Episode 314: The Wild Hunt
/As midwinter fast approaches, we explore The Wild Hunt; the spectral parade of spirits and souls that hunt across the European skies. We discover the surprising origins, the multiplicity of tales, and much more!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, religious persecution, hunting, animal death, animal attacks, torture, fascism, and infidelity.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends A Restless Truth by Freya Marske.
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Transcript
[Spirits Theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And this episode 314. What's the pie episode Julia, The Wild Hunt.
JULIA: I was like, oh, are we talking about pie? Wait, I didn't prepare anything about pie.
AMANDA: We are learning about the Wild Hunt, which sounds really fun. But I have no idea what this is specifically.
JULIA: Yeah. So this is really interesting because kind of as winter is settling in here in the northern hemisphere, I've been thinking of the things that kind of remind me of winter in the folkloric sense. And one of the things that I was thinking of was the Wild Hunt. And this is something that is often associated with midwinter, usually around November and December because this is when it's commonly believed that the veil between the living and the dead is at its thinnest, and I know you said you don't know a lot about the Wild Hunt but what is the imagery? What does that like phrase kind of evoke for you in your mind?
AMANDA: Yeah, I'm imagining like a big boar or a stag, you know, or some kind of like mythical creature, maybe it's all white, I don't know. But something to do with like, letting go of inhibitions, and like going on a big old sort of grand hunt together, maybe the hunters people, I truly, truly have no idea.
JULIA: I love when I can kind of surprise you a little bit—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: — in these episodes. So interesting imagery. I will say you're not totally far off in some regards. But—
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: —you're —you're not exactly on the money this time. You're not—
AMANDA: Fair enough.
JULIA: —you didn't pull the classic Amanda, you know, pointed the fit ins and do a big swing and hit it exactly where it needs to be. But—
AMANDA: That's okay. I love it.
JULIA: So the Wild Hunt is a common myth or story from Germany, Scandinavia, France, and Britain. And while the leader of this hunt, because there is a leader of this hunt depends on who is telling the story. It is generally a chase that is led by a mythological figure, often escorted by or leading a supernatural or ghostly group of hunters in pursuit.
AMANDA: Hmm. Wow.
JULIA: What is being pursued is an interesting question, or what is being hunted is again, depending on who is the one telling the story, and while the themes feel very ancient in many ways, I think it might surprise you, Amanda and surprise our listeners as well to learn that the first written record of the Wild Hunt was actually documented by Jacob Grimm of the Grimm Brothers.
AMANDA: Really it—I definitely had like medieval associations with a name like that.
JULIA: Yes. And unsurprising, because we'll get into a little bit later, but it does predate the Grimm Brothers, but the first written and like codified version of the story was by Jacob Grimm. So here's a great quote, giving a great definition of the Wild Hunt by Ronald Hutton from quote The Wild Hunt in the modern British imagination. So here's the clip. In 2001, Hilda Ellis Davidson, one of the leading British experts in folklore and in medieval European mythology, defined the Wild Hunt as one of many names for a company of dark riders who pass through the sky at night, or else along lonely roads. She added that its leaders could be supernatural, or legendary figures or historical personalities. And that it was usually regarded as sinister and menacing, quote, an impressive example of the intrusion of dangerous other world powers into daily life. The name The Wild Hunt, is used for the spectral cavalcades was coined and popularized in the early 19th century by the leading German scholar Jacob Grimm, who drew extensively on records of contemporary folklore mostly German, which he combined with medieval and ancient texts to assemble his construct.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: Basically, I love these quotes, the company of dark riders who pass through the sky at night. I also really love the intrusion of dangerous other world powers into daily life, which is going to be a theme that we'll talk about a little bit later in this episode. So it's really, really interesting and Jacob Grimm is kind of center to how we see the Wild Hunt as we do today. Before we get started, a little bit of background and context on the hunt. Before we get into like the real history of it. What you need to know first off, is that the hunt was commonly believed to be this foreboding sign as the quote mentioned earlier. It was said that it was sent after sinners of some kind, or it was a sign that someone's doom was close at hand. We see a lot of European folklore, where it is a dark figure of some kind that is bringing in a foreboding future or a doom prophecy of some kind, like a banshee, for example.
AMANDA: So in a way the hunt is people.
JULIA: Exactly. Amanda, you—you're right. I don't want to give it away complete vigor, a little bit right on that one.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: However, it wouldn't be very interesting if that was just kind of the end of it, like, oh, you saw the— The Hunt. And now someone you know, was going to die or whatever. It's of course, a person who encountered The Hunt would sometimes be rewarded in some way, if they performed a service to the leader of the hunt adequately, very face style, you know, it's like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —oh, you've been enthralled by the Fae. But if you perform this task mayhaps, you'll be given a boon of some kind, you know.
AMANDA: Yeah, like, you're probably going to die. But if—if you're nice, then maybe you won't.
JULIA: Exactly. Exactly. Or if you're brave enough or strong enough or clever enough, you won't die, you know. And as I mentioned earlier, it was associated with midwinter, because this was the time where the veil between the living and the dead was thin. And also because of that, it was kind as seen as a psychopomp, would—it was like literally a gathering of souls or spirits, right. And then there was also this sometimes portrayal of it being this endless punishment, where spirits are always roaming or never able to settle down and rest. And finally, it is also seen as a situation where the joy of the hunt is what drives the participants in it. To the point where it can be seen as a punishment or a reward in the divine afterlife. But it's also worth noting that this is always kind of flavored with some sort of dark motivation driving them. It is a debaucherous joy of hunt that these spirits are feeling. And if this flavor feels somewhat familiar after listening to spirits, for however long you've been listening, and you sense a little flavor of lol, it's not pagan, it's fine. This is because it's often told through a Christian lens or like a Christian background, despite the very pagan flavors of The Wild Hunt. So shout out to a real good story that is lol is not pagan, it's fine if I've ever seen one.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: As we can tell by the background of The Wild Hunt, it is something that feels very ancient. And because of that, there are obviously many, many variations and possible folklore traditions that we could list as the origins of hunt. And we'll dip into those a little bit later. But the real origin of the Wild Hunt, as we see it now, is actually more recent than we would have thought with Jacob Grimm in the early 19th century. I'm sure a lot of us are familiar with Jacob Grimm and his work if you've listened to the podcast, or if you're interested in fairytales and folklore at all. And we know him from documenting fairy tales with his brother Wilhelm, but he was also a folklorist in his own right. I feel like we've talked about that a little bit in earlier episodes, right?
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: So as such, many contemporary folklores agree that Jacob Grimm was the one that created this unified construct of the Wild Hunt by stitching together a lot of variations and ideas under this one umbrella. Right?
AMANDA: That makes sense, especially with a myth where, you know, we're hearing characterizations like it's the spiritual realm, and the physical realm. It could be a punishment, it could be a reward, you can get out of it, maybe or you can't. It definitely makes sense that this is a you know, a theme we see across a lot of different traditions versus like a discrete story.
JULIA: Exactly. And in the case of Jacob Grimm, it's super interesting, and it—we'll talk a little bit about the problematic nature of it later. But Jacob Grimm very much wanted to create this solidified or unified version of the story, because Grimm's work at the time was about creating an idea of unified Germany with a unified culture, which in hindsight, was not a great framework for him to lay out because—
AMANDA: Sure, sure.
JULIA: —you know, obviously, not great for the standards of folklore practices, and also for the future of Germany during that time period. But because that was his goal, it makes sense for him to want this unified version of The Wild Hunt. And while in this process, a lot of Grimms methodology was probably not to the standards of folklore studies. Now, most scholars studying folklore, agree that the mythos does predate Jacob Grimm, and most certainly predates Christianity, but then grew to incorporate Christian motifs and beliefs. The point though, that I'm trying to get at is that the origins of the myth are fairly scattered, especially as scholars try to determine what pieces Grimm stitch together to create his version of the [9:52]
AMANDA: Right on.
JULIA: So as—as we've talked about in previous episodes, there's a lot of folklorists going back in time and being like, okay, maybe that part came from this, but we'll never know because Jacob Grimm didn't like write down like, oh, I took this from this, and this from this, and now—
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: —that's how I got my tale. No, he was just like, this is the story. No further questions, your honor.
AMANDA: You bought the book, that's all you have to do.
JULIA: Exactly. So Grimm laid out his version of The Wild Hunt in a single book, which was published in 1835. Titled Deustche to Mythology, picture that in a more German phrase, but it's just the word mythology but in German.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: And despite the somewhat fraught way that Grimm went about his research, as I just mentioned. This publication in its time was pretty pioneering scholarly work. Grimm assembled the basic body of material on which that concept was erected and identified the original mythology that inspired it as one of a nocturnal ride of dead heroes led by a pagan god and his female consort. And it even popularized the term Wild Hunt as the name of this phenomenon, which we still refer to, to this day. So even though Grimm was pulling from a bunch of different sources, Grimm was basically picking and choosing what he wanted the Wild Hunt to be, he did kind of solidify what we now refer to as the Wild Hunt. So we kind of have to give him a little credit over there, just a little bit.
AMANDA: Just a bit. Just a bit.
JULIA: But what were these pagan and pre Christian stories that Grimm was drawing from? Well, we definitely have a good idea of what they were even if we're not 100% certain. There are two dominant folklore motifs that when combined, and change, gave us the elements that were eventually umbrella under Grimms Wild Hunt. So the first that we're going to talk about is the march of the dead, or basically a sighting of a slow march or parade of dead, either bodies or spirits. Often in folktales, witnesses encounter the horror of it, and then take it as a warning away from a life of sin. Again, this is the the post Christian lens.
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: It's sort of basically this parade of torture, for lack of a better phrase. And the story is meant to offer as a caution to those leading immoral lives. And you know, if you're saying to yourself, yeah, that's very Christian, you're right. Some folklores think that this predates Christianity. But to be honest, there's no real evidence that this motif existed before the more Christian versions that we see later on. There's nothing more Christian that it's like, oh, look at the parade of people who sinned in life. You don't want to be one of those, change your ways.
AMANDA: How embarrassing it would be.
JULIA: It would be so embarrassing. Oh, no. So the clearest example of this march of the dead was written down by a Benedictine monk name, or Orderic Vitalis, which is a cool name—
AMANDA: [12:54]
JULIA: —[12:54] who authored a book called Historica Ecclesiastica. In the late 11th, and early 20th century, he's not sure the exact time that he wrote it, somewhere around that time period. His account of this march of the dead comes from another priest named [13:10], who was summoned by a sick man who lived at the edge of his parish. So as the priest was traveling home from this man's house, he heard what sounded like a large troop and went to hide. Because he was like, oh, no, this could be anyone. Let me get out of here. Before he could do so, he was confronted by a giant who orders him to stay put and watch the procession that's going by. So the priests watches this strange procession as it passes him. He sees neighbors who had recently died, he sees adulterous women, he sees an assassin who killed another priest, being all part of this procession of the dead right?
AMANDA: Woah.
JULIA: All we're experiencing, according to this priest, various forms of torture and following behind them was this quote, immense army in which no color was visible, only blackness and fiery flames all were mounted on great war horses and fully armed as if they were prepared for immediate battle. And they carried black banners
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: It's really striking, honestly, the imagery. They love this idea in which no color was visible. Imagine it's nighttime, you're a priest, and it's very scary. This priest [14:24] is like, oh shit, no one's ever gonna believe me about this. So I need proof of what I saw.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: And so he tries to capture a riderless horse as proof to take home with him. He couldn't just like, you know, grab like maybe a banner or a piece of I don't know something—
AMANDA: Cloth. Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah a piece of cloth like a cutting from someone's robe. I don't know. You need to take a fucking full horse, my guy.
AMANDA: Really, Julia? You know, I like horses.
JULIA: I know you do.
AMANDA: Here's the thing that us, horse girls know that the rest of the world might not. If a horse is riderless, it's for a reason.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Riderless horses, don't try to ride them, you probably won't be successful.
JULIA: That's absolutely true, especially when it's a spectral parade of torture and spectral horse. Probably, you know.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: You're absolutely correct. As soon as his hands fall on the horse, he is overcome by the simultaneous feeling of being burned and being frozen. And he in the process is spotted by four knights who are part of this retinue, right? So one of them grabs him by the throat, and [15:30] being a priest, calls out for the Virgin Mary, and in doing so, this other knight comes over and orders the first release the priest identifying himself as [15:39] brother.
AMANDA: Woah.
JULIA: So he's like, I didn't know that my brother was dead. Huh, oh, no. So he cautions [15:49] to leave and to not speak for three days, which is like, again, some face shit, but also a period of enforced silence after witnessing these events. And [16:01] flees back to his parish, nach naturally.
AMANDA:I mean, yeah, he should have done that before. But I'm glad that he's fleeing now. And that's really interesting, the kind of not talking for three days just to like, let shit settle, which I think is a pretty good plan. Like you—it's not gonna be harmed. Lots of people, you know, use silence as a, you know, a healing tool. And even though you might want to, like maybe part of this is, is as a tool like, you might want to run out and tell everybody possibly about what happened to you. But there is a thing to be protected. And you may draw kind of further attention on yourself if you do.
JULIA: Absolutely. And again, I feel like that's very fe rules, like, do not speak of this for three days, or else you'll be—you'll be doomed to fall into the—the order of it again, you know what I mean?
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: So Vitalis, the guy who's writing all this down, claims that he heard all of this directly from [16:47], who lived for another 15 years, and claimed to have seen the burn mark, where the sinister Knight had grabbed him by the neck, which, to me feels like real, like medieval urban legend energy, like, Oh—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —I heard this from my cousin who was definitely there and saw it all happen.
AMANDA:He had a big burn, man I saw with my own eyes.
JULIA: Yeah. And that couldn't have happened any other way, was in the direct shape of a hand.
AMANDA: Yeah. Yeah.
JULIA: So I super love that, it's great. So similar to Orderic Vitalis's March of the Dead, that he wrote down there is a similar version called the March of the Spirits.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: In this version, a supernatural figure. Usually a woman and her spiritual retinue are the stars of the story. The posse sometimes includes the spirits of women that did the bidding of their leader while their bodies stayed asleep at home, which I think is very similar to—we talked about this a while back in an episode about those Italian witches who would basically like astral project in their sleep and like do fun little witchy things while—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —they slept in their beds.
AMANDA: A.K.A, the dream, Julia.
JULIA: Exactly. We all want to be doing that.
AMANDA: I know. I—I don't know if I necessarily want to like labor in the night as my mortal body rests. But I do want to frolic in the night.
JULIA: Yeah. I have been thinking a lot lately how I'm like, man, I wish I could read with my eyes closed or like in my sleep, because I'm like, I just want to keep reading the story. But God, my body is so tired, and just audiobooks don't do it for me in that same way. So.
AMANDA: That's fair.
JULIA: I was like if someone could invent reading in your sleep, I would be a big fan of that.
AMANDA: Word.
JULIA: It's important when we're comparing Vitalis's March of the Dead and the March of the Spirit, that in both of these versions, they are framed in the remaining literature by Christian thought. So the leaders were often portrayed as heretics or witches or devils, not your average, like “good upstanding citizen”, quote, unquote. In some versions of the March of the Spirits, the leader is Diana, the Roman Goddess of the hunt, which makes a lot of sense.
AMANDA: Classic.
JULIA: Or, Herodias, who's the wife of Herod in the Bible. And the Italian historian Carlo Ginzburg, documented some of these beliefs though, mostly it was priests talking about women that they accused of witchcraft, who they then claimed are like partying with these like Lady Goddesses or Lady Spirits, right?
AMANDA: Sure. Dangerously pagan.
JULIA: Of course, they're like, oh, no, that woman I think she's a witch and I saw her with the March of the Spirits. And the woman can't say she wasn't there because no one would believe her.
AMANDA: Right. It just like, I was at home sleeping and they're like, hmm your body was.
JULIA: Your body was, sure, but I did see your spirit out there.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So this March of the Spirits was also associated with the Ember days, which are the days at the beginning of the seasons ordered by the church as days of fast or abstinence, especially the Ember days of December.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: Really putting a Christian Catholic lens on this stories that probably predate the—the Christian spread throughout Europe.
AMANDA: Yeah, I've never heard of that in Christian tradition.
JULIA: Yeah. So now even to some degree, this March of the Spirits has various geographical differences. And we'll dive into those soon, but first, I think we're going to need to grab a refill.
AMANDA:Let's do it.
[theme]
AMANDA: Hello Hello everybody and welcome to the refill. Thanks first and foremost to our newest patrons Stacy, Lydia and PA for joining in the fun. We hope you're enjoying your monthly Urban Legend bonus episodes, your audio dispatches from Julia on every solstice and equinox. For the Tarot reading to kind of guide our months ahead, and all of the other fabulous stuff that you can check out on Patreon. There are truly hundreds of posts from the past and everybody who joins gets access to all of those, same benefits from years previous. So consider joining today at patreon.com/spiritspodcast. Thanks to our supporting producer level patrons, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Brittany, Cicuta Maculata, Daisy, Froody Chick, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jessica Stewart, Kneazlekins, Lily, Megan Moon, Nathan, Phil Fresh, Rikoelike, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, Spooky Lore, and Zazi. And our legend level patrons, Arianna, Audra, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Clara, Ginger Spurs Boi, Sarah, Schmitty, & Bea Me Up Scotty. Now I recommended a first book called A Marvellous Light by Freya Marske, in this like alternative Edwardian England that was published in 2021. And I stayed up fully till two in the morning finishing it. It is a queer book about magic and murder and problem solving and love in—in Edwardian England. It's so good. I once more stayed up till about two in the morning reading the sequel, book two in this trilogy, which just came out. It's called a Restless Truth. And it's all those things I mentioned, murder, queer love, mystery, magic. But this time it set on board a ship. So you know, life couldn't be any better for me, I loved it. And now I'm going to reread the first book, so I can read the second book. This is so good. And it is going to be available for you to order from an indie bookstore near you at spiritspodcast.com/books. 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JULIA: Alright, Amanda, do you hear the—the trumpets calling. I want you to grab your mead, grab your horn of beer, grab whatever you have in hand and we've got more hunt to hear about. Alright?
AMANDA: Yeah, I'm getting thirsty from all this astral projecting as my mortal body sleeps.
JULIA: Here's a lot of—we're—we're on spectral horses, riding through the fields of Europe, everything is fine, got to quench that thirst.
AMANDA: 100%.
JULIA: So let's first talk about the German and Norse Wild Hunt. Unsurprisingly, this version of the hunt is typically led by our guy Odin.
AMANDA:Oh my god, Odin would never let anybody else lead a hunt if he was around.
JULIA: Naturally, of course not. And again, tying this back to this time of year, Odin was sometimes referred to as the Master of Yule.
AMANDA:Ohh.
JULIA: Yeaah.
AMANDA:I didn't know he was a—the forefather of Santa Claus.
JULIA: Honestly, beard. If Santa had an eyepatch, I feel like we would just be right on the money also, that would be badass of Santa, we would love that for him.
AMANDA: I would.
JULIA: So he is also the leader in the Scandinavian version, which is referred to sometimes as the terrifying ride or specifically Oden's hunt. And from author Dan McCoy. He describes Odin Hunt as such quote, It swept through the forests in midwinter, the coldest darkest part of the year. When ferocious winds and storms howled over the land. Anyone who found him or herself out of doors at night during this time might spot this ghostly procession or be spotted by it.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: Which might involve being carried away and dropped miles from where the unfortunate person had been taken up. Or worse.
AMANDA: Oh, worse?
JULIA: Or worse. Others practitioners of various forms of magic joined it voluntarily as an intangible part of them, a soul if you like, flew with the cavalcade while their bodies lay in their beds as if sleeping normally. Sometimes the members of the hunt entered towns and houses causing havoc and stealing food and drink.
AMANDA: Okay, so Julia, a lot of things are going on here. And part of me thinks, are these just really good dreams? Is somebody sleepwalking? Is somebody using the cover of night to howl a little party, a little a walkabout? Nice, old time? Seems like a lot of stuff happens in the night here, that has been kind of combined and characterized by this, you know, myth close to Odin.
JULIA: Yeah, you know what, Amanda, it's not like experiencing the Wild Hunt was something that everyone was experiencing all the time, right. So I think the idea of it being like, a wild dream, or being like a explanation for something like sleep paralysis, or sleep walking or something like that, is a really valid explanation for like, what these people were experiencing. And when you create a folklore or a mythos around it, it kind of just lends itself into the cycle of being like yeah, you know, I did wake up several miles from where I went to sleep last night.
AMANDA: Must have been, Odin.
JULIA: Must have been Odin picked me up and took me away. And—or just people going or just people disappearing into the night.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: And no one knows where they went you know, and we find out you know several years later that Tom you know, had a lady friend a couple of villages over you know.
AMANDA: Yeah you meant to come home, then he fell asleep and then the next morning you're like oh no, how did I get here.
JULIA: I really liked that as an explanation that's very very good.
AMANDA: Yeah, I feel like in the—in the like short film version of this, you know you'd go on this huge Wild Hunt and then you know, you'd like lay—lay your head down filled with like meat and venison. And then wake up in your bed and be like ah must have been a dream, and then you look uh you know, you like go to get out of bed and your feet are covered in mud you know, or something like that.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA:While you still have your shoes on.
JULIA: Oh my gosh, yes. I love that. Oh, now I'm like, picturing what a beautiful animated short like movie would be of this, and it would be really cute.
AMANDA:It is very Spirited Away.
JULIA: Yeah. Talking about Odin son. Oftentimes Odin is described leading the hunt astride, sleep near who are conspirators might remember is the eight legged horse child of Loki.
AMANDA: Yeah, love him.
JULIA: In this capacity as leader of the hunt. Odin is also seen as the gatherer of the dead. And storms are associated with Odin leading the hunt as well. So like a large storm, thunder, lightning furious winds was all evidence that the God and the hunt must be passing through. So like—
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: —even the idea of like a big winter storm passing through, is again indication that oh, The Wild Hunt must be passing by, Odin must be near, oh, they're creating all this thunderous lightning and because they're just really into this hunt.
AMANDA:Yeah. And there's all kinds of energies, and they're up there in the sky, and, you know, making all kinds of stuff happen on earth. I love that, particularly because it's one of those real sort of distancing details between mortals and the Gods where, you know, that kind of weather makes you want to not leave your house. And it is the consequence of, you know, this huge sprawling party happening.
JULIA: Yeah. And it's also kind of protective in a way, like you just mentioned, you don't want to leave your home in the middle of a storm. And this might be like a good opportunity to like teach children being like, oh, we don't want you being whisked away as part of the Wild Hunt that's clearly going on outside, listen to that storm raged outside. Don't go outside.
AMANDA: Yeah. And it's a—it's a more fun and less scary image, then, you know, oh, no, I live in a very flimsy dwelling and it's extremely windy outside.
JULIA: Exactly. Oh, god. I love that. Thank you beautiful insight as always. So as time went on, and the stories of the Wild Hunt became slightly more current, more leaders of the hunt were adapted to suit the time and place of the story being told. In England, King Arthur is sometimes said to lead the hunt. Even Charlemagne was said to be one of the leaders at one point or another. One of my favorite examples is a semi historical leader of the hunt that was named Hanns von Hackelberg, who was a leader, who either died in 1521 or 1581, who was said to have died while trying to hunt a boar, but was injured by the boars tusk and died of poisoning. Probably infection, but you know that counts as poisoning back in the day.
AMANDA: Don't worry everybody I will say it, very Robert [33:18] and I'm—I'm picking up on some themes here.
JULIA: Oh 100%. Definitely. So as he died, he declared that he had no wish to enter Heaven, Amanda.
AMANDA: My guy, what?
JULIA: Instead he wanted to spend his afterlife hunting.
AMANDA: I see.
JULIA: So his wish was granted and he was either cursed or permitted to lead the Wild Hunt for eternity, depends on your read of the situation.
AMANDA: You know, Julia I—I appreciate the humor of Norse mythology in this way, where I think other kinds of Gods more punitive Gods,more I don't know insecure Gods would be like, how dare you not want to enter heaven. I made this whole thing for you. Fuck you, go to hell. But instead they're like you know what,it's my kind of guy right here. He doesn't even want to have it. He doesn't want all that shit, he wants to hunt.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA:And you know what we— we have a way for him to do that. Like respect. Yes.
JULIA: Also like shout out to a guy being like yeah, that killed me, but like I love it still, let's fucking go. I just keep doing it.
AMANDA: Trully.
JULIA: You can't kill me again, right? I'm already dead.
AMANDA: Exactly. Kind of the dream.
JULIA: Yeah. I love that one, one of my favorites. But as I mentioned before, the English version of The Wild Hunt sometimes featured King Arthur leading the hunt.
AMANDA: Of course.
JULIA: But it's also worth noting that sometimes the fae, and hell hounds were involved in British tales of the Wild Hunt as well. In fact, the first written text of the British hellhound was actually related to the Wild Hunt.
AMANDA: Oh, I mean, it makes total sense very thematic.
JULIA: Yeah. So from 1127, this was a reference to the black shuck, which is the hellhound as written by an [34:54] Henry of [34:53]. So quote, it was the Sunday when we sing [34:57] many men both saw and heard a great number of Huntsman hunting. The Huntsman were black, huge and hideous and rode on black horses and on black he goats. And their hounds were jet black with eyes like saucers and horrible. This was seen in the very Deer Park of the town of Peterborough, and in all the woods that stretch from the same town to Stamford. And in the night the monks heard them sounding and winding their horns. And Amanda, I'm going to tell you something that's absolutely wild. The account goes on to say that at least 20 to 30 of these Huntsman stayed in the area for over 50 days through Lent, all the way to Easter.
AMANDA: Oh, damn.
JULIA: So this account is like [35:47]. Not only did we all like see these huge black hideous Huntsman riding through, and hunting through our forests, but they stayed there for like, almost two months.
AMANDA:They fully just set up camp. They're like this seems great and hung out for the full Easter season.
JULIA: Yeah, that's wild to me. I'm like, they stay there that long. What?
AMANDA: I also changed trains in Peterborough a lot when I lived in England. And so this is— this is real Julia. Imagine this happening in like Jamaica, Queens.
JULIA: That's extremely funny. I love that.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: You're like you remember Jamaica Queens before everything?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: That's where the huntsman were.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: You just like making your transfer at the train station. You're like, oh, yeah, I guess the huntsman are back. It must be lent.
AMANDA:I know. I know my—my transfer is on track seven, but I'm going to hang out on track five for a while and just look at the little hellhounds.
JULIA: I love that with their eyes [36:42].
AMANDA: That sounds cute. I don't know about you.
JULIA: It reminds me of the— the beast from the first episode of Over the Garden Wall, where he's like—
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: —you have beautiful eyes.
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: So there are a few other notable leaders of the Wild Hunt that I want to mention really quick. So Grimm suggests that the British figure of Hearn was akin to woaden or [37:01] translation of Odin.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: They both had horns, like the North version of Odin. So quote her and the hunter phantom hunter who haunts Windsor great park, impersonated by Falstaff in Shakespeare's The Merry Wives of Windsor. Though Hearn may have been an actual keeper of the forest. He was probably a local manifestation of the wild huntsmen myth known throughout the world. The usual story associated with the Wild Hunt involves someone who's like excessively fond of the chase who makes a rash pledge or a compact with a stranger, either like the devil or something akin to that, and thus is doomed to hunt forever. Hearn is said to ride at night, especially during storms. He wears horns, rattles, chains, blast trees and cattle, and occasionally appears to mortals.
AMANDA: Alright, Julia. Now what are the odds that this is a sigh up by British crown because this is their like, this is the crown's like private hunting ground, where Windsor Castle is, just to sort of make people avoid hunting the British crowns [38:05] and such.
JULIA: Oh 100%. Probably just like a poach like anti poaching myth.
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: I—I like this idea. Now in my head, I'm picturing it as Smokey the Bear. Only you can prevent poaching, fighting—
AMANDA: Exactly.
JULIA: —back running into the Wild Huntsman.
AMANDA:Yeah, like not only is it probably some kind of archaic punishment for like killing the king's goat or whatever, or not goat that's not a thing you want—
JULIA: Stag.
AMANDA: —A pig, boar, stag yeah. But you know, you might get [38:30] by her and the hunter,you never know.
JULIA: You never know. So according to other British folklore, there was also King Herla, who made a ill advised bargain with some sort of a creature sometimes it's an [38:43] sometimes it's a satyr or some other mischievious Fae being and is now doomed to ride with his host forever.
AMANDA: You can totally picture, can choose some kind of boastful King being like ah, yes, I can ride from noon tonight. I can ride better than anybody. And then the Fae is like, enjoy, and lives in you know, eternal day, riding forever.
JULIA: Incredible. From the Welsh there's also Gwynn ap Nudd, who is a character similar to Odin acting as a psychopomp, who leads fallen warriors or harvests the souls of the dead. He is the king of the fairy folk and is said to also lead a pack of supernatural hounds in the hunt that harvest human souls for him. It was said that to hear the banging of Gwynn's hounds is a portent for imminent death in your family.
AMANDA: I'm just going to say more plus than the Banshee, probably?
JULIA: Yeah, you know what, I wouldn't let a dog take my soul, if it was a nice dog. And it just like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —nuzzled me a little bit was like, alright, you gotta go, go, go now.
AMANDA:I know. I'd be like, Okay, no problem.
JULIA: The idea of like, horrifying hunting dogs. Not great. Don't love that. But like a sweet boy who's like, follow me back to the afterlife. I'd be like, okay, sweet pot, I'll do that.
AMANDA: Listen, I—I have no delusions. I—I know myself. I know my role in folklore. If a—if a sweet dog led me to certain death, I'd probably follow.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: We—we know ourselves here on the podcast we understand.
AMANDA: It's important.
JULIA: So all this to say, these were the stories that Jacob Grimm was probably pulling from when he created this unified version of The Wild Hunt. And after Jacob Grimms publication, a decent number of folklorist took up the searching questions Grimms, and question Grimms assumptions about the pre Christian origins of the hunt. Some of them found that the hunt was very much couched in the language of paganism, but were also colored by the morals of Christianity. So these stories were a lot about people being punished for sinning or wrongdoing in a way that feels very purgatory-y, which these folklorist point out is a very Christian concept and one unlikely tied with the pre Christian beliefs.
AMANDA: It makes total sense.
JULIA: Yeah, of course. So there are a couple of great examples of the Wild Hunt being featured in art and literature. If you have a chance, check out the painting the Wild Hunt of Odin by Peter Nicolai Arbo.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah, topless ladies.
JULIA: It's stunning.
AMANDA: Yeah, huge hammers. Wow.
JULIA: Really like beautiful artwork too, and like the hunt is risen over this really stark field. So the mortal plane looks so barren compared to the like full, like theory-ness of the hunt that's taking place above it.
AMANDA:Yeah, the—the cre—like the sheep of the hunt. It's like they're emerging from a cloud. And the birds flying in the sky are below where the hunt is. Like they are even above the level of like the crows flying.
JULIA: Exactly. So this is—
AMANDA:Very Pretty.
JULIA: —a gorgeous painting, was painted in 1872. And the Wild Hunt also became a pretty major theme in British novels, especially in the 1960s and 70s, mainly because of a resurgence in interest by folklorists at that time. So these novels were focused mainly for children and young adults, where the genre drew from older mythology, folklore and other fantasy elements. So the first of note in this resurgence was Alan Garner's The Moon of Gomrath, which was a story of children mixed up in a contest between the forces of good and evil naturally, including wizards, witches, elves, dwarves and other fantastical beings set in rural East Cheshire.
AMANDA: Incredible. I'm also remembering now that one of my favorite plays I've ever seen, Jerusalem by Jez Butterworth, also mentions the Wild Hunt.
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: It's all about like the rewilding and like primeval spirits of England. I was remembering where I had this like spectral like memory of it. And that's where.
JULIA: Well actually that's really interesting, Amanda because in—in the novel, The Hunt is not a force of good or evil. But it's this third force, the force of the old magic, which is a more like primeval and amoral source of power that was embedded in the natural world and then reawakened by the children in the novel. Which I love this idea of just like, yeah, there's good and evil. And then there's this third secret thing that is the like spirits of the old gods and the old magic.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: The Wild Hunt would also show up again, in the Wild Hunt of Hagworthy, which was by Penelope Lively, which was set in the hills of West Somerset. And in that novel, The Hunt embodied a common theme and fiction produced by modern society emerging from Christian influence. This fear of what may happen if the forces from a quote unquote “pagan past”, lying dormant or imprisoned by the land.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: Are set free again. And we've been talking about that a lot. We talked about that in our Poltergeist episode too, this fear of, oh, what if this thing that we harmed or suppressed in the past is going to waken and get their revenge on us.
AMANDA: Yeah, and I think that underlies a lot of kind of like emerging 20th century mundanities fears and like morality policing is, you know, no, no, no, we have to, like keep a really firm hand on all of these things, because it's by forsaking them or suppressing them, or distancing ourselves from them. That all of our like, quote, you know, good modern innovations come from right. Like order, means you have to shove away all the reminders of chaos, because I think it—it sees society as like, tipping toward chaos, if given any, like we're teetering, you know, on like, a perfectly held tower of cards. And if anything, moves, or there is like, a distraction of a fun thing over there, then, you know, everything is tumbling down.
JULIA: Yeah. 100%. I think that the Wild Hunt as it's used in this period of time, and also in a lot of modern storytelling is like this kind of fear or either a fear that this is going to come back or a, oh, I wish for the days of nostalgia past when we were more in touch with the earth and etc, etc, etc. You know what I mean?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Also, just a quick shout out to my fans of The Black Cauldron, the undead. armies helmed by the horned King were almost definitely influenced by the Wild Hunt as well. And of course there are practitioners of modern witchcraft that incorporate the Wild Hunt into their beliefs and practices. From what I've seen most modern traditions position the Greek goddess [45:21] as the leader of the hunt, and just in general, if you have some interest in learning more about the Wild Hunt, I definitely want to recommend Ronald Hutton's work. I read a quote from his work earlier but especially his essay, The Wild Hunt and modern British imagination is very, very good. There's also another book that I want to recommend checking out as well. And that is Claude Lecouteux
Phantom Armies of the Night: The Wild Hunt and the Ghostly Processions of the Undead.
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: So if you have any interest in those things, check it out. I think we're going to be talking about some figures from the Wild Hunt a little bit more going into the new year.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: So keep an eye out for that and listeners the next time that you are out in a storm and you see a spectral retinue writing by, remember—
JULIA: To stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
[theme]
AMANDA: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
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JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye!