Episode 227: Your Urban Legends XLIX - PS3: Powered By Ghosts?
/What kind of video games do ghost gamers prefer? What does the hierarchy of sleep paralysis demons look like? Is a ghost with snow pants really THAT scary? Sometimes we’re left with more questions than answers after an urban legends episode!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, descriptions of violence, murder, police violence, blood, death by exposure, animal death, demons/the Devil, drowning, child death, and pandemic.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends Gold Diggers by Sanjena Sathian and Caul Baby by Morgan Jerkins.
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Transcript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is Episode 227: Your Urban Legends Edition XLIX. I don't know why I said it sexy, but I just wanted to, you know, bring a little personality to it.
Julia: No, it's not Our Sexy Urban Legends. Not this time. Not this time around. But I do think that this is a pretty quality episode. I think we have some very interesting discussions and I am excited to hear what our listeners have to say.
Amanda: Yeah, it's always exciting when one of us is like, “Hey, guys, in three weeks, when we record the next Urban Legends Episode, remind me I have something great to share. You know, that's, that's how this one begins.
Julia: Both you and I had that this episode. So, that's exciting.
Amanda: We did. And I also feel great about sharing the names of our newest patrons; Katlyn and Stabby Beast. Thank you so very much for supporting us.
Julia: Stabby Beast, great name.
Amanda: So good. And thank you to our supporting producer level patrons. These names are like music to me; Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Bryan, Debra, Hannah, Jane, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Justin, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Liz, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Polly, Sanna, Sarah, Scott, Skyla, and Zazi.
Julia: You're right. It is like music to my ears. It's like a nice little, like, talk. What's it – what's it called in Musical Theater, Amanda, when it's like a duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh?
Amanda: Oh, like – I don't know. Like, a staccato.
Julia: Yeah, I think it's like a – like a singing chat or something like that. I feel like that's probably it. But—
Amanda: [laughs] I like the real Sutton Foster energy when you were saying that and I really appreciate it.
Julia: Thank you. Thank you.
Amanda: Our legend level patrons, I think, could really hold their own in any kind of duet with Sutton Foster; Audra, Drew, Jack Marie, Ki, Lada, Mark, Morgan, Necroroyalty, Renegade, SamneyTodd, and Bea Me Up Scotty.
Julia: Now, I don't know what any of these legend level patrons look like, but I can picture them very distinctly in my mind doing the Anything Goes tap number.
Amanda: Mhmm. That's exactly what I was thinking about. Jonathan Groff doing that, at some, like, benefit 10 years ago—
Julia: Woof.
Amanda: —that’s a YouTube video that I return to, Julia, like, every other month or so.
Julia: Same. Same. Same. Same.
Amanda: Yeah. Oh, that's fantastic.
Julia: Speaking of things that we return to or things that we watch, listen to, or read for joy, Amanda, what do you have to recommend for us?
Amanda: Yeah, I have two new books to recommend. So, one is Caul Baby by Morgan Jerkins, somebody who I have enjoyed on Twitter for many years, fellow 30 under 30, BTDubs. And this is her fiction debut. It is a novel about a, like, family with secrets and betrayal, and intrigue, and magic. And it is so good. You would love it, Julia, and I think lots of conspirators would too.
Julia: I bet they would. That sounds right up their alley.
Amanda: And then, immediately after finishing Caul Baby. I read Gold Diggers by Sanjena Sathian, who I love. Now, I have not heard of her previously and I'm going to follow all of her works after this. It's a magical realism coming of age story about, like, an Indian-American family. It's, like, cross continental. It is cross coastal. There are four different epochs, like moving, you know, forward in time, which I always love. It is funny. There's so much about, like, diaspora about meritocracy about America. But it's also just a really good novel. So, Gold Diggers and Caul Baby, I could not recommend more.
Julia: Oh, I will definitely have to put those on reserve at my local library. Thanks, Amanda.
Amanda: You got it. And, in the description or at spiritspodcast.com/books, you can go to our bookshop.org profile and see all of the books by guests and just by people that we recommend and think are great.
Julia: Yes, it's great. I love that we have this list that I can refer to back being like, “What was that one that Amanda recommended to me a couple of weeks ago? And I can't remember what it's about. But I remember it sounded like this.” And, if you enjoy our Advice From Folklore Episodes, if you enjoyed the Norse Mythology and Cosmology Episode that we did a while back, you obviously love Moiya McTier. And you would love Exolore and I'm specifically plugging Exolore this week for you to listen to because our good friend, Moiya, is now Dr. Moiya McTier, PhD.
Amanda: So official.
Julia: And you absolutely should check out her work. She's fantastic. She's a lovely human being. And she is one of the smartest and coolest people that I know, not including you, Amanda.
Amanda: You can include me because all of us were in the Multitude Slack live blogging her thesis defense from last week and it was so much fun. I'm so happy she's part of the Multitude family. And, if you like stories, you'll love Exolore period. So, look up Exolore and all of the other Multitude shows. You can go to multitude.productions to check out all of the shows on our website and see which one might be fun for you or just put the word Multitude in your podcast player.
Julia: Heck yeah.
Amanda: And, without further ado, we hope you enjoy Episode 227: Your Urban Legends number XLIX.
Intro Music
Amanda: Guys, it's finally nice out in a place of the country where we live. And it's very, very exciting. So, the other day, I went on a walk to a park near my house and I got some ice cream. I sat on a distanced bench. Non-dairy ice cream, plentiful in Brooklyn. It's wonderful. And there I was sitting, eating my ice cream and next to a dog park, watching the dogs go by when I saw two city kids walk by.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And, as a kid raised in the suburbs, as I'm sure you both agree, there is something untouched really cool about city kids where they are dressed better, they probably know about, like, the Ramones and stuff, they probably, like, remember when the city was cooler. And it is just like some kind of – I don’t know – I think, every suburban kids somewhere deep down really wishes they could be a city kid, you know.
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Eric: I feel like I don't have the concept of, of city kid really.
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: Like, I wasn't even sure exactly what you meant when you first said it. Like, I kind of understand. I feel like Cleveland has never been, like, a very populist, like, kid—
Amanda: A cool place.
Eric: —growing up kind of town. Like, almost everyone lives in the suburbs. I understand what you mean, though, like, in terms of, like, seeing a New York City kid because there definitely is an inherent coolness of a New York City teen that I don't think like a Midwest Metropolitan Downtown really has. But I definitely understand what you mean.
Julia: Yeah, they have a level of independence that isn't just latchkey kid.
Eric: Yeah. Like, we don't have kids that, like, ride public transit around here really.
Julia: [chuckles]
Eric: That's not really a thing.
Amanda: Yeah, but you've been on the subway in New York City. And seeing, like, a nine-year-old on the subway, like, playing a game boy SP, you know, and just, like, wearing a vintage rock shirt, like, “Wow. Okay. I’m—
Eric: Yeah, very, very concerning to me.
Amanda: —I’m never gonna be that cool. Well, I saw two of these kids walked by me in the park. And I was close enough. And it was still enough in a beautiful spring day to hear them say, one to the other, “Oh, yeah. His family was visiting a graveyard.” And I, obviously, tuned the fuck in.
Julia: [laughs]
Amanda: I took my headphones out. And then the kid continued, “Yeah. Yeah. You know, his family's visiting a graveyard. And he looked over at one of the graves and said, “Oh, I recognize that guy.” But, by that time, the kids had walked too far away, guys.
Julia: No.
Amanda: And I could not follow them. And, so, I have here a double mystery.
Eric: Hmm.
Amanda: One, the mystery of how that kid knew the person in the graveyard and, two, the mystery of how that fucking story ended because I don't know and I am so devastated.
Julia: What does it mean to recognize a guy in a graveyard? Was there, like, a, an engraving of this person's face on the tombstone? What's happening here?
Eric: I know what's happening. I—
Julia: Okay.
Eric: Were, were the – were these – what age were these children? And were they both boys?
Amanda: No, I don't know how the children identified, but they were like 11. I don't think they were trying to scare each other. One was just telling the other like—
Eric: Right.
Amanda: “Oh, isn't this interesting?” They're also holding hands. So, I, I hope that they were dating.
Eric: I think what was going to happen is the kid was gonna say that the name on the tombstone was Seymour Butz.
Amanda: [laughs]
Julia: Classic.
Amanda: There wasn't a punch line.
Eric: Because that's what I would have done as an 11-year-old boy. I would have been like, “Oh, I recognize that guy.” I would be like, “It's Seymour Butz.” Because Seymour Butz was the funniest name growing up.
Amanda: I believe it was Julia telling you the story when we were 10 or 11.
Eric: Hmm.
Amanda We would have been like, “Yes. And then he recognized himself from an earlier life.”
Julia: It's, it's the story of I went on a date, and I went to go bring her back her jacket, and she's been dead for 15 years.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: So, it was delicious. I was seeing an urban legend being transmitted in front of me. Yet, for safety reasons on multiple levels, I did not run after the children saying, “Tell me the end of the story.”
Eric: Smart.
Amanda: So—
Julia: Fantastic.
Amanda: —that's the story of love and loss that I, I bring to you. And, as I Slacked to you guys last week, remind me I have an anecdote. This is the anecdote.
Eric: [laughs] That’s not it.
Amanda: And I am going to return to that park in future weekends and keep my ears out.
Julia: If you are these cool 11-year-olds who listen to our podcast, please.
Amanda: You might.
Julia: You might be.
Amanda: I would be—
Eric: Who knows.
Amanda: —so flattered.
Julia: Please tell us the end of that story. Thank you.
Amanda: Yes. Yes.
Eric: I've got an arguably creepier side of real banger have an opener with, “Did I kill my sleep paralysis demon?”
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: Oh, okay.
Eric: Yeah. Yeah.
Julia: Did they?
Amanda: Come at us.
Eric: So, this comes to us from Eda and they write, “This incident happened to me when I was a teenager. It was the first time I had ever had sleep paralysis and also the last.”
Julia: Bump-bump-bump.
Eric: “I remember waking up on my back unable to move. I'd had a fear of the dark since my childhood. So, I scanned the room with my eyes and immediately checked for any threats. To my horror, in the corner of the room, sit a dark-hooded figure.”
Julia: Uh-umm.
Eric: And, if that wasn't already bad enough, the figure started to walk towards me. I remember my heart pounding in my chest and fear like I had never experienced before. When the figure was right next to the bed, I, as an avid supernatural fan, gathered all of my willpower and rose to attack the figure.
Julia: Whoa.
Eric: All my movements were slow and heavy. But, in the end, with my bare hands—
Julia: What?
Eric: —I broke the figure’s neck.
Julia: Excuse me?
Amanda: Oh, my god.
Eric: Just as the neck snapped, I woke up. Needless to say, the incident didn't make my fear of the dark any better and I slept with my lights on for the next month at least. But I never experienced anything like that again. Recently, I've started to think why I've never experienced another sleep paralysis episode and wondered if I actually had killed my demon. I'm not sure if people only get one sleep process demon per lifetime or if they've had trouble recruiting a new one for me after my violent attack. I'm a very gentle person. I carry bugs outside, let fish go when fishing, and I also joke that, if there was a zombie apocalypse, I'd be the first to die. But this incident has given me hope that in a real threatening situation, I could act like a bad guy. Thanks again and hope you're having a lovely day. Eda.”
Julia: So—
Eric: Mhmm.
Julia: —I think that, in the – let's assume that there is a bureaucracy of sleep paralysis demons.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Fair.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: I would have to assume that once you “murdered” one of them—
Eric: Mhmm.
Julia: —they probably were like, “Yeah, let's not bother with that. That's not gonna work.”
Amanda: I totally agree. It's like a Best Buy has the Loss Prevention Department. And they have policies, where, at a certain point, it costs more money to, like, go after a stolen item or to, like, go after a thing that has been lost. Like, it's just cheaper to refund, and cut your losses, and move on.
Eric: True. Yeah. I know – I can't remember which one it is in, like, traditional Dungeons and Dragons lore. But, like, devils and demons, one of them, like, goes back to the hellish plane and then, like, becomes, like, a little blob and gets, like, dropped down a cast level and stuff like that. So, I don't know if that happens with these kinds of, of shadow demons. It could just be that they're now, like, haunting an easier to sleep paralyzed person.
Julia: Yeah, I think this is definitely a, like, lawful evil creature and they're just like, “No. No, you don't get to go back now.”
Eric: Yeah. Exactly.
Julia: You failed your test.
Eric: Yeah, you couldn't handle this child.
Julia: I'm picturing it like Monsters Inc.
Eric: The King of the sleep paralysis demons is, like, “That shows up what has been found.”
Julia: [laughs]
Eric: [laughs] We must – we must stop them.
Amanda: And then, in the sequel, the writer is recruited as king, or queen, or monarch—
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah, there we go.
Amanda: —of the regent of the sleep paralysis demons. And we have a whole trilogy mapped out here, guys.
Eric: Nice.
Julia: This is very good.
Eric: TM. TM.
Julia: Very good.
Amanda: I know.
Julia: TM. TM.
Amanda: I know. It's a real – like, in our pitch document, we mention, like, the Good Place but also Monsters Inc. It's great.
Julia: Perfect.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: I love it.
Amanda: Well, I have a similarly kind of wonderful story with a meta element. So, I think that was a great way to start us off, Eric. This comes from Spud, he/him, who writes in Tao Po, a Filipino litmus test on the safety of opening doors.
Julia: See? Amanda, bringing it back together because of the silly college students.
Amanda: Oh, yeah. Okay. Spud writes, “Hey, Spirits Team, loyal listener since 2017, born and raised in the land of sunshine, typhoons and spirits. Growing up in the Philippines, as a child, we were taught by our elders that, when we knock on someone's door, we say in a respectful tone, “Tao po,” which literally translates to person, to announce your presence and that you're looking for someone my peers and I always thought this meant something along the lines of like, “Is anyone home?” Recently, however, I realized this wasn't the case. I remember there was one evening a few years back. It was raining lightly and we were about to go to bed when I heard someone knocking at our front gate. It was a few light taps, but I can make out the distinct sound of someone knocking on the metal gate. We had a doorbell at the far right end, but it wouldn't have been the first time a visitor didn't notice it. Perhaps, the person was stopping by our house for the first time and, in the dark of the night and the light rain, they didn't get to look upward and locate our doorbell. It was certainly possible. I went out of my room and my dad asked where I was going. When I said, “To check who's at the door,” he stopped me and said he didn't hear anything and told me to go back to sleep.”
Eric: Hmm.
Amanda: “I went back to my room and heard the knocking again. A few light taps. Not really full knocks, but it was persistent. I was worried that whoever was out there might not even have an umbrella. So, I stepped out again and this time called out to my dad, “Do you hear that? Someone's been knocking at the gate.” He insisted there wasn't anybody outside. My sister and mom were already asleep. So, I couldn't ask anyone else to back me up on this. It happened at least a few more times. The taps on the gate followed by five to 10 minutes of silence and me going back out of my room and telling my dad until I finally accepted that, “Okay. I guess, nobody really is out there,” and decided to go to sleep.” Side note, I think five to 10 minutes is the exact creepiest interval that there could be between knocks.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: It's like too short for someone to, like, leave and come back, but far too long for someone who's just human, you know, to be standing there and being like—
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: “Hey, please let me in. I'm still here.”
Julia: It's a suspicious amount of time.
Eric: Yeah, it's just like one of those things where it's like, “Okay. If it goes away and never comes back, it's fine.” But, also, like, if it just keeps happening, like, it must just be, like, the wind or something.
Amanda: A branch. Yeah.
Eric: Just coming and going. No good. No good at all.
Julia: Hmm. Hmm.
Amanda: “While in bed, though, I still kept hearing the knocking sounds until about an hour passed and then it finally stopped. A few days ago, I was working from home near a window which faces our neighbor's house. A delivery boy was knocking on their door shouting, “Tao po. Tao po,” asking if anyone was home. I knew that they had gone out for some errands that morning and told the delivery boy there was no one home. We came to an arrangement where I'd accept their package, and disinfected it, of course, and hand it to our neighbors when they reached home. Later, my dad noted with some amusement that Tao po isn't really a question asking if there's a person home. It isn't even a question. The upward tone in people's voices just makes it sound like one, particularly, when we try to make ourselves sound pleasant. Rather, it's a statement that the person knocking is a human and not an engkanto or malignant spirit. The superstition dates back to the pre-Hispanic era when some indigenous Filipino communities lived in wooded areas and believe that announcing one's mortal identity meant they weren't harmful spirit or wild animal. That made me remember the knocking sounds I'd heard years ago and my dad casually admitted that, yes, he had heard them and was lying. He didn't want to open it, both as a result of superstition and because it was late and didn't just want to go in the rain and answer the door. Besides, he reasons, if it was urgent enough to last an hour, they would have located the doorbell by then.”
Julia: Hmm. That's true.
Amanda: “On a more tangible level, though – this is the meta part of the story that I loved – the tao po conundrum is also sort of consistent with a problem we face here in the Philippines of the current drug wars. Suspected drug users are usually visited by police at night and anecdotes claim that police never say tao po when visiting homes. Sometimes’ they burst through the doors and then use violence, plant evidence, whatever might happen, and justify their brutality. This absence of a tao po element in police operations, to us, sort of ties back into dissatisfaction with the drug war and equates the corrupt institution of police force with the harmful engkanto who can harm, curse, and kill unassuming mortals.”
Julia: Damn.
Amanda: “I hope you can include us in your urban legends someday. Thanks for the work you do, Spirits Team.”
Julia: I do really like when spirits are kind of bound by politeness.
Eric: Yeah, like vampires.
Julia: Yeah, exactly. Vampires are a classic example.
Eric: You can’t come in.
Julia: You can't come in. You can’t come in. But, like, in this case, it is the humans who have to be bound by the politeness and the spirits are just being rude. And that's how you know that they're spirits. I like that a lot. That's very cool.
Amanda: Yeah, there's, like, a level of, not even honesty, but just, like, straightforwardness where, like, the spirit can't claim to be human and that’s sort of, like, the one rule. I love all of the kind of logical ends of the stories that we tease out in mythology of, you know, they would be able to do anything. But, for this one, limitation. And, in this case, I think it's so cool. I know I say and do so many things in my life and I'm like, “Why do we even do this?” And learning the origins of that kind of thing, I think, is just always so fascinating. So, Spud, thank you for writing in.
Julia: Yeah, that's also a classic fae thing, too. Like, the fae can't lie. They can tell untruths, but they can't straight out lie. So, I think that's another cool example of this.
Amanda: Unlike the police. Julie, what do you have for us?
Eric: Before we get to Julia, sort of real quick—
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Eric: Not that we're keeping score, but I do want to put one tally on the board for Team Ignorant. Dad was Team Ignorant and everything turned out just fine.
Julia: Hey, your story literally had a person kill their ghost.
Amanda: [laughs]
Julia: So, I would say that is the opposite of Team Ignorant.
Amanda: I know. That was full confrontation.
Eric: But the, once again – once again, I’m very clear about this. If the thing is there and unignorable, there's a different path that you go down. Hooded figure in your room, unignorable. Weird tapping outside, very ignorable.
Julia: You can ignore. There are plenty of stories that our listeners have sent in where it's like, “Yeah, I saw a figure in my room. So, I just, like, figured I'd ignore it and turned over and went back to sleep.”
Eric: And, and, if you go back to the tapes, I never say, “Ignore that.” I never say it.
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: That was the original Team Ignorant story, where it's like, “Something's happening in my room,” rolled over, went back to sleep.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: Well, the theory – the theory, like all good science, has evolved over time.
Julia: Yeah, that’s what I figured you're gonna say.
Amanda: Okay. Okay.
Julia: Well, I have a story about someone who accidentally created a ghost. Would you like to hear about that?
Amanda: Hell yeah.
Julia: This comes in from Flyer Pi and she writes, “I have been working with a local community theater in my area for the last 18 years, since the beginning really.
Eric: Definitely wasn't expecting local area community theater to be what they were working with.
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Eric: I was like, “A local psychic or a medium. No, local community theater.”
Amanda: As we know, nothing more superstitious than theater people. So—
Eric: I, I mean that's true. That's – I guess, yeah, good point.
Julia: Yeah. So, we started performing out on the streets and in small spaces around town. And, when we decided to go looking for a building, much like the other community theater, ours came used. Our building started its life many decades ago as a library. When the new library was built, the old one sat empty for several years before our theater took it over and renovated the indoors. For the most part, the structure remained the same. It was built to last and we had no desire to knock down cinderblock walls. I should pause here to say I don't really believe in ghosts, but theaters are supposed to have ghosts. It's good luck, right? As a result, every time I heard the clicking of the rafters expanding in the house right corner of the theater, I would proclaim, “Oh, that's just the ghost.” That was all there was to it for many seasons. Then came 2016 and our production of the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee.” Very good show.
Amanda: Oh, my god, what a haunted show also.
Julia: [chuckles] It was a dark and stormy night. No, really, it was pouring outside and we were having electrical storms. During our rehearsal, I noticed that the stage lights came up full wash and, a little later, they were turned off again. It happened several times throughout the night. I made an assumption that our tech crew was doing some sort of light checks, but I was wrong. When we finished rehearsal and we're sitting scattered all over the stage getting our notes before departing in the rain, the lights came up full again and the director made a comment. I made my usual, “Oh, that's just a ghost” remark and she freaked out. Apparently, she does believe in ghosts. I took my cue and played it up real big saying how you could hear her walking around the rafters house right all the time and saying that she likes to run around up there late at night, all true statements. It was at this point that I decided that our ghost was a woman. The light started to have a little more fun at that point until we left for the night popping on and off again and lighting various parts of the stage. It was great fun for me to watch the director cringe every time it happened. So, just being a real troll here.”
Amanda: Spoken like somebody who's really secure in their job and I've never felt that.
Julia: “Now, it is a good time to point out that I am a diva. I am happy to act, sometimes, direct, but I don't do tech. And, frankly, I shouldn't be trusted with electronics anyway. That's a whole other story.”
Amanda: Oh, my god, I should have known this is an actor. Like, no shade.
Julia: Of course, it was.
Amanda: But this is not a techie speaking. No, I should have known.
Julia: “With that said, I had been taught where the dimmers were and how to shut down the light boards for the night. And I assumed that they had not been shut down properly the last time they were used and that the electrical storm was creating power surges. I was wrong. I checked everything at the end of the night boards, dimmers, masters, even the fuses. Everything was shut down as if our technical director himself had done it, which is to say properly. Now, I had a dilemma because this fictitious ghosts that I had created, the one I was saying that was running around in the rafters and attributed these electrical anomalies to, might actually be real. But I mean I don't believe in ghosts so I decided to play it up some more. So, I gave her a name. A few years later, we gained a new tech who had a preference for late night work sessions. I warned her about Eleanor – because, apparently, that's the new name of the ghost – running around in the rafters and told her Eleanor is harmless. And she said, “Oh, yes, we've met. She really likes to play with the electricity, doesn't she?” Now, my warning had been tongue in cheek. I was not expecting this response. So, I asked how she knew. Apparently, Eleanor like to unplug things. The tech would be working with the light board and, suddenly, her desk lamp would go out. Turning around, she would find that the plug was just lying on the floor. After plugging it back in several times, she told the ghost to cut it out. Miraculously, the light remained on for the rest of the night. Now, when she works late nights, she greets Eleanor by name, asks her how her day was, and tells her to behave. We've decided that she's a young girl, maybe eight or nine years old, and a bit of a scam when it comes to electricity. So, we decided this means that she lived in a time before there was electricity, which I love the reasoning behind.”
Amanda: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Julia: That is extremely cool. Love this. It’s like, “Oh, the pretty lights,” and then keeps plugging them in and out. Love it.
Amanda: Spoken like an actor, Eleanor.
Julia: “So, last year, after 15 seasons in our building, we finally replaced the free theater seats that we had been given in our first season. To offset the cost, we sold seat sponsorships and placed a golden plaque on the armrest to indicate which seats belong to which sponsors. I still don't believe in ghosts. But, just in case, I bought Eleanor her own seat. Top row, house right. It's our favorite spot in the building. That also happens to be the least likely seat to sell during a regular performance. So, it, oftentimes, sits empty. Or is it?”
Amanda: Oh.
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: “I hope you've enjoyed this fun little bit of our theatres history. I might not believe in ghosts, but I do believe that Eleanor is 100 percent real.”
Amanda: That is adorable.
Julia: [chuckles]
Amanda: I love that method of accommodating, placating, and inviting a ghost into your theater. But, I agree, all theater should have a ghost and you might as well – I don't know – manifest the ghosts you want to see in the world. And it's somebody who is sweet and enjoys playing and, you know, occasionally, creeks in your rafters. That's pretty okay as far as ghosts go.
Julia: Mhmm. Mhmm. It was very cute. Very sweet. I love Eleanor. They are my new favorite ghosts.
Eric: Yeah, I would say – I would say very good ghost. I love that.
Julia: Quality ghost.
Amanda: Also, reminds me of opening our senior musical, Hello Dolly, which we opened in springtime, which, in, in New York, it’s the tail end of – or beginning of hurricane season, one of the two. And there was a monsoon the day we opened. Lost power in the school for a good five to six hours and focused all the lights by hand. No power. Just guessing. And, and open the musical on time nonetheless. So, listen, everybody, if you did high school theater, or sports, or AV club, or whatever and you overcame ridiculous budgetary situations and had to manage dozens of other unruly teens, you can do pretty much anything professionally. It's, it's all probably easier than that.
Eric: Theater kids are the most hard kids just period in high school.
Julia: Very hardcore.
Eric: I mean, like, like, let's, let's talk – you're, you're adjusting lights presumably in the dark due to the fact that there was no electricity, which, one, just probably shouldn't have happened for legal reasons, but, also, like is very impressive nonetheless.
Amanda: Yeah, 18 feet in the air.
Eric: Also, just, like, so many power tools.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: So much set building.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: I mean, by the end of, like, four years in, like, crew or theater, you practically can build a house, I assume.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Probably not like a great house, but, like, probably pretty decent house.
Julia: I can build a tiny home. I feel confident about that.
Amanda: Yeah, I know. Me too. And I mean, Julia, has like paper mâchéd a student’s head without suffocating them, has made edible blood that didn't poison anyone.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: You know, that's basically a doctor.
Julia: Edible blood, very easy to make.
Amanda: It’s very, very tasty.
Julia: Corn syrup, corn starch, red food dye, and chocolate syrup. That’s all you need.
Amanda: Julia, one of my most favorite memories of you after a lifetime of knowing each other is watching you lick chocolate syrup blood off your finger in front of freshmen and them screaming.
Julia: Yep.
Amanda: And it was just – ah, I love it. I love you.
Julia: [chuckles]
Amanda: All right, guys. After all that wonderful reminiscing, I think we need to refill. You ready?
Julia: Yeah, let's go.
Amanda: Let's go.
Midroll Music
Amanda: Sometimes, I feel like just a sleepy baby.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: I want to go to bed, but it's hard. And I'm just a sleepy baby and I want to yell about it. And any disruption to my routine makes it harder for me to sleep such as – I just switched over to my summer weight sheets, which are lovely, but it's just different. And, so, like a sleepy baby, I'm just like, “I can't fall asleep on these.” And, so, I turn to one of my most calming apps. It's Calm. And that helped me to, you know, focus, to think, to listen to some lovely soundscapes. Just put my mind on something that is not my own brain. And it's also designed to help me sleep. So, the volume is lovely. It's not shocking. It doesn't jar me awake. It’s just such a happy, comforting, helpful, like, friend to have in my pocket. And, if you want to meet my friend Calm in my pocket and can be in yours, you can go to calm.com/spirits. For listeners of this show, Calm is offering a special limited time promotion of 40 percent off a Calm premium subscription. Go to C-A-L-M.C-O-M/spirits for 40 percent off unlimited access to Calm’s entire library. That is calm.com/spirits.
Julia: So, Amanda, I was out and about doing some socially distance shopping at my favorite vintage store this weekend. And I found a top that was just incredible. Like, I was like, “Yes, excellent. I love this.” And I looked at it and, like, the only problem is, “Oh, god, I'm gonna need to wear a strapless bra in order to wear this.”
Amanda: Shakes fist at sky.
Julia: But then I remembered, Amanda, that I’d picked up a strapless bra that was the most comfortable bra that I've ever worn from ThirdLove. Now, ThirdLove lets you take a fitting room quiz, which is like a personal shopper for your boobs. And it asks you questions about, like, the size of your breasts, your breast shape, the current fit issues that you have, which is my strapless bra’s always slip off and I hate that, but not my ThirdLove one. And it asks for your personal style. And then it delivers on bras and underwear that are perfect for you. And, honestly, I'm breaking up with all of my bad bras. Now, I am going to only things that work well for me and that is absolutely ThirdLove bras. My boobs deserve this. So, ThirdLove is changing the game when it comes to comfort and style in your everyday essentials. They have loungewear. They have wireless styles. And they have this one that I'm absolutely in love with, which is their number one rated 24/7 classic t-shirt bra. It is the ultimate comfort experience. And ThirdLove knows that, just like my new strapless bra, that there is a true fit out there for everyone. So, right now, they are offering our listeners 20 percent off your first order. So, go to thirdlove.com/spirits now to find your perfect fitting bra and get 20 percent off your first purchase. That is thirdlove.com/spirits for 20 percent off today.
Amanda: This episode is sponsored by Bright Cellars, which, Julia, I think might have made me into a wine person.
Julia: Whoa.
Amanda: Because, when I try to buy wine, whether it's online or in a store, I just feel like I don't know enough to even be there. And I choose it by the labels. Or I choose it by the country. Or I walk in and grab whatever's on sale and then scurry away before they can tell that I don't know anything about wine. And, like, I have opinions. I have favorite flavors. I just don't know how to translate that into wine.
Julia: Well, Amanda, thankfully you and I have subscribed to Bright Cellars, which is a wine subscription service that lets you skip the store. And it brings amazing wines matched to your tastes right to your door. You take a seven-question quiz, which takes about, like, 30 seconds. And then Bright Cellars uses an algorithm to pair you with wines that are based on your personal preferences. And they absolutely nailed it for me. Like, seriously, they sent me some wines I'd never even heard of before. I don't know what a Petit Verdot is, but I love it. I love it now. I just do.
Amanda: Yeah, I had an Avast. It's a white blend from Western Cape, South Africa. And it tasted like pear cider. It was incredible.
Julia: That sounds really, really good. I also really love that they send these wine education cards with each bottle. It tells you the tasting notes. It tells you suggested pairings, best serving temperature, and, like, origin of the wine itself. And, seriously, it's like having a personal sommelier come to my house and be like, “And here is the Petit Verdot. And it was from this region and has these notes.” And I'm like, “Yes, that is how I'm going to decide which one I wanted to drink first.”
Amanda: It is fantastic. And, even better, we have a really great offer for you. Bright Cellars is giving Spirits listeners an exclusive 50 percent off your first six bottle box of wines. Just go to brightcellars.com/spirits. That's brightcellars.com/spirits for 50 percent off your first six bottle box. And, now, let's get back to the show.
Eric: I don't think I mentioned this to you all in, it the Slack, but we lost power again in the exact same part of the house again.
Amanda: Oh no.
Julia: No. Oh, no.
Eric: And it turns out that it was the exact same problem as before. And, like, I don't know if the wire just came loose again or if the electrician was bad and, like, didn't do a good job or whatever. But this time it took two electricians, including one guy that just was like, “I don't know what the problem is.” It turns out it was the problem – I told him what it was. So, the second electrician was like, “No, it was – it’s the same thing it seems like.’ So, still not a haunted house.
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: Just some – a little bit faulty wiring going on.
Julia: We can't say for certain.
Eric: But, more importantly, what was I drinking while I didn't have all this power in the second floor of the house?
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: It’s a great question.
Eric: Like, I was just stressed. I was like, “How am I gonna get through this?” I broke open a can – now, in cans – Zombie Dust from 3 Floyds Brewing.
Julia: Ooh.
Amanda: Ooh.
Eric: Zombie doesn't is one of the best APAs ever in my opinion. It's very, very good. It used to be very hard to get. It used to be like, if you could find it in Cleveland, it was, like, a treat. Now, they just have it in cans and I can pick it up at, like, multiple stores.
Julia: Nice.
Eric: So, if you can find some, I highly recommend Zombie Dust.
Julia: Amanda, I went to a offshoot of 3’s Brewing that's out here in Long Island, which I didn't realize.
Amanda: What?
Julia: Yeah, it’s out in Huntington. It's very cute.
Eric: Four’s Brewing.
Julia: [chuckles]
Amanda: Oh, adorable.
Julia: They carry stuff other than their own beers. And I picked up this one that was from a company called Mountains Walking Brewery, which is out in Montana, I believe. And I picked up this one. It was called Their Sweets Collection, which I was a little hesitant about because I don't like super sweet beers, but this was a fruited kettle sour beer that was made with strawberry, blackberry, and marshmallow. And it tastes exactly like a fruit smoothie—
Amanda: Whoa.
Julia: —with, like, the same consistency but, like, a little bit more sour. It was incredible.
Amanda: Wow. Well, we're on the same wavelength, Julia, because I went to a new brewery – a woman-owned brewery that opened in our neighborhood recently called to Talea. And it is absolutely – it's like millennial pink and it looks like a sort of, like, Palm Springs Resort—
Julia: Hell yeah.
Amanda: —which, on the one hand, I'm like, “I hate it.” On the other hand, I'm like, “I love it. This is for me.” So, apart from the branding, the beers are really good. And they specialize in fruity sours and goses. So, I had a gose-style sour ale called Passion Punch, which is tart and dry brewed with pink guava, passionfruit, and mango, and salt. And it was absolutely delicious. You would love every beer they have. So, listen, my immune system is rising like Christ. So, as soon as yours catches up, we got to go over there and check it out.
Julia: Middle of May. We’ll go in middle of May.
Amanda: I am extremely excited. It's great stuff.
Julia: Great.
Amanda: Talea.
Eric: Well, I've got a story that piqued my interest. I don't think it's related to our building canon on the man with the dog.
Julia: Okay.
Eric: But the title did intrigue me. And it is about the man in snow pants with a dog.
Julia: Hmm. [chuckles] A little bit different.
Eric: So, maybe it was just a bit cold for this day that he came out. That's the situation.
Julia: I don't find snow pants too intimidating. So, I can't say that this is quite the canon, but I’ll – I’ll listen.
Eric: They're too puffy. They're too puffy to be scary.
Julia: They're too puffy. And they're also – like, you can't approach silently with snow pants on.
Eric: [chuckles]
Amanda: Oh, yeah. You got – you just crinkle your way up to somebody, which, I guess, could be terrifying. But, mostly, I find it fucking adorable.
Julia: If I didn't know what, what the sound was, probably terrifying. Sure.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: I think it’s important enough that, as soon as I said snow pants, Amanda started rubbing her hands together—
Julia: [laughs]
Amanda: [laughs]
Eric: —to, to, to visually show us the sound of snow pants—
Amanda: Crinkle. Crinkle. Crinkle.
Eric: —which is very funny. So, this comes to us from Ottodark and he writes, “I have a legend from my hometown in Utah that haunted me in my childhood.”
Julia: Whoa.
Eric: “I would sometimes see footprints in the snow across the walk in front of my house. The snow prints started on one side of the walk and just vanished as they left the other. The footprints weren't anywhere on the lawn or anywhere else, just on the walk. I assume, in Utah, they refer to the sidewalk as the walk.”
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Eric: It’s very like hip, the walk. “Just looking at the footprints made me feel uneasy and cold. The footprints only appeared if I was asked to shovel the sidewalk and neglected to do so.”
Julia: Guilting you into doing your chores.
Eric: [chuckles] It's like a ghost that haunts you when you don't pick up the trash.
Julia: [laughs]
Eric: “I felt unnaturally cold all through the day and night. I couldn't get warm no matter what I did. Whenever I shoveled the walk when asked, my mom would make me hot chocolate at night with no mention of the walkway.”
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: “I asked my parents about it and they told me about a man up in the mountains who trudged through there with his black dog.”
Amanda: Crinkle, crinkle, crinkle.
Julia: [laughs] Crinkle, crinkle, crinkle.
Eric: [laughs] “The man was so cold as his coat had holes. The man and his dog died.”
Julia: Oh, no.
Amanda: Oh, I take it back. I take it back.
Julia: [laughs]
Amanda: [laughs] Oh, no.
Eric: I’m trying to find a better way to say that.
Julia: [laughs] The man and his dog died.
Eric: “His spirit was tethered to his hometown and he despised the snow. The man would trudge through the neighborhood and across snowy walkways that should have been shoveled every night. If the walkway wasn't shoveled, the man would curse whoever was responsible with a deep chill.”
Julia: Ooh.
Eric: “If it was shoveled, the person responsible would be blessed with good luck for the rest of their day.”
Julia: Okay.
Amanda: This is such a, like, civic responsibility myth.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: I was gonna say.
Amanda: I don't know if the person writing in is Mormon, but, at the very minimum, this is Utah and I cannot think of anything more Mormon from my outsider understanding than myths to, like, further facilitate civic responsibility and, like, interdependentness.
Eric: I like the idea of, like, the mayor being like, “We need to find a way to get the sidewalks shoveled or, or that we have in the past.”
Amanda: [laughs]
Julia: What if we intimidate some children?
Eric: Get the intern that likes spooky stuff on the case, create an urban legend about a guy up in the mountain.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: And, now, the kids will all shovel their driveways.
Julia: That’s me working for local government. I got you.
Amanda: Let's get, like, light guilt and pretty substantial, like, immediate cosmic reward. Suddenly, no need for robust social services, and infrastructure, and plowing and shoveling of all sidewalks. We got this covered.
Eric: Exactly. “This would be the end of the story. And I would have thought it was just my parents changing the thermostat and giving me hot chocolate if I hadn't seen the man in the snow pants with a dog.”
Amanda: Has it been enough since the original guy died that I could say crinkle, crinkle again or too soon?
Julia: Crinkle, crinkle.
Eric: You can say it. [laughs]
Julia: [laughs]
Amanda: Crinkle, crinkle.
Eric: “It was late at night and I was starving. I went downstairs to get a snack. The blinds on the kitchen windows were open and the porch light was on. As I was chomping down on some cheddar slices – excellent late night snack, by the way—
Julia: Good choice.
Eric: —I glanced out the window to see a dark figure outside slowly walking across the lawn. The man wore snow pants and—
Julia: Your lawn? Oh, no.
Amanda: Oh, man, too close.
Julia: Not at night.
Amanda: Too close.
Julia: Too close to the house.
Eric: He wore snow pants and had a large puffy coat with holes where the stuffing was coming out.”
Julia: Oh, no.
Eric: “He held a rope in his hands like a leash for a dog. I shuddered as soon as I saw him. And, when I blinked, he was gone.”
Julia: Uh-oh.
Eric: “That night, I didn't sleep.”
Julia: I wouldn't either.
Eric: Not so sure.
Amanda: Wow. Okay. I mean probably, in reality, it is creepier if there was no sound because that would, you know, be more about a ghost than an apparition.
Eric: True.
Amanda: If I were you, I think you can leave out a box of, like, nice supplies in case it was somebody who needs them. And, if they're untouched, you knew it was a ghost.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: Hmm. As someone who now has, has, has a, a walk to take care of, sometimes, I am out there – not, not maybe in the middle of the night, but I have gotten up quite early and snow plowed quite late on some nights. So, it is just possible. I mean he was in your yard. So, that's not great. But I mean, sometimes, you got to get the chores done when you got the time.
Julia: This is big Yuki-onna energy, which I really appreciate.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Eric: Hmm. Yes.
Julia: Because I like the kind of trends literation of different stories that we see in different cultures being like, “Oh, now, it's in the United States. And it's a guy with a dog.” And we're like, “Oh, okay.”
Amanda: Mhmm. Totally. Well, speaking of origins of, of interesting myths and sayings, I have another variation on a similar theme. This comes from Urdr from Iceland, she/her, who writes about the myth of Sæmundr fróði.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: She writes, “Hey, I'm from Iceland. And we have so many urban legends, which are almost treated more like history and fact here in our country. My favorite are the stories of Sæmundr fróði. My aunt used to babysit me a lot and she always read me stories of him. So, Sæmundr fróði is a huge historical figure here in Iceland. There's even a statue of him in front of the University of Iceland. He did actually exist and was a scholar. But, in Icelandic folklore, he's also this incredibly awesome dude who repeatedly manages to trick kolski, the devil, into doing his bidding. The most famous story is when Sæmundr went to the Black School to study the Dark Arts in Ancient History.”
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: “The school is underground and completely dark inside. And those who attended the school were not allowed to go out and see the sunlight for their entire stay, three years. Also, all the books were written in, like, fire red ink you could see in the dark, which is super cool.”
Julia: Tumblr and the internet really likes the aesthetic of Dark Academia. And, when I hear this, this is what I think of.
Amanda: This is real like Mephistopheles as gay icon imagery and energy that I'm, I’m super here for.
Julia: Sure.
Amanda: “So, everyone knew that the devil was the headmaster of the school. And the rule – that was a great sentence. And the rule was the last one to walk out of the school would forever belong to the devil. Everybody was super scared about this except Sæmundr, who decided he was going to be the one to go last. When the school ended and everyone walked out, Sæmundr decided to walk, like, directly in the sunlight. And, when the devil tried to claim him, he said, “Hey, I'm not the last one out and pointed to his shadow.” So, the devil grabbed his shadow and Sæmundr ran off the door slamming on his heels. After this, they say the devil claimed the shadow, leaving Sæmundr without one for the rest of his life.”
Julia: Whoa.
Amanda: A fun fact about the story, after the door slams shut behind Sæmundr, he says an Icelandic phrase which translates to the door slammed pretty close to my heels. And, ever since, it's been used and, to this day, is a saying meaning that was close.”
Julia: I love that. Also, couldn't everyone have just like – or, at least, two people have been like, “All right. On the count of three, we're both gonna step out at the same time so he can't claim both of us because the rules.”
Amanda: Yeah. Or leave behind, like, a really misbehaving dog or, like, a rat or something. Yeah, they don't say it has to be human.
Julia: That's like that bridge where it's like, “Oh, well, the first creature to cross this bridge, the devil gets to claim it.” And then it was a dog and the devil – the devil was like, “I don’t want this dog.”
Amanda: Exactly. And everybody lives, and the dogs happy, and Amanda shocked.
Julia: [chuckles]
Amanda: There are tons more stories about Sæmundr. Like, the one time kolski was super mad at him and put, like, a huge amount of horseshit in front of Sæmundr’s church. And, sometimes, Sæmundr manages to trick kolski into licking all the shit up off the ground.
Julia: Gross.
Eric: Ooh.
Amanda: There's another very well-known one in which Sæmundr tries to trick him into turning into a seal and carry him back to Iceland, which I think we have touched on in a previous urban legends episode. When they get close to shore, he manages to get away by knocking the seal out with a Bible.
Julia: [chuckles] Sure.
Eric: Nice.
Amanda: The statue in front of the university is actually him—
Eric: There we go.
Amanda: —doing exactly that. So, right now, guys, I am going to try to pull up University of Iceland, Sæmundr.
Julia: Sorry. The statue is of him hitting the devil with a Bible?
Amanda: Oh, it sure is. Oh, yeah.
Julia: Incredible. Please send us the link.
Eric: Oh, my god.
Julia: Oh, my goodness. Look at that.
Eric: Y'all, this will be linked in our bonus Patreon posts with all of our director's commentary bonus stuff. So, if you join the Patreon at the $2 level, you will see this picture. And, if you don't do that, you probably just search it on Google. So—
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Google University of Iceland seal statue. Incredible. There's also, by the way, a, an iceberg that looks kind of like the statue and people are super into it.
Julia: Oh, classic.
Amanda: Oh, wait, here's a – sorry, here's just one more. It's a great little zoom in situation. Aah.
Julia: Aah. Ooh.
Amanda: There it is. [laughs]
Julia: Okay.
Eric: Hmm. Yes. Oh, wow. That's very nice.
Julia: It's very brutalist in its angles, which I appreciate.
Amanda: It is. Yeah. No, it's, it's beautiful. And then, just to wrap up Urdr says, “Iceland has a ton of myths and superstitions. I really love Icelandic folklore. I mean I'm named after one of the norns in Norse mythology. How can I not?”
Julia: I did recognize that name.
Amanda: So, did you know, for instance, that, like, 60 percent of Icelanders believe in elves and hidden people. It's so big here that, when they build roads and stuff, they make sure to keep them a good distance away from known elf hills and cliffs so they don't disturb them. You also talked about kelpies in a previous episode and we have something similar called a nykur. And, instead of having sticky fur, its back gets longer and longer for each child that wants to ride it. Then drowns them all.
Julia: Yeah, it sounds sweet until you get to the drowning them all part. That's when it’s like—
Amanda: It does. And then, finally – I, I need this, which is extremely cool – the language, Icelandic, is so consistent to how it was when it was first developed so that people can still read Ancient Norse runes and texts because the language is so similar. And they do it very often in school. So fucking awesome, Iceland. Thank you. Thank you, Urdr. And, if you have more dope Icelandic legends, anybody, I would love to hear them.
Julia: Hell yeah. Okay. So, for our last story, this is not a listener submitted story, but I did come across this post on Reddit that I need to share with you all because—
Amanda: Ooh.
Eric: Oh, right. I forgot that you had a Reddit post for us.
Julia: I just – I have so many thoughts and questions. And I feel like this is gonna be a great discussion for us. So, here we go.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: So, the title of this is, “Is there such thing as a ghost gamer?”
Amanda: Hmm.
Eric: Okay. Well, what's up? Where is it from?
Julia: It is from the paranormal Subreddit.
Eric: Oh, okay.
Amanda: Okay. So, a conversation in good faith. Yeah.
Eric: I mean it’s very important. If it was from, like, gaming circle jerk, then, like—
Julia: No. No.
Eric: —I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt.
Julia: It is R/Paranormal.
Eric: Great. Okay.
Amanda: Yeah, this is like good faith, like, community question is my – is my vibe.
Julia: Okay. So, first of all, I'm not really the paranormal activity type. Though, I do read a lot about things like that, I'm always skeptical to say the least. But something strange has been happening recently that I thought I'd share.
Eric: In my neighborhood.
Julia: It's a long story and the finer details aren't important. But, since the pandemic started, I temporarily moved back in with my parents who are both in their 70s. I'm in my 40s. I'm in my old childhood bedroom until vaccinations and everything else make it more sensible to travel again. Their house is fairly old. It was built in 1912. None of my family has ever experienced anything completely unexplainable there as far as I know. But, when I was a kid, my parents did say they'd occasionally see someone walk past one of the windows towards the front of the porch. But then the person would never show up, or knock, or ring the doorbell. And even I saw what looked like a man walk past the window from time to time, but that window is next to the road and reflections from passing car windows and mirrors can shine into it sometimes. So, I always chalked it up to my brain playing tricks on me the few times that it occurred. But all that's just setup. Something has happened a few times in the past year, which reminded me of an identical incident as a child that I was never able to explain. The other night, I turned off my light and crawled into bed. The moment I pulled the covers up, it sounded like someone was furiously pressing buttons on my PlayStation 3 controller and fiddling with the control sticks across the room. I just froze listening to the sound, but it was unmistakable and stopped after a few seconds. And this is, at least, the fourth time since I've been back here that that's happened. I usually just shove the controller into a drawer out of sight and it never happens. But, any time I leave it out in the open for long stretches, it seems to inevitably happen again. As I said, this is my parents’ place. And, since this started happening, it brought me back to the 90s, the last time I was living here. Back then, in the same room, the same thing would happen with my Super Nintendo from time to time.
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: Back then, I just passed it off as an old house shifting and creaking even though the sounds were distinctly plastic clicks. But, now that I've been back here for almost a year again and have experienced it with fresh ears, I don't know what to make of it. I've never gotten any strange or menacing sensations here. I haven't actually seen anything either. The only thing close to a sighting is my parents’ cat will occasionally sit in the hallway and stare into another room sometimes when no one's there. But I, I have actively ignored this late night ghost gaming. I basically decided that the typical Gen X apathy and disinterest might do something in my favor. If I don't give it attention, it won't escalate. Each time it's happened, my only response has been to put my earphones back in in bed, and listen to music, and make that my routine for weeks after it happened.
Amanda: Fascinating.
Julia: So, clearly, a Team Ignorant fan here.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So, ghost gamers.
Eric: So, ghost gamers. So, important details that we've gathered, it's currently happening with a, a DualSense 3 – PlayStation 3 controller.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: And then, previously, it happened with a classic Super Nintendo controller.
Julia: Super Nintendo. Yes.
Eric: That is – I don't know where that gets us.
Amanda: I was gonna say, “What does that tell you?”
Eric: But I don't love the DualSense. Yeah, I thought it was a bad controller. So, there’s that. If the console is not turning on, that's important.
Julia: Mhmm.
Eric: Because, now, we've just got buttons being pressed for no reason, which is not very beneficial.
Julia: Have you considered that maybe—
Eric: Hmm.
Julia: —the ghost is playing ghost games that can only be seen by the ghost.
Amanda: There it is.
Eric: Ghost games.
Julia: Ghosh game.
Eric: A special signal coming off the TV.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: Yeah.
Eric: Maybe it's like the games that got canceled and never released.
Julia: Ooh, interesting.
Eric: They’re dead games.
Julia: Ooh.
Amanda: Ooh. Maybe. Moving into our kind of theory of hauntings in general, maybe the, the vibes of, like, particularly good or bad runs persist.
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: Hmm.
Amanda: And the ghost can replay the hits or try to save themselves from previous, you know, epic fails.
Eric: [laughs]
Julia: They rage quit so hard that it made it made a ghost.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: In racing games, when you're doing time trials and you're racing against yourself, you're racing against a ghost.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: Ooh.
Eric: So, that’s, that is a ghost right there.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: There we go.
Eric: So, I mean that – I don't know. I can't think of a Super Nintendo game that had ghost racers. Like, the Mario Kart on there didn't, but it's very possible that they're playing some kind of racing game. And they're racing against – a ghost racing against a literal ghost. Maybe the ghosts racing against the humans if there's like – the ghosts as in a half invisible car and they’re racing against the fully opaque cars.
Julia: What is game a AI if not ghost in machine?
Eric: Mhmm.
Amanda: Quite true. Perhaps even this ghost is the ghost in the time trial against somebody else at that time in a different location.
Julia: Aah.
Eric: There you go.
Amanda: Have we thought about it? Possible.
Eric: Yeah.
Julia: Very possible. Very possible. Maybe it's just the ghost of outdated systems. Because, at this point, the PS3 is two systems behind.
Eric: It's quite outdated. Yeah. And most of those games are on the PS4 at this point.
Amanda: Or have we circle back around the classic? And you have the most in-demand hot commodity, like, conduit to the spirit world where ghosts can play their ghostly games, their unreleased games, their nostalgia edition games, their, you know, readapted, reimagined for a new console, but it was such a strong dream of individual developer that never got the budget for it. And, so, then it, it manifested in the ghost world. And maybe your controller is the conduit to all that.
Julia: I think every video game that had a ghost in it now has a ghost attached to it. Luigi’s Mansion, a lot of ghosts.
Eric: A lot of ghosts.
Amanda: Ooh. I mean have we considered, like, maybe there are repercussions to deaths in video games that we have never taken responsibility for as a society?
Julia: Wow.
Amanda: I mean I'm just saying. Maybe, every time you, you lose a life in a video game, you spawn a ghost.
Eric: Also, the PS3 had that weird cell processor. We never really understood what that was all about. Had a weird processor that made it very hard to make games on the PS3.
Julia: Hmm.
Eric: Maybe because it was powered by ghost.
Julia: [gasps] [Inaudible 50:27].
Amanda: It's possible. Well, Julia, I feel like that was intriguing. And I'm going to be carrying it with me throughout the day. So, thank you.
Julia: I'm glad. I'm glad we can ponder about the ghosts of our video games now and whether ghosts could be gamers. Now, I'm just picturing like an 18th century ghost being like, “What is this? Oh, this small plumber is going to beat up to this large gorilla.”
Amanda: This sure beats Backgammon. Well, let us know if you have any games that you think in particular are mega super, duper haunted. I would love to know. For me, spirit fairer, obviously.
Julia: Absolutely. And remember, stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
Outro Music
Amanda: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
Julia: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website as well as a form to send us your urban legends at spiritspodcast.com.
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Julia: We are a founding member of Multitude, a collective of independent audio professionals. If you like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
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Julia: Thank you so much for listening. Till next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil