Gardening Superstitions
/Spring has sprung, and you’re probably wondering: What should I be planting? How do I make sure my garden is a success? Well, we’ve got all the gardening superstitions and folk magic to make your garden sparkle this year.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of pregnancy, misogyny, menstruation, theft, insects, death, drowning, and poisoning.
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- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
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About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
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AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And Amanda, Spring is here officially. I mean, officially, it was here a month ago, but it's starting to actually feel like Spring as of this recording. And I love this time of year. I love seeing the trees go from brown to yellow to green to red, and all of the buds starting to appear and then leaf. I love seeing my daffodils sprout out of the ground. I love my crocuses. I love every early Spring plant because it is a excellent reminder that I will be gardening soon.
AMANDA: You are so right, Julia. And with every single year that goes by, I am more and more confused about how it is that the light in the world affects me so much as a living creature. And when there is more light later, I feel great, and when my plants respond by putting out new growth and metaphorically shaking off the dust. God, I'm excited this year. In fact, I am taking over a garden bed at our local soup kitchen.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: They have, like, a food pantry soup kitchen type situation at, like, a very cool queer church, and in the backyard, they have a bunch of raised beds where they're like, I don't know what to do with this, you want one? And I was like, absolutely. So I am going to be for the first time ever, because I love to garden, but I've so far had an illegal roof and now a fire escape that is also illegal, but it's three feet wide by two feet wide, not very big. So apart from our garden chair, where I get to come and hang out in your backyard, now I'll have something in my own neighborhood where I can go and grow all kinds of food to help feed people. So I have never been more in need of my gardening knowledge and superstition at folklore than I am right now.
JULIA: Yeah. And Amanda, that's a great point, because I do think that gardening is good for us spiritually. I also think that gardening is a inherently witchy act. It is literally magic in some ways, where, like, you place something in the soil, you put time and devotion and patience into it, and then something grows out of that.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: And I definitely feel like you mentioned before, that sort of transformation when the sun comes out and I can, like, stick my fingers in the dirt again and feel the warmth of the sun radiating from the earth as well. And there is also a scientific reason as to why that feels so magical. According to the NIH, exposure to plants and green space in particular in gardening, is beneficial to mental and physical health.
AMANDA: I sure can tell you, I feel better when I get to spend time in the outdoors than when I don't. The older I get, the more I just realize the wisdom of people who came before me. And specifically my mom and grandma and everybody else I know who is so into gardening, who is so connected to plants, it like humbles me with how true this wisdom is. And I'm just glad I get to access it, you know? And there's scientific proof behind that wisdom, which I really like. Even just viewing plants, can reduce stress, fear, anger and sadness, and it also reduces blood pressure, pulse rate and muscle tension, according to a Japanese study.
AMANDA: We'll have to see it.
JULIA: But also, like so much of folk magic and traditions like that, sort of channel the wisdom of their practitioners based on observations. So even if we didn't have that sort of scientific study to back up the data that we are talking about here, it still often, like proved to be effective in folk magic and superstition and everything like that, and then later was backed up by Science.
AMANDA: As always, our stories and ancestors have wisdom that you know, modern society is finding more and more ways to say, hey, wait a second, you were right.
JULIA: Wait, that's accurate. Okay, cool. But all this to say Amanda, gardening and plant superstitions and belief is something that can be found worldwide, and we see a lot of these folk beliefs still practice to this day. So we're gonna go over a few of these gardening beliefs today in this episode. Maybe as a lot of folks start their gardens and get them going for the season, they can use these traditions in their own gardens.
AMANDA: I'm stoked. I am right now planning out what I'm going to be doing in my new raised bed, and so I will have to be taking some notes as we go.
JULIA: Yes, please do. So, Amanda, as you know. As well as I do, people who garden tend to take their gardening very seriously. As you just mentioned, they start planning their gardens in early Spring, if not winter, or even the previous season. They're starting out what they're gonna do for next season, I love that.
AMANDA: And Julia, like all ritual, it gives us a reason to go on, baby. This is the first year that I buried some bulbs at the end of the fall that then over wintered the term for leaving a plant in the ground even when it gets very, very cold. And then, hey, lo and behold, in mid March, I get little shoots starting to pop up just when I think the winter is too long and Spring is never going to get here. So as always, man, the rhythm of the world is a nice thing to be in touch with.
JULIA: Yeah, and that's great for your Allium. So talking about your onions, your garlics, your leeks, even like I just checked my back garden after a very cold weekend, I will say. And the green onions that I planted last year and then forgot to dig up are sprouting again. So there you go.
AMANDA: I did bury the flower called an Allium because they are for my sweet tum, the forbidden bulb.
JULIA: They are.
AMANDA: They are.
JULIA: They are.
AMANDA: They are.
JULIA: So Amanda, not only are we planning seasons ahead, or at least like months ahead, before our gardens are going to be planted in the ground, but a lot of people, especially those who practice like green magic, or who take their gardening inspiration from the cycles of the earth, they swear by planning their planting with the phases of the moon.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: For example, the first quarter of the waxing moon is the best time to plant plants that bloom above the ground, so that's like your leafy greens, like spinach and lettuces or like your cucumbers, for example.
AMANDA: As opposed to like tubers?
JULIA: Yes, so opposed to like above ground seed crops. So like these are the ones that you plant deep and then they come out later.
AMANDA: Ah, yes.
JULIA: So your above ground seed crops are like your beans and your melons and your squashes and your tomatoes and stuff like that.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: That you would want to plant in the next quarter, which is like leading up to the full moon. And then the week following the full moon, that's the time where you're going to plant your root vegetables and your bulb flowers.
AMANDA: Yeah. I mean, tell me why.
JULIA: So basically, the idea is—that there are different phases that have different intentions and different energies during the moon cycle. So for example, like the New Moon is the period of renewal that is like breathing life back into the cycle. So its transition into the waxing moon is about bringing like momentum and vitality to the plants that you want to grow. And then the waning moon is a period of like decrease. So planting your root vegetables that take a little bit longer to grow, is the kind of idea here. And then you don't want to plant anything in the week leading up to the new moon, because that is a period where you want to focus on tilling and weeding, rather than planting and like moving things forward.
AMANDA: Cool. I mean, very good advice for life. Also, I downloaded an app this year to help me figure out when to track the different like watering and transplanting cycles of different plants. And something that I think also just a really good idea to get your mind around how the plant grows and so thinking about them in these broad categories of you know, ones that develop under the ground, ones that you bury deep and send shoots up and versus ones that mostly live their lives above the ground, is just a really good thing to start having a more like, dare I say, intuitive gardening practice, but just learning the things where you're not looking up every dang problem or issue that comes up. But instead being like, you know what, I feel like the onions will like this. And developing that kind of instinct and trust in yourself.
JULIA: Yeah. And there also is that sort of witchy idea that there is the general, like, changing of the cycle in following the moon cycle. I know a lot of it is sort of tied to, like the feminine energy and like the cycles that our body goes through. But also, like, there is a certain like idea that, like, yeah, you should take a week off of not planting things and just focusing on tilling the garden and making sure that the weeds are pulled out and stuff like that. Like that makes sense to sort of have your rest week where the plants can have time to grow before you, like, start focusing on the next month.
AMANDA: Exactly, Julia. They say, never skip leg day, but you should skip planting week and make sure you're weeding.
JULIA: You don't skip leg day. But the fact is, leg day is not every day, you know what I mean. I'm saying you know.
AMANDA: Tank tops don't have room for that full piece of wisdom.
JULIA: We don't. We don't . Too much text, and everyone's like, squinting at your chest, and you're like, please stop.
AMANDA: No, don't—don't do that.
JULIA: So Amanda, obviously planting is as important as cultivating your garden and planning everything out. So Appalachian folk magic in particular, is a very rich tradition in terms of what is best to plant and when to plant it and how to plant it.
AMANDA: Let's go.
JULIA: So, for example, it is believed that you'll have a better harvest from your fruit tree, if you pound a rusty nail into the Northern side of those fruit trees.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Now this is a practical thing as well as a folk tradition thing, because iron is necessary for healthy plant growth. So for example, if you were looking at one of your plants and you're like, oh, the leaves are starting to yellow, but the veins are still green, what's going on with that? There might be a deficiency of iron in either your soil or your plants, and now the plants are struggling to absorb the iron from the soil.
AMANDA: Right on.
JULIA: Now an iron nail, particularly a rusty iron nail in your tree, might help, but also a quicker, more practical way of doing that is throwing a few rusty nails into your watering can, because that is going to increase the ability of your plants to absorb that excess iron from the water.
AMANDA: Without, presumably, introducing a potential site of infection to the tree's trunk.
JULIA: Exactly. You also can do it like not in the trunk, I think also in the ground is acceptable.
AMANDA: Oh, cool.
JULIA: So that way the nutrients are going into where the roots have access without ironing nails into your tree itself.
AMANDA: Yeah. I mean, it's fertilization, right? It's soil amendment. It's the science of what nutrients the plants need.
JULIA: Soil amendment, baby, that's so important. Alright. Appalachian tradition also has a couple of other planting superstitions. For example, if you like your peppers particularly spicy, you want to wait to plant them until you're really mad about something.
AMANDA: Okay, let's go.
JULIA: So that the heat from your anger transfers into those peppers.
AMANDA: You know what, I—I can think of few, few things I'd rather do when I'm really angry, than plant.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: That sounds great again.
JULIA: Amanda, if we go back to that Japanese study, it is reducing your blood pressure by planting, you're— you're taking care of your body and your soul by sticking your fingers into the ground there.
AMANDA: I'm literally going to touch grass, Julia. I'm touching the earth. I'm putting my hand in mother nature and being like, help me gain some perspective here, baby.
JULIA: Yeah, we joke about it. But hey, it does actually help. Another thing that Appalachian folk magic recommends if you want a particularly abundant crop of beans this year, Amanda.
AMANDA: And when don't I, Julia? I need those beans.
JULIA: There is a particular kind of person that you might want to recruit to help plant those beans. Who do you think it is?
AMANDA: Oh, is it a pregnant person?
JULIA: It is a pregnant person.
AMANDA: Hey. Okay.
JULIA: If you recruit your pregnant friend to help you plant your beans, they will flourish. It's something about, like, beans in a pod looking kind of like a pregnant belly.
AMANDA: I mean, yeah, the— fair.
JULIA: Yeah, there— you two peas in a pod. One is you and one's the baby that's in there.
AMANDA: One or more, who knows?
JULIA: Who knows? Who knows?
AMANDA: It's possible to say, Julia. Did I watch the pit all weekend? I sure did. Not possible to say.
JULIA: Yes. Amanda, watch the pit.
AMANDA: Everybody who works in the pit needs to garden more, I'd say.
JULIA: Yes, yes. I would agree with that statement for sure. There are also quite a few planting and gardening traditions that come out of South Carolina's Low Country, where the rich Gullah heritage of a lot of the people there actually shapes their gardening superstitions, which I think is very interesting. Now, there are a lot of these gardening superstitions which revolve around, particularly menstruating, which I think is actually pretty legit, because sometimes the last thing that I personally want to do when I'm on my period is labor.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Even if it is something that I love, like gardening.
AMANDA: Very true. And again, you know, need a rest sometimes. And also, you know, menstruation, lunar cycle, various things that happen in—in regularity for a lot of us. And so being like, oh, right, I should take a week off, because this is the reminder. Whether it's the full moon or, you know, menstruating, or just looking at your phone app and being like, I should cultivate instead of plant this week just a good habit to get into.
JULIA: I agree. Also, cramps suck.
AMANDA: Also, cramps suck.
JULIA: Controversial opinion, cramps suck. But low country gardening says that if you are on your period, you shouldn't be harvesting okra, because this might impact the produce when it is being preserved.
AMANDA: Huh.
JULIA: Similarly, you don't want to do any canning or pickling when you're on your period, because it won't gain the desired crunch.
AMANDA: Fascinating.
JULIA: Yeah, interesting.
AMANDA: Fascinating.
JULIA: Also, from the same Gullah traditions is, if you're not looking to have kids anytime soon, planting mustard or collard greens by your bedroom window will help prevent conception.
AMANDA: Great, and sounds delicious. I want to grow my mustard greens this year.
JULIA: There you go. There you go, Amanda, a little collards out—outside the window, on the fire escape. There you go. You're set.
AMANDA: I'm set.
JULIA: There is also an interesting superstition about gifting plants to someone. Now, I think this is originally an Appalachian one as well, but I have seen it in several other places, so it might have spread. If someone is to gift you a plant, you should never thank them for it.
AMANDA: Oh. What do you do instead?
JULIA: You can thank them for the pot, you can thank them for the thoughtfulness, but you should never mention the plant itself.
AMANDA: Okay. Will, the plant gets shy and not grow?
JULIA: Well, see what you're trying to do, Amanda, is you're trying to trick the plant, because another superstition says that if you steal a plant from someone, it will grow like crazy, like a sort of Tell Tale Heart style.
AMANDA: Ohh.
JULIA: Reminding you of your guilt as it grows bigger and bigger.
AMANDA: Now, Julia, what does the wisdom have to say about—I'll say, liberating cuttings from Home Depot.
JULIA: They're gonna grow great.
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: I would say they're gonna grow great.
AMANDA: And then I'll say, thank you.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Love you. You were on the floor, and now you're in my house.
JULIA: You could say it to the plant. You say thank you for joining me plant.
AMANDA: I say it.
JULIA: You just don't want to thank the person gifting it to you.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: So I love this, because it's by not thanking someone for the plant, you're essentially playing a trick on the plant into thinking that it was stolen so that it will grow bigger.
AMANDA: I love this. It's very a play, right? It feels like we're in a play and just like talking around something in the room, which I'm a huge fan of. I'm curious, Julia, how do you feel about giving and receiving house plants or even garden plants as gifts? Because part of me is very excited. I'm always excited to receive a plant. Shout out to those out there who brought me plants at live shows, thank you. But also, when I give them, I feel a little bit self conscious that the recipient will feel burdened. So I'll typically ask for affirmative consent when giving a plant. To say, like, happy house warming, would love to bring you a plant. Absolutely no pressure if not, but like, let me know either way.
JULIA: Yeah. I think that would be—I would check in with someone before I gifted them a plant. Like, if we had a conversation about, oh, I've been trying to grow house plants, and I just like, you know, I can't find this particular plant, like, then I would gift that. Or, for example, I just went to go visit a friend of mine who just bought a house, and we were talking— we were outside talking about her garden. I was like, okay, I know exactly what I'm gonna bring you next time I see you, because I know that you are now looking for plants, and you're— you won't be burdened by the plants that I'm going to bring you.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: Like, if it's come up in conversation, absolutely I will gift a plant. I wouldn't just like, go to someone's house and be like, and here's a plant for you.
AMANDA: Right. Which I definitely could, but have tried not to do. And now, going forward, I'll be like, you know what, I am just so charmed that we are ignoring the elephant vine in the room and just saying, cute pot. Thanks, bud.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. Or you could just be like, general being like, oh my god. It looks so cute.
AMANDA: Right? What a thoughtful gift.
JULIA: Yeah. Just— just watch your pronouns and don't use the proper nouns for the plants.
AMANDA: Love it.
JULIA: Now, a lot of planting your garden is about planting at the right time. Amanda, right? Like you have to make sure that the soil temperature is the right thing. Like a lot of seeds nowadays, come with instructions about what temperature the soil should be at when you plant the seed outside, or how many weeks before the frost date should you start your seedlings before you transplant them in the garden, right?
AMANDA: Exactly. And one of the the most humbling and valuable lessons of gardening for me is I cannot make peppers grow on my you know, somewhat Sunny, but not full sun, fire escape. No matter how much I want a cucumber in March, it's not gonna be good till June. And just going with the rhythm of what the plant needs, and realizing that it might not be a failure of me, but it is just the situation. And so let's figure out the plant for the place is just overall, like good Zen wisdom.
JULIA: Is there a particular type of pepper you want? Because I'm going to grow peppers this year, you're more than welcome to some peppers.
AMANDA: Thank you. I'm very interested in blistered shishito peppers, [18:51] my favorites.
JULIA: Okay. I'll look for some shishitos, you got it. Now, Amanda, knowing when the right time to plant a plant is obviously very important. But sometimes the old wives tales and the folk traditions of the past are better indicators of when to plant than like sticking a thermometer in the soil to make sure that it's just right, right?
AMANDA: Merch idea, old wife's tail teller.
JULIA: Ooh, I do like that.
AMANDA: Could be a good baseball hat, could be a good tank top for our gardening. We'll see.
JULIA: Amanda a little baseball hat. Yes. Actually, I love that. Alright, stuff like, and I got a lot of these from Appalachian folk tales and old wives tales. So your mileage will vary, but they'll say stuff like, plant your lettuce and your peas when the first leaves appear on the lilac bush.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: Plant your squash and your beans when the lilac blooms. Plant your corn when the apple blossoms fall.
AMANDA: And I mean, such a useful way to make sure that this is happening in pace with your environment, because some years—
JULIA: Exactly.
AMANDA: —they may be a little bit too late or a little bit early.
JULIA: Exactly, exactly. Like we have a particular day that we call our frost date. But every once in a while, it'll go before that or after that. And you just don't know, so you have to kind of base it off of the other plants in the area. My particular favorite from this one is plant corn. When oak leaves are the size of a squirrel slash mouse's ear.
AMANDA: Squirrels and mice are very different sizes.
JULIA: They're like that big, I guess? You know?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Like a— like, a dime size, perhaps?
AMANDA: You know, these tales probably predate consistent currency in the US, so.
JULIA: That's true. Fair. Now, obviously these suggestions of when to plant depend on the region that you're in, but I'm sure that many areas have some sort of folk tradition like this. So if you've got one from your region that you really like, please let me know, I want to hear them. I want to collect them and use them for my own benefits. I also like this one, which is less about planning and more about wrapping up your garden for the season, which is—
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: —when the first cicada of summer sings, it'll be frost in six weeks.
AMANDA: Oh, oh, thank you, cicadas. I didn't realize you were here to help warn me, but great.
JULIA: Cicadas are like you got a month and a half.
AMANDA: I want to fuck, I'm about to die. You got six weeks. Get your crops in there, baby.
JULIA: Exactly, exactly. I love— I love cicada noises too. I know a lot of people get really annoyed with how loud they can be, but man, I just love a cicada call. I love finding those—those creepy little skeletons they leave behind. It's one of my favorite things.
AMANDA: That's why I love you, Julia. You always have.
JULIA: I was a creepy kid. What can I say? That's why I make this podcast.
AMANDA: What even creepy, you are bug kid.
JULIA: That's different. I was bug kid.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: I loved a roly poly. Alright, Amanda, growing various different plants in your garden can lead to all kinds of energy and luck. Plants have always kind of really captivated the imagination of people, right? And as such, they are steeped in a lot of superstition, and we know now that a lot of those superstitions do have a grain of scientific truth to them. But before we get into specific plants, who's lucky and who is unlucky, let's go grab our refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
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AMANDA: Hello folks, Amanda here. Welcome to the refill, where I would love to extend a super special welcome to Madeline King, possessor of an excellent name, but also our newest paying patron over at patreon.com/jointhepartypod, where you can get Julia and I just wrote up our very first monthly recommendation newsletter available to all paying patrons, where we tell you all about the games and books and TV shows and music and just stuff in our life that we are enjoying. Recently, I shared a tip that I have been using to make more friends as an adult. So hey, if you are anything like me, that's the thing that you could definitely use. So you have got to become a paying patron at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. And hey, we even have a seven day free trial now. So if you want to log on and be like, yeah, I'll see. I'll see. I want to check it out. Maybe I'll be in, you know, enjoying it. Maybe I'll stick around, maybe I won't. Totally. Try it out. Patreon.com/spiritspodcast. And thank you, as always, to our supporting producer level patrons whose support helps sustain this show, make it possible. Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Hannah, Jane, Lily, Matthew, Rikoelike, Scott, Wil and AE (Ah). And our legend level patrons, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Michael, Morgan H., Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. Now, folks, the Spirits merch store has been popping off recently. I don't have to tell you that we have had tons of exciting merch ideas and episodes recently with more to come, and we are working on some of those. But first we got to clear out some of what is left. So we are having sale on all of our stickers and buttons over on the Spirits merch store, spiritspodcast.com/merch, where you can also pick up the brand new ghost cat sticker and button that we made. I know y'all love buttons out there. I'm breaking out my denim jacket again for the spring. I'm in my button and my pin era. And hey, buttons super affordable, affordable for us to make, affordable for you to buy. And I'm so excited to bring you more buttons than ever this year, alright? Check it out spirits podcast.com/merch. There is always something new and exciting and educational and awe inspiring coming out from Multitude every dang week. And if you have not yet checked out Pale Blue Pod, you gotta okay? This is an astronomy podcast for people who are overwhelmed by the universe but want to be its friend. Where astrophysicist Dr Moiya McTier and a new guest each week demystify space one topic at a time. You'll learn about things like black holes, but also the instruments and telescopes that we use in order to learn about space. Dr McTier went to NASA, the Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland earlier this year. And hey is bringing you an episode from NASA very soon. So cool. So check out Pale Blue Pod in your podcast app now. New episodes every Monday, wherever you listen. 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ASHLEY FLOWER: Some mysteries can be solved by looking at the facts. But in some cases, answers lie in the unknown. I'm Ashley Flowers, and each week on my podcast, So Supernatural. We explore some of the world's most bizarre occurrences and unravel their possible explanations, no matter how strange. Because sometimes to get to the truth, you have to look beyond what we know to be reality. Listen to, So Supernatural now wherever you get your podcasts.
AMANDA: And now let's get back to the show.
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JULIA: Amanda, we are back. And for this cocktail, I wanted to make use of some of the crops that are going to be coming in out of our garden this season.
AMANDA: Wow. How local? How seasonal? How sustainable?
JULIA: Exactly. And so this cocktail is very versatile. So while this is the combo that I'm going to describe, which is my personal preferred combo, you can really kind of mix and match it to your own taste. This is called The Gardener. Very basic, very simple. It's basically going to be two ounces of an alcohol of your choice, some sort of citrus, an ounce of that. And then what we call the gardener's puree. It is going to be an herb and vegetable mix from your garden, right? So for example, the version that I like is sort of a Mexican inspired version of The Gardener, especially if you're growing like peppers, this is a great one for you. So basically, your puree is going to be 50% herb. In this case, I use cilantro. 25% vegetable, I use a poblano pepper. And then 25% another vegetable. In this case, I use ginger, because it kind of adds a little extra herbal spice to it.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: And then basically, you're going to take that amount that you make into your puree. You're going. Going to add an equal amount of simple syrup to that.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: And then you are going to basically, like, puree it all together, and then run it through a fine mesh strainer, and then that is going to be the puree that you add to the cocktail. And so in this case, I use mezcal, lime juice, and then an ounce of this puree. And this, again, super customizable, and you can make it the puree ahead of time and then freeze it to use during the winter.
AMANDA: So smart. I often am struggling with, like, preserving or using herbs in particular, because, you know, they just make so much more than I am used to using. And so I love this as a way to have, essentially, like a sweetened vegetable puree that you can put into an alcoholic drink. You can put it into Seltzer, pour it over ice, water down with some water or lemonade. Hmm, delish.
JULIA: I bet, like a gin, basil, tomato, cucumber, one might be fantastic.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: Basically, you just mix and match and try a bunch of different options, and I think it's gonna work out great for everyone, so.
AMANDA: I was thinking, yeah, like, maybe carrot and ginger with, like, an orange juice would be really good.
JULIA: Yeah. That would be really cute. I like that one a lot. Incredible.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Amanda, wonderful. A great way to use the vegetables in your garden. In particular, I'm always looking for ways to get rid of zucchini, because, God, zucchini plants yield a lot.
AMANDA: They sure do, sure do.
JULIA: Also, if you are running into a problem with herbs being too much in your garden, Amanda, chopping them up, adding them to olive oil and then freezing them into ice cubes is a great way to, like, use them throughout the winter in like, for example, stews and soups and pasta sauces and everything like that.
AMANDA: Incredible. Love it.
JULIA: Yeah, there you go. A little fun fact, a little tip from me, your friend, Julia.
AMANDA: Local witch.
JULIA: Local witch. Alright. Speaking of the plants you are growing in the garden, the first plant that I want to talk about is one that I love a whole lot, one that I always make sure to include in my garden. One because I find it very versatile, but also because it's a very hardy plant for my zone, and that is Rosemary.
AMANDA: Hey, love a Rosemary bush.
JULIA: I think I've talked a lot about Rosemary in our food superstitions, but I'm just going to talk about it more this episode, because I love them.
AMANDA: Let's go
JULIA: Alright, so it is a well loved plant. It has been well loved since Ancient Greece, if not earlier. Summed up pretty well by Roger Hackett, who is a Doctor of Divinity in 1607 quote, speaking of the powers of Rosemary, it overtoppeth all the flowers in the garden, boasting man's rule. It helpeth the brain, strengthen— strengtheneth the memory.
AMANDA: Oh, that's a hard one to say.
JULIA: And is very medicinable for the head.
AMANDA: I realize this is probably a translation situation, but my God, did I miss out on the era of Latin, informed English, which would have let me just add suffixes on suffixes, baby.
JULIA: Medicineable. Sure, why not?
AMANDA: Medicineable. Actually, Julia, not funny, but that's how L. Ron Hubbard writes.
JULIA: Oh, no. Yeah. Finally, another property of Rosemary is coma, it affects the heart.
AMANDA: Okay, for good or bad, who can say?
JULIA: So to that note, actually, in a lot of lol, it's not pagan, it's fine, true form. The Greeks believed that Rosemary was associated with the Goddess Aphrodite, again, because it was said to impact the heart. Greek scholars also believed that not only did it impact the heart, but it also strengthened the brain, as Hackett pointed out, and they would wear garland of Rosemary around their heads in order to boost their memory during examinations.
AMANDA: Also, just must be really soothing. Got some aromatherapy in there. He got some just like the lovely scent of Rosemary drifting over you, helping you get centered, get calm for your examinations. Also, people probably smelled a lot more back then, not gonna say worse, just more.
JULIA: Just more.
AMANDA: And so putting Rosemary on top of that, you know, can't hurt.
JULIA: Rosemary is my favorite scent.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: In the gosh darn world.
AMANDA: Sure is.
JULIA: So I would love that personally. I think that more students should go to school with Rosemary garlands on their heads?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And it would just also would help with the the teenage—
AMANDA: Funk.
JULIA: Yeah, the teenage funk. That's a good word for it.
AMANDA: I—I agree.
JULIA: Uh, Roman priests would later use Rosemary as an incense in religious ceremonies, also as a way of warding off evil spirits. And later in England, it was burned in the homes of those who died of illness as a way of purifying the space.
AMANDA: Not bad.
JULIA: Nowadays, Amanda it is still used to rid homes of negative energy and ward off evil spirits. That's why you'll hear that hanging bundles on your front door will help keep out those with. Poor intentions.
AMANDA: I love it. And as with most of these superstitions, I say, why not?
JULIA: Why not?
AMANDA: Why not try it?
JULIA: Amanda, also from a practical standpoint, and talking about our garden, planting Rosemary near your garden entrance or your front door will similarly keep away pests, both metaphorical and literal.
AMANDA: I love it. The pests don't love the big, strong smell, and so they're going to run away.
JULIA: Exactly, exactly. And I'm pretty sure, if deer is an issue for your garden where you live, I'm pretty sure that Rosemary is also a somewhat deer repellent. Now, deer will eat anything if they're hungry enough, however, if they are a little bit on the pickier side where you live, a little Rosemary will probably help.
AMANDA: Love it. And It'll smell so good.
JULIA: Yeah. Now, Amanda, I am a fan of not only edible and medicinal herbs in your garden, but also flowers as well.
AMANDA: Oh, we gotta get those pollinators fed. Gotta bring them in, they say, yum, yum.
JULIA: Exactly. You know, if you don't attract the pollinators, your garden is gonna suffer. That is just a fact about gardening. That is not a superstition, it is a fact. Now, by the time this episode is out, my daffodils will probably be done for the season, but there is something about those, like bright, sunny flowers appearing as the first real spring plant in my garden. That makes me extremely happy. They are said to herald the spring equinox, and as a spring flower, they are associated with things like love and fertility. But Amanda, do you know what the Greek name for a daffodil is?
AMANDA: I have no idea.
JULIA: Amanda, it's a Narcissus.
AMANDA: Oh, because they dip to look at themselves?
JULIA: Yes. So the legendary beautiful man from Greek mythology, who is said to be so beautiful that when he saw his reflection in the water, he wasted away staring at his own beauty and was transformed into, you guessed it, the Narcissus flower is the daffodil.
AMANDA: Wow. I didn't know.
JULIA: Doesn't that make it seem so much fancier. Like, in my mind, like, I love a daffodil, but I also think that they're kind of like, some people consider them basic bitch flowers, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah, they're—they're inexpensive to buy if you're buying cut flowers, and also they, like, do very well, at least in the environment where we grew up. So I'm just like, oh, yeah, daffodil, whatever. All over the place.
JULIA: But they're named after a Greek Mythology thing, and I think that adds a little like flavor to it that I did not anticipate loving as much as I did.
AMANDA: That's amazing. It's not at all the flower I would cast as the one for Narcissus. But again, maybe in ancient Greece, or in like, the Mediterranean Basin, they don't grow like that.
JULIA: Yeah, no. I think it is just like a beautiful flower. And they were like, yeah, that one, that's nice. You know [37:48]
AMANDA: [37:49] Yeah.
JULIA: Now, despite their sad mythological origins, because he does, you know, kind of waste away and or drown—
AMANDA: Famously. Yeah.
JULIA: They are considered particularly lucky flowers. Tradition says that if you make a deliberate effort not to step on them when you're walking through a field in which they grow, you will be favored with abundance.
AMANDA: Cool. And also just a nice attitude. Be careful. Don't—don't try it on the flowers.
JULIA: Exactly. Exactly. And as you pointed out, Amanda, they make great gifts. You know, cutting some daffodils, and giving them to someone is an excellent gift. However, you do have to be careful to give a bunch of daffodils rather than an individual, because a single Daffodil only invites ill fortune rather than good.
AMANDA: Oh, no. I mean that—yeah, that'd be pretty skimpy. I guess a single rose is what I think of when you're giving a single flower. But you gotta bunch up the floors for them to have sort of maximum impact.
JULIA: Exactly. And also, if they are flowers of abundance, you have to give them in abundance, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah. I know. I'm not seeing like, the single hyacinth or a single crocus, like they always have some— some buds around.
JULIA: Yeah. And it's because their bulbs split as they grow. So they actually do naturally spread out more, rather than just being like, I'm the single bulb and I'm just gonna stay here forever and only do one flower every year.
AMANDA: Love it.
JULIA: Now, I really like this Welsh belief Amanda, which is that if you are the first person in your neighborhood to see the first Daffodil of Spring, it means that you're going to see more gold than silver in your household this coming year.
AMANDA: Okay. Let's go.
JULIA: Isn't that sweet? I like that one [39:25].
AMANDA: It reminds me of as a kid, I always thought it was so magical to see the street lights turn on, you know, or something like that. Seeing the clock roll over, obviously, the first word you say on New Year's like, there are all kinds of ways in which the first of a year or a season has some special importance. And I think it's a lovely thing to cultivate more awareness and keeping an eye out in the world and feeling like, oh my god, like, am I the first person to see this flower this Spring? My gosh.
JULIA: Yeah. No. I really love that. I also think that it's very funny, because, again, Christians can't leave anything alone, you know? So they said, no, no, it can't be from Greek Mythology that Pagan nonsense. It has to mean something religious for Christianity. So this is a quote from Anthony C.Dweck from his paper, The Folklore of the Narcissus.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: Quote. The occurrence of wild daffodils is sometimes said to indicate the former site of a religious foundation. At friddle stoke near Torrington Devon. It was recorded in 1797 that the people of the village called daffodils by the name Gregorys. Aname that coincided with the order of a neighboring monastery, The cannons of St. Gregory.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: In both Hampshire and the Isle of Wight, it is said generally that wild daffodils indicate the site of a monastery. St Jurian's copse is well known for its primroses and daffodils. There is a tradition that daffodils grow in profusion on one side of a track running through the copse, because a religious building once stood there. Now I really think that is— it's very interesting, because there are just kind of, sometimes, if you go out into the wild, you're like, this is a pack of like, 10 daffodils there, that makes no sense. Where did those come from?
AMANDA: Is that, because of the tuber thing you mentioned, where, like, the bulbs will split, and so every single year, the ones that stay will come up again the next year, and it grows and grows, but they can't, like, hop the road over to that side?
JULIA: Right. And also, it is very interesting, because they'll just pop up in random places, because things like squirrels and rabbits and stuff will eat the bulbs and or, like, take them, unearth them, and then bury them somewhere else to eat later, and then forget about them, and then all of a sudden, you have like, a field of 12 daffodils. So you're like, where did those come from? There's no reason they should be here.
AMANDA: So cool.
JULIA: There is one particular legend in Christianity regarding daffodils. And I guess this kind of makes sense, that they were like, lol, it's not pagan, it's fine.
AMANDA: Uh-huh.
JULIA: It was said that on the night of the Last Supper, a daffodil appeared in the garden to comfort Jesus when he found out that he had been betrayed by Judas.
AMANDA: I think Jesus' whole thing is he doesn't particularly need comforting. It's more like I kind of know what to do and you're all fucking up, but fair.
JULIA: I think it depends on which book you reading, which apostles book.
AMANDA: You know, Julia, not my, not my series, so.
JULIA: Yeah, Jesus [42:22]. And the other ones are like, he cried. He cried a long time. He cried out on the cross.
AMANDA: Well, if I got a single daffodil, I'd be like, this is comforting, but you couldn't spring for two?
JULIA: There you go. That's why, no abundance for Jesus, I guess.
AMANDA: Nope.
JULIA: Now, Amanda, sometimes it feels like some plants just don't want to grow, right? And of course, because of this, we have some superstitions around those particular plants. Now, for example, parsley.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Now it is considered by a lot of gardeners a difficult herb to grow, despite its like abundance in a lot of cuisine we see today, right?
AMANDA: Yes. Especially growing up in a majority Italian American town, you got those green leaves sprinkled on pretty much everything, anytime you go out to eat. I would say I love a bitter herb. In certain cases, I had an incredible parsley tonic once, but parsley as like a flavor in a dish. Most of the time you can miss me with that. I'm not gonna—I'm not gonna yearn for it when it's gone. So the fact that, like, if it grew like gangbusters, I'd be like, Alright, we got partially, let's use it, but that's not the case.
JULIA: Yeah, it—you know, it also doesn't add a ton of taste to things, it just kind of adds, like, here's a plate of red sauce and a leafy green on top.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: Now, because it is so difficult to grow, a tradition began that you always sow three parsley seeds together. Not because of the Trinity. This is not a Catholic thing.
AMANDA: I mean, you do often multi so to because some seeds will germinate, some won't, no matter what you do. But three specifically?
JULIA: Yes. Three specifically. I was gonna say it's not a Catholic thing, but the reason you sow three seeds is two are for the devil and one's for the gardener.
AMANDA: Come on, Julia, false, false. It's gotta be the Trinity. Come on, I went to Catholic school.
JULIA: It's not. It's not. So it was said that any parsley seeds that didn't grow, they didn't grow because they were pulled down to hell itself.
AMANDA: Oh my.
JULIA: Now, I think it does kind of make some sense, because, like, those seeds are very small, so if you planted them and they didn't sprout, you wouldn't be able to find them again, right?
AMANDA: No. I mean, everything in the soil is always just like, on its way to decomposition. And so, like, that's what brings new life to the energy and earth, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, I mean, if by hell, you mean the worms in the soil what make good compost?
JULIA: Yeah. No. So, nowadays we know that parsley isn't just like growing abundant in the underworld, it's just that their seeds are very slow to germinate.
AMANDA: You know, that is a very funny image of all the seeds that have failed to thrive. All the seeds I've Loved Before Julia are, in fact, thriving and hell. And so for me, it's lots and lots of parsley. Many mint plants, mints will get fungus gnats like none other when they're potted. And probably the, you know, the skeletons of various tomatoes that fail to thrive.
JULIA: Yeah. But in reality, no demonic foul play involved.
AMANDA: That you know of.
JULIA: Not that. [45:20]
AMANDA: Yeah, [45;21]. Okay.
JULIA: Another, in my opinion, under appreciated vegetable and herb is fennel.
AMANDA: Let's go, Julia. Rarely have you been so, right.
JULIA: Fennel is used for protection, mainly in a lot of folk traditions and witchcraft traditions. Now, much like Rosemary, you could hang it in your doorway to prevent evil or bad energy from entering your home. I think fennel is a pretty big vegetable, I guess?
AMANDA: It is. Yeah.
JULIA: It seems like a bit of an imposition to hang it from my door. So what you can do, instead of using the fully grown plant, is you can use fennel seeds instead. Now, particularly placing fennel seeds in keyholes and other small openings actually ward off evil spirits that might otherwise try to sneak in.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: It's also just a great plant to grow in general because it is super high in vitamin C and Beta Carotene. So those are things that like help your immune system stay strong and healthy. And particularly, you know, good for transitioning into summer to fall and fall to winter, so.
AMANDA: Every part of it is interesting to use and delicious if you rock with, like, a little bit of the licorice taste like it can take some getting used to, but it is so good. And especially Julia again, for the— for the non Allium babes out there, fennel can be a really useful thing to sort of saute, as you would an onion. To get some, like, building up a flavor, and some of that, like, really nice, like, pan fried, sauteed onion taste.
JULIA: Yeah, it does kind of have that same texture as onion when you cook it, too. So I—I feel you. When I make my potato Groton for Thanksgiving. It is a onion fennel, potato Groton. So—
AMANDA: Yum, yum.
JULIA: If you wanted to be Amanda safe, you could just sub out the onion and there you go.
AMANDA: Yum.
JULIA: Now there are certain plants, obviously, that are lucky to plant in your garden, but there are plants Amanda that are considered unlucky to grow or to pick.
AMANDA: Oh no.
JULIA: For example, though it is considered in some places to be a weed, there is a superstition that you should never try to pick Queen Anne's Lace, aka the wild carrot.
AMANDA: Queen Anne's Lace is beautiful. Pollinators love it. I mean, yeah, I get why it's, you know, not necessarily good to reduce the number, but is there like a logic behind that?
JULIA: Yes, a little bit of backstory how it got that name. Named after Queen Anne of Denmark, who was the wife of King James the First. The folkloric name behind it comes from a tale where her friends basically were like, you're so good at making lace, you should make a lace that's as beautiful as the white flowers of this plant. And she was like, okay, I'll do that. And so she did. But while she was doing it, she pricked her finger, and it left a drop of blood in the center of the lace, which is reflected in that sort of rosy red center of the white flowers of the plant.
AMANDA: Julia, that's on me. I got my mythologies mixed up. And I was like, and then Aphrodite smite her.
JULIA: Yeah, no, that didn't happen. She just got a cool plant named after her.
AMANDA: I mean, right on.
JULIA: Now, it is an interesting plant. A lot of foragers and stuff really like it. It can be harvested and eaten like a carrot would, at least in the first year that it grows.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: After that, it kind of gets too woody to be enjoyable to eat. However, you also might not want to do that, because another name for Queen Anne's Lace is stepmother's blessing.
AMANDA: Fuck. I was going to say, murder your husband plant.
JULIA: It said that picking Queen Anne's lace can result in the death of your mother.
AMANDA: So depending on your situation, a thing to keep in mind.
JULIA: Listen, I wouldn't pick it.
AMANDA: I wouldn't pick it.
JULIA: I wouldn't pick it.
AMANDA: I wouldn't pick it. But you know, there you go.
JULIA: For some people.
AMANDA: Who can say?
JULIA: Now there are two other practical reasons that you might not want to pick this plant, Amanda. Besides the— the stepmother's blessing part as well. First, is that the leaves are considered toxic and can cause allergic reactions to the skin if you touch it, especially if you have naturally sensitive skin.
AMANDA: You know I do.
JULIA: Yes. So don't, don't touch it, Amanda.
AMANDA: Okay. Okay. No touch.
JULIA: Use gloves, if touch.
AMANDA: I'll look, and then I'll put on my little gloves and go, thank you, thank you, and then not pick.
JULIA: Yes. And now, another reason that Queen Anne's lace probably shouldn't be touched in general is that it resembles a lot of other plants, and particularly is often confused with Poison Hemlock, which could kill you.
AMANDA: Yep, don't do that. Eat smart, forage smart, don't die.
JULIA: Exactly. Exactly. Another unlucky plant to pick that you can grow in your garden and maybe you should, you know? This is just— we're talking about not picking plants here. Another unlucky plant to pick in your garden is foxglove.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Now this is a beautiful flower, so beautiful that it is said to be one of the favorites of the Fae.
AMANDA: Oh, sure.
JULIA: Yep.
AMANDA: If you have them in your garden, you say that's for the Fae baby, not for me.
JULIA: Exactly. So it said that fairies love to play inside of the flowers and the little like specks and speckles that you find on their petals are supposed to be the footsteps of fairies.
AMANDA: Adorable. Never cut it down if one pops up in a place where you were gonna plant something else. I'm sorry, darling, now it's foxgloves with carrots around it, or whatever.
JULIA: Exactly. So as a result, picking foxglove and bringing it inside is bad luck, because you're taking something that belongs to the Fae, and you will bring their ire on you if you remove it from them.
AMANDA: Imagine if you gifted somebody foxgloves that you picked, and it was like, you picked it, it's only one, and you give it to someone and you're like, acknowledge my plant gift. You'd be like, girl, are you trying to kill me right now? Like, that's a three layer curse.
JULIA: Are you mad at me? What did I do?
AMANDA: Like Julia, just tell me.
JULIA: Why are you so upset with me? Alright, Amanda, we're gonna really quickly do a couple of rapid fire ones that don't have as much deep lore to them. For example, cursing at your plants will help make them grow better.
AMANDA: You know, my high school basketball coach said the same, but I turned out to hate exercise. So I don't know if that's a great thing, but that's one technique.
JULIA: Yeah. Pick your berries Amanda, before the end of September, otherwise the devil will piss on any fruit that remains.
AMANDA: No, not devil piss.
JULIA: Not devil piss. Not devil piss.
AMANDA: I'm used to all kinds of other creature piss, but not devil piss.
JULIA: Not Devil's piss, it probably doesn't taste good.
AMANDA: No, it probably tastes like parsley.
JULIA: Or cilantro if you have that one disease.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Not disease, but the gene, you know what I mean. Threatening to cut down a tree for three years, encourages it to bear more fruit.
AMANDA: This is great. Julia, I'm fully on board with this one. Where you're like, you—what do you do for me tree, you do fucking nothing. And then you can say that three years in a row.
JULIA: Three apples, you son of a bitch. I'm getting the saw right now.
AMANDA: Right. And then year four it's like, boom.
JULIA: Yeah, there you go, there you go. Encourage your thorny plants to grow into an arch. That includes any thorny berries, your roses, anything like that. When you pass under that arch, it will help heal any ailment.
AMANDA: I need this. This is a great idea. I've seen rose arches. I've seen loofah plant arches, which grow the things that you can use as sponges.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: I would love nothing more than to grow like a blueberry arch and then just stand under it with my mouth open and just wait for the blueberries to drop.
JULIA: Hell yeah. I love that. And of course, Amanda, if you keep bees, you have to share any news or gossip with them.
AMANDA: Gotta tell the bees.
JULIA: I would love to do a full episode on that, if possible. I don't know if it has enough information to do a full episode on it, but I do love the folklore around the bees and telling them about the news of the household.
AMANDA: Yeah. I think we might be able to find a telling the bees, or bee witchcraft, horticulture, keeping historian, because, you know, I'm all about it.
JULIA: It's got to be something.
AMANDA: I'm so into it.
JULIA: It's gotta be something. Alright. Now, there is some advice to give you about gardening that is not superstition, it is just fact. These are just good gardening tips. For example, you need to make sure that you are growing the right plants for your zone, and you can always look up what your growing zone is. Amanda, do you have one?
AMANDA: Grow what you like to eat, because you may think that, like your garden is supposed to have, you know, A, B, C or D, but ultimately, what if you grow something and then you can enjoy the fruits of your labor, that's the best thing.
JULIA: Exactly. Also have a plan before starting your garden. I know I made a joke about that earlier, but you don't want to, like, accidentally overcrowd your beds, or, in Amanda's case, you know, you want to make sure that you are growing things you actually want to eat, and you're not going to just gift them to your friends later. And being like, do you like zucchinis, because I have five pounds of zucchini for you.
AMANDA: I will accept up to two pounds of zucchini from anybody at any given time, by the way. That's the amount I can process and eat.
JULIA: Excellent. Good. I'll keep that in mind for this summer.
AMANDA: And finally, don't forget flowers, they're great. There are so many different like co-planting flowers. You can plant marigolds with tomatoes to help discourage certain kinds of common tomato pests. And it's just nice you bring the pollinators in. It's nice to look at. Get some pops of color in there, different elevations, so don't neglect your flowers, y'all.
JULIA: Yeah. Shout out to zinnias, they're my favorite pollinator plant to grow in my garden area.
AMANDA: They're very, very good. People in my age bracket and above were very into dahlias for the last few years, and so I got some on clearance at the end of the season last year, popped them in a grow bag, and we'll see what comes out.
JULIA: Hell yeah. I think that buttercups are becoming more fashionable now, which is wild.
AMANDA: Huge.
JULIA: Yeah, they're talking about like—or they're using the scientific name for it, which I cannot pronounce. But I looked it up, I'm like, oh, those are just buttercups. Okay, sure, why not?
AMANDA: I mean, as a kid, my fave was honeysuckle, because you'd be able to, you know, eat that, honey. Oh, ranunculus.
JULIA: Yeah, that's it.
AMANDA: I didn't know that was also just a buttercup?
JULIA: Listen, we're finding things out about daffodils, interesting names. We're talking about buttercups now, look at that.
AMANDA: Julia, what if my new pet name for you was Ranunculus?
JULIA: I feel like you're— I feel like it's that TV show, like redonkulous, or whatever the fuck it is.
AMANDA: Ridiculous?
JULIA: That's what it feels like.
AMANDA: That show is just called ridiculous, that's all it's called.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. Redonkulous makes me think of— or rather—
AMANDA: Renunkulous.
JULIA: Renunkulous makes me think of Redonkulous.
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: And then I would think that you're making fun of me.
AMANDA: Okay. Well, in that case, that's not acceptable. If I was ever making fun of you, Julia, I'd bring you a single fox club and you say, Amanda, what the fuck.
JULIA: Well if you're thinking about cursing your friends.
AMANDA: Which I would never.
JULIA: Summer season, no? Not at all, not at all.
AMANDA: Never at all, never not one. Remember—
JULIA: Stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
JULIA: Later, satyrs.