Episode 279: Advice from Folklore VIII (with Dr. Moiya McTier)
/The gods are on the line, and we’re asking them for advice. We discuss “no, for now”, chaos gods give advice on finding order in life, and a living island tells you to live life at your own pace.
Thread about Perspective Memory
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of relationships, romantic rejection, pregnancy/birth, rejection/failure, queerbaiting, mental illness, classism, and body horror.
Guest
Dr. Moiya McTier is a New York-based astrophysicist who studies planets outside of our solar system. She’s also a folklorist who specializes in using science and logic to build fictional worlds. You can hear all about the worlds she’s built on her podcast, Exolore, where she imagines, discusses, and reviews fictional worlds, often with expert guests. You can learn more about Moiya and her work on her website, moiyamctier.com.
Housekeeping
- MERCH! Preorder the Tarot Tee Shirt and get your other merch at spiritspodcast.com/merch!
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends Our Flag Means Death on HBOMax.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out HORSE: A podcast about ridiculous stories, internet drama, and some of the biggest and baddest personalities out there today—all from the world of basketball.
Sponsors
- Doordash is a fast, convenient food delivery app. Get 25% off and zero delivery fees on your first order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and enter code spirits.
- Skillshare is an online learning community where you can learn—and teach—just about anything. Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com/spirits and get a free trial of Premium Membership. This week Julia recommends “Baking for Beginners” with Shivesh Bhatia.
- BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits
Find Us Online
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests’ books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
DR. MOIYA: And I'm Moiya!
AMANDA: Oh, hey! And this is Episode 279. Another edition of Advice From Folklore.
JULIA: Oh, it's always nice to hear Moiya in the chat being like, Oh, hey guys, I'm gonna like drop some real metaphysical truths on you. Is that cool? And we're like, yes, Moya. Thank you.
DR. MOIYA: I look forward to this. Like every month. It's one of my favorite things to record. I love it.
JULIA: Yay. That makes us happy and it's one of our favorite things to record as well.
DR. MOIYA: Yay!
AMANDA: Well, as much as I love hanging out with y'all and shooting the shit like listen, daylight has saved, all right? It is- it is spring there is more light outside. My body tells me it's 1 PM but the clock says it's noon. So let's put our time to good use and help the people shall we?
JULIA: Let's do it.
AMANDA: All right. This is titled, Afraid to Crush a Crush from Norppa on Instagram.
“I’m afraid of ruining the friendship I have with my crush, but want to tell her. Help would be great.”
DR. MOIYA:
My dear Norppa,
Your heart must feel so heavy with this burden, this secret you’re holding within yourself. Many of the hearts I’ve seen weighed against my feather have been similarly encumbered by their own secrets, and I do not wish this fate for you. Withholding the truth most often leads to oblivion in the pit of a crocodile’s stomach. I tried to get the pharaohs to understand this when I counseled them. Most of them took my advice and used it to bring order to their empires. But some of them were too stubborn.
Do not be like the stubborn pharaohs who insisted on biting their tongues. Speak your truth and lighten your heart’s load. You never know what the outcome will be. Your admission could create space for a great romance to bloom. If not, it wasn’t meant to be. And if your friendship isn’t strong enough to survive your confession, it’s not worth mourning forever.
No matter the outcome, you owe it to yourself to keep your heart free from the weight of lies and omission. When the time comes to measure the balance of your soul, I don’t want to see it bearing this mark.
Harmoniously yours,
Ma’at
AMANDA: Yay. Yeah, one of my favorite images from folklore is the wing of the feather.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
JULIA: Beautiful.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, very evocative because you know, whose heart is actually lighter than a feather? Hopefully, hopefully ours are. But in case you haven't heard of Maat, she is the primordial Egyptian force of truth, justice, harmony, and balance the concept of Maat drove the Ancient Egyptians to seek and maintain both balance and order in their world. And this was a concept of very big concept that was personified as the goddess Maat who was said to be the motherless daughter of Ra or Atum, who was the big sun god in Egyptian Mythology, and Maat appeared when the sun gods spoke the world into existence way back at the beginning of time as a goddess Maat was depicted as a beautiful young woman who sometimes sported wings under her arms and often wore a white ostrich feather on her head. And this feather was the same that was used to judge the souls or hearts of the dead if their hearts were found to be heavier than the feather of justice than the dead would be devoured by Amutt who was this kind of chimeric creature with the head of a crocodile. And if you got swallowed by Amutt, then you would cease to exist forever, your soul would just stop. But if your heart was balanced with the feather, then your soul was allowed to continue its journey through the afterlife, and there were lots of different options, different choices that it can make. Maat's other duties included accompanying Ra in his solar barge as he sailed across the sky and advising Pharaohs so that they could keep this balance of order. And in some stories, Maat is married to Thoth or Thoth [3:53], who has responded to a previous advice from folklore question, he is the god of writing and medicine and together in those stories where they're married, they are said to have eight children who become the gods of the city, Thermopolis that had this like really interesting cult where those eight gods were said to be like the creators of the universe. So Maat has a lot of really cool stuff going on.
JULIA: Oh, does she?
AMANDA: Love her.
JULIA: She's like so important and like is like the balance and harmony aspect of just the cosmology of Ancient Egypt and I love her so much. Also, Amutt is my favorite like combinations of animals because like you said, crocodile head but also hippo body and also jackal body, incredible!
AMANDA: Adorable, I want to I want to plushie Amutt.
JULIA: I bet that exists in the universe.
DR. MOIYA: And if it doesn't, we can make that happen.
AMANDA: I do also just want to request, Julia, you're you're one of my members of my bridal party. Can you just arrange a solar barge for my for my bachelorette? Would that be doable?
JULIA: Solar barge, love that for you. It's just basically a sunrise cruise instead of a sunset cruise. But I'm into it.
DR. MOIYA: Well, the barge would also go into the underworld at the end of the day, so it's true.
JULIA: You are you into that, Amanda, do you want to do that, too?
AMANDA: It sounds like a combination of the East River Fairy and it's a small world, which, which I find quite satisfying. But Moiya, I loved this advice. I love the images that you touched on. What do you think spoke to Maat in this question?
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. So I felt a call to this question because I had a similar conundrum. My partner and I were friends for a long time before we started dating. And I actually made the decision to tell him that I had feelings in an Uber pool on the way to a party we were both attending.
AMANDA: Yay.
JULIA: Moiya, were there other people in the car?
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, yes, that's, that's the point. So I was going to this party, I had been feeling feelings for a while. And I like, Norppa, didn't want to ruin the friendship we had. But I got into this car, there were two other people already in it. And I just decided to ask them for their advice. I was like, hey, Uber Pool friends, I need to ask you a question and they were so helpful. It was a long drive, we were going from the Upper West Side to the Lower East. And the whole time they were discussing with me the pros and cons of expressing my feelings. And we ultimately decided that I should tell him what I felt because like Maat says, you don't know what the outcome will be. But you shouldn't let the fear of a bad outcome keep you from speaking your own truth. So I did and-
AMANDA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: -now we're engaged. So the outcome was okay.
JULIA: I love that you use the Uber pool, like a panel of judges.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Very similarly to the panel of judges that judge you in the Egyptian Underworld.
DR. MOIYA: Yes, this.
AMANDA: I bet both of those people tell the story to this day, which just makes it feel like Moiya, you have become an urban legend, like you have become a folkloric story in two other people's lives, which I think is fantastic.
DR. MOIYA: Oh, that's all I've ever wanted.
AMANDA: It's like Cash Cab, but a dating advice show, which is honestly my dream job.
JULIA: And it can we pitch that to a television station being like, hey, what if Cash Cab but dating?
AMANDA: Yeah, copyright, copyright, TM, TM. TM. We'll get on that. Wow, I love that so much. But I mean, how did it like, were you walking into that situation where thinking might be good might be bad? Like what? Like, what were you sort of for stalling yourself against? Like, obviously, the good is great. But how did you feel about the possibility that it wouldn't be reciprocated?
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. So I went to the party, and I use that party to collect some data, I was observing. I'm a scientist.
JULIA: Classic.
DR. MOIYA: I was observing how he acted around me to try and get a sense of what the outcome might be. And then I went back to his apartment with him and his roommates, we were all friends in college after the party. And late that night, I decided, alright, now's the time, because I had collected enough favorable data. And he had fallen asleep on the couch. I put my shoes on in case I needed to just run in case-
AMANDA: Good. Good. Good.
DR. MOIYA: -he was like, oh, no, I don't feel this way. And I could, I could just run, but I had my shoes on and I tapped him on the shoulder. And I said, “I have feelings? Crush-like feelings.”
AMANDA: Good.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah. And he said, “I have feelings too, in my brain?” which I now like, that's where the feelings happen.
AMANDA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: But I was more worried about if he had feelings for me in his junk, you know?
AMANDA: Sure. That's also important in this case. Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: So I was just stealing myself for the worst. But I also knew that if the worst came, then I would be okay. I would run out of that apartment and be fine.
JULIA: In terms of like, worried that it would ruin the friendship, how did you feel about like approaching that scientifically?
DR. MOIYA: Scientifically.
JULIA: Scientifically.
DR. MOIYA: Quantitatively with measurements and everything? We had been friends for two years, I felt that our friendship was strong enough that if he didn't feel the same way that we could still be friends, but also like Maat says, If not, then, you know, I would have been sad about losing that friendship for a while. But if it's not that strong, then- then what? Like it's not it's not that worth it.
JULIA: Right.
AMANDA: That's so right. Oh, man, I am so in love with this. I love this makes me just loving being your collaborative friend even more. If I were in that Uber pool with you, Moiya, which at this point is such a demarcation in time.
DR. MOIYA: Oh, yeah.
AMANDA: Like seeing a flip phone and a movie. I'm just like, Ah, yes, the mid-20 teens, I would have said that I was also in a similar experience and it went the other way where I confessed feelings for a longtime friend when I was in high school and we weren't reciprocated and the friendship ended up kind of coming to a conclusion. But what I have realized in retrospect is that for all that time, yes, there was a friendship. Yes, we have shared memories you know, yes, all of that is there but when I look back what characterize that friendship was not real friendship. It was being in love with a feeling and with a possibility and the you know, the bubbly you know, champagne tempura batter feeling of a crush, and the, you know, fantasizing about what things could be like if it was reciprocated and that honestly got in the way of further intimacy. We didn't have, you know, talks where I spoke openly about my wants and desires and my dreams the future because I was hiding this aspect, which was such a large really overshadow the rest of the friendship. I think it didn't serve either of us well, because I didn't get the chance to be my true self and to have someone like really know and understand and like all the parts of me. I didn't get to know my friend, because I had this sort of fantasy in my head that was overshadowing the real person. And both of us, it turns out, we're queer [10:28] to each other, and didn't, because I left this thing standing in my way. So I hope it's useful to our question asker, Norppa here to kind of hear both sides of it. And you know, if I'd said it earlier than either we could have come out to each other and known each other better as friends even earlier. Or I could have kind of made room in my life and my brain for people that I get to know deeper.
AMANDA: Hell, yeah. I have nothing. I'm sorry. This is not my area of expertise.
DR. MOIYA: Got it. Got it. That's pretty cool that you either have never developed a crush on a friend or have never felt tension about confessing your feelings.
JULIA: More than I'm a coward and I probably even if I did have feelings wouldn't have told the people. I wait until other people approached me because I'm a coward.
DR. MOIYA: I think you are careful.
JULIA: There you go.
DR. MOIYA: You're protecting yourself.
JULIA: Exactly. I just don't want my feelings to get hurt.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Well, I feel like we have a real kind of rich menu here. We have a pro we have a con and listen ultimately, Norppa, your friendship will be stronger or you will clear room in your life for new stuff. And I believe in you gather some data, talk to some strangers. Let us know how it goes.
JULIA: Hell yeah.
AMANDA: Our next question is titled, Change on the Horizon. This comes from Jeanne and they say,
“All of my close friends have plans for change and moving in the near future and I don’t. I’m afraid to be left alone.”
JULIA:
Dear Jeanne,
I move through the ocean so slowly that sailors mistake me for an island. Moss has grown on my shell, then trees, then birds have made their nests on those trees. I am passed in the waves by whales and dolphins and rays and fish. They move at their own pace through the surf, but I cannot hold that against them. Their lives are different from my own, and I have cultivated something beautiful and full of life by moving the way that I do. And I do not have a path that I must swim, like the migratory patterns of the seals and the sea turtles. But I am okay with that.
I am not an island, despite what people might think. I move at my own pace through the seas, and if I am visited by sailors, they are often delighted by my existence. Some even return back to me, searching me out on the vast waves. I am a wonder, treasured and sought out even as the lives of those around me are set to different paths like the way the stars wheel across the sky at night. Just because your path is not set in stone, or on the currents or migratory patterns, does not mean that you are not moving or that your movements are pointless. You are also treasured, and will always be sought out, even if the sailors and the birds that love you dip in and out like the backs of dolphins among the waves.
An island if ever you need rest,
The Aspidochelone (as-pi-doh-cah-lone)
JULIA: So the Aspidochelone is a sea creature. Depending on the source, it is sometimes a large whale or a giant sea turtle or sometimes just a giant sea monster that is large enough to be mistaken for an island or even a continent. They are so large and so ancient that they have their own soil and plant life on their back and its name is a compound of the Greek word, ασπίδα (aspída) or shield, and then χελώνα (chelóna) or turtle. So this type of creature is actually fairly common not only in European traditions, which gets the name of this particular creature, but you can find stories like this around the world. So we see something similar in our Sinbad the Sailor episode for instance, where they land on what they think is an island but it's in fact a large whale with like rare fruits and plants on its back. The story of St. Brendan says that he had landed on the back of a giant fish called the Iasconius and celebrated Easter mass there and then returned every Easter for seven years to celebrate mass there, which I think is very cool. The Aztecs believed that the land was created from the corpse of a giant crocodile. In Singapore, Kusu Island is said to be named for a turtle that transformed itself into an island in order to save two drowning sailors and both the [14:25] and the Iroquois have stories regarding a giant turtle. So in Iroquois, oral tradition is said that sky woman fell down to the earth but it was during this time where it was covered with water or a great cloud sea, as they call it. And so animals followed her down and attempt to help her and it was muskrat who managed to dive all the way down to the bottom of that ocean and then gather land which they then placed on the back of a turtle. As more dirt was piled onto the back of the turtle, the back of the Turtle began to grow and grow until it made up the land as we know it. So you may hear a lot of indigenous people refer to North America as Turtle Island in reference to this creation story. When I was reading this, I was like what is something from mythology that moves slowly that resembles an island but is not in fact an island and is moving at its own pace through the world. And I thought like this really kind of encompasses that. And this idea that everyone has to like follow the same path has to hit the same beats. And the same marks in their timeline is something that we've talked a little bit about before. But you can do things at your own pace, your own pace is beautiful and important. And just because like all of your friends are having kids or all of your friends have like 10-year plans where they're going to invest money and be millionaires, or whatever I don't know, doesn't mean that what you're doing is not important. And doesn't mean that just because you're not certain what your path is, means that you're going to be left behind.
AMANDA: Totally.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, I love that advice a lot. It's so easy, especially these days with social media and different social expectations and pressures, to compare yourself to other people. But we didn't all start at the same place, we are not all running the same race, it is bad science, to compare yourself to the life adventures of other people.
AMANDA: It's so true. And if you are worried about being left alone, that's something you can also bring up and you can say to your friends, I am so excited for you and I want to make sure we stay in touch when you move, you know? Or how can we fit a friend date into your grad school schedule? You're having a baby? How can I come hang out with you? If our Hangouts don't involve going to bars with just the two of us. You are allowed to kind of say to somebody, I am so excited for you, how can I make sure that I fit into your new life? Or that you know, the things that I love and value about our friendship do that if it's more existential, I think the advice that Julia and Moiya have shared is really useful as well. And you know, if it helps you to know that just as you might kind of envy others, they envy you. Some of them, I really envy your stability right now, if people are moving by choice or not. And that something both of you are dealing with right now, maybe they are very jealous that you're not moving, maybe you're very jealous, you've lived in the same apartment for seven or eight years, maybe they're very jealous that you, you know, are in your job, that's fine. And you don't have any plans to move right now that that that's sort of a necessary requirement for feeling good about your own life. But I do think it can be a useful starting point. If you're beginning with saying, oh, man, they're like doing things that you know, look flashy, or in the announcement posts on social media. And I'm you know, I'm kind of here there is also a lot of value to having a life that is so stable that you have routine, an island that is moving so imperceptibly that trees can grow on the back.
JULIA: To your example that you gave Amanda, before like being like, Oh, I know you're having a baby. Like, how can we make this work? I was in a similar situation where both one of my friends recently had a baby and other one had a baby about a year ago. And I have seen more of those people since they had babies than before they had a baby. And it's just because like, no, they don't want to like go out and like go to a restaurant because like trusting a babysitter and like finding one is like kind of difficult sometimes. But whenever I go to their house, I'm there until like 1 AM and 2 AM, because they're just like, I need social interaction, please, as other adults, like, come hang out with me. And I know that like there's something very isolating about like having a child and hanging out with your non-child having friends. But at the same time, like you still want to see your friends, you just kind of have to change the way that you hang out like you were mentioning.
AMANDA: And I think that's partially to your you know, you're in Jake's credit Julia, that you're able to say, you know, like, no problem, we'll come over at eight, you put the kid down, we'll hang out afterward like you want us ourselves on the couch as you guys do your bedtime routine, you know, and then you can hang out afterwards. Maybe your voices are a little softer, but you're still having fun. And I think that's a really good example about how just because your lives don't look the same on paper, doesn't mean you can't find connection in new ways or new kinds of connections in the ways that you're used to.
JULIA: Yeah, 100%.
DR. MOIYA: Absolutely. I'm sure they'll really appreciate you reaching out because those times of transition can be really stressful and they don't always leave time to reach out to your friends. So if if you as the more stable person or the person who is not in a stressful time of transition can reach out then I'm sure they would appreciate it.
JULIA: 100%
AMANDA: Totally. Let's now move to, Paths to a Dream. This comes from Kev on Instagram who says,
“What do I do when I have run through all the roads to my dream and failed every one of them? Give up?”
DR. MOIYA:
Dear lost Kev,
My more sinister kin take great pleasure in leading people away from the right path, even a kind of pride. I have never understood what they like about confusing hapless, wayward humans. But even more perplexing are the humans who trudge their way home after realizing they’re on the wrong road, or finding their path blocked by a fallen tree. Those humans give up too easily because they haven’t spent enough time in these north woods to know that there’s always another way forward through the thicket.
But every once in a while, a human is led astray by one of my deceptive brethren who refuses to give up. Their destination is too important to let anything like an unfamiliar patch of woods deter them, so they explore new paths forward. These are the humans I choose to help find their way, the ones who insist on helping themselves.
Rarely does the new path resemble the paved and well-trodden road that the human expected. Sometimes I direct them to take to the trees and hop across the branches, or burrow under an especially dense underbrush. I have no allegiance to these trees, so I remind them that if they’re desperate and reckless enough, they could burn the whole forest down and saunter across its ashes.
My point, Kev, is that if you still believe your dream is worth the trouble, you can find or make a path to reach it. And when you hit a dead end, don’t view it as a failure. You have simply learned more about the terrain keeping you from your goal.
I hope you find what you’re looking for,
Your friendly neighborhood gytrash
DR. MOIYA: So the Gytrash which is a figure I had never heard of before, and I'm not even totally sure I'm pronouncing it correctly, is a figure from English folklore, who can take the form of a shadowy dog or a horse or a donkey or a cow, and these figures meet lost travelers on the road. And sometimes the Gytrash will help the traveler find their way sometimes, but they're usually more devious than that, and often lead travelers in the totally wrong direction. I couldn't find a lot of stories that referenced this figure. So it's more like an urban legend almost, but it has been referenced in Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre, it which is the most well-referenced depiction in fiction, this Gytrash is just one kind of a typical folklore figure in England, the Black Dog, these large shadowy figures sometimes have glowing eyes. Sometimes those glowing eyes are because they're on fire. And they're usually seen as evil because of their association with the devil. But the Gytrash seems to be one of the few black dog types who is occasionally benevolent. I thought that it was inappropriate figure to channel for this question, because we all I think, understand what it's like to lose our way as we're trying to make our way towards a specific goal. And sometimes it can feel like we're being led astray by the realities of life, maybe intentionally or not by other people. But sometimes it can also feel like we're being led in the right direction. So I think it's nice to think of the Gytrash is that thing leading you there.
JULIA: I love that, and I love this answer. And I've been thinking about this question a lot. Like since it was posed, I'm really glad that you kind of use like paths through the forest as a way of describing what this is because I enjoy hiking, right? I love a good hike. And I was thinking about like, sometimes you go hiking, and the path that you usually go down is muddy because it rains. So you can't go down that path, right, or maybe a tree is fallen, and it makes it inaccessible to go down at this moment. But if you go and you visit the same path, another day, the path will be dry, or that tree will have been moved. So I think a lot of times that we talk about like oh, I've gone through all of the roads that will lead to my dream. And I have found a dead-end at the end of each one. A lot of times success is luck. And being in the right place at the right time or doing the right thing at the right time. So just because you feel like you have gone through like every path in order to get to your dream, it might be useful to revisit some of those paths at a later date, because maybe it just wasn't the right time at that moment. Maybe trying again now later, with the circumstances being different will allow you to find a way through the path.
DR. MOIYA: Oh, I love that. Yeah, that it's not about just like trying different paths. Just yeah, you can try the same ones under different circumstances. That's really beautiful.
JULIA: Thank you.
DR. MOIYA: I also want to point out, Kev, that sometimes dreams change sometimes you want to change your destination as you're going through this forest and that's totally okay. I think that you should not give up as long as your dream is still something you want. And as long as achieving that dream is not dangerous for you. Like, don't- don't sacrifice your safety to do this. But also don't be afraid to admit that your dream has changed.
AMANDA: Totally. I find myself often kind of thinking about a measure of success that isn't the dream. And when I realized that something is not actually right for me, it's usually because I failed at it or someone said no to me. For example, I didn't think that running a business was my dream. I thought that working in podcasting was my dream but when I kept getting rejected from all the jobs I applied for I was like alright, well I'll just you know, keep working on it, I guess and like make money a different way and eventually was able to make money doing this the way I want it to and it's not because anyone said yes to me, or any of the roads that I tried any of the like dozens of job applications I put out there were approved all of those roads got turned off. Like I wasn't able to make any of those turns, nobody said yes. And instead, I kind of uncovered the real dream, which is Oh, actually, I, you know, didn't choose it, it was sort of the option that was left. But I have found a lot of happiness and joy to the extent that now I look back, and I think, thank goodness, because I could not have gotten here if all those nos hadn't happened. If you told me that or played this clip for me seven years ago, I would be like, okay, screw you, I just I want it please like, I would love not to do this terrible job, I hate and do a different job that seems more fun. It is very hard to see when you are standing at the trailhead of a muddy path with a big tree over it and a bunch of rocks and also a river and you're just like, fuck, but I hope that this helps put it into context and tells you that no one's ever lost forever, right? Like no, no path is ever truly completely done. It is a no for now, most of the time.
JULIA: It's like the stories of you know, people who get published at 65 or something like that, after trying to get published for 30 years, you know, eventually, usually something gives. And even if it's not, the thing that you're expecting to give, there is a way out of the forest, whether it's turning back around or going through or finding a different path.
AMANDA: And I know it sounds so cliche, but so many people truly let that dream exist only as a dream, right? It's like- it's like a crush that is forever a crush that's unspoken, and you never have to kind of reach that tipping point of, alright, is it gonna happen? Or isn't it and I hope that you can really be proud of all the efforts you've made so far. And let the result that you measure not be what other people say or you know, a yes, you get from others or the you know, material circumstances, but your efforts like you checked the thing off your list, you attempted it. That's the ROI that I want you to measure, you know, that's the checkmark that I want you to check is tried it excellent. No, for now, let's move on. And it's so hard to do. But in the same way that writers keep folders of rejection notices, or I know writers who say I want to get at least 20 rejection notices this year, because that means that you have to apply to at least 20 things and you know, you can't control the outcome but you sure can control what you do. And it's so hard. It's so relentless. I so so understand where you're at, but that's the journey.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Okay, we wish you a lot of luck. And in the meantime, let's go grab a refill.
JULIA: Let's go!
AMANDA: Hey, Julia, welcome to the refill.
JULIA: Oh, hey, Amanda. I know we left Mioya in the other room and I feel a little bit bad about that but we'll be sure to bring back snacks.
AMANDA: Absolutely. And we are going to first and foremost welcome our newest patrons, Paige and Josi, thank you so so much for becoming patrons of Spirits. You join our many hundreds of patrons including notably our supporting producer level patrons, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Froody Chick, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jaybaybay, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Kneazlekins, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, Taylor, and Zazi and those legends, those legends of folklore and mythology of advice podcasts, Arianna, Audra, Bex, Clara, Iron Havoc, Morgan, Mother of Vikings, Sarah, & Bea Me Up Scotty.
JULIA: Amanda, legend level patrons they brought a jigsaw puzzle that people are just kind of like doing as they wander through the party and I think that's such a great idea.
AMANDA: So cute piece by piece collaborative art.
JULIA: Love that and you can join our collaborative art by going to patreon.com/spiritspodcast
AMANDA: For as little as $1 An episode you can help support the show make it happen help us pay our guests and our new researchers and keep the show going and growing.
JULIA: Yeah, absolutely. And we're so appreciative that we can go and grow.
AMANDA: Julie, tell me what have you been reading, watching or listening to that me and the listeners might enjoy?
JULIA: Amanda, I much like the rest of the internet have been watching Our Flag Means Death on HBO Max.
AMANDA: Tell me all about it.
JULIA: Amanda, it's queer pirates. First off, incredible. And like, I want to preface this. It's queer. They are not queer baiting you the characters kiss, it's a romcom technically.
AMANDA: They kiss?
JULIA: There's kisses! And it's not just like the main couple is queer, there's like at least two other queer relationships on the show that are canon and it's great. It's a great show if you love pirates and also queerness and like
Taika Waititi and that kind of like brand of comedy, this is the show for you.
AMANDA: I also know what to do with myself because I'm so used to it being like, oh, maybe these- these people touch hands longingly, and maybe it'll happen.
JULIA: Yeah, that's why the internet is freaking out because they like, we're not getting queer baited for once? They're not gonna just like, it's confirmed because they hugged for a long time. No, they kissed.
AMANDA: Yeah, damn, I gotta get on it.
JULIA: Yeah, much like our other shows on Multitude. You gotta get on it. And this week, we're recommending a Horse! Horse is a podcast about ridiculous stories, internet drama, and some of the biggest baddest personalities out there today, all from the world of basketball?! And listen, I'm not a basketball fan. I used to with a bartender play a game where he would name a city and then I would guess what the basketball team was and I was normally very wrong, but I can't play that game anymore. Because now I listen to Horse and I know exactly what all the team's names are.
AMANDA: You couldn't possibly guess a Utah's team was named the Jazz.
JULIA: No.
AMANDA: But I learned that it was moved from elsewhere and then it went to Utah in discussion of all of the fun mascots and jerseys and names. There's so much to enjoy in Horse. So look up Horse in your podcast app or go to HorseHoops.com.
JULIA: It's Horse because basketball is more than what happens on the court. Check it out!
AMANDA: Julia, it is also worth checking out our sponsors today. First, we are sponsored by Skillshare. This is a wonderful online learning community that's offering our listeners a free trial of premium membership. If you want to learn skills for your job, hobbies to relax to and spend your time on or just videos of professionals doing things and soothingly instructing you, this is my ASMR, frankly, is competent people teaching me how to do the thing that they do, whether that thing is watercolor, or ink drawing, or knitting, or sending better emails or like time efficiency and planning your days, you can find it all on Skillshare.
JULIA: For me, my favorite class recently has been Baking for Beginners with Shivesh Bhatia because I love cooking, but the exact nature of baking makes me very bad at it. And so I wanted to kind of hone my skills and I learned how to like and this is a beginners class, I learned how to make a very easy recipe for rose and pistachio cupcakes, and they're beautiful, and they taste delicious.
AMANDA: Love it. So go to skillshare.com/spirits for your free trial of premium membership. That's skillshare.com/spirits.
JULIA: Amanda, I moved recently, and so I'm kind of discovering the new restaurants around me. And one of the best ways I found of doing that is opening up my DoorDash app and seeing what restaurants delivered to my new address and it has been so much fun being like Ooh, okay, well, I found a new Indian place. Let's try it. I wonder how the tiki masala is. And it has been absolutely a delight. And thankfully, DoorDash makes it incredibly easy to order food directly to your door and get what you want to eat right now. And right there to that door. With DoorDash. You can learn about new restaurants in your area that you love like I am doing. You can also order from restaurants you love, you can get groceries delivered and get other essential items delivered with DoorDash and get drinks and snacks and household items in under an hour. What if you're like craving late-night ice cream, or you forgot that one key ingredient for dinner or maybe you just need to stock up for the week DoorDash is going to do that for you all in one app. And for a limited time, our listeners get 25% off and zero delivery fees on their order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and enter the code: Spirits.
AMANDA: that's 25% off up to $10 in value and zero delivery fees on your first order when you download the DoorDash app on the App Store and enter code: Spirits. Don't forget that's code: Spirits when you get 25% of your first order with DoorDash. Subject to change, terms apply.
JULIA: Terms apply.
AMANDA: And finally, Julia, we are sponsored by BetterHelp. Relationships, they take a lot of work, especially the one you have in your life that is the most important that should be number one the thing you put the most time and energy and resources and caring to and what is that, Julia?
JULIA: It's you!
AMANDA: It's you! Not- not you, Julia my BFF it's me, Amanda, myself.
JULIA: The person listening to this, it's you exactly.
AMANDA: It's you the relationship you have with yourself is so important. And just in the way that if Julia said SOS, need help, I would help on the first day of training out to the undisclosed Long Island location where you live. I want to bring that level of care attention and just love to myself. So that is why I make time each week for therapy. That's why I do my little self-care steps of taking my walks and taking a bath and taking my little meditation time at the end of the day. And BetterHelp is how I do my therapy. This is of course online therapy that offers video, phone and even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anybody on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in person therapy and you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours.
JULIA: Give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp online therapy. This podcast is sponsored by better help and Spirits listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/spirits. That's b e t t e r h e l p.com/spirits. And now, let's get back to the show.
JULIA: Alright, Moiya, this is the part where we always ask you, hey, what do you what do you drink and right now, Moiya, what you got?
DR. MOIYA: Okay, so I recently returned from a trip to Austin, Texas for work. And while I was there, I had the most amazing mocktail I've ever had in my life. And it was called the The Lady Bird because Lady Bird Johnson was a big deal in Austin, Texas, and it has a base of iced Lady Grey tea-
JULIA: Okay.
DR. MOIYA: -with some lavender essence. So it was like a beautiful purple drink and then some sort of flower-infused honey and it was so good. So that's what I'm having for my refill.
JULIA: That sounds like a delightful like sweet tea. You know what I mean? But like-
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: -upgraded three, three levels, three levels.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, it was also served in like a very fancy see tiny drink glass, you know, like with a stem and it was- it was small and it had like a flower on top like a purple flower-
AMANDA: Yes!
DR. MOIYA: -its beautiful. I did eat that flower. Yes.
AMANDA: Heck yeah.
JULIA: If they put it in the cocktail it deserves to be eaten.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
JULIA: That's how I feel.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: I also have been trying to rock the mocktail train lately. And like, you know, I don't like have a bunch of like fancy juicers or anything in my house or anything like that, especially since I'm currently downgrading so that I can move, but I am trying to use up a lot of my cabinet space and like get rid of things that are old or I haven't used in quite a while. So I've been trying to make a bunch of like weird simple syrups to just like put in Seltzer and see how I like it. So that's been my jam lately.
DR. MOIYA: What's your favorite one you've made?
JULIA: I love a Szechuan Peppercorn syrup just in general, I think it's delicious. And it like adds kind of like a tingly savory flavor to the things that you're drinking, especially if you're like balancing it with something very sweet. And I've also done recently a I had this super fruit loose leaf green tea that I made into a simple syrup and I let it sit in the fridge like I tasted it when I first made I'm like, that's okay, and then I let it sit in the fridge overnight. I'm like, Oh, this is very good.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: That over like any flavor Lacroix. Fantastic.
DR. MOIYA: Nice.
AMANDA: So good. I have been just continuously keeping iced hibiscus tea in my fridge and adding a touch of simple syrup or even maple syrup. And listen, you can use your cocktail shaker and just shake it and then put it in a- in a fancy glass and hey, it's frothy. It's delicious. I love it.
JULIA: Hell yeah, I love that for you.
AMANDA: Well with our mocktails and iced teas and hand let's turn to help Melina. This question is titled, Proactivity in the Moment and they say,
“How to be more proactive in my life. Living with ADHD makes being proactive…challenging.”
JULIA: Yes, it does.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Julia, what do you but also the gods have to say?
JULIA: Yes, they have a lot to say but the gods will also speak through me.
Melina,
Before there was anything, there was chaos. The chaotic waters of the primordial sea, full of potential just waiting to be plucked from it. I was that sea. And one day, the sun rose from me, and with it, the world. And in that moment, it became clear that even though I was, or was made of, an infinite chaos, that I was capable of making something beautiful and surprisingly ordered.
I believe that perhaps you think that you too are made of chaos, and at times it is difficult to try to pull something ordered out of yourself. Left to your own devices, it is easier to let thoughts and feelings swirl in you as they please. But there are moments where you may, because life is like this unfortunately, need to have some order. I would direct your attention to the goddess Ma’at, as she is perhaps more qualified for the actual order of things. But I am telling you that you have the capacity for order, even among your chaos. Oftentimes people like us forget that. We prefer the swirl of everything, because it is easier, but we are capable of some semblance of order, especially when there are others there to aid us.
Yours in chaos, and occasionally order,
Heh
JULIA: So Heh, it's H-E-H.
AMANDA: So satisfying.
JULIA: He is the personification of eternity in Ancient Egyptian Mythology. As I feel like we've talked about on the show before the Egyptians believed that the world was a watery chaos before as you talked about before Moiya, the sun rose from it the first time and the world emerged from that chaotic sea. So the quote-unquote, flood as it was referred to was the embodiment of chaos and infinite in these like never-ending primordial waters. So Heh's name also represented for the Egyptians the number of 1 million in hieroglyphs, which the Ancient Egyptian mathematicians considered the equivalent to infinity, which is very funny now, when you think of like, what a million dollars is, or a million of a thing is, but yeah, so he was also because of that called the god of Millions of Years, which I think is a very, very cool name.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: He was usually depicted as a man and so he was either shown as a frog or a frog-headed human, but sometimes he was also depicted as a woman and in that form as either a snake or a snake-headed woman. He is also shown holding a palm stem in each hand which represented long life. So in giving you advice is basically here to tell you like hey, yes, your mind can feel chaotic at times and the world around you can feel chaotic at times, but even the embodiment of chaos has found order in the past and you are capable of finding that as well. In terms of practical ADHD productivity advice, I find that because ADHD is in and of itself, like one, a lack of dopamine and two, kind of a memory disorder. There are two things that I would like, recommend doing in order to be proactive one is break everything down into tiny tasks, because once you achieve that tiny task, boom! Dopamine-
AMANDA: Yeah!
JULIA: -and your brain was like, Ooh, yes. Thank you. I love that.
AMANDA: I did check that off. You're welcome.
JULIA: Yes. Like just crossing things off to-do lists is like such a dopamine blast. And you're like, oh, yeah, okay, one scene done with like, you're like editing or that kind of thing that, you know, if you break something down into little tasks, so much easier. And then from the memory aspect, if you remember to do something, write it down immediately, or do it immediately, because that's a big ADHD mood. But also I find that like, so for instance, I have to go get my hair cut, because I have an undercut every two weeks, when I go to my hairdresser, she is like, alright, so you're scheduled out for the next month, let's just bang out the next four months on the calendar. I'm like, Thank you, Jill. Otherwise, I would forget to schedule things. You know, like I would straight up be like, I meant to call you. And now it's been four weeks since I got my last haircut and I need to like I look scruffy. So the idea that like you can in the moment, be like, Hey, I know, I'm gonna forget to ask you to schedule more time to hang out or get this thing done or make appointments, can we just like plan out the next month or so that is so helpful for someone with ADHD because having a calendar of reminders and not having to like follow up is extremely useful.
DR. MOIYA: That's great advice. And I see that you've linked this tweet to the idea of prospective memory.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Like the remembering to remember to do things. I read that tweet, and it like blew my mind, because it's a concept that I like, felt but didn't have the words for and I'm going on my own ADHD journey, and I've found that just like having the words to describe things makes me feel so much better. And helps me reframe things in a way that makes it easier for me to live with what I think is ADHD happening in my brain.
JULIA: Yeah, the, the thread that Moiya mentioned, is A Thread by Jessie J. Anderson. And it references this study about prospective memory mediating the link between ADHD symptoms and procrastination. So very much worth read, I will link it in the show notes of this episode.
AMANDA: And it's exhausting, meaning to remember to do things is exhausting. So I'm hearing that you both have a ton of really great strategies, many of which were things that I do from a depression perspective. So you know, thumbs up for synergies in letting systems remember for you outsourcing things, so that you don't have to have that extra effort of remembering to do it. Instead, you have a an app, or a calendar, or a friend or a system or a routine that lets you not remember something extra.
DR. MOIYA: Two things that have really helped me feel and be more proactive, are one, recognizing, when I am naturally most productive, I spent a long time trying to force myself to work on like society's schedule of getting up and starting work at 9 AM. And then working until five, that just does not work. For me, I have so much trouble working when the sun is high in the sky. So the first step for me was learning to be okay with deviating from the typical schedule. And the second thing is actually two things just to like get myself to start telling myself that I only have to do something for five minutes. And just like starting it and saying like it's okay, it's okay, you could just do this for five minutes. Usually, by the end of this five minutes, I am in a groove and I can keep going. Another thing that has helped if you are able is to like physically move, if I get up and I do a little dance or if I like shake it out, then I feel that dopamine rush I feel a little bit of I guess maybe adrenaline, like some energy coursing through my body and then I feel like I can get something done.
JULIA: Alarms are also very useful in that to being like when my alarm goes off at 10 o'clock, that means I'm starting this project or something like that. That's also why I find laundry and extremely like easy chore for me to do.
AMANDA: Oh my god, me too.
JULIA: Because I put it in. And then I leave it for a long time. And then it beeps and lets me know when it's done. And I'm just like, oh, this is fantastic. Like you're letting me know, I don't have to remember to change the laundry because the machine is telling me oh, hey, it's time to change the laundry.
AMANDA: Oh my gosh, I love laundry for a completely different challenge, which is that initiating social engagement feels really overwhelming when I am really in my depression. And so I make phone calls to my family members when I'm doing laundry because by time on the phone with them, you know, it feels lovely and I'm into it and I'm glad to do it. But just giving my brain the kind of escape valve of knowing much like your kind of five-minute trick, Moiya that, you know, I will give this person a call and I know that I have to switch the laundry in 35 minutes and go back into the laundromat and I'm not going to be rude and be on the phone in the laundromat. So if at the end of 35 minutes, I have to say, oh, sorry, my laundry has to be switched. I gotta go. I know that I can. And typically I don't want to and I say like, I'm gonna call you back. I'm switching my laundry but it's just such a useful thing to know like, listen, I know it's hard for me wish it wasn't but it is. And so I'm going to let the context and my system helped me instead of just thinking, I ought to be different, I ought to not have this issue and try to muscle my way through which Hey, didn't work in gym class in elementary school, doesn't work now.
JULIA: you bring up a great point. And then we can wrap up this question, but we were talking about being proactive in like a work sense. But being proactive in a social sense is also something that I really struggle with where it's like, oh, I should call blah, blah, blah, or I should text and see how this person is doing. And if I don't do it immediately when that thought pops up, I don't remember until a week later, where I'm like, fuck, I meant to call them and see how they're doing, or I totally missed another birthday again, you know, like that kind of thing. And so I find that like you do, Amanda, like making a association, like have a task that I know I'm going to have to do like if I'm like going on a car trip or something like that. Or if I'm driving to a place or something, that's a great time to call that person and see how they're doing. So associating one proactive task with another is helpful in like making your brain want to do the thing and create a routine for it.
AMANDA: Nice tricks. Sounds like we could have whole show all about this. I love it.
JULIA: We could.
AMANDA: But let's make sure that we get to this question from Mother of Vikings on Patreon titled, Trust my Process, they write,
“Just started a new job with a lot more responsibility, how do I learn to trust myself to give it?”
DR. MOIYA: Great question.
Dear Mother,
I did not seek to be the guardian of everyone and everything I hold dear. This role, this responsibility, was thrust into my hands. At the time, I feared more than anything, more than giants or the armies of Helheim, that I would drop it. I did not trust myself to be the right Aesir for the job.
But in my eternity of waiting for Ragnarok to come, I have learned that you gain your own trust the same way as everyone else: by earning it. As you do more of the responsibilities foisted upon you, you will trust yourself more to do them. I worried that someone would sneak by me when I wasn’t looking and breach the rainbow bridge that connects our worlds, but no one ever did. I fretted that the sound of my Gjallarhorn would fall flat and feeble when I needed it most, but I have never failed to make a sound. This has earned my trust.
If trusting yourself still seems too difficult, Mother, then don’t. Trust the people who handed you your responsibilities. Have faith that they didn’t make a poor decision, that they saw something in you that you cannot. My father, the all-father, saw all my strengths at once and knew how they could best be used. And now I use them to the best of my ability, to guard my post until the end of time.
I trust, even if you don’t yet,
AMANDA: Yet.
DR. MOIYA:
that you were given this responsibility for a reason, and that you will not let it slip through your grasp.
Yours in love and honor,
Heimdall
AMANDA: Amazing.
DR. MOIYA: I love Heimdall. Heimdall, played by Idris Elba in the Marvel movies-
JULIA: Shout out.
DR. MOIYA: -gorgeous, gorgeous human is in a seer from the Norse pantheon who watches over the entrance to Asgard. Heimdall is strong with gleaming skin and golden teeth. Love.
JULIA: Hot.
DR. MOIYA: He requires less sleep than the other gods and it said that he requires less sleep than a bird and he has exceptionally keen eyesight and hearing. Heimdall was the son of Odin and had not one but nine mothers.
JULIA: Yeah!
DR. MOIYA: So, I don't really know how that works but I love the imagery.
AMANDA: Into it.
JULIA: I am now I'm picturing like each one giving birth to a part of him and then it all just gets put together. I don't know.
AMANDA: Oh, fun. I was picturing like a commune and he was like raised by a matriarchal collective which you know, goes with that.
DR. MOIYA: Oh, that's nice. I was picturing like a birth circle where they like-
AMANDA: Also good.
DR. MOIYA: -it is kind of how you pictured it, Julia, different parts, but like, instead of a conscious construction afterwards, they all just like birth, something that formed in the middle of this circle.
AMANDA: Like a birth circle, they could all just be like supporting each other and there's one person birth's
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Oh, fun.
DR. MOIYA: Exactly. So he has nine mothers. When Ragnarok comes it will be Heimdall who blows his horn from him and Bjorg which means sky cliffs or heaven cliffs. It's his home that is right next to Bifrost, The Rainbow Bridge and he will use his horn to alert the other gods of impending war. Heimdall is often held in opposition to mischievous Loki they're going to kill each other at the end of the world in Ragnarok. And they also have this like, cool fire thing going on where Loki is like pulling tricks on humans with fire and Heimdall like is kind to humans with fire. There's this one story that I really thought was interesting. So on earth or Midgard handle was known as Ríg and in one story, it says that he was responsible for fathering the different classes of humankind and setting up the hierarchical structure of Norse society. So in this story, Ríg traveled through Midgard he was trying to check on how the humans were doing until he came to the home of poor Ái and Edda. I mean that poor isn't like financially poor. He stayed with them for three days sharing their food and their bed.
JULIA: Mm.
DR. MOIYA: Hmm. And when he left, Edda was pregnant, she bore a son who grew up to marry a hard-working woman. And their descendants were the world's peasants and laborers. Ríg continued his travels until he came to the home of slightly more wealthy Afi and Amma. He stayed with them again for three days sharing their food and their bed. And when he left, Amma was pregnant with a son who grew up to marry a talented baker and weaver and their descendants were artisans, farmers, and landowners. And then Ríg continued this third couple that he stayed with for three days produced offspring who would become the world's nobility. I guess, thanks for classes Heimdall?
JULIA: So yes, class isn't bad, obviously.
DR. MOIYA: Bad.
JULIA: But I do like that all of the classes can look back and be like, but I'm descended from a god.
DR. MOIYA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: They're- they're all descend from the same god. And that like kind of gives legitimacy to whatever class they are. You know what I mean?
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, it's not written into the story that any of these are objectively or inherently worse than the other classes. Yeah.
JULIA: So still, classism is bad, right?
DR. MOIYA: Yes.
JULIA: But it's nice to see that all of these can be like, but I am descended from a god, I am no less than you.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, so Mother of Vikings. I think that the advice that I channeled from Heimdall is that it's really hard to trust yourself, ah, it sounds like there might be some imposter phenomenon happening here, maybe where you don't trust yourself to handle these responsibilities. And that is a very common thing to have imposter phenomenon. And there aren't a lot of very clear-cut ways to get rid of these impostor thoughts. And basically, what you got to do is not faking it, you're not faking it, because you are not an imposter. You do have the skills, but like, do it until you believe you can make it. You know, I think that's what Heimdall's trying to say.
JULIA: One of my favorite things that my therapist has been trying to press on me and I need to get better at actually following this advice, but look back at your past and be like, how many times have I proven that I can't do this kind of work. And nine times out of 10, you look back and you're like, no, I've done that I've been successful in that I deserve this responsibility. And it's very hard to like, kind of give yourself that perspective. But at the same time, you want to tell your brain like, listen, I can be trusted, I've proven that time and time again, there's no reason that I should be feeling the way that I feel about this, I shouldn't be having these impostor thoughts because I do know what I'm doing. And I know that's like a really difficult thing to tell yourself nine times out of 10, but you are checked back, your history all checks out, look, you got the receipts and everything, you're good.
AMANDA: And someone hired you who is ultimately responsible, not just for the work that you do, but also your experience as their employee. And if fellow entrepreneurs with employees out there, we can talk about ourselves another time. But the beauty, Mother of Vikings of your position is that you can say to your manager or managers, hey, I would love support in this way. Hey, is there a resource available for this? Hey, let's you know, check-in I want to make sure I'm doing a good job. You know, what, what do you think what's going on? Hopefully, you have all the systems in place, and like ample resources and places you can look and like scheduled check-ins, if you know your managers aren't doing that for you, you may have to ask for some of that yourself. But I have a feeling that we all the three of us and Mother of Vikings share the quality of being harder on ourselves than other people ever would be on us. And so you can do a little bit of sort of confident reminding yourself that if there's a problem, someone will probably let you know. And if you are a person who is prone to you know, treating yourself harshly or holding yourself to a high standard, you are probably good and what you think of as a medium job is probably a good job. And so, some amount of kind of reminding yourself that you're not the only one that you're not going to be just like careening toward disaster with nobody around to like tell or help you. That doesn't sound like the situation. And I hope that reminding yourself of that can be useful.
DR. MOIYA: I wish it was more commonly practiced to when you get a job. Ask why. When I graduated from college, one thing they did was make it possible for everyone to see their admissions notes to see why they got into college.
AMANDA: Whoa.
DR. MOIYA: And it is one of my greatest regrets in life that I did not go see mine. Because I just have this question in my head of what was it? And so I think it'd be really great if when you are hired to a new position or when you're given a new position, ask why. The person who gave you those responsibilities, what did they see in you? What is your version of being able to sleep less than a bird or having really great eyesight and hearing I think once you hear those from a person in a position that you maybe aspire to or a person who you admire, that would be really helpful and it's just like not a thing that happens enough.
JULIA: Yeah. 100%
AMANDA: Yeah. And you can name you know, this fear in a way that's kind of business appropriate and not sort of showing your underbelly, right. And like you say to us, how do I trust myself to do it? Right? Meaning I kind of don't trust myself to do it. And you can instead say to your manager, I want to make sure I do a great job. And I want to let you know, I'm available for suggestions. I want to let you know, I'm eager to learn and you know, please, if there's a way that I can improve, tell me how to do that. And if like me, reading scripts is really helpful to kind of absorb that vocabulary. Ask a manager is a great resource, a website, I think they have a podcast as well, several books at this point that might help you kind of get in the mood. But listen, I think if you have these worries, you're probably good. And you got hired for a reason like Moiya said.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Nice.
AMANDA: Moiya, Julia, thank you so much for making the connection. Taking the moment channeling the gods. I feel so lovely and ready to like take on my day because I think and hope that we help people a little bit today.
JULIA: I like to think that we do.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, that's that's the dream. And if we are banishing our imposter thoughts, then yeah, I think we did it.
AMANDA: Okay, let's the three of us work on our pilot about a dating Cash Cab.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: If I show in New York City-
DR. MOIYA: Okay
AMANDA: -so we'll just, let's meet right after this call and everybody remember-
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
AMANDA: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @spiritspodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website as well as a forum to send us in your urban legends, and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast for all kinds of behind-the-scenes goodies. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more like recipe cards with alcoholic and non-alcoholic for every single episode, director's commentaries, real physical gifts, and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye.
Transcriptionist: Krizia Marrie Casil