Episode 247: The Green Knight (Myth Movie Night)
/It’s movie night and we’ve watched the stunning film, The Green Knight. We talk classic fairy tale tropes, Arthurian canon, Latin funeral hymns, letting Dev Patel sleep, and what exactly the problems with chivalry are.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of violence, murder, beheading/decapitation, violence against women, animal violence, bunk psychology, body horror, unwanted sexual advances, infedelity, and blood.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends The Murderbot Diaries by Martha Wells.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
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Transcript
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I’m Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia.
AMANDA: And this is Episode 247: The Green Knight for Myth Movie Night. Julia, I don't want to, like, call my shot too early, but this is one of the best Myth Movie Nights I think we've ever done.
JULIA: Thank you. I'm flattered. I will thank the listeners who submitted this as a suggestion and move forward from that.
AMANDA: And as always, we are strict with our spoiler awareness so we have a two-minute recap. It's filled with spoilers but we tell you when it's happening, then you can skip forward if you want. So, this is a movie worth seeing in my humble opinion. So, either see it in most of the episode whilst in the episode and then see it. I think both ways you're going to get a fun viewing experience.
JULIA: Yeah. The only spoilers that we give in the episode as a whole are the slight differences between the actual source material and the movie itself. And we try not to give as much spoilers to that, but if you are listening to this episode, you might get spoiled to the basic plot of the movie.
AMANDA: Which I went in completely new. Completely fresh. Fresh as a daisy, not knowing anything that would happen. And let me tell you guys, it's a movie-watching experience I won't soon forget. So, it was an absolute wild ride. And you know who I would love to have along with me Julia if I were ever to do that again?
JULIA: It's our new patrons, right?
AMANDA: Our new patrons! Sonia, Mary, Ashe, and Katie, thank you so much for your support. We also want to thank our supporting-producer level patrons: Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Bryan, Debra, Hannah,
Jack Marie, Jane, Jessica Stewart, Justin, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Sarah, and Scott.
JULIA: Wonderful humans. I would play any Christmas game with you, but not the one from this movie.
AMANDA: Yeah, this is not a good game. I would definitely advise that our legend-level patrons: Audra, Clara, Drew, Jaybaybay, Ki, Lada, Lexus, Morgan, Morgan H., Mother of Vikings, Sarah, & Bea Me Up Scotty. Don't play a Christmas game with knights who might crash your Christmas parties.
JULIA: Yeah, especially not when there are sharp weapons involved.
AMANDA: So true. But Julia, while I'm looking out and making sure I don't agree to Christmas games, the rules of which I'm not totally clear on or might not have listened to. What should I be reading, watching, or listening to?
JULIA: Oh, Amanda. I started a series and then just plowed through the first five books of it.
AMANDA: I love when that happens.
JULIA: I'm here to tell you, it's easy to because their first couple are all novellas. So, they're nice. They're short, you can really just breeze through them. And this is The Murderbot Diaries by Martha Wells.
AMANDA: Yay.
JULIA: It's so good. It's just a little awkward robot-android friend trying to save silly humans from getting themselves killed. And it's excellent. Oh, it's so good.
AMANDA: That's fantastic. I, I feel like I'm drawing you slowly into kind of romance novel orbit because this is, like, a romance adjacent kind of like, crime, romance, you know, genre adjacent book that is like a cult favorite among lots of romance readers.
JULIA: I am a little surprised because it definitely isn't, like, romance-centric. But it is about, like, relationships between people and that's great.
AMANDA: Absolutely. And like starting a series that you realize is so great. And you're like, "Holy shit. There are 40 of these books. I'm so excited". We have a weekly debate podcast called Head Heart Gut where all the members of Multitude debate. Low-stakes topic and high stakes ways. Such as, what is the best fictional world for you to live in, which we just finished debating last month. And hey, guys, there's like, two-plus years worth of this weekly podcast for you to fall into.
JULIA: Yes. And the way of getting to listen to Head Heart Gut is by joining the Multicrew. Head Heart Gut is available for the members of the Multicrew. It's our membership program that helps support all of Multitude to, like, try new things, launch new shows, and keep the independent podcast engine going. So, you can join for as little as $5 a month at multicrew.club. That's the real address. It's very cool. Good job, Amanda for picking it out.
AMANDA: Thanks!
JULIA: And get access to Head Heart Gut. And trust me, it's a lot of content, and you're going to very much enjoy these friendly, aggressive debates.
AMANDA: It really is a distillation of all that Multitude is here to do. So, we hope you enjoy it and the other benefits to joining the Multicrew. Like, our friends on the Instagram, like insider newsletters, like pins, and even being on our founder's wall. So, lots to love at multicrew.club. And without further ado, everybody please enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 247: The Green Knight.
AMANDA: What the fuck did I just watch? What the fuck was that?
JULIA: Well, it was a beautiful film, is what we just watched. This week, we're covering a movie from myth movie night that I was planning on seeing, like, in the theaters because it's one of those films where I feel like it deserves, like, a full theater experience. Obviously, like, life and the pandemic kind of got in the way. And then, many of our conspirators messaged me saying that we had to cover it. And while I'm not an Arthurian expert, and we haven't covered Arthurian legend in a while, it seemed like the right time to visit this with a recent film, which is The Green Knight Written and directed by David Lowery starring Dev Patel and Alicia Vikander. So, Amanda, I do think it is your turn to attempt to describe this film in two minutes for us.
AMANDA: I sure will, and conspirators if you haven't seen the film, highly suggest it. I think it's definitely worthwhile but if you'd like to avoid explicit spoil-ees, go ahead and skip forward two minutes. Julia, do you have the timer? You ready?
JULIA: I got the stopwatch ready, whenever you're ready.
AMANDA: Okay, Here's the deal. So Dev Patel is a great boy and someone should just, just let him be. Just let Dev sleep. If I was making a website that's like, you know, isitrainingtoday.com which was very popular in, like, the, the early 2000s. Mine would be candevpateljustsleepplease.com. And the answer is still no throughout this entire movie. So, Dev is the, the nephew of King. He is very nice and handsome. Wakes up in a brothel and his partner is like Christ has Risen and it's very funny, basically. So, he goes to work hanging out with the King at the round table. And the King is like, "Oh, you know, Dev, I'm sorry. We didn't bond. I'm like not being a proper boss to you. You know, can you tell me a story about yourself?" And he's like, "I, I don't have any My Lord". And then the queen is like, "Yet", and she is mad creepy throughout this entire movie. So, he is like Word, and then immediately some Krampus ass tree spirit rides in a horse into the middle, and is like, "Oh, here is a creepy letter that, Oh, by the way, your mom's a witch. And she wrote it and like, offered it up in a circle of three Macbeth wishes, and we're going to fight and whatever you do to me, the only thing you can do whatever you want, only the rule is that you should meet me at my house in the chapel on the forest, a year from now, next Christmas". It's a Christmas movie, by the way. This is my favorite Christmas movie and now Die Hard. And you get there and then I get to do the same thing to you. So, Dev freaks out and then beheads him, and it's very funny. And then, a whole bunch of fucking trials happen Julia over the course of his journey to the forest and the chapel the next time. When he gets there, basically, life flashes before his eyes. Only we think it's real, where he, like, runs away, has kids, dies it's like an enchantment. Like, a creepy throuple looking for their unicorn in a, in a castle. And by which I mean, like, a third to their marriage, by the way. And then, at the end of the day, he instead is brave, takes off his enchantment, and gets petted.
JULIA: Okay, yep. That's, I, I really like the, the editorializing that you did for this one. It's very good.
AMANDA: Well, Julia, lots happens. It's a beautiful movie. I enjoyed many parts of it. The performances are very nice. It's a very, like, a modern take on, on myth-making and storytelling and, and I get it. But also, if you look away for even a moment, you know, it's one of the movies where you're just like, "What the actual fuck is happening?". So, I'm very curious to learn from you about any and all mythological origins because I want to know what is this being a arthouse cinema with kissing and what is Arthurian legend. But to be clear, enjoyed myself thoroughly. This would be, like, a very good movie-going experience, where like, you go with your buddies, you talk about it, you figure out what's happening. Enjoy yourselves, not since like paranormal. What's that movie called?
JULIA: Paranormal activity?
AMANDA: I think has a movie left me wanting to talk about it so much during the movie, but also what the fuck? So that's, that's my review.
JULIA: Okay, so before we kind of get into the background and stuff like that, I do have some, like, notes about the film specifically. Just from my viewing experience that we can talk about before I get into the, like origins of the lore here. So, the kind of like beginning shots in the beginning, like, monologue and verse is very evocative of the fact that the original story is a poem which-
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: -I'll talk a little bit more later.
AMANDA: The use of music is outstanding.
JULIA: Oh, yeah.
AMANDA: The use of like rhymed verses, they have surtitles. Like those, like little title cards that come up very like French cinema. I'm not a cinema person, but I'm like, "Oh, this is French, right?". It was beautiful. Like, the filmmaking here, so lovely. And the fact that it's kind of broken up into a little act can come across as pretentious sometimes, but here it really, really worked because it was like, "Oh, yes". Like, we've reconvened at the fire the next night and this is the chapter of this oral story that we are on.
JULIA: Yes, for the record. The movie pronounces the main character's name as Garwin. I've always said Gwaine and I'm going to probably say Gwaine for this episode, just because that's what I know of.
AMANDA: The king said it that way, but other people also, like, there was varying pronunciation because I also was paying attention and like, damn, when I was doing the recap and say his name, but yeah, the King was like Garwin but other people said Gawaine or Gawin. So.
JULIA: I think it's just a matter of, like, where they are and who is pronouncing it. So.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: We'll see. In the movie, so Gwaine, I'm just gonna say Garwin because now, I just heard Garwin all the time. Notably, Garwin's mother in this film is Morgan le Fay, like, I did a little research is like this is obviously Morgan le Fay, which is typically not the case in Arthurian lore, and I'll talk a little bit more about his actual origins in, like, the Arthurian canon, but his Mother/Morgan le Fay in the film is the one that gives him the protective sash, which instead we will see has a different origin in the original poem. You mentioned the kind of trials and tribulations that he went through. One of them was stumbling across the ghost of this young woman named Winifred, who actually is supposed to be the story of St. Winifred. Her story usually dates back to around the 12th century, though she herself was said to live in the 7th century. And she was said to be the daughter of a Welsh chieftain. And when she decided to become a nun, the man who was like pursuing her, or was interested in her, decapitated her because he was like, "Oh, well, if I can't marry you, no one will", because he's a horrible person. He gets struck down by God later, that's a fun fact. So, her head much like in the movie falls into a nearby spring. However, in the original tale, her head was rejoined to her body by St. Bueno when that happens, she just returns back to life rather than just being like, her soul is, has been able to move on, etc. Also, her major shrine in modernity is a fully active well called the Holy Well which is found in Flintshire, Wales, fun fact. Also, at one point he like befriends a fox, which is so like quintessential.
AMANDA: Animal companion!
JULIA: Such, it's so like quintessential fairytale trope. Also, I love that fox so much. He is my son.
AMANDA: I know. I was extremely worried for the fox the entire time. And guys, if you are like me, very worried at animals being imperiled throughout films, the animals you come to love in this film are fine.
JULIA: Yes, that's true. There's one part with Lady Giant and I have no idea what's going on.
AMANDA: Yeah, no fucking clue.
JULIA: Couldn't find any mythological origins that I could tie to the story of Garwin. But here we are.
AMANDA: You know, I mean, England definitely has giant lore and maybe that was what they were pulling from.
JULIA: Yeah. The movie does not kind of have a definitive ending, like the story does, which is, is quite clear about what happens to Garwin after facing the Green Knight. And again, we'll talk about that later. And then, this final little thing, which I, I noticed only when the credits were rolling was the movie opens with this kind of farmhouse scene, and there's like a building burning in the distance. And then, before we pan into Garwin, inside the brothel, there's this couple where it's a man and a woman who seemed to be like fleeing from something, and then the man draws his sword as other people approach. And they're credited as Helen and Paris, which is particularly interesting, because like the opening of the poem itself, like the actual like, Sir Garwin, and the Green Knight ties Garwin's story to these heroes of bjorn. Including, like the rise and fall of Rome and also Troy.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Which I that that was like, that blew me away when the credits rolled. I was, "Helen at Paris, what?"
AMANDA: Damn. Good catch.
JULIA: So, it's very excited about that.
AMANDA: See, Julia, the thing that I was excited to bring to the table in terms of my research here, at some point, there's like a lot of like, Latin and like myth, you know, Medieval England and like, old English chanting and, and English language. Like, I'm sure modern artists were, you know, singing old poems. Almost like covering but singing old poems, which was really exciting. At one point, they did start singing/chanting something that my brain said, "I know this song. That's Evita. No, Amanda, it's a Latin funeral mass". And they just happened to also say that in the beginning of the musical Evita.
JULIA: Sante Evita.
AMANDA: Yeah, exactly.
JULIA: That's very, very good. Thank you for that. Thank you for that gift.
AMANDA: You're quite welcome. Also, at some point during a scene of, of two men getting to know each other better. And they have an interesting character arc, I would say between them during the film. One asks the other, "Have you ever seen a hot kill horse?". And I'm like, "Is this masculinity? Is this, is this men?" and it was very funny.
JULIA: Very, very good. Yeah, I, I really enjoyed this film. I thought it was great. Like, honestly, I love these kind of really weird arthouse-y. Like, I wouldn't even call this horror because it wasn't horror, but it also felt like all of these steps of horror, you know what I mean?
AMANDA: In the way that, like, most Guillermo del Toro movies are like, somewhere on the scale of horror to fantasy. And if on the scale of like, fantasy is one and horror is 10, where would you say that most Guillermo movies fall?
JULIA: Ooh, that's hard because like you have stuff like shape of water. I don't see as horror, I think that leans more, like, a four or three, but I think Pan's Labyrinth can get really horror. So, I think that's more of, like, a six or a seven. You know what I mean?
AMANDA: I think this kind of shares a similar range.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: Where it is like firmly fantasy, but it definitely has, I think particularly tropes of horror filmmaking, long shots, like things happening in the background, and it's so so fun.
JULIA: Yeah, and I think it's like a beautiful film, regardless of what the genre is, and I'm not sure what the genre is.
AMANDA: Yeah. And really leaning heavily on audio is really, really fun to have so much like music and singing and just good sound design. Like, the music told you how to feel-
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: -to a certain extent. But it was useful because it's mostly, like, Dev reacting to things happening to him. And I think that the music was useful and kind of like helping keep pace and keep mood.
JULIA: Yeah, also just the way that the lighting was used throughout and the way that the color was used throughout was really evocative and like.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Telling who was in control of the scene based on what colors were being used was very, very cool, big fan of that.
AMANDA: It took me a few scenes longer than it should have, probably to like, let go like, that wasn't what Dev was seeing. It was like, the filmmaking. And so I was like, "Why is everything suddenly red", but it's not important, it just, don't worry, guys.
JULIA: So, let's talk about some background on the story of Sir Garwin and the Green Knight. It was composed in the late 14th century by an anonymous poet. The poet is mostly referred to as the Gawaine poet as a result. He's also known as the Pearl Poet because he supposedly wrote another poem called The Pearl and another series of poems that I will not get into. It's one of the best-known Arthurian stories even though King Arthur himself is like barely in it. And it is written in alliterative verse and draws not only from like English themes and stories but Welsh, Irish and French as well. What's really interesting is that the poem only exists in one manuscript copy, but it is still been the focus of, like, many Arthurian scholars studies, and as we've talked about, like when we've discussed Arthurian legend before, obviously, these stories were not all written by the same source or like around the same time. The Arthurian canon is sort of these, like, loosely connected stories that are only sometimes are they using the same characters, and the characterization of those characters changes. So, it's truly some like early AU fandom kind of stuff, which I appreciate.
AMANDA: It's fandom, don't worry about it.
JULIA: Some background on the character or figure of Garwin himself before we dive into the story itself. We know from the film that Garwin is a Knight of the Round Table. He served under King Arthur who is also his uncle. Specifically, he is the son of Arthur's Sister Morgause and his father was King Lot. So, not Morgan le Fay like it is in the movie, different characters. So, he's got a couple of younger brothers and half brothers, but most notable of those brothers is Mordred, who is often portrayed as the antagonist in many Arthurian stories, so like the kind of Mordred is the youngest. He's the oldest, he is the like, shiny example and Mordred is kind of this antagonistic character. So, that's really cool. Gawaine is a very, like, honorable and courteous Knight and it's, like markedly compassionate in all of the stories. Many of his stories revolve around him being a "Maidens Knight", and so he rescues a lot of women in his journeys.
AMANDA: Aka a soft lad.
JULIA: Yes, a soft lad, but in this case, he is like, he fathers many children with many different women. But that's not considered, like, ignoble because he'd like, you know, respects all of these women or something like that, you know?
AMANDA: Fascinating.
JULIA: In some stories, they say that his fighting skills either wax or wane with the day and night cycle.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: And that he is near unbeatable when the sun is at its apex.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: Which I think is very neat and very cool. Some stories say that he is also the wielder of Excalibur, which the movie kind of nods to by Arthur giving Gawaine the sword when he's playing the "Christmas game".
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Later stories and authors don't portray him as kindly. Specifically, the post-vulgate cycle, which was done in more of a French style. And the French didn't like Gawaine. They liked people like Lancelot and Galahad instead. In particular, in Le Morte d'Arthur which is The Death of Arthur. It is Gawaine's like sinful actions and his inability to forgive that leads to the fall of Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table as a whole. And it's also kind of what gets Gawaine killed by the end of that tale, kind of, not directly, but indirectly.
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: But obviously, the story of Sir Gawaine and the Green Knight portrays Gawaine in a positive if not human light. So, he like, he makes mistakes. He's fallible, but he still shows his strengths and is chivalrous, but let's, let's dive into just how the story portrays him specifically as I hit the highlights of the original text in the original poem.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: Okay, so let me, let me set the scene. It's New Year's Eve, you are in King Arthur's Court. Everyone's hanging out, getting ready for a feast, exchanging presents. All of that good stuff.
AMANDA: But Julia, who am I going to kiss?
JULIA: I know that's the problem. And this is interesting because it's New Year's Eve instead of Christmas Eve, which I think is interesting. But also, I feel like, during this time period like Christmas like you went the full Yuletide, you know what I mean? Like, Christmas wasn't just the one day, so I feel like, you're still kind of celebrating even into New Year's and New Year's Eve. Everyone's doing the, the Christmas thing. And then King Arthur, they're waiting for the food to come out and he's like, "Hey. So, does anyone have like, a cool adventure or a story they want to tell me about?". Very similar to the film. There's isn't like a flash of lightning or anything like that, but I picture there suddenly like being some and then suddenly there's this strange figure on his horse who rides into the hall on said horse. And he's dressed in all green, his horse is green. He's very large. He's not wearing any armor. He's not tree-like, in the same way that he is in the film, but he is just a giant man.
AMANDA: What is the explanation of, like, his tie to nature and like verdant scenes and stuff like that?
JULIA: If you want to get, like, really into the way that Arthurian scholars look at him, it's more just like, you know, green is a symbolism of the, the passing of the seasons and stuff like that.
AMANDA: Oh, sure. Okay.
JULIA: It's less like, "I, I am made of the trees".
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: So, and you'll see why at the, the end of the story and how it differs from the movie version. He comes in. He's very large. He's very intimidating. He doesn't have any armor on but he does have an axe in one hand and a Holly bow in the other. Much like we saw in the film. Quick aside to kind of explain what's up with the holly. I feel like nowadays, we associate Holly with Christmas time, but obviously, there is a slightly deeper Christian connotation. And that's kind of all about what Arthurian legend is about is all about like Christianity and not being secular, you know? Your chivalry is tied to your belief in God.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So the Bows of Holly are usually referred to as Christ's Thorn and Medieval Christian traditions also tie Holly to just, Jesus in general. Tying back to a Medieval Christmas carol called The Holly in the Ivy, which the Holly is Jesus and the Ivy is the St. Mary. And similarly, from that time, Holly was used in heraldry as a symbol of truth, while druidic tradition often used holly leaves to offer a protection against evil spirits. So, quick side, back to the story.
AMANDA: Yeah, and really ties together the gift that Gawaine has given in the film. The color and the sort of function of it.
JULIA: Precisely. A strange guy riding into your party with an axe, usually not a good sign but the Green Knight as he becomes known, says the he is not there to fight because, "LOL, y'all are too weak for me anyway." Like, he's really like, bluffing a lot in this. He's like, you know, "You guys suck, you're too, too weak. You're too much of a coward to play this game with me". And he says he's got this fun little game for them to play and he presents the challenge. Anyone in the hall may accept his challenge, and they would be invited to strike him with his own axe. However, this could only be done on the condition that the challenger would have to receive the same blow from the Green Knight a year and a day later in return.
AMANDA: It's a real grown man's marshmallow myth test situation.
JULIA: Like, how many mash-, marshmallows you can put in your mouth kind of thing?
AMANDA: No, no, like the. the thing in psychology where it's like, you give them one marshmallow now or three marshmallows like 20 minutes from now. It's like, It's like a psychology test that is used to sort of be, like, see people are bad at delaying gratification because most kids will, like, take the one now. Even though much of that study has been sort of debunked, and it's not like as infallible as they would want you to believe. Anyway, it is a real delayed gratification, kind of impulse control, kind of trap I think for all of these like drunken men on Christmas/New Year's Day.
JULIA: So, cue silence from everyone in the hall, including Arthur which the Green Knight just mocked him for not being brave enough to step up to the challenge as King. Arthur is, you know, pretty much taunted into picking up the axe but when he does so, the Knight Sir Gawaine instead leaps up and takes the challenge for himself. And honestly, I, I think even though Gawaine kind of jumps into this recklessly, which is kind of the way that we see it portrayed in the fil. He does something smart here, like, with the axe in his hand, he's able to strike the Green Knight down in one blow cutting off the other Knights head, which would be a smart move if the Green Knight wasn't, you know, a magical being. If you decapitate someone, they can't come and cut you down a year later.
AMANDA: Unless it's extremely mythical.
JULIA: So, because of course, the Green Knight is this kind of, you know, magical being, he stands up, he picks up his severed head and he reminds Gawaine of their deal and tells him that he must come and seek him out at the Green Chapel in a year and a day. He then leaves and the feast resumes. They take the axe which the Green Knight has left behind and, like, hang it on the wall and King Arthur's like all very pleased with the, like, events that happened. But Gawaine is obviously very shaken by the experience. So, at this point, the story skips ahead and it's All Saints Day now, which is almost a year later and Gawaine sets out to go to the Green Chapel and face the Green Knight. He's got his best armor. He's got his good horse friend who's named Gringolet, which I love. I love anytime someone's got a horse that has a name and loves their owner. I'm just all about.
AMANDA: I love that.
JULIA: So he travels with this good horse friend, Gringolet, through the Northwest of Britain towards North Wales, where the Green Chapel is supposed to be. There's a bunch of, like, battles and bees that are alluded to that Gawaine faces along the way. Though the original text doesn't really, like, describe them. They're just kind of mentioned in passing. The way that the film kind of breaks down those trials is very different than the way that the poem does, which is great. I love that.
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: I really think that the film kind of, leaned very hard into some classic fairy tale tropes at this point, and I really did appreciate that. But at the same time, like, y'all got to get to that castle, though. Like, we, we have a lot of plot still to handle. When we check back in with Gawaine. He is having a rough go of it., He is cold. He is hungry. He is desperate, and he is on his own. So, on Christmas Day, he's pretty much at his wit's end and he prays that he will find a place to hear mass. And when he does pray for that, suddenly, a castle appears in front of him just like shimmering in the distance, like a mirage, you know?
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: So, Gawaine's pretty obviously, just relieved that he has not only found a place where he could probably hear mass, but also a place that will provide respite from the wilderness. So, he approaches the castle and he is greeted by the Lord of the castle. And maybe it's because we covered Sinbad the Sailor recently, but I am personally immediately suspicious of this Lord, you know?
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. No, totally.
JULIA: Are you gonna make him marry someone and then bury him? Like, what's gonna happen here?
AMANDA: This is not hospitality for nothing,
JULIA: But he invites Gawaine in. Introduces him to his wife, and also to an old woman who's, like, sitting in their hall. Who has never named by the way, but it is clear that she's like, well respected and held in high regard by everyone there.
AMANDA: I mean, that's good because in the movie, she's literally a creepy prop.
JULIA: Yes, she is kind of a creepy prop. She has more of a purpose in the poem that I understand why they had to do what they did in the film because they decided to go in a different direction with a certain character, but you'll see what I mean shortly after. So, it is also revealed to Gawaine that he is actually very close to the Green Chapel, and it's only about two miles away and that's just a relief to Gawaine because he's been traveling for, like, over a month and a half at this point.
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: And things are just feeling, feeling rough for him. So, this Lord whose name is Bertilak. Then suggests a challenge to Gawaine. He says, Bertilak will go hunting with his men every single day and when he returns in the evening from the hunt, he will exchange his winnings for anything Gawaine has managed to acquire by staying behind in the castle. So, Gawaine is like, "Yes, cool. Awesome", and then takes up the offered bed chamber and goes to sleep because it's been a long month and a half.
AMANDA: Yeah. And also, if you like, I don't know, find a coin that someone dropped behind the cistern, you know, and you can give it to him. Like, that's a pretty good trade, probably.
JULIA: Plus, you have to imagine that it's his castle, anything that Gawaine finds in the castle, he probably already owns. So, it's a really good deal for Gawaine.
AMANDA: Yeah, Dev as Gawaine says that in the movie, and it's like yeah, word only then, you know, he's, he's given a different kind of gift that I totally foresaw.
JULIA: So, we're going to see exactly what kind of gifts Gawaine gets, but first, let's grab a refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: So, Amanda. I have been trying to bring my embroidery game up to the next level. And one of the big things that I think would be a really cool thing to do with my embroidery, is start embroidering my own clothes. And lucky for me, Skillshare had a class that is literally called Make Wearable Art With Embroidery on Clothes with Daniel Clough. And as a human being, I love learning about things and specifically, being able to access educational videos and stuff like that, that teach me the things that I want to learn. And Skillshare is the perfect place for that. They have short classes where you can move your creative journey forward, just like I did when I took Daniel's class. And you can explore your creativity at skillshare.com/spirits where our listeners get a one-month free trial of premium membership. That's one month for free at skillshare.com/spirits. You know what, it's time to learn, get learning.
AMANDA: And Julia, I know that you and I have similar brains and that both of us kind of often worry about the what-ifs of life, if you, you know, are leaving somewhere and you don't get there in time. If you mess up, all of the constant ways that interpersonal interactions can potentially go wrong. And if there is something that makes you feel safer and more secure in your life, I think it's a really good thing to be able to listen to yourself and do that. So, today we are sponsored by Birdie, a personal safety alarm designed to be easy to carry and simple to use. When you activate it with a quick pull, an alarm emits a loud 130-decibel siren and a flashing strobe light. Unlike pepper spray or other kinds of deterrents, it's no physical danger to you. So, feel free to be confident to use it without that worry. They can also go wherever you do, that comes in multiple colors and has a brass key chain. Just very cute and shiny. And you can attach it to your keys or leave one in your bag. Right now, She's Birdie is offering our listeners 15% off your first purchase when you go to shesbirdie.com/spirits. Go to She's Birdie, that's spelled s h e s b i r d i e.com/spirits for 15% off your first purchase. That's shesbirdie.com/spirits.
JULIA: Now Amanda, I recently got a flyer in the mail that was letting me know that a Szechuan place opened up near my apartment.
AMANDA: That's all you need in life.
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AMANDA: Subject to change terms apply. And now let's get back to the show.
JULIA: So lately, I've been on this Cucumber Gimlet kick, which I really really love. Not only because Jake got a bunch of cucumbers from his co-worker’s garden, but also because it's like green and refreshing and great in those, like, last days of summer heat. It's very, very nice. Plus, I, I secretly love muddling things. Like, more cocktail should have muddled things in them in my opinion.
AMANDA: I'm not so secretly love muddling things. We made Thanksgiving dinner in July for anniversary this year. And with leftover fresh cranberries, what do you do? Muddle that shit. Put in some mezcal, delicious drink. Just muddling.
JULIA: Yeah, so let's head back to the story of the Green Knight with our green cocktails on hand.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: So, the Lord goes out on his hunt the next day and Gawaine is still exhausted. So, he's just having, like kind of, a lazy day in his bed chambers, you know, like you do, after a day of traveling, don't you just kind of want to stay in bed all day?
AMANDA: You very do, and in the film, I love that when, when, when Dev, Gawaine woke up, there's like a beautiful shot from above, like, a 20 foot long set of velvet drapes down on, you know, beautiful Dev Patel on the shape of his life, in order to like, fight while in full armor and then like, lay in the bed shirtless once. #LetDevSleep
JULIA: Truly. Just let him sleep. However, he doesn't get to sleep because the Lord's wife sneaks into Gawaine's chambers while her husband is out and attempts to seduce the young knight. Gawaine is not into that and kind of rebuffs her and either relents to a single kiss as to not offend her, or the lady steals a kiss from him before leaving. Again, kind of depends on the translation that we're talking about here. So, when the Lord returns from his hunt, he gives Gawaine a deer that he has slain, and Gawaine in return kisses him since he did gave a kiss from the lady, and that was part of their deal, but he doesn't, like, tell him like, "Oh yes, this was a kiss your wife gave me. Let me give you that kiss in return". Kind of just keeps it on the DL.
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: So, the next day, Bertilak goes out to hunt a boar and the lady returns to Gawaine's chamber, manages to get two kisses out of him this time before leaving. It's the classic fairy tale. We're going to do this three times, kind of thing.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Gawaine gets the boar's head in return for the two kisses when Bertilak returns, and then we move onto the third day. And on the third day, Gawaine once again tries to rebuff the lady of the house when she returns to his bedchamber, and we up the ante to these three kisses, right? However, the lady of the castle wishes to give him a keepsake but Gawaine knowing that anything he receives, he would have to give to Bertilak refuses because, like, if she gives him a keepsake, obviously, he's going to know this is from his wife. So, she first attempts to give him a gold ring and when he refuses, she tries to offer up her green either girdle, or sash, which she tells him is charmed and will prevent him from coming to any physical harm or in other versions or translation protects those who wear it from death.
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: Little different from the movie in that he gets it from his mother, he loses it and then she's like, "I've made this" and he's like, "I, I owned that until like, a couple of weeks ago. What is happening? And then there's a whole other scene in the movie that I'm not going to describe. So, Gawaine, obviously still probably pretty anxious about having to face off against the Green Knight so soon accepts the sash/girdle. I'm going to say sash. I like sash better. And when the Lord of the castle returns, it gives him the three kisses but doesn't mention the item that he has received from his wife.
AMANDA: Sometimes you gotta not mention the item someone's wife gives you, you know?
JULIA: Yeah, sometimes you just got to do that. Especially when that man is hosting you and probably would not be too pleased. So, the next day is New Year's Day and Gawaine sets out to the Green Chapel to seek the Green Knight in his armor, on his good steed Gringolet, with the sash tied around his waist. The Lord of the castle sends a guide to lead Gawaine in the right direction, and out of the estate. But when they reach the beginning of the forest, the guide is like, "Hey, if you wanted to just give up on this quest right now, no one would blame you. And I wouldn't tell anyone".
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: But Gawaine is like, just the height of chivalry and honor and he's like, "No, I got to meet my fate head on". And he sets out to find the Green Chapel.
AMANDA: Yeah, but you have a token on you. You have, you have a protection on you, come on
JULIA: Well, the, the aid didn't know that. And Gawaine, Gawaine knows what's up.
AMANDA: Yeah, I think he's trying to eat his cake and have it too, which is the way I prefer to say that idiom because other way around doesn't make any sense.
JULIA: So, Gawaine finds this, like, crevice in a rock which he comes to realize is the Green Chapel after he hears within the whirring of a grindstone, as if like someone is sharpening a weapon inside.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: This is very intimidating.
AMANDA: Yeah,
JULIA: So, outside of the chapel, Gawaine calls out to the Green Knight, and the gigantic knight emerges out to greet him. Knowing that he must honor their agreement, he kneels in front of the night and presents his neck for decapitation, like you do. The green knight, he fakes two blows, taunting him and telling him that he wanted to test Gawaine's nerve. Like, on the first swing, Gawaine does like flinch, but on the second, he does not flinch, because he's just like, so ashamed that he feared his own death, which is natural. Gawaine, don't worry about that. Even the bravest of men are afraid of death.
AMANDA: But being a knight is not about nuanced to his but chivalry.
JULIA: Yes, of course, and we'll talk about chivalry a bit later. He angrily tells the Green Knight to take the blow because he's tired of being taunted. And the knight does, but the blow only like, nicks Gawaine's neck drawing just a little bit of blood. And Gawaine like, stands angrily and says that like, "He's honored the end of the deal and that the contract is fulfilled", because obviously like he got cut. Like that's, that's it, that's the end.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: That's the end of the game, right? And so he grabs his armor, he grabs his sword and he goes to leave. But the Green Knight just laughs and then reveals that he is Bertilak. The Lord from the castle that Gawaine had stayed in. Transformed by magic by the old woman from the castle, who is actually Morgan le Fay.
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: So, we're, we're getting all this like, magic stuff at the end here. Big twist.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: Bertilak knew that Gawaine did not truly give all of his winnings on the third day because obviously, he knew that his wife had this, his stash thing. So, he drew blood on his third blow as payment. However, Bertilak allows that like, Gawaine has proven himself to be a true and worthy knight that he has no equal in the land and so he's like, "I'm not gonna decapitate you bro. You can go." you know?
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: Gawaine leaves the green chapel, his quest is now completed. And while he's relieved to still be alive, he also finds that he's still feeling like, extremely guilty about his failure to like, tell the whole truth which he sees as sinful because lying is a sin.
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: And so, upon returning home to Camelot, Gawaine wears that green sash around his arm to remind himself of his failure. And as like kind of an extremely cute ending, but we'll talk about kind of the nuance of it in a little bit. The rest of the knights of the roundtable, after hearing about Gawaine's quest, all wear sashes on their arms as a show of support for their fellow knight.
AMANDA: Cute.
JULIA: Very cute. And that's the end of the story.
AMANDA: A lot of beats match up on the film. I'm, I'm glad to know about this context.
JULIA: Mmh-hmm.
AMANDA: I'm glad I actually know about it after watching because I think I would have been kind of, looking for stuff that wasn't there or like, wondering how they're going to deal with it, instead of being genuinely shocked by some of the deterrent at the storytime.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. Obviously, we don't have the kind of flash-forward of what if Gawaine hadn't, you know, received the final blow or, you know, had run away, which I, I did like that as a, as a storytelling mechanism.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: But in this story, it is very obvious, like what happens to Gawaine because mostly, because we know through the Arthurian canon, how he actually is supposed to die, as opposed to dying here. Though I did really like, just like the symbolism of the Green Knight with his finger being like. "Off with your head". Like, in my opinion, he wasn't actually going to decapitate him. That's just me,
AMANDA: There was some very good and cute, like, beheadings and headlessness in mythology references throughout this film that I really enjoyed.
JULIA: Yeah. So, let's very quickly talk about some of the themes of the Green Knight because they do end up giving us a lot of insight as to some of the reasons that like Gawaine does what he does. And some of the symbolism that is present in the story. And the first thing I want to talk about, obviously, is chivalry. Now, I am not a Arthurian scholar, but I do know that chivalry and the sort of code of the knight is very important to the Arthurian canon. And so much of the actions of everyone in the story is kind of shaped by the concept of chivalry and these codes of behavior that are expected of Gawaine. And for those who don't know a lot about chivalry, there are five key virtues expected of each knight. Which we kind of see reflected in that sort of five-pointed star in the film. And when the queen is giving him his kind of test and making him into a knight. She keeps talking about the five things. So, the five virtues expected of each knight is friendship, generosity, chastity, courtesy, and piety. And we see a lot of those dishonored in the story.
AMANDA: Sure do.
JULIA: And it's not just Gawaine's chivalry that is tested in the story and the journey he's on, but chivalry itself is kind of questioned in this story. So, while Arthur's Court is based on this code of chivalry, the story of Gawaine and the Green Knight kind of questions whether the court is truly chivalrous or just interested in the appearance of being chivalrous, which I really-
AMANDA: Oh, yeah.
JULIA: -love.
AMANDA: That's a very modern question.
JULIA: Yeah. So, Gawaine at the end of the story shows the symbol of his failed chivalry on his arm, and when the rest of the knights joined him, they only joined him symbolically. So like, when the Green Knight first challenges the court, he mocks Arthur and the rest of the knights for being afraid of the challenge that Arthur is so afraid of words and appearances rather than the actual threat of danger, you know?
AMANDA: Totally. And I'm sure there are like nuances to this political critique that I in the modern age don't understand. But like damn.
JULIA: Yeah, and then after Gawaine faces the night at the court and he leaves, the feast resumes despite Gawaine's anxieties, because everyone else at court doesn't want to face their true feelings. So, they instead choose to appear chivalrous and courteous.
AMANDA: Masculinity.
JULIA: Masculinity. And then, let's talk about games because everyone in this goddamn poem and goddamn movie are playing games, right?
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm. Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: Like, the Green Knight shows up with the game of sorts after Arthur asks for a tale. Later, the Lord of the castle proposes his challenge, which even then, is there's this like, wordplay and game that is happening as Gawaine tries to like, fight off the advances of the Lady of the castle as she attempts to seduce him, which I think is, is very cool. And if you have some time to read the original text, which there are some very well-translated versions, you can see the kind of wordplay that goes back and forth. Like almost they're like, proposing riddles and stuff to each other, which I think is a lot of fun. And all in all, games and tests in this kind of story form as these tests of social behavior or, or shown as a way of like, revealing someone's inner character and worth. And it's only after Gawaine has played all of these games that the Green Knight tells him that he's worthy and even more so the worthiest knight in the land with no equal, which I think is just like, "Oh, yeah, man. You've, you've done all these trials, but it's never like, trials in the way that you think a knight should truly be going through trials. But rather, there are these like, the almost childish games in the sense. Like, the stakes are extremely high, but they are almost childish in a way.
AMANDA: Yeah. I find myself thinking a lot about fairies and fairy myths and sort of riddles, you know? And wordplay and contracts during this film, and how so much of mythology is kind of like, you know, the temptation to take the easy route, or taking a prize or saying yes to something that you don't fully understand. What was interesting here is like, you do fully understand it. The rules are clearly laid out at the beginning, and in the myth, at least, you know, Gawaine tries to circumvent it. He tries to like, hit the reset button, he tries to, to again, like, eat the cake and, and have it as well.
JULIA: It's interesting that you bring it up that, you know, you think of the Fay because this is a very English, Welsh, Irish, and a little bit French poem. So, it does make sense that we are seeing those kind of, tropes that we have seen in other kind of British Isles and also continental Europe stories as well. So, it does like, you know, play tricks. See what happens kind of thing.
AMANDA: I guess that's the difference between making a bet with a fairy though and like being a knight is, you know, honor and chivalry is partly about kind of doing the right thing when no one is watching. And like, doing the thing that is morally right, and not just kind of adhering to the letter of the argument, which, you know, we all love an outsmarting a fairy trope in media and that is what happens when, you know, you're able to kind of use the letter of what you agreed to, to get what you actually want. Versus it seems like, no one is outlying Gawaine from wearing a protective girdle/sash, but he does and you know that it's wrong. And he knows that it's wrong, and he's trying to do it anyway.
JULIA: It's interesting that you bring up the fact that you have to act chivalrous even when no one is looking because piety is one of the five points of it.
AMANDA: Mmh-hmm.
JULIA: So, God always know.
AMANDA: That's true, Julia.
JULIA: God knows what you're doing. Knights are God-fearing, in the sense that, you know, they have to act a certain way. Not only to uphold this kind of societal expectation of what they are, but also because God knows what's up, you know?
AMANDA: You're right, that was a very secular heathen reading of that situation.
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, and it's interesting, because like, Gawaine starts in the Arthurian canon as, like, a very pious knight. He's like the epitome of pious. And then, in the later, like, less favorable readings of him, he is very much the secular knight. And I think we see a lot of that in the film here because, you know, they start the film, and they're like, "Hey, where were you?" He's like, "I was at Mass". They were like, "You were at Mass?" And they're like, "I mean, yeah, you know". Like, that's the opposite of what you would usually see of that version of Gawaine with Dev Patel. And so, it is interesting to kind of see him, I don't know if we ever see him truly, like, become pious, but we do see him in acts of piety that are not to God but are instead to the path of chivalry that he has decided to go down.
AMANDA: Yeah. Well, that's, that's supposed to be it, right? Like, it adhere to ritual, adhere to prayer, and then salvation will come. Like, listen to your King and that's, well it's like listening to God.
JULIA: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I just think it was a really interesting kind of take on Gawaine in the film, versus the way that we see Gawaine in the poem. Because again, Gawaine in the poem is extremely chivalrous, but also human. And I think we leaned very heavily into the fallible human version of Gawaine in the movie here.
AMANDA: Yeah. I was reading a couple of reviews after watching the film, and Allison Walmart at vulture talked about how, like, Gawaine is kind of like, waiting for something to turn him into a hero. And he still needs to do the work to prove it. Like, the opportunity is in fact dropped on his lap, but he isn't just kind of transformed into a knight. I loved the scene, which I thought again like it was very, kind of modern and spoke, I'm sure to a lot of people, where someone is asking Gawaine, like, you know, "Why are you doing this? Like, what is your goal?" And he's like, "Honor", and it's like, Is, is that a question? Like, why? Like, what, you know? Once you've honored then what? Like, once you do this, then like, who gives you honor? What do you do with it? Like, what does that mean for you?
JULIA: And it's also kind of really interesting because, throughout the film, you see so many people just tell him like, "You're not a knight. A knight would know better. A knight should know better. There's no way that you are a knight", and I, I'm so curious to kind of examine the film from that perspective, where he is just trying so hard to prove himself. Whereas in the story of the poem, he's already a proven knight, you know? He's young, but he has proven himself. He is a Knight of the Round Table and he shares a place there just like everyone else.
AMANDA: Yeah. And a couple times in the movie people are kind of like, "Oh, like are you like, Gawaine from the story? Like, are you Gawaine from the portrait? Like, are you Gawaine from, from that?" And he's like, "No, like, I am just living." And so sort of like, reckoning with this idea of fame and notoriety and sort of like, I imagined that Gawaine is feeling a lot like, "Well, I, I did a thing myself to accept the consequences". Like, is that good? Is that bad? Toward the end, we kind of like, see one version of sort of like, consequences for ill-gotten gains. Like, if you do it and you come out the other side unscathed then maybe you shouldn't have. What happens next? Like, does, does it mean you're going to have a good life? Does it mean that the life you have, even if it's heralded is going to be worthy or feel good? And so they were just, like, a ton of questions and really interesting kind of like rich, you know, food for thought that I can picture myself sort of doing rewatching with a different lens each time. Like, also the role of women in this film. Fascinating.
JULIA: Mmh-hmm.
AMANDA: The double casting in this film, fascinating. So, there's, there's a lot here and much like knives out. I just wanted to watch it again right afterward.
JULIA: Yeah. It's also a very sexy film, but never at any point do I feel like, "Oh, this is the male gaze on women". It's mostly just Dev Patel being sexy.
AMANDA: He does. Everything he does is sexy. Yeah, everything is sexily. Like, you can say Dev Patel rides a horse comma sexily. Yeah, you're right. Like, sex is present and sort of a tool and like, a symptom almost without being either, like, shamed or objectified, which was really interesting.
JULIA: And also an interesting choice for a film about chivalry, where chastity is one of the symbols that they're supposed to uphold.
AMANDA: One thing this film was not, chaste.
JULIA: Not chaste. Well, I really liked it. I loved this film, I loved being able to do a deeper dive into the differences of the original poem and this film, and I'm glad that we were able to kind of talk about the problems with chivalry.
AMANDA: Me too. And above all else guys, let Dev Patel sleep.
JULIA: Let Dev Patel sleep and while he does that, he can stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
AMANDA: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Alison Wakeman.
JULIA: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @spiritspodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website. As well as a form to send us your urban legends at spiritspodcast.com
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JULIA: We are a founding member of Multitude. A collective of independent audio professionals. If you liked Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions
AMANDA: And above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please share us with your friends. That is the very best way to help us keep on growing.
JULIA: Thank you so much for listening. Till next time.
Transcribed by: John Matthew Sarong
Edited by: Krizia Marrie Casil