Episode 154: Jacheongbi
/This story seems like we lifted it straight out of a fanfiction or a long-running anime, but the story of Jacheongbi is so incredible, it had to be replicated. Friends to lovers, trials and tribulations to win back your love, but a shocking amount of good communication?? All this and more!
This week, Amanda recommends Gods of Jade and Shadow by Silvia Moreno-Garcia and the podcast, Witch N Bitch.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about childbirth, fertility issues, colorism, rape, cross-dressing, murder, resurrection, starvation, menustration, and sexism.
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Transcript
Amanda: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends, and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
Julia: And I'm Julia.
Amanda: And this is episode 154: Jacheongbi.
Julia: Yeah, I'm actually really excited. This feels to me like when we were first doing Spirits, the kind of badass individual goddess who we haven't talked about in a while. It's like a full story. Most of the episode is just storytelling. It's been a minute since we've done something like this, and I'm very, very happy with how it turned out.
Amanda: Me too. It was so much fun to learn about. I can't wait to re-listen to the episode as it comes out with our listeners. But moreover, Julia, we have to welcome some new patrons to the family.
Julia: Yes. Welcome to our newest patrons, Paul, Lucy, and Jenny.
Amanda: You join the ranks of our Supporting Producer level patrons, Phillip, Hanna, Alpha Dogs, Debra, Molly, Megan, Skyla, Samantha, Sammy, Josie, Neil, Jessica, and Phil Fresh. And our Legend Level patrons, Morgan, Emily, James, BM Me Up Scotty, Audra, Chris, Mark, Ayla, Cody, Mr. Folk, Sarah, and Jack Marie.
Julia: I would watch a romcom anime with any of these people, and that will be pressing later in the episode.
Amanda: Hell yeah. Speaking of pressing, Julia, I have been thinking about this drink you made us for several weeks now. Would you please let the good people know about it?
Julia: Yeah. I'll tell you more about it in the actual episode, but we made buckwheat whiskey sours. But if you're looking for a good buckwheat whiskey, which I know is not the traditional whiskey style. But I recommend getting the one from Catskill Distilling Company if you live in the United States. That's probably the best bottle that you can get out here.
Amanda: That reminds me of this month's Shaker and Spoon box, which we sent ahead to our Legend Level patrons. It was about Canadian rye, which I've never had before, and it was a very cool taste. As a rye whiskey person, I had not had that variety before and it was absolutely dope.
Julia: I like mixing things up. Regular whiskeys, regular ryes, they're interesting, but I want something new and exciting every once in a while.
Amanda: Totally. Speaking of which, Julia, I have a book recommendation this week that I think you would absolutely eat up.
Julia: Ooh, tell me about it.
Amanda: This is Gods of Jade and Shadow by Silvia Moreno-Garcia. It is a book basically about a young woman who makes a pact with the god of death, and there is nothing more that Julia loves than something like that. It definitely has some traditional fairytale vibes, but with a folklore history and cosmology that is new to me. It is beautifully written. The perspective is absolutely gorgeous. The book art is beautiful. It's the kind of book that I would display on a shelf facing outward because I love it so much. So that's Gods of Jade and Shadow, Silvia Moreno-Garcia.
Julia: That sounds incredible. I really, really like that.
Amanda: Oh, and I also wanted to let you know that ... Remember Elena Varg from our episode on Kalevala, which is up there with the crowd favorites?
Julia: Mm-hmm (affirmative), absolutely.
Amanda: Yeah, they had told a story in the episode that they were starting a podcast in English in the future, and it's now live, so we wanted to tell you that Witch and Bitch is now live. And you can listen to it if you liked Elena's perspective and all of the things they had to share about Finnish folklore.
Julia: Yeah. I mean, just from the name alone you know it's going to be right up our listeners' alley.
Amanda: Totally. That's Witch and Bitch, and we are putting it in the episode description as well so you can just click through. And finally, we wanted to remind you as it gets very cold and snowy here in New York that our new merch is available for order. We made a beanie winter hat for Spirits with the logo on the front, but there are also... There's Violently Purple shirts from Potterless, there is a new horse shirt that just says, "Sup nerds? It's basketball," which is such a wonderful conversation starter.
It's also a varsity shirt, which I love. It's like a very bi shirt, because instead of rolling up your sleeves, you can have those little stripes on your sleeves. It's great. And wonderful pins for Join the Party. I can't wait to buy four sets and put them on every coat I own so I never have to be without my rainbow Inara skater teen and my Chad, and Tracey holding a Bombelade. Oh my gosh, it's so good.
Julia: I love it. They're absolutely adorable. All of the swag that we've added recently is just incredibly cool. I love that people have the opportunity to wear them in the real world now.
Amanda: Yeah, no, me too. And we're also selling remainders from our tour posters from this year, so there's a limited amount. We're not going to print any more, we're just selling them for cheap so that everybody who couldn't make it to the show has a chance to bring a little piece of the show home with them. So all of that and more at multitude.productions/merch.
Julia: Yeah. If you haven't seen our Portland poster, it's one of my favorite things that Multitude has made.
Amanda: Yeah, we framed it in the office because it's so beautiful.
Julia: It's very, very cool.
Amanda: Wonderful. Well, I don't want to keep you any further, listeners, from this wonderful episode. So now enjoy, Spirits Podcast episode 154: Jacheongbi.
Julia: So Amanda, today's episode was actually suggested by a listener.
Amanda: Ooh.
Julia: We usually don't do listener suggestions, but I really, really liked this one. So this comes from Ashley, who is extremely cool. She is Korean-Canadian. She's a TV and games writer.
Amanda: What?
Julia: And she sent this really, really robust description of this story that I'm going to be telling you. And, most of the research from this episode is kind of a combination between what she sent me and then the stuff that I pulled out myself from just researching and stuff. We're going to be telling the story of Jacheongbi, who is a Korean agriculture goddess with a pretty familiar but not too familiar story.
Amanda: I love it. I'm so excited.
Julia: But first, let's talk about what we're drinking this episode. So originally I was going to make a Soju martini because Soju, as you know Amanda, is a Korean liquor that's kind of similar to Sake in that it's distilled from rice. But it's a lot more pungent, so it's pretty much similar to a vodka in terms of alcohol content.
Amanda: Very good in cocktails.
Julia: Yes. A lot of the bars in New York City actually use Soju in cocktails if they don't have a full liquor license because it falls under the beer and wine category for whatever reason.
Amanda: It's wonderful. I always do the calculation in my head like, "How many of these do I need to get to where I want to be and is that cheaper than just buying a lot of beer?"
Julia: Yes. And you're like, "Yes, this is probably good."
Amanda: At minimum, it requires fewer bathroom trips, which is generally what I go for.
Julia: That is always a good plus.
Amanda: True.
Julia: However Amanda, I stumbled across instead something at the liquor store that ended up being much more relevant to our story, and you'll see why at the very end of the story why I picked this.
Amanda: Ooh, what a cliffhanger.
Julia: But what sits in front of you might seem like an ordinary whiskey sour, but is in fact made with buckwheat whiskey.
Amanda: Oh.
Julia: Wheat whiskey.
Amanda: I don't know what this is. I feel like such a bad whiskey liker.
Julia: I know. It's a very rare thing. There's very few places in the United States that actually distill it, but I really, really like it. And I am not a whiskey drinker, Amanda, but this one has kind of a... I don't know, like more of an earthy sweetness that most whiskeys don't do for me.
Amanda: Yeah, I see how it's like the very funky gins that you enjoy in that way.
Julia: Yes, that is true. So please sip that, enjoy that.
Amanda: I sure will.
Julia: And then you're going to take a listen of the story of Jacheongbi because it is a doozy and you're going to want all of that alcohol.
Amanda: I am sitting back in my chair, I have my drink in my hand with the rubber ice cubes that we invested in so that you don't hear my ice clinking, and I'm just hear for it.
Julia: So good. So most of the story of Jacheongbi, as Ashley points out in her email, the story has a lot of similarities to the Butterfly Lovers story that Linda told us a while back. Which I remember you loved that episode.
Amanda: I sure did, Julia. It ended with a dramatic scene at a grave and I am here for that.
Julia: Yes. Before I get into the whole concept of the Butterfly Lovers and the similarities between the two, I want to tell some of the other stories. Basically, all of the lead up to the Butterfly Lovers part of the story. So the first is the story of Jacheongbi's birth, as told by as told by one O Troy in the illustrated guide in Korean mythology. It's available on Google y'all, go read it, it's really good.
Amanda: Very good.
Julia: I just found it and I was like, "Oh, they probably only going have like a couple of pages that are [crosstalk 00:07:49] between. The whole book is available.
Amanda: I love it so much, it's scholarship.
Julia: [crosstalk 00:07:53]. So the story begins that there was once a rich couple that had lots of land and servants, but by the time they were in their late fifties they still had no child. After seeing a poor man during a walk who was delighted as he played with his child, the man of the couple fell into a depression. He asks, "What is the use of money? What is the use of land? How deplorable it is to live as the richest, but childless," which, priorities.
Amanda: I get it, yeah.
Julia: Well, some people want children, but that's not for everyone.
Amanda: And money cannot buy you that form of happiness if it's what you're there for.
Julia: Yes. But he genuinely wanted a child and express that to his wife that it would make them happier. So they were soon visited by a monk who told them that if they made an offering of a thousand pounds of white rice and prayed for a hundred days, they would have a child.
Amanda: Okay, okay.
Julia: There's also this whole thing where if the rice isn't exactly £1,000, they would have a girl. But if it was exactly a thousand pounds, they would have a boy. "Accuracy, and you're rewarded with a boy, anything less, only a girl, the two genders." Either way, they ended up having a girl. I don't remember if it's like, because they're cheap or they just didn't measure properly or what have you, but they end up having a girl.
Amanda: Okay.
Julia: Who according to the story, she took 10 months to be born, and when really-
Amanda: [crosstalk 00:09:12].
Julia: ...cooking in their, and was final like stew.
Amanda: I get it, yeah.
Julia: And it turns out pretty well, because when she's born, she 'Looked as if she had the sun on her forehead, a moon on the back of her head and stars on her shoulders.'
Amanda: Oh, as in like beautiful lighting, or... ?
Julia: I don't know. I'm not entirely sure, it wasn't very specific. I like to just think of it as like she was gorgeous.
Amanda: Glowy. Yeah.
Julia: She was gorgeous.
Amanda: Glowy baby.
Julia: Exactly. You wouldn't be freaked out if a baby came out of you and it glowed.
Amanda: I mean, I'd probably just assume it was the infant Jesus, but that's me.
Julia: That's fair. So they ended up naming her as Jacheongbi, which means, ones for oneself because she was 'born voluntarily.'
Amanda: Okay, okay.
Julia: Mm-hmm (affirmative)- you like it, I'm into it. So as she grew older she came across a young god named Mun, who was the son of the emperor of heaven. And who he had come down to earth to learn from master Gomu. So Jacheongbi offered him some water at a nearby river, that's where they met, like at this riverside.
Amanda: Cute.
Julia: She was like, "I want to go wash my feet." There's a whole thing, then he was like, "I want my hands to be whiter," and they're like, "Go wash in this river." And I was like, "I don't know about that." Okay.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: Clearly human colourism and fixation on lighter skin has had roots for a long time.
Amanda: Yes.
Julia: So when he told her that he was planning to train with master Gomu, Jacheongbi lied to him, telling him that she had a younger brother who looked exactly like her and that her brother was also interested in learning from master Gomu as well.
Amanda: Yeah, some move on shit.
Julia: Yeah, that's some pretty accurate move on shit. She asked if Mun would like to meet her brother, and if he met her brother would he accompany him to master Gomu so that they could both learn.
Amanda: Sure.
Julia: So Mun agrees. Then Jacheongbi returns home, she tells her parents she's going off to study, saying her father needed her to be taught so that she may help him in the future because he has no male sons, so she needs to learn. There's a whole thing about like, she's like, "Well, you know when you die, someone needs to write a thing for your funeral." He's like, "Good point, go learn things."
Amanda: It's also very true, you need to talk to your family about end of life care please. Estate planning is really important. It really is truly. So he agrees to let her go study.
Julia: I love this so much, she's like, "Father, if not for my own accord, surely you want a great oratory at your funeral. Yeah, that's very important. So Jacheongbi changes into men's clothes and goes to meet with Mun. This is where things very much start ending up like the Butterfly Lovers, because we get a beautiful cross dressing story in any sort of mythology, we love that.
Amanda: We do.
Julia: Big fans of that. So, they go together to learn from master Gomu and they spend two years living together. Sharing a room and all that.
Amanda: Dang. This lasted much longer than Amanda Bynes did, and she's the man.
Julia: Yes. I was thinking about that the entire time.
Amanda: It's hardly one semester, Julia.
Julia: Yeah, I know, and she barely made it through. So they then proceed to have this beautiful like slow burn fanfic trope where she falls hopelessly in love with him. It's implied that Mun is aware that she 'has a woman's body.' Okay. Ashley adds here to say that there are some versions of the story where there's this unresolved tension for like two years, and he finally gets confirmation that she loved him because she calls him an idiot, which is a very animated, cute sort of thing-
Amanda: A hundred percent.
Julia: ... according to Ashley. Love that and this is just everything, my heart is exploding. I love this so much.
Amanda: We have a slow burn and we have friends to lovers, we have cross-dressing. We have, like scholarship and independence.
Julia: I am such trash for those.
Amanda: I love it so much, Julia.
Julia: It's very Oren high school host club in a lot of ways, and that's why I think I like it because I was a very formative to just like me and also my life.
Amanda: Yeah. Ashley, you know as well. Good choice.
Julia: Here's how that whole thing goes down where she calls him an idiot and then he realizes that-
Amanda: They kiss.
Julia: One day Mun gets a letter saying that he has to stop studying and return home to the garden of heaven because his father has requested that he marries the daughter of another king. Stop studying, also come get married.
Amanda: I have Malaney voice now that you said it in that way.
Julia: I'm sorry.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So, Jacheongbi pretty hopelessly in love with him at this point is like, "Okay, well I guess I'm done here too. I'm going to leave my studies for a boy."
Amanda: Yeah. Sure.
Julia: So they decide to leave together. However, Jacheongbi is worried about what her parents will think if she returns home with a boy, even if that boy is the son of the emperor of heaven. So she is like, "Hey, we're close to my house. We're also like super dirty from traveling, so why don't we just go make sure we have a bath before we get to my family's house." So Mun agrees, they go to bathe in a stream. Jacheongbi is in the upper stream, and then Mun in the lower stream. So it's like on a cliff side and the stream is going down. So she waits until Mun is completely naked, and then on Willow leaf writes a message to him and floats it down the streams.
Amanda: Stop.
Julia: And the Willow leaf says something to the effect of like, "Hey idiot, you lived with me for three years. You shared a bed with me, you didn't realize I was the same girl you met at this same river?"
Amanda: Oh shit, it's so circular.
Julia: And then she flees.
Amanda: Oh, I mean it's so relatable.
Julia: So before he has a chance to respond, she goes running back to her family's house. Mun chases after her and then she feels kind of bad for him and turns back and says, "Hey look, sorry I've deceived you for so long. Why don't you come meet my parents, rest for the day and then you can leave for home tomorrow."
Amanda: Very nice of her.
Julia: And Mun agrees to that. So Jacheongbi tries-
Amanda: Julia, a suspicious amount of good communication happening in this story so far.
Julia: There was a lot of-
Amanda: I mean, okay-
Julia: There's like there's a central deception happening, yes, but you know you do admit your feelings and you do give good boundaries. And you don't like run away and then six months later the fanfic picks up because you've been seeing again with your ex, and then like Draco can't get over how much feelings he still has for Harry. And it's like, "No, Harry your mind and the kiss and the Atlantic's over."
Amanda: Are you okay?
Julia: I just have just have a lot of feelings.
Amanda: Okay. You sure? Do you want to express them a little bit, or are you okay?
Julia: No, no, I'm ready.
Amanda: Okay, good.
Julia: Jacheongbi tries to break the news to her parents lightly and is like, "Hey fam, so I brought home one of my fellow students with me. His feet hurt from traveling all day, is it cool if he stays here tonight and leaves tomorrow? She basically gets interrogated. Her dad is like, "Okay, is this a boy or a girl?" And she's like, "It's a boy." And he's like, "Is he younger than 15 or is he older than 15?"
Amanda: Oh no.
Julia: And she's like, "Why?" And he's like, "Well, if he's younger than 15, he can stay in your room. But if he's older than 15, then he has to stay in my room." And I was like, "Okay, that's like when you go to your grandparents' house, they make you sleep in separate beds even though you're married already, grandma."
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So she tells him that Mun is younger than 15, which I'm pretty sure is a lie. It didn't specify whether or not it was, but I'm pretty sure that's the case.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: And the father agrees to let him stay in her room. She then hides him behind a folding screen during dinner and manages to keep him hidden for most of the night so that the parents don't know that he's older than 15.
Amanda: We love a folding screen device.
Julia: So good.
Amanda: So good. Much better than the Eris in Shakespeare, and reminds me a lot of [inaudible 00:16:29].
Julia: Yeah, good point. Thank you. All right, so she spends the evening after everyone goes to bed weaving, like super late into the night because that's her like specialty. That's a thing that she enjoys doing.
Amanda: Cute.
Julia: She weaves so late into the night that Mun comes to check on her, and she's worried that her parents are going to see him. So she escorts him back to her room and they spend the night together 'revealing their love that had been concealed for three years.'
Amanda: Oh shit, isn't that so cute.
Julia: It's so cute. And then the story that I was reading was like, "How much time passed? Who knew the birds were crying out for morning?" I was like, "Oh, my God, I can't, it's so cute." Also like, I got it, that's a feeling.
Amanda: Oh yeah, no, it's very, very sweet.
Julia: So in the morning, Mun returns to the garden of heaven and tells her that he will try to return soon. But the emperor of heaven did not want Mun returning, and so he tells him he must spend at least half the year in the garden of heaven, and he's unable to tell Jacheongbi about this. So this is where Ashley points out, this is very like Persephone and Hitis moment, which I really appreciate. You know me, I'm a sucker for Persephone, she's my girl.
Amanda: I know, it's episode one for a reason.
Julia: Yeah. The story does go a little bit off the rails after this, kind of into like a Psyche Arrow situation too. But before we get to that, let us grab a refill of those buckwheat whiskey sours.
Amanda: I could drink these all day.
Julia: Awesome.
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Amanda: Thanks.
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Amanda: Thanks Care/of.
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Amanda: Absolutely. I generally order my DoorDash when I am at work much later than I intended, and I packed my lunch, but did not plan on staying as late as I am for dinner. So it's really great that DoorDash can let us connect to those brand names where like I would love to run to Chipotle, but it is so far away that I could not do it and still make my like 7:00 PM call. Or all of the other local restaurants that we love to patron here in Greenpoint, Brooklyn where multitude is.
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Amanda: One more time for the folks in the back, and that's a promo code, Spirits, for $5 off your first order from DoorDash. Thanks, DoorDash. And now, let's get back to the show.
Julia: Okay. Getting back into things. So there is this whole interlude where a servant who is being lazy claims that he has seen Mun in the garden of heaven. Jacheongbi decides that she's going to go to the garden of heaven to get him back because they're like, they promised to like marry each other and stuff like that.
Amanda: Yeah, I'd be worried too.
Julia: Yeah. Ashley actually points out that she disguises herself as a man again, because you know, she's super lexi aesthetic at this point, I imagine. And then she takes that servant on the journey with her, and there's ghosts and wizards and stuff. The problem is, the servant has the hots for her, and unfortunately tries to rape her in the story, which... Yeah, no. And then she kills him.
Amanda: Okay. That seems like a fairly appropriate retaliation.
Julia: Yes, correct, because she hasn't fucked around.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So her parents are pissed about that, that she killed one of their servants, to be like, "Hey, sorry about that. Sorry, I don't want you to lose a servant." She raises him from the dead, which is equally badass.
Amanda: How?
Julia: Learned a lot of cool things at master Gomu's.
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: That is movie exposition training, montage levels of like super powers.
Julia: Yes. And then, that just makes her parents more upset-
Amanda: Yeah, not the best.
Julia: ... because you're raising people from the dead.
Amanda: No, not the best. But, if you're in a situation where you're training with people with powers, and this is very normal, I get how your sense of what might or might not like upset civilians could get a little twisted.
Julia: Yeah. So anyway, they're extremely upset. They ended up disowning her and kicking her out of their house.
Amanda: Oh, beans.
Julia: So she's kicked out, she is adopted by a woman named lady Jumu, who she meets on the countryside and is a weaver as well, like I said Jacheongbi loves to weave. So Jacheongbi actually impresses her with her skills in weaving and lady Jumu asks her to assist on a project that she's weaving silk for, and it's for a wedding. Which lady Jumu then reveals is for Mun's wedding.
Amanda: No, I knew it. Ugh, fuck.
Julia: So when lady Jumu brings the silk to be inspected by Mun before the wedding. She reveals that it was Jacheongbi's weaving and Mun insists on seeing her.
Amanda: Aww. Good, I mean, I don't want him to be at the altar and look at the thing and be like, "Oh fuck, I know that weaving."
Julia: So, Mun comes to lady Jumu's house the next day, but Jacheongbi isn't happy to see him, because I guess he was gone for so long and never told her what the deal was.
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So, she pricks his finger through the door and then Mun leaves because his blood has now made the house unclean. And he's also like, "Oh, I'm in the mortal world and everything's dirty, I'm going back to the garden of heaven."
Amanda: So why did she prick his finger, just because she was pissed?
Julia: Yeah. Oh, fair. Lady Jumu is also frustrated by Jacheongbi's behavior, and kicks her out of the house as well. She's just like running through houses.
Amanda: "I helped you out, I adopted you, I brought you into my project or this is the thanks I get?"
Julia: Yeah. The problem is Jacheongbi is remorseful for her actions and so she becomes a Bhikkhini, which is a woman monk basically. So she does that in the hopes that she'll be forgiven for her sins and she'll be able to join up again with Mun.
Amanda: I think that's a overkill. I think that she did most logically what was available to her in a given situation.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: I understand how she got a lot out of this training and would want to dedicate herself to it as a way to recenter herself and like repent and things. But, girl, you're okay.
Julia: It's very like get the to a nunnery in Shakespeare.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah, a bit.
Julia: A little bit. So she's living that life, shaved your head, it's all good. As a monk, she meets some of the maid servants of the King of heaven who are crying. She just like stumbles across them as she's traveling.
Amanda: Oh, no.
Julia: When she asks them why they're crying, they tell her that they're looking for the stream in which Mun had bathed with Jacheongbi way back when, because he wanted to drink from it. But they're unable to find it. And Jacheongbi is like, "Hey, yo, that's me, I can get that water for you if you want. But, the problem is I want you to take me back to the garden of heaven with you." And they're like, "Yes, of course, whatever you want. You seem great."
Amanda: Anything...
Julia: I mean, I'm sure you have been given things at work, tasks that were as vague as that is and you're just like, "God damn it! Give me a assigned here, give me any kind of help."
Amanda: Yeah.
Julia: So she gets the water for them, they take her back up to the garden of heaven.
Amanda: Cool.
Julia: So they bring her back up with them and they leave her at Mun's house up in the garden of heaven. She waits around because he's not home. She's exploring and she's singing to herself, and then Mun discovers her there. So, much like she had hidden him in her home, Mun hides her away in his room behind a folding screen again. And they reconnect and catch up with each other's lives.
Amanda: What a sweetly structured story.
Julia: Yes. No, it's very cute, got all of the beats.
Amanda: All the beats, and I see too, if this was ever performed or read out, or recounted to each other via voice, how having that circular motif come back again is even more impactful I think when it's spoken out loud than when it's read. I'm getting a little like little goosebumps here.
Julia: Yeah. Oh God, I love it. And we'll talk a little bit more about the tradition of telling this story when we get to the most book wild part of the story.
Amanda: Oh, not even [crosstalk 00:27:25].
Julia: [crosstalk 00:27:25] at the book wild part.
Amanda: "Julia, I got my flu shot today, my system is compromised. Oh boy. Oh boy."
Julia: Okay. So they're catching up, just telling each other how much they love them. The two of them decided to get married in secret, but when Mun reveals to his parents that he's not going to be marrying his betrothed, his father calls for a 50 foot deep pit to be dug. Then filled with burning charcoal and then swords with a sharp blade to be hung over the pit.
Amanda: Oh.
Julia: So, here's where the version of the story that I read, and Ashley's version that she sent us differ slightly. So in Ashley's story, the brides are forced to compete. They're forced into this competition where they're forced to walk across this bridge of swords over the pit of fire. So this is the quote from Ashley, she goes, "Imagine a bridge made out of knives that are all arranged, so that the handles are touching the ground and the blades are pointed up, and these two women have to walk across that fine blade edge."
Ashley continues, "What I find personally really interesting about this is when I was growing up, my mother would tell me stories of Korean shamans called mudang." I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. Because she grew up in a village where it was still an intersection of Shamanism, Confucianism and Christianity. And one of the things that the mudang were renowned for was a knife dancing ritual. Basically everyone would gather in the village square and the mudang would perform this important ritual, and they would have these knives positioned on the ground just like the Jacheongbi move. Play music and dance on top of the knife blades barefoot.
Amanda: Wow.
Julia: And afterwards show the bottoms of their feet to the crowd so everyone can see that they weren't bleeding or cut.
Amanda: That's awesome.
Julia: I'm not sure if the mudang adopted this knife dancing ritual because of Jacheongbi, or an honor of her, but I thought the parallel was really interesting.
Amanda: Yeah, like in minimum, this is the thing that's present in culture or history such that shows up in both places.
Julia: Yeah. Anyway, because Jacheongbi is a badass, she completes the challenge while the other bride refuses and instead starves herself to death, which is not great. But is meant, I think to show the very strong sense of will Jacheongbi has, which is her most defining characteristic.
Amanda: Wow. That's a really astute analysis and it's bad ass idea, and it's like MTVs the challenge meets the bachelorette, which I really enjoy.
Julia: I like the convo quite a bit. Yes, thank you.
Amanda: I'm saying the bachelorette and not the bachelor, because they're not really competing for the affection of the man. It's like as if the bachelorette casting people decided like, "Okay, well we like these two-"
Julia: One of you can be the bachelorette, but-
Amanda: ... episode zero is whoever's feet are more functional at the end of this ritual gets to be the bachelorette.
Julia: Yeah. So thank you Ashley for that analysis, it's really, really great. So in the version of the story that I read, it's just Jacheongbi. So she manages to do the thing, but she cuts her foot as-
Amanda: I mean, it's knives.
Julia: ... she's crossing the thing. So she wipes the cut on her under skirt dirtying it, which apparently according to this version of the story is why people get their period once a month. Which, you know what, if this is the reason why people get their period once a month instead of like some of the weird shamy-
Amanda: You're unclean.
Julia: ... versions of other religions.
Amanda: It's like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I just walked across a bridge of knives." "Okay."
Julia: Yes. That's way better version in my opinion. Like, no, but also, yeah. Anyway, that's fucking wild. But the parents welcome her into their family. Mun is sent to tell the other woman that she's no longer going to be married to him, and she lays down and turns into a bird after a hundred days.
Amanda: Okay. I'm sorry, I'm just also stuck on the idea that people who menstrate are just walking across bridges of knives each month. And I love the idea that it's cyclical. It's just very good.
Julia: Extremely good energy into it.
Amanda: I mean, I do feel that roughly once a month I have completed, just by like living in the year of our Lord 2019. That I have walked across a bridge of knives. So, I'll take it.
Julia: I'd agree. Okay, so-
Amanda: Anyway, let's return to the bird thing.
Julia: Yes. So she turns into a bird-
Amanda: Just in grief?
Julia: Yeah. And then the bird transforms into four birds, which become four things that if they get between a couple, it forces them to break up.
Amanda: Okay. I see it, this is also a very strange twist on bird husband.
Julia: One of them is completing and the other one is having bad breath, which is odd.
Amanda: I mean, good breath, good marriage, that's something.
Julia: Sure. Okay, that's fair. There's like two other ones, but I was like, "No, I don't like this," these were the ones that stood out to me. So there is still another version of the story where the bride to be becomes a hungry ghost, which we've talked about his past stories as well. And later why wedding traditions say that you have to give an offering in memory of her in order to bless the union.
Amanda: Cool.
Julia: So it's like, "Hey, sorry, it didn't work out for your thing. Just leave it for the other bride. Leaves up the nice for the other brides, so she's not super pissed and you guys can enjoy yourselves."
Amanda: It makes sense.
Julia: "And the weird birds don't come between your marriage." So the couple finally gets married and they're happy. This is-
Amanda: She and birds?
Julia: No, no, Jacheongbi and Mun get married.
Amanda: Oh, the sad bride.
Julia: The bride.
Amanda: Oh, okay. I was like, that's a very sad ending for Jacheongbi.
Julia: No, no, sad bride turns into birds.
Amanda: I see.
Julia: Jacheongbi and Mun, super happy.
Amanda: Okay, good.
Julia: So the father, the emperor of heaven, gives her as a wedding gift, five important grains that she can take back to the mortal realm.
Amanda: Oh damn.
Julia: So it's barley, rice, beans, millet, and foxtail millet.
Amanda: You know what, frankly, I'd be extremely happy with grains as a wedding present.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: Evans [Remstram 00:32:55], I'm sorry, I did not give you grains, it wasn't on your registry, but I should have just thought ahead. Maybe for your anniversary present.
Julia: Perhaps.
Amanda: Love you bud.
Julia: Yes. We'll just send him like some nice heirloom beans perhaps.
Amanda: Yeah. Yes, they have back with beans, and I think Julian would like them too.
Julia: Yeah, Ashley points out that these are fundamental crops in Korean agriculture and cuisine. Like these are the basis for most of their cuisine.
Amanda: And I like the idea that, rather than treating humankind as a nuisance or as like an underclass, the idea here from the emperor of heaven is like, "I want my son to understand this. I want him to train with a person in the moral realm who's really great. And even though I might not have chosen that my son marry a mortal... " I don't know what his feelings were, he does want to give back and make their life easier. And give them something that isn't, you know, a crystal dish you use once every five years. But it's something that gives back to where she came from.
Julia: I love that that's what you're catching up on. So, Jacheongbi is doing great, but she asks the emperor of heaven for one more grain that can grow in harsh conditions because life is rough in the mortal realm, and she wanted something that would be able to survive no matter what.
Amanda: Sure.
Julia: So he finally gives her buckwheat, which becomes extremely important in terms of crops and cooking. Ashley also adds, 'this kind of compassion, the humility and the instinct to serve others before yourself is a highly valued and taught personality trait in Korean culture. And so many Korean myths feature this kind of humility with the heroes being rewarded for displaying it, and people are punished for being self-serving.'
Amanda: Amazing.
Julia: I love that. So she asks for one more gift, but it's to help the rest of humanity and not just herself.
Amanda: Beautiful.
Julia: So because of this story, Mun and Jacheongbi become the god and goddess of agriculture, as well as the goddess of earth farming and love.
Amanda: Aww.
Julia: I actually have an aww in my notes. Thank you. So Amanda, I want to hear your thoughts on this story. What really stood out to you? What were the most impactful parts of the story for you?
Amanda: Yeah, I am so glad that Ashley kind of touched upon that idea of looking out for something bigger than yourself. And it sounds like Jacheongbi was very connected to her community and her obligations even as she was seeking something better for herself. So, you know, she wanted to go and study and learn and see the world, but she also realized that she had some filial duty and so she kind of pointed that out to her dad. And is aware of all those contexts. It feels like so often in stories were asked to choose between fulfilling yourself and growing, and serving community.
In a lot of the stories that like I grew up with, and stories that were presented with in the media now, it's sort of like, either you can stick to where you came from or you can grow. And for almost everyone's life, that is very much not a real choice. Like these things are enmeshed, and by going for one thing, you might have to give something up. Or you can find new ways of learning, growing, doing things that you want to do, but also taking of your obligations and what you have to take.
It's not a bad thing at all to take others, it doesn't stop you from growing. So in her case, I love that she returned to the family. I love that she is asking for, grains on behalf of humanity. That she wasn't pissed when she saw these maids, but saw it as an opportunity. She's really into helping others and if it's a benefit for herself, that's great as well. So I love that she's not completely self-serving, but she's also not completely selfless, because that sucks, and that often gets women killed with [inaudible 00:36:32].
Julia: Yeah. No, I think that brings up a really good point because she's a kind of character that has a lot of balance in that she is the kind of character that is going to take the bull by the horns. So she is the one who stumbles across Mun and is like, "I am going to go to school and I'm going to learn things. You are my ticket. Even though women in this time and place don't typically get to study." And when Mun is up in the garden of heaven, she says, "Okay, well I'm going to figure out what the situation is. I am going to find a way up there."
And even though she doesn't succeed, and like there's a lot of things standing in front of her, all she does is she's like, "I'm taking this servant and I am going, and I'm going to get the job done." And it's not ever for like self-serving purposes. It's always about how can I become a better person, but also how can I make the lives of people around me better.
Amanda: Yeah, and self-improvement is a selfless act sometimes. You know, working on yourself, it's that whole like oxygen mask theory, right. In that you sometimes have to put on your own oxygen mask and you do on planes. Actually, if you're ever in that situation, put it on yourself before assisting others because if you pass out, you're not helpful to anybody around you.
Julia: That's true.
Amanda: So that's not to say that like your contribution to other people, it's the only way to measure worth. But I think that for some people it's hard for us to justify doing anything for ourself if we can't find like a direct benefit for other people. And that's something that I have certainly tried to work through in therapy and in my life. And seeing someone who so clearly seems an effortlessly, it's like balancing those two obligations is amazing. She improved the lives of all of humanity in the journey of pursuing something that she knew was right for her, even though it's like defied convention at every single turn. From going to this training Academy dressed as a boy. To marrying someone who is a celestial, to finding a wedding present that is not just something she can use, but something that everybody else can.
Julia: Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I think one of the parts of this story that really stand out to me, as you said before. When we look at a lot of mythology, strong-willed women tend to get punished for being strong willed.
Amanda: Yeah, or he gets engaged to somebody else and then she dies.
Julia: Yeah.
Amanda: And like that's not what happened.
Julia: No.
Amanda: She was like, "I'm going to become a scholar," that's a great reaction to someone you love marring somebody else, fuck yeah. Yeah, she's strong willed and she's able to like do the things that need to get done, but she doesn't suffer for it. And even though she goes through all of these trials and tribulations, she gets the guy at the end. She gets the life that she wanted and also brings about happiness for other people and like sustainability, and like plenty fullness for other people. It's just so rare to see that mythology. And it made me so happy to actually see the end of this story be happy. And it wasn't one of those things where a woman suffers and then because she suffered, she gets made into a god in death or whatever.
Julia: Yeah. Like martyrdom, I get it. But also there should be other choices and this is a really good example. Also love all the fan fake tropes. I'm here for it, and I love that humanity, it's like, this is a compelling thing to happen in a story, even now. This is the reason why I think it stood out to me in particular as a really, really beautiful parallel to the Psyche and Arrow story, because for one, the psyche almost stabbing Arrows and burning him with the candle wax is basically her pricking the thumb of Martyrdom.
Then she has to go through all of these trials and tribulations in order to get him back. Even though this time there's no vengeful mother trying to be like, "Prove to me that you're worthy of my son as your husband," but instead she's just so strong willed and so passionate, and so forceful, and isn't punished for it at all. And it's really, really, really nice.
Amanda: Yeah, it's amazing. Oh gosh, there's so many things to love, and like a lot of just good communication in this story. I know that you balked a little bit earlier because there was the whole fundamental deception, but it was necessary. She talked about it, she owned up to it. It was extremely sweet and I wanted to float my love a leaf down a river with a question on it. It's extremely adorable and I don't know, I just, I feel like we don't get a lot of good examples if you don't grow up seeing them of like communication, forgiveness. Evolving among romantic partners, and if you don't see that, there's not a ton of examples of like the quotidian realities of like communication in partnership in daily life. So you sort of have to figure it out for yourself.
But I love that it's here. I love that one of the takeaways can be, be honest with your partner. You guys are going to change over time, maybe there's times when you feel more distant or more together, and at the end of the day as long as you can be honest with one another and always feel comfortable bringing up a question, then you're going to figure out the right answer for you.
Julia: Yeah, that's a great point. All of their greatest moments of happiness are just when they have a moment to talk to each other and you know, chat the night away and tell each other how much they love each other.
Amanda: Adorable.
Julia: And that is very sweet and something that I think we can all apply better to our lives and our relationships. And even if they aren't romantic relationships, friendships too.
Amanda: Absolutely. And like she got a buzz cut.
Julia: She got a buzz cut.
Amanda: God damn.
Julia: She still look good.
Amanda: Amazing.
Julia: She pulled that Natalie Portman look off.
Amanda: I know, gosh. Well, for anybody who grew up with this myth and has particular versions or personal anecdotes that you want to share, we would love to hear them. Thank you, Ashley, for sending this in. Oh my goodness.
Julia: Yes, Ashley, you are wonderful. I really appreciate all the work and analysis you put into your email. It meant a lot to me.
Amanda: And listeners remember, stay creepy. Stay cool.