Episode 212: Over the Moon (Myth Movie Night)
/We’re closing out this year with the tale of Chang’e - or rather, the many tales of the Chinese moon goddess. We cry through a musical, blend tales of betrayal and love, and discuss the honesty of grief and moving on, drinks in hand.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of death, terminal illness, Covid-19, misogyny, murder, abusive relationships, emotional trauma, fire/death by fire, suicide, animal abuse, defecation, and family dysfunction.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Julia recommends The Grishaverse by Leigh Bardugo. Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at spiritspodcast.com/books
- Merch: Check out our digital merch, including the Cool Cryptid Compendium, at spiritspodcast.com/merch!
- Multitude: Check out other MultiShows! Search Multitude in your podcast player or go to multitude.productions.
Sponsors
- Calm is the #1 app to help you reduce your anxiety and stress and help you sleep better. Get 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at calm.com/spirits.
- BetterHelp is a secure online counseling service. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/spirits
- Brooklinen delivers luxury bed sheets, pillows, comforters, & blankets straight to your door. Go to Brooklinen.com right now and use promo code “spirits” for 10% off and free
shipping.
Find Us Online
If you like Spirits, help us grow by spreading the word! Follow us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Goodreads. You can support us on Patreon (http://patreon.com/spiritspodcast) to unlock bonus Your Urban Legends episodes, director’s commentaries, custom recipe cards, and so much more. We also have lists of our book recommendations and previous guests’ books at http://spiritspodcast.com/books.
Transcript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is Episode 212, the last one of 2020: Myth Movie Night with Over the Moon.
Julia: I regret that we weren't able to do this around mid-autumn because that is really when the movie takes place. But I am glad that we got to it for the end of the year because I think it is a great story. I think it's a great movie. And it's very sweet. And it's one that we haven't touched upon yet in Spirits.
Amanda: Absolutely. It was a really nice way to spend this last week of the year. So, good selection, Jules.
Julia: Plus, it's on Netflix. So, everyone can kind of close out their year with a nice feel good Netflix movie about loss and love.
Amanda: You know who's Netflix always has complete additions of all the shows they want to stream?
Julia: Is it our new patrons?
Amanda: Our new patrons: Bright Valkyrie, PeggyPegs, and Jane. Thank you so, so much for supporting this little podcast over on Patreon.
Julia: A little podcast that could. That's us.
Amanda: We don't always say the URL by the way. It's patreon.com/spiritspodcast if you would like to join the ranks, have your name read, and have us give you a compliment like we do every week for our supporting producer level patrons: Uhleeseeuh, Allison, Debra, Hannah, Jen, Jessica, Keegan, Kneazlekins, Liz, Megan Linger, Megan Moon, Phil Fresh, Polly, Sarah, Skyla, SamneyTodd, and Alex Forbes.
Julia: We love all these people. I would make a homemade rocket to the moon for them.
Amanda: Hell yes. And thanks as well to our legend level patrons: Audra, Chelsea, Drew, Frances, Jack Marie, Ki, Lada, Mark, Morgan, Necrofancy, Renegade, and Bea Me Up Scotty.
Julia: Now, they just own the moon. Legally, they own the moon now.
Amanda: 100 percent. Julia, I hope you had a great week off. What have you been reading, watching, or listening to?
Julia: So, I recently saw the trailer for Netflix series about a book series that I read a while back. So, I did what any normal person would do and ordered all five books of that series. And I've been reading them.
Amanda: Hell yeah.
Julia: So, that is the Grishaverse by Leigh Bardugo. The Netflix series that is coming out is called Shadow and Bone, off of the first book in the series. It's very good. It is – I think I might have recommended it, like, a while back. But I'm recommending it again because I'm rereading it. But it is, like, magical Russia, magic users, political intrigue, saving the world. There's a saint. It's very good.
Amanda: That sounds absolutely amazing.
Julia: You know what else is amazing, Amanda? Our fellow shows here at Multitude.
Amanda: It's true. It's been quite a year for many reasons, but one of them is that it's hard to be an independent media business. And I am just really proud that all of us are around, and making shows, and doing the stuff we love as a job, which is pretty amazing. So, if you sweet, sweet conspirator would like to listen to more stuff or want to help us out and recommend one of the Multitude shows to a friend or family member who you think would really love it, it's a great time to do it. You can go to multitude.productions to check out all of our shows in one place or just put Multitude into your podcast player and all of our shows will come up.
Julia: Yeah, I'm the kind of person that one of my love languages is, like, I really love this thing. So, I want to share it with you. And one of the easiest things to do is recommending podcasts to other people. So, you can listen together and be like, “Oh, my god. Did you listen to that most recent episode of Exolore? Oh, my god. Let's talk about it,” because it's just showing that you're thinking of that person and it's a thing that you guys can talk about.
Amanda: Absolutely. Well, we really appreciate all of you being there. We appreciate you doing this. We appreciate that we have a whole nother year of making Spirits coming up. And I don't know. It's just it's a nice kind of grateful feeling to go out on and continue the work in 2021.
Julia: Absolutely.
Amanda: So, without further ado, everybody, enjoy Spirits Podcast Episode 212: Over the Moon.
Intro Music
Julia: So, Amanda, welcome back to another Myth Movie Night. One that, within the first five minutes of the film, made me cry. So --
Amanda: Yeah, my, my cry count was at about five for this one.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: Somehow, I forgot that people don't just live charming and stress free family lives in sweet animated movies. So, that one was on me.
Julia: That was part of it. I feel like I just haven't listened to a new musical in a while. And, so, the idea of, like, music conveying intense emotion via storytelling threw me for a loop. Ho boy.
Amanda: How dare they?
Julia: Oh, I just miss it. I miss Broadway. I miss live stage and, now, I’m real sad. But --
Amanda: I do. I miss Phillipa Soo, one of the stars in this movie.
Julia: Yes. Oh, my god. This cast is absolutely buck wild in terms of very, very impressive actors and actresses.
Amanda: Yeah, Sandra Oh makes an appearance. Margaret Cho makes an appearance. We have heartthrob, John Cho. He's there. It's just – it's incredible.
Julia: It's – it's, honestly, great. I just – this cast is incredible. But let's – let's do our summary, Amanda. I believe it is your turn.
Amanda: It sure is. I'm going do my best. So, as usual, everybody if you want to avoid spoilers and go see the film on your own, you can skip forward about three minutes. We're going to do a two-minute summary and then a little bit of a discussion afterward.
Julia: Yeah. Also, like, you know, you can pause it and listen to this later if you want to watch the movie first. It's on Netflix.
Amanda: It's really good. It's really worth it.
Julia: Okay. Amanda, are you ready?
Amanda: I am ready.
Julia: All right. Ready, set, go.
Amanda: Okay. So, our protagonist, Fei Fei is an adorable little child who grows up with adorable parents who love her. And, clearly, I forgot that that means that one of them will die.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: So, in fact, we, we meet her and her parents with their very sweet mooncake shop. And it's just adorable. There's meaning. And we opened, specifically, with Fei Fei’s mom telling her the story of Chang’e, the moon goddess, and the fact that she was separated from her great love and is sort of, like, exiled to the moon. And she has her Jade Rabbit there with her. And she, you know, is constantly trying to reunite with her love. But it's very sad because her – you know, she was immortal and her love was mortal. And then he died here on Earth. And I was like, “Damn, she just said that that she died to, to the – to the child.” So, echoing this a little bit, Fei Fei’s mom passes away. We see the passage of time. And then Fei Fei is kind of, like, a – like – I don't know – 12 or 13. Like, a very early teen or late kid as it were. And she sort of gets frustrated that her dad is about to marry somebody new with a – with a son named Chin. And she – obviously, it’s very understandable. And, so, she basically takes inspiration from a magnetic high speed train that's being built in her village and then builds a rocket to take her to the moon. And, even though she doesn't make it to the moon on her own, she is picked up by, like, a beam of energy. And, sure enough, Chang’e is real. She lives on the moon. She's kind of a mix of, like, a pop star and the Wizard of Oz. And there are all kinds of adventures as Fei Fei tries to help the moon goddess reunite with her love, which she does, only to sort of realize that, like, love is letting go and – you know, sometimes. And, so, she lets go and Fei Fei lets go of kind of missing her mom so desperately and reunite with her family on Earth and her new brother, Chin, to, you know, be happy and move on and always remember her mom but know that she has to, like, live her life for herself anew.
Julia: Dang. Like, right on time.
Amanda: A lot of plot points in the whole – like, I described the first quarter and then, like, the last 10 percent.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: A lot of stuff in the middle there specifically that I'm sure we're gonna get into in terms of the, the myth and what parts are accurate and what aren't. But it's really fun. It's like a really sweet mix of, you know, sweet, like, rural life in China and moon theatrics. So, it was really fantastic.
Julia: Also, if you think, “Oh, I can watch a movie with Ken Jeong where he sings a song and I won't cry,” you will cry. In fact, you will.
Amanda: You will. You will.
Julia: Oh, man. But, yeah, it's – it's a great movie. And it has such a wonderful basis in the mythology around Chang’e and the Mid-Autumn Moon Festival. So, I, I just want to dive right in. Are you ready? Are you ready to go?
Amanda: Yeah, let's do it. Please.
Julia: So, Over the Moon focuses on the story of Fei Fei and her relationship with her family and their story surrounding the moon goddess, Chang’e. As the movie kind of implies from the various stories that the aunties tell over dinner, there are many different versions of Chang’e’s story. Some portraying her in a better light than others, which I think is fairly common in a lot of mythological stories and is a result of, like, different gods and goddesses going in and out of style through the generations and receiving more or less worship depending on who's in power. We see that a lot with the Greeks, for example. Like, when a one-city state would take over another city state, all of a sudden, like, “Oh, well, we like Athena a lot more now because, you know, Athens rules us.” So --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -- I think that's a pretty, pretty common thing and especially when you look at the vast history of Chinese folklore and mythology and just Chinese history in general. However, there are some key points that the story of Chang’e tend to mention or incorporate, most of which we see in the film. There is her love of Houyi, the archer. There is usually an emperor, which we don't really see in the film. There is a elixir or pill of life for immortality and, of course, the moon. And this story is, as the movie makes it clear, tied to the Mid-Autumn Moon Festival, which this year was on October 1st. So, unfortunately, we missed it. But, maybe next year, we'll do something to kind of – to commemorate that day. It actually fell on the same day this year as National Day. So, it turned into, like, this big eight-day festival, which is very cool. Like, I like when different holidays kind of align --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -- with each other.
Amanda: Quite synchronous.
Julia: But let's tell the story of Chang’e or, at least, try to cover some of the different versions of it. So, it is said that Chang’e was the beautiful young woman who worked as a servant in the Jade Emperor's Palace. Now, the Jade Emperor was the first god and his heavenly palace was, of course, in the heavens, which he ruled over as well as Earth. For context, he's not the creator of heaven and earth, but rather assisted the divine master of heavenly origin who then chose the Jade Emperor as his personal successor. So, that's – that's kind of cool. A little background.
Amanda: It’s a really interesting mix, I think, of, like, divine selection and being good at your job, which is just really resonant for me.
Julia: It's, like, the best internship.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Honestly. So, So, Chang’e is working in the heavenly palace. And, one day, she accidentally breaks this precious porcelain jar. And, in his anger, the Jade Emperor banished her from the heavens to live on Earth. However, he told her that, if she contributed a valuable service on Earth, she would be allowed back in heaven.
Amanda: Fair enough. I mean a banishment is a banishment, but, at least, you have a sort of option for renewal here.
Julia: Yes, you have a way back in. If you really want to --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -- you can – you could get back. So, Chang’e, in her form on Earth, became the beautiful but poor daughter of a farming family and lived a fairly simple life. However, one day, when she was tending her crop, a young hunter named, Houyi, spotted her --
Amanda: Hey.
Julia: -- and introduced himself. In some stories, it's kind of, like, a love at first sight kind of thing. In others, they, they simply became close friends. I, personally, as a fan of romance, prefer a slow build. So, I go with the, the friends first story. I’m into that.
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: And this is all fine and well, except, one day, after the two have become friends, 10 sons rise into the sky instead of the usual single one.
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: Yeah, not great and odd in itself. But, as you can imagine, having 10 suns in the sky, the Earth suddenly becomes very hot and the sun's begin to burn the earth.
Amanda: I mean --
Julia: Not good.
Amanda: -- not good. You, you think, like, “Oh, my gosh, what a beautiful display,” and then, “Oh, no.”
Julia: So, it was Houyi, the expert archer that he was, who came to the aid of the Earth. With his bow and his arrow, he's able to shoot down nine of the suns leaving only one remaining. Interestingly, there's this little, like, tidbit. Like, each time he shoots down a sun, it turns into a three-legged crow or a three-legged raven, which I'm not entirely sure what that's supposed to represent. But I think it's a cool little fun fact.
Amanda: There's a really beautiful motif of what looks – I mean the thing that I've seen that's closest to is a heron. I'm sure that wasn't the kind of bird that it is.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: But, like, a beautiful long-legged crane, you know, white type bird.
Julia: Yes, we will talk about the representation of what the cranes talk about later.
Amanda: Oh, good.
Julia: But appreciate it.
Amanda: Excellent. I was like, “There's only two legs. I was counting. I knew it was going to be symbolically rich.”
Julia: That's absolutely true. Thank you for, for keeping those distinct – distinct imageries. Interestingly, also, there's a whole thing where Houyi’s, like, probably gonna shoot down the 10th Sun, but then the, the mother of the Sun is like, “Please don't kill my last child.” And the Jade Emperor is like, “We probably need another sun to make sure that, you know, the, the world doesn't freeze.” And Houyi is like, “All right. Okay. Fine.”
Amanda: All right. Listens to – listens to stuff, I respected. He seems great. He seems like an unproblematic fate.
Julia: Umm, hold on.
Amanda: Oh, no. Oh, damn.
Julia: He, of course, was the savior for the people. And they made him king. And, keeping with his streak of success, he and his childhood friend, Chang’e, marry each other. He was living the dream, honestly, so is Chang’e. It's pretty great. You know, you're married to your best friend. He's also the king. That's awesome, right? But, you know, power changes a person, right? Houyi becomes obsessed with the idea of staying alive forever and orders that an elixir of life should be created so that he can stay alive and stay young and continue to rule. Eventually, the elixir is made into the form of a single pill and Chang’e finds it before it is presented to Houyi. What happens next depends on which story you're hearing just like the auntie's are arguing at the table in the movie, but Chang’e swallows the pill. In this version, where Houyi is, like, the tyrant king, Chang’e is afraid of what he might do if he was to live forever and that the people he ruled over would continue to suffer. So, that's why she takes the pill so that he can't have it and he can't continue to rule. And Houyi, obviously, is going to be extremely mad about this. And, so, he chases his wife, who escaped by jumping out a window of the tallest part of the palace. But, rather than falling, she begins to float into the sky. And whether that is because of the mortality pill or divine intervention is, again, dependent on the story you're listening to. Most people attribute it to the pill, which is like --
Amanda: Right.
Julia: Man, it lets you float and grants you, like, immortality and eternal youth. That's pretty good. Pretty solid, honestly.
Amanda: Yeah, there are many kinds of immortality sort of modifications that we see in stories. And the one that I like the most is the one where, like, you are constantly averting near death scenarios versus, like, heroes style. Like, you get injured and then you heal really fast. Or, you, you know, just kind of, like, bounce back or you reincarnate or reset. I love the ones where it's just like, “Oh, nope, like, this knife misses you very slightly” or, you know, “Yes, you fall on a you know, shopkeeper’s awning or something very cool like that.”
Julia: It's like immortality through extreme luck.
Amanda: Exactly, yeah.
Julia: I like that a lot. So, as Chang’e floats up to the moon, Houyi attempts to shoot her down with his arrows. But, apparently, his aim isn't what it used to be because he just straight up misses.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: And she's able to float away. So, Chang’e arrives on the moon, where she is accompanied by the Jade Rabbit who is also already there. We'll talk about that in a second. And he is said to be constantly pounding the elixir of immortality for her in a large mortar. Like, it seems like she has to keep taking it --
Amanda: Mhmm.
Julia: -- in order to stay immortal, which, like, the --
Amanda: Interesting.
Julia: -- movie kind of plays with. He's – he's always, like, doing something.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: In one version of the story, it is said that the celestial queen mother, who I believe is supposed to be the wife of the Jade Emperor or, at least, has a child or children with him, she turns Chang’e into a three-legged toad when she arrives on the moon as punishment, which I think the film kind of pays homage to with, like, those giant lunar toads that we see towards the end of the film --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -- and also the fact that, like, Chin has a toad frog companion for the film, which is very cute.
Amanda: Definitely.
Julia: It's also like the chillest frog I've ever seen in a movie. It's very chill.
Amanda: I know. I expected very many examples of him, like, shooting poison, or, you know, yelling, or whatever it might be. But he was very – he was very comfortable when he was caught. He was like, “Fair enough.”
Julia: He's like, “Fair enough. I'm chill.” And he's just gives, like, very, like – not snide looks, but just like very content with himself looks.
Amanda: Yeah, it's – I mean, listen, this is a complete side note. But, every time I watch an animated movie, sort of like this or in this style, I'm amazed by the nuances of expression that it manages to convey. It's – it's truly so artful.
Julia: It was so good. I also noticed that the eyebrow game in the animation of all the people is extremely good.
Amanda: Yes. No, it really is.
Julia: Chang’e has eyebrows, you can see, like, every individual hair of her eyebrows and they look great.
Amanda: Yeah. And then, at the very end of the film, there is a shot involving a willow tree. And I, like, backed it up to watch again several times because I sort of pictured it – I think, sometimes, like, when they were pitching this movie, you know, and got approval to do it because, like, that's the thing that I do in my job now with various projects. Like, what was the image that made somebody say yes? And, to me, if they had, like, painted that still with the willow tree, that would make me say, like, “Damn, this team knows what they're doing. Okay. Yes.”
Julia: So, all of the outfits that Chang’e wears in the films were actually designed and created by a haute couture Chinese designer named Guo Pei.
Amanda: Oh, my god.
Julia: And I'm just like, “That is – it is so cool that you brought in an actual, like, haute couture clothing designer to design all of the outfits for your goddess. That is very, very cool.
Amanda: That is so cool. And she definitely – like, they play with kind of authenticity and sort of, like, she is distracting herself with pomp and circumstance is kind of the implication. And then, when she sort of regresses emotionally almost – or maybe not regresses, but, like, comes back to her true self or, like, acknowledges the kind of hurt at the center of her, her costuming and her face sort of revert back to what I'm assuming is either, like, what she was when she was human or what she used to be when she was younger. And that kind of stylistic exchange was really fascinating.
Julia: Yeah, she kind of spends that final scene in a very simplified outfit and stuff like that and no makeup or anything like that. It's really, really, like, beautiful, beautiful imagery.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So, in the versions of the story where Houyi is the tyrant, this is the reason that the Mid-Autumn Moon Festival celebrated to kind of honor the sacrifice that Chang’e made so that Houyi would, like, not live forever. So, that's a reason that we, you know, celebrate.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: But there is another version of the tale that paints Houyi in, like, a much better light. He kind of lives this quite storied life as an adventurer after his sun slaying. So, he kills and imprison several of these, like, fearsome mythological beasts on bequest of the king, King Yao, because they're causing problems for his kingdom and for humanity in general. And, so, for his services, the gods gifted Houyi the pill of immortality so that he might ascend to godhood, which is like a big deal – a huge deal.
Amanda: Dang. Yeah.
Julia: However, one of his apprentices breaks into Houyi’s house to find the pill when he knows that he's out hunting. And Chang’e is home at the time of the break in and she hides the pill in her mouth. However, when the apprentice kind of threatens her, she accidentally swallows it, which, once again, causes her to begin to float into the sky.
Amanda: Right.
Julia: In this version, she chooses to land on the moon and remains there because the moon is the closest, like, heavenly body to earth and she wants to be close to her husband, who she still loves.
Amanda: Right.
Julia: But, when Houyi discovers what happened, he – basically, he's just like, “Okay. Well, my wife is on the moon now. That sucks. In her, like, honor and her memory, I'm going to lay out these fruits and cakes that I know she loves in order to, to, like, let her know, hey, I'm still thinking about you and I still love you too.”
Amanda: It's very cute. I mean, every time I see or read about a, an altar for a dead relative, I just get teared – teary. Like, it just happens every time.
Julia: Yeah. And they, they have that imagery in the film, which I think is, is really beautiful.
Amanda: And it, it factors into The Duke Who Didn't, a book I recommended a few episodes ago.
Julia: Ooh, fun. But this, again, is not the only version of the story either, which is kind of what I love about this kind of mythology. There's so many different versions of the same story, each with like their own moral or agenda depending on who is telling it. And it's just fascinating and wonderful. And we'll get into the details of the other versions and some additional mythological creatures that are touched upon in the film when we get back from our refill.
Amanda: Let's go.
Midroll Music
Amanda: Oh, Julia, thank god. I have been waiting for several months to do this Brooklinen ad because I love my Brooklinen sheets so much.
Julia: Aren't they great?
Amanda: Over Christmas, I was talking to my uncle and he was like, “Yeah, I just – I bought some new sheets up for Lake Placid. You know, our grandparents house.” And I was like, “Oh, my god, you should have told me. I am completely obsessed with Brooklinen. They're a sponsor of the show.” And he was like, “No way. Those are the sheets I bought.”
Julia: Aha!
Amanda: So, he didn't use our discount code, but you can, conspirators. It's one of those companies where you hear it and you're like, “Surely, it can't be as good as the hype or, you know, I feel marketed to because they get me in my aesthetic in their ads and patterns. And I don't know if it's actually real.” It's real. The sheets are amazing. We call them the buttery soft. Like, oh, I'm gonna get into the buttery soft and I just don't want to go to bed. And it's kind of a problem.
Julia: It takes a certain level of quality sheets for my husband to actively recommend to random people. And that is the type of quality of sheet that Brooklinen is providing.
Amanda: It is truly incredible. They don't just have sheets, by the way. They have comforters, pillows, towels, even loungewear. I bought two of their loungewear t-shirts and I've worn them to the office, like, every single week for the last several months. So, I'm gonna buy myself more. It, it is truly incredible. It is a sponsor we are so, so happy to have on the show. And, trust me, all, it, it lives up to the hype. So, don't wait. Do something nice for yourself and go to brooklinen.com, use the promo code SPIRITS to get 10 percent off your first order and free shipping.
Julia: That's B-R-O-O-K-L-I-N-E-N.com. and enter the promo code SPIRITS for 10 percent off your first order plus free shipping.
Amanda: brooklinen.com, promo code SPIRITs at checkout. Thank you, Brooklinen, for giving me the buttery soft.
Julia: Speaking of our beds and not wanting to get out of them, I have been sleeping so much better since I downloaded the Calm app. Amanda, I know you've been preaching to me about how good Calm is for so long since they became our sponsor and let me tell you. It works. It really does work.
Amanda: It really does. And, whenever I hear other podcasters do ads for Calm and they shout out the train-related sleep stories, I'm like, “That's right. You know what's up.”
Julia: So, Calm is an app that helps you ease stress and get the best sleep of your life. It has a whole library of programs designed for healthy sleep like the soundscapes, and the guided meditations, and the sleep stories like the train one that Amanda loves.
Amanda: All of them.
Julia: And, if you go to calm.com/spirits, you'll get a limited offer of 40 percent off a Calm premium subscription, which includes hundreds of hours of programming. They're always adding new stuff. And over 70 million people around the world use Calm to help take care of their minds and get a better sleep. Again, for listeners of the show, Calm is offering a special limited time promotion of 40 percent off the Calm premium subscription at calm.com/spirits. That's 40 percent off unlimited access to Calm’s entire library and new content is added every week, like I said. Get started today at calm, C-A-L-M.com/spirits. That's calm.com/spirits.
Amanda: And, finally, we are sponsored by BetterHelp. If there is something that is on your mind this time of year or feelings you have about how the holidays may look different or what the New Year might bring, it is really, really helpful to be able to talk that over with a professional therapist. And I get my therapy through BetterHelp. That is a service that lets you start communicating in under 48 hours with a therapist. It's not a crisis line. It's not self-help. It is just truly professional counseling done securely online. I love that their experts have a range of expertise. So, even if you might not locally have a therapist who specializes in whatever it is you're looking for help with, you can find that on BetterHelp. And they also make it really easy to switch counselors if you need to. That is not, not free or easy offline. So, I really appreciate that. And it's even more affordable than traditional offline counseling. And they offer financial aid. But, if you want to get started with our discount code, you can go to BetterHelp. That's betterH-E-L-P.com/spirits to join the over 1 million people who've taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. That is betterhelp.com/spirits for 10 percent off your first month. And, now, let's get back to the show.
Julia: So, besides eating mooncakes, which we'll get into in a little bit, one of the traditional drinks of the Mid-Autumn Moon Festival is Casio wine, which is kind of the sort of mellow apricots or peach-like flavor. It's really nice. I'm not sure how easy it is to find in the United States. But, if you find some, definitely pick it up. It's the perfect pairing for this film. Otherwise, I would suggest something with a similar flavor profile. I picked a nice rosemary sage and peach cocktail for this one, which I very much enjoyed. So, I like the – I like the flavor of peaches. Peaches are great.
Amanda: And I know orange wines are very, like, trendy right now in certain circles. But my local wine shop had a really interesting selection. So, I got one that's almost like a tangerine flavor profile and color, which I thought would be a pretty okay analog.
Julia: Nice. If you have the name of it, let me know I will post it for our patrons.
Amanda: I will.
Julia: So, let's get into some of the other versions of the story that we see mentioned or alluded to in the movie. So, the film starts off with the space dog, which is incredible. But, also, in the final moments of the movie, we see that Fei Fei’s family has adopted a Shar Pei and named him Space Dog, which is extremely cute. I love that.
Amanda: It is extremely cute. Yeah, her – I won't spoil it, but her pet rabbit’s storyline is wonderful. The rabbit doesn't die, guys. Don't worry. But I did cry and cry and cry.
Julia: Fair enough. Yes. So, the movie explains that this giant space dog, which in China is known as the Tiangou, which translates to Heavenly Dog. Somewhat true to what the film says, the creature will attempt to either eat the sun or the moon, which is why we have eclipses. It's less so what the movie says where it's the, the waxing and waning of the moon and more full on eclipse. But the movie says that Chang’e is the one that makes the dogs spit out the moon. Probably not true in the actual mythology, which I will tell you now. So, in some stories, the Tiangou is actually the Hound of Houyi.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: And, in the version of the story where Chang’e takes the elixir for like selfish reasons as mentioned in the movie – like, the one Auntie who's like, “She just wanted to be young forever. That's why she took the pill or both pills” because, in some versions, there's two pills. It's weird. Amanda: Yeah, to be, finally, away from her husband, right? And then she, like, makes eye contact with her husband across the room.
Julia: Yeah. Then she's like – the husband's like, “Well, now she's all alone with just a rabbit.” And she's like, “Lucky her.” Like, damn right, auntie. So, as she floats towards heaven after taking the pill, the “black-eared hound, Tiangou, witnesses her treachery and begins to bark at her.” Chang’e is kind of surprised by the barking and drops what remains of the elixir. And the dog begins to lap up the remaining drops and he too begins to rise into the air after Chang’e and also grows in size to, like, monstrous proportions.
Amanda: Oh, my god. So cute.
Julia: He's Clifford the Big Red Dog but giant space Shar Pei.
Amanda: May I suggest hellhound and space pup?
Julia: Very cute. Space pup, into it. So, Chang’e flees to the moon and attempts to hide there, but the dog swallows the moon and Chang’e whole.
Amanda: Oh, no.
Julia: Not great, right? So, the Jade Emperor and the Celestial Queen Mother see that, “Hey, like, the moon has been swallowed. That's not great.” And they see this giant dog. And the Celestial Queen Mother recognizes the dog as Houyi’s. So, she said soldiers to go capture the dog. And, when she does, the Celestial Queen Mother renames the dog Tiangou, which, before, it was just referred to as the black-eared hound. Now, it's the Heavenly Dog. And she assigns the dog to guard the southern gate of heaven, but only after it spits out the moon and Chang’e.
Amanda: I'm sure many pet owners have been in situation where you just looking at your dog and you're like, “Spit it out. Spit it out. Spit it out.”
Julia: Where you have to, like, kind of pry their jaws open and be like --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: You cannot swallow that. Come on.
Amanda: I know you want to, but you really can't eat the moon.
Julia: Before the origins of this story where it is a part of Chang’e and Houyi’s story, the Tiangou was not exclusively depicted as a dog. In early translations, it was said to resemble a fox with a white head. And it was seen as a much more, like, benevolent form in this way. It is known to ward off evil and is seen as a guardian.
Amanda: A real Alolan ninetales situation.
Julia: Very much so. Yes, but not icy.
Amanda: No, not icy. Just white.
Julia: So, let's next talk about the Jade Rabbit or the Moon Rabbit. The idea of the Moon Rabbit is fairly common of a theme found in a lot of East Asian folklore. And most historians trace the original story to China, where it then spread throughout the rest of East Asia. How the Jade Rabbit ended up being on the moon, again, starts with the Jade Emperor. So, he's doing that thing that a lot of gods do in a bunch of different stories where he's posing as a starving old man and then begs for food from four animals. There's the monkey, the otter, the jackal, and the rabbit. So – I don't – I don’t know why gods like doing this. Why do gods like testing mortals by being like, “I'm an old man. Please feed me.”
Amanda: I think it's the ultimate and kind of, like, power tourism, where somebody with a lot of power, you know, pretends to be somebody who doesn't have it. Not so they can, like, you know, put in a strong social safety net in many cases or, you know, actually fix a problem, but to be like, “Man, this sure is different, isn't it?”
Julia: It's like Undercover Boss but for gods.
Amanda: It really is. Yeah. And, again, you know, Undercover Boss like, “Hey, if you're the CEO and your employees are, you know, full time employed and can't afford basic necessities, maybe don't just buy them a car. Maybe raise your minimum wage --
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: -- by 50 percent and provide health care for all employees. I don't know. That’s just me.
Julia: That'd be great. That'd be great, huh? Anyway, so, the Jade Emperor's pulling this Undercover god shit. So, he asks them like, “Hey, can you get me some food?” So, the monkey goes and gathers fruit from the trees for the old man. The otter gathers fish from the river. The jackal steals a lizard and a pot of milk curds because that's what jackals do, I guess. However, the rabbit knows, “Hey, I really can only gather grass and, like, humans can’t eat grass, huh? That's not good for their diet. That's not gonna sustain this old man.” So, the rabbit does what he feels is the only thing he can do. And he sacrifices his own body --
Amanda: Nooo!
Julia: -- and throws himself upon the fire that the old man had started.
Amanda: No.
Julia: He's like, “This is the only thing this old man can eat, my flesh,” and just jumps. As soon as he does so, the fire does not burn him and the Jade Emperor reveals his true form in very elaborate “It's me, Anastasia” look. To honor the rabbit’s sacrifice, he sends the rabbit to the moon where he becomes the Immortal Jade Rabbit. And he is there when Chang’e flees to the moon becoming her companion. And he's the one that is making the immortal elixir for her all the time. So, the imagery is always of the Jade Rabbit with a mortar and pestle that he's just kind of going to town on.
Amanda: Cool.
Julia: It's very cool. I like that story a lot. So, we also see those winged lions that save Fei Fei and Chin and bring them to Chang’e’s palace.
Amanda: Oh, my god, those are so cute, Julia. I love them so much.
Julia: They were. And they – ho boy, they’re buck wild. But they're known as Pixiu. Though, usually, Pixiu are portrayed as having antlers, which these ones are not. Pixiu are, if they are female, supposed to ward off evil spirits and they'll have two antlers. And the male Pixiu, if they have one antler, are in charge of wealth and are said to go out into the world in order to search for gold and riches and bring them back to their master.
Amanda: Interesting. And there are two – I guess, a statue of two of them in the village that Fei Fei is from. And, so, she, like, pats them on their head as she's walking around as a kid. And I was like, “These are gonna come back in some way. How is it going to be?”
Julia: And they do.
Amanda: And then it's back.
Julia: And it’s very cute. I was reading a very funny and informative Twitter thread about this film in order to prepare for it. If you would like to check it out, I will link to it in the show notes. The author is just like, “Those lions are extremely gay. I don't know what to tell you, but they're very gay lions.” I was like, “Okay. I get it.”
Amanda: Fair enough.
Julia: There's also a buck wild story about how the Pixiu took a shit on the floor of heaven.
Amanda: Oh?
Julia: And the Jade Emperor’s extremely pissed as you would be, you know, when your, your pet takes a shit on the floor.
Amanda: Yeah, it’s also your pet though. Like, it happens.
Julia: Yes, it happens but not when you're the Jade Emperor and it’s heaven.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So, the Jade Emperor spanks them --
Amanda: Noooo!
Julia: -- so hard that it seals up their butt forever.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: And, so, after that, the Jade Emperor declares that they can only eat golden jewels so something like this will never happen again.
Amanda: Okay. Very Emperor story.
Julia: It, it is a powerful energy in that story, for sure. I just – there's not enough story where, like, butt holes are sealed forever. I can’t list too many.
Amanda: I mean I was immediately worried about where the waste would go. So, I'm glad that the myth also addresses that.
Julia: Yeah. And, now, it's like the waste is now in their stomach forever. And I guess they can regurgitate the, the golden silver and jewels at any time.
Amanda: I mean, I guess, they just really made their dog into a piggy bank, which is not, in my mind, ideal. But it is creative. I'll give him that.
Julia: It is, absolutely. So, let's now talk about mooncakes and the Moon Festival because obviously --
Amanda: Hell yeah.
Julia: -- it was very important to the plot here. The festival is supposed to be the one night of the year that the moon is at its roundest, which I like that. Like, we get full moons throughout the entire year, but the idea of, like, the moon at its roundest is very cool and very cute.
Amanda: It's very sweet.
Julia: And this is really interesting because the word used for round in, I believe, Mandarin is also used for the word for reunion.
Amanda: Nice.
Julia: So, if you've never heard of or seen a moon cake before, it is basically a pastry usually pressed in a very ornate pattern. Like, legit, they are beautiful. If you see the film, you'll notice how, how ornate they are. And those are usually filled with a sweet, dense filling made of stuff like red bean paste or lotus seed paste. And, if you see the picture of a cross section of a mooncake, you'll notice a lot of them have this yellow circle sometimes in the middle. And those are usually the yolks from salted duck eggs and are, as you might guess, supposed to represent the moon.
Amanda: It’s so cute.
Julia: It's very cute. I'm told that a lot of the, like, modern generation of Chinese folks and the Chinese diaspora are not a big fan of mooncakes. But I've never had one before. So, I can't tell you. But I saw someone online say that they're the, the fruitcake for Chinese people.
Amanda: I'm sure there are – I mean any – of any kind of family recipe like that, I think it's – it's rare that the way your family makes it is like this is the shit.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And nothing should change. So, I, I definitely understand that. Chef Melissa King, who won the recent season of Top Chef, made a very, very beautiful mooncake and does, like, cooking lessons and stuff.
Julia: Hmm.
Amanda: So, if you're interested in one chef's modern interpretation, check her out. She's @ChefMelissaKing.
Julia: Oh, very cool. I will link it for our patrons. The festival also coincides typically with harvest season. So, it's used as a time for reunion but also to honor hard work and the harvest. And round foods are very popular during the festival, again, because of the idea of, like, completion and togetherness, but, also, like harvest season food. So, like, crabs, as we saw in the movie are in season during this time. And, so, they're a very popular dish to eat.
Amanda: Make sense. Yeah.
Julia: As you mentioned before, I want to talk a little bit about the imagery of the white crane that we saw in the film, which is kind of implied to be the spirit of Fei Fei’s mother, which is very sweet. Cranes are very popular and important in Chinese mythology. Typically, they are symbolically connected with immortality and longevity, which makes sense given the themes of Chang’e’s story.
Amanda: Right.
Julia: There's also like a whole bunch of different, like, interpretations if you see cranes in art. Like, two cranes flying together is supposed to represent the, like, longevity of a marriage. A crane flying towards the sun is supposed to represent, like, climbing the social ladder so to speak. So, cranes, very important in art. You can see there's a bunch of articles online about, like, the breakdown of different art pieces and cranes involved in them. So, definitely, check it out. It's worth talking about. And, kind of like a fun fact to bring us out and bring us into, like, our discussion at the end here, the China Lunar Exploration Program recently sent a robotic spacecraft to the moon to collect samples and return them to Earth for scientific study. And the name of the mission was the Chang’e 5.
Amanda: No way!
Julia: Yes. And it's like just – they just are – it's, like, working on reentry right now.
Amanda: Damn.
Julia: So, it's very cool because it's been gathering stuff on the moon for a while now. And it's gonna be returning to Earth, like, in the next couple of days probably.
Amanda: Oh, my god. I hope someone made a Jade Rabbit pun or named something Jade Rabbit somewhere in there.
Julia: I really hope so. But I think that this is really interesting because it does exemplify what I love most about this film, which is kind of the juxtaposition of modernity and ancient tradition. Like, Fei Fei lives in this very traditional style village, but interacts with like the new Maglev train that is coming into the area. And, rather than portraying this new technology as something that will, like, ruin the area or is going to, like, disrupt her lifestyle, the movie really shows that the new and the old can kind of exist simultaneously and harmoniously. And I think that's a really beautiful aspect of the film that extends to Fei Fei’s home life as well. She can still have those memories of her mother while loving a new family that she has now. And it is – in its essence, the film is about moving on, but still treasuring the memories and traditions of the past. And I think that's a really kind of beautiful segue into our discussion of the film.
Amanda: Absolutely. I wasn't sure at first the time period that the movie was set in. And I realized that that was kind of an assumption that I was bringing to the table, at least, you know, someone who consumes, for the most part, US based media, that there aren't a lot of depictions of kind of contemporary Chinese life, particularly rural Chinese life. And, so, I was sort of assuming that it was set in the somewhat distant past and then I was like, “Damn. Like, that was wrong. Why, why should I assume that?” And to see, you know, a Maglev train, and school, and iPads, you know, and, like, this, this adorable child who's super into physics and math, you know, use her knowledge and hobbies and ambitions to do this, like, very sweet, childlike, and fantastical mission and hope, I thought was a really lovely pairing.
Julia: Yeah, there was a beautiful, beautiful song that, again, made me cry. Most of the songs may be crying this film for the record.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Julia: But there's one where she is, like, talking about, like, scientific – she's just singing about, like, scientific theory and how she's gonna get to the moon. And I'm like, “I don't understand what is happening here, but I love every second of it.” It's very sweet. And you can, like, hear her passion in the song. And it --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: I love it. Also, at one point, she's like, “Hey, Dad, can I buy a couple of these things for a science project?” And then she must have spent so much money kind of – she's able to, like, get a couple of the pieces and stuff like that from, like, the junkyards and salvaging items. But she must have spent so much money on things.
Amanda: I mean she's really, like, an enterprising kid too. Like, she does deliveries and she's been working, you know, with her dad for a long time. So, maybe she had some savings.
Julia: Yeah. And it seems like they're mooncakes are extremely popular. So, they're probably living, like, fairly solid life in terms of money and whatnot.
Amanda: And one thing that I didn't mention in my summary but I thought was really powerful too was, you know, Fei Fei’s whole mission here was, like, if I prove to my dad that Chang’e is real, then he'll know that, like, true love is also real. And he, you know, can't let go of the memory of my mom and, therefore, shouldn't marry anybody new. On the way home, she was so touched that Chin had grabbed a Polaroid that she had taken of her and Chang’e, which for her is like, “Yes, like, I have the proof. I can show my dad and he will know.” And then it burns up on reentry to the Earth's atmosphere. And, so, A, like, obviously, that's crushing. But, B, it prompted me to think about, you know, the ways in which physical items from people that we have lost do hold important memories. But, also, that we don't need those physical reminders for the memory of the person to be real. And they're sort of like, “Does it need to be proved that something mattered to you in order for it to matter to you?”
Julia: Yeah. And, throughout the film, we see first that Fei Fei’s mother has this, like, beautiful silk scarf that has a portrayal of Chang’e on it. And, after she passes away, Fei Fei is wearing it very, very often. And it's kind of used as the, one, as like a motivation for her to go and find that evidence of Chang’e for her father. But, also, it does, like you said, kind of tie her to her mother's, like, past and existence and stuff like that. And, so, I think it is very sweet. But it's not like one of those things where, you know, she lets it float into the breeze as like an acceptance of her mother's death.
Amanda: Oh, my god. I was so scared that was gonna happen. I thought she was gonna give it to the bird to take to the moon. And I was like, “No, you need that.”
Julia: Right. But there is also that imagery of, like, she has this little Chang’e doll that her mother had given her as well, which she thinks is the “gift” that is going to help Chang’e --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -- bring Houyi back. And it ends up being destroyed. And I think that that is kind of that representation of, like, we have to let go of the things that kind of bind us to our loss rather than, you know, honoring the memory of people who are past but also letting them go.
Amanda: Yeah. And, like, there are just – uh, there's so much here. I thought the idea of like a blended family or, you know, a grown child whose parent is marrying somebody new, like, that is also something that is really fucking hard. And it's hard for me, you know, as an adult. I'm sure it's really hard, especially when you're a kid. And, so, seeing that – you know, the, the symbolism of using a moon cake recipe with dates versus not with dates.
Julia: Mhmm.
Amanda: And, you know, Fei Fei, at first, understandably, being very possessive of it, but then later, you know, realizing that it's okay to blend traditions. It's okay to, you know, have certain things that are the way that you've always done them and are meaningful to you, and certain things that take on new meanings. And making space for those new rituals in your life and new, you know, areas of meaning and of symbolism, I think, is really powerful. I also love that, you know, you took us through and that there are – I'm sure for people who grew up with this myth – so many instances of variation. And that's one of the things I love about, you know, studying and learning about other mythologies and stories as we do here that the stories that we find meaningful say so much about us. And looking at the differences in the – like, vast differences, you know, in the sort of, like, emotional reality and consequences of these myths, I think, is really powerful because, like, you need different ones at different times, or different societies finding meaningful for different reasons, or the people who, you know, try to make something canonical might have agendas. And, so, to see that depicted in the film, particularly, was fascinating. There wasn't like one version that was definitely true forever. It was complicated. And I loved seeing that acknowledged.
Julia: That was probably my favorite aspect of the film. It’s this idea that a lot of times, when we're retelling mythology in, in media, like films and TV and stuff like that, we kind of just establish one thing as canon and that's it. And we really don't get the, the full story of what happened with Chang’e, whether she took the pill, you know, accidentally or if she took it to spite Houyi --
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: -- or all of that. And I kind of like that they don't ever establish it because it lends credence to the idea that all of these stories are true to people. And it doesn't matter which story is the right story because all of the stories matter.
Amanda: 100 percent.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I really like the idea of keeping traditions alive while also embracing new traditions. I think that's a very key aspect to this film and the story. And I, I really like the story of Chang’e. I like the different versions. I like what they all represent. And I think that there's something to be learned from each version.
Amanda: Totally. And, if you have a version that is your favorite, conspirators, please let us know. We'd love to read about it.
Julia: Yeah, absolutely. And, remember, listeners, stay creepy.
Amanda: Stay cool.
Theme Music
Amanda: Thanks again to our sponsors. At Calm.com/spirits, you can get 40 percent off a Calm premium subscription. At brooklinen.com, the promo code SPIRITS will get you 10 percent off and free shipping. And, at betterhelp.com/spirits, you can get 10 percent off your first month of counseling.
Outro Music
Amanda: Spirits was created by Amanda McLoughlin, Julia Schifini, and Eric Schneider with music by Kevin MacLeod and visual design by Allyson Wakeman.
Julia: Keep up with all things creepy and cool by following us @SpiritsPodcast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Tumblr. We also have all of our episode transcripts, guest appearances, and merch on our website as well as a form to send us your Urban Legends at spiritspodcast.com.
Amanda: Join our member community on Patreon, patreon.com/spiritspodcast, for all kinds of behind-the-scenes stuff. Just $1 gets you access to audio extras with so much more available too; recipe cards, director’s commentaries, exclusive merch, and real physical gifts.
Julia: We are a founding member of Multitude, a collective of independent audio professionals. If you like Spirits, you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude.productions
Amanda: And, above all else, if you liked what you heard today, please share us with your friends. That is the very best way to help us keep on growing.
Julia: Thank you so much for listening. Till next time.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil