Episode 263: The Holiday RomCom
/We’re bombarded every year by various holiday romcoms, so Amanda has offered to take us by the hand and lead us through the tropes that make these movies both terrible and incredibly enjoyable.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of heteronormativity, infidelity, surgery, strained family relationships, dismemberment, and foreclosure.
Housekeeping
- MERCH! Get the Mothman Crewneck at spiritspodcast.com/merch!
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends Black Sun by Rebecca Roanhorse.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Check out HORSE: A podcast about ridiculous stories, internet drama, and some of the biggest and baddest personalities out there today—all from the world of basketball.
Sponsors
- Milk Bar puts unique spins on iconic flavors and is the perfect gift for anyone and everyone in your life. Get $10 off any order of $50 or more by going to milkbarstore.com/SPIRITS.
- She’s Birdie is a personal safety alarm. Get 15% off your first purchase at shesbirdie.com/spirits
- Tab for a Cause is a free browser extension that lets you earn money for charity as you browse the web. Join Team Spirits at tabforacause.com/spirits.
Find Us Online
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests’ books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books.
Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And this Episode 263, The Holiday RomCom and all its mythologies and ups and downs and glory and heartache and a game. There's a lot to love here, folks.
JULIA: There really is. And it's a bit of a departure from what we usually do for these kind of myth movie night episodes and we're trying some things different that we're hoping to take over into the new year so we hope you like it.
AMANDA: We do hope you like it. We know though that we like our new patrons: Candice, Zoe, Tabitha, and Casey. Thank you so very much for pledging your hard earned human dollars to support a small business, independent creators like us. We so appreciate it. Thanks to our Supporting-producer level patrons: Uhleeseeuh, Hannah, Jack Marie, Jane, Jessica Kinser, Jessica Stewart, Kneazlekins, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, Scott, and Zazi. And our Legend-level patrons: Audra, Bex, Clara, Drew, Jaybaybay, Lexus, Mary, Morgan, Mother of Vikings, Sarah, Taylor, & Bea Me Up Scotty.
JULIA: You all, I hope that if you want to you can be taken away to a Christmas Town and fall in love with, I don't know, like, an architect or something? Who knows?
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like, wake up in the third generation of a small family business that is struggling but maybe through the media, but maybe through the magic of, like, I don't know, TikTok, could suddenly find a whole new audience.
JULIA: I love that.
AMANDA: Now, Julia, before the call, you are really, really excited to tell me about the book you're reading. Why don't you share with me and with the conspirators what you've been enjoying?
JULIA: Oh, Amanda, it's called Black Sun by Rebecca Roanhorse, and ugh, gosh, it's got everything. It's got, like, indigenous North American mythology. It's got different clans. It's got different character perspectives, and points of view, which I know you love, and I love. I love switching things up.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: And I am just, like, I'm at the climax of the story right now because the whole story is counting down to this one event.
AMANDA: Oh my gosh.
JULIA: I'm, like, two days away from the event and I'm so very excited.
AMANDA: I love that. I love a ticking clock book and I know that you and I both love an alternate point of view book.
JULIA: I feel like that meme of the woman from Drunk History where it's, like, I had to stop reading about this book because I started going crazy. Like, the one character would say,I just scream.
AMANDA: That sounds amazing. And as always, you can find a link to buy a Black Sun at spiritspodcast.com/books. And if you're looking for a new podcast to fill your earbuds as you're walking to your local independent bookstore to pick up your copy of Black Sun, you should check out Horse. This is a podcast all about the ridiculous stories, internet drama, and some of the biggest and baddest personalities out there today. All of the above comes from the world of basketball. Hosts Adam Mamawala and Mike Schubert want the world to know how amazing the history and culture of basketball is. And there are a year's worth of episodes for you to listen to and catch up on for Horse. So, check out Horse in your podcast app or go to horsehoops.com to learn more about the show.
JULIA: I feel like if you'd like holiday tropes you'll also like Horse because they kind of talk about those weird happenstances, but in real life and in basketball.
AMANDA: Even better. Well, Julia, I know that you want to get back to your book and I know the listeners are going to love this holiday episode, so everybody, have a great week and enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 263: The Holiday RomCom. Julia, Eric, Welcome to Amanda makes a case for why romance is a useful and valuable trope.
JULIA: Oh, hello.
ERIC: Okay. Okay.
JULIA: This is a new segment here on the show. What's up?
AMANDA: Yes, it's a new genre. We're trying some new stuff next year that I'm very excited about and one of them is going to be, like, examining. Like, roundups of tropes in myth tropes, tropes and myths, myths tropes and pop culture. All kinds of stuff. And one of the things that we want to do is, like, all take a different weird/good holiday romcom, perhaps bad spoiler, mine's bad. And talk about them and what the tropes are and why they are and what they mean. And I'm just very excited to be here.
JULIA: I'm also excited to be here. I love this idea, Amanda. I'm really glad that you took the initiative to come up with it and I'm really excited to talk about it.
ERIC: I was thrilled to be included in Spirits celebrates lady in red dress, guy in green sweater-athon.
JULIA: Or vice versa. I am looking at the poster for mine or one of mine. And my lady is in a green dress and the guy is in a red sweater. That's the only reason I brought it up.
ERIC: You got to watch a different movie because we're celebrating lady in red dress guy in green sweater-athon.
JULIA: Oh my mistake, my mistake.
AMANDA: My movie is Kathina Jimmy in holiday apparel and two men who are falling in love. So, you know, it's a whole lot of things available to us. But first, guys, I wanted to check in, how is your month of holiday? Here in the McLaughlin-Silver household, I already had Hanukkah. So, that was the, you know, our present exchanging and latke making and, you know, having a fun time, but how about y'all?
JULIA: It's good. So, my apartment is rather small and since we are planning on moving out of it soon, we didn't really decorate for this year. So, we don't have an apartment sized tree and I can't break out all of my cool funky Christmas ornaments, but we do celebrate by: one, making a lot of cookies, which we haven't started yet, but it's coming. I can feel it on the air. I can smell the butter and the sugar on the air. But we do celebrate by watching just all of the Christmas Hallmark movies that we can get our hands on. So, that's why I was very excited about taking on this mantle.
ERIC: We haven't done too much festive stuff, but we... We've got our tree up and we've got a handful of decorations. We're not big, like, holiday decorators, but we have a few things from-- from our childhood and stuff that we put up around the house. And other than that just planning on our big travel plans for the Christmas time events and figuring out all that. But yeah, it's-- it's been good so far. I really like the tree being lit when I come down now that it's daylight savings time. It's on a timer, so when I come downstairs, it's already got a nice glow down there instead of being, like, pitch black at 5pm. That's not a complaint about the time change. The time change is nothing, it's very simple to get used to, but it's nice to just kind of have, like, not walking into darkness when you-- when you-- when you enter the living room.
AMANDA: Totally. I think the menorah plays a similar role where, you know, you light it-- you just meant to light it kind of just before sundown where they're still 30 minutes or so of dark enough that people can see it from outside but not so dark that no one's outside. So, part of the symbolism is like, "Hey, like, look, you know, we want to share and show you guys that this is happening." So, you light it just before pure dark and then by the time the menorah goes out then it's like, oh okay, it's proper dark. It's like 10pm. Fair enough. I think that the fact that so many human beings are like, "Hey, it's quite a dark time of year and we want some kind of excuse to, like, celebrate and use lights," is very fun and happens across all kinds of winter holidays.
JULIA: We love that. Bringing light to darkness. That's what all the winter holidays are really about.
ERIC: Yeah, it's very nice
AMANDA: And fake fiance's to Christmas dinner.
JULIA: Yes.
ERIC: Oh boy. Oh boy.
JULIA: So, Amanda, do you want us to start by, like, giving some explanations of the movies that we watched or do you want to kind of give us the tropes as we go? How do you want to do this?
AMANDA: First, I would love to hear from you guys. So, we all know here on Spirits that I've gotten very into reading romance as an escapist hobby during the pandemic, particularly.
JULIA: Sure. Sure.
AMANDA: Julia and I both have, like, read fan-fiction and loved it since we were kids, which takes a lot from romance and Schneider as a movie fan, like, I know that you love different movie tropes and examining them. What are your feelings on RomComs as a genre? Is it a thing you find silly? How about holiday RomComs?
ERIC: Yeah. I mean, I don't have a ton of experience in the-- in the RomCom. specifically like the modern Hallmark Netflix ones but I mean, RomComs are a pretty, like, well established genre of film going back to, like, the 40s. There's some, like, killer. Old school romcoms on the criterion channel if you have that. I mean, they're great. I think there's a lot of stuff. I think those older ones are really fun because they always have, like, the triple threats where you yell and a little dancing in them too. I feel like there's not enough --
JULIA: Oh yeah.
ERIC: -- dancing and, like, singing in the– in the modern RomComs. But yeah, I think they do get a bad rap. I think much like Fast and Furious. These movies know what they are, and they are not meeting you at, like, "Oh, this is some other thing." And you know what you're getting and it delivers on what you're getting. Now, there's-- there's some wide variation on quality within that genre? Of course, but like, what something is doing is what it's doing and you can't fault it for not being [8:22] or citizen gain just because it's a RomCom. It's a RomCom and there are good RomComs and there are bad RomComs within that lane.
AMANDA: There totally are.
JULIA: I think that's fair. I do like that usually in Christmas RomComs, we do get at least a little bit of singing and a little bit of dancing typically.
ERIC: Yes.
JULIA: But I agree that there should be more singing and dancing in all RomComs across the board.
AMANDA: So, with this grounding of kind of all of our experiences with it, and I just, like, I eat RomComs up. I love them a lot. Julia, I know that you went above and beyond the call of duty here. We asked each of us to choose a holiday streaming movie and watch it. I heard you chose several.
JULIA: So, I chose two. One, because I chose my initial one, which is Christmas Under Wraps. A classic hallmark one. It's from 2014. I will tell you a little bit about it later. But then, I heard that you guys didn't really enjoy your movies.
AMANDA: It was bad.
JULIA: And I felt bad about that. And I was already in the process of watching a new one from Netflix, which is A Castle for Christmas, and I decided to bring that one as well.
ERIC: A castle for Christmas? They've amust have reached their Patreon goal.
AMANDA: Like us, maybe one day we too can have a castle for Christmas.
JULIA: That would be nice.
AMANDA: Tell us about these movies, Julia. So, we'll go through the plots of each of them and then I think we'll-- we'll do a little-- a little pull 'em on back and talk about tropes and why they mean something and what it means to, like, make these movies part of our annual traditions.
JULIA: Awesome. So I'll start with Christmas Under Wraps because that was my initial pick. And it's one of my classics because it is truly buck-wild when I explain the concept to you.
AMANDA: Yes!
JULIA: There's really no plot to it, but there is this weird subplot to it that I can't fully explain. So, the basic idea of the thing is an aspiring surgeon is turned down from a fellowship, so she takes a temporary position working as a general practitioner in a small Alaskan town in an effort to boost her resume.
AMANDA: Incredible.
ERIC: That classic surgeon to typical doctor path that everyone does. It's not that you pick a lane and stick to one of those two, you bounce between the two.
JULIA: That's literally what Fellowships are supposed to be, specialization, but whatever. So, this has Candace Cameron Bure, who you might remember as the oldest daughter DJ from Full House.
ERIC: Of course.
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: And she is in a lot of hallmark movies, let me tell you. So many, so very many. But she plays the doctor; Dr. Lauren Brunell. And she is, you know, like, a aspiring great doctor at the beginning of the movie. She's like, "Oh, thank you for helping me assist in the surgery." And the, like, elder doctor, the mentor doctor is like, "Dr. Brunell, you did the surgery. You get to tell the family that he's gonna be okay." She's like, "Okay, great." And of course, in classic Hallmark Christmas movie fashion, she also has a bad boyfriend at the beginning, because that's always something that they have is, like, someone who is not right for them. And then they either break up or there's, like, a miscommunication and she falls in love with someone else while they're still dating.
AMANDA: Oh, yes.
JULIA: Which is, you know, it is what it is. But anyway, she gets broken up with because she thinks Bad Boyfriend is going to propose. He's actually like, "No, I'm actually going to break up with you." And so, she decides to, like, take a chance because she doesn't get the fellowship she wants and take a chance by going off to this town called Garland Alaska.
AMANDA: Oh, what a Hallmark Christmas name.
ERIC: Mhmm.
JULIA: Oh, it gets so much worse, in the best possible way. So, she goes to Garland, she gets to the airport, and she meets this guy there whose name is Andy Holliday , because of course it is.
ERIC: Wow. Okay.
JULIA: And we find out that he is, like, the handyman around town, but he also used to be an architect who lived in Seattle, but he moved back to Garland because his dad runs the family business in Garland, which is holiday shipping.
ERIC: Oh, holiday shipping?
AMANDA: Mhmm.
JULIA: Holiday Shipping.
ERIC: Oh, the company is named Holiday Shipping.
JULIA: Yes.
ERIC: I thought it was-- I thought it's specialized in just shipping stuff during the holidays. I was like, "That's not sustainable at all."
JULIA: No, not quite. And so, she gets there. And like, almost immediately they kind of start using this phrase that makes it seem like the town is a cult. Where it's like she's-- she, like, points out weird stuff that's happening in the town. And they're just like, "That's Garland for you." And they say that throughout the entire movie. Anytime something weird happens they're like, "That's Garland for you." She's like, "I tried to order warm clothes online because I'm from San Francisco and I wasn't prepared for Alaska." And they're like, "Oh, yeah, you know, no one ships up here. Only Holiday Shipping ships out." And she's like, "That makes no sense." And they're like, "That's Garland for you." What's happening?
ERIC: Oh, no.
AMANDA: Julia, I've also read a number of romances set in Alaska and it's a very common sight, you know, as we'll talk about, like, the trope of, like, remoteness and, like, cutting off access and stuff. You know, forces reckoning in a way that other settings and plots don't, but the logistics of shipping things to Alaska, I feel like I'm now an expert having read, you know, five or 10 books, which involve people from outside Alaska being unable to get things because it's Alaska and everyone's like, "Yeah, it's Alaska." Like, what do you want?
JULIA: Yes. It's, like, truly just this movie is so buck-wild. I'm going to get to, like, the weird subplot now. So, eventually, we meet Andy's dad, Frank Holliday, right? And Frank, immediately upon meeting him, Dr. Brunell is like, "Has anyone ever told you you look like Santa Claus?" And he's like, "Hahaha," and then just doesn't, like, respond to that at all. And also, fun fact, Frank is played by Brian Doyle Murray who is Bill Murray's brother.
ERIC: Oh.
AMANDA: What? Oh, yeah. Okay. I see the Bill Murray resemblance here.
JULIA: Mhmm. Mhmm. So, he's there. He's playing Frank. And so, basically, she's just, like, doing doctor stuff. It's, like, becomes very apparent that this is an extremely small town because she, like, treats someone for, like, a cut on his leg. And then, like, literally the next scene, someone has sent her flowers and she's like, "I just released that person. How did you know that I did that?" And it's just, like-- it's just wild. And anyway, they– they continue on, she's, like, just is getting to know this guy a lot more, etc, etc. At one point, he takes her on a date.
ERIC: A holidate?
JULIA: A holidate. Yes. We'll get-- we'll get to that later. But he takes her on a date where they get onto a plane. And she's like, "Oh, this is beautiful. This is the date?" He's like, "No," and then he just, like, takes her into the middle of the woods. They sit on a bench and they look at the Northern Lights.
AMANDA: Okay, I mean, it's a pretty good date.
JULIA: And so, like, the main conflict is that she finds out that she actually got the fellowship in Boston or whatever. But now she's trying to decide whether or not to stay here and, like, what the thing that, like, she's leaving and the thing that makes her stay is the fact that they asked her to come back. They're like, "Rudy hurt his leg. We need you Doctor!" And she's like, "Okay, I'm coming back immediately." And so, she comes back and Rudy is of course a reindeer.
AMANDA: Oh man.
ERIC: Oh.
AMANDA: Oh, wow. But she's not-- she's not a deer doctor, she's a person doctor.
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: The classic assumption that human doctors and vets can do the same things.
JULIA: Mhmm. They can't. They really can't.
ERIC: Y'all see that video of a reindeer running the other day? Have you ever seen how these-- these guys run?
JULIA: No.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: Is it scary?
ERIC: Their bodies don't move.
JULIA: What?
ERIC: Their legs just move and their bodies they're perfectly parallel and it's apparently much more energy efficient.
AMANDA: Oh yeah.
JULIA: Sure. Like a cheetah.
AMANDA: Yeah.
ERIC: Yeah. It's so weird. Like, because every other deer or four-legged animal has the whole, like, not gallop the horse is the galloping one. But like, cheetahs, everything runs and, like, the whole body moves. Not reindeer, just horizontal body the whole time.
AMANDA: Here's a question for you.
JULIA: Mhmm.
AMANDA: Predator coming toward you out of the bush.
ERIC: Mhmm.
AMANDA: Would you rather it's a reindeer and the body is still but just the legs move?
ERIC: Right.
AMANDA: Or it's a reindeer-sized chicken where the head is focused on you but the body and wings and everything else is moving?
JULIA: That's a velociraptor, Amanda. What you've described is a velociraptor and I want no part of it.
AMANDA: But you know how chickens, like, they have, like, the gyroscopic thing?
JULIA: Yeah, yeah.
AMANDA: Where, like, the head stays still? Yeah, I think that's creepier.
ERIC: Yeah, I would rather take my chances with-- with the reindeer. I feel like I could handle the blunt force trauma of the reindeer more than the pecking and sharp little teeth of a giant chicken.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: I'm realizing what we did today is basically record an Urban Legends episode but the urban legends are instead hallmark movies and I'm really enjoying it.
JULIA: Yes, that's great, though. So, to finish out this movie, she decides to stay but, like, the whole entire movie; and this is the weird subplot. It's just heavily, heavily implying that Frank is Santa Claus and that Andy one day is going to have to take over the business. Like, at one point, she's invited over to their house for dinner, which is not really dinner. It's just milk and cookies and she sees, like, an elf run by. And she's like, "I just saw an elf." And Andy's like, "What are you talking about? That's Garland for you." And then invites her inside. At one point, like, one of the workers at Holiday Shipping is injured on the job, which is not great. And he's like, "Oh, I hurt my hand." She's like, "How did you hurt your hand?" He's like, "Oh, with a hammer." And then pulls out, like, a tiny little hammer. He's like, "It's a toy-making hammer." And she's like, "Okay, okay, sure." And the movie just ends where it's, like, Frank comes out and Andy turns to Dr. Brunell and is like, "Listen, there's something that I haven't told you about Garland and my family." And she's like, "That's Garland for you!" And then we just see Frank fly away in the sled with a reindeer. And that's the end of the movie.
ERIC: Wow.
AMANDA: Oh, wow.
JULIA: It's never addressed. It's never outright stated. It just happens.
AMANDA: Wow. I feel like I've seen the whole movie, Julia. That was a very good summary.
JULIA: Thank you. I tried my best. It's one that I watch almost every year so I know it very well.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Truly, truly buck-wild. Now, Amanda, tell me the tropes behind that, because I know bad boyfriend, obviously a trope here.
AMANDA: It definitely is. As is, you know, a high-powered city lady who finds greater fulfillment in a small town.
JULIA: Mhmm.
AMANDA: And lots of the tropes that we're going to talk about today; they're heteronormative. They're not great. Like, they, you know, they have roots that are like, "Oh, you know, surely you can't have it all in the big city making money. What you really need is, you know, to, like, be someone's wife." And ultimately, we can, like, take from this what we want, you know? We can take from it, the feeling that, you know, sometimes you do, like, follow the career ladder, and you're like, "God, you know, surely there is more than this." And finding neighbors, finding community, finding purpose, finding a place where you're needed and wanted is really nice. I want to, like, give us permission to, you know, to take from these things, what makes us feel cozy and comfy and point to the ways in which it's not inclusive and say, you know, not-- not my version of this.
JULIA: That's fair. I feel like there is a certain, like, appeal to the smaller town charm living that especially the Hallmark movies try to do with their Christmas films. You're absolutely right. It's always the high-powered lady comes to small town and discovers Oh, the true meaning of Christmas because obviously the true meaning Christmas doesn't exist in big cities, Amanda.
AMANDA: Yes. And these movies are very white. They are very Christian, particularly the Hallmark ones are almost all Christmas-centric. It's not until recent years where we've had, like, a token Hanukkah movie, a token movie with a black lead, a token movie that, you know, is set somewhere without snow. And so, this is something that's ongoing and I think other streaming services are trying to add to the body of work as well. And Emily VanDerWerff, past and future guest, wrote a really great article deep dive in 2018. All about the Hallmark movie Industrial Complex, and how there's, like, Hallmark cons. And they make, like, dozens of Christmas movies a year and this as a sort of content mill, which is really fascinating. And we will link to in the description.
JULIA: You know what's also extremely fascinating that I found doing some research on the Hallmark films?
AMANDA: Tell me.
JULIA: Almost all of them were horror directors before they got roles in the Hallmark films. Like, before they directed Hallmark films.
AMANDA: Well, wow, I love that. There are a lot of-- there a lot of jokes, but also talk about genre players. Like, you know, we were saying earlier, you know the genre tropes and you know how to tell effective stories in a limited time. A useful thing here, which maybe is obvious to other people, but wasn't obvious to me at first is that RomComs and romance generally is all about circumstance. And a holiday romance is a perfect pressure cooker of circumstance. Like, think about the things that holidays involve, right? They're big events, there are high stakes gatherings, there are atypical mixes of people, you're getting together or going places that you wouldn't do other times of year. And also, each of us confronting our expectations for our lives and our families and our roles in our families and our-- and their roles in our lives. And it's just a real kind of pressure cooker situation.
JULIA: Yeah, there's nothing more stressful than the holidays, so adding having to fall in love on top of everything definitely creates conflict, which is what movies need.
AMANDA: They do.
ERIC: There's definitely a solution for all of that stress around the holidays.
AMANDA: Oh, what is it?
JULIA: Is it having a holidate?
ERIC: It's having a holidate. And we'll get to that holidate right after this refill.
AMANDA: Eggnog for me. We are sponsored this week by Tab for a Cause, one of our oldest sponsors and one that I love to recommend because this is a way that you can raise money for charity by just doing your thing online and opening up new tabs, which I do dozens of times a day, every day long. They basically are a browser extension that is open source, also the code for their tab page, their browser extensions, and even their own website are open source, which is amazing. And they publish quarterly financial reports, so you can see how much they give to each charity and what all the other costs of running the company are. But basically, you just install it and then they show you a pretty image and an ad as you're opening up a new tab, and that ad money raises money for charity. You're doing ads, but for good.
JULIA: It's great.
AMANDA: It's great stuff and you can sign up for Team Spirits and we can see each month how much money Team Spirits raises just by using Tab for a Cause. And it's so exciting because it's like, hey, we're all just living our lives and giving back a little bit at tabforacause.org/spirits. That's tabforacause.org/spirits.
JULIA: Amanda, did you know that you can actually win the holidays this year?
AMANDA: What?
JULIA: Yeah, you can actually take your traditional holiday gifts or your holiday desserts and you can notch it up to 11 with an epic Milk Bar treat. You might have heard of Milk Bar. It was started by Christina Tosi in 2008 and she has been wowing the world with her unique spin on iconic flavors ever since. They make the perfect gift for anyone and everyone in your life and they have some incredible bestsellers, like their signature birthday cake, they have the salty sweet compost cookie, they have my personal favorite which is the Milk Bar Pie which is a toasted oak crust with a gooey butter center.
AMANDA: And those seasonal treats, Julia, like my favorite, the peppermint pretzel snaps. Give me covered with anything-pretzel, I'll enjoy it, but these ones are so delicious.
JULIA: But you can get it overnight nationwide delivery. Just order it. They're flash frozen so it keeps it nice and fresh and they offer that very quick delivery. I absolutely am ordering one to bring to Christmas at my mother-in-law's this year because I want that sweet, sweet pie and it's a bonus for everyone else that they also get it.
AMANDA: And you can get it delivered right to her house so you don't have to travel with it which is amazing.
JULIA: Exactly! And right now, Milk Bar has a special limited time offer. You can get $10 off any order of $50 or more when you go to milkbarstore.com/spirits. You'll get 10 bucks off an order of $50 by going to milkbarstore.com/spirits. milkbarstore.com/spirits.
AMANDA: And finally, Julia, we are sponsored by She's Birdie. And in your normal life, taking a walk around your neighborhood running errands wherever you're going, you want to feel safe and sometimes that peace of mind can be in the form of a personal safety alarm like birdie, which is easy to carry and simple to use. Basically, you pull this adorably colorful keychain and birdie has a strobe light in a loud 130 decibel siren. So, unlike something like pepper spray, Birdie is not a danger to you. It can just be something that you can carry and feel confident with and know that you can use if you need to call attention to yourself. And it can also go wherever you do. It has an adorable brass keychain like I said and comes in many colors, so you can put one in each bag or attach it to your keys or do whatever is useful for you. You can also read reviews from real users on their website and join their flock. Right now, She's Birdie is offering our listeners 15% off your first purchase when you go to shesbirdie.com/spirits. Go to She's Birdie spelled S H E S B I R D I E.com/spirits for 15% off your first purchase. That's shesbirdie.com/spirits. And now, let's get back to the show. Guys, this week, this episode, we are drinking some mead. Some craft mead that was sent to us by a listener. Huge shout outs to Maddie and Maggie who have sent us amazing mead from a kosher woman run bee corp, cidery in Vermont, Groennfell. We love it.
JULIA: It's so delicious. I saw Amanda this past week and when I was in the office, she's like, "Hey," just, like, pushed some mead towards me be like, "Take this home with you." I was like.
ERIC: Take this mead.
JULIA: I'll sneak it in my backpack. Okay. I feel scandalous, like I'm a 17-year-old trying to drink under the age again.
AMANDA: It's incredible. It's like cider. Like, there is a hopped mead that smells like a beer but tastes like a cider. There's the cranberry mead which is my favorite which is kind of like a sour but not quite as bitter. It's like a– like a lovely kind of fruity light cider, but it's mead. It's naturally gluten free. God, it's so good. If you are in Vermont or in the northeast and able to find Groennfell Meadery I highly recommend it. You can also buy it online.
JULIA: Check it out. It's so good. I like the amber one. That one's my favorite, I think.
AMANDA: And you know a conspirator is the CFO so, you know, what more could you like?
JULIA: That's how you know it's good.
AMANDA: So, Eric, I have a lot of holiday problems. Can you tell me how I can find a holidate?
ERIC: So yeah, so I watched the movie Holidate because I saw a tweet about it, like, a week before we decided to do this episode.
JULIA: Oh no, Eric.
ERIC: I said that that's the one I'm gonna pick and I did and I'm not going to be too down on this movie. I'm going to try to stay as positive as possible, but I will say, this is a movie for horny Republicans.
AMANDA: Oh.
ERIC: It's very strange. It's a very strange experience. The movie starts with Emma Roberts learning from her very horny and played by Kristin Chenoweth.
JULIA: Fuck yeah.
ERIC: That what you should do for the holidays to not get questions about things is just pick up a random person and have them be your holidate. So then, no one asks you about this. So, Emma Roberts then meets this fine fellow, this Australian lad. He becomes her holidate for a series of holidays throughout the film.
JULIA: So, it's not just a Christmas movie.
ERIC: It's not just a Christmas movie. Honestly, it's primarily not a Christmas movie it turns out. It starts at Christmas and the trailer made it look very Christmas-centric, but it's not all super Christmasy. But I mean, like, it's very holiday-ey still so, like, all this stuff could be happening at Christmas.
JULIA: Still a RomCom.
ERIC: It's still a RomCom. I say, the thing about this movie that is particularly strange is it feels like it was made by someone who wants to harken back to a time that simply doesn't exist anymore because both the meet-cute one of the holidates another scene and the climax happened at a mall.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: Huh.
ERIC: Just the mall. The mall is a primary location in this film, as if everyone is at the mall. They bump into each other at the mall multiple times. It's wild.
JULIA: I mean, maybe this person who wrote this film was also a child of the, like, mid 2000s. And so, that's what we did with ourselves was we went to the mall because --
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: -- we had no way of doing things.
ERIC: Yeah.
AMANDA: Yeah. Or like access to places and this is really interesting Schneider because my movie is kind of like pandering to coastal millennials in the way that yours is perhaps like mid country Republicans. That's-- that's very funny.
ERIC: Yeah, it's very strange. I also-- I mentioned that it's horny, because they use a lot of, like, lingo that just feels like they want to sex it up, but it's not written cleverly in any particular way. So, they just say things that are, like, unnecessary and strange and just very strange.
JULIA: Was it mostly from Kristin Chenoweth? Because I feel like that's her specialty.
ERIC: A lot of it was from Kristin Chenoweth.
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: But it's kind of --
AMANDA: Yeah.
ERIC: -- across the board with, like, every character just saying something kind of strange and provocative and, like, unnecessary swearing. There's a character that's real tight buttoned, where they just make her say fuck a lot. And it's just, like, what?
AMANDA: Really?
ERIC: Like-- like, a one character forces the other character to just say, "Fuck," a lot and it's just very strange. So, the basic plot is, Emma Roberts meets this man at the mall. Shockingly. They come up with a holidate idea because Kristin Chenoweth had told her a Christmas holidate. And then, they go on a series of holidates throughout the year. And obviously, they have a falling out at one of the holidates. And then, they bring it back together at another holidate. And then, they do the whole call out to him in the crowd at the mall also.
JULIA: Classic.
ERIC: Just a truly, truly spectacular experience, but I've brought to this episode a game.
AMANDA: Oh?
ERIC: Titled holidate or don't.
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: Oh my god, incredible.
ERIC: In which I will be listing off a number of holidays, and you will be telling me if you need to bring a holidate to them. Now, remember, the premise of the holidate is so that your family isn't asking you questions. Why aren't you married? Where are the kids? Blah, blah, blah. This is to avoid questions. I've brought a date. I've done my job.
AMANDA: Fascinating.
JULIA: I will say as an adult, you'll still get those questions even if you bring a date to a holiday.
ERIC: It's true.
AMANDA: Yeah. And like we've said on previous episodes, you can always say things like, "What a strange question to ask. That seems personal. Quite invasive Aunt Minge. I'm going to go get ice. Excuse me." Lots of ways to deal with this, but Schneider, loving the premise.
ERIC: Yeah.
AMANDA: Let's go.
ERIC: So, let's start. I think we'll just go straight through the year.
JULIA: Okay.
ERIC: New Year's Eve.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Oh, I think holi-don't just find a-- find a stranger to kiss. You know what I mean?
ERIC: Now it is. Yes. Bring a holidate to New Year's Eve.
JULIA: Oh, there's definitive answers to these. Okay, good.
ERIC: Oh, yes. I will be telling you if the movie presents this as a scene in which a holidate is present.
JULIA: Okay.
AMANDA: Sure. You need a holidate?
ERIC: The answer is yes. In the movie, they have brought a holidate.
AMANDA: You can't show up to Christmas with your holidate and then break up by New Year's, right? So, like, you got to do it.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: I feel like New Year's is the correct choice because if you're at a party, and it's mostly all other couples, you're just not going to get that kissin'.
ERIC: Right. Here we go. The Super Bowl?
JULIA: No.
AMANDA: Oh. Yeah. I think they would want you to bring a holidate to a Super Bowl party.
ERIC: The answer is no. The Super Bowl is not featured in Holidate.
AMANDA: Oh, of course not. Guys, I'm so stupid because they would have to call it the Big Game.
JULIA: Yeah. Yeah, cuz they legally cannot use the term --
AMANDA: Fuck!
JULIA: -- Super Bowl.
AMANDA: Fuck.
ERIC: Does the movie present Valentine's Day in the Holidate?
JULIA: I feel like that's not one that you celebrate with your family.
ERIC: Hmm.
JULIA: So, I wouldn't feel obligated to bring a holidate.
ERIC: Right. Amanda?
AMANDA: I agree with that logic.
ERIC: Okay. Well, the movie does have a scene from Valentine's Day. Now, this is one where once again they're at the mall, she runs into an X and he sees her because he's also at the ball because they're always at the mall.
JULIA: Ah.
ERIC: And jumps in and is the holidate, but they're not going out and celebrating it. So, I would say you are correct, but the movie does show up anyways.
JULIA: Okay.
ERIC: St. Patrick's Day.
JULIA: So I know the movie does have this because I've seen the trailer, but I disagree that one needs a holidate for St. Patrick's Day.
ERIC: Yes, I've been single on a number of St. Patrick's days and never received any questions about it.
JULIA: It's fine.
ERIC: Because you're just drinking with friends all day.
AMANDA: Great day to be single. Eric Silver did say to me the other day, "Amanda, it's 100 days until St. Patrick's Day, start preparing." And my siblings thought that was the funniest joke they've ever heard.
ERIC: Let's go with Easter.
JULIA: Probably.
ERIC: The resurrection of Christ.
JULIA: Also, given-- given that this movie is for horny Republicans, I'm gonna say yes.
ERIC: Mmh.
AMANDA: However, do you want to depict high jinks on-- on Easter Christianity's big holy holiday?
ERIC: Oh, do you?
JULIA: This movie does say fuck a lot, so I wouldn't be surprised.
AMANDA: I guess so. I mean, it's all about fertility, right?
ERIC: The answer is yes. And are there high jinks? Kristin Chenoweth wears a playboy bunny outfit to this holiday.
JULIA: Oh, fuck yeah she does.
AMANDA: Kristin!
JULIA: I love this for her!
AMANDA: I just want to point out that if nothing else watching holiday RomComs is really worth it because there are a number of actors in their 50s and 60s who are just, like, living a really laudable, like, spinster or older woman, or just, like, wine-aunt life. Like, my movie has Kathleen and Jimmy and Jennifer Coolidge in it and that's the only reason to watch it.
ERIC: Oh yeah.
AMANDA: And it's a good reason.
JULIA: Damn.
ERIC: Let's go with Mother's Day.
JULIA: No. What?
AMANDA: No!
JULIA: No!
ERIC: Oh but yes, you do need to bring your holidate to your luncheon with your mother for Mother's Day. Of course you would.
AMANDA: Oh my!
JULIA: Shouldn't your date be with his mother?
ERIC: Ha. She's in Australia.
JULIA: Oh, okay, fine.
AMANDA: Oh, my.
ERIC: Here's a tricky one. Memorial Day.
AMANDA: No, Surely not, Eric. Surely not, unless there's a parade or ceremony at the mall.
JULIA: Gotta be like labor day instead of memorial day.
ERIC: You are correct. No, for Memorial Day.
JULIA: Oh, ok good.
AMANDA: Oh, thank god. Thank god.
ERIC: Here's another tricky one. Father's Day.
JULIA: I feel like the mother is asking questions, that's why you bring it. Your dad doesn't care if you bring a date to Father's Day.
AMANDA: Correct.
ERIC: Okay, you are correct. Father's --
JULIA: Okay.
ERIC: -- Day is not featured.
AMANDA: Phew.
ERIC: Now. Let's go with Independence Day.
JULIA: Fourth of July? Sure.
AMANDA: Yeah. I mean, you got to show the passage of time, right? So, this-- this holiday has to be a yes.
JULIA: Yes.
ERIC: Yes. In this scene, the love interest does blow off his finger with an [34:16].
JULIA: Oh, fuck yeah, dawg.
ERIC: And the character does say "Fuck" a lot.
JULIA: This is much grittier than I expected.
ERIC: I want to say to everybody, do not watch this movie. You will not like it. I watched Red Notice two weeks before I watched this movie, and this was worse.
JULIA: Wow.
AMANDA: Yeah. Wow. That's a lot.
ERIC: How about Labor Day?
JULIA: Yes. If we skipped Memorial Day, I'll say Labor Day, yes.
AMANDA: I'm gonna say Labor Day, no, because I think 4th of July fills that, like, summer holiday slot.
JULIA: That's fair. That's fair.
ERIC: Now, I'm going to give you-- I'm going to give you a twist on this one. This one's tricky, because it's also a wedding. Someone's having a wedding on Labor Day.
AMANDA: Oh, sure.
ERIC: So, now do you need a holidate?
JULIA: That's tacky.
AMANDA: Certainly yes then.
ERIC: This is the moment where it really becomes tense between our two characters.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: I thought you were gonna tell me that this was another one set at the mall because of the Labor Day sales.
ERIC: Oh no. Unfortunately not. Unfortunately not.
AMANDA: Do they go Black Friday shopping at the mall?
ERIC: They don't go Black Friday shopping at the mall.
AMANDA: Damn it!
ERIC: I did not put Black Friday on there because obviously, Thanksgiving. All right, here we go. Halloween?
JULIA: If you're, like, attending a party, I would say yes.
ERIC: They are attending a Halloween party.
JULIA: Because couple's costumes.
AMANDA: Sure. I was worried perhaps there would be some kind of, like, anti-satanic bias here but I think this is a different flavor of Republican movie.
ERIC: Yes. Yes. Halloween, they do. They do bring someone to it. Now, what about Election Day November 2nd?
JULIA: No.
AMANDA: No.
ERIC: Not a federal holiday but also not necessary to bring a holidate to according to the movie.
JULIA: Should be a federal holiday though.
ERIC: Thanksgiving?
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Certainly.
JULIA: Absolutely.
AMANDA: Certainly.
ERIC: Yes. Thanksgiving, they are in there. And finally, Christmas.
AMANDA: Of course.
ERIC: Of course you need your holidate to Christmas. That's what the movie precipitate itself on.
AMANDA: I mean, this is where they confess their true feelings, right?
JULIA: Yeah.
ERIC: Yes. The showing of feelings once again happens at the mall during Christmas shopping season.
JULIA: Obviously!
ERIC: But they presumably are now a couple. They're actually not bringing a holidate to Christmas because now they're just bringing a regular date.
JULIA: A date. Ah, this movie sounds like it sucks.
ERIC: Yeah, it's something else. It's very strange. I cannot not recommend seeing it enough.
AMANDA: Well, Schneider, I have a great recommendation instead, which is to not watch Single All the Way or perhaps to put it on or to, like, have a couple of drinks with friends and then, like, have it on in the background of a party so you can kind of talk over it and just, like, support Michael Urie's career while not necessarily spending a lot of your life watching this movie because I found it to be a little cringy, a little over the top, but it is gay, and therefore worth talking about. So, here's the deal with Single All the Way, very similar premise with all the details are different. So-- so, here our protagonist; Peter, is an LA based social media strategist. So, he-- he's a millennial. He has a millennial job. And his roommate who he likes a lot, Nick. They're close. They live together for a long time. They're pretty co-dependent, I think, in a way that I don't really want to examine that closely. But Nick is a children's book author, and also is a TaskRabbit. It's like TaskRabbit wrote the movie. It's like this a spawncon for TaskRabbit because Nick is like, "Wow, it's so nice that I get to work anywhere I want and be flexible and have lots of gigs. And like, I help people and that's what a TaskRabbit is."
JULIA: Oh no.
ERIC: This is almost definitely sponsored by TaskRabbit. I'm convinced.
JULIA: I'm going to do a quick Google.
AMANDA: Yeah, please. Let's dig into this. I think it was Emily VanDerWerff, who also tweeted about like, "Hey, this was puzzling." It sure was, it was very strange. And it's glorifying the gig economy in a way that I can't really stand for.
JULIA: I want to read to you when you google Single All the Way TaskRabbit. The first article is "Single All the Way: Worst Moments in the Netflix Holiday Movie." And then, the second one is from CNN and it says, "Single All the Way is a necessary queer fantasy." And I'm like, someone fucked up here.
ERIC: I want to point something out real quickly.
AMANDA: Yes.
ERIC: Me and Amanda both chose Netflix movies. And I think we did that under the premise of one, they're readily available, but also because there was that, like, Christmas Prince movie a few years ago that everyone was like, "It's pretty good."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: The Christmas Prince is one of the best Netflix movies. Excuse me.
AMANDA: Yeah.
ERIC: Exactly! So, I think we were-- I think we were tricked into thinking that like, "Oh, Netflix is become good at making these types of movies." And the case is Netflix --
AMANDA: No.
ERIC: -- made one good movie, possibly, maybe another. And no other holiday movies that they have on their platform are good. So, maybe Julius has something correct in that, like, the Hallmark lifetime ones are the good ones still and Netflix just got lucky once.
JULIA: So, my other choice was also a Netflix one and I'll talk about it after Amanda's finished but I do want to say I think Netflix has created this kind of and this is gonna sound really silly, but Netflix has kind of created this, like, extended universe of Netflix Christmas movies that include --
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: -- The Christmas Prince, The Christmas Switch, and now A Castle for Christmas where they're all, like, actually kind of weirdly about, like, royalty and also Christmas but that's besides the point.
AMANDA: Yes.
ERIC: Eventually all the royalty will go to war in the big finale, that's the end game.
AMANDA: Not if they all intermarry.
ERIC: Oh no.
JULIA: That's literally what the Christmas Switch is about but besides that point.
AMANDA: It is yeah, yeah, yeah.
JULIA: There's also another one in that same franchise, I feel like. About, like, a knight who got transported back.
AMANDA: Oh yes. The time travel one.
JULIA: Yes.
ERIC: What?
JULIA: Love that one.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: That one's great.
AMANDA: Yeah, it's time travel. It is good.
JULIA: But I think these are all specifically in this kind of oeuvre of Netflix, original Christmas films. And I think the two that you guys chose are, like, outside of that. And so, therefore, like, I don't want to say aren't as good but aren't embodying what the, I guess, Netflix algorithm has decided is what a good Christmas movie is. And so, I think that might have something to do with it.
ERIC: So, what you're saying is we watch the Amazing Spider Man II while Avengers Age of Ultron was happening. We watch, like, the other thing that's similar, but off by other people are making it.
JULIA: Yeah, I think so?
AMANDA: And Julia, I think that you point out that a lens of fantasy of some way is really useful here. Whether it's, like, thinking that Vanessa Hudgens could pass as Vanessa Hudgens' sister who nobody else thinks looks very similar, right? Or like, they could swap and suddenly one of them is royalty or the fact of royalty in the first place, which for, like, you know, 99.9 repeating percent of the world is a fantasy. Like, anything that would-- we would have access to, or it's something as buckwild as time travel, and that night movie is pretty good. It's pretty good.
JULIA: It's pretty good.
AMANDA: All of that stuff helps us suspend our disbelief, whereas RomComs and romances that are just full contemporary and just like, "Hey, this is normal life," you know, it makes it more difficult to watch something like a fake dating scenario where, you know, my two characters here; Peter brings his roommate Nick back home for the holidays because he is like, "God, I can't be single again because his boyfriend who he thought was perfect when his best friend TaskRabbit is setting up someone's Christmas lights, looks down and sees that it's the boyfriend who's actually married and lying to everybody involved."
JULIA: It's another bad boyfriend, Amanda. You found it!
AMANDA: It's another bad boyfriend. It's more difficult to sort of see the shenanigans happening where there is, like, obvious sexual tension and there is, like, a really useful shirtless shaving cream photoshoot that, like, displays for the first time like, "Oh, wow. My feelings are really different to what I thought they were. Maybe it's actually romance here." And then at the end, obviously, they move to New England and open up a small business together, because that will spell success for their relationship long term. But a lot of this is about perspective, and that is the thing I love most. One of my favorite romance authors is Sarah McLean, who has a really wonderful quote that she said once in, like, an Insta Story, I think, about writing romance, which is that, like, the biggest kind of tension and thing you have to keep in mind when writing romance, in her case, novels, but I think that's true for movies as well, is that there must at every moment be a reason why the characters can't be together until they are, and then that is the resolution, right?
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: And so, all of these circumstances, like, the obvious lies, right? Like, deception, and the tense frustrating moments where I just want to yell at the screen or the book, like, "Just talk. Just stop lying. Just ask a question. Like, look behind you, you know? or like, Don't say that! She's right behind you." Like, all of these moments, where it's, like, so obvious that if somebody just, like, said something, did something, saw something, realized something, the whole thing could be over. Like, that is the beautiful tension and that is the dance where you are invested, and you're a little frustrated, but not quite enough that you turn it off.
ERIC: I think that is really, really accurate because my movie has none of that. And that's probably why-- because the whole-- the whole premise is they are together.
AMANDA: Right.
ERIC: They are going on these fake dates. So, the reason they aren't in love with each other yet is just because they are both kind of insufferable.
AMANDA: Yeah.
ERIC: And they just don't want to be with each other, but they are with each other under this premise of, like, "We don't want all the questions." So, like, that makes a lot of sense because, like, there is no tension because we know the basic tropes. We know that there's gonna be a falling out around 60 minutes, and by the 90th minute they will be together. We know all of that stuff, and this movie lacks any of that tension because it's just kind of waiting, because we're seeing them together in all of these series of dates, but just not actually interested in each other. So, I think that's, like, extremely accurate and good, good analysis on these types of things because it just doesn't exist in my film.
JULIA: Yeah. And I think that's actually a reason that some people don't like RomComs is that the tension is, "Oh, please just say something to this person and everything will be solved."
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And because the solution is so easy, it kind of, like, frustrates people. I remember when I was first kind of getting into these Hallmark Christmas movies I'm just like, "Why don't they communicate? Just talk! Oh my God!" They gave me, like, secondhand embarrassment or secondhand frustration being like, "Just talk to each other," but now I fucking love the pining. I love the pining. I'm here for it.
AMANDA: I love it too. And I think, Eric, that the the fake dating trope and I feel this way about Single All the Way as well, it works really, really well in novels when you can kind of explore someone's interiority, and when the journey of a romance novel is most usually changing your mind about somebody or most often about yourself. It's like, "Hey, this is what I expect. This is my narrative of myself. This what I think I deserve or what I think happens to me in my life or what I think is going on." The challenge is like, you know, rethinking assumptions about yourself, your life, the other person. And that's why romance novels are ultimately not about, like love and relationships, but about your relationship with yourself and your expectations. And like, as corny as all that shit sounds, it is true. And I think that's why, you know, it is really kind of, like, escapist and soothing and comforting because by definition there is going to be conflict and for somebody like me who loves not-conflict and who's, you know, favorite video games are farming and nothing bad happens. That's why I think it's still really useful because at the end of the day, like, you-- you get to go through something and watch a character go through something that all of us go through. It's, like, thinking about our narrative of ourselves, especially in the pressure cooker of the holidays, especially around high stakes life events, right? Like a sister's wedding, a big holiday, a move, like, saving a small business, going to a small town, like, uniting against, you know, a real estate developer or whatever. These situations kind of force you to rethink assumptions that otherwise are really comfortable to keep thinking forever.
ERIC: I'm really glad the holiday movies are keeping the 80s trope alive of the villain being a real estate developer. I think --
AMANDA: Yes.
ERIC: -- we really lost, and I mean, now more than ever, we need evil real estate developers in our movies.
AMANDA: #NowMoreThanEver.
ERIC: It was such a thing in the 80s. That those-- that those were like that. I think that's the villain of, like, one of the Muppets movies. There's a real estate developer.
AMANDA: Yeah.
ERIC: So, like, it's nice that, like, those movies are still like, "He's gonna tear down the old town square and put up a skyscraper." I love that. I love that that still exists somewhere in our film lexicon.
JULIA: And you know what movie has that, Eric?
ERIC: Yes.
JULIA: Has the kind of like, --
AMANDA: Yes!
JULIA: -- not exactly a real estate developer but, like, "They're gonna seize it! The banks are gonna seize it." That would be A Castle for Christmas.
ERIC: Anyone who looks like they would be in American Psycho is a good villain for your movie.
JULIA: Unfortunately, for A Castle for Christmas, we never see the representative of what the bank is. It's just a looming --
AMANDA: Damn it!
JULIA: -- figure of, like, the bank, but...
ERIC: Much like life.
JULIA: Truly. Much like life. A Castle for Christmas, I actually very much enjoyed. It has one flaw in that I feel as though and this is, like, a criticism of a lot of the either Hallmark or just, like, general Christmas movies that I watch are, is that the plot very easily could have been set at not Christmas and still worked. I feel like you have to have Christmas, like, be something in there in order to make the movie like a true Christmas RomCom.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: But in this case, it's just, like, they could have picked any date but for some reason they picked Christmas. So, the plot here, and I won't get as deep as I got into Christmas Under Wraps, but A Castle for Christmas is about a bestselling author who after a scandal after she killed, like, an extremely popular character in her series of books decides to go to Scotland because that's where her family is from. And she falls in love with a castle and decides she wants to buy it but unfortunately, she has to deal with the grumpy Duke who owns it, who is going to try to drive her away.
ERIC: Of course.
JULIA: In order to raise enough money to have her break the contract that they went into and, you know, be able to keep the castle for another year because he's worried about them foreclosing on him.
ERIC: That is elaborate.
JULIA: Yeah. One of the things that I super liked about this movie that I feel like I haven't seen in a lot of other Christmas Hallmark movies or, like, RomComs in general is that the main characters are older. The main character is Sophie and she's played by Brooke Shields, who I think is, like, in her 50s or getting close to her 60s now. The grumpy Duke Miles is played by Cary Elwes, who you might know from, like, Princess Bride and Robin Hood, Men in Tights and stuff like thats so...
ERIC: He's the mayor in Season 3 of Stranger Things.
JULIA: I haven't watched that season but still handsome. Still looking good.
ERIC: He looks great.
JULIA: It also hits one of my favorite tropes of all time, which is extremely grumpy man softens up because of woman.
ERIC: Of course. Of course.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
JULIA: Like, you know, when she's, like, dancing around and stuff like that and he's trying not to smile. You're like, "Oh, just smile, you grumpy old man."
ERIC: The feminine urge to believe you can change him.
JULIA: Yes, yes. Well, she does, so she succeeds. Buckwild part of this movie that has nothing to do with the plot; weird, like, Drew Barrymore cameo in this.
ERIC: Oh.
AMANDA: What's Drew doing up in the mix?
JULIA: Brooke Shields' character is an author and so she is invited on Drew Barrymore's talk show to talk about how she killed off this really famous character.
AMANDA: Drew Barrymore's real talk show?
JULIA: Does Drew Barrymore have a real talk show?
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
ERIC: Oh, yeah. She has a famously very unhinged talk show.
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: Well, then yes. She is invited --
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: -- onto that.
ERIC: My film has a faux Ryan Gosling cameo in which a man who is clearly supposed to be Ryan Gosling is blurry in the background picking up a carton of milk while they're talking about Ryan Gosling.
AMANDA: Wow.
ERIC: There is no way it is actually Ryan Gosling, but it does look a lot like Ryan Gosling if he's just a little out of focus, which he is.
AMANDA: That's incredible. That's like how in– in Next Stop, Multitude's audio sitcom, we had Justin McElroy play the role of David Borealis, and that's just my favorite fact about Next Stop.
JULIA: That's true.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: It's true and I love it. I really liked A Castle for Christmas. It was very enjoyable and also it's nice to have people who aren't in their 20s and 30s falling in love.
AMANDA: It definitely is and there have been so many strides, like, again it's-- it's a real kind of starting from behind, like, not nearly enough and yet we're getting more examples of better representation in holiday RomComs, different holidays, people of different genders, sexualities, abilities, you know, racial backgrounds, falling in love and being the main character. Listen, I love that this is a thing. They are often bad, sometimes good, but it's pleasurable and comforting for a lot of people, and I think, particularly in a time of year where, like, all of us to different extents, even if it's not a particular holiday, but kind of reflecting on the end of the year, or just like, "Hey, it's dark outside. I'm sad about that, and I'm having thoughts about, like, my life and what I'm doing." It's useful and I don't know, escapist to think about making a change or about saying, "Hey, everybody's expectations for what I need to do are crushing and people do extreme things." And maybe that helps you, you know, stand up a little bit or feel a little differently about what you feel in your own life.
JULIA: Yeah, absolutely.
ERIC: Yeah.
JULIA: This is a season where I feel like a lot of people don't feel good going into the holiday season. And I think these movies are a little bit of escapism where we can feel good if only for an hour and a half. A tight 90.
ERIC: Yeah.
AMANDA: Exactly. And if you find yourself in a circumstance where you're like, "Okay, excellent. This is a great time to concoct an elaborate plan and kick off a romance novel or a RomCom movie. Instead perhaps communicate, ask a question, say a thing. That's a good signal to pay attention to."
JULIA: That's fair, that's fair. I know that you guys didn't enjoy your movies. Are there any other Christmas RomComs or holiday RomComs that you do enjoy that you want to recommend for the listeners?
ERIC: Is The Santa Claus a holiday-- Is– I mean, it's a holiday movie is it? I mean, do they-- they're never really not in love during that but-- but that-- that's that's a classic I would say.
JULIA: Well, I would say the second Santa Claus where he has to find Mrs. Claus is a holiday RomCom. Sure.
ERIC: Yeah.
AMANDA: It's not a RomCom but we always watch Full-Court Miracle the 2003 Disney Channel Original Movie around this time of year because it is kinda the best Hanukkah movie out there, so that's the one I'm going to recommend.
JULIA: Awesome. And I will recommend a new one on Netflix as well that I texted Amanda about as soon as I started watching it, which is Love Hard and it's extremely enjoyable and very, very fun.
AMANDA: But let us know please tag us in your social and your Insta story and your tweets if and when you watch either something gay or something fun this holiday season. We'd love to see it.
JULIA: Heck yeah, and remember as you're watching people fall in love and not communicating, stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
ERIC: Stay merry.
AMANDA: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @spiritspodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a forum to send us in your urban legends, and your advice from folklore questions at spiritspodcast.com.
AMANDA: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast for all kinds of behind-the-scenes goodies. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more like recipe cards with alcoholic and non-alcoholic for every single episode, director's commentaries, real physical gifts, and more.
JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective, and production studio. If you like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions.
AMANDA: Above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please text one friend about us. That's the very best way to help keep us growing.
JULIA: Thanks for listening to Spirits. We'll see you next week.
AMANDA: Bye.
Transcribed by: John Matthew M. Sarong