Episode 336: Your Urban Legends LXXVIII (with Janet Varney)
/We hear about Amanda’s bathroom ghost, how all science laboratories are haunted, and cars are just horses and that’s why it works better for some people compared to others.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of heart attacks, death, implied child death, clowns, body horror, and child endangerment.
Guest
Janet Varney is an Emmy-Nominated actor, comedian, writer and producer. Her podcast on the Max Fun network, The JV Club with Janet Varney, has been going since 2012 and features almost 400 interviews with celebrities about their awkward teenage years.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends volunteering at a local garden!
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out the MultiCrew!
Sponsors
- BetterHelp is an online therapy service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits
- Unthinkable with Jay Acunzo, available in your podcast app now or at jayacunzo.com/unthinkable-podcast
- Calm is the #1 app to help you reduce your anxiety and stress and help you sleep better. Get 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at calm.com/spirits.
Find Us Online
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests’ books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And this is Janet Varney. Janet, you're a podcaster—
JANET: Hello!
AMANDA: —actor, comedian extraordinaire. And you're here to think and talk about some spooky stories. Thank you for joining us.
JANET: I'm so into it. I can't wait. Thanks for having me and I can't wait to find out what we're gonna get up to this episode.
JULIA: It is our pleasure and delight to have you here. I always like to ask when we have guests on for the urban legends episodes. Did you have a hometown urban legend in your town growing up?
JANET: That's a great question. I—you know, the main one that was—was very key for me as a young person was my fourth through sixth-grade school was—was a magnet school. It was a bilingual school and it was in the beautiful Tucson, Arizona Barrio. And there were a lot of rumors about wha—you know, what the school used to be. Like people would say that it used to be a hospital without ever getting into like any more detail. Like there was never mo—you know, it wasn't—it wasn't like, you know, a mental health hospital. It wasn't like a, you know, young mothers' hostel. It was just a sort of general like it was a hospital. And —and they used to say that you could hear people crying when you flush the toilets in a certain girl's room.
AMANDA: Ohhh.
JULIA: Hold on, Amanda has a story related to that. Go on.
AMANDA: Uh-huh. So in the bathroom at our office right now, there—it's not every flush, but it's maybe every 5 to 10 flushes. Because if it were consistent, I could get used to it and rationalize it away. But no, no, it is a unpredictable number of times. There is what sound simply like a person screaming every time you flush a toilet.
JANET: Oh, no.
AMANDA: So maybe the gho— that ghost came from Tucson to New York for retirement? Usually, goes the other way?
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: It could be La Llorona that came up as well.
AMANDA: Yes, sir.
JANET: Like it was maybe a child crying for some reason. It was maybe like La Llorona, like no one really knew, you know. Now as an adult, I'm like, God that was such a beautiful building. Like I wish I would have appreciated how special it was then, but instead, I just fell into being afraid like every other child.
JULIA: Yep, yep. That checks out. I also feel like when you tell a child a story about a place oftentimes they just accept that.
JANET: Yeah.
JULIA: So the fact that they were like this is a hospital, and you were just like that sound true.
JANET: Got it. Got it.
JULIA: Cool. Let's move on.
JANET: Did not ever hear that from an adult figure in my life, but understood. A child told me, must be true.
JULIA: No further questions your honor.
JANET: Exactly.
AMANDA: That's Incredible. Were there any shenanigans that you and your friends got up to at sleepovers, or when hanging out in like spooky situations that you weren't supposed to be in? For Julia and me, a big one was Bloody Mary enchanting into the mirror.
JANET: Ohh, definitely Blood Mary. Definitely Bloody Mary.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JANET: Bloody Mary for sure like light as a feather, stiff as a board like trying to let—
AMANDA: Oh yeah.
JANET: —people up. Ouija boards. I mean I was very into I—I would say was a phase, but it was— it sort of continues to be a lifelong fascination and hope like we're always ready, ready to be haunted. Welcoming it in. Assuming that I will somehow have a delightful connection with the spirit instead of it being a scary situation, like somehow we'll be able to help them find peace.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JANET: And yet I've never— I really haven't had you know. Anything I've tried to come up with that would be like, no, no, I think maybe one time, like you know, it's the— I don't really have anything significant. Otherwise, I would be able to just like come up with you know. Here's the story I always tell instead and I’m like, I don't know, one time a cool breeze. I was hoping you know.
JULIA: But luckily, a lot of our listeners have some paranormal experience—
JANET: Wonderful.
JULIA: And stories that they have to tell. So why don't we get into it? Amanda, would you like to start or should I start?
AMANDA: Julia, I would love to start because my first email today is all about a ghost haunting a school.
JANET: So ex—
JULIA: Ohhh, ohh, ohhhh.
AMANDA: It couldn't more perfect. So this comes from listener Rosie she/her and the email is titled, The Janitor in a Red Flannel.
AMANDA: First of all, I already—
JULIA: Okay.
JANET: —love this because some people call the listeners of my JV club Podcast, janitors. So—
JULIA: Awww.
AMANDA: Aww.
JANET: — This is—this is getting real, and the sounds of scary and potentially evil but I'm still super onboard.
AMANDA: Very cool.
JULIA: Our listeners are conspirators. So I—I feel that—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —in my heart of hearts.
AMANDA: We did do a pretty sobering interview a couple of weeks ago with Colin Dickey who is writing a book or has written a book that is coming out soon, about like the Underbelly of Conspiracies in America Democracy. And I was like, I'm not gonna— I'm not gonna mention in this interview that our listeners are called conspirators.
JULIA: Script—scripts are bad.
AMANDA: It was fun. Off to Rosie's story. So Rosie writes, “I'm a longtime listener and big fan of the show. And I would like to share a story from my small town in Rural Illinois.”
JANET: Okay.
AMANDA: “I am a fifth-grade teacher who was not originally from our town, so I didn't grow up hearing these town legends. But during my first year of teaching, I decided to host a scary story writing contest in my classroom—
JANET: Love it.
AMANDA: —for Halloween.”
JANET: Love it. Simply love it.
JULIA: A lot of times when teachers tend to do something like this, we get some wicked stories that come out of like the elementary schools and the high school, so I'm very excited.
JANET: For sure. And shout out to you for being a teacher, you rad badass person.
JULIA: And it's a tough time to be a teacher right now, and we appreciate all the work that you're doing.
AMANDA: Rosie is demonstrating leadership and creative thinking because she says, “my goal in writing a story myself, which I needed to read to demonstrate to them what I wanted them to do, was to use a story to inspire my students to keep their areas cleaner. So I came up with a new old wives tale of a janitor named Tim.”
JULIA: Uh-oh.
AMANDA: “My story went. Once there was a janitor at our school named Tim. He loved our school so much. He was a very dedicated janitor and he would clean the classrooms top to bottom every day. Then one day, Tim had a heart attack during his lunch break and unfortunately died.”
JULIA: Ve— very dark for fifth grade.
JANET: I know.
JULIA: It explained to a child what a heart attack is.
JANET: Yeah. At least Rosie acknowledges that it was unfortunate.
AMANDA: Yeah, right. “Some say he's here driven by his love for our school, came back to work anyway.” Again, [6:39] hell to me, current Amanda. “And continued his duty of keeping our classrooms in top shape. And it said that Tim haunts the classrooms of students who don't clean up after themselves and put gum under the table. So we must put in the effort to keep our learning space clean. “
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: “Now the story went over well with my students, and it did become a bit in our classroom. If a drawer open on its own or a paper fell off the wall without fail a student would shout, it's Tim!”
JANET: Okay.
JULIA: Okay.
JANET: So as paper falling off the wall I can accept, I'm already nervous about the drawer opening on its own. I don't know what's happening there. Rosie, that might be Tim.
JULIA: Yeah, it's a little concerning.
AMANDA: Yeah. Our school was built in the early 1950s like very— like to serve baby boomers, you know, like postwar. And so it was all just like heavy wood stuff, like those drawers never opened. And even if it was like a metal, you know, like art cabinet or like a teacher's desk, I think they kept that stuff locked up. Because there was like sharp and dangerous things in there.
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: Yeah.
JULIA: It was tough for a little child's arms try to pull those heavy wooden shelves out. It was— it was tough.
AMANDA: Yes. But folks, this—this story, like all good stories takes a turn, because Rosie continues. “This was all fun and games, of course until I was discussing school ghosts with a custodian one day.”
JULIA: Uh-oh.
AMANDA: “She explained that we do have a few school ghosts, but one of them, in particular, is spotted very frequently. He's a tall elderly man wearing a red flannel with a large jingling key ring. He likes to cause mischief and turn lights on and off and move things around, you know, typical spooky ghosts behavior. When I asked her what she called him, she looked me in the eyes and said, oh, his name was Tim.”
JANET: No, no,
JULIA: Oh, Jesus.
JANET: No.
AMANDA: “It turns out there actually was a janitor named Tim, who worked for our school in the 80s and did unexpectedly passed away. And every day—
JANET: No.
AMANDA: —he liked to wear the same red flannel.”
JANET: No.
AMANDA: Now Janet you say no. Does this delight you, or does this frighten you?
JANET: [laughs] I guess no. It's a pretty negative thing to keep uttering. There is so much story, and yet I did it. The no just means, oh my goodness. It's just my way of saying oh my goodness. My brain is trying it to solve the puzzle in all the logical ways it can. It's like no, Rosie, you heard someone talking about Tim, like in the back of a conversation, like in one of those Robert Altman movies where the real conversations happening behind you. But you don't think you're paying attention, but you're recording everything, and it's coming back out. But that—that may not be true at all. And maybe Tim was like, [whispers] oh, and make his name Tim. Go—go and write that down, T I M.
JULIA: Just whispering in her ear.
JANET: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah. Well, we love a logical explanation here on the show, especially for urban legends. So I appreciate that very much Janet, that you're coming from this.
JANET: Okay. Okay.
JULIA: Also we yell at our listeners for doing silly stuff all the time.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JULIA: So—
AMANDA: [9:20] they get it.
JULIA: —you saying no, is definitely not a bad thing because I scream no at them, a lot. No, no, no! Absolutely not.
AMANDA: Yeah, I do too.
JANET: Ohh, red flannel.
AMANDA: There are two more corroborating stories about high school and elementary school ghosts here. So one is in that same town in the high school, “Rosie's friend was on the basketball team when he was a student. And after a late night practice went to change one of the locker rooms. There are only a few people in the building at the time, including the janitors, his coach, the principal, and the teammates postgame. My friend said he was the last one in the locker room and all his friends were waiting outside for him. As he was getting dressed, he heard the jingling of keys on a key ring. He looked up and saw a janitor he'd never recognized before in a red flannel. The janitor apologized and said he thought the locker room was empty. So the janitor left my friend, finished putting his shoes on, and when he walked out of the locker rooms, asked his teammates if they'd seen anyone come out ahead of him. They told him no, that he was the only one.”
JULIA: Nope.
AMANDA: I love this just polite ghost, like oh, sorry, my bad.
JANET: It's all kindly janitors who can't let go of cleaning. It's amazing.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Again, as an adult, dystopian nightmare to keep working for no pay.
JANET: Yeah. Okay. So what are we saying that Tim is haunting multiple schools? Or we saying that— that there's something peculiar about janitors that make them more inclined towards haunting?
JULIA: So I think depending on how like big the school district is? If it's a particularly small school district, they could have a janitorial staff that services all of the schools, rather than just a single school.
JANET: Okay.
JULIA: So maybe the ghost of Tim is not exclusive to one school or another, but perhaps the whole spectrum of schools.
AMANDA: Yeah, he's not slacking off on his— his shifts here. But I just— I loved that idea that he was like, causing mischief. And then when he saw somebody's like, oh, my bad, and then walked away.
JULIA: Oops. Uh-oh.
JANET: I'm also enjoying the idea of this being truly corroborative.
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: Well, it's corroborated, it's corroborated guys.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: You need a red flannel what—what can I tell you?
JANET: Yeah.
AMANDA: I did in fact, wear a red flannel today, knowing I was starting this story.
JANET: Ohh, I was gonna ask.
JULIA: There you go.
JANET: I was gonna ask. Good choice.
AMANDA: Yes, I am committed to the bit and my work.
JANET: It would be cool if I were accidentally wearing one, we’ll be like [ghostly sound]
AMANDA: So the final story here has to do with the Attached Elementary School Julia. So more [11:40] theory.
JULIA: There you go.
AMANDA: Perhaps Rosie's school where she works, is attached to the high school. “So this story happened late after parent-teacher conferences one evening.”
JULIA: A haunted night already.
JANET: We had to have an evening after parent-teacher conference. We had to, it's a perfect opportunity for a story like this. I love it. Absolutely.
AMANDA: Imagine how late that day is for the teachers though. They're arriving between what, like 7 and 7:30 depending on the district. And then they have to stay till like 8, 9, 10 pm.
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: So late, that's a long day.
AMANDA: “This occurred around 8, as a colleague of mine stayed late to catch up on some grading. She told me the security lights outside her classroom kept turning on when its motion detector activated at night, even though there was nobody else working on her hallway at that time.”
JANET: Creepy.
JULIA: Hmm. Hmm.
AMANDA: “It kept happening. She walked outside to investigate and see if a parent was still in the building perhaps. She glanced into the gym to see if anyone was in there and saw a little bling cowboy boots running up and down the bleachers.”
JANET: Uh-oh, little child alert.
AMANDA: Little—little child, second ghost, second location, I know.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: “She turned her head to see if there were any parents around. But when she looked back, the boy had vanished. Other teachers too have reported hearing boot steps in the gym.” Never heard of a boot step as opposed to a footstep. But hey, It is what i— that's what it is.
JULIA: It's the cowboy boots, they're projecting, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: “And the security lights on that hallway, but only that hallway are often triggered in the school. Honestly, if I was a kid ghosts, I probably want to haunt the school too, because that's where kids make friends and have fun during the day. So it makes total sense for kid ghosts to want to be there. Kids are also by the way not allowed to run and play on the bleachers. So I imagine that's very tempting for a kid ghost.”
JULIA: Well, what's gonna happen too, Amanda? He's not gonna die. He's not gonna hurt himself.
AMANDA: It's perfect, Julia.
JANET: What's the worst that can happen?
JULIA: It's perfect.
AMANDA: And now what, he tempts other ghost children to also play with no physical risk. Wonderful.
JANET: The ghost janitor comes and waves his keys at them and says, don't do that.
JULIA: I also like how specific the area that the child ghost is kind of cordoned off to, as opposed to Tim, who's like all over the place. Just in different schools, hanging out in locker rooms, having a great time.
JANET: I mean, this is the thing. Rosie, I know you're speaking for your friend, I want to thank you for sharing your friend's story as well. Like, I'm always fascinated by people who have that specific of an experience, because I feel like that, you know, if you haven't had that experience, when I hear that I think my life would change forever. And I don't know ho— like wha—I guess it's fair to say if pressed, I don't know what I would do differently. But I feel like, I feel like that would be like proof of, well, first of all, it's proof of life after death. But it would be like if you found out that there was proof of aliens. Like you would feel compelled to stop whatever you were doing in your life and just do something different, just for the sole purpose of like, marking the moment that you found out that everything was different than maybe what you thought. You know what I mean?
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: I do.
JANET: But if you just go back to teaching, and you're just like, yeah, I fully saw a child in cowboy boots running around, who then vanished. I mean, I don't know. Like ar—do you feel different friend of Rosie?
JULIA: I hope you do.
JANET: Do you make different choices friend of Rosie, because you—you have now seen this ghost child, you know what I mean?
JULIA: I feel like the problem is that it raises more questions than it answers. And so now it's not like oh, I know what path I need to go down because I've seen a ghost. It's— now, it's like, what —what do I do with my life now that I've seen a ghost?
JANET: Yes!
JULIA: You know what I mean?
JANET: Yeah, I thought if there's no eas— it raises more questions. You're absolutely right. JULIA: Yeah, yeah.
AMANDA: But Janet, one question we can answer is, here on the show we have a real kind of ongoing debate between a scenario where let's say you're snuggled up in bed, it's the middle of the night, you wake up to a sudden noise. Is your instinct to investigate the noise or to roll over pretend it's all fine and go back to sleep hoping that noise resolves itself?
JANET: Great question. I think maybe, well, you know, it gets into like dog territory, because I have dogs. So it's very easy. It's very easy to ride off a sound?
AMANDA: Assuming you can like check like, oh, everything seems fine.
JANET: Yeah.
AMANDA: Like if the dogs with you or something.
JANET: I think I'm more inclined to stay in bed.
AMANDA: Alright.
JULIA: [15:48] until I see how it goes.
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: I think I am. But again, it's because I have a built-in excuse for what might be happening, which is a dog wandering around at night. And—and I guess I've —maybe perhaps have investigated that often enough to discover that it is in fact that. That—that I remain ignorant now.
JULIA: Alright.
JANET: If it's outside the house, if it's— if I can really tell it's outside. And I'm more inclined to get up, which is weird because I mean, I guess it's not weird because you have dogs, but like you would think that it would be more pressing to find out if something were even closer to you then outside of the walls of the house.
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: But apparently I'm fine as long as they've made it inside. Now, they're a member of the family. But if they're still outside, that warrants investigation.
JULIA: So if it's like, oh, the ghost is inside haunting the house—
JANET: Yeah.
JULIA: That's just— that's my new roommate now.
AMANDA: This is my life now.
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: Yeah. I'll accept it immediately.
JULIA: Alright. Cool. Cool. I like that.
AMANDA: Amazing. Good to know. Well, that —that was Rosie's email. Thank you so much, Rosie.
JULIA: Wonderful. Thank you, Rosie.
JANET: Rosie, great work. And we know—by the way, we know they make tiny sizes of cowboy boots. They're very cute. So we're not limited by the possibility of that. We —that's not called into question at all. Those are real cute little cowboy boots I've seen.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: Speaking of children's shoes, very quickly. So my mother-in-law is cleaning out a storage unit and has brought a couple of totes to store in our basement for the time being. And one of the things that she—
AMANDA: Hey Julia, Julia, that's never going to leave your house, I told you.
JULIA: Yeah, I know, I know. I know it's not, but it's fine.
AMANDA: As long as you know.
JANET: Quote-unquote, “temporarily”
JULIA: Temporarily until she gets rid of them. But [17:22]. So one of the bins I opened it up because she's like, I'm gonna like downsize them, so I can take some more bins home with me. I'm like great. Hopefully, you actually do that. And I opened up one of them, and she had my brother-in-law's like baby shoes brassed. Like, you know how they used to do like in the 60s, like just—I'm just like, it makes it seemed like he died as a child.
AMANDA: It really does.
JULIA: When you keep these, it makes it seem like he never got bigger than this and it's terrifying. It's like my least favorite thing in my basement. And I do have a trunk that I found locked in my attic from the previous owners in my basement as well. So like that saying something.
JANET: Has that been explored at all?
JULIA: Oh, yeah, famously, will retell the story for you, Janet, but we moved into a house. We bought it from the original owner's son after the original owners passed away. And he left like a lot of junk in here in areas that we didn't originally see. So my husband goes up into the attic to kind of check things out. He's a building inspector so like this is his thing. And so he's like, he has a bunch of weird stuff up here. Like there's old wooden skis and like half a surfboard. There's also like a trunk up here. And I was like, what? He's like, oh, yeah there's a trunk, it's locked though. I'm like, does it seem like there's sound like lifted up? Does it seem like there's something in it? He's like, no, it seems like it's empty. I'm like, well, yeah, Jake, because ghosts don't weigh anything. And eventually, we took it out of the attic. We attempted to open it, we actually did get it open. But we made sure we did it outside, because worst case scenario if we open it and a bunch of ghosts come out and they're not going to go—
JANET: Yeah.
JULIA: Back into the house. They can just like be released into the ether, so.
JANET: Yeah. Okay, but it was empty. It wasn't like full of feathers or something?
JULIA: No, it was empty. Except for I assumed the ghost that floated away when we opened it.
JANET: Yeah. You know what, you did that ghost a service. I feel like you're protected forevermore because they all talk to each other. And now you freed a ghost.
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: So best thing you could have done.
JULIA: I—I super hope so.
JANET: [laughs] Alright. Thanks for retelling that I appreciate it.
JULIA: Of course! No, my pleasure.
JANET: I would—I would have gone back into the [19:33] to explore that, but I'm glad I got a quick answer. And that was [19:37]
JULIA: It always fun one to retell.
JANET: Yeah, good joke. [laughs]
JULIA: Speaking of logical answers and stuff like that, Janet, a lot of our listeners despite being like a supernatural-themed podcast, are scientists. They— they love the show for some reason. People who like work in laboratories and stuff like that love Spirits.
JANET: Awesome.
JULIA: And so I have a email from Morgan she/her, which is titled Scientific Superstitions and Becoming a Conference Cryptid.
JANET: Ooh, okay. Conference Cryptid.
JULIA: Now, Morgan had written in a little while ago and with an episode that we did called hometown logical answers, which was basically urban legends that were solved and—
JANET: Love it.
JULIA: —through logical answers, which is great. But Morgan continues, “when I heard Episode 307, with a listener claiming to be a lab ghost, I knew I had to share some researcher lore with you all. I am a researcher currently working on my Ph.D. in neuroscience, and I've been in many labs at many universities over the years. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that scientists are some of the most superstitious people you'll ever meet.”
JANET: Wow.
JULIA: I know, right? "We like to think of ourselves as fully logical people. But all scientists have their own rituals and folklore traditions that they follow. Even if they don't identify it as such."
AMANDA: I guess like an athlete or an artist, you know, you—you have the thing that— that—
JULIA: Sure.
AMANDA: —seems like it works for you and—and you keep going. Janet, do you have any of those when you go to record or perform?
JANET: Great question. I don't think— I think— I don't know why I'm telling you every question you ask me is great, but—
JULIA: We appreciate it.
JANET: —but yeah. But—that almost sounds like when someone says to be perfectly honest, and that you immediately wonder if they're lying. I'm— I'm afraid that you think—
AMANDA: Oh, sure.
JANET: —I think its question was garbage, which I don't. I'm not that ritualistic. And when you're a theater kid, you do learn that you're supposed to be.
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: And I think part of that like sort of ongoing phase of being interested in that kind of stuff. But— but certainly being at that, like ripe adolescent girl age where it feels really important to be into like witchy stuff.
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: I think I started defying those superstitions on purpose, like as a sort of like, oh, come on. No, 13 is my lucky number. No, I will walk under this ladder. No, I will [21:55]. I mean, I wasn't breaking mirrors. But—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JANET: I think I was leaning on the side of like, would I have been the kid who was like, no, I will say, Macbeth, Macbeth, Macbeth—I might ha— I might have done that. But I was also concerned enough about how other people felt that I—I could see myself avoiding some of those. But like for personal ones. So I don't really have the sort of, you know, to make sure everything goes smoothly, I sort of find myself doing these things that aren't really directly connected to whatever you know, to actually making something go smoothly. So I'm very interested in all of this Morgan. I'm fascinated by the idea of scientists being superstitious. That's an incredibly beautiful concept to me.
JULIA: Yeah. Well, Morgan is here to provide some of her favorite myths and traditions that are universal among researchers.
JANET: Okay.
AMANDA: Ooohh.
JULIA: Starting with, of course, the lab ghost. So Morgan says “yes, I can confirm that every lab is haunted. I like to think of the lab ghost as a house spirit similar to a brownie. If you're nice to them, and they like you, they might watch over your experiments and help you find your favorite pen when it inevitably goes missing. But if you offend them for whatever reason, they'll make sure all of your samples are contaminated, your equipment breaks, and that your favorite pen stays lost. Because all animals can see ghosts, if you work in a lab with rats or mice, the lab ghosts can be the key to your animals cooperating or doing the exact opposite of what you'd like them to do. Lab ghosts have been known to steal samples that definitely aren't just hiding in the back of the freezer somewhere. There are a lot of random noises that happen in labs. And when I hear them, I like to think it's the lab ghost getting up to a little bit of mischief.”
JANET: I am so concerned.
AMANDA: About science now?
JANET: It is very deeply concerning to know that a hypothesis being tested for its factual credibility could be influenced by the paranormal, has thrown my entire world into question. And I—this is almost the extent— this is almost like the equivalent of me seeing a ghost kitty cowboy boots. Like, I feel like I need to stop everything I'm doing as I do it now. It changed everything because that is a terrifying concept.
AMANDA: Well, science is all about repetition, right? it's scientifically valid if others can repeat your findings. So maybe just like other variables, perhaps scientists control for the lab ghost variants.
JANET: I hope you're right, although it sounds like the ghosts themselves are so consistent lab to lab that, that, that might be part of the control.
JULIA: There you go. There you go.
AMANDA: Maybe the ghost is our yeah, like just random chance. And things simply not going right and a convenient kind of place to say well, you know, maybe let's try it again. And maybe that's the—the kind of impetus for repetition, which leads to scientific discovery. I really want to preserve my belief in the scientific method.
JANET: Yeah, you [24:52] you should become the official public relations agent for—
AMANDA: Oh, thank you
JANET: —for scie—for Science capitalists.
AMANDA: For science against ghosts.
JULIA: Well Amanda bad news, because the next one on the list is—
AMANDA: Great.
JULIA: —the science Gods.
AMANDA: Great. Okay, let’s do it.
JULIA: Uh-oh. “So the science Gods may sound similar to lab ghosts, but they hold much more power over your experiments, grades, and future career. Praying to the science gods can ensure that your code runs smoothly, your hypothesis is correct and your data is significant. Annoying the science ghosts can cause samples to disappear, rats to misbehave, and months of writer's block when your thesis is just around the corner. The science gods are finicky, and you never know what will please or displease them. So you must keep an eye out. If your experiments are suddenly starting to go wrong, you must retrace your steps because you've surely angered the science gods and must atone. Typically this is done by drinking away your sorrows and pouring one out in their name.” Which most college students thing I've ever heard in my life.
JANET: I love it. I love it. I feel a little bit safer about the idea that the science got or are causing writer's block than I do the idea of them guiding or misguiding different results including animal behavior.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JANET: And I love the idea of just deciding that the best way to handle that is to get drunk and tell the gods your sorry.
JULIA: Morgan also says that “some people get specific and make their own pantheons of science god. And their favorite is sometimes they uplift famous scientists to the rank of gods, or often they create their own deity such as the Pipette God or the Data Trinity.”I think it's adorable.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JANET: Super into the Pipette God.
JULIA: Now I have a couple more science superstitions and then the story of how Morgan became a Conference Cryptid. But how about we take a quick break and get a refill on our drinks?
JANET: Great.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
[theme]
AMANDA: Hello, hello, it is Amanda, and welcome to the refill, where we are so grateful to have a brand new patron to say hello to. Catherine, thank you for making space in your budget every month to support a podcast that hopefully brings you a lot of joy. If we bring you a fraction of the joy that you bring us by being a patron, I know we are doing our job. Thank you as well to our supporting producer-level patrons, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Brittany, Froody Chick, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Kneazlekins, Lily, Matthew, Megan Moon, Nathan, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi. And our legend-level patrons, Arianna, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Morgan, Sarah, Schmitty, & Bea Me Up Scotty. If you would like to be thanked by name, or to have your name read out in every dang episode as a supporting producer or legend level patron, you can join at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. You can get all kinds of benefits for as little as four bucks a month including show notes, recipe cards, ad-free episodes, custom tarot readings just for you from Julia, and tarot vibe checks every season. All that and more at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. Now you know that we bring you a recommendation each week of something we are reading, watching listening to, we're just doing that we think y'all would enjoy. And I also play Dredge, which Julia recommended last week. It was incredible. Well, I watched my husband Eric Silver play it, but it was incredibly fun. And he included me in all his decisions which I love to do. It's like watching a movie that I get to sort of control in response to things I asked him to do. It's awesome, but sort of a total 180. I know both Julia and I have been working on our gardens recently. And something that had been holding me back from really being like an urban gardener here in my Brooklyn apartment, was knowing that if I ever moved it would be really difficult for me to move any raised beds, like I have a roof right? It's like it's— it's all asphalt there's nothing there. And I'm like I'm not gonna build a raised bed on my roof and then my landlord is like take it away or you know I have to move. And then I you know lose all this work and money that I put into it. So I recently discovered grow bags. these are like really specially formulated fabric bags that come in sizes from five gallons or less, all the way up to like 500 gallons or more. And the great thing is if you ever had need to move them, you just pick them up and move them. Put them on a dolly, whatever you need. And if you again need to put them away for the winter you can like empty out the soil and sanitize it, dried off, folded up and it stores like any other kind of reusable tote. So highly recommended, I'm growing some cucumbers, and some flowers, and some tomatoes this year and I'll keep you posted on how it goes. Grow Bags. y'all. This week if you could do just one thing to help Spirits grow, it's to tell a friend about the show. And I know we say this a lot, specifically what you can do is pause the podcast, text someone or DM them or WhatsApp them and say hi, I think you would really enjoy this podcast beer Spirits because, and then say a thing that is specific to them. Say let's do an urban legend episode, it'll creep you out. Say listen to this episode on Bird Husbands, it's amazing. Say listen to this, you know whole deep dive on Loki who we know from pop culture, but do we really know him exactly? It is so helpful to us and helps us specifically to keep new folks coming into the podcast, setting new urban legends, recommending the show again to their friends becoming patrons, listening to ads, all of the stuff that allows us to keep making the show as our jobs. So it is super, super helpful. Send them a link to your podcast app or to spiritspodcast.com. We appreciate it. And if you want more Multitude content to catch up on, you've listened to all the episodes of Spirits, and you're like, oh, God, what do I do now? I have great news, which is that we make a weekly debate podcast featuring all of our hosts called Head Heart Gut. On the show, we take an iconic set of three items from pop culture or the world we live in each month and pit them against each other. In the first three weeks, each of our contestants presents their choice and answers a definitive survey of greatness. That is the same for every contestant. And then in week four, we bring in a judge to have a formal structured debate on such topics as, what is the best thing to do at an amusement park? What is the best color? What is the best condiment? All kinds of amazing stuff. So we actually put together two months' worth of Head Heart Gut that you can listen to for free. Just search for Head Heart Gut in your podcast player. Or if you want to go ahead and listen to years worth of Head Heart Gut, join the Multi-Crew at multicrew.club is another super important way to support Multitude and sustain the work we are doing. Building community for podcasts and podcasters in this industry. So thank you to everyone who's already a member, and if not check it out. I promise it's worth your while. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. and I know that I don't spend nearly as much time on myself in a given week as I do on all the other people who I'm trying to help and serve and make their lives better. But the thing is that, if I spent all my time on others, and no time on myself, I ended up not actually coming through for them in the way that I want. Or maybe even you know making mistakes or doing things wrong, or being kind of counterproductive and wasting energy and feeling bad about myself honestly. And so when I talk to my therapist, one of the things that we focus on a lot is how I can make more time in my week to affirm myself and make myself feel good, and just take time to do things that aren't for anyone but me. And I'm really glad that I do that. It makes me uncomfortable sometimes. And I think without that outside accountability of talking to a therapist about it, I just kind of wouldn't. So I am really grateful that for many years, especially during lockdown when I couldn't see or find a therapist IRL, I had the ability to get therapy through BetterHelp. Basically, if you are thinking about giving therapy a try, BetterHelp is a really good way to get started. It's entirely online, can fill out just a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist. And importantly, you can switch therapists for no additional charge at any time. So if you don't click, if you're not vibing, if you want to just see what's in and also be like, you can do that really easily. Find more balance with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/spirits today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterHELP.com/spirits. We are also sponsored by a wonderful podcast called Unthinkable with Jay Acunzo. I really, really like Jay and this podcast because it really focuses on all of the creators that we admire and how exactly they do something that is so unique. When people make truly unique things, stuff that I'm like, wow, I never even knew I wanted this kind of content, but here I am and I'm really enjoying it. It's incredible. And there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes about what helps creators learn to do that. How they can trust their intuition and just kind of trusting like what everyone else is doing or you know, a roadmap they see others take, it's really complicated. And Jay does a really great job of teasing out what makes people different and what helps them to do the things they actually want to do when making creative stuff. So Unthinkable is all about trusting yourself more than best practices or what other people do. It's a wonderful podcast that I think you'd really enjoy. So go ahead and listen to Unthinkable with Jay Acunzo, anywhere you get your podcasts. Or visit the link in our show notes for a starter pack of stories for new listeners. That's Unthinkable with Jay Acunzo. And finally, we are sponsored This week by Calm. If like me, you find yourself kind of halfway doing a lot of things during the day, maybe you're like halfway listening to this podcast episode or you're like reading something on your phone that you realize you haven't taken in any of what it is that you've been reading. That can be a really good sign that you may benefit from some more moments of Calm in your day. If you take a deep breath. If you sit with your eyes closed, if you try for a few moments, just think about yourself, and your body and space and like what you need. It can be really hard. And it sounds so silly almost, at least I think that way how taking that time to be calm and centered in with yourself can really, really benefit you. But it can be so difficult which is why I personally really appreciate that I can use the Calm app. With their guided meditations, sleep stories and relaxing music, tracks plus daily movement sessions, which I'm really enjoying recently. To help improve the way you feel and kind of built up that ability to check in with yourself and take some breaks and learn some stuff during the day. And for listeners of the show, Calm is offering an exclusive offer of 40% off a Calm premium subscription at calm./spirits. Go to C A L M.COM/spirits for 40% off unlimited access to Calm's entire library. That's calm.com/spirits. And now let's get back to the show.
JULIA: We are back. And Janet, we always love to ask our guests what they have been enjoying drink-wise lately, whether that is cocktails, mocktails, tea, fancy coffee drinks. What's been— what's been your cup of tea lately?
JANET: Well, I'm glad you said what's been your cup of tea because that is largely what I do drink at home and during the day. As far as cocktails, I'm not a huge drinker at home, but I was in surprisingly, Waco, Texas, just a few weeks ago, and had the like the best Mezcal cocktail I've ever had and—
AMANDA: Woah.
JANET: —maybe one of the best. Certainly one of the best Mexican restaurants I've ever been to. Some central and coastal Mexican family that moved to Waco and is making just the most sublime food and it's a Mezcaleria. So there were a lot of drinks to choose from. And, you know, I can't even remember— it was one of those where you sort of get it and it looks like this could go either way because it looks very pretty. And we all know that sometimes that's just you know, it's like loo—it's for looks, it's not for taste. But it was as delicious as it looked and had some sort of little dried something in it. That I could have used one of our science friends who listens to the show to tell me what it was. Because it was not tamarind, it was not a dried fruit that I had ever experienced before. But it was something that added like a delicious flavor. And when gently nibbled on was still unidentifiable.
JULIA: Alright. Alright. I—I love anything Mezcal, as Amanda also loves everything Mezcal, so that sounds perfect.
JANET: But during the day I have taken to drinking black tea with— I'll brew aside of ginger peach black tea because I don't want all ginger peach tea all that that's a very strong. So I've taken to like every Monday brewing one cup of that, putting in a little bottle and then adding like when I have tea in the morning I'll add like because I usually drink it cold, I'll add you know a splash or two.
AMANDA: Sure.
JANET: For the hint of ginger peach.
JULIA: Like cutting it a little bit, you know.
JANET: It's ridiculous. I've— my partner says you can't ever enjoy anything the way it was made. You are constantly—again shout out to our scientists friends doing little cool experiments in the kitchen, where you know. And I think it dates back to my grandpa who insisted on mixing cereals. He would never just eat [37:44], he needed like two to three cereals in one bowl. And I feel like that sort of infected me and now I do that with almost everything.
JULIA: My husband is the same way with cereals. He loves combining like two different types of—
JANET: I like a mixed cereal.
JULIA: Yeah. I get it.
JANET: I like mixing makeup, like oh let me, this is a great lipstick color, what would happen if I—
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: —added these two other colors that I'll never be able to duplicate?
AMANDA: Janet, I think you're always optimizing like Alec Baldwin said—
JANET: Thank you.
AMANDA: —always be optimizing, never settle for the consumer packaged good and what it wants you to do. My husband's the same way, he's the first person I've ever met who'd like to augment takeout with like the hot sauce he loves at home, or like add the sprinkling of cheese when—which like—I—you know coming to say now sounds very normal and basic. But at the time I was like whoa!
JANET: Game changer.
AMANDA: Last night like leftover you know, guacamole to like today's pizza. Oh my god!
JANET: Yeah. You just—everything you just said describes my almost every day. So included guacamole—
AMANDA: Yeah!
JANET: —and pizza. So 100% upward.
AMANDA: Fuck yeah, dude.
JULIA: So let's get back to some of the labs superstitions for Morgan. Morgan mentions that there are the normal superstitions which is, “every time I or anyone else says something in the lab is going well, we all run to the nearest wood item and knock on it.”
JANET: Yeah.
JULIA: A classic. “Once I opened an umbrella in the lab and someone screamed, afraid that I had doomed them to a failed experiment.”
JANET: And everyone dropped their pipettes.
JULIA: No! “Scientists may say that they don't believe in quote-unquote “silly superstitions.” But if it could be the only thing standing between us and a Nobel Prize, we'll throw that salt over our shoulder, and do the sign of the cross however many times it takes.”
AMANDA: Good.
JULIA: I love that.
JANET: Understood.
JULIA: And then the final superstition that Morgan writes is, bosses are bad luck.
AMANDA: Oh, alright.
JANET: I'll agree with that.
JULIA: Yeah, I mean, we're all like that.
JANET: Yeah.
AMANDA: Morgan, like— like a good conference talk, you've got me from the title. Like the title snag me, I'm along.
JANET: Yeah, yes.
JULIA: So Morgan writes, “some quick background, the person that most nonresearch people would identify as the boss of the lab is known as the PI, which stands for Principle Investigator." That's an extremely cool title, I really liked that.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: “Sometimes you can get in a weird spot where there's multiple PI's in a lab due to grants being strange. But usually there's only one PI, and they're the one that hires people and does the big picture running of the lab. Most of the time, they're pretty hands off. And when they choose to be hands on, it's usually bad luck for the other lab members. Sometimes it's small, like the PI getting involved in your experiments, likely means that they'll pick up something and put it back down somewhere it doesn't belong, because they're never in the lab, and they don't know where it belongs to begin with.”
JANET: So not luck, incompetence. Understood.
JULIA: Yes. Yup, yup, yup. “But other times, if PI walking behind you, can mean the code that was working perfectly 5 minutes ago begins to fail. The data you swore was beautiful yesterday, now looks like a mess. And the student you are mentoring, who is doing perfectly is now messing up the whole experiment and you have to start over. I'm not sure what demon possesses you when you become the PI of a lab. But it's powerful enough to ruin a grad students whole month, just by walking past them.”
AMANDA: I would say it's, you know, authority power, the tendency of power to corrupt, things like that.
JANET: Yeah, that— this is very, I think this is— this falls into the same— first of all, I believe it's real. And I do believe that it falls into a similar category, if not the same category as my car was making the sound until I took it into the shop. Or insert other thing that you experienced many times by yourself, and then as soon as a person who can actually—
JULIA: Yes.
JANET: —respond in some way about it positive or negative, it ceases. Or some— some version of that. I think that's really real. And I—I would extend that even to just if you're doing something with a co-worker, and you're trying to show them something and you're like, hold on, let me type. You're like, why can't I type anymore? Why am I typing all cues? Like what's happening to me? Why—stop looking at me, stop looking at me. I think those are all—those are all factors at play.
JULIA: Yeah. I have the opposite problem, and it's a little bit of a joke in my household now, which is anytime my husband drives my car, he discovers something wrong with it. Like I'll be driving it like one day and like everything works fine. And then the next day he takes it out, and he's like, your windshield wipers don't work anymore. I'm like, what do you mean my windshield wipers don't work anymore, they worked yesterday. He's like, no, I was driving, they just don't work anymore. The motor must have gone out. I'm like, it's because you decided to fuck with it. Damn you.
JANET: Yeah. Yeah, that's— that's him. That's—
JULIA: Yes.
JANET: —he's bringing that in. He's bringing [44:22]
JULIA: Yeah, that's his energy.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JANET: He shouldn't drive your car anymore.
AMANDA: Though you know, we haven't explored yet Julia. I don't think we've touched on car ghosts very often. We had a very memorable parking ghost, a family who would invoke a dead family member to help them find good parking.
JULIA: The parking angel, Amanda.
AMANDA: The parking angel, of course. Thank you. Just a flavor of ghosts. Yes.
JANET: Yes. Different. Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah. And I think he had a weird name like Trent.
JANET: Yeah, like Trent, the parking angel.
AMANDA: Yeah, just a very funny name. But Julia, perhaps you have a car spirit that you have a perfectly fine working relationship with. But they either and want Jake's attention, or don't love him being in their space.
JULIA: That's fair.
JANET: I mean, a car is just another form of a horse. And we all know that horses have their preferences of riders.
JULIA: That's true.
AMANDA: Janet—
JULIA: That is true.
AMANDA: —it’s fucking true.
JANET: [43:03]
AMANDA: No one's ever said anything so smart on this podcast.
JANET: Especially if you drive a Mustang. Alright. I've been Janet Varney, everybody. Thank you so much. You can find me on the lab—
JULIA: Ahh, I wish I do.
JANET: —Monday through Friday.
AMANDA: Just don't pour grain into your gas tank.
JANET: [trumpet sound]
AMANDA: Thank you. Thank you. Alright, Julia. I gotta hear about this—this Conference Cryptid, though.
JULIA: Excellent. So Morgan goes, “as a quick bonus story, I'd love to tell you about the time I became a Conference Cryptid. At science conferences, people always tell you to have business cards to help with networking. But those are boring and get thrown away 99% of the time.”
AMANDA: True. True.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. "Not to mention, it can be difficult to keep all the names straight with who said what, and which names are with which faces, etc. So I decided to get creative and order 200 individually wrapped worms on a string, (if you know, you know). And made stickers with my website, field of study, social media handles, and a headshot to put on the wrappers.”
JANET: Wow.
JULIA: “Then throughout the conference, I carried a bag of worms on a string and a sign that just said free worms, just ask.”
JANET: Wow, love it. This is the kind of creativity and innovation, and humor that we want to see from our scientists and researchers. I love everything I'm hearing.
JULIA: I agree.
AMANDA: Janet, I now feel great about the future of science. It feature the millennial scientists bringing us into the future.
JANET: Yes!
JULIA: Hell yeah. Worms on a string.
JANET: Worms on a string.
JULIA: “Anytime someone asked about my worms or asked for a business card, or if I genuinely wanted to make a connection, I gave them a worm. Turns out not only was this memorable, but it also turned me into a bit of a cryptid as well. Once I was at a bar and pulled out a worm to give to someone and they shouted, you're the one who's been handing out the worms! And then I was just swarmed by people asking for worms.”
AMANDA: Damn.
JULIA: “Another person saw my sign and told me they'd been hit in the back of the head with a worm that someone threw during a lecture, which I do not condone. Pretty funny. Many older scientists began going around the conference asking people why, and the younger ones started seeking me out to try to get a worm. After the conference was over, I started getting DMS from people telling me that their lab mates had returned to telling the tale of the quote-unquote, “worm girl.”
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: “I will definitely be doing this again at the next conference I attend. Thank you so much for keeping me and my lab ghost company on late nights, pouring over experiments and data. Morgan.”
JANET: Morgan, my biggest concern in your life right now, as your friend is I'm scared that when you go to the next conference, a bunch of people will have cribbed your idea. I'm—
JULIA: Yeah!
JANET: —genuinely scared that people are going to be like, here's this origami wasp that I can sail through the air, you know, and you gotta land in your hair. And then there's a little tiny picture of the person who sent it.
AMANDA: Yup.
JANET: And a little [45:55] I'm nervous.
JULIA: I think as long as it's not a like bit for bit replication, that's okay. Like, I like the idea of just a bunch of weird bug related—
JANET: [46:04]
JULIA: —things.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Being passed out at these conferences.
JANET: It's gonna be like Halloween. You're gonna have to have like your trick or treat—
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: —contact bag for all the people that you meet. But I—
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: —I love the idea because it does feel like, it feels like a risk, even though it's like goofy and silly and great. But it still feels like a lot of thought went into it and that you sort of can see Morgan laying out the challenges like— like we heard in the email of business cards and being like, okay, and first I need to solve the— it looks like everything else problem. Then I need to solve the— who gave it to me problem. And so all of those things are being checked off a list very systematically, to then result in a very whimsical solution.
JULIA: Very scientifically, one would say.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JANET: Indeed.
AMANDA: This is simply good marketing.
JULIA: It is.
AMANDA: From Morgan. And Morgan said that she is a neurobiology student.
JULIA: Neuroscience. Yeah.
AMANDA: Neuroscience [46:57]
JANET: Neuroscience getting her P—she's working on her dissertation right now.
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: Godspeed to you. Science godspeed, I should say because—
AMANDA: Exactly.
JANET: —that's a lot of work, my friend.
JULIA: You're doing great.
AMANDA: I think my only note here Morgan is, A. I do see here a 200-pack of fuzzy worm toys on Amazon for $34.99. So it is— it is also economical, which I highly appreciate. I think if you were a worm scientist, this would be the best version of itself for me. But worms have brains, albeit small. So I mean, it's possible. Maybe Morgan has an interest in worms.
JANET: Maybe it's a gummy worm next time because people get peckish while they're eating and or—
AMANDA: Good.
JANET: —while they're doing the— while they're at the conference. And so there's some remnant that gets leftover that you can still hold on to that, has your picture and stuff. But it also satisfies that you know, little craving for maybe some low blood sugar—
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: —stuff that you need to have quick boost.
JULIA: Maybe you staple a little bag onto the business card that has the gummy worm inside it.
JANET: There we go. There we go.
AMANDA: Love it. A tissue pack, that's what I often need most at a—at a conference table.
JANET: Hmm. Good call.
AMANDA: A little tissue pack. Yeah, this is good.
JANET: Or maybe like the little tissues that I always think I want and then forget exist in the summer that you were— you can just absorb all of your grease and sweat.
JULIA: Oh, yeah. Yep.
AMANDA: It's a blotting paper. Hmm.
JANET: That's a nice moment right there. Good stuff.
JULIA: I miss those. I should get another pack of those.
JANET: See, you won't!
JULIA: No, I probably won't.
JANET: You will never remember.
JULIA: I probably forget about it.
JANET: You'll never remember until you wish you had them.
JULIA: And they'll be like, uh, my face is so greasy. And then I'll be like, I'll go buy them next time. Then totally forget—
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: —every time.
JANET: It's one of those items.
JULIA: Every time.
AMANDA: I follow a lot of like vintage resale Instagrams, Julia does as well, we really enable each other in this way.
JANET: Yep.
AMANDA: And I did see one recently that had a writing desk and the seller demonstrated what a blotting pad would look like on the desk. And I just pictured like Victorian person like face planting into the blotting pad [laughs]
JULIA: Yeah, how handy?
AMANDA: Love it.
JULIA: [laughs] I love that.
AMANDA: One use only or—
JULIA: It's amazing.
AMANDA: —else your—your visage does look back at you but—
JANET: And you do have to get a new desk. It's—they're all connected.
AMANDA: Yup.
JANET: So unfortunately it's a bit of a waste, but—
AMANDA: It's true.
JANET: Oh, amazing.
JULIA: It's so funny.
AMANDA: So folks to close out here today, I have a short story from Rose they/them called, My uncle's haunted plush. Which I was worried about, but ended up being a deeply disturbing urban legend, so.
JULIA: I was— I was also worried about.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: But for different reasons, I guess.
AMANDA: Beginning Julia with this sentence, brace ourselves for mortality here. “The year was 1992, my uncle was a child.”
JULIA: Noooo!
JANET: I'm so sorry. We're all going to need to take a one-year break.
JULIA: We gonna take a walk. We're gonna take a lap, as we process this information.
AMANDA: Take a lap like we said Macbeth in the theater. We're going to have to take a lap shirtless like we did in high school.
JANET: Okay, wait, so Rose is like 5 right now? I know that's not how uncle's work. I understand—
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: — I understand that you can have an uncle who's younger than you even.
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: But this is already feels like a— like a— like a some sort of puzzle or like brain teaser, so I'm ready.
AMANDA: It does.
JANET: Yeah.
JULIA: It seems like a logic problem, where we gonna have to solve for x.
JANET: It seems like a logic problem.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JANET: Yeah.
AMANDA: Doctor was their mother and your sex is the answer, yes. Alright. It's 1992 Rose's uncle was child. “And he had what was called a pet net.”
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: Is this a thing that either of you have heard of before?
JULIA: No, but I'm about to Google it and see.
AMANDA: No, Julia don't!
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: The pet net is where he kept most of his stuffed animals. And it was a net that hung several feet above his bed.
JULIA: Oh, yes. Okay. I have— I remember this from also being a child in 1992, so.
AMANDA: This mystifies me. You go to sleep under the trapped forms of your stuffed animal pals, suspended—
JULIA: It's cute!
AMANDA: —above your reach?!
JULIA: Is it—I mean, it's not much different than them sitting on a shelf above your bed, is it?
AMANDA: But Julia, then I could rotate them out one by one.
JANET: It feels like they just were walking along the ground and like—
AMANDA: Yeah!
JANET: Triggered something—
AMANDA: Yes!
JANET: —that then pull them into the air and now they're in a fix.
AMANDA: Yes!
JULIA: Like a trap—
JANET: Yeah.
JULIA: —in the cartoon.
AMANDA: Yeah, it does!
JULIA: It's okay.
AMANDA: So, Rose continued, “there was no way for him to reach this net without assistance. And it's important to note that my mom raised my uncle, and even today he sends her a Mother's Day Card.” So very cute. The uncle's older sister, Rose's mom.
JULIA: Okay, so that's why he was a child in 1992, and this is hopefully a full ass adult.
AMANDA: Yes. “One night when he was five, he woke up my mom, his sister, saying that it felt like there was stuffed animal dancing on his chest.”
JANET: Okay.
JULIA: Okay. I'm nervous.
AMANDA: My tummy too. “My mom being a very mature 10-year-old, didn't believe him and thought it was just his overactive imagination. But regardless, because she was nice, said she would go with him to his room and stay until he fell asleep. She tucked him in and laid down beside him. Where after a few seconds, she too felt off. She looked around and saw a stuffed animal wiggling its way out of the pet net.”
JANET: No.
JULIA: Umm.
AMANDA: “It fell onto the bed and started dancing on his chest.”
JULIA: No! What?!
JANET: Uh, was it a kitten?
AMANDA: So Janet, great question. I too hoped it would be a real animal.
JANET: Yeah.
AMANDA: I thought at first raccoon or squirrel. That's worse. Hopefully cat or dog.
JULIA: But maybe it's also— this is 1992. It wasn't quite Furby years yet.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: But I remember I had one of those, like rotating balls that also had a ferret attached to it, maybe it's one of though?
JANET: Hmm. Yeah. Something that yeah—something that has a button that you can trigger that makes it dance like a trout in a—
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: CVS, uh yeah.
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: Okay.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JANET: That's a very specific reference for anyone who doesn't know.
JULIA: I got you. I got you.
AMANDA: Watching The Sopranos right now for the first time, it's also a very thematically appropriate reference.
JANET: Yes.
AMANDA: “So my mom flipped her shit, grabbed the stuffed animal and holding it at arm's distance, tried to take it to her parents, but it wiggled out of her hands in the hallway!”
JULIA: See, I would—assuming when she grabs it, I assumed it would be, [grunt sound] and just throw it out.
JANET: No, I'm really impressed by the bravery of Rose's mom. This is—
JULIA: The 10-year-old, yeah.
JANET: —yeah. Ciri—whatever—however this end, Rose's mom is a hero.
AMANDA: Like a movie with a flashback. We know that Rose's mom survives to have her own child, so that's good at least.
JANET: Fair.
AMANDA: That's— that's heartening. Alright. “She didn't try to pick it back up after it wiggled out of her hand.”
JANET: Fair.
AMANDA: “Instead just went and got her parents. By the time she got back to the stuffed animal where it had fallen, with her parents now awake, it had moved down the hallway several feet. Her parents not really believing her, but wanted to [53:34] their kids, put tape around the stuffed animal and went to where the hallway was out of view for a couple minutes.” So I think they mean like they taped to the stuffed animal, you know to the carpet or the wall, or just taped it you know its limbs up, went away, and then came back to check on it.
JULIA: Oh, I pictured it like they just taped around [53:52]
JANET: I'll also picture that.
JULIA: Know when it moved past that like— like assault circle for a demon.
AMANDA: Oh, you're probably right, Julia.
JANET: That's not what I thought. We—
JULIA: Okay.
JANET: —have something different.
AMANDA: Oooh, look at that.
JANET: I imagined it being taped up to keep it from moving—
JULIA: Ohh, no.
JANET: —which is just sort of another —
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: —Ex—that feels like a continuation of keeping your pets in a net or your— your stuffed animals in a net. Like it feels now like you've put a little gag on it. You've got it all taped up so it can't go anywhere.
AMANDA: You put it in a tiny jail. Yeah.
JULIA: You put it on some railroad tracks and the [54:23]
JANET: Exactly.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JANET: [54:24]
AMANDA: Reading it now Julia, I think you're likely right that they sort of like you know showed where the animal was so that they can then come back and be like, see it didn't move. “However, by the time she went back to with her parents, it had moved another several feet.”
JULIA: There we go!
JANET: Okay, there we go.
AMANDA: Yep.
JANET: And this by the way is also science and experimentation, so—
JULIA: There you go. [54:42]
JANET: There's a [54:42]
AMANDA: So the last line of this email, we don't get a clean ending here folks.
JULIA: Ughhh.
JANET: Ugh, the worst.
AMANDA: Rose says, “my grandmother doing one of the last same things I've heard of her doing.”
JULIA: Uh-oh.
AMANDA: “Grab the plush, went to the backyard, and burned it right there.”
JANET: No, no, no, no, no! That was our only evidence.
AMANDA: I know.
JULIA: It's true.
AMANDA: I know.
JULIA: Do you know what bothers me about the story?
AMANDA: What Julia?
JULIA: I don't know what type of animal or plush it was. That's what's bothering me.
JANET: There's a lot to— there's a lot to ask. I agree.
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: That, that might not be—and I based on the way that you pause, that it sort of sounds like you know that there may be more important questions to ask?
JULIA: [55:21] that is among them! That is among them.
AMANDA: Yeah. This is not a situation where you know, a Furby keeps talking after you take the battery out, because there's like residual power in the circuits, whatever.
JANET: Classic, indeed.
AMANDA: Classic. Or, you know, a toy with a voice box that gets kind of distorted or broken. All these things we're used to. I frankly, would be amused and probably not read the story on the podcast if this was a bird, or a cat that had made its way into the net.
JANET: Yeah.
AMANDA: But the combination of these two children fending for themselves, Rose being a generation Z or perhaps later who nonetheless listens to this podcast. Love you, Rose. Thank you for listening. You're helping our statistics look robust as a bell curve. Good God, this— this is going to stick with me. This —this stuffed animal moving many times.
JANET: Yeah. I was gonna say because we end thinking about it wriggling along the floor, which is of course terrifying.
AMANDA: Yes.
JANET: We need to revisit dancing on their chest.
JULIA AND AMANDA: Yeah.
JANET: What are we saying here?
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Yep. And not just on the chest of Rose's uncle, but on Rose's mom as well.
JANET: Yeah.
AMANDA: This is— this is replicable. This is science people, [56:25] appened again. Multiple witnesses. We had tape, we measured it.
JULIA: My—my issue is— and again, I'm circling back just to the imagery of it. Is it like a teddy bear, and it was doing like a little like dance, dance?
JANET: What kind of dancing, that's important!
AMANDA: That is important.
JULIA: Based on what its limbs are like.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Right. And then we're talking about it squirming, which is scary or it makes me think of like something longer bodied—
AMANDA: Limb—right.
JULIA: —that I guess.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JANET: Hmm.
JULIA: The fact that I don't know what kind of animal or plush it is makes it scarier in my mind.
JANET: It's not okay.
AMANDA: It's not okay.
JANET: It is—it is more scary. And the question also [57:02] Where was the emission? Did Rose decide that they would omit this? And they know, or did mom like was that never part of the story, and all of a sudden roses like oh my gosh, she never did tell me what it is.
JULIA: Yeah. Or maybe it's just one of those things where it was so traumatic, you kind of blocked the imagery out of your mind, and you're like, I don't remember what kind of animal it was. It was just scary and gross.
JANET: I don't know how that's not burned in your brain for all time. But the brain is an interesting muscle. I don't know.
AMANDA: Let's decide together. What would be the scariest version of a plush?
JANET: Great clutch.
AMANDA: To— for us to fancast here?
JULIA: Yeah, like a fuzzy snake, I guess would be pretty bad. Right?
AMANDA: How would that— would that dancing though Julia look—
JULIA: [57:46]
AMANDA: Perhaps that might undercut it.
JULIA: Hmm.
JANET: Dancing feels like there are multiple limbs, so that different—
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JANET: Parts of it are touching you at different times. That being said, the snake could just be sort of bouncing different parts of its body in a dance-like way, so it doesn't rule it out.
JULIA: Might be literally doing the worm.
JANET: It might be doing the worm.
AMANDA: Possible.
JANET: Shout out to worm girl.
JULIA: Shout out to worm girl.
AMANDA: I was thinking perhaps a goat. Because I think the sensation of little hooves on your chest would be pretty a lot. But also, you look up close, goats got those fucked up eyes what goes sideways?
JANET: I know. But as soon as you said tiny hooves, it sounded cute to me.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Alright. Alright. Fair, fair. Maybe a snowshoe hare. I had a stuffed animal of a snowshoe hare growing up—
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: [58:29]
JANET: Okay.
AMANDA: Also scary rabbit eyes.
JANET: It's creepy.
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: I mean, it's hard not to go— just to go to some of the classics and imagine like a little clown doll. I mean, that's—
JULIA: Ughh.
AMANDA: Oh, Julia's not pleased with that.
JANET: Yeah.
JULIA: Oooh, no. Oohh, no.
JANET: I mean, that's— that's got to be high on my list. I—
JULIA: Yeah.
JANET: —I just think—I'm trying to think of something that would be worse than that. That feels bad.
JULIA: Yep. That—
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: —That is bad. I'm not—not a fan of that at all.
JANET: Unlike little ghosts. Titingtiting tingtiting.
JULIA: Oddly, you know, a little goat. Kind of satanic kind of makes sense for that—
JANET: Oh, for sure.
JULIA: —to be you know, like, possessed by some weird ghost thing and then move across the floor. And ultimately, as we leave the story burned into a pile of ash.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JANET: Yeah. But to your point, I think Julia like once you—once you take it like you—it has to be something can dance on the chest, but also isn't like standing up and moving in a non-sort of wriggly way. The way it's described once it leaves the chest. Maybe this is like Alien, where it's like—
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Ooohh.
JANET: —it becomes different things depending on its lifetime and uh—
JULIA: Okay.
JANET: —and it span. So maybe it started out as something with legs that was dancing, and then it oozed into something that then didn't have those legs and had to wriggle and squirm.
JULIA: Now I'm picturing John Carpenter's The Thing.
JANET: [gasp] Oh, yeah!
JULIA: The most terrifying.
JANET: There you go. That's probably got hooves and teeth and clowns, and all kinds of stuff mixed in.
JULIA: It's got all the things!
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: [59:58]
AMANDA: And as you burn it, it's shape shift between many, many forms before sort of—
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: — you know, becoming perhaps a moth or a bird and flying away. Maybe the spirit of loose. We don't know.
JANET: Uh-huh. Yeah.
JULIA: Horrifying. Amanda, thank you for that. We could have just been—
AMANDA: You're welcome.
JULIA: —like the Evil's dead here, but you're like no, it turned into a moth and flew away to haunt another child.
AMANDA: Julia, so just like— just like Janet always be optimizing. Mine is always be franchising, that's mine.
JULIA: Uhh, of course.
AMANDA: How can I make every urban legend we get? And people do check a textbox that is legally blind—binding that says maybe read your message on the podcast. They said yes, I'm going to franchise [1:00:32]
JULIA: Yeah. Alright, alright.
JANET: Fantastic. Hoof. I'm—I'm— I'm troubled. I'm troubled.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: You're welcome. That's the Spirit's promise. And Janet, if folks would like to follow along with you and your work, your fabulous podcasts, where can they find out more about your stuff online?
JANET: I mean, you can go to Instagram and I wouldn't encourage you to sit there until I post because you will go without food and sleep for a quite some time. But certainly, you can go there at—that's @thejvclub, like the name of my podcast, The JV Club on Twitter, where I still am just sort of like, you know, not with a bang, but a whimpering kind of just existing waiting for my blue check to disappear. And very comfortable with that, @JanetVarney. And yeah, the JV Club. I talked to people about their awkward teenage years. Amanda has been on recently, it was a fabulous conversation. People really loved it and gave great feedback. Julia, I'm coming for you next.
JULIA: Yay!
JANET: And I—hopefully you'll have some—some teenage ghost stories, you— that you can pretend or your own even if you [1:01:36]
JULIA: Oh, I have one.
JANET: Okay, good. It'll be— it'll be a true crossover.
JULIA: Yeah. Listeners to the show know the story of the man with the trench coat and a hat and dogs, so they're all familiar with.
JANET: Alright.
AMANDA: Good one.
JULIA: A recurring character on the show, I would say.
JANET: And I'd love to hear from people on social media, what kind of stuffed animal they think would make the most sense. It can be together or apart what you'd be most afraid of.
JULIA: And if you're going to share those, please don't tag Janet in any particularly scary images. I know you guys like to do that to me sometimes. That's fine, I can handle it.
JANET: I feel like I can handle it. Now, I want to see —
JULIA: Alright.
JANET: —what people come up with. I feel like I can handle it.
JULIA: I just didn't want to subject you to that if you weren't down for it.
JANET: I appreciate it. It had the reverse psychology effect where now I'm like, bring it on!
JULIA: Bring it. I want to see the long Furby. Give me the long Furby.
JANET: Yes [laughs]
AMANDA: Amazing.
JULIA: Leaving the image of long Furby in your minds. Remember listeners stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
[theme]
AMANDA: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a form to send us in your urban legends and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, for all kinds of behind-the-scenes goodies. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more. Like recipe cards with alcoholic and nonalcoholic for every single episode, directors' commentaries, real physical gifts, and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA : Bye!