Episode 147: Myth Movie Night - Scooby Doo on Zombie Island (with Eric Silver)
/A review of Scooby Doo on Zombie Island was too wild to do on our own - that’s why we invited Eric Silver along on this wild tale of a talking dog, voracious hungers, and a completely confusing climax.
This week, Julia recommends Community, all of which is available on Hulu.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about racism, the Civil War, death, cultural appropriation, slavery, and colonization.
Guest
- Eric Silver is the Dungeon Master of Join the Party and co-host of HORSE. Follow him on Twitter @el_silvero.
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About Us
Spirits was created by Julia Schifini, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric Schneider. We are founding members of Multitude, a production collective of indie audio professionals. Our music is "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod (http://incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0.
Transcript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is episode 147, Myth Movie Night: Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island.
Julia: Yeah, the minute you said you had never seen this film before, I was like, "Well, we're changing it now," and here we go.
Amanda: It was extremely entertaining. I now would love to watch every Scooby-Doo straight-to-VHS movie ever made and I hope everybody enjoys.
Julia: Yep, no, it's a lot of fun. I think in the future we're definitely going to have to do Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost. I feel like that's a good sequel to this one.
Amanda: Do you know who would be able to choose if they were a witch or a ghost because they just have that much power?
Julia: Is that our new patrons?
Amanda: Our new patrons, Maya and Alex. Welcome, y'all. You join the ranks of Supporting Producer level patrons, Philip, Eeyore, Megan, Skyla, Samantha, Sammy, Josie, Neil, Jessica, and Phil Fresh, and our Legend Level patrons, Audra, Chris, Mark, Cody, Mr. Folk, Sarah, Sandra, and Jack Marie, who just got a wonderful box of vermouth from Shaker and Spoon, vermouth cocktails, which I thought I knew the peak of how vermouth went, but I did not.
Julia: No, that's fancy. I love a good vermouth cocktail. I feel like there's so much more we could be doing with vermouth besides the classic martini.
Amanda: Speaking of great cocktails, Julia, you served up an absolute classic this week. Tell us about it.
Julia: Yeah, so I served a Sazerac, which I feel like if you don't know the history of a Sazerac, you probably are like, "Oh, kind of a boring drink. Seen it before in tons of bars," and stuff like that. But it was actually invented in New Orleans in the late 1830s and the Sazerac was originally named for the brand of cognac that was used in it, but by the 1870s they swapped out the cognac for rye whiskey and then added absinthe to it as well. Usually just a dash or a wash of absinthe, not a full shot of absinthe.
Amanda: I feel like late 1800s it's like, "Everyone has lead poisoning. Let's just drink absinthe while we can."
Julia: Yeah, figure why not. And probably the most important aspect to the traditional Sazerac is the use of Peychaud's Bitters, which are local to New Orleans, and it really adds this sort of minty, licoricey flavor that you don't typically see in, say, the kind of bitters that you would buy at the store.
Amanda: Very cool. It was absolutely delicious and you served it in a very pretty crystal flute looking glass and it was a wonderful shade. It made me feel like a flapper.
Julia: Yeah, it is much classier than the movie that we watched.
Amanda: Listen, it's all relative man.
Julia: The mid-90s, man, was a weird, weird time.
Amanda: Sure was. Sure was. Well Jules, once we finish watching through all of our Scooby-Doo made-for-TV movies, what should we be watching/reading/listening to this week?
Julia: Okay, so it's the 10-year anniversary of when Community first premiered ...
Amanda: Whoa.
Julia: ... which if you have not seen Dan Harmon's Community, please, please watch it. I think it's maybe one of the most influential to me TV shows that I've watched as a adult, and it says a lot about how you don't have to be perfect and you don't have to root for the people who are shown as a protagonist, but everyone in the world is flawed and can do a little bit better.
Amanda: I love that so much. As of recording, yesterday was the 20th anniversary of The West Wing premiering and I cannot believe that Community started only 10 years after West Wing started. So much happened in that decade. Jesus.
Julia: So much. Oh, geez.
Amanda: Oh boy.
Julia: But yeah, it's a great show. All of it's on Hulu, so you can catch all six seasons.
Amanda: Beautiful. I love that so much. And Community was a big influence on me as well, and I feel like ... I don't know, shaped the kind of art I want to make in a lot of ways, and I hope that we can show those who join us at our Boston show exactly what kind of art we believe in and want to make because I don't know. I'm here to push boundaries in all ways, in respectful and wonderful, artistic boundary pushing ways, not like personal boundary pushing, and I am just so excited about what we have in store for the Boston show. So please, if you are in New England, if you're in New York and want to take a drive, or if you are in Boston or have friends that go to school there, it's a wonderful time of year on October 10th to head on over for our Boston live show. Tickets are available now and you should definitely get them before the day at multitude.productions/live.
Julia: Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. I'm finishing researching the Spirits segment and ooh boy, it's going to be a blast.
Amanda: Oh, y'all don't even know.
Julia: It's going to be amazing. I can't wait.
Amanda: Well, without further ado, enjoy Spirits Podcast episode 147, Myth Movie Night: Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island.
Julia: Last week on Spirits during our Urban Legends episode, Amanda made a statement that I shouldn't have been surprised by and yet I was, and we had to rectify it immediately, and it was that she had never seen Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island.
Amanda: Not once.
Julia: Yeah, no, not ever. So that's what we did this week. We watched Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island.
Amanda: We sure did, and I watched it at home with my partner in life, love, and podcasting, Eric Silver, and you had so many wonderful opinions and interjections that I thought, "Let's just cut the middleman here. Let's just have you on as a Scooby-Doo expert and enthusiast."
Eric: I am a Scooby-Doo expert and enthusiast. I love mysteries, I love taking down petty criminals, I love unmasking things and people and ideas, so I'm here for it.
Julia: Fantastic. And you've seen this film before?
Eric: I definitely have. I remembered all of this. I think I've seen it in bits and pieces, but it's very much in the Scooby-Doo canon, post-cartoon when it was just individual movies. So I'm 100% here for it. I didn't remember some of this stuff, which is ridiculous. You can divide this movie into three distinct parts. The first is exposition, the middle is, "It's a mystery!"
Amanda: High jinks.
Eric: High jinks. Oh, it's a regular Scooby-Doo but it's not. And then the end makes no sense.
Julia: Yep.
Eric: I'm so excited.
Julia: All right, fantastic. So this is the 1998 direct-to-TV film, Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island. To quote the Wikipedia page it, "contains a darker tone than most Scooby-Doo productions and is notable for containing real supernatural creatures rather than people in costumes."
Eric: You know who also said that? The one star Amazon reviews.
Julia: Fuck you, one star Amazon reviews.
Eric: I was looking it up. I'm like, "Why wouldn't anyone like this?" And it's all parents who'd be like, "My three year old hated the real spooks and also too many confusing accents."
Julia: It's true. There's a very many confusing accents in this film.
So Scooby-Doo had been a little bit on the wayside when it came to productions of it. It had been a minute since they had had a very successful Scooby-Doo TV show or really interest in Scooby-Doo, and then 1991 came around and Cartoon Network started running old episodes of Scooby-Doo.
Amanda: Did it really come out before the 90s?
Julia: This came out ... Oh yeah, dude. It's from the 70s.
Eric: It was like the heyday of Hanna-Barbera.
Amanda: I had no idea because it was on TV so frequently when we were kids in the mid to late 90s that I just sort of assumed it was contemporaneous.
Julia: Those were all reruns and I have a funny story about that later. So Cartoon Network starts showing all of these, Scooby-Doo becomes more interesting. They do another direct-to-video film of Scooby-Doo. It's pretty successful, but they decide, "Hey, we're going to really push the envelope and we're going to make Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island."
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So they went back to try and get as much of the original cast as they could. The first snag that they came into was, one, a lot of the people had died since the original production, and then there was Casey Kasem. Casey Kasem was the voice of Shaggy.
Eric: What? No.
Julia: Casey Kasem was the voice of Shaggy.
Amanda: Who is this person?
Eric: Oh. Casey Kasem used to do ... he was the countdown radio guy. He would pick up what the top hits are he'd be like, "I'm Casey Kasem."
Amanda: I see.
Eric: That was his legitimate voice.
Julia: And so it sounds like Shaggy. So they tried to get Casey Kasem back, but he had recently gone vegan and so he demanded that the character would follow suit and cut all meat and dairy from his diet.
Amanda: Oh.
Eric: Fucking forgot about that.
Julia: If you see the film, Shaggy eats a lot of meat and also other things.
Amanda: Yeah, like a three-foot tall meat sandwich.
Julia: Yep, and then a lot of crawfish and stuff like that.
Amanda: Oh yeah.
Julia: And they had already animated the film ...
Amanda: Oh no.
Julia: ... so they couldn't really cut a lot of that.
Amanda: Oh boy.
Eric: Crawdads are a plot point in this movie.
Julia: Yes, they are.
Eric: You can't cut it out.
Amanda: You can't. That would be a substantial rewrite.
Julia: So they tried, Casey would not budge on this whole thing, so they hired voice actor Billy West.
Eric: Yes. I noticed that.
Julia: Yes. Billy West, very, very good actor. Amanda, you might know him from ... He plays a bunch of characters on Futurama, he was Stimpy in Ren and Stimpy.
Amanda: Oh.
Julia: He played both Ren and Stimpy, my apologies.
Amanda: What?
Julia: But Ren only from season three to season five.
Amanda: Goodness gracious. Were they like, "Hey, this guy left. I don't know, let's just pay the same guy the same amount to do double the work"? Sounds like my first couple of jobs.
Julia: You might also know him as the red M&M.
Amanda: Oh.
Eric: Really?
Julia: Yep, that's Billy West.
Eric: Oh man. The casting in this.
Amanda: Listen, I just figured out that queer icon ... not because he's queer but because he's a queer icon ... Mark Hamill is in this movie, which was the only casting thing that I cared about so far.
Julia: There are a lot of very good voice actors in this film.
Amanda: Tell me more.
Julia: The rest of the team are just kind of other people. They got Scott Innes to play Scooby-Doo. Don Messick passed away back in 1997, the year before this came out, so he wasn't able to do it originally. They had just a bunch of random people play Daphne and Velma, and then Frank Welker is the only one that they were able to get to return from the original cast and he played Fred.
Amanda: Oh.
Julia: And so he was really worried because he did the test for Fred in the studio and the producers kept telling him, "Hey, dude, your voice is too low. You're doing your voice too low." And he's like, "No, I'm doing it the normal way I always did."
Amanda: "I am him."
Eric: "I'm the Fred."
Julia: Like, "This is just my speaking voice," and they're like, "No, your voice typically sounds higher in the episodes." And so they went back and watched a bunch of the original episode and realized that he was doing the voice correctly, it's just that when Cartoon Network started airing the episodes, they sped them up so they could fit in more commercials ...
Amanda: What?
Julia: ... so his voice sounded higher.
Amanda: What?
Julia: Yes.
Amanda: I was going to say, well clearly microphones have changed. Maybe they're more sensitive to the lower ... no.
Julia: Nope, it's just, "We needed to get them down to 18 minutes instead of 21," or whatever.
Amanda: Wow. What a classic boardroom man move. Like, "Hey, you know what? We can raise profits by 20% by running them at 1.2 speed."
Eric: That's why I listen to all my podcasts at 1.5 speed.
Julia: There it is.
Amanda: It gives the podcasts-
Eric: I have to jam it into my head faster for more commercials.
Julia: There it is.
Amanda: Yeah. It gives the podcasters twice as much revenue, right?
Eric: And before anyone says anything, I don't actually do that.
Julia: Thank you.
Eric: This is a comedy podcast.
Julia: Yes. That is true.
So with that background in mind, I think we can get into the episode.
Eric: I would like to say, Velma sounded like a grandma, which was confusing.
Julia: Yes. I'm sorry. I mean, they kind of make her like that typically in the episodes.
Eric: No, but she's a nerd but she sounded like a grandma.
Julia: She did.
Eric: You said that. You said in the middle while we were watching. You were like, "Why does Velma sound so weird?" And I'm like, "I know!"
Julia: Because the voice actress who played Velma had only played her once and it was in a Johnny Bravo ... either Johnny Bravo or Jonny Quest, I have to double check.
Eric: Johnny Bravo.
Julia: Was it Johnny Bravo?
Eric: Because in Johnny Bravo, there were a bunch of ... It was the fun thing. It's funny that ... I mean, spoiler alert ... Velma ends up with a lawman at the end of the movie.
Julia: Yes. Weird.
Eric: But on Cartoon Network, they were doing a bunch of-
Julia: Crossovers.
Eric: Yeah, inter-cartoon crossovers and this-
Amanda: I remember that, yeah.
Eric: And the one that they did there was like a-canonically Velma and Johnny Bravo were dating, which was bananas.
Julia: So that's the only other part where this woman played Velma was in that crossover episode before she did this role.
Amanda: Well, that's a pull for Johnny, I think.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah, he's a lucky bastard because Velma's great.
Eric: Well, he had a lot of feminists in his life telling him to get his shit together, so.
Julia: Yeah, thankfully.
So let's open up. We open on a creepy castle in the rain. Sure. And the orchestral setup is actually really nice. It kind of slaps.
Eric: It definitely does.
Julia: It's very different from the rest of the music in the show.
Amanda: Yeah. They also have a Smashing Pumpkins cover of the Scooby-Doo theme, so-
Julia: It's not Smashing Pumpkins, it's Third Eye Blind.
Amanda: Sure is. I was thinking even older than the very 90s band that it was.
Julia: It's still very, very good music.
Amanda: Well, that slaps. And I couldn't find the soundtrack anywhere online, but if an enterprising conspirator would like to find it, I will gladly add it to my daily rotation.
Julia: Yes. I definitely think we can find it somewhere. I'm sure.
Eric: That definitely fits with my first favorite, What's New, Scooby-Doo?, which is covered by Simple Plan.
Julia: Yep. That sounds right.
Amanda: Incredible. I love it.
Julia: It was right.
Amanda: It's also a tight 75, which I did just have to mention. Top.
Julia: Yes. It was 77 minutes exactly. I was like, "Ooh, yes." Amanda loves a tight 90 or less.
Amanda: Yeah. I also really appreciated how we, as you were saying Julia, have a very creepy scene, a traditional castle, Scooby-Doo capers, and it ends up being a framing device. This is an end of an episode pretty much, which ends up being a memory Daphne's recalling on a talk show, which we love a framing device and I thought that was really wonderful.
Julia: Yes, and I think it's important to note only because it's my favorite part of every Scooby-Doo one, where it's they unmask the person and then they tell you, "It's the blah blah blah and he was doing blah blah blah." So in this opening scene, it was the real estate agent who was printing fake money in the basement.
Eric: So good.
Julia: So good.
Amanda: Isn't that what real estate just is, though?
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Am I right?
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: Mr. Beeman, where ... His name was Mr. Beeman, too.
Julia: Was it? Oh Jesus.
Eric: Which is great. It was like, I don't understand what the ... There's just so many things going on.
Julia: There's a lot.
Eric: He's scaring people away. He can't put his money press anywhere else other than this haunted Scottish castle?
Julia: Yeah. I mean, no one will look there I guess, you know? And if he just keeps it on the market ...
Amanda: And printing money in a cold and wet space is really advantageous.
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: In my head, it was in Europe or it was in Scotland or in the UK, so I'm like, "Oh, keep making pounds. I'm sure they'll be fine in the future."
Julia: Are you sure that there's not giant haunted houses and haunted castles like that in the United States?
Eric: Not like that.
Julia: Yeah, not like that.
So as Amanda said, this is a framing device. Daphne has been running a TV show with just Fred. They were just like, "He's the producer and also the only cameraman and only crewman." I'm like, "How? Why?"
Amanda: This sounds terrible. They're not even dating. Why is this happening?
Julia: They're not even dating.
Eric: I was like, "Who's editing this?"
Julia: Apparently Fred.
Amanda: In camera.
Eric: Listen, he has iMovie in his camera.
Julia: Yes. So the gang has been separated for a year now. Shaggy and Scooby are working as customs agents ...
Eric: Terrible.
Julia: ... at an airport.
Amanda: Very good. Very good job for them.
Julia: Meanwhile-
Amanda: Until they eat all the contraband.
Julia: Yeah, that's the problem.
Amanda: You know, they're fired.
Julia: And then Velma is running her own mystery bookstore.
Amanda: Very good again.
Julia: It's very good. I love it. And then Fred kind of just calls the gang all back together because they're going to do a ghost tour because Daphne is like, "We spent a lot of time unmasking fake ghosts. I want to find a real one."
Eric: So, I don't understand what was Daphne exactly getting at. It was like, does she want to be famous, does she want to find ghosts, or does she want to have a famous TV show? Because I didn't really understand because the whole time ... and then there becomes the montage where they keep unmasking ghosts.
Julia: Wonderful montage.
Eric: Yeah, but it's like New Orleans flavored and she's disappointed by it every single time. But if she was an influencer and she was leaning into her own celebrity, people still love her for doing the thing, I don't understand why it was a problem that they weren't real.
Julia: I think she's been doing the thing for a while and then she had this idea and she wanted to be like, "I'm going to prove that ghosts are real." And Fred's like, "Sounds good," and they just went to do that, I guess. I think you're thinking too much into the motivation of a Scooby-Doo character.
Eric: I 100% was.
Amanda: I thought her motivation was pretty clear. She was getting a little bit burned out about doing this false unmaskings. And they did it with the gang, that was really fun. Maybe on her own it's not as fun, so she is sort of looking for something new, maybe some authenticity, some reminder of why she got into the game. I think it's just feeling a little bit stale for her, a little bit old.
Eric: That's fair. I guess in my head, I wanted Daphne to say the line, "I spent so much time unmasking criminals, I just want to take the criminals down," and then she becomes a lawyer.
Julia: That's, I mean, great. I love it. This is the first instance that we see of Daphne being not the damsel in distress for once, so I'm a big fan of that.
Eric: She did a ton of running in the swamp in heels, though.
Julia: She did an arm drag on one of the zombies later on in the film.
Eric: It was pretty good.
Julia: It was very good.
Amanda: It's wonderful, and there truly is so much to get to.
Julia: So the gang piles into the Mystery Machine, which is just the Mystery Machine ...
Eric: Just the Mystery Machine.
Julia: ... but Fred had put a sticker over it and then he tears it off when the gang's all back together.
Amanda: Wonderful.
Eric: Why is the coloring the same? Oh, it's because it's the same thing.
Julia: Yeah. And so they all head down to New Orleans because there's lots of hauntings in New Orleans, and there's a beautiful montage where they visit spooky places but they're all fakes, as the music tells us. Before the first guy is ever unmasked, the music's like, "They're all fake. They're just guys in masks."
Eric: This one was by Seminole band Skycycle.
Julia: Beautiful. Thank you for remembering that. The crawfish monster is my personal favorite.
Amanda: Yeah, that one's extremely good. I would watch that montage again. I would just put it on YouTube while I'm getting ready in the morning.
Julia: And the music, it's just ... It's a banger.
Amanda: I know. It's extremely good. It made me feel like making a playlist that starts with Monster Mash. Not necessarily for Halloween, just for fun.
Julia: Fair enough. I appreciate that.
Eric: I respect that.
Julia: So they finally get to New Orleans. We see the gang kind of hanging out in the French Quarter and they meet Lena, who is played by Tara Strong.
Eric: Oh.
Amanda: Really?
Julia: Yeah.
Eric: So this explains something larger here, which is just Scooby-Doo got the cash and they're like, "Hey, any voice actor's that around, if you just want to hop on here." I like that Lena ... you could tell that she's mysterious because she has hoop earrings.
Julia: Of course. Obviously.
Amanda: Yeah. Some problematic gesturing happening here with her characterization, that's for sure.
Eric: I do appreciate the constellation of accents that we have going on here, because Lena is just like hard Southern accent, just straightforward, even if you're in New Orleans you're just a Southern lady who's hanging out here.
Amanda: At like a cotillion.
Julia: Yes. When we meet Simone later she just is a straight French accent.
Eric: Exactly.
Julia: There's no mix.
Amanda: And then there's her friend Mark Hamill.
Julia: Yes. We'll talk about all of the accents going into it once we meet the characters. But yeah, so they meet Lena. She is a chef on Moonscar Island, which he says is super haunted and-
Amanda: Moonscar.
Julia: And basically invites the gang over there, and then Velma looks it up on their database ...
Eric: Loved it.
Julia: ... which is what? The internet? I'm not sure.
Amanda: I love it so much.
Julia: And she's like, "Oh, there have been strange disappearances there. Let's go."
Eric: They have Monster JSTOR in the back of the van.
Julia: They do.
Amanda: I was asking myself, what access does she have that national criminal databases warrant. I don't think the National Criminal Database CODIS was a thing right now. And also, I don't know why she would know that and then cops wouldn't be looking into these mysterious disappearances. But then they were.
Julia: Yeah, they were. Ha ha. There you go.
Amanda: Ha ha. Foreshadowing.
Julia: So they follow Lena onto the ferry.
Eric: Oh wait, I forgot about this.
Julia: Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Eric: Before we get to this, I also love that Lena's just a chef because the only way to get Shaggy and Scooby to do anything ...
Julia: Food.
Eric: ... is to be like, "Hey, there's food here."
Julia: "Come with us, there's food."
Eric: They play them both as so stupid. I cannot get over it.
Julia: They are, though.
Eric: They are, but not even enough ... They're dumb as rocks, which comes up various times. But I'm just like, "Hey, Shaggy and Scooby, I know that you like eating in this place, but in this other place, there is also food."
Julia: There are hot peppers there.
Eric: Oh my God the hot peppers.
Julia: So they decide to follow Lena to Moonscar Island. They have to take a ferry, in which we're introduced to Jacques.
Eric: Jacques, my favorite character.
Julia: Do you know who Jacques is played by?
Eric: Yeah. Jim Cummings.
Julia: Jim Cummings, who also played a Cajun character in Princess and the Frog.
Amanda: I saw that and I was like, "Good on ya." I hope the accent improved.
Julia: Yes. It's-
Eric: He learned hard into that Cajun accent.
Julia: It's about the same.
Eric: It's so good.
Julia: But Jim Cummings is a man of many, many, many voices ...
Amanda: Oh yeah.
Julia: ... so this is just one thing in his repertoire.
Amanda: It's definitely in that list of special skills in his resume.
Julia: That's all he does is just different voices.
Eric: I guess I was so thrown off by how Cajun he was going to be because Lena wasn't. So I'm like, okay, we got Southern people and then Jim's like, "Oh, ho, ho, let's get on my ferry." And I'm like, "What is happening?" Jacques. I'm like, "This guy is a bad guy because I do not understand anything he's saying."
"let's get on the ferry."
Julia: All right. So they get on the ferry. Lena reacts poorly when she sees Scooby because her "employer keeps cats," is the phrase she uses. I'm like, "Hate that phrase."
Amanda: Hate that phrase a lot.
Julia: Don't like it a lot.
Eric: This is the first instance where they say, "A dog," and Scooby says, "Dog, where?"
Amanda: Which, don't worry, will happen three more times throughout the film.
Julia: Rule of three, Amanda.
Eric: Happen four times.
Julia: No, it happens four times.
Amanda: Oh no.
Julia: They kept-
Eric: It's 75 minutes and that joke happens four times.
Julia: So they also meet the weird catfish that Mark Hamill's obsessed with.
Amanda: Which I also pointed out, I think it's the first catfish I've ever seen animated and I just appreciate that.
Julia: Yeah, all right. Fair.
Eric: Sorry. Her name's Big Mona. Please.
Julia: Yeah, sorry. Big Mona.
Eric: Please, let's name the epic catfish.
Julia: So Big Mona purposefully makes Scooby and Shaggy fall off of the boat into gator-infested waters where they're saved by a Crocodile Dundee looking motherfucker named Snakebite, Mark Hamill.
Amanda: Played by Mark Hamill.
Eric: Snakebite ... it was like Scruthers?
Julia: Snakebite Scruggs.
Eric: Oh, Snakebite Scruggs. I was like, "Mmm, muah, these names, muah, muah."
Julia: He also has a hunting pig named Mojo.
Eric: Oh, I love Mojo.
Amanda: He does, he does.
Eric: Mojo's great.
Julia: Oh boy.
Amanda: It's a very good name for a hunting pig, though.
Julia: It is. It's very good.
Amanda: Also, wild pigs are extremely dangerous.
Julia: Yes, they are.
Eric: He looked dangerous. He had tusks.
Julia: He chases after them and almost kills them later, so yeah.
Eric: I thought it was a boar because he's-
Julia: Yeah, no, it is.
Eric: I was like, "Oh, by the way, I own a wild animal that kills people in Macbeth."
Amanda: They kill humans sometimes.
Eric: Oh no, I confused Macbeth and Game of Thrones.
Julia: Okay, yeah. That's fair.
Eric: I thought that Baratheon and King Duncan were the same.
Amanda: I bet the overlap of people who identify with Robert Baratheon and people who have played King Duncan in community theater is ...
Julia: The same?
Amanda: ... is significant.
Eric: It's a circle if it was a Venn diagram.
Julia: It's a circle. But yeah, he called it a hunting pig, so I'm just going to go with that.
Eric: I don't want to spoil this because it's a 1998 movie, but Snakebite has no bearing on the actual plot.
Julia: Nope.
Amanda: None.
Eric: So when Mark Hamill showed up, I'm like, "Oh, if you can recognize ..." I mean, he does have evil person voice, especially Mark Hamill did the Joker in the Batman animated series, so it's like if you recognize that, it's like, "Oh, this is a bad man. He is going to be the villain." But then since he's trying to catch a catfish, it's a literal red herring.
Julia: Yes, it is. Well, the whole point of a Scooby-Doo is you introduce at least three or four people who are not the bad guys so that you get thrown off the trail.
Amanda: Well, I don't even know if we meet three people who aren't the bad guys, but-
Julia: We meet two.
Amanda: That's true.
Eric: Out of all the people that we meet, we just meet two. Hey, the guy who was making po' boys for Shaggy and Scooby.
Julia: Oh yes, of course.
Eric: Not a bad guy.
Amanda: Frankly, the ghosts, too. And I guess a lot of the ghosts weren't bad guys, though many of them were Confederate soldiers so ...
Julia: Yeah, not great.
Amanda: Jury's out on that one.
Julia: Not great.
Eric: We need to get back to that because I had so many questions ...
Julia: Okay, we'll come back.
Eric: ... before the, "What exactly is happening" dump at the end of the movie.
Julia: So we get to Moonscar Island. The road is super bumpy. We come across the plantation house, which is ... ooh boy. They only-
Amanda: Yeah. They just called that.
Julia: In the flashback later they only show white people working on it.
Eric: Oh, no.
Amanda: Julia-
Julia: Do they?
Eric: No, they showed one black woman.
Julia: Not great.
Eric: And it was just one and she was in the background.
Amanda: She was in one frame of the movie, but yeah.
Eric: I had to pause it.
Julia: But it wasn't as problematic as it could have been.
Eric: I know it was so bad.
Julia: I don't know which one is worse.
Amanda: I mean, I don't know which is worse either but it definitely smacks of there are no people of color on the production team whatsoever, so instead of paying somebody or engaging with this, wondering how to make it in a plot and paying experts to help them, no, they just showed nary a black person in this entire movie.
Julia: There's maybe two in the entire film.
Amanda: Yeah, and it has no bearing on the plot. There is this-
Julia: There's no speaking roles for them.
Amanda: No speaking roles at all. It deals explicitly with the history of New Orleans and the many kinds of conquership.
Julia: Yes, it's rough.
Amanda: Nothing at all happened there, but yeah, that was my first moment where she was like, "Oh, it's been in my family for generations," and I was like, "Wow, so your family definitely owned slaves then?" That's where we're at.
Julia: Yes. Ooh, yeah.
So Amanda, we spend a lot of time on social media as artists, as podcasters, as people who live in the now.
Amanda: Sure do.
Julia: So I feel like it's really important for people like us to develop healthy social media strategies, so basically figuring out when is a good time to go on social media, not being forced to check all of those likes and retweets and stuff every single minute of every single day. So I started taking a class with Arleesha Yetzer, who is a watercolor illustrator and YouTube artist called Healthy Social Media Strategies for Artists: Creating Your Rhythm Map.
Amanda: Ooh, that sounds wonderful.
Julia: Yeah, and I started taking this class with Skillshare because Skillshare has a ton of classes designed for artists, designed for people who are looking to further their curiosity, their creativity, and their career. There's over 25,000 classes. So whether you're looking for a new passion, if you're looking to start a side hustle, or if you're looking to gain new professional skills, Skillshare is there to help you keep learning, thriving, and reaching those new goals that you set for your life.
Amanda: I love that so much. And Skillshare is offering our audience access to all of their classes for free. It's unlimited. It's as many as you want to take and can take. That's at skillshare.com/spirits2, the number 2, for two free months of Skillshare Premium.
Julia: Yep. Again, go to skillshare.com/spirits2 for two free months of Skillshare Premium.
Amanda: Thanks, Skillshare.
And Julia, cultivating good habits for yourself really reminds me of something, again, that I know I talk about all the time, but I really struggle with sleep. I am an anxious machine and my brain, whenever there is nothing else to focus on, loves to focus on all the things I have to do, all the ways those things could go wrong, and all the mistakes that I've made throughout my life. So I really enjoy having something to focus on when I go to sleep that isn't a podcast. I know for a lot of folks they do fall asleep to podcasts, but for me it's work, so whenever I listen to a podcast I'm thinking, "Oh, that's a great idea," or, "Oh, I want to do that," or it makes me have ideas for work and that's not what I'm trying to do when I'm trying to get to sleep at 2:00 in the morning.
So I am really grateful for Calm, especially their sleep stories and their soundscapes, but I've been trying to get more into the daily meditation as well. And listeners today can get 25% off a Calm Premium subscription at calm.com/spirits. That's C-A-L-M dot C-O-M slash Spirits.
Julia: Yep. 40 million people have downloaded Calm so you can find out why today by going to calm.com/spirits.
Amanda: And finally, we are sponsored this week by ThirdLove. Julia, it's getting chillier here and I am super excited about that. But also it means that I'm wearing button downs most days, which for folks with boobs can sometimes be challenging because those buttons ... just not placed where they should be.
Julia: Yeah, or you get that weird gap between the boob and the bra and you can see it through the button-up shirt and it doesn't look good.
Amanda: Yeah. When you want to show your bra in your outfit, freaking go for it, but at least for me, that's not what I'm going for when I wear a button down. So I am really grateful that I found ThirdLove bras. They're perfect T-shirt bra in particular is really, really helpful. The straps are padded so they don't dig in, they don't slip down, which is amazing. And the band and the little thing between the boobs stays right against your chest, which is amazing and doesn't make me feel worried or anxious when I am wearing a button down. And at least for me, I really enjoy the kind of minimizing effect. Everything is smoother and sleeker and makes my shirts fit a little bit better than it did before.
Julia: Yeah, and what's great is they have a really quick quiz ... it literally takes 60 seconds ... to find out what the best fit and style is for your boobs in particular. Not everyone is the same size or shape as you see on the models in magazines and stuff like that, so I think it's important that you find the best fit for you.
Amanda: And best of all, every single customer has 60 days to wear your bra, even wash it, really put it to the test, and if you don't love it, you can return it. ThirdLove then sanitizes it and donates it to somebody in need, which is awesome.
Julia: Yeah. ThirdLove knows that there's a perfect bra for everyone, so right now they're offering our listeners 15% off your first order by going to thirdlove.com/spirits, and you can find your perfect fitting bra.
Amanda: That's at thirdlove.com/spirits for 15% off. Good luck. We hope you find an awesome bra. And now, let's get back to the show.
Julia: So they come to the plantation house. It is crawling with cats, which Scooby then chases, which upsets the gardener whose name is Beau.
Amanda: Yeah. That's true, that's true.
Julia: Yes. And they run into Ms. Simone Lenoir.
Amanda: Yes.
Eric: This French lady.
Amanda: What a name.
Julia: It just means "the black."
Eric: Simone Black.
Amanda: Maybe that's the representation that they ...
Julia: Oh Jesus.
Amanda: ... that they were including in this movie.
Eric: Oh my God.
Julia: So we find out it was a pepper plantation. The house has "restless spirits." The team hears screaming, but it's just Scooby and Shaggy who are reacting to eating the hot peppers in the house.
Amanda: Yeah, I also love that in this tight 77 we do get four different instances ... long, long, wonderful, generous scenes ... of them eating peppers and having high jinx.
Eric: The whole time when they were competitively eating peppers together I'm like, "What is Shaggy and Scooby's YouTube channel like?"
Julia: It's just that. What was that guy who would just make giant burritos and stuff like that and then eat them?
Eric: Oh, Epic Meal Time.
Julia: Yep, that one.
Eric: Yeah, but it's-
Julia: It's just that.
Eric: The talking dog. Also, this is another thing that I just cannot get over in the Scooby-Doo universe, but no one questions that Scooby can talk. Ever.
Julia: No. Just that he's a dog.
Amanda: Yeah, I asked Eric this at one point when they were still in the streets of New Orleans and Lena is like, "Oh, is he good with cats?" and Scooby just talks out loud. I'm like, "Does she hear him? What's happening here?"
Eric: Yes. Would you like to ask the dog or the owner? I don't know who to start with.
Amanda: Is this like Star Trek rules where we all just have universal translators built into our coms or whatever?
Julia: No, it's just ... the dog speaks English.
Eric: I also want to put a pin in the peppers and the plantation because it's something that I have a big question to ask about at the end.
Julia: Okay. Sure. Okay, so they run in. Shaggy and Scooby have eaten the hot peppers, which is why they were screaming. The rest of the team gets a tour of the house. They stay in the kitchen. An orb carves "get out" into the kitchen wall while they're in there, and then "beware" when Daphne comes back in because they scream again. And then Velma starts floating.
Amanda: She does. She does.
Julia: Yep.
Amanda: And she's like, "I'm in a skirt, Fred. This isn't funny. Get me down."
Julia: There's also a very gay scene where Daphne is like, "Oh my God, this is such a cool thing that's happening," and Velma is holding down her skirt and is saying, "Yeah, from down there I'm sure it's great." I was like, "Yeah, gay."
Amanda: I get it. I get it.
Julia: So reviewing the footage of Daphne in front of the get out/beware thing, they see ...
Eric: So good.
Julia: ... the ghost of Morgan Moonscar.
Amanda: Just a full ghost. They just zoom and enhanced and there's a full ghost captured there.
Eric: "Hold on, let me adjust the contrast."
Julia: I will give them credit, it wasn't just like, "I'm enhancing it." He was like, "Oh, let me darken the photo a little and then create a contrast."
Amanda: With his in-camera iMovie circa 1998.
Eric: Because he has iMovie. That's why it explains how expensive the camera was.
Julia: Yep, it's so good.
Amanda: Yup.
Julia: So Shaggy and Scooby get hungry again.
Amanda: Oh, so sorry. Sorry. I did call Fred the original VSCO girl in my notes. I just wanted to make sure I got that out there.
Julia: Beautiful.
Eric: I just like how obvious the pirate was. It's just like-
Julia: "Here I am."
Amanda: Not even a blur or a smudge, just a full outline of a pirate.
Julia: "Here's my cutlass."
Eric: "Sup y'all? This is my cutlass. This is my unboxing video of my cutlass."
Julia: God. So Shaggy and Scooby grow hungry again because of course, so they decide to go on a picnic. Velma investigates the carving and discovers that the house is made out of Morgan Moonscar's pirate ship.
Amanda: She just like peels stucco off the wall.
Julia: Yeah, I get it.
Eric: With a spatula.
Julia: And she's doing it and then she just steps back and she's like, "Oh, I've revealed this. Oh, I removed a lot of stuff."
Eric: And they're just like, "What are you doing to my wall?"
Julia: "To my kitchen?"
Eric: And she's like, "I'm doing mystery things."
Julia: Yeah. "You all understand."
Amanda: Yeah. I mean, Daphne is very relatable though as she is just so stoked about creepy shit and wants to make sure that her content's good. I'm like, "I know. Yeah."
So on their picnic, Scooby chases more cats and they wind up running into Snakebite again, who then sends Mojo after them so they wind up landing in a hole for some reason.
Eric: A real big hole.
Amanda: An open hole.
Julia: Where they then uncover the body of Morgan Moonscar, which then reanimates and chases them.
Amanda: Sure does. Sure does. They don't even do anything to it. They don't even sneeze on it or say a word over it.
Julia: No, it's just-
Amanda: It's just out.
Eric: This is the question I have for you, Julia, because I knew it was Zombie Island but I didn't remember how zombified everything was. So this spirit was going around the body, put decayed flesh onto the skeleton, and then it was a zombie. That is highly untraditional. The body is usually animated by different means.
Julia: Yes, and it's typically a new dead person ...
Eric: Exactly.
Julia: ... when we're talking traditional hoodoo voodoo zombies.
Eric: Right. And at the end, it kind of makes a little more sense because it's more about the spirit itself. And the fact that we see the spirit a lot because it's green and it flies everywhere and also sometimes it turns into a pirate ghost.
Julia: Yep, sometimes.
Eric: But it's not Scooby-Doo and the Pirate Ghost. It's Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island.
Julia: It could be Scooby-Doo and the Werecats, but that would give away too much of the plot.
Eric: That's what it probably was.
Amanda: Yeah, we do get a very ... they're called zombies because there's a skeleton that's reanimated, but it's like, it's a reanimated skeleton. That's just how it is.
Julia: But I mean, because it has flesh on it, that makes it a zombie. If we're not talking about traditional, we're talking about ...
Amanda: Like pop culture zombie.
Julia: ... George Romero version of zombie and onward.
Eric: Right. That's why I thought it was weird that they put decayed flesh back on the skeleton. That was weird.
Julia: I mean, more traditionally they would be called ghouls rather than zombies, but because we're in New Orleans they have to be zombies, I guess.
Amanda: I think this production team has a lot bigger questions that we need to interrogate them with.
Julia: Yes.
Eric: It was the lowest monster question.
Julia: So fleeing from the zombies, Scooby and Shaggy manage to escape but they run into the gardener, Beau ...
Amanda: They do.
Julia: ... who's being creepy elsewhere.
Amanda: I will say that during some of these chases, they do have a soft focus style that they put in where the fictional camera angle will sharpen on someone in the background and I just really appreciated that. I haven't seen that in much animation and it was really cool.
Eric: Beau's also cut.
Julia: Beau's so ripped.
Eric: He has hard angles.
Julia: He's played by one of the guys who did the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Eric: Nice.
Amanda: Like it sounds from his artistic soul.
Eric: A better reveal was that Beau was a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.
Julia: Would have been better. Anyway, so they are forced to stay on the island for the night because the ferry doesn't run at night. Sure, why not?
Amanda: Classic. Classic.
Eric: But they own the ferry.
Julia: I know. Well, they-
Eric: I wasn't like, "Oh, Jacques works for the city of New Orleans."
Julia: Jacques works on his own.
Eric: It's like you're going to one house on one bayou. I feel like you can run the ferry if you want.
Julia: I'm sure he has other stops. So Shaggy and Scooby see the Confederate colonel ghost in their room. Velma finds basically a property of label on the back of the mirror because why not.
Eric: As Roman Mars says, always read the inscription.
Julia: And then Simone tells them that this used to be a Confederate barracks and that they existed on the island.
Eric: Okay, this is another question I had.
Amanda: At which point I was like, "Yes, let's layer on more unspoken echoes of white supremacy and slavery that are only unspoken because you're not speaking about them."
Eric: And I'm not a US history aficionado ... Twitter, so shut up ... but I'm just like, "Why do you need a fort in the middle of the bayou in Louisiana?"
Julia: I don't know. I don't know, man.
Amanda: Don't know.
Julia: It just-
Eric: Oh, but didn't you look up something about Louisiana during the Civil War.
Amanda: Yeah. It was annexed by the Union pretty quickly but who knows about the timeline here. There are, again, broader questions we have about the timeline.
Julia: As a port city, I imagine that's true. Maybe they were doing weird guerrilla warfare tactics. I don't know. In the bayou.
Eric: It makes sense. It was just in the bayou and I'm like, "I don't know how this is related to-"
Amanda: Louisiana did secede, so there was a brief period of time of two, three years when they were not under the Union.
Julia: Sure.
Eric: I just didn't think it was staffed up enough to be in a plantation that's only accessible by ferry, that it was worthwhile enough.
Julia: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. I agree.
Amanda: It was puzzling.
Julia: So Scooby and Shaggy eat in the Mystery Machine because Scooby keeps chasing the cats so they can't sit down for regular dinner. But the cat-
Amanda: Being in a state of constant terror in 2019 also makes me hungry all the time, so.
Eric: Oh, I love that. That was a good screenshot.
Julia: But they decide to move the car because the cats keep bothering them. They're in the trees and on top of the car, and anyway, it's wild.
Eric: The thing I was thinking, I was like, "Shaggy, do you have a license?"
Julia: No.
Eric: I don't think I've ever seen Shaggy drive before.
Julia: He's too high all the time to drive.
Amanda: I don't know. Somehow Scooby got a work permit so the sort of licensing situation-
Julia: He's a dog. He had a vest on.
Amanda: That's true.
Julia: It wasn't like they hired him as a customs official.
Amanda: No, they have to pass exams though.
Julia: Yeah, all right. This is-
Eric: Scooby can also talk, which is helpful for 1990 ... Listen, pre-9/11.
Julia: I was going to say-
Eric: Just work in the airport whenever you want.
Julia: Yeah, it's just a dog. To sniff out cheese.
Amanda: It's just a volunteer corps.
Julia: Yeah. Anyway. So meanwhile, Daphne still believes that there are ghosts while Fred and Velma are just like, "It's probably just a guy in a mask," which is always the case so I don't blame them for not believing. Scooby and Shaggy are then attacked by zombies in the bayou and attempt to escape in the Mystery Machine but it becomes stuck in the mud and they're again found by Beau. Beau just keeps showing up when the zombies show up.
Amanda: Oh no.
Julia: So the gang hears the screaming and goes to investigate. Velma and Fred suspect Beau so they split up. Velma goes with Beau because Fred is jealous that Daphne things Beau is cute, I think. It's weird.
Eric: Well, Fred also says that Lena is cute, like explicitly.
Julia: Yeah, I know. It's weird.
Amanda: Yeah. They have a thing where they're telling each other how cute someone else is but hoping they're going to say that each other is cute, but they're just not communicating. Guys.
Julia: So they split up to find Scooby and Shaggy. Beau saves Velma from quicksand because why not.
Amanda: Yes. You got to have quicksand in a Scooby-Doo.
Julia: Of course. Fred and Daphne find the Mystery Machine and then the find Shaggy, Scooby, and a zombie. They then attempt to unmask the zombie.
Amanda: Very good.
Eric: So this was another question I had.
Julia: Good.
Eric: Now it's established that it is a zombie, but the zombie was knocked out. But how does a zombie lose consciousness? And then all of a sudden when all the other zombies showed up and I guess the spirit comes through and animates the zombie, then it wakes up? Because they're all fucking around with the head.
Julia: We saw the thing when they're fleeing from the zombies in the Mystery Machine. They manage to throw one off the van and it hits a tree and then it stays there for a second and then it gets back up, so at this point Daphne had arm dragged the zombie onto the floor, so I think it was just stunned for a moment ...
Eric: I figured.
Julia: ... and then that's when they try to unmask it.
Eric: I figured. Again, this is not a zombie, more like an animated body from a ghoul. But it's like the green spirit needed to be around to put the spirit in the zombie.
Julia: Moonscar's spirit.
Eric: Yes, exactly.
Amanda: We also see here that the bodies that are being animated hail from different time periods, so we see a tourist with a camera, more modern, and folks kind of everywhere in between.
Julia: I think notably it's the tourist, the pirates, and then the ...
Eric: Confederate soldiers.
Julia: Confederate. I think there were some Union ones in there, too, because I saw gray and blue.
Amanda: Could be. Could be.
Eric: Probably.
Julia: Soldiers from the Civil War.
Eric: Yes, exactly.
Julia: Cool.
Eric: That does make sense, though. If there was a battle down there, that does make sense.
Julia: Sure. Zombies would be there.
Eric: But at this point, it makes absolutely no sense. They don't reference why there are different types of zombies. They're all just zombies.
Julia: Yep. It's revealed later.
Amanda: It is. That is one thing that I felt satisfied about because the whole time we were like, "Why does that guy have a camera?"
Julia: Fair.
Amanda: It was just, were these reenactors? Are these real pirates? What's happening?
Julia: So they split up again, fleeing from these zombies. They lose each other in the process. Shaggy and Scooby find clay voodoo dolls in a cave and they're voodoo dolls of ...
Amanda: Why not, Julia?
Julia: ... of just Fred, Velma, and Daphne.
Amanda: Why not?
Julia: Yes, because why not. So they end up picking them up and the team elsewhere is involuntarily picked up, start hitting and slapping each other on accident.
Amanda: Yeah, classic caper. Love it.
Eric: Classic.
Julia: There's one where Velma just right hooks Beau and it's very good and it's like, "Mm-hmm, all right, cool."
Amanda: Love that.
Eric: Velma's like, "I'm obviously not doing this," and Beau's like ...
Julia: ... gardener.
Eric: "I'm a gardener."
Julia: Eventually Shaggy and Scooby are forced to leave the dolls behind because they are chased out of a cave by a bunch of bats.
Eric: Oh, that's right. Okay. So this is the cave.
Julia: Yes.
Eric: This is a classic Scooby-Doo thing that Shaggy and Scooby accidentally fall into where bad things are happening.
Julia: Of course.
Eric: I love that. They're just like, "Here's a cave that's easily slide into-able."
Julia: Obviously, like all caves.
Eric: I'm going to figure out a major clue.
Julia: There we go. So they all run back to the house following the sound of screaming where they find that the power's out in the house.
Amanda: Sure is.
Julia: We're getting into the climax of the movie at this point. Fred finds a trap door in the stairs by falling through them.
Amanda: Got to.
Eric: Great place to find a trap door.
Julia: And he finds Lena. Lena says that zombies dragged Simone away, which makes Velma suspicious because she looks at the footprints but doesn't say anything yet. So she confronts Lena later as they kind of make their way down this creepy hallway that's underneath the house for some reason.
Amanda: Explicitly a Confederate stronghold.
Julia: Yeah. And so Simone-
Amanda: Just because guys, they didn't have to make that choice. Just why is this happening? So confused.
Julia: And then in the creepy hallway and the weird chamber at the end of it, Simone reveals herself by using the voodoo dolls that we saw before.
Eric: Oh, yes.
Julia: Which the gang calls them voodoo dolls but the ladies never do. Simone and Lena never use the term voodoo dolls. They just say dolls. Wax dolls is what they use.
Eric: I assumed it was voodoo for two reasons. One, Nawlins. I feel like that's par for the course of Scooby-Doo. If it's something that can control someone with only a little bit of their ... Oh, that was the thing. I thought this was bullshit. Daphne had her hair, which is very traditional. A piece of you is what is in your voodoo doll. But Fred was a part of his ascot-
Amanda: Which he didn't even wear the ascot the entire film.
Eric: There was only one joke about it because he put it away before he went down to dinner. And then Velma, it was her eyeglasses cleaning cloth.
Julia: Yes, but Velma can't see without her glasses.
Eric: That's true, but also how much DNA is on that thing?
Julia: So much.
Eric: Is it?
Amanda: I don't think it's Polyjuice Potion rules, though. I don't think it has to be biologically a part of the person. I think it has to be part of their essence or a go-to item ...
Julia: Something that they hold onto all the time.
Amanda: ... something that they hold onto, yeah.
Eric: I think that's what it was. I assumed it was in the-
Julia: She even said, "That's my eyeglass cleaner."
Eric: Yeah, right. In American understanding of voodoo dolls, I assumed it had to be a part of you. Because it's always hair or saliva or a tooth.
Julia: A piece of fabric, yeah. Something like that.
Eric: So I thought that was interesting.
Amanda: I've seen a piece of fabric used, though. But I think you're right, it's more to do with your spirit and less to do with Polyjuice Potion rules, your body.
Eric: Listen, I know I'm nitpicking but as much as I want to turn Spirits into a three guys talking about The Dark Knight movie podcast, I do need to bring up the monsters every once in a while.
Julia: I will say ... because I forgot to mention it earlier ... the woman who plays Simone in this also played Catwoman in the Batman animated series.
Eric: Oh.
Amanda: Really?
Julia: So she and Mark Hamill, and also I guess Tara Strong a little bit are all kind of interconnected.
Amanda: In the universe.
Julia: Via this movie.
Amanda: Nice.
Julia: Anyway, so Simone is waiting for the harvest moon to start, because obviously.
Amanda: Oh, and is a cat person, by the way.
Julia: Well, we're getting there.
Amanda: Oh.
Eric: Hold up. Let's tease it out a little bit.
Julia: She reveals that she's been kidnapping people for over 200 years and then she transforms into a cat creature.
Amanda: Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. My notes were just, "Uh oh Lena. And a cat person. This isn't even sci. A cat lady?"
Eric: Well now she's a cat lady. Now she's not full-
Julia: They're not full werecat yet. So they basically look like the vampires from Buffy but with more catlike features.
Eric: Like if they were a furry. Like if Spike was a furry, this is what they would look like.
Julia: Sure.
Amanda: It's true.
Julia: So Scooby and Shaggy-
Eric: For references.
Julia: Scooby and Shaggy run into the ferryman Jacques, who also transforms into a werecat.
Eric: This is my single, god damn, fucking favorite part of the movie.
Amanda: It's wonderful.
Eric: Jacques has not appeared since the ferry and I'm like, "Oh my God, if Jacques is a cat person and a god damn fucking voice comes out of a cat I'm going to lose my entire shit."
Amanda: Sure did.
Eric: But he's full cat. He goes immediately from Jacques, middle aged man, to Jacques, werecat with Cajun accent. And I'm just like, "Muah, muah, thank you. Thank you so much."
Julia: Thank you, Jim Cummings.
Amanda: Yeah. It is really wonderful. It's dark outside so the yellow eyes really light up. And for me, it was still impactful to see Lena and Simone eventually turn full werecat because I assumed because they were men and women it was different and the lady werecats had boobs, so I wasn't quite sure.
Julia: I think it's a more ... the ladies had more control over their powers ...
Amanda: Exactly.
Julia: ... because they're direct worshipers and also ...
Amanda: They were older.
Julia: ... they are older and more experienced.
Eric: Right. And that comes up later because Jacques gets pulled in.
Julia: Hold on, I got this, don't worry.
Eric: I also love that Jacques has auburn fur but he just has gray hair and I'm like, "Ah."
Julia: Yeah, just make him gray.
Eric: As a young man, he had auburn hair, guys.
Julia: There you go, fix it.
Amanda: In our werecat form, we are ageless.
Julia: Okay, so Simone tells us that she worships a cat god for a bountiful harvest back in the day.
Eric: Not a cat god. The cat god.
Julia: Oh, I'm so sorry.
Eric: You know Julia, from all of your studies, the cat god.
Julia: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Eric: There's just one.
Amanda: Yes, the clearly identifiable figure in folklore.
Julia: There's just one. They landed there as settlers in 1757 or one of those-
Amanda: Oh, so she's explicitly a colonizer, too. Just so that we can ...
Eric: 100%.
Amanda: ... just layer on that final, muah, cherry on top.
Julia: She's a white person. Of course she's a colonizer. Sorry.
Amanda: Not even that, which is also true, but she's explicitly a settler. It was just such a decision.
Eric: And also they throw on the sepia tone and they go back in time, so you literally saw them do stuff in the first Thanksgiving that you would see.
Amanda: Style dinner, yeah.
Eric: And that's where the one black person was.
Julia: Okay, great.
Amanda: Briefly at a table.
Julia: They would worship the cat god for a bountiful harvest and the settlers were attacked by Morgan Moonscar and-
Amanda: Oh, Moonscar, like from the island.
Julia: Yes. From the island. And from the ghost that we saw earlier. So-
Eric: Amanda, just for all the people listening at home, were you joking?
Amanda: Yes, I was joking.
Julia: Okay, thank you.
Eric: I was just checking.
Julia: Thank you.
Eric: That was very good.
Amanda: I'm glad I brought my own peanut gallery and against the reply guys guy. Appreciate that.
Julia: So the pirates-
Eric: Julia's just tired from trying to figure out how this all falls together.
Julia: I'm just trying to get through the exposition. The pirates chase all of the settlers except Simone and Lena into the alligator infested waters and they're all eaten off camera. So they decide to put a curse on the pirates and they become "cat creatures." And then they find out after that they were also cursed by the cat god because why not.
Amanda: Are we surprised?
Julia: So basically they have to make a sacrifice and drain energy out of people in order to keep on living every harvest moon and Lena has been luring people to drain their energy for 200 years.
Amanda: Which is why all the different time periods of bodies.
Julia: There you go, answered that question.
Eric: I have three big questions that I wanted to ask.
Julia: Go for it.
Eric: Okay. So who do you think is the cat god?
Julia: I think that these people didn't do any research.
Eric: Obviously.
Julia: Obviously. But if we're going for white settlers who are also Pagan, instinct is telling me Hekate.
Eric: Oh.
Amanda: Interesting.
Eric: That's definitely possible.
Julia: Because Hekate associated with cats, would transform into cats in a lot of mythology, would make sense to transform her women worshipers into cat creatures in order to gain revenge.
Amanda: Oh, all right.
Eric: Got it.
Julia: That's my theory. I'm sticking to it.
Amanda: I like it.
Eric: I love that. Second question. This is a history question.
Julia: Cool.
Eric: Would it have been possible for privateers/pirates to have tried to conquer, fuck shit up in Louisiana?
Julia: Absolutely. The French had a big problem, as I can remember from my American history, with pirates and privateers in the Port of New Orleans, so it would make sense for them to be kind of hiding out in the bayou where people can't really get to unless they have small ships.
Eric: Wonderful. Here's my third question. This is not a history question but more of a discussion that I want to have with everyone.
Julia: Sure.
Eric: Okay, so in the first iteration-
Amanda: Here's our do now for this episode.
Julia: Thank you.
Eric: The first iteration is the pirate people, so they all die. Then, I think, comes the ... in large cycles. Then comes the Confederate people who made the pepper plantation. That's what they talked about, the Moonscar peppers.
Julia: Are they the Confederates? I thought that was a separate group because the Confederate soldiers I think is later.
Amanda: They used the existing plantation house as a stronghold, so I think at some point there were some kind of settlers.
Julia: So the plantation that made a plantation.
Eric: We went from American Revolution, then we went into the early 1800s where-
Amanda: Yes, agriculture, slavery.
Eric: Yeah, shit was off with the slave trade where they made the pepper plantation. And then the first time that you saw them attack a different person to gain their life force was just this one white guy picking peppers, which no one would have done.
Julia: Sure, sure, sure.
Eric: That's the slavery erasure there. Here's my question. Shaggy and Scooby are eating pickled plantation peppers the entire time.
Julia: Say that quickly, please.
Eric: Shaggy and Scooby pickled plantation peppers.
Julia: Okay, beautiful.
Eric: Shaggy and Scooby eat pickled ... The unique-
Amanda: Which they tell us are plantation peppers. They did not need to.
Eric: Unique New York, unique New York.
Julia: There we go. Perfect.
Eric: So after they killed all of the people who were on the plantation in let's say round two ...
Julia: Sure.
Eric: ... did Lena and Simone look at each other and it was like, "Yo, we should just keep this shit going."
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: They're just like, "I don't want to die."
Eric: But then do they stop hiding and then they started being humans and then they had to industrialize the place?
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: I figure. I figure that they're remote, they're not often seen. Lena can go into town under different guises and I think they just ... yeah, they decided to wipe out whoever created this infrastructure and then take it over for profit.
Julia: Yeah, and I think like vampires they can change identities and be like, "Ah yes, I'm Simone's granddaughter."
Amanda: "Oh no, I'm her granddaughter. Isn't it such an uncanny resemblance?"
Julia: "We took over the house," yes.
Eric: I thought that, too. I just thought it was funny. They're like that's the implication, was that they sell them and they was jarred in their pantry, which is when Shaggy and Scooby started doing their Moonscar pepper challenge.
Amanda: I assume they sell some in town because-
Eric: That's why Lena was there in the first place.
Amanda: Yeah, like preserved it for-
Julia: Or I thought she was picking up groceries to bring back to the kitchen.
Amanda: No. Yeah, she was getting groceries in town.
Eric: It was just a general farmers market, yeah.
Julia: Yeah, that's fine.
Amanda: Well, I figure that they were selling some of those peppers for profit, but they totally could have been jarred just for home use and preservation.
Julia: They could also just be stealing money from the people they're murdering once a year.
Eric: Oh, 100%.
Amanda: Certainly. Yeah, no, that checks out.
Eric: I guess the only people who said it was famous Moonscar peppers was Lena, who is a cat person.
Julia: Can't trust her judgment.
Amanda: No, that is true.
Julia: Did we have any other questions before we move onto the end of the-
Eric: No, that was the entire sepia-toned section.
Julia: Okay, great.
Eric: I figure that was the history, the questions that I had.
Julia: Yeah. So Shaggy and Scooby show up and the women further transform into cat people, like just full fur now. Velma and Fred manage to grab their voodoo dolls ... because they were being controlled by the voodoo dolls, which they tied up with tiny little ropes.
Amanda: Tiny little ropes.
Julia: It was very cute.
Eric: Oh, classic voodoo doll high jinx was that the wax dolls were too close to the torch.
Amanda: It was very scary.
Eric: That's my fucking shit, though.
Julia: That is too body horror for me.
Amanda: Yeah, and the skin started getting very sweaty. It was a little bit too much. And then immediately move it away. Oh yes, my skin will just ... go back to normal.
Julia: Right back to normal. Daphne tries to explain to Shaggy and Scooby that the zombies are the good guys, which is, again, problematic because a lot of them are Confederate soldiers.
Amanda: Yes, the relatable and helpful Confederate soldiers, yes.
Julia: Velma gets free and is able to free the others. Lena and Simone begin draining Shaggy and Scooby, but Velma and Daphne have turned the voodoo dolls into Lena and Simone voodoo dolls and manage to momentarily stop them.
Amanda: It's very good. Also the cat women are described when they're making cat screeches as "caterwauling" in the subtitles.
Julia: Oh my God.
Eric: The entire time.
Julia: Fuck me up.
Amanda: Which is perhaps the best joke in this entire movie, so excellent job subtitler, wherever you are.
Julia: So they manage to stall long enough ... They're not able to knock them out completely, but they stall long enough so that midnight passes and the three cat creatures dissolve into nothingness.
Amanda: Yup, they sure do.
Julia: And then the zombies are released from their curse as a result and also dissolve.
Amanda: They do. They do.
Julia: And then Beau reveals very late in the game that he's a detective investigating the missing people.
Eric: This is the least relatable part of the movie.
Julia: But he and Velma hit it off for some reason and they leave the island, inviting Beau to tell the story of what happened on TV.
Eric: Was there a part before the ending where the Confederate general says, "Thank you"?
Julia: Yes, there is.
Eric: Oh my God.
Julia: I wanted to leave it alone.
Eric: No, we have to talk about it.
Amanda: Listen, that's true. We also just ... I don't know, this decision to make cops really hot and relatable.
Julia: He was kind of an asshole until the last moment of the film, though.
Amanda: Yeah. There's many choices being made.
Eric: What I don't understand is that we've already introduced Moonscar, who is the new person, the historical figure that we need to think about, and usually when they do this in Scooby-Doo movies or Scooby-Doo episodes, you need to know one thing that is the history that is the ghost that's the monster. But then we have to introduce this Confederate general for some reason?
Julia: I feel like they were like, "Well, they can't all be pirates."
Eric: But they could've all been pirates.
Julia: They could've.
Amanda: They very well could have. I don't know. I mean, maybe it's because we have a luxurious 77 as opposed to ...
Julia: That is true.
Amanda: ... the regular 25, 22 if you speed it up for commercials.
Julia: I think they also just had to fill in the blanks for the 200 years. It couldn't have just been the pirates and then the tourists. There has to be something in the middle.
Amanda: Yeah. They're like, "Hmm, what else historically significant has happened in New Orleans in the last 300 years?"
Julia: In 200 years.
Amanda: Definitely Confederate bear.
Julia: Yikes. Yeah. Anyway-
Eric: It's so stupid.
Julia: So that's Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island.
Eric: Then it just ends. I loved so much that Snakebite had nothing to do in the movie.
Julia: The only thing-
Eric: Like, "Hey, Mark Hamill, what are you doing today? You want to be growly for-"
Amanda: "Come in for three hours, growl a bunch."
Julia: "We'll pay you so much money." So I think the only thing that Snakebite does in order to move the plot along is send Mojo after them and then they fall into the pit where they find Moonscar's body.
Eric: Right. But they could have done that with the zombies.
Amanda: But Mark Hamill.
Julia: Well, he has to set off the zombies. Moonscar's body sets off the rest of the zombies.
Eric: Right. That's right. But they could have-
Amanda: What was the pit for, though?
Julia: I don't know. They could have just had a wild boar chase them.
Eric: Exactly.
Julia: It didn't have to be Mojo.
Eric: Didn't they say that the pit ... This is another fucking detective ass Beau again.
Julia: Sorry, go ahead.
Eric: The reason with the pit, it was that he was trying to dig up the bodies so he could figure it out.
Julia: Sure.
Eric: And it still was huge. It was like a 10 by 10 by 10 foot cube.
Julia: Also, the body was there if you just fucking looked though. The hand was there. It was just off to the side.
Amanda: I know. Not a good stratagem for when you're undercover and there's no crime scene investigative team there.
Julia: Beau was a bad detective.
Amanda: I don't know, Beau was eye candy for Velma.
Julia: Fair. And also Daphne.
Amanda: And also Daphne. That's true. I do really appreciate, though, that Daphne is very career oriented, she's thinking about her content, she's thinking about branching out. No, she is, and trying to-
Julia: She'd be an influencer.
Amanda: Exactly. She was trying to make kind of a step two for herself.
Eric: Oh, I'm sorry. There were two black people in the movie. It was the talk show woman.
Amanda: The anchor, yeah.
Eric: It was the anchor at the beginning and then-
Julia: Oh, so there's three then.
Eric: No. Those were the two.
Julia: No, there's a third one because there's just a black man who walks through the farmer's market.
Eric: Ah, okay. Great.
Amanda: Yes. Adequate representation.
Julia: It's very close up and then everyone else behind him is white and you're like, "Okay."
Eric: I don't love that we need to count it.
Julia: Yeah, it's not great.
Anyway, so besides the problematic stuff about racism and the slave trade and the Civil War, what did we think about Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island?
Amanda: I thought it was baffling for all of those reason and distracting, but also incredibly entertaining and it made me want to rent all of the other Scooby-Doo movies right away. I definitely want to see the cyber chase one. Got to do it.
Eric: Oh, 100%.
Amanda: It was fun. I like Scooby-Doo.
Eric: I had a great time. I was glad that I could experience this with Amanda. I've totally forgot about the cat people. I wish that they had done a different title, but I kind of like that it's the bait and switch. And I'm sorry to all the moms and dads who put this on for their three year old ...
Amanda: And it was very scary.
Eric: ... and the three year old had nightmares.
Julia: The next one we're definitely going to watch at some point is Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost.
Amanda: The Witch's Ghost.
Julia: The Witch's Ghost. It takes place in Salem.
Amanda: Not just a witch, a ghost.
Eric: Two monsters on top of each other.
Julia: Yes.
Amanda: Om nom nom nom nom nom nom.
Julia: Om nom nom. Much like zombies and also cat creatures. It has both.
Amanda: Love it.
Eric: And as they say in New Orleans, "Oh, ho, ho, my name is Jacques and ..."
Julia: Also to stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.