Episode 231: Advice from Folklore III (with Dr. Moiya McTier)
/Dr. Moiya is back to help Julia channel the gods and give advice to our Conspiriters about science, relationships, and what wild animals to feed. Also, if a crow started talking to you, would you listen?
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of anxiety, toxic relationships, strained parental relationships, divorce, transphobia, birth and pregnancy, ableism, death, hanging, and wild animals fighting.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends A Lady’s Formula for Love by Elizabeth Everett.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
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Transcripts are available at http://spiritspodcast.com/episodes.
Transcript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is Episode 231: Advice from Folklore III with Dr. Moiya McTier.
Julia: Dr. Moiya. I just got off a recording with Dr. Moiya, one of my favorite people in the whole world. And the fact that we are recording the intro to this episode at the same time, very exciting.
Amanda: Absolutely. These are some of my favorite episodes to do and I just love hearing your perspective, Julia, and Moiya’s perspective, and then my own two cents on problems that, like, I've heard other people who do advice type podcast and columns say this. Like, it really means something for folks to trust us with the deepest problems, you know, that are kind of in front of them or quandaries. Like, really important decisions. And it's just an honor to be able to give you our two cents and to channel some advice from folklore and the gods.
Julia: Well, Amanda, if I wasn't getting my advice from the gods, I would want my advice from you.
Amanda: Aww. Thanks.
Julia: So, that feels right.
Amanda: Ah, beautiful. And do you know who I would like drop anything I was doing to give them advice and kind of listen to their woes?
Julia: It's our new patrons.
Amanda: Our new patrons; Jules, Michaela, Spoopy Boi, and JP the Enby. Oh, folks, we love your names. We love your support. We so appreciate it. And thanks as well to our supporting producer level patrons; Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Bryan, Debra, Hannah, Jane, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Justin, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Liz, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Polly, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, Skyla, and Zazi.
Julia: What wonderful folks. I want the gods to come down and give them advice on even the littlest things. Like, “Hey, hey, Apollo, what, what should I eat for lunch today?”
Amanda: Absolutely. Apollo would definitely have an opinion, I think.
Julia: He would. He would. And thanks too to our legend level patrons; Audra, Chimera or Change, Clara, Drew, Jack Marie, Jaybaybay, Ki, Lada, Morgan, Necroroyalty, Taylor, and Bea Me Up Scotty.
Julia: What wonderful people. I want advice from them. I think they could give advice to the gods.
Amanda: Hmm. It's a very good point. It's a very good point.
Julia: Amanda, speaking of advice from people and getting recommendations from people, what have you been watching, listening to, reading lately?
Amanda: Well, Julia, I finished one romance novel about a Victorian lady scientist.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And then I turned to my partner and I was like, “All I want to read are books about Victorian lady scientists.” And he was like, “Classic Amanda.” And then I picked up the next book that I checked out of the library. It's another Victorian lady scientist.
Julia: What?
Amanda: Past Me, new Present Me’s preferences so much. So, I would like to recommend the book that I am currently in, which I love, called A Lady's Formula for Love by Elizabeth Everett.
Julia: Tell me all about this book.
Amanda: So, Julia, this might be actually the romance novel that gets you into romance novels.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: Because the gambit is that a young widow, which is like the most, you know, socially permissible because, like, she was a married woman. She has the means and, like, not a husband to order her round. So, it's kind of, like, a good class to be in Victorian romance novels. So, she has something called The Athena Society, which is – I know you're giving me the eyes right now.
Julia: That’s gay. Go ahead.
Amanda: It's definitely, definitely gay and there's trans characters. And it is a club for women scientists, where it has the ruse of being like a social club, but, like, a craft room and tea parties. And then, upstairs, they have, like, chemistry labs, and, like, mathematical libraries, and a bunch of women just, like, doing scientific work.
Julia: I cannot believe that you're going to convince me finally to read a romance novel because it sounds incredible.
Amanda: It is incredibly good. And it also features one of my favorite romance novel tropes, which is, like, body guard and the person he’s body guarding—
Julia: Oh, no.
Amanda: —getting feelings for each other because there's a lot of, like, negotiating professional boundaries and, like, talking about consent and stuff, which I really appreciate. I could not recommend it more highly.
Julia: Ah, yeah. Okay. Hold on. Where's my – where's my phone? I got to download that from the library.
Amanda: Well, if you forget what the title is, you can always go to spiritspodcast.com/books, where we have links to buy A Lady's Formula for Love from indie bookstores near you.
Julia: That is true.
Amanda: If the advice that you're looking for, by the way, fellow conspirator, is around podcasting or internet projects, I also want to remind you that Multitude reserves 10 hours of staff time every month for free consulting and advice for members of underrepresented groups in audio. If that is you, go to multitude.productions and click on free consulting where you can have a meeting with one of our staff members who gets whatever the thing is that you're asking about, whether it's editing, or making money online, or marketing, or starting a podcast, or getting your kind of existing career into a career in, like, digital media stuff. We're here for you.
Julia: Yeah, it's really great. And I know Amanda has been rocking those hours and giving some great advice. Again, give advice.
Amanda: multitude.productions. With all that said, thank you again to Dr. Moiya McTier. Please congratulate her on getting her PhD. No big deal. And enjoy all of the advice that she, and Julia, and I have to offer in Spirits Podcast Episode 231: Advice from Folklore III.
Intro Music
Amanda: We are back with Advice from Folklore, one of my personal favorite segments that we have here on the show. But this one is a little bit different because we are joined, for the first time, by Dr. Moiya McTier?
Julia: Dr. Moiya McTier.
Moiya: Oh, my god, that's me. [Laughs]
Julia: That's you.
Amanda: You did it.
Moiya: It hasn't sunk in yet, but I'm hoping that – honestly, I'm hoping it never does because I love that little thrill every time someone says Dr. Moiya.
Amanda: Yay.
Julia: A little dose of serotonin for you.
Moiya: Yes, I need all the serotonin I can get.
Julia: Don't we all?
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: Well, you've never been better qualified to help us help conspirators with the quandaries that they face.
Julia: Wooh.
Amanda: So, don't we just jump in.
Moiya: Yeah, let's do that.
Julia: Yeah, let's do it.
Amanda: Okay. Fabulous. This first quandary is titled Scientific Quandary. And it comes from RavenclawinRed. Is it okay to find comfort in the universe and stars or other higher powers as a scientist? I am a neuroscientist, but I have massive anxiety issues and I find that tarot and horoscopes are more comforting than therapy.
Moiya: Hmm. Oh, yes, Dear RavenclawinRed. We have an answer for you from Thoth, the Egyptian god of science, magic, writing, and knowledge. And Thoth says, “Dear RavenclawinRed, in my heyday, humans didn't care so much about the distinction between science and the divine. Science was used by some to explain the natural world, which was understood by nearly all to have been divinely created. This separation between the two is a modern invention, one that keeps you from embracing other ways of knowing. Would you ask if it was okay to find comfort in the smell of a home-cooked meal when you could see it being prepared with your eyes? No, because there are multiple ways of knowing that the food was cooked and some of them will bring you more comfort than others. If the magic of tarot and horoscopes guides you to better reflection than the science of therapy, embrace that. It's a beautiful thing to know about yourself. And yourself is the most beautiful thing to know. Thinking of you, Thoth.”
Julia: I love having Moiya on these episodes because I just get to revel in the fact that, like, other people can write beautiful prose and channel the gods.
Moiya: [Laughs]
Julia: It just brings me so much joy.
Amanda: It's so beautiful.
Moiya: Yeah, I, I love that we're, we’re like little oracles [chuckles]—
Julia: We are.
Moiya: —and are channeling the gods. Yeah, I was really touched by this heartfelt message from Thoth, who, like I said, is the Egyptian god of lots of things, including science, magic, writing, knowledge. In some stories, he was born from the lips of Ra. But, over time, Thoth grew in popularity and, also, power until he became the Creator god who spoke himself into existence, which I—
Julia: That is so cool.
Moiya: —love for him. And then he laid the Cosmic Egg that holds the entire universe. It holds all of creation. Thoth is often depicted with the head of an Ibis, which, in case you're like me and you don't know what an Ibis is, it's a bird, which is why the egg makes sense there.
Julia: [Chuckles]
Moiya: But, also, he sometimes takes the form of a baboon. Both the Ibis and the baboon are sacred to Thoth. Thoth is 0credited with the invention of language along with the goddess Seshat, who, over time, kind of got absorbed into Thoth and just became his, like, female concert. I don't love that, but that's something that often happens in mythology. So, let's give both Thoth and Seshat the credit for inventing language. But Thoth is also credited with inventing medicine and the 365-day calendar. Before that, the Egyptian calendar was 360 days. And then Thoth made a deal or he gambled with the moon to steal 172nd of the moon's light [chuckles]—
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Moiya: —which works out to about five days. So, yeah, Thoth is really good at math. And I, I think that he's a great person to answer this because he embodies the duality of science and magic, which is something that I am passionate about. And, as a scientist, myself, RavenclawinRed, all I can say here is, like, absolutely, it is okay. I am an astrophysicist. I still leave out milk and bread for the fairies when I'm in the woods. I still make wishes on 11/11. I also have tarot cards. So, just because you're a scientist, doesn't mean that you have to give up those other ways of connecting with the world around you.
Julia: Yeah, I really liked that and I really loved Thoth’s advice when you're talking about the science of therapy. If tarot works better than the science of therapy for you, heck yeah, do that. And I think it's a matter of having so many different tools at your disposal in order to use, like, self-reflection and stuff like that.
Moiya: Hmm.
Julia: I think we talked about that when we did our tarot episode. Amanda, correct me if I'm wrong, but using tarot as a way of self-reflection and understanding, like, what the root causes of, you know, your anxiety or the, the stress that you are under are. So, I think that it’s right on the marker there because you do have all of these different ways of kind of self-analyzing yourself and looking inward to kind of discover what's up. And you can know like, “Oh, my brain is not making the right chemicals to make it work properly.” But, also, you can be like, “But, also, I need to reflect on myself. And, oh, yes, the Empress card is going to tell me how to do that.”
Moiya: Hmm.
Amanda: Yeah. So often, therapy is also a, a kind of, like, guide to your inner world. My therapist often gives me worksheets. I say to her I need homework.
Julia: [Chuckles]
Moiya: [Chuckles]
Amanda: I need grades. Please give me worksheets. And that is a very helpful part of my own practice and prompts to think about yourself, to think about your problems. So, just make space to, like, do something, whether it is sit down with a therapist, whether it's, you know, draw a card from tarot, whether it's journal in the morning. It’s absolutely valid. Moiya, I, I've always thought from the outside of science, like, an inherently sort of spiritual thing—
Moiya: Hmm.
Amanda: —in that it is all about kind of, like, going deeper into the world around us, uncovering the mysteries, and finding even more beauty, you know, in the mechanics of them than just the fact of them. Is that something that drew you to science? Or do you see those as being compatible in that way?
Moiya: Oh, that's a great question, Amanda. I definitely see them as being compatible. And part of that comes from knowing scientists who are religious and seeing how they combine their faith and their work as scientists in really beautiful ways and in unique ways for, for each of them. But, personally, that's not how I see it. I love the cold, hard facts of science. And I also love the, the magic of magic. I, I don't know how better to explain it.
Amanda: They're both cool.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: And I mean that there's that classic phrase where it's, like, magic is just science that we don't understand yet—
Moiya: Yes.
Julia: —which I think is absolutely true.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: And I'm sure that there have been, like, really interesting studies about how reading tarot or consulting astrology actually is, like, scientifically beneficial to some people. I'm sure there are. I don't know, personally, but I'm sure there are.
Moiya: [Laughs] Right. I don't know either. But, since you're a neuroscientist, RavenclawinRed, I wonder if it would be interesting to see how the brain reacts to therapy and tarot and horoscopes. Like, if it activates the same parts of your brain, not to just add more work to your plate. [Chuckles]
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Julia: But, like, if you're inspired to do a study in the future—
Moiya: Right.
Julia: —maybe that's a good place to start.
Moiya: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah. Or, if like many of us doing something because you love it isn't reason enough for you and you need to find an excuse, I speak from personal experience here, that is quantitative in some way or, like, under the, the lens of capitalism productive in some way.
Moiya: Oof.
Amanda: Like use that lens. Trick your brain. Make yourself give you time to do something that you find beneficial and beautiful. You have our permission. In fact, we, we prescribe it to you. So, please go forth.
Moiya: Yay.
Julia: Go forth.
Moiya. We should get little—
Julia: Yay.
Moiya: —prescription pads for the Advice from Folklore segments.
Julia: I love that.
Amanda: I am gonna do that right away. I'm gonna borrow my partner, Eric’s log int to Canva.
Moiya: [Laughs]
Amanda: And I'm gonna make us a little prescription graphic for Instagram—
Moiya: Yes.
Amanda: —@SpiritsPodcast. Get at it.
Moiya: Awesome.
Julia: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Amanda: Beautiful. Well, let's move on to being an individual in a pair. This comes from Gemma the Forest Hag. Oh, conspirators, we love you. Gemma asks, “How do you retain your sense of self within a long term and healthy relationship?”
Julia: I got this one. “Dear Gemma, the Forest Hag. Love the name.”
Moiya: [Chuckles]
Julia: “I'm not afraid to be blunt with you. My mother always said that I was the more coarse sibling, the black and rotting flower to my sister's golden petals. But here's the thing. You are an individual. You were born as your own even if, like me, you had a sister come right after you. And you spent many years without your partner. You grew and became incredible and independent as that person. And that hasn't gone away now that you're in a relationship. I married to a prince, long story, but I am still the me that I was before. My goat might appear to him as a beautiful steed. My wooden spoon may appear a beautiful fan to him, but I know deep down that those things are still me. Yeah, you grow with someone when you're with someone, but you are still the person who wrote a goat into battle, who goes after ogres and witches, who brought back your sister's head after it was swapped with the sheep or, you know, whatever the thing is that you do. So, keep doing those things. Do things that are just for you. Do not be discouraged by the things that your partner is not excited about, especially when they excite you. You are a badass. That hasn't changed. Best, Tatterhood.
Amanda: Tatterhood.
Moiya: Yes.
Julia: Yeah, Tatterhood. In case you haven't listened to our Tatterhood episode, which you absolutely showed. It's one of my favorites.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: Tatterhood is a Norwegian or, sometimes, Icelandic fairy tale about a queen who gives birth to two twins after eating two magical flowers. Tatterhood and her sister, which I realized Tatterhood’s sister never gets a name in the story. Whoops. So, her sister is, like, the ideal princess, but Tatterhood is unruly. She wears a tattered hood, hence the name. And she's born, like, fully formed and speaking and riding a goat with a wooden spoon because why not.
Moiya: [Chuckles]
Julia: Long story short, she goes on a bunch of adventures, mainly, in order to help her sister get her head back, which has been swapped for a sheep and was stolen by some witches. Eventually, both she and her sister end up marrying into another royal family, despite Tatterhood being, like, wild and free. And, when her new husband asks her, like, why is she wearing such tattered clothing and riding on a goat, she magically becomes beautiful, which kind of shows that she chooses to be like this and that her beauty doesn't matter because she's already a badass.
Amanda: Yeah. And he loves her for the her that she chooses to be and not the sort of, like, maximally, societally acceptable her.
Moiya: Hmm.
Julia: Exactly. But the whole point, I think, I'm trying to get at in reading Tatterhood’s advice is – and I'm speaking from personal experiences as someone who is like, “This is the 12th year of my long term relationship this month.” Wild.
Moiya: Wow.
Amanda: Geez.
Julia: If my relationship was a child, it would be going into middle school.
Amanda: [Laughs].
Julia: Incredible.
Amanda: You're gonna have to have the talk with your relationship if you haven't already, Julia.
Julia: [Chuckles] Yes, my relationship knows what's up.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: My point being, you are your own person still even inside of this relationship. If you feel like you're not your own person in a long term relationship and that is something that feels wrong to you, that's something that you kind of, in my opinion, need to be a little bit proactive about. So, you should find hobbies that aren't ones that you and your partner share. You should hang out with friends, either virtually or, hopefully, soon in person if you're getting vaccinated, which you should get vaccinated if you are able to. You should do these things without your partner and just do things without them in general. Spending time outside of your relationship is not sidelining your partner. It is being your own person. And I'm sure your own person is great.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: Totally. I also think it's so important to remember that you can ask for help in this endeavor. Again, as I just really put my therapy homework out here for everybody. That is something I'm working on too. It’s being able to, you know, say to your partner, “Hey, you know, I love you. I love our relationship. I love that I feel so comfortable. I also, you know, want your help as I try to, you know, reestablish my identity, do some stuff just for me, not a thing against you, but I think for me.” And, if your relationship is, you know, healthy as you describe and you say to your partner, “Hey, this is the thing I need. Can you help me?” you know, I think most people would be like, “Absolutely. You know, how can I help?” whether it's carving out time for you, whether it's, you know, you go off and have a solo date with yourself and go to the park, go on a walk, go to a museum when you're able to, and then come home and say like, “You'll never guess what I saw?”
Moiya: [Chuckles]
Amanda: You know, I think, particularly in quarantine, whenever, you know, I see something that Eric doesn't see, I come home. I'm like, “You never guess what I saw.”
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: And even if it's, you know, some cool tulips, it's like now novel to see things not together. And, so, I get to come home and be like, “Whoa.” And both the experiencing it on my own and the bringing it back and being able to say, “Look at what I experienced. Look at what I loved,” and he gets to say you know, “That's awesome. I'm so glad you got to do that.”
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: That builds me up even as it continues – even as it happens in, like, the context of our shared relationship.
Julia: It's not like making time for yourself and then not sharing that with your partner at all. It's not like I have to have this secret time where I don't tell them what I'm doing whatsoever. No, a healthy relationship and, like, a good partner will be like, “Oh, man, like, Jake, like, you did a cool embroidery. Let me see it. That's really cool. I'm not gonna try this for myself because I don't think I have the capability of doing that.” But, you know, it's something that you can share but also is your own thing. And that's super important.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: Yeah, Eric knows I write fanfiction. He doesn't know my username.
Moiya: [Laughs]
Amanda: No one's ever going to and it is wonderful where I get to say, “Hey, I got 10 likes today.” And he's like, “Excellent. I don't know what it's about, but I’m proud of you.”
Julia: [Laughs]
Moiya: Do you think Eric has ever, like, accidentally read any of your fanfiction and not know that it was you?
Amanda: He does not read fanfiction, but we do fanfiction audits on our live streams. We go through like all the Pokemon fanfiction and be like, “What percentage of this is a crossover? Like, what are the major ships?” So, I, I don't think so, but, people on the internet, maybe.
Moiya: Okay.
Amanda: I don't know.
Moiya: All right.
Amanda: It's – you know, we all need mysteries. Little mysteries.
Julia: You could have found it. I know Amanda's secret from childhood username for her fanfiction.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: I don't know if she's changed it in recent years, but I remember.
Amanda: You're, you’re the – no one else, Julia, in, in the world is going to know. It's just you.
Julia: Incredible.
Moiya: That's such a special bond.
Julia: Moiya, I know that you're recently engaged. Congratulations, by the way.
Moiya: Thank you.
Julia: Do you have any insight on this as a – as a new level in your relationship, I suppose?
Moiya: Right. The quarantine of it all really does make a difference because, for the last year plus, I've been with my partner pretty much every day, all day. So, our, our interests and our schedules have merged in a way that I, I can't even remember a time when they were separate. Last week, he, he left. He went up to Boston to visit family. Everyone's vaccinated. Also, yes, I have second Julia’s plea—
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Moiya: —to get vaccinated if you can. And, so, he was gone. And I was alone for the first time in a very long time and I didn't know what to do with myself. I haven't done the work of figuring out what do I like to do outside of this relationship. Now that I've grown a lot over the past year, what I would do in the future is and what I'm starting to do now is making lists of things that I want to do, especially when things open up again so that I don't have to think about it in real time and I can just look at a list and say, “Oh, Past Me has identified that as a fun Moiya activity. Let me go do that.”
Julia: I love that. Lists are so important.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: I feel like we undervalue lists as a way of, like, dealing with our emotions. It's so much easier to, like, write down a thing when you are stressed out and be like, “These are the things that are stressing me out that moment,” because – I don't know if this is true about y'all. But, like, if I'm going through a really stressful thing and then I write down all the things, if I don't write them down, I'll forget what was stressing me out. I was like, “I remember being really stressed, but I don't know what the catalyst of that was.”
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: And that started because my therapist was like, “Well, do you remember, like, what caused this anxiety?” I'm like, “No, I was too anxious to figure out what it was.”
Amanda: [Laughs]
Moiya: Yeah. And then, when you can't remember something, but you know there's something you are forgetting, that's even more stressful.
Julia: Oh, yes.
Moiya: Yeah, list definitely help break that cycle.
Amanda: Yeah, I, I do the exact same thing, Moiya. I have a list in my phone of things that make me feel like me.
Moiya: Oh.
Amanda: And, particularly when I am feeling anxious or stressed or depressed, one of the things I experienced is a bit of kind of, like, depersonalization and sort of, like, feeling, you know, absent and disconnected from myself, my personality, my life. But I have this list of knowing that watching Elementary and reading Leaves of Grass and doing some kind of baking or pickling or cooking project or even, like, organizing my closet are things that make me feel like me. And it may be worth kind of starting that list for yourself, Gemma, the Forest Hag, and to make a little bit of time or to make a little deadline for yourself. Again, not as homework. But, if you need a checklist in order to do it for yourself or a phone reminder, whatever it is, even if it's one thing a week that you start with and kind of build that up over time.
Julia: I love that list.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: That's such a cool list. I love that.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: So, lists, I feel like the through line of this episode is gonna be like, “Lists, guys.”
Moiya: I think that's a through line of my life. [Chuckles]
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Moiya: Just to make lists.
Julia: Yeah, that’s true.
Amanda: It is. Oh, my god, that’s so true. Well, thank you, Julia. Thank you, Tatterhood. And let's now go to a question titled Proof of Adulthood. This is from BlessethJackson. How do I prove to my mom that I am a capable adult and can do things on my own? By the way, I am in college.”
Moiya: I have this one as I was recently in college. “Sweet BlessethJackson, if there is anything stronger in this world than the love a mother has for her child, then I have not yet encountered it and I hope I never do. I love my children more than anything in this whole world and I would go to the end of it to protect them from harm, from sadness, even from a bit of discomfort. And that's not because I don't think they're capable. Quite the opposite, actually, my babies inspire great works of art and safeguard animals in the forest. And I trust them to do these things. But it's also in my nature to offer them my assistance. Perhaps, it is in your mom's nature to do the same. If that's the case, then let your mom be a mom. Find a concrete way that she can make your life easier. Ask her to send you food, or arrange your travel, or comfort your weary soul during exams, which I hear is a thing they have now. College wasn't a thing back in my day. If you can find the right balance, the right way to tug on that mother-child bond, then you'll be better for it. Remember, just because you can do things on your own, doesn't mean you have to. Lovingly yours, Leto.” Leto is Titanides from Greek mythology, who represents motherhood and protecting small children. She's the mother of Artemis and Apollo, the twin gods of the moon and the sun respectively. Also, that's the order that they were born in. Artemis was born first and then she helped Leto deliver Apollo. Just like—
Julia: Incredible.
Moiya: —one of the most incredible things you can do as a newborn. [Laughs]
Amanda: I love this Renaissance art thing in mythology, where like, you know, how some Renaissance artists just painted Jesus as like a tiny man in paintings?
Julia: Yes.
Moiya: [Chuckles]
Amanda: There are so many examples of gods coming forth fully formed and just being even regular size adults just right away.
Moiya: I think one of the things that is so weird – this is off topic, but it's weird for humans to think of something being born, like, fully formed because we're so useless when we're born.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: Oh, so useless.
Moiya: But, also, other animals basically are born fully formed and they can – like, they come out and then they walk like giraffe.
Amanda: Yeah.
Moiya: It falls and then it walks.
Amanda: Yeah.
Moiya: Amazing.
Amanda: I see photos of, like, baby sheep or baby goats, where, like, this baby goat was born two hours ago. I'm like, “That's a full animal. That’s a full animal already. What? I could pet that right now.”
Moiya: [Laughs] So, maybe gods are just like that, but Zeus was the father. So, Hera was, unsurprisingly, you know, in, in Hera fashion—
Amanda: Mhmm.
Moiya: —furious at Leto and chased her around the world. Leto fled and hid on the floating island, Dey-los or Delos. And that's where she gave birth to Artemis and Apollo. So, she's, she's a motherhood goddess. She is one of many motherhood goddesses. And I feel like lots of them probably would have given similar advice to, you know, try and see things from your mom's perspective. But that doesn't mean that you have to give up your independence. It doesn't mean that you're admitting that you are a child. It doesn't mean that you're saying you can't do these things on your own. But just try to remember that maybe your mom just wants to help. And there are ways that you can let her do that.
Julia: I will get to my advice in a moment. But can you imagine going to college with Apollo and Artemis? That'd be wild.
Moiya: [Laughs]
Amanda: [Laughs]
Moiya: What? Also, they kill a lot of people. So, that would be probably a dangerous college experience.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: Apollo would be such a frat boy.
Moiya: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Amanda: I am picturing a sort of, like, Riverdale style heightened reality show now—
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: —featuring the setting, which I certainly would watch.
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm. Apollo would be the guy at the frat party who breaks out an acoustic guitar.
Moiya. Yeah.
Julia: That's just true.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: There's no question to that.
Moiya: And I feel like Artemis would be, like, the president of a chastity society. Does she shame people for not being chaste? Was that her thing?
Julia: No, she's just a big lesbian.
Moiya: [Laughs]
Amanda: [Laughs]
Julia: I picture her as like an ace lesbian. You know what I mean?
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Like, you know, sex doesn't really do it for her, but, like, very into women.
Moiya: All right. I love that.
Julia: [Chuckles]
Moiya: And that is now how I'm going to see Artemis.
Julia: You're welcome.
Amanda: [Chuckles] But this was fantastic advice from Leto and, and from Moiya. I think this is so smart. And, you know, I don't have the experience of, of being a parent and watching a kid grow up. But I can imagine that it is such an adjustment to go from needing—
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: —to help, you know, your child with every single thing, particularly, maybe when they don't need help. Doing things like, you know, pouring milk, or, you know, like, whatever. All, all the things that they could very much hurt yourself or your house or themselves as they do it and then watching that kid become self-sufficient. And I think, if you're able to, to sort of, like, articulate things to your parent, like, you know, “Hey, I would love to – you know, to try this on my own. I promise I'll ask you for help. Or, you know, I, I so appreciate that you're here for me. I feel like, in my adulthood school, I need to take this one on my own, you know.”
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: And, and it's not always easy to do that. Like, I, I know, it's hardest for me. It was hardest for me to come out to my parents versus, like, the rest of the internet because it was just sort of, like, I know it's gonna be okay. Like, I'm very fortunate in that way. But, also, like, just saying the words feels so insurmountable sometimes. So, I think this is a, a really smart way to approach this problem to begin with.
Julia: And I know this is, like, my own fault. This is my character fault. But I am terrible at remembering, like, dates, and people's birthdays, and, like, when holidays are coming up. Like, I am always like, “Oh, it's two days before my mom's birthday, or my grandma's birthday, or whatever and I need to send them a card. But it's also two days before. So, I guess I'm gonna be spending a lot of money on additional shipping and overnight delivery.” But my mother is always reminding me of like, “Oh, well, just so you know, you know, your aunt's birthday is coming up or your cousin's birthday is coming up and stuff like that.” I know, in my heart, that I probably won't remember. But there's always something a little bit grating about her reminding me of a thing that I was like, “I, I would have remembered that.”
Amanda: I know, mom.
Julia: I know, mom. And I think there's just like – again, it's not that my mother thinks I'm incapable of doing it. It is that she knows me, sometimes, better than I know myself. And she is going to remind me like, “Oh, you need to – you need to thank this person for this card that they sent you, just as a reminder, or call them because it's their anniversary.” And I was like, “I would have done that.” But I, it's just I don't think you should take it personally because your mother is probably just meaning to do the best for you.
Moiya: Mhmm. In case your mom isn't just like a very helpful person who has trouble letting go and it actually is that she is having trouble seeing you as a capable adult. The way to do that is just, you know, to demonstrate that you are a capable adult. To keep doing your thing in the world and prove – that's, that's how you prove to her that just like keep doing it.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Sometimes, you can tell them as much as you want. But you have to show them in order for them to accept.
Moiya: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah. And I think there are a lot of great, you know, advice blogs and things like that about setting limits, particularly, if somebody is not respecting yours or, you know, not seeing boundaries. And I think that's kind of a, a different discussion. But, presuming that, you know, this is kind of a, a thing that you want to start moving toward and something that you think that you're – you know, your mom will come around to, I think, it's also possible to sort of start, like, setting your own cues in terms of your relationship. Like, there are small ways in which you can, you know, relate to your parent as a fellow adult, their adult child, but their adult child, you know.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And that's something that I know I struggled with too in realizing that, you know, I could proactively, like, text my cousins or set a Hangout, you know, with my aunt and uncle when I was in their town because I was so used to just kind of, like, going to all the family parties and that's how I saw everybody. And, you know, I realized that I needed to take that on for myself. Set phone reminders. Like, I have a calendar invite on my calendar for when I call my grandma, my mom, and my dad every week.
Julia: Aww.
Amanda: You know, I, I check in with my siblings once a week and, like, make sure I have that reminder. And I, I feel a little bit silly that I have to, you know, make that such a routine, but it's what works for me. And I think too just sort of asking your parent questions and starting to kind of, again, like, have those little adult things of what did you do when you first graduated college, what was your first apartment like, what is the worst date you were on, what was your, like, grocery order. You know, like, what did you get at the grocery every week when you were a kid. And kind of having your parents think back to you, particularly, the same age that you are now and the same sort of milestones you're going through, I think might help them to kind of put their experience up against yours and see you as, like, a fellow person and not just their kid.
Julia: Yeah.
Moiya: Oh, Amanda, you're so wise.
Julia: So wise.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Moiya: [Laughs]
Amanda: Listen, it's, it's hard. Like, my, my parents divorced when I was the same age as BlessethJackson. And it was kind of fortuitous in a way or useful to see them both doing things like looking for an apartment and, you know, like, resetting up their relationships with all of us kids. Like, it was kind of a, a forced way to say, you know, “How do I want to relate to all members of my family because the way I used to isn't available anymore?” So, I, I just – I don't think I would have come to that on my own. I want to thank you for your compliment, but it's – you know, it's a thing that I kind of came to overtime.
Moiya: Hmm.
Julia: The scheduling the phone calls is revolutionary for me and I'm going to do that.
Moiya: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah. No, my, my grandma pulls out her puzzle and knows to expect my call at 7:00 every Sunday.
Moiya: Oh.
Amanda: And she does her puzzle and we chat. It's great.
Julia: Adorable.
Moiya: I love that. Like, do you talk about the puzzle that your grandma's working on?
Amanda: I also like puzzles. So, I do ask her about it. Yeah.
Moiya: Okay.
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: And we – also, we started reading the same, like, thriller novels. So, like, she'll mail me books when she's done with them. And, so, I usually have a little book report to tell her what I thought of the – of the latest, you know, J.D. Robb book or something.
Moiya: I love that.
Julia: Oh, Grandma Book Club.
Amanda: I know. I know. She's the bomb.
Moiya: [Chuckles]
Amanda: Well, why don’t I tell you all about my favorite book that I recently read over a refill?
Julia: Sounds good.
Moiya: Yes, please.
Amanda: Let's do it.
Midroll Music
Julia: Amanda, a new season going into summer means I need new clothes. And, sometimes, it's really hard for me to kind of look online and be, like, I don't know what the new style is for the season. I kind of just didn't get to wear any of my fashionable summer clothes from last season. Do I just re-wear those? Should I, like, find a way of amping up those cool, old styles with some new pieces? And, thankfully, Stitch Fix understands my plight and will send me stuff that is gonna make my summer looks complete. Stich Fix is a service that offers clothing hand selected by expert stylist for your unique size, style, and budget. It's a really cool and different way to find clothes that you'll love to wear. I always like to message them being like, “Edgy summer, hot babe summer. Thank you.” And then they send me exactly what I'm looking for. It's wild. You can try the pieces on at home before you buy them. You can keep what you love. You return what you don't. And Stitch Fix has free shipping, easy returns and exchanges, and a prepaid return envelope is included. And there's no subscription required. You just can try it once or you can set up automatic deliveries. I get mine every three months and it's like the perfect amount of time between seasons. You just pay this $20 styling fee for each box which gets credited to any pieces that you keep, which I think is great. And there's no hidden fees ever. So, you can get started today by going to stitchfix.com/spirits and you'll get 25 percent off when you keep everything in your box, which is pretty easy when they know your style. That's stitchfix.com/spirits for 25 percent off when you keep everything in your fix, stitchfix.com/spirits.
Amanda: Julia, mango.
Julia: Mango.
Amanda: Rose, pear.
Julia: Pear.
Amanda: Eucalyptus. Which is your favorite? Because these are just some of the amazing scents available with Function of Beauty’s customized shampoo and conditioner.
Julia: Whoa.
Amanda: It's very exciting. I got out of my eucalyptus normal zone and I tried pear recently—
Julia: Wooh.
Amanda: —which I love. You know, I love, like, a more bitter or more herbal kind of scent. And pear is the right – like, that's the right level of fruit for me.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: But the best part about Function of Beauty, in my opinion, is that they are all about scent. And I think it's a very underappreciated sense. You know, when you get in the shower and you have a really, like, lovely, you know, waft of perfume either, you know, low, medium, or high concentrate depending on you and your allergies, Function of Beauty just really makes my showers a little bit more luxurious. They really do. So, they create a unique formula based on a short but thorough quiz to give your hair everything it needs to look and feel it's best. Their products are sulfate and paraben free. They're vegan and cruelty free. And there are over 60,000 real five-star customer reviews on their website, which you can check out if you want someone's opinion other than mine. But, listen, pear, delicious. Eucalyptus, delicious. Making sure that my hair is moisturize but not greasy, delicious. Listen, go to functionofbeauty.com/spirits to take your quiz and save 20 percent on your first order. That applies to their full range of customized hair, skin, and body products. That's functionofbeauty.com/spirits to let them know you heard about it here and to get 20 percent off your order, functionofbeauty.com/spirits.
Julia: Now, I'm just thinking about some juicy, crisp pear-scented things.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: Oh, thank you Function of Beauty. Now that we are going out and about, we have some new haircare products. We have some new clothes. What you need now, in my opinion, is a new bra to kind of pull it all together because a new bra can change your day, and change your outfit, and change your whole experience. And I really love every bra that I've gotten from ThirdLove. I really love their half sizes. I feel like sometimes just like I'm either spilling out of the size that's lower or I'm not filling out the full cup that is the size that's above. So, I absolutely just fully am here for the half sizes in order to, like, make my shirts look as best as possible and, also, be super comfortable.
Amanda: They recommend the 24/7 classic t-shirt bra as their—
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: That's, like, their number one seller. And there's a reason it is very comfortable. And it's not one of those brands where you get home and you're like, “Get me out of this thing.” Like, I might sit on the couch for a while and not take off my bra. And that I think is the absolute biggest, like, endorsement a bra could possibly have. So, treat yourself with something that fits like it was made just for you with ThirdLove. Go to thirdlove.com/spirits to get 20 percent off your first purchase. That's thirdlove.com/spirits for 20 percent off today.
Julia: Get that comfy bra.
Amanda: And, now, let's get back to the show.
Julia: So, Moiya, usually, we ask you what your partner is making lately cocktail wise.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: What's going on? What do are you guys – what are you guys rocking lately?
Moiya: We're trying to stick to some traditional cocktails lately.
Julia: Ooh.
Moiya: And, so, we've been very into Moscow Mules.
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Julia: Ooh, yes.
Moiya: I love. I got an extra spicy ginger beer from a restaurant—
Julia: Yes.
Moiya: —that I ordered from last week and it was so delicious.
Julia: I love that. That sounds so good. Have you gone extra yet and gotten the, the copper mugs for the Moscow Mules?
Moiya: I do. It was a—
Julia: Yes.
Moiya: —Christmas present a couple of years ago from my father. And, so, I drink most of my cocktails in those Moscow Mule mugs because it just feels festive.
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Julia: Yeah, I, I recently got from an antique store I found rip a Jekyll and Hyde Tiki mug. And I'm now drinking all of my cocktails out of that.
Amanda: Hmm. Hmm. As long time Spirits listeners will know, the origin story of Spirits and of – and of Julia’s and my adult friendship, Jekyll and Hyde Club.
Julia: Jekyll and Hyde Club. Rip.
Amanda: Rip. Rip. Rip.
Julia: Rip. Rip the Time Square One. I know that the other one is still around. It's okay. Don't at me.
Amanda: Yeah. No, one, one day, we will reunite in the West Village, Jekyll and Hyde Club.
Julia: Yes, that might be our first post vax.
Amanda: Oh, yeah. No,I, I would love that. Oh, so good.
Julia: Hmm.
Moiya: I'm not the only one drinking a cocktail though. What are – what are you drinking, Julia?
Julia: Jake has been really on a classical Margarita kick, which, usually, like, we start summer with the classical Margaritas. And, last time we went to the liquor store, we got a bottle when we were down in Delaware because no sales tax, baby.
Moiya: Hmm.
Julia: And I was going to get my usual, which is the Casamigos, which is delightful. You should get it. But there was a big stand there with a cardboard cutout of Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson selling you tequila.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Julia: And I was like, “No, I need that, actually.”
Amanda: His is good tequila. I like it.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: It's not bad. I wish it had, like, a little bit more of that – you know how tequila is, like, a little salty sometimes—
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: —when you just have the straight tequila? This is a very clean taste, which I don't mind. But, for a mixed cocktail like a margarita, I want that little bit of saltiness.
Moiya: Hmm. This is The Rock’s—
Amanda: The Rock.
Moiya: —like, personal tequila brand?
Julia: Yes, it is.
Moiya: Oh, that's my favorite sentence I've ever said.
Julia: It's very good.
Amanda: [Laughs] And I have also been enjoying tequila, whatever the type is. And Casamigos is great, but I usually use Espolòn as just my, like, you know, whenever we're at home drinking tequila.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: But we are a big Topo Chico household.
Julia: [Inaudible 36:42 – beats The Rock]
Amanda: And, so, it's like a mineral water that comes in sweet glass bottles. And it was less common in New York until recently. It's now easy to find, but the twist of lime, Topo Chico with tequila over – I love pebble ice. We have one pebble ice tray every so often. I will painstakingly like up end it on a tray and then collect all the cubes with my hands and then put it in my, my little glass. And that – maybe I’d get some mint if I'm feeling fancy, maybe a wedge of lime if I want to get the cutting board, maybe not. But just Topo Chico, lime, and any kind of spirit really is gonna get you there.
Julia: I now know that Topo Chico is making a hard seltzer. Have you gotten the hard seltzer Topo Chico yet?
Amanda: One of our friends has. It wasn't stellar for her.
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: However, I'm gonna try it.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Because, you know, I – brand loyalty.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: It’s the novelty of it. I understand.
Amanda: Well, with our refilled drinks in hand, let's move on to a question from PrettyMuchIz titled Texter, Never the Texted. Should I continue contacting an old friend when I am the only one to ever reach out? I feel read to fill with this question. So, Julia—
Moiya: Same.
Julia: Same.
Amanda: —why don't you let us know who has shown up to help Iz in this moment.
Julia: Yeah, this is why I channeled this one because – umm. “I learned very early on that every message is important. Battles were lost and won on my ability to ferry messages back and forth. After the war, I still passed on messages often from the gods on Olympus to the humans beneath. I have traveled on winds from one end of the world to the other, from the depths of the sea, and deep in the underworld. And every message has been important. And this means your messages are important. They allow people to know that you are thinking of them. Allow your thoughts to leave the tempest of your mind and become reality. We write letters, messages to take what is happening in our minds and give them wings so that they may become free. The world is better with messages sent. And I do not say that just as a messenger. Communication is beautiful. It makes us human. Even if the outcome of that communication is not what we are Hoping for, it is better to communicate than let our thoughts fester and let the rot of our own doubts spread. So, let your message free without the expectation of what will be returned. Yours on the winds, Iris.” So, Iris is Loki, one of my favorite Greek goddesses.
Moiya: [Chuckles]
Julia: I really just love her aesthetic. And she is notably just like a much more pure cinnamon roll than, like, the other messenger of the gods, which is Hermes, trickster god. You know, just very different. She is the personification of the rainbow. And she has a sister named Arke, who, during the war with the Titans, actually sided with the Titans. So, when the Titans lost, Arke was stripped of her wings and then sent down to Tartarus with the rest of the Titans. Also, fun fact, Arke is the goddess of the double rainbow. So, like, when you see the, like, very faded secondary rainbow, that's Arke—
Moiya: Hmm.
Julia: —which is very, very cool.
Amanda: Incredible.
Julia: So, Iris was made the messenger of the gods and also holds and serves kind of the nectar of the gods for them to drink, which I think is really neat. She is married to the god of the westerly wind, Zephyrus, who has one of the coolest names in Greek mythology in my humble opinion. And she is known as the golden winged, the swift footed, the wind swift footed, and my personal favorite, which is the storm footed or storm swift.
Amanda: Hmm.
Julia: She is also said to make clouds. So, she will take the water from the sea in her pitcher and then water the sky to make clouds, which is shockingly scientifically accurate.
Amanda: Yeah, totally.
Moiya: Yes. [Chuckles]
Julia: She also carries the water from the River Styx in her pitcher and she's said to put to sleep anyone who perjures themselves or bears false witness.
Amanda: Wooh.
Julia: She's great. I just love her so much. She wasn't super widely worshipped like the rest of the Olympians. But we do know that she had some minor worship because she appears in, like, a lot of sculpture, and statues, and vases. We do know that she had a minor cult on Delos, which is funny that you mentioned Delos earlier on. They would offer her wheat cakes with honey and dried figs as, like, offerings and sacrifices to her, which is very sweet. I love that.
Moiya: [Chuckles]
Amanda: Very practical.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: Very practical.
Moiya: That's also what I would want offerings to me to be. I love honey and figs.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Yeah. And little cakes.
Moiya: Yeah.
Amanda: Can I have ripe apples cut up so I don't hurt my little teeth, and some honey, and some, like, cold beverage, and some figs? That sounds delicious.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: Delicious. I'm all about this. So, I picked this question and Iris channeled through me because it'd be very hard and also because it's such a mood. It reminded me of this post. I can't remember if it was on Twitter or Instagram, but it was something like, “Hey, listen, no one's doing super well right now. The person that you keep texting first is probably still thinking about you, but they just like don't have the energy or the brain space to text first or even reply consistently.” And that's something that I've been trying to – like, really hard to take to heart because that's something I struggle with on both sides. Sometimes, it is really hard for me to respond to a text even though I do want to talk to that person. And it just, like, takes a lot of emotional energy to maintain a conversation that I don't always have. But, at the same time, I've been the one who always text first in certain relationships. That's just how it is. I continue to do this because it is a relationship that's important to me, you know. And these are people that I know appreciate that I'm thinking of them even if I'm not the one getting text saying, “Oh, hey, I'm thinking of you.” And some people show their affection and friendship in different ways that we can't, like, expect people to all speak the same language of friendship all the time. So, to your question, should you keep reaching out. If they are holding a conversation with you, if they are engaging you and not just, like, leaving you on read every time you message them, and if this is a relationship that is important to you, yes, absolutely. You should keep texting, in my opinion.
Moiya: I want to take this as an opportunity to apologize to everyone whose messages I haven't responded to in weeks. I'm really, really sorry.
Julia: Mhmm. Okay, Moiya. But you have an excuse. It's called a PhD.
Amanda: You’ve many.
Moiya: [Laughs]
Amanda: Many excuses.
Moiya: Oh, PhD’s done now.
Julia: Yes.
Moiya: I should have responded.
Julia: You said, like, weeks and weeks. So, I was like, “You a reason.”
Moiya: Right. Right. Right. Yeah, there's, there's stuff in the – in the backlog that I didn't get to after the flood of messages that I really appreciated after, you know, all the defense things. I really appreciated this response from Iris because I want to empathize with people on the other side who are sending these messages. And I know that, from my perspective, I do really love when I get something that reminds me that someone is thinking of me. But, yeah, my only advice here is to know that, if, if you are close enough with this person that you are sending them messages over and over again, then they probably feel that same closeness to you. But, yeah, like Julia said, things are hard right now. Not everyone is in that space.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Ttally. I love, Julia, that your response also acknowledges that, you know, sometimes, someone is the, the text first or, some, sometimes, someone initiates. Like, it's not always going to be completely 50/50—
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: —in any kind of relationship with any kind of, you know, facet of it. And, as long as you talk about it and you're okay with it, then you don't have to feel bad about that. But, if you are feeling bad, it's totally okay to reach out to your friend and say, “Hey, it would mean a lot to me if, you know, A, B, and C.” And I definitely want to recommend the podcast, Friendshipping! to you, Iz. It's a fantastic show I've been listening to for years and, I feel, has given me a lot of kind of scripts and language to talk about this kind of thing. And they specialize in friendship advice particularly just because it's a flavor of relationship that we don't always see a ton of advice given about. So, I hope that you will get some language there if that is useful to you. They also have a book that recently came out if you prefer to read your info. Saying your piece, saying your mind, saying, “Hey, I'm fine doing this,” you know, if you are or saying, “I feel a little bit – you know, I feel a little bit left out or I feel a little bit neglected. And, you know, I get if that's not something you have the kind of capacity for right now. But, like, when you are ready, that will mean a lot to me.” You know, you can – you can acknowledge their reality while still saying yours.
Julia: Hell yeah.
Moiya: Mhmm. If Apple is listening or, like, phone – I have an iPhone. And one issue that I have is that you can't unread message.
Amanda: I know. I know. I know. It's been annoying me for 10 years. I completely agree with you.
Moiya: Yeah.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: So, like, you know, email, I can leave those unread.
Julia: Yeah.
Moiya: And I can make sure to get back to them later, but texts are hard.
Julia: Especially if you get a text in the middle of a night and you open it up when you first wake up in the morning and you're like, “I'll text them back.” And then, five hours later, you're like, “Shit!”
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Moiya: [Laughs] Yes, exactly.
Julia: It happens to be all the time.
Amanda: No, I sometimes scroll through my texts just making sure that the last message sent is not a message I need to reply to because it is so hard. And it's a failing of an infrastructure.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: And that is not your fault.
Moiya: Yes.
Amanda: I know, for me, this, this is kind of tangential. I also have friends that I text during certain situations. And, like, when I am, you know, putting on the face cream that my sister recommended to me, I will text her, and check in, and see how she's doing. When I’m watching Top Chef, I'll text Leslie. When I, you know, see a cool piece of glassware or creepy shit on the internet, I will text Julia. And, you know, having that kind of situational just, like, learned response is very helpful to me. But, listen Iz, you’re – you're doing okay. I so appreciate you. I'm sure your friend appreciates you.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: And I hope that the advice that Julia and Iris had for you today is useful.
Julia: I hope so too.
Amanda: We next move on to Parental Acceptance. This is from theNerdoftheCookie on Instagram. How can I come to terms with the fact that my parents will never accept that I'm trans?
Julia: Hmm.
Moiya: We have a message from Hephaestus. I am not going to be able to read it in Hephaestus’ voice. So, please imagine just like a grizzled, old man with a smoky voice that you get if you're spending all of your time in a volcano next to a forge. Like, a smoky, raspy Santa Claus if you will. So, Hephaestus says, “Hello there, theNerdintheCookie. Parents are the worst. Am I right? Not all of them, I guess. Just the ones that get so wrapped up in what they want their kid to be like that they don't bother to get to know the real you. Throw them all in the forge, I say. After Hera cast me from Mount Olympus, my confidence was as shattered as my body. But, now, I know it was her loss. I'm kind, and generous, and talented, and brilliant as hell. I can do and make things that no one else can. Not because of my disabilities or in spite of them, but because it's just who I am just like you are incredible as you are, whether your parents see that or not. There must be things you love about yourself. So, focus on those and make friends who want to know the real you. And I have a great recipe for animating gold if you literally want to make them.”
Julia: [Chuckles]
Amanda: [Chuckles]
Moiya: “Maybe your parents will accept you one day, but you don't owe it to them to wait for that to happen. And, if that bridge burns, remember that they lit the match. Burn brightly, Hephaestus.”
Amanda: Hmm.
Julia: Damn, Hephaestus.
Moiya: Yeah, Hephaestus coming out with the truth.
Julia: Mhmm.
Moiya: So, Hephaestus is the Greek god of fire, metalworking, forging, and crafting. He was born to Hera. Some say that she birthed him in retaliation for Zeus’ birthing Athena from his forehead. And, you know, the idea of, like, a revenge birth is a little strange to me, but you do you, Hera. So, Hera took one look at Hephaestus, who, like many gods, was born pretty much fully formed but was ugly and, according to some accounts, lame. He was disabled. So, she threw him. Literally, threw him off of Mount Olympus. Please do not get your parenting advice from Hera.
Julia: No. Or Zeus for that matter.
Moiya: Or Zeus. Yeah.
Julia: Really any of the Greek gods. Just not one of them.
Moiya: Just not one of them. Yeah, maybe Leto. Maybe.
Julia: Maybe.
Moiya: But that didn't stop Hephaestus from becoming the most famous metalsmith in all of Greece. He crafted Athena’s shield, Eros’ or Cupid's arrows, and the golden chariot that pulled Apollo across the sky every day. And that's just a couple of the things that Hephaestus made. And, so, what I really love about Hephaestus’ message is that it's not like he's saying, “Oh, my, my disability made me stronger.” Or it's – like, it's not inspiration porny – I don't think – from Hephaestus, but it's, it's a sign of understanding that there are going to be people in your life who don't know or don't care to know who you are and who you need to be. And that shouldn't be on you to, to try and deal with that. And the only thing that you can do in that situation is learn to love yourself and accept you and find people who can be your family and your community.
Julia: 100 percent.
Moiya: Yeah.
Amanda: Totally. And people who have been in similar situations, you know, making, in your case, other trans friends, finding trans community and support, whether through online support groups, you know, in-person resource centers, or just circles of friends or people online who you know get it in a way that, you know, the three of us don't—
Moiya: Mhmm.
Amanda: —I know is going to be so helpful for you. So, if you don't have a ton of trans joy and gender euphoria in your life and people who are making exactly the life that they want for themselves, I know that it's out there for you to find.
Julia: Yeah.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: I got nothing else to say. Hephaestus rocked that one.
Moiya: [Chuckles]
Amanda: No. Beautiful. And I think this is both creepy and wonderful and a good note to end on. This question is titled Crow Parent. And it comes from Gotbetterthingstodo on Instagram.
Moiya: [Chuckles]
Amanda: Is it okay to feed the crows?
Julia: “Your shoulders are perched, my brother on one and I on the other. From here, we can whisper in your ear the secret language of the crows. Our Father, the all father, knows our language well and we whisper to him the secrets that we collect. In his battles, after he hunts, we feast on what remains. Constant companions who know what is to come when we travel with him. We hear that our kin generations and cycles later do the same. Bringing gifts to those who feed them. We bring the all father our namesakes, thought, and memory and feast on the bounty of what he slays. We are ravens. We are thought. We are memory and our loyalty remains to those who know how to call us back again and again. So, since you're asking about corvids, it makes sense to get your answer from some of the most famous ravens in mythology in my humble opinion. That is Huginn and Muninn from Norse lore. So, Huginn’s name means thought. Muninn’s name means memory or mind. And they were the companions of Odin. It was said that the pair of ravens would, like, fly all across Midgard and would bring Odin information about, like, just what was going on. In a lot of art, the two ravens are seeing perched on either one of Odin’s shoulders, whispering information into his ear. And, as such, Odin was sometimes referred to as raven god. Odin was said to have given the two ravens the gift of speech. And some sources say that the two ravens would seek out information from dead men who would then, like, spill their secrets in death, which I think is really neat.
Moiya: It’s badass.
Julia: Fun facts relating to Odin giving ravens the power of speech, raven, similar to parrots, can mimic human speech. There's a lot of examples that can be found online of ravens from, like, zoos and wildlife centers who have learned to mimic their keepers and caretakers, which I just think is really cool.
Amanda: Terrifying. Amazing.
Julia: So, to answer your question in a more practical way, yes, it is okay to feed crows. Things you should absolutely not feed them; onions, chocolate, beans, cooked or uncooked, anything with honey, mushrooms, avocado, anything with caffeine, and, also, tomatoes. Foods that you probably have around the house that you might want to feed the Ravens include dried pet food, which is, like, among their favorite things. But also a cheaper option is whole shelled peanuts.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: They also love eggs, meat scraps, and other nuts. My source didn't specify whether they meant cooked or raw eggs, but these guys are omnivores. So, they probably will eat them either way. That's fine. I also know that, like, a lot of people on the internet are super into the idea of, like, befriending crows and ravens and getting gifts out of it. There was that story about the little girl, Gabby, who got a bunch of attention back in 2015 because she started feeding her neighborhood crows. And the crows just started leaving her gifts as payment like little buttons and pieces of jewelry. And, one time, they returned her mother's camera lens after she lost it, which is—
Amanda: Incredible.
Julia: —wild.
Amanda: Incredible.
Julia: This is not the norm, by any means. But crows and other corvids are incredibly smart. And, when you start to feed them and kind of set up a routine, they will learn it, which is cool as hell. Just keep in mind that these are, like, wild animals. Please treat them with the respect as such. And don't try to make any crows or ravens your pets, please. Like, they’re – they're wild animals. Don't do that.
Amanda: However, if you do find yourself kind of, like, asking questions to the wind—
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: —and the crows show up and give you an answer, like, I think you should listen to them. But that's just—
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: You know, if they choose you, I think that's a gift. Like, go for it.
Julia: Yes, 100 percent.
Moiya: If an animal talks to you, you should listen to that animal.
Julia: Yes.
Amanda: 100 percent.
Julia: Probably. I don't know. If, if a crow started talking to me, but it was like, “James is dead.” I'm like, “What? No. What’s happening?”
Amanda: [Laughs]
Moiya: [Laughs]
Amanda: This could also be a very fun thing to explore in fiction and in drawing if that's something that really captures your mind.
Julia: There we go. There we go. Also, just a, a fun fact about my life, when we were living in the old house that we used to live in, we had Blue Jays that were always around. Like, there was just, like, a family of Blue Jays that was clearly nesting in the area. And we would leave them, like, shelled peanuts. Like, peanuts still in the shell. And they love that shit. They're also aggressive as hell. Crows and ravens are a little bit more chilled, but Blue Jays will, like, fight a squirrel for a peanut. I've seen it happen.
Moiya: Aren't Blue Jays pretty small?
Julia: They're like – yeah, but they'll fight a squirrel.
Moiya: Oh.
Julia: Like, a full size squirrel.
Moiya: Good for them.
Julia: They are aggressive.
Moiya: Yeah. Okay.
Julia: I love them so much. They're like my – if, like, I related to an animal, it would be a Blue Jay for sure. And they have kind of, like, an emotional connection to my family. So, I'm a big fan of Blue Jays and all the corvids. Corvids, cool and smart.
Amanda: If anybody out there is wondering about kind of professional advice for, like, asserting yourself in a relationship, maybe channel the Blue Jay.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: Maybe that'll be a good thing for you to go away with. And, if anybody wants to be more mysterious and kind of, like, a portent, good or ill, of the future, maybe channel a crow.
Julia: Yeah.
Moiya: Mhmm.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Thank you to Dr. Moiya McTier for joining us. We so appreciate it. And folks can find your links and your fantastic podcast, Exolore, in the description of this episode.
Moiya: Oh, thanks for having me again.
Julia: Of course.
Amanda: Well, thank you so much to all six of the people who trusted us with their questions. We love the chance to channel the gods, and to give you some advice, and just to be with each other for this hour. So, thank you so, so much. And, remember, you can always send us more questions at spiritspodcast.com. Our contact form has a little drop down menu where you can select what you're writing about. And we look forward to seeing you in two months with another Advice from Folklore episode.
Moiya: See you then.
Julia: And, remember, stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil