Calling Back to Crince | Your Urban Legends 118
/The world is READY for this Urban Legends episode, featuring ghostly white pants on a muddy hike, creepy child phrasing, and of course, a call back to our favorite ghost, Crince.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of colonization, pregnancy, stillbirth, and miscarriage.
Housekeeping
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Send in those urban legend emails!
- Submit Your Urban Legends Audio: Call us! 617-420-2344
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And we are back with another Hometown Urban Legends episode. I'm excited. The world is excited. Our listeners are excited. I don't know why the world is excited, but—
AMANDA: Well, Julia, the world's excited because we got a hot and fresh urban legend sent to us as of this recording 38 minutes ago.
JULIA: Whoa.
AMANDA: Do you want to hear it?
JULIA: Yeah, of course. I want to hear it.
AMANDA: This is from Micah, [0:59] titled, The Subaru Ghost Really Likes Nirvana.
JULIA: Oh, okay.
AMANDA: "Hey, Spirits team, Micah here, longtime listener and fan, and I have a story to tell you that happened two minutes ago."
JULIA: Whoa.
AMANDA: So, Julia, this happened, like, in the last probably hour and a half.
JULIA: Hot and fresh.
AMANDA: It deserves to come onto the episode. Okay. "To set the scene, it is a rainy day in my Philly suburbs." It's also raining here because we live near Philly.
JULIA: We were just talking about how we were both sleepy because it's rainy outside.
AMANDA: So good. Okay." I'm doing a delivery for work. My coworker and friend, KJ, is driving the company car. We were talking but had fallen into a comfortable silence when he said to me, 'Do you want to play music or should I?' My phone was already connected to the car's Bluetooth, so I said I would do it."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "I opened Spotify, where it says a song by Negative 25 was paused."
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: "I skipped to the next song because I was part way through and didn't want to start halfway through a song. And Ashton Irwin began to play for about two seconds before it goes back to N25."
JULIA: Huh.
AMANDA: "Strange. I skip forward again and Smells Like Teen Spirit plays."
JULIA: Uh-huh.
AMANDA: "KJ said he didn't rewind to that song when I asked him. I believe him, as he's yet to lie to me."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "In short, car 24 is haunted and I want to go home. The DJ is DJing and making sure that only the songs that they like play in the car."
JULIA: I like the ghost DJ.
AMANDA: Because Julia, like KJ said, "Do you want to play music or should I?"
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: KJ could have been addressing the ghost.
JULIA: Could have been,
AMANDA: And the ghost could be like, "What the hell? Why is this person, Micah, skipping the song that I very clearly set up for us?"
JULIA: I think the ghost also needs to be reminded of car etiquette, which is if you are in the passenger seat—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —your job is DJ.
AMANDA: It is.
JULIA: So KJ was DJ in this situation, I believe.
AMANDA: KJ was driving, Micah was in the passenger seat.
JULIA: Oh, okay. So really the ghost was fucking with Micah's role in the car. and that's unacceptable.
AMANDA: Oh, the ghost was backseat DJing.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: That's not okay. You know, unless like the ghost and Micah were occupying the same space, which I don't personally want to think about.
AMANDA: No. I don't want to think about a ghost's body in my body, sort of consuming the same space.
JULIA: Yes. And I mean, like, that's fine if, like, maybe the ghost was leaning over the seat and looking at the phone in order to say, "Oh, no, I want that song."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Totally okay. However, you know, you don't backseat DJ. You just don't.
AMANDA: You don't.
JULIA: Unless you've been given permission by the person in the passenger seat to backseat DJ.
AMANDA: Exactly. The order of operations is very sound.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Exactly, exactly. You know, that's actually really funny, Amanda, because I also have a car ghost email.
AMANDA: No way!
JULIA: This is an email from Vesper, they/them, titled My Haunted Car?
AMANDA: Let's go.
JULIA: "Hi, Spirits team. I'm writing in to tell you about something that has happened recently to me as of writing this, and this was on the 21st of February. First of all, I would like to state that I absolutely love the podcast and I'm battling through the backlog of Urban Legends episodes." Hopefully battling in a good way and not a bad way.
AMANDA: The backlog, you know, slowly grows, but we believe in you.
JULIA: "Here is the story. I was driving in the car with my mom to my synchronized swimming training." Extremely cool.
AMANDA: Oh, my God, adorable.
JULIA: "Driving slowly and listening to music as we left our compound, so like the area where we live. The sound that beeps when a seatbelt is not fastened starts beeping."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "We both check our seatbelts and we both have them fastened. A moment later, the sound stopped and then it would start and go off a couple of more times during the drive."
AMANDA: How annoying.
JULIA: "I stated to my mom that we most likely had a ghost in the car."
AMANDA: Obviously.
JULIA: "Afterwards, the beeping stopped. Now, I believe that the ghost is someone from my family because I used to get haunted as well as [5:11] still get visited by them." That's— hey.
AMANDA: Hey, Vesper, are you okay?
JULIA: You need to give us more information about that, first off. Wild. Also, it's interesting because these particular like, "Oh, the seatbelt is not fastened," things, they're weight sensitive, right?
AMANDA: They are.
JULIA: So they only go off if they sense that someone is physically seated in the seat.
AMANDA: Julia, are you about to say that the ghost was trying to sit on your lap and then the alarm would go off and they got shy?
JULIA: No! That's not. I'm saying it is occupying physical space.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And so is setting off the someone's seatbelt is not fastened thing.
AMANDA: I think the ghost just wants uppies and wants to sit on your lap.
JULIA: Okay, interesting. I don't know if that would work physically, but I love that journey for you personally.
AMANDA: I know that seatbelts indicators are now weight-based in cars. It makes total logical sense. How else could you do it?
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: But I didn't really get it physically until I was visiting Bailey and Koda in Hawaii. And Koda is like 25, but sometimes 26 pounds. And the seatbelt indicator limit for her pickup truck is 25 pounds on the passenger seat.
JULIA: Hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: So she's like, "Yeah, I know when I need to cut back on Koda's food because the seatbelt indicator will go off if he ever rides in the front."
JULIA: That is so funny. That is genuinely hilarious.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Just to finish Vesper's message out, "Has been haunted in the past, still gets visited sometimes by family ghosts. I love those visits because the ghost/ghosts helped me get through my breakdowns and gender dysphoria." Incredible. I love that.
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: Also want to hear more about that.
AMANDA: Love supportive ancestors.
JULIA: "So, I'd say the ghost that visited us in the car was just a little child that wanted to have some fun."
AMANDA: That's really cute.
JULIA: "Thanks for reading, and I've got a couple more stories about ghosts visiting me and my grandparents deciding to give me trauma for life."
AMANDA: Sorry about the trauma, but I do want to hear about the ghost visits.
JULIA: I cannot believe we had two haunted ghost cars, Amanda. That's wild.
AMANDA: Not since Nicolas Cage took to the road in a haunted motorbike, or he was haunted on a motorbike. I haven't actually seen that film. Have we had such a ghost-based car urban legend about that? [7:33]
JULIA: Uh-hmm. That is true.
AMANDA: I remember as a kid being so excited for the time that I would be allowed to sit in the front seat of the car. So I particularly like Vesper's—
JULIA: Oh, yeah.
AMANDA: —hypothesis that this is a kid who wanted uppies, who wanted some lap time, who wanted to sit in the front seat of the car.
JULIA: And apparently had enough ghostly weight to set off the seatbelt alarm. That's very funny.
AMANDA: I also— you know what, Amanda? I take it back. I did not mean to say your logic does not work, because if they did crawl into the lap of someone during this car ride, then their seatbelt alarm would have stopped going off. So maybe they were, like, crawling into the front seat and then crawled back into the back seat, and then that's when the alarm would go off. Okay, I feel you. I'm on board now.
AMANDA: To be fair, I thought of a haunting scenario, which is a ghost trying to crawl onto your lap, but not just simply, like, existing in the same place as you. So your alarm was founded.
JULIA: They're both bad. Regardless, the situation seems bad.
AMANDA: I think we can all agree here, Julia. Both stories are bad.
JULIA: Both stories are bad.
AMANDA: Well, Julia, I've talked about Bailey and Koda and I miss those folks, so why don't I bring you a story from their hometown of Oahu, Hawaii?
JULIA: Ooh! Okay. Hit me with it.
AMANDA: This Urban Legend comes from Kimmy, [8:47] she/her, and it's titled Unexpected Hotel Guests.
JULIA: Okay, interesting.
AMANDA: Kimmy writes, "Hello, I am a longtime listener, first time writing inner. Throughout my life, born and raised on Oahu, Hawaii, I have had several, maybe more than several supernatural/unusual encounters."
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: "So much so that when it happens, it doesn't really surprise or even scare me that much anymore." Scary movies don't scare me at this point. I'm just saying.
JULIA: Fair.
AMANDA: "To preface this encounter, the company my husband works for decided to have their annual company party at a hotel at Kaanapali in Maui. This, of course, requires a short plane flight to get to Maui from Oahu. To people who may not know, Hawaii's made up of several islands. Oahu is the biggest one with Honolulu on it. Maui is very close. It's like a puddle jumper flight. We get to the hotel, check in, and it turns out our room is on the ground floor, which is kind of unusual."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "My first time ever staying in a ground floor room, and there is a lanai view of other hotel's guests walking outside, with pretty minimal privacy if you leave the curtains open, like your room borders public pathways."
JULIA: That's weird, but okay.
AMANDA: Unless I— like there are definitely rooms where you have, like, private, like, beachfront or—
JULIA: Right.
AMANDA: —pool access which I get, but this is like, "Oh, no, my room is, like, right there."
JULIA: Yeah, it's like anyone could walk up to your window/door.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Weird.
AMANDA: "So this is a relatively small hotel. It's only about four floors high. And just to give you a brief layout, you enter the hotel room. The bathroom is immediately on your right. Continuing straight ahead of you is the general room zone with the bed. And then at the end of the room, there is a large sliding door to the lanai or patio. Very typical hotel room."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "We drop off our things and kill some time, exploring the string of hotels and beaches on the Kaanapali Coast. The day ends with the company party where, of course, many drinks were had. This party ended around 10:00 p.m. but, of course, attendees hang out afterward and people were drinking, laughing, and off-key singing until around 1:00 a.m."
JULIA: Do you know what just struck me, Amanda?
AMANDA: What?
JULIA: The fact that the word lanai is probably Hawaiian, isn't it?
AMANDA: Yeah, it is.
JULIA: Wow, that just— I can't believe it took me that long to figure that out. Anyway—
AMANDA: No, a lot of white suburban moms refer to a lanai, which is, in fact, a, like, specific indoor-outdoor room in Hawaii where you live outdoor all year long.
JULIA: Yep. They like to use the phrase lanai in Florida. I'll let you know that.
AMANDA: They do. It's like, "Guys, that's a porch. We're in the south. "My husband and I walked a fellow coworker to his room before heading back to our own. He took a quick shower and went to bed right away. I wasn't really drinking. I felt perfectly fine. I'm usually the DD when we go to company parties. So I showered after him as he was already snoozing, turned off the hotel room lights, and got into bed. My husband was in a very deep sleep, bless him, and I dozed off as well. Now, for me, I don't normally like sleeping in hotels because it lacks the feeling of home or that, like, recognizable feel of comfort. But in this case, it had been a long day. We had to go to the airport, a late night at the party, so I was tired."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "Next thing I know, I wake up suddenly."
JULIA: Uh-oh.
AMANDA: "My eyes quickly adjusting to the dark. I turned my head to look at the hotel nightstand clock, which said 3:20 a.m."
JULIA: Uh-oh. The witching hour.
AMANDA: "Now, there wasn't any noise or anything specific that woke me up. It was more like a very sudden and palpable feeling."
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: "I can't quite explain it, but as I looked around the room, my eyes stopped at the large sliding doors. There were, of course, room darkening curtains, like there are in every hotel room, that were closed."
JULIA: Oh, no.
AMANDA: "But the edges still had a glow of light from the outside, because—"
JULIA: No, no, no, no.
AMANDA: "—we're on the ground floor. The lanai was right outside, connected to the public sidewalk and park area with streetlights, all of that."
JULIA: Oh, fuck this. Hate this.
AMANDA: Julia, why does this creep you out so much?
JULIA: I— because I know that there's something behind that curtain. You know what I mean? Like, I was just reading a great horror novel that Jake is now reading after me. And there is a part where there is a thing— the person wakes up in the middle of the night, their dog is on their bed, the dog is growling at the ground floor window.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: And there is something in the window. And when Jake got to the part after read— after I read it, he was like, "Oh, shit." I was like, "I know, I know. It's so scary." So this is blatantly reminding me of this. And this— again, like I said, I'm like, "Oh, I don't like the idea of the ground floor, lanai of a hotel 'cause anyone could walk up to your room."
AMANDA: Yep, not good.
JULIA: Ugh!
AMANDA: Okay. So darkening curtains, glow of light around it, because it's still like a public area outside. "I blinked a few times because I thought I had been seeing things, but no. What I saw was very clear and wasn't going away. Two large shadowy figures stood side by side in front of the curtains, inside our hotel room."
JULIA: In front of the curtains?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: No!
AMANDA: "They were darker than the darkness of the room. They were tall. Too tall. At least seven feet, maybe eight."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "I couldn't move my body, only my head." So this is a departure, Julia, from our typical sleep paralysis stories where it's like the eyeballs are all that can move, if anything.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: This is almost worse where you could like, "I could see myself, like, trying to shake my head or get away or close my eyes, but you can't."
JULIA: I mean, like, I can understand it in the sense that, like, you turned your head and then your whole body froze.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Sure. That makes sense.
AMANDA: "Knowing that I could move my head, I had a great view as the figures hovered toward me, moving from the lanai doors toward the bed and stopping at the foot of the bed on my side."
JULIA: Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
AMANDA: "I turned my head away toward my husband, trying to wake him up, but all I could muster was a soft, 'Hey, babe. Hey, babe,' but he was out."
JULIA: "Hey, babe. Hey, babe."
AMANDA: "He was buzzed, passed out, and snoring."
JULIA: No, god damn it. And you can't even, like, shake him awake or anything.
AMANDA: Uh-uh. "I looked back at the two figures, the one standing furthest away from me, bent over and started to rummage through the bed sheet hanging off the edge of the mattress."
JULIA: Okay, first off, hard no. Also, bold of you to look away from these figures. I would not have been able to break eye contact with these to check to see if my husband was awake.
AMANDA: I hope I never find out what I would do in a situation like that, Julia, because I can see myself screaming. I can see myself throwing a pillow or something just to, like, see if it hits.
JULIA: Uh-huh.
AMANDA: I don't know. I don't know. The confrontational urge is strong.
JULIA: Hard no. God. Okay.
AMANDA: "I got the sense that this figure was looking for something."
JULIA: Get your body to drag you out of bed.
AMANDA: "I didn't feel anything touching the sheets or the bed, but I distinctly saw it. And that disconnect was very freaky. The figures didn't go away. They didn't physically do anything to me. I watched them for about a minute as the rummaging figure continued to look in the corner of the bed and then stood back up. They didn't have discernible features that I could really describe to you, but I could tell they were looking at me. I remember thinking, 'Ugh. Great.'"
JULIA: "Just what I needed."
AMANDA: "They weren't moving, weren't going away, just staring."
JULIA: My first thought is like, "Yeah, they're ghosts of tourists who, like, left their, like, passport in the hotel room." And they're like, "Who's this person? Where's our passport? We gotta get back to Long Island."
AMANDA: "I suddenly, in that moment, felt exhausted. I couldn't move, my husband wasn't waking up, I was done."
JULIA: It's 3:00 a.m.
AMANDA: "I looked at both of the figures and said, 'In Jesus' name be gone."
JULIA: Uh-oh.
AMANDA: "'I better not see you when I wake up.' Turned my head to the side and fell asleep."
JULIA: Wow. I love both Team Investigate but also— wow, damn, damn.
AMANDA: "So when I woke up later that morning, my husband was already in the bathroom brushing his teeth. He doesn't necessarily like hearing scary stories, so I chose not to say anything until after we got back to Oahu."
JULIA: Okay, that's fair. That's fair. I would have been like, "Bitch, do you know what you missed? Do you know what happened?"
AMANDA: "As we drove up from the airport, I told him what happened. His first reaction was to shout, 'What? Why didn't you say anything?' And then to just stare at me, shocked."
JULIA: "I tried!"
AMANDA: "I don't know what kind of spirit these were, but nonetheless, it was quite the experience. I hope that you were as creeped out by my description as I was living through it. And I hope you have a good day. Thank you for the great and entertaining podcast."
JULIA: Dang, that's scary.
AMANDA: Scary shit.
JULIA: I have to know what your theory as to what the ghost was searching for, Amanda.
AMANDA: I mean, I'm gonna assume that this hotel was built in a shady way.
JULIA: That's fair.
AMANDA: Either on land that wasn't properly purchased in a, you know, colonial invasion of Hawaii, probably using laborers that were unfairly compensated or unfairly endangered. And so my first thought was like, "Oh, is there, you know, spirits from Maui trying to either gather something that was stolen or lost, or maybe trying to like, I don't know, repatriate or just reconnect with, like, some trace of the land that was built on top of and that was left behind?"
JULIA: I still cannot get over the, "Oh, my God, there's ghosts. Fuck you, ghosts."
AMANDA: I also— there maybe is like a more, you know, quotidian explanation here. Maybe because they're right off the kind of public pathway or patio, a tourist just, like, dropped a watch or a contact or an earring and so—
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: "Oh, but honey, my sunglasses, my Ray-Bans." Like, I don't know.
JULIA: Yeah, it's very possible. It's very possible.
AMANDA: I'm happy to tell you, Kimmy, that we have a fascinating author talking about Hawaiian folklore coming to the show later this year. I just got the book in the mail today.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Of course, we've also covered the Night Marchers, but like, Hawaiian folklore goes so hard.
JULIA: Super hard.
AMANDA: And there are so many intersections of development and belief, and it's just so much there.
JULIA: All right, Amanda, before we continue, I think I'm going to need a refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
[theme]
JULIA: Hey, this is Julia. And welcome to the refill. Thank you so much to our newest patrons, Jeff and Avery. [19:39] You join the ranks of our supporting producer-level patrons like Uhleeseeuh, Hannah, Scott, Anne, Matthew, Lily, and Wil. And, of course, our legend-level patrons, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Audra, Sarah, Bea Me Up Scotty, Morgan, Bex, Rikoelike, Chibi Yokai, and Michael. And hey, you too can join our Patreon by going to patreon.com/spiritspodcast today. You can sign up for a seven-day free trial, highly recommend, where you can get cool rewards like our ad-free episodes, our bonus urban legends episodes, recipe cards for every single gosh darn episode and so much more. Check that out. That is at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. And today, I want to tell you about another show here at Multitude that is Tiny Matters. Science shapes every facet of our lives, but so much of its influence is overlooked or buried in the past. Tiny Matters is a award-winning science podcast about tiny things, from molecules to microbes that have a big and often surprising impact on society, past and present. From deadly diseases to forensic toxicology, to the search for extraterrestrial life, hosts and former scientists Sam Jones and Deboki Chakravarti embrace that awe and messiness of science and its significance. Asking questions like, what do glaciers tell us about Earth's ancient past? Can we resurrect an ancient species? And if so, should we? A question that is often asked in the Jurassic Park franchise. And will humans ever live on Mars? As a person who loves both speculative science fiction and fantasy, a lot of the questions that I have about those genres are sometimes answered on Tiny Matters. It is a wonderful, wonderful show. Tiny Matters is created by the American Chemical Society, a nonprofit scientific organization based in Washington, D.C., and is produced by Multitude. New episodes every Wednesday wherever you listen to podcasts. And now, let's get back to the show.
[theme]
JULIA: Amanda, we are back. And hey, what have you been drinking lately that you love?
AMANDA: Well, Julia, talking about Hawaii makes me think of Pog and I miss it so bad.
JULIA: Hmm. Yeah.
AMANDA: This is, of course, pineapple orange guava juice and good God, I wish we had Pog out here.
JULIA: I low-key love guava juice. Guava is a underappreciated flavor and one of my favorites. And if a place has a guava margarita on the menu, or honestly, like any guava-flavored thing on the menu, I'm getting it.
AMANDA: That's it. It's over for you, hoes.
JULIA: It's over.
AMANDA: How about you?
JULIA: I have been really enjoying— Jake and I made a, from scratch, hibiscus lemonade that we— because I accidentally got Jake into Bridgerton and he really likes the idea that, like, they're constantly drinking lemonade at all these balls that they go to.
AMANDA: Very cute.
JULIA: And so I made a hibiscus lemonade and then like occasionally, we'll just throw a little gin in there just to spice things up.
AMANDA: Very cute. Yeah, I have been shopping recently at a market that has, like, real Jamaican ingredients and got some sorrel to make hibiscus iced tea. Oh, it's so good.
JULIA: It always throws me off because whenever I hear sorrel, I think of, like, the green edible weed that grows in my garden.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: And that's also used for hibiscus.
AMANDA: It is true.
JULIA: Fun fact for you.
AMANDA: Julia, what other urban legends have you got for me?
JULIA: Would you like to hear a spooky State Park story?
AMANDA: Oh, yes, please!
JULIA: This is from Emma, who writes, "Hey, there, Amanda and Julia, congratulations on a decade of Spirits."
AMANDA: Thank you.
JULIA: "I am a longtime fan and have been listening to the show almost since the beginning and it's meant so much to have you guys around for so long."
AMANDA: That's crazy. Thank you.
JULIA: "As someone without a sense of the supernatural, I have loved hearing listener stories about their experiences."
AMANDA: Julia, I really thought that sentence was gonna end in a person without a sense of smell. Don't know why. Don't know why my brain went there, but I was like, "Oh, sorry."
JULIA: Yeah. "As a person without a sense of smell, I can't be haunted by smells."
AMANDA: I mean, great. That sounds like an upside.
JULIA: "I've not had my own story to write in about until now, though. I debated sending this in until another listener sent in a story asking for advice a little while back and thought that this fit along those lines."
AMANDA: Hmm. We love it.
JULIA: "Back in June, my friend Nikki [24:19] and I went to Letchworth State Park for my birthday." A New York State Park, I should say, up by like Geneseo area.
AMANDA: Cute.
JULIA: "I hadn't been since I was a young kid and was excited to come back. Another friend of mine who frequents the park, recommended some trails to us, specifically one called Wolf Creek. They described it as 'very whimsical' and said that we would love it."
AMANDA: Love the idea of a trail as a whimsical trail.
JULIA: "It took forever to find on the park map since it isn't one of the main labeled trails, and so it ended up being one of our last stops on the way out. It's a little tucked away more than the others, though there is a small parking lot at the head of the trail. It leads to a bridge over a river and a waterfall and just past that a large mossy stone staircase that leads to the upper part of the trail."
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: "The water in the river was low enough that we were able to climb down onto larger sections of rock. Nikki and I took turns taking pictures of each other and while I was taking hers, this older couple walked in from the direction of the parking lot. There was a woman in a red turtleneck, a vest, and white pants." White pants while hiking is a bold fucking choice.
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: "The man was in a bright salmon T-shirt and a teal long sleeve underneath with a navy blue retired veteran hat. Now mind you, it was mid-70s out that day. So long sleeve is like surprising."
AMANDA: Hmm. And she was in a sweater, right?
JULIA: She was in a red turtleneck and a vest.
AMANDA: Huh.
JULIA: Those are warm outfits for folks who are hiking on a mid-70s day.
AMANDA: Old folks do love to make sure they're warm, which you gotta respect, but yeah, that's a lot.
JULIA: "So the man asked if we wanted a photo of the both of us. I said yes, and he took a few pictures of us, very excited when we asked for one more to do a silly pose. When we met back up on the trail, they explained that they used to hike with a larger group and always made sure to get a silly photo as well."
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: "I asked if they wanted a photo of the two of them and the woman declined, saying they had plenty of photos."
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: "We thanked them and they walked ahead on the trail to the right, away from the staircase and out of our field of view. Now, we were planning on going up the stairs, but we assumed that this couple knew a better way around the trail and decided that we would head in the same direction. We had to climb back up to the trail from the riverbed, but this only took us a minute. We followed where they went and very quickly found a dead end in the trail. The couple was nowhere to be found and they would have had to pass us to turn around."
AMANDA: Julia, was there a car in the parking lot?
JULIA: We'll find out. "Now, you could get to the road up a small hill, so we shrugged it off and assumed that was what they had done."
AMANDA: Yeah. Okay, this older couple is scrambling? I don't think so. Uh-uh.
JULIA: It's a small hill. You know, it's not necessarily a scramble. We'll see.
AMANDA: I am mentally invested in the idea of them being ghosts.
JULIA: "We turned around to take the stone stairs to the upper trail. Imagine our confusion when, once we got to the top of the staircase, we saw the same couple walking along the path towards us. We felt silly because, obviously, we missed a path, right? Like they must have, like, gone this other direction and then found another path that led up to the upper part of the path."
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: "We ended up stopping and talking with the couple again, this time for a little bit longer. They talked about how they loved the Wolf Creek Trail and mentioned some of the changes in time that they had been coming here. They asked us how we had found this spot since it's not well defined on the map. I explained that a friend recommended it and then they asked us where we had started the trail from. I said, 'The parking lot right in front of the trail,' and they looked confused. But that's where we watched them walk in from. They spoke like they had been walking for a better portion of the day."
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: "But with no bags or water bottles in sight and those pristine white pants the woman was wearing, it was odd."
AMANDA: Damn. Ghosts don't need to hydrate, baby. One small thing to look forward to in the afterlife, you don't have to hydrate or pee.
JULIA: That's true. That's true. God, if I had to never pee again, that would be the dream.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "We were still confused about how they got where they were, but I figured we would be able to find the way they came up as we continued on the trail and eventually looped back around." Now, this is like really interesting because as someone who enjoys hiking new trails, trying to figure out sort of where you are on the trail in comparison to where you started is always sort of, like, a little bit of a guessing game. I'm a really bad judge of, like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —how long I've been walking versus how far we've gone. And so a lot of times if I'm doing like a sort of in and out trail, which is, like, it's one trail, you just go all the way in on that trail and then come all the way back. I'm always like, "It's only 10 more minutes to the car." And Jake's like, "We've been walking for 30 minutes to get to this point. You think it's going to take 10 minutes to get back to the car?" And I'm like, "Yeah." So this is very interesting to me. Emma continues, "We walked along the trail without finding any branching paths for about 10 minutes. Then we reached another dead end, where tree roots and tall weeds had gathered so tightly that you couldn't really go through. We went off the trail, cutting through the woods to try to find the path that we must have missed."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "But there was no way the couple could have done that, because it had been a rainy week and the woods were slick and muddy."
AMANDA: The white pants never lie, Julia.
JULIA: "Also, we didn't see any other people on our walk, but the parking lot that was almost full when we arrived was empty when we came back. We got in my car, Nikki locked my doors, and we started looking through my camera roll to build a timeline using the timestamps on the photos."
AMANDA: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If— Julia, if you tell me that there is not a photo of the two of them at the fucking riverbank, I'm quitting this podcast.
JULIA: Well, listen here, this is the timeline according to the timestamps from the photos that they had. "We were taking pictures of us at 4.01. I took a photo of the water next to us at 4.02 before we hopped back up to the trail where we had lost the couple. We turned around and were at the stone steps by 4.05 and saw the couple coming from further down the trail at the top of the steps."
AMANDA: So it was literally, like, two minutes?
JULIA: It was like, yeah, three minutes max.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: "At 4.09, I took another photo right after we finished speaking to the couple, I assume for the second time. My last photo was taken at 4.17, right before we wandered through the woods for about 15 minutes. We made it back to my car just about 4.30. Now, I don't see any way the couple could have gotten where they were so fast without passing us."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "After we left, we grabbed lunch at a nearby diner and did some research. We didn't find much for hauntings, and what we did find was that they were always Victorian-style ghosts. These people weren't wearing clothes anything older than maybe the '80s. I even spoke with my friend who gave us directions afterwards, and they had no clue what had happened with that trail. Now, Nikki is convinced that the couple were ghosts. Given how they seemed to disappear and reappear somewhere that they could not have walked, it makes sense. But I'm not so sure, though. The man held my phone and took multiple photographs for us. And they seemed almost hyper real to me."
Amanda; Hmm.
JULIA: "My belief is that this could maybe have been an odd Fae trick, either hold some kind of answer for the clean clothes on such a muddy hiking day and lack of—"
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "—any supplies that you'd see with people who spent their whole day walking in the woods. But I would love to hear your thoughts on this."
AMANDA: Oh, this is such a good email. Okay, sorry, I said I was gonna quit the podcast, but if he had taken the photos on the phone and then the photos disappeared later, I would have freaked out.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: I do think the Fae hypothesis holds water here because at first, I thought, okay, maybe they are ghosts and, like, weren't around when the parking lot was built. And, like, they got to know the trail without that sort of, like, convenient parking lot and they were a little bit confused as to why it's there. But it would also make sense if they were Fae that they wouldn't want to be near all that metal and asphalt. Like, ugh, who needs that?
JULIA: Hmm. Yeah, good point. Good point. I think also what's interesting about this, too, is the fact that they seemed like they had been hiking for so long. These outfits are wild. Like the—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —outfits that are happening here are particularly odd in a way that feels like Fae pretending to be people.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: You know? Like, "Ah, let's put on our human disguises," but they haven't seen a human since the '80s.
AMANDA: Yes, exactly.
JULIA: So I think that could be interesting. This also reminds me of another hiking story that we told several Hometown Urban Legends ago at this point, about the person who lost time while they were on a hike.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: And so now, I'm like, we have a specific timeline, so it's not that, but maybe these either ghosts or Fae creatures were moving at an accelerated, like, timeline or pace.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And that's why it didn't register to you that they had, like, passed you already or, like, circled back around and you missed them that way.
AMANDA: Yeah. Or the, you know, land melts to meet their needs and so they, you know, can use a shortcut themselves that then doesn't show up for the human interlopers. And would explain why they wanted to know how these new people found out about this trail. Particularly, if it's a place that they frequent or it's a place that's, like, near, you know, their home. You kind of want to keep an eye on who's poking around.
JULIA: Yes. And if I've learned anything from my friend who lives in the Catskill's locals are very possessive about their sort of, like, quiet, unmarked hidden trails.
AMANDA: I would believe that.
JULIA: So I think it is very possible that if these people are locals and not just Fae, they're like, "What are you doing here?"
AMANDA: "Who are you? What's your deal?"
JULIA: "You shouldn't know about this."
AMANDA: Ugh, exquisite email.
JULIA: So good, so good.
AMANDA: Julia, can I tell you a bittersweet urban legend?
JULIA: I would love to hear it.
AMANDA: This comes from Despina, [35:08] she/her, and it's titled My Ghost Sister.
JULIA: Aw.
AMANDA: "Hey, Spirits, longtime listener, and I've been thinking about sharing my own experience with the supernatural for quite a while. I've been debating whether or not to share because it's very personal and sometimes hard to talk about, but it's a heartfelt story, and I felt the time was right."
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: "My mom is a great lady. As a kid, she was very intelligent person who despised school, and she would skip classes to go to a local women's house with women who read coffee cups, a thing in Greece where I'm from."
JULIA: Okay, yeah. I've heard of this style of divination before.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. I actually have to ask my Greek-American sister-in-law if her mom would do this for me.
JULIA: Ooh, yes.
AMANDA: Actually, nope, I don't want to know. Okay, I take that back.
JULIA: Okay, never mind.
AMANDA: I'm good, I'm good with that.
JULIA: You're good with your tarot deck. You don't want another woman reading your coffee grounds.
AMANDA: That is quite enough. And I— may I say, Julia got me a gorgeous tarot deck for my birthday and I opened it up, brought it home and I went, "Oh, boy. Oh, you're going to tell me the truth when I don't like it."
JULIA: Uh-huh.
AMANDA: "Okay." It was like a strong energy.
JULIA: That was the energy of the deck when I picked it up and I was like, "I hope Amanda likes this."
AMANDA: And, you know, I need it in my collection and I was also like, "I'm gonna just lovingly place you on my cabinet."
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: All right, back to Despina. "My mom was really in touch with the spirit world and is known to have predicted a few things for members of our family before they happen. I, myself, am not rfeally like her, but I'm almost ready to believe that fairies, ghosts, or spirits are close by."
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: "When I was about 12, I started getting weird dreams. I'd be visited by a teenage girl dressed in white with green eyes like mine and my mom's and dyed blonde hair. She would come, smile at me, and then turn around to speak with a group of other people who I couldn't see but assumed just based on their energy that they were her friends. After visiting me every night for a week, one night she came even closer in my dream, smiled benevolently down at me and whispered, 'Thank you.'"
JULIA: Hmm. Okay.
AMANDA: "Knowing that my mom could interpret dreams and tell me what this was about, I went to her that morning after the eighth dream and told her about the pretty girl who smiles at me when I go to sleep."
JULIA: Terrifying way to phrase it. Just gonna say that out.
AMANDA: She is 11.
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: Despina was 11, so you know—
JULIA: Well, listen, there's no age limit on creepy child, at least until you become a full-ass adult.
AMANDA: That's true. "I was shocked when my mom burst into real tears. She came, hugged me, and asked me what the girl looked like and whether she was happy or sad."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "I told her she seemed happy to see me and was always with a bunch of friends, so it felt like she was having fun. And then my mom told me the part I didn't know, which is that when she first married my dad, they had trouble getting pregnant and had at one point a stillbirth. She told me that for years after that, she would see a little girl in her sleep. She would take care of the little girl every night, feed her, sing to her, do her hair in cute hairstyles. After four years of dreams like this, my mom had still not managed to have a child. But one night, she was dreaming about that little girl. Apparently in the dream, it was her first day at preschool, which starts when kids are four years old here in Greece. My mom put her hair into pigtails, gave her a little school bag, and took her to school. The girl waved at her and said, 'I think I might like it a lot here. You can go now.'"
JULIA: Ugh.
AMANDA: "She came less often to my mother's dreams after that. And about six months after that preschool dream, my mom found out she was pregnant with me."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: "A few years after I had that first strange dream around my 12th birthday, I must have been about 17 preparing for college entrance exams, which is brutal for kids here in Greece."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "I was up one Saturday night, very late studying. I got out of my bedroom and went to the kitchen to make some coffee. Not recommended at 3:00 a.m., but to be fair, I had an ancient Greek language exam."
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: "And as I turned my head in the dark kitchen, I saw a glittering figure, like a shape imprinted on your eyelids when you look at a bright light and then close them. It was a young woman carrying a baby on her hip. Her hair was in a ponytail and she was looking at me, showing off the adorable baby she was holding. I realized this was my sister and smiled and waved and then she vanished."
JULIA: Wow.
AMANDA: "I like to think that my mom and I both saw my sister in different parts of her life as she may have lived them. It feels as if the footprint she would have left in our lives is so great that it somehow transcends this timeline. My mom saw her as a school kid and still sees her to this day, but I like to think that she wanted to confide in me with her new baby and show her off like sisters do. Thank you, Spirits, for a wonderful podcast. I love your comments and your analysis. Please keep making this beautiful thing. Stay creepy. Stay cool. Des."
JULIA: That is such a beautiful story. I really like this idea of the parallels of, like, who this person would have been had she, like, you know, been able to live a full life and everything. I like that analysis, particularly, because as the story was being told, she described the what I assumed at the time was a ghost as having bleached blonde hair. And I was like—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: "—Who bleached that child's hair? Who did that to them?" But now, I really—
AMANDA: "How?"
JULIA: —like this idea of like—
AMANDA: "What?"
JULIA: —yeah, if she had been living her life, she would have dyed her hair blonde or something like that. That's very sweet.
AMANDA: Exactly. And, yeah, this was a significantly older sister. So when Des was, you know, almost 12, her sister would have been about 18. Later at 17, when she, you know, sees this later version, she's 23, having her own family. I like— I always, you know, wonder if like the bittersweet ones, like how it's going to come across for the audience. But, like, this is also how memory and hope and wishes show up in our lives. And I think it's so beautiful and such a, like, healthy and lovely way to, you know, think about this person and the fact that you have and always will have had a sister present in your lives and thinking about the life she may be living elsewhere, maybe could have lived, or maybe is just living, you know, alongside with you.
JULIA: That's really beautiful, Amanda.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Do you want to hear a very lighthearted urban legend to take us out?
AMANDA: That sounds perfect.
JULIA: This is from Ricky, [41:47] she/her, titled, That Time Me and My Roommate Heard Something: The Giraffe Story.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: "Hello, Amanda and Julia. I hereby wanted to send you a very short, sweet, but spooky thing that happened to me and my roommate, Em. [42:02] Some time ago, Em got a small stuffed giraffe from a friend. He was small, vaguely yellow with cute button eyes. My roommate would hold him in her fist like she was honking a horn,"
which is an extremely funny way to describe it. "She was very pleased to have him because she is obsessed with giraffes. We had a conversation about possible names for him, and at one point, we both stopped talking to come up with a name. And then at the same time, We both said, "Sean."
AMANDA: "Sean."
JULIA: And then looked at each other bewildered and then exploded into laughter.
AMANDA: Are we in Ireland? I feel like that's not the name that would come to mind for me in the U.S.
JULIA: No. And you'll see exactly why this is so funny as well. So she asks, "How the hell could this be a coincidence? Did Sean politely tell his name to us in our heads?"
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: "Was Sean just a little bit haunted? Sadly, Em lost Sean on a trip not very long after."
AMANDA: My worst nightmare!
JULIA: Yeah. "And I believe that he is somewhere exploring the world. She got the exact same giraffe stuffed animal from that friend again, but this one is not able to telepathically tell us his name, unfortunately."
AMANDA: You're not gonna name him Sean II, Sean Jr.?
JULIA: So Ricky asks, "What do you think? Was Sean haunted or did me and Em's ADHD sync up and we came up with the same name together? Now mind you, we are Dutch, so the name Sean is not very logical to call your stuffed animal as that name is very English."
AMANDA: Huh.
JULIA: What do you think?
AMANDA: Okay. First thought is that there was a ghost named Sean in the particular geographical area where you were hanging out. And when they went to, you know, think of a name and were going back and forth, there was a moment of silence. He, in the moment, broadcasted, "Sean."
JULIA: That's really good. That's really good. This reminds me of the haunted apartment that made no sense with the layout and then they found the pizza coupon. Do you remember that one?
AMANDA: I do remember that.
JULIA: Crince!
AMANDA: Oh, Crince!
JULIA: Oh, thank God, Amanda, we remembered Crince.
AMANDA: You know, I searched the inbox for the word coupon, Julia.
JULIA: I said pizza ghost.
AMANDA: I must say there have only been two emails. There have been two related to Crince and then a third one about a haunted craft store, which also had a coupon. God, I love Crince. And if you remember, Julia, we do have the image of the voucher itself.
JULIA: We do. Expired so long ago, truly so long ago.
AMANDA: On New Year's Eve 1995, and it was a gift certificate for two free orders of twisty breadsticks and four free Coca-Cola's classic or Diet.
JULIA: Uh-huh. With the purchase of any Domino's Pizza or Super Sub.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: I just really love the idea of a ghost being like, "I don't know what year it is. Do you guys want a free pizza?" Also, Crince is so funny as a name. Like, Sean, maybe you were watching an English language TV show where a character was named Sean and you both—
AMANDA: Of course.
JULIA: —just kind of synced up at the same time. Shout out to Crince, though. That's not a name.
AMANDA: Shout out to Crince, shout out to Dylan [45:21] who brought Crince to our consciousness in 2019. If you want to go search the transcripts for Crince, I absolutely welcome you.
JULIA: Oh, man. Man, I cannot believe— listen, we've been doing this for 10 years. Crince, still beloved in my heart.
AMANDA: Crince is never gonna leave me and maybe— I guess we missed the 30th anniversary of that particular coupon on New Year's Eve last year, but I'm glad we get to give it a shout out today.
JULIA: Crince, we're sorry we missed your anniversary. Sean, you have a new anniversary now.
AMANDA: Yes!
JULIA: Today is Sean's anniversary now.
AMANDA: It is!
JULIA: And I think that we should all be honoring our ghost anniversary— what happened?
AMANDA: The new giraffe's name is Crince.
JULIA: Oh. Yep, you have to name the new giraffe, Crince. Sorry, it's not Sean anymore, it's Crince.
AMANDA: Not Sean, Jr., not Sean II. That is Crince the giraffe.
JULIA: Yep. Ricky, let Em know.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: It's all happening.
AMANDA: Happy to solve your dilemma, supernatural or stuffy-related.
JULIA: There you go. Well, Amanda—
AMANDA: We did it.
JULIA: —incredible episode. Great ending. Thank you for this. Next time you are searching for your lost stuffed giraffe and instead you find a Domino's coupon from 1995, remember, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
JULIA: Later, Satyrs.
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