Episode 399: Oceanids, Nereids, & Naiads
/Oceanids, Nereids, and Naiads, oh my! We’re back to talking about nymphs, but this time it’s all about water nymphs - rivers, the sea, the springs and lakes. Grab your towels and let’s dive in!
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of cannibalism, death, murder, blood, castration, warfare, drowning, and sex.
Housekeeping
- Recommendation: This week, Amanda recommends The Dresden Files.
- Books: Check out our previous book recommendations, guests’ books, and more at https://spiritspodcast.com/books
- Call to Action: Join the Multitude Discord!
Sponsors
- Shaker & Spoon is a subscription cocktail service that helps you learn how to make hand-crafted cocktails right at home. Get $20 off your first box at shakerandspoon.com/cool
Find Us Online
- Website & Transcripts: https://spiritspodcast.com
- Patreon: https://patreon.com/spiritspodcast
- Merch: https://spiritspodcast.com/merch
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/spiritspodcast
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/spiritspodcast
- Tumblr: https://spiritspodcast.tumblr.com
- Goodreads: https://goodreads.com/group/show/205387
Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: https://multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And Amanda, I have been really enjoying the water lately. It's summertime, you know? I love going to the beach. If anyone knows me, you know, I'm a beach witch. I also recently went swimming in a lake for the first time in a really long time, and I've come to the conclusion that I just really like being in water in general.
AMANDA: That's definitely you, Julia. Like you— there are lots of arguments for you as a, you know, a fiery person, an earth-related person, an air-related person, but you're a— you're a water bitch, and I love that about you.
JULIA: Yeah. I've really hit all of the— all of the circles when it comes to the bending elements of Avatar: The Last Airbender.
AMANDA: Exactly. And I, too, am going to be swimming in the lake for the first time in many, many years this summer, and I'm— I'm so excited for it. There's just— it's different vibe, and as my— as my toes wiggle in that silty, silty bottom of muddy lakes, I am excited to feel united with the world.
JULIA: When I was in that lake, when I'm in the ocean in general, I feel like I am channeling certain water spirits, Amanda. And so this week, I want to talk about Oceanids, Nereids, and Naiads.
AMANDA: I'm so excited. Eric was just watching Delicious in Dungeon, Dungeon Meshi recently, and he called me into the room in the episode with a Kelpie because he was like, "Oh, babe, sticky horse, your favorite." And so it's the origin of spirits, Julia. It's— yes, Persephone and Hades, but right after that was our episode on Selkies and Kelpies, which remains just like so dear to my heart. So anytime we get to touch on water spirits, I am so fully here for it.
JULIA: Me, too. And I enjoyed talking about the dryads so much that I thought we would kind of keep the ball rolling, keep the spirit of that going. And so it's really easy to kind of be like, oh, yeah, we could just talk about like nymphs. Sure, but there's so many different kinds of nymphs, and I wanted to specifically talk about the ones that fall into the category of water nymphs and water spirits. Now, Amanda, let's— let's start, I think, with Oceanids. Oceanids, it might surprise you, are nymphs not of the ocean.
AMANDA: What? Come on. What?
JULIA: They are nymphs of rivers and they are the daughters of the aptly named Titan Oceanus, as well as the Titan Tethys. Now, Amanda, from your reaction, you're probably like, "Why are they called Oceanids if they're not related to the ocean?"
AMANDA: Well, why are they named after their daddy Oceanus? Like, I don't— I don't understand why that makes any sense.
JULIA: That's a great question. In ancient Greece, Oceanus was the embodiment of not how we understand the ocean today, but rather was described by the ancient Greeks as being a giant river that encircles the world.
AMANDA: Oh. So they thought when they named the oceans oceans that they were simply describing huge rivers, and the current classification of oceans and rivers as separate entities, what— came second?
JULIA: Yes. And it's worth noting that, like, we're also going to talk about a group that is specifically sea nymphs. There is a distinction between Oceanus as this like giant river, versus like the saltwater seas.
AMANDA: It makes a kind of sense, also makes you wish that cartographers and the people in power who named things were a little more creative and didn't always, yeah, exactly, reach to— to ancient Greek for their nomenclature.
JULIA: I really like the idea of these like rivers spirits, right? Because there are so many rivers out there in the world, and we have this couple, we have Oceanus and Tethys, and they were the parents of these 3,000 river gods, which are known as the Potamoi, as well as the 3,000 nymphs, which are our Oceanids. Now, what's interesting is while to us, 3,000 is like a pretty clear number. You're like, "Okay, I know what that is. Maybe I can't, like, conceive of 3,000 people, what that would look like. But you understand that that was like a number, right?
AMANDA: I can kind of squint and— and picture 3,000 people in bleachers or something. It's a big number.
JULIA: It's like that thought game of being like, "Can you imagine what, like, 3,000 ducks on a plane would look like?" You know what I mean? You're like, "Where would all the ducks go? How much would the ducks fill the— the cabin?" Et cetera, et cetera. Is this just a main—
AMANDA: I've never heard of that.
JULIA: Hold on, I've seen this on the internet.
AMANDA: I've never heard of that.
JULIA: Cabin full of otters, I think, maybe the original one was?
AMANDA: What? I believe you, just— this is not a— this is not a, like, 100 chicken-sized dinos versus one dino-sized chicken situation.
JULIA: I don't know. I feel like this is the thing— if— if you are a person on the internet, please tell me if I'm wrong. It might have been a thing from Cabin Pressure, the BBC Radio series—
AMANDA: Oh, sure.
JULIA: —but I don't— maybe. I don't know.
AMANDA: Okay. Okay.
JULIA: Maybe I've conflated that in my head. I don't remember. It's fine.
AMANDA: In any case, 3,000, a big number, but a number one can wrap one's head around.
JULIA: Exactly. But for the ancient Greeks, they would use it as shorthand for innumerable.
AMANDA: Oh, sure, sure, sure. Okay.
JULIA: Because basically, like, there are kind of an unlimited amount of, like, rivers and streams and stuff like that in the world. You probably couldn't count all of the rivers and streams in the world. And as such, there are kind of a unlimited amount of Oceanids in the world according to Greek mythology.
AMANDA: That makes a lot more sense, Julia. Respectfully, then, your otter metaphor, which I completely believe, is from Cabin Pressure. You're probably right about that.
JULIA: Might have been ducks, I don't know.
AMANDA: But it's— it's like saying, you know, as many tears as like grains of sand, you know, in the Sahara, like, it's— it's innumerable.
JULIA: Yes. And ,like, it's not like I could actually, like, sit down and list 3,000 Oceanids in Greek mythology by name, but rather, it's kind of implied that there are more than we could possibly count out in the world.
AMANDA: Makes sense.
JULIA: So, actually, our boy Hesiod describes them as, quote, "dispersed far and wide where they," quote, "serve the earth and the deep waters." But he also only names 41 Oceanids out there, while other poets and scholars from his time kind of expand that list further. There's kind of canonically 41.
AMANDA: It's like I do— or used to do on my resume, where I would say, you know, my skills include Microsoft, Excel, and SharePoint, and then I said, et cetera. But in reality, that was most of the list.
JULIA: Yes. You're like, "Well, there's other stuff, but you're not going to call me on it."
AMANDA: Who can say? Not me. Nope. If you want to know, I'll Google it later.
JULIA: So the Oceanids are somewhat similar to the Dryads that we talked about in the previous episode, because sometimes they're referred to as nymphs, but they aren't necessarily like always associated with rivers or even water, but they are always still the daughters of Oceanus.
AMANDA: So not all of Oceanus' kids are like water girlies?
JULIA: Yes. So they're all his kids, but they aren't always, like, actually associated with water. So for example, one of the Oceanids is Metis, who is the personification of wisdom and was also the first wife of Zeus before he married Hera. And it's worth noting that not only did she help Zeus free the other Olympians from the stomach of Kronos, but she was also the mother of Athena. She was famously swallowed by Zeus because he was told that she would give birth to a son that was stronger than Zeus, which kind of reflects the same prophecy that Uranus heard about Kronos and Kronos heard about Zeus. And it's kind of a pattern, he decided he wants to break the pattern by—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —of course, swallowing his wife.
AMANDA: Yeah, that was the ancient Greek equivalent of going to therapy, I suppose.
JULIA: Except you're still doing the thing where you're swallowing someone, you know?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Or trying to kill someone.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: So by swallowing Metis, Athena is born, escapes through Zeus' forehead fully grown. But she's not— she's an Oceanid but not a water girlie. She is wisdom.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: But for the most part, Oceanids did represent these kinds of personifications of rivers and springs. They are these freshwater nymphs, right? And this gets a little confusing, because later, we're going to start talking about Naiads, who are also nymphs of bodies of freshwater, but we'll— we'll get there when we get to the Naiads. It's a little bit different.
AMANDA: I trust you to take me through gently.
JULIA: So many times, we see Oceanids featured in stories. It's usually as romantic interests of the gods, whether they are wives or lovers or what have you. We'll definitely talk about that as we get into the individual Oceanids, but also kind of important to their stories is the fact that they are responsible for watching over the young, especially young gods and goddesses. So Hesiod kind of describes them as, quote, "a holy company of daughters, who with the Lord Apollo and the rivers have youths in their keeping to this charge, Zeus appointed them."
AMANDA: Getting some sort of older sister vibes, oldest daughter, you know, looking after the younger kids, something that I relate to.
JULIA: Yes. And this is in line kind of with the fact that we often see nymphs as wet nurses and handmaidens and taking care of these child gods. Like, think, for example, of the nymphs that raised baby Zeus while he was hiding out from Kronos.
AMANDA: Very important, Julia, I'm going to take us on a quick side tangent, which is, have you ever thought about the fact that wet nurses are the hitmen of care work? Stay with me here. So you know how you say that, like, wetwork is like the assassinations and like bloody work of the mob.
JULIA: Means there's blood involved. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
AMANDA: Clearly. Therefore, wet nurses are like assassins of the highest order, but re— raising kids.
JULIA: Huh. All right.
AMANDA: All right.
JULIA: So the Oceanids are out there raising a lot of baby gods and goddesses. The Oceanids were also said to have been the companions of Persephone before she was stolen to the Underworld by Hades, and Artemis was said to have 60 Oceanids to make up her personal choir, who also served as her handmaids and took vows to remain virgins, which is kind of sticking with Artemis' whole vibe and aesthetic. V
AMANDA: Very cool.
JULIA: Yeah. I love that for her. She's like, "I demand 60 hot river ladies to come and serve me. Thank you very much."
AMANDA: I mean, it sounds incredible. It's also just giving me— because I'm watching it right now, Love Island USA. The girl power is strong the season.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: All of the women are like very supportive of each other. And like if you like it, I love it, girl. Even when the women are making clearly bad choices. And I— I love this vibe of a bunch of, I don't know, in my mind, like incredibly strong, young midwives or whatever. You know, like have that sort of ilk.
JULIA: Yes. I— I think that you will really find that aesthetic, kind of as a through line for all of the people that we're going to talk about today, all of the spirits we're going to talk about today. But how about we highlight some of the more famous or more impactful Oceanids, shall we?
AMANDA: Let's do it.
JULIA: So we've already mentioned Metis as one of the mothers of the Olympians and the former wife of Zeus. Now, there's also the Oceanid, which is Dione, who was one of the lovers and consorts of Zeus as well. And there are some sources that say that she is the mother of Aphrodite. There's a couple of different—
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: —stories as to the origins of Aphrodite. Probably, the most famous of them is the castration of Uranus, and when his genitals—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —were tossed into the sea, Aphrodite was born of the seafoam.
AMANDA: Classic.
JULIA: However, Dione is in some sources referred to as the mother of Aphrodite and Homer himself, mentions Dione in the Iliad, in which Aphrodite is injured by the mortal Diomedes after she tries to save one of her demigod sons whose name is Aeneas. Now, Dione tends to Aphrodite's wounds and tells her the story of like other gods that got injured by mortals in order to kind of make her feel better.
AMANDA: Sure.
JULIA: Which is real good balm energy. I like that. I appreciate that.
AMANDA: It is. I feel like it could be very embarrassing to be a god and be wounded by a mortal. But for somebody to be like, "Listen, girl, we have all come out of the bathroom with our skirt tucked into our underwear. Like, I know it feels like the end of the world, but like I promise you, we've been there."
JULIA: You're like, "It is embarrassing, yes. We're not going to pretend it's not, but same thing happened to Ares."
AMANDA: Yep. Listen, then that's okay.
JULIA: Another Oceanid that had a child with Zeus was Eurynome, who would give birth to the Charites or the graces by Zeus.
AMANDA: Oh, nice.
JULIA: Yeah. So, like, you're like, "Oh, beautiful, hot ladies. What's not to love about that?"
AMANDA: What's not to love?
JULIA: But Zeus wasn't the only one that was shacking up with Oceanids or fathering children with them, Amanda. The Oceanid Electra married the sea god Thaumas and gave birth to not only the messenger rainbow goddess Iris, but also the Harpies.
AMANDA: Oh. I mean, beautiful in their own terrible way.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Not who you would consider siblings, but I—
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: —kind of am into it.
AMANDA: I'm— yeah, me too.
JULIA: There's also Clymene who married the Titan Iapetus, who gave birth to some other notable Titan such as Prometheus and Atlas.
AMANDA: Oh, sure. Those big guys.
JULIA: Those guys all got punished by Zeus in some way or another.
AMANDA: They did.
JULIA: Always kind of fun.
AMANDA: But you know what, Julia? They're important and— and sometimes— sometimes you just want to see your name in the history books.
JULIA: Sometimes you just want to see your name in the history books. It doesn't matter if your liver—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —is getting eaten by an eagle every single goddamn day.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: How about the centaur, Chiron, Amanda? He was the son of Philyra, who slept with the Titan Kronos in the form of a horse, which is why Chiron is half-man, half-horse.
AMANDA: Classic. And made a weirdly, sexy man beast. That's the—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —only one that I will allow to stay.
JULIA: Uh-hmm. Fair, fair. And then finally, there was Perse who was the mother of the sorceress Circe by way of the sun titan Helios.
AMANDA: Love it. I love that when you cross an oceanid and a sun, what you get is Circe.
JULIA: Yes. And she's a hot bitch, and we love that for her.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: We love that for her. Turning men into pigs, what's not to love?
AMANDA: Circe, if you like it, I love it, girl. That's what I have to say.
JULIA: One of the most important of the Oceanids that we can talk about, Amanda, is the goddess Styx.
AMANDA: Oh, of course. I didn't think about it. But of course, the river leading you/separating the Underworld would be an Oceanid.
JULIA: Usually, we think of Styx as the River Styx, which is that river of the Underworld on which the gods take binding oaths. But the River Styx— and again, as you mentioned, is kind of the boundary of the Underworld that separates the mortal world from the land of the dead. Fun fact, her name means shuddering.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: I like that.
AMANDA: I like that.
JULIA: And she's both the goddess and the river. She is said to be the oldest of the Oceanids, and was the one that sided with Zeus and the Olympians during their war with the Titans.
AMANDA: Fascinating. I love that idea of just like shuddering through a veil or boundary or crossing. That's amazing.
JULIA: I mean, that's also how I would kind of describe the movement of water through a river as well, is kind—
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: —of its movement is sort of shuddering. Especially if it's kind of choppy and stuff like that.
AMANDA: Very poetic.
JULIA: So she sided with Zeus in the war against the Titans. And after their victory, Zeus is basically like, "Listen, if you sided with me and you had a domain beforehand, I'll honor that domain. That's fine. No worries. If you didn't have a domain beforehand, I'll give one to you." And so Styx was one of those goddesses that did not have a domain beforehand. And so what he does is, as a reward for her loyalty, he decreed that the oath the gods made would be sworn on her water.
AMANDA: Fun.
JULIA: So that's why you have a lot of stories that feature the gods swearing by the River Styx.
AMANDA: That's amazing. And a pretty clutched domain, like that's pretty politically powerful.
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, like, even Homer describes it— the swearing on the River Styx as, quote, "The greatest and most dread oath for the blessed gods."
AMANDA: Hmm. Amazing.
JULIA: Big deal. And she— not only is like a big deal, because she is, like, probably the most important river in Greek mythology, but she was also married to the Titan Pallas, who is the titan of Warcraft, and together they had four children that Zeus was like, "Listen, your children will be honored in my halls. They will be like my right hand. I will always have them near me." And so those three children are Zelus which is glory, Kratos which is strength, Bia which is force, and Nike, victory.
AMANDA: Incredible. Those are very warlike children, and for the very first time I understand why in Edgar Allan Poe's The Raven, there is, Julia, quote, "a pallet bust of palace perched above my chamber door."
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: Because it is a, you know, an omen of— of conflict, and that makes sense.
JULIA: Yeah, there you go. There's also— like Pallas is like also specifically, like spring war campaigns, which I think is very funny and very specific.
AMANDA: Is that like— is that like the— the toxically masculine version of like a spring cleaning itch? Where it's like, "I don't know. We're getting out of the long winter. I gotta— I gotta conquer something. The weather's too nice to stay inside."
JULIA: "The weather's nice. We gotta march."
AMANDA: And I'm like, "Babe, we gotta— we gotta dry clean the curtains. Like, come on, we gotta do it."
JULIA: Not quite the same, but I feel it, I get it.
AMANDA: You know, I think we should all be able to touch into our feminine and masculine, and like conquer, you know, the— the weeds, or our enemies, or our goals while still keeping our, you know, kitchen floors, like, cleaned and waxed.
JULIA: We can be Pallas and we can be Styx.
AMANDA: That's right.
JULIA: And then also, importantly, we have to mention Doris, because she is the oceanid that is going to lead us into our next group that we're going to talk about.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: So Doris represented the fertility of the ocean and is the goddess of where mouths of rivers feed into the ocean, and there's kind of like rich fishing there. You know, you're like, "Oh, the fish—"
AMANDA: Yeah, yeah.
JULIA: "—love that entrance where the river meets the sea."
AMANDA: Incredible.
JULIA: So she eventually would go on to marry the god Nereus, who is the, like, literal old man of the sea.
AMANDA: Oh, sure.
JULIA: He is this shapeshifting sea god. He is the eldest son of Pontus, who is the physical personification of the sea and Gaia, the physical personification of the earth. And together with Doris, they were the parents of the Nerites, the sons of the sea and important to our episode, the nereids, who were the nymphs of the sea.
AMANDA: Amazing. I love that we're getting here, and I can't wait to learn about all of these sea girlies.
JULIA: Yes, but before we learn about the sea girlies, Amanda, I think we need to grab our refill.
AMANDA: Let's do it.
[theme]
AMANDA: Hey, everybody, it's Amanda. Welcome to the refill. I am on vacation this week. Julia is holding the fort down, so I'm recording this in advance. And if you've joined the Patreon in the last week, we will thank you next week. I really appreciate everybody who takes time out of their day, their budget, their, you know, limited human capital to support this podcast. We could not do it without you, the only reason that this is our job, and we're able to spend our time, you know, thinking critically about the stories people tell each other and what that means for the rest of us, is because of your financial support on Patreon. Plus, all of you who text a friend about the show, I can't tell you how many times we get wonderful hometown urban legend emails, just wonderful comments from people saying, "My friend convinced me to listen to this show back in, you know, 2019, 2021, last month, so thank you to all the friends. And if you don't have the money to support us on Patreon, we completely understand. What you can do to help us that helps us tremendously and helps me people find the show is convince a friend to listen. Don't just be like, "Hey, this podcast is great." But be like, "Hey, you are going to be obsessed with this podcast, because A, B, C, send them a new episode, send them one of our clips on Instagram, and just say like, "Hey, you are going to like these folks. Check it out." And this is why you are our best and most powerful recommendation engines. So thank you to everybody who has convinced a friend to listen to the show. And if you haven't, or if you want an excuse to talk to, like, a cool person at the library who has a Ouija board pin, or maybe like somebody, you know, at like a dating event, or on an app who has like a tarot card tattoo or T-shirt, be like, "Hey, I like that stuff, too. Listen to Spirits." This week, I would like to recommend reading fiction and fantasy. I've had like a complex relationship with the genre ever really since lockdown, where for some reason— maybe I didn't have the, like, imaginative energy to spend time in other worlds. I know that sounds like silly, but it really is how I felt. And really not until recently have I gotten back into reading fiction that wasn't just like a procedural or a rom-com, which for the most part, I like to read things taking place in very similar worlds to ours. And a series that has really taken me in and reminded me of why I love books and stories is The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. Now, these books aren't perfect. They were published starting in 2000. They definitely have some examples of, you know, language I wouldn't use now or, you know, talking about women in a way that it's like— there— it's not presented as misogyny is good, but it's also like misogyny happens and people, like, have a thought. So just to say, it is not like my absolute endorsement of every single part of these books. But you know what? They are really wonderful stories about a contemporary magician and all of the world and people and friends that he runs into along the way. There are a high number of books, there are like more than, I think, 13. And so if like me, when you find a fictional universe you love, you, like, sink your claws in and don't want to let go, this is a really good one for you. I really like these books. There is a— a great, like, found family narrative that builds up over time. Some really interesting versions of myths than legends that we have covered here on the show, a lot of like mythological origin, you know, people and— and figures. So if you're in the mood for a bunch of books that you can tear through on a road trip, on a vacation, check out The Dresden Files. As usual, there's a link to bookshop.org in the description of this episode or you can just type in spiritspodcast.com/books for these books, any recommendations Julia or I have made, and any books that guests have written. And finally, I would love to remind you about the Multitude Discord. This is a place where— here with the best community in podcasting, you can chat with other people about Spirits, about all the shows Multitude makes, and about things like pets and hobbies and vacation and adulting advice. folks are trading tips about, like, understanding money and investing right now in our advanced adulting channel. And also lots of silly memes. It is truly wonderful and heartwarming. I always check the Discord in the morning because I— I love like warming up and getting to know what the rest of the community has been up to. So it is totally free to join. You can join no matter what. Go to multitude.productions/community just to read our terms and conditions and things, and don't be rude to others, and then join that free Discord. So come on, you should do it. Let's do it. And finally, we are sponsored by Shaker & Spoon, our oldest and I'm gonna say favorite sponsor. Shaker & Spoon, a fellow small business based here in Brooklyn. They send you wonderful craft cocktail recipe boxes with all of the stuff that you need to make craft cocktails based around and curated by world-class mixologists around one bottle of that month's spirit. So whether you sign up for their subscription package or just buy one of their standalone boxes, you are able to understand like, "Wow, what— what can I do with white rum? What can I do with, you know, green Chartreuse, with Scotch whiskey, with Canadian whiskey?" They really help you level up your mixology, and I had found myself putting some of these techniques to use in making coffee drinks or tea drinks or mocktails. It's so fun to learn how to fat-wash, or use garnishes, or different kinds of techniques. They're also just a wonderful team and they've been kind enough to give us a discount code. You can go to shakerandspoon.com/cool to get $20 off your first box of Shaker & Spoon. That is shakerandspoon.com/cool. And now, let's get back to the show.
[theme]
JULIA: Amanda, we are back at it. And for this episode, for this cocktail. I was thinking— before we get into our sea nymphs, our Nereids, I think we should indulge in a little bit of Mermaid Water.
AMANDA: Hmm. It's so beautiful, Julia. And not only that, it tastes really good.
JULIA: Yeah. If you haven't had Mermaid Water before, it is very much like the— not a modern day Tiki drink, but it's definitely like a tropical drink that you probably get anywhere. All you need is spiced rum, coconut rum, Blue Curacao, pineapple, and lime juice. Easy-peasy.
AMANDA: It is like personification of summer flavors.
JULIA: And it's beautiful. We were in the Poconos for a bachelor-bachelorette weekend, and this was featured on many menus in the middle of the Poconos mountains. And I said, why? But here it is.
AMANDA: It's like— it's like the 2024 frose?
JULIA: I guess so. I simply guess so. Man, I like a frose, though.
Frose is so good.
AMANDA: I know. I haven't seen any on menus this summer, and I'm like, "Come on, at least give me like a creamsicle, a frozen orange wine. That'll be good."
JULIA: Ooh. That would be good. That would be interesting.
AMANDA: Froange.
JULIA: Amanda, did you see that Talea— this is not for podcast necessarily, but did you see that Talea, the woman-owned brewery by you now sells wine?
AMANDA: Very exciting stuff. I— a friend works in their other location that is not right near me, and so I need to find an excuse to visit and get that staff discount.
JULIA: And they have orange wine. They made a rose, a white, a red, and an orange wine. I'm so excited.
AMANDA: Delish.
JULIA: So with our Mermaid Waters in hand, let's have the Nereids, the nymphs of the sea. They were often seen in the company of Poseidon since he is the god of the sea, and were often worshipped by sailors and would come to the aids of heroes in Greek mythology. Now, the poets claimed that there were 15 Nereids born to Nereus and Doris. They, like all of the names, are described as beautiful, young women. When we see them, they're usually described with epithets, like lovely and fair-haired and rosy-armed.
AMANDA: Sure. I mean, yeah. Like pink with exertion, sure.
JULIA: But some of the later poets would then go on to describe them as having green or sea-colored hair, which like, same, girl, same.
AMANDA: Hey.
JULIA: Some of them were even said to have the gift of prophecy, which is something that they inherited from their father.
AMANDA: I gotta say, Julia, not— not a parental legacy I particularly want. I— I think a healthy, sort of like modesty and fear of drowning does for me, what the— the sort of like Irish gift for prophecy might be.
JULIA: I will say, I don't think these ladies had to worry about a potential drowning, but I—I understand where you're coming from with that.
AMANDA: I— I'd much rather be pretty scared of wells than— than look into the future. That seems like a responsibility I don't need.
JULIA: Fair enough. Fair enough. I don't know how I would feel if I was given the gift of prophecy. I think I'd enjoy it so long as it wasn't about me.
AMANDA: I think you'd— you do very well in the role of Oracle. Like, you could really work with the sort of like aesthetic and the expectations. But I, ideally, see you, Julia, as somebody who, like, uses the— the fear of witches and the sort of image of the Oracle to, like, keep people away. And in reality, you are like a time traveler who knows about germs or whatever.
JULIA: Ooh.
AMANDA: And that explains your like near mystical powers.
JULIA: I do think about— if I was a time traveler and I got stuck in the past, like what I would do with my knowledge of the future?
AMANDA: Oh, naturally. What else do you do when you can't fall asleep?
JULIA: It's a great question. It's a great question.
AMANDA: Come on.
JULIA: All right. So they have this gift of prophecy, and when they're not hanging out with Poseidon, they are said to be residing in the home of their father, which is a grotto at the bottom of the sea, just like living their best life, singing and dancing and playing in the waves.
AMANDA: Oh, that sounds great.
JULIA: It, like, legit is like living a dream in my mind. I'm kind of super into it.
AMANDA: Julia, is that how you feel now that your folks live in Florida?
JULIA: Hmm. No, because Florida is a hellscape and the bottom of the ocean seems much nicer.
AMANDA: Yeah. Well, you know, maybe we— maybe we can move a little bit east into the bottom of the trench.
JULIA: Maybe, maybe. So they're also often shown in art as riding, like, different sea creatures, like dolphins and hippocampi, which are like literal sea horses.
AMANDA: Amazing.
JULIA: And sometimes they even have like fish tails themselves, kind of like our modern understanding of mermaids.
AMANDA: Adorable.
JULIA: One thing that I love too, Amanda, is in art sometimes, to kind of show that these are Nereids and not just like hot ladies by the ocean, just so you know that they are Nereids, they are just holding a fish.
AMANDA: Oh. That's symbolism, baby.
JULIA: It is like, "Oh, there's a lady. I wonder what her— oh, she's got a fish? Must be a Nereid."
AMANDA: That's right. I remember, I remember from school. That's right, that's right, that's right.
JULIA: That's how you identify ladies. You're like, is she holding a fish?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: She's not a Nereid.
AMANDA: No. You're like, "That baby is Christ on account of the disc behind its head and that lady must be a Nereid, what— with a fish."
JULIA: Oh, I just love it so much. So next time, you need someone to know what your occupation is just hold the fish.
AMANDA: That'd be great. Well, I guess he would hold a microphone.
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: It could be worse.
JULIA: So worship of the Nereids was extremely popular in ancient Greece, especially among sailors who would kind of pray for them to ensure safe voyages and to avoid, like, storms on the sea, et cetera, et cetera. They had a dedicated Oracle on the island of Delos—
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: —since they had that kind of prophetic ability that was connected to them. And their worship extended beyond the Greek islands, actually. The Persians, Amanda, according to historian Herodotus, historically made a sacrifice to the Nereids after a brutal storm almost decimated their entire fleet while they were attempting to invade Greece.
AMANDA: That's amazing and— and so powerful. I mean, you think about all of the things that are just far bigger than humankind can control and, like, the ocean is right up there. Like, I would totally guessed that for Family Feud of, like, unstoppable forces. Humanity needs to play Kate right alongside like, I don't know, death and crops.
JULIA: Yeah. I mean, to the point, Amanda, where even Alexander the Great, Alexander the Great, Amanda, was reported to have sacrificed to the Nereids when he would set sail across the Mediterranean to go do his conquering.
AMANDA: Not famously a— a fearful guy, but that's— strikes me as like a very reasonable point of preparation.
JULIA: It's not always about fear. Sometimes it's just about respect and preparation, like you said.
AMANDA: I really liked the image too, like you mentioned sailors will kind of like venerate sacrifice to them, worship them. I like the idea of a sailor just being like, "Oh, yeah. Man, like, I gotta— you know, I just gotta pray on it. Like, I gotta, you know, just get my mind right, like meditate. Like, make sure it's right." And then he's in his, you know, hammock sort of picturing, like, an incredibly sexy ocean nymph. That sounds—
JULIA: Holding a fish.
AMANDA: Right. That sounds like a great— a great sort of, I don't know, image to have in your mind as you, you know, devoutly and, like, selflessly sort of ponder and, like, pray for success.
JULIA: I agree. I agree. I think that's what more prayers should be, personally.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Yeah. So let's touch on some of the more important Nereids because I think it'll actually kind of reflect that the Nereids have a much more active role in mythology than, for example, the Oceanids do. So we'll start with Amphitrite, who is the wife of Poseidon and Queen of the sea. Amphitrite was at first really not interested in Poseidon, and when he tried to romantically pursue her, she was like, "I know how this goes, I'm gonna hide deep in the depths of the sea," where she basically was like, "Maybe he won't find me here."
AMANDA: Okay, interesting.
JULIA: So Poseidon, however, in kind of a less fuckboy way than he usually does, took a more diplomatic route to win her over. He sends a bunch of sea creatures out into the ocean to search for her. And eventually, she is found by a dolphin, and the dolphin is playing matchmaker.
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: The dolphin pleads Poseidon's case to her. The dolphin is very persuasive. And Amphitrite is so moved by this that she actually agrees to the marriage.
AMANDA: Wow. What was the dolphin's name? Do we know?
JULIA: We don't know. It was just a dolphin.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The dolphin— his— his name lost to the times, lost to history.
AMANDA: I guess it's like having your cute dog, you know, at the dog park, like play sort of like matchmaker, like make an introduction, or, you know, get the cutie over there to notice you.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: But damn, dolphin, I— I wish we knew your name, bud.
JULIA: It's a shame. Let's come up with one so that we can honor his memory.
AMANDA: Oh. It's gonna be Bertram.
JULIA: Bertram. Okay. Bertram, the dolphin. He's the one that we have to thank for the marriage of Poseidon and Amphitrite.
AMANDA: And I feel like spiritually inspired all those orcas that keep killing the superyachts.
JULIA: Probably, probably.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Did you know it's just teens, Amanda? Just orca teens that are like, "I'm gonna get into some mischief."
AMANDA: I love it, and I thank them for their service.
JULIA: Well, me too. Me, too. So together, these two had several children, most notably the merman Triton.
AMANDA: Oh, sure.
JULIA: The nymph Rhode, which is what the island of Rhodes is named after.
AMANDA: Big deal.
JULIA: And my personal favorite, which is Benthesikyme, who is the embodiment of the depths of the sea.
AMANDA: Oh, shit.
JULIA: Which I love as a domain.
AMANDA: Ooh, I'm picturing her hair like inky blue black. You know what I mean?
JULIA: Uh-hmm. I think she looks like— you know when you're like in water, and you look up, and you can see the sun kind of permeating into the depths?
AMANDA: Yes.
JULIA: That's what her whole vibe is.
AMANDA: Amazing.
JULIA: Next up is Galatea, a Nereid who was loved by the Cyclops that came face-to-face with Odysseus during the Odyssey, Polyphemus. Now, Polyphemus was in love with Galatea. Galatea was in love with a young demigod named Acis. You know, it's not going to be good for anyone when people are in love but love other people.
AMANDA: Love Triangle. You got three people, five eyes, and I think three big sets of grudges involved.
JULIA: It's not going to be good. It's not going to be good.
AMANDA: Uh-uh.
JULIA: So one day, Polyphemus came across the two lovers embracing and furious, hurled a giant boulder at them.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, while Galatea managed to escape, Acis was killed, and Galatea decides to transform her lover into a river on the island of Sicily, where he was killed, which feeds into the sea so that they could be together for the end of their days.
AMANDA: Very poetic, Julia. Is this river notable in Sicilian heritage and— and lore?
JULIA: It simply must be because otherwise, there wouldn't be a story about it.
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: Yeah. That's usually how it works. You're like, "Wow, that must be a pretty important river because it's got a name and a myth behind it.
AMANDA: I— I don't know if it was like, "Oh, the— you know, the— the river in the— in the football that fuels our, you know, hatred of mainland Italy or whatever." Or like, "Oh, you know, like true Sicilian olives, like they have to touch, you know, the river or else they— they are simply brined, you know, fruit."
JULIA: Yeah. I— I don't know. I mean, like—
AMANDA: Sicilians, sound off.
JULIA: Sicilians, let us know, because I think it might be important—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —but who can say really?
AMANDA: I'll keep imagining, you know, in my mind that like all true San Marzano tomatoes need to be, you know, fed by the groundwater of the same river.
JULIA: So the Sicilian River, which is named after him, is on the eastern coast of the island and it is immediately at the foot of Mount Etna, which is extremely important and also active volcano in Sicily.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: And then the final Nereid that we'll touch upon, Amanda, is the mother of one of the most important heroes in all of Greek mythology. And that is Thetis, who is the mother of Achilles.
AMANDA: Hey, that's very important.
JULIA: It is. For Greek mythology, extremely important.
AMANDA: This is like the equivalent of the mom of, like, the quarterback who won the, you know, state final in, like, Friday Night Lights football.
JULIA: Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen a single episode of Friday Night Lights, but I trust you.
AMANDA: More the idea of like a state where sports are important.
JULIA: Ah.
AMANDA: Like— Julia, sorry, I'll translate this into Long Island for us. The— the mom of the guy who won the big lax match and then got a, you know, scholarship to, like, Marist.
JULIA: Sure, sure.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Damn, called out on Marist.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So Thetis is perhaps one of the most famous of her sisters and was considered the most beautiful among the Nereids. She was pursued by both Poseidon and Zeus, but refused their advances. Now, there's two reasons given in traditional sources as to why she turned them down. First one is she didn't want to offend the wives of either of the gods, one being Hera, of course, which you don't offend Hera—
AMANDA: No, no.
JULIA: —by— by all means.
AMANDA: I was gonna say she's being a girl's girl and, like, maybe she is, but also simply just preserving her life by not offending Hera.
JULIA: Of course. And then the other person that she would be offending by going with one of these gods is her own sister, which is Amphitrite.
AMANDA: Classic. Good call.
JULIA: Gotta— you gotta be a good sister. You can't fuck your sister's husband.
AMANDA: No. No, you really shouldn't. You really can't.
JULIA: And so the other reason given is she, too, was given a prophecy that her son would be more powerful than his father. And knowing what we know about Greek mythology, that is never a good thing. We saw what happened—
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: —when Zeus thought his wife would bear a son that was more powerful than him. He swallowed her. Not great.
AMANDA: Yep. Bad.
JULIA: So instead, Thetis married the mortal hero Peleus after he was able to hold on to her as she shapeshifted into a bunch of various different animals.
AMANDA: Aw, that's kind of romantic.
JULIA: Kind of cute. Kind of interesting. You know, she was like—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: "—No, you can't hold on to me. I'm an eel now." And, "Oh, I'm a lion now." And, like, "Oh—"
AMANDA: Aw.
JULIA: And then he still hung on and they got married.
AMANDA: Aw, that's kind of cute.
JULIA: And their marriage was a magnificent event. It was attended by mortals and gods alike, and their union gave birth to the warrior, Achilles.
AMANDA: Hell yeah.
JULIA: Now, because of a prophecy that said that Achilles would be killed in battle, Thetis attempted to make the baby Achilles immortal by dipping him into the river Styx.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: However, because of how she held him, only one part of his body was left vulnerable, which was his left heel, his Achilles heel, if you would.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: And most fans of mythology probably know how that ends for him.
AMANDA: I was thinking about this story, Julia, when I was dipped in the ritual mikvah to become Jewish, where the lady had me like— the mikvah lady had me like curl up into a fetal position and then jump in the water. I'm fully naked, she's fully clothed, of course, and— so that the bottoms of your feet are also, you know, fully submerged and— and touching water, because you can't sit on your butt, but you can also squat on your heels, because then— then it's part of you doesn't touch.
JULIA: Yeah, Judaism knows not to fall into the trap that Greek mythology did.
AMANDA: Yep. I can tell you we also don't have prophecies about sons and fathers in power because that doesn't end well.
JULIA: No, never does, never does.
AMANDA: No. Uh-uh.
JULIA: So Thetis was really kind of a doting mother for Achilles throughout his life when he fought—
AMANDA: Oh, Achilles has such mama's boy energy. Come on.
JULIA: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So when he fought in the Trojan War, she advocated for him to Zeus. Like, Zeus was like, "What's up with this dude?" And she's like, "It's fine. He's okay."
AMANDA: "Trust me."
JULIA: "Don't worry about it. I know he's actively doing war crimes, but it's not his fault."
AMANDA: Uh-uh.
JULIA: And then she was also the one that brought him armor that was— like golden armor that was forged by Hephaestus himself.
AMANDA: Huge.
JULIA: She's out there doing great gifts.
AMANDA: Seriously, I— I love a Hephaestus-forged anything, frankly.
JULIA: Yeah. True, true. So she has a few other stories that kind of predate her wedding and the birth of Achilles. She was said to have helped Zeus fight off the other Olympians when they attempted to overthrow him at one point.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: And she was also one of the nymphs that was said to have cared for Hephaestus when he was tossed from Olympus by his mother Hera at his birth.
AMANDA: Oh, good.
JULIA: Which is probably why she was able to get him that sweet, sweet armor.
AMANDA: He's like, "Yes, foster mom, I will absolutely get you armor for your spoiled son."
JULIA: Now, finally, Amanda, let's take a look at the Naiads, kind of heading back into our freshwater nymphs section. Their name, unlike the Oceanids and the Nereids, doesn't come from the name of their father, but rather from the Greek word meaning to flow, which is apt.
AMANDA: Oh. Sure.
JULIA: Now, they are linked two bodies of waters like lakes and fountains and springs, and they were often much, like the Dryads, said to live in the bodies of water that they represented.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Because of their connection to important, kind of life-giving bodies of water, because like, obviously, as society as human beings, we need fresh water to survive.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: They were inherently tied to life, like the creation of life and also the nurturing of life.
AMANDA: Totally.
JULIA: Now, it was said that if someone, either a god or a mortal alike, would drink from the waters a Naiad inhabited, they would be, quote, "inspired by the nymphs."
AMANDA: Hmm.
JULIA: Now, what that means kind of depends on the story or the poet. Sometimes it gave prophetic visions, sometimes it gave incredible musical ability. Sometimes it would heal the sick. There was all different options.
AMANDA: That's amazing, because artistic talent, you know— or you know, things that are basically miracles feel like they are dropped in from the heavens. And so it makes total sense that someone could, you know, go away, and then create a— a masterwork and you're just like, how did that happen?
JULIA: I mean, also think about how many times, like, writers or artists and stuff will go out and, like, be like, "Yeah, I spent six months in a cabin in the woods with no contact with other people and I wrote three novels." And you're like, "What the fuck? What the fuck, dude?"
AMANDA: My husband does it all the time. He'll go for a walk or to buy us groceries, and then come back, and be like, "Yeah, so I thought of like a brand-new RPG." And then like 30 minutes later, he's written 10 pages. I'm like, "What— how— what?"
JULIA: You have to grab him by the shoulders and say, "What magic— what magic river or lake or spring did you drink from, sir?"
AMANDA: "Babe, are you drinking from Newtown Creek again? Because that is still a Superfund site. It is really not safe. We got to talk about this."
JULIA: It's really not safe. Really not safe and a Naiad is definitely not living in it.
AMANDA: No, it's just off the dome.
JULIA: So much like the Nereids, the Naiads often acted as nurses for young or newly born gods. For example, some of Zeus' wet nurses were considered Naiads, such as Amalthea. And the nymphs that cared for the newborn Dionysus were also Naiads. They were the daughters of the river god Lammas. Now, their care for the young is kind of reflected in mortals in a coming of age ceremony that the ancient Greeks would do, where a lock of a child's hair was dedicated to the Naiad of the local spring.
AMANDA: Oh, it's so cute.
JULIA: Isn't that kind of nice?
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: I love a good coming of age ceremony, and I think that's a really nice one.
AMANDA: Oh, yeah. Like, naming 100 days, like whatever, you know, your version is, it's— it's amazing.
JULIA: So there are— a few were named or kind of fewer important Naiads than there are Oceanids and Nereids. For the most part, they kind of acted as a sort of, like, genealogical function within mythology.
AMANDA: Okay. Yeah. Like, tracing the relation and sort of source of power?
JULIA: Yes, exactly. So, like, for example, it would give, like, heroes or royalty a tie to the divine if they had a Naiad mother, or a Naiad grandmother, or a Naiad great, great, great grandmother, you know?
AMANDA: And I think just spiritually, anyone who, you know, identifies as a bit of a water which, you know, I think there's a Naiad in our— our sort of family tree.
JULIA: I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised. Now, where the Nereids were kind of prayed to for their benevolence, right?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: The Naiads could sometimes be aggressive, and they weren't always kind to mortals. So for example, the Argonauts, who were on the journey for the Golden Fleece, at one point, they stopped on an island to kind of resupply. And one of the young men who was a youth named Hylas who was there mainly to fuck Heracles?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: He was sent out to fetch water for the ship, but was seen by a bunch of Naiads in the local spring and they're like, "Oh, my God, you're so beautiful." Grabbed, and then they captured him, and dragged him into the depths of the spring. He drowned, they never saw him again. Heracles got real mad about that.
AMANDA: Why is my head casting this as like a modern Greek life, you know, story? Where, you know, someone is sent as an emissary to, like, the local, you know, sorority or frat house, and then, like, is never seen again, because they're like, "Well, we've adopted them. Sorry, goodbye."
JULIA: "They were too cute. Sorry, they're ours now. Woops."
AMANDA: "Too cute. They're ours now. They're going to run the— the bake sale in the spring."
JULIA: Yes, and definitely didn't drown.
AMANDA: Uh-uh. Not— not one. Not one. The carwash, even better.
JULIA: Now, Amanda, those are the— the Oceanids, the Nereids, and the Naiads. Oh, my. And— and much like the Dryads, the kind of personification of bodies of water is not unique in global mythology. We've got mermaids, we've got huldras, we got Selkies and Kelpies. We got nixies, and those are just a few to kind of get you started in researching other water spirits in similar veins. But I hope you do look into more water spirits across the world, because I know I love them. I love them more than anything. They're my favorites.
AMANDA: I love them too, Julia. Thank you so much for this overview. And listeners, we'd love to hear about your local water spirits. What did you grow up fearing? What did you grow up appeasing? And, you know, what did your— your teachers teach you about going to close to a body of water?
JULIA: And Amanda, the next time that you're dancing in an underwater grotto, just having a great time, holding a fish—
AMANDA: Clearly, always holding a fish.
JULIA: —stay creepy.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
[theme]