and first sort of acknowledge that that pain is real, which it sounds like Sazz is going through and working really hard at, which I think is important. And finally, the next step to realize that everybody else was a kid too, and everybody else had limited agency. And in some ways, you are just kind of thrown together with these other strangers and you become the adults you become, and impact each other, but really need to re-meet each other as adults. And I— I wish to your point, Moiya, that like, you know, there was always a positive story, a happy ending a knitting together, a rediscovering. But sometimes the adults that your siblings grow into or your family grow into, the choices they make mean that a relationship is not possible.
JULIA: Yeah. Again, I am an only child, so it's very hard for me to feel like I can— I can speak on this a lot. But I think there is this idea that just because someone is a blood relative means that you have to work extra hard to maintain that relationship, and that is not necessarily always true. You don't need to feel a certain debt to them just because you share blood and you're from the same family or you were raised in the same household. Like that is a shared experience, but that doesn't mean you owe them anything in particular other than, you know, your reflection of what that time was like.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, family is complicated, and we all have to make decisions over and over again about whether or not it's worth it to maintain that relationship and put in the effort or protect our own peace. And I think it's especially difficult with siblings, because you go through so much together, you deal with your parents together, you, like, grow up in the same environment. But yeah, Julia, like you said, you don't owe them more than you owe other people just because they're related to you. You owe people more when they have demonstrated that you have this shared commitment to each other.
AMANDA: And I think really importantly, if— if they show you over and over again, that they don't respect your autonomy, they don't respect your boundaries, they don't respect your personhood, and that is the thing that I really had to ascertain. I know that each of you in your own way has as well to say like, "I'm an adult now and I have a voice, I have a vote, I have preferences and opinions." It can sometimes take people older than us more time than we'd like for them to realize that shifting role that we have as we grow up. And so, Sazz, a— a sort of option that is always available to you is to state the terms, or the conditions, or the boundaries that you need in order to have a relationship or to deepen a relationship. And I know that can be so terrifying to do, to say, you know, I would love to, you know, know you better. I would love to rekindle something, or to build something, or to re-meet, and this is what I need in order to do that. Sort of puts the ball in their court, whether or not they're going to do it or not. And that can be so terrifying as I'm saying it, I'm like— I'm like getting shivers of potential rejection down my spine. But it— it's— it can feel really freeing to state like this is not a mystery, it's not a surprise. This is not, you know, an enigma. It is very clearly, you know, what I would need from you in order to, you know, resume where we build a relationship. And when that is worth the real effort it takes on your part is completely up to you. And there's no wrong answer.
JULIA: Hot damn. Families are tough.
AMANDA: Moiya, thank you so much for bringing us Taiwo's advice. This next question from Antioxidant on Instagram, perhaps a little less weighty, but a lot more sharp, and you'll see what I mean in a second. So they write, "I'm coming to a sword fighting tournament for the first time this year. What do I do to prepare?"
JULIA: I feel a little bit bad because this has been sitting in our inbox for a while now, so that tournament has probably already happened. But for people who are looking forward to something like this in the near future, here's a— an answer for you. "So you're a sword fighter, hmm? I have met many people in my life, mostly men, who believed that they could defeat me on the field of combat. Once I defeated three of them in one night because I kissed a woman that they were all attempting to court. I have no excuse, really, she was rather beautiful, and I am always itching for a fight. Here's what I've learned from years of fencing, and duels, and exhibitions of my skill. Confidence is key. Overconfidence will ruin you. I have been training since I was a child, so I know that I'm not good. Walking into a room and being able to size up who I can take and who I can't is a skill that I have honed over the years. And here's the thing, practice is one of the few things that makes someone good. A certain level of skill comes naturally to some people, but anyone who works on their footwork, their range, their strike, their parry, their blocking will be able to overcome someone who has not put in the work. Someone who is overconfident will leave open vulnerabilities. Look at them, read your opponent, be efficient, tire out your opponent, wait for them to make mistakes, but prepare, prepare, prepare. Then you'll have that confidence that you deserve. Be swift and be confident from yours, Julie."
AMANDA: Our favorite bisexual?
JULIA: Yes. So, Julie d'Aubigny, also known as La Maupin is an actual person from history, but so much of her life has been kind of fictionalized, that she has become the sort of character of folklore as much as she is a historic person.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: She famously would disguise herself as a man, had relationships with both men and women, killed a man in a duel, stole a dead body, and committed arson just so she could fuck a nun and also fake her own death. She was an opera singer for some time. She fought three duels in one evening because she openly kissed a young woman at a ball, like I mentioned.
AMANDA: Dang.
JULIA: And eventually, joined a convent and died at the age of 33.
AMANDA: 33, all that life?
JULIA: All that before 33. So she is straight up one of my favorite historical/semi-historical figures, and she just had to be the one to answer this question. I know there's a lot of other great sword fighters in mythology. There's Siegfried from Germanic mythology, there's Peleus in Greek, Minamoto no Yorimitsu and Susanoo from Japanese legend, et cetera, et cetera. But I just— I saw this and I got really excited, so you get an answer from Julie herself for this one.
AMANDA: How lucky are we?
DR. MOIYA: Uh-hmm. To talk to your favorite bisexual.
JULIA: I know, just being able to channel her, like the ghost just kind of hovered over me and like move my hands, you know? She didn't really know how— what typing was, but—
DR. MOIYA: It was a joint effort.
JULIA: It was, it was, really.
AMANDA: So from Julie and the three of us, from four bisexuals throughout history, how— how can we advise them on their upcoming sword fighting tournaments? And I think anyone who's learning a new skill and starting to sort of advance a level or maybe go into a setting where you are being judged or seeing other people see you for the first time.
JULIA: With Julie's answer, I think thinking about competition in particular when you're learning a new skill set, and knowing that you need to be confident but not too confident is a really interesting, like, piece of advice in general. Sometimes people are just naturally skilled at stuff, but I do think that like you can overcome not having a natural skill by practicing it, and practicing it, and practicing. What's the saying about like, you know, it takes 10,000 hours to become a master at something?
AMANDA: That's Malcolm Gladwell junk pop science, but point taken.
JULIA: Yes, no, I— I know that's not a true thing that is actually true, but I do like this idea of like, yeah, you can be like really good at, like, painting, for example, like just naturally a very artistic person. But if you never, like, actually practice the medium, and like learn skill set, and like learn like technique and stuff like that, you'll never get any better. And there's only a certain amount of distance that natural skill can take you.
DR. MOIYA: Something I had to realize as a fundamentally, like, head-based intellectual person who in the past tried to do a lot of physical-based competitions. I played rugby, I was a D1 varsity rugby player in college.
JULIA: Moiya, what? That's incredible.
AMANDA: I don't think I knew that.
JULIA: What?
DR. MOIYA: A little— a fun little Moiya nugget.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: That's what— the best part about these episodes is the fun little Moiya nuggets that we get.
AMANDA: Truly. Damn.
DR. MOIYA: I was not the— the best, most physical, strongest, fastest rugby player, but what I gained from each competition, I found really valuable. Like, I tried to learn a lesson in each game, whether I won or lost. And I think that's a really important mindset to take into a competition, especially a physical one. Learn for sword fighting, you know, figure out where to look at your opponent to see if they're going to pair your thrust. Like, I don't know, that's the extent of my sword fighting knowledge. But if you go into it just wanting to win and knowing you'll be disappointed if you lose, that's setting yourself up for sadness. Go and expecting to learn something new that you can take on to your next competition, no matter how this one goes.
JULIA: In my mind, Moiya, you— you say that and I just pictured like every anime, like, fight or competition show, and like being like, "Did you see the way that he held his hand right before that shot?"
DR. MOIYA: Yes.
JULIA: "That means he's gonna go this way or that way, and I— I love that.
DR. MOIYA: That's what I was hoping you would imagine, so great.
JULIA: Nailed it.
DR. MOIYA: Language works.
AMANDA: In the last few months, I have gotten really serious about returning to a yoga practice, it's helpful for me as a head-based person, as well to be forced to reckon with the effect that my body has on my thoughts and vice versa.
DR. MOIYA: Hmm.
AMANDA: It's great for me, because when the yoga teacher does this sort of yoga stuff of like having you, you know, set an intention for the practice, or at the end of class, they'll often ask, like, you know, think about what you want to leave behind and what you want to take with you going forward into the day. I'm like, "Yeah, man, I really do need that." But even more than that, I have learned to really accept and recognize that, like, I am bringing something different every time. And the class is gonna be a little different, my body is going to be a little different. The same exercise I do, using the left side of my body is going to feel different on the right side. My right side may surprise me with how strong I'm able to— to hold a pose, right, or like how easy I find something and the left is totally different. And something that was easy for me two weeks ago might be really challenging today. And it has been really wonderful for me to set a sort of benchmark for me. Like you're saying, Moiya, like there is a lesson and a takeaway a thing I can notice every single time. And so I'm not sure exactly how this applies to competition, but it's not always about beating a personal best even. Like, that's what I— you know, I heard in high school. It's like, "Well, if you— you know, if you try your hardest, if you do better than last time, that's— that's great." But I think if I'm coming in, you know, today, and I'm having such a hard time saying— you know, staying still, and I managed to stay really still to find moments of peace, to find moments of real presence, during the practice, that's amazing. And if another time, I'm feeling so strong, and I want to be able to balance, or to lift, or to hold a pose a couple seconds longer, that might be my goal for the day. And nobody knows that but me and no one can congratulate me on that, but me. But it's been— it's been a fun way of like feeling strong and learning to trust myself, even when I might not match the exact record that I had last week.
JULIA: I like that, though, you know? Because the idea of like you constantly have to get better is something that feels so, like—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —American capitalism to me, and it's like, maybe I can just enjoy myself, and that's the real win of this competition or this event, or this thing that I'm doing, you know?
AMANDA: I totally agree.
DR. MOIYA: Do it for the joy.
JULIA: Do it for the joy.
AMANDA: Folks, let's head on into the kitchen and refill our drinks, and come back with even more Advice from Folklore.
JULIA: Sounds good.
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AMANDA: Hello, hello, everybody, it's Amanda. I am so excited to tell you that if you have not yet gotten tickets to The Rolling Bones Tour, to me, and Julia, and Brandon, and Eric live in seven cities across the US the last week of March, you gotta. We want to do more live shows, we want to do more touring. We want to see more of you IRL. And in order to make that happen, you got to help us make this test tour a success, okay? So go to spiritspodcast.com/live and grab your tickets now. If you don't live in those cities, that's okay. Text friends who do. We need your help to spread the word, you don't have to know who we are or what our podcasts are about to enjoy the entertainment, we promise. spiritspodcast.com/live. Thank you so very much to those of you who have joined our Patreon in the last week. Thank you to Lizardo, Sarah, Pameler, MusicChicaMia, and RJ. We so appreciate your support. We also want to thank our supporting producer-level patrons, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Arianna, Ginger Spurs Boi, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Nathan, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, and Scott. If you'd like to join these folks and become a patron where you can get access to hundreds of recipe cards, bonus episodes, and more, go to patreon.com/spiritspodcast. Lots of good stuff going on at Multitude these days, including new episodes of Pale Blue Pod. A fabulous astronomy podcast for people who are kind of overwhelmed by the universe, but want to be its friend. Where astrophysicist Dr. Moiya McTier, our guest today, and comedian Corinne Caputo demystify space one topic at a time. If you love the attitude that Moiya brings to these episodes, you are absolutely going to love Pale Blue Pod, I promise. So look up Pale Blue Pod in your podcast app, or go to palebluepod.space. We are sponsored this week by Marley Spoon. Now, I have tried meal kits before. I felt like I wasn't really the target audience for them because I already like cooking and I like flavors. I feel like I have good instincts for it. I'm not learning to cook, at least me, personally. And it has also felt like not necessarily the kind of meals that I would want to eat. A lot of like sour cream and like random chili powder, which is fine. But I was really pleasantly surprised by the kinds of meals that came from Marley Spoon. I really liked their Martha Stewart line, they're very, very good meals, and you know, they're absolute incredible. They also teach me cooking techniques that I haven't yet tried. There is poached salmon, for example. Never poached before, that was very cool. And butternut squash gnocchi, which I never made. Very, very cool. I really appreciate that I get to try new flavors and new techniques with Marley Spoon. You're also not really locked in long term to these kinds of boxes. They have a flexible subscription plan that lets you edit, pause, or cancel your boxes any time. So experience the most personalized meal kit out there with Marley Spoon. Head to MarleySpoon.com/offer/spirits and use code Spirits for up to 25 free meals. That's right up to 25 free meals with Marley Spoon. One last time, that's MarleySpoon.com/offer/spirits for up to 25 free meals. And make sure you use that promo code Spirits, so they know we sent you. We are also sponsored this week by our friends at Shaker & Spoon. To put very simply, they help you make great drinks. Now, they sell subscription boxes or one-time gifts or one-time boxes that let you become a mixologist, just like the award-winning mixologist that helped them make these recipes for bar quality cocktails. They're all about exposing you to new flavors and combinations, and demonstrating a range of what each spirit can do. For example, the box slated to ship the first week of March, so the next box is all about the Ballad of Irish Whiskey. Now, despite being Irish and a lover of whiskey, I feel like I tend to drink whiskey straight or, you know, try a couple of like simple combinations. And what I love most about Shaker & Spoon is it really expands my palate and my worldview as to what each spirit can be and do. And man, the things they come with, like the sugar mixes and the, you know, extra like mists, like they're a tiny, little vaporizer bottles you can like missed like a flavor on top, so good. The team is so kind, and you can get $20 off your first box from Shaker & Spoon if you go to shakerandspoon.com/cool. They're absolutely the best drink subscription box out there. If you want to level up your home mixology, you got to try them. Go to shakerandspoon.com/cool. And now, let's get back to the show.
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JULIA: We are back. And Moiya, as always, I'd love to check in with you and ask hey, what drinks have you been enjoying lately, alcoholic, non-alcoholic, coffee creations, et cetera, et cetera?
DR. MOIYA: Hmm.
JULIA: What's— what's been up your alley lately or in your cup?
DR. MOIYA: My mom, for Christmas, gave me little satchels of pre-made chai mix with, like, real cloves, and cinnamon sticks, and star anise and everything. And so I've been drinking— it makes like a concentrate and then I can add in whatever milky product I want. That's been my morning routine lately, is making a little iced chai.
JULIA: I love that. Our Keurig broke, and so I have been going through the extra effort of waking up a little bit earlier than usual and making myself French press coffee, which is a big deal for me, because I don't like cleaning up French press all that much. But I am making the effort, and I'm doing that on a daily basis, and I'm very proud of myself for that. So I feel you, where it's like there's something a little bit more meditative about making your, like, morning drink and it's like a little bit more labor intensive, so I— I am super into that. I love that. Thanks mom.
AMANDA: I'm obsessed with that. A place opens near us that is like an all-day bar cafe. They start serving— I don't know when they start serving alcohol, but they're open in the morning but it is essentially a bar. And so you can go in and get like an espresso tonic or like a— a cool latte and sit in this like wallpaper, sort of like Victorian parlor aesthetic room.
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: I'm obsessed with it. And I have been really getting into the, like— they have a drink that is espresso tonic and grapefruit juice, that— when I heard that combo, I was like, "Say what now?" But it is really good. It is like light, and fruity, and refreshing with like a little bite of caffeine espresso, oh, so delicious.
JULIA: That sounds dope. I'm into that.
DR. MOIYA: I want to know what the mind looks like of the person who came up with that, because I would look at that ingredient list and go like, "Oh, no."
AMANDA: I know, I'd be like never, never. They also have Margarita Al Pastor with, like—
DR. MOIYA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —pineapple, no pork, just pineapple, and like Mezcal. But I was like, "Wait, what? Like I'm— I'm down, but tell me how," was my first reaction.
JULIA: I would probably try it if it had some sort of pork in it.
AMANDA: I would very much try it. Like a pork fat bacon wash.
JULIA: Wash, yeah.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Exactly. I would probably try it, I'll be honest.
AMANDA: We'll have to just do it for ourselves, Julia. Alright, folks. Well, with our chai and iced espresso and French press coffee in hand, let's turn now to an email from Lean, he/him. "Hey, everybody, I'm a huge fan and today, coming to you for advice. What can I do if I always feel like there's something missing in my job? I used to have a great job I loved. It was entertaining and mildly well paid, and I did precisely what I liked. But while I was working there, there was an opportunity to grow, and I took it. However, the new job was very tedious, not as related to my passions, and sadly, I had a terrible boss, so I decided to leave when yet another opportunity arrived. At my new company, I earn a lot more and I'm learning a lot, but I'm really not satisfied, because I'm working for another industry that's not as exciting. So I still feel like something is missing. I'm having a really hard time because I've tried to talk about this with some friends who just say I'm being ungrateful and picky, so now I'm wondering if I'm the problem. What should I do?""
JULIA: First off—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —those friends suck if they're telling you that you're being—
AMANDA: No, no, no.
JULIA: —ungrateful and picky.
DR. MOIYA: Right? No, no, no, no, no.
AMANDA: No, no, no.
DR. MOIYA: I read that, and a voice immediately started screaming in my head. She said, "Young man, don't you dare let anyone tell you you're wrong for wanting more in your life than what your job can provide. I was grateful for my job, for the opportunity to gain new skills and support my country, as I'm sure you're grateful to have a job that pays you. That doesn't change the fact that it's a job. Your employer owes you a paycheck, not a sense of fulfillment and labor is not always satisfying. I love picking up my drill every morning. It makes me feel strong and capable, but I'm just as excited to put it down in the evening so I can pick up my piping bag and flex the creative muscles I neglected all day at the factory. I love to decorate cakes, you see. All that freedom to choose colors or designs to add a little flourish on someone's happy birthday message, there's just nothing like that at work. You're not being ungrateful, Lean, but it is up to you to seek out what's missing and grab it for yourself. You can do it. Rosie, the cake artist who gets paid to rivet."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah. When you started talking and I'm like, "Oh, my God." I'm so excited.
AMANDA: Moiya, how did the American folklore figure of Rosie the Riveter find you?
DR. MOIYA: I don't know. She was floating in the ether, just ready to give advice to someone who had, I think, grandiose expectations of what our— our jobs can do for us because of capitalist messaging and propaganda. Like, there's a reason—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
DR. MOIYA: —we think that we should be able to have total fulfillment in our lives from our jobs working 48-plus hours a week. Rosie was ready to push back on that because she understands what it's like to live under that capitalist messaging. Rosie the Riveter is this American cultural icon from World War Two. She is, for sure, a piece of folklore because she was created to be the face of women factory workers while the men were fighting in the war. She's not a real person. She is a legend that was created by a marketing machine.
JULIA: Yep, classic.
DR. MOIYA: I know, right? She comes from an iconic poster designed by a Pittsburgh artist. Woo. Go, Pittsburgh. He was named J. Howard Miller and—
AMANDA: Nice.
DR. MOIYA: —he created a poster for Westinghouse Electric Corporation in 1942. And the next year, Redd Evans and John Jacob Loeb released a song called Rosie the Riveter and the woman on the poster got her name.
JULIA: Such good names.
DR. MOIYA: Those are such good names. Yeah. I— I didn't realize that it was these two separate events that created the Rosie the Riveter character.
AMANDA: Me neither, no. I thought that was her name.
DR. MOIYA: Me, too.
JULIA: Yeah. I figured they had her little name on a slogan underneath that poster, be like, "Rosie the Riveter says go to the factories."
DR. MOIYA: No, it was after the song and then they started calling those women Rosies and then the— the character was cemented. The poster, it was initially a propaganda—
AMANDA: Hmm.
DR. MOIYA: —to discourage women from striking.
JULIA: Don't love that.
DR. MOIYA: Because they were doing all of these hard labor jobs. There weren't unions for women, and they put posters in the factory to be like, you know, "Be grateful for your job. You shouldn't strike.:
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Uncle Sam says, "If you strike, then the boys across the seas will die."
DR. MOIYA: Yup.
AMANDA: Damn.
DR. MOIYA: It's that kind of pressure. But then after the poster was distributed nationally in the '80s, she became a feminist symbol because it was like this woman doing the work that people thought only a man could do. And so I love her as a folklore figure that has this transition of meaning, and that is associated with labor unions and with— with feminism. She's not a real person. Let's get that clear. But the image was at least inspired by a real person, and it has not been a straightforward journey in figuring out who that initial model was. There was an "investigation", quote-unquote, according to Business Insider in the 2000s.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Okay, good Business Insider. Alright.
DR. MOIYA: It's a very serious mystery afoot, and we need to get to the bottom of it. And it was determined that the model was likely a waitress named Naomi Parker Fraley.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: Ooh.
DR. MOIYA: So Rosie the Riveter, she's a deeper character than— than you think she is, and she wants you to realize that your life has deeper meaning beyond just what your job can do for you.
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, the answer to this advice that Rosie has put so perfectly is shorthand work-life balance.
DR. MOIYA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: That's what you need, is a work-life, balance. The idea that, like, the thing that you spend a lot of your day doing as your quote-unquote "job" is the only thing that should bring you fulfillment is nonsense and a capitalistic nightmare. But we need to have a balance, you need to be able to leave work at work, and have things that you enjoy and give you purpose and meaning, whether that is relationships with family or loved ones, or like hobbies, or like, you know, friendships and stuff like that. Those are the things that are supposed to bring you joy. And this idea that like everyone needs to have exactly the right job for them and purpose in that job, is a labor fallacy.
DR. MOIYA: Exactly right. Uh-hmm. I think the three of us recognize that we're super lucky that we get to do a job that we pretty much designed.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
DR. MOIYA: And I don't want to speak for you, but even I— like I need to do things that are completely disconnected from my job in order to, like, recharge.
JULIA: A 100%. We are— we're so fortunate that we got to choose these jobs for ourselves, create these jobs for ourselves. But at the same time, like if I had to just think about podcasting 24 hours a day, I would die.
AMANDA: Please don't. Yes.
DR. MOIYA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Because it's still my job. People say all the time that, you know, if you find a job you love, you'll never work a day in your life, and that is absolute bullshit, and it drives me crazy every time I hear it.
AMANDA: Punch them in the mouth.
JULIA: Punch them in the mouth if someone says that to you because it's a lie. It's a blatant lie, you know?
AMANDA: It is, and it's a— it's a— like intentionally crafted lie by capitalism to make you do more than you're paid to do. And Lean, I don't want you to feel silly for following it, like you are following the advice that probably everybody around you is giving you. And I think you should be really proud of yourself that you have realized like, "Wait, I don't think more is better. Hang on, I don't think that advancing just to advance or, you know, moving up, whether that's in your earnings, or your job title, or the kind of organization you work in, or the kind of industry you work in, you are following what society is telling you, and you should be very, very grateful and proud of yourself that you've realized that's not necessarily for you. I think it's really important to decide what you need and be okay with meeting it. There's a certain amount of money you need to live, there is a certain amount of fulfillment or not terribleness you need to seek out at work to get by. And having a job that's just okay, and there are some ups and downs. It gives you enough money and it pays for the rest of your life to do what it is that you want to do. All the hours are not at work is great. And you should be really happy if that's what you get. And I— yeah, I totally agree. Like having a job that is aligned with your purpose is a wonderful privilege and has its own ups and downs. And so I think you are not being ungrateful. I think you're not being picky. I think you're trying to design a life that you're content in and what you do for work and how much it pays or doesn't pay you, is a huge part of that.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. For sure. And I think at the end of the day, where also like all animals in zoo enclosures, and especially in our jobs, and if your job is not giving you the enrichment that you need. You know, you're not— you're not getting the— I don't know, ball— rubber ball full of peanut butter if I'm a—or full of meat if I'm a tiger in a zoo.
AMANDA: The fish frozen in a snowball for the polar bears. I know, I know.
JULIA: Exactly. Then it's not going to be a good experience for you. And I— it seems like the job that you were at previously, was giving you that enrichment where it didn't feel like it was, you know, just so mundane. You didn't feel maybe like bored or you didn't feel like— you know, now you don't feel engaged with the work. You want a job that is going to make you feel engaged, even if like the work is not something you're passionate about, it should at least be like using your mind in a way that feels right and correct, if that makes sense.
AMANDA: Or with coworkers who are your comrades and, you know, maybe the work you're doing isn't like the most meaningful in the world, but you can make meaning and make relationships with those co-workers. However, it is, you deserve to feel contented, and I think that Rosie gives us a really great reminder. I love, Moiya, that she signed off as the cake artist who gets paid to rivet, because your income, your purpose, and feeling like you are giving back a part of something bigger in community with people are all things that you can check. And there are— there's no limit apart from sort of the hours in the day as to where you can get those things. You do not have to get that meaning from work. If you do, that's wonderful. And if you don't, that's totally okay.
JULIA: Yeah, a 100%. I agree. Work-life balance baby, you know? Work-life, balance.
AMANDA: And hey, soft butch icon, Naomi Parker Fraley, A plus.
DR. MOIYA: Thank you. Yeah.
AMANDA: Alright, folks. Let's turn to Sammy, who wrote in via email, and Sammy writes, "Ever since I graduated college and entered the "real adult world", in scare quotes, I've struggled with resenting my to-do list of basic adult tasks. As a student, there was always a point where my homework would be done, even if it felt never-ending at times, there was a real finish line each week, each semester, where I could say, "I'd done all the work for the week or the class." In life, there's no finish line for that to-do list. As I complete various adulting tasks, new ones are continuously added, and there's always something next to do. I get that this is just part of living, but it gives me an overwhelming sense of never being finished. I have a hard time relaxing because I want to feel like I've done everything before I get to kick back. Do the gods have any advice about how to come to terms with the fact that we'll always have tasks and chores to do? Thank you, Amanda, Julia, and Dr. McTier, signed Sammy, aka cursed completionist student dropped into the real world."
DR. MOIYA: This is so real. You're so real for asking this, Sammy.
JULIA: I've got one for this one. "Sammy, you mortals often refer to time being a river, which I don't necessarily disagree with, but it is not quite right. Time may flow like waters do, but rivers start and end, time does not. It flows like water, like the eternal and primordial waters of Nu. It is constantly moving. Though, the way that the currents move and shift change as the moon wanes and waxes, and the tide pulls towards the shore and then away again. Time is always moving, yes, of course, it is. Water can be calm, but it is never without motion. There are times where it can feel like a flood as wave, after wave hits you. There are times where it can feel like gently lapping waves, peaceful and quiet where the waters are kind. Time is like anything, it changes just like everything else. In the times when it feels like the waters will sweep you away, know that around the bend might be a sandbar, a patch of shallows, or a gently swirling pool. You can linger in those moments, knowing that the water will still have to keep moving, but you can catch your breath there. As you so astutely pointed out, there is always more beyond the present, and this is just a part of living. But just because the waters keep moving does not mean that you must drown. Take a moment to float, to allow the current to carry you in times when they are calm. The waters are infinite, time never ends, and that can be overwhelming. But wishing it otherwise will not dry up the waters and it will not help you navigate them. You will survive, and keep swimming, and find rest when you can. Yours infinitely, Heh." If you've been following our Egyptian mythology series, you might remember Heh. He is the personification of the infinite waters of Nu. Those are, as you might remember, the primordial chaos waters that existed before the creation of the world. And his name originally meant flood, but later came to represent like million or millions, especially in relation to time, so he's specifically referred to as the god of millions of years. He is usually portrayed as human, but sometimes as a frog or frog-headed, and he's usually shown holding a palm stem in his hands, which is representative of long life. And I think that he's a really interesting one to answer this because there's not like really a time God necessarily in ancient Egyptian religion, but he is both like the millions of years and also these primordial waters, and I really liked this kind of imagery of the river of time, but also this idea that it's not exactly a river of time. It's more of like these chaotic waters that could go this way and that way. And finding a moment's peace in those waters—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —is sometimes difficult, but I think that his advice kind of stands, where it's like, you take those moments where you can, when life allows them, and you try to embody those as much as possible.
AMANDA: Moiya, you balance so many projects that have either very long deadlines or deadlines you set for yourself.
DR. MOIYA: Hmm.
AMANDA: I'm really curious about your take on this question.
DR. MOIYA: For work, it's easy for me. For life, it's really hard. I have trouble feeding myself every day, and remembering to, like, shower and do laundry. That's—that's way harder than doing something— or many things for work because I have accountability for work. I have clients that I need to answer to, deadlines that I need to meet so that I get paid. There's no deadline for— for making myself dinner.
JULIA: Well, Moiya, there is, but it's called starvation.
DR. MOIYA: You're right. You're right. The deadline is a week away, and I know the person who's holding that deadline, she's not serious about enforcing this.
JULIA: What a big ADHD mood, huh?
DR. MOIYA: Yes. Yes. Honestly, it— it has been really helpful to look up ADHD influencers online and see different coping mechanisms and strategies that they have for this. The only thing I've been able to do is try as much as possible to stock my apartment, stock my home with things that make the hard stuff as easy as possible.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
DR. MOIYA: I have trouble feeding myself, I've surrounded myself with, like healthy-ish snacks that give me the nutrition I need, that I don't need to prepare. I have trouble, like, figuring out when to shower, and so I will try and set meetings with people in person, so I have to shower before I go meet them. And whenever I can set up some sort of external accountability, that helps. But I think maybe the most helpful thing for me has just been accepting that it's okay to struggle with this. It does not make me any less of an adult. It does not make me less like competent. It's okay to struggle with this.
AMANDA: A thousand percent, yeah. Everybody struggles with this to one degree or another, or if this comes easy to them, something else doesn't. And I think that's so easy to overlook when we don't talk about it, which I think our— our generation is getting better at doing than ones before us. And also when— you know, you only see people when they are feeling their most, you know, alert and ready, and showered for the meeting and, like, fed for the day. And they're— they are on the bus because they got themselves to go on the bus, and other days, maybe they can't do that. And so you are— you are so normal for this one. I— I promise you. You really, really are, Sammy. And I think, too, that realizing that the piece that you may have taken for granted before is really hard one and being proud of yourself for doing the things you did, knowing that there are— there is always more to do, but trusting that your future self can take care of it, might be a sort of mind frame that is useful to you. I think, for me, I like I underestimate myself, I underestimate my own ability to deal with things in the future to figure something out, to make sure that, you know, given the right resources, I— I can do it. And I almost want to, like, save myself the pain of— or like a burden of doing something by getting it all done right now. But I typically have like two things that helped me with this. One of which is to say, "I need this to function at my best. I need this rest, this meal, this break, this, you know, night out, where I think about nothing, except like my hobbies in order to bring my best self to the rest of my life." Or that I will figure it out and me in the future will figure things out, and knowing that I don't need to do it all right now because I've got my own back. Does that make any sense at all?
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
JULIA: No, that totally makes sense. I think there is something to be said about recognizing the moments where something that is, like, on your to-do list, one of your, quote-unquote "adulting things," it can wait for a day, it can wait for a week, it can wait for like however long it needs to wait until you have that energy again to do it. And whether that's like, yeah, I need to do laundry but just like my day is too hectic for me to actually do— like dedicate the time to do laundry or it's like, yeah, the dishes in the sink are piling up but, you know, there's just like, I don't have the energy to do that right now. It is okay to like let things float down the river and then get to them when you get to them, you know?
AMANDA: Triaging the to-do list and figuring out what is absolutely necessary for today and what is not can be really difficult for folks who are very— hold themselves to a high standard, but it's necessary. And the more you do it, the better you get at it. And I'm really proud of you Sammy, for doing that.
JULIA: Yeah, it's— it's a kindness to yourself, and you deserve that.
DR. MOIYA: And you don't have to do it perfectly, or happily.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Yes.
DR. MOIYA: I do a lot of things mad.
AMANDA: You can do so much mad.
JULIA: You can do it out of spite.
DR. MOIYA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: You can bundle things and bribe yourself. I— I read a new book and have a fancy coffee when I do laundry, because I need to wait in the laundry for 45 minutes, I'm going to do it with a good book and a coffee. I'm going to do it, and that's how I make myself do it.
JULIA: As you deserve.
DR. MOIYA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: Those are all the questions that our listeners had for us and all the wisdom that the gods have to dispense for today at least. Dr. Moiya McTier, thank you so much for joining us back on Advice from Folklore. Moiya, tell the people what you are up to these days and where they can check it out?
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. I love coming back to this. I am still doing Exolore and Pale Blue Pod and the Multitude Collective.
AMANDA: Hey.
DR. MOIYA: I am working on book number two, which I think is the big update since the last Advice from Folklore.
JULIA: Woo. Exciting.
DR. MOIYA: And this one is going to be more folklore-y. It's a history of invention and science, but told from the perspectives of the nine Greek muses, so—
AMANDA: Yes. Moiya. Oh, God.
JULIA: So good.
AMANDA: So good.
DR. MOIYA: Thank you. I actually have to write it, just the hard part.
JULIA: It'll be fun.
DR. MOIYA: The idea-making was fun.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
DR. MOIYA: And now I have to actually do the thing I got paid to do.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. That's always the struggle, huh?
AMANDA: Incredible.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
AMANDA: And you remain @GoAstroMo on the socials?
DR. MOIYA: Yes, thank you. On— on all the socials, I am still active on Twitter, but I'm becoming more active on Instagram these days.
AMANDA: Hell yeah. And follow the Pale Blue Pod Instagram, which Moiya's collaborator Corinne, tends to run but features incredibly photoshopped photos of Moiya and Corinne on a weekly basis.
DR. MOIYA: What do you mean? Those are very real photos. Amanda, we're just extremely consistent with our— our makeup and clothing.
JULIA: The photo shoots, it's so impressive.
AMANDA: I'm— Moiya, I'm very proud of how you keep your hair the same length to the millimeter week after week, proud of you.
DR. MOIYA: It's not easy.
JULIA: Moiya, thank you again so much for joining us. And remember, listeners, next time you need a little bit of advice from something a little bit more defined, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
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