Episode 01: Persephone and Hades

The first episode of Spirits introduces you to the ancient Greek gods with the story of Hades and Persephone. Find out why marrying siblings wasn't weird, hear what Hades was really like, and get tips on naming your dog straight from ancient Greece.

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Our music is: "Danger Storm" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

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Transcript

AM: Welcome to Spirits a drunken dive into myths and legends.

JS: Every episode we will mix a cocktail or uncork a bottle and discuss a new myth from somewhere in the world.

AM: You'll hear our take on familiar figures from Greek, Norse and Egyptian traditions and learn something new about the urban legends of Florida, London, New Jersey and more.

JS: And have we mentioned we're pretty funny?

AM: I hope so. We're your hosts, two friends, who are internet people and deeply bookish history nerds. Julia, why don't you start?

JS: Sure. I'm Julia. Spirits was born out of my lifelong love for mythology from my elementary school library all the way to university history and religious studies departments.

AM: You’re deeply into internet things too though.

JS: That’s right. Urban legends, community myths, X Files kind of things. All of it fascinates me and especially what these stories say about those of us who keep telling them, those who keep the myths alive.

AM: Julia should be everybody's phone-a-friend for mythology and history questions.

JS: And you're my person for literary trivia.

AM: Aww! Well, thanks. I'm Amanda, the mythology layperson in this duo. I'll be learning along with you, the listener, in each episode asking questions and providing verbal emoji as we go.

JS: I think they call those reactions?

AM: Shhh.

JS: Anyway, we're really excited to get started. Episode 1 starts on familiar ground with an Ancient Greek myth that you may have encountered before- the story of Persephone and Hades.

AM: Don't forget the faithful pomegranate and Spot.

JS: You'll have to listen to find out why the Greeks were the OG dog namers.

AM: We hope you like what you hear. Please subscribe to Spirits in iTunes or your preferred podcast app and follow us on social media @SpiritsPodcast

JS: And leave us a review if you're so inclined.  We also have a Patreon page where you can sign up for exclusive behind the scenes photos, audio extras, blooper reels and beautiful recipe cards with custom drink and snack pairings to go along with each show.

AM: This week's drink features pomegranates, very on-brand, Jules.

JS: I try.

AM: And now: Spirits.

Episode Intro

JS: The Greeks did a lot of like, weird stuff. Like, they're off like, you know? Having sex with their sisters.

AM: What?

JS: Marrying people, raping swans, like that kind of thing. Like, it's... they did weird stuff.

AM: I mean, all I really know is that the urns and the pottery and the statues that I’ve seen in the museums.

JS: The naked bodies on the urns--

AM: I don't-

JS: — And the weird dicks.

AM: I don't think I see all of that stuff in popular culture, and I mean, the Hercules movie, things didn’t really get that weird there.

JS: Well, because it's a Disney movie. You just have James Woods yelling and turning… fiery. He’s not really...

AM: Well,l that's all I know about the Greeks. I know that there's Zeus. There's something called Mount Olympus. There's different gods of various things. Apollo has wings on his feet or something. That's pretty much what I'm coming herewith.

JS: That’s Hermes. But yeah.

AM: Okay

JS: Pretty close. But basically, what you need to know is all the important Greeks are related in some way. Greek mythology, Greek gods are all related in some way.

AM: To each other?

JS: To each other.

AM: Okay.

JS: Because they're all like, basically brothers and sisters or children of those brothers and sisters.

AM: So where, where do these come from? What were they made out of?

JS: They were born... so, the Greeks personify basically everything. So like, anything they don't understand they're like that's a god of the ocean or the sky or the earth or the wind or-

AM: Right.

JS: -love. Like, even like non-physical things. So they're born from the Titans. The Titans are like big gods basically who like control big aspects. So Chronos is the god of like time.

AM: Okay.

JS: And the earth.

AM: Oh, interesting. So the sort of like, you know, he created time, he created light, he created the earth, he created the water.

JS: Right. So, he is married to his sister Gaia, who is the goddess of the earth.

AM: That one I've heard of before.

JS: Yeah.

AM: Is the marrying the sister thing, is that just how it works?

JS: It's like the weird like Harry Potter Pure-blood kind of thing where it's just like they want to keep it in the family so you're not corrupted.

AM: Oh, so you don't dilute the power.

JS: Exactly.

AM: And interesting. So when we talk later about, you know? Relations with relations...

JS: It doesn't-

AM: If you want to put it that way.

JS: It doesn't matter. It's not like weird for the Greeks. They're like...

AM: Okay.

JS: Yeah, it makes sense because-

AM: Okay.

JS: - there's only so many gods and they all have to have children and stuff. So...

AM: I see.

JS: And so Chronos and Gaia have a bunch of kids and so Chronos finds out from another one of his like sister ti- his sister Titans or brother Titans that...

AM: Right.

JS: There's a prophecy that one of his children is gonna kill him.

AM: Interesting.

JS: And take over.

AM: This plotline I've heard of before. I guess something that we're going to see a lot as the series goes on, Is that many of the stories and plotlines that we think about now and the things that we see in soap operas and movies—

JS: The Greeks did first.

AM: -that we write about, the Greeks did a long time ago.

JS: Yes.

AM: So, that's one of them the, “The my son might kill me.” plotline.

JS: So the thought -he, in order to kind of make sure that none of his children kill him, as soon as Gaia like, pops them out, when she's pregnant...

AM: Right.

JS: He eats them.

AM: Ahhh... that'll do it.

JS: That'll do it, right? Like, they can't kill him from inside.

AM: Or can they?

JS: Hmm, not really.

AM: But...

JS: So guy oh, finally he's like--listen, I'm tired of you eating my children, so she pretends to give birth and like gives him this rock baby and secretly like, has birth has the child who ends up being Zeus, like in the ocean somewhere and then gives them to a bunch of--

AM:  I see...

JS: —like farmers so that they can take care of him.

AM: So Zeus is the one surviving child of the Titan?

JS: Right. And so when Zeus grows up, he's able to kill his father, cuts open his stomach, all his siblings are like alive and okay for whatever reason.

AM: Jonah and the whale style.

JS: Right. They're gods they can't really die even if they're being like digested for hundreds of years or whatever.

AM: So Chronos essentially made just like, a Faraday cage of his stomach.

JS: Yeah.

AM: He just kept them safe.

JS: Absolutely, and so he kills Chronos and so Zeus...

AM: Zeus kills Chronos?

JS: Zeus kills Chronos.

AM: Right.

JS: Frees all his siblings and becomes king of the gods.

AM: Interesting. So did they grow up on what we think of as the earth? Or is there a special like god plane?

JS: Yes, the Earth is their domain, but there's like a place where the gods like hang out and that's Mount Olympus.

AM: Got it.

JS: Which is like giant mountain. The gods hang up on top, like where no humans can reach so...

AM: Got it.

JS: It's like a good like, kind of excuse like, why don't we see the gods? Oh, they're all on Mount Olympus and we can't climb up that high.

AM: Right.

JS: Pretty easy

AM: Just out of reach.

JS: Right, and so each of the gods kind of becomes like, get... gains dominion over a certain aspect of culture. So there is a god... Zeus becomes the king god and becomes the god of like lightning in the sky. He marries his sister, Hera. She becomes the goddess of like, marriages and the household.

AM: Interesting.

JS: Then, his like brothers, Poseidon gets dominion over the ocean.

AM: Right.

JS: Hades gets dominion over the underworld.

AM: Interesting.

JS: And then his other sister, Demeter gets to dominion over like the earth and fertility and like growing plants and stuff like that.

AM: And in time, we'll delve a little more into each of those.

JS: And we will. So we're going to talk a little bit about the story of Persephone and Hades, which is kind of a really important myth in Greek culture, and we'll see why later.

AM: So, is Persephone one of Zeus’ children?

JS: Persephone is the daughter of Demeter, but it's never really... her parentage doesn't really matter in the storyline.

AM: Okay, so she is descended from one of the original Zeus level gods.

JS: Right.

AM: Cool.

JS: She, she's the daughter of Demeter. So she has plant-like manipulation, that sort of thing. She's in charge of...

AM: Nature goddess!

JS: Nature goddess. She helps the plants grow. And she's more of the wild plants, not so much the...

AM: Agriculture?

JS: The agriculture like her mother is.

AM: So, do little flowers spring up in her walking her footsteps as she walks in the fields?

JS: That’s like a really common like kind of cultural understanding of her now.

AM: Sure.

JS: And it’s like, it totally could have worked I don't know if they ever mentioned that.

AM: Earth mother.

JS: Exactly.

AM: Cool.

JS: But like, maiden at the same time, she's like a young girl.

AM: Oh sure.

JS: Like, teenage virgin.

AM: Right.

JS: Like, goddess connected to nature.

AM: All potential budding etc, etc.

JS: Exactly. Uhm, so she was like kind of sought after by a bunch of the gods.

AM: Right.

JS: Like, all of her uncles kind of like just wanted to bang her. That was just a thing that could happen.

AM: I'm gonna suspend judgment because this is, this is an anthropological exercise, continue.

JS: But Demeter like wouldn't let her marry any of them.

AM: Okay.

JS: Because she's like, “No, this is my baby, no one can have her.” that sort of thing.

AM: Understandable.

JS: The god Hades, meanwhile, is kind of like, “Mmmm… she's pretty hot and like, it gets lonely down in the underworld. So I need a wife.”

AM: So is Hades evil?

JS: Hades isn't evil.

AM: Or is the underworld just where he's at?

JS: The underworld is just where he's at. It's a part of like, Greek mythology. Like it's a part of their culture. They don't like, fear him but they always like, they always like give him credit. Like if there's like a, if there's a ritual going on Hades is always like the last one to get stuff. Because they, they need to, like honor him because he controls what happens to them after they die.

AM: Right.

JS: But like, he's always like the last thought, you know what I mean?

AM: Aww... okay.

JS: He's like, he, he was the unlucky brother. He ended up in the underworld when his brothers got like the sky and the ocean.

AM: Oh no.

JS: So, he's kind of like a down on his luck kind of figure like he's kind of like melancholy, a character.

AM: Aww... Hades is just lonely. He just wants a wife.

JS: Pretty much and so kind of being socially awkward like Hades is he decides he's not gonna like ask for Persephone’s like hand in marriage or anything.

AM: That'd be too easy.

JS: He's just gonna like, grab her. So one day--

AM: Oh no.

JS: --Persephone is just like walking through a field with a bunch of nymphs and stuff like that, you know, frol... frolicking in the flowers that kind of thing.

AM: Like, flowers opening, grass growing.

JS: And all of a sudden, the earth opens up like, fiery volcanic opening up. Like, crack in the ground.

AM: Oh god!

JS: And Hades rides out in this like black chariot just like grabs up. The nymphs like run away like, don't try to help, whatsover.

AM: Obviously.

JS: And he drags her down in the underworld.

AM: Oh my gosh.

JS: The nymphs run back to Demeter because obviously like...

AM: Some shit just went down

JS: Her daughter just got stolen up and--

AM: From the earth?!

JS: --brought into the fucking ground. So, and Demeter is like a wreck, but the gods can't really go into the underworld that's like...

AM: That's his domain.

JS: It's his domain.

AM: Right.

JS: It's not really their area. They need like special permission to go down there.

AM: Interesting.

JS: And the underworld has a bunch of like, security measures like there's a river that makes you forget everything about your life.

AM: Oh my gosh.

JS: And like, a giant three-headed dog named Cerberus, who guards the entrances. Cerberus in Greek etymology means like spotted or dappled. So like, literally Hades named his dog, Spot.

AM: Oh, he named his dog "Spot." Oh my God!

JS: Which is such a fantastic name.

AM: I want to tell that fact to everyone I know.

JS: Absolutely, you do.

AM: But -

JS: It's like it's basically like if anyone's seen, Harry Potter...

AM: Right.

JS: That's Fluffy-

AM: Fluffy!

JS: -is Cerberus, and it’s great.

AM: Ahh. That's where tradition starts.

JS: And it's so, so good. But anyway, so Persephone is stuck down in hell. She's like-

AM: Right. So Demeter can't go down to the underworld.

JS: Demeter can't go down.

AM: Because she's not allowed. It's too hard. So what does she do?

JS: So she goes and appeals to Zeus because this is like, the big dad. He's the king.

AM: He's got a Disney Fast Pass on to underworld if he wants.

JS: Exactly. And so, Zeus is like, “Yeah, but like, my brother needs a wife.” and Demeter was like, “No, that is my child, he can't just have her, he has to ask.”

AM: Okay.

JS: And Zeus is like, “Fine. Okay, here's the deal. I'll go and I'll send Hermes.” who's the messenger God

AM: Okay.

JS: “I'll send him down to hell, and he'll bring back Demeter. But the problem is, if she's eaten any food down in the underworld she has to like, stay there with Hades.”

AM: Interesting. So why is that the litmus test?

JS: It's just the Greeks are weird like that. And also like, food is different in the Underworld. So to eat food in the Underworld means that you've sort of imbibed in the like, sort of like the emotional connection to the Underworld rather than the world of the living.

AM: Interesting. I can see it too because, you know? There might be a question of, does she want to stay does she want to come back and I guess eating the food implies a certain amount of comfort, right?

JS: Exactly.

AM: Like you're-- you're taking your shoes off, you're letting your hair down. You know, you're, you're staying in the underworld a little bit.

JS: And these are gods were talking about, they don't have to eat.

AM: Interesting.

JS: She chose to eat, and--

AM: So does she?

JS: She does, she ends up eating four pomegranate seeds, which Hades gives to her, which, once Hermes gets there, and like finds out that that's what happened.

AM: Right.

JS: Zeus decrees that Persephone has to stay in the Underworld for a third of the year.

AM: For four months.

JS: For four months out of the year.

AM: Oh, that's a pretty good custody sharing arrangement.

JS: I mean, like, yeah.

AM: Yeah.

JS: It kind of worked. So they ended up, they end up being married. Persephone is allowed to stay with her mother for eight months out of the year.

AM: Right.

JS: And then has to return for four months out of the year to the Underworld.

AM: So how does she feel about this?

JS: It's actually really interesting. Because of this, Persephone becomes a very dualistic goddess.

AM: Right.

JS: She becomes... when she's home, she's the goddess of Spring, she... the earth is reborn in her presence, that sort of thing. And then when she returns to the underworld, she is a very stoic, cold-hearted, they call her the goddess of iron--

AM: Wow.

JS: --in Greek mythology, she becomes a very dualistic, very different goddess when she's in one place or another.

AM: So you mentioned spring is this kind of the, the Greek explanation of why the earth is cold and hard and inhospitable and unforgiving for roughly a third of the year?

JS: Exactly.

AM: Boom!

JS: Because the way that they describe it is that when, when Persephone and Demeter are rejoined together there's that summer, everything is wonderful.

AM: Aww.

JS: The plants come together.

AM: Harmony.

JS: Everything's harvested.

AM: Yeah.

JS: And it's wonderful. When Persephone is starting to head back, Demeter starts to like, wither and the-

AM: Show her grief.

JS: --the ground comes to life.

AM: Wow.

JS: Winter is the time when Persephone is in the Underworld.

AM: Barren.

JS: Everything is dead and barren. And then when Persephone is coming home, it's Spring-time. Everything starts blossoming again and reborn from the death.

AM: Ahh. Wow, in preparation for return.

JS: Exactly. It's so cool.

AM: That's so poetic.

JS: The Greeks are so good at just kind of taking things that they don't understand and creating stories about them in order to give explanation to it.

AM: And relatable stories, too.

JS: Yeah.

AM: Can everyone, you know? Everyone can understand love for someone missing someone. A parent's commitment to, and love for a child, the grief when someone goes whether you know they're dying or they just move away from home.

JS: Absolutely. And the Greeks do such a good job of portraying the gods as human-like. Because these gods get jealous, they steal things away, they... you know? They take things and…

AM: They don't know how to ask someone to be their wife. So, they just take them up out of the ground--

JS: Exactly.

AM: -in the black chariot.

JS: Exactly, and the Greeks just do such a cool job in creating mythology that has persisted and stories that we know for like, thousands of years.

AM: Right, 3000 years later.

JS: Yeah.

AM: So what is Hades like? does... what does Persephone do? What does she get up to? Is it, is it the kind of black molten lava volcanic, you know? Kind of image that I have in my head?

JS: I mean, it depends on the like period in which the like poets are kind of writing about.

AM: Right.

JS: Um, the interesting part about Hades is he's not only the god of like death and the Underworld.

AM: Yeah.

JS: He's also the God of like, riches and minerals and gold.

AM: Ohh!

JS: Because these are things that you'll find in the underworld.

AM: A natural resource.

JS: Exactly.

AM: Interesting.

JS: So he's just like, yeah, he's got like all these like, terrible like souls are like kind of floating around like doing shit. But he's also like, got all the diamonds in the world.

AM: Wow!

JS: Like, that's his just… domain. So, he's an interesting god.

AM: So he doesn't have totally an odd lot, he has a little bit of, of a --

JS: No, like he's a little bit of nice stuff going on.

AM: Riches in there with all the, the magma.

JS: Yeah, what I picture... I mean, this is just my interpretation but when I picture Hades, I picture like black skin but also like kind of sparkly like, you know? Like, gold dust in there.

AM: Like onyx, right.

JS: Exactly. So I think that's, that's sort of like you have to kind of take the good with the bad in Greek mythology.

AM: Right.

JS: Like, everyone has another side to them, which is important.

AM: Wow. That's great.

JS: Yeah. So like, you know? next time you want to ask a girl out, don't just like grab her up in your chariot with like fire horses, like, be polite and ask her mother first.

AM: Exactly, next time you want to ask somebody out, don't scare their squad off with a, a rift in the ground and an imposing black chariot. Maybe write her a letter.

JS: Probably a good idea.

AM: Maybe, maybe ask her mom

JS: Probably would have made things a little bit easier.

AM: Yeah.

JS: Maybe we wouldn't have so much winter. Who knows?

AM: Thanks Persephone.

JS: Thanks Persephone

AM: Thanks Hades.

JS: Goddammit, Demeter.

Outro

AM: Spirits was created by Julia Schifini and me, Amanda McLoughlin. It's edited by Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod, Allyson Wakeman designed our logo.

JS: Subscribe to Spirits on your podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode. Our website is spiritspodcast.com and you can also find us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and SoundCloud.

AM: On our Patreon page, patreon.com/spiritspodcast. You can sign up for exclusive content like behind the scenes, photos, audio, extras, blooper reels and beautiful recipe cards with custom drink and snack pairings to go along with each show.

JS: Every little bit helps as we get our first season off the ground. Even better, if you liked the show, share it with your friends and review us on iTunes.

AM: Thanks so much for listening, 'till next time!

Transcriptionist:

Ljay Mendoza

Proofreader:

Krizia Marrie Casil