Episode 198: The Western Zodiac
/After making too many jokes about Virgo season, Julia is making it up to Amanda by giving her a tour of the Western Zodiac! We still know too much about Zeus’s love life, but we would buy from Castor & Pollux’s new clothing line if they advertised to us on Instagram.
Here’s the Mixology Astrology chart.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of sex, depression, abduction, sexual assault, murder/death, animal death, infancide, and attempted suicide.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz. Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Merch: Our new pins, digital coloring book, and posters are all for sale at http://spiritspodcast.com/merch!
Sponsors
- Skillshare is an online learning community where you can learn—and teach—just about anything. Visit skillshare.com/spirits2 to get two months of Skillshare Premium for free! This week Amanda recommends “Set Creative Goals” by Ohn Mar Win.
- Stitch Fix is an online personal styling service that finds and delivers clothes, shoes, and accessories to fit your body, budget, and lifestyle. Get started at stitchfix.com/spirits for 25% off when you keep your whole box!
- Calm is the #1 app to help you reduce your anxiety and stress and help you sleep better. Get 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at calm.com/spirits.
Find Us Online
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests’ books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books.
Tramscript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is Episode 198: The Western Zodiac.
Julia: Yeah, I'm very excited. This was one that was requested by someone in our Facebook group and I saw it. And I was like, “Oh, no, no. I'm not gonna post that. I'm gonna save it for my own private use.”
Amanda: I love it. I learned a lot during this episode. And I think that y'all are really going to enjoy it.
Julia: Yeah, I absolutely agree.
Amanda: We also super enjoy and are thankful for our supporting producer level patrons whose support makes this show possible; Philip, Uhleeseeuh, Debra, Hannah, Jen, Jessica, Keegan, Landon, Meaghan, Megan linger, Megan Moon, Molly, Mr. Folk, Neal, Niki, Phil Fresh, Polly, Riley, Sarah, and Skyla, along with our legend level patrons, to whom I get to send ever creepier and cooler presence each month; Audra, Chelsea, Clara, Drew, Eden, Frances, Jack Marie, Josie, Lada, Mark, Morgan, Necrofancy, Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty.
Julia: Yes. It’s because of y'all that we get to do this for our living, which is wild. I still can't believe that we get to do this as our job.
Amanda: It is very much, and lovely, and unexpected. And it is hard to make a living in podcasting, particularly if you have to rely on ads when advertisers can cancel or pandemic related decide not to, you know, run ads for months on end. So, the support we get from our patrons is truly what sustains us and makes us a viable living. So, thank you.
Julia: Now, Amanda, have you been, in your free time, listening to anything new, reading anything new, watching anything new?
Amanda: I sure have, Julia. I, at the recommendation of several very good Instagram accounts that I follow, have read an Indigenous People’s History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz.
Julia: Sounds awesome. Tell me more.
Amanda: It is incredible. It is all of the history of the US and the Americas in general that is not a, a colonialist narrative that we were taught in schools. And the knowledge, the writing, and the scholarship is all outstanding. And it was written to be quite, like, readable as well. So, this is not a situation where it's like you're reading a textbook. It is a absolutely essential read, I believe, for anybody living in the US.
Julia: That sounds great. I am going to reserve a copy with my library right now.
Amanda: And, Julia, after I finished that book this week, I turned to our inbox because we are getting some excellent questions and stories for our mailbag episode. This is the last week that you can submit urban legend follow up, episode follow up, personal stories of creepy stuff that's happened while you listen to spirits and questions of all kinds about podcasting, our lives, spirits, and what we're going to do next. So, please send that to spiritspodcasts@gmail.com or go to spiritspodcast.com to fill out our contact form. We're so stoked. And, for those of you who have send any questions already, thank you so much.
Julia: Yeah. And make sure that you label those emails mailbag so we can find them more easily.
Amanda: And then, finally, this week, we just wanted to let you know about some of the new fantastic merch that Multitude shows have for sale in our merch store. We have a fantastic new sticker for Join the Party. I play a character, who is the oldest of seven kids, only slightly more siblings than I have and recite their names all in a row quickly as anybody from a big family will understand. And, so, we made one of those, like, Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs shirts. You know, like with the ampersand of all of the siblings that my character, Aggie, has. So, that is there. Potterless has some new mugs that are just in store. And our pins – our gorgeous cocktail copper pins that we made in collaboration with Shaker & Spoon are in stock and available. We got an email the other week about holiday merch planning from DFTBA. So, this shit starts early y'all. And, if you want to get a jump on buying some fantastic gifts for people in your life and support a podcast that you love along the way, go to multitude.productions/merch to see all of the merch items from all of our shows.
Julia: I will say we're going into fall, which means it's denim jacket season which means you're ready to wear the perfect and most beautiful pins out there. And I do highly recommend those beautiful copper pins.
Amanda: That is multitude.productions/merch. So, without further ado, everybody enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 198: The Western Zodiac.
Intro Music
Julia: Amanda, I've noticed lately that things were really, really hectic the past month or so. But, once we got into September, things started, like, really winding down. Kind of everything seemed to ground itself a little bit around me, at least, in my personal life. And do you know why that is?
Amanda: I don't know. I mean something about getting into the fall. I look forward to sweater weather.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And that might be a good thing. But, you know, the baseline for events in chaos is just so much higher. But I'm glad you've experienced a little bit of a – of a calming recently.
Julia: Thank you. And you know what I attribute it to, Amanda? I attribute it to the fact that it's Virgo season now.
Amanda: Oh, I've seen the memes. I want to know more.
Julia: So, this week, Amanda, we're going to talk about the Western Zodiac. So, the Zodiac Signs in Astrology that came out of, like, Babylonian, Sumerian, and then Greek, and Roman mythology as opposed to, let's say, Eastern and Chinese zodiac or the Zodiac in Hindu astrology.
Amanda: I'm glad that we're going to go into this, because, whenever I see astrology-related names in the – in the way that we're defining it for this episode, I feel like I felt before I knew really what TikTok was, where I was just, like, seeing all these memes happening and I have no idea what or why they are funny. So, maybe I'll leave this episode with a bit better understanding about, like, Virgo season and like, LOL, typical Taurus.
Julia: Well, that is what I'm planning on teaching you about and, also, where all of these signs came from and why they are so impactful in the history of the human beings.
Amanda: I would love to know that. It'll also tell me more about my star shards in animal crossing, because they are characterized by the Zodiac.
Julia: Wonderful. I didn't know that about animal crossing. Thank you for informing me more about thing I don't know. So, Amanda, human beings have been using the stars to tell time since recorded history. So, the Ancient Egyptians knew that the Nile would soon flood when the star Sirius began rising in the sky in mid-July. Sailors use the stars by way of navigation and, sometimes, they still do. However, we don't know the first person to look up into the sky and believe that the movement of the stars across the firmament was influencing the lives of people. The director of Citizen Science at the NASA Space Science Education Consortium, Sten Odenwald. Great name, Sten.
Amanda: Sten? That's one more often stem.
Julia: And, also, Stan. I thought it was Stan at first. Nope, it's Sten with an E.
Amanda: Cool.
Julia: So, he said in an interview with Time, “There’s some indication that cave art shows this idea that animals and things can be imbued with some kind of spirit form that then has an influence on you, and if you appease that spirit form, then you will have a successful hunt. That was taken over by the idea of divination, where you can actually look at things in nature and study them carefully, such as tea-leaf reading.” And one of those forms of divination is astrology. So, the Babylonians, Amanda, had divided the Zodiac, which is the signs of astrology into 12 signs by 1500 BC. And that, eventually, passed into Greek Mythology and their own forms of divination. Ptolemy noted the 12 signs in the Tetrabiblos. And then that helped popularize them in the Second Century AD. And the word Zodiac even comes from the Greek word for “sculpted animal figure.”
Amanda: Cool.
Julia: Fun, right? But, Amanda, there are plenty of constellations in the sky. So, what is it about the zodiac signs that we attributed importance to? Well, it has everything to do with their placement in the sky. So, the Zodiac is specifically a band of constellations that the sun, moon, and planets move along, which the early astrologers took notice of and then, thus, gave them some importance. The band that is the Zodiac extends – here's some fun science stuff that I probably won't understand, but here we go. So, the, the band that is the Zodiac extends around eight degrees either north or south of the ecliptic, which is the plane of Earth's orbit around the sun. And each of those signs occupies 30 degrees of celestial longitude, 30 times 20 is 360, thus, wrapping the band around the globe. So, here's how NASA described it – our good buddy, Sten. Imagine a straight line drawn from Earth through the sun and out into space way beyond our solar system where the stars are. Then picture Earth following its orbit around the sun. This imaginary line would rotate pointing to different stars throughout one complete trip around the sun or one year. All the stars that lie close to the imaginary flat disk swept out by this imaginary line are said to be in the Zodiac. The constellations in the Zodiac are simply the constellations that this imaginary straight line points to in its year-long journey.
Amanda: Makes total sense. Thanks, Sten.
Julia: Sten, makes it sound so much easier than when I was trying to be, like, “Well, it's got 30 degrees of celestial longitude. I --
Amanda: It’s kind of, like, a clock. Don't worry about it.
Julia: Kind of, like, a clock. Don't worry about it. It shows up when it needs to.
Amanda: Listen, that's why I, I subscribed to Exolore, Julia, because that is where I will learn all I need to know about astrophysics and even more.
Julia: Absolutely. I think Moiya would be able to explain this way better than I can. But, hey, it's Spirits time. So, because the Zodiac was also used to tell time because of the placement of the constellations in the sky, the Greeks knew that the first day of spring was when Aries appeared in the sky, the constellation. And I think that is the perfect place to start in describing the origins of each of the signs.
Amanda: I cannot wait
Julia: So, Aries, which is Latin for ram, is a fire sign. And it lasts from approximately – all of these are going to be approximately. They kind of change year to year, because the --
Amanda: 360 not 365.
Julia: Exactly.
Amanda: Haha.
Julia: It's 364 and 1/4 each year. Haha.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: So, Aries lasts approximately from March 20th to April 21st. The sign of Aries is inspired by Chrysomallus, which you might know is the winged golden-woolled lamb of the Argonauts Golden Fleece like we talked about when we did Jason and the Argonauts.
Amanda: Oh.
Julia: So, this specific ram was the child of Poseidon, who had sex with a nymph named Theophane while in ram form. He also transformed Theophane into a ewe so that they would not be interrupted while they had sex. You know, like the gods do.
Amanda: As is.
Julia: Theophane was the granddaughter of Helios, which explains the kind of golden nature of the ram child that was born. Before the Greeks though, the constellation of Aries was associated with Amun Ra by the Ancient Egyptians as well as Dumuzid, the shepherd in Babylonian traditions. In Astrology, Aries is associated with the color red and is ruled by the planet Mars. I'm sure I can really get into, like, the nuances of being an Aries and, like, all of the signs. Like, what they are kind of defined by, but that would be an extremely long episode if we did. And I already think that this is gonna be a long episode. So, I'm going to hint the simplest strengths and weaknesses of each of these. So, Aries are considered courageous and determined, but are also known to be impulsive and short tempered. So, it's in their nature to take action.
Amanda: And, for all of these, I'm assuming that something about the, like, titular constellation and the qualities of whatever it's named after – like, is that what's influencing the kind of archetypes?
Julia: It is that and it's also, like, the planet that is, like, “rules it” or is in the sky during this Zodiac sign’s reign in the cloud --
Amanda: Gotcha.
Julia: -- in the stars. So, yeah, I think that it's a – it is very generalized. And I will say, like, I think, when it comes to astrology, I'm very, like, give and take. Like, sometimes, it is easy to be like, “Well, you know, I'm a Libra. So, I like to, you know, have balance and stuff like that.” But I think that people who are like, “Well, I would never date a Scorpio, because they're always jealous” are a little bit, like, “Okay. Okay, buds.”
Amanda: I think that, if you find it helpful and if it's something that helps you, you know, have introspection and to look at what's important to you, what might be challenges for you, what you think of as your strengths, and, also, what you look for and others and, like, what is attractive to you in, like, a friend or a mate, I don't see much difference between this and, like, a quote of the day calendar, you know, or a meditation app or anything else that kind of gives you a lens with which to approach, like, your day or introspection about your life.
Julia: Sure. And we talked about that when we talked about tarot cards a while back. It’s that it is a great lens in which to examine your own life and the things that are going on there. It doesn't necessarily need to be the way that you walk through life ruled by the, the forces of the stars or what have you.
Amanda: Yeah. And, for me, I know that one of my kind of depression fun bag of tricks side effects is sort of, like, a paralysis when thinking about myself and just sort – and sort of, like, I seemed like a peeled potato or something where I’m just kind of sitting there and I'm like, “I don't know what I am, or what I like, or what I want.” And, so, having something to kind of bounce against, like, to echolocate against is really, really helpful in the way that, you know, sometimes, when I'm making decisions, if I think of two different options, if I think to myself, “Okay. Well I'm gonna flip a coin and if it lands on, you know, A or B,” if I have a gut reaction that's like, “Oh god, not B or, like, Oh, thank god, it's A,” then that is a helpful piece of information to know. So, sometimes, you need someone to bounce off against.
Julia: And who knows Amanda that might be a sign of Pisces, which I know that's your sign.
Amanda: It is.
Julia: We'll see.
Amanda: It's usually listed last. Is that usually last?
Julia: It is, because they start with Aries in the calendar.
Amanda: Ah.
Julia: And that starts in March. And, so, Pisces ends in March. So, there we go.
Amanda: Cool. Well, I look forward to getting to it.
Julia: We'll get to it, but next in the order, Amanda, is Taurus, which is the bull. So, this last from, again, around April 21st to May 20th. It shouldn’t be too surprising that the bull is one of the Zodiac signs. So, many Western ancient traditions worship bulls or had myths that featured bulls. You might remember, Amanda, the story of the Bull of Heaven when we covered the Epic of Gilgamesh. It's because of this story and the fact that it dates back to the early Bronze Age that it's likely that this was historically the first Zodiac sign to be established, which I think is really interesting. Kind of knowing which one is first is always good. And there was a heavenly bull in the Egyptian beliefs as well, which was represented by the same constellation. For the Egyptians, the constellation, when it was covered by the sun, acted as a – as a sacrifice that renewed the land. Kind of, like, sacrificing a bull to the gods,
Amanda: It makes sense.
Julia: And, for Greek mythology, Taurus was the representation of Zeus, who transformed into a bull to abduct Europa or when he changed his lover, Io, into a bull to hide her from Hera. There's also the Cretan Bull who was one of the labors of Hercules.
Amanda: I think, very early on in Spirits, I was like, “It'd be really exciting to learn about all of Zeus’ sexual exploits.” And, now, I know too much.
Julia: No, it’s too much and I really --
Amanda: Too much.
Julia: -- would never want to do all of them.
Amanda: No.
Julia: There are several in episode already. And I'm not a fan of it.
Amanda: No. No. No. Too much trauma.
Julia: So, Taurus is a earth sign. It is ruled by the planet Venus. Green is associated with Taurus. And they are, typically, defined by their patience, devotion, and responsibility, but, also, by their stubbornness and possessiveness. So, they tend to be practical and well grounded. Kind of like a bull.
Amanda: I see it.
Julia: Yeah. Let's move on next to Gemini or the twins. Their reign is from May 21st to June 21st. And chances are you have, at least, heard of the twins that the constellation is based off of, which is Castor and Pollux.
Amanda: Ah, that sounds like a very hip Instagram menswear brand.
Julia: It does.
Amanda: I think I've heard of them.
Julia: Well, we talked about them a little bit when we did the Jason and the Argonauts episode, because Castor and Pollux were both Argonauts themselves.
Amanda: Ah, yes.
Julia: And they were the children of Leda. You might remember Pollux was the son of Zeus, while Castor was the son of Leda’s husband, who was the king of Sparta. And Leda, you'll remember, was either seduced or raped by Zeus in the form of a swan. It depends on which translation you're reading. And the story goes that Castor, being fully mortal, died and Pollux went to Zeus to beg his father that his brother would become immortal as well. So, Zeus, in response, placed them both among the stars so that they would not be separated and, thus, created the Gemini constellation.
Amanda: Classic, Zeus. Yes, but only if you die as well.
Julia: Yes. And Gemini, along with a lot of the other Zodiac symbols, was described by Ptolemy in the Second Century AD. So, Gemini is an air sign. It is ruled by the planet Mercury. Yellow is their color. And Gemini tend to be affectionate, curious, and are adaptable, but they're also like nervous and indecisive. Gemini tend to be defined by the fact that they can show one face or the other. So, you never know quite what you're going to get with them.
Amanda: Sounds like someone who dated a Gemini and has bad feelings about it.
Julia: So, Cancer is up next, the crab. Though, sometimes, it is represented by a lobster or a crayfish. Go mountain lobsters from Join the Party.
Amanda: Hey.
Julia: Cancer reigns from June 20th to July 22nd and is another sign that is also recorded by Ptolemy in the Second Century. Here, however, it was named karkinos in Ptolemy’s description. This is a reference to the crab that was crushed under the foot of Hercules when he was fighting the hydra, which it was, like, fighting on the Hydra side. Hera sent both the hydra and Karkinos to fight Hercules so that he would, you know, fail his labors. And, so, Hera placed the remains of the crab in the sky for fighting alongside with the hydra and battling for her against Hercules.
Amanda: I mean that's a very sweet pet grave for Hera to create.
Julia: Yeah, it's – it's really sad. Hercules just kind of steps on this giant crab and then it dies.
Amanda: Yeah. Aww.
Julia: In Ancient Egypt, Cancer was a scarab beetle, while in Mesopotamia it was a turtle. Oftentimes, it was represented as pushing the sun across the heavens representing the summer solstice arriving.
Amanda: Ah, yesterday, deliriously tired watching reruns of survivor. I said out loud, “Wow. Crabs really just walk sideways, huh? That’s awesome.
Julia: They do. They just really do.
Amanda: I think it's so cute. You look at them and it looks like they're gonna walk at you. But, no, they go sideways.
Julia: No, it's just easier. The legs move that way.
Amanda: Amazing. So good.
Julia: Cancer is a water sign. And it is ruled by the moon. Their color is white. And they tend to be loyal, persuasive, and emotional, but also moody and pessimistic, you know.
Amanda: I see that every quality has a sort of negative side to it.
Julia: Oh, yes. There's positive and negative for all of the – all of the signs. We'll talk about it later when we get to mine. So, they're very good at reading people. They're, like, deeply intuitive and very sensitive and sentimental. And they are very loyal to their friends and become very attached to people that they keep close. So, Cancers are usually a really good friend.
Amanda: Sounds great.
Julia: And then it's Leo time, which is from July 22nd to August 22nd. And the lion rules the sky. It is said that Leo, out of all the constellations in the Zodiac, is one of the earliest recognized dating back to 4000 BCE. The Persians saw him as a lion as did the Syrians and the Indians. In Sumerian, they believed the constellation to be that of Humbaba, which was a monster that was killed by Gilgamesh. Falling back once again to the labors of Hercules, the Greeks thought that the constellation was the Nemean Lion, who was slayed as one of the first labors. You might remember that the Nemean lion was being, like, a menace. It was stealing women and then dragging them back to its cave so that it could use them as bait for heroes, which is a very smart lion, very intelligent lion. However, the skin of the lion could not be pierced by swords and spears. So, none of the heroes were able to, you know, defeat it. So, Hercules, you know, being somewhat smart for a himbo, realized that he wouldn't be able to kill it with a sword and, instead, killed it with his bare hands. And Zeus was so impressed by this, to say the least, and put the lion into the sky as a constellation as a reminder of the accomplishment.
Amanda: Incredible.
Julia: Zeus is just like, “Umm, you know what? A constellation for you. A constellation for you. Everyone's a constellation now. Leo is a fire sign associated with gold, or yellow, or orange, but, you know, just basically, like, fire and lion colors. It is ruled by the sun. Of course, Leos are creative and passionate people with a bad habit of being a little bit arrogant, self-centered, and inflexible. They tend to be natural born leaders or else thrive in the center of attention. And the, the king of the jungle is an apt description for them a lot of the time. They're very good at attracting people to them.
Amanda: I was just thinking, “Why is the lion such an iconic animal for so many societies and kind of just human, like, representation in general? And I think it just looks the most real.”
Julia: It’s just a big, big animal too.
Amanda: Big.
Julia: And it is, like, you know, the, the head of the food chain.
Amanda: Apex predator. Totally.
Julia: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, lion, big deal for everyone even places that didn't really have lions.
Amanda: That said, human beings interacting with, like, rescue lions that couldn't be released into the wild, one of my favorite genres of YouTube videos.
Julia: Yes, as long as they’re ones that, like, cannot be sent back into the wild, absolutely agree. I love when, like --
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: -- it’s like, “This man saved this lion when he was just a baby.”
Amanda: I know.
Julia: And they're reunited 10 years later and the lion recognizes him and, like, welcomes into the pack.
Amanda: Oh, yeah.
Julia: Oh, it’s incredible.
Amanda: I'm just – I'm gonna cry forever. Yeah.
Julia: Next up is Virgo, the maiden or the virgin, with a reign from August 23rd to September 22nd. We're just getting out of Virgo season right now as this episode comes out. The Greeks related this constellation to Demeter as they also associated her with wheat. They also associated the constellation with Parthenos, whose sister is a whole complicated story. So, Parthenos’ sister was impregnated by Apollo. Their father found out about the pregnancy. He didn't know Apollo was the father. So, he tossed her into a box and then drowned her in the river because, you know, dishonor on the family, pregnancy without a marriage, not great.
Amanda: Yikes.
Julia: Parthenos and her remaining sister kind of lived in fear of their father after that. And then they did something that angered him. So, they fled away. And they attempted to toss themselves off a cliff rather than face their father's rage, but both of them were saved by Apollo. It's fine.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: In another story, Parthenos is the daughter of Apollo rather than the sister of his lover. And, when she dies of a young age – they don't really specify why she died – he immortalizes her in the stars as a constellation. Again, the Greeks love it when they're just immortalizing people in the stars. It’s how we get all of our constellations.
Amanda: It is the true Hollywood Walk of Fame.
Julia: Yes, exactly. It's the Olympus Walk of Fame. Virgo is also associated with Asteria in Greek mythology. She was the virgin goddess of justice and purity. She was the last of the gods to live among the humans. And, when the Iron Age began, she fled Earth because of the wickedness of humanity and became the constellation Virgo, which I get that.
Amanda: She had the right idea. You guys – you guys are not – are not pulling them together. I'm just gonna get out of here.
Julia: It's like, “Oh, this is – this is a little messy. I'm gonna go,” which makes sense when I describe the Virgo to you.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: So, Virgo is an earth sign associated with the color gray. It is ruled by Mercury. And they are known to be kind, hardworking, and practical but also can be shy and overly critical of both themselves and others. They are very detail oriented and approach life methodically, which, sometimes, can make them feel closed off to the rest of the world.
Amanda: Again, I know that our, our identification with these signs is completely voluntary. But my, my half birthday is during Virgo season. And I see a lot of myself in this.
Julia: That makes sense. That makes sense. And, Amanda, we’ll hit the back end of the Zodiac, but, first, let's get a refill.
Amanda: Let's do it.
Midroll Music
Amanda: Julia, we touched a little bit in the intro about the fact that we have a strange job, which is professional podcaster.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And, particularly, when, you know, throughout the course of the show, folks have heard us go from, you know, “Hey, we started this podcast. We hate our jobs. Like, we're going to happy hour kind of too often,” all the way through to, to this being our work. And, at least for me, when you kind of hit a milestone like that or when you're able to make a hobby into a career, it can kind of leave you adrift. Like, you, you go after this one goal for so long that, when you then get there, it's sort of, like, “Oh man. Like, I guess I need to decide something else or, like, make new goals or sort of figure out what to do.” And, so, I checked Skillshare, which is my – always my go to for creative and business-related classes to help improve your creativity and your skills even your career. And I took the class, Set Creative Goals by Ohn Mar Win. And I really enjoyed it. This is for creative professionals of all kinds. And I felt a lot of like solidarity and guidance. It can feel kind of silly to, to say like, “How do I set a goal?” I guess. But this class made it really doable. And my favorite thing about Skillshare is all of the lessons are broken down into little chunks like five or six-minute videos, where you can watch one and then do an exercise or do your life and then come back to it later. It's super flexible. So, for you to get a two-month long free trial of Skillshare premium, just go to skillshare.com/spirits2. That is skillshare.com/spirits2 to get two months of Skillshare premium for free.
Julia: That's so much time to take so many classes from Skillshare.
Amanda: Fantastic.
Julia: Amanda, I know one of the biggest challenges for me is getting to sleep and staying asleep. Like, I have blackout curtains. I have a white noise machine. And I still wake up in the middle of the night sometimes or struggle to fall asleep. And getting a good night's sleep can be really, really difficult. And, when you run on too little sleep, it takes a serious toll on, like, your mental health and your physical health. And that's why we're really excited to partner with Calm, which is a mental fitness app designed to help you relieve anxiety and improve your sleep. Because improving your sleep can, like, literally change your life. Calm helps you ease stress and get the best sleep of your life. They have a whole library of programs designed for healthy sleep, like, Soundscapes. They've guided meditations and over 100 sleep stories that are narrated by very soothing but familiar voices like LeVar Burton, and Nick Offerman, and Lucy Liu.
Amanda: I really enjoyed one last night that was set on a train. And there's a whole sub-genre of train sleep stories that I cannot get enough of. I just picture myself in a little, little sleeper cabin and listen to them describe the scenery going by. It is truly magical how quickly it helps me fall asleep.
Julia: You could also fall asleep to beautiful train stories by going to calm.com/spirits. And you'll get a limited time offer of 40 percent off a Calm premium subscription, which includes hundreds of hours of programming. Over 70 million people around the world use Calm to take care of their minds and get better sleep. And you can get the Calm app and experience a transformation in the way that you sleep. Again, Calm is offering a special limited time promotion of 40 percent off a Calm premium subscription at calm.com/spirits. That's C – A – L - M.com/spirits. And that is 40 percent off the unlimited access to Calm’s entire library. And new content is added every week.
Amanda: And, finally, Julia, we are sponsored by Stitch Fix. And there is nothing I like more to mark a transition in seasons, which I feel is more necessary than ever these days when every day you know feels kind of the same. It is amazing to wake up to, like, a cool breeze --
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: -- you know, for the first time in so long. And I love being able to switch out my summer wardrobe for my fall sweaters and, and rompers, and pants, and, like, nice blouses, many of which are from Stitch Fix.
Julia: Yeah, I'm wearing a pair of Stitch Fix joggers right now. Like, for the first time, I’m wearing long pants for the entire season. And it's really, really nice.
Amanda: One of my first Stitch Fix ads, I think I talked about a green, like, knitted sweater I got with elbow patches. And, Julia, it's three years later. I wear that thing every other week.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And Stitch Fix truly – like, this is not one of the bullet points even in the copy here. But, like, the quality is real. And it is very exciting to know that you can let them know your size, your budget, the amount and kind of amount you want to spend on each item. And they will send you things that are handpicked exactly for you. You can do their extremely addictive and fun, like, online style quizzes, where you give, like, a thumbs up or thumbs down to different outfits. For someone like me, who is not on dating apps, I feel like it kind of scratches similar itch.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And there is just a $20-styling fee for each fix, which is credited automatically toward anything you keep. So, you can schedule it at any time. You don't even have to sign up for a subscription. Though, you can, which is a nice way to refresh your wardrobe every so often.
Julia: Yeah. So, Stitch Fix is that personal styling company that does the hard work for you. They make great style effortless for everybody, including men, women, children, non-binary folk, kids. And you can get started today at stitchfix.com/spirits. And you'll get 25 percent off when you keep everything in your fix
Amanda: Shipping, exchanges, and returns are easy and free, which is a must for me in any online shopping. So, go to stitchfix.com/spirits for 25 percent off when you keep everything in needed fix.
Julia: stitchfix.com/spirits.
Amanda: And, now, let's get back to the show.
Julia: So, Amanda, I found a website called Drizly, which assigned cocktails for each astrological sign. And I'll – I’ll link the article in the show notes. But I wanted to see if you felt as though yours would be your taste for this episode. So, Amanda, you're a Pisces. So, they recommended the cocktail the Martinique to you, which is a mixture of Chambord, vodka, lemon juice and mango juice.
Amanda: Ah, not particularly. What's the Virgo one?
Julia: The Virgo one, Amanda, is the Elder-Peary Sangria. So, it is white wine, St Germain, pear nectar, and blackberries.
Amanda: I do like that one quite a lot. So, maybe I'm just in my personal Virgo season right now.
Julia: That's probably true. You know, we are all going through Virgo season right now. Maybe you just needed something a little bit more grounded and not as, like, “exotic and alluring” as the Martinique. As for me, they recommended the Endless Summer, which is tequila, Cointreau, Crème de Cassis, orange and lime Juice, which is dramatic yet graceful according to the website. But it does legit sound very good and very on par for what I like.
Amanda: It does. I also used Drizly early in quarantine to order liquor from my local liquor store. So, it's a totally unsponsored thing that I like
Julia: A recommendation for you. Not a sponsorship. A recommendation. No spon con here.
Amanda: There you go.
Julia: And, Amanda, speaking of my cocktail, my sign, Libra, is up next. And Libra is the scales. It reigns from September 23rd to October 22nd. The scales, being referred to, are the scales of Themis, who is the Greek embodiment of divine law and custom and who would eventually become the representation of Lady Justice in modernity. The Babylonians also saw the constellation as scales or balances. Though, sometimes, they were represented as the claws of the scorpion.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: However, when it was the scales, they were held by the Babylonian god, Shamash, who was the god of truth and justice. So, Libra is an air sign. It's associated with color pink or green and is ruled by Venus. Libras are diplomatic and cooperative, but also can be indecisive, avoid confrontation, and are known to carry a grudge. So, personally, I think I associate more with the bad qualities of Libra than the good qualities, but partnerships are really important to Libras because partnerships act as a – like other person that can balance them out, which is really important to a Libra.
Amanda: Nice.
Julia: They need someone else on the other side of the scales to keep things balance. And I think that's legit
Amanda: Man, Greek mythology is such a, like, unaccredited remix of the world before it.
Julia: Almost all Western mythology is just a remix --
Amanda: True.
Julia: -- of the world before it. The Romans copied the Greeks, who copied the Babylonians, who copied the Mesopotamians, and so on and so forth. So, like I said, Libra was seen as the claws of the scorpion, which makes sense since the next sign is Scorpio. So, Scorpio is the constellation Scorpius, whose story is tied to the hunter Orion. So, Orion, who is very into Artemis, once bragged to her that he could – he could and would kill every animal on the planet.
Amanda: No.
Julia: Artemis hated that idea since she was a nature goddess. And she and her mother banded together to send a giant deadly scorpion to kill Orion.
Amanda: Read the room, my dude.
Julia: I know. So, Orion and Scorpius are doing this big battle. Zeus is impressed by said battle between the hunter and the scorpion and, thus, raises them both in the sky to immortalize the battle. Again, making constellations. Thanks, Zeus. It is said sometimes that the scorpion will continue to chase Orion throughout the sky for the rest of eternity, which I think is great.
Amanda: I was going to say I kind of, like, the image of Scorpio, like, turning around to, you know, put its claws into the previous sign.
Julia: Yes. So, it's – it's chasing Orion through the sky and I, I think --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -- that's a really cool image. Scorpio is a water sign. It's associated with the color red. It is ruled by both Pluto and Mars. And Scorpios are resourceful, brave, and stubborn and can be secretive and jealous. So, they're very determined and assertive people and can be fiercely emotional. You do not want to cross a Scorpio. You don't want to betray their trust because they will come back with a vengeance. Sagittarius is up next. The archer and sometimes known as a centaur in the sky from November 23rd to December 21st, which makes sense because the Greeks associate this sign with the centaur, Chiron, who you might remember being the mentor to Achilles.
Amanda: I sure do.
Julia: But, before the Greeks, the Babylonians pictured Sagittarius as the god Nurgle. Nurgle was a sun god, but, specifically, only the destructive force of the sun. So, like, the sun at noon on a summer day kind of sun. Like, sun that, like, scorches the Earth, and burns your skin, and destroys your crops as well as being associated with pestilence and war. So, Nurgle, not great.
Amanda: Totally makes sense to, like, divide out the, the sort of sun as, like, wonderful life giver and sun as, “No, no, no. Too much,” like, destroyer.
Julia: Yeah, absolutely. I think that makes a lot of sense. And they should do that more in mythology in my opinion. Nurgle was often depicted with a bow. So, when the Greeks adapted the imagery, it blended Chiron the Centaur and Nurgle together. In Greek mythology, Sagittarius was said to have been placed in the sky by Chiron himself as a way to guide the Argonauts as they sought out the Golden Fleece. Again, sailors using the stars as navigation, I love that.
Amanda: Totally.
Julia: Sagittarius is a fire sign, associated with the color blue. They are ruled over by Jupiter. And Sagittarius are known to be generous and idealistic while being blunt and often promising more than they can actually deliver. So, they really value freedom above all else, but can be a little bit tactless as a result. I hope no one – no one gets offended by these descriptions that I'm reading out here, because, like, these are just, like, the things that are associated with these signs. I'm not saying, like, all Sagittarius promised more than what they deliver and whatnot. It's just the, the general consensus about these signs.
Amanda: I think most conspirators know. Most conspirators are cool. They get it.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: We’re – we're talking about archetypes here. And I think all of these signs really take, you know, the qualities that make somebody good and excess can also be negative. And that's true of almost everything in life.
Julia: That is absolutely true. Right you are, Amanda. We're going to move on now to Capricorn, who is the sea goat, my favorite of all types of sign. It ranges from December 21st to January 21st. And who cares? Let's talk about sea goats.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So, like the name suggests, it is the front half of a goat and the back half of a fish. I knew you're gonna ask, which – which is which.
Amanda: Oh, my god. I never knew this.
Julia: The sea goat has been around since the Bronze Age and the Mesopotamians. Often used by the Babylonians a bit later to represent the god Enki, who you might remember is the god of the waters and creation. The name Capricorn represented by the constellation Capricornus means “horned goat” or just having horns like a goat. For the Greeks, it was not a sea goat, but rather just, like, a regular goat and was represented as Amalthea, who was the goat that suckled Zeus when Rhea hid him in order to save him from being devoured by Kronos. The Greeks also associated the constellation with the god Pan because of his goat-like appearance and also because Pan was able to save himself from the serpent monster, Typhon, by giving himself a fish tail and then diving into a river and swimming away.
Amanda: Cute.
Julia: Great job, Pan. I love it. And, just a fun little note as well, in Hindu astrology, which maybe will come that at some point, Capricorn is equated to Makara, who is the crocodile.
Amanda: I love it.
Julia: Capricorn is a earth sign represented by either brown or black. It is ruled by Saturn. And Capricorns are known to be responsible with great self-control, but can be a little bit condescending and unforgiving at times because Capricorn is often seen as the sign that represents responsibility and the passage of time. Capricorns can be serious masters of self-control, which makes them great managers.
Amanda: I mean it makes sense.
Julia: Yeah, manage their own time, manage other people's time. You know, Capricorns, real good in positions of authority alongside Leos. Okay. So, speaking of water and sea goats, our next sign is Aquarius, which reigns from January 21st to February 20th. Aquarius, as you might guess, from the name is the water bearer. The Greek saw this as Ganymede, who I feel like we've spoken about before. But, if we haven't, Ganymede was a young man who was the son of the king of Troy and was spotted by Zeus while he was tending to his father's flock in the field.
Amanda: Oh yeah. Boy toy.
Julia: Yes, boy toy. Zeus found him extremely beautiful, fell in love, and then he flew down from Olympus as a giant eagle and flew away with Ganymede, who was then brought back to Olympus and made the cup bearer to the gods. The Babylonians had a different image of Aquarius. However, they saw the constellation as representing the chief god himself, Iya. The Egyptians saw Aquarius as being associated with the flooding of the Nile, where Aquarius, when he put his jug of water into the river, it meant that spring would begin and the floods would soon be there.
Amanda: Always a good sign.
Julia: Always a good sign, especially when you live on the Nile River. Aquarius is an air sign, which doesn't really make sense but whatever, astrology, I guess.
Amanda: I was gonna say it sounds like we're in the water corner of the year.
Julia: Yeah. We're – we’re not though because that's an air sign apparently.
Amanda: I guess.
Julia: It's represented by the color silver and is ruled by both Uranus and Saturn. Aquarius is an independent and original person, but can come across as temperamental, uncompromising, and aloof. Aquarius tend to be influenced and adapt to the energy around them, but will be introverts. They need time to recharge by being alone, which I get. I understand that. Thanks, Aquarius.
Amanda: It makes sense.
Julia: And, finally, Amanda, we end with your sign, Pisces, the fish. It is from February 19th to March 20th. And, interestingly, the Greeks don't picture it just as a fish. They saw them as Ichthyocentaurs or, you know, sea horses.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: Like, literally, a horse with the – with the tail.
Amanda: That's where Ichthyology comes from.
Julia: Exactly. It's – it's basically the Greek for fish and the centaur because it's also part horse.
Amanda: There you go.
Julia: These sea horses accompanied Aphrodite from the sea when she was born out of the sea foam. I know we've talked about that before. We don't have to get into the specifics.
Amanda: Uh, huh. Uh, huh. Nope, we don't.
Julia: It was also said that they were the fish that she and Eros transformed into so they could escape Typhon as well. You remember that he attacked Pan earlier, who then transformed into Capricornus. In another story, they were simply just giant fish that took the two of those gods to safety. And, as thanks for their service, Aphrodite raised them into constellations in the sky. Again, there's a lot of raising of constellations.
Amanda: I wonder if that's a good or a bad thing. Like, do they want to be raised or do they want to, you know, die a giant fish death?
Julia: Well, Amanda, if the Disney movie, Hercules, has taught me everything, it’s a real honor to be lifted into the sky as a constellation.
Amanda: That is also what the beautiful and devastating Switch game, Spiritgfarer, has taught me.
Julia: Oh, rip. I love that. The sign of Pisces is also associated with Vishnu in Hinduism and Inanna in Sumerian mythology. So, Pisces is a water sign. This one makes sense at least. It's represented by the color purple and ruled by Neptune and Jupiter. Amanda, this is your sign, obviously, as we talked about. You're supposed to be artistic, wise, and intuitive, which I think are all accurate for you.
Amanda: Thank you.
Julia: But you can also be overly trusting and sometimes fearful of decision, which is a desire to escape reality.
Amanda: Oh, yeah. No, that, that checks out.
Julia: Yep. Which given the current world, I don't blame you for. You tend to be attracted to people who are very different from you. And you're always willing to help. And you're a great judge of character, because you're so intuitive.
Amanda: Thank you. Is there anything in there about crippling people pleasing? Is that in there at all?
Julia: I think it's the desire and willingness to always help people even if, you know, they might not help you back.
Amanda: Yeah. Totally.
Julia: There we go. All right. And, Amanda, that's – that's the Western Zodiac for you.
Amanda: I feel like I have so much more knowledge now about all the memes about Virgo season.
Julia: Yes, absolutely. And all the Leos in my life who were just yelling constantly for the entirety of August, I understand you now.
Amanda: Julia, I think that might just be spending too much time with too many Italians.
Julia: You know what the problem is? I just have a lot of friends and my husband are all Leos. There’s too many Leos in my life. It's because I'm bad at making decisions and Leos are very good at them.
Amanda: That is always a nice thing when you have a compliment like that.
Julia: That is absolutely true. And, Amanda, like we talked about before, I'm not wholeheartedly like 100 percent into astrology and the Zodiac and stuff like that. I don't check my horoscope every day or anything like that. But, like we said before, I really do think that this is a good way to kind of look at your life through a lens that helps you learn more about yourself.
Amanda: Absolutely. I think tools for introspection are helpful if they don't harm anybody else. And, you know, writing off dating somebody because of their astrological sign, I don't know if I would do it. Legend has it that my – one of my dad's sisters said that to my mom when they first met. She was right in the end, but still not a cool thing to hear on your first visit to your future husband's family.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah, not great.
Amanda: But, if it is something that allows you to kind of look at your strengths and areas that you want to work on or things that you value in a partner, in business, or in life, then I think that's great.
Julia: Yeah. And I think this is kind of one of those things where you can take what you want and leave what you want. I heard the phrase once at a cafeteria Catholic where it's like you take what you want from the religion and, you know, leave the stuff behind that you don't think is right. And I think that I am a cafeteria astrologist, when it comes down to it. I don't – I don't need to --
Amanda: Exactly.
Julia: -- really be thinking about, you know, “Well if my – if my moon sign is in this, that means my love life is going to be like that. And I really need to be careful about the people I surround myself with,” which like, “Yeah, you do have to be careful with the people you surround yourself with, but I'm not going to go around asking potential friends, like, so, when were you born, and at what time, and how are you doing.
Amanda: Let me just do your star chart real quick.
Julia: Let me just do your star chart real quick.
Amanda: But, no, I, I think too there is something about kind of focusing on one challenge or one habit at a time. And, you know, you read that when you read about the, the science and psychology of making new habits or changing habits of yours. And you can't do 10 of them at once. It really is most effective to focus on one at a time. And the actual, like, unit of recommendation that people tend to recommend is, you know, focus on one habit for a month. And, like, that is kind of a milestone of doing something new or changing something that you already do. So, if it makes sense for you to focus on a different area of personal development, as we move into different star signs, I think that's great.
Julia: Yeah. And especially if you take responsibility for these things. Like, I know that I am not great at making decisions, but I can't spend my time being like, “Oh, I'm sorry. I couldn’t choose between these two things, guys. It's because I'm a Libra, you know.”
Amanda: Absolutely. And I'm very curious from the conspirators, if astrology is a meaningful way for you to think about your life, we'd love to hear why and how. And, if you have other things that you kind of use as tools for introspection and for kind of relating to the world and how you navigate it, I'd also be curious to hear about that.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. I think that there's a lot to be said about using this kind of forms of divination, I guess is, is the right word for it. Using these forms of divination to examine your life in a way that you might not be able to in traditional means.
Amanda: Totally, we are @SpiritsPodcasts on social or spiritspodcast@gmail.com.
Julia: Yes. Or spiritspodcast.com/contact, that is also an option to contact us.
Amanda: Well, Julia, I really appreciate you taking me on this tour of the Zodiac. I hope all, all Virgos have, you know, survived and are doing well. Fellow Pisces, what up? I do love the color purple.
Julia: There you go.
Amanda: And that's all I got to say about that.
Julia: Yeah. Virgos, your time is ending and it's Libra time. So, everyone have a good month or so worth of making difficult decisions and finding balance in your life. And remember to stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
Theme Music
Amanda: Thanks again to our sponsors. At skillshare.com/spirits2, you can get two free months of Skillshare premium. At calm.com/spirits, you can get 40 percent off a Calm premium subscription. And, at stitchfix.com/spirits, you’ll get 25 percent off when you keep everything in your fix.
Outro Music
Amanda: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
Julia: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website as well as a form to send us your urban legends at spiritspodcast.com.
Amanda: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, for all kinds of behind-the-scenes stuff. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more available too; recipe cards, director’s commentaries, exclusive merch, and real physical gifts.
Julia: We are a founding member of Multitude, a collective of independent audio professionals. If you'd like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
Amanda: And, above all else, if you liked, what you heard today, please share us with your friends. That is the very best way to help us keep on growing.
Julia: Thank you so much for listening. Till next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil