Episode 420: Hot Frosty
/We return with Myth Movie Night to explore a wild, very silly Netflix Christmas movie: Hot Frosty. We discuss dick scarf physics, bad business practices, Mean Girls references, and the horniest ice sculptor in the world.
Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about or mentions of drug use, global warming, illness (cancer), death, sexual content, and imprisonment.
Housekeeping
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Cast & Crew
- Co-Hosts: Julia Schifini and Amanda McLoughlin
- Editor: Bren Frederick
- Music: Brandon Grugle, based on "Danger Storm" by Kevin MacLeod
- Artwork: Allyson Wakeman
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Spirits is a boozy podcast about mythology, legends, and folklore. Every episode, co-hosts Julia and Amanda mix a drink and discuss a new story or character from a wide range of places, eras, and cultures. Learn brand-new stories and enjoy retellings of your favorite myths, served over ice every week, on Spirits.
Transcript
[theme]
AMANDA: Welcome to Spirits Podcast, a boozy dive into mythology, legends and folklore. Every week, we pour a drink and learn about a new story from around the world. I'm Amanda.
JULIA: And I'm Julia. And Amanda, I want you to come on a journey with me into our mind palace.
AMANDA: Always, Julia.
JULIA: I want you to picture yourself in the Welsh countryside.
AMANDA: Okay. I've ridden through it on the train from London to Cardiff. It was beautiful.
JULIA: It's winter. It's cold out there, but inside your home, there's a warm, crackling fire that you are sitting beside. I know you no longer celebrate, Amanda, but picture, it's Christmas time, so you got your boughs of holly and pine, you got your Christmas tree in the corner. You're all cozied up, maybe wrapped in a nice blanket. You have a cup of tea, maybe you're reading a nice book by the candle light.
AMANDA: Now, I bet nothing bad is going to happen, because I am so comfortable.
JULIA: As the sun begins to set, you hear a knock at your door. You grumble, and you get out of your nice, cozy blanket, and you go to the door. Maybe it's snowing outside a little bit, but that's not the first thing that is apparent to you when you open the door.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: Now, the first thing that comes to your mind is the inhuman figure standing in your doorway. It is tall, taller than you are, draped in white linen robes that have probably seen better days, and its face, its head is a horse's skull.
AMANDA: Why would you do that to me, Julia? Why would you jump scare me like this?
JULIA: From within the sockets that once held its eyes, glass baubles catch the light of the fire within your home—
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: —and flash as if alive.
AMANDA: That's worse than no eyes.
JULIA: Red ribbons are tied to its body and skull streaming in the winter wind as though hair or something far more grotesque.
AMANDA: Why would you remind me of intestines?
JULIA: You stand there for a moment, staring at this beast, and then you notice the group behind it propping it up, and that, that, Amanda, is when the music starts.
AMANDA: No.
JULIA: The group begins to play a jaunty tune, bobbing the grim horse-headed figure in time with the melody, and you start clapping and joining in.
AMANDA: I don't, I don't. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I don't.
JULIA: And this is where the true battle of wits begins, Amanda. The horse-skulled figure and its compatriots sing a tune, requesting entry into your home.
AMANDA: Uh-uh.
JULIA: And you sing back your own rhyming verse denying them entry, and back and forth it goes until one side eventually fails this epic Welsh rap battle, and either the horse and its crew are sent packing, or you yield and allow them into your home with the promise of food and drink.
AMANDA: And then they eat my soul and I don't make it to another Christmas?
JULIA: No, no, Amanda. It's just nice.
AMANDA: This is just a nice, fun ritual?
JULIA: That, Amanda, is the Welsh Wassailing tradition of the Mari Lwyd.
AMANDA: Oh, baby. I'm about to learn a lot about this, I bet.
JULIA: Yes. So the Mari Lwyd, which I've heard a lot of pronunciations while researching this episode, this seems like it is the Welsh pronunciation I saw the most, so that's what I'm going with. The Mari Lwyd is actually not the name of the terrifying creature that I just described to you, Amanda, but rather the tradition of bringing this horse skull around the neighborhood in what is traditionally described as wassailing.
AMANDA: And so I've heard this word used as a sort of synonym for caroling. Am I in the right neighborhood?
JULIA: You kind of are. So I'm going to give you a little background on wassailing. So wassailing is specifically a practice that is done around Christmas and New Year's celebrations, where people go from door to door, singing and offering up drinks from the communal wassail bowl in exchange for food and gifts or drinks.
AMANDA: Now—
JULIA: Like other drinks besides what you're drinking from the wassail bowl.
AMANDA: —is this like a communal extremely pungent punch?
JULIA: Yes, it is. So, Amanda, probably our best modern example of wassailing tradition is the song We Wish You a Merry Christmas.
AMANDA: Ah.
JULIA: Which you know the whole thing about like, "Oh, bring us some figgy pudding, and we won't go until we get some." And we're like, "Wow, that's kind of aggressive, actually, for a song."
AMANDA: Oh.
JULIA: That is kind of the whole vibe of wassailing, but when you're kind of expecting it, it's almost like a Christmas trick or treating.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Yeah.
AMANDA: Okay. Cute. Sure. I've also, now that you've mentioned it, seen recipes for wassail, so that makes a lot more sense to me now.
JULIA: Yes. And so, like, you kind of pointed out, carolers are kind of an evolution from the tradition of wassail. There's also not just the, "Hey, we're gonna come sing at your door, and then you're gonna give us treats" version of wassailing, but there's another fun version of wassailing, which is definitely not as common in the US at least, where you would go wassailing in orchards, specifically orchards that were used for the growing of apples for cider.
AMANDA: Cool.
JULIA: Where the wassailers will sing to the trees or recite incantations in order to promote a good harvest for the following year.
AMANDA: Now, that seems like a great time. Sign me up for that.
JULIA: Yes. And you're like, "Okay. So we all get to, like, dress up in cute, comfy clothes, and we all get to go out to the orchard, and we all get to drink from this bowl, and then hopefully we get a good harvest next year."
AMANDA: Like getting pretty drunk and serenading a tree describes a fair number of my weekends.
JULIA: Yes. I personally think this version is very cute, as cute as the, like, kind of caroling wassailing is. The idea of like singing to trees is adorable to me. I love a traditional, like, tree harvest magic tradition.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: And this also somewhat ties to the fact that wassail comes from an Old Norse word that means to be in good health or to be fortunate. And wassail as a noun refers to the drink that one would drink as part of that toast.
AMANDA: Great. A thing that I definitely have on my mind around the holidays, the end of the year, at the start of a new one.
JULIA: Exactly, yeah. It's like— it's kind of like your New Year's resolutions, except it's just like, everyone be in good health.
AMANDA: Great. Like, yes.
JULIA: So originally, wassail, the noun describing the drink, was a hot spiced mead, but for a long time, a wassail was either a spiced ale. But nowadays, it could be any sort of hot mold cider, wine or ale that's flavored with sugar, cinnamon, nutmeg, and usually ginger and apples and oranges.
AMANDA: The usual suspects.
JULIA: Yeah, exactly. Sometimes slices of toast are added to sop up the wassail and then be eaten. It's like literally called a sop, which I didn't know was a thing.
AMANDA: Hmm. I just know the verb to sop up, but dang.
JULIA: But now, there's a noun, too. That's— a sop is a piece of bread or other thing that you add to a drink that you eat once it is soaked with the beverage.
AMANDA: We have spent many a happy hour, Julia, at a bar begging for a sop, any sop, any—
JULIA: Any sop.
AMANDA: —French fries, including the overly—
JULIA: Please, you have—
AMANDA: —truffled fries that Jekyll and Hyde club may, rest in peace, brought to us. So I'm fully taking this word on.
JULIA: You know what? I am truly in love with the new, like, girly pop thing of like, "We should just get martinis and Caesar salads and fries." I'm like, "Yeah, that's my dream meal. What are you talking about?"
AMANDA: That's all I want. That's all I want.
JULIA: That's all I want in my life. But in this case and scenario, it's a little bit more seasonal, a little bit more festive, I suppose, than—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —martinis and Caesar salad and fries.
AMANDA: Which is an everyday evergreen, you know, like classic little black dress of meals.
JULIA: Yes. The girly pops love it. So I love this. I'm probably talking a lot about drinking right now, but also this is a Spirits Podcast episode, baby, so if we're not talking about drinking when we have the chance, what are we even doing here?
AMANDA: Word.
JULIA: So if we are talking about wassailing, we have to talk a little bit more about the wassail bowl. As the name suggests, the wassail bowl is simply what the wassail is served in.
AMANDA: Now, is it a special one that you save just for this, or is it sort of someone's biggest mixing bowl that you, like, conscript for the task?
JULIA: The former, not the latter. So typically, the wassail bowl was less of a bowl and more of a goblet. The average wassail bowl would be carved from wood. According to some of the wassailing carols that we still have and sing to this day, and what we have of wassail bowls that have survived since the 1800s, they're typically carved out of maple wood. There are some examples of more ornate ones, like silver ones and stuff like that. That's less common and more hoity-toity, upper class, and this is definitely more of a working class kind of tradition here. But there's also these ones that I got really excited about, which are puzzle wassail bowls.
AMANDA: Oh, my. Is it like a sobriety test that if you can't do the puzzle, you shouldn't be drinking more? Because that sounds really good.
JULIA: No, it's more of a prank. So they were wassail bowls that had spouts, many different spouts, and the trick was to attempt to drink out of one of the spouts without the other spouts spilling onto you.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. So the whole idea of wassailing, though, is that one gets to drink from the wassail bowl in exchange for some sort of gift, whether that gift is food, some sort of other beverage or, like, as we think of around the holiday time, like a real, like, gift. You know what I mean?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: More of a stocking stuffer, though. You're not giving someone like, you know, an iPad Pro, and then getting to drink from the wassail bowl.
AMANDA: More white elephant, less, you know, beloved gift for, you know, a partner.
JULIA: So basically, the whole tradition of wassailing is that it gives you a reason to celebrate the winter festivities with your neighbors.
AMANDA: I mean, that's great. You brought up trick or treating, and that makes all the sense in the world to me, because I was like, "What the hell?" You know, we, like, light the menorah. Put it in the window, like you can see it, but you don't come in.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: But that is a sweet tradition that I can see a community doing.
JULIA: There's also— you know, it's been a while since we've done this episode, but it does strongly remind me of Beavi and—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —a lot of winter traditions are around, like, "Hey, just as a reminder, your community is here, if you need something, if you need, like, a drink to help you in these dark times, like here we are. We're here to bring you a little joy and a little levity."
AMANDA: And good to check on your neighbors, too. So I think this is really smart.
JULIA: But before the wassailers and Mari Lwyd can actually enter and enjoy the festivities, as I described to you before, Amanda, with you properly freaking out about it.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Let's talk a little bit more about the crew of the Mari Lwyd and how they get inside.
AMANDA: I'm not forgetting about the horse head, and we are going to get to that skull at some point. But yes, let's start with the horse skulls posse.
JULIA: Yes. So while the Mari Lwyd is kind of our focus, and definitely the most Spirits-coded figure that we're going to be talking about in this episode, it is usually not alone. It's got a posse. You'll often find the Mari Lwyd accompanied by a leader of the group, usually someone who is more formally dressed than the others. And sometimes in the tradition of carolers as we know it, having a sort of classic Dickensian look, from what I can tell from videos and photos.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: There's usually the merry men or the merry man who is the one who is playing the music, which is important for the singing aspect that we'll talk a little bit more about in a moment.
AMANDA: Oh, I thought it was just the happiest one, the jolliest one.
JULIA: No, he's the merry man because he's bringing the merriment.
AMANDA: I see, I see.
JULIA: He's bringing the party. And then there's also the stock puppet characters of Punch and Judy.
AMANDA: Scariest shit in the world, Julia. Scariest shit in the world.
JULIA: So, Amanda, maybe you can speak a little bit more on this, but this is like a thing that I really only vaguely know through consuming English media. And I say that, and I wrote this down, and then I was watching the Santa Claus 2 last night, and they have Punch and Judy as, like, characters, like doing a puppet show in the background, but maybe you can speak a little to the prevalence of Punch and Judy.
AMANDA: Yeah. I also mostly know Punch and Judy from English folklore and also horror stories, which take, you know, figures like Punch and Judy, which were originally puppets—
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
AMANDA: —where the one Punch punched the one Judy, and it just ,like, went around as seemingly, like, England's answer to, like, lowbrow humor that wasn't a Nativity scene, maybe. But a— or one of those Christian-like, you know, plays that went around, and they're just creepy-ass puppets that I have read in more than one, like, horror short story, sort of, like, come to life as, like a spirit of, you know, malevolence. This is in the Rivers of London series—
JULIA: Terrifying.
AMANDA: —specifically by Ben Aaronavitch, which I love that series so much. I recommend it a bunch on the show. But there is a— I think in the very first novel, there is a, like, spirit of, like, pandemonium that's channeled through a Punch and Judy.
JULIA: That's terrifying. And does make some sense. So the Punch and duty, as you said, kind of a slapstick puppet show that's been around since at least the 1600's.
AMANDA: That's so long.
JULIA: It was usually some sort of street performance. Usually, it would be like a traveling troupe would do a Punch and Judy show and then move on to the next town, et cetera, et cetera. And as you point out, it is one of the few, like, not nativity or not church kind of related street performances that would happen out in England and Scotland and Wales. It's also really interesting because the characters kind of are inspired by commedia dell'arte and, like, the stock characters of that sort of thing like, "Ah, yes, you know, the begrudging servant and the rich asshole rich man," you know, that kind of thing.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: But they are also this comedy aspect that accompanies the Mari Lwyd mostly to entertain the children of any household that the group ends up visiting.
AMANDA: I mean, good in theory, terrifying in practice, and that's most of folklore.
JULIA: Yes. That is true. That is most of folklore. So when this whole troupe arrives at a household after singing and playing music all through town, when they finally arrive at your specific door, they do a little call and response thing. So the Mari Lwyd and its crew will demand entrance, then the occupants try to give excuses as to why they can't come in, and it goes back and forth until the people at the household can't come up with any more excuses, and the entire troupe is allowed to come on inside to drink and feast. But again, keep in mind, this is a tradition that is known and expected, like children coming to your house for trick or treating. So it's not like you would open up the door and be like, "What the fuck is this? Who are you guys? What's going on here? What's happening?"
AMANDA: I can 100% see myself looking forward to this if it is a thing I am used to and a thing I expect. Must be exciting to, like, get your home of your own, and then, like, host people for the first time as opposed to being at a parents' house. Like, I totally see it. But as usual, Julia, your wordsmithing was too strong, and the beginning of this episode will stick with me.
JULIA: In my mind, this is kind of, like, the folklore tradition of, "Baby, it's cold outside." Like it's meant to be coy. It's meant to be playful.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: It's not that people don't actually want to let the Mari Lwyd and their troupe into their home. It's like, "Oh, you know, this is the song and dance that we do before you guys come in and we have a nice little night."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Now, luckily, Amanda, we have some videos of traditional versions of this song.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: I have one that is from a BBC Wales program from 1966. Would you like to hear/see how it traditionally looked/sounded?
AMANDA: I never wanted anything more than to meet someone from Wales from the '60s.
JULIA: Hell yeah. All right, I'm about to send it to you.
AMANDA: We're looking like a horse bride.
JULIA: Uh-hmm.
[music]
AMANDA: This is more like a bridle of flowers. I don't see the scary red ribbons.
JULIA: Yeah. Sometimes they'll do flowers instead of scary red ribbons. I think, traditionally, you do scary red ribbons, but sometimes it's flowers.
AMANDA: Oh, I bet someone's grandpa was so excited to be on television.
JULIA: He probably was.
AMANDA: Welsh is a beautiful language, isn't it?
JULIA: It really is. I also have another more modern recording of the song as well as the translation for some of the verses. Would you like to see that one?
AMANDA: All right, I'm clicking.
[music]
JULIA: Welsh is so pretty sung, especially sung. It's— well, Welsh, as a language, is a really beautiful language, but when it is sung, hmm, beautiful.
AMANDA: Extremely melodic. And, yeah, that's awesome. It also does the thing that I was surprised to find going to synagogue for the first time, just lots of lines that repeat in a way nobody announced to me, so I would go onto the next one and I'm like, "Ah, no, we're saying this again." Now, I have the gist all down, but yeah.
JULIA: Yeah. So the song that we just listened to, here is the song translated from Welsh into English, which is, "Here we come, dear friends, to ask permissions to sing. If we don't have permission, let us know in song how we should go away tonight." And then an example of the response that is provided in the song is, "I have no dinner or money to spend to give you welcome tonight."
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: Which is like me turning down invitations to go drinking when I'm like, "We're running a little low on the budget this month."
AMANDA: Not tonight.
JULIA: Now, Amanda, now that we have those melodic tones in our head, as well as picturing a horse skull singing them to us—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —I want to tell you a little bit more about the traditions, what happens when Mari Lwyd comes to party and where this horse-headed Christmas horror comes from, but first, we're gonna have to grab our refill.
AMANDA: I need a big sip of the wassail bowl.
JULIA: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
[theme]
AMANDA: Hi, everybody. Amanda here. Welcome to the refill where I want to especially and especially welcome our newest patron, Lesley. Welcome, Lesley. Thank you to you and to our supporting producer-level patrons, Uhleeseeuh, Anne, Hannah, Jane, Lily, Matthew, Captain Jonathan MAL-uh-kye Cosmos, Scott, Wil and AE (Ah) for being supporting producer patrons and those legends, those legends who hold down the Patreon and who make sure we can keep making the show, Bex, Chibi Yokai, Michael, Morgan H., Sarah, and Bea Me Up Scotty. Now, today is December 18th, and I am wearing a white sweatshirt, so this is my recommendation to you. I was told growing up in the silly fashion lessons of the '90s that you're not allowed to wear white between Labor Day and Memorial Day. Screw that. I think you should be wearing unseasonal colors at all times of year. Wear a spring floral print in the winter, wear like a fuzzy sweater in the summer when you have to, like, be in air conditioning. I couldn't recommend it more. It makes me feel great, and I love that I have a white sweater with a tomato on it here in the depths of the year. Now, there's so much going on here at Multitude as usual, and I have got to recommend that you check out Pale Blue Pod. An astronomy podcast for people who are overwhelmed by the universe but want to be its friend, where, every single week, astrophysicist Dr. Moiya McTier and a new guest demystify space one topic at a time with open eyes and open arms and an attitude that like stuff out there might be overwhelming, but that doesn't mean it can't be cool. I promise, Pale Blue Pod will make you feel capable of understanding the universe and like you're a part of it, which I don't know, that's what I go to podcasts for and I think it's absolutely beautiful. So go to Pale Blue Pod now in your podcast app, or go to palebluepod.com to check out this beautiful show. Folks, we, at Spirits, have been rolling out some merch improvements. I don't know if you know, but we have a brand-new merch store at spiritspodcast.com/merch where we are making things on sale so we can clear out the shelf space and make cool new items. We have many that we are working on. Editor Bren came up with a fantastic idea, so we are going to be pursuing that. I had a couple of cool ideas. Basically, I'm making stuff I want to wear all the time and carry with me, and so I think you will, too. But in the meantime, the first of these cool, new stickers is the updated Spirits logo sticker, which you can get for a more affordable price than ever before at spiritspodcast.com/merch. And remember, if you live outside the US and before you were like, "Ah, shit, I don't know. It's expensive to ship internationally." Shipping is more affordable than ever. So go on ahead, check it out. Start making that list. If you gotta wait 'til the holidays are over, no problem, no stress. We got you. spiritspodcast.com/merch. 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[theme]
JULIA: Amanda. We are back, and if we're doing a episode on Mari Lwyd and wassailing, of course, our cocktail for today has to be a wassail. It has to be.
AMANDA: What are your— what is the base of the wassail you're making for us today?
JULIA: Okay. So for a non-alcoholic recipe, your base is going to be mostly apple cider. And also, since we are from the US, we're talking about non-alcoholic cider, which I think outside the US, is called cloudy apple juice. But you'll need to add a bunch of spices like cloves and cinnamon sticks and ginger and nutmeg and a little bit of light brown sugar. And of course, you can spike this in order to make an alcoholic version. I would say, like maybe some bourbon or a nice, spiced rum. But personally, I prefer if you're going to go for an alcoholic version of the wassail, a red wine based wassail.
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: I would say you'd want any sort of fruity red wine to be your base. I would say something juicy like a Pinot Noir or a Rioja if you can find it. And then you'll add kind of the similar spices. And it is also worth mentioning, I think, that a lot of the spices in the wassail have symbolic meaning as well. So, like, stuff like cloves and cinnamon and nutmeg, for example, are all supposed to bring prosperity and wealth in the coming year, which is why—
AMANDA: Oh, nice.
JULIA: —they're used for spices. They're also just very warming spices in general. Like, when you're drinking it, you're like, "Ah, yes, I'm feeling warmed from the inside." But also it's got symbolic purpose as well.
AMANDA: Julia, I visited a relative's house recently who had near their pumpkins for, like, leftover from Halloween, they were just still good, had, I think, either, like, a small gourd or an orange studded with clove, which I believe is a deterrent to squirrels and deer, so they don't come munching on the on the gourds.
JULIA: Correct. But I was also like, "This just feels spiritually powerful and like a thing that should be lying around."
JULIA: You're like, this is some witchy shit.
AMANDA: That's about right.
JULIA: And I kind of love it. As we take our sip of our wassail bowl and we get back to talking about Mari Lwyd, I just want to go back and forth, I'm going to be the Mari Lwyd. You're going to be Amanda from the beginning of this episode.
AMANDA: Oh, sure. Yeah.
JULIA: I just want, like, three good reasons why you can't let me in right now. So let's start with— I'll do the Welsh verse from before, which is—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —"Here we come, dear friends, to ask permissions to sing. If we don't have permission, let us know in song how we can go away tonight." You don't have to sing it, Amanda, but give me an excuse.
AMANDA: I'm very sorry, I wasn't expecting company and my house is not quite clean.
JULIA: All right. Not a good excuse. Give us more.
AMANDA: I need to go on a grocery run really bad and the only thing in my cabinet is tuna, so that's it.
JULIA: Tuna pairs great with this red wine wassail.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: Give us another excuse.
AMANDA: I'm allergic to horses.
JULIA: I have no hair on me. I'm coming in.
AMANDA: Shit.
JULIA: Those are good one, Amanda. I like that.
AMANDA: You know, just going with the first three to come to mind.
JULIA: First thought, best thought. Take a sip of the wassail bowl, Amanda. I promise this isn't the rigged one that's gonna make you spill all over you.
AMANDA: Thank you. You are saying wassail, but I am hearing waffle. And so now, I'm picturing like a dark chocolate dipped waffle bowl with some—
JULIA: Hmm.
AMANDA: —like mulled red wine in it, and TBH, sounds great.
JULIA: You know what? If it wasn't hot, the wassail—
AMANDA: Right.
JULIA: —you could use the chocolate as a layer to keep it—
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: —like insulated and not get the waffle soggy. That's not the worst idea.
AMANDA: Maybe it becomes a sop and if, like, a waffle bowl from a— an ice cream place, it's served in a paper bowl, then it melts through the chocolate, and then stops the sop. And then you eat a red wine soaked waffle bowl, which sounds incredible.
JULIA: I don't hate that. I don't hate that. That sounds really good.
AMANDA: Sounds great.
JULIA: Ooh. I made Jake a mocktail the other day because he was like, "Baby, I want a little mocktail." And so I did chai tea and a maple espresso black tea that we had. And he doesn't like a hot bevy, so I cooled everything down.
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: Pumpkin spice syrup that I added to my coffee.
AMANDA: Yep.
JULIA: A squeeze of orange juice, which I was like, "That is actually a great idea because, like, all of those—"
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "—kind of do match well with orange—"
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: "—and then a quarter of a teaspoon of vanilla extract."
AMANDA: Ooh.
JULIA: Give it a little shake, and then strain it, and put a little bit of cinnamon on top. And I was like, "Yeah, yeah."
AMANDA: Yum, yum. Good work.
JULIA: I do my best. I do my best work when I'm not thinking too hard.
AMANDA: Love it.
JULIA: Let's talk about the Mari Lwyd. The first recording of the Mari Lwyd tradition actually comes from 1800.
AMANDA: Later than I thought.
JULIA: However, the origins of the tradition are, of course, debated among academics and scholars.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: It's also worth mentioning that the tradition does predate 1800. This first written record is talking about how they consider it a immoral practice.
AMANDA: Oh, sure. As long it's not pagan, it's fine. Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Well, that's the thought, but we'll get into it a little bit more. But probably whoever was writing about it was just a bit of a party pooper and also doesn't like the idea of feasting and drinking.
AMANDA: I also, you know, know that there is a history of the English coming and kind of wiping out traditions in favor of the Anglican Church, so maybe there was some of that, too.
JULIA: Yeah, probably a lot of that. So there is a folklorist named Iorwerth Peate who led the charge in that the tradition was a pre-Christian folk tradition. However, there is very little historical evidence to back that claim up, other than just the assumption that, like, a lot of traditions in Wales, as well as in England, Ireland and Scotland, these come from these pre-Christian practices.
AMANDA: I mean, it's giving Maypole, which I know is like not a Christian tradition, even if it's lumped into sort of like Easter-ish celebrations.
JULIA: Yes.
AMANDA: So I get the thought, even though as a researcher, you can't just say in your paper, "It's giving Maypole," like I can here on a podcast.
JULIA: Yes. You can't be like, "I just think it has that vibe with no historical, like, background to it."
AMANDA: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. Horse skull, I like your vibe, and it's giving Maypole.
JULIA: Like I said, there's little to no evidence of the various hooded animal traditions, which we will talk about a little bit later.
AMANDA: Uh-oh.
JULIA: We— there's no evidence that these pre date the 16th or 17th centuries. So the earliest we think it could be is the 16th century.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: So chances are it's not as old as scholars like Peate claimed they are, but that doesn't take away any of its value, or honestly, like, coolness in my mind.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Folklorists also claimed that the name for Mari Lwyd is a reference to Mary, as in the mother of Jesus.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: But other folklorists believe that it refers to the Mari Lwyd's horse skull head coming from a term meaning grey mare.
AMANDA: Now, again, not a linguist, but I will say based on vibes alone, I see the skull of a horse with garments. I'm not thinking the Immaculate Conception and the Blessed Virgin Mary. I'm just not.
JULIA: No? Huh.
AMANDA: I am probably thinking, "Huh, that's a horse whose bones have gone grey from being bones and not a horse anymore."
JULIA: Also keep in mind, England and Wales have a lot of mythical horses and a lot of like—
AMANDA: They do.
JULIA: —goddesses that are tied to mythical horses. So Rhiannon, for example, was a Welsh heroine who was strongly associated with horses, portrayed as riding on a shining white horse. And in some of her myths, she is so strong that she carries travelers on her back and is said to have the strength of a horse.
AMANDA: Incredible. Even before you described her as having the strength of a horse, I would say one of the top, say, 15 hottest names, Rhiannon.
JULIA: It's a hot one. There's a reason Fleetwood Mac did a song about it.
AMANDA: It's a hot one.
JULIA: There's also the Gaulish goddess Epona, who was worshiped as the protector of horses and ponies, as well as being a fertility goddess. However, it is much more likely that, like, horses are just incredibly culturally important to these areas, rather than them—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —being inherently tied together. So while our historical reference to Mari Lwyd was condemning the practice in 1800, mainly because it was disapproved of by local clergy.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Of course. The practice gained a resurgence in the mid-1900s.
AMANDA: Oh, were they like, "World War II is over. Let's go caroling."?
JULIA: I— so this poem that kind of brought back the popularity of the Mari Lwyd was a poem written by Vernon Watkins. It was called The Ballad of the Mari Lwyd, and it was written in 1941.
AMANDA: Okay. A nice distraction from all of the war.
JULIA: Yes. And Amanda, here's a— the beginning of the poem, as a little poetry corner holiday gift to you, Amanda.
AMANDA: Thank you. A little treat.
JULIA: I would read you the whole thing, but it's quite long. But I'm gonna just read you the opening stanzas, the opening lines.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: "Mari Lwyd, Horse of Frost, Star-horse and White Horse of the sea, is carried to us. The Dead return. Those Exiles carry her, they who seem holy and have put on corruption, they who have seen corrupt and have put on holiness. They strain against the door. They strain towards the fire which fosters and warms the Living. The Living, who have cast them out from their own fear, from their own fear of themselves, into the outer loneliness of death, rejected them and cast them out forever. The Living cringe and warm themselves at the fire, shrinking from that loneliness, that singleness of heart. The Living are defended by the rich warmth of the flames which keeps that loneliness out. Terrified, they hear the Dead tapping at the panes, then they rise up, armed with the warmth of firelight, and the condition of scorn. It is New Year's Night. Midnight is burning like a taper. In an hour, in less than an hour, it will be blown out. It is the moment of consciousness. The living moment. The dead moment. Listen."
AMANDA: Oh, baby. I would want to get outside and run around with a horse skull too after reading that.
JULIA: So the whole poem is actually more of a performance. Like there's a narrator who reads this opening portion, and it has like stage direction, it has different characters. It's got the whole shebang.
AMANDA: Wow.
JULIA: And to me, personally, Amanda, like reading through this, I think this should be just as well-known or just as adapted as, say, like a Christmas carol.
AMANDA: Yeah. That sounds tight as hell.
JULIA: Yeah. It really feels like that tradition of telling spooky or ghost stories around Christmas time. You know, this, like, dark time of the year where we're like, "Yes, death is upon us, but also we still live. We still sit by the fire and tell these stories and protect ourselves from the darkness outside."
AMANDA: Julia, it also reminds me a lot of, I think, a play technically, that we read as like a vocal exercise in high school, Under Milk Wood by Dylan Thomas, who was also Welsh.
JULIA: Yeah. You know, it does kind of have that vibe. You're absolutely right.
AMANDA: Yeah. And that's from the early '50s, but like, those first couple of stanzas, like, really paint a picture in a very spooky and I think, like, complimentary way.
JULIA: It is festive in a very spooky way, which I—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —think is kind of the whole, like, Mari Lwyd's vibe, you know?
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: Like we're really kind of counterbalancing. There is a spooky, deaf head skull outside who's singing at you, and also, let's all party inside and enjoy the warmth of the fire.
AMANDA: That's kind of what the end of the year is, though, isn't it? Like that's what New Years are all about. And whenever you celebrate them in the year, it's the death of the old and the welcoming in of the new, and, you know, one thing perishing for the other to flourish. And so it makes a lot of sense to me that death and life would be close in this way.
JULIA: And that's something that I love about the Mari Lwyd. And as much as we're making a big deal of the Mari Lwyd, which admittedly having a hooded horse skull visit you around Christmas time, it's not unique in terms of hooded animal traditions across England and Wales.
AMANDA: Okay. Who else is there?
JULIA: There's several others, Amanda. So the old horse is a Northern English tradition where a hobby horse that was part of like mummers' plays—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —would, like, come out and, you know, do performances and stuff like that. Old Ball is also a hobby horse with a horse's skull from Northern England, specifically from Lancashire, but this tradition is most associated with Easter time rather than Christmas time.
AMANDA: Now, why do you have so many hobby horses lying around?
JULIA: Amanda, this is very interesting. The hobby horse is kind of this, like, thing that during the 1600s, maybe 1500s, like I mentioned before, like when we first started getting, like, references to the Mari Lwyd, or something similar to these hooded horse skulls. This was a very classic thing that was used by jesters to entertain the wealthy and royal.
AMANDA: Okay.
JULIA: And so these, like, adaptations of these hooded horse figures, or these hooded animal figures in kind of these now community working class plays—
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: —is a real like not— I don't want to call it like trickle down, economic sort of cultural thing, but rather—
AMANDA: It's a cultural echo, yeah.
JULIA: Yes, it was a cultural echo, which is, like, I think really, really interesting and really cool as it falls out of favor with the rich and powerful, it becomes adapted to the culture of the working class.
AMANDA: And very northern, then, in that way.
JULIA: Exactly. So we got Old Horse, we got Old Ball. How about Old Tup, also known as the Derby Ram, which is from Derbyshire and Yorkshire, which was a goat or sheep skull rather than a horse skull. And Old Tup showing up at your door expected, rather than like a gift or to come and party inside, they would like, "Money, please."
AMANDA: Nice.
JULIA: So they would, like, do their whole thing and they'd be like, "All right, pay us." And they would be like, "I have no money." They would be like, "All right, we're gonna do the whole play again." They're like, "All right." Finally, they were like, "Please leave." And they would pay them. And then the performers would mime the killing of the goat, and then would leave.
AMANDA: Okay. Great. You know, Julia, this is just a modern adaptation. Like, how on the Seder plate, we typically will have like, you know, a— just like a lamb bone and not like a fresh hunk of, like, actual lamb. It symbolizes the ritual sacrifice of before, while gesturing at it, like they do here with this pantomime.
JULIA: Yeah. My favorite part, too, is part of the Old Tup Troupe is always a character playing the butcher.
AMANDA: Oh, no.
JULIA: And he's the one that always kills Old Tup.
AMANDA: Carries like a cardboard knife.
JULIA: Kent has the Hoodening, which is performed around Christmas time as well, which features another terrifying hooded horse skull. And interestingly, Amanda, in researching this, Hoodening as a tradition, was thought to have been extinct by World War I, but through the efforts of folklorists preserving their tradition, it actually saw a revitalization in the mid-20th century, which started incorporating the Hoodening into modern folk traditions around Christmas time.
AMANDA: Right on. I know there's a lot of, like, yearning for the rural idol past, you know, as we had poets like Thomas and Auden and others, you know, kind of like reaching for what the, you know, the memory of like England or Wales was like before the wars.
JULIA: Yeah. And also this idea that a lot of those towns, unfortunately, like, either— were extremely diminished or completely wiped out because their entire, like, male population were killed during World War I.
AMANDA: Uh-hmm.
JULIA: It's kind of wild to think about that. But the fact that it was revitalized because it was preserved through folklorists and poets and stuff like that is extremely beautiful and extremely moving in my mind.
AMANDA: Also, Julia, do you know that Dylan Thomas just wrote Under Milk Wood then died? It was, like, the last thing he wrote and then it was—
JULIA: Sorry. Don't mean to laugh about that, but you're like— it was like— he— his pen did the final swish, and then he went, "Pfft."
AMANDA: I mean, that's what I'm getting because it was aired the next year, because he had written it. And they're like— and then they aired it on the radio.
JULIA: Oh, no.
AMANDA: Yeah.
JULIA: Oh, no.
AMANDA: Poor Dylan Thomas.
JULIA: I guess— listen, if you grew up with a hooded animal tradition around some sort of holiday season, I want to hear about it. Please write into us.
AMANDA: Yes, I would love that. spiritspodcast@gmail.
JULIA: And Amanda, just like, you know, at the end of the day, I think the Mari Lwyd, all of these hooded animal traditions, humanity has always been a little bit scared of the upcoming winter and having traditions around them, especially when they are lighthearted, but a little spooky, just like the Mari Lwyd. It just makes sense, right?
AMANDA: I think it's a really good thing to do, and also a really good excuse to check on your neighbors and to see how people are doing. And whether you bring them some cookies that you have baked, or, you know, a little sprig of evergreen, or just a note wishing them well. I think that's a lovely way to channel some of the, I think, tendencies toward hibernation that, at least, I feel during the darkest and coldest times.
JULIA: Yeah, it gives us a reason to celebrate. It gives us a reason to look around and bring together our community. And part of that is because together, we can manage to get through this coldest and darkest time of the year. And we, for a little while, can forget about our mortality. We can celebrate with our friends and family. We can raise our voices in song, you know? And of course, we get to have some drinks, which is always a plus.
AMANDA: I think it's great. And if you're a woodworker out there, let me challenge you, make a wassail goblet and see if you can put that to use during your next party.
JULIA: And definitely try to make the trick one with a bunch of different spouts.
AMANDA: Hilarious.
JULIA: Listeners, ConSpiriters, I hope that as you're getting ready for your holidays this season, whatever they may be, you find a little bit of sweetness, richness, and light in the darkest time of the year. Make sure to sing along with the Mari Lwyd while you're at it.
AMANDA: And worst-case scenario, you can always claim you have a plumbing emergency that tends to let people leave right away.
JULIA: Stay creepy while you do that.
AMANDA: Stay cool.
JULIA: Later, satyrs.
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