Episode 239: Advice from Folklore IV (with Dr. Moiya McTier)
/The gods have given more advice, and we’re sharing it with you. We trick imposter syndrome with a trickster, making new houses and apartments into a home, and tackling to-do lists.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of fire, urination, relationships, patriarchal expectations, mental health, queerphobia, death, battle, and sacrifice.
Guest
Dr. Moiya McTier is a New York-based astrophysicist who studies planets outside of our solar system. She’s also a folklorist who specializes in using science and logic to build fictional worlds. You can hear all about the worlds she’s built on her podcast, Exolore, where she imagines, discusses, and reviews fictional worlds, often with expert guests. You can learn more about Moiya and her work on her website, moiyamctier.com.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends Always Only You by Chloe Liese, and If the Boot Fits by Rebekah Weatherspoon .
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out Exolore: Helping you imagine other worlds, but with facts and science! Every other week, astrophysicist/folklorist Moiya McTier explores fictional worlds by building them with a panel of expert guests, interviewing professional worldbuilders, or reviewing the merits of worlds that have already been built.
Sponsors
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Find Us Online
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Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And this is Episode 239, our fourth installment of Advice from Folklore with Dr. Moiya McTier.
JULIA: Ah, Dr. Moiya, once again, answering questions in the form of gods and goddesses that I am super jealous that she's able to channel so well.
AMANDA: Well, I feel like both of you just completely bring it every week. And then I talk sometimes about like depression and duvets. And really, you know, what, what more could you want from a New Media career?
JULIA: You're very good at giving us lists and homework to do so I appreciate that.
AMANDA: That's true. That's true. I assigned a lot of homework in this episode, but it's all for the better. So I am so so happy that we get to bring you another of the Advice from Folklore episodes, always so exciting for us to do and so happy to welcome three new patrons to our family, Eliot, Nikki, Katelynn. Thank you so very much for pledging a little bit of money to support the show each month on Patreon and to get such rewards as recipe cards, alcoholic and non-alcoholic that Julia makes for every dang episode. Bonus monthly urban legends episode a whole nother one just for you our patrons at the $4 level and above. Gosh, so good.
JULIA: So good. So good. We're glad you're here. We're glad you're part of the family.
AMANDA: Thank you too to our supporting producer level patrons who get all of the above rewards and also their name mentioned every episode, Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Bryan, Debra, Hannah, Jane, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Justin, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi.
JULIA: And our legend-level patrons, Amanda, don't forget about those. They get things sent in the mail! Physical things sent to them!
AMANDA: So fun! Audra, Chimera or Change, Clara, Drew, Jack Marie, Jaybaybay, Ki, Lada, Morgan, Morgan H., Necroroyalty, Taylor, & Bea Me Up Scotty.
JULIA: Always so good. I'm so glad that they're here and that I get to tell them good advice. Sometimes. Mostly.
AMANDA: So good. So good.
JULIA: Amanda, speaking of so good. What have you been watching, listening to, reading lately?
AMANDA: Well, Julia, I had the excellent experience of reading a couple of different romance novels and then realizing that each of them was part of a trilogy. And that's the best part. You know, the feeling where you read a book and then you're like, holy shit, there are more so I actually want to recommend both of them this week so that whether you are into cowboys or hockey, there's options for you. Ready?
JULIA: Go for it.
AMANDA: The first series I would love to recommend... in both cases actually, I read the second book in the series, and really loved them both. I think they're both good entry points. One is the Cowboys of California Series by Rebekah Weatherspoon. The book that I loved, in particular, is called If the Boot Fits, I've seen it recommended a lot. It's a family of black cowboys and ranchers, and each of them focuses on a different of the brothers as they all find love and then the second series by Chloe Liese and the book that I began with is called, Always Only You about a Social Media Manager for a hockey team who the star of the hockey team is mad in love with her. It's a real learning to accept the affections of others type of plotline. And it is friggin awesome. I really enjoyed both of these.
JULIA: Those sounds so good. I like the cowboy one because it sounds like Bridgerton but cowboys.
AMANDA: Yeah, it is pretty cowboys, pretty Bridgerton and then in the Chloe Liese Series, it's about a bunch of brothers who are Swedish and athletes. So, really, what's not to love? And as always go to spiritspodcast.com/books where you can get links to buy these books and many more at your local independent bookstore.
JULIA: So Amanda, we have Moiya on this show but have you, listener-- listener who is not Amanda but listening to this podcast at this moment? have you subscribed to EXOLORE yet? Because you should!
AMANDA: You got to do it. It is so, so good. It's Moiya's podcast and Julia, can you give us the real like 30 to 60 seconds you know, explanation of what the show is?
JULIA: Yeah, so listener, have you ever wondered what life would be like on a planet that was different from our own or how writers create your favorite fictional worlds? Well, that's what Moiya talks about on EXOLORE. Every other week, ASTROPHYSICIST! I love but she's an astrophysicist and folklorist, Dr. Moiya McTier explores fictional worlds by building them with a panel of expert guests interviewing professional world builders and reviewing the merits of worlds that have already been built. I was just recently on an episode talking about Shadow and Bone and The Grishaverse so definitely check that out I have a lot of fun doing it. But you'll laugh, you'll learn and you'll gain an appreciation for how special our planet really is. So you can subscribe today searching: EXOLORE, E X O L O R E in your podcast app or just going to exolorepod.com.
AMANDA: And if that is not enough Moiya for you, I have great news, which is that you're about to enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 239: Advice From Folklore with Dr. Moiya McTier.
AMANDA: It is another season. It's a new month, and still, we turn to the gods to folklore to myth to help us find our way. Julia, Moiya, welcome back to Advice From Folklore.
JULIA: Oh, thank you, Amanda.
DR. MOIYA: Thank you, it's so good to be back.
JULIA: Happy to be here.
AMANDA: I am so excited to see sort of who offered you advice and what their advice was. So why don't we jump right into it? This question comes from Viv [5:01] via email about moving out alone. Viv writes: “I'm a working adult living at my parents’ home and thinking about moving out. I want to have a place to call my own but still fear the loneliness and silence. I also have a bit of social anxiety. So I'm lukewarm at the idea of being roommates with strangers. Help.”
JULIA: I got you.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Child, take a seat by the fire. And let me tell you truth as I tend to the harp. Once long ago, the first of your family settled in a house, they too were scared and excited and faced a daunting list of chores and responsibilities that would need to be done so that that house would become a home. But that was when I was born to help ease the burden of the home from their shoulders to protect their children as they played and the animals in their yard. I did not ask for much in return a slice of bread, a drizzle of honey, a bowl of milk, or vodka. And when they moved for often, they would to find new fortune to make room for more children to change their fates, they would invite me along. So that no matter where they went, and who they went with, I would be there to sweep the stairs and keep the chickens in line. And so, as you leave the house that was once your home, you do not do so alone, I am there with you and I bring with us both the memories of your past the line from which you have come from. A house can be lonely. A home is full of memories and potential. You make the ladder into what you want it to be and I will care for you and whatever home you create, just leave me a bit of bread and we shall not part yours as always I have been, the Domovoy.
DR. MOIYA: Aww!
AMANDA: Gasp!
JULIA: So the Domovoy, the name quite literally translates to, "Household Lord" comes from Slavic traditions. Though the Domovoy is not unique as there are several household spirits that can be found across the world. As a household spirit, the Domovoy protects the well-being of the people that live in the home that it is associated with. They kind of like, share in the joys and the sorrows of the family that lives with them. And sometimes they even warn the family of like, upcoming death and threats and stuff like that. They are mostly benevolent, especially as long as their household is taken care of. But they can turn on a family if they are not appeased. So you know, do your chores, keep your house clean, that kind of thing. Usually, they're portrayed as these little-like, clay statuettes that are placed near the door of the house or on the mantelpiece of the fire. In art, they're typically represented as old gray-haired men with flashing eyes but they've also been known to take on the appearance of household pets like cats and dogs. To please a Domovoy, other than keeping a clean house, you should be making offerings to him. Usually, something like leftovers or a slice of bread sprinkled with salt. Similarly, and important to this answer from the Domovoy, if a family is thinking about moving into another house, it is considered good practice to offer the Domovoy to come with you and if building a new home to make sure to invite the Domovoy to live there as well. So I think the Domovoy is one, a great person to answer this question for you and two, I think it kind of reminds you that a house and a home is what you make of it. It can be really, really intimidating to move out on your own for the first time, especially if you're by yourself but just as much if you're with people that you don't know, like going to college was a rough time because I'm not good with people and have big social anxiety much like you do. And I had a hard time kind of trying to figure out how to make this new place that I was living into someplace where I was comfortable. And a big part of that was you know, bringing comforts from home with me. So I think that things that remind you of home remind you of your family remind you of your memories and your ties to the past are a good way to kind of make a house feel like a home or an apartment or a dorm room.
DR. MOIYA: I feel like I don't have much advice to add other than you know I think one of the benefits of moving out on your own is that you get to know yourself a lot better than you ever would have if you lived with other people and also there are pets if that's an option for you that might help a lot to ease the loneliness and also maybe ease some of your anxiety. I know that my cat, Cosmo has definitely helped ease some of my anxiety, for sure.
JULIA: Bless Cosmo. Bless Cosmo. What a good lad.
DR. MOIYA: Yes.
AMANDA: And I think starting new traditions is also wonderful. Whether you are using you know some treasured piece or you know stuffed animal or your same toothbrush cup that you had in your home that you bring with you. Whether it's the same a little line of continuity like Julia was saying or something new like maybe you know you get the first plant that is just yours. Maybe you buy a special new cup to have your morning tea or coffee in. I have still the same teacup that I first used in my dorm room with my like little single-serving carrying you know coffee machine with this one teacup and I still have it now whenever I need an extra boost or to feel those kinds of you know, exciting liberating feelings of being on my own for the first time like that is the cup I go to. But establishing those routines will make you feel both grounded in the place that you are and give you opportunities to ask yourself like what works for me, What do I want? You know, would it be really special for me to have? A different kind of like bath towel and the one I grew up with, you know? Do I want to switch my shower routine because of either your new roommates or you know, you're not in the same house and something different will suit you now. It doesn't come easy, and I think that being able to, like start developing that muscle of asking yourself, is this serving me? How can I make this serve me better? That's the thing that will serve you so well in the rest of your life. And don't feel bad if it's not easy because it isn't easy. No one teaches you how to do that unless you're super lucky. So you know it's going to take time start with one thing start with you know, your pillow, your towel, your cup, your bath mat, your plant, and build up to make your home from there.
JULIA: I also love that you brought up continuity, Amanda. Because that's a big thing that the Domovoy is all about. It travels with a family to each new home and is like the origins of the Domovoy is supposed to be like the first time your family settled in a home that was one of the Domovoy is born. So I think that is a great option for you. Also, it depends on how close you're planning to move from your family. Maybe they're still in the same town. Maybe they are moving to a different city. But you know, you can drive to see your family or they can drive to see you. You don't have to feel lonely all the time, you know? There are ways of bringing what you had before in your home to your new home.
AMANDA: And if the phrase self-care makes you feel a little cringy for whatever reason, because of oversaturation or because you think maybe you don't deserve it. I would challenge you to be your own Domovoy like to treat yourself like a treasured house spirit. How can you leave yourself offerings? How can you make the house pleasant for you to live in? How can you, you know treat yourself like something precious that you don't want to let go? That's my challenge for you.
JULIA: I love that.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah, that was nice.
AMANDA: Thanks. Well, let's move on to help somebody else. This one is called Cohabitation Conundrum comes from [11:57] on Instagram. They write: "My partner and I may be moving in together a lot sooner than expected. We weren't in a rush but things aligned in a way that this move just made sense. I'm both giddy and excited, but also nervous and terrified. How can we make this transition easy?"
DR. MOIYA: I got this one. Dearest [12:15]. I have sat by many a hearth and watched countless families toil and flourish alike in their homes. And after all these years, I've learned much about what lays a good foundation for a happy home life. By far, the biggest obstacles in your way of cohabitating peacefully with your partner are related to sex, money, and chores. The bedroom is not my domain, but money talk and household duties often take place near the hearth. So I will offer you this advice. communicate, talk to each other and decide amongst yourselves who will pay for what and who will be responsible for different chores. Know before you cross that threshold, the threshold of your home, who will cook and who will clean, and then you won't have to argue about dirty dishes left in the sink. When your carefully laid plans inevitably fall apart and you find yourself fighting over who left the kitchen light on overnight, remember that this is their home too. You share the space together so it's not up to either of you to exert 100% of your will and desire on the other. Harmoniously yours, Gabija. Gabija, AKA Gabieta AKA Gabita is the Lithuanian Spirit of Fire. I love! And the Protector of the Home and Family. Which makes sense given that hearth fire is literally provided protection from cold and hunger and created a communal space for families to bond. She can appear as a cat stork, rooster, or a woman clothed in red.
AMANDA: Ooh!
DR. MOIYA: People would leave bread and salt by the fire for Gabija to eat similar to the Domovoy, eating that salty bread and sometimes water for her to wash herself in. Because being the living embodiment of fire, she would sometimes get a little bit ashy. If angered, Gabija being again the living embodiment of fire would go walking around the house and--
JULIA: Oh, no!
DR. MOIYA: Catch it on fire and some surefire ways to anger her are by stomping, spitting, or urinating on a fire. So don't do that, especially not in your home, and give me I will be there to keep you safe.
JULIA: Don't do that. It's a bad idea.
AMANDA: Love that.
DR. MOIYA: It's a bad idea
AMANDA: Moiya, I love that so much I think Gabija has wonderful advice. And so many problems are about mismatched expectations. And I think for me a big part of adulthood has been realizing all of the expectations that I am bringing to the world to other people to routines, what I think should and shouldn't happen what's right and wrong. And in my household, it took me a while to realize that we don't have to split everything 50:50. We can each do the chores that we find fun or the least bad. I grew up in a house with like very rigid kind of cleanliness and order standards and some of those, I don't think make sense. Some of them I like and it's not reasonable to ask my partner to keep them up. But if it's important to me, and I want it for me, I can do it, you know. Like I can Windex, the bathroom mirror more often than he cleans the bathroom because I just happen to like it when there's no, you know, flecks on the mirror. And if there's one of them, I will sit on the toilet and look at it every single time I use the bathroom for days. So like it is okay if I am the one who does it more often because it's important to me and vice versa. If it doesn't bother me, you know, that's something that something's important to him is in our home? Great. And that's all just to say that, you know, you set up things together, you make time for yourself, you share what you can you try to make the other person's life easier. And if something isn't working, you know, hopefully, you have that communication bedrock where you can say, at a good time, "Hey, I've been noticing this, what can we do?" Assume that the other person is there to try to make your home as comfortable as the home is for them.
JULIA: Yeah, this is why I always give advice to people. And I say you should live with your partner before you decide this is the person I'm going to spend the rest of my life with. Because incompatibility in household chores, I feel like is one of the number one like leading to resentment kind of things. And so I, like Amanda said, my husband, Jake, grew up in a very like structured, we're going to make sure this is clean every Sunday household and I was not that so much. Like, I feel like my issue is also an ADHD thing, where it's like if anyone moves, the things that are on my desk, I will never find that thing ever again. And it'll take me like six months to remember that it exists in the first place. But the fact that like Jake is-- likes to come home, he likes to do the dishes after I finished cooking, he doesn't mind that I wait until the next day to put them back away after they've dried. And it is what works for us. So what Amanda said, figuring out the kind of what works best for you what you like to do, what you don't like to do, and how you like to do it is super important for a relationship. And I do agree, communication also really important. If I say to him, I'm like I cannot for the life of me, cook today. I just can't I know I usually cook but I just don't have the energy to cook today. He is always willing to pick up the slack. So communication very important for any kind of relationship. But especially when you're moving in together.
DR. MOIYA: I want to highlight something that Amanda said. Because Amanda, you're so wise. About how it's not always 50:50.
AMANDA: It's all just mistakes I made, that now I'm like, “Oh, that was a mistake. That's what wisdom is.” I just, I just want to make that clear. Bad! I was bad at all these things. And then slowly I'm getting less bad at some of them.
DR. MOIYA: Okay, but the 50:50 thing I think is really important, especially for me growing up conditioned to do more work around the house and do more of the cooking and cleaning and the money management. Like the stereotypical feminine chores around the house. I grew up just being told that I was supposed to do those and so I rebelled and was like, "No, I don't want to be the person to do those in my, in my home." And so I really wanted to make sure that everything was split 50:50 between my fiance and me. And now, I have I've just since learned that it's not always going to be split half and half. Sometimes, I'll do more work, sometimes he'll do more work and over our lifetime together that will even out but in the moment it can feel like things are unequal and like I'm doing more of the labor in the household.
AMANDA: Moiya I'm so glad to hear you say that I had that exact same kind of self-consciousness and worry. I happen to find a lot of calm and joy and zen in doing those activities. I love watching my Roomba, I love dusting the blinds, I love you know, cleaning each leaf of my plants. Like I just I find it so soothing and I was not doing those things because I didn't want to do it too much. And then I think it's kind of like it's like leveling up in your relationship or in your communication, to be able to say like, "Hey, I love these things I would like to do them or can I own the task of making the ice because I would rather always have the level of ice that I particularly want in the fridge and freezer versus being worried that you haven't made the ice yet." like why, why am I, in my brain am I making this need to be a relay race, we can run on parallel tracks. And I can never think about what's in the fridge because Eric handles all the grocery shopping. And I can always make sure there's ice for us. And just being able to, to know as well that like, you know, I think it is so important, Moiya to have a plan going in. You also got to know that that plan is always up for revision. And don't feel badly if the task that you wanted to do or don't want to do or the thing the day of the week that you thought you could do the laundry or whatever doesn't end up working. You can say like, "Hey, let's revisit this. This is what I'm thinking what do you think?" talking is a muscle that you will develop as well and it's also incredibly joyous. Also, you can have two duvets just putting that out there. If you like to snuggle up in your duvet, you can have two duvets and you can still snuggle and have lots of opportunity to touch and enjoy. But you can also have two different duvets and I just want to give you that permission you can have two different kinds of toothpaste if you guys don't like the same kind of toothpaste, you're allowed.
JULIA: I'm a two blanket underneath the duvet kind of person. So individual blankets on both sides because my knees, they hurt during, during sleep.
AMANDA: I think I said this before but it is, it is an extremely useful tip: You are allowed two duvets.
JULIA: No one's stopping you.
DR. MOIYA: I will say, my mind was a little blown when you said that. I was like, "Are, are you sure? I trust you, but okay."
AMANDA: You can have two duvets.
DR. MOIYA: Right.
AMANDA: You can also snuggle, you just roll under the other duvet. It's great. Well, let's turn now to the To-Do List Turmoil. This is from Willow [20:30] on Instagram: "How do you work through the moments where you have so much to do that you get overwhelmed and shut down and do none of it thus creating more stress long term?
JULIA: Whoo, big mood, as they say.
AMANDA: All of us were like, yep, yep, we got that.
JULIA: My dear Willow, I know much about impossible tasks. I'm not the only one, if you look across the expanse of myths and stories impossible trials have often faced heroes. To make amends like Hercules to win back love, like Psyche and impossible tasks have been set as punishment for those who have displeased the gods like Sisyphus and Tantalus, just to name a few. I myself set impossible tasks for my suitors for I did not want to marry. It did not stop them from trying or beginning to try though they attempted to trick and beguile me with lies and falsehoods. Perhaps a concerted effort would have won me over rather than the lies or those who simply accepted defeat. I knew how difficult the tasks I set were and to be quite honest, I never expected results. When walking through a bamboo grove, small steps are needed to spot the young bamboo sprouts along the forest floor. So too, small steps will bring you closer to your task than not setting out into the forest at all. Sincerely, Kaguya-hime. And you might remember Kaguya-hime from our coverage of the Studio Ghibli film, The Tale of Princess Kaguya, directed by Isao Takahata. Yes, we got that wrong last time. And we called it a Miyazaki film. I'm sorry, my bad. But I thought that Kaguya-hime was an interesting choice for this question. Because when she sets these impossible tasks for her suitors who want to marry her, it is because she doesn't want them to succeed. So normally, in mythology, we're seeing either a hero attempting these tasks and eventually succeeding against all odds through like cunning or brute strength or otherwise, or we're seeing the impossible task set as a punishment for someone who deserves it. But what is unique about Kaguya-hime's story is that she is the protagonist of the story, and is setting these tasks in order to get out of the marriage. And no one actually succeeds at the tasks that some of them and die attempting it, some of them lie and try to trick her, some of them try and then just give up. So I think Kaguya-hime's perspective is really interesting for this advice, because when I saw the question, I thought, "Oh, damn, same." So my advice is going to be similar to Kaguya-hime's. When I know I have a lot of stuff on my plate, I make myself a to-do list for the week, and also break it down by day. And then I look at that list. And I tell myself, "Okay, what absolutely needs to get done today?" And then I write those down, and then I look at what remains, and I think about working like be put off for another day or two. And I know how much effort those tasks are going to take. So then I can sort those things out without getting the like, guilt of not being able to get everything on my list done. If you look at my calendar, it's usually stacked really high on like Mondays and Tuesdays. And I try to leave my Thursdays and Fridays as open as possible. Because I know some of those things on the Mondays and Tuesdays are going to fall down the list and end up getting done on Thursday and Friday. So my advice always is: find the stuff that needs to absolutely get done, use what energy you have to get those done, and then move the rest of the stuff to when you have more energy and you're not like just stricken by the stress of everything.
AMANDA: Hey, Moiya, I heard you recently kind of juggled a bunch of extremely long-term and sort of self-managed projects culminating in a Ph.D. So, what do you think?
DR. MOIYA: Yes, I've definitely been here, I feel like I just live my life in this zone, where my to-do list is like, always too long. And I used to feel a lot of stress around that because I would never finish my to-do list. But one thing that I've started doing recently is making a to-do list that just has all the things, all of the things that I need to do on it. And instead of saying I'll do these things on Monday, I say I'm just going to work until 5 PM and I'll get through as many of these things on the to-do list as I can. And so, I'm timeboxing it instead of making limits based on like what I do each day. And that's been really helpful for me. And I definitely see that things that I've put on the list on Monday don't happen until Thursday or Friday. But because I have made myself think of it in terms of time, and how much time I'm working, I can still comfort myself and say like, "Oh no, you're like putting in the hours you're putting in the effort. It's okay. You're not a superhuman."
JULIA: Yeah, I think it's really interesting to see how people look at like tasks and to-do lists. So, Moiya, you see time, I think of it as like mental energy that this is going to take for me to do. So like, I don't mind If a project I know is going to take like three or four hours, but I know it's going to be kind of easy on my brain, I can schedule other things to do for that day. But if it's like something I know I'm going to have to be like really engrossed in even if it only takes me like 20/25 minutes, I know that I can't schedule myself other things for that day because my brain is going to be wiped by the end of it, you know?
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
AMANDA: So I found that most of my stress around my to-do list has to do with worrying that I am forgetting something. And for me having a system that I know I can depend on, where any time it crosses my mind that I have to do something, I put it into the app that I use. The app I use is not important, you can send yourself reminders on Slack. You can send yourself emails, you can keep a note on your phone, I like the program,Todoist. But there's lots and lots of different like to-do management apps like that. But just literally having an inbox for like any little thing, a notebook, whatever, that you write it down, even if I'm about to fall asleep and think I need to bring, you know, a box of oat milk to the office today, which I did. I put in my to-do app, and then I can set a reminder or I can go through the next day and sort of do either the time boxing or setting it to a day. I had identified that as the thing specifically that was making me so stressed being like, "Fuck, I have so much to do." And this sort of spectrum anxiety was, “What if I'm forgetting something?” But then secondly, you know, in those moments like, well, I'll ask, you know, in that moment, when you're overwhelmed, and you shut down, what can you do? I recommended on the show a few weeks ago, like depression workbook called, The Upward Spiral. And one of the things that really helped me to see is like you can you know, you can do physical things to try to help change your emotions in your mind. And so something as simple as, you know, walk around the block one time, it doesn't matter if I think it's silly, or I think it won't work or I don't want to I know you know grudgingly, I hate it, but it works. I hate that sunlight and exercise and you know, like being outdoors or talking to someone that I love all helps they do. Fuck. So, I-- you know, when I feel myself get overwhelmed, I will, you know, do a little yoga, do a little stretch, you know, go around the block, text my mom, take a picture of my plant. I have an actual post-it note of things that I can do when I feel those overwhelming moments. The stuff will wait, I'll be back in five minutes. Even if I think it won't work. It's worth trying and then I get to feel superior that it did work, most of the time, guys, it does.
JULIA: That was great advice. I'm so pleased. But I'm sure the gods have more advice for us just as soon as we get back from our refill.
AMANDA: Let's go.
JULIA: Amanda, I feel like human beings were born to create things we were born to learn and express and discover and explore. And I've been doing that recently with Skillshare. And I love Skillshare classes so freakin much but I've been trying to up my game in terms of writing and like creating like storylines and stuff like that, which is why I'm taking Storytelling 101: Character Conflict Context and Craft with Daniel José Older and Amanda, let me tell you extremely good. This guy wrote a Star Wars book and I am learning so so much.
AMANDA: And how can the conspirators start to learn as well?
JULIA: Well, Amanda, they can go to skillshare.com/spirits where our listeners are getting one free month of premium membership. That is one month free at skillshare.com/spirits to start your creative journey today.
AMANDA: Julia, very often push notifications are nothing but anxiety for me. Someone needs something an app needs me, a person needs m,e an email needs me and it makes me stressed. Which is why I feel like I've kind of hacked myself in my phone by enabling push notifications that remind me to be mindful and to de-stress and take a deep breath and reflect on something I'm grateful for lots of really good stuff via the app Calm. We use this as kind of like a mental health checkpoint, the little notification in the Calm app itself whether I open it when I'm taking a walk or taking a lunch break at my desk or you know before falling asleep or even first thing in the morning. It asks you know how am I feeling today? How did I sleep? How am I feeling about my focus? It's fine to need help and Calm can provide that support. So Calm provides things like guided daily meditations, you can use their music tracks and even, of course, drift off to sleep with their imaginative sleep stories. Calm wants you to sleep more, stress less, live better and it's all good stuff. So for listeners of the show, Calm is offering a special limited-time promotion of 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at calm.com/spirits for non-New Yorkers that’s C A L M dot C O M/spirits for 40% off unlimited access to Calm's entire library that's calm.com/spirits.
JULIA: Amanda I'm leaving my apartment. I have my phone. I have my wallet. I have my mask. I have my keys. What's that on my keys, Amanda? That's Birdie. That's my Birdie! Birdie is a personal safety alarm designed to be easy to carry and simple to use. I just clip it right onto my key chain and there it is. When you activate your Birdie with a quick pull, an alarm emits with a loud noise and a siren and a flashing strobe light that will help deter you know if someone's comin’ up on you, you don't want that. And this will help to turn that person.
AMANDA: Unlike carrying pepper spray or something like that. It's not dangerous you can use it without worry if it's something that will make you feel safer whether you put it on your keychain you attach it to your bag you toss one in the car one in your purse or your backpack. If it brings you peace of mind that's something that you deserve and we are happy to recommend She's Birdie. So right now, She's Birdie is offering our listeners 15% off your first purchase when you go to shesbirdie.com/spirits. That's shesbirdie.com/spirits spelled S H E S B I R D I E.com/spirits for 15% off your first purchase
JULIA: That's shesbirdie.com/spirits.
AMANDA: And now, let's get back to the show.
JULIA: Moiya, this is usually a moment where we asked you what your partner has been making cocktail-wise.
DR. MOIYA: Right, right. So it's been warm and, and muggy and so we haven't wanted to make our own drinks lately. We're wanting to take it easy and just use pre-made drinks. So I've been enjoying the beach juice vodka lemonade. It's like a little sparkling vodka drink. It's cool and refreshing. And I just have to open a can, and it's nice.
JULIA: That sounds delightful.
AMANDA: Great!
JULIA: I gotta pick some of that up. I'm gonna be honest with y'all. I'm gonna be real honest with y'all in this moment, I have finally become the very very basic bitch that I was meant to become. And I bought myself one of those Yeti Coolers things.
AMANDA: Yeah!
JULIA: The ones that slip over the, the beer can and it keeps it cold for like hours. Legit guys. I know. I know. This is a very basic Long Island thing, my Long Island is showing here. The beer is colder the more I drink it.
AMANDA: It's amazing.
JULIA: And it's a game-changer because I've mentioned on the show before I love a tallboy beer, but I don't drink very fast. So by the time I get like three-quarters of the way through it, it is like lukewarm usually. But this has revolutionized my, my beer drinking experience. And I love it so much and to tie with my Yeti beer koozie now, I had a beer this weekend called Zeus Juice and it was an ambrosia style sour and it was delicious.
DR. MOIYA: Nice.
AMANDA: I love that so much.
JULIA: It's great.
AMANDA: Our friends got those for us for the holidays, Julia. Brew Mate brand[32:12], which I also quite like and there's like a little riser in the bottom if you have a shorter can.
JULIA: Postmark.
AMANDA: It's, it’s so adorable. I find them to be really helpful and I use them all the time when I do my favorite kind of drinks you have at home right now. It's a home beer shot combo. I feel a little judgmental of myself when I pour myself a shot and crack open a beer at home. But you know what? I love it. I love it. I love your shot combo. I miss them at bars. I had my first beer shot combo in a bar this past weekend as we're recording this which felt like such an incredible milestone. I love it. And we sometimes like meet up with friends on FaceTime and all crack open a drink at the same time. If you enjoy a beer shot combo, I highly recommend you give yourself that pleasure at home.
JULIA: Nice.
DR. MOIYA: Can I ask what the combo is?
AMANDA: Oh Moiya, many. So my favorite generally is a Miller, High Life, and whiskey but teq- and tequila is also a very popular one by us.
DR. MOIYA: Nice
AMANDA: So usually whiskey or tequila is what I'll go with.
DR. MOIYA: Cool.
JULIA: A good choice.
AMANDA: Anything cheap. And in a, in a beer, thermal, thingamabob works for me. All right, well, let's help out Cowboy Bebop [33:16] on Instagram, who says very simply: "Gods and Goddesses? How do I deal with Impostor Syndrome?"
DR. MOIYA: Oh, unfortunately, I have this one. Okay.
JULIA: Don't we all?
DR. MOIYA: Dear Cowboy Bebop [33:31]. There was a time when hubris plagued humankind when Petulantia flamed your egos to the point where you walked the earth without fear. It made you easy to swindle, too easy. So I planted the seeds of doubt and fear that you're a fraud, that you don't belong. The seed blossomed among some of your kind and made you second guess everything you did. And for the first time and too long, I have felt challenged and I was happy to put in the effort to do my tricks. But the soil of human minds is apparently too fertile for this doubtful fruit, you question everything. And you third and fourth, guess yourself, and you believe so strongly that you're an imposter wherever you go. The irony here is that in making you feel like a fraud when you clearly aren't one, I've actually turned you into a fraud of frauds. I've made you one of my own and now I feel bad. It's a great cosmic joke. And I've somehow turned myself into the butt. There's a very simple way to raise these fields of doubt in your mind. It's simple, but not easy. When you're faced with a task or a decision or opportunity, simply believe that you can do it. Believe that you have the skills believe that you have the knowledge, at the very least believe that you have more of either than the next person in line for the job. And believe me, you probably do because if there's one thing I've learned after an eternity of deceiving your fellow humans, it's that none of them are as smart or talented as you think they are. Remember, whether you're actually a fraud or just impersonating one, you're still one of mine. The only way to rid yourself with me is to believe that you're neither, with knavish sincerity, Laverna.
JULIA: Incredible.
AMANDA: So good!
DR. MOIYA: Laverna is a minor Roman goddess of thieves, cheats, liars, and frauds.
AMANDA: Incredible.
DR. MOIYA: She sounds like my kind of woman.
AMANDA: Yes, we love her already!
JULIA: My girl!
DR. MOIYA: She had an altar devoted to her on the Aventine Hill, and in one story of Laverna, she bought a piece of land from a priest and swore on her body to build a temple on that land. Instead of doing that, she sold everything of value on the land and left before the priest knew that he had been duped. Laverna then went on to pull a similar trick on a nearby Lord, this time swearing on her head that she would grant him some boon. And the priest and the Lord complained to the other gods-
JULIA: [35:47]
DR. MOIYA: -after they found out that they had been tricked and the gods called Laverna before them to explain her actions and during this audience, Laverna in a first made her body disappear and said, "But I have nobody to swear on so I have broken no oaths to this priest.” She then swapped disappearing her head so that it was only her body and she said that she had broken no oath to the Lord. So the other gods laughed at this because it's frickin’ hilarious.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: But then Jupiter made her fulfill her promises and deemed her a goddess of dishonest and disreputable people.
JULIA: Damn!
DR. MOIYA: So I... that was kind of rude on Jupiter's point. But I love Laverna answering this. Because I think that it gives us an idea of where Impostor Syndrome may have come from. This god of tricksters just pulling the ultimate prank on humans and also therefore her- herself. I don't know how actionable Laverna's is advice is, but I have given some workshops and talks on Impostor Syndrome. And I have developed some ways to fight it myself if you would like to hear them.
JULIA: Of course.
AMANDA: Hell yeah!
DR. MOIYA: So I am an astronomer, which means it's an acronym because we love acronyms. And the acronym is appropriately, STARRY. Going through its: Set realistic goals. Talk about both your failures and successes. Ask for what you need from the people around you. For me, that was asking for an appropriate advising style from my advisor in grad school. Remember when you're feeling yourself, so put together a little packet full of evidence of when you have done good things like acceptance letters, or nice emails that you get, or beautiful things that you write yourself that you really like us to put together that packet. And when all of that inevitably fails, Remember that your worth is not defined by your work, because we're not always going to be in a good groove in our work. However, you define that. And then the Y is to have a Year of Yes. It doesn't have to be a whole year, it can be whatever amount of time you want. But I did a year of Yes, for my Psych work, where for a year I said yes to every professional opportunity that came my way. And for most of them, I didn't think I was qualified. I didn't think I could do it. But I didn't have a choice. I just had to say yes. And so I went through and then I did it. I could put more stuff in my pocket of feeling myself and it just got me more opportunities where I could continue to prove to myself that I could do it. So I think a time of yes is a good way to fight Impostor Syndrome.
AMANDA: Flawless.
JULIA: That's incredible. I can't imagine saying yes to every, like request and opportunity that comes my way because I think I would just die.
DR. MOIYA: It was a busy year.
JULIA: Yeah, I can't imagine. I do really like the, the T in STARRY, the, the talk about your successes and failures because that's something that my therapist has recommended several times. Where a lot of the times it'd be like, "I feel like this" and she's like, "Okay, look at your past. Is there any reason why you should feel this way given, you know, the successes and failures of your past?" And I'm like, "No, you got me there, Doc, you got me there." And she's like, "Alright, cool. So next time you feel that way, just remember all the times you succeeded before that and the times you failed weren't that bad, were they?" I'm like, "No, they weren't that bad." So, that's a lot of my therapy is just being like, "I feel this way." She's like, "You shouldn't." I'm like, "Okay."
DR. MOIYA: Therapists using logic on you? How dare they?
JULIA: Goddamn.
AMANDA: And I love, Moiya, when you sort of said like, well, I'm here like, well, this is, you know, I got to do it. And I might not be the best, but I'm the one who's doing it. And I don't know if this is a memory or something I saw on TV. It's memory, either way, I guess. Well, there's someone said it to me or around me or just on television. But at some points, I was like, God, I wish you weren't my mom. And the mom was like, I'm the mom you got so, okay. And that is kind of how I talked myself into doing stuff sometimes where it's like, God, I'm not qualified. I'm not fit. I'm not good. I'm not this. I'm not that I should have done so many things differently years ago, to not get me in the place that I am now. And sometimes the thing that actually works and gets me back to you know, doing the thing I have to do or get out of my own head, at least, is well I'm, I'm the one that I'm the one that's here on the one that's doing it. I might not, you know, have the degree to drive this boat. I'm driving it. And you know, I'm just going to do the next thing in front of me and none of it's perfect. But Moiya, I love that acronym I'm going to write it down. I'll make a cute little graphic to put on the Instagram. If you don't have one already.
DR. MOIYA: I'll send you the one from my talks.
AMANDA: [40:05] from Moiya's talks is already on the Instagram. God, I can't wait. I need help with this, you know? And I'm going to keep that in mind.
DR. MOIYA: I think we all do.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: We all need help with this.
JULIA: We do. We're all impostors but we're impostors of impostors.
DR. MOIYA: It's like two mirrors staring at each other in my head right now thinking about how we're fraudulent frauds.
JULIA: One of those infinite bathrooms.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah. We can harness all of the energy of bouncing back and forth between those mirrors of everyone thinking that we are impostors we could probably find renewable energy or something.
DR. MOIYA: That's true.
JULIA: Yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Let's get on that.
AMANDA:
But first, let's make sure that we help Sincerely [40:41] who asked via Instagram. How do you deal with questioning sexuality during pride, and specifically not having a label to identify with.
JULIA: Sincerely, they didn't have a name for me when I was born. Though I hear that they use my name for something now. I have lived with different faces and different names for my mother was told that I was destined to die in glorious battle. She dipped me in a river to protect me sent me a way to live as a girl but I cannot deny my nature. And so to war I went they will tell you that I had many lovers, which is true, but only one love drove me to war to fight to slay like my love had been slayed. And yes, it did lead to my death. Sometimes that's just how things go. But my death is unimportant in the grand scheme of things. No, the thing that is important is always important is how I lived. It does not matter what banner you fight under, or how the world sees you. What matters most is the fire that burns within you. Sometimes we can look at that fire and find a name for it instantly. Sometimes that fire has a name that no one has uttered before because that fire is yours and yours alone. And there is no one else that has something like it that fire might burn and flicker and change color and shape as you go through life or even from day to day. But it is your flame that burns and it is there within you live with it, let it shine even if it does not align perfectly with a banner or sigil you have seen before. It is yours and when the name for it comes to you if it comes to you at all. It shall still be yours. Yours in arms, Achilles.
AMANDA: Fuck yeah.
DR. MOIYA: My hairs on my arms are standing up.
JULIA: So I chose Achilles for this one, one because he's probably one of the most like blatantly queer characters of mythology, and two, he's also one of the few characters in Greek mythology that kind of touches on aspects of both gender and sexuality because his mother, Thetes hides him among the King of Scyros, Lycomedes' daughters, so Achilles is disguised as a girl. He even uses the name, Pyra while he is on the island, which means like flame-haired girl. And as you probably know, you know, Achilles had romantic and sexual relationships with several women but perhaps his most defined in modern-day for his relationship with Patroclus. Ancient Greek had no words to kind of differentiate between heterosexuality and homosexuality according to British scholar, Sir Kenneth Dover. If he's wrong, don't quote me on that, I guess. But I think we've talked about on the show that the classical Greeks kind of assumed that men would be sexually attracted to both men and women. My point being though, is like, they didn't have titles for it, they didn't have names for it and I feel like a lot of people, especially during Pride Month, and I feel this, to a certain extent, look to kind of put themselves under the banner of like, the bisexual flag, the rainbow flag, the lesbian flag, etc, etc. But you don't have to find that banner for yourself. Because like, we're lucky that we have these kind of umbrella terms that people enjoy or like, you know, such as gay can be an umbrella term queer can be an umbrella term. Sexuality is like a superfluid thing, as is gender. Like sometimes I have days where I feel like my gender is just like shrug emoji? Who can say? I think it's just important to know that even if you don't have a word specifically for how you feel and what you are, that doesn't mean that you're any less like welcome at pride or you know, belong in the ranks of people who are like you.
AMANDA: My challenge for you, Sincerely, I just issuing challenges for all the listeners.
DR. MOIYA: Challenges, it's a challenge episode, go forth.
AMANDA: My challenge to you is to think of yourself like a book in the Library of Congress. Where you are not only a volume of American Poetry, in the American Poetry Section. You are your own book, you probably have other tags to do with your subject matter or your author or all other kinds of things that could categorize you. And if the works by your particular poet have a little coffee clutch and they won't all get together and talk you attend that one too. It doesn't make you not a poetry book. The somewhat layered metaphor here is that labels are, labels don't define you, they characterize you. And to the extent that you find them helpful, you can use them as super helpful shortcuts to hear from people who might have experiences or advice or clubs or flags that make you happy and apply to you. But they're not exclusive. They don't mean that in, you know, leading up from the pansexual. Internet doesn't mean that you can't grab good stuff from bisexual internet or trans internet, or gender fluid internet or a gender internet. There's lots and lots of different ways and like with sexuality and gender, it's a little bit more obvious where it's like, okay, yes, like I can, you know, kind of identify in different ways with both of these things, I want you to apply that kind of logic to the totality of you, and the odds that you'll shift the labels that feel useful to you over the course of your life are high. The odds that you use one kind of word in shorthand with friends who get you and another in forms, or at a Doctor's Office or with your family. You're probably going to make use of all of the utensils on the table, but they're yours to choose. And if you want to eat with your hands, all the better, I find search terms to be very exciting. So these are really useful search terms that you can use to tag yourself and categorize yourself at events, or on the internet or with your pins and flags, which are basically just signs to other baristas, or whatever that like, you know, one of us. So you're, you're one of us regardless. You're one of us if you feel like one of us. And even if the US is something that you're trying to narrow down over time, you're still here.
DR. MOIYA: I love the idea of being able to cross-reference all of your person tags. That's, that's awesome. I pretty much believe that like the human experience is one lifelong journey of constantly redefining yourself or figuring out how you want to define yourself. I have like, given myself different labels many times over the years, and it's always changing. And sometimes labels aren't helpful, especially if they are going to be changing. So don't feel bad. If you don't know how to define yourself right now. Maybe one day you will or maybe one day, you'll realize that you don't want to and either way it's totally okay.
AMANDA: And finally, a problem from Nicola [47:07] via email that I think all of us have struggled with. Can't stop buying books. Nicola writes: "I have a problem with collecting things. At the moment. I'm buying books at a faster rate than I can read them with money that I don't have my bookcases, my pride, and joy, but I can't seem to stop wanting more. What do I do?"
DR. MOIYA: Right, well, with the caveat that books are great. And if I had unlimited money, I would buy unlimited books.
AMANDA: Same.
JULIA: Unlimited money and unlimited space. That's my biggest one.
AMANDA: Yeah. The Beauty and the Beast library. Fuck, yes!
DR. MOIYA: Absolutely. But I'm imagining that none of us have those unlimited resources. So from Terminus, we have this note: Dear Nicola, 1000s of years ago, farmers left bountiful offerings at the stones that marked the boundary of their lands. They did this every year and celebrated a festival in my honor. Acknowledging the power of the boundary, the inherent awesomeness of a single stone that can say, go no further, without making a sound. It sounds to me like you're missing that power. You're missing the boundaries that protect your time and your money and maybe even your space. So build that boundary within yourself. Set aside a certain amount of money every month for books or limit your reading time to a few hours before bed and don't buy any more books until you finish what you have. But it's not enough to build the boundaries, you have to strengthen them to fortify them over and over again by celebrating their power. Celebrate your power to look at a shiny new book in the store to smell its tantalizing new book scent and still say you will go no further, I am not taking you home respectfully yours, Terminus. Lots of Roman influence to this, this time around. Terminus is the Roman god of boundaries depicted physically through boundary markers stones. Scholars believe that Terminus was introduced as god by either the first or second ruler of Rome in the seven hundreds BCE, possibly as a way of encouraging belief and like respect in boundaries, especially boundaries between private property because people were like starting to have private property that they wanted to protect and keep other people off of. Every February 23, or like at the end of February, which was the last month in the Roman year for a while until they reconfigured their calendars, Terminus was celebrated in the festival of Terminalia where private landowners would hang decorations they would sacrifice animals and they would leave offerings of wine, honey, and other goods at the boundary stone at the edge of their property. Public offerings were also made at stones that marked public boundaries like the ones on the Villa Florentina that separated Rome from other nearby regions and there was a Terminus stone in the temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus in the Roman Capitolium. Terminus at different points in history was strongly associated with Jupiter and was sometimes seen as another aspect of the sky god. Augers, those are those people who would tell fates by releasing birds and seeing the patterns that they flew in.
JULIA: Hell, yeah.
DR. MOIYA: Great job.
JULIA: Such a fun job.
DR. MOIYA: They asked if the stone at the Capitolium could be removed or moved to another spot and Terminus refused. So the bird said, "No." So the stone was kept in the temple, and it was actually seen as a good omen, a sign of permanence for the city. Yeah, that's Terminus. He wants us to respect our boundaries, if we notice that our boundaries aren't being respected, especially by us. And we're just like continuing to spend money that we don't have, or reserve time that we don't have or buy things to take up space that we don't have.
JULIA: I noticed that Nicola [50:54], in her original question, said, problem with collecting things. And then at the moment, it's buying books. So I think this is a great time to be like, okay, I read all these books, I like these books. Do I need to read them again at some point? Maybe the answer is, maybe I don't need these books, I give them to friends who I think would enjoy them as well, something like that. Because eventually, you're probably going to move on to a next thing that you're collecting, that won't be books, and then you'll be like, I have all these books, and I don't know what to do with them. You know, give them away. That's all right. I know. It's your pride and joy at the moment. But like time to Marie Kondo that stuff and be like, which ones are gonna spark joy for me? Which ones am I gonna read again? And which ones can I give away to friends or, you know, donate to my local library or something like that. Also, libraries are great.
AMANDA: I think that's so useful, Julia. That's also something that I took away from reading Marie Kondo's book that other people can use this. Like other people could be enjoying this book could be wearing this great piece of clothing could be, you know, eating off of these plates, and using these cups that are currently you know, not being loved and used as much as they should be in my home. And that has been really, really helpful for me in you know, giving away some of my stuff. And as an adult sorting through things through my childhood where you know, there are, there are things that I love, but this kid's book, this blanket, this spoon can be loved and used by somebody now, and with books as well. I think there's a real culture of... wow, that sounds like it's a dangerous sentence. But there are so many beautiful books had my eye on the internet and on Instagram, you know, specifically that like, I think kind of books as objects and books as having them and being able to look at them and display them and show them off. Like that is totally a legitimate pleasure and part of owning books. But if it's something that is not serving you right now, or making you feel inadequate, like there's any kind of thing where you feel like you know, you're trying to match an expectation or make an Instagram-worthy life that I think can be useful. But if it's not useful for you, right now, think about, you know, taking a break, if that's something that you look at a lot of and surround yourself with, often that might help you as you kind of set this new intention and boundary to really love each of the books that you own. Or try, you know, every month to give away three books, or set yourself a schedule where at the beginning of every season, you drive to the library and donate some books. And that for me, I have a one in one out principle, where I've gotten my book collection down to exactly the number that fit on my shelves. And I hate having messy shelves more than I hate not buying books. So I will give away a book for every book that I want to buy and like add to our collection because it becomes a permanent part of our home. And you know, you move enough times with enough books and you're like, Oh, yes, good god. Okay.
JULIA: Why do I keep doing this to myself?
AMANDA: I will only carry the amount of books that I love the most. As Julia said, I think libraries the bomb, the Libby app is how I read all of my romance novels. I don't own one, but I don't need to yet and I haven't read one yet that I know I will want to reread. So that is my test is one in one out. And if I want to read it multiple times, that is when I know it's time to come home. What is the last book that you all bought that you're really excited about? Ooh, is this dangerous?
JULIA: Yeah, this is the dangerous question.
AMANDA: What's the last book you gave away that you were excited about? My grandma buys a ton of like thriller detective books. And she reads them, she passes them to me, and then I pass them to my aunt. And so we have just a little like choo-choo train of books that my aunt gives it to somebody too. It brings me so much joy to be able to, to read a book that someone else has loved and then give it to someone else knowing that they are so excited to get it. So that's what I tried to think when I you know, bring books to the library or put them out on our [54:17] and then they're taken, you know, hours later, someone's very stoked to have that. And that makes me happy.
JULIA: Yeah, the current one that is sitting on my couch waiting to get sent to a friend is the one that I actually recommended on the show a couple of weeks back, which is Persephone Station. I got like, a couple chapters in I was like, oh, man, Mischa's gonna love this one. I gotta send this to Mischa and then finished it. I was like, Oh, hell yeah, I'm gonna send this to Mischa.
DR. MOIYA: Nice. I recently got in touch with my like, kind of a strange younger brother. I went to his high school graduation and I am planning on sending him The Devil in the White City because he's really--
AMANDA: Yeah!
DR. MOIYA: --into engineering. He's going to college for Civil Engineering and also likes horror stuff. So I was like, oh--
AMANDA: Oh, my god!
DR. MOIYA: --serial killer, architecture? Yeah, that's, that's what I'll send in.
JULIA: Oh, he's gonna love that.
AMANDA: What a beautiful selection. That's the perfect pick. And what a lovely way to, you know, to, to start building or rebuilding or strengthening connections with gifts, nothing like it.
DR. MOIYA: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Well, Moiya, Julia, thank you so very much. Thank you to all of the gods who have contributed their perspective to our episode today. And everybody out there I hope that what we've said today helps you out makes you feel less alone. And remember, if a question comes to you that you could use some advice from folklore on hit us up spiritspodcast.com.
JULIA: And remember, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
Transcriptionist and Editor: Krizia Casil